ASL – Virtual Discussion Session related to VRS Review (Day 1, Part 1) – 1 of 4
Video Transcript
Session 1: Darrell Villa - Consultation participant
Eileen: We’ve just started the recording.
Before we begin, I acknowledge that I'm joining this call from the traditional ancestral unceded territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh nations. I recognize that others have joined virtually from different locations and therefore are different traditional indigenous territories. I invite you to take a moment to reflect in gratitude and pay tribute to the elders wherever you are.
So, thank you so much for joining today. My name is Eileen, and my pronouns are she/her/elle. I'm a woman with long brown hair, and I'm wearing a red colored shirt. I will be your facilitator this session. We have three facilitators with us today, and we will start with Nirmala. If you could introduce yourself, please.
Nirmala: Yes, hello. My name is Nirmala. Thank you for being here. I am a woman of South Asian descent. I'm a CRTC commissioner. I have brown hair, and I'm wearing a hot pink shirt today. Nice to meet you.
Eileen: Thank you, Nirmala.
Joanne. Joanne, that was beautiful signing. You are muted. Your signing came through beautifully, which is brilliant, and if you could unmute yourself.
Joanne: There I go. Okay. Now, you all know who I am anyway. I'm a Caucasian woman with short blondish hair and red glasses, and I'm wearing a navy shirt with a scarf with lions on it, just so you know, and I, too, am very grateful for having this opportunity today.
Eileen: Thank you, Joanne. Alicia.
Alicia: Hello. My name is Alicia. I am a woman of Hispanic descent. I have long dark hair. I'm wearing a gray jacket. I am the vice chair of broadcasting at the CRTC, and I am joining you from Montreal today. Thank you. I'm very happy to be here and hear what you have to say.
Eileen: Thank you, Alicia. And, Darrell, if you would introduce yourself, please.
Darrell Villa: Yes. Hello, there. My name is Darrell Villa. I live in the greater Toronto area. I am quite an extensive user of the VRS service. As you can see here from what I have to talk about, I'm very looking forward to sharing my experiences on VRS with you today.
Eileen: Fabulous. Thank you, Darrell, and welcome.
Darrell Villa: Thank you.
Eileen: So, we have three topics that we're going to cover, and then we will have time for additional thoughts, as well. The first topic is going to be on your experience using VRS, then we’re going to talk about your experience with VRS customer service, then we’re going to talk about any experience you have using VRS to contact 911, if that's applicable.
After that, if you have any other areas that you want to comment on about VRS, we have time for that, too.
So, the first area is your experience using VRS. We want to learn from you what aspects or features of the service work well for you. We also want to know if you've had any challenges and what those are, and we really welcome suggestions for improvement.
So first off, what’s worked well for you?
Darrell Villa: I think I would prefer just to be able to illiterate what I’ve got to say whether it’s positive or negative because then I’ll just get a little mixed up in my delivery, so if I could just enumerate my experiences, I will give them to you, and if I find that my interpreters are lagging behind, I’ll look to them for some cues so that I can keep up to them or stop and wait for them to catch up to me, so there’ll be, there’ll be some delay back and forth so just bear with me as I present my comments.
Eileen: That sounds great.
Darrell Villa: All right. I do have, prior to the VRS service, there was a lot of frustration in the deaf community. I would say more or less over 10 years, and finally when we did get our VRS service, we were rather disappointed. It wasn't very, a good service. It crashed. The deaf community felt as though, you know, all this time spent lobbying for VRS service was almost a waste of time, and then when we got the approval for the VRS, there should have been some kind of consultation as to what the expectation should have been from the deaf community, and we felt that that was a decision made by the entities and the powers that be about providing the VRS service without consulting with the deaf community. The biggest issue is the speed. The internet speed is one major issue. Connectivity is that we’re waiting forever and ever and ever to connect with the caller, and when you do make a connection, the screen freezes and the call drops, and, you know, this would be, multiply that situation by, you know, it’s really hard to explain but, you know, when you’re working on a time sensitivity and the call freezes or the call drops, it gets very, very frustrating, and it’s hard to contain that emotional anger that is experienced when you’re experiencing that frustration.
Also, one after the other, issues would arise. For example, the communication with the operator, and then you couldn't copy and paste that information from the screen. That's a source of frustration. I’d be forced to either have to watch the interpreter and at the same time type on and cut and paste onto my e-mail and type, and it didn’t provide for a seamless service. The design appearance of the interface and platform wasn't very, very user friendly.
So, from a herring perspective, you could just imagine for a moment that if you got, took a phone call and you’re getting another phone call back from the 1950s and saying, sorry, tough luck, it’s, you’re on your own kind of thing, and you’re, you’ve got a child that's sick, you’ve got an emergency, and the technology isn't there and you’re just trying to catch up to it. That’s kind of the experience that I experienced when using the VRS. We really do deserve a better technology, a better platform, a better platform design, and I do have more recommendations that I’ll be making. So, you know, to say it’s a really good service, well, I don't know, but at the same time, we’re dealing back in a platform that’s developed back in the 90s, and it’s behind the times.
Eileen: Okay. If, if any of the commissioners have any clarifying questions, I do want to make sure that there is space for the commissioners to ask their clarifying questions, and you can indicate that by putting your hand up.
Darrell Villa: Yeah, that's why I paused from time to time to give them an opportunity. When my, when the interpreter’s catching up and I see that the, I have caught up, that the interpreter’s caught up to me, and I don't see a hand come up from any of the commissioners, I’ll just continue with my deliberation if that's okay.
Eileen: Great. Thank you.
Darrell Villa: Oftentimes, you know, when it was, you know, when you’re banking online or anything to do with the internet, the operator would struggle, it would have some of them not being able to understand what I was saying. Some would say they couldn't process the call. What I would recommend, especially with newcomers to Canada, you know, we're getting a lot of newcomers moving to Canada, and they don't possess signing skills. Once they have some kind of identification that could be a screening sheet and the operator will know that this caller that’s coming in to use the feature, they have to learn how to be able to use the functionality of the device, and really that is something that we’ve told the 9550 customer service, we’ve been told they’ll pass that along, but we’ve done that and we haven’t seen any improvement to the functionality of that service. There are a whole list of a lot of things that really prevent the full range of accessibility for using the VRS.
Also, I have seen in the United States many times, I really envy Sorenson Communications video relay service. You know, if you want to order a pizza, you can just punch on the button on the application, you, you plus the phone number that you want to call, the VRS operator comes up, they make the phone call, they place the order. In Canada, you can't do that. Or, if you’re driving a car and something’s wrong and you can't use your phone, you know, you have to have a paper and pen. It creates a lot of work. It’s, it’s not providing a lot of accessibility when as a hearing person can just press a button and send off their order and in Canada we can't do that yet. That’s very, very disconcerting for the deaf community.
Eileen: Again, I offer time to the commissioners if you have any clarifying questions.
