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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS BEFORE
THE CANADIAN RADIO‑TELEVISION AND
TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DEVANT
LE CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION
ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES
VARIOUS BROADCASTING APPLICATIONS /
PLUSIEURS DEMANDES EN RADIODIFFUSION
HELD AT: TENUE À:
Conference Centre Centre de conférences
Outaouais Room Salle Outaouais
Portage IV Portage IV
140 Promenade du Portage 140, promenade du Portage
Gatineau, Quebec Gatineau (Québec)
March 28, 2007 Le 28 mars 2007
In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages
Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be
bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members
and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of
However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded
verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in
either of the official languages, depending on the language
spoken by the participant at the public hearing.
Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues
officielles, les procès‑verbaux pour le Conseil seront
bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des
membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience
publique ainsi que la table des matières.
Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu
textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée
et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues
officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le
participant à l'audience publique.
Canadian Radio‑television and
Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des
Transcript / Transcription
VARIOUS BROADCASTING APPLICATIONS /
PLUSIEURS DEMANDES EN RADIODIFFUSION
BEFORE / DEVANT:
Rita Cugini Chairperson / Présidente
Michel Arpin Commissioner / Conseiller
Richard French Commissioner / Conseiller
Barbara Cram Commissioner / Conseillère
Helen del Val Commissioner / Conseillère
ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS:
Jade Roy Secretary / Secrétaire
Valérie Dionne Legal Counsel /
Joe Aguiar Hearing Manager /
Gérant de l'audience
HELD AT: TENUE À:
Conference Centre Centre de conférences
Outaouais Room Salle Outaouais
Portage IV Portage IV
140 Promenade du Portage 140, promenade du Portage
Gatineau, Quebec Gatineau (Québec)
March 28, 2007 Le 28 mars 2007
TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE / PARA
REPLY BY / RÉPLIQUE PAR:
Kenneth R. Schaffer 458 / 2893
Diversity Television Inc. 468 / 2929
National Broadcast Reading Service (OBCI) 475 / 2957
Avis de recherche inc. and All Points 485 / 2998
Faith and Spirit Media Inc. 493 / 3026
Pelmorex Communications Inc. 499 / 3047
Canadian Broadcasting Corporation 508 / 3088
PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:
Joco Communications Inc. 520 / 3148
William Wrightshell (OBCI) 581 / 3545
Newcap Inc. 630 / 3900
Connelly Communications Inc. 717 / 4430
ERRATA / ADDENDA
March 27, 2007 (Volume 1)
Page 302, "80 pour cent" s/b "85 pour cent"
Gatineau Quebec / Gatineau (Québec)
‑‑‑ Upon commencing on Wednesday, March 28, 2007
at 0900 / L'audience débute le mercredi 28 mars
2007 à 0900
LISTNUM 1 \l 1 \s 28882888 THE CHAIRPERSON: Order please. Madame Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12889 THE SECRETARY: Thank you Madame Chair. For the record, Diversity Television has filed the revised nature of service, and the breakdown of original programming and acquired programming. These documents are going to be available in the Examination Room.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12890 And now we will proceed to Phase III in which applicants can apply to all interventions submitted on their application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12891 I would like to mention that Astral Broadcasting and YTV mentioned that they will not appear in this Phase.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12892 And now I would ask Kenneth Schaffer to make your presentation. You have ten minutes for this purpose. Thank you.
REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
LISTNUM 1 \l 12893 MR. SCHAFFER: Hello, bonjour. Thank you again, Madame Commissioner and the Commission for allowing us to appear and talk about these issues on the interventions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12894 I am pleased to be able to respond to the interventions, both written and presented at the hearings. My comments will speak to, I suppose ‑‑ two general areas raised ‑‑ well actually a little bit more than that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12895 The first area of comment concerns the appropriateness of 91H as a way to address the public priority and the overall financial viability of the basic cable tier. It comes as no surprise that the BDU's are arguing against any new service attaining the 91H MUST CARRY designation. They have been arguing this since the MUST CARRY was created. And no one would expect them to say anything else in their defense.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12896 As I mentioned in the presentation earlier, one of MMTN's biggest problems is that the BDU's have become the gatekeepers for the Canadian Broadcasting system. And have the de facto power to decide what services go forward and what do not. This creates a problem of enormous chaos, especially for aboriginal concerns, and of course, Metis specific television here in this country.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12897 While we have been arguing that the Metis Aboriginal Television Network addresses the core shortcoming in the current system, the BDU's have declined to consider carriage as they do not see the services being of value to their bottom line. And that really is what it is ‑‑ it's the bottom line agenda, more than anything.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12898 This raises the question of who sets the public policy here, the CRTC or the BDU's. In ‑‑ I think in a lot of people's opinions ‑‑ that when we look at what goes on in Canadian Broadcasting history, that the BDU's kind of take the approach that they are the Commission. And they don't want their hands tied, but they don't mind tying up the Commission's hands. In it's question, following my presentation on Tuesday, the panel indicated that they are wrestling with the question of how much is too much for basic cable, and what should be included in this package. This is a fair question, and one that the Commission will have to answer both here and in the over the air migration proceedings.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12899 However, this may also require the Commission to consider some previous decisions that have been provided. A MUST CARRY with fee subscriber category one status to services I would suggest, fall much lower on the list of public priorities than the Metis Mitchell Television Network. It is a little strange to have the Commission in that position, or in the position that your hands would be tied, and that the overall explanation from Shaw is to have regulatory ‑‑ satellite BDU regulatory ‑‑ I guess definitions ‑‑ that would impose problems for you to actually make decisions on the future of Canadian broadcasting.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12900 Shaw advocates deregulation. And that's fine. In a way, really, we look at this from the same point of view. When I went over the interventions, I was stuck with over and over again with the same thing ‑‑ that really it goes to show that what the BDU's are asking for is that nobody be a MUST CARRY. And if we look at this from historical past ‑‑ and I must bring up the fact of the job shops as part of this ‑‑ and the fact that we have applied now ‑‑ we have actually handed in a Category One license to you‑‑ but when I do this, I go back in history and I say ‑‑ now what happened with the job shops was it took one night for the Attorney General to decide that we were being beaten up by the newspaper, the major dailies across this country.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12901 What happens here in this instance is very similar to this Broadcasting Act. Whether it's the Employment Agencies act, or whether it's the Broadcasting Act, it puts everybody in the same parallel situation, of chaos. In other words, what happened was the newspapers were stating that we were in violation of the Employment Agencies Act, yet they were the ones that were bullying us and they were in the same position, so therefore, the Attorney General overnight turned around and said if they have the right to run, so do we.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12902 The same thing works within the broadcasting situation. If we are not given the latitude and the ability to basically launch and have that same quality as spoken underneath the language of the Broadcasting Act, well then that impedes our rights, and therefore, what that does, is it creates discrimination. And the only way to really kind of settle it is either to give us the MUST CARRY decision or to have everybody be denied. And that's what happened in the Saskatchewan decision for the job shops. It was either that the newspapers quit or they allow us to do our job in the job shop end of it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12903 So the same thing works here. We're a Metis Television Network. We're asking for a quality. We're asking for all the same things. APTN has less than 1 % Metis programming on that network. And this comes to the area of programming. We're hard pressed to find any other broadcasting companies out there that have any more Metis programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12904 APTN and other interventions make note that Vision, APTN and others MUST CARRY and MMTN will take a market share of what they have. Well, with only 1% of Metis content in the APTN model, we're not really taking any of their share, really. And what it really comes down to, is the aboriginal task force on broadcasting has stated that APTN is predominantly an Inuit broadcaster. And that's right in the actual report.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12905 MMTN has been denied access to a market share, and it's also been denied access to I guess the same things that Vision and APTN and CPAC get to enjoy, the protection under the 91H and that is what the one thing that everybody's making a big mistake on here. Not the Commission, but the BTU's and their interventions, when they come to you and they say that we do not meet that exceptional standard for MUST CARRY, and we do as the Metis people of this country.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12906 So the CRTC points out that the programming and part of what we have to come up with ‑‑ and we must point out, APTN, Vision and others are not given ‑‑ they were not given unrealistic conditions to watch their network ‑‑ and we were given unrealistic conditions of license for decision two thousand, two, three forty five.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12907 With the BDU's being the gatekeeper, they locked us out as tight as they could. And really ‑‑ it really makes no sense ‑‑ in a supposedly a world where they want to be aboriginal friendly. It doesn't show any kind of aboriginal friendliness whatsoever, or a commitment to completing the Broadcasting Act. And like I say, they have been very good at tying your hands, but they don't want their hands tied.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12908 Because of the unrealistic conditions that were placed on MMTN, most of the certainty put into ‑‑ this certainly puts us into a terrible position. In fact, the only position that can be realized is that we were being set up to fail. And that's the only thing that we can really honestly say.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12909 And, according to the Act, it's language of a quality ‑‑ is MMTN is denied 91H than all 91H designators should be denied, until further access and protection is granted to the Metis Mitchell Television Network. You must do the right thing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12910 Legally, the Counsel, or legally, you must do the right thing, and cancel all 91H licenses in Category One or Two. It doesn't really matter. You must let MMTN have that protection, or you must cancel that. It is a situation of a human rights factor.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12911 The Attorney General would agree that this has been unrealistic conditions for us to launch. We are certainly willing to ‑‑ I have had many conversations with the Attorney General's office about this ‑‑ and it would be basically because of discrimination.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12912 The BDU's must then, if the intention of the CRTC is to deny MMTN a 91H, deny all, again, networks carriage, just as MMTN has been denied, this has caused us again, a great amount of chaos. MMTN does not meet ‑‑ or does, I'm sorry ‑‑ MMTN meets the taste test as far as the exceptional aspect of this application for 91H MUST CARRY.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12913 And I understand that the interventions came back from Shaw last night and Rogers and they were very complacent on the fact that the digital system was created and the 91H kind of ties up the digital system by granting MUST CARRY designation to certain broadcasters. Again, though, they're not looking at the exceptional status of this. They have ignored the exceptional status of this application to the Commission and they have done everything they can to make sure that it doesn't come to the agenda.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12914 Basically, what has gone on in the past, and through the interventions, is that there is a little bit of positiveness to it from the APTN part of it, but there's also a lot of intimidation and antagonizing to the Metis Television Network, and to Metis programming through APTN specifically. I mean, I, as a broadcaster ‑‑ not a broadcaster, but as a producer, really don't want to do business with APTN any more. They have not really filled the need, and they don't want to fill the need. So it makes it completely difficult.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12915 But now that I'm now a little more understanding of the hearing process, I have to make note of the fact that it's been a learning process for me and I thank you for that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12916 And on the area of programming again, we look at the programming aspect of this ‑‑ cause APTN brings this up ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 12917 THE SECRETARY: I'm sorry Mr. Schaffer.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12918 MR. SCHAFFER: I think that if they were in the same position ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 12919 THE SECRETARY: I'm sorry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12920 MR. SCHAFFER: They wouldn't be able to. I'm sorry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12921 THE SECRETARY: Can you please just conclude. Your time has expired.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12922 MR. SCHAFFER: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12923 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12924 MR. SCHAFFER: All right. Again, as I say, I don't think that if they had to go through the same thing that we do, and try to get carriage from the satellite or BTU's, without the 91H carriage, they ‑‑ you would hear nothing but chaos stories coming out of them. We have been doing this for seven years, just on this area alone. And it is frustrating, so with that said, I could go on and on and on, but I'm sure we can talk about other things later. Thank you for allowing us this opportunity.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12925 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Schaffer, Ms. Schaffer, Mr. Gustin, thank you very much for your comments this morning. We have no questions for you. Madame Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12926 MR. SCHAFFER: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12927 THE SECRETARY: And now I would ask Diversity Television to respond to all the interventions that were filed to their applications.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12928 THE SECRETARY: Please present yourself, and you have 10 minutes. Thank you.
REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
LISTNUM 1 \l 12929 MR. DE SYLVA: Thank you. Good morning, Madame Chair, and Commissioners. I would like to introduce first of all the panel this morning, many of whom all of us who you've seen yesterday. I'm Paul De Sylva. And this is Amos Adetuyi beside me. And beside him is Patricia Scarlett. Beside me on my right is Jim Byrd. And beside Jim, is Joel Fortune, and Floyd Kane beside him. And in the back row, Les Lawrence from Diversity, and Wayne Albo, our financial consultant.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12930 Thank you for the opportunity to reply to intervention. We have of course filed written replies to the written interventions, Madame Chair, and we have received ‑‑ so these comments will be somewhat abbreviated this morning. I'm sure everybody will be relieved to hear that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12931 First, we would like to thank the many positive interveners in this proceeding, who wrote letters in support of Canada One TV. Many of these interveners provided personal accounts supporting the comprehensive research in our application. They have spoken of the challenges they face as visible minority and aboriginal Canadians in finding an outlet for their talents. And even in seeing themselves and their stories represented on television.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12932 You will recall our existential discussion yesterday. Many of these letters express directly the importance of insuring full representation of Canadian society on television. You heard at first hand yesterday submissions from the prospective of a parent, second generation young Canadians, from an experienced producer and broadcaster, still waiting for change, and from a committed advocate against the marginalization and disenfranchisement in the system.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12933 Personally, I was moved by what they said, and it reinforced for me the importance of what we are proposing to do.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12934 Now I would like to respond to a few of the comments made yesterday by various broadcasting distribution undertakings. We were struck by how the BDU's universally each attacked not so much our application, as the entire notion of any pro‑active action within the framework of the Broadcasting Act. Despite what the BDU's say, televisions will still be in the living rooms of homes across the nation tomorrow, and for a good many years to come. And Canadians will continue to be BDU subscribers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12935 We agree with the Commission that the basic level of service remains relevant. That it will continue to be relevant in a digital environment, and that the basic level of service should and can fulfil certain important broadcasting policy objectives. Technology has not, and it will not, render obsolete, reasoned, sensible regulation to achieve broadcasting policy objectives.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12936 We were also struck by how little effort was spent by the BDU's universally on commenting seriously on the applications being considered in this proceeding, including our own. We were gratified, however, to learn that Québecor considers our application to fulfil three out of the six criteria.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12937 Other BDU's said we didn't meet any, or that all broadcasting services met the criteria. This is not a serious way to approach important issues.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12938 Regarding the question raised by the BDU's of increasing the size of the basic service, and imposing new rules on BDU's, we note that the digital migration framework should, with time, lead to a smaller basic service, and more regulatory flexibility. That is one of the objectives of the policy. The cable BDU concerns seem to be in relation to the transitional period, rather than the end point.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12939 As visible minority people have been waiting a long time for change, we have some sympathy for the BDU's. We note, in any case, that those concerns don't really apply to Canada One. As a new service, Canada One will need to be carried by all larger BDU's, cable, and satellite. There is no lack of competitive parity there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12940 With respect to the concerns expressed by the CCSA, Canada One has suggested carriage on larger BDU's. The smallest BDU's represented by the CCSA would, similar to past CRTC rules, not be required to distribute our service. We discussed yesterday, the possibility that Canada One TV could be subject to an order requiring carriage only by Class One BDU's and DTH undertakings in English language markets.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12941 As we discussed yesterday, we would accept those carriage terms, reluctantly, if the Commission was satisfied that carriage in Class Two systems would pose an undue burden on those systems.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12942 An argument was also made that some subscribers should not have to supposedly "subsidize" the services that would be of interest to others. Commissioner's first and second generation Canadians buy through basic service to purchase foreign language channels. Indeed, all visible minority and aboriginal peoples pay basic service just like any other subscriber. The services on basic, as we have shown, which include the strongest Canadian conventional TV brands, as well as the multi ethnic services, do not adequately reflect the citizens in the highest cost, highest impact, and most intensely funded programming drama.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12943 We suggest that these individuals are already paying a much larger cross subsidy to the system, if it can be called that, than we are asking from others. That to us, is the unfairness, that needs to be addressed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12944 We can though, agree with the BDU's on one point. Our application, and your decision, is about choice. Where we differ with BDU's, is that we believe that Canadian citizens who do not now see the system serving them as Canadians, deserve that choice.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12945 Some may say that may be important. But, is it exceptionally important? One's perception on that question may depend on where you sit. I can tell you that it is exceptionally important to me, our team, the people who have supported us in this initiative, and to many, many of the six million visible minority and aboriginal peoples in Canada. It will also be exceptionally important to many of the one million new immigrants arriving every four years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12946 The Broadcasting Act and Section 3.1.D speaks directly about the broadcasting system serving the needs and interests and reflecting the circumstances and aspirations of all Canadians, and reflecting the multi‑cultural and multi‑racial nature of Canadian society. We have shown how there is still significant under representation in the broadcasting system and in its' opportunities. This persists, despite years of initiatives and government and regulatory pressures.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12947 The current state of representation in the broadcasting system sends a direct message to visible minorities and aboriginal peoples that they are not a full part of Canadian society. We believe that this is damaging to Canada ‑‑ actually is damaging to all Canadians ‑‑ and is not consistent with the Broadcasting Act.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12948 We have shown how Canadian society is becoming more multi‑cultural and multi‑racial. The demographic projections are all well known. It is exceptionally important that we, as a Society, act now, while we have the ability to make a difference to ease that change.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12949 We don't want to look back and think about the opportunity we missed. The broadcasting system is a powerful social and yes, economic force, and we should not underestimate the impact that it can have. The positive difference it can make.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12950 Look at the APTN example. It is time, we feel, to make a bold step, that can change the poor position in which visible minorities find themselves in mainstream broadcasting in Canada. And that will make our system even better and stronger to deal with change in the future. Madame Chair and Commissioners, I thank you for your courtesy and attention in this process.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12951 We have filed our take away work that was requested of us yesterday, regarding our nature of service and percentage of original hours. On the question of our nature of service, we have clarified the portion regarding the qualifying conditions be met by all programming exempted on the service. We state:
"All of the programming on Canada One TV will reflect multi‑cultural and multi‑racial themes and perspectives"
LISTNUM 1 \l 12952 Meaning more specifically, it will be relevant to, and reflect the lives, cultures, and expression of visible minorities and aboriginal people in Canada. We have provided an explanation of how we would determine relevance for Canadian and non‑Canadian programming, and we would accept those explanations as part of the nature of service.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12953 We will continue to be equally bound by our commitment to consult and interact regularly with our advisory council regarding the application of the nature of our service. We would be pleased, Madame Chair, to answer any questions you may have.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12954 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. de Sylva, and your colleagues, thank you very much for your comments this morning. We have no further questions for you. Thank you. Madame Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12955 MR. DE SYLVA: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12956 THE SECRETARY: I will now ask the National Broadcast Reading Service (NBRS) to come forward. Please introduce yourself, and you have 10 minutes. Thank you.
REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
LISTNUM 1 \l 12957 MR. WESEEN: Thank you and good morning Commissioners. My name is Gerald Weseen. To my left is Debra McLaughlin. To her left is Rob Malcolmson. To my right is Stuart Robertson. And to his right is Betty Nobel.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12958 Madame Chair, members of the Commission, before beginning our reply to the interventions that were presented last evening, we would like to address two key concerns that were raised by the Commission following our presentation yesterday.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12959 First, the Media Access Trust, and the proposal to transfer any excess earnings from the operations of the accessible channel to the Trust.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12960 In response to the Commission's concerns, let us say for the record that we are prepared to eliminate the Trust altogether. This means that any earnings will be retained by the licensee company, and fully reinvested in the accessible channel, and therefore the Canadian Broadcasting system.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12961 Second, with respect to our proposed 20 cent pass through fee. In response to concerns about affordability of the basic service, while at the same time taking into account the requirements of our business plan, we are prepared to reduce our requested pass through fee from 20 cents to 18 cents in years four through seven of the license term, when digital penetration has ramped up. This represents a 10% reduction in our pass through fee.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12962 In our view, the reduction in pass through fees strikes an appropriate balance between the important issue of affordability and the equally fundamental issue of providing a high quality, relevant and engaging program schedule to Canada's blind and vision impaired community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12963 We would also like to address two proposed conditions of license discussed during our presentation. Commissioner Cram asked what percentage of the 500 hours per year of new described programming would constitute Canadian programming. We are pleased to advise that we would accept a condition of license requiring that 150 hours per year, or 30%, would be Canadian programming. And this is because the bulk of the existing described programming in the system today is Canadian.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12964 Next, we are prepared to accept a condition of license that no less than 50% of programming that be accessible channelling engages a third party to describe, will be sourced to description companies other that Audio Vision Canada, or any other entity related to NBRS.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12965 We continue to believe that quality of work and competitive price must be the ultimate barometer for choosing a supplier, but this minimum commitment to services other than AVC, indicates good faith.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12966 We trust this response to the issues raised during our presentation, and we confirm it for the record, that we will file written responses to the various undertakings that we discussed during our presentation by the close of proceedings on Friday.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12967 We would now like to respond to the various interventions that were presented last evening, but before we do, we would like to take this opportunity to thank the over 900 interveners that supported this application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12968 The BDU's agree that this is a service that should be carried on their systems. We heard, for example, from Mr. Engelhart of Rogers that we have lots of room, and the accessible channels should be carried.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12969 We heard from Mr. Frank of Bell Video Group, that the goal is to get as much described programming on air as possible. While the BDU's admit that accessible channel will serve the needs of the vision impaired community, they remain steadfast in their resolve not to distribute their service other than on terms that they dictate.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12970 Madame Chair, members of the Commission, it's clear to us that without MUST CARRY status, the accessible channel will simply never become a reality. It's also clear from the record, that there are a multitude of problems preventing the delivery of described video programming to the vision impaired.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12971 In our submission, the problems identified, not only by us in our testimony, but also by the BDU's themselves in their interventions, established quite clearly that only a MUST CARRY, 24 hour a day open description channel, can solve these barriers to access.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12972 In our presentation, we identified the accessibility challenges presented by the digital remote control. None of the BDU's disputed this fact. We also pointed out that high profile US acquired prime time programming is simply not being provided in described form. Quite simply, if it's going to be described, we are going to have to do it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12973 We heard from Mr. Allan of Rogers that described video pass through as ultimately dependent upon the will of US decoder manufacturers like Motorola and Scientific Atlanta. Without DVC capability installed in the box by the US manufacturer, it's clear that the problems with pass through will continue to plague our digital world.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12974 In our view, members of Canada's vision impaired community should not have to wait until US hardware suppliers determine if and when pass through capability will be made available.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12975 We further heard from Mr. Allan that Rogers does not control the printed programming guides that identify available described programming. He is correct. This is yet another barrier to accessibility that is beyond the control of the vision impaired community, and indeed, the BDU's.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12976 The BDU's were also quite forthright in admitting that what little described programming is available on the system today, is not being consistently passed through. For example, Mr. Ferris from Shaw Star Choice stated that their analogue receivers don't accept the SAP stream, and that on the digital side of the equation, pass through is admittedly not where it needs to be.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12977 And Mr. Boyd on behalf of the CCSA, described that the pass through efforts of their members as sporadic in the analogue world, and non‑existent in digital.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12978 The other key point to bear in mind is the amount of described programming that is available on the system today. Based on current conditions of license, conventional broadcasters are required to pass through four hours per week, only two of which are original Canadian programs, and a limited number of specialty services are required to do just two hours per week.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12979 We are appreciative of Bell Express View's efforts in the area of described video. However, the fact remains that Bell Express View is only able to pass through what broadcasters are mandated to provide and only to those who choose to subscribe to satellite TV. Bell Express View's solution is not a substitute for what the accessible channel would provide.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12980 The accessible channel would provide 168 hours per week of open described programming on one channel. Compare this to the twelve hours per week of CTV, Global and CHUM programming that Bell Express View is currently mandated to pass through. Only 50% of which is original. We believe the benefit of our proposal is self‑evident.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12981 We also listened carefully to the concerns presented by Mr. Ray and Ms Leclair. Their concern is one of ghetto‑ization. They fear that the accessible channel will act as a substitute for the ongoing obligations of broadcasters and BDU's to provide and deliver described video programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12982 The record indicates that licensing the accessible channel will not be used by licensees to shirk from their regulatory obligations. Commissioner Del Val asked each of the BDU's if they would maintain their pass through obligations if the accessible channel was licensed. The answer in each case was yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12983 And last, but not least, is the issue of exceptional importance and the use of Section 91H. The BDU's all deem the accessible channel not to be of exceptional importance and caution against using Section 91H in a digital world. We disagree. The fact is that Section 31P of the Broadcasting Act, a statute you are charged to administer, specifically requires that programming should be made accessible to disabled persons as resources become available for that purpose.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12984 The accessible channel has brought together all the necessary resources to provide a 24 hour open description channel. It has harnesses advancements in technology to achieve real time, and short turn around description. It has identified a multitude of programming sources, and it will utilize the description expertise of a Canadian pioneer, Audio Vision Canada, and others.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12985 In short, it has presented a complete solution that overcomes all of the barriers to accessibility that have been identified at this hearing. We should also note that the Broadcasting Act does not restrict the use of Section 91H to the analogue world. The powers granted to the Commission under Section 91H transcend technology.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12986 That's the issue for you Commissioners, is whether you're prepared to use Section 91H to accomplish the objective set out in Section 31P, and we think you should.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12987 Betty.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12988 MS. NOBEL: Madame Chair, Commissioners, you heard from Mr. Stein of Shaw that the digital world is all about choice. We agree. Clearly, the vision impaired community wants one choice, the accessible channel.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12989 We heard yesterday from Ms. Leclair should do the right thing. Providing mandatory carriage for the accessible channel is the right thing, as you have heard throughout this hearing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12990 For any proposal, there will be some opposition, but it is obvious from the many interventions that supported this application, that the vision impaired community wants the accessible channel to increase their access to, and enjoyment of, television programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12991 Without complaint, vision impaired cable subscribers have long supported a system that they can't completely access. Now, the system needs to support us. Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12992 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Del Val.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12993 COMMISSIONER DEL VAL: Thank you. I only have one question arising from Bell Express View's intervention yesterday. If the subscription base of DTH services that do pass through 100% of video described programming was taken out of your financial projections, would your business plan still be viable?
