ARCHIVÉ -  Transcript/Transcription - Vancouver, B.C. / (C.-B.) - 17 October 2001

 

 

 

 

 

 

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

FOR THE CANADIAN RADIO‑TELEVISION AND

TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION

 

 

 

 

TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DU

CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION

ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES

 

 

 

 

 

SUBJECT / SUJET:

 

 

Multiple broadcasting and ownership applications & applications further to Public Notice 2001-32 "Call for applications for a broadcasting licence for an ethnic television programming undertaking to serve Vancouver, B.C.".

Demandes de radiodiffusion et de propriétés multiples ainsi que les demandes suite à l'avis public CRTC 2001-32 "Appel de demandes de licence de radiodiffusion visant l'exploitation d'une entreprise de programmation à caractère ethnique pour desservir Vancouver (C.-B.)".

 

 

 

 

HELD AT:                            TENUE À:

 

Renaissance Vancouver       Renaissance Vancouver

Hotel Harbourside                Hotel Harbourside

1133 West Hastings Street   1133 West Hastings Street

Harbourside Ballroom II & III  Harbourside Ballroom II & III

Vancouver, British Columbia Vancouver (Colombie-Britannique)

 

 

17 October, 2001                 le 17 octobre 2001

 

 

 

Volume 3

 

 

 

 

Transcripts

 

In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages

Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be

bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members

and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of

Contents.

 

However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded

verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in

either of the official languages, depending on the language

spoken by the participant at the public hearing.

 

 

 

 

Transcription

 

Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues

officielles, les procès‑verbaux pour le Conseil seront

bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des

membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience

publique ainsi que la table des matières.

 

Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu

textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée

et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues

officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le

participant à l'audience publique.

Canadian Radio‑television and

Telecommunications Commission

 

Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des

télécommunications canadiennes

 

 

Transcript / Transcription

 

 

Multiple broadcasting and ownership applications & applications further to Public Notice 2001-32 "Call for applications for a broadcasting licence for an ethnic television programming undertaking to serve Vancouver, B.C.".

Demandes de radiodiffusion et de propriétés multiples ainsi que les demandes suite à l'avis public CRTC 2001-32 "Appel de demandes de licence de radiodiffusion visant l'exploitation d'une entreprise de programmation à caractère ethnique pour desservir Vancouver (C.-B.)".

 

 

BEFORE / DEVANT:

 

Andrée Wylie                           Vice-Chair Broadcasting

/Vice-Président, Radio diffusion

Cindy Grauer                            Commissioner / Conseillère

Martha Wilson                          Commissioner / Conseillère

Joan Pennefather                      Commissioner / Conseillère

Andrew Cardozo                       Commissioner / Conseiller

 

 

ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS:

 

Martine Vallee                          Hearing Manager / Gérant de

                                               l'audience

Marguerite Vogel                      Secretary / secrétaire

Carolyn Pinsky                         Legal Counsel /

                                               conseillère juridique

 

 

 

HELD AT:                            TENUE À:

 

Renaissance Vancouver       Renaissance Vancouver

Hotel Harbourside                Hotel Harbourside

1133 West Hastings Street   1133 West Hastings Street

Harbourside Ballroom II & III  Harbourside Ballroom II & III

Vancouver, British Columbia Vancouver (Colombie-Britannique)

 

 

 

17 October, 2001                                le 17 octobre 2001

 

 

Volume 3

TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES

 

                                                                                            PARA NO.

 

PHASE III

 

 

INTERVENTION BY / INTERVENTION PAR

 

 

by RTV Productions Ltd /                                                                3191

par RTV Productions Ltd

 

by Pacific Rim Intercultural Action Society /                                      3300

par Pacific Rim Intercultural Action Society

 

by KCTV and Production Inc /                                                          3360

par KCTV and Production Inc

 

by Multivan Broadcast Corporation /                                                 3425

par Multivan Broadcast Corporation

 

by Voz Portuguesa / par Voz Portuguesa                                         3548

 

by Justice Wally Oppal /                                                                 3632

par Justice Wally Oppal

 

by Senator Mobina Jaffer /                                                               3704

par Senator Mobina Jaffer

 

by Honourable Gurmant Grewal /                                                      3741

par Honourable Gurmant Grewal

 

by Raghbir Singh Bains /                                                                 3781

par Raghbir Singh Bains

 

by Prem Vinning /                                                                           3825

par Prem Vinning

 

by May Brown / par May Brown                                                       3848

 

byPo-Ping Au Yeung / par Po-Ping Au Yeung                                   3867

 

by Raj Paul Dhillon / par Raj Paul Dhillon                                          3898

 

by Hanny Hassan / par Hanny Hassan                                             3919

 

by Leslyn Johnson / par Leslyn Johnson                                           3944

 

by Baldwin Wong / par Baldwin Wong                                              4039

 

by David Paperny / par David Paperny                                              4060

 

by Vera Radyo / par Vera Radyo                                                      4083

 

by Cindy Chan Piper / par Cindy Chan Piper                                     4099

 

by Juan Miguez / par Juan Miguez                                                   4150

 

by Sonny Wong / par Sonny Wong                                                  4184

 

by Sandra Wilking / par Sandra Wilking                                            4222

 

by Barbara Brink / par Barbara Brink                                                4243

 

by Milton Wong / par Milton Wong                                                   4266

 

by Dr. Peter Legge / par Peter Legge                                                4316

 

by David G. McLean / par David G. McLean                                      4353

 

by Dr. William Saywell /                                                                  4368

par Dr. William Saywell

 

by Dr. Saida Rasul / par Dr. Saida Rasul                                          4399

 

by Lucy Roschat / par Lucy Roschat                                                4419

 

by Anne Almgren / par Anne Almgren                                               4453

 

by Imtiaz Popat / par Imtiaz Popat                                                   4468

 

by Kevin Pavlovic / par Kevin Pavlovic                                               4487

 

by Marion Toft / par Marion Toft                                                        4534

 

by Alvaro Mendes / par Alvaro Mendes                                             4594

 

by Paul Wong / par Paul Wong                                                        4613

 

by Shirley Chan / par Shirley Chan                                                   4635

 

 

 

Vancouver, British Columbia / Vancouver, Colombie Britannique

--- Upon commencing on Wednesday, October 17, 2001 at 0838 / L'audience débute le mercredi, 17 octobre 2001 à 0838

 

3188    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good morning and welcome back to our hearing.  Madam Secretary.

 

3189    COMMISSION COUNSEL:  Madam Chairman, I'd just like to announce that MVBC has filed the multilingual language sales projections as requested yesterday, and it will just be part of the record as Exhibit 8.

 

3190    THE SECRETARY:  Our first intervener today is KCTV and Production Inc.  I'd like to invite Nathan Cho to come forward.  I'm not seeing any movement.  We will recall Mr. Cho at a later time.  Thank you. 

 

3191    Next, then, is RTV Productions Limited.  Would Richard Weichsler please step forward.

 

3192    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good morning. 

 

3193    MR. WEICHSLER:  Madam Chair, good morning, and members of the Commission.  Thank you very much for taking your time and hearing me on your empty stomachs.

 

3194    I'm Richard Weichsler.  I'm the producer of the German television show, TV Deutsch, which serves the German, Swiss and the Austrian communities.  I'm also publisher of Canada's only quarterly German-language magazine. 

 

3195    My involvement with journalism and multiculturalism started with Horst Koehler 18 years ago.  I began as a producer with CJVB Radio, which is a German show, six days live per week one-hour show for over 13 years.  Five of those years, prior to the sale of the station, Mr. Van Bruchem made me the speaker of the station on multicultural matters.

 

3196    In 1986, I created a German interview show on Rogers, which became a great success and from then on, 15 and a half years ago, I have continuously been the producer of TV Deutsch with Rogers, and now, Shaw.

 

3197    During these years, I have received a number of honours and awards from the Merit Cross of the Republic of Austria, to the Diploma of Honour of the Robert Stolz Society.

 

3198    Programs I have produced for TV Deutsch include full-length films about the north of British Columbia, the Mohave National Park in the Northwest Territories, and the Alaska Highway, the North Pacific Choir Festival at Queen Elizabeth Theatre, the North American Schuhplattler Festival at the Trade and Convention Centre, the story of Austrians in British Columbia, many one-hour long features about our communities and dozens of shorter features, interviews shot in Canada, Germany, Switzerland and Austria.

 

3199    Besides that, I produce every week a one-half hour local news show which includes also international segments, and I would be glad to tell you about the content of our next show.

 

3200    During this time, I have done approximately 1,600 interviews with local and international personalities, including German Chancellor Helmut Schmidt, and an Olympic Gold medallist skier, like Patrick Ortlieb.  In one three-hour telethon for the German Care Home, we raised over $40,000, in three hours, a large portion of the total of 120,000 which we have collected so far.

 

3201    Fifteen and a half years ago, the Rogers cable licence was contingent upon having a multicultural channel.  Rogers helped us independent producers by paying about $40 per hour, per week for our programs.  In addition, Rogers gave us access to camera equipment, studio and mobile time.

 

3202    The producers appealed to the Commission and won a relaxed sponsorship to help us raise more funding to increase the quality of our programming.  But Rogers swallowed the proceeds by first eliminating the payment completely that they made to us and then reducing and eliminating the use of equipment.  Finally, they eliminated the one-year business contracts to replace them with a three-month contract, which made it impossible to plan long-term programming or business commitments.

 

3203    At the same time, they continued to collect the portion of the rate increments they were granted by the Commission to cover the subsidies to the producers.  We haven't seen anything from that any more.

 

3204    In an unprecedented move, Rogers, without telling me, re-broadcast a satellite program from Deutsche Welle, with whom I have the contract with, and to show them to the viewers, they get the program for free and they show them to the viewers for a fee.

 

3205    In effect, Rogers dismembered the efforts of the multicultural producers before the station was taken over by Shaw to set themselves up for this network licence, and these are the conditions under which we are working today.

 

3206    Now, please allow me to point out the reason why I am absolutely opposed to the those applicants.

 

3207    Rogers, LMtv and Multivan have both canvassed the communities by misleading them, with the result that many of us independent producers wasted an enormous amount of time to explain the real situation to those people.  The most prevalent misconception is that there will be an additional multicultural channel which will be free.  Well, who would not subscribe to such an idea and an offer, except that it is not true.  The channel will have to be carried on cable to be seen and no one has told me I will not have to pay for the channel.  I would be the first one to applaud the free cable service, Madam Chair, and I'm sure many people in this room will too. 

 

3208    Once this licence is granted, there is no guarantee that Shaw Multicultural Channel will continue our program.  In fact, there is a very good chance it will not.  We will be out of business and our communities will have less, and not more multicultural programming. 

 

3209    Rogers says that they will bring more quality.  Well, what kind of quality?  Probably the same kind of quality that they have in Toronto and from Toronto.  Please permit me to remind the Commission that their flagship program in Toronto used to be Jerry Springer, which they advertised on every lamppost in Toronto.  So much for quality and dignity.

 

3210    If they are so interested in quality, why have they not approached any of the major multicultural independent producers who have won many awards for their programming and services to the community?

 

3211    The reality is that they have no interest in ethnic programming.  Their investment is primarily in the American programming.  It is only a means to use the ethnic communities to get network licence for American programming.  Once they get the licence, they will come to the Commission and show that ethnic programming does not make any money, which is true, especially local productions, because they will continue to put fewer resources into it, or they may use other proven techniques to downgrade this programming, scrambling the schedule, using producers who are not experienced, who they employ at a fraction of the cost that it would take them to hire experienced, professional producers.

 

3212    Similarly, Multivan points out that programs will be produced locally.  Well, well, don't they know that all of the 25 independent producers are locals?  Over the 22 years, they were all locals.  On top of that, the combined experience of us six producers who were here, yesterday and today, we represent more than 100 years of experience.

 

3213    There is nobody in the major community who has more contacts in and more knowledge about the different communities.  "Free" and "local" are buzzwords they use today to get their licence. 

 

3214    Once they get it, they control the game.  So they may sell it, change the format, or just plain not live up to their promises.  No one can then do anything about it. 

 

3215    I request the Commission to please consider what options you will have in that eventuality.  For example, CKVU was sold to CHUM, thus adding to the multiple ownership and media concentration on this market.  Does anyone care any more what is happening on the B.C. media market?

 

3216    If we look at the business aspects of these applications, both applicants are promising to lose money for several years.  Yesterday, I overheard somebody say it takes about 15 years for one of these applicants.  Is that a sound business plan?  With respect, I would like to propose that the real business plan is to sell the licence to the highest bidder once they have it, or use it as a lever to gain network status.

 

3217    We, the ethnic communities deserve the same protection from such conflicts of interest that you provide to the non-ethnic audiences.

 

3218    We, as independent producers, run our business too.  It is a stipulation in our contract with Shaw and before, Rogers, that our finances are beyond reproach.

 

3219    I respectfully submit to you, Madam Chair, and Commissioners, that there is another more viable option, one that will serve our communities best and that is to allow the opportunity to fulfil our intent to apply for a low power licence as soon as you complete your policy review. 

 

3220    This will provide 100 percent multicultural, multilingual programming for ethnic communities.  Isn't that better for our communities than the less than 45 percent purely multilingual programming proposed by the applicants?

 

3221    Currently, we, the independent producers are handicapped by various regulatory restrictions on our advertisements.  Please allow us the same access to advertising revenue that these applicants want to be granted until we apply for our low-power applications.  This will allow us to do even more and higher-quality programming. 

 

3222    I like to mention that neither the German Canadian Congress of British Columbia, nor the largest German club in Western Canada, the Vancouver Alpen Club, nor the Austria Vancouver Club, and nor the Canadian Benevolent Society have supported either of the applicants.  They are on my side and those are more than 10,000 people that you have right here who oppose that, as well.

 

3223    All of us independent producers have served our communities with diligence.  We are the strongest link to the communities, and this multicultural channel that we have is truly multicultural, and in its conception, a unique and wonderful Canadian idea, which you helped to create, which works.  It just takes a little bit of fixing, and we have the tools and we can do that.

 

3224    In closing, I would like to ask you why you are listening to an application which you have already rejected and this has been put to you now for the third time.  I do not understand it, but I'm sure you have a good answer to that.  I thank you very much for your patience, and I'm glad to answer any questions.

 

3225    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Weichsler.  We hear the applications we receive.

 

3226    MR. WEICHSLER:  Good.

 

3227    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Commissioner Grauer, please.

 

3228    COMMISSIONER GRAUER:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  Thank you.  I have a couple of questions with respect to your presentation today.  You say here that they, I assume being Rogers, and now Shaw, continue to collect the portion of the rate increment they were granted by the Commission to cover the subsidy to the producers?

 

3229    MR. WEICHSLER:  Yes.

 

3230    COMMISSIONER GRAUER:  I wonder if you could just elaborate a bit on that for me.

 

3231    MR. WEICHSLER:  When we received the okay to produce sponsorship mention on television for the first time, we were not allowed to use any kind of moving objects, no telephone numbers, as you know, and just storefronts and the name of the business.

 

3232    We got compensated for not being allowed to use real advertisements by getting $40 a week per program hour from Rogers. 

 

3233    Once we had the relaxed sponsorship, which included using logos and some moving pictures and telephone numbers, these $40 were absolutely stopped right away.  Therefore, my statement that we did not get any money any more from Rogers so the money must have gone somewhere else and so they must have kept it. 

 

3234    COMMISSIONER GRAUER:  Sometimes I don't know the answer to the question, but you know, often when there's an acquisition and a channel like this is introduced --

 

3235    MR. WEICHSLER:  Yes?

 

3236    COMMISSIONER GRAUER:  -- the licensee will -- is obligated to put up a benefits package, and I'm just wondering if perhaps the initial funding that you received, and whatnot, was part of a benefit package that expired, or whether, in fact, there was an identified portion of what was being charged to the customers was designated for the multicultural producers.  Do you know whether it was one or the other?

 

3237    MR. WEICHSLER:  That was the -- your latter point was actually the point which I understood when I started 15 and a half years ago, that a portion of the cable payments, maybe two cents, or one cent, or half a cent, I don't know, was allocated for the multicultural producers.  And in the meantime, that -- because we got a relaxed sponsorship, the thinking probably was that now that we make so money that we don't really need any more.

 

3238    COMMISSIONER GRAUER:  Do you know -- you also say:

 

In an unprecedented move, Rogers, without telling me, rebroadcast satellite programs which were on my show for a fee to viewers.

 

3239    MR. WEICHSLER:  That's right.

 

3240    COMMISSIONER GRAUER:  I wonder if you could explain.

 

3241    MR. WEICHSLER:  I think that is something that could easily be a case for lawyer because the situation is that I have the contract with the Deutsche Welle.  I have a contract with the Deutsche Welle since the Deutsche Welle exists in 1986. 

 

3242    First, we actually carried the programs from the University of Oregon, this is by car, to Vancouver, and then we showed the programs here.  Then came the satellite.  We had the contract and we still do have the contract that I can re-broadcast any program from the Deutsche Welle, under certain conditions.  And all of a sudden, while I was using -- in those days, I had 13 and a half hours of programming a week.  While I was using the programs on my show for probably a number of years already, viewers come to me, I moved around in my community in different clubs and so forth.  They say well, "Don't you know that we already have another German television program?"  I says, "You must be kidding?"  So Rogers picked up the program, and the program is free.  It doesn't cost anything.  And Rogers picked up the program, and I know this is a very strong allegation on my part, but it is the truth, and Rogers charged for the program, their customers who wanted to have the program.

 

3243    By the way, Shaw, at the same time, also used the program of the Deutsche Welle in the Okanogan and they did not charge their viewers anything because they got the program free, as well.  The program is there on the satellite, all you have to do is get it down and send it.  And that is the truth.  And how I stood there in my community, how embarrassed I was that I didn't even know that Rogers, at the same time as I, playing the same program as they do, my god.  That is the kind of thing that I absolutely object to.  I mean, this is not business, this is robbery.

 

3244    COMMISSIONER GRAUER:  Sorry, you mean the Deutsche Welle channel, is that what you're saying, they started delivering the Deutsche Welle channel?

 

3245    MR. WEICHSLER:  That's right.  That's right.  It's a 24-hour program in three different languages.

 

3246    COMMISSIONER GRAUER:  One of the questions that we asked the other producers yesterday was --

 

3247    MR. WEICHSLER:  Yes.

 

3248    COMMISSIONER GRAUER:  -- whether they don't see any opportunities with the growth of more multilingual or ethnic program being available, whether it's through a channel that's over the air, should we choose to licence it, or through the increased digital services.  Do you not see opportunities for growth with respect to licensing these services which presumably, should put more revenue in the system?

 

3249    MR. WEICHSLER:  Ms. Commissioner, I would say with -- and I am not very good in technique.  I leave this to other people.  But what I see is that the -- with internet, with digital service, with satellite and everything else, the accessibility to international programming is limitless.  And it's very simple, if I want to see something or read something from Europe, or from South America, it doesn't make any difference, I can get to it.

 

3250    To have another channel in Vancouver, first of all, we have -- well, first of all, it will, what I heard from the applicants, not provide the service that we, at the multicultural channel, provide.  And second of all, what they cannot provide, absolutely not, is the direct contact with the community, with the different communities that we have built up over so many years, and every one of us is, in our community, a respected person for what we have done for our community.

 

3251    COMMISSIONER GRAUER:  So you are also of the view, are you, that there aren't opportunities for you to do work with them, but also you're persuaded that the Shaw won't exist so there won't be complimentary services?  Do I take it that --

 

3252    MR. WEICHSLER:  I would neither work for Rogers, nor for -- absolutely not for Mr. Ho, and but this is a different matter altogether.  Things will change, obviously, they always do, but my question is really, you know, why not help us multicultural producers who have done such a good service?  Actually, because it was your idea, CRTC's idea in the beginning that Rogers got actually the licence to run a cable service by providing a multicultural service.  We have done this over the last 22 years.  Why not -- you know, I mean, give us a pat on the back and say, "Well, you've done a good job."  Don't send us away, just give us a chance to fight fairly.  I mean, it means that we should get the same kind of opportunity to sell advertisements, and then it goes on with Shaw and so forth.  So we are in the position to discuss business then. 

 

3253    COMMISSIONER GRAUER:  Well, this is my last question, but we don't have anything -- we only act on applications we have in front of us, and I'm not sure what we are to act on with respect to community producers, given that we don't have an application in front of us.

 

3254    MR. WEICHSLER:  Well, we have made the first step.  You knew our concerns.  We have been very outspoken about what we want.  We all know exactly.  We go the same direction, and to give us a chance to do advertise, this would be only fair.  Why should Rogers or Multivan have the opportunity to sell advertisement to my community when I do a much better job than they will ever be able to do, and I cannot advertise for my viewers, or for my businesspeople, for my sponsors, and for my advertisers.  Thank you.

 

3255    COMMISSIONER GRAUER:  Well, thank you very much, Mr. Weichsler, and I appreciate you taking the time to come here today.

 

3256    MR. WEICHSLER:  No problem.

 

3257    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Weichsler?

 

3258    MR. WEICHSLER:  Yes?

 

3259    THE CHAIRPERSON:  You're providing, obviously, some foreign German language programming on the channel at the moment?

 

3260    MR. WEICHSLER:  We bring -- you would be surprised what we do on our show.  We bring a couple of programs from Germany.  We bring segments from Switzerland.  We bring one program in English, which is called, "You are Being Journalled," which is also from the Deutsche Welle, but it is in English.  The reason why it is in English is because I made the decision to do so because I have the feeling that also Canadians should understand, and hear, and see what is happening in the world from a European point of view.  And then I have a local program which is called Lokal Nachrichten, which is local news, which I produce every week, and it's a half-hour program, and going through the difficulties to produce it is absolutely phenomenal, with the regulations imposed by Rogers, and now by Shaw.  That is I have to, for example, on Monday, put in a request for another promulgation of the program for the next three months, and I have to list in this contract offer that I -- whom I will interview from December -- from January to March, the name of the people I have to interview, I want to interview, the topic of the interviews, and so forth, and so forth.  So you can imagine how difficult it is to want this local programming, but I do that because I think it is the most valuable service on television that I can give my communities.

 

3261    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Weichsler, I understand, then, that you produce, yourself, what we would call a local program?

 

3262    MR. WEICHSLER:  That's absolutely true, yes.

 

3263    THE CHAIRPERSON:  And how -- what proportion of what you offer on the channel is locally produced?

 

3264    MR. WEICHSLER:  I didn't understand you.  What question of what?

 

3265    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Of the hours a week or a month --

 

3266    MR. WEICHSLER:  Oh, I see, yeah.

 

3267    THE CHAIRPERSON:  -- that you provide, rather, to the channel.

 

3268    MR. WEICHSLER:  How many percentage, then?

 

3269    THE CHAIRPERSON:  How much is actually produced locally, as opposed to purchasing the rights and bringing it into Canada?

 

3270    MR. WEICHSLER:  This half-hour program is absolutely produced locally.

 

3271    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Half an hour a week?

 

3272    MR. WEICHSLER:  That's right.

 

3273    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Now, you just said that you were not a technical person?

 

3274    MR. WEICHSLER:  No.

 

3275    THE CHAIRPERSON:  What facilities do you use at the moment to provide that half hour?

 

3276    MR. WEICHSLER:  Yes, we have our own cameras.  We have our own equipment that we can replay and get ready for broadcasting, and then we use the edit suite of Shaw.

 

3277    THE CHAIRPERSON:  You have heard, of course -- have you been here in the last few days?

 

3278    MR. WEICHSLER:  Yes, I have.

 

3279    THE CHAIRPERSON:  And you're aware that all the research that has been done appears to indicate a desire by the multicultural community for local programming that reflects them.  I understand that it probably wouldn't be the case for imported programming, but how difficult would it be to join one of the applicants to produce half an hour of German-language programming per week?

 

3280    MR. WEICHSLER:  I have not been approached and this is one of the situations where I say that if they really meant that my experience and my contacts, and what I know about the community is valuable to them and not threatening to them, then we would have talked, but we did not.

 

3281    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Well, you are aware that all these application plans are often very competitive exercises, and that many of your fellow producers have, themselves, indicated that they intended to apply, and so on.  So it's not that easy before the fact to actually --

 

3282    MR. WEICHSLER:  That's right.

 

3283    THE CHAIRPERSON:  -- to make contacts and promises, et cetera.

 

3284    MR. WEICHSLER:  Yes.

 

3285    THE CHAIRPERSON:  So I know what you mean, you want to see some good will, but in the end, if we were to licence the service, that service would have to provide programming, and both applicants have tried to convince us that what they need is local programming.

 

3286    MR. WEICHSLER:  That's right.

 

3287    THE CHAIRPERSON:  So obviously, they'll have to find somebody in the community who can help them put together something, if they really mean that they want a local service.

 

3288    MR. WEICHSLER:  That's exactly my way of thinking, as well, yes.

 

3289    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yes.  And that service, I'm sure, will not have the -- well, I'm not sure, but in all likelihood, when you look at the plans and the schedule, will not have the ability to provide hours and hours of German language programming that's imported.  So there may be a complementarity there that will end up to your advantage, where you can provide them with what they say they're going to provide and continue providing the other.

 

3290    With regard to whether the programming you purchase from Deutsche Welle is you have exclusive rights, we're unable -- we're certainly not in a position to say whether you were granted exclusive rights, or whether somebody else could also broadcast it, or just use it on another channel.

 

3291    MR. WEICHSLER:  Madam Chair is absolutely right.  Anybody can pick up the satellite dish.  Anybody can buy themselves a satellite dish and pick up the satellite program from Deutsche Welle.  It becomes a different matter when it is being used commercially and being sold to the public, and I think that is something that you might want to look into.  When this happened, I thought -- not only I felt betrayed by Rogers, because they could have told me beforehand.  I mean, at least I would have been prepared to -- I mean, to stand before my community, to have a good answer, but no, I had to hear it --

 

3292    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Well, perhaps you should speak to Deutsche Welle as to why they --

 

3293    MR. WEICHSLER:  No, I do not --

 

3294    THE CHAIRPERSON:  -- they provide you with programming and then they, themselves, then make it available is really -- from our perspective, that's how it works.  They're on the eligible list.  It's their programming and they sell some to you, you have to look at your contract as to whether they're responsible for selling it to somebody else as well.  I find it difficult to see something wrong with a cable operator supplying it if Deutsche Welle lets them, but that is not a matter, of course, that we know much about.  It's a commercial arrangement between you.  But as I did with one of your producer colleagues yesterday, I urge you to put a more optimistic cast on this than you do.

 

3295    MR. WEICHSLER:  Madam Chair, thank you very much.  I am very optimistic, otherwise, I wouldn't be here.  I'm sure that you make the right decision.  And as to my productions what I do, I have done programming for Switzerland, Germany and Austria, programs that you can see over there about our communities, and I think I contribute a lot to understanding within our community that we provide a very valuable program, and all of us producers do that, and we will try our best to do it in the future, as well.

 

3296    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yes.  Thank you, Mr. Weichsler for getting up early.  Some people stay up late, others get up early to speak to us.  We appreciate it.  It's difficult for everybody to make choices.  The world moves on and so on, but we appreciate your concerns.  Thank you. 

 

3297    MR. WEICHSLER:  I'm a morning person.  Thank you very much, ma'am.

 

3298    THE CHAIRPERSON:  I remind people, it's very rude to have telephones and beepers ringing when someone is addressing us, that they must be turned off.  Madam Secretary, please.

 

3299    THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  Our next intervener this morning is Multicultural Broadcasting Network Inc.  I invite Mr. Ibrahim to come forward.  I'm not seeing any movement.  We will recall Multicultural Broadcasting Network later. 

 

3300    Next on the list is Pacific Rim Intercultural Action Society.  And Madam Chair, for the record, Mr. Gordon Kadota will be addressing you on behalf of Mr. Horita.

 

3301    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.  Good morning, would you kindly spell your name for me, please.

 

3302    MR. KADOTA:  My name is Gordon Kadota K-a-d-o-t-a.

 

3303    Madam Chair, ladies and gentlemen of the Commission, I appreciate this opportunity to make a presentation. 

 

3304    We had submitted a written letter to the Commission to appear at this hearing, and my presentation, oral presentation will essentially follow that which was presented before.  There are a few additions that will be made orally.

 

3305    The Pacific Rim Intercultural Action Society, and if I may refer to this organization as ICAS, we've taken the initials of Intercultural Action Society to call the organization ICAS, and I will refer to ICAS as that in this presentation. 

 

3306    ICAS is a non-profit community organization that was founded in 1985 and received charitable status in 1989.  ICAS has been actively engaged in the production and broadcasting of Japanese-language television, as well as initiating and participating in promoting the interchange between the Japanese/Canadian community and other ethnic organizations.

 

3307    When Rogers Multicultural Channel was initiated in 1979, there were eight ethnic productions, including Japanese.  However, the individual who was producing the Japanese program faced insurmountable financial difficulties, owing to the high cost of program acquisitions and subsequently, consulted the community.

 

3308    The community expressed the continued need and support for Japanese Canadian television programming, and ICAS was founded in 1985.

 

3309    Subsequently, unlike the other ethnic productions, our program productions and agreements with Rogers Cable, which is now Shaw, have been conducted as a non-profit Japanese Canadian community organization.

 

3310    Apart from the two nominally-paid staff, ICAS is operated by eight directors and some 100 volunteers, and donations from the community, and some grants from government agencies in order to provide a vital service to the Japanese Canadian community of the Greater Vancouver area.

 

3311    This broad support is evidence of recognizing the need for this service.  It is also evidence that a multicultural channel must be made available as, of course, multiculturism is now the reality in our Canadian society.

 

3312    Currently, there are two applications for one multicultural commercial station.  And while we recognize the granting of such a licence perhaps may be the reflection of the times in the situation of our society today, both proposals are obviously commercially oriented and market dictated and will contain very limited hours for some of the ethnic groups and including Japanese.

 

3313    We see this with the multicultural channel, CFMT TV in Toronto, for which there, I understand, is only 30 minutes per week of Japanese programming.  The Japanese Canadian community could not be served with such limited hours and production input. 

 

3314    In this regard, we respectfully request to know if Shaw Multicultural Channel, which was first Rogers, will continue to present multicultural format when the licence for a new multicultural channel is granted. 

 

3315    At a recent LMtv presentation, it was clearly stated by the LMtv representatives that Shaw is obligated to maintain the multicultural channel.  And we wish to know if that is mandated by the CRTC.  We ask this question specifically because we were recently informed by Shaw that Shaw cannot commit to any programming beyond March, 2001 -- I'm sorry, 2002.  Next year.

 

3316    The Japanese community television programming is vital to the Japanese Canadian community.  It is an integral part of today's multicultural society, and in particular, serves as a constant reminder of the special place of Japanese Canadians in the history and culture of Canada. 

 

3317    In summary, ICAS, as a duly registered, non-profit society has, through the Rogers/Shaw Multicultural Channel, provided four to five hours per week of TV programming to the Japanese Canadian community of Greater Vancouver for the past 16 years.  And while ICAS firmly believes that both applicants of the current application process cannot or will not provide anywhere near this level of programming time-wise, and, therefore, content-wise, then there is a greater concern also that Shaw may discontinue or substantially alter the present multicultural channel, given that we were informed that we could not schedule any programming beyond March, 2002.  So this is the dilemma in the situation of ICAS.

 

3318    Unfortunately, executive producer, Mr. Horita, had to be at the studio this morning so I, as a director of ICAS for the past seven years, also having served the Japanese Canadian community over the past forty years, both locally and nationally, I am representing ICAS for this presentation.  I thank you for your time.

 

3319    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Kadota.  Commissioner Cardozo, please.

 

3320    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  Thank you, Mr. Kadota, very much for being here. 

 

3321    Just let me ask you to clarify how many -- you said that you have provided, was it, 14 hours a week?

 

3322    MR. KADOTA:  A week, four to -- four to five hours per week.

 

3323    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Oh, four to five, okay.

 

3324    MR. KADOTA:  It has varied over the past 16 years, but --

 

3325    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Okay.  And tell me about the language in which you do the programming, is it in Japanese, or English?

 

3326    MR. KADOTA:  It's in Japanese, and there are a number of programs, or the drama that is imported or brought in from Japan has subtitles in English, and there has been, over the past recent years, specific programming plans for English programming directed to the younger Japanese Canadian members, whose first language would be English.

 

3327    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  All right.  So at this point in Vancouver, what's the proportion of new immigrants to second, third, fourth generation?

 

3328    MR. KADOTA:  Yes.  Over the past 10, 12 years, or so, the way of defining or describing our community of the Greater Vancouver area, today, I use the -- the explanation is Japanese-speaking members of the community and English-speaking members of the community.  And in this regard, it is estimated that there 20 to 25,000 -- 25 to 30,000 people of Japanese descent in the Greater Vancouver area, of which approximately one-third, probably somewhere between 10 to 12,000, whose language is Japanese, or first language is Japanese.

 

3329    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Okay.  Now, on the matter of the status of the Shaw Multicultural Channel, I think I can tell you that they're not obligated to continue, that they are a community service that they have provided and that we have not obligated it in the past so we couldn't -- I mean, we'd have to go through some sort of process if we wanted to obligate that in the future, and I don't know whether we have the tools to do that.  And so I think it is more or less, well, we've heard that Shaw has said that they will make a decision, or what various people have said in the past couple of days is that they will make a decision on the future of that service based on the outcome of this decision.

 

3330    So as some people have pointed out, you would -- one way of looking at that situation is you could end up with a 100-percent ethnic service being replaced by a 60-percent ethnic service, and then others would point out that a lot of that 100 percent is foreign content.  And then what we've also heard in the last couple of days, today and yesterday, is that there was not a lot of resources put in and that's how we've ended up with a lot of foreign programming.

 

3331    That's about all I can tell you as far as I know.  We can't offer you any assurance that that's going to continue.  There has been a couple of letters of intent filed by community producers here to either revamp such a service, or to have a low-power service.  That would be, I think we talked about, 100-percent ethnic.  And that's about all I can tell you in terms of where I think it's going now. 

 

3332    Now, what you're telling us is that four to five hours, I think, is not what either -- I haven't checked just now, but I don't think either of the applicants are suggesting --

 

3333    MR. KADOTA:  Well, if both applicants -- whichever is granted a licence, if either of them go according to what the market dictates, shall we say, and I think that's the way that it will go, then obviously, the Japanese Canadian market is very small and I do not know if either applicant has in their plans -- I know that one of them has listed producers and so forth, but in terms of program content-wise, as well as time-wise, I don't know if there is any significant expression of the time allotted for -- for instance, for Japanese.

 

3334    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Well, the issue of -- I think one has -- 1.6 percent.  Well, how do you suggest the issue of market demand be considered?  We're looking at commercial applications here.

 

3335    MR. KADOTA:  Yes.

 

3336    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  So there would be a fair amount of market consideration.

 

3337    MR. KADOTA:  Yes.

 

3338    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Does that mean that -- well, that means the smaller groups will get left out?

 

3339    MR. KADOTA:  It means that the smaller groups will get, of course, proportioned a smaller amount of time.  And that's, of course, dictated by the market, and that is obvious.

 

3340    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Yes.

 

3341    MR. KADOTA:  I have no problem with that.  It's just that what will happen is that if and when a licence is granted to either applicant, that more than likely, the amount -- and as we see in Toronto, the amount of time for Japanese programming will be maybe 30 minutes a week, and in that 30 minutes, it is certainly not possible to produce anything near what is being produced today through the Shaw Multicultural Channel.  And even though there are a number of problems with that that Mr. Weichsler, the previous speaker, just referred to, it is vitally important that somehow that multicultural channel continue, but I have now been informed that Shaw is probably not obligated to continue. 

 

3342    I was under the impression that that multicultural channel was initiated.  I thought it was through the government in promoting multiculturalism, and I believe that's the case, but I wasn't sure under what mandate, or what obligations there were in continuing that channel.

 

3343    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Well, certainly, it might have been obligated at an earlier time, but certainly, we have reduced the regulation in that area, and the argument that the cable companies made to us was that in a competitive situation with cable and satellite, the presence of community cable will give them an advantage over satellite, and therefore, market will determine that they would continue to have and flourish community cable.  I'm going to suggest that that hasn't -- that isn't the way it's worked out.

 

3344    MR. KADOTA:  I understand.  I suppose, in summary, that if a licence is granted to one of the two applicants, then the amount of time for a certain -- a number of the ethnic programming, including Japanese, will be greatly, greatly diminished regardless of which applicant receive their licence.  And if the Shaw Multicultural Channel is drastically either changed in its formatting, or if it's discontinued, then these several multicultural programs are just going to disappear.

 

3345    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Yes.  So let me ask you, then.  If we were to licence one of these two applications, and there was a language the multicultural channel could continue, the Shaw Multicultural Channel, perhaps revamped with advertising, is that an option that you would find -- would you be able to carry on the program?

 

3346    Like, as I understand it, if the Shaw Multicultural Channel continued --

 

3347    MR. KADOTA:  Yes.

 

3348    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  -- you really don't care whether or not we licence one of the two applicants?  I shouldn't say "don't care," but it doesn't affect that?

 

3349    MR. KADOTA:  It should not, no.

 

3350    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Okay.  Okay, thanks.  Could I just ask, were you a member of the National Association of Japanese Canadians?

 

3351    MR. KADOTA:  I'm the initial president of it. 

 

3352    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  I thought so.  I think we met many years ago at an earlier --

 

3353    MR. KADOTA:  We may have, yes.

 

3354    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  -- reincarnation of mine, but it's very nice to see you again, and I thank you for being here.

 

3355    MR. KADOTA:  Thank you.  Thank you.

 

3356    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.  Thank you, Mr. Kadota for appearing and expressing your concerns and position.

 

3357    MR. KADOTA:  Thank you.

 

3358    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Madam Secretary, please.

 

3359    THE SECRETARY:  Our next intervener this morning is the Asian Television Network International Limited.  Would Shan Chandrasekar come forward, please.

 

3360    For the record, Madam Chair, I just want to check again to see if KCTV has arrived.  Would you come forward, please.

 

3361    MR. CHO:  Good morning. 

 

3362    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good morning.

 

3363    MR. CHO:  I was delayed this morning. You called me first thing in the morning, but I couldn't answer.

 

3364    THE CHAIRPERSON:  I'm persistent.  We called again.

 

3365    MR. CHO:  And thank you for giving me another chance.  Hello, Commissioners and ladies and gentlemen.  My name is Nathan Cho, a Canadian with a strong Korean background. 

 

3366    I have been president of KCTV, a Korean ethnic programming on Talentvision, and on Rogers Multicultural channel, and now Shaw Multicultural Channel, until last year, when I had to take a leave for personal reasons.

 

3367    However, I'm here today because KCTV has been the business of my family for many years, and because my brother, who is currently president of KCTV is unable to give a speech today.

 

3368    I will make a case on behalf of KCTV today, however I would like to remind you that I also filed an email intervention as a private citizen.

 

3369    As you may recall, KCTV wrote a letter of intervention to show our position to both of the applications, MVBC TV and LMtv.  There were several reasons as to why it opposed licensing of these two applications, yet among those reasons outlined in the letter, what matters the most was the fear of competition.

 

3370    The Korean programming has been going on very well on Talentvision and Rogers Multicultural Channel.  KCTV's position over the years has been to keep the status quo so that Korean programming should remain intact for viewers and that the market should continue to be viable for the business. 