Darrell Villa: Please do. Please do.
Eileen: Just a moment. Nirmala. You're on mute there, Nirmala. If you could take yourself off mute.
Nirmala: My apologies. Hello, Darrell. Thank you so much for this. Your answers have been amazing. Very informative. Thank you. I have one quick question. You talked about cut and paste. I’d like a little more information about cut and paste. When do you have to use that?
Darrell Villa: Boy, I gotta go back to what I said and try and remember what I said. There are occasions oftentimes where I have to connect to a particular e-mail address. I can't click and drag it from the VRS screen when I'm on a phone call with a VRS operator. The interface forces me to either write it down or copy it down or type it on my laptop. I can't, you know, go and click and drag on my keyboard and cut and paste or copy and paste. I have to go into a separate window, separate platform. The functionality isn't there. I need some kind of improvement in the functionality and platform design to make that operation a seamless operation. Secondly, if you were ordering pizza, you know, the phone, the phone number populates that you’re calling and all you have to did is click on it. Like right now my phone will call a voice enabled number, but I want it to be able to click on VRS enabled number, which automatically routes the call to a VRS operator who can then make the call on my behalf. Does that answer your question, Nirmala?
Nirmala: Yes, that, that, that does answer the question. I just wanted to have a little more information and that's been quite helpful. There’s another area that I’d like to ask about and that's about banking. What about operators struggling with processing banking calls? Can you expand on that?
Darrell Villa: By all means. I’d be happy to. In my dream world, it would be nice to be able to hit the screen sheet and then send the operator a sheet that tells the operator exactly, you know, they understand exactly what I'm wanting to accomplish when I’m making an online banking call, so when I’m asked what the problem is or what I need to do at the bank, like maybe I want to download or do a transfer from one account or a transaction history from a period of time let’s say from January 1 of 2022 to December 31 of 2022, and when the, the hearing caller is providing that information, then it’s easier for the operator to know what this is, and right now we can't do that, and secondly, especially with newcomers that don't have sign skills we have operators that don't understand them. They could use pictures. Then it would help the VRS operators understand where these newcomers are coming from, what they want to get across, and it would be a lot of time savings, but like now the amount of time that’s absorbed and consumed and correcting or mitigating signs that are used by these newcomers and the operators not being familiar with that style of signing or particular country where that newcomer is from, it absorbs and consumes a lot of time on the phone call.
Eileen: Nirmala, did you have any other further comments?
Nirmala: Yes, sorry. I'm, I’m juggling the technology here. It’s a little bit difficult, a lot to juggle. Forget VRS. Even just my laptop is complicated enough. Can you tell me why the chat function in VRS is deficient to give such background? Do you have any insight into that?
Darrell Villa: Well, as I could, as I said earlier, we're dealing with 80s technology with the platform. It’s very limiting. The functionality is very limited. I mean, I would suggest that you probably contact IVS. They would be able to tell a little bit more about the functionality of the platform. I’m not, I really don't want to see us use the IVS platform anymore. You know, if you could get into seeing what the deaf community really wants, the policies and procedures, I mean, Sorenson’s at where it's at. They got it figured out, and you would be wise to consult with Sorenson. We really want to have that system here because one day you and I could fly to the United States and you could see how these other VRS platforms work, and you would just fall over your feet if you see how well these functionalities were working. We’re really, really envious of the Sorenson platform because it’s, it’s the cat's meow. I mean, Canada is a better country, we know that, but as far as the chat function we can't copy and paste in the chat function. What I really want to see from the VRS platform is that part of the conversation when the operator types something out or whether the functionality is they can actually click and drag, cut and paste, or maybe the operator can just send it to my e-mail right from their platform and integrate it, you know, and if the call drops, then what do I do? What do I tell them, you know, and if, you know, at this point in time where the functionality is where you click, it automatically scrolls and drags and cuts the whole or copies the whole piece. All I want is a segment or a sentence or a phrase in that dialogue that allows me to share that, so now I'm going to let the interpreters switch and repin my interpreter, so bear with me for a moment.
Darrell Villa: I seem to have lost the interpreter.
Eileen: Yes, the functionality. I think you just got it. Okay. Yes, I have, Heather. Okay. Hi, Heather. Great. Thank you. Now, Nirmala, did have you a question?
Nirmala: I have one more question, Darrell, at this point. You know, there's been a lot of discussion about connection of VRS calls and how some people hang up before the call has actually come through because they think it’s a scam call or, you know, some sort of solicitation. I would love to hear if that is some of the stuff that you've been seeing because I notice that in, in, in your answers you had said that there were disconnection problems and the app takes forever to open, and I'm sure that causes people on the other end to just give up on the call, hang up. Can you tell me a bit about your experience with that?
Darrell Villa: Yeah, I don’t know if we misunderstood anything that I said in the past, but I’m, I never talked about scams or anything about, you know, being disconnected. I'm just talking about this actual platform that’s being used, so, you know, like, if we’re connecting, it takes a long time, like, you know, it’s, the processing for it to actually come up, the video, you know, 70 to 80%, maybe even 90% of the time that that happens, so, you know, it’s very, you know, oh, that’s fine, usually I’ll just say, I’ll get that information conveyed myself, so I wasn't talking about scams, but I was just, you know, when some of those urgent calls come through or something that I need very quick, it’s not a quick process for me to get connected to the individual that I'm calling so therefore I give up.
Eileen: I'm just going to move things over to Alicia for a moment here. Alicia?
Alicia: Thank you, Eileen. Darrell, I have a question on, you mentioned earlier that the platform crashed in the beginning, and I'm wondering, since you are a long-term user of the VRS service, whether this is something that is still an issue or whether you have seen improvements.
Darrell Villa: Worse. I feel like it’s worse at the moment, actually, and it’s been ongoing for 10 years, in my opinion.
Alicia: In terms of the different functionalities that you’ve expressed are still not adequate, have you seen improvements over the years?
Darrell Villa: Nothing, no.
Alicia: Thank you for your answers.
Eileen: Appreciate your honesty, and thank you, Alicia, for those clarifying questions. Are there further areas that you wish to comment on, on the actual service itself, Darrell?
Darrell Villa: I do, yes. Okay, I really want to emphasize the deaf community. You know, the deaf, I am, I identify as being gay, and, you know, I use interpreters often, but, you know, it’s, sometimes the folks don't match my style but, and some folks that I use get very upset or perhaps, you know, I call on through VRS and it’s my ex, so what I'm trying to say, you know, like, I’ve put this feedback to 9050, as well, but perhaps we can have options to choose the interpreters of our choice because of their skill, their receptive skills, their English skills, they really match. I don’t want to, I’m not saying that, you know, I have a favorite interpreter, but why can I not have an option as opposed to, you know, being forced with the operator that I am choosed, or given because, you know, some situations, I don't mind going ahead, but if it’s my ex interpreting for me, you know, perhaps I'll be, like, you know, very cold and not really express my emotions appropriately, but if I had a couple of options to choose who I wish to interpret, especially for different scenarios and topics that I choose, would be lovely for the deaf community, and I want to emphasize that it’s very small. Should I keep going or is there other clarifying questions?