LISTNUM 1 \l 12994 MS MCLAUGHLIN: I guess that depends on some of the conditions you asked us to commit to yesterday. I mean obviously, we would have to go back and re‑work it. I guess on a consumer basis, my concern would be that, while they provide options within the scope of what Canadian broadcasters provide now, it's really not going to improve the amount of selection in the system. There will be no US. There won't be a channel that you go to and it's simply description 24/7. You do have to go through the range to find it. And in some cases when there is no description, there's no soundtrack. And for a vision impaired person, you wouldn't know where you are. And in some cases, it's just the regular. So you know, it's a long answer. We'd have to re‑work it, but my concern would be, you're actually cutting out a whole portion of the value of the service we proposed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12995 COMMISSIONER DEL VAL: Thank you. Thank you Madame Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12996 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Weseen and your colleagues, thank you very much for your comments this morning. We do not have any more questions for you. Thank you. Madame Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12997 THE SECRETARY: I would now ask Avis de Recherche and Mr. Geracitano and All Points Bulletin to come to the presentation table please.
REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
LISTNUM 1 \l 12998 LA SECRÉTAIRE: Vous avez dix minutes pour répondre aux interventions. Merci.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12999 M. GÉRACITANO: Merci.
Madame la Présidente, mesdames et messieurs les conseillers et membres du personnel, comme vous le savez, je suis Vincent Géracitano, président fondateur de Avis de recherche et All Points Bulletin.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13000 Je vous remercie, tout d'abord, de m'offrir une dernière occasion de plaider ma cause devant vous. J'ai entendu hier soir les représentants de l'industrie et de la distribution venir vous redire qu'ils s'opposaient à toutes les demandes de reconnaissance de statut 91H quelle que soit la nature du service et la mission qu'il ait accomplie.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13001 Il n'y avait aucun élément nouveau dans leurs représentations, par rapport aux interventions écrites qu'ils avaient déjà déposées. Et j'avais déjà réfuté point par point leur argument dans ma réplique écrite.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13002 Vos journées sont longues et ma nuit a été courte. Je ne vais donc pas reprendre ce matin chacun de ces points. Il y en a quelques‑uns, cependant, sur lesquels je voudrais revenir en tentant d'y apporter un éclairage nouveau. Les EDR vous ont dit hier que, selon elles, Avis de recherche et All Points Bulletin ne servent pas l'intérêt public national.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13003 Permettez‑moi d'être insolent et de vous poser la question suivante: Qui est le plus compétent pour établir si un service contribue à la sécurité publique? Ces quelques distributeurs, au nom de leur intérêt comme... économique privé, ou les hauts responsables politiques et milliers d'experts ouvrant concrètement en sécurité publique qui nous ont appuyés à travers de leur association ou des organismes qui les emploient?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13004 Rassurez‑vous que je ne vais pas toutes les nommer. Mais je veux souligner, parmi les quelque 150 interventions à l'appui à nos demandes figurent, entre autres, le ministère de la Sécurité publique de l'Alberta, du Nouveau‑Brunswick et du Québec, la Gendarmerie royale du Canada, la Sureté du Québec, la Police provinciale de l'Ontario, The B.C. Association of Chiefs of Police, ainsi que The Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13005 Presque tous les chefs de police municipaux ou régionaux de pratiquement toutes les grandes villes canadiennes, de Halifax à Vancouver, en passant par St. John, Québec, Montréal, Ottawa, Winnipeg, Saskatoon, Edmonton et Calgary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13006 De nombreuses associations nationales et provinciales regroupant des dizaines de milliers de policiers et policières de toutes les régions du Canada. Près de 40 maires ou conseils municipaux d'autant de villes canadiennes, des dizaines d'organismes de prévention ou de protection civile, tels Canadian Crime Stoppers Association, Service d'incendie de Montréal, Sun Youth, Jeunesse Soleil, the Missing Children's Network et l'Association de sécurité civile du Québec.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13007 Je crois que poser la question c'est y répondre. Certains de ces distributeurs vous ont dit que même si vous reconnaissiez qu'ils servent l'intérêt public national, il n'y avait nul besoin de rendre la distribution de mes services obligatoire. Il suffisait de les laisser négocier avec moi de bonne foi.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13008 Parlons‑en. Avis de recherche est distribué par Vidéotron à mes frais depuis octobre 2004. Depuis ce temps et même avant, j'ai sollicité des rencontres avec tous les grands distributeurs du Canada pour les convaincre de distribuer mes services. Je leur ai écrit et téléphoné; je leur ai transmis un dossier complet sur notre service en ondes, ainsi que les témoignages d'appréciation des corps policiers avec lesquels nous collaborons.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13009 Rien ni fit. La plupart d'entre eux n'ont jamais retourné mes appels, accusé réception de mes lettres ou accepté de me rencontrer. La réalité c'est qu'ils n'ont aucun intérêt à distribuer des services dont la mission fondamentale et exclusive est de servir l'intérêt public national.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13010 Ce qu'ils veulent, ils vous l'ont dit, d'ailleurs, ce sont des services ayant un "mass appeal", des services divertissants, attrayants, susceptibles d'attirer des auditoires dignes des émissions les plus populaires, ce qui est en contradiction profonde avec la nature de mes services, qui ne comportent pas une seule émission de divertissement et qui se refuse à tout sensationnalisme.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13011 Leur mission n'est pas de diffuser ni de chercher à concurrencer C.S.I. Las Vegas, American Idol, Royal Air Farce ou Hockey Night in Canada. Elle est d'offrir aux organismes chargés d'appliquer la loi des occasions constantes et quotidiennes d'entrer en relation avec les communautés qu'ils desservent et d'obtenir d'elles des informations utiles à retrouver le plus grand nombre possible des 65 000 enfants qui disparaissent chaque année au Canada, à capturer les criminels en fuite ou des personnes en liberté illégale et à prévenir de nouveaux crimes, fraudes ou accidents. Bref, rendre la société canadienne plus sécuritaire et respectueuse des lois.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13012 J'avais avec moi, hier, des responsables de la G.R.C. et du service de police de la ville de Montréal qui sont venus vous dire que ça marchait, que ça donnait des résultats très concrets, tangibles, appréciables. Et vous avez aux dossiers publics plusieurs dizaines de témoignages d'autres corps policiers et organismes qui le confirment.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13013 Quelle meilleure preuve puis‑je vous fournir?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13014 MR. GERACITANO: The distributors also came here and argued that all that matters is that the consumer must be left with the freedom to choose. However, for a consumer to be able to exercise that freedom, it would help if our services were to be placed on the menu. And that is something that the distributors have failed to do, despite several years of effort on my part. So whose freedom are they really looking out after? The consumers, or their own.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13015 Those opposing my applications have also argued that the financial burden placed on consumers because of the additional costs would jeopardize the transition to digital. Let's be serious. To put the numbers into perspective, at six cents per month, a consumer would be able to subscribe to 500 years of All Points Bulletin for what is essentially the difference in cost between a regular 32 inch TV set, and an HD compatible TV set.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13016 Madame President, who can argue that 72 cents per year represents an infinitesimal fraction compared to the benefits of public security that such a service can generate. Isn't the life a single child worth the cost of half a cup of instant coffee per year.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13017 En terminant, madame la présidente, je voudrais souligner qu'Avis de recherche et All Points Bulletin ne sont pas des services qui s'adressent à un groupe étroitement défini ou ciblé de téléspectateurs canadiens ou qui visent à répondre aux besoins ou à défendre les intérêts particuliers d'un groupe.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13018 Nos services s'adressent à l'ensemble des téléspectateurs canadiens et leur diffusion au service numérique de base contribuerait à améliorer la sécurité publique de l'ensemble de la société, des communautés et des citoyens canadiens.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13019 Je pense avoir démontré qu'Avis de recherche et All Points Bulletin servent, effectivement, l'intérêt public national. J'ai soumis aussi tous les éléments démontrant que sans distribution obligatoire au service numérique de base, ses services, non seulement ne pourront pas remplir adéquatement cette mission, mais qu'ils seront condamnés à disparaître.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13020 Almost three weeks ago, I paid our only distributor another $52,000 as I was once again threatened with having the service disconnected. Within a week of the payment, the phone rang once again. It was our collection department demanding more money. As I mentioned yesterday, despite the fact that we offer a public service that benefits the community, we must pay for doing so.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13021 Some of the very same people that claim to have the consumers' interests at heart, send letters such as this one threatening to disconnect the service that provides a valuable service to the community, unless they are paid.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13022 Due to the seriousness of the matter that we broadcast, and because we are only available on one single distributor in Quebec, we are unable to generate any advertising revenues. I suppose that if we were to broadcast images of pretty girls on a beach late at night, inviting viewers to call 900 services, we can maybe make ends meet. But in my opinion, that would detract from the seriousness of the mission, and jeopardize our credibility as a public interest service.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13023 C'est pourquoi, madame la Présidente, je vous demande de rejeter les arguments des distributeurs et de reconnaître qu'Avis de recherche et All Points Bulletin servent l'intérêt public national et de leur accorder, en conséquence, une distribution obligatoire au service numérique (au service numérique de base, c'est‑à‑dire) de tous les grands distributeurs du Canada, chacun selon la langue du marché ou de l'abonné. Je vous remercie de votre attention.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13024 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Geracitano, thank you very much for your comments this morning. Madame Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13025 THE SECRETARY: And now I would ask Faith and Spirit Media to come to the table please. Please introduce yourself, and you have 10 minutes to respond to the intervention. Thank you.
REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
LISTNUM 1 \l 13026 MR. ROBERTS: Thank you. Madame Chair, Commissioners. Thank you for having us back. My name is Bill Roberts, President and CEO of Vision TV and with me to my right is Brant Kostandoff, our general Counsel.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13027 On behalf of Vision TV, we have a few brief comments in reply to the interventions, both written and verbal from the BDU's. We appreciate that this is not strictly speaking a competitive process. But there is an natural inclination to compare the various applications for basic carriage. In doing so, we want to thank Québecor Media as we have found the chart in their written intervention to be quite helpful in assessing the applications against the criteria established by the Commission, and against each other.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13028 While Québecor gave Vision TV a score of five out of six, second only to MéteoMédia and weather combined, we of course would score Vision TV a full six out of six. Where we differ is in our view, that the broad distribution enabled by basic carriage is essential for Vision TV to fulfil it's mandate. To nurture diversity and tolerance in Canada, and to achieve the policy objective of balance, multi‑faith religious content in the broadcasting system. The BDU's are rightfully concerned about increasing the cost of basic service. We share that concern, and urge the Commission to exercise caution when considering whether to grant licenses to new applicants looking for guaranteed distribution with substantial subscriber fees.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13029 But that's not the case with Vision TV. Approving the Vision TV application does not, and will not, add to the cost of basic service. It will enable Canada's multi‑faith channel to continue to fulfil a policy, and a policy objective the CRTC has identified as a priority for the system.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13030 To sum, that may sound like an existing licensee seeking to maintain it's privileged status. And to a certain extent, that's true. But where interveners have suggested that such privilege is based solely on the date of licensing, in the case of Vision TV, that is not true. Vision TV was licensed by the Commission in answer to a public policy imperative. How to address religious broadcasting in Canada, given the challenges of single faith broadcasting in other jurisdictions, and to better reflect Canada's spiritual and cultural mosaic through television.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13031 A national, multi‑faith service was the CRTC's solution. There is no other applicant for basic carriage that was licensed in response to a public policy initiative. The CRTC has already found, as a matter of policy, that the distribution privilege granted to Vision TV is appropriate in the context of Canada's approach to religious broadcasting.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13032 I want to spend a moment addressing the BDU's suggestion that we can rely on the market to achieve policy objectives.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13033 Taken to an extreme, the argument suggests that we don't need any regulation in the Canadian Broadcasting system, that a market free of regulation will achieve the objectives of the Broadcasting Act all on it's own. We disagree.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13034 In our view, the Chair of the CRTC had it right. In his presentation to the CFTPA, in February, when he said, and I quote:
"...market forces are driven by strictly rational economic objectives. They don't put any value on culture per se, yet, broadly speaking, the prime goal of the Broadcasting Act is to safeguard, enrich, and strengthen Canadian culture. The goal thus becomes one of directing or steering market forces, so that they lead to the attainment of the objectives of the Broadcasting Act."
LISTNUM 1 \l 13035 End of quote. There is a need for regulation to ensure the cultural priorities of the Act are being achieved, and that the broadcasting system is nurturing Canadian identity.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13036 Because the basic television service is at the core of the broadcasting system, it is appropriate that it should be subjected to a higher standard of regulation to achieve the policy priorities established by the Commission.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13037 The BDU's, and Rogers in particular, have attempted to establish that the dual status services do not require basic carriage to sustain a viable business model. But the question raised in Visional Migration framework, was not whether a basic carriage is necessary for a business model, we acknowledge many services have demonstrated success without basic distribution. The question was whether basic carriage is essential to the business plan, and implementation of the specific commitments of the applicant.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13038 For Vision TV, there is a substantive risk to viability if digital basic carriage is not approved. But it will be impossible for Vision TV to maintain it's high level of investment in Canadian programming, to continue exhibiting 65% Canadian content, and most important, to fulfil it's mandate as Canada's multi‑faith channel without broad, national distribution as part of the basic digital service.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13039 The BDU's have also argued that the exceptional importance of the dual status services have not been established. But they have failed to address Vision TV's national and international award winning contributions to the advancement of diversity, tolerance, and religious freedom. All of which are values fundamental to Canadian identity.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13040 The advancement and exploration of religion is recognized by Canadian society to be in the public interest. And the Commission has held religion to be a matter of public concern. Vision TV's exceptional importance to ensure that a balanced, civil, and diverse presentation of faith perspectives is to all Canadians. That objective can only be achieved with Vision TV's continued distribution in the digital basic service.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13041 There is no other channel that will assure the Canadian Broadcasting system reflects our nation's multi‑faith heritage.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13042 Again, to borrow from the Chair's remarks at the prime time conference, the basic service should be, quote:
"a special place within the broadcasting system for Canadian voices, points of view, and ways of expressing ourselves."
LISTNUM 1 \l 13043 End of quote.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13044 Reflecting the varied religious practices and diverse beliefs of all Canadians, Vision TV is unique. The only channel of it's kind in the world. Vision TV makes an exceptional contribution to gain expression, and is deserving of a special place in the broadcasting system. A place in the digital basic service. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13045 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Roberts, Mr. Kostandoff, thank you very much for your participation this morning. Madame Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13046 THE SECRETARY: I would now ask Pelmorex to come to the presentation table please. Please present yourself, and you have ten minutes to respond to the interventions.
REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
LISTNUM 1 \l 13047 MR. TEMPLE: If I might, just a little omission from yesterday, if I could just have a moment. When we listed the services, or the provinces that were joining our project to disseminate provincial warnings, in addition to Nova Scotia and the Yukon Territory, we had forgotten Prince Edward Island. And just because they're the smallest, we didn't want to further embarrass them and get ourselves in trouble, so I promised I would mention them. So they will also be participating in the morning project.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13048 MR. MORRISSETTE: Good morning, Madame Chair, Vice‑Chairs, members of the Commission. My name is Pierre Morrissette, President and CEO of Pelmorex Communications Inc., licensee of the Weather Network. With me today, to my left, are Luc Perreault, Vice‑President Affiliate and government relations. Beside him, Sheryl Plouffe, News Editor for the Weather Network. To my right, Paul Temple, Senior Vice‑President, Regulatory and Strategic Affairs, and Alysia Charlton, our Senior Vice‑President and Chief Financial Officer.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13049 Before we address the comments of the few opposing interveners, I would like to thank the 15,000 Canadians who individually wrote in support of our application. Almost half of these letters received by the Commission are in binders beside me.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13050 In addition, the Commission received petitions containing more than 2,000 names, and we received at our offices, hundreds of additional supporting phone calls from individuals that do not have the language skills, or computer or fax equipment, to write the Commission. Their message is unequivocal. They asked you to ensure that our services are carried on basic for three reasons.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13051 First, these Canadians believe that the Weather Network and Metro Media are a public service and essential to their personal safety.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13052 Second, they do not want to pay more for our services, and many cannot afford to.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13053 Third, they do not believe their satellite and cable providers will necessarily act in their best interests.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13054 In this reply, we will address the main issues raised by the four appearing interveners who oppose our application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13055 BDU's suggested that a 91H order is inappropriate in the 21st century. They fail to understand, however, that Section 91H is technology neutral, and is simply a means for the Commission to achieve the objectives of the Broadcasting Act. It is a mechanism to implement the criteria outlined by the Commission in it's public notice.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13056 It is, and remains, a perfectly appropriate approach for the Commission to use. More significantly, no one who filed comments in this proceeding has contradicted the evidence we filed demonstrating the exceptional importance of our services.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13057 The only large BDU that applied to Commission's complete test to our services was Quebecois. And it found that we did in fact, meet the criteria set out in the public notice.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13058 The fact that other BDU's have said that none of the applicants have demonstrated the exceptional importance of their services is not surprising. Because they do not want any applicant to be considered exceptional.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13059 MR. TEMPLE: The second issue raised by the opposing BDU's, is that in a fiercely competitive digital distribution environment, a decision approving our application, with limit packaging flexibility and consumer choice. The BDU market shows little evidence of competition. BDU's life in the marketplace for high‑end, bundled customers with HD TV, and VOD offerings.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13060 While the vast majority of the remaining customers have little real choice, most customers are still captive to their BDU, either because they've committed to capital investments for DTH equipment, or committed to buying bundles of services which makes switching between competitors a costly exercise.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13061 Basic only subscribers are largely ignored. The significant increases and the cost of basic service by these BDU's, which are noted in the attached table, further illustrate the lack of real competition.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13062 Where else can competitors increase prices $3 at a time in unison? A sufficiently competitive market simply does not exist to protect the interests of consumers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13063 Opposing BDU's have also argued against approval of our application in the name of consumer choice. In the digital universe, true subscriber choice is in practice, a myth. It is uneconomical and impractical for consumers and distributors alike to deal in an a la carte world of 500 channels. There will always be packages established by distributors. These packages will always be promoted and produced by distributors. Consumers will always be buying services they do not want because of these packaging decisions made by distributors.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13064 In this case, however, consumers have told us they want the Weather Network and MéteoMédia offered as part of the basic service, and they do not want that choice made by BDU's.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13065 When rate reductions are extracted from us, to remain on basic, or when we are tiered, the financial benefit will flow only to the BDU. The consumer will not benefit. Where is the choice?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13066 MR. MORRISSETTE: The next point that we wish to address is the argument by the four interveners that our programming is readily available from other sources.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13067 Literally thousands of Canadians wrote to the Commission in this proceeding to say that they depend on our programming because there are no reasonable alternatives. They said in many rural communities and small towns, the Weather Network and Metro Media are the only source of local weather. Even in larger Canadian centres, up to date weather and road safety information may be restricted to a few newscasts a day, and unavailable on weekends.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13068 One third of Canadians do not have personal computers in the home, let alone internet access. These Canadians include some of Canada's most vulnerable groups, like low income families, the disabled, and seniors. No other broadcaster provides Canadians with up to date local weather every ten minutes. No one else has weather warnings, watches, or advisories, or takes the time to explain the significance of severe weather.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13069 No one else carries all provincial warnings, local UV reports, and pollen reports. The programming we provide is simply not available elsewhere on a regular and easily accessible basis for all Canadians.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13070 M. PERREAULT: Hier, les EDR vous ont dit que Pelmorex a bénéficié du statut double pendant près de vingt ans. Nous reconnaissons ce fait et nous savons aussi qu'il a bénéficié à la stabilité de notre entreprise. C'est certainement une des raisons principales qui font que notre entreprise est toujours, aujourd'hui, indépendante.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13071 Cette offre a contribué à l'atteinte des objectifs de la loi sur la radiodiffusion et a aussi grandement bénéficié aux consommateurs. Mais le focus de cette instance est sur les vingt prochaines années, sur l'avenir.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13072 Sans l'offre du service de Météomédia ou Weather Network au service de base numérique, les Canadiens n'auront plus accès à des prévisions météorologiques, à des avertissements et à des bulletins sur l'état des routes à un prix abordable.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13073 De plus, sans l'offre au service de base numérique, notre modèle d'affaires devrait être sérieusement révisé. Nous devrons * focusser + davantage sur les grands centres urbains et aurons de la difficulté à desservir les petites communautés rurales comme nous le faisons actuellement.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13074 De plus, il serait difficile pour nous de mettre à niveau les équipements de localisation desservant ces régions rurales. Notre offre de services dans les deux langues officielles, aux deux communautés linguistiques du Canada serait aussi mise en péril.
