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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS BEFORE
THE CANADIAN RADIO‑TELEVISION AND
TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES AVANT
CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION
ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES
VARIOUS BROADCAST APPLICATIONS /
PLUSIEURS DEMANDES EN RADIODIFFUSION
HELD AT: TENUE À:
Delta Regina Delta Regina
1919 Saskatchewan Drive 1919, promenade Saskatchewan
Regina, Saskatchewan Regina, Saskatchewan
November 2, 2006 le 2 novembre 2006
In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages
Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be
bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members
and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of
However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded
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either of the official languages, depending on the language
spoken by the participant at the public hearing.
Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues
officielles, les procès‑verbaux pour le Conseil seront
bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des
membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience
publique ainsi que la table des matières.
Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu
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Canadian Radio‑television and
Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des
Transcript / Transcription
VARIOUS BROADCAST APPLICATIONS /
PLUSIEURS DEMANDES EN RADIODIFFUSION
BEFORE / DEVANT:
Barbara Cram Chairperson / Présidente
Michel Arpin Vice-Chair, Broadcasting / Vice‑président, radiodiffusion
Rita Cugini Commissioner / Conseillère
Ronald Williams Commissioner / Conseiller
Joan Pennefather Commissioner / Conseillère
ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS:
Chantal Boulet Secretary / Secrétaire
Leanne Bennett Legal Counsel /
Lyne Cape Hearing Manager /
Gérante de l'audience
HELD AT: TENUE À:
Delta Regina Delta Regina
1919 Saskatchewan Drive 1919, promenade Saskatchewan
Regina, Saskatchewan Regina, Saskatchewan
November 2, 2006 le 2 novembre 2006
- iv -
TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE / PARA
SASKATOON - PHASE I
PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:
Harvard Broadcasting Inc. 1138 / 5721
Standard Radio Inc. 1196 / 5959
Touch Canada Broadcasting Inc. 1266 / 6272
Radio CJVR Ltd. 1311 / 6499
Aboriginal Voices Radio Inc. (AVR) 1385 / 6919
Saskatoon Radio Broadcasting Ltd. 1423 / 7103
Jim Pattison Broadcast Group Ltd. 1518 / 7515
SASKATOON - PHASE II
PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:
Regina, Saskatchewan / Regina (Saskatchewan)
‑‑‑ Upon commencing on Thursday, November 2, 2006
at 0830 / L'audience reprend le jeudi
2 novembre 2006 à 0830
5712 THE CHAIRPERSON: Order, please.
5713 Good morning everybody. It's a period of victory. Gainer has to sit in the stands and behave himself. Just wait, we have all winter to think about what we're going to do with Ralph the dog.
5714 Madam Secretary...?
5715 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
5716 Before we proceed to the next
application, I would just like to indicate for the record that Newcap has filed
last night their breakdown of ‑‑ their cost breakdown for
their CTD initiatives for both their
5717 We now proceed with item 18 on the
agenda, which is an application by Harvard Broadcasting Inc. for a licence to
operate an English‑language FM commercial radio programming undertaking
5718 The new station would operate on frequency 92.3 MHz (channel 222C1) with an effective radiated power of 100,000 watts (non‑directional antenna/antenna height 179.1 metres).
5719 Appearing for the Applicant is Mr. Bruce Cowie, who will introduce his colleagues, and you will have 20 minutes for your presentation.
5720 Mr. Cowie...?
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
5721 MR. COWIE: Thank you.
5722 Good morning, Madam Chair, members of the Commission, Commission staff. My name is Bruce Cowie and I'm the Vice‑President of Harvard Broadcasting.
5723 I am pleased to be here today to
present our application for The Zone, a new Youth Contemporary FM station
serving the growing the City of
5724 Before beginning our presentation,
I would like to introduce the members of our panel. Seated on my right is Michael Olstrom, our
station's group manager. Seated next to
Michael is Karen Broderick; Harvard's National Sales Manager. On my left is Daryl Holien, Harvard's
Director of FM Programming and Creative Services. Daryl has been in the radio industry for 30
years, having served in every facet of the business from on‑air to
production and programming. Seated next
to Daryl is Gary McGowan.
5725 In the back row, beginning on my
far right, is Debra McLaughlin of Strategic Inc., the company that did our
feasibility and consumer demand study.
Next to Debra is Rob Malcolmson, a partner at Goodmans LLP, our legal
counsel. Next to Rob is Tina Svedahl,
Vice‑President, Investments for Harvard Developments Inc., our parent
company. And on my left in the back row
is Paul Hill, President and CEO of Harvard Developments. Mr. Hill is one of
5726 Paul and I will first speak to you
about the importance of
5727 Karen will speak to the demand among advertisers for our proposed service and then Michael, Daryl and Gary will describe the station in more detail, including the kind of station it will be and the music that it will play. And I then will present our plans for talent development.
5729 MR. HILL: Thank you, Bruce.
5730 As the Commission knows, Harvard is
a regional broadcaster based in
5732 MR. COWIE: Members of the Commission, the Regina‑Saskatoon
corridor represents the economic lifeblood of
5733 We are committed to continuing our
history of community service and to investing in the communities we serve. But we cannot do it alone in
5734 The assistance you can and, in our
view, should provide, is a new licence in
5735 In recent years, we have
continually monitored the strength of the
5738 MR. OLSTROM: Thank you, Bruce.
5739 The economic future in
5740 The Conference Board of Canada
reports that retail sales grew by 10.7 percent between 2004 and 2005. To put this in context,
5741 In addition to a healthy economy,
5742 In our consumer demands survey, the majority of respondents in the 15 to 24 demographic, 56 percent, reported that there was little to listen to on the radio. Over three‑quarters of this group, (78 percent) said they would listen more if the music they liked were available and only 15 percent stated they were very satisfied with local radio.
5743 Coincidental with the clear expressions of dissatisfaction was a significant statement of interest in The Zone. Fully 83 percent expressed an intention to listen should the service be licensed.
5744 MS BRODERICK: Growth in radio advertising revenues is directly tied to growth in the retail sector.
5745 Multiple sources ‑‑ Conference Board of Canada, Financial Post Markets, the Region of Saskatoon and Provincial estimates ‑‑ all conclude that Saskatoon will experience real growth in retail sales and surpass both the regional and national projections, but it is the size of the youth market in combination with the current lack of service for this demographic that argues most persuasively for the success of The Zone.
5746 Advertiser interest in youth radio
exists at both local and national levels.
The opportunities for a youth service in
5747 Also noteworthy is that retailers
generally are confident that an independent radio operator will introduce much
needed competition to
5749 MR. OLSTROM: Thank you, Karen.
5750 Harvard recognizes the need to provide service to younger audiences to ensure radio's place in their media choices as they age. As we all know, there has been a general decline in youth tuning. We need to make radio relevant to a younger audience. Our Youth Contemporary Format will accomplish this.
5751 The Zone will offer the same cohesive listening experience as Adult Contemporary, but will be specifically designed to meet the needs of a younger demographic.
5752 Our research identified a large
variety of music and less repetition as being critical to developing
5753 MR. HOLIEN: One of the programming elements that was also
given great importance by the respondents to the Strategic study was
information programming. We know that
our listeners will want programming that speaks to them.
5754 In addition to 75 newscasts each week, The Zone will offer coverage of local, regional, university, and high school sports. Five times a day, we will broadcast the Entertainment ZONE, which will feature club and concert listings, all‑ages shows and other events that will interest our younger listeners.
5755 In addition to news, sports and
entertainment and feature programming, The Zone intends to offer other locally relevant
information programming to youth.
Through a unique information series we call Enrichment, we will help
listeners get to know their local community in a meaningful way. We will broadcast one‑minute Enrichment
segments throughout the programming day.
This segment will bring the city's rich cultural traditions into the
mainstream, making them relevant to younger listeners and facilitating cross‑cultural
5756 MR. McGOWAN: The Zone will be entertaining, interactive and original.
5757 Our feature programming will examine new trends and emerging talent across all genres that appeal to youth. The Indie ZONE, Saskatoon ZONE, The Urban Play ZONE, and The Canadian ZONE will become appointment‑listening for our listeners. Through our feature programs, The Zone will focus on a variety of genres; showcase local talent and promote emerging Canadian acts. We will offer a weekly countdown of top music; feature guest appearances by "Listener DJs", broadcast listener polls; and offer "instant messaging" between listeners and hosts.
5758 Of particular note is the special emphasis that The Zone will place on Canadian and regional Youth Contemporary artists not just through our commitment to offer 40 percent Canadian content, but also through the Canadian ZONE feature celebrating home‑grown talent from Saskatchewan and across Canada, with a special emphasis on new acts.
5759 The Zone will also support and
5760 Now that you have heard all about
The Zone, let's sample its sound and hear from the
‑‑‑ Video presentation / Présentation vidéo
5761 MR. COWIE: Members of the Commission, Harvard is
committing over one million dollars over seven years to foster Canadian Talent
5762 First, Discovery: Harvard will stage an annual high profile
talent search in the
5763 Next, Exposure and Support: The Zone will build on the exposure given to the artists over the course of the contest by producing and releasing a CD featuring two selections from each of five finalists. The CD will be heavily promoted locally and on‑air and copies will be provided to each of the artists. All profits from the sale of the CD will be split among the contributing artists.
5764 The Zone will also support local
music, education in
5765 Finally, Harvard will donate
$20,000 per year for seven years to a Local Broadcast Centre of VoicePrint
5766 MR. OLSTROM: Part of The Zone's commitment to
5767 MR. COWIE: Madam Chair and Members of the Commission, in closing, I would like to summarize why we believe The Zone fulfills the Commission's licensing criteria:
5768 Approval of this application will
bring diversity of programming and ownership to a market currently served by
just two owners, each with three stations.
This diversity will add a new voice to
5769 The Zone will offer 40 percent Canadian content and supply a Youth Contemporary format that is missing in the market and that responds to the high demand on the part of the youth demographic.
5770 We will promote the development of Canadian talent both on‑air and off through our feature programming and locally‑focussed CTD package of over one million dollars. In addition, our partnership with APTN will benefit all parties and help train a new generation of Aboriginal reporters.
5771 And, finally, granting our
application will strengthen an independent broadcaster that has done business
5772 Thank you for your time and attention. We are pleased to answer any questions and Michael Olstrom will act as our quarterback. Thank you.
5773 THE CHAIRPERSON: I'm happy to know that Louis is probably still around.
5774 Commissioner Cugini...?
5775 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank you, Madam Chair.
5776 Mr. Cowie, Mr. Olstrom, colleagues, welcome back to I guess it's round three; different, city, different round. Hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised at how few questions I have. It's an absolute reflection on obviously the quality of your application, as well as your presentation this morning, but I will start with format. Pop, Urban, Modern and Alternative Rock. I can appreciate that in a larger market this may be three or even four different radio stations. Why are you so confident that the blending of these formats will create a radio station that the youth will want to listen to?
5777 MR. OLSTROM: Commissioner Cugini, first I'd like to say
we're very stoked about this format and opportunity to bring it to the youth
demographic or the youth of
5778 And I would like to turn to Gary
McGowan who can give you a little bit of insight into the format, the music,
and how it works, and how we believe this is going to work in the
5779 MR. McGOWAN: Well, the top‑line part of the answer,
Commissioner, is the fact that this is the way today's youth consume
music. One of the number one things that
if you talk to them, if you research them, that they will tell you, is they
like variety and they like new stuff and they like some push on it. They like some experimentation on it, so if I
can take a few minutes, I'll take you through some more detail on how Youth
Contemporary radio works, how we're going to put it together in
5780 Michael had referenced the charts we're going to draw from. As you said, in larger markets, you often have the population base to section it out a bit more. In fact, many recent licences have done just that in other parts of the country.
5782 So we'll draw music from the four major charts that have youth elements in them, Pop and Top 40. The various streams of Urban, which includes mainstream Hip Hop, Rap, Rhythmic CHR, Modern Rock and Alternative Rock.
5783 The fifth element is real, really important in this. Maybe it's the most important in connecting with the audience reflecting their interests and building their loyalty, and that is new artists and new music that has yet to appear on any chart. These are very inquisitive people. It's a generation that really likes new things and likes it in great frequency.