Eileen: I’m just looking to see if there’s indication of a desire for clarifying questions? No, so, yes, please keep going.
Darrell Villa: Okay, wonderful. In the U.S., they have the app, they have laptops, they have lighting. Everything is included when it comes to, you know, the interpreter scenario setup, but when I look here, you know, whether it’s CART, VRS, you know, I mean, there it’s all included, and some folks here, in terms of the VRS community, it’s not all provided or, you know, the ringing comes in and, you know, sometimes you have to get those, those equipment things set up, but my point is is that it’s very frustrating for the deaf community when it’s not properly set up, and I feel that you must, indeed, you should. It’s mandatory to provide the technical equipment, the laptops, the devices, the lighting, it is nonnegotiable, 100%, my feeling that this should be a standardized rule throughout the CTRC.
Eileen: And, again, we’re just waiting to see ….
Darrell Villa: Likewise, just waiting to see if you have anything to add, as well.
Eileen: Thank you. We’re taking this all in, and it’s very much appreciated, Darrell.
Darrell Villa: Wonderful. Yes. Just let me know when to go ahead and I will continue. Suppose I have a doctor's appointment and I use an interpreter in person. I’ll go, oh my gosh, look, they’re from VRS, they’re my favorite, you know. I haven't seen you in a long time on VRS. I mean, they won't say but they have said, you know, not the reason but they said yeah, I stepped down from that job because they said, you know, the work in person is a little bit more efficient in terms of pay than it is working on a VRS platform, and so I was just going, hmmm, interpreters on VRS, I mean, you’re interpreting, translating all day. I mean, that should be good pay, so I was surprised to know that some folks have left that job to do in-person or community work, so it’s bit concerning to me that I thought that should be investigated a little bit further and also brought to the higherups to be sure that interpreters are paid adequately for that job.
Eileen: Thank you. I'm seeing nodding heads from the commissioners who are not spot, but I I'm seeing their nodding heads. Carry on. Actually, I just noticed that Nirmala put her hand up. Did you wish to say something, Nirmala? Let me just put you on spotlight.
Nirmala: Yes. So, Darrell, I was interested in hearing a little more about the interpreters. I know sometimes I’ve read some stuff about burnout and so on. Have you found that generally they're very attentive, polite, you know, or do you find that they, they seem a little bit overworked, or what’s your experience been?
Darrell Villa: I notice that quite often that folks are signing and signing. I go, like, what are you saying, what are you saying, and they’re like, no, no, no, let me fix it. You can see the fatigue setting in depending on, you know, they’re working, you know, all day or whatnot. I can read people really good, hearing or deaf, and I can see that the, you know, the interpreters online are becoming worn out. I know that it’s later on in my deliberation here, but what really makes me angry, and I have complained to 9050, as well, that, you know, I'm talking and yet their, like, you know, eye contact is offscreen, and I was like, you know, why are they looking, like, they should be like, and I’ve interrupted and said, what are you doing, why are you multitasking, and they’re like, it’s okay to do that, but it’s very interruptive. It should be smooth eye contact, not like all over the screen as I'm displaying here with you folks, so I have to say that, that, you know, they should be removed from the VRS interpreting platform because eye contact should be exactly on me, to me, not otherwhere, elsewhere on the screen or around their desk. It’s very concerning. It frustrates me highly, and I can't stress the importance of their contact, and, you know, their actual eye contact, and, you know what, many times when I'm interpreting, I say, or prior to, I actually, being, beginning the interpretation process, I let them know this is what I like. Eye contact. Don't do multitasking, you know, don't go daydreaming, and then, and, you know, if it’s on hold, if the call becomes placed on hold, I can understand that, but my suggestion would be, you know, it’s, maybe it's not a long amount of time. It could be a 2 or 3 hour hold. So, you know, you need to get, be aware this this is indeed happening on the platform and that it’s not appropriate in the deaf culture to lose that eye contact with the deaf individual when working.
Eileen: Thank you, and I think it’s a lovely segue into the customer service aspects of VRS. I think we’re starting to transition into that area. We are very interested in hearing about, you know, both the positive and the negative parts of your experience with VRS as well as your suggestions for improvement for the customer service.
Darrell Villa: Wonderful. I've almost actually finished with my deliberation here with my notes, so, again, I’ll compare to VRS. You know, they have that ease of process, and, you know, again, I stress it’s the platform technology and the options and features within. You know, we don't, we don’t want to necessarily be the same but we want to be more flexible like Sorenson. I mean, they were set up many, many years ago, as well. They’ve had bugs and fixed them and smooth as butter now, but it seems like, you know, it, there’s problems continuously with new technology, and I just, a question to you, how is that fair with these continuing bugs when, you know, Sorenson is just so smooth, so, again, I’ve seen it, I’ve used it, and it’s just a perfect match for the deaf community and that’s what I see as a future dream in the perfect world for us here in Canada to have a platform similar to Sorenson.
Eileen: And again I'm seeing nodding heads from the commissioners who aren’t spotlit at the moment. I’m just looking to see if there is any other comments on their behalf. If not, any other feedback on customer service? We have Joanne. I’m going to spotlight you, Joanne, and if you could unmute yourself, Joanne.
Joanne: Okay. I wanted to ask you a little bit more about your experience with the Sorenson service in the United States. Have you had the opportunity to have a lot of experience with it? Have you traveled there extensively and used it extensively? Have you used it in a work situation or in a sort of tourist/travel situation?
Eileen: I just want to make sure Darrell switched. Okay, good.
Darrell Villa: May I go ahead? I’ll give you an example. I flew to Palm Springs, California, to visit a friend for three weeks, and it happened my phone wasn't working properly, so I asked my friend, do you mind if I use your VRS and I can make this phone, so he had a specific room set up for his VRS equipment. I made the phone call. My jaw just dropped a million miles down below. It was quick. It was fast. I had all these options, and I was dumbfounded. I had the operator ask me, are you ready to make a call? It was none of the other stuff I had to deal with. It was like lickety-split, lickety-split, lickety-split. Seamless. Seamless. A lot of functionality. I can't even remember all of the functionality. That was five years ago, and you. And you could, you know, the lights would flick on and off to get your attention. It was like the cat's meow, and it was like thousands of times way better than our current platform in Canada. My expectation, my wish, my dream is for us to get Sorenson equipment here and a Sorenson service in Canada. Perhaps it might be that it would be worth your while to pay a visit to Sorenson Communications in the United States, have a tour, have them tell you what they do and how they go about providing service and customer service to the deaf community. There is no, nothing that’s negative about this. You’d learn a lot. I mean, it’s, words, I can't put into words what the features and the functionality and the setup. It is just out of this world, and the deaf community are well served in the United States. You would do well to learn from them.