Il faut noter, de façon importante, que près de soixante‑dix câblodistributeurs du Québec, y incluant Vidéotron, sont intervenus dans cette instance, afin de vous dire qu'un changement dans le statut de distribution de nos services aurait un impact sur l'offre de nos services.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13075 Les petits câblodistributeurs vous ont dit de façon un‑équivoque (ph.) que l'approbation de cette application assurerait que ces petits "cablos" seraient traités d'égal à égal avec les grands systèmes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13076 MR. MORRISSETTE: If our application is denied, the only people enriched will be major BDU's operating in Anglophone markets. Everyone else will lose. Requiring BDU's to distribute the weather network and Metro Media as part of the digital basic service, serves the public interest and furthers the objectives of the Broadcasting Act.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13077 It is the only way the Commission can ensure that all Canadians, whether they live in rural areas, or urban communities, whether they have modest incomes, and whether they are francophone or Anglophone, continue to have access to weather, public safety, and environmental programming that is essential to their personal safety.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13078 Our services will only remain affordable and accessible to all Canadians if our application is approved. Thank you. I will be pleased to answer any questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13079 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Vice‑Chairman Arpin.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13080 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Mr. Morrissette, or whoever, are you carried on basic, on Express View and Star Choice, or ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13081 MR. MORRISSETTE: Yes, we are.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13082 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13083 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Morrissette.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13084 MR. MORRISSETTE: I could qualify that. During the term of our current agreement, we are carried on basic.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13085 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Okay, I understand the qualification as well as on the other side. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13086 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much for your comments this morning. We don't have any further questions. Madame Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13087 THE SECRETARY: CANAL Corporation pour l'avancement de nouvelles applications des langages and TV5 Québec Canada have informed us that they will not be appearing in Phase III. I would now ask Canadian Broadcasting Corporation to respond to all the interventions that were filed to their applications. Please introduce yourself. Thank you.
REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
LISTNUM 1 \l 13088 MR. TREMBLAY: Good morning, Madame Chair, Vice‑Chairs, Commissioners, and CRTC staff. My name is Michel Tremblay, and I am CBC Canada's Vice‑President, Strategy and Business Development. With me today are Sylvain Lafrance, vice‑président principal des services français and Richard Stursberg, Executive Vice‑President, English Television. A la droite de Sylvain Lafrance, Alain Saulnier, directeur général de l'information des services français. On Richard's left, is Tony Buman, Editor‑in‑Chief, CBC News.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13089 Behind us are Robert Nadeau, Marilyn Goodwin, Manager, Market Research, and Heaton Dyer, Newsworld Program Director.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13090 Our remarks are in response to interventions received both in support and opposition to the applications by Newsworld and RVI for mandatory carriage on digital basic as contemplated in the CRTC's digital migration framework.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13091 M. TREMBLAY: Tout d'abord, nous souhaitons remercier sincèrement les quelques 200 Canadiens et associations qui ont manifesté avec force leur appui à l'égard de ces demandes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13092 Les intervenants se sont exprimés sur le rôle essentiel que joue Newsworld et le RDI, en proposant une perspective canadienne sur les événements internationaux, en diffusant les nouvelles de toutes les régions du pays, en fournissant un lien vital pour les francophones qui vivent à l'extérieur du Québec et en facilitant et en lançant un dialogue national sur les questions de culture, de société d'économie et de politique qui nous définissent et façonnent notre pays.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13093 Ils ont aussi affirmé que Newsworld et le RDI revêtent un caractère exceptionnel à cet égard et que leur mandat de service public les distingue de tous les autres services dans le système canadien de radiodiffusion. Selon eux, ces services sont d'une importance telle qu'ils doivent être accessibles au plus grand nombre de Canadiens possible.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13094 Aucun consommateur canadien ne s'est opposé à nos demandes. Ce degré d'appui est conforme au résultat du sondage que nous avons produit avec nos demandes, et qui indique que 93 pour‑cent des abonnés croient que Newsworld et RDI devraient être toujours être offerts sur le service de base.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13095 M. LAFRANCE: Les distributeurs ont affirmé collectivement qu'aucun des services canadiens visés par cette demande, y compris RDI et Newsworld n'a réussi a démontrer son importance exceptionnelle. Nous voulons nous opposer avec vigueur à cette position étonnante.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13096 Pour plusieurs raisons le RDI est un service essentiel qui doit être offert à la population sur le service de base des distributeurs. Depuis le début de mon mandat, je conçois et j'explique que le rôle fondamental d'un service public de radiodiffusion est d'améliorer la qualité de la vie démocratique et culturelle de nos concitoyens.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13097 Aujourd'hui plus que jamais, j'ai l'occasion de parler concrètement de ce concept grâce au RDI qui en est un parfait exemple. Le réseau de l'information de Radio‑Canada, en raison de son important réseau journalistique à travers le Canada et dans le monde, est le seul réseau de nouvelles francophones canadien qui, dans sa couverture des événements survenant au Canada et dans le monde entier, fouille en profondeur, expose des répercussions et offre une mise en contexte pertinente.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13098 La programmation du RDI est canadienne dans une proportion de plus de 90 pour‑cent. Ses journalistes apportent un point de vue typiquement canadien à tous les événements, qu'ils proviennent des quatre coins du pays ou du reste de la planète.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13099 Le RDI est disponible, à l'heure actuelle, à plus de dix millions d'abonnés au Canada. En fournissant des services d'information en continu accessibles en tout temps, partout au Canada sur le service de base des distributeurs, le RDI demeure un outil important de cohésion sociale.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13100 Près de un Canadien francophone sur deux accorde chaque semaine sa confiance au RDI pour se renseigner sur ce qui se passe dans le monde, dans le pays et dans sa région.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13101 Le RDI revêt clairement une importance exceptionnelle dans l'atteinte de plusieurs objectifs clés de la loi sur la radiodiffusion. Par exemple, fournir de l'information et de l'analyse concernant le Canada et l'étranger, considéré d'un point de vue canadien, servir à sauvegarder, enrichir et renforcer la structure culturelle, politique, sociale et économique du Canada, refléter la dualité linguistique de la société canadienne.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13102 Le réseau de l'information de Radio‑Canada représente un lien vital entre les communautés francophones dispersées partout sur le territoire canadien. RDI est le seul à pouvoir remplir ce rôle.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13103 Pour la plupart d'entre elles, c'est un instrument précieux de promotion de la langue française et des valeurs culturelles et sociales du Canada. C'est le seul réseau d'information en continu qui assure une présence et un reflet des préoccupations des francophones de toutes les régions du pays.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13104 Parmi les nombreuses interventions favorables des associations de francophones, je vous souligne, par exemple, celle de la Fédération des communautés francophones et acadiennes, un organisme national qui regroupe vingt et une associations provinciales et territoriales. Je la cite:
" RDI représente une source de nouvelles essentielle pour les francophones vivant en milieu minoritaire. C'est pourquoi les communautés francophones et acadiennes se sont d'ailleurs mobilisées, il y a une décennie, pour assurer que la majorité des câblodistributeurs offre RCI au service de base. Les francophones du pays reçoivent RCI à la base... RDI à la base (pardon!) depuis dix ans. C'est pour eux un service essentiel."
(Fin de la citation)
LISTNUM 1 \l 13105 MR. STURSBERG: Newsworld also makes an exceptional contribution. It delivers unparalleled international coverage with the support of 14 bureaus around the world. The most extensive international coverage of any Canadian television news service, giving us a window on the world through Canadian eyes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13106 As a universally available service, Newsworld is overwhelmingly the destination of choice for English Canadians in times of national crises, whether it is the shootings at Dawson College, the murder of the RCMP officers at Mayerthorpe, or the SARS crisis. It provides unmatched, live event coverage with 330 hours each year on average.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13107 It has coverage in every region of the country. Connecting Canadians to each other in the news as it happens. We bring the nation to the nation, through election coverage. We cover every provincial and federal election in depth, and from beginning to end.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13108 There is extensive collaboration between Newsworld and RDI on news gathering, reporting, and documentary making, ensuring English Canadians understand the point of view and perspective of French Canada and vise versa.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13109 The BDU's have presented no evidence or analysis to challenge the case put forward by Newsworld and RDI that they make an exceptionally important contribution. They simply do not address the merits of our applications. Canadians, however, believe that these services make an exceptional contribution and strongly support the idea that they should continue to be universally available to as many Canadians as possible.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13110 The BDU's in general and Rogers specifically, claim that mandatory carriage is unnecessary. Rogers claims that we are over estimating the impact because digital migration will not occur that quickly. The BDU's may choose not to move services off basic, and that if services are moved off basic, any loss of subscriber revenue could quote:
"be largely offset by increases to subscriber rates"
LISTNUM 1 \l 13111 If any of that were true, we would not be here before you today. We see the potential impact of digital migration on Newsworld and RDI as very real. The migration framework could well jeopardize the availability of these services and their capacity to continue to provide an essential service to Canadians.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13112 The BDU's have also said that mandatory carriage is inappropriate. We could not disagree more. The broadcasting system in Canada is undergoing fundamental change. All of the major news assets in this country are now held by three, and potentially only two private sector players.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13113 Consolidation creates synergies. However, it also leads to a potential radical reduction in diversity of voice, and uniformity of editorial perspective.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13114 Newsworld and RDI provide Canadians with an important alternative source of news and a distinct editorial perspective. In this context, mandatory distribution is absolutely vital. To quote from the Senate Committee's report last year on media concentration:
"In a world of media concentration and cross‑media ownership, the importance of the CBC as an alternate source of news and information programming is greater than ever."
LISTNUM 1 \l 13115 M. TREMBLAY: En conclusion, nous sommes convaincus que nos demandes prouvent que les services qu'offrent RDI et Newsworld sont d'une importance exceptionnelle dans l'accomplissement des objectifs clés de la loi.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13116 Nous avons aussi démontré qu'il est absolument nécessaire que le RDI et Newsworld restent accessibles sur les services de base des distributeurs partout au Canada pour pouvoir maintenir leur contribution unique et essentielle. Les distributeurs n'ont présenté aucune preuve qui conteste ces aspects essentiels de nos demandes et celles‑ci reçoivent un appui unanime des citoyens qui sont intervenus.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13117 Merci de votre attention, nous nous ferons un plaisir de répondre à vos questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13118 THE CHAIRPERSON: Vice‑Chairman Arpin.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13119 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Thank you, Ms. Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13120 Ma question est la même que j'ai posée à Météomédia. Est‑ce que Express Vu et Star Choice distribuent Newsworld et RDI à la base présentement?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13121 M. TREMBLAY: Oui.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13122 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Et c'est selon des ententes contractuelles? C'est... parce que c'est historique, effectivement...
LISTNUM 1 \l 13123 M. TREMBLAY: Des ententes historiques, effectivement qui ont été mises en place.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13124 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Parce que ce n'est pas la réglementation qui fait que vous êtes présentement à la base sur Star Choice et sur Express Vu?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13125 M. TREMBLAY: Pour l'instant, oui.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13126 CONSEILLER ARPIN: D'accord. Merci.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13127 Merci madame.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13128 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Cram.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13129 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank you. I note that you are proposing that the wholesale rate would be the same. And I am going to show how long I've been around, but my memory is the increase granted both Newsworld and RDI included money for the purchase of some capital. And they were the mobile trucks. So why would that portion of the increase continue?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13130 MR. BURMAN: Our plan ‑‑ I was actually as you may recall, I was at that ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13131 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yeah, it was a wonderful time, whenever years ago ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13132 MR. BURMAN: A memorable moment in our lives.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13133 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13134 MR. BURMAN: I mean, I think our intention then was to use the increase to direct, to increase our ability to cover live coverage, to cover live events. And we've done that, we've done than in a variety of ways. Including the purchase of trucks, but a lot of our capital has been directed into other technologies which we really didn't anticipate then.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13135 I mean, I think our kind of financial goal then ‑‑ and I think we've maintained it, was to use the rate increase, keep it as such, and as the ‑‑ as our live coverage expands over the years, and it has, far more than we anticipated ‑‑ six or seven years ago, that we would use that money to provide that coverage.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13136 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank you. Thank you Madame Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13137 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Tremblay, Mr. Stursberg, and your colleagues, thank you very much for your comments this morning. Madame Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13138 THE SECRETARY: This completes the considerations of items 1 to 12 on the agenda.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13139 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Legal counsel.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13140 MS DIONNE: Mr. Schaffer, the applicant for Metis Mitchell television network, mentioned in his reply comments that they filed an application for a category one license. I would like to clarify for the record that this application will not be considered as part of this proceeding. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13141 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Madame Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13142 THE SECRETARY: We will now proceed with item 13 on the agenda, which is an application by JOCO Communications Inc., for a license to operate an English language FM commercial radio programming undertaking in Sudbury.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13143 THE CHAIRPERSON: My apologies. The Commission is going to take a 15 minute break at this point, and allow you to collect your thoughts in between proceed ‑‑ in between applications. We will resume at 10:35. Thank you.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 10:21 a.m.
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 10:40 a.m.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13144 THE CHAIRPERSON: Order please. Madame Secretary. You can call the next applicant please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13145 THE SECRETARY: We will now proceed with item 13 on the agenda, which is an application by JOCO Communications Inc. for a license to operate an English‑language FM commercial radio programming undertaking in Sudbury.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13146 The new station would operate on frequency 94.5 Mhz, Channel 233A, with an effective radiated power of 1,350 watts, non‑directional antenna, antenna height of 168.3 metres.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13147 Appearing for the applicant is Mr. Joe Cormier, who will introduce his colleagues. You will then have 20 minutes for your presentation. Thank you.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
LISTNUM 1 \l 13148 MR. CORMIER: Hi, my name is Joseph Cormier, the President of JOCO Communications Inc. and with me is my wife Monique Audette. Before I start my presentation, I would like to, Madame Chair, Vice‑Chair and the Commissioner, to note a deficiency in response to a question you made in the letter dated Tuesday, March 20th, regarding CCD contributions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13149 Okay, we add in here that the question was: please confirm your understanding that under the new policy, no less than 20% of this annual over and above CCD contribution will be allocated to factor or music action. What percentage of your annual over and above the CCD commitment do you wish to allocate to either factor or music action, and what dollars amount would this be.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13150 It's not a big mistake, it's just that JOCO Communication confirms the understanding and we wish to allocate ‑‑ we had put 25% ‑‑ but it should be written 20%. It's just a typo, okay, so I don't know if you want me to read all the rest of it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13151 THE CHAIRPERSON: That's fine, that correction is ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13152 MR. CORMIER: Okay, thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13153 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13154 MR. CORMIER: Thanks. Okay, JOCO Communication will be a vital asset to the City of Greater Sudbury, because we are a locally owned and operated.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13155 Our objectives will be to operate a de‑centralized business structure, where the station is locally owned and operated to serve the city of Greater Sudbury without the interference of a hierarchy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13156 The decision making process is made locally, fast and efficiently. On the basis of greater local autonomy, we will provide the community with professionalized higher quality radio. We're gonna know the needs of the people, because we are locally owned and operated. We can answer questions right away when questions are asked, without going higher.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13157 We will have the power to develop local community news, information, and interest. We will also, for example, inform people about school boards and town council meetings, school cancellation, city history. We're getting a historian to talk about the city. We do the same thing in our little operation in Sturgeon Falls. It works very well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13158 We'll feature the best in citizen critics, giving reviews of local arts and entertainment. It was a need that people were talking to us about in Sudbury. So we're going to offer that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13159 One viable rule for radio is reaching out to people during a disaster. We'll reach out to the community, and when in crisis, our priority is to broadcast up to the minute updates in emergency situations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13160 We will also act like a communications headquarters for local police, fire departments, city officials. An example, when we had the power outage, we had the CEO of Sturgeon Falls to come in and do the live updates from the source itself, without us taking the information. We got him right on the radio to tell the people of Sturgeon Falls what was going in. It works pretty good.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13161 We are heavily invested in operating and marketing helping advertisers build their business of course. We maintain a strong focus on connecting with the community it serves, through creating partnerships with local groups, community leaders, charities, special causes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13162 For example, the telethon. We aired that in Sturgeon Falls. By far the biggest local Canadian artist show I think is the local telethon, cause it's all local people. So we give some good Canadian content.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13163 Also the dragon boat races, relay for life. We always participate in that. It's a fun event too. So broadcasting from a local level is what will make JOCO Communications great and unique.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13164 Sudbury radio history. In the past, Sudbury had an oldies radio station, which is what we're applying for. It is apparent it was not feasible for other operators to keep it running as such, due to high cost, resulting in a flip format, causing disappoint among listeners, advertisers, and other radio stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13165 Our company's projections are attainable for this type of music format, due to realistic business plan, geared to this demographic. Maybe I'll explain that a little bit more. It's what we get from people from Sudbury. We live there, we know what the people want, what the people will miss, and this is a big concern, this format being flipped, without them knowing about it. And also formats being applied for and they're not playing that music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13166 I'm not putting nothing against no one here, it's just something that was told to us. We're bringing the message from Sudbury to the CRTC.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13167 Format stability. When radio stations change their musical format, for whatever reason, the citizens are left feeling ‑‑ feeling of importance, which has been demonstrated in several interventions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13168 Music is personal, and every generation has their favourite song. Being a DJ for 25 years, I know how people get when they can't hear their song. Music is part of everyday life, and people can relate to lyrics, which makes it very important to hear their favourite song.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13169 And I'm sure everyone here went to a wedding and said you know, can I hear this song. If they can't hear it, they're disappointed. So imagine having a format flipped, how the people must feel.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13170 Sudbury will have their oldies radio station back. And we will never change the format. Reasons why ‑‑ we will be operating on a realistic budget. We have high standards of ethics, and will commit to our musical format. We respect the importance of music to the older generation would compromise as over 60,000 in the age group of 45 and over.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13171 It is not perceived well with the music industry when a musical format is changed, especially if you're playing a kind of music, and you flip it and ‑‑ you know ‑‑ you're paying royalties on that, so these people are not getting their royalties no more, so it's not perceived very well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13172 It would take credibility away from our company. And we respect the Broadcast Act, and the CRTC.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13173 Another reason why local ownership rules. Living in the community you serve, we give people the ability, the voice, to voice their opinion and whether it's good or bad to comment. It is vital for the long run that all comments be seriously taken and looked at at every angle, before making any decision.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13174 Our market study is conservative and realistic. Conducting a market study back in August of 2005, we proved that indeed Sudbury had a market for an oldies radio station. We believe that our projections are conservative and realistic, and will ensure success and longevity of this station. We are committed to providing a unique oldies format for the older citizens of Sudbury for years to come.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13175 I've put here like about costs and that. If you can't run a station cause it costs too much, or you need format, we have a solution to that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13176 The benefits of lower cost of operation. With our power being 1,350 watts, the lowest power transmitter of all applications, we will keep our costs of broadcasting low and affordable. We will be consuming less energy, lowering costs of broadcasting to ensure format stability. And also, it's very environmentally ‑‑ it's more environmentally friendly, using less hydro.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13177 Some bigger transmitters consume up to 35 times more power than ours. The power we're applying for ‑‑ if you look at our engineering brief ‑‑ it'll cover the area very well. There won't be any problem, there won't be any lack of signal anywhere. We've already proved that. And we believe that less cost, plus energy efficiency, equals a successful business.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13178 Costs being a major factor in operating a successful business. We believe this is a great way to reduce costs without losing quality of broadcasting.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13179 Now we're going into diversity. The strength of JOCO Communications is in our people. We are committed to recruiting and retaining diverse talent by creating an environment that is integrated diversity and inclusions of all aspects of our operation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13180 We are an equal opportunity employer, where all will be encouraged to apply. We will commit to reflect the cultural diversity of Canada in our programming and employment practices, especially with respect to news, music, and promotion of Canadian artists. And emerging artists, and local artists, of course.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13181 Our strength at JOCO Communications is the diversity of our people, thoughts, and ideas, all working together to meet and exceed the expectations of our listeners, and our clients.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13182 Now they had asked me a question about internet streaming and podcasting. Local radio broadcasting is a world that has been put on the back burner with the onset of internet networking. We are choosing not to broadcast via the internet. Our focus is the aging population in the community of greater Sudbury, consisting of the pioneers of our great city.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13183 We did our survey on older people, to see if they were interested in the internet, and there was no interest whatsoever. There was some of the younger generation that do tune into the internet, but the older people, it's not a major concern.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13184 This radio station will allow our senior listener an opportunity to tune into a radio station which is not currently available to them at the present time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13185 Maybe they could throw away their vinyls and cassettes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13186 Okay, Canadian content. JOCO Communications is pleased to provide local voices delivering important information at a community level. Too often news of our friends and neighbours are passed over, and we miss hearing about their achievements, difficulties, and success. JOCO Communication has always believed that Canada's strength is found in its' people. By keeping in touch with one another, we promote our Canadian heritage.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13187 We will air the Canadian National Anthem at 7:00 a.m., seven days a week, 365 days a year. Like we've been doing in Sturgeon Falls since the inception of JOCO Radio. And it's very well ‑‑ people love it. They get up in the morning, they listen to the Canadian Anthem. Some say they salute to it, and I mean it's something that people kind of forgot about. You know, you gotta remind them, and let's put it on every day, and it is a Canadian radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13188 We have committed to contribution to the new Canadian Development, which we have in our application, over and above to our budget. Not only do we commit to playing 40% Canadian content, JOCO Communication can attest to playing 100% of Canadian content on Canada Day. So Canada Day is Canada, you know, we got the call signs, the fireworks, and I don't want to say too much information in case people pick it up here, but we do the fireworks, and the call signs, and it's all Canadian music that day. It's fun, and it's great.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13189 We will also commit to air the Christmas telethon live, which we've been doing in Sturgeon Falls for the last four years. People that can't tune into the TV, they go in their car, or the people from out of town, they could tune into the radio for the telethon. Which is by far the largest showcase of emerging local Canadian artists from Sudbury and the surrounding areas.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13190 Over and above our CCD commitments, we will donate to local charities as part of everyday operation. We don't wanna promise too much in case we can't fill it, so as part of an everyday commitment, which we've did in our other stations, we always gave a lot more, we'll do that as an everyday operation. And if the Commission wants that in writing, we'll do that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13191 Local and emerging Canadian artists. Sudbury's local musicians will benefit through our show called "Homegrown". The Canadian show on our ‑‑ we called it the Canadian show on our application ‑‑ but it's actually called "Homegrown". This local music show features the best in emerging local talent, from Sturgeon Falls in northern Ontario. For over four years, JOCO Communication has submerged itself in the local music scene, and it's on the cutting edge of promoting local artists who are making waves in the community. So we take these artists, we bring them in the studio, you know, we record call signs for them, record their song ‑‑ I mean, they have their songs recorded. So we put a call sign in front of their song, and every time their song goes on, there's a call sign that goes up in front of it. And you know what, the people are so excited about that, it's crazy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13192 So "Homegrown" is aired every Sunday night at 7:00 p.m. in Sturgeon Falls. Bands featured on the show receive exposure to thousands of listeners. From the beginning, "Homegrown" has been on the cutting edge of exposing bands such as High Holy Days. We've had them to open up to our grand opening of JOCO Radio and these guys ‑‑ since then, they've had two music videos, airing on Much Music, and they're from Sturgeon Falls.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13193 And they also opened for the biggest Canadian act, called Nickelback ‑‑ they've opened for them in Sudbury ‑‑ which they were exposed in front of 6,000 people. And these guys, they always come into the station. You know, they come in and hang out and they tell us how much they appreciate stuff like that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13194 Rock Wilder, from Garden Village ‑‑ its' a little village close to Sturgeon Falls ‑‑ they're from there, we air them. We also had them on our grand opening. We also include Sudbury bands. Roger West and the Bounty Hunters. Sab's from North Bay. I'm sure a lot of people know him.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13195 Claude Braudt from Sturgeon Falls. Pierre Gingras from Verner Yvon Serre, former resident of Sturgeon Falls, now resides in Japan. We got his website on our website to promote his concerts and stuff. La Jeunesse Girard, former residents of Sturgeon Falls, now live in Ottawa. They come down lots. We play their music on Sunday night. Also Angele Leblanc, which is a local artist. We've received a lot of e‑mails thanking us for promoting local artists. But I'll get Monique to read one that we just, just got from this girl. Monique.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13196 MS AUDETTE: From Nancy Doubet.