5784 That's certainly a message that as
we have dialogued with our audience in
5785 Now, in a bit I will ask Daryl Holien, keeper of the numbers around this to provide you with a breakdown of how this music would fit together if The Zone were launching today. When he does that, though, I want you to keep in mind that in a year from today, if we were on the air, it might be very different because our focus is on the audience. It's on these people and, as we said, the one thing that is predictable about them, is that their tastes are ever shifting and ever changing.
5786 Now, another message that we
received loud and clear was the Youth's audience dislike of excess repetition
and lack of variety, so The Zone will prominently feature new and emerging
artists. For example, in other areas,
existing stations in
5787 Now, we're excited at the prospects
for The Zone because the music the station is going to play, some of which you
saw in the video, is almost completely unavailable in
5788 The newly launched Z103.5 in
5789 And the final sort of the leg of the table, as it were, is The Zone spoken word programming. Spoken word and its relevance is a very important and key distinguishing element of a radio station like The Zone. We will be running less general talk and much more discussion of the music and the artists because it's very central to the experience of these people. It's an important part of their lives, which you witness every day in the ‑‑ essentially the trouble that they go to currently to find this music.
5790 I mean, you know, you got to spend some time to search it. I mean, there are even Internet programs, now, as you know, that if you like a particular genre or combination of genres, will go run the net and find a new band who has just put up a website that you can access and download. And I think we have an opportunity to, you know, help in that area. So talk about the music and the artists is important.
5791 Our on‑air delivery is going
to be entertaining and information rich with content that appeals to this
demographic because we're going to focus on topics relevant to the younger
5792 And the last point is another very
key component of the radio station. As I
was having my music related discussions with those who are active in the music
world in Saskatoon, I had a very telling conversation with one individual who
works within the scene because we were, you know, just talking about what do
you think about what's going on and such, and he said something that was of
great interest to me. He said, you know,
people do listen to the radio in
5793 So I think he ‑‑ he didn't use the word stoked. He used the word starved when he said, kids are really starved for cultural outlets in the city.
5794 So those are really some of the key
elements that distinguish the radio station and the reason that it's put
together is not because we think it's a good idea. It's because that is the behaviour and the
taste and the interest as young people today are displaying them. And we think if we reflect that, plug into
that, that The Zone is going to be very successful in
5795 MR. OLSTROM: If I can add to that as well. We know
5796 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Well, thank you for that thorough response. In light of you raising the issue of the demo, you are targeting perhaps one of the most difficult. We heard throughout the radio review that, in particular, the 12 to 17 year olds just ‑‑ radio is not part of their language, it's not part of their everyday habit. Is this the answer to bring that 12 to 17 year old back to radio?
5797 MR. OLSTROM: Well, we hope it's a portion of it. Harvard, as you know, has been before the Commission on a couple of occasions with a youth targeted format and we believe that it is vital and incumbent upon us to ensure that we are bringing back the future radio listeners and maybe I can turn to Debra McLaughlin to speak a little bit about this audience and their needs and wants and what's missing.
5798 MS McLAUGHLIN: Well, first I would like to say there is no panacea.
5799 We're not proposing that we found it, but we do know that music is a key driver and as much as iPods and the Internet offer them an opportunity to find the music, information is also important. And I was just reviewing some research that suggested that the uptake in satellite radio that was considered to be maybe an area of interest, despite the financial implications ‑‑ sorry, I think I'm catching your bug, I'll get that later ‑‑ has slowed down somewhat simply because there is a need also to have local information.
5800 And when I go out and do research ‑‑ and I didn't do focus groups in this market, but just recently I have been across the country doing focus groups in the youth format, local radio still has potential, but it is music that's the driver and, you know, if ‑‑ you know, if we could open up the spectrum, have unlimited stations, perhaps the best thing to do would be to have a station in every format, but ultimately that's not possible. And that's not how they're living. They would be flipping from station to station, making none of them really viable.
5801 So the way to look at this is to
try and put it together in the way they're experiencing life, in the way that
5802 And, you know, just so you know
there is a real live test, the Beat in Vancouver, which is a client of mine,
had a very narrow focus for several years.
They were licensed as Urban. They
stayed within that genre. They covered
all spectrums of those genres, all the sub ones that
5803 And you may recall in
5804 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank you.
5805 Do you see any overlap between this proposal and those of the other applicants and any overlap with any of the incumbent radio stations?
5806 MR. OLSTROM: There would be some overlap with the Rawlinson‑Hildebrand trust as they are proposing a CHR format. From what I understand of their application, CHR tends to be higher in repetition, tends to be a little bit older and demographic than what we are proposing.
5807 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And with any of the incumbent radio stations, do you see any overlap?
5808 MR. OLSTROM: There would be some overlap on the younger end with C95.
5809 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Okay.
5810 MR. OLSTROM: But as I mentioned, if you take a look at the median age of each station, it's considerably separated.
5811 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: So you see it as a minimal overlap on both ‑‑
5812 MR. OLSTROM: We went into the market and looked at the opportunities in the marketplace and we felt that an older demographic format, we looked at adult standards, and we felt that an older targeted radio station would impact the incumbents more greatly, and hence the choice of focusing on the youth demographic as well, as well as our belief in programming to that demographic. It was going to be the least impactful in the marketplace.
5813 MS McLAUGHLIN: If I could just add, one of the important
things, as I said before, is the music driving this, and
5814 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank you.
5815 Just one question of clarification
on your CTD commitments; $140,000 over seven years for the
5816 MR. COWIE: We have requested that one of those scholarships be available to an Aboriginal person; however, I must tell you that currently there are none registered in that particular program. Our intention would be to continue to offer the scholarships with the understanding that it will be used in part to attract Aboriginal persons to that program and would be used for that purpose.
5817 We have that undertaking from the department, but they also came back to us and said very clearly, we do not have any currently, and have not had for some years, but the University is trying to integrate Aboriginal students into some of these various programs and this one in particular. So we expect that during the term of this licence, at least, that direction will be followed through.
5818 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And it's not as if that scholarship won't be awarded if it's not to an Aboriginal student?
5819 MR. COWIE: Oh, no, the scholarships will be awarded. And the choice of the scholarship will be by the Department at the University.
5820 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank you.
5821 News and spoken word. You say 126 hours of local with no automated programming?
5822 MR. OLSTROM: That is correct.
5823 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And of that two hours and 32 minutes will be news, will be pure news?
5824 MR. OLSTROM: Pure news is two hours, 32 and a half minutes.
5825 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And is that news 100 percent local?
5826 MR. OLSTROM: The news will be approximately an 80/20 split, so in other words, 20 percent will make up International, National stories of that nature.
5827 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: In your application you say that the
5828 MR. OLSTROM: What we see as synergy here with news,
5829 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: So would those stories coming from
5830 MR. OLSTROM: No, that would be more ‑‑ I guess that would be more on the local regional side of things because it is impacting ‑‑ I mean, Regina, Saskatoon is almost local when we get down to it.
5831 MR. COWIE: Commissioner Gugini, this group is interested in what the Government does. They don't like a lot of it, but they're interested in what the Government does, so that we think is an important part of it.
5832 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Do you anticipate any other synergies with
5833 MR. OLSTROM: We do. I would like to turn to Tina Svedahl who can maybe speak to the synergies that we believe there are between the two operations.
5834 MS SVEDAHL: Yes, it's obvious with
5835 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: I think you also mentioned in your
application that there might be some synergies with your recently licensed
5836 MS SVEDAHL: Same type of synergies exist.
5837 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Same type?
5838 MS SVEDAHL: Well, definitely ‑‑ not so
much on the regional sales for
5839 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank you.
5840 Do you have an estimate of the percentage of advertising that you think would come from existing radio ‑‑ from the existing stations in the market?
5841 MR. OLSTROM: I would like to turn to Karen Broderick to speak a little bit about that and then maybe have Debra follow up with that.
5842 MS BRODERICK: We actually haven't broken it down into a
percentage, but what we do know that with the population growth of
5843 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: But you haven't broken it down between how much of that revenue would come from existing radio stations or how much would come from new advertisers?
5844 MS BRODERICK: We actually did do a revenue breakdown and that was ‑‑ existing would be 35 percent; new advertisers 30 percent; other media 20; and increased by just 15 percent.
5845 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Okay, thank you. How much of a challenge is it going to be for
you as a stand‑alone station in the
5846 MR. COWIE: Well, when we began to clearly define ourselves as being interested, for the most part, in the younger demographics because we believe that therein lies an opportunity and there also lies a challenge. Repatriation to radio is going to be difficult.
5847 But, you know, I have a
5848 And, quite frankly, I think radio
5849 We have thought these things through, we have talked to people. Our on‑street activity through Gary McGowan, for example, has been critical to our planning. Debra McLaughlin, who I think is the best market research person in the country, really has a handle on it. She knows the music better than most of the programmers do.
5850 So we're confident it is not going to be easy. We're showing a projected loss over the first seven years of this licence, but we think that investment will be returned over time.
5851 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Mr. Cowie and team, thank you very much. Madam Chair, those are all my questions, thank you.
5852 THE CHAIRPERSON: Vice‑Chair Arpin.
5853 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
5854 In the video we hear one youth's testimony saying that what he hates the most is advertising. And what are your plans to satisfy his feelings?
5855 MR. COWIE: There would have been a temptation to take that part out.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
5856 MR. COWIE: There is no question, if you ask 15 youth in a room, you're not going to get a unanimous decision for advertising, but I think if you give them something back for it, we can erase that reluctance. And the ‑‑ if we give them what they want, which is variety, new music, and people talking to them instead of over their heads, we think we can solve that problem.
5857 MS BRODERICK: If I can just add to that, we have scheduled, actually, only eight minutes of advertising per hour, which is actually, you know, on the lower end. And, in addition to that, just by the nature of our format and the advertisers that we're going to target, it's been researched that if you make the advertising relevant to the audience you seek to serve, the tune‑out factor tends to be less.
5858 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: I could understand that when you've got to launch the station, obviously, you will even have difficulties selling an average of eight minutes per hour, but if you were to be more successful than you expect, then will you be ‑‑ not be tempted to increase that eight minutes per hour to something more?
5859 MR. OLSTROM: Commissioner Arpin, let me speak just on a reference point to one of our radio stations here in Regina, The Wolf, which currently is the number 1 station 12 plus, number 1 station 2554. It runs eight minutes of commercials an hour. I'm a programmer at heart and we will not exceed that; the rates go up.
5860 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: And the
5861 MR. COWIE: We believe it is. There is an opportunity there and the ‑‑
and I guess what attracted us on another level is that
5862 But I think the pool is large
enough that even if there were those periodic downturns in Saskatoon, that
market share is big enough that we can survive in there; that there is a
business there that will sustain us through downturns. And also, as an extension with that, would
help in sustaining
5863 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: I'm sure that you have done various studies
to see what is the advertising ‑‑ radio advertising capacity
5864 MR. COWIE: I think the numbers you have been hearing are
pretty much what the reality is. The
marketplace provincially is ‑‑ or for the two major cities is
probably in the 36 million dollar area, and with the larger portion of that
5865 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: And, as you said earlier, your financials are showing that you will be losing money throughout the first licence term. Is it acceptable from a corporate standpoint for an organization of the size of Harvard and Harvard Development?
5866 MR. COWIE: I don't think Mr. Hill advocates losing money
at any time, but through the synergies north, south in the province, we will be
deriving new incomes from
5867 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: And if, for any given reason, the format
doesn't deliver to your expectation, will you be tempted to move it more
towards the centre and compete against the incumbent really to get a better
market share? You have the experience,
you're already a leader here in
5868 MR. COWIE: We don't like the consequences of changing format. We thought this through very carefully and I guess how I would answer this is in one word, we are patient, and this is going to take some time to grow, we know that, but we know the rewards are there if we stay the course and we would be very reluctant. It would take a long time of beating our heads against the wall before we would turn away.
5869 So we believe completely that this format will work and you can expect us to stay there and make it work.
5870 MR. ARPIN: And if the incumbents who are here today in the room and obviously have studied your applications back and forth, are, gee, there is a hole, we never saw it, and they were to start moving towards that hole, do you have an alternative plan if you were to be granted the licence?
5871 MR. COWIE: No, we don't expect they will go there, but if even if they do, they will be ‑‑ they will be dealing with a format, a group of people who are completed dedicated to that and not a piece of another format.