 

3371    Over the years, KCTV has been especially vehement in its opposition to Rogers' application.  As you may recall, Rogers once offered only a half hour of Korean programming when it made a gesture to take over Talentvision.

 

3372    The viewers' right was at stake, because Talentvision had been programming 14 hours per week of Korean programming already.  This is a good example of how a new entity can disrupt the operation of existing entities, of how viewers are robbed of their rights in the name of free capitalism, and of how important it is to have a proper consultation with the public in the television industry.

 

3373    Not only did viewers wish to keep their rights intact in the turmoil, but KCTV also wanted to keep the status quo of its operations. 

 

3374    When I had a talk with a member of Rogers at the time, he said that there were many Korean producers available in the market and could not guarantee job opportunities for members of KCTV who had been, thus far, working exceptionally well with Talentvision.

 

3375    There was no doubt that we were to be in limbo in the change of ownership.  I'd like to let commissioners know that the shock from this experience is still reverberating in the mind of KCTV members.

 

3376    So you understand why the Korean public and KCTV are together in their effort to maintain the status quo of the current affairs.

 

3377    I'm now going to speak as a private citizen apart from the official position of KCTV, my family business.  Even though KCTV has opposed the idea of any new multilingual channel, I as a private man, would like to say that the birth of a new channel is now imminent.  Let's have a reality check.

 

3378    We are now living in the digital world, a world where many TV channels are being created, and viewers are being offered more choice than ever.

 

3379    Korean viewers are now welcoming the idea of a new channel, and new Korean programming.  The situation is not that KCTV is currently offering the viewers poor programming, but that they simply expect something new that will complement the current programming.

 

3380    Since viewer choice is the foremost consideration, I regard the arrival of a new channel not as a threat, but as an opportunity that will benefit Korean viewers.

 

3381    Furthermore, despite the fact that KCTV does not like competition in any form from any new channel, KCTV and, for that matter, any current existing ethnic TV station will have to face the reality that the new channel will affect them to a degree.  The plan is, how well the CRTC commissioners could establish devices to the fact that the impact might be minimized. 

 

3382    Now, I'd like to talk about whether I support MVBC TV or LMtv, if a licence is to be granted to such channel.  As I said earlier, Rogers past track record shows that it was short of consulting with the Korean community when it attempted to set up a new channel in the past.

 

3383    It did not give any indication as to whether Korean programming would be sustained on the new channel.  Its position has been the same over the years, that the Korean market is not strong enough in Vancouver to sustain the programming.  That the Korean programming would have to be subsidized with revenues generated from the other English-language programs like famous American drama, therefore that the Korean programming cannot stand on its own right on the new Rogers channel.

 

3384    Furthermore, Rogers did not show any clue as to whether it will compete against or complement the Korean programming on Talentvision, and Rogers -- rather Shaw Multicultural channel.

 

3385    Neither did Rogers mention about hiring Korean producers like me, who am now an independent producer and eager to provide talent upon Rogers' demand.

 

3386    In short, there has been so much entrenched distrust between Rogers and the Korean community, that the new application by Rogers is not received favourably at all by the community.

 

3387    On the other hand, I'd like to support MBTV if the commissioners are indeed determined to give a licence to MBTV.  One of the reasons why MBTV deserves credit is the strong local background of its owners.  Unlike the people of Rogers, who come from the east and do not seem to understand the feelings of local people in Vancouver, the people of MBTV seem to have the common touch.

 

3388    You will recall how Rogers stirred turmoil in Vancouver when it introduced a negative billing policy.  Rogers finally gave way to public anger and changed this policy.

 

3389    But this incident exemplifies the way Rogers regards the local people in Vancouver.  On the other hand, Robert Lee, one of the owners of MBTV, is a true Vancouverite.  He's a businessman, but contributed a large sum of money to the University of British Columbia by developing land on its campus.

 

3390    I also had a talk with James Ho, president of MBTV.  He came to Vancouver, Canada when he was 15 years old, and understands firsthand the feelings of first generation, or 1.5 generation immigrants, meaning generation in between first and second generations, who are the viewers who will be watching the new channel.

 

3391    Mr. Ho said that he was open and sensitive to concerns of the Korean community.  One of the major concerns of the Korean people was the programming hours of the Korean language.  MBTV slated a whopping four fours per week of the Korean language.  Mr. Ho suggested that MBTV's Korean programming would be differentiated from that of KCTV in order to ward off competition against that of KCTV.

 

3392    He also pointed out that producers like me would have the opportunity to participate in MBTV's programming because there's ample amount of hours for any talented Korean producers to handle.  Mr. Ho said that the Korean programming is one of the programs that MBTV is paying a lot of attention to. 

 

3393    In conclusion, Commissioners, the TV broadcasting business is not simply a free enterprises driven by money.  It has to come together with public input.  I would like to point out that over the years, Rogers has failed to listen to the Korean community in Vancouver and build public trust.

 

3394    On the other hand, MBTV is a brand new entity of Vancouver native television, a group of credible people well positioned toward the concern of the Korean community.  It is all for those reasons that I would ask the commissioners to grant a licence to MBTV.  Thank you very much for listening.

 

3395    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Cho, you are representing yourself and your brother --

 

3396    MR. CHO:  That's right.

 

3397    THE CHAIRPERSON: -- at KCTV Productions?

 

3398    MR. CHO:  That's right.  We are together.

 

3399    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Now, we have you, of course, as the negative intervention, and I notice that your brother although also not in favour of either, at the end of his intervention which is separate from KCTV's said that he would form a more concrete opinion --

 

3400    MR. CHO:  Mm-hmm.

 

3401    THE CHAIRPERSON:  -- about whether he supports one or the other by the time he appeared before us.  Do I take it then that both of you now --

 

3402    MR. CHO:  We are together.  That's right.

 

3403    THE CHAIRPERSON:  In support?

 

3404    MR. CHO:  Yes.

 

3405    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Now, do you retain your view, however, that your first alternative is that we not license either?

 

3406    MR. CHO:  Yes. I retain that view because one of the reasons why we oppose those two applicants is fear of competition.  So I do retain that view, but on the other hand, I can't change the tide of technology and the new world we are living in.  I have to adjust and reposition myself to the new environment.  In that regard, I want to choose one of the two applicants as a new licensee.

 

3407    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Cho, and I'm sure your brother will be also thankful that you spoke for both of you.

 

3408    MR. CHO:

 

3409    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

 

3410    MR. CHO:  No questions?

 

3411    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Well, do you want the question?  I'll ask you one.

 

3412    MR. CHO:  I do.

 

3413    THE CHAIRPERSON:  If you're prepared to support one of the two interventions, then you are familiar with them somewhat, I suppose.  Why do you see in your written intervention that ethnic programming is relegated to not important parts of the program schedule.  Are you aware of what the commitments of the two applicants are with regard to prime time?

 

3414    MR. CHO:  Yes.  I think the sentence is in part wrong, because I think either one of the applicants are putting lots of hours on the ethnic language during those prime time hours.  So I believe they are making effort, sincere effort, to include ethnic languages in the prime time hours.

 

3415    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yes.  You see, insisting that I ask you a question made you have to say that you were wrong.

 

3416    MR. CHO:  I am willing to say I'm wrong.

 

3417    THE CHAIRPERSON:  You would have gotten away with it otherwise.  You also seem to think that an over the air station using a frequency of some importance or significance would be possible, 100 percent multilingual.  How do you come to this conclusion in saying that that has been tried and found difficult?  That's been tried in Montreal for example.  Is it because the Vancouver market is different or as a business person, why do you think you could have 100 percent and not have this subsidy from pitching some programming to mainstream, or pitching some mainstream programming to the population?  I'm sure some ethnic population also watch American programming.

 

3418    MR. CHO:  Yes.  I disagree with my brother on that, so -- but I am now here and --

 

3419    THE CHAIRPERSON:  It's not doing well for you, is it?

 

3420    MR. CHO:  Yes.  Yes, but at the beginning of my speech, I said we were together, okay.  So please understand.  Yes.  Ethnic programming -- you cannot show only ethnic programming in the hours.  You have to -- if you are a businessman, I think MBTV and LMtv are bigger, shrewd businessmen so they would understand that it's not possible to have the ethnic languages only in their programming hours.

 

3421    So it's good that they are putting together those English language programming with ethnic programming hours, but they have to walk a delicate line between them, so that they don't embarrass the ethnic language communities by putting too much focus on the English language programming during those prime hours, or the overall programming hours for that matter.

 

3422    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Cho, what you're speaking about of course are very important matters, but we appreciate your sense of humour as well.

 

3423    MR. CHO:  Thank you.

 

3424    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Have a good day.  Madam Secretary, please.

 

3425    THE SECRETARY:  I would like to recall Multicultural Broadcasting Network Inc.  Mr. Ibrahim, would you come forward, please?

 

3426    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good morning, Mr. Ibrahim.

 

3427    MR. IBRAHIM:  Good morning, Madam Chair, and good morning, Commissioners.  Welcome to Vancouver.  Thank you for accommodating me and it gives me great pleasure.  I'm delightful.  This is the third Commission I get to see after Monsieur Spicer, and I have made efforts --

 

3428    THE CHAIRPERSON:  I'm better looking.

 

3429    MR. IBRAHIM:  I hope you are, and it's a pleasure.  And as a brief introduction, since this is my first meeting with you, I would like to give an introduction about MBN which was an applicant for the first basic multicultural channel way back in 1993, and there was a typo in the original things.  That's why I've given a new brief to your secretary.

 

3430    Since then, CRTC never opened or accepted any calls for a basic multicultural application until now.  MBN and its subsidiary, Community Digest, Multicultural Publications, which has been serving the multicultural communities in the print medium for the last 20 years, since late Premier Trudeau introduced multiculturalism to our country, and we have been serving it in two official languages in Canada, in English and in French, and in the three provinces, including B.C., Alberta and Ontario.

 

3431    We started the French edition when the long-standing paper, La Soleil went defunct, and we have been trying to serve that market.  Since then, of course, La Centre de Francophone Colombie-Britannique has of course started their own paper, but that's serving strictly the subscribers and members of its own centre, whereas we go throughout the whole province of British Columbia, to all the libraries, and community centres.

 

3432    However, even though the CRTC has made several inroads, this one area which I feel a little -- where you lack and you can do a lot of progress, is despite my several requests, both to the commissions here in 1996, if you look at the transcripts then, and in person when Mr. Munfeld was here -- Michael Munfeld was here.  I spoke to him.  And I have made the requests both at your Vancouver office and department in Ottawa regarding the dissemination of information on calls to the multicultural community and advertising regarding public notices, but it was been to no avail. 

 

3433    And I hope the good-looking Madam Chairperson can do something about it.  Of course a separate request is formally being made.

 

3434    THE CHAIRPERSON:  I do not ask for these comments.

 

3435    MR. IBRAHIM:  Sure.  It's my pleasure.  I am making a separate for a change in procedure which is being forwarded to the secretary there. 

 

3436    But anyway, coming back to the Rogers application when they applied way back in 1996, when it was called LMtv, the Lower Mainland TV, and subsequently CFM TV in 1999, it was not the LMtv, a totally multicultural station that is applying today.

 

3437    Of course, it still is a subsidiary of Rogers, and they just started outside B.C., and strangely enough their press release or material doesn't even bring the word Rogers in -- mentions it even once.

 

3438    And one doesn't need to guess - you've been hearing all the interveners - the popularity of Rogers in the Vancouver area.  They were interested in taking over Talentvision in the first call, and 60 percent ethnic programming in the second one.

 

3439    But in any case, upon this second failure in July, 2000, I did approach the Chair of LMtv and Mobina Jaffer, whom I have known for the last 20 years serving in the diverse multicultural community in different capacities.  We've been doing it in different way, and she's a pioneer in hers, and I've been in the print medium.  And I'm interested to share my vision of the multicultural channel, the kind that I had envisioned in 1993, and expressed my interest in getting some sort of an alliance with Rogers, or any other interested party, because she had been with this case for a few years.

 

3440    I interested her with my plans and because not only I know her and have supported her in the past attempts when she ran for the federal elections through my publications and through write-ups, but both of us come from the same country back from Africa, and out of the same ethnic descent and religion.

 

3441    She did promise to get back to me, and since she was so enthusiastic about an ethnic channel, an ethnic voice, and what more could one expect then to have one which is owned and operated by the ethnics themselves?

 

3442    So, I thought that basically  ‑‑ I was positive of her conviction from the outcry she had expressed in the press, resulting in the failure from the second application, the CRTC 2000/219 decision as a black there for the ethnic community, et cetera, et cetera.

 

3443    At that point, I didn't know if she was still an employee of Rogers or done with the failure of the public application and given up with the whole idea, or ‑‑ because there were a few changes going on, Rogers has closed their shop here and moving away, and if she meant what she said, then she would definitely -- I will definitely get her support in my project.  But she, of course, never kept her promise and I have never heard from her since then.

 

3444    The next thing I did hear, however, and this is where the CRTC comes in, and this is where we can somehow have more liaison and be friendly in this area where you have not made any inroads, is when the two applicants called a press conference and wanted, of course, support and interventions.

 

3445    Between then and now, much to my astonishment, I was flabbergasted when I found out that Ms. Jaffer has supposedly led a community-based federal cabinet appeal, as the president of YWC of Canada, in which she stated that we have listened building partnership with local ethnic communities, and individuals.  She even forwarded a courtesy copy of this Governor in Council petition to rival broadcasters, but not to the one she listened and promised especially, when the very thrust for argument was the decision does not treat Canada's ethnic community equitably. 

 

3446    Of course, even as the president of MAES, that is the society registered in B.C., the Multicultural Arts and Entertainment Society, of which I am a president, we were never even informed, asked for an input, or anything with regards to this petition.

 

3447    And basically the petition is for the Lower Mainland, and I will get to the petition in a moment, but even then, this was never mentioned even once.  I was not informed, not consulted.  And knowing Mobina for all these years, I know that she is the epitome of equality and justice with an extensive record of achievement in this area, she could not be equitable to her own fellow ethnic Canadian brother.  And I don't think that a multinational like Rogers would even care to do justice to the integrity, values, aspirations and feelings of a multicultural community at large.

 

3448    Now, I don't want to take the time, and I don't want to go through the extent of all the ideas and the project that were used in filing this application, which of course I shared with Ms. Jaffer.  Because my concept was like a United Nation broadcasting where all the communities work and join hands which I coined starting from the days when I was writing press and World View pay channel came into existence.

 

3449    This very concept of 24 language for 24 groups is somewhat reflected -- which was in my application -- is reflected in LMtv.  And for that very reason, I think that they should be disqualified and a new call must be announced to all ethnic communities at large, who are concerned with this particular major step that CRTC is taking.  But this should only be done after factual figures from the 2001 census which took place in this year will be out in the middle of next year.  Because until then, we are basing everything on the census four, five years back, and a lot of demographics have changed, and this will indeed give a true ‑‑ what everyone wants, an equitable picture of the racial and ethnic mix desirable and deserving equitable representation to the unrepresented.

 

3450    But just to briefly give you ‑‑ touch on the petition, which really appalled me, was that the petition in Council which was sent is a little misrepresentation, because it is signed by two attorneys who are sending it, and one would think it's being sent by the United Way or by YWCA.

 

3451    Now, I was trying to get that copy of that petition.  So I made efforts from my end on calling this organizations, and much ‑‑ this is where the nickel drops here.  I was surprised that they didn't even have a copy of the petition, and in fact, the United Way said that they are not even supporting either of the application.  They are basically neutral in their position, and that this was not sent by them.  It was sent on their own.

 

3452    And I'm thinking, in the interest of the community if this petition is indeed sent, then of course people like me, who have approached and would like to be part of it should have been contacted, but then when I finally got the petition, it didn't surprise me because --

 

3453    THE SECRETARY:  Mr. Ibrahim, I'm sorry to have to interrupt you, but we're past the 10 minutes.  So if you could conclude quickly --

 

3454    MR. IBRAHIM:  Sure.

 

3455    THE SECRETARY:  -- we'd appreciate it.

 

3456    MR. IBRAHIM:  Thank you.

 

3457    THE SECRETARY:  Thank you.

 

3458    MR. IBRAHIM:  So eight out of 10 petitioners are out in the east and most of the commentators are also from the east, and failure to go through their past contracts, I feel that the fact the petition is probably written even by the Rogers machinery in the east, using the technical jargon. 

 

3459    The petition states and initiates that two ethnic programming air and the national programming stuff that they want to recycle, but basically I would like to share with you and conclude that the problems in the petition that exist ‑‑ and I can go through all that, and we don't have the time, until the cows come home.

 

3460    But I don't know if this Commission which regulates people can go back and say to them, that, "You know, you guys mentioned in 1996 you will not disconnect the channel 20 which was a multicultural channel", they went around, bit the system, sold the whole thing, and here we are today stuck with Shaw, which is trying to dismantle the channel.

 

3461    So in conclusion, the multicultural community in British Columbia is a vibrant fabric of the entire provincial population.  To be fair to every member of this community, I feel the application process for a new multicultural station should be given the greatest possible public reach, and not be confined to only multinational organizations from non B.C. jurisdiction.

 

3462    I also believe that no one ethnic minority, no matter how powerful or financially strong, or in population size, should be given the opportunity to win such a license by default of successful businessmen who have shown no interest in supporting all minorities whose history seems to show a bias towards business and profit without helping the average citizenry to an effective extent. 

 

3463    I trust you will seriously look at the lack of applications before you, their quality and hopefully allow further input from the general public to ensure that this process truly reflects the best interests of all British Columbians and not only select wealthy who I understand do not truly have the multicultural media background needed and related to sell the best interest of programming and through the community.  Thank you, ma'am.

 

3464    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Ibrahim.  Commissioner Cardozo, please.

 

3465    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Thank you, Mr. Ibrahim.  I've got a couple of questions for you, but I would like to say that I -- before I ask them, I'd like to stay clear of the discussions you've had with any individuals, and disagreements that you might have had, and to keep the discussion on the matter of the applications and the concepts.

 

3466    As I understand it, you would either have liked to have headed up an application, or been part of an application which you say was the concept of a United Nations approach.

 

3467    MR. IBRAHIM:  Right.

 

3468    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Right, and your feeling is that neither of the applicants today have taken that approach?

 

3469    MR. IBRAHIM:  Yes.  I agree with that, but more so, I also have a case against CRTC, in the sense that --

 

3470    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  I'll come to that in a second.

 

3471    MR. IBRAHIM:  Sure.  Okay.

 

3472    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  So you have come up with the United Nations concept for a channel, and as I understand it, neither of them have taken that idea.

 

3473    MR. IBRAHIM:  That's right.

 

3474    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Okay.  So your idea is still yours?

 

3475    MR. IBRAHIM:  Well, they --

 

3476    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Well, let me ask you then, the kind of thing you were talking about, would it more like one of the other ideas that is around, as you may ‑‑ I don't know how much time you've had to be here in the last couple of days, but there's been a couple of letters of interest have been filed with us to the effect that we should either have a low power TV, which would be 100 percent ethnic, perhaps owned or controlled by community producers.  And the other idea was a revamped version of the Shaw Multicultural channel which would allow for advertising, and that would be 100 percent ethnic, as opposed to the 60 or 68 percent ethnic that the applicants have put before us.  Are those kind of ideas more in line with what you would like to see?

 

3477    MR. IBRAHIM:  My vision is sort of a blend of all of this, in part.  It's a little bit of what we have of Vision TV, a little bit of brokerage programming, a little bit of what you just suggested.

 

3478    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Okay.  So --

 

3479    MR. IBRAHIM:  It's a mixed bag.

 

3480    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  So if I can understand then to license -- if we were to license one of the two applicants, that doesn't take away from your idea.  Could your concept work with there being one of the two applicants licensed?

 

3481    MR. IBRAHIM:  No.  It would not work.

 

3482    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  And why is that?

 

3483    MR. IBRAHIM:  Because basically, you see you held this pie.

 

3484    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  You have?

 

3485    MR. IBRAHIM:  A pie.

 

3486    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  A pie.

 

3487    MR. IBRAHIM:  Three hundred sixty degree.

 

3488    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Yes.

 

3489    MR. IBRAHIM:  And that's a limited pie we have for Lower Mainland, and no matter how many pieces you try to make, it's still the same pie.

 

3490    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Right.

 

3491    MR. IBRAHIM:  And if you take away that, you as a Commission never saw even room for one channel.  Now, if you give license to this ‑‑ and there will only be this one channel, because I have been following CRTC for last 10 years.

 

3492    If you give away this license to one of them, that's the end of it.  People like me, or all this other things will not work.  It's taken so long to even get you to listen, I don't know whether you'll give a license to one, but the fact that you even come to listen ‑‑ and you still have a lot of inroads to make even in the listening part but --

 

3493    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  But you just said you don't believe in license when you were asking us not to license one.  All right.

 

3494    MR. IBRAHIM:  Yes, because you see the point is that if you give a license to one --

 

3495    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Yes.

 

3496    MR. IBRAHIM:  ‑‑ where do people like me and aspiring people stand?

 

3497    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  I guess what some people are saying is we could have ‑‑ we, meaning Vancouver could have two services.  One would be the commercial 60/40 ‑‑ 60 or 68 percent model that one of the two candidates are putting forward, and then there could be the second service, which would be either low power or revamped Shaw Multicultural service.

 

3498    MR. IBRAHIM:  I don't think there is room for that, Commissioner.

 

3499    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  And not room in what sense, that there's not enough demand, or that there's not enough advertising? 

 

3500    MR. IBRAHIM:  There's not enough advertising.  Also the fact that as you see now, there is no shortage of programming.  If you add up the programs from Vision, from various ethnic stuff we get now from NOW TV that you licensed, but it's basically the type of programming, the type of communities that are underserved and you have to know all these things in order to approach that.

 

3501    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Are you a producer yourself?  Are you interested in producing certain programs, or are you just interested in the concept happening?

 

3502    MR. IBRAHIM:  I'm interested in the concept.

 

3503    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Okay.  Tell me then about your process concerns about the CRTC, and you've filed another letter and may go over that in detail at another point.  So I'll just take a minute or two.  With regards to this, we don't put our press releases a whole lot, and partly the problem is who do we send it to, and who do we not.  So as you know, certain things are advertised in newspapers, but our website is the most ubiquitous or at least includes everything that we say, of the decisions of public notices.  So daily there's stuff there. 

 

3504    Now, I appreciate that while some larger companies may have ability to have somebody whose job it is to look at our website every day, the average individual or small producer can't do that.  Did you not hear about the call that was ‑‑ you know, there was some reference in the newspapers, news stories, people were talking about it.

 

3505    MR. IBRAHIM:  No, Commissioner, and I am in the media, and let me tell you something.  On a day-to-day basis, I meet four to five people in press conferences, colleagues in the newspaper business, and I have asked them, and you can do yourself a favour after me.  You can ask the interveners if they are under oath, that when did they first hear about this intervention, and most of them will tell you that they heard after ‑‑ and if you ask them anything about the petition they probably wouldn't have seen the light of the day, how the petition look, how many pages it is.  So --

 

3506    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Well, the petition isn't something to do with us.  It's a petition between people --

 

3507    MR. IBRAHIM:  I know, but you are here as ‑‑

 

3508    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  -- and the federal government.

 

3509    MR. IBRAHIM:  ‑‑ a result of that.  You are here as --

 

3510    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Well, but I just want you to understand.  The petition to the federal cabinet doesn't have anything to do --

 

3511    MR. IBRAHIM:  Oh, yes.

 

3512    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  -- with our process.

 

3513    MR. IBRAHIM:  I realize that.

 

3514    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  It's separate.

 

3515    MR. IBRAHIM:  I realize that, but this is the outcome of that.

 

3516    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Yes.

 

3517    MR. IBRAHIM:  And that is why we are here today.  You would not be listening to us if that wasn't ever ‑‑ if that never came around.  But the point is that if you for the first time are going to serve the community, the 800,000 community, don't you think, in fairness that the community should be given that opportunity ‑‑ because I know what your norm is, to put it in one major newspaper. 

 

3518    That's fine and dandy because of whatever ‑‑ but when for the first time you are going to the community that you never approach, you never license, and you are even beginning to just listen.  We don't know if you'll even license this.  Don't you think it's just in fairness that an opportunity be given to aspiring applicants within this 800,000 community that if they have anything to do, that they can come forward, join forces, a public forum be held, a debate be shared with, so that we know where we stand? 

 

3519    I mean, isn't it just fair, because here you want to solve that community but that community is not getting a chance, and after the decision is done, we'll get a channel and we'll be stuck with that.  And so I think it's just fair if, unless you only want to be stuck with the five major, and be bored with hearing them, you know, hearing after hearing.

 

3520    I think this is one opportunity where we can be friendly in --

 

3521    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Yes.  I think you for that very much.  I'm not sure I'll look into whether indeed we did put out a press release on this, but even then I think it's a good point is to ‑‑ for us to think about calls of this particular nature, whether, you know, the degree to which we do reach out.  You're right.  Different issues can be ‑‑ we can conduct specific targeted outreach to suit the particular issue at hand.

 

3522    So I thank you for raising that with us, and we will certainly keep looking at that, and I hope you keep in touch with us on these matters and processes so --

 

3523    MR. IBRAHIM:  I have made efforts but it has not gone anywhere.  So I hope, you know, you take this seriously, and I have a request for Madam Chair.  I hope this will have some impact, and I won't have to send a petition.  Just kidding.

 

3524    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Thanks very much. 

 

3525    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Ibrahim, after your earlier comments I will remember you a long time.

 

3526    MR. IBRAHIM:  Pleasure.

 

3527    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Ibrahim, you are quite familiar with the petition that was sent to the government.  When did you become familiar with it?  When did you know that it was filed?

 

3528    MR. IBRAHIM:  Just about two months ago, when I received a press release stating that the applications had been filed and --

 

3529    THE CHAIRPERSON:  I thought we hadn't issued a press release.

 

3530    MR. IBRAHIM:  No, a press release from the applicants, stating that they want us to give an intervention in favour of their station.

 

3531    THE CHAIRPERSON:  So you were never aware of the fact that we issued a report to the government as a result of the petition --

 

3532    MR. IBRAHIM:  No.  I didn't even know anything about --

 

3533    THE CHAIRPERSON:  -- and that had a press release as well.  So it was a long process.  It was a petition as I said in my introductory remarks on Monday morning, a requirement by the government for us to report on the Vancouver situation, and then we did report, issue that report publicly, and I believe the same day issued a call for applications.

 

3534    But you've only become aware of the petition after all this?

 

3535    MR. IBRAHIM:  Yes.

 

3536    THE CHAIRPERSON:  And therefore you were not aware of the report, nor of the call for applications?

 

3537    MR. IBRAHIM:  That's right, ma'am, because I see in your very notes -- not your notes, but the Commission's note that you said most expeditious manner, an immediate call for application, and boom boom.  Soon after you got this order in council, you decided to ‑‑ and you made this report which I subsequently got for your good offices, you issued this call.  And that was it.  And by a certain date you have wanted the letter of intent filed, and all this took like, one, two, three, and we are here today. 

 

3538    And I think this is a ‑‑ you just have to realize that we are new community to this medium, to the air waves, and I think you should be subtle in trying to educate us and bring awareness rather than do what you ‑‑ because that's what you've been doing.  That's your job, and I know you don't have time to go into all the subtleties, but when you are approaching this particular community, I think it's just fair that everyone gets a crack at it.

 

3539    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Ibrahim.  As you know this process has been a long one.  After the petition Commission received the Order in Council, and then issued a call for comments, and then issued a report, and then a call, and then the notice of public hearing.  We always of course, try to improve the way we reach the community and we appreciate your remarks.  We do take them into consideration. 

 

3540    You're probably aware from your contacts with the Vancouver office that we issue thousands --

 

3541    MR. IBRAHIM:  Oh, yes.

 

3542    THE CHAIRPERSON:  -- of decisions a year, and it's very difficult.  Perhaps people you're associated with in the community as well have to find some way of having their ear to the ground, so to speak, to help us get to you, because it's a very endeavour for us from the west to the east to --

 

3543    MR. IBRAHIM:  Sure.

 

3544    THE CHAIRPERSON:  But we do get these concerns and complaints many times and we do try to take them into consideration, especially using the new technological means of diffusing information, but we certainly appreciate your expressing your concerns and to the extent possible, we'll take them into consideration.

 

3545    MR. IBRAHIM:  Very kind of you.

 

3546    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Ibrahim.  Madam Secretary.

 

3547    THE SECRETARY:  Madam Chair, for the record we've been informed that Asian Television Network International Limited cannot present today.

 

3548    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.  Other than Voz Portuguese, this is the end of comments or negative intervention; is that correct?  Do we have Voz Portuguese here?

 

3549    THE SECRETARY:  Yes, Madam Chair, they are here.

 

3550    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Perhaps we should hear them, and then take a break and then go onto the supporting interveners.

 

3551    THE SECRETARY:  Would Maria Fonseca ‑‑ have I done that even close to right?  Fonseca, welcome.

 

3552    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good morning.

 

3553    MS. FONSECA:  Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, good morning.  My name is Maria Fonseca, a first generation Canadian whose parents immigrated to Canada in 1954. 

 

3554    I am executive producer of the television program Voz Portuguesa on Shaw Multicultural Channel, which has served the local Portuguese speaking community in Greater Vancouver for the past 10 years.  This program offers a wide range of news and entertainment both produced locally and from abroad.

 

3555    In addition, until my recent resignation on September 16, 2001, I was a producer of the radio program Voz Portuguesa, serving the Portuguese-speaking communities of Vancouver and Victoria since February of 1994. 

 

3556    This program aired on CHMB AM 1320, a station owned and operated by Mainstream Broadcasting Corporation, with Mr. James Ho as chairperson, president and chief executive officer.

 

3557    I would like to clarify that unlike the producers that previously appeared, I produce both television and radio programs on a voluntary basis.

 

3558    The Portuguese community is too small to financially sustain the programs.  It was difficult enough to break even as license rights to air foreign programs are expensive.

 

3559    My livelihood is my full-time job.  I am chief financial officer of a local prominent engineering firm.  My active career, two children and the 20 average voluntary hours I spend on the programs kept me very busy.

 

3560    It was my dream and passion to maintain ethnic ties to my parents' homeland that brought me to produce the Portuguese programs.  What is an accountant doing producing programs, one might ask.  This accountant has a brother with extensive broadcasting experience, who trained the other volunteers and myself to fulfill the passion he had and was unable to carry due to conflict of interest with his employers.

 

3561    It was this Multivan application, the FM radio license application that Mainstream Broadcasting Corporation applied for earlier on this year, and the politics that these applications created at CHMB that led to my resignation on September 16th.

 

3562    Reasons for my resignation:  I was one of the founding producers that came before you in support that Mainstream Broadcasting Corporation attain a multicultural AM radio programming license.  At that time schedules were done and ethnic communities were promised hours of air time, which the Portuguese Community was promised seven hours of weekly programming.

 

3563    Shortly after Mainstream Broadcasting was granted the license to operate AM 1320, the local Portuguese community saw the previous commitment for programming on CHMB reduced to two hours per week.

 

3564    This came as a complete shock to the local community, especially after the overwhelming support from our listeners during the Mainstream Broadcasting's application process.  This reduction in programming was also felt by other languages on CHMB at the time.

 

3565    Mainstream Broadcasting then went through partnership difficulties and there was a management change.  This change in management brought about the hiring of an executive whose personal conflict of interest brought unrest to the voluntary team that worked on the Portuguese program.  Without my knowledge, that same executive approached one of my volunteers, Mr Mendes, and launched a Brazilian program, official language also Portuguese. 

 

3566    We were previously playing Brazilian music on Voz Portuguesa, and covered some Brazilian news and had a Brazilian volunteer on the program.  Mr. Alvaro Mendes is not of Brazilian origin.  I'll slow down.

 

3567    I questioned why I was not made aware of this before it was announced on air, or given the opportunity for the team to produce the Brazilian program.  The official answer was that the executive was not aware who was the producer of the Portuguese program, as the list had disappeared from the station.

 

3568    This is ironic, as I had just recently been invited to their annual dinner with Mr. James Ho.  In addition, he advised me that the station was applying for an FM license and could not go before the CRTC without the required number of ethnic programs. 

 

3569    The producers had to be different to count as another ethnic program.  I was not allowed to let Mr. Mendes go from our Portuguese program, as the fellow volunteers requested, and which we would have minimized the confusion in the community.  I was told I no longer had the authority and autonomy to make that decision.

 

3570    I was asked to obtain letters of support from the Portuguese Community for the FM station, with a promise of more Portuguese programming, yet with no assurance that the hours would not be decreased as happened the first time.

 

3571    Even though the executive did not allow me to discuss my concerns with Mr. James Ho, I once again put my faith in Mr. Ho, and obtained approximately 400 signatures on form letters, of support produced by CHMB. 

 

3572    Once signed, these letters were to be picked up by CHMB for the addresses and dates to be word processed onto the signed form letters.  These letters are still at my home as Mr. Mendes was told to duplicate the same effort in the same community.

 

3573    The final straw that led to my resignation was Multivan's application before you today, an application that as a member of their team, I expected to hear of the news directly from them, and not from outside sources.

 

3574    Regardless of the fact that I was not part of their chosen television producers, I still considered myself part of their team and would have appreciated the courtesy of sharing in their announcement to the community.  I was now being treated like an ethnic minority.

 

3575    A direct quote from their application, "MVBC understands that Vancouver's ethnic population deserves to be understood, respected and treated with civility and courtesy". 

 

3576    How can MVBC treat local Multilingual groups with acceptance, make them feel a sense of belonging when Mainstream Broadcasting, locally owned, failed to do this with a small group of past producers on CHMB AM 1320, myself being one of them.

 

3577    I therefore resigned from producer of the program and appointed a successor who had the respect of the community and the team of volunteers, the technical knowledge, the mandate to continue producing quality live programs to professional standards, and the same passion and dream to create a bridge for the Portuguese speaking community.

 

3578    The community was ecstatic at the appointment, which was quickly revoked by CHMB.  Even after numerous complaints, CHMB signed an agreement with Mr. Mendes to produce both the Portuguese and Brazilian programs.

 

3579    Contrary to what they had previously stated, the requirement that both shows have different producers no longer existed.  Once again they did not understand, respect or reflect the Portuguese community's needs. 

 

3580    In addition, in response to the complaints about the appointment of Mr. Mendes, the callers were told that Mr. Mendes had obtained over 450 letters of support and that I did not produce any.  Very difficult for me to do if I was not made aware of the application.

 

3581    From Appendix C, Producer Biographies, Mr. Mendes is portrayed as "producing Voz Portuguesa, serving as television host, announcer, reporter, cameraman and editor.  Mr. Mendes performed the majority of the functions for the two years he was there.  In addition, he began hosting Voz Portuguesa radio program on CHMB, which began airing in 1997."  This statement is ironic, as the program was one of the first programs on the station since 1994.

 

3582    To clarify, Mr. Mendes was one of twelve volunteers.  In two years, even for a professional, working full time, attaining such high credentials in the broadcasting industry, with no past educational or practical knowledge is admirable.  However, for a part-time volunteer, this is unbelievable.  I was the producer of both programs and the editor was always a paid employee.

 

3583    Recently some members of the community brought to my attention that they did not know what they had signed when they signed the letters of support for this Multivan application.  Mr. Mendes had received most of the signatures outside of our local church, where people were told it was to obtain more Portuguese television programming.

 

3584    All of the form letters were in English, and the majority of them do not read English.  Even my sister-in-law signed a letter thinking the increase of programming hours was for the Shaw Multicultural Channel.  Others believed it was for the application that SIC, a national station from Portugal who were trying to acquire broadcasting rights in Vancouver, as they had been successful in Toronto.

 

3585    These concerns prompted me to review all the Portuguese form letters on Monday afternoon.  The following errors were found; duplication of letters, letters being backdated from the original date of signature, signatures not matching with the name and addresses typed on the letters.  Only two letters of the 265 I read had reference to the Portuguese community.  Incorrect names and addresses, obviously not typed by the person signing the letter, or even a Portuguese typist. 

 

3586    I always tell my employees, limit as much as possible number of errors in letters, but never misspell names.  Why not just sign a petition and create less paperwork for the CRTC and kill fewer trees?

 

3587    In principle, I agree with the establishment of a new commercial broadcast television station serving Vancouver's multilingual community.  I am not here for personal gain, or to request you to grant a license that favours the producers working for the Shaw Multicultural Channel, of which I am one.

 

3588    I welcome the competition that LMtv or Multivan will bring to Vancouver, as long as they're on the same level playing field.  However, I want you to be aware of the misleading statements that the owners and management of CHMB Radio have given to our local Portuguese Community, and in turn to the CRTC. 

 

3589    Why else are so many members of the Portuguese community angry about finding out that they signed letters for something completely different from what they were led to believe they were supporting?  Even if the Portuguese community feels mislead by Multivan's application, how many other communities may still be in the dark about what they are supporting?

 

3590    English is a second language to many of the people whose signatures you find on these letters.  So they cannot be faulted for perhaps misunderstanding this application.

 

3591    We in the Portuguese community feel we have been used, mislead, and then simply cast aside until Multivan's next application.  Please consider CHMB's track record when you review Multivan's promises with this application.

 

3592    Rogers has been front with us right from the start.  They have encouraged our community to write our own letters, and when it came to the former Rogers Multicultural Channel, they treated the Portuguese community with respect and fairness.

 

3593    Madam Chair, and members of the commission, whatever your decision may be, and if a license will be granted please ensure that the successful applicants have a proven record of keeping their promises to the CRTC and to its program producers.

 

3594    In closing, I would also like to thank you, Madam Chair, and members of the Commission for all the hard work and detailed questions you posed to the applicants and the interveners.  I appreciate that my tax dollars are being spent wisely.  Thank you for your time.

 

3595    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.  Thank you, Miss Fonseca.  We adore positive comments.  We don't get many.  We're doing well this morning.  Commissioner --

 

3596    MS. FONSECA:  I'll comment on Commissioner Cardozo.  He's handsome, but I can't flatter you.

 

3597    THE CHAIRPERSON:  I hope you prefer my hairdo?

 

3598    MS. FONSECA:  Yes.

 

3599    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Commissioner Pennefather, please, or you can flatter me if you like. 

 

3600    COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Thank you for your presentation, Ms. Fonseca.

 

3601    MS. FONSECA:  Fonseca.

 

3602    COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Fonseca.

 

3603    MS. FONSECA:  Yes.

 

3604    COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  I'm very sensitive to that.  My name is mispronounced a great surprisingly.

 

3605    MS. FONSECA:  That's okay.

 

3606    COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  I do want to concentrate a bit on the support you've given for the idea of such a service.  You've made your points very clearly, and I think we need to go into that further, but two basic areas. 

 

3607    You say that you do agree with the establishment of a new commercial television station serving the multicultural community, multilingual community.  Can you tell me why you support the establishment of such a service?

 

3608    MS. FONSECA:  The applicants have come forth with what seems to be quality programming.  As long as the commissioners and Madam Chair realize that the Shaw Multicultural channel has been there for years, give them the same level playing field, allow them to advertise, put a cap on the programming of the major communities that the applicants are going to carry.

 

3609    We just don't want to see this as two applicants coming forth as a business venture, hoping to get the larger South Asian and Chinese, capitalize on that market, and then forget about the other communities. 