Monday, March 19th, 2007.
Subject: Local artist
Angele Leblanc. Hi guys. I'm Angele Leblanc's mother, Nancy, and I want to thank you sincerely for playing Angele's songs on the local artist spots you have. She was so happy and excited to hear herself on the radio. It gave her a big boost to keep going. As she is only eleven, she is achieving a great deal. Even recording her very own song, with the help of European manager and recording studio out in Belgium. She will be registered with SOCAN as well, coming in about a month or less. I also wanted to know if she could have her website featured on your website page. She wants to also put a link on her page to your web page as well to thank you playing her songs, if that's okay.
If so, here is her web page."
LISTNUM 1 \l 13197 They indicate the web page.
"Please let us know at this e‑mail. We thank you sincerely and enjoy your station. You have a great selection of songs. Keep up the good work. On behalf of Angele and myself, we thank you."
LISTNUM 1 \l 13198 Now because this was written on March 9th, I haven't had an opportunity to respond. And we will do so, and we will place her website on our website, as requested.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13199 MR. CORMIER: Thank you. These are only a few of our local artists featured on Home Grown. We have probably over 150 fro the area, musicians that were never featured before and now they're actually featured. So people actually listen to their music. Pierre Gingras came in the station one day, he says, hey, Joco, he calls me Joco, and gave me a big hug, and he showed me ‑‑ he took a photocopy of a SOCAN cheque. That guy never received a cheque in his life, he's 52 years old. He was so happy, he says it's the best gift I ever had. It's just the thought, he told me you know, he says, the system works, you know.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13200 It's nice, you played our songs, we're registered through SOCAN, I got a cheque here, so I'm bringing you a photocopy. So we got it up by the station. If you want a copy, we'll send on to CRTC also.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13201 Like I said, in Sturgeon Falls ‑‑ that's what goes on in Sturgeon Falls. I'm just trying to create something here to show you how we promote local and emerging artists, which is very important.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13202 In Sturgeon Falls, Home Grown is a show that welcomes all local artists, regardless of race and culture. So everybody's welcome here.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13203 JOCO Communication will air a new music show in Sudbury also called Home Grown. This show will feature special interviews, CD's, and songs by local bands. JOCO Communication will create a forum for local unsigned band that is really unique in a market of our size, while exposing our audience to local talent. In addition to Home Grown, we are committed to promoting new, local emerging artists through local concerts, events, contests and festivals, and cash donations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13204 Home Grown in Sudbury market will be featured two hours a week on Wednesday nights, due to the bigger population. And also, on 80% of our musical format, a minimum of 10% will feature emerging local and Canadian artists, which will be aired during higher listenership, rather than late at night and early in the morning.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13205 Here's an example of how we're gonna do this. Every ten songs played, one song will feature a Canadian and emerging artist, or local artist. We're not gonna compete with other stations for the category of the song. But it's gonna be new music that complements the format. And we've checked with the older generation ‑‑ do you mind if we put one local or emerging, brand new artist on the format at every ten songs ‑‑ they said not at all, and we won't tune it out. So I believe that will work really good.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13206 To conclude the presentation, we think JOCO Communications should be awarded this broadcast license for the following reason:
LISTNUM 1 \l 13207 We are the first company to submit an application of a radio station in the city of Greater Sudbury back in October, 2005. We are locally owned and operated, making our main focus towards promoting local values and cultures which meet the needs and interests of the citizens of the greater city of Sudbury. We have a proven track record of our commitment promoting musicians and composers from the local community. We are offering the unique listening format with realistic projections, and instead of competing, we will increase diversity in the Sudbury radio market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13208 We will provide live coverage on community events, up to the minute information in time of regional and national crises.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13209 We have committed to airing a minimum of 40% Canadian content. We have committed to airing emerging artists during peak hours of listenership.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13210 We have committed to creating a more energy efficient environment by transmitting at a lower power, which in turn is financially and environmentally friendly.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13211 As a bonus of course, being locally owned and operated, our mandate is to create a model radio station in Sudbury where if you need to address any concerns, I the owner, will be accessible. Thank you. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13212 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Cormier, Ms Audette, thank you very much, good morning, and welcome. I was kind of glad, Mr. Cormier, when you were talking about how the older generation doesn't want to throw away their vinyl or cassettes, that you didn't mention 8 tracks ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13213 THE CHAIRPERSON: Cause it would remind me of how many times I had to buy my favourite music and how long I've been around, so thanks for that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13214 MR. CORMIER: Oh, I'm there too.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13215 THE CHAIRPERSON: I want to talk first about your format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13216 MR. CORMIER: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13217 THE CHAIRPERSON: Your proposed format. I heard what you said in your opening statement about a station that had flipped and therefore the market misses the oldies format. But through your assessment of the market, you say the format is lacking, and in response to deficiency questions in a letter dated January 5th, you said:
"We were able to prove there was indeed a market for a new oldies radio station in the Sudbury area last November when we applied for our broadcast license, which triggered the CRTC to launch a call for applications on July 15th."
LISTNUM 1 \l 13218 What did you mean by that? Why do you think that because it triggered a call, it shows that there is a lack of this format in the Sudbury market?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13219 MR. CORMIER: Well, Madame Commissioner, I just figured that if they ‑‑ cause they've asked me ‑‑ they said do you still wanna go on with this license ‑‑ I said of course I do. So you're gonna have to submit it, cause we're gonna call for other competing applicants to apply for a radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13220 THE CHAIRPERSON: So you saw it as ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13221 MR. CORMIER: So I figured ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13222 THE CHAIRPERSON: The possibility of competition for the format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13223 MR. CORMIER: Yeah, yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13224 THE CHAIRPERSON: As opposed to competition for the frequency?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13225 MR. CORMIER: Yeah, yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13226 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, that's good.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13227 MR. CORMIER: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13228 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Do you consider your proposal to be competitive with other applications in these proceedings? Wrightsell for example has applied for an older adult contemporary format. Halliburton ‑ new easy listening, including adult standards, soft adult contemporary, pop instrumentals, light classical, jazz, and folk and roots music. Do you consider your application to be competitive with those?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13229 MR. CORMIER: Oh, yes, I do. And especially for the costs of operation. Like in the past, if a company ‑‑ and I'm not gonna name anybody ‑‑ couldn't do it, and they had to quit the format, and there is excuse is cause we can't afford to run that format ‑‑ well, guess what, you gotta go to lower power, and you gotta cut costs down to be able to run that format. More realistic.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13230 I know we're not the big ‑‑ how can I say that ‑‑ we're not sophisticated I guess you could say, like the other stations. We're a more small town station, okay. And what we're gonna run here ‑‑ we're gonna make it on a budget that will allow that format to run forever. You know, we're not gonna change it around.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13231 Cause if you'd see the people's reaction when a format is changed, you would not believe it. I live in Sudbury, and I've experienced it, twice now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13232 THE CHAIRPERSON: So your argument is that because you will be able to keep your costs down‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13233 MR. CORMIER: Yes, exactly.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13234 THE CHAIRPERSON: The format is more sustainable, long term, than perhaps another applicant who may have to switch formats because their costs are higher than yours, and may have to switch to a more popular format, or a format that ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13235 MR. CORMIER: Exactly. You got that right on the money, thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13236 THE CHAIRPERSON: It's why I get to sit up here.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13237 THE CHAIRPERSON: You proposed to devote 5% of your overall music to sub‑category 3, which is of course, jazz and blues. Now your application was in fact submitted prior to the release of the new commercial radio policy, but are you aware that the new commercial radio policy requires that broadcasters devote at least 20% of their overall music to sub‑category 34, that is jazz and blues.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13238 MR. CORMIER: Okay, we could fix that for you and re‑submit, you know, if that's the only problem here. We got no problem, cause the thing is, I wanna mix it in the regular format as well with blues and jazz. Cause there's a lot of these Canadian artists, and you know, I've seen that in a lot of things, where people say ‑‑ well, you know, if we put too much emerging artists, we're gonna lose our audience. That's not true. Cause you know what, there's commercial ‑‑ there's radio stations playing commercials that are a lot longer than a song, and people never tune it out. I've heard commercials on some stations where they got stop sets of six minutes, and a song is only three minutes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13239 So I'd rather hear a song from a brand new artist for three minutes, than listen to commercials for six minutes. So I don't believe that if you play emerging artists, that the people are gonna tune out. It's not true, and there's a lot of emerging artists out there. Especially in the blues and jazz that I've never been exposed to a market like Sudbury.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13240 THE CHAIRPERSON: Right, but I ‑‑ well I understand ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13241 MR. CORMIER: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13242 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ that you can play emerging artists within the category of jazz and blues.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13243 MR. CORMIER: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13244 THE CHAIRPERSON: The question is, is your format viable if we are to impose a condition of license that says 20% of your music overall must be comprised of jazz and blues?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13245 MR. CORMIER: It is viable.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13246 THE CHAIRPERSON: And would you, are you prepared to accept that as a condition of license?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13247 MR. CORMIER: Yes, I am.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13248 THE CHAIRPERSON: Now because we've made this change, and originally you had said 5% of your music overall would be jazz and blues, we've now increased it to 20%, we would have to now adjust the other categories, obviously. And I don't know if you are prepared to do this now, but perhaps if you'd like to think about this, and do some homework ‑‑ because originally you said pop, rock and dance, 32%, easy listening, 32%, folk and folk oriented, 9%. So we would have to adjust those percentages.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13249 MR. CORMIER: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13250 THE CHAIRPERSON: And perhaps, I ‑‑ I don't know, are you prepared to do that now, or would you like to think about that and perhaps file at a later time with the Commission. I'll let legal ‑‑ tell you when it is that you would file that information.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13251 MR. CORMIER: Well, what is better for the Commission at this point. Like, do you want us to do that ‑‑ like ‑‑ you know, within a day, or is that how you're talking, or ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13252 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yeah, we would probably look for it by the end of the day. Legal counsel?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13253 MS DIONNE: Yes, or at the reply stage.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13254 MR. CORMIER: Okay, I'll have it for the reply stage for tomorrow, thanks.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13255 MS DIONNE: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13256 THE CHAIRPERSON: You've agreed in your application, and you've repeated it today, to accept as a condition of license to broadcast a minimum of 40% Canadian content on this service. Would that apply to the broadcast week and Monday to Friday from 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., the regulatory periods?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13257 MR. CORMIER: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13258 THE CHAIRPERSON: So you'll accept that as a condition ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13259 MR. CORMIER: Yes, definitely.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13260 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. In terms of emerging artists, thank you for more detail in your presentation this morning. But in the ‑‑ in response to deficiencies in a letter dated January 5th, you say that you will be playing emerging artists from Category 3 only, Category 3 music only. So what factors did you take into consideration in making that decision?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13261 MR. CORMIER: Okay, the factor that I took is cause I don't wanna ‑‑ like, the other stations ‑‑ there's a whole bunch of stations in Sudbury, and if they followed the new rules, they're gonna have to play emerging artists and it's all in Category 2, so they're gonna be exposed to the ‑‑ quite a bit of people there. The thing is about Category 2 music ‑‑ I wanted to match the format, you know. It's hard to ‑‑ let's use for example, you're listening to Elvis Presley, or you, know, Sha Na Na, or whatever song's playing, and then Nickel Back comes on with a really heavy song, it doesn't really mix with that format. But we could probably go with a Category 2 easy listening music for emerging artists if we have to go with Category 2.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13262 So I had figured a Category 3 is music that's not being exposed there already, so we wanted to give more exposure to that. Like the Sons of Maxwell from Timmins ‑‑ nobody's ever heard of these guys ‑‑ and they're folk, you know, and they got really good music. And there's so much of it, like there's so many artists like that from Alberta, Nova Scotia. Also blues singers in Toronto, you know. They play in these little bars, but these guys are so good. Like nobody's ever been in the expos to those emerging artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13263 So we figured a Category 3 would probably be the way to go. But I'll note that on our Home Grown show we'll feature all local emerging artists. In any category, it's gonna be a local show, and the people that I was speaking to ‑‑ the older generation ‑‑ they just love to hear that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13264 THE CHAIRPERSON: And so, would it be 10% of your Category 3 music would be devoted to emerging artists, or 10% of your music programming overall?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13265 MR. CORMIER: The music, the format would be 10%. Probably more than that, but a minimum of 10% featuring local emerging artists. Now from Category 2 or 3 it's gonna be hard to define, cause the local musicians, when they just start, they're not really categorized yet so, it's hard to define if they're ‑‑ you know what I mean ‑‑ they could be Category 2, Category 3, we're not sure until they get signed up with SOCAN. And we help them out to do that too. But I mean before they're signed up, it's pretty hard for them to get the exposure. It's pretty hard for them to get that status of which category it is. So I'm not sure how to answer your question.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13266 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, we're looking for an indication as to what you would propose as a commitment to exposure of emerging artists as a percentage of your music program.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13267 MR. CORMIER: Oh, it's a ten per cent overall.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13268 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, and this is for my own education.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13269 MR. CORMIER: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13270 THE CHAIRPERSON: In your presentation this morning, when you talked about the local artists, that you recorded their CD, and you put a call sign. What does that mean?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13271 MR. CORMIER: Do you know what I do ‑‑ it's a call ‑‑ well, it's a call sign ‑‑ it's an I.D. for their song. What they do for example, I'll say it in French here ‑‑ Si, à Claude Proulx... vous êtes à l'écoute de la station locale JOCO Radio, puis... this is our song ‑ It's... You know, Pierre Gingras... Hey! This is High Holy Days and you're tuned into JOCO Radio, here's our brand new song, River Sticks, on her brand new album.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13272 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13273 MR. CORMIEER: You know, bang, and then their song starts ‑‑ so this way here if we don't have guys ‑‑ like we have people in the daytime, but at night time, you know, sometimes we run voice tracks. Like a lot of other operators do. So we have a call sign. So if there's nobody to introduce their song, you know what, they're still gonna be introduced.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13274 THE CHAIRPERSON: So you use it as a means by which to not only identify the artist, but identify the fact that JOCO Communications has supported them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13275 MR. CORMIER: Yeah, exactly, and the artists really like that, because you know if somebody in town is driving around, they say hey, I just heard a song by High Holy Days last night at 1:00 in the morning, a really heavy tune, but it was good, you know. Cause that's what we do, yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13276 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. I'd like to now move to your spoken word programming and as it's been proposed in your application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13277 MR. CORMIER: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13278 THE CHAIRPERSON: You are proposing a total of 19 hours of spoken word.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13279 MR. CORMIER: Yes, I am.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13280 THE CHAIRPERSON: All of which will be locally produced, and the majority is comprised of news, and surveillance as well as a number of community minded programs that have been detailed in your application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13281 But when I look at your staffing levels, you include four on‑air staff, four sales people, one station manager, and one technician.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13282 MR. CORMIER: M'hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13283 THE CHAIRPERSON: Can you take us through how the four on‑air personnel would produce this amount of spoken word programming? In other words, it's a substantial commitment to spoken word, with four on‑air staff. What are their functions, and how are they going to achieve this level of spoken word programming?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13284 MR. CORMIER: Okay, good question. We're gonna ‑‑ well, they're gonna work on four shifts. We usually just have one person on the air, compared to having two of them at a time. So that there, you know, if you get two people on air to do your morning show, and your day show and stuff, it uses twice the amount of staff. So like I say, we're trying to cut costs to see how this station's gonna go, and we'll probably include more staff than that. This is just a projection of what we're gonna do.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13285 And to get our local content, well, the person's gonna want air, and they're gonna have to work, you know. They're gonna have to do the news and the weathers, and when they're not doing that, they're gonna be pre‑recording some of it, you know.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13286 Like the ‑‑ the updates are gonna be pre‑recorded. The weathers will be pre‑recorded. You know, you gotta, at the top and the bottom of your hour, is your news and weather. But on ‑‑ at quarter after and quarter to is usually your news update and weather. It's kind of a little pre‑recorded thing, and then you ‑‑ so like that ‑‑ we're gonna get our spoken word.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13287 Plus, we get a lot of locals. Like the police show, it's all locally done. We usually pre‑record it for reasons that sometimes if a person talks, like myself, if I talk too much, I could say the wrong thing, you know. So we kinda record a ten minute show and we edit it and put it on air. So that's the ten minute there of, you know, the spoken words. And we'll repeat that program in the afternoon, so that the officer doesn't have to be in the area of your station no more. He could go back to work, so there's a lot of it that's volunteer from the community, to get them involved.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13288 The Mayor of West Nipissing, she's on the radio a couple of times a week, you know, with our on‑air guy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13289 THE CHAIRPERSON: But with this complement of staff, who for example, would act as the News Director, to ensure accuracy of the news ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13290 MR. CORMIER: Oh, the Manager. The Station Manager.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13291 THE CHAIRPERSON: Station manager.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13292 MR. CORMIER: Oh yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13293 THE CHAIRPERSON: Good. Would the Station Manager also be an on‑air person?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13294 MR. CORMIER: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13295 THE CHAIRPERSON: At times.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13296 MR. CORMIER: Yes, for sure.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13297 THE CHAIRPERSON: What assurances can you give us that this programming will be compelling enough to attract a radio audience to your station in this competitive market?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13298 MR. CORMIER: I, that's just something that I know. I know how people are. And I know people wanna hear Elvis Presley, and like the music ‑‑ the music, and the small town feeling that we're gonna put on this station ‑‑ the local artists that are gonna come in. I got ‑‑ I got people, like, for example, Northern Music Resource ‑‑ this guy here, like, he's been in bands ‑‑ he's a ‑‑ he's a ‑‑ he's a studio musician. I'm getting all excited here, cause I really like this stuff ‑‑ and what he's gonna do, he's gonna create programs, and they're gonna keep the interest of the people there. Cause it lacks that. They want the small town feeling back and I will bring that to them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13299 THE CHAIRPERSON: And that will be achieved through your spoken word programming as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13300 MR. CORMIER: Oh yeah, the spoken words, plus our shows. A lot of the retired broadcasters too would like to make another appearance on an oldies station. A lot of people wanna hear these guys, you know. Rick Nelson is one guy that ‑‑ that was working for an oldies station in Sudbury before. And he's ready to come back, you know. So, we got lots of people like that ‑‑ Bob Woods. They all wanna do radio shows. So we're gonna include them, and it's gonna bring our spoken word up probably to more than 19 hours.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13301 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. I heard you this morning in your presentation when you talked about how efficiently you're going to run this station. But, in this application, the average salary of the on‑air talent seems to be around $23,000 a year. On what basis did you forecast this salary level, and how viable is it to attract on‑air talent that is going to be able to produce this level of spoken word programming ‑‑ a level of spoken word programming that the audience will want to listen to.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13302 MR. CORMIER: Okay, I'm pretty confident about that because of the applications I've already received for jobs in this market due to a lot of people getting laid off from bigger operations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13303 A lot of people out of school, that wants to learn about broadcasting. I got people from St. Marie, people from everywhere. But a lot of people from Sudbury wants to come and work, and we base that salary, as a starting salary of course, until they could prove themselves.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13304 And, like I said, we're not gonna ‑‑ you know, if we need more staff ‑‑ we're making more money, we'll hire more staff. But that ‑‑ to run like this ‑‑ the people are ready to take the wages that we have there. Cause I've, I've spoken to them. I've did many interviews. And there's a lot of people, believe it or not, it's not a thing of money. It's a thing of being on air, and ‑‑ you know, especially the older people. There's a lot of people that are in their 50's and 60's that are applying for jobs, and it's just a ‑‑ you know ‑‑ I used to do radio, you know, I miss it, I wanna come back and work for you. And you know what, I've got enough money, I don't really care about the wage ‑‑ so ‑‑ I'm not saying that we're gonna do that to everybody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13305 We're gonna hire some young people that have the knowledge of new technology. But I also wanna bring the old school guys back and women back to radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13306 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Are you planning to do any voice tracking, or automation?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13307 MR. CORMIER: Well, we're gonna voice track some certain things, like I said, weather scans, cause you can't have a guy going on, or a woman going on, steady doing a small ‑‑ a small ‑‑ how can I say ‑‑ a small update. But we'd like to voice track the evening hours, like you know. It's a 24 hour operation. So, yes, we're gonna voice track some.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13308 THE CHAIRPERSON: So how are you defining the evening hours? From what period to what period will the radio station be voice tracked?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13309 MR. CORMIER: Well, we want to voice track from 11:00 p.m. until probably 6:00 a.m.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13310 THE CHAIRPERSON: And does that include the weekends?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13311 MR. CORMIER: Yep.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13312 THE CHAIRPERSON: And will you be live on the weekends, during the day?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13313 MR. CORMIER: Oh yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13314 THE CHAIRPERSON: Before 11:00 p.m.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13315 MR. CORMIER: Yeah, a lot of ‑‑ there's ‑‑ weekends I find we get a lot of live on‑locations too, so is that considered live, or ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13316 THE CHAIRPERSON: I'm sorry ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13317 MR. CORMIER: A live on location ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13318 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13319 MR. CORMIER: Where you bring your vehicle ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13320 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Do you anticipate any synergies with your station in Sturgeon Falls?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13321 MR. CORMIER: No, not for the oldies station, cause we don't wanna image it the same way. This is oldies, the other one is more of a top‑40 type radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13322 THE CHAIRPERSON: So not even for any of your news programming, for example.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13323 MR. CORMIER: Maybe, we're not sure yet.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13324 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Any back office operation synergies ‑‑ accounting?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13325 MR. CORMIER: Yeah, accounting will take care of the two operations. So we'll use the accountant from Sturgeon Falls to, you know, kind of help us out in Sudbury.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13326 THE CHAIRPERSON: And that also goes to the efficiencies of your cost efficiencies.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13327 MR. CORMIER: Well, there we go. Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13328 THE CHAIRPERSON: All right, now in terms of CCD.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13329 MR. CORMIER: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13330 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for your responses of March 20th. That certainly helped to clarify your CCD contributions and your further correction this morning.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13331 MR. CORMIER: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13332 THE CHAIRPERSON: I just have one question about the bursaries to which you have allocated $2,000 to the two School Boards. Four bursaries, and/or to purchase musical instruments.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13333 MR. CORMIER: M'hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13334 THE CHAIRPERSON: Have you had discussions with the Boards to determine how this $2,000 will be broken out, that is, would they prefer it to be in the form of bursaries, or would they prefer it in the form of purchasing musical instruments?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13335 MR. CORMIER: Okay, thanks for the question. I did spoke to some Principals from schools, and the Board. And what we're gonna do is ‑‑ I told them right off the bat ‑‑ don't get your hopes high ‑‑ cause I don't know if this is gonna happen. But if it happens, we're willing to give a couple of thousand dollars to the two School Boards and you guys are gonna decide where it goes. You know, if you need some musical instruments one year ‑‑ but the thing is, if I commit to ‑‑ let's say to an annual bursay, like an award for ‑‑ a scholarship ‑‑ so if we commit this scholarship, we wanna keep that commitment to a scholarship, and so he said, whenever we had the application to go see him, and they'll use the money, no problem.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13336 THE CHAIRPERSON: And have you ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13337 MR. CORMIER: I don't know what to answer, it's like ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13338 THE CHAIRPERSON: That's fine, but if it is scholarships, have you had discussions with them to determine ‑‑ or even as a preliminary discussion ‑‑ the basis on which these scholarships will be awarded?