5872 So they would be unwise to make that choice, I would think, and if they did, we will take them on.
5873 MR. ARPIN: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Cowie.
5874 Madam Chair...?
5875 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
5876 Commissioner Pennefather.
5877 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
5878 Good morning, Mr. Cowie, ladies and gentlemen.
5879 I wanted just to pursue the discussion we have been having throughout the hearing on indicators for the capacity of a market to absorb a new station or not, and the impact on existing stations.
5880 My first question, just to see if I
understood your remarks this morning, that you list the indicators that we
would use to make that assessment, but you say the most critical element in
terms of viability is retail sales.
Other intervenors may, in this market and perhaps
5881 I think there may be three parts to this answer and I think I'll start with Debra McLaughlin.
5882 MS McLAUGHLIN: If I understand your question, you would like a ranking of the indicators in terms of the relevancy in this proceeding?
5883 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: You have already ‑‑ I believe these comments already ranked by saying this, "The most critical element would be retail sales," and I wondered why you said that.
5884 MS McLAUGHLIN: That comment would be made in regards to the very close relationship between radio broadcaster ability to generate revenue in the market, and there being availability in the market to support it, because retail sales, the lag time is three to 12 months in terms of reactions, generally, and radios, as I believe you heard yesterday, is typically the first of the media to be cancelled should there be any change in retail sales. And so if the retail sales sector is going to be growing, it bodes very well for radio advertising revenue. Radio has a shorter lead time, it's very local, it's portable. People ‑‑ it's almost a point of purchased material in the sense that people can be walking by a store, listening to the radio, and be dragged in because of a sale to be attracted to something.
5885 Because it has such entirely local aspects to it, and because it has immediacy to it, it means that retailers tend to use it more, and so if there is any changes in that retail environment, radio is the first impacted.
5886 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: And that would be the reason for the seeming ranking that you gave here?
5887 MS McLAUGHLIN: Yes.
5888 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: In looking at the way to analyze the markets,
I think in terms of
5889 MR. COWIE: One of them is the one we just talked about
at the levels of retail activity in the marketplace. The differences are
5890 The economic activity in terms of business leadership now is by and large in the Saskatoon area, somewhat based on the resource opportunities in the north and so on, but Saskatoon has proudly on its own built its way past Regina over time and as by design. I mean, they wanted to do that, so their whole focus has been to become the economic centre of the province.
5891 So population is part of it. Retail sales is one part of it. And I guess the other that you always have to measure is the retail plant and is it growing, is it strong enough to support a new station, so the two markets have divided; one is growing, one isn't.
5892 We would be quite happy if both
markets were growing equally and
5893 What we ask the Commission to do in the short term was to not issue a licence there, but to monitor it for a reasonable period of time. We are we ‑‑ do believe in competition and free enterprise and the need for, wherever possible, increased programming opportunities. And at that time, if those elements change, we would be delighted.
5894 MS PENNEFATHER: Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam Chair.
5895 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
5896 Here comes my normal question. Would you agree to a
5897 MR. COWIE: Yes.
5898 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
5899 I wanted to talk about
5900 MR. COWIE: That was in part at the root of that
discovery in our program schedule. I was
born and raised in
5901 I think we can promote within our listenership, you know, levels of respect; get the groups together, and make sure that we promote from the proper organizations that they have discovery opportunities from one culture to another and not ‑‑ not separately and totally for the Aboriginal relationships there, but largely for that, but for other reasons too.
5902 So we are cognizant of the issues and are dedicated through, in particular, this Aboriginal mentoring program for journalists. We don't have those voices. We don't have them producing the Aboriginal minute. We don't ‑‑ not yet, but we will. So we will look for outlets to both inform on what's going on in the marketplace and to provide opportunities for voices to talk about it; not in talk show formats or anything like that.
5903 MR. OLSTROM: Commissioner Cram, that leads to the ‑‑ sort of the Enrichment Program that we've designed, which is there to promote that.
5904 THE CHAIRPERSON: And can you describe it more fully for me?
5905 MR. OLSTROM: Excuse me, sorry? THE CHAIRPERSON: Can you describe it more fully, the Enrichment Program?
5906 MR. OLSTROM: I will turn to Daryl to speak to it a little bit.
5907 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thanks.
5908 MR. HOLIEN: Really, what the Enrichment Program is, an opportunity to look at the cultural traditions. It could be the venues around the city. It could be traditions of the Aboriginal people and that would be blended throughout ‑‑ throughout the program day.
5909 THE CHAIRPERSON: I was looking after Mr. Howe's report with
5910 MR. COWIE: They appeared for us at a hearing in
5911 THE CHAIRPERSON: That's how I know ‑‑
5912 MR. COWIE: So we know her.
5913 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
5914 MR. OLSTROM: I would like to have Gary McGowan maybe speak
to that a little bit because that's
5915 MR. McGOWAN: Well, I didn't bring any firm numbers with
me. I can tell you anecdotally working
for the period of time I have in the independent music community that,
interestingly enough, it is a couple of a very defined music genres that really
seem to speak. You referenced War Party
who are from a First Nation's reserve south of
5916 When you reference War Party, and certainly there is many, many other, you know, both DJs, MCs and, you know, Rap crews, that work in the community across the country; it's the level of verbiage that you can put out in a track that really allows you the freedom to address a lot of issues that you face and I think that's why ‑‑ that's been my experience, as I say, anecdotally.
5917 So I guess to draw back the radio
station, and our interest in independent music and our commitment to it, I know
5918 To give you one example, there is a
group called, The International Group of Pals, they have a My Space Page. These kids are, in many cases, working their,
you know, six, seven, $8 an hour jobs and putting their own money on the line
to bring touring acts to Saskatoon that in points west and points east are
being done as, you know, hard promoted show, contracted show guarantees, in
let's say Winnipeg or in Edmonton or Calgary that might normally skip over the
Province of Saskatchewan because of perception from maybe some of the larger
companies is that, you know, there is
not enough ‑‑ you know, can we do it there. And these guys are pooling their resources
and getting the word out on the Internet through posters and flyers to make
this happen. And there is a lot of that
happening to draw artists to
5919 MR. COWIE: Commissioner Cram, I think the assurance we would give the Commission is this. We philosophically have an on‑ramp philosophy and you have seen it in other things we do with Voice Print, with training Aboriginal journalists, and other plans we have for the future, so we're cognizant of the issues here and the lack of opportunity. And we ‑‑ that certainly will be very close to our thinking as we ‑‑ as the station builds and grows over time.
5920 MR. OLSTROM: I would like to ‑‑ actually Debra McLaughlin would like to just give a little bit more background.
5921 MS McLAUGHLIN: The only thing I wanted to share with you is in working with APTN both on the mentoring program and just discussing what they needed, one of the things that excited them the most about this application was the talent search in this market. Because it's through this that Aboriginal artists who perhaps weren't aware that they could have access to recording or couldn't find the funding or, you know, creating their own My Space Page without understanding the funding elements, would have their first big break. And it's this talent search in a market where the population is so clearly available and the talent pool is there that will be truly helpful.
5922 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
5923 You now have your ‑‑ sorry, Vice‑Chair Arpin...?
5924 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: I apologize, I will follow with one question to you, Mr. Cowie. When you said that the Saskatoon/Regina market altogether are picking about 36 million dollars in advertising revenues, but that ‑‑ okay, that's for the current size ‑‑ that's the current advertising pie, but how do you see the ‑‑ now, surely you're thinking that there is either money left that nobody has been taking because they are sold out or they ‑‑ or ‑‑ and what is the money left for you in the ‑‑ in Saskatoon?
5925 MR. COWIE: Thank you, Commissioner.
5926 I will also have Karen Broderick
speak to this, but the youth market, as I hate to use this analogy again as I
5927 I think there were over 200 businesses that operate in both markets currently and over 50 of those were directly inside our genre, so we think that there is an ample base for us to attach ourselves to, to begin and to grow over time, but the ‑‑ I would think that there is ‑‑ there is room for us to, you know, stretch those limits a little bit on the upper side and just to see what we can do there, but we're comfortable that the market is there for us.
5928 MS BRODERICK: If I could just add to that. We've identified a fair number of youth advertisers in both markets, but just specifically speaking of Saskatoon, the ones that we spoke to, a lot of them are not current users of radio because they don't necessarily feel that the options they have are ‑‑ they're not ‑‑ their customers are not listening to the stations in the market, so they go to other mediums to actually, you know, advertise.
5929 So there is that opportunity, but
in addition to what Bruce was saying about the synergies, there are a number of
retailers that operate in both markets, so we see the sales side of the synergy
is probably one the most important. We
see that there is a sales synergy between a proposed station in
5930 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: You said those advertisers are going into other radio. They're surely not going print, the youth generally don't ‑‑ generally speaking don't read the paper, the daily papers, and the weekly papers or community papers? Where do they go?
5931 MS BRODERICK: No, what they were telling us is they use flyers or, you know, they do outdoor advertising, transit, that kind of stuff, not necessarily newspaper, because you're right, the youth market isn't high newspaper readers.
5932 MR. OLSTROM: Maybe if Gary McGowan, just a little
anecdotal information that he was able to uncover in the
5933 MR. McGOWAN: During the Calgary hearing, one of the interveners that appeared on our behalf was a company called Union Events, who are a regional concert promotion company specializing in new music. And they often build ‑‑ you know, their own crew is across the west or sometimes work in tandem with House of Blues on things.
5934 So I actually spoke to them and I
said, you know, Woody, I have noticed that you play more shows in
5935 Typically what might happen in a larger market is you have AC Decks coming and you will build your media relationship with a print outlet and a radio station that's, you know, format or audience target applicable, have a big concert announcement and start giving away some tickets, gets the buzz building really quickly. And they gave me a couple of examples that both kind of reflect how it has to work now and maybe what the potential of the market is.
5936 There is a Hip Hop artist called
Atmosphere who is American, but if you had to equate him with somebody, I would
describe him as being very similar to Chaos in the sense that this is thinking
man's Hip Hop. It's not about, you know,
the bling and all this. I mean, it's
very about, you know, politics and issues of today. And they played him through
5937 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Word of mouth?
5938 MR. McGOWAN: Word of mouth, letting it go from there because that was the only option they had and they sold a thousand tickets in a market of ‑‑ you know, a quarter of the size of those other cities, both of which also have very viable urban music scenes.
5939 On the other hand, we had an act like Pennywise come through, which apparently was a white‑knuckle ride for them because there was no radio support available. You know, it's just not an act that the current rock station would play because it's just a little too far to the left of any need they have, but yet that act is a corner stone of the third wave of the punk rock, as it's called, that came out of California starting in the '80s and are much admired by people who respect that kind of music. And whereas it started blowing up all over the place in, you know, Winnipeg and Edmonton and Calgary, I think the on‑sale was very weak and we held on, we only did, like, 15 percent of the capacity on the first day. We thought, do we have to cancel this show, and then the word of mouth kicked in again. And it still didn't perform as well as it did in some of the other markets, but they got away with it.
5940 So I said, well, you know, how do you feel about things, and they said, well really, you know, I think the word heartache was described in terms of trying to approach a lot of mainstream media in Saskatoon right now, because they said, you know, just so much of what we do falls outside of their parameters, but yet there is an audience for it. If we had an outlet, I said obviously, and described the radio station to them. I said, yeah, obviously that would be a big help.
5941 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Thank you.
5942 THE CHAIRPERSON: Now, Mr. Cowie, your two minutes to shine.
5943 MR. COWIE: Tank you, Madam Chair, members of the
Commission. Our conclusion after reading
all of the applications is that there is an opportunity for a new service in
5944 It is this reality and obvious need to create listening opportunities for an increasingly disenfranchised youth that guided the design of our proposition. The Zone is the best choice for this market for several reasons. One, it serves the market 12 to 24 that is being left behind; is more immediately lucrative, demographics are served by the existing broadcasters; a systemic issue that must be addressed if the future of radio broadcasting is to be secured.
5945 The 12 to 24 population base in
5946 By addressing a clearly underserved
niche audience, we can enter
5947 In closing, we would like to add
that we think the test of all of the applications before you should be how well
the proposal meets the consumer needs and economic conditions of the market. In this case, there should also be another
consideration. Harvard Broadcasting has
long wanted to address the imbalance that exists in the province in terms of
ownership and opportunity, and
5948 We operate in a province where 27 of 33 stations are owned by Rawlco and Goldenwest and, in combination, they are a formidable opponent. Well, I think we can safely argue they are based on numbers of stations that arguments based on the numbers of stations owned or stations per capita have been dismissed in this hearing. Size does matter when it comes to negotiating advertising buys.