 

3610    Rogers has been there for years, carry a lot of different ethnic communities, and a lot of them, like since 1998 have stopped local programming for a reason that you have heard already. 

 

3611    So the new applicants, if you're going to grant a license, as long as there is strict guidelines, and that they have to meet their promises, I think it'll be great for the community.  As long as everybody's on a level playing field because my co-producers, I have all the confidence in them that they can produce good programs and will be able to financially make the channel work as long they have the same rights as the new applicants.

 

3612    COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Okay.  You did add the words, level playing field to your text, and so you've just taken my second question, what you meant by that.  So you do see opportunities for producers with this multilingual, third language producers with this proposed service, be it one or the other applicants.

 

3613    One of the challenges that you raised this morning and in your letter though is the challenge of serving as many communities as possible with as much as possible, and I think that's one of the points behind your complaint, if we can look at it from the angle of the fairness with which all communities are treated and your concerns about that. 

 

3614    With that in mind, how do you about getting that balance if you look at the realities of bringing enough service to the variety of communities, and yet run a viable operation?  What I'm talking about is obviously the choices we can make between a 60/40 model with some English language programming, and 100 percent ethnic community channel, or 100 percent multilingual programming. 

 

3615    Do you have any comment on that as to which model works?  I mean, obviously with 100 percent you have the chance of serving more communities, or do you?  What works for you --

 

3616    MS. FONSECA:  I guess it's all the return -- yes, sorry.  It's all the return on the investment that the applicants want to get.  The producers that on the Shaw Multicultural Channel, they have a passion for what they are doing.  They do not look at the bottom line all the time. 

 

3617    They want to produce programs to serve their communities, and I have full confidence that if they are on the same level playing field, that they have the ability to sell advertising, they know their communities, that they can make the Shaw Multicultural or the low powered station that they're applying for viable.

 

3618    The applicants, on the other hand, might want that 60/40 split because they want a higher return on their money, and they're looking for the English-speaking programs, the American programs to make that advertising dollar from.

 

3619    So, you know, for all the applicants I heard, I've been here for two and a half days, and like I said I'm not a broadcaster.  I'm not a producer.  I'm a producer on a voluntary basis, but not professionally, and I've sat through and listened to all the applicants and all the question, and all of them saying that they have this passion and you know, wanting to help the communities, and I just sat back, saying, you know the Shaw Multicultural has been there for years. 

 

3620    If they really wanted quality programming, which I'm not saying that Shaw does not have, but that's what the applicants are saying, there is a lot of wealthy people in this audience, and I even look back and say, well maybe I'm doing the wrong thing.  Instead of putting my voluntary hours, let's take care of my career and hopefully become as wealthy as some of these members of the council to sit on one of those boards. 

 

3621    But they have the wealth so they could have supported the producers on the channel years ago, and helped them by giving them advertising dollars, or tax deductible donations to help the quality increase and give them the state of art equipment that they wanted.  But of course, the return on investment for that particular person was not there.

 

3622    So these applicants have come forward with a 60/40 split, hoping for a greater return on investment.

 

3623    COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Well, the theory also is that in a commercial environment it support the presence of the ethnic programming, which --

 

3624    MS. FONSECA:  Correct.

 

3625    COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  -- is in addition to what the community and the producers have.

 

3626    MS. FONSECA:  But I believe that if the Shaw ‑‑ it's my opinion that if Shaw is also granted the advertising capability of selling advertisements on this channel, that they can do 100 percent ethnic and still survive.

 

3627    COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER:  Thank you very much for your comments this morning, and for being here.

 

3628    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much for your appearance.

 

3629    MS. FONSECA:  Thank you.

 

3630    THE CHAIRPERSON:  I'm glad somebody stayed to listen.  Thank you.  We will now take a well deserved 15-minute break.  We'll be back in 15 minutes.

 

‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1030 / Suspension à 1030

 

‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1050 / Reprise à 1050

 

3631    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Welcome back.  Madam Secretary.

 

3632    THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  Our first presenter after the break is Justice Wally Opal.  Please go ahead when you're ready.

 

3633    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Before we proceed, I want to repeat what I said yesterday for those of you who weren't here, that the Commission has attempted to allow as many interveners as possible to appear before us in support of the applications, and as a result, we may not find it necessary or required to make the time longer by engaging into discussions or asking questions of the interveners, especially when their position is very clear, and we want to make sure that you don't read this as a lack of interest.

 

3634    Your written intervention will remain part of the record, and so will your appearance through the transcript.  So it's not a lack of interest, it's more a desire within the time that we have to hear as many of you as possible.  Proceed now, thank you.

 

3635    JUSTICE OPAL:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  My name is Wally Opal.  I'm here in my capacity as president of Law Courts Education Society, and I just want to make it clear at the outset that I'm here as an independent intervener, because Law Courts Education Society is a public legal education society which is independent, and as well because I'm a justice of the British Columbia Supreme Court, it would not be appropriate for me to endorse any particular application.

 

3636    But my purpose in being here, is to endorse in the strongest possible terms, the establishment of a multilingual television station for the Lower Mainland.

 

3637    Law Courts Education Society was established in 1989, and it was established as an outcome of the Hughes Commission which was a Royal Commission on access to justice, and the purpose of the society is to bridge the gap between the community and the courts.  It's to foster a better understanding on the part of the public as to how the criminal justice system and the civil justice system operates.

 

3638    And as such, we in the society are involved in a number of programs, wherein we go into the aboriginal communities, to the multicultural communities, to the schools, and to various other communities in order to advise the people as to how the system becomes accessible to them.

 

3639    It is really a partnership with the British Columbia court system to provide legal education programs within the educational system.  The society's essential mandate is to build bridges between the courts and the community, but most of all our mandate is to ensure that the public has a knowledge of their rights to access to the courts, to the police and to social agencies.  And accordingly, any access barriers based upon age, gender, ethnicity or disability are important factors in the work that we do.  And while we initially were established to care for this task in this province, I should tell you that our successes -- is grown beyond leaps and bounds and we are now working in an international atmosphere. 

 

3640    The government of South Africa has asked us to go there, and we provided a major report to them with CIDA on access to justice.  We've been to mainland China.  They've been here.  We have also been to Bosnia, Somalia, a number of American jurisdictions in order to assist them in providing education in such matters as victims of crime, how they access to courts, spousal violence, youth violence, judicial education and matters of that nature.

 

3641    It is with that in mind that we strongly support the establishment of a multilingual television station for the Lower Mainland.  There has been a tremendous change in the demographics of the Lower Mainland and in British Columbia within the last 15 to 20 years, and I'm sure the commissioners have already been apprised of the numbers and the impact of those numbers, but I think some of those numbers might well bear repeating.

 

3642    Forty percent of the City of Vancouver is now classified as visible minority.  Close to 50 percent of the City of Richmond is Asian.  Close to 35 percent of the City of Surrey is Indo-Canadian in origin.  Spanish is now the second largest language of use in the provincial courts in the Lower Mainland. 

 

3643    Last year in almost 2,000 cases, we required Spanish interpreters.  Vietnamese interpreters were required in 3,498 cases in the provincial court.  I'm not even talking about the Supreme Court in Vancouver.  The Cantonese interpreters were required in 1,231 cases.  The Punjabi interpreters in 689 cases.  That really indicates to us the significant and the dramatic change in demographics in this province.

 

3644    I was born and raised in British Columbia, and I can tell you that without even looking at the statistical data, if you just walk the streets of Vancouver, and particularly the outlying areas, the suburbs, you get a true picture of how dramatically this society has changed.  And because of that change, it is obvious that the justice system, both the civil system and the criminal system must reach out and make itself accessible to the persons of various ethnic backgrounds.

 

3645    The Law Courts Education Society have done extensive research in eight of the largest ethno-cultural communities in this province, and we've documented some of the assumptions that the members of these communities have concerning our legal system, and the misconceptions that many people have.  And it is with that in mind that we strongly urge this Commission to grant a license to a multilingual station so that the workings of our justice system, both criminal and civil, be made known to the members of our society. 

 

3646    Many of these people have no idea as to how our system works.  Many have come here with misconceptions from their own society.  For example, many immigrants of this province have come from mainland China.  The Chinese criminal legal system is entirely different from ours.  Those that are arrested in that country are assumed to be guilty, and the presumption of innocence is a principle that is not applicable there.  Rather, an accused person has to prove his or her innocence in the workings of their system.

 

3647    People are treated differently depending on the needs of the community.  We have found that many people are afraid to come forward and testify in our courts because of a fear of reprisal.  Those are attitudes and beliefs that they have brought with them from their homelands.

 

3648    This is particularly so in cases involving youth gangs where there is a fear of reprisal, and I'm sure that you can appreciate that one of the desirable objectives of the criminal justice system has to be to bring forward those victims of crime, so that they can come forward and tell their stories to us, and to tell those people that the criminal justice system is amenable and is friendly to their stories.

 

3649    We hear many stories where the justice system, the police are to be distrusted in many societies from which the people come to this country.  I've personally spoken to people of Vietnamese background who have told us that they have no trust of the police at all, and we have to tell them here that with our focus towards community-based policing, that the police are instructed to take their complaints seriously.  And that unlike incidents that take place in their homelands, they have no fear of disappearing while they're in the hands of the police in this country.

 

3650    We have to tell them to come forward to deal with these very important issues.  So I've attended workshops in the South Asian community that deal with spousal violence and alcoholism.  I can tell you that women in the South Asian community are not always aware of the availability of the resources, and the institutions that are available, transition houses.  They're not apprised of the availability of these.  Many, many women who are victims of spousal assault are afraid to come forward and tell their stories to the police for fear of reprisal.

 

3651    Many are afraid to come to the courts and to testify, because they feel they will not be believed.  And it is our mandate to go into the communities and to hold workshops with victims of violence and to tell them that our system is accessible to them regardless of their backgrounds, regardless of their monetary standards or their standard of living or anything of that nature.  That they will be treated equally when they come before our courts.

 

3652    Our society has worked with victims of spousal violence, victims of child abuse, young offenders and people who come in contact with auto crime.  We tell the newcomers about the rule of law and about our democratic system, about the legal rights that they're entitled to under our charter of rights, and how our democracy works.

 

3653    I recall that when I was a criminal lawyer, many immigrants who were charged with crimes assumed that the charges could be withdrawn by a simple payment to the police or to the judge and we tell them our system does not work in that fashion.  That we work in a system that is fair and will listen to both sides of a dispute.

 

3654    That really brings me to the focal point of why I'm here.  A multilingual station is absolutely essential to sell our message and to convey the message of the criminal and civil justice systems to our changing society.

 

3655    The media as we know it, the mass media, the public media has not kept pace with our changing demographics and I'm being charitable when I say that.  If you were to watch the 6:00 news in this city, you would not know that 40 percent of this city is visible minority.  You will see very few non-whites on camera.  The mainstream media has generally ignored the needs and the demands of the visible minority community.

 

3656    THE SECRETARY:  Excuse me, Justice --

 

3657    JUSTICE OPAL:  It is therefore --

 

3658    THE SECRETARY:  I'm sorry.  Excuse me.  We are past the time, if I could ask you wrap up, please.

 

3659    JUSTICE OPAL:  All right.  I'll just wind it up in two minutes.

 

3660    THE SECRETARY:  Thank you.

 

3661    JUSTICE OPAL:  I find this as somewhat novel that somebody's cutting me off for a change, and in my day job I cut other people off, so I --

 

3662    THE CHAIRPERSON:  I can assure you we are more polite when we're before the court.

 

3663    JUSTICE OPAL:  I said that outside, as a matter of fact.  I marvelled at your patience and how polite you were, and so I appreciate your kindness and your courtesy.

 

3664    I want to say one more thing, and that is in the mid 1990's, I was asked by the Province of British Columbia to conduct a Royal Commission on Policing.  And we held 57 days of public hearings, and at the conclusion of the Royal Commission we filed a 700-page report with the provincial government. 

 

3665    The report is said to be the last word in policing in Canada.  And I can tell you that the major concern in that study was the failure of the police and the failure of society to communicate with one another.  Our report was entitled, Closing the Gap, the Police and the Community, and nowhere was our work more important than in dealing with the ethnic societies, and to dealing with the misunderstandings that the multicultural people have with the workings of the police and the mandate of the police. 

 

3666    We only have to look at the Americans to find out the difficulties that they have had and it's for that reason that it's important that we have a multilingual station that explains the workings of the police to the public. 

 

3667    I want to say one more thing, and I'll shut it down here.  You have two issues before you.  First, should you grant a license, and secondly, if you grant a license to whom should it be granted?

 

3668    And I want to address the second issue now, since I've already dealt with the first.  I've told you at the outset that I'm not in a position to endorse any particular application, but I would urge with the greatest of respect that you carefully examine the backgrounds of the people who have appeared before you in asking for a license.  I would ask that you carefully look at and then examine their community records.  What proposals do they have for making our society better by being granted that license?  How can they assist us in solving the social issues that we have confronting us with the changing demographics? 

 

3669    I would look carefully at the backgrounds and the track records of the people who have come before you.  As I've said, it would be inappropriate for me to endorse any particular group, but I am urging you, and I'm sure you will pay careful attention to the track records and the curriculum vitae and the records of the people, and what they have done in our community in the multicultural issues.  And how they have attended and dealt with their very real street issues that many of us have dealt with, and I'm not talking simply of appearing at dinners and fundraisers and matters of that nature.

 

3670    I'm talking about who's gone into the community and worked with the people who are poor, the people whose voices can't be heard.  And I would urge this Commission to pay careful attention to the track records of those people who have come before you and have asked for the license.  And I am sure, and I have confidence that you will do the right thing at the end of the day.

 

3671    I again thank you for the courtesy of listening to me, and I apologize for being over my allotted time.  Thank you.

 

3672    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, and welcome, Justice Opal.  I hope you're impressed with the fact that our staff is trained not to give favours even to Justices.

 

3673    JUSTICE OPAL:  I have the utmost confidence in the Commission when you tell me that.

 

3674    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yes, but don't leave right away.  I have --

 

3675    JUSTICE OPAL:  All right.

 

3676    THE CHAIRPERSON:  -- a question or two.  This Law Court Education Society of British Columbia, it's not part of the Law Courts.  It's an association that you spend volunteer time with?

 

3677    JUSTICE OPAL:  That's correct. It was established as a partnership between the courts, between government and various segments of the community.

 

3678    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Now, if we do grant a license would you see it as part of the mandate of the Society to ensure that there is a link with the successful applicant so that the issues that you have spoken to are taken into consideration?

 

3679    JUSTICE OPAL:  We would, within our power, ensure that the issues that have been dealt with before you are dealt with and not forgotten, and that's the second part of my application, and that is that you ensure that whoever gets the license has a true commitment to assisting the multicultural communities.

 

3680    THE CHAIRPERSON:  But once we have granted a license, if we do, we will not be the ones involved in making sure that the advisory committee or the managers of the station keep this contact.  Do you see that as part of your mandate?

 

3681    JUSTICE OPAL:  It's a good question.  I'm not sure if it's a part of our mandate, but we have been asked to be involved in a number of organizations, not quite like this, but to assist people in multicultural issues and how we can best get the message of the multicultural community out to the community at large and to our institutions, and I would expect that we would have some kind of strong role to play in that.

 

3682    THE CHAIRPERSON:  I don't know how familiar you are with the applications, but both of them have made commitments for what is called in the industry public service announcements.  Would that be an avenue, for example, for some of the concerns that you want to --

 

3683    JUSTICE OPAL:  Absolutely. When I say --

 

3684    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Because part of their application is to offer not only the airtime, but also the expenditure that goes to ‑‑

 

3685    JUSTICE OPAL:  Absolutely, and you know, this has become ever so important since September the 11^th.  We've all read about the backlash that's taken place among certain members of our society. 

 

3686    It's therefore important that whoever gets the license takes some kind of proactive ‑‑ when I say proactive, funding is what I mean, that they get into the community, provide real funding to address issues of racism that very much are alive, regrettably here.

 

3687    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Before you leave, I thought I'd give you an anecdote.  If you don't know or read it -- not read it.  Maybe you can use it, but I read in a newspaper just, I think, a month ago, that in Germany, which speaks to the force of television to do exactly what you're concerned about, that in Germany when people are arrested sometimes they watch Law and Order, and then NYPD so often, that they say to the police right away, "I want to be mirandized", or "I'll take the first" or the 5^th or ‑‑ and to the point where the article followed by saying that the German government was trying to look into perhaps encouraging the production of a German type of Law and Order.

 

3688    JUSTICE OPAL:  Yes.  Yes.  We get the same reactions of people that come into our courts.  I've had people testifying before me who want to take the fifth.  You know, and they watch ‑‑

 

3689    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Oh, so I'm not telling you anything new.

 

3690    JUSTICE OPAL:  No.  Yes.

 

3691    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Shucks.

 

3692    JUSTICE OPAL:  And the Miranda warning is a perfect example of that.

 

3693    THE CHAIRPERSON:  It's interesting that the German government would actually look into what we've got and correct this by having a popular program of that type --

 

3694    JUSTICE OPAL:  Yes.

 

3695    THE CHAIRPERSON:  -- using our system and our own jurisprudence.

 

3696    JUSTICE OPAL:  It's very important to remember that our system is, while it has some basic similarities, it's not like the American system, and that ‑‑

 

3697    THE CHAIRPERSON:  No, but it speaks to the force of using public service announcements, using programming where possible that reflects the realities here to the communities that we're talking about.

 

3698    JUSTICE OPAL:  Right.

 

3699    THE CHAIRPERSON:  We appreciate your presence, Justice Opal, and of course the work the Society is doing is marvellous.

 

3700    JUSTICE OPAL:  Thank you.

 

3701    THE CHAIRPERSON:  And we hope that you'll find some -- and if we do give a license an extra voice for your work.

 

3702    JUSTICE OPAL:  Thank you.

 

3703    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.  Madam Secretary, please.

 

3704    THE SECRETARY:  Thank you Madam Chair.  Our next presenter is Senator Mobina Jaffer.  Would you like to come forward, please?

 

3705    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good morning, Senator Jaffer.

 

3706    SENATOR JAFFER:  Good morning.

 

3707    Madam Chair, members of the commission, I am Mobina Jaffer, Chair of the LMtv Advisory Board.  Thank you for allowing me to appear before you today in support of the application by LMtv for a new multilingual television station to serve the Lower Mainland.

 

3708    I was born in Uganda.  My family came to Canada in the 1970's as refugees.  For the past 30 years, Canada has nurtured my family and I.  In this great country, I've had a chance to work for and to achieve my dreams.  I was the first woman of South Asian origin to practice law in British Columbia.

 

3709    On Sunday, in Victoria, I represented the federal government at the wreath-laying ceremony.  Madam Chair, and members of the commission, where but in Canada in today's highly charged climate, could a Muslim woman refugee preside at a function for our country's armed forces?  We truly live in a great country.

 

3710    The people of this country have built a very tolerant and accepting society.  I owe a great debt to Canadians for the society that they built, a society that freely and equally allows men and women of all races, religions and cultures to achieve their dreams for themselves and for their children. 

I seek to repay my debt to Canada by working to strengthen the acceptance of diversity in our society and to ease the integration of new immigrants.  Over the years I have played leadership roles in a wide variety of organizations and associations, including the West Coast Women's Network, Immigrant and Visible Minority Women of British Columbia and the YWCA of Canada.

 

3711    But the journey of my family in Canada has not been easy.  I have felt the uncertainty and confusion of a new immigrant, faced with customs, cultures and practices that are new and different.

 

3712    As a refugee, when I walked into a prominent hotel in Vancouver, I was asked to use the side entrance.  I didn't know that a person who looked like me was supposed to be a dishwasher.  I found that out the hard way.

 

3713    As a young lawyer, I was called an interpreter or even the accused.  I didn't know that a woman who looked like me was not supposed to be a lawyer.  I found that out the hard way.

 

3714    As a mother of a daughter, and only as mothers can say, the most gorgeous daughter in this world, my daughter's teacher tearfully called me and informed me that my daughter was the only girl who was not invited to her best friend's birthday party because of the colour of her skin.  I didn't know colour of skin mattered for children's birthday parties.  I found this out the hard way.

 

3715    My commitment to multilingual television broadcasting and to the LMtv application is deeply rooted in all of these things.  In my own experience as a refugee, the real needs of new immigrants and in my commitment to multicultural Canada.

 

3716    In 1993, I met with Tony Viner and Leslie Sole to discuss multilingual television.  We agreed that a multilingual television station such as CFMT was needed here in Vancouver.  We formed a partnership to make that dream a reality.

 

3717    We visited many communities and consulted widely.  We ate many samosas and spring rolls.  And Phil Lind, Tony Viner, Leslie Sole and Madeline Ziniak, with the community, have never wavered in pursuing our dream.

 

3718    The application that LMtv presented to you reflects more than eight years of partnership and wide community consultation.  It is an exceptional application in all respects.

 

3719    I would like to highlight four key elements of the LMtv application; one, community involvement, two, the high quality programming, three, empowerment, and four, positive portrayal.  Four commitments that are very important to us here.

 

3720    Firstly, community involvement.  I have attended CFMT Advisory Board meetings.  CFMT management regularly represents their plans to the Advisory Board for their review and comments.  Individual members of the board are actively involved in the life of the station, and in the communities that it serves.

 

3721    I agreed to chair the LMtv Advisory Board because I know that it will be a strong and effective voice for community involvement.

 

3722    Secondly, high quality programming.  LMtv will meet real needs in our communities by giving the highest priority to local news, public affairs and information programming.  I will never forget the first time I attended CFMT studios and saw all the different language teams come together to reflect the news and interests of the community.  Madam Chair, you will be interested to know they were led by a very strong woman who was telling all these men what to do.  That really made me feel good.

 

3723    Third, empowerment.  LMtv will ensure that our communities are not cut off from the world, and will allow us to work together to address shared concerns.

 

3724    For example, my grandfather was from Bhuj, the area of India that was struck by the earthquake last year.  My family supports a girls' boarding school in Bhuj.  Three students died in the earthquake.  Here in Vancouver, it was hard to get information on the earthquake, or to organize our communities to respond. 

 

3725    In Toronto, CFMT provided detailed coverage of the earthquake and helped to coordinate the contribution of the local South Asian community to the international relief effort.  In fact, CFMT was the first to make contact with the Red Cross in Bhuj, and was able to help locate families for people in Toronto.  LMtv will do that for our communities here in Vancouver.

 

3726    Fourthly, positive portrayal. I want to commend the Commission for the steps that you have taken to address portrayal issues, including your important initiative. 

 

3727    The tragic events of September 11 and their aftermath have highlighted the problem of negative portrayal.  However, as the Commission knows, this is not a new problem.  As a member of Canada's Muslim community, a visible minority and a woman, I can tell you from personal experience that the risks arising from negative portrayal have never been greater, and the need to find ways to promote positive portrayal has never been more urgent.

 

3728    Media coverage of the difficult issues in the South Asian community here in Vancouver, such as the murder of Mr. Hayer and the disputes in the Gurudwaras have raised serious concerns in the community.  The upcoming Air India trial will soon be part of our daily media environment.  Media coverage of those trials could cause great damage to our communities through careless stereotyping or negative portrayal.

 

3729    LMtv will help to overcome negative stereotypes by presenting ethnic communities in high quality, professionally produced local television programming.  It will combat prejudice and discrimination by facilitating cross-cultural communication.

 

3730    We need an experienced multilingual television broadcaster to change things for the better in our communities.  LMtv will have the experience and the necessary expertise.

 

3731    Madam Chair, members of the commission, for eight years -- just to give you an idea of what eight years is in my life, my son did his first degree, he went one year to Mexico, he did his second degree in law and he's now my law partner.  That's what eight years has been in my life.

 

3732    I deeply believe that LMtv will make a profound contribution in my community.  It will give new Canadians their best opportunity to integrate fully into the life of the community and into Canada.  It will give all Canadians an opportunity to understand each other better at a time when the events of September 11^th have made such understanding even more urgent.

 

3733    Allow me to just give you one example of how September 11^th has brought absolute fear in all our lives.  We in the North American continent have lost our innocence.  Yesterday, Manpreet Grewal talked about intent and proven record.  Multivan, Monica Deol  and Joe Segal have spoken very eloquently about their intent, and I don't envy your position.  They certainly have shown that they have an intent.  But Madam Chair, and members of the commission, with intent you have to have a proven record.

 

3734    Last night, we all went home late as you know.  I unfortunately fell asleep watching television news while my husband went to get the groceries.  I've got him trained well.

 

3735    THE SECRETARY:  Excuse me.  You're past the time.  Could I ask you to wrap up, please?

 

3736    SENATOR JAFFER:  I am.  Thank you.  When he returned, he had forgotten the house keys, and he knocked the door loudly.  I was absolutely engulfed in fear, the kind of fear I felt when Idi Amin soldiers in Uganda came to get my husband as I helplessly watched with 20 other family members them dragging him away.  I have not had those fears and nightmares for the last 20 years.  We all know that all our nerves are at an edge.  All Canadians are nervous at this point.

 

3737    Madam Chair and members of the commission, at this time, we need more than intent.  We need a proven record.  We need the experience and the expertise.  Thank you very much.

 

3738    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Senator Jaffer.  Your position is quite clear.  We have no questions.

 

3739    SENATOR JAFFER:  Thank you.

 

3740    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you for your participation.  Madam Secretary, please.

 

3741    THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  Our next presentation will be via teleconference, and it will Honourable Gurmant Grewal.  I believe they're just putting the call through now.  Is that Honourable Gurmant Grewal on the line?

 

3742    HONOURABLE GREWAL:  Yes.  Hi.  Good morning.

 

3743    THE SECRETARY:  Good morning.  We are ready to go ahead with your presentation whenever you're ready.  Please go ahead.

 

3744    HONOURABLE MR. GREWAL:  I regret, Madame, that I couldn't appear in person due to the nature of my schedule, as you can imagine, and I thank you for allowing me to be heard over the telephone.  I hope the line will be clear.

 

3745    Madam President as you may know, I'm the MP for Surrey Central and currently I'm the Official Opposition's Critic for Foreign Affairs for Asia-Pacific as well as the Critic for Scrutiny of Regulations.  In my two terms as Member of Parliament I've held many portfolios, among them I have been the Chief Critic for Multiculturalism and a member of the Standing Committee of the House of Commons for Canadian Heritage.

 

3746    I have lived in and visited many countries in the world.  So I will be talking to you from my personal perspective as I was living in the Lower Mainland of British Columbia.  My constituency of Surrey Central is one of the largest in Canada in population.  Because many immigrants live in Surrey I have very enriched experience in listening to the diverse newcomer population, understanding their issues and problems and dealing with them on a day-to-day basis.

 

3747    Canada is the most diverse country in the world.  Diversity is our asset not a liability.  Diversity strengthens the multicultural fabric of Canada.

 

3748    But let me mention that in many nations, diversity in population, when not managed effectively, has led to civil and ethnic wars and strife, for example, we all know Yugoslavia, Kosovo, Bosnia, Rwanda, Nigeria, Sierra Leone and so on.

 

3749    I was, Madam Chair, Assistant Professor of Management at the University of Liberia.  Liberia is in West Africa and it is embroiled in a bloody civil war.  Out of its population of one million people, over a quarter million have died in civil war.  The reason for the civil war - a disparity in ethnic diversity, unfairness in distributing government resources and segregation of population based on ethnicity.

 

3750    I'm optimistic that Canada will continue to be an example to the rest of the world and show that the diverse population of Canada not only getting along but also lives in harmony and prospers together.  But the role of our government and its partnership with communities must enhance this positive trend rather than diminish it, inform and educate them adequately, and get them involved as equal Canadians.  I think the media has its work cut out for them.

 

3751    We all have condemned the despicable terrorist attacks on September 11th.  There were reports of backlash against some ethnic minorities, particularly Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus and people of Arabian origin, and these people have been living in fear.  This highlights the need for strong ethnic ;media and the need to inform, create awareness and educate all Canadians.

 

3752    To further make my point in establishing the need for stronger ethnic voice in the media, as we know, fuelled primarily by waves of immigration from Asia-Pacific, greater Vancouver is the fastest growing and one of the most ethno-culturally and linguistically diverse urban areas in Canada.  Over half its population is of an ethnic origin whose mother tongue is neither English nor French.  The South Asian community is the third largest ethnic community in British Columbia. 

 

3753    Madam President, we know the ethnic community needs to build their talent. They need access and a balanced voice in the media to build their communities.  And we all know that stronger communities make a stronger nation.  They need media in their third languages and there is no funding from any level of government to do that.

 

3754    The Canadian Television Fund contributed about $200 million in 1999-2000 to support the independent production of television programming; 66 percent of the funds were spent on English and the remaining 33 percent was spent on French language productions.  Absolutely no funding was available for ethnic or third language programming.  So this fundamental inequality needs to be addressed.

 

3755    Current ethnic print, radio and TV media is neither fully professional nor fully evolved yet.  The mainstream media sometimes portrays the negative side of designated ethnic minorities.  There is a need for local TV media from and for the ethnic communities that redress the fundamental inequality in Canada's broadcasting system.  And there is a need to support future generations of broadcasters, like students studying ethnic journalism, broadcasting and communication.

 

3756    There are problems in the community like alcoholism, drugs, gangs and shootings, extended families, arranged marriages, increased divorces, women and child abuse, male dominance, family expectations from youth, seniors issues, the generation gap and differing cultural values.  These issues remain unaddressed.  People should not a feel a bottle-neck in the community that could lead to eruption.  Home is where the heart is.  I hope LMtv will bring the world home to us.

 

3757    Madam President, I can tell many stories that I have heard from my constituents to the panel members but I'm cognizant of time.  They often run into problems because of poor understanding and difficulty in adapting to a Canadian lifestyle.  By the time our courts deal with such evils in society, it is not only too late and too expensive but little can be done at that stage.

 

3758    New Canadians and immigrants need help with learning and to trusting the system so that they can understand how the system can work for them and this will eliminate the misuse or abuse of it.  We need to teach them essential information about our education system, medical services, courts, policing, governments, and democratic and political systems.

 

3759    They need to become good neighbours and integrate into Canadian life rather than being ghettoised.  They need to get involved in our society and participate more fully in Canadian life and become contributing members of our community at large.

 

3760    They have the right to knowledge without discrimination and need their voice heard in Victoria and Ottawa and should be able to hold our politicians to account.

 

3761    We need to ensure that people who need help know where to get it.  Media like LMtv can be that opportunity for them.  Media can guide and educate the ethnic groups and respond to the needs of the community.

 

3762    There is a need for multilingual, multicultural and multiracial TV programs that will reveal their real and genuine voice, reflect and portray them fairly and accurately, offer them a variety of diversified quality programs.

 

3763    There is a vacuum of interactive cross-cultural, inter-generational, community-responsive and ethno culturally-sensitive communication at this time.  Madam President, so far we see a tunnel at the end of the light and not light at the end of the tunnel.

 

3764    After talking to its management and reviewing their strategic plan, I'm satisfied that they have funding and the resources to carry out the project successfully.  I understand that LMtv will contribute over $80 million.  They have a professional approach.  Roger group has been in multilingual broadcasting for over a quarter century building an inclusive multicultural society.

 

3765    LMtv has the experience of sister stations CFMT and CJNT.  They have pioneered and have been operating CFMT, an award winning multilingual TV station.  Their knowledge and technical and financial resources will make an impact and create synergies from LMtv and CFMT.  They will provide fully digital facilities plus mobile units and news bureaus.

 

3766    I have visited the CFMT studio and their state-of-the-art studio in Toronto.

 

3767    They have close community connections here and they have the ability to conduct research, consult and carry on discussions, sessions and forums to have input from the ethnic communities.  As I understand, LMtv will provide programs in 24 languages to 24 ethno-cultural programs and it will be free.

 

3768    It will provide over 60 hours of locally produced ethnic TV programming each week, of which half will be new and original.  It will offer daily, weekly news and magazine style programming from local, national and international perspectives in many local languages.  Its program schedule will not be brokered to third parties.  And I also know that a community-based advisory board that has already been in place, having eight years of experience, will advise it.

 

3769    I expect that LMtv will provide unique and significant expertise, vision, unwavering commitment, a strong and innovative content and voice.

 

3770    It will create 135 new local jobs.  There will be $30 million direct benefits to the community over seven years.  So it will develop an advertising market for ethnic TVs --

 

3771    THE SECRETARY:  Excuse me, Mr. Grewal, we are past the time.  Could I ask you to wrap up, please.

 

3772    HONOURABLE MR. GREWAL:  So I will conclude that LMtv will stimulate growth and contribute towards development.  It will be uniquely positioned to showcase Greater Vancouver and its people to Canada and to the world.  It can become an incredible resource within the Lower Mainland.  I expect that LMtv should be able to reflect the diversity of the ethnic voice in a fair, balanced and professional manner and be able to meet the present, new and emerging programming needs.

 

3773    And I'm confident, Madam President, that LMtv will not only meet but also exceed the CRTC's policy and regulatory expectations.  This application is in the best interest of the ethnic communities.  It is in the best interest of the general public and the national interest.  It will promote Canadian values, unity and integration of the communities.  It will enhance productivity, prosperity and harmony and economic, social and cultural development; therefore, their application should be approved.

 

3774    I congratulate LMtv for their hard work, persistence and determination to succeed, and I thank you, Madam Chair.

 

3775     

 

3776    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Grewal.  You can hear us? 

 

3777    HONOURABLE MR. GREWAL:  Yes, I can.

 

3778    THE CHAIRPERSON:  We could hear you and your position is quite clear in your support and we have no questions.

 

3779    HONOURABLE MR. GREWAL:  Thank you very much.

 

3780    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Madam Secretary, please.

 

3781    THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  For the record, Catherine Murray will be unable to make her presentation this morning, but I do believe that someone else might be reading her speech for her.  Is there someone in the audience?  No, there appears not to be, so our next presenter will be Raghbir Singh Bains; if I could ask you to come forward, please.

 

3782    MR. BAINS:  Good morning, Madam Chairperson and Commission members.  Before I submit the presentation, I would seek your permission to introduce my colleagues who are with me here. 

 

3783    Here is Mr. Jawanda.  He got his education in England, and he is working with West Coast Cylinders.  He's a committee member on Khalsa Diwan Society, on Ross Street Vancouver, which is the first Sikh Society in Canada. 

 

3784    He had the privilege to work as a national president of the World Sikh Organization from 1993 to '97.  These days, he's Chairperson of Singh Sabha Gurdudwara in Surrey, and he's very much active in the community. 

 

3785    Next is Jaspindeer Singh Brar.  He started his career in CN Railway as a labourer, but thereafter he was elected, and elevated to different posts, and he was a Chairperson of the CN Railway Employees' Union.  He is these days director of CN Railway Pension Board, and now he's director on the board of Five River Society of British Columbia also.

 

3786    With me next is Sadhu Singh Nijjar. He is rep from different societies and institutions.  Sadhu Singh Nijjar is President, Dasmesh Darbar Sikh Gurdwara, Surrey in British Columbia.  He has been treasurer of Guru Nanak Sikh Temple, Surrey, also.  So, as a president of the Dasmesh Darbar Sikh Gurdwara, he organizes Sikh parades every year, and almost more than 70,000 people are in attendance in those parades. 

 

3787    My next colleague is Principal Gian Singh Kotli.  He is literary person.  He worked as a principal, then a priest at Khalsa Diwan Society, Vancouver.  He is a known writer in the Sikh world. 

 

3788    And my next colleague is Ajaib Singh Sidhu.  He did his M.A. in History in Punjabi, diploma in Comparative Religions.  He's chief editor of Des Pardes newspaper, which is published in Surrey.  He is General Secretary of the Punjabi Bazaar Association, Surrey, Delta.

 

3789    And about me, my name is Raghbir Singh Bains, and I'm author of the Encyclopaedia of Sikhism.  That is the first multimedia encyclopaedia of its kind in the world.  I have got the privilege to work on so many advisory committees in this land of Canada.

 

3790    So my submission today is that we are here to support LMtv and to represent the case of Sikh culture and growth of Punjabi language in Lower Mainland.

 

3791    We are Sikhs, Your Honour.  The  majority of us migrated from Punjab, a progressive province of India.  Our population in the Lower Mainland region is around 150,000.  We have a distinct and unique culture. 

 

3792    Our spiritual philosophy is unparalleled.  The places of our worship are universal and open to everybody, irrespective of caste, colour and creed.  Our history is more than five centuries old.  Sikh heritage is really exceptional.  Our dress - as you might see that we are wearing, my friend is wearing a kortebjama - our dress, ceremonies, customs and traditions are distinct.  The Articles of Sikh faith are unique.  Our mother tongue is Punjabi and we are proud of it.  When I was a child, Your Honour, my mother used to sing me lullabies in Punjabi so that I could enjoy a sound sleep.

 

3793    Respected Commission members, still we have a long way to educate the television media as to who the Sikhs are in fact.  Respectable members of the Commission, we are not here to ask for special treatment, but we are here to ask for fair and square treatment by the television media in this multicultural and multilingual land of Canada.

 

3794    The Sikhs are in Canada for the last more than 100 years.  With sweat on our brow, we worked hard to bring honours to Canada and Canadian society.  We are proud of our achievements, and many a times we feel offended when we are shouted as "Paakies" and with other names.  We do not know whether it is a misconception or otherwise.

 

3795    To coerce women is not the code of our conduct.  Marriage in our culture is a sacred tie.  More than 500 years back our gurus strongly stood for human liberty, equality and fraternity.  We believe in universal brotherhood, universal peace and prosperity.  We daily pray for welfare of entire universe.  Have all these human values been ever highlighted on television in Canada?  No, not at all.  We want somebody to run our true and factual stories on TV media.  Keeping in view the past history of CFMT-TV, we feel that LMtv will continue to serve the minority cultures in their linguistic set-up.

 

3796    Respected Commission members, 100 years ago when our forefathers migrated to Canada, we were suffering from language and cultural barriers, although it's not today.  We were under the impression that television media would provide us with opportunities to grow culturally.  It would portray the values of our culture, language, traditions and freedom of our religious mores.  But alas, Madam Chairperson, it has been a dream unrealized.

 

3797    The present TV media has not so far been able to acquaint dominant Canadians about our identity, whether we the turbaned Sikhs belong to Sikh culture, Sikh religion, or if we belong to some other faith.  We are unique Canadians.  Sikh culture is unique.  I'm a baptized Sikh.  I am wearing a Kirpan on my body also.  This is an article of my faith. 

 

3798    Media has not been successful in one century to acquaint the Canadians so far that Kirpan is an article of Sikh faith.  Some ignorant people shout at our traditional dresses.  Some of us are wearing traditional dresses also.  Perhaps they don't get the right information from television media. 

 

3799    We cannot reach each and every Canadian to explain the articles of Sikh faith, our ceremonies, customs and traditions that we love the most.  Canada is our home, and we value this beautiful land.  Sometimes we are named East Indians, sometimes we are named Indo-Canadians, and sometimes by other names also.  Media is not right, Your Honour, to term anybody as fundamentalist, moderate, Indo-Canadian or East Indian.  This is something to do with lack of cultural sensitivity, Your Honour.  We are simply Canadians and Canadians only. 

 

3800    We have been yearning for years for somebody to listen to our story.  We understand the LMtv has a team of professionals, culturally sensitive and experienced people.  We are sure that LMtv will deal with us on equal basis, and we would be able to watch our stories in their right perspective through LMtv.