Joanne: I have -- thank you -- I have a question, and I'm sure staff will let me know if it is out of scope. However, when you talk about speed and so forth, I wonder if your, I wonder about your experience with simply the speed of internet service in Canada and how that impacts on the VRS service.
Darrell Villa: I use 75 megabytes per second, which isn't too bad. I asked customer service what their suggestion was for a minimum. They said a minimum of 75 was necessary, and, you know, I can function on VRS and back and forth. The turn taking is not a problem. The problem is that when you dial a number and you make a connection to that number, that’s where the problem can arise where it crashes or it drops and you have to call back in two or three times to finally get a connection to an operator. I don't think it has anything to did with the speed, per se. It’s, the 75 megabytes per second is adequate. It’s the platform functionality. The connection to the platform is the issue whereas in the United States with Sorenson, you have immediate service. It’s like at the flick of your, click of your mouse. It’s, it’s just amazing. There’s no issues there.
Joanne: Okay. Thank you for that clarification. It eliminates one issue that I had concerns about. How have you found the response when you raise some of these issues with customer service?
Darrell Villa: Well, I understand that 9050 is the front line. You know, they take all the shots. They take all the guns that are barreling at them and they make the notes and pass them to whoever it is, but whether something is done about it or not, I don't know. You know, they’ll say, well, we have a limit, you know. We only have so much room, you know, and they sort of shift the blame on to the CRTC, so whereas the deaf community, we of course, we're wanting a better service, we want a better functionality, we’re looking for that, you know, pantheon of service, you know, and here we’re being stuck with having to deal with old-fashioned 80s technology that’s outdated. You know, you’re best to go to Sorenson. I tell you, your problems would be totally eliminated, and you will have a deaf community thanking you, jumping up and down for joy, thanking the CRTC for an excellent provision of service. Lastly, you know, if you have, like, say, in five years, why is that? Like, there should be a prior to and during and at the end, not at the end, but prior to and during, you know, what do you think, folks? What do you think of the service? Like, what do you call it? Like a beta, like a beta platform testing, and, you know, before you roll out something you provide a beta. I’ve been in touch with someone in the U.S. that when they connected, they connected to a different service and they had a test for two or three weeks and they let go of it. I wasn't surprised because they had to, you know, we have to deal with a program, but what should be done every year is an ongoing platform testing. I don't think if anything is done, you’re going to see protests, you’re going to see a lot of anger from the deaf community. You know, it should be an ongoing monitoring. Like, for example, today where, you know, you’re having a consultation, you’re soliciting feedback. Are things getting better? Well, I’ve never heard that Sorenson service is a hundred percent perfect but they do quality assurance monitoring and they do roll out to the community and they do illicit the opinions of the community, and here in Canada, it’s been what, five years, and we haven’t had an opportunity to illicit our opinions and our thoughts and our feedback, you know, and, you know, just being told we can't do anything because you’ve hit, you hit your limit of 3000 calls. So be it, and you’re on your own. That's not fair.
Joanne: Thank you.
Eileen: Thank you, Joanne. I see that Alicia has her hand up, as well, so I’m going to transfer the spotlight over, and I also just want you to be aware of timing. So, before we go to you, Alicia, Darrell, have you had any experience using 911, because that is an area of feedback we wish to collect?
Darrell Villa: I’ve used it once. Once in a while I’ve used 911. It’s fast. It’s fast, but why is the 911 prioritized? It should, it shouldn't matter whether a call is a 911 call or not. It should be an immediate connection. Not a, you know, taking 10 million years to connect to the 911. You’re waiting for it to connect. It should be immediate. Like, just imagine like nowadays as you are ware of with, you know, you’re on hold with the CRA for two hours and you’re waiting for the call to connect and you finally get someone on the phone and then you're passed on to someone else. I mean, it’s no different for non-hearing or non-deaf people, you know, and to be only connected on for an hour and then your time’s up and then you gotta wait for your next call to get back in and you were on call for an hour and here I'm on call for two hours. That's very frustrating.
Eileen: Okay, and I absolutely would love to hear any additional feedback. I just wanted to make sure from a time management that we got both feedback on 911 and Alicia has the opportunity to ask questions. So, let’s loop back on 911 in a minute. Alicia?
Alicia: Thank you, Eileen. Darrell, I just want, you have given us many of your suggestions for improvements to the platform, and I just want to make sure that if you have any improvement suggestions for the actual customer service function that we can hear about them, so if you have any suggestions, we’d love to listen.
Darrell Villa: Well, as I mentioned earlier, I pretty much illicited everything that I was going to say. I will try to answer what, I’ve done the best I’ll do. I’ve had to search Google for a 416-6781 number in particular and had to make that phone call instead of being able to just dial outright to 911. When the operator answers, they should identify a voice, whether it’s male or female. I want to know who the hearing caller is, if it’s a male or female. It’s a good idea for them to share that information. That would help a lot. As well, when the screens pop up and I want to send an extension number or a case number or a file number or an airline confirmation number and the operator doesn't get it and I gotta try and type it in again and I do this like two or three times before the operator or the VI operator finally get the information. Call holds when the operator tells us they’re either on hold or on break and now they have to transfer out to another interpreter the call drops and sometimes you’ve been on hold and now you're on hold for another hour to hour and a half. That's very frustrating and disconcerting, as well.
We feel that it’s a lot of money being spent when, you know, we’re not using WiFi. We’re using a lot of data, and now I've got to hook up to a 50 gigabyte service and that’s unfair to us because we have to use more data and that’s not fair being that we’re a marginalized disabled group. There should be some kind of affordable connectivity involved. When we want to make some complaint, we aren't familiar with the CRTC process. They’re not deaf friendly. The 9050 doesn't cut it. There should be someone who is in the CRTC as a deaf consultant who is deaf who can take on the feedback, the consultations, and that would open the door for us as a deaf community to be able to have a rapport with the CRTC knowing that someone who is in CRTC has an understanding of our background, our community, our culture, and has an understanding of our in-depth embedded culture. You know, not someone who is black, for example, and has no understanding of what the deaf community is all about. So, having some deaf-friendly people in the CRTC would go a long way to establishing rapport to the deaf community. Now, you know, camera to camera and you're on hold, I can't leave the camera, I can’t go onto the internet because the rules are, for example, if I'm on an answer the phone call, I get that orange blinking light and then, you know, I can't answer it because I'm sitting down and sometimes I'm looking on the internet and I get the interpreter, he’s waving, they’re waving their hands at me, trying to get my attention. You know, it’s kind of neat, you know, you leave your phone down as a hearing person and you can go about and do your business and then when you hear the phone ring or the voice come on the phone you can come right back down. That's not the same experience that we have. The technology has to be in place like a set of flashing lights to tell us that someone’s answered the phone. Then it grabs our attention and we know that we can answer the phone. I’ve mentioned this many times in 9050 but it’s in one ear and out the other.