5949 And so we ask the Commission to
consider the reason behind all of our recent applications; the need to develop
critical mass when deciding whether we should be licensed and ask you to
consider this. We know the
5950 We hope that
5951 Thank you very much for your time and attention. Thank you very much.
5952 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
5953 Yes, we will be taking 15 minute break. By my watch it is 10 to 10, so we will reconvene at 5 after 10.
‑‑‑ Recess at 0950 / Suspension à 0950
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1005 / Reprise à 1005
5954 THE CHAIRPERSON: Madam Secretary...?
5955 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
5956 We will now proceed with item 19 on
the agenda, which is an application by Standard Radio Inc. for a licence to
operate an English language commercial FM radio programming undertaking in
5957 The new station would operate on frequency 96.3 megahertz, channel 242 C 1 with an effective radiated power of 100,000 watts nondirectional antenna, antenna height of 179.1 meters.
5958 Appearing for the Applicant is Ms Sharon Taylor, who will introduce her colleagues and you will have 20 minutes for your presentation. Ms Taylor...?
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
5959 MS TAYLOR: Thank you.
5960 Good morning, Chair Cram, members
of the Commission, staff. My name is
Sharon Taylor. I am the Vice‑President
and General Manager of Standard Radio Stations in
5961 Before we begin I would like to
introduce you to the members of our team, which has changed slightly since you
saw us for the
5962 To my right, Diane Morris,
Standards Radio Manager of Finances for
5963 To my left, Norine Mitchell, our
Retail Sales Manager in
5964 To Norine's left is Brian
Depoe. Brian is the Vice‑President
of Adult Contemporary Programming for Standard Broadcasting. Brian has 13 years experience programming the
format, is a leading expert in
5965 And as an aside I think it was Brian who said he came for a CRTC hearing and a CWC convention broke out.
5966 Directly behind me is Leah
Singleton, one of our Department Heads in
5967 To Leah's right is Betty Selin,
Regional News Director for Standard Radio based in
5968 To Leah's left is Janet Lazaris,
Principal of the Research Strategy Group in
5969 We're very pleased to be here today
to apply for a current based soft adult contemporary radio station for
5970 At this point I had planned to
outline for you the economic indicators proving that
5971 Our journey a couple of hours up
the road to
5972 One of the trades that differentiate
5974 Mining is an important industry in the region. Exploration and mining remain ongoing for potash, uranium, gold and diamonds. The region has almost two thirds of the world's recoverable potash reserves, and is the world's largest exporter of uranium.
5976 It is an exciting time to be living and doing business in this city. We are somewhat relieved that today there will be more groups in front of you agreeing with us on this point than arguing it.
5977 Standard Radio is a family owned
and operated business and a leading Canadian broadcast company with a well‑known
track record of serving the community, and the Canadian music industry. With 51 radio stations in seven provinces in
markets small, medium and large, we do truly understand the importance of local
radio service. While some of our radio
stations are in major markets like
5979 For example, this past March our
Program Director at Hot 103 in
5980 Standard Radio operates in every
size market there is in
5981 MS LAZARIS: The purpose of our study was to help Standard
Radio identify the most appropriate format for its plans to serve the
5982 First current base Soft AC would draw a large and saleable audience. In our research 52 percent of adults indicated that they would be either very likely or somewhat likely to turn to the easy rock format. Five percent indicated that this type of station would become the favourite station, and 17 percent said that it would become their second choice station.
5983 Based on the favourite station
response, we would project that a Soft AC format has the potential to gain a
five percent share of listening among adults 18 plus in
5984 Second, a current base Soft AC station would add diversity to the market. Among those who indicated that a Soft AC format would be their favourite, 70 percent felt that there is no local station that consistently plays the kind of music that suites their taste. This dissatisfaction is further reflected in the fact that many potential core listeners to the format, that's the Soft AC format, are tuning to satellite signals, internet radio and digital music channels like Max Trax. Forty percent of adults report listening to one or more of the nontraditional delivery methods in the past week.
5985 All in all the research indicates that Standard Soft AC format would be viable and would add a degree of diversity that would strengthen the local radio market. Additionally, while modern rock scored higher in our research, it was also clear that a new modern rock station would attract 40 percent of its audience from the existing station CJCJ Rock 102. Soft AC, on the other hand, would attract a fraction of that from across all of the existing stations resulting in less audience disruption to the incumbents.
5986 MS TAYLOR: EZ Rock Saskatoon will feature artists that generally don't get air play in the city, featuring not only many of the Canadian artists that Standard Radio has supported across the country for the past several years, but new and emerging artists whose music perfectly suits this current based format. To further illustrate, we have prepared a brief audio presentation for you.
‑‑‑ Audio clip / Clip audio
5987 MR. DEPOE: We are proposing a current based Soft AC radio service predominantly consisting of newer vocal music featuring artists such as Sarah McLaughlin, Corinne Bailey‑Rae, James Blunt and Kelly Clarkson, as well as emerging Canadian artists such as Amanda Stott and Keisha Chante.
5988 The key difference from what's
available in the market now is that we propose to play roughly 60 percent new
music. CJFK, the adult contemporary
5989 The EZ Rock format is a female‑focused mainstream format that enjoys success in numerous Canadian markets, owing to its commitment to family values, new music, serving the needs of the females and its target audience, and adhering to its strong brand principles.
5990 EZ Rock is one of the most
consistent and steadily growing formats in
5991 The current based Soft AC format we
propose has little duplication with current
5992 The EZ Rock format is more
adventurous than most traditional AC stations.
EZ Rock Edmonton, for example, was the first AC station in
5993 EZ Rock is the perfect venue to showcase and establish emerging Canadian artists. Over the past few years we have introduced Hip Joint, Lakota Sun, Feist, Shaye, David Usher and Kayle to our audience, to name just a few. We've also provided many new artists with an opportunity to showcase their talents with our exclusive Loyal Listener Club Performances where we invite an audience of listeners, provide a venue, serve food and refreshments, and let the Canadian newcomer perform, all at no cost to the artist.
5994 Standard Radio also compares play
lists with other like‑formatted stations in our company, so if an artist
is successful in
5995 With this proactive approach to nurturing and exposing Canadian talent and our commitment to established Canadian Superstars, reaching and maintaining 40 percent Canadian content in this format, including 40 percent 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. Monday to Friday, is very manageable.
5996 The EZ rock format is unique and
what we call family friendly. It's a
format that especially appeals to women and families and allows them to enjoy
the station without the worry of being embarrassed or offended by lyrics or
verbal content. We are very proud to
5997 At EZ Rock we want you to feel safe when you're listening with your kids. That's why we promise never to say anything that would embarrass you or make you feel uncomfortable with your family present, in fact, we guarantee it.
5998 MS TAYLOR: I'd like to switch gears and have Norine Mitchell share with you some of the details of our sales plans for EZ Rock Saskatoon.
5999 MS MITCHELL: Thanks,
6000 Retail spending, population growth,
building permits, and new business licences in
6001 When considering whether
6002 Home Depot is planning a new store and tenders have just been closed on a new 31 acre retail site at the Blairmore suburban development area.
6003 Local advertisers such as Wheaton Chevrolet express support for our application, and quoting their intervention letter, "The Standard Radio organization will offer a respected professional diversified alternative to the local landscape."
6004 Beilley's Bar and Grill, one of
6005 After discussing the potential
addition of Standards EZ Rock format to the
6006 A unique format that appeals to
women and families as well as the business diversity, that a national company
such as Standard Radio offers will be welcomed.
Our revenue projections are conservative, realistic, and quite
6007 MS SELIN: Madam Chair, we believe this application
offers a unique news component, in part due to the resources we will have in
the region and across the country. Our
strength is our commitment to reflect the community of
6008 But one of our other advantages is
the strength of the Standard Radio news centres across the country. Wherever news happens in
6009 There will be 45 news casts Monday to Friday, as well as locally produced news and public affairs programming featuring content relevant to our audience. We know how important features like road conditions and weather reports are to listeners in a region that can experience severe weather, and we plan to ensure that our listeners are well informed.
6010 EZ Rock will have an advantage during major events like National elections, budgets or any major government announcements. Our newsrooms will have the ability to link up with our Standard Radio news centres, bringing news from the source directly to our listeners.
6011 Our news policies reflect our
commitment to diversity and local reflection.
Our proven track record to serve our audience will keep our listeners in
6012 To further explain the Sunday morning news magazine and its impact on the community, Leah Singleton.
6013 MS SINGLETON: I discussed our Sunday News Magazine with many Saskatoon organizations, including The Aboriginal Friendship Centre, The Saskatchewan Indian Cultural Centre and White Buffalo Youth Lodge, just to name a few.
6015 As I mentioned Tuesday, it is
estimated that by 2050 half of
6016 Our Sunday Morning News Magazine
will cover issues that relate to all Aboriginal people in the
6017 We will also utilize our partnership with Aboriginal Voices Radio to share any of their relevant programming with our audience.
6018 As part of our Canadian Talent Development program we will recruit and train Aboriginal stringers hoping to enter broadcasting. These paid interns will produce programming for our news magazine, pitch story ideas and be out in the community reporting on events. The annual commitment for this program is $15,000.
6019 We will also create a $10,000
bursary program for students at the
6020 We have also earmarked $10,000 to
create a scholarship program for Aboriginal students interested in attending
6021 MR. DEPOE: Other Canadian Talent Development programs will include an annual EZ Rock Talent Search, much like the Canadian Idol phenomena, where the winner would record a demo sampler at a leading Canadian recording studio. Each year $30,000 will be devoted to this important initiative of which there will be a cash prize of $10,000 and a special showcase to introduce our winner to influential people in the music business. Standard will fully pay for the production of CDs and a professional bio package. The program further underscores our commitment to developing Canadian talent and promoting home‑grown music.
6022 Standard will also direct $15,000 per year toward the Saskatchewan Recording Industry Association or SaskMusic, as it's now known.
6023 And we've also created a fund that will support Canadians who are members of the four designated groups ‑‑ women, Aboriginals, disabled persons, and visible minorities. Musicians, songwriters and performers will be eligible to participate in this program, which will assist them with their music career. Standard is committing an annual $10,000 contribution to this initiative.
6024 There will be a donation to FACTOR of $5,000 per year, as well we will direct $5,000 annually to Canadian Music Week.
6025 MS TAYLOR: In total, Standard has proposed significant benefits for the development of Canadian talent in the amount of $100,000 per year or $700,000 in cash over the seven‑year licence term.
6026 Our Canadian Talent Development program also includes three non‑cash benefit programs. These include Standard's well‑known national free ad plan, which runs commercials promoting new Canadian CDs ‑ Standard Cares, our national program assisting local children's hospitals, and our national public service announcement program, which has every Standard Radio station airing public service announcements every hour.
6027 With our $875,000 of in kind programs, our total Canadian Talent Development package is over one million dollars over the term of the licence, a million five.
6028 Standard Radio's commitment to the
local community is consistent throughout the entire company. Last year alone Standard raised a total of
over seven million dollars across
6029 In summary, we have presented what
we consider to be a well thought out and strong application for an EZ Rock
radio station in
A current base Soft AC format that is in demand, but not available in
‑ A new independent editorial voice with a national platform.
‑ 40 percent Canadian content, including 40 percent Canadian content from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. Monday to Friday.
‑ A Canadian Talent Development benefits package of over $700,000 in cash, and $875,000 in kind.
‑ 20 new jobs and almost 10 million in investment over the term of the licence.
‑ A partnership with Aboriginal Voices Radio that will be part of our news and magazine coverage to the area
‑ a realistic and achievable business plan.
6030 We feel our application brings
diversity with an exclusive format ‑ EZ Rock ‑ and a new
editorial voice that are highly complimentary to
6031 That concludes our presentation, and we appreciate the opportunity to answer any of your questions.
6032 Thank you very much.
6033 THE CHAIRPERSON: Vice‑Chair Arpin...?
6034 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Thank you, Madam Chair.
6035 Just to ‑‑ as before turning to any discussions, I have gone through the CTV list that you put down this morning, and they are similar to the one that we have in the application, you agree?
6036 MS TAYLOR: Thank goodness. That is correct.
6037 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Thank you.