 

3801    It is unfortunate that the Sikh youth are ignored on Canadian TV.  Issues of Sikh women and especially seniors have always been relegated behind.  Respected members, every community has its own issues.  We, the Sikhs have our language heritage and social issues.  These issues should be addressed by making the Sikh people as part of the solution, sensitively under the desired cultural situations.  We feel bad when Sikh culture is projected to our youth as prideless culture.  Sorry women are shown being oppressed and suppressed on television.  Madam Chairperson, sorry to say most of the media makes mockery of the minority cultures and tells negative stories.

 

3802    Please understand, Commission members, when language, culture, and value system of a person is snatched away from him or her, he or she will be forced to live in a vacuum, and that vacuum is sure to create confusion which is not in the best interest of the community itself, and the country at large.  We feel that every person should have freedom to practice his or her culture, thus adding to the prosperity of Canadian multicultural and multilingual fabric.  Who will fill this vacuum?  Only experienced professionals with vision can fulfil the vacuum and we think that is LMtv.

 

3803    Many a times, Sikh cultural stories are concocted, distorted, maligned, polluted and mistold.  We need a true storyteller without bias, and for that reason, we rely on professionalism of LMtv that will be having expert staff capable of running sensitive cultural stories of the Sikh community.

 

3804    We see Mobina Jaffer as Chairperson of LMtv Advisory Board, and T. Sher Singh, a well-known Sikh involved at a high level.  They are balanced in their outlook, which is in the larger interest of Canada and the ethnic communities.

 

3805    No doubt we get daily news from India in Punjabi and Indian languages, but here in Canada we deserve the latest news and stories concerning Sikh community.  LMtv is sure to fill the gap by using their long experience and expertise in multicultural programming.

 

3806    Madam Chairperson, ours is a rich culture.  We have produced great politicians, ministers, reformers, judges, mathematicians, doctors, writers and lawyers to add into the prosperity of Canada.  We have the right to get fair share of TV for broadcasting true stories of our culture in Punjabi language.  Respected members, when off-the-beam stories about Sikhs are shown on TV, we do not have ways and means to bring truth before the public.

 

3807    Whom should we look for telling our success stories?  Sikh community believes that LMtv can broadcast true stories of our community because LMtv has a cultural vision for minorities.

 

3808    We feel that LMtv is financially capable to produce quality programs for the multicultural and multilingual minorities in the Lower Mainland.  LMtv has a mandate to create jobs for journalists, producers, anchors and TV crews for all the communities, irrespective of their back home country and colour.

 

3809    LMtv has vision to build bridges for mutual understanding between different communities.  LMtv has national experience and vision for national unity.  It is capable to inform and enlighten people of different cultures on different issues.

 

3810    LMtv has a social and cultural vision for diverse communities.  Its mandate is to spend more than 75 hours for multilingual and multicultural programming per week, backed by CFMT television.

 

3811    Keeping in view the merits, we strongly support licensing for LMtv.  LMtv program will be our program.  So thank you very much once again, Commission members, for giving us a patient hearing.  Thank you.

 

3812    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you to you, Mr. Bains and to your colleagues to have had the patience to all come in numbers to our hearing this morning.  We appreciate the interest.

 

3813    MR. BAINS:  So that we don't waste your time that's the reason that we put all the efforts in one, and just --

 

3814    THE CHAIRPERSON:  And you were the mastermind behind collecting all these people --

 

3815    MR. BAINS:  Yes.  No, everybody is mastermind.

 

3816    THE CHAIRPERSON:  -- at the right hour?

 

3817    MR. BAINS:  It's not exactly LMtv.  It's our mastermind.

 

3818    THE CHAIRPERSON:  It's you.

 

3819    MR. BAINS:  It's our mastermind.

 

3820    THE CHAIRPERSON:  It's you, Mr. Bains.  Well, you were here before Commissioner Cardozo this morning.

 

3821    MR. BAINS:  Pardon?

 

3822    THE CHAIRPERSON:  We had to wait for him for 10 minutes, but I see your people were there on time so congratulations to you.

 

3823    MR. BAINS:  So thank you very much.

 

3824    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.  Madam Secretary, please.

 

3825    THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  Just for the record, we are doing a little bit of bouncing around in the order, in order to accommodate people whose schedules are a little bit tight.  So our next presenter to be called will be Prem Vinning.  Would you like to come forward, please?

 

3826    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Welcome to our hearing.

 

3827    THE SECRETARY:  Please begin whenever you are ready.

 

3828    MR. VINNING:  Good morning, Madam Chair, and Commissioners.  My name is Prem Vinning, and I am a proud Canadian, who emigrated to England from India with my parents at age 7.  This is my wife, Jagir Vinning.  She nearly chickened out on me.

 

3829    THE CHAIRPERSON:  You had to show you had as much authority as Mr. Baines.

 

3830    MR. VINNING:  Well, in our household, that is true to a certain point.

 

3831    THE CHAIRPERSON:  That's what he told us.

 

3832    MR. VINNING:  Times have changed.  I was raised and educated in England, and graduated with Honours as a Rolls Royce engineering machinist.  I came to Canada in 1976 to join my brothers, working up from the green chains to becoming a director of Chakmire Forest Products group of companies, a forest products business with customers throughout the world.  I have been happily married to my wife, Jagir, for 21 years, and we have four children.  Our two daughters are in University, with our two sons in French Immersion, high school.  My 100-year-old auntie also lives with us in our home in Surrey.  I am also a founding member of the Khalsa Credit Union, now with five branches throughout the Lower Mainland.

 

3833    Since 1977 to the present, our late father, and my brothers and I built Sikh temples throughout British Columbia, contributing our form of sweat equity.  To the 16 communities we volunteered our labour and provided the expertise. 

 

3834    My involvement in the larger community is also extensive.  I have served the community of youth in B.C. as a councillor.  I will try to keep my involvement to the Sikh community for this presentation.

 

3835    I have travelled this province from one end to the other, many, many, many times.  I have worked with, and know the Sikh community at the grassroots level.  I am here today in support of LMtv because I believe it is the best applicant to deliver ethnic television in Vancouver.  LMtv has experience in multilingual television broadcasting, and they propose to work on, and strengthen, national unity.  Only the LMtv folks have a strong social vision for building acceptance and advancing multiculturism within Vancouver and Canada's diverse community.  Only LMtv has consistently, and respectfully, reached out to work with the community to create a TV station that can be ours.  Canadian ownership is what is important; local ownership is too limiting.  Minority communities from Victoria to Toronto, want, and need to know, about sister communities.  This is something a local station cannot accomplish.  A station needs to showcase a community in a professional way.  It also needs to talk about issues and challenges minority communities face.

 

3836    The major problems facing South Asian and Punjabi communities today is illicit drugs, alcohol abuse, and prostitution.  Ten to 15 years ago, these issues were unheard of in my community.  These issues need to be talked about in order to engage the community in serious discussion, leading to resolution. This is how LMtv can reach out to work with the community to provide in-depth coverage of such matters.

 

3837    The larger media, the mainstream media, picks up these stories, and you will see a story in the Vancouver Sun front page, and that is the end of it, and you will see it on the six o'clock BC TV News, and that will be the end of it.  There needs to be more depth where the community needs to get involved.  I heard Justice Wally Oppal speak, and how these things need to interact. 

 

3838    I believe LMtv is in a perfect position to provide the level and quality of service that ethnic communities need.  LMtv is big enough with the resources to provide a high standard of programming.  Perhaps even more importantly, they are big and experienced enough to understand, and withstand, and I underline withstand, the pressures of internal ethnic politics inherent to ethnic groups. 

 

3839    As a businessman, I understand the importance of a proven track record, and I see it in this new ethnic TV station that has national experience and national vision.  For three decades, Rogers has delivered multilingual/multicultural television broadcasting in Canada.  It was a social vision put into practise that resulted in a much expanded role for multiculturism in this country.  It's been Rogers alone who has committed to providing service to ethnic communities.  I am confident that LMtv is capable of actually doing what they say.  They will do it because they have had eight years of consultation with my community.  

 

3840    You know the horrors of Golden Temple, Indian, the Tiannamen Square in China, and the slaughter of 800,000 Rwandans seemed very much in the distant past.  But that was until the event of September 11^th, that touched my family, our family, and particularly our daughters.  It was in our backyard.  It happened to a society that they are part of, and that they relate to.  My daughters, especially, experienced overt racism for the first time in their lives.  My children had the opportunity to participate in the larger community at various levels, and to give an example of that, on her 16^th birthday she had the wonderful opportunity to have tea with the Prime Minister and his wife at 24 Sussex.  And the September 11^th event was something that I cannot -- I don't have words to express to you, that what that did to my two daughters and our family.

 

3841    Indeed, after receiving many calls from the community on the late evening of September 13^th, I was forced to put a call into the mayor of Surrey to have him call the Surrey RCMP superintendent to explain a serious, and possibly, explosive situation that was developing at Khalsa School; youth with, who knows what intention they had in mind, they were milling about and causing fear in the community.  It brought home the serious nature of racism in our own backyard. 

 

3842    I am convinced that thoughtful, thought-provoking programming to deal with such issues is lacking in our community, and I am convinced it is a void that LMtv can fill by drawing from their experiences in quality multilingual/multicultural programming.

 

3843    I submit to you that it is only through cross-cultural dialogue, such as would be available through this very powerful television medium, that understanding will begin to overcome such fears in this community.

 

3844    In closing, let me emphasize that local ownership would be too restrictive.  Canadian ownership is important to make the connection between communities located from Victoria to Toronto, and I urge you to choose LMtv as the applicant that will best serve the interests of minority ethnic groups. 

 

3845    Thank you for the opportunity to make this presentation.

 

3846    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much, Mr. and Mrs. Vinning, and please give our best wishes to your daughters.

 

3847    Madam Secretary, please.

 

3848    THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  Our next presenter will be May Brown.  Would you like to come forward, please.

 

3849    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good morning, Ms. Brown.

 

3850    MS. BROWN:  Madam Chair, and Commissioners, my name is May Brown.  Thank you for giving me the opportunity to make a short presentation on the issue of licensing a multilingual television station in the Lower Mainland and Victoria areas of British Columbia.

 

3851    May I take a minute or two to give you some background on myself.  I do this only because I think it has some relevance in this particular situation.  I'm a long-time resident of the area.  I was elected to the Vancouver Parks Board, and later to Vancouver City Council.  I served a total of 12 years in these positions.  I also served on the Board of Directors of the Greater Vancouver Regional District, which includes the many cities and municipalities of the Lower Mainland.

 

3852    As a director of the GVRD for eight years, I also worked on a number of committees for the area, including planning and hospitals.  I've been active on many boards and commissions throughout our province, including the Vancouver YWCA Board, and International Affairs Committee, St. Paul's Hospital Board, the Art Gallery, the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra.  I served on the B.C. Press Council for six years; associated with the Dr. Sun Yat-Sen Garden Society.  When the city was giving a good deal of assistance to our large Canadian Chinese community to establish cultural facilities, I represented City Council all through the early stages in that initiative. 

 

3853    I currently serve on the Board of the Minerva Foundation for B.C. Women, and at the federal level, on the Ministerial Advisory Committee on the Selection of Members of the Immigration and Refugee Board.  I would also mention that I have been honoured to be appointed as a member of the Order of Canada, the Order of British Columbia, and have been given the Freedom of the City by Vancouver City Council.

 

3854    I feel I know our city and province well, and have a feel for the issues we face.  In awarding the multilingual television license to this area is of great importance to this community.  After studying many aspects of this issue, I believe that LMtv is the group most capable of making a success of this project. 

 

3855    Education and awareness of racial intolerance must continue to be given emphasis on an ongoing basis.  Complacency must not be allowed to take over our way of life.  The September 11^th bombings, and the backlash against certain ethnic groups has shocked us all, and has strengthened our resolve in this matter.

 

3856    An incident I experienced many years ago has stayed with me over the years, as it made such an impression on me.  I was brought up in Surrey, one of our neighbouring municipalities.  Our community was about 50 percent Japanese/Canadian, our friends and neighbours.   In 1942, I was teaching in one of the local schools.  Word came down that all Japanese Canadians were to be evacuated from the Coast.  Families were given 48 hours' notice and told they could take one suitcase each.  These students were Canadians; they were born in Canada.  Yes, we were at war, but this group was singled out because they were a visible minority and could be identified by the colour of their skin. 

 

3857    The trauma caused by these events was so significant, we must not let it happen again.  Television is a powerful tool in today's society.  It can be very effective, or just marginally so.  Good, well-resourced programming can be educational, as well as entertaining.   We must be sure that we don't miss out on an opportunity to use television programming to promote better understanding between all people, young and old.  I'm sure you're aware that the Vancouver area has become a very diverse community.  With projections that Canada will continue to maintain at least the current level of immigration, we can expect our ethnic communities to grow in numbers.

 

3858    Naturally, in this province, the Lower Mainland and Victoria, attract many new Canadians because we have friends and relatives here, and more services are provided.

 

3859    Our communities, to date, have been quite successful in promoting good relations amongst all ethnic groups.  The multicultural nature of these areas has truly enriched the social and cultural life of British Columbia, however, this harmony doesn't just happen.  It takes continual effort and planning - yes, long-term planning.  Consultation with the community is important, discussions with various groups gives insight to the issues.  Thoughtful programming, built on experience and know-how, is key. 

 

3860    Over the past eight years, LMtv has been doing this type of planning.  They have been meeting with groups and listening.  Their proposal has changed as they have learned from the community what the needs really are.  LMtv has committed 80 million dollars to program expenditures and community benefits. With the necessary resources, they will produce sound, well thought-out programs of high quality, to reach 24 different groups.

 

3861    It is so important to have the resources to produce quality programming.  We have heard complaints for years that the quality of the technical aspects of multicultural television is inferior, and therefore, portrays ethnic groups as second-class citizens.  The necessary funds are required for staff training, for first-class equipment and facilities, and facilities to obtain new, relevant information and news. 

 

3862    In putting the programs together, one needs to know the different cultures; know the sensitivities involved, and know the challenges faced by the different groups.  To program and operate a station that will offer consistent, high-value programming for 24 groups is a major undertaking.  Experience and resources will be the key.  I believe LMtv plans show they can be successful in this regard.  They are allocating the resources, and they have the experience.

 

3863    The last point I would like to make is the issue of ownership.   LMtv will be Canadian owned.  To me, that is the only issue in regard to this topic.  Personally, I don't want to think provincially.  That is too narrow a view when it comes to communications.  I would like this new television organization to have a national social vision, with bureaus in the Asia-Pacific region, in Ottawa, in Vancouver.  As well as offices in Vancouver, LMtv will be in a position to bring up-to-date information from a wide area.

 

3864    I'm sure we all agree that a new multilingual television station in this area would add a great deal to the cross-cultural work already being done.  I believe LMtv will do an excellent job, if given the opportunity, and I trust you will give them your consideration.  Thank you very much.

 

3865    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much, Ms. Brown.  We appreciate our appearance at our hearing.

 

3866    Madam Secretary, please.

 

3867    THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  Our next presenter is Po-Ping Au Yeung.  Can I ask you to come forward, please. 

 

3868    MS. YEUNG:  Good morning, Madam Chair, and member of the Commissioner.  I am here in support of the application presented by LMtv.  My name is Po-Ping Au Yeung.  I am a producer and a casting director who has been working in the film and TV industry for over 20 years.  About a year and a half ago, I optioned a Canadian bestseller, Concubines Children, by Denise Chong.  The book was based on the compelling true story of a grandmother's struggle for survival in Vancouver's Chinatown in the 20's.  The book was short-listed for the Governor-General's Award, and it won the City of Vancouver Book Prize.  Because of its historical and cultural significance, it is also a required textbook for many colleges and universities in Canada and in the U.S.

 

3869    For three years, I was in competition with some big names in Ontario and in B.C. for the rights to option the book in order to adapt it for the screen.  After months of negotiations the author decided to give me a chance because she was excited that I wanted to do the movie in Chinese mainly.  I told her that the dialogue, when delivered in Chinese, would bear the distinctive nuances of style and flavour or Chinese culture and life in Chinatown in the 20's.  She agreed, and that began my labour of love for the last year and half, and what a struggle it has been. After spending a lot of time, and my own money, I am still unable to get funding to develop a script.  There isn't a film company, funding agency, or broadcaster in town, and possibly in the country, that has the commitment, the courage, or the mandate, to fund this project, because it is a Chinese language picture, but this is a Canadian story written in English.

 

3870    The book has already been proven to be very successful among non-Asian and second generation Chinese Canadians, however, very few new immigrants even know it, because some of them can't read English well enough.  They have had little interest, because most of them have no, or very little understanding about the hardships that early Chinese immigrants had to endure. 

 

3871    We have the responsibility to tell them the story; to tell them how difficult life was for early Chinese immigrants.  Six months ago I relinquished option on another Canadian film called the Supreme Moon Café by Skye Li.  This book was also a Canadian Chinatown story, short-listed for the Governor-General's aware in 1990.  I have one and half years left on my option on Concubine, and I will fight to the very end to develop it.  There are companies in China and in Hong Kong who are interested in co-producing with me, but no one there will commit until they see a script.  If LMtv is awarded the license, it will be the only broadcaster that will have the courage and the financial commitment to help me to develop my script.

 

3872    My story has a home on LMtv.  You see, I have a very expensive hobby:  optioning unique human interest stories that are hard to get financing to develop.  But they are Canadian stories that I am passionate about.  That's what I do for my soul. 

 

3873    For money, I work as a casting director for film and for TV commercials.  Though I  don't do Asian casting exclusively, I do get calls from Hollywood, and even from Hong Kong, when they need Asian actors because they know Vancouver is the place to look.  I have done Asian casting in Vancouver on films such as Taipan, directed by Vancouver's Daryl Duke, The Last Emperor, by Bernardo Bertolucci, and Steven Spielberg's yet to be made, "Memoirs of a Geisha", which I received over 1,200 submission in B.C. for one 16-year-old Japanese female role.  Of course, most of them were not professional actors, but it tells me that there are 1,200 young Asian girls out there who want to be seen and heard.

 

3874    For Lethal Weapon 4, I suggested to Warner Brothers, an actor from Hong Kong who now lives in Vancouver, and he got the part over all the actors who auditioned in Hollywood. 

 

3875    Sometimes I also line produce movies shooting in B.C., and they are from Hong Kong, so I speak with knowledge and confidence about the Asian/Canadian film and TV community we have in B.C.  Though unknown to most, there are many, many A-list actors, cameramen, make-up artists, writers, and directors from Hong Kong and other parts of Asia living in B.C.

 

3876    Three years ago I compiled the Asia-Canada creative directory for Telefilm Canada, listing most of the Asian-Canadian film and TV professionals in this country.  You can check it out; it's on the Telefilm website.  Many of them have turned to other types of work now, and are still struggling to find a job in the industry.  They are dedicated professionals, and they want to work on high-quality productions that showcase their talent.

 

3877    I am also the past vice-president and a current member of the Asian Canadian Writers' Workshop, a national organization with 450 members nationally, with 350 members in B.C., including Denise Chong, and Reson Choi from Ontario, Skye Li, Evelyn Lau, to name a few from Vancouver.  Believe me, there is a huge, untapped Asian/Canadian talent pool in this province, both in front and behind the camera, both creatively and technically, in documentaries and in dramas, they have been waiting for far to long for a platform to share their vision.  They, too, need a home on LMtv. 

 

3878    We don't want to put our faces on camera to talk about Kung Fu or how to mix sweet and sour pork anymore.  We have come a long way, and don't take us back, please.  We have wonderful stories to share within our own communities and with the rest of our country.  What we have to say is important.  We do not want tokenism. 

 

3879    The other applicant has never talked to me, or to Colin Laurel, a well-respected Chinese/Canadian broadcast journalist, and a filmmaker whose documentary is opening the Asian film festival here in November.  Or have they talked to Tan Sham, a Chinese/Canadian film and documentary producer, whose documentary is getting a Gemini this year.  This is amazing.  Since we are the very few bilingual Chinese/Canadian producers and filmmakers in Vancouver who work in both the multicultural field and in the mainstream, so how important is it that they are locally owned when they are not even interested in, or aware of their own local resources.

 

3880    In my opinion, local ownership should not be the overriding consideration in these proceedings.  If we are going to have a multilingual TV station here in Vancouver, let's do it right.  I have two proposals.  By far, LMtv is much more superior in terms of the track record, the financial commitment, and their experience in multilingual TV broadcasting.

 

3881    I am most impressed with the independent producer's initiatives.  The financial commitment to project development, for third language programming, is unavailable anywhere else in this country.  Their commitment is long-term, and it's here to stay to serve the best interests of the local community by nurturing local talent and developing local stories and issues that are challenging, or regional or provocative.

 

3882    Even then LMtv's ownership is not based in this province, the hands-on management is deeply rooted in this province.  I believe that LMtv is committed to local production of high-quality programming in third languages. 

 

3883    What is important for me is not where you have your headquarters, but where you have your heartquarters, and where you have made your commitment in terms of spending, and how dedicated you are to reflecting the local community and including it in your programming decisions.  For me, clearly, there is only one choice, and that is LMtv.  Thank you.

 

3884    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Ms. Yeung.  Commissioner Cardozo, please.

 

3885    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Thank you very much, Ms. Yeung.  I just have a question for you.  It's quite a delight to have you here.  I know the Concubine's Children, the book very well, and I also happen to live in the same neighbourhood as Denise Chong, so I --

 

3886    MS. YEUNG:  In Ottawa?

 

3887    COMMISSIONER CARDOZA:  In Ottawa.  So I will have something to show off to her when I see her next, and tell her I met her.

 

3888    MS. YEUNG:  I've got to pay her some money.

 

3889    COMMISSIONER CARDOZA:  I won't go into detail.

 

3890    MS. YEUNG:  I'm two weeks late paying her.

 

3891    THE CHAIRPERSON:   You never know what comes up.

 

3892    COMMISSIONER CARDOZA:  I hear what you have to say, very clearly, about the funding that LMtv has offered for third language, and also the other attributes that you've described, and you've put that forward very powerfully.  I want to ask you about the larger systemic question, though, that you've raised, which is the funding of third language film.  This is a chronic problem, and I think, as you've indicated, we're talking Canadian film production; it happens to be third language, but it's about Canadians, about Canadian stories.  And I'm just wondering if you have had discussions - I guess you have - discussions, with other funding agencies, whether federal, provincial, or private sector?

 

3893    MS. YEUNG:  Yes, Telefilm, B.C. Film, they do not fund third language productions; only French, English or Aboriginal languages.  There's nowhere to go, absolutely nowhere.  And LMtv would be the only place for people like me, and like, all these wonderful stories - I don't know whether you guys have read this book, this is just beautiful - Disappearing Moon Café - I just lost it two months ago -- two or three months ago, because I could no longer keep paying the option on something nobody would give me the money to do.

 

3894    COMMISSIONER CARDOZA:  Well, I thank you for raising the issue of the funding, especially from you, who is an accomplished filmmaker. I appreciate you coming here.

 

3895    MS. YEUNG:  Thank you.

 

3896    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.  I think we will break for lunch, and we will resume at 1:20.

 

‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1225 / Suspension à 1225

 

‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1330 / Reprise à 1330

 

3897    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Madam Secretary, please. 

 

3898    THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  Our next intervener today is Raj Paul Dhillon.  Please go ahead whenever you're ready.

 

3899    MR. DHILLON:  Good afternoon, Madam Chair, and Commissioners.  My name is Raj Paul Dhillon, and I'm a journalist, writer and television producer from the South Asian community in Vancouver.  I am here to support the LMtv's application for a new commercial multicultural, multilingual television station.

 

3900    A little bit about my background.  After graduating from Simon Fraser University in 1992 with a degree in Communications and Filmmaking, I began working for a South Asian/Indo-Canadian newspaper called The Link.  At the time, the newspaper carried very little news from the local community and served the function of being a bridge between the homeland and the community here.  But that was not my experience.  I was not interested in reading the news from back, which in many ways was irrelevant to my existence here.  I wanted to know what was happening in the community locally.  Essentially, I wanted to tell the stories of our people here, so that we, as a community, could move from being immigrants to a new land to being full-fledged Canadians with their own distinct voice and culture.  By doing so, we would be actively contributing to the multicultural fabric of Canada, and at that same time, celebrating who we were in this great Canadian mosaic.  So it began slowly with the coverage of local news, but soon I began profiling the personalities who made the local South Asian community tick.  Over the years, as the media has developed in the community, it has helped propel South Asians of diverse background, language, religion and culture to the political, business, professional, trade, sports and arts spheres.  We have been telling our stories while on this micro-media level in Canadian society.  But we are now ready to take our stories to the next level, which is the medium of television.  They say that television is the most powerful modern medium of communication.

 

3901    The challenges for this new medium remain the same as those that I faced almost a decade ago:  How do we move from the current environment of multicultural television, which primarily shows musical and other entertainment programming from the homeland, to telling our unique stories from the community's rich fabric here in Canada?  Well, the first thing we have to do is to make sure the people who are going to be in charge of running the station know what they're doing so that they will work effectively with South Asian community producers to tell our stories in the most professional, creative and awe-inspiring way.

 

3902    Professional South Asian producers have long been seeking a television station which can act as an avenue for their creative expression; a professionally run station where they can see and tell their own stories in their own native language here in Canada. 

 

3903    I attended the first ever meeting that Rogers held more than eight years ago at the Pan Pacific Hotel.  At the time, I was just out of the university and their proposal to start a commercial multicultural station really appealed to me.  The community multicultural station that Rogers operated at the time was not doing an effective job of telling local stories.  The South Asian programming on the station was dominated by one producer, and the program was not up to par because of the financial limitations, and really a lack of creative local programming.  So I dearly welcomed this new proposal at the time, which would, in fact, be similar to CBC or BCTV and would offer professionally-produced local programming for the community.  However, that station did not materialize for whatever reason, and probably set ethnic producers back a decade.  So I feel very encouraged to know that the CRTC will be licensing a multicultural station this time around, hopefully.

 

3904    I believe that that station should be LMtv because they have the expertise, experience and financial clout to run a professional television station and make it a success.  As an ethnic producer who is having to scrap together miniscule leftover funding from agencies like Telefilm Canada, after they have finished emptying their coffers to the largely white establishment, it is heartening to know that if licensed, LMtv will be injecting a very significant amount of cash into multicultural/multilingual production.

 

3905    LMtv has proposed to spend $80 million in their various initiatives to ensure that B.C.'s ethnic communities get a "world class quality" television station.  I believe their total over a seven-year license period is more than $228 million.  The best news for ethnic producers is that they are proposing to create a $27 million B.C. producers initiative that will give ethnic producers, like myself, the resources they need to create original programming aimed at their linguistic and cultural groups. 

 

3906    As part of this $27 million package is a $4 million development fund.  This is truly groundbreaking because ethnic producers have never had this kind of funding available to them for the production of third-language programming.  And it is also encouraging because, hopefully, Telefilm, and other funding agencies at the provincial and federal level will recognize this and begin infusing much needed cash into the productions that will come about if LMtv is licensed.  All this money translates into more local content.  In fact, LMtv's monetary commitment means that they will provide 20 percent more local content than their competitor Multivan, which is claiming to be local, but has very little in the way of solid local programming. 

 

3907    I would like to point out that I have reviewed both proposals thoroughly, and only then made my decision to support LMtv.  In fact, it is my opinion that the LMtv's proposal outranks Multivan on so many levels there is really no comparison.  We're talking apples and oranges here, dear panel.  But even if we put aside the monetary commitment, there is no denying that LMtv has done a great vast amount of outreach work in the ethnic communities, including the South Asian community.  They have consulted many prominent community members, and have asked for and taken their input in designing their latest proposal, which, among other things, makes South Asian community the third major linguistic and cultural group after Mandarin and Cantonese that LMtv will focus on.

 

3908    The South Asian community is proud to have people like Mobina Jaffer, who is a well-known local member, as well as a senator now, as part of LMtv's board, which assures the community that the station will deliver on its promises.

 

3909    On the other hand, Multivan has done very little South Asian community consultations and has totally ignored the Punjabi community in Surrey, which now numbers more than 60,000 people of South Asian descent, making it the municipality's dominant ethnic group.  Multivan has chosen people to be on their board who have little, or no connection to the South Asian community, which goes against their claim of being "local." 

 

3910    I'm backing LMtv because it is the best proposal for the South Asian community, based on their track record, resources, and successful existing multicultural television operations in Toronto.

 

3911    Multivan is simply pushing "local ownership" without showing it will be able to provide the kind of quality and professional programming we currently lack.  At one of its meetings that I attended, Multivan officials bragged about putting local ethnic dance shows on their station.  If that is what constitutes programming on their station, then they have failed to grasp the purpose of this new multicultural station licence.

 

3912    Anyone who watches TV, or the local community multicultural station will tell you that if it's dance you want, it is already in huge supply on the local CHUM affiliate and any number of dance shows on Shaw's multicultural channel.  But LMtv seeks to take us beyond the dance and into the new realm of programming, which for the South Asian community, will include a daily Punjabi language news broadcast, as well as a magazine format, educational and entertainment programming. 

 

3913    I have faith in Roger's long history and their more than 20-year operation of Toronto-based CFMT, and their more than 20-year operation of Toronto-based CFMT tells me that they are committed on a long-term basis.  Their advisory committee and their investment, which is now in the millions, would convince even the die-hard sceptic that they are committed to serving the local ethnic communities and bringing unique programming that caters to their needs.

 

3914    Speaking as a South Asian producer, my choice is clear:  LMtv is the only one.  Thank you, dear Madam.

 

3915    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Dhillon.  Your position is clear and we have no questions for you.

 

3916    MR. DHILLON:  Yes.  Thank you.

 

3917    THE CHAIRPERSON:  But thank you for coming and being part of our proceeding. 

 

3918    Madam Secretary, please. 

 

3919    MADAM SECRETARY:  My next intervener is Hanny Hassan.  Would you come forward, please. 

 

3920    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Welcome, Mr. Hassan.

 

3921    MR. HASSAN:  Thank you, Madam Chair, Commissioners.  Good afternoon.  I appreciate the opportunity to make this brief oral submission to support LMtv's application for a multilingual station in Vancouver.

 

3922    To provide a context for my presentation, I would like to provide you a brief overview of my background.  By profession, I'm a consulting engineer, however, I have what amounts to be a parallel career in the voluntary sector.  My voluntary involvement has included work within my own ethnocultural and faith community, work within my professional and business associations, extensive work in the equity and multicultural sectors, and considerable participation in cross-cultural and inter-faith initiatives.  I am the current president of the Council of the Muslim Community of Canada, whose main major long-term programs have included working towards accurate and balanced portrayal of Canadian Muslims, a national liaison with the leadership of the mainline Christian Churches of Canada, and participation in the Canadian Ethnocultural Council. 

 

3923    Our vice-president, Aziz Khaki has been very involved in the multicultural and equity issues in the Vancouver area for many years, and Aziz would have joined in my presentation, however, because of time constraints of these hearings, I will be making the presentation alone. 

 

3924    As past-president of the Ontario Advisory Council of Multiculturalism and Citizenship, I was involved in the formulation of Government of Ontario policy in the areas of multiculturalism and citizenship.  Several years ago, an initiative of the advisory council was to provide a forum for non-Christian faith communities to discuss and act on the CRTC's call for proposals for a religion station, a religion television service which ultimately resulted in Vision TV. 

 

3925    I guess, in addition to that, I have a tenuous connection to the Vancouver scene.  I do have a personal interest in the diversity and broadcasting in this area because my son's family, including two young granddaughters, live here, and I am a frequent visitor, and in fact, one of the reasons I'm here this week is to visit my family.

 

3926    In my written submission to the CRTC I've provided some arguments in support of multicultural, multilingual, over-the-air television services in Vancouver.  These arguments included the Government of Canada's commitment to multiculturalism, both through legislation and program support, the ongoing demographic changes in Canada, and especially Vancouver's population, CRTC's written policy of supporting "a wide range of programming reflecting the linguistic duality and multicultural and multiracial nature of Canadian society."  Based on my understand of CRTC's current position, I believe that the CRTC is inclined to grant a licence in Vancouver for a multilingual television station, provided that one of the applications meets your basic criteria.

 

3927    I have taken the time to read the submissions by both applicants and have been present for most of these present hearings.  From my perspective, the submission by LMtv is the best proposal, and I'd like to spend my remaining time briefly explaining why I believe that is the case. 

 

3928    In addition to the multilingual aspects of the station that is being proposed for Vancouver, I believe that significant emphasis needs to be placed on multiculturalism in its contemporary vision.  I have five points that I would like to highlight.  First, in reflecting the views of a sparsely-distributed community across Canada, and we've heard earlier today that those communities are going to be poorly serviced by local stations, I believe that it is essential that programming that is produced in one area be available in other areas of the country.  Small communities will not have the human or financial resources, nor, in fact, the massive support of advertising to assist with high-quality programming in all major urban centres.  In Vancouver, for example, the Arab community is a very small one.  LMtv would be able to draw on those resources in Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa, where there are significant numbers of Arabs, for producing programs in Vancouver.  In addition, there needs to be an opportunity for dialogue and discourse between the various communities and components of each ethnocultural community, whether separated by geography, or by ideology or perspective. 

 

3929    Secondly, I believe that it is essential that the television service that is licensed in Vancouver provide support for the development of human resources, programming and production within the multicultural communities.  This is particularly acute now since government, both federal and provincial, has virtually withdrawn its financial support for multicultural programs.  The additional funding that LMtv proposes for the Independent Producers' Initiative, Community Grants Initiative, the Broadcasting and Journalism Scholarship Positive Portrayal Funding and public service announcements for local community groups, are very important for community building and for capacity building within the multicultural communities.  They will lead to more authentic, effective and articulate voices being heard from the diverse communities of Vancouver.

 

3930    These benefits are not matched in the alternative submission, and we see them as critical to the long-term development of an excellent and multilingual station. 

 

3931    Third, related to the above, is the need to recognize that the station must be more than ethnic station in which programming is provided in a variety of languages.  Increasing diversity, globalization, and international conflict requires that we all develop an understanding of the other.  To understand the other, they must speak to not only themselves, but to each of us in their own voices.  Cross-cultural understanding and multicultural programming will help us understand each other.

 

3932    Probably the greatest criticism of the multicultural policy, Canada's multicultural policy, has been that it would lead -- could lead to ethnic isolation and ghettoization.  Mechanisms must be provided to ensure that interaction of cross-cultures  occurs.  For example, today, there is a need for a national debate across ethnocultural communities about the recently-introduced anti-terrorism legislation, since it will have a significant impact on all of us.

 

3933    Let me give you a few additional examples.  On September the 12^th, I was asked by CFMT to provide a reaction from within the Arab and Muslim communities on the tragic events of the day before.  I was interviewed and also provided the names of others within the Arab communities who could serve as resources.  The interviews were telecast by CFMT on the Italian, Cantonese, Portuguese, Ukrainian and Polish-language news programs, as well as the weekly news roundup, South Asian News, on the following weekend. 

 

3934    I believe that as ethnocultural communities and faith communities become more confident, there will be a desire for cross-cultural and interfaith programming.  CFMT has been doing some of this, understands this dimension and is committed to that type of programming, and we are confident that LMtv will also do so.

 

3935    Fourth, while the primary objective of multilingual programming is to give voice to the various components of our society, another important role, as we heard a little bit earlier this morning, is to ensure that newcomers are educated about Canada's core values:  the democratic process, the rule of law, acceptance of other cultures, religions and values, non-violent resolution of conflict.  In the past, CFMT has provided a forum for this, and with its program, Multicultural Canada, LMtv will have a vehicle to provide an across-Canada perspective on multicultural issues. 

 

3936    Fifth, there is a need to provide support with respect to fair and balanced portrayal of small vulnerable communities, and to assist them in projecting themselves, their own diversity, their identity, and their values to others.  I can speak to you about my experience as a Canadian Arab and Muslim. As communities who have been especially victimized by the negative portrayal resulting from, in recent years, the Gulf War, and currently, the events of September 11^th.  There are several negative stereotypes that have been perpetuated in large part by the mainstream media.  This has been very well-documented by another Muslim organization, the Canadian Islamic Congress.  However, the Arab and Muslim communities are not homogeneous or monolithic.  There is significant diversity in each of these groups.

 

3937    The discourse that has taken place in the last month or so has been based on agendas set by others.  For example, last week, I attended a CBC Radio Town Hall meeting, which intended to focus on the Canadian/Muslim ummah, or the Canadian/Muslim community.

 

3938    One of the panellists had to tell the CBC moderator more than once that some of the questions that he asked contained erroneous presuppositions and incorrectly framed the dialogue.  We're not under any illusions that one multicultural station will change the situation, but it's an important beginning in British Columbia, particularly when it is coupled with the other initiatives, including positive portrayal funding.

 

3939    LMtv will establish a standard with respect to equity and fairness that other media outlets will have to match. 

 

3940    I would like to conclude my statement with a brief verse from the Koran, the Muslim Holy Book, in which God reminds us that the reason he has created such diversity in humankind.  The Koran says:

 

 

 

All mankind, we have created you from a single pair of a male and female and made you into nations and tribes that you may know each other and not that you may despise each other.  Verily, the most honoured of you in the sight of God is the one who does good.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

3941    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much, Mr. Hassan.  Your message is clear so we have no questions, but we thank you for participating.

 

3942    MR. HASSAN:  Thank you very much.

 

3943    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Madam Secretary, please.

 

3944    THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  Our next presenter this afternoon will be Leslyn Johnson.  Would you come forward, please. 

 

3945    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good afternoon, Ms. Johnson.

 

3946    MS. JOHNSON:  Good afternoon.  Madam Chairperson and Members of the Commission, good afternoon.  My name is Leslyn Johnson.  I was born in Guyana, South America, and educated in North America, graduating with high honours, with two degrees in communications.  I am an independent storyteller, with 12 years' experience broadcasting multicultural film and television projects.  My works have been broadcast on PBS in the United States, and to a lesser extent, on pay television in Canada, simply because there is a difficulty with getting support for multicultural programming.  I've also directed documentaries about historic and other special events within the Black community. 

 

3947    During my tenure in the diplomatic core, when I was stationed in Washington, D.C. and Toronto, I had an opportunity to work extensively with the Black communities there, receiving numerous awards for my commitment and support.  Since moving to Vancouver, I have become actively involved with the local Black community, volunteering at festivals and workshops, mentoring programs and serving on non-profit boards.  I have an abiding passion for promoting lack culture and for showcasing positive Black images.  Because of this interest, I've had lots of opportunity to speak with other members of the Black community about what multicultural television might mean for us.  Today, I'm pleased to speak both as an independent producer and as a member of the Black community. 

 

3948    There's tremendous support from key Black community groups, and these include representatives from Barbados, the Cameroon, Ethiopia, Jamaica, Ghana, Guyana, Rwanda, Somalia, Trinidad and Tobago, and they all wanted to be present.  In fact, several of them were here yesterday because we thought we would be presenting them then. 

 

3949    However, together, we represent a diverse group of approximately 50,000 persons in the Vancouver area, and while we cherish Canada's cultural diversity, we deplore the fact that mainstream television has failed to reach out to the broader segments of the community.  We speak with one voice in support of LMtv's application for a multilingual, multicultural television station.  It is the only application that has demonstrated the vision and commitment to serve Vancouver's ethnic communities.