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13339 MR. CORMIER: Well, it would have to do with music. Students going to the music field, let's say, like, for an example ‑‑ when Shania Twain went to school, you know, she was the best in her music ‑‑ cause I know her, she was the best in her music class, whatever. They sent her to school. I'm just giving an example. Or, somebody ‑‑ like in Sturgeon Falls, it's a very musical town ‑‑ so if somebody's got good grades, and they're into the music ‑‑ you know, if they won contests ‑‑ they're gonna award it to that person that's most ‑‑ it's probably gonna go by points at school, they were telling me. So, I'm not sure what they're gonna decide on that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13340 But we're gonna work together and we're gonna make sure that happens that proper way.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13341 THE CHAIRPERSON: And if you are awarded this license, would you be prepared to file with the Commission letters with these School Boards or the Principals with whomever you make these agreements, outlining, in fact, how this money will be spent?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13342 MR. CORMIER: Definitely.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13343 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. My last set of questions have to do with your business plan, which is also a prompt for my colleagues to let me know if they have further questions for you, when I'm done.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13344 MR. CORMIER: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13345 THE CHAIRPERSON: Given your assertion that this format is missing from the Sudbury market, what is your projected audience share, during the first term of the license, if it is granted?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13346 MR. CORMIER: Our audience share. First of all, like I was saying ‑‑ the population ‑‑ the aging population ‑‑ is getting up there, and the baby boomers, which I'm at the start ‑‑ I think I start in the middle of that ‑‑ is very high.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13347 These people have a big interest for this music. It's like ‑‑ I don't wanna project too high to make myself ‑‑ this share of the market would probably be maybe 18%. Would that be something ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13348 THE CHAIRPERSON: Starting in year one?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13349 MR. CORMIER: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13350 THE CHAIRPERSON: Fifty plus, or forty‑five plus target audience typically is not the most attractive to advertisers. What factors did you take into consideration in arriving at your advertising projections?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13351 MR. CORMIER: Well, first of all, I talked to a lot of advertising before I even applied for this license, cause I wasn't gonna put all that money in there for nothing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13352 Talking to a guy like Sturgeon Falls Auto Sports and Marine, Mike Renault, which has a company now, it's called Toilies.ca ‑‑ I'm just gonna talk about this company, cause this company is where ‑‑ is most of the advertisers, you know, the coffee shops, and these guys selling bikes ‑‑ and he told me, he says, you know what, these bikes ‑‑ when you get that station going ‑‑ or if you know ‑‑ cause I did talk to him about the questions I had for him.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13353 And he said his biggest market is like these people doing these rallies and that, that are buying brand new bikes and they're spending the most money ‑‑ are the people in the age group of 45 and up. Cause they got the disposable income. Their kids are all older, they got money to spend.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13354 The same as the Harley Davidson owner ‑‑ if you see them riding on the highway, lots of them have grey hair. And that's the audience I'm looking at, and those are the people that are gonna listen to the radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13355 Like the whole club wants to listen ‑‑ the car club on Sunday nights, they're so excited at about the music of the beach music that the car dealers and that are all in, you know.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13356 So I've projected on a lot of ‑‑ how can I say it ‑‑ a lot of the people I've spoken to, and the businesses that tell me that these ‑‑ they wanna aim to these people, cause right now they can't. Cause the musics are ‑‑ you know, they're top 40 and ‑‑ They're good stations, don't get me wrong, and they make ‑‑ you know, they do pretty good. So the projection that we got is ‑‑ like I said ‑‑ it's realistic.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13357 I brought the numbers up and I brought them back down to be able to run it in my projection.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13358 THE CHAIRPERSON: I did see that, in response to deficiencies, you did say that you had talked to advertisers in the market. And my next question was, but you've already answered it ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13359 MR. CORMIER: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13360 THE CHAIRPERSON: Who some of these advertisers were, so thank you, we've eliminated one question so far.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13361 MR. CORMIER: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13362 THE CHAIRPERSON: What percentage of your advertising revenues will come from existing radio stations, new advertisers, and growth in advertisers budgets?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13363 MR. CORMIER: Growth in advertiser ‑‑ growth in advertiser's business ‑‑ just by going by a few people I was talking to from other markets ‑‑ I would like to advertise in our market. Sorry. Probably 15 or 20 per cent, from ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13364 THE CHAIRPERSON: From growth in advertisers?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13365 MR. CORMIER: From growth, from growth, yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13366 THE CHAIRPERSON: And from existing radio stations?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13367 MR. CORMIER: Well, we'll probably take a little bit away from them too, maybe, I don't know, 10 or 15 per cent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13368 THE CHAIRPERSON: And that would leave you with a balance of 75% ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13369 MR. CORMIER: M'hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13370 THE CHAIRPERSON: From new advertisers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13371 MR. CORMIER: Well, new advertisers that have never been on the radio ‑‑ but the thing is, we still have the national ads too that ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13372 THE CHAIRPERSON: Aren't the main percentage of national advertisers that you have projected?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13373 MR. CORMIER: I'd project another 20% there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13374 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. You've still tot 55% to go.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13375 MR. CORMIER: 55% to go in new businesses, like ‑‑ like, myself. I'll give you an example again. We had a baby shower for our baby, and the biggest gift was bought by our grandmother, which is 75 years old. And she bought that at ‑‑ you know ‑‑ stores like Wal Mart ‑‑ and boutiques ‑‑ they do a lot of boutique shopping.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13376 A lot of specialty items ‑‑ specialty coffee shops ‑‑ where seniors go. A lot of these places too were ‑‑ like the YMCA ‑‑ and different businesses to attract that crowd.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13377 THE CHAIRPERSON: And those businesses do not currently advertise on the radio?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13378 MR. CORMIER: Well maybe they do.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13379 MR. CORMIER: Well, you just got me on the question, I'll have to think about it a bit, and write it down. Like I don't have all the answers. I got probably lots of the answers you're looking for.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13380 THE CHAIRPERSON: I mean because the reason for the question is to assess what impact you will have ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13381 MR. CORMIER: M'hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13382 THE CHAIRPERSON: On existing radio stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13383 MR. CORMIER: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13384 THE CHAIRPERSON: And on the market in general. So that's really the purpose of the question. And if you say that, from existing radio advertisers, you're only anticipating a 10% impact.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13385 MR. CORMIER: It'll probably be a bit more than that, I'm sorry. It'll probably be up to maybe 20%. That's what I ‑‑ I don't have the papers in front of me, I'm sorry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13386 THE CHAIRPERSON: Now, you've provided us with some information, but you're forecasting a rather healthy business, that in the first term, will have a net income starting at about $63,000 in year one, rising to more than $800,000 in year seven.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13387 MR. CORMIER: M'hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13388 THE CHAIRPERSON: What's your secret?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13389 MR. CORMIER: What's my secret ‑‑ the secret is low cost, and that's if I hit ‑‑ if I hit the projections.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13390 THE CHAIRPERSON: And if your format‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13391 MR. CORMIER: I'll tell you what my secret is. It's a launch package where you pre‑sell your station to the people, so you can get these things going.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13392 Like you ask about the first year. You gotta plan it ‑‑ you gotta plan your grand opening, you gotta plan your launch. And you gotta plan it good. And you get people on board. And the first year when you open, you should be making a profit.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13393 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, well, thank you very much. Those are my questions, and Commissioner Cram has questions for you now. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13394 MR. CORMIER: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13395 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank you. Mr. Cormier, I'm curious and in fact this whole process has made me very curious.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13396 Vous êtes francophone?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13397 M. CORMIER: Oui.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13398 COMMISSIONER CRAM: And there are 28 pour‑cent de francophones à Sudbury...
LISTNUM 1 \l 13399 And why have you not applied for a French station?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13400 MR. CORMIER: Cause there was already a French station, and I don't wish to compete with any other radio stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13401 COMMISSIONER CRAM: But there's only one commercial francophone station in Sudbury ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13402 MR. CORMIER: M'hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13403 COMMISSIONER CRAM: And there's three commercial English stations in Sudbury.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13404 MR. CORMIER: Well my survey indicated that they wanted an oldies radio station. That's like an oldies format, so that's what we're applying for.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13405 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay, so the francophone station is an oldies station also, is that it?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13406 MR. CORMIER: No, no, it's not. I'm not sure, I don't listen to it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13407 COMMISSIONER CRAM: H'mm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13408 MR. CORMIER: So I can't really ‑‑ I know the thing is about that station ‑‑ you know, they do play a big variety of French station ‑‑ I just ‑‑ it wasn't the market that I was looking to serve. I'm more of a professional in an English radio station. I know the music better.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13409 COMMISSIONER CRAM: All right, okay. On page eight of your presentation today, the bottom bullet. On 80% of our musical format, a minimum of 10% will feature emerging and local Canadian artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13410 So ‑‑ and I thought I just heard you answer the Chair ‑‑ that you would be doing 10% emerging and local and/or local Canadian artists. So not just on 80% of your format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13411 MR. CORMIER: Home Grown it's called. It's a two hour local Canadian artist show. Plus we want to feature it twice in a week. But you know what, we gotta pick up the music first. I don't wanna say ‑‑ you know ‑‑ we'll put it four hours a week, when I can't deliver it. Two hours, I will deliver it, no problem. I'm not gonna promise something I can't do.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13412 And also on Sunday mornings, we feature a lot of ‑‑ a lot of our local musicians ‑‑ it's more than every ten songs ‑‑ it's like every three songs. So I'm just going minimum ‑‑ minimum ten, it'll probably be a lot ‑‑ a little bit more than that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13413 So that's where my reasoning is for the 10%, okay?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13414 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yeah, I hear you, but is it a minimum of 10% overall, or is it a minimum of 10% of 80%?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13415 MR. CORMIER: Okay, it's 10% of overall. That is my mistake, I'm sorry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13416 COMMISSIONER CRAM: I hear you. Okay, thank you very much, Madame Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13417 THE CHAIRPERSON: Vice‑Chairman Arpin.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13418 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Thank you, Madame Chair. Mr. Cormier, in the ‑‑ did I hear you well when you said to the Chair that ‑‑ when she asked you about your first year market share ‑‑ that you answered 18? An 18 market share for year one?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13419 MR. CORMIER: I just gotta think about that for a sec, okay. I'm just calculating. Yeah, yeah I did say 18.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13420 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: So you did say 18.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13421 MR. CORMIER: I'd like to look ‑‑ I wanna make sure I'm answering this right, but I did say 18, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13422 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: So you did say 18. And you're comfortable keeping 18 as a market share twelve plus? Or were you talking twelve plus, or ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13423 MR. CORMIER: No.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13424 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Or 35 plus, or ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13425 MR. CORMIER: No, 45 plus, sorry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13426 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: 45 plus.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13427 MR. CORMIER: Yeah, 45 plus.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13428 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13429 MR. CORMIER: The younger generation‑‑ there's lots that are ‑‑ I'll just explain. There's lots that showed interest in hearing the station when they're at their grandmothers, or their uncles, or their aunts, you know. I wanna make it like a family radio ‑‑ on Sundays, you get to tune in. So the 12 to 45 market, I'm not sure exactly.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13430 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: So it would be 18 ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13431 MR. CORMIER: 18 for ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13432 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: And if we were to take it on a two plus base, only for matter of comparison with the other applicants, so we'll use the same base for everyone ‑‑ being 12 plus ‑‑ what will be your market share?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13433 MR. CORMIER: I don't know if I understand the question.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13434 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Je peux vous la poser en français?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13435 M. CORMIER: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13436 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Ce que je cherche à savoir, c'est votre part de marché pour les...
LISTNUM 1 \l 13437 M. CORMIER: Oui.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13438 CONSEILLER ARPIN: ... l'auditoire 12 plus.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13439 M. CORMIER: Oui...
LISTNUM 1 \l 13440 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Pour avoir la même base de données, avec tous les autres requérants. Donc, est‑ce que vous êtes...?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13441 Bon. Vous m'avez dit tantôt que c'était... Vous visiez 18 pour‑cent pour la première année...
LISTNUM 1 \l 13442 M. CORMIER: Oui.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13443 CONSEILLER ARPIN: ... pour 45‑64.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13444 M. CORMIER: Oui.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13445 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Et si je l'amène... si on le ramène sur une base de l'ensemble de l'auditoire mesuré par BBM, qui va être 12 plus qui est la...
LISTNUM 1 \l 13446 M. CORMIER: Hum‑hum.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13447 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Est‑ce qu'on parle ici... d'une part de marché de quel pourcentage?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13448 M. CORMIER: Bien, tant qu'à moi, ça ne sera pas un très gros pourcentage de plus, parce que c'est un petit peu dur à figurer. Eux autres, on dirait qu'ils veulent aller plus dans... écouter du Top 40, puis ça, du 12, aller jusqu'au 45, ça je sais...
LISTNUM 1 \l 13449 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Non, non. Mais je ne parle pas du 12‑45, je parle du 12‑64...
LISTNUM 1 \l 13450 M. CORMIER: Du douze... Oui, oui, du 12 aux 100 ans, disons.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13451 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Oui.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13452 M. CORMIER: Oui. Il faudrait que j'aille avec un autre trois pour‑cent sur le top des 18, probablement.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13453 CONSEILLER ARPIN: En plus?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13454 M. CORMIER: Non, non, ça va être moins, monsieur le commissaire.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13455 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Ça va être beaucoup... ça va être beaucoup moins, là...
LISTNUM 1 \l 13456 M. CORMIER: Oh! Excuse! Excuse! Oui!
LISTNUM 1 \l 13457 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Ça va être beaucoup moins?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13458 M. CORMIER: Oui. Ah! Okay! Du... Oui, okay. Je comprends qu'est‑ce que tu veux dire. Peut‑être un...
LISTNUM 1 \l 13459 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Mais là, à titre... à titre d'indication, là, parce que c'est des données publiques, si HNO, lui, fait 16.3...
LISTNUM 1 \l 13460 M. CORMIER: Hum‑hum.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13461 CONSEILLER ARPIN: ... 12 plus. Bien c'est sur que si HNO, dans son groupe primaire...
LISTNUM 1 \l 13462 M. CORMIER: Ah! Non, non. Non.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13463 CONSEILLER ARPIN: ... il va faire beaucoup plus?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13464 M. CORMIER: Oui, oui, oui. Exactement. Je dirais un 2 à 3 pour‑cent, monsieur.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13465 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Dans l'ensemble. Donc vous dites c'est trois part de marché, 12 plus?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13466 M. CORMIER: Oui, probablement.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13467 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13468 M. CORMIER: Je n'ai pas vraiment...
LISTNUM 1 \l 13469 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Non, non... Mais ça fait...
LISTNUM 1 \l 13470 M. CORMIER: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13471 CONSEILLER ARPIN: D'accord. Ça clarifie un peu le... En fait, je pense que c'est effectivement quelque chose dans cet ordre‑là qui va être... qui risque d'être la réalité.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13472 Now if I could get back to the finishing of emerging artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13473 MR. CORMIER: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13474 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: There was ‑‑ you had a discussion with both the Chair and Commissioner Cram, but you ‑‑ have you defined, other than Home Grown artists, what is an emerging artist for you?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13475 MR. CORMIER: I'll get that for you okay. We got it here ‑‑ I know in my own words, that it's an artist that ‑‑ I better get the information ‑‑ I don't wanna say the wrong thing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13476 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Well, I see that in the deficiencies, that you used the definition that has been developed by the CAB. And which is an artist that up until twelve full months after the date their first selection reaches the top 40 on BDS or media based all format chart, or becomes gold certified for the first time. So that's the definition that you used. Do you think it's ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13477 MR. CORMIER: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13478 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Do you think it meets the specifics of your format?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13479 MR. CORMIER: Oh, yes it does, especially in Category 3 music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13480 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: We're now talking Category 2.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13481 MR. CORMIER: Oh, okay, Category 2.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13482 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: The popular music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13483 MR. CORMIER: The thing is about the popular music ‑‑ the only thing I wanna do ‑‑ I wanna play emerging artists ‑‑ there's no problem. I didn't want to compete with the other stations too much and get them all ‑‑ you know how it is. And I didn't want to put stuff ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13484 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: But in your format, obviously, I don't think emerging artists ‑‑ it's a puzzling situation, because obviously if you play oldie music, there's not that many new artists in the oldie music. Mind you, they could be alike, and new musicians even playing the same old ‑‑ the same material ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13485 MR. CORMIER: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13486 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: The same material that Glenn Miller and Tony Bennett have done, but ‑‑ and they are totally new to new recording artists, but there are not that many. But the finishing that I just read ‑‑ and that's the one you use, meets really the specifics of the format in which you have applied for.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13487 MR. CORMIER: I believe it does. I'll give you my reason for this. In Sturgeon Falls when I started the JOCO Radio, we started something new there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13488 We had 20% French, and you know, top 40, we'll mix it in with the local artists. People ‑‑ what are you talking about, it's not gonna work ‑‑ I mean, I'm putting local artists from every type of music ‑‑ and emerging artists ‑‑ I've asked the older generation ‑‑ the people in retirement homes that Monique and I went and interviewed ‑‑ they would love to hear the new music from Canada.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13489 It's gotta be Canadian content, of course. They're gonna ‑‑ they're gonna ‑‑ like High Holy Days ‑‑ it's kind of a heavy thing, but the grandmother listens to it, you know what I mean. So they're emerging, they're new, and they really enjoy to listen to their songs.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13490 But you can't put like 3 or 4 in a row, cause they're gonna tune out. But one ‑‑ like at the ‑‑ 10% of the overall music ‑‑ I'm sure will be acceptable.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13491 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: And what will be the median age of your listener, and which demographic will it be? Will it be male, or female or ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13492 MR. CORMIER: Oh, that's a mix, and it's just about 50/50. In our survey, I think it's a little bit more female than male. Demographics, 40 and up.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13493 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Forty and up. The median age.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13494 MR. CORMIER: Median age? Qu'est‑ce que ça veut dire "median age"?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13495 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Je veux dire l'âge... quand vous parlez à votre... d'histoire, vous êtes même vous‑même un DJ. Vous avez fait ce métier‑là.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13496 M. CORMIER: Oui.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13497 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Dans votre... mentalement, l'auditeur que vous voyez devant vous c'est... Vous venez de me dire que c'est plus généralement... c'est plus une femme qu'un homme, mais il a 40, il a 45, il a 50 ans, il a 65 ans?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13498 M. CORMIER: Oui, c'est le... C'est plus dans les 50‑60 qu'on regarde...
LISTNUM 1 \l 13499 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Puis tu (inaudible).
LISTNUM 1 \l 13500 M. CORMIER: Peut‑être bien dans les 60. Ça ferait‑tu... ça fait‑tu votre affaire?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13501 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Non, non. C'est votre réponse, là...
LISTNUM 1 \l 13502 M. CORMIER: C'est‑tu 60...?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13503 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Moi... Je ne négocie pas, là, je cherche une réponse.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13504 M. CORMIER: Ah! Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13505 Ça serait plus dans la soixantaine...
LISTNUM 1 \l 13506 Retirement age is more of ‑‑ cause there's a big ‑‑ a big gap of people there. Age group ‑‑ Elvis Presley ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13507 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: What is the size of that population in Sudbury?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13508 MR. CORMIER: Oh the size of the population ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13509 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Of that age group.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13510 MR. CORMIER: Oh, that age group ‑‑ it's 18 % of the population.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13511 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: It's 18% of the population.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13512 MR. CORMIER: Approximately.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13513 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Selon Statistiques Canada, c'est 14.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13514 M. CORMIER: Okay... Oui.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13515 CONSEILLER ARPIN: Oui, 14. Those were my...
LISTNUM 1 \l 13516 MR. CORMIER: Yeah, you're right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13517 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Those were my questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13518 MR. CORMIER: Okay, thanks.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13519 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Del Val.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13520 COMMISSIONER DEL VAL: Thank you. Just one question. I was just interested ‑‑ in your opening statements ‑‑ you said ‑‑ you asked the audience ‑‑ would you mind if I put in a new emerging artist, say every ten songs. And you said they didn't mind. Now, who did you ask?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13521 MR. CORMIER: Well the survey we did. The survey was all based on this format. So we conducted a survey and that was one of the questions ‑‑ we said okay ‑‑ they said okay ‑‑ an oldies station, okay, yeah, we'd like one. So I said okay, listen ‑‑ if we ‑‑ cause the emerging ‑‑ the new artists ‑‑ like, it's more of a local artist. Emerging artists ‑‑ we kinda ‑‑ there's a lot of artists there in Sudbury that we spoke to, and that was their response.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13522 That out of every ten songs ‑‑ how can I say it ‑‑ even if it's not a strong song, they'll listen to it. But if you go too much, you gotta be careful too with that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13523 COMMISSIONER DEL VAL: M'hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13524 MR. CORMIER: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13525 COMMISSIONER DEL VAL: So, the ‑‑ it was an actual survey question.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13526 MR. CORMIER: Yeah, it was a survey question, plus after we did our sport letter campaign. Which we had to do ‑‑ a petition that we did for the people that were unable to use computers and that, so.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13527 COMMISSIONER DEL VAL: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13528 THE CHAIRPERSON: Legal counsel.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13529 MS DIONNE: I only have one question. You've committed to a 10% emerging Canadian artist commitment. Would you agree to have this by way of condition of your license?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13530 MR. CORMIER: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13531 MS DIONNE: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13532 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. I'm now going to give you a couple of minutes to give us your best pitch as to why you believe your application would serve the Sudbury market the best.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13533 MR. CORMIER: We at JOCO Communications are locally owned and operated. Sudbury is where we live. We purchase our groceries there. We play sports. It's where we hang out with our friends and family. We go to the YMCA with Monique and the baby. It's a great place to live. I'm really happy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13534 We have the privilege to experience what our city has to offer, which is great, we have so many things.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13535 We are members of clubs and charity groups. That matters to the ‑‑ to Sudbury, to the city of Sudbury.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13536 We also know what Sudbury needs, and what Sudbury wants. As far as for music, and what they wanna hear on the radio. And comments they could make to the radio station owner. Which is something that's lacking a bit.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13537 We know what the people from Sudbury needs. Again, I am repeating myself. We met with local entertainers, and we will meet their needs and expectations. They need to be heard, and we're ready to offer that. We've proved that in our other radio station. We're ready to do that there too.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13538 In order to serve a community, you need to know a community. By being local residents from Sudbury, we understand the needs and wants. JOCO Communicaton is the only applicant that is a local operator. That will be a local operator.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13539 And in closing, I would like to take this opportunity to thank Madame Chair, Vice‑Chair, and the Commission, and of course, all who supported our application for JOCO Communications Incorporated. Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13540 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. We will now break for lunch. We will resume at 1:15. Thank you.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 11:47 a.m.