6038 We will now start discussing the
format, and its application for, say for the
6039 MS TAYLOR: I will ask Brian Depoe to speak to our demographics.
6040 MR. DEPOE: We anticipate the medium age of our listening audience to be about 41 years, skewed about 55 percent towards females over males.
6041 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Okay, thank you. I'm writing it down. As you probably are aware, because you surely did spend some time in the market. As CJMK appears to target a very similar adult audience and which is ‑‑ with an AC format. The BBM day life showing that they have somewhere between a 12 to a 13 share, at least a 12 plus, and that they surely are aiming in the 35‑64 age group. Could you tell me what's going to be the main differences between your Soft AC and CJMK?
6042 MS TAYLOR: Again, I will ask Brian to give you his comments on that.
6043 MR. DEPOE: The primary difference between ourselves and CJMK would ‑‑ first of all, CJMK programs 90 to 95 percent gold music. There's very little exposure for current artists or current music, particularly new and emerging Canadian talent on CJMK.
6044 The proposal we're putting forth
for EZ Rock Saskatoon would be 60 percent current music with an emphasis on new
and emerging Canadian talent. What comes
back to us time and again in the many markets we program the EZ Rock format
with the women and the families we seek to serve is, listen, we're not dead
yet. We still want to hear new music, we
still want to be in touch with what's going on today, but we want this music
presented in an environment that's safe and friendly. And that's the format and the kind of radio
station we're putting forward that does not currently exist in
6045 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: I heard you in your oral presentation saying that exactly ‑‑ almost using the same words, that you will never say anything that will embarrass you, you being the CRTC or being the listener?
6046 MR. DEPOE: Well, we certainly don't want to embarrass the CRTC ever.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
6047 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: And what do you really mean by that? Do you sensor your programming staff, what do you really mean by making sure that the comments that they're making is ‑‑ are totally ‑‑ again, back to that they will never embarrass anybody and make anybody feel uncomfortable?
6048 MR. DEPOE: The essence of EZ Rock brand has been reverse engineered from conversations with the target we seek to serve, which is women and families. And what came back to us time and again, and I don't know if you've had the experience recently as I have, if you're driving along in your minivan with your nine‑year‑old and something comes on the radio you can't explain, you don't want to be taken by surprise because you didn't have the opportunity to steer that inputted information to that little person. And the EZ Rock environment and EZ Rock brand is oriented towards no surprises for women and their families.
6049 So it's not so much a question of censoring people or shackling them, if you will, or not making them able to say things, it's how things are presented. And we just ‑‑ it is a no surprises environment for women and families, nothing inappropriate.
6050 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: It also applies in selecting the music?
6051 MR. DEPOE: Yes, it does apply in selecting music. Fortunately the great majority of what we have to choose from is never even an issue. So it's very, very seldom that we have to, you know, not use a musical selection because it's something inappropriate. It just doesn't come to us in this format.
6052 MS TAYLOR: I would like to just add one comment to that, if I may. It's not untypical when you have a group of people inside your radio station who are passionately motivated to serve the audience that the radio station is targeting. They become in tune with the life group, they become in tune with what's going on. Of course, all the announcers that work at our EZ Rock stations understand that at the very core of our programming is this family friendly pledge. They also, by virtue of doing a good job, have to immerse themselves in what's going on in the lives of the audience of our core audience.
6053 To follow up on what Brian said, it really just flows from that. They understand, they do their best to present stuff that's interesting. It doesn't have to mean boring, it simply is family friendly.
6054 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: I will say, more than likely that your programming staff will be also of the same age group, than the audience that you're trying to serve?
6055 MS TAYLOR: In most cases, yes.
6056 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: In most cases. So they have already had their training years through other formats, maybe, or through other ‑‑ they have the needed experience to say what they have to say.
6057 MR. DEPOE: Absolutely.
6058 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: There are two other applicants in this hearing. One is Pattison, and the other one is CJVR that are proposing formats of the same nature. Could you comment on their proposal and tell me what are the key differences between your application and theirs?
6059 MS TAYLOR: There are some very key differences musically, and I will have Brian again fill you in on those.
6060 MR. DEPOE: Having reviewed the other applications, it's very clear that neither of them is proposing the amount of current based music that we are. And clearly, what our research exposed, particularly through the adult female audience we seek to serve, is there's just not an outlet for them to hear a blend of some of their favourite songs, but also to hear a lot of the new music that they would like to hear to keep them in touch with what's going on today.
6061 So both of the other applications, to the best of my knowledge, from what I have learned from analysing them, are gold based entirely and would more or less more closely duplicate what's currently available in the market, whereas we propose something that is an alternative to what's available in the market.
6062 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: And earlier this morning we heard Harvard,
which is presenting a rock ‑‑ a more modern rock radio
format. In your oral presentation you
said that it is a format that you also look at for
6063 MS TAYLOR: I may ask Janet to fill in some of the gaps on the research for you. First of all, modern rock as we researched it, there was a hole for that ‑‑ for that format. I'm not sure that the format that Harvard is putting on the table is exactly the same as the modern rock format that we researched. There seems to be a little broader, a little bit more of, perhaps, CHR with rock and alternative. We were ‑‑
6064 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: And probably more younger than what you will have come up with.
6065 MS TAYLOR: It seemed that way to me. Yes, it seemed that way to me. Well, I'll ask Janet to talk about our research and what it told us.
6066 MS LAZARIS: Now, I wasn't responsible for the decision of the format Standard is applying for, but from the perspective of the research I would think that the primary rationales were one, the modern rock format would, according to the research, do quite a bit of harm to the incumbent rock station. Also, on ‑‑ from another perspective, the target demographic of the Soft AC is much more appealing to a broader variety of advertisers simply because the population base in the age demographic is much larger, and it's also much more affluent.
6067 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Well, we move now to talk about spoken word
and local reflection. Thank you, Mr.
Depot, you may have to come back to clarify the views of the EZ Rock. Obviously the Commission is quite
knowledgeable of the EZ Rock format since you have numerous radio stations, one
of them being your
6068 In the application I'm drawing your
attention to page 13 of your supplementary brief, and under the heading
"Addition of a New Voice in
6069 MS TAYLOR: I'll ask Betty Selin to respond to that for you.
6070 MS SELIN: Thank you,
6071 As I mentioned a couple of days ago, one of the things we think makes it unique is that there are only two broadcasters currently, and just the fact that we would bring that third editorial voice, and the fact we have in markets like Toronto and Ottawa, Standard Radio stations. You know, our CFRB station constantly wins awards for their programming, and we just have the ability through the software that we would have in our newsroom here, the ability to be able to access the stories that we could share with the audience here when it's relevant.
6072 Of course, our mandate in operations of this size is that our news would focus on local and this would be a local stand‑alone newsroom, but we would have the access to those other resources.
6073 When it comes to local reflection, we actually spent quite a bit time in the market talking to some local groups, and wanting to hear their concerns about how they feel they're being heard in the community. Many of these groups certainly welcomed our proposal for our Sunday News Magazine format show because they don't feel that their voice is being heard, and certainly that their community is being reflected in a positive way. Most of the stories, they feel, is certainly about ‑‑ they come from the Aboriginal community are not necessarily positive and, so in a news magazine format show you have an opportunity to give both sides to a story even though it's not a talk show format, it's a prerecorded interview kind of format show.
6074 So we feel that that's an opportunity to really reflect a segment of this community that they feel is currently not being heard on mainstream radio.
6075 MS TAYLOR: The fact that Standard Radio has this National platform of newsrooms that we could draw on should there be a National breaking story in the Nation's capital or in British Columbia, I would like to also point out that we believe that the reverse is true as well.
6076 Standard Radio currently, as you
are aware, does not have a radio station in
6077 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Madam Taylor, you are the operator of the
6078 MS TAYLOR: That's a good question. I wish I had thought of asking our News Directors that before I left.
6079 MS SELIN: Perhaps,
6080 In Standard Radio news stations
because of the technology we have, they feed us their reporter on the
scene. I mean, the
6081 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Does Standard Radio news have correspondence
6082 MS SELIN: No, we do not, but one of the things that Standard Radio is able to do, for example, during an election, we have a reporter on the bus with at least the two major parties, and for a section of the election someone with a third party, so that we actually have those direct reporters. We can call them up on our talk shows. We have complete access to them, so that's another big advantage that we have during those kinds of national stories.
6083 MR. DEPOE: And in addition, while we don't have people stationed all over the world on a full‑time basis, we very often do send reporters to cover major stories and major events.
6084 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: But do you have a regular source of International news that you are subscribing to some foreign service or do you rely through the Internet or you have somebody sit and watch CNN?
6085 MS SELIN: Most of our International news would be,
unfortunately like the rest of the broadcasters from broadcast news just
because of the resources that that requires.
However, if it is a major story, certainly a story like 911, CFRB sent
6086 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Could we speak a bit about The Sunday Morning News Magazine? I think you've alluded to it earlier, but you know that there will be a component coming from AVR and could we ‑‑ without going into as many details as we went the other day, could we have ‑‑ will it be different in Saskatoon than what you're planning to do in Regina or is it the same ‑‑ is it the same program or is it a similar type of program?
6087 MS SELIN: No, actually the program would be unique to
6088 Now, if there's a province‑wide story, probably that would air on both stations. And just to maybe further explain a little bit about how we would use Aboriginal Voices Radio, it's much how we would use the Standard Radio news centers across the country. Really the focus of the program will be local, but when there is a need or a great National story, they have more resources than us to do that.
6089 And so if they have a really
interesting program that what we think would be of value to our listeners in
6090 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: If I understand very well, what you're going to be doing with AVR is you're going to get a half an hour segment coming from them on a weekly basis prepackaged by them, so it will be not only of a Saskatoon nature, but of a Nation‑wide nature; am I right?
6091 MS SELIN: That's right.
And that's when we would use them is when there is a component of their
programming that we feel would be of interest to our listeners in
6092 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Oh, I see.
6093 So you will access AVR programming
only when ‑‑ because my understanding was that the agreement
was to get a half an hour weekly feature that you called ‑‑
you were to introduce in your Sunday News Magazine. Now, am I hearing you well when you say
it's ‑‑ you may do it or only if it is of relevance for
6094 MS SELIN: Yes, that's correct. I mean, there is no real need to air a
program that doesn't affect the
6095 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: So the agreement is that for them to produce for you a half an hour feature ‑‑
6096 MS SELIN: They wouldn't be producing something unique for us, we would have access to their already produced programming that we would be able to carry when appropriate. Am I making sense?
6097 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: It makes sense, but it means that you're going to need to have some staff listening to AVR to make the determination that this segment is of relevance and this one is not.
6098 So it means that you're going to have staff somewhere and ‑‑ well, obviously if it's got to be in Saskatoon, the AVR station has to be on air as well in Saskatoon otherwise you can always get it from Calgary or Edmonton or Toronto, but somebody will have to be listening to AVR to make sure that it has some relevancy for your ‑‑ for Saskatoon.
6099 MS SELIN: That's where a relationship with our News Director and people at AVR will be very important. Most of the other resources that we use in our stations across the country when we access programming, we certainly know what's available every week and so, I mean, that will be probably a weekly conversation saying what are your ‑‑ what are your program highlights this week and then a determination made to say, this is a great show, we want to take this show.
6100 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: And if you do take a segment, you understand that obviously this segment will not count as being local, because you said in your ‑‑ you're saying in your application you're going to be 100 percent local, but that segment will not be necessarily local.
6101 MS SELIN: Correct. And that's ‑‑ it's sort of difficult to nail it down because we really want this program to be a local reflection, but we also want the ability to be able to inform our listeners of an important national issue within the Aboriginal community. So that's a balance that we're obviously going to have to pay very close attention to.
6102 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Can I keep you, again, back on your ‑‑ the page 13 of your supplementary brief, and I will ask you also to enlarge on the two following quotes that I found, which you are saying the station will be designed to depend, in a large part, on interactive and public involvement to cover the daily news, and you go on to state that your news will be different because it will rely on actively involving the public and encourage listeners in the communities and will serve to help drive local reflections. Could you enlarge on that topic and say how it's going to really work?
6103 MS SELIN: Absolutely. The mandate of all of our Standard Radio news people, particularly in our smaller markets is to really get known in the community, to be at those meetings, to attend those council meetings, to be at the school board meetings, to make contacts within the community because we all know the reporters with the best contact list get the best stories. And so that's one way that we will do it is actually attending those functions, being out there as well as being on the phone every day.