 

3950    There are several good reasons why we want to support this application, but in the interests of time, I'm just going to mention a few that are important to us.  One, LMtv's proposal was developed by the community for the community.  LMtv was the only applicant who took us seriously.  They appreciated the fact that the Black community is a substantial group, and they reached out to us.  They met with us over and over again, individually and in groups.  They listened to our concerns and they didn't shy away from the tough questions and the scepticism, and believe me, I asked them.  They went back to the drawing board and they made a sincere attempt to work with us.

 

3951    Two, the applicants are committed to spending half a million dollars to development PSAs targeting ethnic communities, using the language, the images and the frame of reference that we can relate to.  We already know that these are far more impacting than the generic kind that is used to appeal to the masses.

 

3952    Three.  The proposal includes 1 million to support positive media portrayal, and this for us is very important.  Most times, people don't even realize how often they're exposed to stereotypes and how little we actually question those stereotypes.  One of the previous interveners mentioned that once in a while, when there is a hot topic, it ends up on the front page, or it ends up on the six o'clock news, and then that's the end of it.  Well, in Vancouver, what we, as a Black community, find even more frustrating than negative portrayal is to have no portrayal at all.  We're generally unseen and we're hoping to change that through LMtv's initiatives.

 

3953    And four, is their independent ethnic producers' initiative of $27 million.  Again, for us, this is important.  This will be the first time that ethnic producers like us have an opportunity to tell, and to decide what stories are important to us.  The Black reality in Vancouver is not poverty, drugs or criminal activity.  We're also more than sports heroes and entertainers.  As producers, we will finally have a chance to reinforce these messages by showcasing the real life success stories.  We will have a forum for discussion, for educating and for promoting cross-cultural understanding.  It will also be an opportunity for all of us, both within the ethnic community and without, to challenge the assumptions of our people, countries, tradition and history.

 

3954    LMtv's impact on the Black community will be huge.  We've been virtually ignored by mainstream television.  Apart from the Lester Martins (phonetic) and the Daniel Igalis (phonetic), who we support and who we love, we're the most invisible of all the visible minorities.  LMtv will give us a face and a voice that matters on a long-term ongoing basis, not some occasional token coverage like we get.  Once in a while, we might get something in Black History Month, which most people don't even recognize.

 

3955    People often assume that because most of us communicate in one or both of Canada's official languages that we're somehow taken care of in the general programming.  LMtv realizes just how wrong this is, and will allow us to reflect ourselves within our own culture and perspective.

 

3956    We're also the first ones who get ignored when the talk turns towards multicultural and third-language programming.  LMtv recognizes that we are a diverse, but a very distinct ethnic group, despite the fact that most of us speak either English or French.  Our community needs LMtv.

 

3957    Too often we've had to ask ourselves the questions, "Where are the cameras?"  Where were the cameras when the Rwandan community commemorated the brutal slaughtering of their brothers and sisters?  This was a moving multicultural event that include members from the First Nations, the Chinese and the Jewish communities, and it helped the Rwandan Canadians to heal some of the deep wounds that had sort of resulted from the conflict back home.  Where were the cameras when the legendary civil rights activist, Angela Defus, addressed a sold out audience at the Vogue Theatre here to a standing ovation?  On both occasions, the only cameras available came from within the Black community, from a group that I happened to be affiliated with.  Yet without a medium to showcase these and other important historic events, they just gathered dust somewhere on a shelf.  Likewise, there was no coverage when Dr. Taylor, a prominent dentist was detained and roughed up by police, simply a victim of racial profiling.  The Black community lost an opportunity to inform and to express its justified outrage.  There will be no cameras this weekend at the Young Black Achievement Awards.  This is an annual ceremony that honours outstanding young men and women and encourages others to strive for their best.  There are hundreds and hundreds of other examples where we needed the cameras and they were not there. 

 

3958    In closing, Madam Chair and Members of the Commission, I ask you to picture this.  Someone with a successful, even sterling career, selling cars, but virtually no experience in telecommunications or regulatory affairs is appointed to sit with you on the CRTC.  You would be justifiably insulted. Our community would be likewise insulted if a broadcast licence was granted to an applicant with no industry experience and who has demonstrated no relationship with the community that it purports to serve.

 

3959    The Black community is certainly enthusiastic at the prospect of having a free, local multicultural television.  Make no mistake about that; we are enthusiastic and it is beyond overdue.  But we don't just want any station.  We strongly feel that LMtv is the only applicant who has the experience and the resources to sustain this licence.  We're confident that you will also agree they are the best choice.  I thank you.

 

3960    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Ms. Johnson.  Commissioner Cardozo, please.

 

3961    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Thank you very much, Ms. Johnson.  I certainly hear your message very clearly, and a large part of what we're here about is precisely the issues that you've raised, and I'm certain that the licensing of a multilingual station would go some distance in correcting the imbalance that you see.

 

3962    I want to ask you, though, as the previous speaker, Mr. Hassan, said, he recognizes that this was not the be all and end all, and that there were many other things to happen.  And I'm wondering to what extent you have talked with other broadcasters in Vancouver, so-called mainstream broadcasters, and whether you have plans to work on them in the months ahead, and I say that in the context that we have been asking, the Commission has been asking all mainstream broadcasters to file plans about how they will reflect diversity as well.  So we certainly see it as a system-wide issue, both within the multilingual segment, as filling a role in that, but also getting, in Vancouver, the English and French stations to focus on that. 

 

3963    MS. JOHNSON:  This is a passion of mine.  It's the core of who I am in terms of showcasing positive Black images, and I am certainly willing to work with broadcasters, both within a multicultural context and within the mainstream context.  My experience so far in Vancouver has been that the mainstream is just not interested.

 

3964    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Yes.

 

3965    MS. JOHNSON:  In fact, for a short while, I actually worked with the then Rogers Multicultural Channel, and they were fairly receptive to having the programming and to having the images, however, they were not in a position to support it financially, and that always seems to be the problem, that people want to see it sometimes, but they don't want to put their money where their mouth is.  And with LMtv, I feel really confident that this will be an opportunity for all ethnic producers.

 

3966    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  I don't doubt that.  What I just want to say to you is please keep us informed about the larger picture, as well.  I hear your point about LMtv.

 

3967    MS. JOHNSON:  Oh, I would love to do that, absolutely.

 

3968    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  But keep us informed.  You know, send your press release, you get no response, fine, just keep track of that. 

 

3969    MS. JOHNSON:  Just keep -- yes.

 

3970    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  And keep telling us about that, because I think it's certainly our duty to ask broadcasters what they're doing about reflecting the communities they claim to serve, all broadcasters.

 

3971    MS. JOHNSON:  Absolutely.  And I'm glad that we have that opportunity.

 

3972    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Thanks.

 

3973    MS. JOHNSON:  Thank you.

 

3974    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Ms. Johnson.

 

3975    MS. JOHNSON:  You're welcome.

 

3976    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you for your participation.  I see you've been here all day, and lost some of your friends from yesterday?

 

3977    MS. JOHNSON:  Yes, unfortunately, but they're here in spirit.

 

3978    THE CHAIRPERSON:  It's very difficult for us to accommodate everybody reasonably and --

 

3979    MS. JOHNSON:  And we understand that.

 

3980    THE CHAIRPERSON:  -- and do the job, as well, so our best to them, as well.

 

3981    MS. JOHNSON:  Thank you. 

 

3982    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Madam Secretary, would you come forward, please. 

 

3983    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Duke, you can't keep away.

 

3984    MR. DUKE:  I can't keep awake, or away?

 

3985    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Away.

 

3986    MR. DUKE:  Away.  I assure you I can keep awake. 

 

3987    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Well, I hope you haven't been sleeping for three days. 

 

3988    MR. DUKE:  No, I haven't got a sleeping bag.

 

3989    THE CHAIRPERSON:  That would not be a good sign.

 

3990    MR. DUKE:  No.  But I didn't have to follow you to Ottawa this time.

 

3991    THE CHAIRPERSON:  No.

 

3992    MR. DUKE:  Not that I minded.

 

3993    THE CHAIRPERSON:  That's good, because apparently it's not very good weather there.

 

3994    MR. DUKE:  Oh, well, then you should stay here for a while.

 

3995    THE CHAIRPERSON:  We've had calls.  Snow is on its way, we're told, so I may stay in Vancouver.

 

3996    MR. DUKE:  Yes.  Well, be our guest for as long as you can, all of you.  That would be nice.  I thought you'd heard that I had just come from Europe so that you were going to accuse me of being nine hours behind.

 

3997    THE CHAIRPERSON:  No, no, no.  I was commenting on the fact that we see you often and we love it.

 

3998    MR. DUKE:  Oh, well, thank you.  That is very gracious.  Thank you.  Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, my name is Daryl Duke.  I'm a television and film director and producer.  My connection to broadcasting began when I produced the first programs for the CBC when it initiated television service for Vancouver in December 1953.  In the years following, I worked for the CBC here and in Toronto.  I have been in both public and private broadcasting.  I have worked extensively in drama, entertainment and information programming, not only across Canada, but in the United States, Europe, the Middle East, and Asia. 

 

3999    I continue to work in drama, and I am engaged at the moment on a feature film slated to go in this country and in China.  I am also a member of the Steering Committee of the Friends of Canadian Broadcasting, and in this capacity, as Madam Chair just observed, I have appeared before the Commission several times in recent years. 

 

4000    Today, I must emphasize, I speak to you solely as an individual with strong concerns about the program content available to our diverse society here in Vancouver and to content which honours that diversity. 

 

4001    On a final biographical note, I must observe that my most direct experience on the subject of Vancouver programming came when the company I headed was granted by the Commission, in 1975, the license to found the independent Vancouver station CKVU-TV.  As Chairman and CEO of this station for some 13 years, I saw very pointedly the importance of the licensing decision you have before you at this hearing. 

 

4002    Madam Chair, in a very real sense, the Commission has, today, an appointment with history.  With the decision of this hearing, you will be putting right an inequity which has existed for too long.  In the first years of the last century, for instance, my great uncle was the principal of a school in East Vancouver.  He had among his students, nearly 100 years ago, some 60 different nationalities.  Very few of those nationalities lived to see themselves, their children, or their grandchildren included in the cultural vitality of their new country.  They were a people apart, their lives were invisible, their heritage suppressed.  Many of their great grandchildren remain excluded to this day, as do thousands upon thousands of newcomers who come to Canada each and every year.

 

4003    I speak to you now, knowing that you, Madam Chair, and your fellow members, take very seriously this past wrong and that you are intent on seeing it corrected.

 

4004    As you know from my written presentation, I endorse the application of LMtv.  I do this warmly and strongly.  There are, however, two reasons which prompt me to make, in person, these remarks for your consideration.  The first of these has to do with the matter of local ownership.  The second with asking you, the Commission, to set some higher levels of programming upon the applicant, LMtv, along with your approval of their application should you find their application worthy.

 

4005    On the first point, I would normally favour the local owner over the distant absentee owner.  Too often have I seen the Commission award a TV licence to an eastern corporation, only to discover, sometimes very quickly, the local operation, staff, programming, and local decision-making and audience input has all been quickly reduced to a kind of TV ATM machine. 

 

4006    I go at this hearing, however, with the application of LMtv and its ownership, albeit distant, of Rogers Communications.  I do so for several reasons.  The first is budget.  While not overly abundant for a city and a multiracial audience the size of Vancouver's, the amount set aside for production over the licence term does represent a respectable sum.  The opposing application of Multivan does not even come close.

 

4007    Next are the benefits to the community and the broadcast scene here and across Canada.  Clearly, for instance, the fund and the initiative for positive media portrayal of racial and ethnic groups is a very important and fresh innovation.  So, too, is the very special funding LMtv has provided for program development.

 

4008    Next, expertise and management.  In the person of Vancouver's Glenn Wong, the local team he has assembled, and the undoubted positive benefit of the experience from the Toronto station, CFMT, all provide clear evidence that the station will not disappoint.  LMtv will look and sound good; its programs will be well produced.  The viewers who turn on the key to LMtv will get a well-running modern vehicle, not a jalopy, nor some kind of wind-up Lego toy which falls apart in short order or is sold off for yet another model.

 

4009    Important to me, too, is the advisory committee appointed to oversee the affairs of LMtv.  Here, I find the commitments of people who cannot lightly or wilfully be brushed aside; persons such as our new senator, Mobina Jaffer - long an advocate of immigrant women's rights and the furtherance of the South Asian community.  Senator Jaffer has placed herself visibly and forcibly on the line in terms of the future success of LMtv.  So has lawyer, Mason Loh, a former chair of SUCCESS, one of Canada's largest social service organizations, and Milton Wong, Chancellor of Simon Fraser University and a founder of the prestigious human rights forum, The Laurier Institution.  These, and others on the Advisory Committee will ensure LMtv performs to the level of its promises.

 

4010    As I, in one breath, ask you, Madam Chair, to approve the LMtv application, I ask you, in the next, for you to set the bar higher; to ask more of the applicant than what he has set before you and will, once the station is on the air, set before us.  The ethnic communities have waited too long.  Vancouver's need is too great.  More must be asked of the applicant, and I urge the Commission to put its attention to this task.

 

4011    Television in English Canada has become a kind of Toonerville Trolley.  Canadian content is dragged along like some pathetic caboose at the end of a long train of American simulcasts.  We have from both sources, U.S. and Canadian, more than enough triviality to go around, and it seems that third language stations themselves are not always immune from being, at times, just plain lightweight.  We must have more than magazine shows turned out by minimum wage staffs, more than stock market reports and sports stories, even in Punjabi, Tagalog or Mandarin, more than Beta cam news footage edited and re-edited, cannibalized, re-formatted over and over.  We need flair, senior producing experience, the ability of astute curiosity to launch new projects, inventive imaginative programs capable of gripping the heart and mind across the spectrum of races and ethnic groups.

 

4012    Of course, there have to be straightforward quality shows about women's rights, about issues of immigration, of settlement, of the news events of the city, the province and the world at large.  I've had two young ladies from Mainland China working for me in recent years.  Their English at the beginning was minimal.  Neither could afford the cost of the pay service of Fairchild TV.  They remained ignorant for a long time of the most basic affairs of our community.  Clearly, the advent of LMtv is going to be very important.

 

4013    I speak rather, Madam Chair, of specials, of unique productions, of creating memorable events, of taking some of that $27 million and adding to it or using monies very deliberately, for the development and production of specials; specials which cut across all races and all divides on the station.  That seed money and a broadcast letter would allow producers to attempt to access the Television Production Fund, Telefilm Canada, and B.C. Film.  It would cause a lobby to come into being to enact change against the prohibition of third language production funding.  It would allow productions of size to be mounted.  It would allow productions to be seen locally, across Canada and even so throughout the world.  It might even allow in re-dubbed or subtitled versions, second windows to be obtained from the CBC or from TV Ontario and other outlets.  The huge resources, the enormous clout of Rogers Communications should be put to work in this regard, and I urge the Commission to try to make it happen, not in the second licence period, but day one, the day the station signs on.

 

4014    Communications must be more and more about value; the establishment of value.  A station such as LMtv has the same responsibility to turn out a TV of meaning as any mainstream station; perhaps more, because the need is greater.  And, as never before, there is an urgent need to mix the local against the global event which often influences it.

 

4015    There are dozens of examples I could bring forward today.  There is time for just two.  As we attend this hearing, we see the consequences for the half-century of failure by the licensed operators of Canadian broadcasting to bring us anything about the world of Islam.  When the Egyptian author, Naguib Mafouz, won the Nobel Prize, did any of the services the Commission licensed carry the event?  Or when he was stabbed in the throat on the streets of Cairo by an extremist, was this covered and given meaning?  Did any broadcast service dramatize one of his stories, such as, "The Drift on the Nile," or, "Miramar," or when Om Kalthoum, one of the great singers of the Arab world died, and the crowds attending her funeral blocked every street in Cairo, did we see the event, play her music, or talk to Canadian Muslims about what her music meant to them?  Or secondly, what more natural a show for LMtv to do than a special on the Overseas Chinese?  A study past and present of one of the world's greatest diasporas, a Diaspora that is huge in Canada and about 50 million worldwide, a Diaspora spreading to all countries of the Pacific, an invisible web of stretching out, connecting families and businesses together.  Would a Canadian audience know anything about the massacre of Chinese by the Dutch in Batavia (today's Jakarta) in 1740, or the 23,000 massacred by the Spanish in Manila in 1603?  A present day documentary on this compelling spread and the enormous beneficial influence of the Overseas Chinese would, to my mind, Madam Chair, be a kind of large signature production LMtv should undertake as part of its year-in and year-out responsibilities.

 

4016    These are subjects near and dear to my heart, Madam Chair, and I could obviously go on long after your patience and the time has run out.  The subjects, the glamorous film stars from Asia, the authors from India, the Pacific, from South and Central America all abound for a new and enterprising force such as LMtv.  This news station can be the instrument which redefines the word "content," and turns programming, once again, into a journey of discovery and intellectual adventure for all ethnicities and languages. 

 

4017    I urge your approval of LMtv, and I hope you'll find in my remarks a method by which we can turn this fine application into the worthy gem it can easily be. 

 

4018    Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, for offering me this opportunity to come before you.  Thank you, again.

 

4019    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Mr. Duke, applications are filed as they are and, generally speaking, that's what they are.  Why is it that you expect us, even though we're a few feet above when you were here before us, to urge or press the applicants for offering more?  Have you not, yourself, spoken to them, and when you decided to appear in support and express what you felt were their worth or inadequacies so that they, themselves, would offer more as you wish?

 

4020    MR. DUKE:  I have spoken to them and I also think, at the same time, your powers of persuasion and influence are great, and I know that you would not make this an unreasonable dictate to them, but would, perhaps, urge a use of this precious airtime in ways that even their budget, as presently constituted, could be reconfigured or could allow over the license period. 

 

4021    I just feel, with the number of stations and the urgency to a city like Vancouver, where some 45 percent are of Asian languages in their home, and we have this enormous population with an enormously rich heritage, that it deserves more than news broadcasts and magazine shows.  And so that if there were ways that the Commission could perhaps encourage movement in that regard, to tie the station productively and properly to national endeavours, and to reach out beyond what is normally considered the purview of an independent multilingual station, I think it would be to the benefit of everyone; Canada and the local community.

 

4022    THE CHAIRPERSON:  I believe, Mr. Duke, that you've been here since Monday morning, or most of the time?

 

4023    MR. DUKE:  I was here Monday morning, and then I had to leave and come back this morning.

 

4024    THE CHAIRPERSON:  As you can see, we examine applications as they're filed and, hopefully, people of your stature in the community will press the applicant that you support to offer more, if they were given a license, or I do wonder why you have to expect us to tell them to have more before us, if you were speaking to them before.

 

4025    MR. DUKE:  I expect them to do things to the light of their conscience and their budget.  I also expect a lot of you, Madam Chair.

 

4026    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yes, no budget, though.

 

4027    MR. DUKE:  No budget.  But I expect a lot of the Commission in setting horizons that might be more far-reaching, and I would feel it remiss of myself not to try and to go on record as urging a reconfiguring of what is the normal diet for these shows and for these stations.  And I simply know that it is useful to put these things on the record and to speak to you from long experience, that if you hear encouragement in this regard, and it is part of the record, then perhaps in time, these things can be moved.

 

4028    THE CHAIRPERSON:  And hopefully, the applicant that you support hears, as well.

 

4029    MR. DUKE:  Thank you.

 

4030    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.  Thank you, Mr. Duke.  We always enjoy having you with us.

 

4031    MR. DUKE:  Well, thank you.  It is nice to be back, and do stay longer.

 

4032    THE CHAIRPERSON:  I may.

 

4033    MR. DUKE:  Yes.

 

4034    THE CHAIRPERSON:  I think we'll have the next Toronto hearing in Vancouver.

 

4035    MR. DUKE:  Okay.  All right.  All right.  We shall try and give you as good a welcome.

 

4036    THE CHAIRPERSON:  We've all enjoyed it.  Yes, and you certainly have kept some of your best weather for us, as well.  It's lovely, thank you.

 

4037    MR. DUKE:  Well, I do my best.  Thank you. 

 

4038    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Madam Secretary, please.

 

4039    THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  Our next intervener this afternoon is Baldwin Wong. 

 

4040    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good afternoon, Mr. Wong.

 

4041    MR. WONG:  Good afternoon.  Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, good afternoon.  First of all, I'd like to thank the CRTC for this opportunity to speak today and to share my views on the importance of the multicultural and multilingual TV station for the Greater Vancouver area and the reasons why I wish to support LMtv's proposal.

 

4042    Allow me a minute to take a minute of your time to talk a bit about myself, my background.  Currently, I am a multicultural community planner with the City of Vancouver, although I'm here to speak strictly as an individual and a concerned consumer of third language TV programs, as well as a first generation immigrant myself.

 

4043    A key part of my work, however, in the City is to advise the City on developing policies and programs which would encourage or assist the participation of members of diverse cultural communities at the local level.  I also work closely with non-profit organizations, whose mandate is to support newcomers on a variety of issues, such as housing, employment, learning one of the official languages, or accessing services, such as police, hospital or childcare.

 

4044    Outside of my professional work, I'm also an active volunteer with various organizations, including former chair of the B.C. Provincial Advisory Council on Multiculturalism, which advises the Provincial Minister on issues related to the promotion of multiculturalism in this province.  I'm a member of B.C. Children's Hospital Foundation Fundraising Committee, a member of the University of B.C. Faculty of Science Dean's Advisory, and a former board member of the Vancouver Recital Society, one of the most highly-regarded cultural organizations in Vancouver, dedicated to presenting internationally-renowned artists, as well as champion Canadian musicians.

 

4045    There are four specific reasons why I wish to support LMtv's proposal.  First, my experience working in the city, addressing the needs of newcomers and the importance of proper media and communication channels.  As alluded to earlier by previous speakers, such as Justice Wally Oppal, and others, Vancouver is a city of many diversities.  We, in fact, based on the last Census, 46 percent of our population are now born outside of Canada, so they are immigrants.  45 percent are from visible minority backgrounds.  I believe the upcoming Year 2000 Census will indicate that that number has now gone beyond 50 percent, which makes Vancouver the second largest urban city in Canada with the highest number of immigrants, as well as visible minorities.

 

4046    In light of that, last year, the City, we conducted a survey and talked to many members of diverse communities, asking them what are the most significant concerns they may have in using municipal services.  The one single most important issue identified by these community members was the lack of information about what city services are, how much they cost, and where they can be accessed.  Community groups talked about the lack of effective communication conduit between the city and community and how that must be improved. 

 

4047    The City currently is developing a newcomers' guide, which will explain the variety of city services and community services available to newcomers.  This guide will also be translated into five languages.  I believe that LMtv can be a very important partner in this regard for this kind of government initiative which seeks to inform and educate a targeted audience, and sometimes about issues of  almost life and death concern.

 

4048    An example I'd like to use, actually, is many recent immigrant or refugee families who live in the City of Vancouver are living in substandard housing conditions.  Many of them may not be aware of, for example, fire protection issues in their housing, and the fact that a lot of them are actually coming from extended families with a large number of children in the family is of concern to the City.  I believe there's a recent case in which, in fact, such a family was affected in a fire, and as a result, there is some tragedies happened to that particular family.

 

4049    This issue actually hit home even harder to me personally, when one winter day last year, I received a call from my parent at six o'clock in the morning, telling me that there was a break and enter in their home.  When I asked, "Well, have you talked to the police," the answer was no, they have not.  So they found out about the break and enter around four o'clock in the morning.  They didn't call me until six o'clock, not wanting to wake me up.  I was very concerned and, in fact, very upset.  And when I asked them why didn't they pursue with the police and report because that may give them the opportunity to do something, the answer was that they didn't feel comfortable to communicate to the police for language reason.

 

4050    With LMtv serving 24 or more language groups in a city like Vancouver, and including reaching out to very hard-to-reach groups, I believe some of these critical life-saving information can be made more readily available. 

 

4051    The second issue I want to talk about is dealing with crisis situations in the city.  Some previous speakers talked about September 11^th and, in fact, after the terrible tragedy of September 11^th, the City actually took immediate action to contact some of the potentially affected groups in the city to inform them that support, or assistance, can be available should they require it. 

 

4052    One can assume that with a television program like LMtv, a significant role can be played to disseminate this kind of information from government to make sure that the community feels safe and not adversely affected.  And I believe also, because of the track record of CFMT in Toronto, that they have that ability to reach out to many groups. 

 

4053    The third thing I want to talk about is really the direct benefits to the community, as I read the application of LMtv.  I do have to say that the various kinds of grants and funding committed by LMtv are incredibly generous and well-needed.  The $27 million targeted for producing dramas and documentaries will be wonderful opportunities to explore the many heart-wrenching stories experienced by immigrant communities and will become part of the legacy of people's stories and voices.

 

4054    The $1 million community grants will go a long way in helping worthwhile community projects, especially small communities which have limited capacity.  A half-million dollars towards supporting public service announcements will also provide necessary exposure and recognition for many community projects.

 

4055    The last reason which also persuades me to support the LMtv proposal is the sheer dedication, commissioned hard work by LMtv staff and advisory board and the way they have worked with the community.  Very often, volunteers and staff don't get the recognition for the amount of good work they put in for a very important cause.  Ms. Mobina Jaffer and Mr. Mason Loh have given 100 percent of their time and effort in ensuring that this application is the best one they can get for the community.  For eight years, they have worked tirelessly to make this dream come true.  They have listened to community and they have respected input from the community, and I believe, in return, the community is giving it a strong vote of confidence and support.

 

4056    Looking at LMtv's application, I sense that it is developed out of a sense of genuine understanding of, and respect for the community, and that it has a strong vision as to how to accomplish those goals, which is to inform, educate and entertain diverse communities and the language of choice.  LMtv understands the challenge of working with diversity and is committed to making it a win-win situation for the whole community.

 

4057    In closing, I would urge the CRTC to give LMtv's proposal their most serious consideration and support.  We, in the community, will welcome and embrace a new era of shared dialogue and understanding which are founded on our respect for diversity and the multicultural citizenry in this city. 

 

4058    Thank you very much for your time and attention.

 

4059    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much, Mr. Wong, for your participation.  Madam Secretary, please.

 

4060    THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  Our next presenter this afternoon is David Paperny.  Would you come forward, please.  Seeing no one, we'll --

 

4061    MR. PAPERNY:  Right here.

 

4062    THE SECRETARY:  Oh, I apologize, I didn't see you.

 

4063    MR. PAPERNY:  Hello. 

 

4064    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good afternoon, Mr. Paperny.

 

4065    MR. PAPERNY:  Good afternoon, Madam Chair and Members of the Commission.  My name is David Paperny.  I run a Vancouver-based television production company, and I wanted to thank you for this opportunity to speak in support of the LMtv application.

 

4066    As you well know, the face of broadcasting in Vancouver is rapidly changing, and LMtv's proposal for a local multicultural television channel will be a significant and positive addition to these changes. 

 

4067    Over the last several years, teaming up with the many great storytellers in this city, Paperny Films has become one of the largest and most successful producers of high-profile, high-quality documentaries in Canada.  I do not produce in a third language and so my company will not by applying for funding from LMtv, but as an established producer here in town, I realized just how valuable LMtv's proposal is. 

 

4068    The LMtv proposal will be a big boost for the local production community.  The proposal includes, as you know, a huge injection of money for locally-produced shows.  It includes key access to national and international markets, and whereas now I wait for most answers for funding requests from Toronto, LMtv will make funding decisions here at the local level.  This is all quite unprecedented and will have a positive ripple effect on the entire industry out here.

 

4069    At Paperny Films, we have tackled a broad variety of subjects for our programs.  We do a lot of Canadian biographies, including the likes of Eastern Canadians such as Henry Morgentaler, and Mordecai Richler, but we also do a lot of home-grown B.C. individuals, like skiing star, Nancy Greene, and local billionaire, Jimmy Pattison.  Last season, our ambitious slate of productions included the series Titans, for Global Television, profiling the new Canadian establishment.  Many of our best stories are found here, within the local community, about individuals who have a universal message that are of interest to a national, and often, an international audience.  That was the case with my two-year long series, The AIDS Diaries of Dr. Peter, about a Vancouver doctor sharing stories about his life and death with AIDS.  It started out on the local CBC newsroom, but the anthology of Peter's diaries ended up being nominated for an academy award and seen around the world.  Again, the influx of local production dollars proposed by LMtv will provide the means for our local stories to be told and seen around the globe.

 

4070    LMtv's focus on third language stories, on different ethnic groups, and diverse immigrant groups is a perfect fit for Vancouver's growing multicultural population.  Again, Paperny Films has scraped the tip of the iceberg in probing the many powerful stories about the new immigrant experience out here in B.C.  Our series on the history of B.C. focussed primarily on the significant influence different waves of ethnic immigrants have had on the growth of this province. 

 

4071    B.C. Times, as we called it, has been our most profitable series, bought by schools, libraries, and secondary institutions across Canada.  There just isn't much out there on the subject.  Paperny Films has produced a number of shows for the immigrant series, The Scattering of Seeds, most recently, an inspiring profile of Gu Xiong, a young artist from China, now living in Vancouver.  He barely escaped the massacre at Tianammen Square.  Canada rescued him and his family, and his paintings have now been bought by the National Gallery of Canada.  He has quickly become one of the country's hottest new artists.

 

4072    Immigrant stories are important reflections of the diverse range of people who make up the rich fabric of this country.  At the moment, not only is it impossible for these communities to tell the rest of the country their stories, it's nearly impossible for them to use television, by far our most influential of popular media to speak to one another.  There are simply no avenues for these stories to be told.  And Paperny Films has also learned that not all these stories are happy ones.  There's a lot more happening in these communities beyond good art and dance.  There are also tragic stories that have to be told.

 

4073    By far, our company's most important documentary of the year was one of these stories.  It was called To Love, Honour, and Obey.  It premiered on CTV this fall and it's set in B.C.'s Sikh community.  The film tells of the tragic tale of Jaswinder Kaur Sidhu, a young Canadian Sikh who married against her family's wishes.  A year and a half ago, she was murdered back in India, allegedly by her own mother and uncle.  She was from the sleepy Vancouver suburb of Maple Ridge.  The fact that our show was the first television documentary about her murder and about the larger issue of arranged marriages in the Sikh community is further proof of the need for an outlet like LMtv, a station which will cover stories like this as part of its mandate.

 

4074    Sure, it's vitally important for these stories to be seen locally, especially in this case, within the large Sikh community which is currently struggling to deal with the issue.  But To Love, Honour, and Obey was watched by over half a million Canadians.  We don't see these stories -- bless you.

 

4075    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

 

4076    MR. PAPERNY:  You're welcome.  We're very polite out west.  We don't see these stories as small, local issues.  They resonate across the country, and we have an international distributor that's just taken this show to MIP, the world's largest TV market.  Again, the stories that LMtv will help us make will be seen well beyond our own community.  In turn, international sales will become an important revenue stream for our fledgling production community.  None of us want to rely entirely on local funding. 

 

4077    In fact, the funds that LMtv is offering will have many dramatic and positive repercussions throughout the entire local community.  The details of their proposal, as you've already heard, are awesome.  Over seven years, they're offering $4 million for development, development of 280 projects and $23 million in license fees, for a total of 165 new programs over the license term.

 

4078    This translates into about $15,000 in development money per project, for about 40 projects a year, with production budgets of about $140,000 per show.  In today's production world, with new video technology bringing down the cost of production, this is a very healthy budget, and this isn't money that we have to cobble together from a dozen different sources, after years of pounding our head against the funding wall, this is all money coming directly from one source, from LMtv.  This is production money that will go to creating, literally, hundreds of new jobs here, and supporting hundreds of indirect services.  It will sustain a vibrant, but still tender, indigenous production infrastructure.  It will open doors to international sales and establish key international partners.  It will foster a creative mass of storytelling talent that will, in turn, develop into something greater than its individual parts.

 

4079    As you've already heard here today, a channel like LMtv is needed now more than ever.  Today, as the entire continent is reeling from the aftershocks of the terrorist attacks in the United States, at a time when everyone of colour is a suspected terrorist, including our own neighbours, now, more than ever, it's essential to tell the stories of our culturally-diverse communities.  The larger population has to have the opportunity to hear these stories, and most of all, LMtv will allow members of these communities to tell their own stories to each other.  This is the best way to keep these communities a vital and flourishing element of our society.  Again, thank you.

 

4080    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Paperny.  Your message is clear, we have no questions, but we thank you for your participation, and thank you for your good wishes.  No one is usually this attentive to me. 

 

4081    MR. PAPERNY:  Why, thank you. 

 

4082    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Madam Secretary, please.

 

4083    THE SECRETARY:  The next name on our list this afternoon, Madam Chair, is Susan O'Donnell.  She cannot be here, but has asked Vera Radyo to read her presentation into the record on her behalf.

 

4084    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

 

4085    MS. RADYO:  Thank you, Madam Chair, fellow Commissioners.  Susan O'Donnell does apologize, but she does not have the flexibility to be here today.  She was here yesterday.  She is currently involved in a human rights mediation and could not come.  The respondent has six lawyers, and the complainant has only Susan, so you can see why Susan needed to be there.  The odds are overwhelming, but Susan is one of the foremost authorities on human rights issues in British Columbia so I'm sure she will do her client well. 

 

4086    Susan has worked in the community for 30 years, largely on equality rights for minority groups.  She is well-known in British Columbia and well respected.  She has been the executive director of the B.C. Human Rights Coalition for the past 16 years, and she provides a lot of educational sessions -- this isn't in the piece, I'm just giving you a bit of background before the presentation.  She provides a lot of educational sessions throughout the province on human rights issues, and she was telling me that the other day, she was invited into a Muslim mosque, where she spoke to 300 frightened people who asked her how they could separate the word "Islamic," from the word "terrorist," in the minds of people, and Susan was able to give them solid advice.

 

4087    This TV application is very important to the board of the Human Rights Coalition and that is why Susan hoped she could be here today.  I will begin her presentation.

 

4088    Dear members of the public hearing, the B.C. Human Rights Coalition is here today to express support for the proposal put forward by local multicultural television.  We are a charitable, non-profit community organization, dedicated to strengthening human rights in the province of British Columbia.  We do this through legal representation, human rights and diversity education, and designing and administering internal policies for employers, institutions and unions.  We resource 75 member organizations and conduct our work throughout the Province of B.C.

 

4089    We are grateful to the CRTC for its realization that a multilingual, multicultural station is a necessity in British Columbia, and that Canadian content is essential to such a station.  Canada is unique in its multicultural policy, unlike the United States, which achieves its melting pot by a process of assimilation.  Multiculturalism has as its legal underpinning, the notion of accommodation of difference that all cultures stand together in their difference as equal partners in our society.

 

4090    As proud as we are of our constitutionally entrenched multiculturalism, our coalition is made aware on a daily basis of the challenges inherent in balancing rights and traditions.  We are aware of the fear and serious conflicts that sometimes arise from the lack of understanding of each other, and an inability to find a process of peaceful mediation to ensure a solution.  And we are aware of the enormous influence that media plays in all of our relationships with each other, both personal and institutional.  

 

4091    Through the media stereotypes of "Asian gangs," "Honduran drug lords," and more currently, "Islamic terrorists," our minorities, immigrants and refugees have cried out for their voices to be heard, for their culture and peaceful traditions to be known.  And they have cried out for the tools to understand our culture, its rules, its views, and their rights.  It is very difficult.  A trust is required.  A relationship is needed.  A vehicle of media which empowers, rather than runs, that translates, rather than interprets, that is committed to providing skills and training, and to providing a diverse leadership that we can all identify with is essential.

 

4092    The only applicant that has attempted to meet all these very necessary criteria, and indeed, in our view, has succeeded, is LMtv.  The Local Advisory Board is comprised of people who have spent their whole lives working on behalf of refugee, immigrant, and minority men and women, and who are exceptional role models for all British Columbians. 

 

4093    LMtv has consulted with all our constituencies over the past eight years to ensure that the station will properly reflect the needs of the ethnic communities it hopes to serve.  Eight years produces a relationship with the community.  Eight years produces a trust from the community.  LMtv has heard from the ethnic community that we want training and empowerment, that we want to see people in charge and in production that reflect all of us, not just a few.  Our community needs the $27 million it will put into independent ethnic production and it needs the scholarships that LMtv is offering. 

 

4094    Our coalition believes that the $30 million that LMtv would offer in direct community benefits over seven years will be returned to Canadian broadcasting and, indeed, to Canadian viewers a million times over. 

 

4095    It has been shown statistically that the talents of ethnic minorities are under-utilized and undervalued and, in fact, you have heard that here today from various presenters.  LMtv will provide a home that will integrate British Columbia's entire multicultural community, both on the screen and in our living rooms.  Thank you.

 

4096    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much.  I hope you give our best to Ms. O'Donnell.  Sorry that we missed her. 

 

4097    MS. RADYO:  I will pass on your regards.

 

4098    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Although I'm sure that we could report on the transcript that you did an excellent job.  I hope you have that, Ms. Court Reporter.  Madam Secretary, please.

 

4099    THE SECRETARY:  Our next presenter this afternoon is Cindy Chan Piper.  Would you come forward, please. 

 

4100    MS. CHAN PIPER:  Good afternoon.

 

4101    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good afternoon, Ms. Chan Piper. 

 

4102    MS. CHAN PIPER:  Madam Chair, members of the Commission, my name is Cindy Chan Piper.  I'm a fourth generation Canadian, but I still speak some Cantonese, though it's a bit rusty, and my Chinese friends all laugh at me.  They say that I speak Chinese with a Canadian accent. 

 

4103    I'm a native Vancouverite, born and raised here, and I've lived here all my life so I know the city well.  I should let you know that I lead a double life.  By day, I'm a mild-mannered architect and planner, but at night time, I turn into a passionate community activist. 

 

4104    I won two awards for my community activism, Canada 125 medal for community service, and an award from the Vancouver Multicultural Society for my contribution to multicultural education.  One of the things I've done is that immediately after the Tianammen Square event, I designed and implemented a cross-cultural employment training program.  This program was funded by the federal government and was very, very successful.  It has served as template for many subsequent cross-cultural employment training programs since then.

 

4105    I have served as a presenter and advisor for many cross-cultural and sensitivity training programs, including the Hastings Institute and the Kingswood training programs.  In the course of my community work, I've helped to found several non-profit organizations, some of which are The First Steps Multicultural Society, and I've helped to found a community policing centre for my neighbourhood, a business improvement association for my community. 

 

4106    I've served as an advisor to the provincial government on issues of employment equity, and I've served as a spokesperson for my Chinese community.  I have also served as a director for several years on the board of the VanCity Community Foundation.  Currently, I am the vice-chair of the Board of Governors for the Emily Carr School of Art and Design, but I need to make it clear that I am not speaking for that Board today.

 

4107    What I'm here to talk to you about today is about my passion for communities, and my dedication to a multicultural and pluralistic society, and about the role that LMtv can play in this capacity.