Alicia: Thank you for your comments.
Darrell villa: Lastly, in November of 2022, there was that big system wide crash. We couldn't call for a few hours, we couldn’t make 911 calls. That was the last straw for us. That really upset the deaf community, and so one word that I would strongly recommend is that it’s Sorenson. We’ve earned it. We deserve it. We've been through enough. We've had to deal with this for many, many years. Get Sorenson. That's all I have to say, and if you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer any of them.
Alicia: Thank you very much for your comments, Darrell. We very much appreciate it.
Eileen: Thank you very much, Darrell. This has been very valuable. Appreciate your contributions and now I will just wrap up with what the next steps are.
So, the CRTC will be adding the video from today to the CRTC's YouTube channel after captioning is completed, so there’s a little bit of work that has to get done for captioning and then that will be posted on YouTube. Following that, a new phase will be introduced into the VRS review so that interveners can comment on the videos. So, this will allow the opportunity to comment on the content of the videos, so including any clarifications to the interpretation of what the participant has communicated.
Darrell Villa: Yes, please send me that link. I would appreciate it so I can look at it. It will give me the opportunity to review my comments, too. I’d appreciate that. Thank you.
Eileen: Yes. As mentioned, it will take a while for post production to get the video finished and then we’ll send you that link.
Darrell Villa: Very much appreciated. Once your proceedings are all completed, I’d also like to know what your conclusions will be and maybe we could have another forum, say in six months from now, to review those consultations, the decisions that have been made and any implementations that have been suggested. You know, whether or not we get Sorenson or you spend 50 million on another platform, that is something that we use and live with every day, and to have that ability to be able to use the VRS system and a Sorenson VRS system would be, go a long way for the deaf community today for their day-to-day living and needs of their use of the VRS system.
Eileen: Thank you, Darrell. That concludes this session. We really appreciate your involvement.
Darrell Villa: You're welcome.
Eileen: Thank you very much.
Darrell Villa: Thanks for listening.
Eileen: And I believe we will be stopping the recording now.
Session 2: Members of the Deaf and Hard of Hearing Coalition
Eileen: We are recording now. Before we begin this session, I do acknowledge that I'm joining this call from the traditional ancestral unceded territories of the Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh nations. I recognize that others have joined virtually from different locations and therefore are on different traditional indigenous territories, and I invite you to take a moment to reflect in gratitude and pay tribute to the elders wherever you are.
Thank you so much for joining today. My name is Eileen. My pronouns are she/her/elle. I'm a woman with long brown hair, I’m wearing a red-colored shirt, and I will be your facilitator for this session. We have three commissioners on the call with us, and I will invite each of them to introduce themselves. We will start with Joanne.
Joanne: Hello. My name is Joanne, and I am a Caucasian woman with short blondish hair, red glasses, I'm wearing silver earrings and a dark shirt with a scarf with lions on it and a red wrap, and I come to you from a small city called Warman, which is north of Saskatoon.
Eileen: Thank you, Joanne. We’ll move on to Alicia.
Alicia: Hello. My name is Alicia. I am a woman with long dark hair of Hispanic origin wearing a light gray jacket, and I am speaking to you from Montreal in Quebec, and I am very anxious about what you have to say about your experience with the VRS service. Thank you.
Eileen: Thank you, Alicia. Next we have Nirmala.
Nirmala: Hello. My name is Nirmala. Nirmala. Thank you so much for being here. I am a woman of South Asian descent. I have brown hair. I'm wearing a pink top today. I am a commissioner for Alberta Northwest Territories, and I'm speaking to you today from Calgary in Alberta. I just want to say thank so you much for taking part in these discussions.
Eileen: Wonderful. Thank you, Nirmala. I now invite each of you to introduce yourselves. We will start with Elliott.
Elliott Richman: Hello there. My name is Elliott Richman. I am here representing, I’m 1 of 3 reps from Deaf Association and Hard of Hearing Association of Nova Scotia. I'm wearing a blue shirt, black cap with glasses, and I'm sitting on a chair, and I'm very excited, just turning here to get something, and just making sure I have no background visual distractions there, so I was just double checking that, and I'm very happy to participate in today's session and this virtual discussion, and I'm very much looking forward to it.
Eileen: Thank you, Elliott. Myles?
Myles Murphy: Hello, there. My name is Myles Murphy. I'm from St. John's, Newfoundland. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to join this discussion today, and I'm very excited. I have a blue shirt on with a pullover cardigan that is black with black glasses, gray short hair. I'm old, and I'm happy to be in the meeting.
Eileen: We're happy to have you here.
I have three main questions that we’re going to be covering. First, your experience using VRS. Second, your experience with VRS customer service. Third, your experience using VRS to contact 911. If we have time after that, we can hear other feedback on anything else you’d like to discuss around VRS user experience. Those are the areas we will be covering.
So, the first area is your experience using VRS. We are interested in the aspects or features of the service that have worked well for you, any challenge that you might have with VRS, as well as any suggestions for improvement. So, we open the floor. Elliott, Myles, first of all, what has worked well for with you VRS? Elliott, would you like to go first?
Elliott Richman: I’m sorry. Can you see me okay?
Eileen: Yes.
Elliott Richman: Okay, good. Sorry. I thought I had some technical issues there. First of all, I would like to elaborate that there are many people who have had the experience. I'm not just speaking for myself but I’m speaking for as a collection or as a collective perspective on the use, user experience of the Canadian VRS. So, I speak not for myself but for the collective, and, just so you know, we have a bit of a technical glitch here with Elliott. His screen is frozen. Just wait.
Eileen: I do see that Elliott is having a technical challenge. He's back.
Elliott Richman: Yes. I'm going to move downstairs where I have a better connectivity. Just bear with me for a moment, please.
Eileen: Okay. While Elliott is moving -- oh -- my thought is --
Interpreter: He’s moving closer to his WiFi router. That’s what he’s doing, I imagine.
Eileen: While Elliott is moving, Myles, if you have any thoughts that you would like to share or we could just wait for Elliott to move.
Myles Murphy: Yeah, we can wait for Elliott. Elliott and I have kind of collaborated our list of items. I think it might be best for Elliott to start before I say anything in followup. Sorry about that.
Eileen: Perfect. No, this is great. I love the collaboration and the cooperation.
Elliott Richman: Okay, so, with your permission, I’d like to start over again. So, we have been very grateful for the VRS service. It’s because the deaf community can use the phone as a piece of technology to communicate in our own language quickly or more efficiently than using the old TTY/TDD system that was provided through the MRS system. This is much better compared to the old TTY/TDD approach. So, we’re grateful for that, but we still have barriers that we experience. We still have limitations on the use, based on the user experience. We believe that the VRS improvements can be made and can be done, especially when it applies to the user experience. We will demonstrate that the deaf person or the deaf community are not able to make and receive phone calls with the system and with system ease and with freedom, comfort, and to be on par with their hearing peers. In other words, VRS, as it is now, does not provide us the functionality equivalent or the functional equivalency as to what our hearing peers enjoy.