6104 We also have opportunities through encouraging our listeners to call our newsroom with their news tip, and now we have, of course, a new way where they can e‑mail us, and we have, you know, through our website that we will have for this radio station, another opportunity for people to be able to send us their ideas, their suggestions, that kind of thing.
6105 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: We will now move to the other spoken word, the component of your programming grid.
6106 Other than the three hours of news and weather and sports that you have provided in your grid, could you tell me more about what is going to be the other components of your ‑‑ and obviously we have already covered the Sunday News Magazine, but the other features, other components of your spoken word?
6107 MS SELIN: Certainly. And just to clarify that, the three hours of our news and sports package. Our weather is over and above that, another two hours and two minutes, and then our road and traffic reports above that, another 45 minutes. And then when you include the Sunday News Magazine, it's a total of six hours and 43 minutes that would be provided by the newsroom, and then the remainder will be features and that type of thing provided by the Programming Department, and I believe Brian Depoe would like to speak to that.
6108 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: You seem to have a chart like probably the
one you've produced this morning for
6109 MS SELIN: Absolutely. We have that prepared for you.
6110 MR. DEPOE: And in addition to what Betty was talking about, we're proposing to produce local top 20 countdown, which will air twice on weekends. We also have a prerecorded daily feature called Community Counts, which again is aimed at the women and families in our target, highlighting various events being run by charitable community organizations. There's also the EZ Rock family fun guide, which is an entertainment and event feature that focuses on events, places with activities of interest to families. And then Saturday nights we have a fun show called Studio 96, which is just a place for people to sort of let their hair down and relax and have a little fun.
6111 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: My next question may get us back somewhere
close to format discussions, not only spoken word, but obviously you mentioned
that Saskatoon is probably having the most ‑‑ is probably
Canada ‑‑ major urban city that has the most Aboriginal
people, mainly First Nations people. And
how do you think the EZ Rock format will cater to the need of those listeners,
and particularly looking forward when you were saying that
6112 MR. DEPOE: I think one of the aspects of our Canadian Talent Development promise would be the first way that I would field that question. The Aboriginal community would be one of the four groups that we would target with our $10,000 fund that targets women, Aboriginals, disabled persons and visible minorities. We want to get those people involved in our radio station and get involved in the business that we're in, which is the music and radio and performing business. Any radio station that is going to take a place in this community would certainly understand its role in terms of reaching out to the members of the community and making the radio station relevant, otherwise they're not going to be successful. You know, part of the ambition of EZ Rock as family friendly radio station, and that's a value that resinates with any community irrespective of ethnicity or origin. We think the EZ Rock brand will be relevant to the Aboriginal community, particularly because of some of the other initiatives and community service aspects that are built into our proposal.
6113 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: One of your CTD incentives is the allocation of $15,000 for stringers for the Aboriginal and First Nation communities to provide content for this program. Should the stringer incentive be deemed ineligible for CTD under current guidelines, will you still maintain this weekly magazine program?
6114 MS TAYLOR: Absolutely.
6115 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: And you still commit, I think, to spending the $15,000 even if the Commission was to come to the conclusion that it wasn't CTD?
6116 MS TAYLOR: Yes, correct.
I would like to comment on that just briefly though. I understand that, as well, our commitment to
the ‑‑ to the scholarships for Aboriginal students in
broadcasting would be something that you would reflect on as well and guide us
on whether that would be considered Canadian talent development. If there ever was a hearing or a market where
we feel that this is important to reflect on, it is this one. It's not just ‑‑ we really
need to do our part, I feel, as an industry to do everything we can to attract
Aboriginal people to this industry. They
need to be sitting on this side of the microphone, their voices need to be
heard, not just in news stories, not just in magazine programs as part of the
story, but we really need to do whatever we can to attract these people to the
industry. Of course that's true, I believe
6117 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Thank you.
6118 On page 2 of your supplementary brief, you allude to available programming synergies with other Standard stations in the areas of local reflection as well as regional, national, and you state further that approval of your application will allow Standard to draw on our expertise from other EZ Rock stations in the chain creating more opportunities for synergy. Could you be more specific as to the times of programming synergies that you are referring to?
6119 MS TAYLOR: Certainly. We have a number of EZ Rock stations already within our chain, so I'll ask Brian to speak to how they work together.
6120 MR. DEPOE: We're always researching the EZ Rock brand and EZ Rock music and EZ Rock core values in all the communities that we do business, and we're always learning things, and you can learn things in any market that you can put to use in other markets. The more people we talk to, the more women and families we talk to, the more we learn about what their core values are, what their needs are and what they would like from an EZ Rock radio station.
6121 So there's a sharing platform there. It's not so much an opportunity for us to import programming, it's more an opportunity for us to import ideas and to expand on the values that we know are at the core of our brand and are at the core of the people we seek to serve.
6122 MS TAYLOR: Brian does conduct I think it's weekly phone conference calls with all the Program Directors that had this format across the country, as we do with our other like formats. And it's exactly that, it's ‑‑ well, Brian might have a few cages that he wants to rattle from time to time, but it's usually a sharing of opportunity, a sharing of information. Did you hear about this, we have this going on in this market, it's really working out well. And as well, with our commitment to new and emerging Canadian music, we think this is very instrumental in getting music that is in a small market somewhere in Canada by a local artist that is doing well, that's getting response on our websites or request lines and whatnot, getting that information to our other Program Directors quickly so that they can respond to it and potentially test it out in their market and grow the music that way.
6123 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: The talking about local programming, you will be local live how many hours a week?
6124 MR. DEPOE: Seventy‑eight hours per week.
6125 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: And the rest will be voice track or will you have syndication programming as well?
6126 MR. DEPOE: We have 37 hours of voice track programming and 11 hours of produced special program, but it's all local.
6127 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: All right, so it's produced by the local people to be here over the weekend, particularly, or later during the day?
6128 MR. DEPOE: That's correct.
6129 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: That's correct, ok.
6130 MS TAYLOR: THE countdown show and things of that nature.
6131 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Okay. No broker programming? Any broker programming?
6132 MR. DEPOE: I beg your pardon, sorry?
6133 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Will you have ‑‑ there aren't any brokered programming?
6134 MR. DEPOE: At this point we have no plans to do any broker programming.
6135 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Okay. Now, I was directed by one quote in your application and where you are dealing ‑‑ well, you're going to have a daily financial and business report, and I was asking myself how do you do those business reports to make them more attractive for women, since you are going to be catering more towards women. Generally speaking, those features are done by a guy at the Stock Exchange or at CIBC or Nesbitt Burns, but what kind of special focus do you have to make them more attractive for women?
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
6136 THE CHAIRPERSON: For the record, this woman over 35 plus listens to male stockbrokers and female stockbrokers, and I am indifferent to the gender of the individual and the tone and whether it's ‑‑
6137 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: I'm not suggesting here that women aren't interested by business and financing, I think they have ‑‑ but they are more attracted, surely, by something other than men.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
6138 MS TAYLOR: I'll attempt to answer that, but I'm going to ask Brian to ‑‑ maybe Brian should handle all of it.
6139 MR. DEPOE: Commissioner Arpin, it's you and me at this
point. First of all, and I know Sharon
is itching to get at this question, but, of course, business news and financial
news is a relevance to both sexes and it's presented in a way that's of
interest to both on the EZ Rock radio stations.
6140 MS TAYLOR: I think you put that beautifully.
6141 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Thank you. You're saving me as well.
6142 We'll move now to Canadian talent development. We noted that during the deficiency phase that there was some question that as to the eligibility of your Aboriginal, First Nation broadcasting core scholarship initiative you have indicated that this initiative, if it was deemed ineligible, then the $10,000 will be re‑directed to the CB Starmaker Fund. If ineligible as CTD it will not maintain this initiative as a benefit outside of CTD.
6143 MS TAYLOR: That's correct.
6144 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Could you provide us with any additional background of this type of broadcasting scholarship initiative that might impact on its eligibility as acceptable CTD funding under current guidelines?
6145 MS TAYLOR: I just want to be clear, are you speaking to
6146 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: And you have ‑‑ well, you just stated that if the Commission was to deem it noneligible, then you will not contemplate doing it.
6147 MS TAYLOR: We'll certainly still do all the good work that we do in our other markets with the universities, with the community colleges, working with then, and, of course, we'll have a large component on air for employment equity and diversity.
6148 But, no, we think that again, if
you disallow that, we'll be content to put our money into Starmaker and proceed
with our other initiatives, which do include the
6149 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Thank you.
6150 We'll move now towards the economic aspect of your application, including the impact of the incumbent and the market capacity. We'll start ‑‑ my first question I'll start with page 6 of your presentation where you said ‑‑ you spoke about economic indicators and particularly the first one that you quote was GDP growth of 3.8 percent for 2006. What is the source of that indicator?
6151 MS TAYLOR: I would just like to reintroduce Norine Mitchell, she handles our sales component, and she'd like to speak to that, I think.
6152 MS MITCHELL: I was provided that information by the Saskatoon Regional Economic Development Board.
6153 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Now, you also mention in your oral presentation, Ms Mitchell, that they ‑‑ all the economic indicators were positive other than the GDP. What were the other indicators that you had looked at?
6154 MS MITCHELL: Building permits were very encouraging, and in particular my discussions with the local business people, the key advertisers.
6155 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: So that, generally speaking, reflected that the economy was good, that's what you're saying?
6156 MS MITCHELL: Yes, the growth in retail spending was obvious and in particular there is quite a large growth in housing and relatively affluent housing as well.
6157 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Okay. So those are not ‑‑ so your reference is really the local trade and talking with the people, and obviously with the city, just industrial, development corporation, I would suspect, but there is no ‑‑ no other ‑‑ you didn't consult the conference board or the other sources?
6158 MS MITCHELL: I did source the Conference Board as well, and that was as well through Saskatchewan Economic Development ‑‑ Saskatoon Economic Development.
6159 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: That's fine.
6160 MS TAYLOR: There were the other indicators, of course. You know, we looked at population, we looked at housing starts, we looked at kind of the laundry list of what you go through to see whether there is growth in the market and whether it's been a sustained growth, slow but sure or just in the last couple of years, and in Saskatoon it is true that it is a market that is so diversified at this point and what's really terrific is I just ‑‑ I just love reading about the way the ‑‑ I think I referenced, you know, the old fashioned ag business has now been married with this incredible high technological industry that's going on in Saskatoon.
6161 So there is ‑‑
and, of course, just the local retailers are very, very buoyant about what's
going on there and feeling good, and everyone that we spoke to when you ask the
question, how is business? Good. Well, how is it compared to this time last
year? Great. And how are you feeling about where it's
going? I think it's going terrific. And this all was before the PST cut, which I
apologize if we tend to kind of talk about it a little too much, but we don't
have it in
6162 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: And the other provinces as well.
6163 MS TAYLOR: Yes, true.
6164 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Have you tried to ‑‑ have you done a study to establish the market capacity for ‑‑ an advertising capacity of the market in Saskatoon, and particularly the radio ‑‑ the radio capacity, and what the incumbents are currently taking and what you expect to take?
6165 MS MITCHELL: The formula we used or the process we used is
we worked our way backwards from the CRTC 2005 Financial Report stating that
6166 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: And have you figured out how much money the ‑‑ could you give me more details on how you arrived at the 23 million dollars, because you started with 63 for the full ‑‑
6167 MS MITCHELL: 63 million, yes, I can.
6168 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: And then you said, you look at market share and finally arrive at 23 million, but could you substantiate that?
6169 MS MITCHELL: Well, the formula that we used, we started at
the 63 million from 2005. We broke the
population base down. In
6170 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: So you're going to be taking yourself a million ‑‑ a million ‑‑ $350,000 of that 23 million dollars. Do you have an idea of what the incumbents are currently getting out of that 23 million dollars? Because you're using 2005 numbers, so have you done any study or have you listened to the stations, look at the number of spots that they're currently running and then make an estimate of how much they are ‑‑ they could get out of the market?
6171 MS MITCHELL: Yes, I did monitor the stations and we have been monitoring the stations. The radio stations are fairly balanced right across the Board as far as share goes. There is, of course, the Hot AC station in town does take a slightly more share, but it's very balanced right across, and I believe that the remaining 23 or the 23 million is spread fairly evenly over the top three radio stations there.