 

4108    The first thing I want to do is I want to stress our need for a multicultural, multilingual station.  I live in East Vancouver, and this is an area which the first home to a lot of our new immigrants.  My neighbourhood is sort of a mini United Nations.  On my block alone, in the homes in my block, I can count eight languages that are spoken in those homes.  I know my neighbours very well, we all get along, we coexist in harmony and we help one another in a very difficult intercity neighbourhood.  Our cultures are the gifts that we share with one another as Canadians.  And I've been in a few of the homes of the new immigrants in my neighbourhood.  Most of my neighbours work at insecure jobs for minimum wages.  Many are very poor and they exist in survival mode. 

 

4109    One family that I visited, an immigrant family of five, who lived in a very substandard basement suite, two rooms in a basement, they were very poor.  They had absolutely no furniture, except for a table.  They ate standing up, because I arrived at dinner time, and they ate standing up.  They have one chair, and probably reserved it for guests.  I didn't see any other furniture in their living area, but I did see a TV set, and it was a new TV set, and it wasn't a small one either.  So it seems that even the poorest families have a TV set, and they all watch TV, not just for entertainment, but as a tool for learning about Canadian society.  So, therefore, a free, over-the-air multicultural TV station would be extremely beneficial for our poor immigrant families.  They can't all afford cable, but they all have a TV set.  So to provide shows in their first languages, particularly if the shows are educational and relevant to their issues, it would be a tremendous community service.  It would greatly enhance the quality of life for our newest citizens.  As they make the adjustment to become Canadians, such a TV station would be of immense value as an educational tool.

 

4110    I have to tell you a story about one family that I helped to settle in Canada.  They told me that they faithfully watched -- their favourite show was All My Children.  They faithfully watched it every day.  They taped the show when they went to work in the daytime, and came home, and after dinner, every night, they had to watch All My Children.  And I said, "Why do you want to watch All My Children"?  They said, "Because this show helps us to understand western society.  We're learning about you guys from All My Children."  So don't you think that a cross-cultural educational program on a multicultural TV station like LMtv would be a much better way to learn about Canadian society, than a daytime soap opera?  But I think that a multicultural TV station can serve a greater population than just our new immigrants.  I think it can also help to bridge the cultures between cultural groups, but it would also help to bridge between generations. 

 

4111    As I mentioned, I'm a fourth generation Canadian, and I worked very hard to retain my culture and my language skills.  I know very well the tensions that arise as the children of immigrants learn and adopt Canadian lifestyles, while their parents maintain the traditions of their homelands.  I think that relevant cultural programs in different languages would be a wonderful tool in helping to bridge cultural and generation gaps between parents and children as they adapt this country.

 

4112    You see, I think that multicultural programs have to go beyond the dancing and cooking shows.  I'm reminded of something that Byron Kunasawa said during a cross-cultural workshop I attended, when I was still active with the Hastings Institute.  Mr. Kunasawa is sort of our guru of cross-cultural training.  He said, "Real cross-cultural understanding is more than just sharing ethnic food and watching children dance.  If we don't go beyond the eating and the dancing, the only thing we'll have in the end will be overweight children prancing around a room." 

 

4113    From what I understand, LMtv is committed to programming that is relevant to multicultural issues.  I think that they understand the community's perspective and needs.  I think that they have a social vision that is the foundation for their programs.  For example, they're planning a news bureau and they've allocated $27 million for independent ethnic productions.  In addition to all of this, they have also committed to establishing scholarships, and I think that scholarships from a media source such as LMtv would provide a much needed vehicle and assistance to broadcast and journalism students, and it would also help diverse ethnic groups.  It will open the doors for these groups to get into the media.

 

4114    I think that LMtv, through its commitment to relevant programming, has the potential to make a huge difference in the promotion of cross-cultural understanding and relations.  For example, we are all in shock about the events of September the 11^th, and we're all, you know, fearful of the possibility of backlash and stereotyping.  And actually, I disappeared over the noon hour today because I went to a meeting with some members of the arts community, and our way to counteract all of this backlash is to put together a series of lectures for our students and faculty at Emily Carr.  This is a series of lectures to help them to understand the culture and the historic roots of Islam and the Muslim faith, and we're doing this in conjunction with UBC.  So I think that a multicultural station would be a perfect medium to allow this kind of discussion to reach a wider audience, and I think that LMtv has the experience, the programming and the commitment to facilitate opportunities like this. 

 

4115    LMtv is community-based, and I think, has vast community support.  I know some of the people behind this application; a few of them I've known for over a decade, and I know them to be sincere and dedicated people committed to their communities. 

 

4116    So I'm going to wrap it up.  To summarize, I think that an over-the-air multilingual, multicultural television station is really needed in Vancouver.  It would provide a great service to the community, and such a station has huge potential to promote harmony between our cultures.  And if we're going to get such a station, I think we have to choose one that has the most likely chance of succeeding.  We need to ensure the longevity of such a station so that the benefits to the community will continue to build and to accrue.  LMtv has 22 years of experience in operating a multicultural, multilingual TV station.  For me, this application has the best chance of succeeding and it makes the most commitment to the community it serves.  So if the choice was mine to make, I would choose LMtv.  Thank you for your time.

 

4117    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Ms. Chan Piper.  You can tell your friends that some of us watch All My Children too, hoping that we could wear those clothes and look like that.  It may make them feel better.

 

4118    MR. PORTER:  Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, good afternoon.  My name is Victor Porter.  I'm a popular education practitioner.  I'm also a member of the Canadian Council on Refugees, the Amnesty International Human Rights Organization, the Vancouver Police Chief Constable Committee on Diversity, and the City of Vancouver Parks Board and Diversity Committee.

 

4119    Although it's very tempting, I'll stop talking about myself.  I'm here representing the Latin America Community Council, and also a member of community individuals and organizations that I'm going to introduce, if you bear with me.

 

4120    The Latin American Community Council is a group of citizens who work towards the full integration and participation of the Latin American community in the Canadian society.  We have among our members, physicians, counsellors, lawyers, teachers, business people, settlement, youth and community workers.  Our community has a population of 28,000 people residing in the Lower Mainland.

 

4121    To my left is Mr. Houshaing Deghan (phonetic).  He's a multicultural immigrant counsellor.  He works at the Abbotsford Community Services, in Abbotsford.  He has been working with immigrants and refugees for the last five years.  Mr. Deghan, together with Dr. Nasser Amiri, are members of the Persian Community Network, a group of 40 community workers serving the Iranian community, which numbers about 40,000, and the Afghani community, which numbers close to 5,000.

 

4122    Dr. Amiri, who's not here with us today, has worked for the past 15 years as a settlement counsellor and paralegal, and prior to that, worked as university professor, journalist and writer for both radio and television in Iran and Afghanistan.  He has seen that lack of fluency in English isolates his people and politically.  He believes that television is an important bridge to the local community.

 

4123    Zung Trinh and Joanna Bong (phonetic), who are not here today, represent the Vietnamese Community Network, a group of 50 Vietnamese community workers that provides services to the Vietnamese community of about 30,000 in the Lower Mainland.  Zung has worked for the community for over 10 years, and she strongly feels that being an immigrant to a country where you don't speak the language is like being half dead.  To begin participating in the community, people need to be informed, and television is one of the most powerful tools to do that. 

 

4124    The three networks I just mentioned meet monthly to discuss emerging issues, share information and provide solutions to the challenges the respective communities face.

 

4125    Mr. Thomas Abandano (phonetic), he's not here today with us, and that's very unfortunate.  He has worked for his community, the Filipino community, for the last 35 or 40 years.  He's a member of the Filipino Canadian Support Services Society, and the Filipino community numbers about 80,000, and it's one of the largest ethnic groups in the Lower Mainland, after the Chinese and the South Asian communities.

 

4126    Mr. Jerry Sikes, who is not here with us today, is the past-president of the Canadian Croatian Congress, which represents about 25,000 Canadians of Croatian heritage.  Members of the community were so excited about the possibility of television in their own language that they submitted nearly 400 letters in support of the Local Multilingual Television Station.

 

4127    Mr. Taik Koo Whang, who is not here today, brings the issues of the Korean community, whose population is about 40,000 in the Lower Mainland.  Mr. Whang is a journalist, an artist, a writer and as such, he knows the power of media in one's own language. 

 

4128    Phansy Nou, again, she's not here today with us, is a Cambodian Family Support and Integration Worker.  Her community is about 2,000 people, most of whom have come here as refugees over the past 10 years and still face significant barriers.  Phansy feels that it is critical to have television programming to provide information to her community about living in a democratic society.

 

4129    Mr. Chris Friesen, again, he's not with us this afternoon, is the Director of Settlement at Immigrant Services Society, ISS.  ISS is one of the largest settlement agencies in the Lower Mainland and assists thousands and thousands of immigrants and refugees each year.  ISS has been advocating for multilingual television and LMtv since the first application was submitted in 1966.  Chris has worked with many resettled refugees from smaller ethnocultural communities, such as the Afghani, Kurdish, Burmese, Southern Sudanese, and Kosovar.

 

4130    Many resettled refugees are particularly vulnerable.  Through his involvement in Bridge Community Health Clinic, Chris has seen a noticeable increase in mental health issues facing newcomers over the past few years.  The reasons for this rise are many, however, there is an increased social isolation among refugee communities.  He believes that one strategy to create social support networks would be through enhanced communication mechanisms like LMtv. 

 

4131    As you can see, we are a very diverse group and our communities are very diverse.  Some of us have come to Canada as refugees, like the Cambodians, the Vietnamese, the Iranians, the Afghanis, and my own community, Latin Americans.  Some of us have come as immigrants, entrepreneurs, or family members. 

 

4132    Today, I speak on behalf of a body of citizens that works for the well-being of their communities, facilitating the settlement and integration, encouraging and supporting full participation as citizens in Canada, their new home.  The communities we belong to and work for encounter significant challenges through their settlement and integration process.  Getting accurate and timely information on a variety of issues in their own language will facilitate and accelerate that process, and the benefits of integration are for the community at large.

 

4133    Arts and cultural expressions reflect the current challenges and struggles of the society.  Locally-produced programs in a variety of languages will bring to many homes in the Lower Mainland the possibility to discuss, reflect, dialogue and be informed on an innumerable series of topics, from parenting to nutrition, from family violence to crime prevention, and citizen participation, contemporary issues and heritage. 

 

4134    Up to today, many of our communities don't have access to what the general population takes for granted.  LMtv opens the opportunity for our own communities to share in the dialogue and the wealth of information available.

 

4135    My colleagues and I are very concerned about the stereotypical portrayal of our communities.  The linkages often made that suggest a direct relationship between immigrants and crime, and now terrorism, between refugees and drug trafficking, and now terrorism, between migrants and filth, and now terrorism.

 

4136    LMtv proposes a media portrayal initiative to monitor the electronic media for sensitivity and accurate portrayal of ethnocultural groups.  This is an initiative that we support and welcome.

 

4137    We are constantly searching for opportunities for our communities to participate, for doors to be open.  LMtv proposal is about opening doors.  Doors to learning through the scholarship and internship initiatives.  Doors to create and produce culturally sensitive and meaningful programming through the Independents Producers Fund.  Doors to information through the support of the public service announcement development project.  Doors to participation through the public consultation and the seats available at the local advisory board. 

 

4138    Our communities are large, culturally-rich.  Our wealth is not measurable in dollars, but in experiences of survival, resistance, resiliency, and struggling for freedom.  We have, collectively, many stories to tell.  We can make a substantial contribution to over-the-air television.  That contribution will be 100-percent Canadian.  We'll show the Canada that is present in our schools, in our financial institutions, in our Armed Forces, oil fields, farms and factories, but that is not reflected yet in our screens.

 

4139    We do have a voice and we do have a presence, but we need that voice and presence to be broadcast.  LMtv proposal opens the door that will allow our communities to construct, reflect and broadcast our own images.

 

4140    I would like to conclude my intervention with a couple of points.  We dream, we love, we raise our children, and we put them to bed in our mother tongues.  There are 70 languages spoken in the Lower Mainland, other than English and French.  We, the local communities, will greatly benefit from free over-the-air multicultural television. 

 

4141    My second and final point is that we believe that LMtv, if granted a licence, will deliver the high-quality programming that our communities need and deserve.  Their staff and board members are capable, sensible, credible, committed, and have gained our trust over the past eight years of consultation and dialogue.

 

4142    The average institution or corporation in Canada named our communities as "hard to reach populations."  I like to state for your benefit, Commissioners and Madam Chair, that we were not hard to reach at all for the staff of LMtv.  Thank you very much. 

 

4143    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much, Mr. Porter, and your colleagues.  I think you've been here for quite a while, have you?

 

4144    MR. PORTER:  I have.

 

4145    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Yes.

 

4146    MR. PORTER:  And I enjoyed my afternoon, and my morning, and my evening yesterday.

 

4147    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you for your patience.  You respond very well when prompted.

 

4148    MR. PORTER:  Thank you. 

 

4149    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much for your participation.  I think this would be a good time to take a 10-minute break.  We'll be back in 10 minutes.  Thank you.

 

‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1510 / Suspension à 1510

 

‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1520 / Reprise à 1520

 

4150    THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Madam Chairperson.  Our next presenter this afternoon is Juan Miguez, and I have to apologize for the misspelling of his name on our list. 

 

4151    MR. MIGUEZ:  Yes, thank you, it's Juan Miguez.

 

4152    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good afternoon, Mr. Miguez.  If you'll allow me 30 seconds, please.  There appears to be some parties to this proceeding who are concerned about not being heard.  You will all be heard before the end of the process.  So if some people are not in the room, pass the message that there is to be no concern.  Everyone who is on the appearing list will be heard. 

 

4153    Thank you, Mr. Miguez.  Go ahead, please.

 

4154    MR. MIGUEZ:  Thank you.  Dear Madam Chair and Commissioners.  I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to make this presentation.  Before I start, I want to make clear to everyone that I have not been hired or coached by any of the two parties seeking the licence.  My comments are my own and made after a careful study and information conveyed from both applicants.

 

4155    My name is Juan Miguez.  I am an independent producer of Spanish language programming for the SHAW Multicultural Channel.  This channel serves Vancouver and Greater Vancouver through basic cable service.  I have been producing programs for this channel, previously the Rogers Multicultural Channel, since 1992.

 

4156    I currently produce a one-hour weekly serial drama purchased in Latin American, programming I call imported, and a 30-minute weekly world music program with material acquired in Latin America and the U.S. and hosted by local talents.  I call this a local/imported program.

 

4157    The reason I mention this is because I believe, and with all due respect, suggest to Madam Chair and the Commissioners, the Shaw Multicultural Channel is pivotal in your decision on whom to grant the licence to operate a multilingual television station.  I have taken the liberty of adding the Shaw Multicultural Channel to the comparison chart prepared by LMtv to make my point.  And by the way, this chart is at the end of my presentation, if you want to look at it.

 

4158    The Shaw Multicultural Channel airs 115 hours of programming each week.  Not to be ignored as a major force in providing ethnic programming, 98 percent of it, it should be noted that 71 percent is imported, as my serial drama is, 13.5% local, and 15.5 percent local/imported, as my world music program is.  And I have the facts.  I study the programming of the channel all the time so I know what I'm talking about.  So I'm not just giving figures, they are here.

 

4159    The imported and local/imported programs require very little local production, which we can manage, in my case at least, in my modest production studio, and the editing facilities provided by Shaw.

 

4160    The remaining 13.5 percent local programming consists mainly of magazine programs, where the limited resources the producers have is evident in the final product, although acceptable considering the financial limitations they are faced with.

 

4161    That's why I don't produce local programming.  A good high quality local program is costly to produce, therefore, I cannot do it, especially with the financial resources available in my community, which even though is rapidly growing, it is not at the financial standards of, for example, the Chinese or South Asian communities.

 

4162    A new multilingual television station, such as the one proposed by LMtv, will fill that void which exists at the present time.  And I'm not talking about my community only, but about most of the ethnic communities in this area.

 

4163    The Shaw Multicultural Channel, with its over 85 percent imported programming, is a perfect complement to LMtv's proposal which will concentrate in the production of high quality, local, Canadian ethnic programming.  Neither one of them poses a threat to the other, as some may suggest.

 

4164    Later, I could elaborate further on the Shaw Multicultural Channel, its programming, schedule, changes, quality and impact on the producers due to the changes of recent years if the Commission wishes me to, but now, I want to concentrate on one of the two applications that concerns us, Multivan and LMtv.

 

4165    Why do I support LMtv?  To put it simply, it offers more, much more.  To start with, I want to talk about the program schedule.  Multivan's schedule is vague on type of programming, exemption given to news programs.  The title, "Lifestyles," following an ethnic community does not give me much information of what I can expect to watch.  It could well be an imported variety show hosted by a local talent, or a comedy, a world music show, who knows?  We already have those type of programs on the Shaw Multicultural Channel.  Ethnic cooking shows?  We have those programs on the Shaw Multicultural Channel.  What about international ethnic movies?  We have them there too.

 

4166    On the other hand, LMtv's schedule is more specific.  There are newsmagazines, entertainment, current affairs, lifestyle and culture, arts and culture, and magazine programs, cross-cultural youth, the Community Producers Showcase, and the B.C. Independent Producers Initiative, news programs and more. 

 

4167    As a producer, I see three distinctive opportunities at LMtv. 

 

4168    One.  As a staff producer for programs such as, Spanish Current Affairs, and Spanish Entertainment, programs that, as I stated before, I love to produce now, but I can't due to cost involved.  These type of programs are a necessity to a community such as mine, eager to hear and express their needs, and to artists with great talent, to show and share.

 

4169    Two. As an associate producer for the Community Producers Showcase, with full access to state of the art facilities, for a professional production, and a share in advertising revenues.  And let me point out that I was gladly impressed by the quick response by Mr. Tony Viner after the concern expressed by Madam Chair on Monday, and I'm sorry there's a typing error, it was Monday, in regards to the Community Producers Showcase.  Limiting the Chinese and South Asian ethnic groups to not more of than 20 percent of the total hours per week dedicated to this, proves to me that LMtv people are truly committed to all ethnic groups, large and small.

 

4170    Three.  Funds for program production through the B.C. Producers Initiative.  This initiative has a great bearing in my supporting the LMtv application.  Years ago, I came to a story written by and about Latino Americans, their Canadian experience, their integration, successes and frustrations.  A story to share with our community and others, for enrichment, knowledge and understanding.  A story never developed or produced for lack of funding. 

 

4171    The $27 million B.C. Independent Producers Initiative could make that possible, and this is B.C., British Columbia producers.  This amount is more than 5:1 of what Multivan offers.  There is also the additional opportunity of an incremental licence fee for broadcast on CFMT, plus the producer retains the right to sell the program somewhere else.  This is a great incentive to produce high quality programming which will benefit the community and will make the production community flourish.

 

4172    We need LMtv.  This is not a whim, but a necessity.  The community benefits, both in programming and financially, are great.  The amount of money for production facilities and scholarships far surpasses that of Multivan.  And money for media portrayal, community grants and public service announcements is non-existent in Multivan's proposal.

 

4173    LMtv has the expertise to run a successful television station, as proven by CFMT in Toronto, and has been consulting with this community for more than seven years now.  These people have been around for many years, not for the last few months.

 

4174    There is a strong commitment to high quality, local, third language Canadian ethnic programming in LMtv's application, programming needed and practically non-existent on the Shaw Multicultural Channel, which has over 85 percent of its programming imported.  Therefore, both channels would complement each other rather nicely.

 

4175    Multivan's proposal comes through to me as a radio station who wants to become a TV station and later on, seek the same market Fairchild Television serves.

 

4176    After hearing today Maria Fonseca, with her presentation, that makes this thinking even more strong, because she has told you about her experience with the Mainstream Broadcasting and the radio station.  And that's what I'm afraid of that would happen with this proposal, that eventually, after a while, programs, especially for small communities, would disappear.

 

4177    To summarize, LMtv is the best-suited proposal for Vancouver, Greater Vancouver and Victoria.  Finally, we heard a lot about local ownership.  Local ownership means nothing to me.  Local management does.  I don't care where the parent company is located.  I do care, though, that the people who will make the decisions are here and local, and local management and local advisory board are offered by LMtv. 

 

4178    When I immigrated to Canada 25 years ago, there were 13 TV channels to choose from in Vancouver.  After Expo 86, the immigration explosion occurred and many came to form the colourful mosaic that Greater Vancouver is made out of.  Over 800,000 ethnic residents, 54 percent of the population have chosen to call it home.

 

4179    After 25 years in this great country, and now over 100 TV channels to choose from, I believe it is time for the right local multicultural television station, LMtv.  Please grant us this license.

 

4180    Thank you very much, and I will be happy to answer any questions the Commission may have.

 

4181    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Miguez.  Your presentation and position is clear so we don't have questions. 

 

4182    MR. MIGUEZ:  Thank you.

 

4183    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you for participating in the proceeding.  Madam Secretary, please.

 

4184    THE SECRETARY:  Our next intervener this afternoon is Sonny Wong.

 

4185    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good afternoon, Mr. Wong. 

 

4186    THE SECRETARY:  Would you turn on your microphone, please.

 

4187    MR. WONG:  That would be a good idea.  Good afternoon, Madam Chairperson and members of the Commission.  My name is Sonny Wong.  I'm the president and creative director of Hamazaki Wong Marketing Group, a 12-year-old, full service marketing communications agency located here in Vancouver.  In addition to traditional English language advertising, we also specialize in Asian marketing.  In fact, it's been in this area that we've seen the greatest growth since our inception and it is in this area that we have come to be known as experts.

 

4188    Clients for whom we handle Asian marketing include regional and national accounts, such as Acura Lower Mainland Dealers, Air Canada, Ocean Fisheries, Sunrise Soya Products, Tropicana Canada, Richmond Savings, VanCity Savings, and others.

 

4189    I have also, personally, played a significant role in many community endeavours.  From 1992 to 1998, I was the general manager of the Canadian International Dragon Boat Festival, the largest and most celebrated dragon boat event in North America, and one of the most anticipated summertime events in Vancouver.  In fact, the festival, with its message of multiculturalism and cultural inclusiveness, has become the model for virtually every other dragon boat event in the continent.

 

4190    In the media arena, I was instrumental in the development and production of the Chinese edition of Maclean's magazine from its initial concept to realization.  And our company inaugurated the Asian edition of enRoute, Air Canada's in-flight magazine for Asia.  This trilingual publication, called enRoute Asia, was published in three languages:  Chinese, Japanese and Korean, the first time in Canada that these three distinct languages came together under one cover.

 

4191    I am also the founder and co-producer of the Leo Awards, British Columbia's only annual awards program celebrating the burgeoning film and television industry.  Since the inception of the Leo Awards in 1999, we have accepted and screened over 1,600 film and television productions that altogether form the backbone of the local industry and have made a significant contribution to the cultural and entertainment fabric of this province and country.

 

4192    As for my beginnings, I was born and raised in Vancouver, not one block away from Chinatown, to immigrant parents from China who came with little but the clothing on their backs and a work ethic to succeed in this new country.  Having the good fortune to live and be educated in Vancouver, and seeing how the city has changed and evolved over the years, I care deeply about the local perspective, and hence will always support local projects, but only inasmuch as it benefits the local community.  In this case, I will depart from my normal viewpoint because it is not the "seeming" local bid that supports this.

 

4193    I am here to support the application from LMtv for the multicultural television license.  And because I am a student of marketing, a discipline that was promulgated for the business world, the four P's, I will categorize my argument as the four C's.  They are, context, content, community, and commitment.

 

4194    Let me first deal with context.  Far too often, within marketing circles, we have seen companies market their products and services to the ethnic markets, while ignoring the reality that we indeed live and work in Canada, and that Canada, for the most part, is English speaking.  For example, a major car company, not long ago, ran a promotional campaign that offered a specific cash incentive for the Chinese community and made this incentive known through Chinese media.  The wrinkle was that this offer was not made to the buying public at large, and the result was significant consternation in the general marketplace about why this promotional offer was made available only through racial and cultural lines.  Not only does this approach ghettoize ethnic groups, it fails to offer an inclusionary environment that recognizes Canada's culture and people for what it is.  And if the local radio talk shows were any indication, I believe that this seemingly innocent promotion did more to raise the spectre of cultural division than it was an exercise in good Asian marketing.

 

4195    It is exactly this kind of exclusionary attitude that I know LMtv will avoid.  It already has a keen appreciation for the make-up of the country and its people through its work and experience with CFMT, and through its excellent staff and advisory board.  It is the ability to see ethnic markets through this context of Canadian and North American society that is a differentiating factor for LMtv.  Its 60/40 ethnic/non-ethnic programming model is ideal in achieving this whole idea of context, an important one in allowing ethnic programming in the first place.  But perhaps, most significantly is the fact that it works.

 

4196    Context is also important because an immigrant living in Canada, who has accepted Canada as their home, must begin to develop a frame of reference that becomes their Canada, one that distinctly belongs to them and of which they can be proud.  Indeed, being exposed to programming from their native countries is perhaps a great way to know what's going on back in the country from whence they came, but it's self-defeating in the long run, which brings us to content.

 

4197    At a time when technology continues to rule the day, I continue to believe, and have always believed, that content is king.  Good content will always find viewers.  Good content will always stimulate discussion.  Good content will always introduce new ideas and force us to think.  Especially content that is produced for ethnic audiences in Canada by ethnic producers in Canada.  Indeed, it is only these kinds of programming that can help define, clarify and strengthen identities within a Canadian context.

 

4198    I am impressed with the funding that LMtv will establish for local content.  Its $80 million contribution to quality programming cannot be understated, especially with a $27 million B.C. Independent Ethnic Producers Initiative for the creation and development of sustainable ethnic programming.  That, along with their $500,000 scholarship program for broadcast and journalism students to ensure a continued talent pool, is an important and unprecedented gesture in allowing ethnic voices to be heard and understood.

 

4199    There are also important initiatives in growing the ethnic creative talent pool, television production industry, and in job creation.  In fact, I look forward to the day when, due to the plethora of ethnic production, when we are forced to open up a new category in the Leo Awards just for ethnic programming.  That will be a good day indeed.

 

4200    LMtv is also about community.  And what is community, but people, people who are joined by a common purposes or calling.  LMtv is peopled with individuals that truly represent this community and the many ethnic groups that contribute to our multicultural mosaic.  Plus, LMtv staff and supporters have played leadership roles with many community non-profit organizations and the like, further contributing to this concept of community and strengthening it.

 

4201    It is this local community leadership that will shape LMtv and assist it in making a real contribution to the local marketplace.  And anyone who negates this is misleading us all.  Aside from the local leadership that will steer LMtv, and who I know will be unequivocal in promoting our point of view, the financial resources allowed this community for content development is truly community building and community inspiring.

 

4202    LMtv demonstrates community every day in Ontario with CFMT, and its unique programming by locals for the local community.  LMtv's commitment to content creation is truly an investment in the community.  It's no surprise that in return, the local community has embraced LMtv's application.

 

4203    To my penultimate point, commitment.  LMtv has truly made a commitment to the local ethnic communities and in the delivery of quality programming that goes beyond the ordinary.  LMtv comes from a heritage of experience and history of serving the ethnic markets, as it already does in Toronto and Montreal.  It has demonstrated an unswerving commitment to these markets and we at Hamazaki Wong have rewarded them by placing our clients' advertising with them.  It is this commitment that I support and will encourage our clients to support as well.

 

4204    LMtv has tried for eight years to secure a multilingual license here in Vancouver.  That alone demonstrates commitment when, perhaps other less committed broadcasters would have walked away.

 

4205    Finally, if I may ask the Commission's indulgence.  In the same way that I believe marketing has a fifth P, I would like to introduce a fifth and final C.  In this case, this fifth C stands for continuity.  LMtv is in the business of media and broadcasting.  It is a business for which return on investment is important, but simultaneous to this is emotional investment in the local ethnic community.  A business is more than just bottom line.  It's delivery of service and content, and if we believe that the long-run is all the short runs put together, then LMtv's commitment for programming is a heck of way to begin, what I expect will be, a very long and continuous run of quality content and programming for the ethnic communities.  This is a promise I can accept now and fully expect will be upheld in the future because of LMtv's legacy of continuity in broadcasting and in investing in the communities it serves.  Thank you.

 

4206    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Wong.  Commissioner Grauer, please.

 

4207    COMMISSIONER GRAUER:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  If I could just ask you some questions generally about your experience in the Asian advertising market.

 

4208    MR. WONG:  Sure.

 

4209    COMMISSIONER GRAUER:  We had some discussions the other day about what the impact of this kind of a station, and speaking here of the third language advertising, not the English language advertising, the effect of essentially, growing the pie.  What kind of a stimulative effect would it have on the overall market, or do you think it does or doesn't?  What is the impact of bringing some like that --

 

4210    MR. WONG:  I think it does from the perspective of very often clients have -- well, clients that we work with right now, as a matter of fact, will ask, "Well, I'd like to reach some of the other ethnic communities, in addition to, perhaps, the Chinese community, which is quite represented from a media point of view."  And nine times out of 10, we will say, "Well, that's a wonderful idea and we fully support that.  Where it fails is the lack of media vehicles to reach these groups."  So I believe with the addition of this kind of service, that that opportunity will open up, as well. 

 

4211    COMMISSIONER GRAUER:  Thank you.

 

4212    MR. WONG:  Thank you.

 

4213    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Commissioner Wilson?

 

4214    COMMISSIONER WILSON:  Suddenly, we all have something to say.  Have you looked at the business plans for both of these applications?

 

4215    MR. WONG:  I've looked at the summaries of the business plans, yes. 

 

4216    COMMISSIONER WILSON:  And is it your view that over time, it would be possible to grow the amount of ethnic advertising so that it would exceed the 20 percent of the revenues in the long term?

 

4217    MR. WONG:  Unfortunately, I don't necessarily think that.  That's why I support the whole idea of a 60/40 combination because I think, at some point, it is going to be the English language advertising that will help to support the ethnic language advertising.  I think that there will be an opportunity to maximize ethnic language advertising as best as possible, but whether it will ever pay for itself is a question that I think remains to be seen.

 

4218    COMMISSIONER WILSON:  Okay, thanks.

 

4219    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Wong.

 

4220    MR. WONG:  Thank you.

 

4221    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you for your participation.

 

4222    THE SECRETARY:  Our next presenter this afternoon is Renee Saklikar.  Unfortunately, she's unable to be here but Sandra Wilking will read her comments into the record on her behalf.   Would Sandra Wilking come forward, please?

 

4223    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good afternoon.

 

4224    MS. WILKING:  Good afternoon, Madam Chair and commissioners.  It's a beautiful day out there by the way.  It's our one sunny day this week.

 

4225    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Do you want us to adjourn before we hear you?

 

4226    MS. WILKING:  Actually I would give that up to go out here.  Unfortunately Renee couldn't be here today, but however, she and I have been supporters in the community on LMtv for the past eight years, and we are only two drops in a larger drop, a pool of people at the local level, at the grassroots level who have been on this journey for a long time.

 

4227    So before I read Renee's points, maybe I should introduce myself.  I, personally, have had the privilege and opportunity to be involved in many sectors of this community, and at times in other parts of Canada on issues of concerns related to multiculturalism and cross cultural relations.

 

4228    My participation has ranged in a broad way, from policy to strategic directions to execution.  And I've also had the privilege to cut my teeth as the first Chinese Canadian female elected officially as an elected official in British Columbia, as a Vancouver city councillor, and during the very challenging years of the 80's and 90's, late 80's and 90's, and as Asians from Hong Kong and other parts of Asia were adjusting with local born Canadians in this city.  And from these experiences, like Renee, we've been given the opportunity to work with people at the grass roots level and to have leaders in this community.

 

4229    And I'd like to say, and I think as a member of this community that you have seen today and you'll see for the rest of this week, many committed people who have appeared before you, and you've heard from us, we've written to you.  And I think you'd agree that never mind which side we are on this that our community is definitely enriched and most fortunate to have so many people who are dedicated, interested, committed and concerned about having their stories presented professionally through an electronic media.

 

4230    Renee's thought on behalf of the 100's of volunteers who have been supporting LMtv in this community are as follows. 

 

4231    We would like to focus on three major themes that demonstrate LMtv's community involvement over the past eight years.  First, when LMtv first came to Vancouver eight years ago, they sought out individuals from a wide range of ethnocultural and religious communities to share their vision, ideas, experience of bringing a multilingual television station to the Lower Mainland and Victoria, and to seek feedback and input from these individuals.

 

4232    Since this time, we have seen LMtv grow their community relationships to include individuals from an even broader spectrum of our community, from leaders to community workers to professionals to community advocates.  The well-known and the not so well-known. 

 

4233    They now include a wide range of ethnic and racial groups from significant size groups such as the Chinese, South Asian, to medium size groups such as Koreans, Vietnamese, Latin Americans, Filipinos and smaller size groups such as Iranian, Afghani, Cambodian, Ghanaian, Nigerian and Croatian communities.

 

4234    Involvement has also come from a spectrum of religious groups, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Catholics, Protestants and Muslims.  LMtv not only did their research, but they also engaged and listened to the communities that were their potential audience.  I think that's really important, a point that Renee would like to make. 

 

4235    Even though LMtv did not receive a license in 1996, and 1999, they did not give up on this community, and neither did this community give up on the vision of a multilingual television station in the Lower Mainland, an idea originally instilled by LMtv.

 

4236    Between license applications, LMtv and its broad spectrum of community volunteers still continued to discuss and solicit feedback and input on their programming ideas, and for meaningful ways for LMtv to give back to and strengthen this community, as well as developing broadcasting talent in this region.

 

4237    New program initiatives to this proposal illustrate that LMtv works to stay abreast with the needs and desires of their potential audience living here and in other parts of Canada. 

 

4238    Her last point is LMtv through the years has made a conscious and serious effort to be part of this community.  Volunteer leaders, staff and many community volunteers have gone to where their potential audience celebrate and share their culture with other cultures.

 

4239    LMtv have made their presence felt at major festivals and events throughout the Lower Mainland.  They have brought their message to the community and received support for those in attendance who agreed with their programming ideas for a multilingual television station.

 

4240    In conclusion, LMtv walked the talk of involving and being involved with this community over the past eight years.  They have shared their ideas, and they have listened.  And at the same time this community has also been empowered in its determination to bring a professional multilingual station to the Lower Mainland and Victoria. 

 

4241    We believe we can safely say that it is the hope of many LMtv community supporters that they will not have to come before you again for many years, and this is my aside ‑‑ and I'm sure you won't want to see us for many years ‑‑ once LMtv is awarded a multilingual licence for the Lower Mainland and Victoria.  Thank you.

 

4242    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much for your presentation, and we don't have questions.  We thank you and ask you to bring back our best wishes to your colleague.  Yes.  Madam Secretary, please.

 

4243    THE SECRETARY:  Our next presenter this afternoon is Barbara Brink.  Would you come forward, please?

 

4244    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good afternoon.

 

4245    MS. BRINK:  Good afternoon, Madam Chair and your fellow commissioners.  My name is Barbara Brink, and I am the founder of something called Science World in British Columbia.  Science World is a 100,000 square foot interactive science centre.  We have been at the former home of the Expo Centre in False Creek since 1989, and have welcomed over 6,000,000 visitors.

 

4246    I'm also the founder of something called Leadership Vancouver, and this program is based on 1,000 programs throughout the United States, Great Britain and Australia.  And what we do is we bring together emerging leaders in different communities in the corporate sector, the not-for-profit sector, the public sector, and the labour sector.  We also ensure that these programs reflect the new merging ethnicities in all their new communities.  Leadership Vancouver began 10 years ago.  I have since secured funding to enrol this program across Canada in 16 new communities. 

 

4247    I'm the first Canadian to sit on the International Board which is based in Indianapolis.  I was a United Way campaign chair for not one year, but two, and during that time I spearheaded the drive to ensure that the cabinet, the board, and all our fundraising reflected the new communities in the Lower Mainland. 

 

4248    I am the Vice-Chair of the Laurier Institution, and that's a think tank that conducts research into the social and economic benefits of diversity in our area and across Canada.  Our studies have ranged from First Nations issues to immigration to certification of new people in the work force to teenage gangs.  Our findings are often cited in the national media.

 

4249    I am a trainer in strategic planning, multicultural issues and governance in the not-for-profit sector, and as such have worked with over 150 different agencies.

 

4250    I did serve of the board of the Lester B. Pearson College of the Pacific, and that college of course, is founded on the Pearson principle that through understanding comes peace.

 

4251    I chaired a national conference called Equity Community Participation and Citizenship.  This conference on social justice in the 21^st century was co-sponsored by the Canadian Council of Christians and Jews to celebrate their 50^th anniversary.

 

4252    I now sit on the board of Vancouver General Hospital Foundation, the Salvation Army.  I chaired the 1991 capital campaign for the B.C. Cancer Agency, and I sat on the Health and Welfare Committee of the Vancouver Foundation which gives out more over $20,000,000 per year into the not-for-profit sector. I'm a member of the Order of Canada. 

 

4253    Why am I supporting LMtv for this application?  I feel very strongly about three areas, commitment, know-how and national synergy. 

 

4254    LMtv has come back to you not once, not twice but three times.  They have shown commitment to the community.  They have worked with the community.  They have worked in the community and they have worked for the community.  They have the community trust.

 

4255    The other application is from a group of five people that incorporated just over four months ago.  I know all the players from both sides.  I have worked with them in the community.  I did not know they had an interest in a multicultural television station.  That is why I am choosing to support LMtv.

 

4256    LMtv has been working on this plan and working within this community for eight years.  The other application is just a newfound interest, and while I'm sure they've been interested, it is a newfound interest within this community. 

 

4257    With commitment comes trust.  The community knows LMtv is here for the long haul.  This is evidenced by the number of letters of support that you received since our last application, and I understand that the letters of support this time around outnumber the competition's application by a very wide margin.

 

4258    Commitment to the community in terms of dollars is equally as important.  You've heard all the other numbers.  The two I want to focus on, because they're very dear to my heart are the million dollar grant for the not-for-profit sector in terms of community grants and $500,000 in terms of public service announcements.  Because I spent my whole life in the not-for-profit sector, I know what it means when we hear federal cutbacks and provincial cutbacks, things are really at the bone, and I can tell you this gift will be a wonderful boost to the community.

 

4259    Now, let's focus on know-how.  We are the third largest city in Canada.  A multicultural station is long overdue.  We need a station that the public knows will succeed.  We need a station here that has the know-how. 

 

4260    CFMT TV in the Rogers Station in Toronto is good and it consistently wins awards.  This weekend my brother was here.  He lives in Toronto.  He has two teenagers, and I asked him if he'd ever heard of this station in Toronto.  He said, "Heard of it?"  His kids watch it all the time, and I said, "Really?"  And he said yes.  He said when they first started watching it was for the American programming.  He said but the interesting thing is as they became more interested in the American program, they realized there was so many fascinating things on either side of that programming and they're now definitely hooked to this station.  I thought this was a wonderful example of, frankly, how we can bring together all sorts of communities.  And by the way these teenage kids are not nerds.  They're great. 

 

4261    We don't want to have a station fail out here because of the steep learning curve and how to run a multicultural station very successfully.  LMtv has the expertise and, frankly, they have the track record.

 

4262    I want to talk now about national synergy.  A Rogers station in Toronto and Ottawa and a bureau in Victoria and Asia will give us a national synergy.  In the next 10 to 15 years, we will be welcoming over 3,000,000 new immigrants.  With LMtv, that national synergy will be a reality, because we can develop between cultures, and not only between cultures but across Canada, a national synergy.