We have a list, and we had to prioritize from that list because we have only 45 minutes to present to you, but perhaps for the next phase of consultation we can submit a report listing all of our concerns and observations. Would that be acceptable? With this in mind, today we’d like to talk about our major issues that confront us and the choices that we are limited with.
When it comes to using a phone, a phone provider, nondeaf individuals can pick whatever they wish. Any size, any provider, whereas the deaf community we are limited to one provider. In the United States, there are five providers, five options. Three European union countries provide services, each of those three European union countries provide more than one choice as a use of provider for VRS. Today, we talk about the functionality equivalency. The 24/7 availability is a concern.
The VRS, as it sits, does not provide a real 24/7 service. That is nonexistant at this time. For example, so far, during the months of October and November, we were impacted by three system outages, actually that were longer than 30 minutes each. VRS itself, the system, often crashes for, and is down for maintenance whereas hearing people, nondeaf people, rely on a very, very reliable 24/7 provider system service with the exception, of course, for the crash that Rogers experienced some time ago in July of 2022, which was an anomaly.
The next topic I’d like to address is the call duration. The Canadian, the CAV services limits us to 1.5 hours per phone call whereas hearing people can stay on the phone for as long as they want. Forever, if you wish. Compared to the United States, there is no limitation placed on the five provider services. Deaf people can use the VRS for as long as they wish, as long as they need to.
I just asked the interpreter if I was going too fast, and it’s going fine.
The speed of the answering of the phone calls is another issue. Now, the standard is 80% of all calls to the VRS must be answered and responded to within 2 minutes, translated into layman's terms, which results in long wait times compared to the nondeaf person using a, calling in for dial tone. The nondeaf person can pick up the phone, connect to the system immediately whereas a deaf person connecting to the VRS has to wait longer, and the impact to that is that someone ends up having to wait in queue, and they might be number 10 in the queue and they have to wait their turn until their call is answered.
We have suggested solutions, adding two hours instead of the current 1.5 hour duration that’s currently in place. That would be a better standard to work with and from. The standard must be measured on an ongoing and hourly basis, not on a monthly basis as it is now.
Now, I would like to talk about the video remote interpreting. That's considered in an acronym VRI, video remote interpreting. With respect to this, we’d like to talk about three issues. Someone calls someone in the system in a room.
In Canada, that’s not allowed. It’s not permissible under the current system whereas hearing people can be in the same room together and talk with no issues. The point is is that you have these phones and their communication and we’re creating a divide. It still works, and it should be applicable to the deaf community, as well, and the ability to use the VRS regardless of where they are. The point being is that the user uses the system. That is the issue.
Now, when we come to New Zealand, the country of New Zealand allows VRI services, and they don't make any issues or demarcation between VRS and the VRI provision of service. Both are acceptable. Both are permissible.
Now, we’d also like to talk about another issue, and the point of this is the point-to-point calls that are made. Hearing people are able to make point-to-point calls with ease to be able to call anybody at any time, anywhere with as many parties as they wish to. The deaf community, however, cannot. Each point-to-point call that is made is limited to two parties on VRS or users, and they both have to be deaf. The limitation is to the domestic area and domestic calls. International calls point-to-point are not permissible. Video to video point-to-point calls between a deaf caller and a hearing caller using ASL or an ASL user, for example, perhaps it might be a member of the family or a family friend, these calls cannot be placed. Those kind of calls should be allowed to be made. Calling family and friends, really. You know, anyone can call anyone in the hearing world, that is, but in the deaf world we cannot. Supposing we have this situation where we have a deaf initiator and a deaf receiver, a hearing receiver, and they make a point-to-point call, and they don’t need to use the services of a sign language interpreter or the use of a video remote interpreter service. The call would be cheaper for the VRS to operate if they could make peer to peer calls and be able to use sign language without the use of a sign language interpreter. That is where my part of the presentation is made, and I would now like to defer to my collaborator and friend, Mr. Myles Murphy. Myles, over to you.
Myles Murphy: May I go now?
Eileen: Yes.
Myles Murphy: Thank you. It would be appreciated if you could remember that as a collective, we have collected information from the deaf community through our town hall meetings. We gathered their concerns. We wanted the deaf community to express their concerns about the VRS and the issues and the issues myself that I have experienced, and I would now like to share them with you. When it comes to phone numbers in general with the use of technology in the VRS system, let's say an interpreter gets behind me and informs me that they’re - - oh, I will, yeah, okay, thanks. Just some collaboration between Myles and the interpreter. So, the user must have two phone numbers. One phone number for the VRS service, for CAV, and they must have another phone for their use for mobile numbers. Their own cell phone. When a deaf user makes a call, they are limited to two. One, each individual can only have two. To have more than one or two or three or four is not permissible. A business or an organization, for example, the Newfoundland Labrador Association of Deaf, is not able to have a VRS phone number. We are not permitted to as an organization, and that is limiting. The deaf community, when it comes to visitors coming over, cannot use the CAV phone number, but for a hearing person, and coming over to visit their friends, they’re able to use their phone and use the phone call.
We’re just going to give time for the interpreters to switch English to ASL. Please wait
Eileen: Perfect. Heather is here. One second while I pin her. I can see. Perfect. I can see it perfect.
Myles Murphy: Right now I’d like to discuss my second point in terms of the technological platform. The system once in a while has a very low quality in terms of its video capability. There’s many times it gets disconnected or you're in mid conversation and you lose the connection. Every now and then there is a struggle to connect to VRLS itself. For example, there may be no answer or there’s a wrong number, but we don’t know that. It’s just trying to connect. You see it processing. With regards to effective communication, just, you need to observe those skillsets of the interpreters to make sure that they have the appropriate background information in terms of experience to interpret those different types of phone calls. I’ll give you an example. Say, insurance companies, businesses, healthcare. Some interpreters don't match those scenarios and make common errors when it comes to interpreting those calls, and 911 support, as well. 911 support, as well. I know there's, you know, N11, or, sorry, 211, there’s 311, there’s 411, 511, and all of the others such as 911, as I was saying. Hearing individuals can call 911 no problem. However, deaf cannot call those other 211 numbers. That’s not equality service and equal access.
With regards to customer service and the hours, the 24/7 is not available. Saturdays and Sundays those offices are closed. However, Rogers tell us, you know, they’re open, as well, 24 hours, 7 days a week, so I’m unsure why customer service doesn't follow suit.
With regards to meetings and work scenarios, for a closed setting, you know, if you're having a conversation once in a while you’ll have to like hold that to go to another setting and interpret there, so there’s an incapability of the services. I notice the number of complaints have increased amongst the community. If I'm calling to complain, you know, those, those, those calls should be answered and addressed immediately.