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1:19 p.m.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13541 THE CHAIRPERSON: Order please. Madame Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13542 THE SECRETARY: We will now proceed with Item #14 on the agenda, which is an application by William Wrightsell, on behalf of a Corporation to be incorporated, to be known as Nickel Star Broadcasting, for a license to operate an English‑language FM commercial radio programming undertaking in Sudbury.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13543 The new station would operate on frequency 94.5 Mhz, channel 2322A, with an effective radiated power of 1,500 watts, non‑directional antenna, antenna height of 108 metres.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13544 Appearing for the applicant is Mr. William Wrightsell, who will introduce his colleagues. You will then have 20 minutes to make your presentation.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
LISTNUM 1 \l 13545 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Thank you. Commissioner's, Counsel, and CRTC staff. Thank you for the opportunity to present this application on behalf of Nickel Star Broadcasting for an FM broadcast undertaking in Sudbury.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13546 I would like to introduce my team.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13547 Firstly, Dr. Thomas Dignan, medical professional who has provided health services to hospitals and First Nations communities in northern Ontario for over thirty years. Dr. Tom, as we like to call him, is a Queen's Golden Jubilee medal winner, a National Aboriginal Achievement Award winner, and most recently, the recipient of the Order of Ontario.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13548 To my left is Michael Comuzzi, a long time associate of Dr. Dignan's, with a friendship that has spanned over 25 years. Mr. Comuzzi is President of Lakehead Motors Ltd., Northstar Mercedes Benz, Hertz of Thunder Bay, and most recently involved in the operations of Ottawa Dodge here in Ottawa Hull.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13549 Wayne Plunkett is beside him. He is a broadcast consultant who has offered assistance to us during the application process.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13550 And I am Bill Wrightsell, the owner of Wrightsell Advertising, a full service advertising and marketing company, which has offices in Thunder Bay and Toronto.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13551 I began my career as a radio announcer and reporter and later worked in radio sales at CFPA, CJLB, Thunder Bay. I continue to work with radio stations in both media buying and client promotion capacities. I have a deep‑rooted passion for radio and the influence it can have in the life of a community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13552 I worked with Mr. Comuzzi for over ten years as his advertising agent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13553 Our application began as a simple conversation at Mr. Comuzzi's dealership in Thunder Bay back in 2003. We discussed what we liked and disliked about local radio as we often do, and our visions on how a radio station could better serve the needs of the community, both the public and the business community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13554 We felt that based on the state of the Thunder Bay market, it would be unlikely that a station license would be granted in the near future. And I had been engaged by two clients to purchase their time in Sudbury, the Ontario Public Health Association, and Equipment World Incorporated.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13555 At that time, with the Sudbury stations operating under a management agreement, I was amazed at the difficulty in purchasing this air time, receiving audience data, and public service support for a non‑profit organization like OPHA.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13556 After further researching and visiting the Sudbury market in the summer of 2004, I began to construct the application you have before you today.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13557 All three of us are deeply committed to northern Ontario, and have an understanding of the challenges and opportunities that exist. I will be moving to Sudbury to operate the station. Tom will liaise with the aboriginal community, and actively contribute to the station's programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13558 Michael, who for the past year, has travelled between dealerships in Thunder Bay and Ottawa, will occasionally travel to Sudbury to offer his management and sales expertise to the station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13559 The City of Greater Sudbury is an anomaly in northern Ontario, experiencing growth and prosperity in recent years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13560 Just last year, two of the world's largest mining companies, CVRD and Extrata, purchased Inco and Falconbridge for a staggeringly high value for their mineral assets. These acquisitions show a high confidence in long term commitment to the citizens and the workforce of Sudbury.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13561 Even better, you can't move the rock to Mexico or another country. Sudbury's mining industry will be serving world demands for many years to come.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13562 According to the CIBC World Market Reports Economic Index, Sudbury ranked seventh out of the top 25 cities in Canada. Sudbury has not seen the licensing of a new commercial radio station in over 25 years. Every other market over 100,000 from market 17 to market 30, has benefited from the licensing of at least one new commercial station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13563 Now about the programming. The spirit of our application is to strike a successful balance between addressing the Commission's needs for providing reasonable levels of diverse programming, and keeping our proposed station viable and attractive to businesses and advertisers. Businesses, advertisers, same thing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13564 The format, as we researched the demographics of Sudbury and compared that to the current radio services available, we identified a substantial void for listeners aged 40 plus.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13565 According to Statistics Canada, Sudbury's median age is 40.4. That's 3.2 years older than the Ontario average of 37.2. Yet most of the English radio formats skew to a younger listener, with the exception of CIGM Country, which serves an older audience, but only those who enjoy country music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13566 Based on our research, an adult standards and more format consists of a mix of adult contemporary, adult standards, and oldies best addresses this programming void.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13567 The closest existing format would be the adult contemporary station Easy Rock. Based on two air check samples taken in 2005, and again in 2006, it was determined that Easy Rock's music selections contained a very contemporary sound with over 50% of their selections recorded after the year 2000.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13568 It also revealed that a good number of artists from radios past 40 years are not finding a home on local radio. Artists like Frank Sinatra, Joni Mitchell, Ray Charles, are not being exposed currently.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13569 Newer artists such as Molly Johnson, Harry Connick Jr., Diana Krall, are also not readily available on local radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13570 There is a great universe of artists and composers that define the programming void. To help us define the precise shape and texture of the proposed format, we created a number of artists group clusters in our survey to reflect the music styles that make up an adult contemporary and more format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13571 Classic vocal remakes and folk artists ranked the highest in our research, at over 70% acceptance. This was followed by soft pop, oldies, classic vocal, modern nostalgic, adult standards, and legends. Instrumentals ranked at the lowest on the acceptance scale.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13572 We provided the music list and percentage breakdowns that reflected these findings. Of course, for maximum impact, we've also added those music styles with limited availability in Sudbury.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13573 For example, styles like class vocal remakes are not currently being played on Sudbury radio and we have modified the percentages in our brief to reflect that reality.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13574 To market our station, we felt that we needed a positioning statement that reflects the music diversity of the format. The Universe is such a statement. The Universe is a brand name that we will trademark to reflect the wide variety of musical choices that we are making available to listeners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13575 On the Universe, you'll hear the classics like "I Left My Heart in San Francisco" and "Mac the Knife" and you'll also hear today's biggest artists who have also given the old standards a whole new spin.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13576 Artists like Rod Stewart, Carly Simon, Matt Dusk, and Michael Buble, recently released CD's embracing the classics and in doing so have achieved real commercial success. This music is hip again.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13577 This is a made in Sudbury music format, created in Sudbury, for Sudbury. Not simply a cookie cutter music list where music is rapid ‑‑ I'm sorry, a music list ‑‑ I'll redo the line here.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13578 This is a made in Sudbury music format, created in Sudbury, for Sudbury. Not simply a cookie cutter music list replicated across multiple markets as is currently the practice by some national and northern Ontario broadcasters.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13579 But the music format represents just one aspect of our plan. In the on demand world that we're now entering, where music is rapidly becoming an interchangeable commodity, we believe that our long term success will spring from the roots deeply planted in the community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13580 It is on this basis that I would like to address what we see as the four pillars that define our application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13581 The first pillar, news and information.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13582 The second, community access to non‑profit groups.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13583 Third, aboriginal programming, including the addition of aboriginal news to Sudbury's community, and four, local talent access and initiatives along with benchmarks for exposing emerging talent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13584 We are acutely focused on addressing the concerns in pillar one, which is news and information. We're addressing the concerns expressed openly by the Commission and the many comments by local residents and organizations, such as the Friends of Canadian Broadcasting, looking to restore strong local news coverage in the Sudbury market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13585 It is clear that Sudbury doesn't need more features, or entertainment, or cruiser reports. What they need is a news department.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13586 We will offer news every hour, seven days a week, including local news programming each hour from 6:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., including live local newscasts on weekends from 10:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13587 Our news people will not be expected to twin as morning show co‑hosts, or announcers acting as news readers. They will be actual news writers and reporters who will be solely responsible for the news gathering and news presentation of our station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13588 We will offer the largest commitment to news coverage in the city, with a total of 245 minutes of live, locally produced news.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13589 Add to that the use of broadcast news during evening and some weekend hours, and our daily news and information programming from the aboriginal voices network.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13590 In all, we offer a total of 493 minutes of news programming per broadcast week.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13591 In a deficiency response document, 2005‑22, it was stated that all three existing FM stations offered a combined total of 232.3 minutes of news coverage per week.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13592 We are offering 245 minutes of local news, 188 minutes of broadcast news, 30 minutes of aboriginal voices news, and 30 minutes of aboriginal voices information programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13593 This strong commitment to news exceeds the totals of all three FM stations combined.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13594 Our news department will consist of three experienced, full‑time news people, including a news director, news announcer/reporter, and a junior announcer/reporter who, as well as one part‑time reporter stringer. This full complement of staff represents the largest commitment of all six applicants before you here today.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13595 This comprehensive local news reporting operation will allow us to research stories, attend and report live from City Council meetings, and from the scenes of breaking news events in the city and region.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13596 DR. DIGNAN: Pillar two aboriginal programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13597 The First Nations of Sudbury make up a substantial portion of the population base with 7,385 identified as aboriginal in greater Sudbury. The needs of this group are not being served by the National Broadcasters.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13598 To expose the news of relevance of this sizeable portion of the Sudbury, we will air five minutes of All Nations news from the Aboriginal Voices Network that will be slotted in prime time at 6:00 p.m. Monday through Saturday.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13599 We will also air a half hour specialty news and information program from Aboriginal Voices Network on Sundays at 10:00 a.m.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13600 We will also produce from our Sudbury studios, one hour program dedicated to Sudbury's First Nations. I will act as host of this program. This program will focus on presenting aboriginal culture, music, and information on local events.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13601 I will also conduct interviews and offer perspectives and stories from members of Sudbury's First Nations community, drawing on my experience of over thirty years, and my desire to affect positive change to the health of the community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13602 I will offer valuable health information and advice during this program. I will conduct interviews and engage experts of the health community to discuss health and lifestyle subjects of interest to both First Nations community and the community at large.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13603 Radio is a medium that is readily available to the aboriginal population, and I am certain this program initiative will be successful in improving the lives of Sudbury residents.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13604 More importantly, our station will represent inclusion of First Nations community into Sudbury's radio spectrum.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13605 I would just also like to include here that aboriginal is a recently coined word by government, which includes First Nations, Metis, and Inuit, and Sudbury has a large Metis population. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13606 MR. COMUZZI: Support for non‑profit groups.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13607 In our business careers, each of the founding partners in this organization have volunteered countless hours and invested heavily in supporting groups and organizations that contribute to the success of our community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13608 As such, we believe a good community broadcaster has an obligation to nurture and encourage the activities of non‑profit groups and organizations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13609 We will make available ten minutes of daily air time for the use of community groups, social agencies, and non‑profit organizations to present their message, elevate their profile, and encourage their fund raising efforts without cost or paid component accompanying their request.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13610 Our application is widely supported by the Sudbury non‑profit sector, including the United Way, the CNIB, and the Arthritis Society, just to name a few.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13611 We will make available no less than 20 to 30 second commercial messages for the use of these organizations each day from 6:00 a.m. to midnight.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13612 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Our next pillar revolves around Canadian talent development. To encourage the increased exposure to Canadian artists, and more importantly, to new and emerging artists, we will commit to air 40% Canadian content throughout the broadcast day.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13613 To encourage new and emerging artists, we commit to a minimum of 15% of our Canadian music selections will meet the CIB's definition of an emerging artist. We will not just plot the music of these artists, but we intend to creatively brand the music category as a flag waving favourite.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13614 The mature adult listener tends to crave familiarity. Therefore, it is essential to the success of the station that emerging artists be revealed with background material to expose their deeper personal identity to the listener.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13615 We envision this commitment will enhance the exposure of Sudbury music talent. As a new entry to the Canadian Broadcast system, we have devoted significant resources to the Canadian talent initiatives.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13616 Our three initiatives include: a yearly contribution of $4,000 to assist two promising grade twelve students in their pursuit of a post‑secondary career in music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13617 $8,000 for our Sing Like a Star Talent Search Competition. This money will be presented to the winners of both the general category, and the aboriginal category for the purchase of recording ‑‑ of purchasing recording time at the studio of their choice.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13618 To reflect the Commission's new benchmarks for basic CCD contributions and a 20% requirement for above and beyond contributions, we will present $26,200 to factor over the seven year license period.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13619 In total, we have committed a direct benefit above and beyond contribution of $103,700 for the seven year license period.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13620 We believe that artists need more from radio than money. They need air play, they need attention, they need encouragement. That can only be provided by a station that is connected to the community with local ownership.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13621 The Universe will also offer live local program hosts throughout the broadcast week. This addresses some of the dissatisfaction expressed by local residents regarding the widespread use of voice tracking and syndicated programming on Sudbury radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13622 We intend to resist this practice by employing announced talent that will be locally based to reflect the unique flavour that exists in the Sudbury market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13623 Over 121 hours of our programming schedule will be live and locally produced Monday through Sunday, from 6:00 a.m. to midnight. The only exceptions will be programming from the Aboriginal Voices Network, and Broadcast News.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13624 MR. COMUZZI: Our application is widely supported by numerous members of Sudbury's business community, recording artists, health professionals, Sudbury First Nations, and City Councillors.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13625 We have also garnered significant support by the citizens of greater Sudbury, including 200 signatures endorsing our application and various letters of support, including 45 e‑mails through our website, NewFMforSudbury.com.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13626 If there is one market in the country that will support a stand alone operator that is committed to serving the local community, we are certain the market is Sudbury.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13627 Our pillars to building a great radio station are firmly focused. Strong local news coverage, strong support for non‑profit groups and organizations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13628 Strong support for Sudbury's First Nations community. Strong support for local talent and emerging artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13629 We respectfully ask that the CRTC grant us a license to contribute to the diversity of voices in the Sudbury market and the Canadian Broadcast industry. This concludes or presentation, Madame Chair, thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13630 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, and I did see you sitting in here patiently waiting for us. And I will now hand you over to Commissioner Cram for questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13631 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank you gentlemen. Welcome to our hearing. I would just want to get a little better clarification of where you're planning to go. And you talked about the hole in the market being 40 plus, skewing to women. And I'm asking myself, is it because 40 plus, skewing to men, like country music, or like, how did you ascertain that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13632 MR. WRIGHTSELL: I think when you look at a contemporary format, it does tend to skew more female, in about a 60/40 breakdown, in any experience that I've ever seen with ratings. Contemporary stations usually will break down like that. So when we're offering a 40 plus product which is somewhat adult contemporary, but it's also older adult contemporary, those breakdowns will likely be the same, I would say around 60/40.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13633 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay, so you more chose the format than choosing the demographic, is that ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13634 MR. WRIGHTSELL: I did ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13635 COMMISSIONER CRAM: You started with format and then you went to ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13636 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13637 COMMISSIONER CRAM: And then the demographic followed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13638 MR. WRIGHTSELL: I was looking for a hole in the market, and there had been a hit station, up until two years ago, that was playing music for a younger audience, and that was changed to a ‑‑ I'm talking about Big Daddy, actually ‑‑ the New Cap station ‑‑ and so now they're targeting, you know, more of a 35, 40 year old with their station. And really what they're ‑‑ what we're trying to do is also find a hole for the strongest advertising group. I think that when you look at a 40 plus audience, that's a huge demographic. These people have money, it's the baby boomers, and I think the station has a better chance of succeeding. I think if we came in here and offered a programming that was targeting a younger audience as a stand alone, I think we would probably be in the same boat that New Cap was in two years ago when they changed format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13639 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13640 MR. WRIGHTSELL: We believe there is a hole in that 40 plus demographic, and it's ‑‑ it was quite obvious to me.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13641 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm. And the format, if I understand, adult standards and more, includes classical, vocal, remake, folk artist, does it, or not? Or you're going to include classical vocal remakes. And I'm at page three of your presentation today.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13642 MR. WRIGHTSELL: I believe there was a breakdown in the second supplemental brief that we submitted after the deadline. Or actually, at the ‑‑ after the call had been put out, we had applied about a month after JOCO actually, and when the call was made, we took that as an opportunity to provide you with other supplemental information. So there is a breakdown here of where we think the percentages will break down on the song list.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13643 Adult standards, 25%, soft pop, 25%, and folk artists, 15%, oldies, coming from the sixties, 10%, and classical or remakes, 10%, legends, 10%, instrumentals, 5%.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13644 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13645 MR. WRIGHTSELL: And like I said, that is in the material.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13646 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yeah. And how is that different from JOCO in their application today?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13647 MR. WRIGHTSELL: I think, from what I heard, he was looking for more of an oldies skew with his format. And I think, you know, we're looking at including some contemporary artists as well, so you know, you would hear a new artist on our station. You could very well hear someone like Molly Johnson, or Matt Dusk, or Divine Brown. Those are all fairly new artists that have come out in the last couple of years, and we would include those. You know, as long as the material was appropriate for our format and for our sound. They would be included as well in our breakdown. And they are in our music list that we've submitted as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13648 COMMISSIONER CRAM: And Haliburton also seems to be having somewhat similar format, and how are you different from their proposed format?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13649 MR. WRIGHTSELL: In reading theirs ‑‑ and again I don't know if I want to speak about each format of the other people ‑‑ but my interpretation of it would be that they sounded like were going after a little sound than us. So it could actually be ‑‑ you know our average listener could be around the 43, 44 range. Their listener could be more in the 55 range, as an average age.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13650 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13651 MR. WRIGHTSELL: I got the feeling that their brief ‑‑ the Haliburton brief ‑‑ was skewing an older audience than what we have projected.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13652 COMMISSIONER CRAM: And median age, that you would be targeting?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13653 MR. WRIGHTSELL: A median age that we would be targeting?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13654 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13655 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Um, I'm thinking it's gonna be around the 43, 44 year old. Like I said to you before.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13656 COMMISSIONER CRAM: You said average before.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13657 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Oh, I'm sorry. Well, I think that by average, I would mean that that would be the sort of break point in the middle.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13658 COMMISSIONER CRAM: So that's the person you're targeting.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13659 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13660 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay. And why do you think your format is better than JOCO ‑‑ that propsed by JOCO or Haliburton?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13661 MR. WRIGHTSELL: The JOCO format, like I said, I think they're more oldies oriented in their‑‑ how they looked at things ‑‑ as well as Haliburton's. I think we would have to skew a little bit younger in order to survive as a stand alone, quite frankly. I ‑‑ but be a little bit older than Easy Rock currently.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13662 As I had in my brief, there was a breakdown of a couple of days where I had listened. I had recorded the music, and then went back and checked when those songs were released. And the Easy Rock, their tendency was 50% of the songs had been recorded after the year 2000. So it was a very contemporary sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13663 We would fall somewhere in the middle between I think what the other proposals are proposing, and what Easy Rock is currently delivering now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13664 COMMISSIONER CRAM: So, you're saying as opposed to JOCO and Haliburton, who you believe would have higher median ages, that you have to skew younger in order to cover a larger part of the demographic. Is that ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13665 MR. WRIGHTSELL: I think that ‑‑ in order to ‑‑ if you're playing Frank Sinatra or Tony Bennett in heavy doses, I think you would have some trouble. What we're proposing is ‑‑ those artists will be played ‑‑ but I think you're gonna hear a lot less of them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13666 In that way, I think we have a better chance of surviving, from an advertising standpoint. We still, at the end of the day, have to be attractive to advertisers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13667 So we certainly will deliver music for people who are older that, you know, would like to hear the Tony Bennett's and the Frank Sinatra's, but also, we're looking at a wider appeal as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13668 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm. And you're looking for ‑‑ if I've got it ‑‑ if I understand correctly ‑‑ sort of another Big Daddy, is that the idea?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13669 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Well ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13670 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Because the Big Daddy format is ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13671 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Big Daddy's pretty high energy and I don't think that's the kind of station we're proposing here.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13672 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13673 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Ours, you can have it on in the evening, in the background, and it wouldn't scare you. You wouldn't have explosions and crazy splitters running in between the songs. We would have a very smooth sounding format. And more refined.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13674 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13675 MR. WRIGHTSELL: And they're very 80's and 90's based in their programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13676 COMMISSIONER CRAM: What about the ‑‑ have you looked at the percentage of duplication with any presently licensed stations of your music?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13677 MR. WRIGHTSELL: That's a good question. I did take that into account when I did the music samples. On two occasions actually, I submitted two hours of programming. Many of those artists you don't hear on Sudbury radio apparently. I would say ‑‑ somewhere between ‑‑ when I say that ‑‑ 40 to 50o% of them are not being played on Sudbury radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13678 COMMISSIONER CRAM: So it would be a 50% duplication of what's in the market already?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13679 MR. WRIGHTSELL: I don't know if you would say duplication. I'm saying by artist, so I would say 50% of the artists you will not be hearing on Sudbury radio. The other 50% you will, but you might not be hearing the kind of songs that we'll be playing, that's in our format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13680 COMMISSIONER CRAM: That's in your format, m'hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13681 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Divine Brown ‑‑ a lot of her work is not ‑‑ mainstream type music that you can just play, but yet, she has certain songs that would fit the perfect ‑‑ fit the format perfectly, so, you know, we have to be mindful of that. And that it flows well with the programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13682 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yeah. And I think you said you were only gonna have about 10% of music from the 60's. Is that the same as we call hit material, and the hit material ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13683 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13684 COMMISSIONER CRAM: ‑‑ policy that you can ‑‑ 49.9% max. Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13685 MR. WRIGHTSELL: I'll have to be mindful of that, yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13686 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yeah, but it won't be a problem with only 10%.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13687 MR. WRIGHTSELL: It won't be a problem with 10, no.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13688 COMMISSIONER CRAM: No, and ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13689 MR. WRIGHTSELL: It might be a problem for the others.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13690 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yes, I don't know. And 40% Cancon. Is that the broadcast week?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13691 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Over the broadcast week, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13692 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay, and it would be of course ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13693 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Which would be 6:00 a.m. till ‑‑ well, actually 6:00 a.m. till I guess 5:59 a.m.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13694 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13695 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13696 COMMISSIONER CRAM: You're gonna be playing jazz and blues, and you're gonna be playing instrumentals. How much jazz and blues?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13697 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Whereabouts did I say that, I'm just curious.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13698 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Oh my God, you're gonna ask me to do this ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13699 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Sorry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13700 COMMISSIONER CRAM: I ‑ you're not ‑‑ okay ‑‑ let's start this way ‑‑ you're not going to be playing ‑‑ are you going to be playing instrumentals?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13701 MR. WRIGHTSELL: On occasion. It's a very small percentage of what we're proposing. Five per cent. In the surveying that we did also, instrumentals came up very low at 40% acceptance.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13702 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13703 MR. WRIGHTSELL: So, you know, that would be a low priority.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13704 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yeah, and you're aware that we've got now the 20% ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13705 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13706 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Cancon requirements.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13707 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13708 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm. And then you did talk about Diana Krall. And she's normally jazz. You're not planning on doing much jazz.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13709 MR. WRIGHTSELL: No.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13710 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay. And again you're aware of the 20% requirement now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13711 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13712 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13713 MR. WRIGHTSELL: But there is some wonderful jazz out there, and some of it might fit the format on occasion. Like Diana Krall.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13714 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13715 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Very mainstream.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13716 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yeah, depends on her format. M'hmm. And can I get this right ‑‑ all of these different types of music that you're gonna be playing, are you gonna day park, or are you gonna put them all together, or how you gonna do it?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13717 MR. WRIGHTSELL: The flow of the station will be consistent throughout the programming day. The ‑‑ I don't think I wanna get into block programming, where you have a certain sound in the station in the morning, and then a different sound in the evening. I think the flow of the station and the feel of it should be the same throughout the day, so there's no surprises when anyone punches into it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13718 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm, okay. And then voice tracking. In the application, you said you would be doing 8:00 to midnight.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13719 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13720 COMMISSIONER CRAM: And in January of this year, you said you'd been doing 6:00 to midnight. What is it?