 

4263    I am an immigrant.  I still remember those feelings of strangeness when I came to this country.  So I do feel LMtv will not only be very helpful for newcomers but those of us who have been here for a long time to better understand the Canada that is so ours.

 

4264    Canada will continually evolve in the issues of identity and a national synergy becomes even more important.  I have waited, and we have waited a long time for a station in the Lower Mainland.  I urge you to consider the LMtv's application because of their commitment, know-how and the issue of national synergy.  Thank you.

 

4265    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much, Ms. Brink.  Madam Secretary, please.

 

4266    THE SECRETARY:  Our next presenter this afternoon is Milton Wong.  Would you come forward, please?

 

4267    MR. WONG:  Madam Chair and commissioners, my name is Milton Wong, and I am a citizen of Canada.  Although my heritage is from China, I was born, raised and have lived in Vancouver all my life, a fact that I am very proud of.

 

4268    I am the chairman of HSBC Asset Management of Canada, a business I started in 1980.  It is currently managing approximately $4,000,000,000 consisting of mutual funds, pension funds, foundation/endowment funds.  I have also been accorded the privilege of being the Chancellor of Simon Fraser University.

 

4269    I have been directly involved in the issues of capital markets, multiculturalism, racism, aboriginal land claims in British Columbia for the last 20 years.  I believe you have been given a copy of my resume, which will substantiate my broad community leadership experiences.

 

4270    It is widely accepted that as the founding chairman for both the Canadian International Dragon Boat Festival, as well as the Laurier Institution, I have had some influence in the multicultural affairs of this city.

 

4271    I believe that Canada has been uniquely determined to develop as a decentralized and culturally diverse country.  Prime Minister Trudeau first introduced the policy of multiculturalism in 1971.  Thos principles were later enshrined in the Canadian Constitution, in the Charter of Rights and Freedom, and in the Multicultural Act.  These laws declared that our cultural diversity is a fundamental characteristic of our society and an essential part of what it means to be Canadian.

 

4272    The seven distinct geographic regions of Canada, the West Coast, the Prairies, Ontario, Quebec, the Maritimes, and the two newly developed regions of the north, when you combine with the annual immigration of 250,000 to 300,000 immigrants, one can then begin to appreciate the complexity of building our country.  A multilingual television channel in Vancouver will have an important role to the ongoing development of the city, and in particular in the context of the rest of Canada.

 

4273    The primary role of the CRTC is to ensure that communication and the media in Canada adequate support and enhances the building of our great country.

 

4274    Today as a citizen, I am intervening on behalf of Local Multilingual Television, or LMtv.  Madam Chair and commissioners, I want you to know that my support for LMtv was not cast lightly.  I have reviewed both applicants and I firmly believe the LMtv proposal by far will better meet the goals of the CRTC as well as the needs of the citizens of Vancouver.

 

4275    I want to point out the fact that Rogers Broadcasting developed multilingual, multicultural broadcasting in Canada some 30 years ago, and has over time championed and advocated multiculturalism through its Multicultural Community Channel and through CFMT in Toronto.

 

4276    CFMT is not just another television station.  It is the national leader in multilingual television broadcasting.  This internationally award-winning station has been recognized by the government of Canada, by the United Nations, and by numerous prestigious international competition for its coverage and portrayal of complex and sensitive issues dealing with multiculturalism.

 

4277    Madam Chair and commissioners, it is extremely important that this new ethnic television station in Vancouver knows that we in the community expect it to play a dual role.

 

4278    The first role is that it must provide the best local service.  For most Vancouverites, this translates to the best quality television with the most local access.  Of the two applicants, LMtv will provide the best quality program, the most locally produced hours and the most dedicated resources.

 

4279    The second role is that of nation building.  From the very beginning, the philosophy of cultural accommodation has informed the Canadian psyche.  Respect and understanding for each other's identity is core value from which we have developed a multicultural country.

 

4280    The transmission of cultural dialogue from region to region is an essential element in nation building.  My knowledge of my community tells me that the people in Vancouver see themselves as part of a greater whole.

 

4281    One of the most important tools that we can use to develop citizen participation and a sense of belonging is television.  LMtv will create a dialogue between Canada's diverse regions and will help us to articulate and define our shared values.  Only LMtv can successfully facilitate nation building through its proposed Multicultural Canada program with in-depth cross-cultural programming in conjunction with its sister station in Toronto, and its bureaus in Ottawa and Victoria.

 

4282    The sharing of cultural heritage among Canadians is a process of inclusion.  The Vancouver based LMtv will benefit from the synergy as well as contribute directly towards the cultural mosaic of Canada. 

 

4283    We are mindful that in 10 years, Vancouver will have an additional 300,000 new Canadians living in this area, each requiring knowledge about multiculturalism as well as acceptance of their cultural heritage in Canada.

 

4284    The CRTC Ethnic Broadcasting policy states, and I quote, "support the continual growth of high quality, third language Canadian programming.  It will also encourage programming that promotes cross-cultural understanding, as well as promoting the full participation of all people in Canadian society."

 

4285    It is therefore imperative that Vancouver's first and possibly only ethnic broadcasting licensee has the capacity to meet the CRTC's ethnic broadcasting policy goals.  I support LMtv because I believe that it is the only applicant that can attain these stated CRTC policy goals.

 

4286    I have spoken passionately why I believe the experience and the track record of the successful applicant is the most critical factor for the CRTC to consider.  As well, I have spoken about the ongoing dialogue with other parts of Canada is essential for nation building.  I will now turn to the importance of the staying power of LMtv. 

 

4287    As someone once told me some time ago, getting married is easy.  It's staying married that's hard.  It would therefore be in the interests of the community to consider the long-term relationship and the staying power of each applicant.  The global economic consequences resulting from the tragedy of September 11^th has serious long-term financial implications to any start-up companies.  The launching of a multicultural channel in Vancouver is no exception.

 

4288    As a businessman, I believe that LMtv has a stronger business case with more dedicated resources to achieve its goals.  As a businessman, I would place my bet on Rogers' long-standing track record in multicultural programming and the demonstrated financial commitment to follow through on its LMtv stated proposal.

 

4289    It has been said that local ownership is of importance.  I submit that local ownership by in itself does not guarantee a successful community-sensitive multicultural television station.  Instead, it is the passion, determination and commitment such that Ted Rogers and Phil Lind exudes that ensures a successful television station.  These leadership qualities existed when they pioneered telecommunications in Canada from a Marconi radio set.  And these same qualities exist today as a multibillion dollar organization.

 

4290    Very few Canadians have achieved such distinction as a financial risk-taker, an incubator of companies, and a builder of a telecommunication company strong enough to withstand the financial vagaries that now exist in the world economies.

 

4291    Ted Rogers and Phil Lind are true visionaries who took the risk 30 years ago and created multilingual broadcasting in Canada.  The successful outcome has given ethnic communities in Toronto today access to our society's most powerful medium of communication.  LMtv will provide the west coast ethnic community the same communication access.

 

4292    As well, these two corporate leaders have contributed generously to many community not-for-profit organizations across the country in the belief that they must play an integral part in building a civic society.

 

4293    On the occasion of a visit to the Ottawa Central Mosque on September 21^st, our prime minister, Jean Chretien delivered a message of reassurance and tolerance.  He stated, and I quote:

 

 

 

"This is a struggle against terrorism, not against any faith or community, and Canada will not use the justification of national security to abandon our cherished values of freedom and tolerance.  We will not fall into the trap of exclusion as we have in the past."

 

 

 

4294    Looking ahead, the proposed multicultural television station in Vancouver will have an important role to play in reassuring role to play in reassuring all new Canadians how much we do cherish freedom and tolerance in our community.  The LMtv station will have the capacity and the commitment to meet the challenges that lay ahead in the building of our great nation, Canada. 

 

4295    Madame, commissioners, thank you for the opportunity for being able to express my thoughts on the matter.

 

4296    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Commissioner Cardozo.

 

4297    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Thank you Madam Chair.  Mr. Wong, thank you very much for coming here today and making your presentation.  We've met so many chancellors and former chancellors this week that I'm feeling very learned, and I'm hoping that before we leave tomorrow you'll grant us all honorary doctorates.

 

4298    MR. WONG:  You'd like it easy, don't you?

 

4299    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Well, I tell you, whichever applicant can make us an offer -- a lot of nervous laughter.  My question is in regards to your financial background with HKBC Asset Management, and you haven't talked a lot about that.

 

4300    There was one submission by another broadcaster in this area saying to the effect that they don't believe there is enough financial room for another station in the market.  Let me just get your sense of whether you feel ‑‑ I take it you've had a look at the business plan ‑‑

 

4301    MR. WONG:  Mm-hmm.  Mm-hmm.

 

4302    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  ‑‑ for LMtv and what are your thoughts about whether the market can bear the station, given the economic situation of the last few months and the last month?

 

4303    MR. WONG:  First of all, we know that the demographics of immigration.  That's the foundation of a long-term planning, the 300,000 new immigrants in 10 years here.  So that's the foundation of it.

 

4304    In terms of the financial wherewithal, we can make all types of proposal, and the best guess is really to have staying power to achieve the end.  As you know, ethnic broadcasting by itself is not a good business if you want to be bottom line oriented.  But if you take the bottom line orientation from what I call social capital point of view.  That is, not just to look at the dollar amount, then there's a very important rule.  That's why my presentations are based on social values, based ‑‑ what I believe it's important to build our social fabric of this country. 

 

4305    So you cannot put a dollar and cents in ‑‑ I refuse to fall in a trap and say it's good business or bad business.

 

4306    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  That's fine.  So I guess what you're saying there isn't profits to be made in the short term and --

 

4307    MR. WONG:  No, absolutely not.

 

4308    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  ‑‑ and what you need is somebody who's in for the long term.

 

4309    MR. WONG:  The capital cost is huge and the vagaries of the market just to depend on, you heard the previous presentation by Mr. Wong.  It's a tough business, but it's a very important business.

 

4310    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Thanks very much.

 

4311    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Dr. Milton for your participation.  Madam Secretary, please.

 

4312    THE SECRETARY:  Madam Chair, a moment.

 

4313    THE CHAIRPERSON:  It's difficult to know exactly how the rest of the day will unfold, as it should, I suppose.  We plan to sit perhaps until 6:30, but not to have as long an evening as last night, and to continue with the rest of the interveners tomorrow morning at 8:30. 

 

4314    So I thought I'd give you a heads up so that it's easier to plan, and we will hear then Lethbridge station renewal after we've had the reply. And we will give a 15 minute break between the end of the interventions and Phase IV, the reply, but you'll also have this evening to think through what else you want to tell us.

 

4315    Go ahead, Madam Secretary.

 

4316    THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  The first intervener for Multivan is Mr. Peter Legge.  Would you come forward, please.

 

4317    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good afternoon, Dr. Legge ‑‑ Legge or Legge?

 

4318    DR. LEGGE:  Legge.

 

4319    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Legge.

 

4320    DR. LEGGE:  Good afternoon, Madam Chairman and commissioners.  I'd like to appoint you as honorary publishers of various magazines that I own.

 

4321    THE CHAIRPERSON:  We will not ask our sole male commissioner to say which one.

 

4322    DR. LEGGE:  We have 20, so you can pick --

 

4323    THE CHAIRPERSON:  We're worried about the type.

 

4324    DR. LEGGE:  They're all coffee table.  Madam Chair, commissioners, my name is Peter Legge and I'm the president and chief executive officer of Canada-wide Magazines and Communications Limited, and we publish 20 magazines here in Vancouver, and we do approximately $25,000,000 in sales.  And we have magazines of the golf industry, the travel industry, hospitality industry, construction, grocery, gardening, television and business magazines.

 

4325    We're a locally owned company and we've been here in Vancouver ‑ or actually Burnaby - for almost 26 years.  We are considered the largest independent magazine publisher in British Columbia.  We are 100 percent locally owned.  We employ 108 people, professionals, writers, illustrators, sales executives, accountants, artists, graphic artists, illustrators.  And our success in this very difficult and low margin business is virtually because we are locally owned.

 

4326    I'm also a professional speaker, and I speak about 100 times a year throughout the world, and organizations and associations want to know from me how to run a local business.  What are the secrets?  What are the pitfalls?  What are the successful things that you need to know to run a local business?  And this Friday I go to London to tell those people in London how it should be done.

 

4327    I too, have an honorary doctorate degree from Simon Fraser University for my community work, which I'm honoured to have.  I'm incoming president of the Vancouver Board of Trade.  I'm vice-president of the Variety Club of British Columbia which Prince Phillip once said is the greatest children's charity in the world.  I'm a member of the Vancouver Police Foundation and then the lifetime recipient of -- a lifetime achievement award, pardon me, from the Weston Magazine Foundation.

 

4328    Now, many years ago the owners of TV Guide attempted to buy our flagship magazine, TV Week Magazine, and after they had completed their due diligence, they told us they couldn't complete the deal.  "Why", I said.  They said, "Because according to us, we'd be out of business in two years."  That was 15 years ago.  If I had a dollar for every time I was told by members of the publishing industry in the east that we wouldn't last, I'd be very wealthy today, wealthier than I am now.

 

4329    We have lasted because we are locally owned.  We're locally operated and all decisions are made by us.  We are responsive to the needs of the community and we tackle our eastern competitors with zeal, respect, energy and creativity.

 

4330    Two of our publications I brought with me today, TV Week Magazine and B.C. Business Magazine.  This week's cover of TV Week Magazine has two Vancouver policemen on it who are raising money for their fellow officers at the NYPD.  Now, why on earth would a local television magazine put two policemen on the cover?  Because it's local, because it meets the need in the community, and already the community have donated $100,000.

 

4331    National magazines could do that, but in the last 25 years they haven't done that.

 

4332    The other magazine is B.C. Business Magazine.  We are a co-sponsor the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year award winners, and one of the magazines that sponsors that is Canadian Business, and B.C. Business is considered as the number one regional business publication in all of Canada.  And on the cover - I will leave copies for you - we have the winner of this year's award, Peter Brown.  He's not on the cover of the national magazine.

 

4333    A Toronto company might do that, but they don't.  TV Week has 300,000 readers and competes every week with Toronto-based publishers.  BC Business competes every month with Toronto-based publishers, and we are considered, as I said, the leading regional business journal in all of Canada.

 

4334    So why would I be on the board of this organization, the Advisory Council of MCTV?  I'm not a shareholder of the company, nor am I a partner with any financial interest with any of the owners.  I do, however, believe that a multicultural television station would be a great asset to the city, as obviously does the CRTC, and it would be very responsive to the needs of the ethnic community.

 

4335    With due respect to the Commission and the CRTC, if the magazine industry was regulated by a national body, my company would not be in business today.  We would be out of business.  If we relied simply on putting money on the table, we would not be successful, because we didn't have the money.

 

4336    We have competed with creativity, imagination, resourcefulness, hard work, relationships and understanding of the community.  The same very reasons all of those 800,000 immigrants ‑‑ and I assume most of them moved to Vancouver to be resourceful, to be hardworking, to be relational, to be able to relate to the community.  We have done exactly that.

 

4337    My father immigrated to this country almost 50 years ago.  He came here on a ship actually called the City of Vancouver, and when he decided with my mother than London was not the place for him, she said, "Where should we move?"  He said, "Well, the place that I like the most", the place that had the most opportunities was Vancouver, British Columbia, where I could take my respect for the community and build a business, and that's what we did.

 

4338    The five distinguished owners of this station are excellent examples of what every great city needs.  They are responsible individuals who have proven their track records over many, many years of giving back to the community of their time, their talents and their monies, and this city is the better for it.

 

4339    They also have the financial resources to fulfil every single commitment made to the Commission in their application.  They have great integrity in all their business dealings, and their word is their bond.

 

4340    Ghandi once said, "Be the change you want to see in the world."  Well, Canada Wide has been that change in the magazine industry, and has proven to the magazine industry a locally-owned operation can succeed, create employment, and it can be responsible to the local market.

 

4341    The application by MVBC, with your approval will be the change this market also needs to see.  This market deserves for a multicultural television station, and this group of owners and their operators, they are committed to the ethnic community and your consideration is respectfully requested.  Thank you.

 

4342    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much, Mr. Legge, for your participation, but don't go right away.  I've made my choice, the gardening magazine.

 

4343    MR. LEGGE:  That will be $20, please.

 

4344    THE CHAIRPERSON:  I want to learn --

 

4345    MR. LEGGE:  And you get an apron to go with it for your gardening.

 

4346    THE CHAIRPERSON:  I want to learn how to grow flowers in Ottawa where the frost doesn't kill them, the sparrows eat them.  So I hope there's some advice in that magazine.

 

4347    MR. LEGGE:  But you see, Madam Commissioner, you'd have to buy an Ottawa gardening magazine, because our magazine deals only with gardening in Vancouver.

 

4348    THE CHAIRPERSON:  So very clever.  You should be a chancellor any time soon.

 

4349    MR. LEGGE:  Well, I'm waiting for Milton to go.

 

4350    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you.

 

4351    MR. LEGGE:  Thank you very much.  I'll leave these with the secretary.

 

4352    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Madam Secretary.

 

4353    THE SECRETARY:  Our next presenter this afternoon is David G. McLean of the McLean Group.  Would you come forward, please?

 

4354    MR. MCLEAN:  Commissioner and members of the CRTC, I'm delighted to be here today to present my views on the multicultural television situation in Vancouver, and I strongly support the Multivan application.

 

4355    I am chairman and chief executive officer of the McLean Group, which is primarily a real estate company.  And about five years ago my 21 year old son out of university came to me, and suggested that we get in the film and television business, and today we own Vancouver Film Studios, which is the largest set of sound stages in Canada and produces close to $600,000,000 worth of foreign television and movies.  So we have a little bit of knowledge of that industry.

 

4356    I'm also chairman of Canadian National Railway and Concord Pacific Group, so I have a little bit of involvement in the business community.

 

4357    As chairman of the Vancouver Board of Trade and the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, I had a lot to do with fledgling businesses.  And I guess what really impressed me is those people succeed in business primarily are the ones who put their own capital forward and are locally owned.

 

4358    I think that this decision ‑‑ I don't envy you, because I think you've got two good applications here.  Clearly both of them are going to give you all the things you'd ever want.  They're going to give you good quality programming.  They're going to give you all kinds of fancy benefits, but at the bottom line, I think what this community is a locally owned, multicultural station.

 

4359    There's an old maxim in business, the best management in the world is the shadow of the owner coming through the door, and that's what you're going to have with Multivan.

 

4360    I know each of the principals of this company.  They're very well financed.  They're very successful in business, and I mean very successful.  They are people of integrity.  They are going to provide you with the best locally-owned multicultural television station in this country.  They are going to do it with quality.  They are going to do it with style, and they're going to give big time to this community.

 

4361    I agreed to support their bid, and clearly I know both parties very well, as some of the other speakers have said, but I agreed to support this bid not because I have any financial interest or anything, and don't even know much about the application, other than I know the principals.  I know the quality of the people behind it, and I know in business, that's what I'd be looking for if I was looking to award this station.

 

4362    I believe in entrepreneurship from the tip of my head to the tip of my toes.  And I think Multivan will be the best locally-owned and controlled station you could possibly choose.  Your decision, as I mentioned, will not be easy, but I strongly urge you to support the initiative shown by the principals of Multivan who bring a very strong asset to British Columbia.

 

4363    I should also add that I am a former chairman of the board of the University of British Columbia, and I have a couple of doctorates so I want to throw that at you just so that we keep the balance clearly in line.  And I don't think Frank has anything to do with any of the things we're saying today other than the fact that I guess we all get our rewards in due course if we live long enough.

 

4364    Local ownership in my opinion is the key to success of a multicultural channel, and the people who own it locally have to be successful.  They have to have a track record.  Each of the people that are behind ‑‑ and there are five major principals behind this application.  Each of them in their own right is highly successful.  That's what I think differentiates them between the Multivan application and the other application.

 

4365    And at the end of the day it comes down to a judgment call.  There's no rights and wrongs in these things, but I think the edge is clearly with Multivan because they are going to bring something to this local community that is badly needed, and that is local management and local ownership.  And local ownership is very important because they control local management.

 

4366    So I urge you to have the courage to choose the station that has local initiative, and award this license to Multivan.  Thank you.

 

4367    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much, Mr. McLean for your participation.  Madam Secretary, please.

 

4368    THE SECRETARY:  Our next presenter this afternoon is Dr. William Saywell.  Would you come forward, please?

 

4369    DR. SAYWELL:  Sorry.  I was taken by surprise.  I didn't know the order.  Madam Chair, commissioners, I'm delighted to be here to support both the granting of a licence in this area which is so critically needed in the Lower Mainland, and you've heard so much about that that I won't add to it, but in particular to support the Multivan application.

 

4370    I gather I'm supposed to give a bit of my background, so let me do it briefly.  I was raised in a small logging community in Vancouver Island, did my three degrees at the University of Toronto, then pursued a career there of teaching and senior administration, ending as the vice-provost of the university. 

 

4371    I came to Vancouver in 1983.  My British Columbia wife and I returned to British Columbia in 1983 as president and vice-chancellor of Simon Fraser University.  I served 10 years, two full terms at SFU, and then went to the Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada for two terms of six years as president and CEO.

 

4372    The Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada is a national foundation created by the Parliament of Canada to improve relations and understanding between Canada and the peoples of the Asia Pacific.

 

4373    Let me just say a few words anecdotally about how this world has changed in terms of multicultural dimension.  You heard from Justice Wally Opal this morning.  Wally and I grew up in the same town, small logging town.  He was an Indo Canadian.  I was a Caucasian.  There were a lot of Chinese Canadians, never heard the word multilingual, multicultural.  The only thing we cared about was whether we could turn a double play in baseball in summer, win a basketball game in the winter, and who would get the best looking girl in the high school for the year-end dance.

 

4374    Then when I studied Chinese and Chinese history and politics at the University of Toronto in the 50's and early 60's, and I told people what I was doing, they had two reactions.  One was, "Were your parents missionaries?"  I said no, and they had this puzzled look as to why I would want to study this great culture, this great civilization and its very difficult language. 

 

4375    And the other reaction was, "Well, what the hell you going to do with that?"  Well, as it turned out I've had a pretty good life doing lots of things with that.

 

4376    There's also been a change in terms of the reaction of people from ethnic backgrounds to their own cultural legacy.  When I was chair of the Department of East Asian Studies at the University of Toronto in the late 60's, early 70's, we had Chinese and Japanese Canadian students coming to us and wanting to study Chinese or Japanese, and our sceptical reaction was, "They just want easy credit."  They didn't. 

 

4377    They had been brought up in a Canadian culture where the pressure was to assimilate, and at this stage they were saying, "I've done that.  I now want to know my roots." 

 

4378    And fortunately today, we're in a society where we all want to know each other's roots as well as our own.  There has been an extraordinary change in the fabric of this society, its tempo and it's a very important one to remind us of.

 

4379    We have heard a certain amount about the difficulty that this province is facing in terms of the economic changes that we're going through.  As a specialist on Asia, let me add to the comments that have been made about the demographics of Vancouver and the Lower Mainland.  It's going to continue to accelerate in terms of the Asian immigration to this great city and the Lower Mainland.  Asia's going through a very difficult period right now, but it will return to a very vibrant part of the global economy.  And there will be a change to younger immigrants, younger immigrants who have studied in this country, as tens of thousands now do from all of the countries of the Asia Pacific region, as well as increasingly from Mexico and Latin America and other parts of the world.

 

4380    They are going to come with a respect for our multicultural society as it exists because they studied here and because they're going to return as citizens.  It's terribly important for us to understand this group, and to continue to work with them in everything that we do.

 

4381    Now, let me get to the basic point of why I'm supporting the Multivan Broadcasting Corporation's application, and I have to say I have enormous respect for those on the other side of this discussion today, many of whom like Milton Wong I've worked with closely in community relations, and have as I say, enormous respect for.

 

4382    First, Vancouver is not Toronto.  Toronto is a great city.  I love it.  I spent 25 years there.  I raised my own family there.  My eldest daughter, Shelley Saywell is an Emmy-award winning and Gemini award-winning independent television producer, documentary producer.  I love that city.  I love its baseball team.  I love everything about it.  So this is not a knock Toronto.  Yes, it's Toronto in Vancouver.  It's not Toronto, right? 

 

4383    But I have learned that there's a fundamental difference in the fabric of that city as well as ours, and I've also learned that when you're talking about national organizations which have their headquarters in Toronto, they do take a different attitude and reaction to this city.  That surprised me but I learned it in spades when I ran SFU's first national fund-raising campaign back in the late 1980's.

 

4384    I assumed that to go to the offices in Vancouver that represented British Columbia and Western Canada, of the banks or whatever the national organizations would be, that I could make my pitch and get the contribution for my university.  Time after time after time I was told that any significant financial decision was taken in Toronto.  Significant, I mean anything over three, four, $5,000.  I spent the better part of two years on a plane going back and forth to Toronto with my hand out, asking for contributions.

 

4385    In other words, as well meaning and as national and as fully-backed by local citizens in terms of what the Rogers application would be, the focus in terms of strategic decisions, in terms of financial decisions I suspect would be a Toronto decision.  At least I have had that person experience in terms of fund-raising.

 

4386    And I've also heard today a number of discussions about Rogers have the depth of experience, the breadth of experience.  Multivan are the new kids on the block.  Can they really pull this off?  You know, I have to tell you in 1983 when I came as the fifth president of SFU from the largest university in the country, Toronto, I got that pitch over and over again, in terms of the SFU/UBC contrast. 

 

4387    When we went into a fund-raising campaign nationally, we had advisors come in and say, Don't shoot high.  You can't make it.  You're young.  You're not as well known.  Your grads aren't as well established.

 

4388    When I asked the government for support in a new area of work such as the creation of a downtown campus, again the reaction was, Well UBC is the better-established, longer, older, bigger institution.  And I said, Give us a break.  We've got to start somewhere.  Yes, we're young, but we're creative.  We're innovative.  We're flexible.  We have to start somewhere as we have the will and the ability.  We can do the job.  And I'm proud to say that that university in the last half a dozen years four or five times has become the number one university in the country in terms of Macleans ratings of comprehensive universities.

 

4389    So I don't give too much credence to saying, If you don't have the years and years of experience in the industry, and by the way, of course, one of our investors does, that you can't do the job.  You can.

 

4390    Finally, my friend, baseball companion ‑‑ he played third base, I second base ‑‑ Wally Opal this morning said, "At the end of the day, look at the track record."  Well, let me look at the track record of the people who are leading the Multivan endeavour. 

 

4391    They are extraordinarily highly successful business leaders in this community.  You know, in the last recession, there are people in this community and businesses in this community which would not have survived if Joe Segal and Bob Lee hadn't worked to let them survive, and helped them survive.

 

4392    These are people with deep pockets and big hearts.  They don't need to make a quick return on investment.  Their biggest risk is not financial at their stage in their careers, at their age.  Their biggest risk is reputational.  They're not going to let this fail.  They're going to do a terrific job. 

 

4393    I have known Joe Segal, particularly for 17, 18, 19 years.  He was on my board at SFU when I came.  He was chancellor.  He committed 17 years to that university.  He helped us build a downtown campus.  He just doesn't attend dinner parties and write cheques.  He gives of his time and talent and commitment to this community.  There is no better citizen any place in this country.

 

4394    Bob Lee went to UBC.  His wife went to UBC.  All his kids went to UBC.  In fact I was reminded of this when they gave me an honorary degree a few years ago and he was the chancellor.  Well, but at least one of your grandchildren will have the good sense to go into SFU.  But when I was in that fundraising campaign I went to Bob.  Despite that relationship with UBC, I said, Bob.  Will you help me?  He said, Of course I'll help you.  This is a community.  This isn't a competition.  And Bob opened his heart and his chequebook, and UBC is a much better institution because of the years of time and talent and support that he gave it.

 

4395    These are colleagues whose business experience, whose wealth, whose commitment to this community is unparalleled.  A track record, my God.  There's not much of a track record better than that.  Thank you very much.

 

4396    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Dr. ‑‑

 

4397    DR. SAYWELL:  Is that mine?

 

4398    THE CHAIRPERSON:  -- Saywell.  Please, beepers and telephones have to be turned off when you're in the room.  Thank you very much.  Sorry about the interruption.  Thank you for your participation.  Madam Secretary, please.

 

4399    THE SECRETARY:  Our next presenter this afternoon is Dr. Saida Rasul.  Would you come forward, please?

 

4400    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good afternoon.

 

4401    DR. RASUL:  Madam Chair, commissioners, thank you for allowing me to speak.  My name is Saida Rasul.  I was born in South Africa.  I grew up in Nairobi, Kenya, away from my family because I wanted to get educated.  I was reunited with my family in the UK where I obtained my bachelor's degree in dentistry.

 

4402    I went to the University of Toronto and got my doctor's degree in dentistry.  My husband, Firoz and I emigrated to Canada in 1981.  We have lived in Vancouver for the past 20 years.  We have three teenage daughters all born in Vancouver.  My in-laws who came to Canada after we emigrated and sponsored them, lived with me.  My parents who we also sponsored live above my office which I built five years ago to accommodate my mom and dad.  So I look after both sets of parents.

 

4403    I'm a practising dentist in the Vancouver area and have been practising for 27 years, not all 27 in Vancouver though.  My interface with the community comes from multiple fronts.  It is through my patients, my volunteer work, the schools that my children go to, my own Ismaeli Muslim community and my husband's business interests.

 

4404    Over the last 20 years, I've been involved in several community, charitable, volunteer and corporate organizations.  Currently I am serving as the vice-chair of the board of directors of United Way.

 

4405    I am also chairing the Planned Giving Committee for the B.C. Children's Hospital Foundation.  I am chair of the fund-raising committee for Outward Bound Canada.  I am director of the board of BCAA, which is the automobile association, and I sit on their audit committee.  I sit on the advisory council for the graduate studies at UBC.  I am a member of the Simon Fraser University Civic Society Dialogue Series.  I'm a member on the Parents Committee of Middlesex School.  I'm also on the advisory council of the B.C. Cancer Foundation.

 

4406    My past involvement with the community has been on the board and committees of York House School, Science World, Leadership Vancouver.  I chaired the major gifts division of the cabinet of the United Way.  I've been involved with the Aga Khan Foundation.  I was chair of the Aga Khan Health Board for British Columbia, and I also sat on the Grace Hospital Foundation.

 

4407    As you can see, I believe I have my finger on the pulse of the community, its interests, anxieties and aspirations.  Given my commitment to other institutions, when I was approached to sit on the advisory board of Multivan Broadcast Corporation in a volunteer capacity, at first I hesitated because I had just been diagnosed with breast cancer and I wasn't sure if I could pull this through with the demands on my time as well.  But as I started to understand the group that was behind this venture, their vision and the impact that they could make in the community, I was really excited to be part of the advisory group.

 

4408    The media is both a voice of the community, but also a mirror through which the community sees itself.  The diversity of Vancouver as reflected by its multiethnic, multifaced community is a strength.  I would like to describe it as a tapestry of different colours and fabric, held together by a common bond to create a beautiful picture.

 

4409    This common bond are the universal values that we all share.  Colours and fabrics give us our distinctive character.  I believe that Multivan Broadcast reflects this ethos in this group of shareholders and its advisory board.

 

4410    I have worked with several of these individuals on several community organizations and I have witnessed and experienced their commitment, their compassion, their generosity and most of all their desire to unite the diverse groups and the interests within the community.

 

4411    I can pick up the phone at any time and call any one of them and say, "United Way needs money for an east Vancouver groups.  We're desperate.  Can you please come up?"  Mr. Segal, Bob Lee, Mr. Lau, all of them will come through even in the middle of the night.  When I was asked to be vice chair of the Board of United Lee, I said to Mr. Segal, "I need to talk to you", and he said, "Don't worry.  I will be there for whatever you need.  I would be happy to support you."

 

4412    The advisory group led by Monika Deol reflect a group of active, vocal and critically thinking individuals who will ensure that the programming and the prospectives reflect those of the local community.

 

4413    I have found the owners to be open, passionate, committed, responsive, and keenly interested in delivering a unique service that not only reflects local issues and interest, but is not a duplication of other media.

 

4414    The other exciting element for me, is the group's going to provide original productions and programming will involve and engage members from their local, professional and volunteer community.

 

4415    Vancouver has a lot of talent waiting to be tapped, heard and seen.  MVBC has the capability and expertise of drawing on the best of Vancouver's talent.

 

4416    I would like to sum up with two excerpts from speeches made by His Highness, the Aga Khan.

 

4417    Culture sensitivity is something far more vigorous, something that requires deep intellectual commitment.  It requires a readiness to study and to learn cross cultural barriers, an ability to see others as they see themselves.  Cultural sensitivity is hard work.  Media must be held accountable for the way it does its work.  Not to any single authority, official or unofficial, but accountable to the organic, pluralistic communities that stretches over space and time.  Thank you.

 

4418    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much. Dr. Rasul.  We have no questions.  Your position is clear and we thank you for your participation.  We will take a 10 minute break.  We'll be back then in 10 minutes, 5:15 by my watch.

 

 

 

‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1705 / Suspension à 1705

 

‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1720 / Reprise à 1720

 

 

 

4419    THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  Our next presenter this afternoon is Lucy Roschat.  Would you come forward, please.

 

4420    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good afternoon, Ms. Roschat.

 

4421    MS. ROSCHAT:  Madam Chair, members of the  Commission, before I introduce myself, when I heard that I have to come and appear before the Commission again, I was very ready to run away, but I think after this presentation I will first have a drink and then I'm going to visit my doctor to have my head examined.

 

4422    My name is Lucy Roschat.  I have the pleasure of welcoming you to Vancouver.  Some of the commissioners I had the pleasure of meeting previously and some for the first time, and it's indeed great to have you here.

 

4423    I thank you for the permission to appear before you and the opportunity to express and share with you some of my sentiments on the important role of Multivan TV that they will be playing in Vancouver.

 

4424    I do not have a prepared speech, and I'm not going to be as articulate as Dr. Saywell nor many of the speakers before me.  All I can say is that I am speaking from my heart.

 

4425    I am not a stranger to the broadcast industry.  Many, many years ago, I was the president and CEO of Cathay TV prior to its exchanging hands to Fairchild.  My own family is also greatly involved with the broadcast industry in Hong Kong, and I might add that they still have 80 something percent share of the ratings.  I have nothing to do with that but I like to brag about that. 

 

4426    Until recently, I could call myself a banker.  I worked for an American bank, and I just thought maybe I'll interject a little.  The bank, although it's American had office space in Toronto, and it was quite a long distance to go and ask permission and approval of this and that. 

 

4427    And once again, at the very irresistible urging of some of my business associates both in Asia and in Canada, I have reactivated my own company.  It's a consulting firm, and I am now once again my own boss.  I call myself boss.  My husband calls me bossy.

 

4428    A little bit more about myself is that on my community activities, I am currently a governor of the Hong Kong Canada Business Association and also I am one of the commissioners of the Vancouver Economic Development Commission.

 

4429    I used to sit on lots of boards, 14 in all, and my husband complained that he doesn't see me any more so I'm slowing down.  However, when the shareholders of MVTV asked me to sit on their advisory council, I absolutely cannot refuse, and I will tell you why later.

 

4430    I myself am an immigrant.  I came here almost 40 years ago, and I'm giving away my age once again.  However I have the great fortune of maintaining very close ties with Asia and many different parts of the world too.

 

4431    So I believe that being so strategically positioned and in that type of business, I am entitled to feel or maybe to even brag that I have a good grasp, an understanding of the different ethnic groups from a very global perspective, and I do hope that my participation with the advisory board, I will be able to contribute my part as well.

 

4432    A little bit about the directors whom every one of them I'm so fond of.  It will be redundant if I start reiterating the long list of accomplishments and achievements in town.  However, the one point that I would like to really emphasize is that they are Vancouverites.

 

4433    They have a proven record.  They played a very leading role in the growth of Vancouver, and of course you have already heard of the many ways in which they have contributed to the community.

 

4434    From the personal side, every one of the directors -- Bob Lee.  I remember when I landed in '65, '66.  He didn't know me, but he was the type who just brought me home and invited me for my first Christmas dinner.  Turkey, they served.

 

4435    Joe, Mr. Segal, if I need anything ‑‑ and I'm just really a nobody.  If I call Joe, he said, "Fine.  Join me at lunch at Chartwell," and I can have the freedom of picking his brain and the wealth of experience that he is so willing to share with me. 

 

4436    Geoffrey.  I recall that when I was at Cathay, if I need any charity or any of the functions that needs anyone to support, I can count on Geoffrey.

 

4437    James.  I do not dare claim that I'm an expert of the Taiwanese Chinese community.  James is.  If we need any help, if I need any help, I can just call on James and we share experiences.  Even within the Chinese community we are extremely diversified.  Even the language is different.

 

4438    It goes without saying, last but not least, I knew him from when he was Dr. Allen and with his wide range and his experience in the telecommunications field, he will be a fantastic asset.

 

4439    A little attention to the advisory board.  I am truly honoured to be invited to sit on the advisory board of Multivan TV.  I cannot claim that I am of that calibre.  Yesterday we spoke of grassroots.  I truly consider myself very grassroots, but my fellow colleagues on the board, they are all doctors, chancellors.  They are distinguished, well respected individuals of the community.  These are people who will not say yes that easily to anything, but they all said yes when the directors of Multivan TV asked them to be on the advisory board.  Who am I to say no?

 

4440    Having said that, you can tell that I'm bashful.  I keep my thoughts to myself too, and I see, having met many of my fellow advisory board members, they are highly opinionated in their way.  They are independent thinkers and, like me, they never hesitate to point out what is really their opinion.

 

4441    I believe that the multicultural television based locally in B.C., it should not just be a focus.  I talked to the Multivan TV producers.  The focus is not just putting any program on for the sake of putting a program on.  It must be something of substance.  There must be a reason.  There must be a cause.

 

4442    And I give you an example.  Many, many years ago, and I'm very ashamed to admit that I went on a trip to Hong Kong and Dr. Saywell travelled with me.  Embarrassingly, he spoke better Chinese than I could, and not only that, he bargained for me when I went shopping.

 

4443    My point is that I have children.  I am an immigrant.  English is my second language.  Now I'm beginning to think Chinese is my second language too; master of none I am now.  My children are born here of German father.  They are going to be seeking their roots.  They have Chinese in their blood too, as in all ‑‑ many intermarriages that we have here in B.C.  It's quite common.  And they will be watching the multicultural television, which gives the right type of programming that we're going to be able to produce more calibre of people like Dr. Saywell, who brings true understanding together, because if we cannot have the kind of programming to really introduce what multiculturalism is all about, we're going to be a failure in business.

 

4444    In summary, I just feel that Vancouver should have a station owned and operated by Vancouverites, and not just because they are Vancouverites but because these five very special Vancouverites are such outstanding citizens, that they have contributed so much, no way are we going to let Toronto steal them.  They're successful in business.  You don't have to worry, as many people pointed out, that they're not going to carry out this operation successfully, responsibly.

 

4445    As many other speakers have pointed out, they are here because they truly care, and it's not just the money.

 

4446    THE SECRETARY:  Ms. Roschat, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but we're way past the time.

 

4447    MS. ROSCHAT:  Oh, one last --

 

4448    THE SECRETARY:  Would you wrap up quick?

 

4449    MS. ROSCHAT:  I will wrap up.

 

4450    THE SECRETARY:  Thank you.

 

4451    MS. ROSCHAT:  If I could be as passionate about Vancouver as the five individuals here, I could have landed my husband much shorter time than nine years it took me to chase after him.  Thank you.