CCTS or, you know, any other services you can call but you seem to get blocked. When I'm talking about calling to the U.S., the American’s deaf community they have that capability unlike Canadian’s deaf community.
I just wanted to talk about the 9050’s problem for the deaf community, as well. It seems like those hours of operations on weekends, as I had mentioned earlier, you know, for feedback, it’s not available, and, as well, the feedback of the staff they’re always interchanging, and it seems quite frustrating and many problems appear when trying to relay that information to customer service.
I do believe that’s everything for me right now. I don’t know if Elliott, he had the main script for our meeting today. It was quite lengthy, but I’ll pass it back to Elliott right now, and thank you, Elliott, for your portion, as well as the folks on the call today listening to our feedback. Back to Elliott here speaking.
Elliott Richman: We just need to balance naturally our – oh, go ahead, Elliott -- just making sure that we have a great balance between the deaf community and we have a good app and VRS system. We need to bridge the gaps to make sure that these complaints that we addressed today are indeed addressed, listened, and then lessened. What I have missed, what I have mentioned in my presentation today we would love to see quick resolutions as well as to see it from our perspective. The functionality of the system, we need to know that it can be done and that, you know, that we have equal access and we can get better service provided like in-person services so that the experience of connecting and having anyone available, anywhere at any time through a phone system that is dependable and reliable.
How many, how much time do we have left, folks?
Eileen: Well, I want to open the floor to the commissioners to give them the opportunity to ask any clarifying questions. We still do have another, just over 20 minutes in this call, but commissioners, do you have any clarifying questions? Joanne does, but first, Elliott, do you have to clarify something?
Elliott Richman: Oh, no, well, Myles was just saying with related to, not think, Myles is saying, I don’t think, just say you are, with the quality of the interpretation, Myles, did you say something about that? What were you referring to, Elliott? Let me just add a little bit of it. Yeah, I did, I already mentioned the quality of interpreting, Myles is saying. Okay, Elliott is saying, if you said that Myles, then that's fine by me.
Eileen: Excellent. I know Joanne had expressed wanting to ask a further question. So go ahead, Joanne.
Joanne: This has to do with the discussion about getting through to CCTS to make complaints. Can you just elaborate? You said that it was difficult to provide feedback to VRS customer service, and I just wanted a little more clarification when you said that you were blocked.
Elliott Richman: Do you want me to answer Elliott or Myles? Go ahead Elliott. Elliott speaking here. First of all, I will clarify that if a hearing customer has a problem with anything, they can call the telephone service right away and try and negotiate with that individual that they’re speaking with. That complaint then is sent to CCTS, and so, and that info is passed on. However, if they have, they don't have main control of the information that they have about CAV, so CCTS will forward the complaint to CAV and then it will go back to CAV, I should say, so it’s forwarded on. However, CRTC should do the same.
If there is a complaint about CRTC, about CAV, then what do they do? They should forward that back to the initial, the source of the complaint, so CAV. So, the complaint then process is a little smoother so that the folks that are dealing with the complaint actually get the complaint themselves so they can resolve it. Does that answer your question and clarify that?
Joanne:I believe it does. I'm going to hold any other questions that I have until after we have covered the other two questions that are part of this consultation because I want to make sure that we get those covered before we have more discussion because I have several questions more, but I want to make sure that we get those in.
Eileen: Thank you. Appreciate that, Joanne. Thank you very much. Indeed, we do want to focus, as well, on specifically your experience with VRS customer service and highlighting the positive and negative aspects of the experience with VRS customer service and any suggestions for improvements on that.
Elliott Richman: Just allow deaf people to not be interrupted during their complaint whether it’s with CRTC or CCTS. Just permit them to have their complaint and transfer, forward it to the correct people. That is one of my biggest suggestions to date. Myles, did you have anything there you wanted to add?
Myles Murphy: Deaf want to complain directly to CRTC or CCTS. Is that correct, Elliott? Yes. They shouldn't be referred to CAV. That's what we’re trying to say. You know, CAV should be the manager or, you know, screen out those complaints, just, and then the problems continue to occur. It needs to be independent. If it’s an issue with CRTC, receive, they could receive the complaints, note the unsatisfactory points but then give it to the folks that actually the complaint is about. I just want to clarify that, so they’re the documenter, so to speak, CAV.
Elliott Richman: Elliott here. We were talking about Rogers and Telus. You know, they’re open 24/7 for tech support or customer service, but CAV is not. So, you know, you know, it’s closed during a holiday for example or the staff meeting, you know? It needs to change to be 24/7, seven days a week, without question. Week in, week out. Hopefully that answers your question, as well.
Eileen: Thank you. Any clarification from the commissioners? The other area that we did want to get feedback on is contacting 911. If you or people that you have collected feedback from used VRS to contact 911, can you tell us about the experience and how you might improve that experience?
Darrell Villa: We’re just switching interpreters. One moment, please.
Elliott Richman: So, Elliott here. May I answer that one, Eileen?
Eileen: Please.
Elliott Richman: So, first of all, I’d like to draw or focus with due respect to the 911 calls. It should be clarified, and to be clear, how to get 911 assistance when it's needed. To illustrate, the hearing system or the normal functional system follows standards, the telcos, that is, adhere to standards, for 90% of 911 phone calls, that they have to be answered within 20 seconds, and that is coming from the National Emergency Number Association, NENA. That's a standard that it adheres to. Compared to the VRS, a reply to a 911 call at the next available interpreter or video interpreter available can be 20 seconds, it could be 3 minutes, it could be 9 minutes. There is no standard, and so the caller has to wait for the next available video interpreter to take the call. I know it becomes a priority and those calls are prioritized on the queue. Still, it’s not adhering to NENA standards where 90% of all 911 calls should be answered within 20 seconds. It’s not meeting that standard. One more comment that I’d like to make. Before the pandemic started, we’re talking pre-pandemic times, if a 911 instance occurred, there would be two interpreters that would be assigned to the call. During the pandemic, it was reduced to one interpreter. It was because the interpreters were now working remote and couldn't physically be together in the same space to process the phone call at a CAV center, so now I have no idea during the pandemic what those statistics are if they’ve gotten worse. Myles, your comment?
Myles Murphy: Yes, Myles here. I’d like to say some comments with respect to the 911 service, if I may. It is a very challenging situation for us as the deaf community as users to use the 911 service. For example, if an emergency arises, and I have to call the VRS service to make a 911 call, and I end up waiting online, I might be number 9 on the queue and I have to wait my turn for that call to eventually reach me in queue, time goes by, and it might be too late. There might be a fire. The fire is escalating. Time is of the essence. What gives here? Now we've got this fire destroying my property and now my phone call answers and it's too late. That presents an issue when it’s an emergency. Where I feel the improvements need to be made is that the VRS system should have its own standalone emergency response system that solely looks after 911 calls. Emergency calls only. You have a VRS division where the general population can make their respective phone calls, but 911 service is such an essential life-saving service, lives are at stake and it should be a dedicated service. The 9050 is for technical support, you know, routine items, general VRS call processing, but a separate part and parcel dedicated 911 service for emergency phone calls would be important, and that is something we would like to share with you.