6172 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: So 23 is what the market ‑‑ what the radio broadcasters in the market are making. Are there any money because they ‑‑ we heard earlier this morning that there were some retailers that were not advertising because probably they were not even solicited.
6173 MS MITCHELL: That's right.
6174 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: So what is, according to you, the market capacity? I hope you're not telling me that you're going to be taking 1,150,000 out of the broadcasters department use?
6175 MS MITCHELL: No, actually ‑‑
6176 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: That's not what your application says.
6177 MS MITCHELL: Yes, I've got it right here, yes. Yes, I do have a breakdown on that. We project 35 percent of our revenue will come from non‑radio, nontraditional advertising, 25 percent, we feel, will come from existing advertisers' budgets spread, like I said earlier, fairly evenly over the competitors. And 40 percent we expect to see from expanded radio advertising budgets, because this particular format is delivering a market not currently reached.
6178 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: And what has been the experience of Standard in launching EZ Rock format in other markets regarding new advertisers?
6179 MS TAYLOR: I think it depends on the market, and I think it depends on the demand for that format in the market because it is Standard Radio and in this case I think you will notice by looking at our projected financials, we will operate at a bit of a loss for the first couple of years, something that we're more than willing ‑‑ I was going to say more than happy, but I'm sure that there would be people that would argue that. That we can manage that and we're content to manage that because we think it is a growth format and one that will be successful for many, many years.
6180 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Now, I don't have any doubts that Standard has the financial capacity to compete, but you will be a stand‑alone group in a market where there is six stations owned by two different owners who are making use of the same shop for national advertising. How do you think you will be able to compete?
6181 MS TAYLOR: Well, it will be ‑‑ we have organized all of our financials and all of our planning based on being a stand‑alone station. We accept that, we understand that, we're well aware that Rawlco and Elmer Hildebrand are very well imbedded in the market and established and are able to operate of synergies not just within the Saskatoon market, but also in Rawlco's case in Regina and Prince Albert and North Battleford, and in Golden West's case in Moose Jaw and elsewhere.
6182 So we are very aware of that. It's not uncommon. We have the same situation in other Standard markets. We'll be able to withstand it, we'll find whatever synergies are available to us and operate. We are very aggressive on our costs and conservative with our expectations. We think that we'll do just fine.
6183 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: As you know, Rawlco and Hildebrand have intervened and so is Ken Goldstein, and particularly the study filed by Ken Goldstein saying that the market cannot support a new radio station. What are the factors you think have been taken by Mr. Goldstein and show they have been taken so that to consider the market is sound and having the capacity to support new entrants?
6184 MS TAYLOR: Naturally we disagree with them strongly. We believe that the market is strong and will support a new broadcaster in the market, and we also feel that the time has come to answer the need in the community for a new broadcaster, a new voice, not just a new editorial voice, but a new feed on the street. I think that it will be very stimulating for the business community on a local level as well as on a national level to have another broadcaster in the market. Do you want to expand on that, Norine, at all?
6185 MS MITCHELL: Certainly,
6186 MS TAYLOR: As well, you know, I think pointing out the obvious that Golden West and Rawlco have combined as a trust to enter the market with another radio station, so ‑‑
6187 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: I may appear to go back and forth because I
have two questions. One is based on your
oral presentation and may need Mr. Depoe to expand because you're saying that you
will provide an avenue to serve food and refreshments to let the Canadian
newcomer perform at all at no cost to the artist. What are you planning to do specifically for
6188 MR. DEPOE: This is something we do in many of our
markets already. For example, our
country station BX93 in
6190 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: And are you taping these shows and playing them back on the radio station or is it ‑‑
6191 MR. DEPOE: We broadcast many of them live, we've taped many of them. Many of them have turned into nationally syndicated specials via our national syndication arm, which is Sound Source, and they will continue to be a source of material not only for Sound Source and for our radio stations, but for Iceberg Media, our online media service.
6192 MS TAYLOR: We also enjoy doing the same kind of initiative with new and emerging artists, artists that really are unknown to our audience. I remember a number of years ago talking to a SRIA about some of the things that they do to help their membership, and it was a bit eye opening for me to realize that something as basic as helping them build and manage a budget, these kind of performances are terrific for new talent. It gives them a controlled opportunity in front of a fairly small, receptive crowd to, you know, really hone their craft.
6193 So as Brian said, we will have these very highly anticipated and sought after artists come in, Canadian artists that people, you know, are just thrilled to be in a small group and be able to listen to them talk about how they write and their music and listen to them perform, but it's equally as gratifying to find artists who are fairly new in the business and help them kind of get their feet underneath them with performing in front of an audience.
6194 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: And on a yearly basis, how many performances
do you think you could do in
6195 MR. DEPOE: Well, in
6196 So we will make a very proactive case of going out there and doing it as often as we can.
6197 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: My last question, Mrs. Taylor, as in your supplementary brief on page 17, you're saying that you will have an Advisory Board which will provide ongoing feedback and direction to the station programming people, and the members of that Advisory Board will include local listeners, performers, promoters and members of the Aboriginal community. Have you already started talking to some people this way or ‑‑
6198 MS TAYLOR: We have not talked to anyone in particular in terms of an invitation. We have certainly made mention of this to groups that we have met with and individuals, you know, mentioning would you be interested, should we have this licence, would you be interested in participating in something like this, and give them a general guideline of, you know, what we do in other markets with this Board, but we haven't done anything specific, and we have no one currently lined up for it, no.
6199 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: And who, at the station, will be involved in the Advisory Board and responsible ‑‑ who is going to call the meetings? Is it the station manager or is it ‑‑ it will be the Advisory Board has its own Chair, how does it work?
6200 MS TAYLOR: No, it is ‑‑ I'm going to ask Brian to fill in on this, but it is generally chaired by the General Manager and the Program Director.
6201 MR. DEPOE: That's correct. The General Manager and Program Director
chair the meetings and we invite department heads from the radio station to
come in and talk about their functions and activities of the radio station and
then take feedback from the Advisory Board.
And it's one of the really critical aspects of setting down roots in a
community, particularly in
6202 So inviting the Aboriginal community into our boardroom to sit down and tell us what they need from the radio station will be a critical aspect of our future, should we be granted the licence.
6203 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: And do you have an Advisory Board in other markets?
6204 MS TAYLOR: Yes, we do.
6205 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: You have one in
6206 MS TAYLOR: Yes, we do.
6207 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: So how many times a year do you meet with the Advisory Board?
6208 MS TAYLOR: A minimum of four.
6209 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: A minimum of four?
6210 MS TAYLOR: Once per quarter, yes.
6211 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Once per quarter. Well, those were my questions. Thank you, Mrs. Taylor and returning back to my Madam Chair.
6212 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
6213 Commissioner Williams...?
6214 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Madam Chair.
6215 Now, Ms Taylor, given the apparent financial vibrancy of the Saskatoon marketplace, how many new stations do you think we can license, and if we were to license more than one, which applications would have the least impact on your business plan, and which applicants would be most compatible with your offering, and which applicants would be most harmful to your business plan?
6216 MS TAYLOR: Certainly we feel that there is a very comfortable margin for one commercial operator. After that, you know, I don't know whether you want me to, you know, Touch, I think has a ‑‑ Touch, AVR, these are both groups that would have absolutely minimal impact on our business plan.
6217 So it would be ‑‑ I would be very comfortable with either of those groups as well in the market.
6218 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you going to try and identify which would be most competitive with you then? I think my question ‑‑ I said which would be most harmful to your business plan if they were licensed along with you?
6219 MS TAYLOR: I think Pattison. It is a ‑‑ I mean, it's too ‑‑ if we were lucky enough to have ‑‑ when you have the existing broadcasters and then you add in our EZ Rock radio station, and then you add in the Pattison Group's format, then I start to think it gets a bit muddy. So I would say Pattison.
6220 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Thank you for that answer. That's my question.
6221 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
6222 Just back on the Advisory Board, the last sentence of the description in the supplementary brief says, "The Advisory Board will also ensure that the station is true to our family friendly promise." Could you explain what that means and how that works?
6223 MR. DEPOE: It's a question of being a voice in the community that we are learning about, and we want to go in there and marry our core values with core values that are compatible in the market that we're seeking to serve.
6224 It's sort of a reserve engineering
process where we say, you know, this is
the kind of radio station we are, and these are the values we seek to
serve. And we would like your advice on
how the best ‑‑ what the best way is to do that in the
6225 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: I understand the purpose, but it was more specific. And when you say ensure, one might think they would be responsible for the ‑‑ what's on the air, but I assume it's an advisory role and that the Program Director or the News Director is, in fact, responsible?
6226 MS TAYLOR: Yes. I would like to speak to that for a second. With these Advisory Boards, where we find them to be the most helpful is they're not reactive, they're proactive. You know, quite often in a lot of the radio stations that I manage, it is a reactive communication that you have with your listeners. It's as simple as having a mother phone and say, I was driving my children to school this morning and this is what I heard on the radio and I think it's inappropriate. And with our Advisory Boards we have the opportunity to sit and talk about what's on our mind, what we're thinking about with our programming, where the music and the, you know, the artists and what's going on in pop culture, if you will, within our format, and kind of get their feedback on how they feel about these kinds of issues. And it gives us a ‑‑ it gives us a good gauge measure to go back and speak to the rest of the radio station, the announcers, the talent, even the news department, and say this is what we're feeling from our Advisory Board. This is what they're telling us how they feel about these issues, how they're being handled in other media, on television, at other radio stations, and how they feel about it, so it really does help us, I believe, to be more proactive as opposed to reactive. That's certainly one of the components.
6227 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: No, I do understand. I thank you for that further explanation. It was just a question of assuring that it is an advisory role, but in fact the decision is made by the Program Director.
6228 MS TAYLOR: Absolutely.
6229 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
6230 THE CHAIRPERSON: Ms Taylor, can I ask or suggest, maybe, that
you would file the curriculum from
6231 MS TAYLOR: Certainly.
6232 THE CHAIRPERSON: Because my recollection of that
6233 MS TAYLOR: Yes, it is.
It's a Creacom, creative communicate ‑‑ the
6234 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
6235 MS TAYLOR: Yes. Yes, you're correct, it is, it is broader.
6236 THE CHAIRPERSON: Ms Mitchell, when you had your discussions in
6237 MS MITCHELL: That was prior to.
6238 THE CHAIRPERSON: Was that before or after the second flooding in of the ‑‑ no, the second uranium mine to flood?
6239 MS MITCHELL: You know what ‑‑
6240 THE CHAIRPERSON: It's about a week or two ago.
6241 MS MITCHELL: It was pretty close to that.
6242 THE CHAIRPERSON: Ms Mirwald is here, I think she'd be able to tell us the exact date.
6243 MS MITCHELL: Probably help us with that.
6244 MS MITCHELL: Yeah, I would suspect it was before. I was there about four weeks ago.
6245 THE CHAIRPERSON: I suppose things go up and down, so I guess it doesn't ‑‑ who knows.
6246 My final question is this looks a
lot ‑‑ aside from the format, this looks to me like a cookie
6247 MS TAYLOR: No. I think that when ‑‑ when you operate within a larger company, you do try to take your best practices everywhere you go, and I think ‑‑
6248 THE CHAIRPERSON : No, I'm talking about the CTD.
6249 MS TAYLOR: Oh, I see.
6250 THE CHAIRPERSON: I'm talking about the programming, the spoken word programming.
6251 MS TAYLOR: Our news commitment, I think, in
6252 THE CHAIRPERSON : But you've got the same magazine program?
6253 MS TAYLOR: Correct.
6254 THE CHAIRPERSON: And you've got the same CTD. And I guess my reaction is vis‑a‑vis
the differences in the ‑‑ in the markets, particularly the
differences ‑‑ well, I mean, there are a lot of differences in
the market, one of which I think is very important and I have spoken about. I guess I'm surprised you didn't pay more
attention to the differences between them and the needs of the
communities. I see the same amount of
you will be doing the same thing for Aboriginals in
6255 MS TAYLOR: I don't disagree with you that there are some similarities. We did build both ‑‑ we built the programming in both of the markets, we felt, to react to that market. I mean, the idea of the Sunday Morning News Magazine program, which we're very excited about, is a ‑‑ it's a stand alone in each market. We wanted to serve each market individually as we do recognize that they are very different markets. That said, Saskatchewan, there is a lot of similarities in‑between the two, but there are differences, and we feel that that is reflected in a lot of the different parts of the application, whether it be news or differences in ‑‑ subtle differences in the Canadian talent development. We operate in ‑‑ in many markets where I suppose if you sat and organized the ‑‑ like you do for a hearing, the points that you offer, they would be similar. We are a company that tries to take our best practices, our best programming, and share it. At the same time, we would not be successful in any of our markets if we did not respond to local programming, and that's how we do build our radio stations for the audiences that we serve and the communities that we serve. And if I could just ‑‑
6256 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
6257 You have your two minutes to shine.
6258 MS TAYLOR: Thank you.
6259 I would just like to take a moment
to reaffirm the key points of our application.