 

4452    THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Ms. Roschak.

 

4453    THE SECRETARY:  Our next presenter this afternoon is Anne Almgren, who is with the Hispanic Community Centre Society of B.C.  Come forward, please.

 

4454    MS. ALMGREN:  Good afternoon, Madam Chairman, commissioners.  My name is Anne Almgren.  I'm a Mexican Canadian.  I am the executive director of the Hispanic Community Centre and have been an immigrant of three countries.

 

4455    At the Hispanic Community Centre, we work with new immigrants, refugees and tourists.  We're very aware of the needs of the Spanish-speaking community.  In 1996, 27,000 Hispanics were registered in the census.  We believe that there are about 30,000 now here.

 

4456    This population will continue to grow as many migrate here from California, Central America and South America.  The Hispanic community is very diversified.  We have immigrants here from 27 Spanish-speaking countries including Spain.  Although one may think we are all the same, we are not.  Our cultures vary enormously.

 

4457    When newcomers arrive in B.C., they are often lost and need a great deal of support.  The difference in cultures makes it difficult to adjust and to integrate into the Canadian society. 

 

4458    There is a very large population of Mexicans who are coming up here to learn English.  They stay for six months to two years.  They are helping the economy, but when they get here they often have problems and need help.  They run out of money very quickly when they get here.  Addressing them also in programming would be very helpful.  Many are potential immigrants.

 

4459    There is a need to have a good multicultural television program that would not only help the Hispanic community maintain their culture, but it would also involve them in programs and news that would keep them in touch with their mother countries.

 

4460    Programming would help them with issues that need to be addressed locally, information on what's going on, and give them a chance to be counted as Hispanics in this beautiful province of ours.

 

4461    Hispanics are usually painted with one brush, so to speak, drugs and crime.  Actually, we have very, very many talented and wonderful families living here, working very hard and struggling to re‑establish their lives. 

 

4462    We would very much like for all residents of B.C. to learn about our cultures, who we are and how much we want to succeed and be accepted in B.C.

 

4463    Since November (sic) the 11^th, it has become very obvious to all of us that we truly need to understand each other no matter what our ethnic background, and we should all make an extra effort to reach out to each other and get to know one another.

 

4464    MVBC may not be national, but here the commitment to build, sustain and grow, the compassion and caring for their community from the owners of MVBC is really heartfelt, and I have felt that just knowing them.  I know that they will really do all they can for our community.

 

4465    MVBC is a fair and caring local corporation who really do help their community.  The board members and owners who have been helping in the community for many years, their commitment to help us all understand and work together is obvious. 

 

4466    I believe that they will produce a fair and impartial and knowledgeable programming.  They truly are local people who understand the needs in our community.  I hope that you will give MVBC, as a truly local station, the license.  It's time that we had some locally owned corporations here in British Columbia.  Thank you.

 

4467    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Ms. Almgren for your participation in our process.  Madam Secretary, please.

 

4468    THE SECRETARY:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  Our next presenter this afternoon is Imtiaz Popat.  Would you come forward, please?

 

4469    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good afternoon, Mr. Popat.

 

4470    MR. POPAT:  Madam Chair, Commissioners, good afternoon.  My name is Imtiaz Popat.  I'm a broadcaster with Co-op Radio in Vancouver.  I produce three programs.  One is called Bulland Awaz, which is a public affairs program for the South Asian community. 

 

4471    I also produce a program called The Rational, which is a general public affairs program, and I also produce a program called Mirch Masala, which is a late night music program on radio.  I've interviewed many people in the community, and particularly with the war situation, yesterday I had an interview with a woman from Afghanistan talking about situations.

 

4472    I also interviewed Mobina Jaffer, when she became senator.  But you know what?  I haven't heard from LMtv at all, and I've heard from Multivan.  I haven't met Ted Rogers, but I have met James Ho, and I'm very impressed with him.

 

4473    I also write for the web, Indoinfo.net.  I work with filmmakers in Vancouver who are producing films and I'm very impressed with the application that I've seen with Multivan.  I've actually seen both applications and then I've seen ‑‑ in fact, I presented for LMtv the last time around in hoping for a multicultural station.  Hopefully we'll have one this time around.

 

4474    But having looked at both applications, I'm very impressed with Multivan's because it's proactive, and I think we can do what Toronto can do here in Vancouver.  I know we have a lot of talent.  You've seen the presentation and what can be done here.

 

4475    Also, because I work with Indo-Canadian Films International and in distribution and promotion of films, I know there's room for independent films from abroad and locally here on the Multivan program.  I don't see that on LMtv.

 

4476    In fact it was hard to look at the application for LMtv when we looked because it was the colour copies in black and white and it was very hard to read, but what I did see was a lot of syndicated talk shows and American sitcoms, which is not what I see with Multivan. 

 

4477    I know that there's going to be some English programming and so on, but I don't think they're set in stone from what I'm hearing from the Multivan and from James Ho, that there is an opportunity to be innovative in terms of programming that will be more reflective of a multicultural channel, and that's one of my concerns, which is why I think I would be leaning towards the Multivan and I think that that would be a good idea to do that.

 

4478    I also know a lot of the artists and filmmakers and dancers and performers in town who need to be showcased, and that hasn't happened with any other local stations and this talent needs to be showcased.

 

4479    I think you saw some of the dancers on the presentation that I went to with Multivan, and these people are saying that they need a channel that will speak to their needs that's vibrant, that's here, it's now, and I believe that Multivan can do that.

 

4480    I'm a member of the Bijwati (phonetic) Ismaeli community.  I've lived here for about 30 years.  So I've seen how the Multicultural Channel has progressed over the years and I've seen how the first multicultural channels came on and so on, and when Rogers had the initiative to start the Multicultural Channel, although on an impaired channel, and I think that there was a lack of commitment.

 

4481    But I've also seen Rogers Multicultural Channel become balkanized in how it's broken down, and right now it's very hard to figure out what programs are when.

 

4482    Numerous times we've talked to Rogers about changing that, but it hasn't been responsive.  And as a member of the Ismaeli community ‑‑ we don't speak Punjabi, we don't speak Hindi.  Some of us speak Hindi and so on and appreciate Hindi films and so on, and one of the programs that we like to watch is a program from Toronto called Asian Variety Show which is on Friday evening when (indiscernible) our prayers, because Friday being the Muslim Sabbath.  And oftentimes we tell Rogers why is that show on, but you know, we hear nothing from them.

 

4483    So one of the things that impressed me with Multivan is there is an advisory board.  It's there.  It's operating.  It's responsive.  It listens to community.  James Ho is approachable.  He's approachable to ideas and innovation that a lot of the young producers and programmers and artists are talking to.  And they are talking to the community.  I suppose those are some of my concerns that I have for why I would support the Multivan application.

 

4484    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Popat.  Your position is clearer than you think it was.

 

4485    MR. POPAT:  Thank you.

 

4486    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much.

 

4487    THE SECRETARY:  Our next presenter this afternoon is Kevin Pavlovic.  Could you come forward, please.

 

4488    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good afternoon.

 

4489    MR. PAVLOVIC:  I've got a video set up here.  I don't know if I should wait, or I could introduce the video if you like while he's sitting up.  I have a slight presentation.  Yes, sorry.

 

4490    THE CHAIRPERSON:  That's almost as good as a chancellorship.

 

4491    MR. PAVLOVIC:  I'm a self-proclaimed doctor, so hey, and whatever else you want to throw on me, I'll take it, you know.

 

4492    Madam Chair and members of the commission, my name is Kevin Pavlovic, and I'm an independent filmmaker and producer from Vancouver.

 

4493    I've requested to start my presentation with a short video showcasing some of the work done by myself and a couple of my colleagues that has been produced entirely here in Vancouver.  You'll notice that most of this work entails animation since that has been a significant portion of my related background experience.

 

4494    The last two items on the video are currently in development and serve as an example of two different animated series that are being made here in Vancouver that would appeal to a multilingual and multicultural community.

 

4495    I would just like to indicate that since the shows are in development, one of them appears in a Leica reel state or a moving storyboard type format, and has not yet been coloured or animated. 

 

4496    You can start the tape.  Thank you.

 

4497    (VIDEO PRESENTATION)

 

4498    It's got the opening titles and just a small segment of it.  It's not fully animated.  This is the Leica reel I was talking about.  The final one there.

 

4499    That's multicultural.  It's Cooking with Kyoshi, a friend of mine.  He's Japanese-Peruvian, and the show there, that one is ‑‑ I wish he was here today.  It's basically supposed to be showing different exotic animals that the chef wants to cook, and by trying to obtain the animals to cook he learns a lot about the culture or the different areas that have these animals, where they're from and why it's wrong to actually try to cook these, although he really wants to.

 

4500    Anyway, continuing on, as I said, like I've shown this tape to show some of the work I've been involved with.  As an animator, I've worked on numerous commercials, TV productions and feature films here in Vancouver for big names like Dream Works, Disney, Fox, Warner Brothers.  I've worked on feature films like Prince of Egypt, Eldorado, Space Jam and Anastasia.

 

4501    As for my involvement with live action broadcast, I've worked with CHUM's MuchMusic and City TV in Toronto, and participated recently in a reality-based TV show for CTV's Travel called The Great Race, and actually that's airing tonight at 11:00 p.m. if anyone wants to watch CTV's Travel.

 

4502    I have moved into the foray of independent film making and producing and chosen to stay in Vancouver to do this.  The point of all this is that myself and thousands of others here in Vancouver have the experience and the ability to produce high quality productions right here locally.  Why else would so many big name productions outsource the work here if not for the capability of Vancouverites?

 

4503    Recently, with the Great Race once again on CTV's Travel, I have been lucky enough to travel across Canada, stopping to visit various communities in every province in Canada.

 

4504    As you know, Canada is a diverse country with a population whose interests and concerns are varied yet uniquely distinctive within the individual communities themselves.

 

4505    The people of Vancouver, the people in my community, our views and interests can only be expressed by a channel that is locally run by people who live here and understand our needs like the people of MVBC.

 

4506    I'm sorry.  I was going to change some stuff on here and I didn't.  The reason I was going to change it ‑‑ I'm going to actually discard this ‑‑ hearing what everyone's been saying, a lot of the same things are being repeated over and over again, and I'm looking at this, I've got locally run, innovative, creative, being able to speak to people face to face, you know, different little key notes there.

 

4507    But basically what it comes down to, I'm sure you understand all that.  It's been reiterated, and it's very important so it should be reiterated, but I'm sure the picture's been clear enough for you.

 

4508    But I think as an example of as far as this locally portion of it, when Amistad came out, directed by Stephen Spielberg, a lot of people in the black community were really offended by that.  Why is this white man, not black, Jew, making this film about their history, their culture?  Who's giving him the right to do that?

 

4509    I mean, sure, he's a very capable director.  He's proven himself, but he shouldn't be doing that.  Just as if James Cameron or someone was to go in and do Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, it would have been a very different film, or the movies like Bamboozled or Malcolm X that Spike Lee did.  You know, if a white director did that, I'm sure the community would be up in an uproar against that as well.

 

4510    So basically what I'm saying with that is, we're here.  We're Vancouverites.  We want to make our own productions.  It's offensive to us to think that people in Toronto are to be dictating what we make and how we make it.  And with their financial support being back there, it's going to be hard for us to convince people without them understanding our needs and what we're looking at.

 

4511    So that's as a producer.  As a viewer, I'm from Kamloops originally, which is about four hours away from here driving, and when I go back to the community there and hang out with my friends and talk and stuff, my viewpoints ‑‑ I've been here in Vancouver for eight years now ‑‑ my viewpoints and concerns on different things in the community are vastly changed. 

 

4512    I used to agree with them on almost everything.  We saw eye to eye.  But now I mean, just living here in Vancouver ‑‑ and it's only been eight years ‑‑ I mean I see things a lot differently than I did before, and that's only four hours away.  They're in Kamloops.  They're still seeing things the same way as before. 

 

4513    So as a viewer, the people in Toronto, what they're going to make and produce, I mean they don't know what we want to see.  They don't understand the same things as us.  They don't see that.  So from that standpoint I don't want to watch stuff that those guys are producing that they think we know.  You know, it's an insult once again, almost. 

 

4514    So yeah.  I think that the stuff should be produced here locally and with MVBC being truly locally run, with the people who are concerned with the community running the station and know what we want and know what to give us.  So my support's for MVBC, and should I read my conclusions?  No.  I'll leave it at that.

 

4515    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Commissioner Grauer has a question.  You can't leave it at that.

 

4516    MR. PAVLOVIC:  Okay, sure.  No problem.

 

4517    COMMISSIONER GRAUER:  I'm glad to have this opportunity to ask you some questions --

 

4518    MR. PAVLOVIC:  Sure.

 

4519    COMMISSIONER GRAUER:  -- as a producer.  What I'd like to get a sense of from you is you worked on a lot of productions but you're beginning to do your own work.  Can you give me an idea of the   range of budget that you would be looking at to do a half-hour or an hour documentary or drama?

 

4520    MR. PAVLOVIC:  I've recently applied for a kick-start program through the Directors Guild of B.C. for a short film, actually a ten-minute short film, and my budget for that was to be $25,000 Canadian.  For a documentary, from what I have looked in, usually it's about probably $2,000, $3,000 a minute for production.

 

4521    As far as animation's concerned, I know productions in town being made right now that are half-hour episodes, or I guess 22 minutes with commercials or whatever, and those are being made from as low as $20,000 an episode to as high as, that I know of, a million dollars an episode, so ‑‑

 

4522    COMMISSIONER GRAUER:  Okay.  Let's stay away from animation.  So --

 

4523    MR. PAVLOVIC:  Okay.  As far as live action, for myself, yeah.  My experience right now in live action is that creating budgets for short films right now for 10 minutes about roughly $25,000, $30,000.

 

4524    COMMISSIONER GRAUER:  For 10 minutes?

 

4525    MR. PAVLOVIC:  Yes.

 

4526    COMMISSIONER GRAUER:  Okay.  Thanks very much.

 

4527    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Pavlovic.

 

4528    MR. PAVLOVIC:  Thank you.

 

4529    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Madam Secretary, please.

 

4530    THE SECRETARY:  Our next presenter is --

 

4531    THE CHAIRPERSON:  And thank you for the video, by the way.

 

4532    MR. PAVLOVIC:  My pleasure.

 

4533    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Go ahead.

 

4534    THE SECRETARY:  Our next presenter is Marion Toft with the Scandinavian Community Centre.  Would you come forward, please.

 

4535    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good afternoon, or almost good evening.

 

4536    MS. TOFT:  Good afternoon, Madam Chair and commissioners.  Thank you for allowing me to speak.  My name is Marion Toft, and I'm here as president of the Scandinavian Community Centre which is located in Burnaby, B.C., and which has existed since 1996.  I'd like to speak in favour of the MVBC-TV application.

 

4537    Our centre is operated by groups from the four nations, Denmark, Finland, Norway and Sweden, with Iceland as an affiliated group.  The combined memberships of our various organizations number in the thousands.

 

4538    We feel there is a need for a successful local, multicultural television station.  We also believe that such success is dependent on the ability of the station to relate to the B.C. community, to conduct programming which reflects the B.C. reality, and to do that we need the decision-makers to be based in B.C.

 

4539    Personally I come from a typical immigrant family.  I grew up in North-western Ontario with my parents speaking Norwegian in our home and all of us kids speaking English in reply.  In Norway I have about 200 close relatives.  Here there's just my mother and three sisters and then our married-into families.

 

4540    I grew up thinking we were one family among few Norwegians.  The history I learned was mainly that of the English and French in Canada.  For many years I didn't know my people had made any contribution to the building of this nation.

 

4541    I lived in Toronto for 10 years, studying and working in journalism, and the ethnic mix was quite different there from the area between Winnipeg and Thunder Bay that I was familiar with.

 

4542    When we moved to Vancouver 11 years ago, the differences in the ethnic makeup here were very evident.  Toronto-based media, even though it was trying to be national, tend to speak to much different issues and different groups than are the reality on the west coast.

 

4543    Here we have a very ethnically diverse community.  It's just a different mix from central Canada, and that is neither good nor bad.  It's just different.  And I know for certain that a TV station with decision makers in Toronto is not going to make the same decisions as those based here in B.C., and our community is a good example.

 

4544    People of Scandinavian descent make up at least 10 percent of the population of British Columbia, with more than 120,000 living in the Lower Mainland.  Our annual Scandinavian Mid-summer Festival this past spring attracted more than 4,000 attendees in two days.  The European Festival which was held at our centre attracted more than 4,000 people in one day.

 

4545    Our Scandinavian language classes now attract about 60 adult learners, from zero six years ago, and 100 children who come out every week.  As more people learn about our centre and our programs, all of our programs are exploding.

 

4546    When we launched a replica Viking ship in July, we attracted close to 1,000 people.  In Ontario we're not even a blip on the radar screen.  No Toronto-based producer is going to approve, for example, a Finnish language newscast.  Yet the Finns are one community which has passed on their language and many of their traditions to new generations.

 

4547    As an example of what Toronto-based media think of our community, I recall when in the 1980s the then crowned Prince Harald of Norway, who is now the king, was in Toronto to unveil a granite memorial stone on the Toronto harbour front.  The stone carries a plaque symbolic of Little Norway, showing two airmen walking on the top of the globe, one standing in Norway, one in Canada, 4,000 miles apart.  It was very difficult to get coverage and hardly anyone knew about him being there and why the prince was in Toronto.

 

4548    This plaque represented a significant time in Canadian and Toronto history, commemorating the establishment of an air force training facility for the Royal Norwegian Air Force at Toronto Island Airport on November 10^th, 1940.  Norway had been occupied by the Nazis, so the country contracted with Canada to train its forces here.  Little Norway was unique in that it was the first alien air force training camp in existence on Canadian soil, but commemoration of this history wasn't considered news of note in Toronto.

 

4549    After the war experiences, many of those who trained here or who arrived as refugees returned to make their homes in Canada.

 

4550    So Scandinavians are people who believe in being one with nature, who celebrate the wildflowers more than the groomed gardens, who expect even the most fashionable urbanite to put on boots and go fishing or to hike in the mountains.  We tend to assimilate into any culture that we move into.  Preservation of the environment is paramount, which is why we have become leaders in environmental technology.

 

4551    Scandinavian parliaments, most of them called storting, date back more than 1,000 years to the days of the Viking age, as does the high status that artists and storytellers hold within the society.

 

4552    Our cultures celebrate art and sport for everyone.  In B.C. Scandinavians were instrumental in building ski hills and trails.  They started a kids' soccer on the North Shore, the Seymour Ski School, The SKIwee Program at Grouse, et cetera.

 

4553    Our historical connection to Canada dates back more than 1,000 years to when in the Viking era the Norse were out exploring and searching for new land to settle.  And there have been a lot fewer breaks than people generally know of.

 

4554    Scandinavians have long held a fascination for Arctic regions and difficult terrain, and they still do today.  Roald Amundson, a Norwegian, was the first to discover the Northwest Passage, and his relatives live here in the Lower Mainland.

 

4555    He and other Arctic explorers have contributed to our understanding of the North and set standards for those who come afterwards, on top of mapping that part of the continent.

 

4556    Major Scandinavian settlement in Canada dates back to the late 1800s and continues at a slower pace today.  So Scandinavians were sought after by the Canadian government as they were northern people with an understanding of the types of challenges nature offered in Canada, many with a farming background or other trades, experienced in fishing, forestry, mining, and most were literate.

 

4557    With them came ideals of freedom and personal dignity, universal education, and concepts of stable political democracy.  The immigrants expected to be treated fairly and with respect even if they were poor, and they were organizers. 

 

4558    They built churches, schools, from grade school through college, old people's homes, hospitals, et cetera.  They were leaders often in promoting co-op stores, co-op fisheries, wheat pools and credit unions, systems they were familiar with in their homeland. 

 

4559    Today they arrive often as leaders in technology and finance.  One farmer, Matthew Anderson, believed Canada should have a medical care plan, similar to the ones which had operated in Norway since 1890.  He began his research in Norway in 1919, and by 1938 he'd established a complete health insurance program in the rural municipality of McKillop No. 20 in Saskatchewan.  This developed into the Matt Anderson plan, which was the forerunner to Medicare.

 

4560    So most of the people in this room will know little of this Canadian history, because as far as the history books and the media go, we virtually don't exist.  As a Canadian, I see that as a huge loss.

 

4561    We need a local TV station where our many artists, storytellers, TV and radio producers and performers can share our Canadian story.  We need some programming in our own languages so we can maintain our languages, which is so vital in this day of globalization and international business, and also vital to the mental well-being of our aging immigrants who get out less and less.

 

4562    We need a means of reaching out into the general community with information about our events, our language and cultural classes, and because ours too has become a rich, ethnically diverse community, we need one place where we can go to find out about the local activities, history, and to view the movies of other ethnic groups, which represent our friends but also our families.

 

4563    We can get lots of U.S. or Toronto programming from other stations.  We need one which will celebrate the B.C. experience with the decisions making here close at hand.  Therefore we support the MVBC-TV application.  Thank you for your time.

 

4564    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Ms. Toft.  Commissioner Cardozo.

 

4565    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Thank you very much for your presentation.  I just have a couple questions about the Scandinavian communities.  You're talking primarily about the five communities, are you, from the five --

 

4566    MS. TOFT:  Yes.

 

4567    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  -- Scandinavian countries?  Of the five, which are the largest that are in the Lower Mainland?

 

4568    MS. TOFT:  The largest are the Norwegian and the Swedish communities.

 

4569    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Okay.

 

4570    MS. TOFT:  In the Lower Mainland, they're both close to 35,000 in each community, and then it sort of goes the Finns, the Danes, the Icelanders.

 

4571    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Yes.  It's interesting because across the country it varies.  In Manitoba, for example, you have a large Icelandic community, in Northern Ontario a large Finnish community.

 

4572    MS. TOFT:  Yes.  We have particular areas, but it's mainly north and west because the land suited, and attempts in the east to settle weren't really happy ones often.

 

4573    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Yes.

 

4574    MS. TOFT:  And other than those who came after the Second World War or during the Second World War who settled in Southern Ontario, but a lot of them have since come here.  I meet a lot of veterans here.

 

4575    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Okay.  Now, I take it you're supporting MVBC because they've got a certain number of hours for the five Scandinavian groups, and from what I'm reading ‑‑ and I can be corrected later ‑‑ LMtv doesn't have any hours for Scandinavian languages.  Your primary support for Multivan is the hours that they're --

 

4576    MS. TOFT:  Well, not only will they provide us with hours, but I travel back and forth to Ontario a couple of times a year at least.  I mean, the distances are great, and we feel that we really would like to see the decision-making out here, and they have recognized ‑‑ Rogers hasn't come to us saying that they were willing to give us any time at all.

 

4577    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Now, even the hours that MVBC is putting forward aren't a lot.  It's eight hours in a month, and if you look at the Norwegian and Icelandic, it's an hour a month each.  So there's probably going to be a half hour every two weeks or an hour once a month.

 

4578    Two questions on that.  Is that better than nothing or is it close to nothing, and --

 

4579    MS. TOFT:  Well -- sorry.

 

4580    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  -- secondly, if you can just tell me in that context to what extent these various communities, the people from those communities still speak those languages?  Or do you see a fair amount happening in English?

 

4581    MS. TOFT:  Yes.  To answer the second question first, a large part of our active community now came to Canada after the war, and so they are all language speakers, and then there are people like me where I learned my language later.  I went to Norway and studied and picked up the language that way. 

 

4582    My children study the language now.  So I don't know the numbers, but certainly the people I encounter at the Scandinavian Community Centre, the majority speak the language still, and it goes down with each generation, but now that we've got courses, the upswing in interest is quite substantial because there's something available and there's a place for the children to gather and speak to other children in their language, which is what's essential to maintaining it.

 

4583    Because we don't have particular areas of settlement in the Lower Mainland, we don't have those communities as many of the other cultural groups have, and as long as we can show that we need more time, I mean we can work on MVBC.  We're used to doing some degree of lobbying.  But any time is better than nothing.

 

4584    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Yes.

 

4585    MS. TOFT:  We used to have programming and people really miss it.

 

4586    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Are the five languages ‑‑ excuse my ignorance on this, but are the five languages quite distinct from each other?  People who speak one, would they speak another?

 

4587    MS. TOFT:  Well, a lot of people can understand cross-over except Finnish.  Finnish is a language that's very distinct, and with the Finnlanders, they very much maintain their language right the generations, the children and grandchildren, because of the difficulty of the language, I guess.  You know, the parents and grandparents still speak the language heavily.  And so that language is passed down more.  So even though their numbers are lower, they probably have a much bigger group that speak it.

 

4588    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  And within the communities if some of that is in English, would people from, say, the Swedish community find Danish or Norwegian programming of interest?

 

4589    MS. TOFT:  Yes.  We tend to follow each other's but especially if there are movies or whatever, and then the news, you know, if you can get an update on news.  So we would follow what the others are doing as well.  I mean, we all work together, and the more we're together the more interested we are in each other's programs.

 

4590    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  So it's fair to say that you've got an hour for Norwegian, but the Norwegian community may be interested in some of the stuff that happens in the Swedish and Danish programs?

 

4591    MS. TOFT:  Oh, definitely, and if there's movies we'll watch any of them.

 

4592    COMMISSIONER CARDOZO:  Thanks very much.

 

4593    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you very much, Ms. Toft.  Thank you for your participation.  Madam Secretary, please.

 

4594    THE SECRETARY:  Our next presenter is Alvaro Mendes.  Would you come forward, please.

 

4595    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good afternoon, Mr. Mendes, or good evening, Mr. Mendes, or is it evening in Vancouver?

 

4596    MR. MENDES:  There's no windows.  Good afternoon, Madam Chair and commissioners.  I'm experienced in radio and television, and I am currently producer at the CHMB of the programming of both Portuguese and Brazilian. 

 

4597    I'm here to support the Multivan, and I would like to speak as someone of the Portuguese-speaking community.  I have been involved with this particular community for over 13 years.  During these years, I assisted the local, non-profit Portuguese soccer club make its name known in the community and locally. 

 

4598    I was also a past president of this club that helped me associate with other Portuguese-speaking immigrants from various countries other than Portugal and Brazil.

 

4599    They came to this land in the same way as I did, by making Canada their home, working hard to raise their families and educate their children about their heritage.

 

4600    As a Portuguese Canadian, I would like my children to have the opportunity to continue with all our culture and traditions so that they are able to pass their ethnic backgrounds to the generations that follow.

 

4601    One of the major difficulties that the new immigrants face upon arriving in Vancouver, it's the lack of information about services, clubs or associations that are available through the city.

 

4602    An ethnic channel in a variety of languages and backgrounds can provide a new immigrant information, not only on their own culture but also of others as well as what Vancouver as a city has to offer.

 

4603    This will be an enormous way to reaching out the viewers of all ages to learn and associate value information about their country, history and of the other ethnic groups, by increasing their knowledge about themselves and others.

 

4604    I believe many people who have lived in Vancouver all their lives still do not know very much about it.  These people are unable to appreciate this very beautiful and colourful city.

 

4605    Vancouver is a rapidly growing city.  Local multicultural channels with local produced program such as news, community information, talk shows and movies are only a few ways that the new immigrant can learn of other cultures and new languages in the new city.

 

4606    This medium will also allow children of all ages a learning experience of other races and ethnic traditions with a better understanding for each other.

 

4607    We will appreciate the opportunity to present a diverse multiethnic Vancouver by demonstrating with our very own local talent.  Having locally experienced people with the same backgrounds as the viewers producing the programs will permit each group to express their ethnic knowledge to every viewer in their own way.

 

4608    This will give us the opportunity to familiarize ourselves with the diversity of Vancouver's multiculturalism and all it has to offer.  We live in one of Canada's most beautiful cities, and it's time that we show you how truly beautiful Vancouver really is.

 

4609    Once again, I am one of the Portuguese community.  I would like to thank you for this time and extend my continued support to Multivan with their application for the ethnic television license.  Thank you.

 

4610    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Mendes, and have a good evening.

 

4611    MR MENDES:  Thank you.

 

4612    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you for participating in our proceedings.  Madam Secretary, please.

 

4613    THE SECRETARY:  I'd like to invite Paul Wong to come forward, please.

 

4614    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good evening, Mr. Wong.

 

4615    MR. WONG:  Madam Chair and commissioners, my name is Paul Wong, and I was born and raised in Vancouver.  My father immigrated from China when he was 15 years old.  Because he did not understand English, he had no choice but open a hand laundry.  He started with one hand laundry and one table. 

 

4616    When I attended UBC, I wrote a thesis on how I was going to build the biggest and most modern commercial laundry in Canada.  The professor did not believe me, but I made it a reality.  We service most of the big hotels and hospitals in Vancouver.  UBC was my first and biggest account.

 

4617    My father said, "If you are successful, you should return something to the community."  This was exactly what I have done. 

 

4618    I am a member of Lions International, which is the biggest and best service organization in the world.  It has a membership of 1.4 million in 44,950 clubs in 185 countries.  I and 10,000 Lions in B.C. fully endorse MVBC-TV's application for an ethnic station in Vancouver.  It is about time that we have a station who will publicize our activities and achievements.

 

4619    I am a member of the Vancouver Chinatown Lions Club.  We are volunteers and our mission is to create and foster a spirit of understanding among all people for humanitarian needs by providing voluntary services through community involvement and international cooperation.

 

4620    Our government can only do so much to help, and it is up to volunteers like us to come through with financial support whenever it is required.  Every year the Vancouver Chinatown Lions Club raises over $100,000 for charity. 

 

4621    We make substantial donations to Library Square, UBC Scholarship Fund, B.C. Cancer Foundation, Vision 20/21, Mount St. Joseph's Hospital, Canuck Place, CHILD Foundation and, most recently, the relief fund for the catastrophe in New York City. 

 

4622    I was chairman for all these fund-raising functions.  With the help of MVBC-TV to publicize our fund-raising functions, there is no limit to the amount of funds that we can raise for a good cause.

 

4623    Lions International convention is the biggest convention in the world and MVBC-TV can help us to bring it to Vancouver.  As the director of the Convention Centre, in 1987 I submitted a bid for the convention for Vancouver.  We lost out to Denver because we were unable to get any television coverage for the convention. 

 

4624    If MVBC-TV is successful in its application, I will submit another bid and this time I will be successful.  The economic impact will be enormous as 40,000 Lions will leave behind $40 million.  It will be like Expo '86 over again.

 

4625    The Lions from all over the world will be so impressed of the hospitality and beauty of Vancouver that they will want to return with their families and friends.  There will be a boom in the tourist industry and everybody will benefit from it.

 

4626    Vancouver Chinatown Lions Club has the best youth project in Lions International.  That is the sponsorship of the violin orchestra at Lord Byng Secondary School, the Care Program at Garden City Elementary School, and the Leo Clubs at Britannia Secondary School and Langara College.  These projects have kept these students busy and out of trouble.

 

4627    With the help of MVBC-TV to showcase these projects, it would go a long way to abolish bullying and the drug problem in our schools.

 

4628    Vancouver has many ethnic communities and only the Chinese, Italian and East Indian communities have any Lions Club.  With the help of MVBC‑TV, we will be able to charter many new clubs in the other ethnic communities.  With more members we will be able to do more to help those who are less fortunate.

 

4629    Bob Lee, Geoffrey Lau, James Ho and Joe Segal are great supporters of the Vancouver Chinatown Lions Club.  They were responsible for receiving the Order of Canada and the President's Medal, which is the highest award given by Lions International. 

 

4630    Bob Lee is the patron of our annual Medal of Merit Award Dinner.  The Medal of Merit is the highest award given by Lions International to a non‑Lion who has made a big contribution to the community.

 

4631    Mayor Philip Owen and Dr. Victor Ling, head of cancer research at Vancouver General Hospital, will be honoured on March 17, 2002.  The net proceeds will be donated to the B.C. Cancer Foundation.  With the help of MVBC-TV to publicize this event, it would encourage more people to make contributions to their communities.  As you see the Lions organization and MVBC‑TV can form a powerful team to improve the quality of life in our community.

 

4632    The only way we can improve the quality of a product is to allow competition.  The shareholders of MVBC-TV know that this is not a money-maker, yet they are willing to sacrifice their money and reputation to prove that they can produce a superior product.  I do hope that you will give the people who work and live in Vancouver the opportunity to demonstrate their capability.  Remember, today's rookie may be tomorrow's superstar.

 

4633    Thank you for giving me the opportunity to present myself.

 

4634    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Mr. Wong.  Madam Secretary, please.

 

4635    THE SECRETARY:  Our next presenter this evening is Shirley Chan.

 

4636    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Good evening, Ms. Chan.

 

4637    MS. CHAN:  Good evening, and thank you.  Madam Chair and commissioners, thank you for having this hearing tonight and for giving me the opportunity to speak.

 

4638    I'm here to support the underdog.  It's sort of funny to say that about millionaires, but there you go.  And that's because I have a history of supporting, I guess, causes that may have seemed lost but which can surprise you in the end, because our community is one that if you have people's attention, if you can make your case, you can often come out ahead.

 

4639    Who am I and why am I here?  Well, I was born in Vancouver's Downtown Eastside to Chinese parents.  I was educated here and grew up on, I guess in some ways, the streets of Chinatown.  It was a safe community then and I felt very secure growing up there, but of course I was also fairly isolated.

 

4640    The Chinese community were not welcomed very much outside of Chinatown when I was born, and of my immigrant parents, my mother was born here but she'd gone back to China for a time, and so her English is not very good, and I sort of honed my teeth going from house to house to visit one neighbour and another to plead with the city not to tear down our home.  It was during the days of urban renewal, and we fought to save our home and our community from freeways and urban renewal.

 

4641    I like to think of myself as a child of Vancouver.  That's until I look in the mirror and I see the grey hair, but it's always easy to forget how old you are when you're not staring at your own face.

 

4642    The community that I helped to found was called the Strathcona Property Owners and Tenants Association, and that was back in 1968 when we worked hard to save our community, and I believe that today we have what is still a vibrant Chinatown struggling against some of the drug problems that exist so obviously on our streets.  But now I'm still working on the Vancouver agreement in my current role and hoping through a partnership of three levels of government and community that we will actually manage to make a real difference and turn that community around, and I see MVBC as very much part of that rebuilding of our city.

 

4643    I'm here largely because of the people.  I'm here for the people.  First there's the fact that, of course, Bob Lee phoned me up and you don't say no to Bob.  But also because I got to know Bob very well, and I have to say this.  I was chair of UBC's Board of Governors when Bob was chancellor. 

 

4644    That's also how I got to know Joe Segal, because you see, I'm not made from the same fabric as these people, you know, these successful entrepreneurs and businessmen. 

 

4645    I'm someone who's decided to spend my life working for community and I've spent 30 years ‑‑ well, more than 30 years now; I hate to admit it ‑‑ 30 years working in the community on smaller issues and on helping with housing or the homeless or any of those kinds of issues.  And I'm not an expert certainly in the broadcast field, although my son, who's 17, is an aspiring actor.  He actually has a part wearing a bunny suit this Friday, a pink bunny suit.

 

4646    These are people whom you've heard ‑‑ the shareholders.  They're putting their money where their mouth is.  It may be a bit of a gamble.  I don't think so.  They have a track record of success.  They have a track record of community commitment.  They have worked, thrived, raised their families and made Vancouver their home.

 

4647    They're pretty special, and I know that our community can count on them to be there when they need ‑‑ if you need something you can call them up, and that they'll be there.

 

4648    I'm here because of the people of Vancouver.  You know, we're almost a million people who fit the ethnic diversity community label, term, whatever you want to call it.  I'm here because of the children, the children whom I hope will grow up learning and seeing and feeling the importance of tolerance, understanding and learning about other cultures, other religions, other ways of doing things, and being part of it, being able to share in that.

 

4649    I'm here because old people like my mother, and soon myself, I guess, will have a chance to put aside some of the fears that they had when they were younger.  You see, I had uncles who went to war.  I grew up with my mother's refrain echoing in my ears, "Don't forget what happened to the Japanese.  Don't forget what happened to the Japanese during the Second World War." 

 

4650    I'm working right now with a group called the Children's International Summer Villages.  My children belong to this organization.  My son went to Cairo this year and spent a month talking, planning, working, learning about other children, and they represented 19 different countries.  The leaders came from five different countries, and they included Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Turkey.  And then we also hosted a village in Vancouver this past summer, and I was chair of the fund-raising committee, and Joe Segal agreed to serve as my honorary fund-raising chair in order to raise the money for this village because it cost us about ‑‑ it's pure volunteer and it cost $45,000 for us to host a village here in South Ridge School in Surrey.  And we brought together children from 12 different countries - they're 11 year olds - and they started off being afraid of each other and learned instead to love one another.

 

4651    And in my own home I had a boy from Maine, United States, a boy from Jordan and a boy from Turkey, and I was host for a weekend for these three young men, and watched as they helped each other and influenced each other, and it was quite a wonderful experience, going out and cooking breakfast and doing all these things because it gives these people a chance to learn about each other.  And the objectives of this organization is peace through friendship and understanding and you start with them when they're very young.  And I believe that a multicultural channel, MVBC, can help us learn about each other, understand each other better. 

 

4652    We do local work where we visit ‑‑ we take children and they visit temples ‑‑ so that we have a chance to learn about each other's cultures.  And it really is amazing because for me, I thought that Maxine Hong Kingston's book was one of my first opportunities to read a book that resonated with myself, and she's an American. 

 

4653    So the idea of having local producers, local talent, local owners and managers, I think, speaks to me.  I believe that these are people who will be here for our people, and I'm supporting this because of the people, and there's nothing like 9‑11, September 11^th, that brings home how important it is to have tolerance in your own community.

 

4654    And you scratch the surface a little bit ‑‑ Thobani, you know, what she said upset so many people, but then the hate that came pouring out was really scary.  So we need to talk too about some of these current affairs, current issues, have debates ‑‑ we debate at our dinner table too ‑‑ about what it means to be of a different culture, what it means to live in a world which is a global society, a global economy and yet which is still torn apart by war, lack of understanding and hatred.

 

4655    So unless we can start to bring some of these issues together and discuss it and debate it and have our own community really understand each other, learn about each other, grow with each other, I think we desperately need a license for a multicultural channel so that we can understand each other better.

 

4656    So that's why I'm here.  I'm here because I have children and I have hope.  I have hope for the future.  I have hope that our world will be a better place.  I have hope that we will achieve peace through friendship and understanding, and I believe that MVBC will help us along that road.  So that's my intervention.  Thank you very much.

 

4657    THE CHAIRPERSON:  Thank you, Ms. Chan.  Thank you for your participation.  Madam Secretary, I understand we have committed to hearing one more intervener?  No?  That's it?

 

4658    Ms. Chan, you're the dessert on our plate today.  You're the last intervener of the day.  We will resume then at 8:30 tomorrow morning with the remaining interveners.  Thank you.

 

‑‑‑ Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1830, to resume

    on Thursday, October 18, 2001, at 0830 / L'audience

    est ajournée à 1830, pour reprendre le jeudi

    18 octobre 2001 à 0830

 

"I hereby certify the foregoing to be a true and accurate transcript of the proceedings herein, to the best of my skill and ability."

 

Marilyn Jamernik