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13721 MR. WRIGHTSELL: 6:00 p.m. to midnight.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13722 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13723 MR. WRIGHTSELL: I think in the initial application, I did have a cut off at 8:00 p.m. I would say 8:00 p.m. because we were gonna do ‑‑ the morning show host would be from 6:00 til 10:00, middays would be from 10:00 til 3:00, and then from 3:00 til 8:00 would be the afternoon person, and then we would do voice tracking from 8:00 til midnight, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13724 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay. And what are you gonna do after midnight?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13725 MR. WRIGHTSELL: After midnight would be the flow of the same type of programming. And there would be I.D.'s that would be run, splitters, if you will, that would present the music. And in the case of the emerging artists, where we were talking about the flag waving favourites, where we give a little more background material, those would be recorded pieces, and they would flow through the overnight hour quite nicely.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13726 COMMISSIONER CRAM: H'mm, okay. Now, you've talked about your news, and at some point I saw something about that you did ‑‑ did you not commit to do a certain amount of local news? In terms of local, as opposed to regional and national?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13727 MR. WRIGHTSELL: There were breakdowns, I think it was 40, 40 and 20.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13728 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13729 MR. WRIGHTSELL: 40 local, 40 national, and 20 international.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13730 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm, and is that on your news, or the broadcast news?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13731 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Well, a lot of that news would be provided by services that we would source, but our news presenters would present that ‑‑ the news.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13732 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13733 MR. WRIGHTSELL: They would present it in a four minute newscast, some local, some international, some national as part of that flow and that breakdown.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13734 COMMISSIONER CRAM: As opposed though, to the Broadcast News, which it appears you're just gonna be taking straight from Broadcast News?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13735 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Right. On the late hours, yes. I believe it was evenings and overnights, and there were some weekend hours. We were going to offer live news between 10:00 and 4:00 ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13736 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13737 MR. WRIGHTSELL: On Saturdays and Sundays. So Sunday and Saturday morning and in the Saturday from 5:00 p.m. onwards would be Broadcast News.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13738 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm, and so when you're talking news, what about sports and surveillance? Is that in the package, or is ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13739 MR. WRIGHTSELL: It's not actually. I've stayed really focused on presenting news in our proposal. I think that that's the largest deficiency in the market. I think we can be very successful as a news operation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13740 I know I have a friend that works at CBC and he tells me all the time that they do surveys that whenever anything important happens, you know, whenever there's a major disaster, or whatever ‑‑ a big news story ‑‑ the CBC's ratings go right through the roof. Because people depend on the quality of their news coverage. Which I think we want to become known as the station that you can depend in Sudbury for excellent news coverage.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13741 If there's an event, or something that's happened, or something, you know, locally that's gone on, that's very important to people, they will know, that if they tune in, they will hear it on our station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13742 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13743 MR. WRIGHTSELL: And you know, we'd be willing of course to break into regular programming in a case like that where it was something, you know, very important.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13744 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13745 MR. WRIGHTSELL: And we'd have the means to do it, because we have a strong local news team.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13746 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yeah. M'hmm. I thought ‑‑ and I may be wrong ‑‑ I thought our new policy talked about local programming including sports, and mandated sports.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13747 MS DIONNE: Correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13748 COMMISSIONER CRAM: So, you might want to look into that a little further.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13749 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Was that in the latest ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13750 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13751 MR. WRIGHTSELL: ‑‑ documentation in November?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13752 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yes. No, in ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13753 MR. WRIGHTSELL: In December.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13754 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Where is the policy?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13755 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Months are flowing together.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13756 COMMISSIONER CRAM: December, yeah, m'hmm. And you gave us a little more information about the local events in terms of the ten minutes per day for community groups. How's that gonna be done, like are they gonna come in and you're gonna say, okay, talk for five minutes, or something, or ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13757 MR. WRIGHTSELL: No, they will ‑‑ each groups going to have an opportunity to draw from a pool of radio spots that we are leaving aside for them. So each broadcast day, there would be ten minutes, or twenty 30‑second commercials that would be logged between 6:00 a.m. and midnight, that will ‑‑ they can put whatever message on the air that they want in that 30 second commercial.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13758 So, you know, if there's a blood doner clinic, or something like that that wanted to let the public know about, then we would create the 30 second commercial for them, and run it at no charge.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13759 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm. And, in terms of local entertainment news, where would you have that, or would you have that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13760 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Local entertainment news would be left to the announcers. If they ‑‑ in the part of their flow ‑‑ said you know, Tony Bennett's featured tonight on a program on PBS, you might want to catch it at 8:00, that would be fine, that would be part of the flow of the announcers show.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13761 But there would be no special, you know, at a certain time where you're gonna hear it ‑‑ entertainment programming. We wouldn't slot something special for that, but it would happen, ongoing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13762 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm, okay. We've cleaned up your CCD, it appears, now the Starmaker, which is through the schools, and are you gonna give one each, one each year, you're gonna give half to ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13763 MR. WRIGHTSELL: To each School Board.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13764 COMMISSIONER CRAM: There's Rainbow, there's the Rainbow School Board, and ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13765 MR. WRIGHTSELL: The Sudbury Catholic School Board.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13766 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yeah, and so, what is the idea, you hand over the money, and the school chooses?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13767 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Right. They would ‑‑ you know ‑‑ I'm not sure how involved they want to get in that, but I'm hoping that they will find out from the music teachers, who, you know, is the most promising student is in each school, nominate them, and then maybe there's a committee formed within the Board to check out each of the nominees. And then decide from there who would receive the bursary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13768 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay. Could you possibly provide for us a letter from the schools ‑‑ School Boards ‑‑ showing compliance with the new policy on CCD.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13769 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13770 COMMISSIONER CRAM: In other words, that you don't do the choice, you don't hand the cheque over, you hand the cheque to the School Board, who then hands it ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13771 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Okay. It needs to be done like that? Right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13772 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13773 MR. WRIGHTSELL: I could do that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13774 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay, good. Moving on to economics, and by the way, I'm very close to the end. You've had a very thorough presentation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13775 You're projecting a 10% share of audience. And that's a fairly large number. Can you tell me how you ascertained it?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13776 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Well, in the Sudbury market, there's only four commercial radio stations operating. And for the ‑‑ I'm not sure whether I put the CBC's share in that breakdown or not. I don't know if you have it in front of you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13777 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Well, I've got CBC, and this is your data. Radio One at 11.7 ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13778 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13779 COMMISSIONER CRAM: (inaudible) and your projection was 9.6. Is that what you were referring to?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13780 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Yeah. I ‑‑ I wasn't sure whether CBC was in there, so ‑‑ so that's part of the breakdown. I think that's a reasonable number. We're not ‑‑ this is gonna be a long haul to build audience, and turn the station into something over time, and I think 10% is a reasonable number to come on the air.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13781 We're going to be promoting quite extensively in the market. I think people that like the kind of music that we're proposing will find the station, and I think that there's enough of them ‑‑ and there's enough of a programming hole in the market ‑‑ to succeed with that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13782 And 10%, I think we're still below what CIGM apparently has.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13783 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13784 MR. WRIGHTSELL: The country station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13785 COMMISSIONER CRAM: So you didn't do any economic studies, and then discount the interest, and do it on an economic basis. You just sort of picked a number ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13786 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Well, yeah it was done on my gut feel and experience, and where I think a station ‑‑ and similar stations in the country ‑‑ would fall, when up against these other formats.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13787 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Well, and maybe I'm wrong ‑‑ I thought you said this was a made in Sudbury music format. So ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13788 MR. WRIGHTSELL: It is, there's certainly different variations of it, across the country.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13789 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Oh, okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13790 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Some ‑‑ yeah ‑‑ some adult contemporary stations are very contemporary, other ones are skewing certainly older, and playing more older selections. So there are a few in the country.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13791 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm, okay. And the 10%, when would you obtain that. I can't remember.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13792 MR. WRIGHTSELL: When will we attain the 10% audience share?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13793 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yeah, when was the plan.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13794 MR. WRIGHTSELL: I think we would probably get that right off the bat actually.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13795 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13796 MR. PLUNKETT: Madame Commissioner, it's obvious Sudbury is quite isolated, and there's very little spill in from other stations outside the market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13797 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13798 MR. PLUNKETT: Which is an influencing factor to compare to if you were in southern Ontario.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13799 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm, m'hmm. Yeah. And you propose to ‑‑ that your year revenue, 28% of it would come from existing stations. Which stations?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13800 MR. WRIGHTSELL: I think it was mentioned a few times, actually, that probably the closest format that exists in the market currently is Easy Rock. So I think that the number would probably be ‑‑ come from there moreso than the others that are operating currently.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13801 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay, you wouldn't take away from the country, you don't think?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13802 MR. WRIGHTSELL: I think a country listener likes country music, and ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13803 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yeah, okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13804 MR. WRIGHTSELL: They'll probably stay there no matter what.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13805 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Now the LSA has gone it's way. How do you think that has impacted the market, and how would that, or would it, impact your projections?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13806 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Maybe ‑‑ lead me a little more on what kind of answer you're looking at ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13807 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay. The LSA was in effect until May of ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13808 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13809 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Last year. As a result of it's termination, have rates come down, because you were saying it was very hard to get into the market, and therefore, there was some ability to maintain rates. And if rates have gone down, what would that do to your projections?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13810 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Well I think certainly the market's more competitive now that you have to use sales forces distinctively out there selling. And I think new revenues for radio are, you know, generated by having more sales people out on the street, and I think if we were licensed, and you know, we had a sales force out there as well, I think it would generate new dollars to radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13811 And ‑‑ so I'm not sure that it would depress the rates, or bring them down. I ‑‑ the rates are very strong in Sudbury, absolutely. And it probably does have a lot to do with the marketing agreement that went on. But I don't anticipate anything's gonna happen with the rates. I think that part of the problem ‑‑ well, not a problem ‑‑ is trying ‑‑ in trying to acquiring spots, is it's hard to buy spots because there are so few radio stations to choose.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13812 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13813 MR. WRIGHTSELL: You know, that's part of the problem as well. So that drives the rates up as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13814 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13815 MR. WRIGHTSELL: So I'm not sure it's so much the agreement, as just the lack of availability of air time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13816 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay. Emerging artists. The COL is 15% of the 40% Cancon that you will play?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13817 MR. WRIGHTSELL: I'm sorry, the COL?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13818 COMMISSIONER CRAM: The condition of license ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13819 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13820 COMMISSIONER CRAM: ‑‑ on emerging ‑‑ I'm sorry I started to speak ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13821 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Well, sorry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13822 COMMISSIONER CRAM: ‑‑ acronym. On emerging artists, the condition of license that you have agreed to, is that you will pay 15% emerging artists, as defined by the CAB ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13823 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13824 COMMISSIONER CRAM: ‑‑ out of ‑‑ of, not out of ‑‑ of your 40% Canadian content.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13825 MR. WRIGHTSELL: That's correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13826 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay. It also seemed to me you had some other ‑‑ what may be more practical things with emerging artists ‑‑ and that was in your programming. Where did I see that? And in sort of promotion of the station and that issue. I guess I didn't see it. We do get mixed up ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13827 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Is that the flag waving favourites ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13828 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13829 MR. WRIGHTSELL: ‑‑ and the ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13830 COMMISSIONER CRAM: But that is part of the ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13831 MR. WRIGHTSELL: ‑‑ the newest land claim ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13832 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yeah, that is part of the 15%, isn't it?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13833 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13834 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13835 MR. WRIGHTSELL: I just think that if you're going go put those artists out there, you have to help them, and you have to help the listener accept them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13836 COMMISSIONER CRAM: M'hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13837 MR. WRIGHTSELL: By spending some time letting them know about those artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13838 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yeah. I think that's all my questions. Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13839 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13840 COMMISSIONER CRAM: Madame Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13841 THE CHAIRPERSON: Vice‑Chairman Arpin.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13842 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Thank you Madame Chair. While you were ending on the emerging artists, I may start with some questions in that area first.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13843 I'm sure that you have read the submission made by the CAB in this proceeding?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13844 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13845 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Obviously ‑‑ and I understand from your earlier answer that you were ready to accept the condition of license ‑‑ the definition ‑‑ not the condition ‑‑ but the definition given by the CAB for regarding the notion of emerging artists, but in their submission, the CAB is also saying that it might not fit ‑‑ it's not necessarily one size fit all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13846 The definition that they have agreed on ‑‑ at least their members have agreed on ‑‑ and that ‑‑ are you sure that the definition that you've agreed, fits the format that you are contemplating?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13847 MR. WRIGHTSELL: It's ‑‑ it might be a challenge at certain times, and they sort of raised that ‑‑ that there's, you know ‑‑ that they don't have control over the music industry, and ‑‑ but having said that, there's an awful lot of people now who can very cheaply deliver CD's to radio stations looking for air play, that have no representation by record companies.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13848 The independent artists that exist in the country, it's staggering. If you think you're a singer, you can get some studio time, and you can have a CD produced for a couple thousand dollars. And of reasonable quality now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13849 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: ‑‑ and
LISTNUM 1 \l 13850 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Not like it used to be.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13851 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: And until now not being able to have any air play.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13852 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13853 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: But what you're saying is that with more straight definition then that may open up fortunately for them to get air play.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13854 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Yeah, that's true.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13855 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Is EDS measuring the Sudbury market?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13856 MR. WRIGHTSELL: EDS, I believe they do.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13857 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Because I know that they're not doing all Canadian markets, they're each and every month they're adding more and more locations, but ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13858 MR. WRIGHTSELL: I can't answer that definitely, not being within the industry of Sudbury.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13859 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: And the next applicant is someone that is already operating there, so we may have an answer to that question ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13860 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13861 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: So we'll check with them. So those were my questions regarding the emerging artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13862 I have a question for Dr. Dignan. In your representation, you added something about the Metis population, saying that they are a significant population is Sudbury, and around Sudbury, except that in your oral presentations, you were saying that the programming that you are personally contemplating doing will be directed to the First Nations. And we know that aboriginals are defined by being Metis, First Nations, and Inuit. But why have ‑‑ are you contemplating doing something specific for the Metis, or you're saying that First Nation and Metis are quite an alike community?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13863 DR. DIGNAN: No, culturally they're significantly different. However, their health issues are very similar.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13864 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Sure.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13865 DR. DIGNAN: And I would hope that we would be able to indicate that these are particular problems within those various cultural groups. And also ‑‑ it would also include ‑‑ the people of Sudbury as a whole. If you were able to see the news this morning, we have 25% our children are now overweight. 50% of First Nations children are overweight, which is a huge contribution to diabetes. However, it also contributes to high blood pressure, strokes, and a myriad of other problems.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13866 So, like public health has reduced the amount of smoking in this province, and in this country by approximately 22 ‑ 23% in the last 26 years. If we had the same kind of sustained public health program, or programming that would reduce obesity, we would deal with a myriad of other issues as well. And I hope that answers your question.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13867 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: But, Mr. Wrightsell, because you're gonna have some programming coming from AVR, newsclip and also the whole nation news. Will they be covering Metis concerns, other than the First Nation concerns?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13868 MR. WRIGHTSELL: I believe it's in AVR's programming currently.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13869 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Yes, but ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 13870 MR. WRIGHTSELL: So those would be addressed in the five minute newscasts that we will be running.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13871 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Yes, but the reason ‑‑ Dr. Dignan raised my attention to the Metis concern by his ‑‑ the sentence that he added to his oral presentation. Now, AVR obviously has the aboriginal voice network, but that being said, to my knowledge, most of their programming, if not all of their programming is dedicated to ‑‑ more than likely ‑‑ to the First Nations people.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13872 So my question to you is are you, over and above what has been said so far, contemplating any specific thing for the Metis community?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13873 DR. DIGNAN: I would certainly be communicating with the Metis community in Sudbury to ask them what their particular health concerns are and this would also be presented during the program.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13874 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Mr. Wrightsell, through your home background, and I think you have tried to purchase time in the Sudbury market, and being knowledgeable about ‑‑ I will say probably all the Ontario markets from a media buying perspective ‑‑ how many new radio stations do you think the Sudbury market will sustain?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13875 MR. WRIGHTSELL: I think when you look at the growth in the market currently, Sudbury has a bit of catching up to do. This ‑‑ the market I think grew last year almost 10% I think was the number. Which represented I think about $900,000, which would be on the high end I think of what anyone came in here today with on their first year projections.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13876 So I think that Sudbury certainly would easily absorb one operator and possibly two.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13877 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Madame Chair, those were my questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13878 THE CHAIRPERSON: Legal counsel.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13879 MS DIONNE: Hello. I have three questions. I just want to clarify that you agree that your over and above commitment of $103,700 be imposed as a condition of your license.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13880 MR. WRIGHTSELL: $103,700?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13881 MS DIONNE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13882 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Yes, that's correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13883 MS DIONNE: I would also like to clarify your commitment to devote 40% of Category 2 music to Canadian content. Does this commitment apply to the period of 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. during the week, and for the entire broadcast week?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13884 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13885 MS DIONNE: You mean, 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. from Monday to Friday, and for the entire broadcast week?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13886 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Yes, that's correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13887 MS DIONNE: And I would like to clarify the letters that we would like from the school boards. If they could confirm that the funds would be spent in the manner consistent with the Commission's policy, the Commercial Radio Policy that came out on 15th December, 2006. And if you could do this by the 13th of April. It gives you two weeks, considering that we have Easter period in that. And if you could copy all the applicants.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13888 MR. WRIGHTSELL: I'll agree to that, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13889 MS DIONNE: Thank you very much. Madame Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13890 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Wrightsell, this is your opportunity to tell us, to summarize your application and to tell us why it's the best use of the frequency available.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13891 MR. WRIGHTSELL: Well, as I discussed, I'm planning on locating to Sudbury, and being a part of the fabric of the community. I understand your dad was a tailor.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13892 MR. WRIGHTSELL: That's from yesterday. You know, its' been about ‑‑ like I said ‑‑ it's been twenty ‑‑ by the time the license is granted, I guess for someone if you choose to do that, it's gonna be about 27 years since Sudbury had a license.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13893 So it does have some catching up to do, and we think that ‑‑ you know I've been there on several occasions ‑‑ I've talked to so many people.
The dead of winter, and in the heat of summer. And you know, we've put a lot of research into our proposal, and put a lot of effort into it, and tried to really address in our application, the deficiencies that exist in the market right now. That we sight that exist.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13894 And you know, I'll go back to those four pillars again. The local news coverage being so important. Non‑profit public service support. First Nations programming, including AVR news in prime time. And strong benchmarks for local talent development by a relatively small player. I think we've put forth significant dollars for that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13895 We're really going to provide a good old‑fashioned radio station here where it's a part of the community, and people can depend on it. And with a large complement of employees that can carry it out, and carry out a task and put an excellent station on the air.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13896 If you build it, they will come. And I'll leave you with that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13897 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, thank you, and thank you to all your colleagues this afternoon. Madame Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13898 THE SECRETARY: We will now proceed with Item 15 on the agenda, which is an application by Newcap Inc. for a license to operate an English‑ language FM commercial radio programming undertaking in Sudbury. The new station would operate on frequency 101.1 Mhz, Channel 266B, with an effective radiated power of 50,000, non‑directional antenna, and antenna height of 120.9 metres.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13899 Appearing for the application is Mr. Rob Steele, who will introduce his colleagues. You will then have 20 minutes to make your presentation. Thank you.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
LISTNUM 1 \l 13900 MR. STEELE: Okay, thank you very much. Well good afternoon, Madame Chair, Vice‑Chairs Arpin and French, members of the Commission, and Commission staff.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13901 I'm Rob Steele, President and Chief Executive Officer, Newcap Radio. Before we begin our presentation, I would like to introduce our team.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13902 Seated to my immediate left is Glenda Spenrath, Newcap's Director of Operations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13903 And next to Glenda, is Mark Maheu, Executive Vice‑President, Chief Strategist for Newcap.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13904 Next to Mark is the Management Team that provides great radio to Sudbury on CHMO FM, known as Big Daddy, 103.9.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13905 First, is Wendy Watson, who acts as both General Manager and General Sales Manager of the station. Wendy has worked in radio and television in northern Ontario for over twenty years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13906 Before coming to Newcap, Wendy was General Sales Manager at CTV in Sudbury. She is involved in the many community organizations in Sudbury.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13907 Next to Wendy, is Rick Tompkins, the Program Director and Operations Manager of Big Daddy.
Rick has called Sudbury his home since 1981, and he was educated there. He has worked for CHNO for almost twenty years, under four different ownership groups.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13908 Next to Rick is Carrie Ann Tantalo, the News Director of the station. Carrie Ann was born and raised in Sudbury.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13909 She has worked in radio news in northern Ontario for ten years, and she was recently recognized by the Laurentian Publishing's Forty under Forty in Sudbury.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13910 We are here today to present our application to bring top 40 radio back to Sudbury. We know this format well, as we once offered it in this marketplace, but we were unable to continue as a stand alone station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13911 This format is focused on a new hit music, serving a younger audience of teens and adults under 35 years of age.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13912 Newcap has a good deal of experience serving younger audiences, with CHR, urban CHR, and alternative rock stations in markets as different as Ottawa, St. John's, Newfoundland, Edmonton, as well as in Sudbury.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13913 We have achieved ratings and business success in all of these markets by reaching out to young listeners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13914 We also propose a significant contribution to Canadian content development, with much of it focusing on new local talent through involvement in the music curricula of the schools.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13915 I would now like to ask Wendy and our team to present our application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13916 MS WATSON: Thank you Rob. Good afternoon Madame Chair, and members of the Commission.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13917 I'm Wendy Watson, General Manager of CHNO FM, operating as Big Daddy 103.9 in Sudbury. I moved to Sudbury in 1988, and quickly came to adopt our beautiful city as my home. Sudbury is a northern Ontario magnet for education, health care, and of course, shopping.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13918 Despite some success in diversifying our economy, our fate is still very reliant upon resources, particularly nickel. While the price of nickel has been hovering just over $20 a pound for the past while, my colleagues in the business community in Sudbury remember when it was $5 a pound, or even less.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13919 We are enjoying a bit of an economic boom right now, and everyone in the town, from the Mayor to the Chamber of Commerce, to the Economic Development Corporation, to the nickel companies and their Unions, are cautiously optimistic for the short and medium term financial future.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13920 The Sudbury Radio market has evolved considerably since Newcap purchased CHNO FM from Haliburton in 2001.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13921 According to the CRTC's annual return information for the market, radio revenues have grown an average of 8.7% per year since 2001, with growth of 10.3% between 2004 and 2005. The 2006 PBIT margin of 25.3% is higher than both the Ontario and Canadian English radio averages.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13922 But we believe that the radio statistics don't reflect the reality of all radio operators in the City.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13923 One operator, Rogers, holds three licenses in the market. It's strong competitive position garners a much higher percentage of the revenues and profits in the market, than it's share of listening would seem to warrant. Rogers gets over 90% of the profits in the market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13924 We are here today to ask for a contemporary hit radio license. And a fair question for anyone would be: well, if you wanted that kind of station, why did you change format away from CHR?