Eileen: Thank you.
Elliott Richman: And, Elliott here. I agree with this, that the use of the NENA standards for 911 call processing should be applied to VRS 911 calls right across the board. 90% of calls to be responded to within 20 seconds. Flat across the board. Whether it’s hearing or deaf. Bottom line.
Eileen: Alicia had a question, but, Myles, did you have something else?
Myles Murphy: No, I will defer. I'll wait. Thank you. Go ahead.
Alicia: Thank you, Eileen. Can I ask a question of clarification regarding your use of the 911 service? I understand that 911 calls are prioritized, but then I heard you say that your experience is that those calls are still placed in a queue and that the wait time to have a 911 call answered is or could potentially be very long. Is that correct?
Darrell Villa: Yes, that's true.
Alicia: Thank you.
Eileen: Thanks, Alicia. Joanne, let me spotlight you and take Alicia off. Joanne, you have a question?
Joanne: Okay. You've talked about creating almost a separate system for 911 calls so that they get that immediate proper attention. How do you think we should handle the 988 calls? 988 is the number that will, once it's in force, it will be, you know, for those people who are having difficulties with mental health issues, you know, suicide watch, that sort of thing.
So, should that also be in that queue or another queue or how, you know, those are often very urgent calls, as well, or can be very urgent. What’s your suggestion for how we should handle it?
Elliott Richman: Elliott here. If I may, I’d like to respond to that question, Eileen.
Eileen: Please.
Elliott Richman: Okay, I’m just asking Elliott to stand back from the screen. May I respond to that? Yes. Okay. Of course. First of all, to respond to that question, the CAV has already provided access to 988 service, just to clarify. However, again, as I say, there has to be, or as I have said before, there should be a separate line that where the operator is specific for 988 calls as they would be for 911 service calls. Now, that being said, I did say to keep those separate because 911 calls typically are short and sweet to the point. For example, there could be an emergency at 123 Main Street and that's all they need to know and can process the call and send first responders. However, a 988 call might be of longer duration in relation because it involves a discussion, a conversation, so, in my recommendation, if you were to roll out a 988 service, I would dedicate it. Dealing with trauma, mental health issues, relating to a different kind of stress, different ways of managing it, as opposed to the 911 service which typically captures a collocation, information, that information is passed on, whereas in a 988 call, that information may not be inherent to the phone call, and so the users, not being able to be used without the user’s permission, whereas a 911 call has to provide that collocation information. So, oh, I’ll leave it there. Oh, one more thing that comes to mind. Again, 90% of all 911 or 988 phone calls coming in need to come in and be responded to within 20 seconds whether they are deaf calls or hearing related calls, those standards should be flat and standard across the board according to NENA standards.
Eileen: Thank you. Thank you, Joanne. Do any of the other commissioners have any clarifying questions? They do not. Are there any other areas pertaining to your experiences with VRS that you wish to cover today, Myles and Elliott? We have another couple minutes left.
Elliott Richman: Myles? Be my guest. No.
Myles Murphy: Elliott, you go ahead.
Elliott Richman: Alright. I’ll have a comment. How many minutes do we have again, please, Eileen?
Eileen: We’ve got a couple minutes. I think we started a little ahead of schedule. I’d like to have us wrapped up before the hour. There are 6 minutes to the hour, so something less than 6 minutes.
Elliott Richman: Oh, no problem at all. Then, I’d like to add to our collective list. I’d like to talk about the VRS features in the platform. In the United States, in the American system, they have a better and newer features that are available than CAV has. In the United States and Canada there are differences, and I’ll give you some examples. Some of the VRS providers in the United States have a system where one hearing, deaf person and interpreter can see each other all on the same screen. They can see and hear each other all on the same monitor. You have your three parties all on the same venue looking and hearing at each other. That’s not possible in Canada at the moment. Some VRS providers in the United States have a notification ability for incoming calls, and the phone actually vibrates when an incoming call is provided. That’s not provided in Canada. That feature is not available in Canada. There is one VRS provider in the United States that can download an app onto your device or use a web-based device or a web-based app without having to download the app, and in CAV can you only download. There is an American provider, VRS, in the United States that has a call forwarding feature, which allows that if an incoming call comes in and rings on my particular device, I have the ability to forward it to my laptop and that call can then be forwarded to my laptop and I can use my laptop to take that phone call. That is not provided in Canada. The sage removal -- pardon me, interpreter error – the Sage Report indicated that the United States has more advanced user friendly features in VRS, that Canada must imitate or abide by or develop in harmony with it. At the moment, as I can make, I’d like to make one last comment about this, about the choices, at this time, everyone around the world or around the world has to have more competition. There needs to be more competition between phone companies. The deaf don't have that ability. We need to have more choices to pick from. We need competitors in the VRS industry for providers in Canada so that if we aren't happy with a particular VRS provider, we have the ability and freedom to select another provider much as the same where people can select from Telus, Rogers, or Bell. So, we know that we are a small country, we are a small town population compared to the United States, but there is absolutely no reason to limit us to one sole provider. We need to have at least two to pick from. Two providers, and that was on a recommendation that was made back in 2013. So, there you go. It’s about time that we keep up with the times and adopt this concept of competition and multiple VRS providers in Canada. I hope that I haven't exhausted my time.
Eileen: Thank you, Elliott. So, we really appreciate all of the feedback that Elliott and Myles that you’ve given us. That is time for today, and thank you, commissioners, for being engaged in the process and all your additional probing questions. So, what’s going to happen now is the CRTC will be doing edits to make sure that these videos all come together with the languages and the captioning. We will be adding these videos to CRTC's YouTube channel after the captioning is completed, and then following that, there will be a new phase that will be introduced into the VRS view so that interveners can comment on the videos, allowing you the opportunity to comment on the content of the videos, so that would be clarifications to the interpretation of what you had communicated.
Elliott Richman: Thank you very much.
Eileen: Once these are up, we will let you know, and we will conclude this recording now. Thank you very much.
This video is the recording of the virtual discussion sessions that took place on January 24, 2023 between three CRTC Commissioners and:
Session 1: Darrell Villa - Consultation participant
Session 2: Members of the Deaf and Hard of Hearing Coalition
The purpose of the virtual discussion sessions was to ensure VRS users have a fulsome opportunity to communicate their experience with using the service with CRTC Commissioners. The discussions focused on the lived experiences of people who use VRS with the objective of understanding their needs, how the service is and is not meeting those needs, and how it can be improved.
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