LISTNUM 1 \l 13925 In a moment, we'll outline the research that led us to choose this format, but there is a business reason why a CHR station is not feasible as a stand alone, but will work in combination.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13926 If you look across the country, there are no smaller markets with stand alone CHR stations. And even in the larger cities, they are usually part of the station cluster.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13927 The reason is, that the audience the format attracts, is less desired by radio advertisers. They have less disposable income, although if you look at what my personal children spend, teenagers, they're big spenders of what they do have. And they're big users of other media.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13928 The most popular medium for reaching young people is television, followed by internet. But young people do listen to radio, and some advertisers do want to reach them. The difficulty for radio operators is to serve this audience segment while making it financially viable.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13929 Further, because Rogers three stations cover the main adult demographics, with the rock station covering off men 18 to 54, the Easy Rock station covering women in the same demographic, and their Country News Talk station covering older demographics, advertisers do not need to buy our stand alone station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13930 So, despite Big Daddy's large share of 25/54 tuning, 22% in the fall of 2006, we do not drive that same share of revenues. Our profit margins are well below the market average.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13931 CHNL worked well as a CHR station within a station cluster. As part of a local sales agreement with the three Rogers stations, CHNO was an attractive part of a larger four station buy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13932 But when the LSA ended, our margins contracted. We were a stand alone operator, with a format that focused on the least profitable segment of the listening audience.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13933 The combination of a less desirable audience with a strong competitor with multiple stations, meant that advertisers could, and did, easily buy around a stand alone CHR. Our only way of maintaining our revenue levels, was to change formats to classis hits.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13934 The only way that a CHR station can be viable in Sudbury, is to share infrastructure, and be part of a larger buy. With the addition of a station strong in the younger demographics to our classic hit station, that is a strong contender with both men and women from 35 to 54, we have a more competitive sales proposition.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13935 We chose the format based on three different sets of information. First, our knowledge of the success that CHNO FM had with the audiences as a CHR station, both in ratings and in audience reaction.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13936 Second, an analysis of the tuning trends in our market, and thirdly, format finder research by Mark Kasoff and Associates.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13937 I would now like to ask Rick Tompkins to tell you a bit about this choice, and the sound of the station that we propose to call "Live 101".
LISTNUM 1 \l 13938 MR. TOMPKINS: Thanks Wendy, and good afternoon, Madame Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13939 I am Rick Tompkins, and I am the Program Director of Big Daddy 103.9. I have spent my entire 20 year career in radio in Sudbury, and my wife and I are now raising our family in this community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13940 I was the Program Director for CHNO FM as a CHR station. The station was a rating success with our target audience, and was the most listened to station among teens, with far more hours tuned than the next nearest station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13941 Similarly, it was the most listened to station among adults 18 to 34 in both demographic groups. Females listened to it even more than males. And this is a music active that really does get involved in the station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13942 When we looked at the fall 2006 PBM results, and compared them to Canadian and Ontario averages, it became clear to us that the most underserved audience is the younger audience.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13943 We have attached a comparative chart to these remarks that demonstrates clearly those under 35 in Sudbury spend far fewer hours per week listening to the radio than the Canadian and Ontario averages for the same age groups.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13944 Conversely, those over 35 years of age in our market spend hours per week listening ‑‑ spend more hours per week listening to radio than the averages.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13945 More specifically, teens spend two hours per week less with radio than the averages would show. And those 18 to 34 spend 1.6 hours per week less, whereas 35 ‑‑ people 35 and older spend 2.3 hours more per week listening to radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13946 But to confirm what our experience and interpretation of BVM ratings told us, and to determine the exact format, we asked Kasoff Researchers to undertake a survey of the market. They interviewed a sample of 404 people in greater Sudbury, and tested their satisfaction with local radio, their interest in a music format, and their perception as to whether these formats were available in Sudbury.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13947 The research demonstrated clearly that it is the younger listeners who are least satisfied with their radio choices. The average satisfaction score with Sudbury radio on a scale of 1 to 5, was 3.5, where 1 was the least satisfied, and 5 was the most.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13948 Teens showed 3.1, those 18 to 24, showed a mere 2.6, and those 25 to 34, showed 3.3. Over 35 year olds were more satisfied. Those 35 to 44 showed 3.6, those 45 to 54, showed 3.7, and those 55 plus, showed 4.1. And those were a lot of numbers to digest, so we have a chart at the end of the remarks, showing them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13949 The fans of alternative rock, active rock, and CHR are the least satisfied. Kasoff provides a measurement of what they call percent of format void, which is the number of people who show strong positive interest in a format. That's 4 to 5 on a scale of 1 to 5, and who cannot name a station providing that format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13950 Kasoff's conclusion was that a CHR station with a mix of pop alternative and pop top‑40 would be the strongest format for a new station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13951 Live 101 will play a mix of pop and alternative designed to appeal to the music tastes identified in our research for Sudbury listeners predominantly under the age of 35.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13952 Because of this hybrid approach, Live 101 will draw more young men than CHR traditionally does, even though it will still skew more to females.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13953 The station will be fully focused on the musics, lives, interests and concerns of it's audience. The audience for CHR wants to interact with the station, by phone, by text messages, by e‑mail.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13954 Radio is but one of many media choices for them. They can download music to their cell phones, MP3 players, or both. Watch movies and play games in their play stations, text message their friends, or spend time chatting by instant messenger.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13955 To engage and hold their attention, Live 101 will have to have compelling program for them. Fun, with great music, programs about the music, and information and discussion relevant to their lives.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13956 We have developed a comprehensive schedule of special music programs, that will make the station a must listen.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13957 All of them but one will be locally programmed with the Canadian hit 30 being produced by Hot 89.9 here in Ottawa.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13958 Emerging artists need all the help that they can get to make their mark in the new Canadian music business.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13959 And CHR radio plays an important part of supporting new artists. This format plays more new music than probably any other format, particularly when it has a strong component of alternative rock.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13960 With 11% of our total air play going to emerging artists, this means that 1 in 3 of the Canadian musical selections that we will play, will come from these new talents.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13961 In a world with so many audio choices, we see high quality, local spoken word programming as a differentiating element of a radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13962 That is why in this application we have proposed to devote significant resources to news, talk, and information for our target audience.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13963 I would like to ask Carrie Ann Tantalo to outline this approach in our area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13964 MS TANTALO: Thanks Rick, and good afternoon.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13965 My name is Carrie Ann Tantalo, and I'm the News Director at Big Daddy 103.9. I was born, and I've lived most of my life in Sudbury, and now I'm raising my own family there as well. I'm very proud to be part of this application for a new radio station that will be in my home town.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13966 We propose to provide a significant package of news, information, and other spoken word programming on Live 101.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13967 Our listeners want current, local and relevant news and information. We've developed a complete and comprehensive plan to exceed their expectations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13968 Our service of news and information to our listeners will take two forms. 79 news casts each week, with regular news casts on the hour and half hour through morning drive, with news casts on the hour until 6:00 p.m.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13969 In all, we propose a total of just over six hours of news casts, of which 80% will be news. 75% of our weekly total will be local news.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13970 One feature of the non‑news portion of our reports, will be a strong emphasis on local high school, college, University and non‑professional sports.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13971 Now already we have an agreement with Laurentian University Varsity Athletics to give us quick access to their events, and we have agreed to give them an even higher profile.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13972 While our news casts stop at 6:00 p.m., our information to our audience will not. We will actively engage our audience with music and spoken word features throughout the evening, capped by our 11:00 p.m. nightly talk program from Sunday to Thursday.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13973 Sudbury Live at Eleven will be an innovative talk program, hosted by local young people, along with expert guests, to cover a wide range of topics.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13974 The program will be supervised and supported by our staff, and we will invite participation through telephone, through e‑mail, and through text messaging as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13975 The discussion will carry on from on‑air to our website as well, to encourage as much participation as possible.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13976 All of our announcers will be informed, they'll be passionate about the music and the lifestyle that our audience appreciates, whether it's the lighter side through celebrity gossip, or serious topics, such as drinking and driving, abuse through the internet, or technology updates.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13977 At Newcap we have a great deal of experience in serving younger audiences and we have in‑house expertise to meet their needs. For your convenience, we have attached two pages summarizing our commitments in spoken word and Canadian content and development.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13978 To outline our approach to Canadian content development, Mark Maheu.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13979 MR. MAHEU: Thanks, Carrie Ann. Newcap welcomes the CRTC's expanded approach to the development of Canadian talent and content, which puts a strong emphasis on the role of the national organizations, but also encourages on the ground initiatives to develop Canadian musical, spoken word, and journalistic talent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13980 We propose to contribute over one million dollars over the course of the first license term to Canadian content development. Our proposals are both for national initiatives and for locally based ones.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13981 On the national level, we propose to provide $210,000 over the first term of the license to factor. And $280,000 to the radio star maker fund.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13982 In both cases, we've asked them to earmark our contributions where possible to northern Ontario artists. We propose to devote over half of our contributions to local initiatives in and around Sudbury.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13983 First of all, we have developed a strategic partnership with Music and Film in Motion. Wendy Watson's long involvement in radio and television in Sudbury brought this to our attention, and we intend to work with this local affiliative factor to help fulfil their vision of developing the music industry throughout northern Ontario.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13984 With $20,000 per year in scholarships, and for a local music industry conference, $10,000 per year to support the use of Sudbury recording facilities, and $20,000 each year for the Northern Ontario Music Awards, we will provide a substantial lift to the music component of their activities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13985 And our efforts go well beyond this. To provide on‑air promotion and support, both on Live 101 and our existing station, Big Daddy, 103.9.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13986 We will also contribute $25,000 annually to be shared between the two Sudbury School Boards to support their music programs. $5,000 will be used to provide bursaries for ten worthy students to pursue their musical studies, while the remaining $20,000 will go to the purchase of musical instruments and other support for their music curricula.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13987 In all, we will provide $145,000 in CCD each year, that's over $1,000,000 over the first term of our license. This is almost three times the amount proposed by the next closest applicant.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13988 Madame Chair, and members of the Commission, we believe that we have presented an application that deserves to be licensed on its' merits. We intend to create a radio station for the most under‑served group in Sudbury.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13989 We will provide a home for new and emerging artists through air‑play and the promotion of their music on our station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13990 We will provide targeted innovative, and formative news and spoken word programming, every day.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13991 We will propose to devote $4.6 million over our first seven year license term for programming expenses. That's more than $1 million more than the next highest applicant.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13992 We propose $1,000,000 to the development of Canadian content development over the course of the license. And we will have a minimal impact on the other English language competitor in the Sudbury market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13993 Sudbury has a strong and diversified economy and can absorb our proposal. The addition of a second license to Newcap also permits us to provide a station targeting the most difficult audience to reach in radio, younger listeners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13994 The synergy stemming from our two station operation, will allow us to bring radio to our industry's future audience.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13995 We thank you very much for your time and attention and we would be pleased to answer any questions that you have about our proposals. And I would take the questions, and ask our team to answer them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13996 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Vice‑Chairman Arpin.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13997 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Thank you very much, Madame Chair, and all who come to this gathering. I will ‑‑ before going to my questions ‑‑ I will ‑‑ my first question will be directed to you Mr. Maheu, because it boils down from your presentation on CCD.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13998 Bottom of page ten, you're saying that you will be providing one million dollars over the term of the license. Obviously you won't be on air on day one of that license.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13999 And when I'm going on page 11, reading that you will be devoting more than one million ‑‑ you will ‑‑ again, you're saying over the course of the license. Are you saying that ‑‑ if we're granting you a seven year license, and then but ‑‑ you're on air only two years after the license has been granted ‑‑ you mean that you're gonna be spending that money over a five year period.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14000 Or are you ready to accept a condition of license that it's being carried over through seven years of operation, rather than the term of the first license?
LISTNUM 1 \l 14001 MR. MAHEU: Commissioner Arpin, you're right. We won't necessarily be on the first day. If we were awarded a license, it's gonna take us a little while to get on in Sudbury, although we can be on quicker than most, because we already do business there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14002 But our intention is that the money we've devoted to CCD will be spent over seven years in those $145,000 increments, so if by chance it took us a year to get on the air, we would have a one year carryover into the next term of license, for that million dollars to be spent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14003 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Okay, and you're ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 14004 MR. MAHEU: And we will accept a COL‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 14005 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: A COL stating that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14006 MR. MAHEU: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14007 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Well, we will first look at your proposed format, including emerging artists, then I will follow up on some questioning on local programming and spoken word, (inaudible) content development plan, and particularly the ‑‑ dealing with the (inaudible) of March 20th, 2007.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14008 We'll speak a bit about synergies and your distribution platforms, and finally, some business considerations. So we'll go over all the aspects.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14009 MR. MAHEU: It sounds pretty complete.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14010 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: With your permission. So to start with ‑‑ with the format ‑‑ and I think Mrs. Watson addressed some of the issues, or the concerns that the Commission have had while saying ‑‑ because you ‑‑ well, you're reintroducing in the market a format that you have vacated about two years ago.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14011 And I think you gave ‑‑ Mrs. Watson in her presentation gave a good rendition of the reasons why you have vacated that format. While you were part ‑‑ through the LSA ‑‑ you were obviously a significant partner in the LSA, and you offered ‑‑ you offered that demographic to the group because you were covering all the spectrum of ‑‑ of the local demographic ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 14012 Will there be ‑‑ mind you, differences ‑‑ between Live 101 and your former CHR Top 40 that you ‑‑ the former CHNO, or is it basically the same ‑‑ exactly the same thing that you're gonna be doing?
LISTNUM 1 \l 14013 MR. MAHEU: It's a good question, and I'm gonna preface my statements by saying I'm gonna ask Rick Tompkins to elaborate a little bit to give you a sense, but the short answer to your question, will Live 101 be different than the CHR that used to be on the air in Sudbury, and the answer is yes. It will have some significant differences.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14014 Those differences include the musical sound of the radio station, which Rick will explain is a bit of a hybrid CHR.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14015 Top 40 music as we all know, tends to change a lot from year to year. And the components of Top 40 are always the same. They're the most popular songs from all the different (inaudible) put into one format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14016 What's happening with CHR right now, is that it becomes very much more of a pop driven/pop alternative driven radio format, where when we were on the air in Sudbury, it was a very much a mainstream, Top 40 dance offering.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14017 So I'm going to ask Rick to talk a little bit about the specifics with that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14018 And the other significant difference that we're proposing in this version of CHR for Sudbury is a renewed, and more robust approach to spoken word, and news and information programming on the station this time around, than existed originally.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14019 So if I may, I'm going to ask Rick to talk a little bit about the musical sound, and how it's different from the last time, and then maybe he could pass it to Carrie Ann, and she could talk a little about the kinds of information and spoken word portions that will be quite a bit different than what we used to have.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14020 MR. TOMPKINS: Okay, thanks Mark. Obviously, as Mark said, you know, the audience has changed for the CHR audience. They definitely appreciate more combination of the pop mainstream, and the pop alternative that will be there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14021 So, rather than the kind of music that was on that radio station, you might find more a blend of Christina Aguilera, mixed in with Fallout Boy and Foo Fighters mixed in with Pussycat Dolls. Kind of thing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14022 As well, we've also got a huge aspect of this with emerging artists. There were no emerging artists back in the days of our contemporary hit radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14023 But this is a huge part that we would like to be a reflection of our community. We have a number of emerging artists within Sudbury that I've got to know through Music and Film in Motion that would definitely benefit from this.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14024 I can tell you that Johnny Williams, Shaun Clark, High Definition, and Backroads are four bands or artists that would benefit, and that would be able to be played on this pop mix with the alternative as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14025 And they're local Sudbury artists that are currently unsigned with major labels. So that would be an opportunity for them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14026 And as we stated in the opening, one out of every three Canadian artists would be in emerging. That's not something that was present before.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14027 As well, we are going to be a very live radio station for that time. With our announcers, we have to be a reflection of our audience. We have to keep them well entertained.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14028 We're up against MP3 players, and satellite radio these days, and we can't just put a music mix format on the air. We have to make sure that we have announcers that will reflect the audience.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14029 So therefore, we've got to have live announcers on the air. We are proposing to go 6:00 a.m. to midnight live, throughout the week, as well as 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. live on the weekends.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14030 And that is so that if there is something that happens in Sudbury, we can be responsive to it immediately. An immediate reflection of the community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14031 And to talk more about the differences that we're going to have in news and whatnot, I'd like to ask Carrie Ann to fill you in on that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14032 MS TANTALO: Thank you very much Rick. I think we've learned a lot, and we've had a lot of time to reflect on it as to what we were doing when we were Z103. We didn't have a lot of news when we were Z103, and I think our new station will be a lot different when it comes to that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14033 We're talking about 79 news casts a week, over six hours of news in a week, that we think we can ‑‑ we'll be able to, you know, look at what our audience wants, and we'll be able to develop some news casts that will be specific to what they are looking for.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14034 That ‑‑ you know, we'll educate them more as to what's going on in Sudbury, in their own community, and around the world as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14035 We will be expanding our news room, so we will have three full time news people in our news room that will be, you know, providing news and covering news for that demographic.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14036 And we're also proposing ‑‑ I'm very excited about a new program called Live at Eleven ‑‑ that will run five nights a week, and it will be an opportunity to talk about some of the issues facing ‑‑ you know, our demographic, and will also give them a chance and an opportunity to have their voices heard on our new station, Live 101.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14037 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Okay, we'll come back to news then later on, for more specific questions, but I appreciate your comment. You wanted to add something, Mrs. Watson?
LISTNUM 1 \l 14038 MS WATSON: Yes, thank you, Mr. Arpin. I just wanted to add that we will also have a live person in our facility 24/7, 365 days a year, which currently just isn't happening in the Sudbury market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14039 As part of our commitment to being live, we also recognize that sometimes news events are happening at 2:00 a.m., and if the police, for instance, phone a radio station because they have something important that they need to get out there, sometimes they ‑‑ the phone doesn't go answered.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14040 We're going to correct that in our market. This person will not be counted as a news person, but rather as an operator, and we already have an agreement with Cambrian College.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14041 As a matter of fact, Rick is sitting on the Broadcast News Media Advisory Committee and we view the opportunity to have an operator there in the overnight periods, as an opportunity to hire people that are just coming out of Cambrian Colleges program.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14042 Great entry level job, they do maybe a weather update over the course of the night, they answer the phones, maybe do a few calls, just make sure that if something is happening, we can be responsive. But, as you said, you're getting to the news piece a little bit later.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14043 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Just to qualify, that overnight person will be sharing his time between Big Daddy and Live 101?
LISTNUM 1 \l 14044 MS WATSON: Basically he will be. Think of him as an operations staff person, or you
LISTNUM 1 \l 14045 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Making sure that there is someone ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 14046 MS WATSON: Someone there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14047 MR. MAHEU: Updated forecasts overnight. Weather forecasts overnight. Basic things. We're gonna be voice tracked overnight on Live 101, but as Wendy said, I think it's important ‑‑ and this is something we re‑thought at Newcap corporately in many of our markets ‑‑ where the world is changing at an accelerated pace.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14048 And in a lot of our markets, we're maybe the only broadcaster in that market, or one of two.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14049 And in a lot of cases, there is nobody around. And things do happen. So, we've taken a look at it. It costs us money, but we think it's money well spent and will pay for itself over time. That there is some responsibility on our part, especially if we have two stations, that we can afford to put one person in that building, in the overnight period to be able to take the phone calls, answer questions, and provide service if it's needed, to the community at that time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14050 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: And Mr. Steele is ready to make that investment?
LISTNUM 1 \l 14051 MR. STEELE: Absolutely, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14052 MR. MAHEU: And to make a long story short, if I can, Mr. Vice‑Chair, the answer to your question ‑‑ this radio station is quite a bit different than the old CHR that was on in the market a couple of years ago.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14053 The one we had on was the basic model, this is the new upgraded, fully loaded version that can be delivered to the marketplace upon approval.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14054 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: Now that we have the Big Daddy senior staff with us today, you may be ‑‑ should be able to answer quickly to my next question ‑‑ what was prompted by your answer on Live 101, how much live programming do you have on Big Daddy, currently?
LISTNUM 1 \l 14055 MR. MAHEU: Rick, do you want to talk to that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 14056 MR. TOMPKINS: Sure. The live programming that we have ‑‑ I would like to say we have no syndicated programming on Big Daddy, but the live programming ‑‑ just give me a second to add up the hours ‑‑ and
LISTNUM 1 \l 14057 MR. MAHEU: Even if you just ‑‑ the day parts were live in the morning.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14058 MR. TOMPKINS: Yeah. Yeah, live morning show. Live afternoon drive show, and a live evening show. So essentially, there's a little bit of voice tracking in the mid‑day and a little bit of voice tracking at the late night, and that's it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14059 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: And late night, you mean the overnight, or during the ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 14060 MR. TOMPKINS: 9:00 p.m. until the morning show starts the next day.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14061 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: At six in the morning.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14062 MR. TOMPKINS: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14063 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: So you will have more live activity at Live 101 than you have currently at Big Daddy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14064 MR. MAHEU: No, if I can Mr. Vice‑Chair. The ‑‑ if we are granted a license for a second radio station, that changes the whole dynamic for us in the marketplace.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14065 Right now Big Daddy 103.9 is a stand alone radio station. So we're operating it as a stand alone, in a somewhat difficult business environment, you know.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14066 Things have changed since the sales agreement has gone away, and that's fine, and we've made our peace with that. And we've reinvested in the market, we've reconfigured our proposition to the listeners, and to advertisers, and we're trying to do it in a responsible manner.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14067 Even, you know ‑‑ with ‑‑ we've had to choose where we put our limited resources in that market with one radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14068 If we had that second radio station, it certainly brings some economies of scale into play that will benefit Newcap, not only on the Live 101 side, but also on the Big Daddy side.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14069 And so our anticipation is if we were to receive that second license, one of the benefits would be it would allow us the opportunity to do more live programming on Big Daddy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14070 We don't enjoy the prospect, or the idea of having to voice track some shows. Given the choice, we'd rather be live. We can do much more, we have a lot more flexibility, and quite frankly, we are able to deliver a better product to the marketplace.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14071 Financially right now, we're only doing the little bit of voice tracking we are doing in order to economize and to be able to put that money into more areas of prime time, like afternoon drive, and mornings.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14072 So if we have that opportunity to enjoy some economies of scale, some of it spills back over to 103.9.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14073 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: But that wasn't part of your reputation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14074 MR. MAHEU: No.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14075 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: But obviously, you have answered my question, so I am responsible for the questions that I am asking.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14076 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: It happens that the answer was covered much broader than what the question was aiming at ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 14077 MR. MAHEU: Well consider it a bonus question, and thank you for that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14078 COMMISSIONER ARPIN: The ‑‑ but I'm only saying it for the record, so that everybody understands that the ‑‑ you didn't use the (inaudible) ‑‑ well you used the (inaudible) ‑‑ rightly so, we'll say that to bona fide, but that wasn't something that was planned from my part, or from the part of the Commission.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14079 Now that I have your programming people also, what will ‑‑ it may be helpful to tell me ‑‑ what will be the proportion of music offering devoted in between the ALC and the alternative rock?
LISTNUM 1 \l 14080