Those are brand‑new format not previously available in the market
EZ Rock, a new and strong voice for Saskatoon, 20 new jobs, new opportunities,
40 percent Canadian content, including 40 percent Canadian content 6 a.m. to 6
p.m. Monday to Friday. A benefits
package, a Canadian Talent Development package of $700,000 in cash over a seven‑year
period. A new approach to news and
information utilizing our newsrooms across the country, along with partnerships
with Aboriginal Voices Radio. And a
unique magazine program for
6260 Thank you.
6261 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
6262 Madam Secretary, we'll just go straight on.
6263 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
6264 I would now call on Touch Canada Broadcasting to come forward for their presentation.
6265 THE CHAIRPERSON: Madam Secretary?
6266 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
6267 Before we proceed to the next
application, I would just like to indicate for the record that Standard Radio
has filed their chart on Spoken Word Programming on their
6268 And also, just for ‑‑ to note that the curriculum that they have undertook to provide with respect to the Broadcasting Scholarship Initiative, this will be provided on November 10th through the Commission, and will also be available on their application file.
6269 We can now proceed with the next
application, which is Item 20 on the Agenda.
An application by Touch Canada Broadcasting
Inc. for a licence to operate an English language FM commercial specialty radio
programming undertaking in
6270 The new station would operate on frequency 100.9 MHz, (channel 265C1) with an effective radiated power of 100,000 watts (nondirectional antenna/antenna height of 179.1 meters).
6271 Appearing for the applicant is Mr. Allan Hunsperger, who will introduce his colleagues, and you will have 20 minutes for your presentation. Mr. Hunsperger.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
6272 MR. HUNSPERGER: Thank you, Madam Secretary. Madam Chairman, members of the CRTC and
Commission staff. Thank you for allowing
us the opportunity of sharing with you our reasoning for applying for a
specialty FM Gospel music radio licence for the City of
6273 Before we get started, let me
reintroduce to you our panel. To my far
right is Beverly Gillespie, our Business Manager. To my immediate right is Malcolm Hunt, our
Network Program Director. To my left is
Jamie Moffat, Sales Manager of our
6274 Attached to the end of our presentation document is a seating chart for ease of identifying members of our panel.
6275 At the present time
6276 As we mentioned earlier in our
6277 Due to the success of these
stations, Touch Canada Broadcasting is now ready to launch more of these kinds
of stations in other markets where interest has been shown such as
6278 MS GILLESPIE: As you drive into
6280 We at Touch Canada Broadcasting want to be part of the mosaic of this community, and we feel that the addition of a Shine FM will only add to its luster.
6281 We called in Ipsos‑Reid to survey the city and area to see what the response would be in offering a Gospel music format. I will ask Jamie Moffat to explain to you their process and also share with you the results of the survey.
6282 MR. MOFFAT: Thank you, Bev.
6283 Ipsos‑Reid was commissioned by
Touch Canada Broadcasting to conduct a telephone survey with a random sample of
300 adults from the
6284 Interest in a contemporary
Christian music station in
6285 Those interested in the contemporary Christian music station indicate they would listen to the station for an average of 74 minutes per day. Additionally 24 percent who would listen to the station, say their overall radio listening habits would increase if the station was available.
6286 Interest in a southern Gospel music
station is weaker than that for a contemporary Christian music station, but
still promising. A total of 21 percent
of respondents say that if a southern Gospel music radio station was available
6287 If these stations existed today
they would be among the most popular stations in
6289 Although almost all Saskatoon adults listen to the radio on a daily basis, only one in three report being very satisfied with radio in Saskatoon, indicating a gap in the marketplace. Only 17 percent of respondents who watch or listen to Christian programming say they are very satisfied with the amount of Christian programs available to them. Only 10 percent of respondents who listen to Christian music say they're satisfied with the amount of Christian music currently being played on the radio.
6290 MR. HUNSPERGER: Upon receiving this information we decided to go with the largest group in the survey, that of the contemporary Christian music.
6291 We have trademarked Shine FM for
6292 MR. MOFFAT: As I told you earlier in our
6293 As a result of our research of the
6294 MR. HUNSPERGER: I will now ask Malcolm to share with you a
little of our programming plan for
6295 MR. HUNT: Thank you, Allan.
6296 For your information, attached to this presentation is Appendix B, Programming schedule that I have drawn up to give you a look on one page of what the programming looks like at 100.9 Shine FM Saskatoon.
6297 As in
6298 We will provide a weekly total of 31.4 hours of spoken word programming, this will include 6.6 hours of news, weather and sports, 8.3 hours of local reflection and announcer content, 1.5 hours of comedy and human interest features, and 15 hours of brokered programming.
6299 A total of 98 hours per week of our programming will be local as defined by the Commission's current regulations. This represents approximately 78 percent of our overall 126‑hour broadcast week.
6300 In our
6301 Community involvement is another
area Touch Canada Broadcasting prides itself on. If granted a licence in
6302 With respect to balance, just let
me reiterate what we stated our
6303 We also recognize the importance of Canadian talent development. We believe the stronger the Canadian Gospel music industry becomes, the better sounding our radio stations will be. We propose a commitment of $112,000 over the licensed term that money will go entirely to the Shai Gospel Music Awards.
6304 As Dionne Smith explained to you
6305 In addition to the artists
mentioned in our
6306 Since the inception of the Shai
6307 MR. HUNSPERGER: Thank you, Malcolm.
6308 Touch Canada Broadcasting is
looking forward to bringing a Shine FM to
6309 We are now ready to answer any of your questions in regards to this application, and thank you.
6310 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Pennefather.
6311 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you, Madam Chair. Good almost afternoon by a few minutes.
6312 First, Mr. Hunsperger, would you please convey to Madam Smith our best wishes for a speedy recovery of her son.
6313 MR. HUNSPERGER: Thank you, I will. Thank you.
6314 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: I just have a few questions to clarify our understanding of the music and local and spoken word programming first on the list. One thing that wasn't clear when we're looking at the music. You haven't specified a target audience, and when I went through IPSOS‑Reid I didn't quite see that there was a target audience or a core demographic. And as you know, we look at that with all the applicants. Could you explain what you think is your core target audience?
6315 MR. HUNSPERGER: Our core demographic usually is female, 33 to 35, married, two children, and a professional.
6316 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: That's quite specific. So female, 33 to 35, and as we ask, is there a medium age that's the core?
6317 MR. HUNSPERGER: Well, we'd go 20.
6318 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: That would be 32 and a half.
6319 MR. HUNSPERGER: Yeah.
6320 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Okay. Not bad for a non‑math person. I notice as well that you mentioned today, and this was very interesting to read on page five, that in fact it's the Christian music more than southern Gospel that is showing up as more attractive to your potential listeners. And you do note that the listenership could rival CFMC, CJDC and CJMK, which are CHR Rock and so on. Could you just explain how you would bring a distinctive music to the listenership and what ‑‑ why is yours the best choice of format?
6321 MR. HUNSPERGER: Well, obviously, you know, right now outside
of the low power 37 watt that's playing out of future, there is no format right
6322 I mean, if we got half of that, we would be turning cartwheels. We usually get in a market about a four to a five percent, maybe a six percent share, and that's about where we go. IPSOS‑Reid just, you know, takes a look at this and then takes a look at the other people that they've surveyed and asks the question, which station do you listen to? And that's where they get these percentages.
6323 So it makes us look very good on the paper here, but we know realistically that we're only going to get about five or six percent of the share.
6324 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you.
6325 It's the distinction that you drew with the Christian music, which really covers a number of genre, as you explained the other day, and the more specific southern Gospel music, which skewed of less interest. So I guess we're looking at the diversity within low genre that you would offer.
6326 MR. HUNSPERGER: Yes. We have done this in several of our surveys with IPSOS‑Reid because we know in our Edmonton market we have a southern Gospel music station and we have a contemporary, and so we ask the question for them to ask which of these formats would be the most popular in these areas, and virtually almost every area that they surveyed comes out the same, that the contemporary Gospel music is higher than the southern Gospel music, almost about the same percentages all the way through.
6327 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: So there is contemporary Gospel and souther Gospel?
6328 MR. HUNSPERGER: Yes.
6329 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Okay. That terminology provides a slightly different distinction.
6330 Thank you.
6331 MR. HUNSPERGER: Yes.
6332 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: If we move on to spoken word, again just a clarification. In your application, and you repeat it today in your presentation, you will provide a total of 31.4 hours of spoken word, which includes 6.6 hours news, weather and sports, 8.3 hours local reflection and announcer content, and 1.5 hours comedy and human interest features. Would that describe ‑‑ that describes only part of the 31.4 hours of spoken word. Could you just elaborate? I'm looking at your application at 7.6 where you have a list of what you're providing as spoken word. Could you go through that and just clarify the total 31.4 hours?
6333 MR. HUNSPERGER: I will ask Mr. Hunt to give you the detail on that.
6334 MR. HUNT: I think the remaining 15 hours that we were talking about is the brokered spoken word.
6335 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: It's the brokered?
6336 MR. HUNT: Yes.
6337 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Okay. Because we had in the application special programs that could promote the community, et cetera, and so it led to thinking that the 31 was made up of the six, the eight and another 16, but that's not the case.
6338 MR. HUNT: The local reflection I think would be the community involvement, community calendar, that type of thing.
6339 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: The 8.3 hours of local reflection?
6340 MR. HUNT: Correct.
6341 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: And the
15 hours of brokered programming is not local, it is, in fact, not Canadian as
we discussed. It's the same approach as
6342 MR. HUNSPERGER: Yes.
You know, like we said in the
6343 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: I think as well your diagram of the program schedule, we had looked at 52 hours of voice tracking, but this schedule outlines when the voice tracking would be.
6344 So I don't think I need to ask that
question, but in your application you state at 7.3, "The proposed FM
station will utilize the TCB News network and the radio news network to cover
breaking news, current affairs, sports, regional events, and news specials." You also specify that a
6345 MR. HUNSPERGER: Well, it will be, of course, with the staff
that we have there. They will have the
6346 Also our announcers are, just as much as our news people, involved in what's going on in the specific markets that they're in, so they all are fully aware that if something needs to be reported, they will report it for that market.
6347 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: I'm looking at your schedule and I think a deficiency response on July 21 you indicated that you will not schedule newscasts on the weekend, at least until your news department expands. Can you give us an idea when you will be able to provide weekend news and how you will, in the meantime, keep listeners informed on news, weather, and sports, if there is no weekend newscasts as such?
6348 MR. HUNSPERGER: Well, the weekend announcers will obviously take care of that for the first year. It's something that I've definitely thought about, especially through a lot of the questioning that we've had through the hearings, that we probably wouldn't have a problem scheduling newscasts on the weekends in year two.
6349 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: In year two?
6350 MR. HUNSPERGER: Correct.
6351 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: So if we connect that, then, to your newsroom and you haven't provided, I think, enough information on the size of the newsroom and the staffing news reporter. You may have added a little more information today, so could you clarify what at the start you will have as a newsroom and news staff and programming staff?
6352 MR. HUNSPERGER: Once again, it's basically comprised ‑‑ we have a small staff. Most of our ‑‑ all of our radio stations operate with a small staff. We try to be very conservative. We're not one of the giants in the market that can employ 20 people. We have to be very conservative with the people that we do have.
6353 Our newsroom is ‑‑ in this day and age with technology, when we say newsroom it totally looks different from what it did five, ten, fifteen years ago when we had, you know ‑‑ I remember when I first got into the radio you had to rip the wire and there was actually staff that was there and doing that on a constant basis. For us, we utilize the resources of the radio news, and, of course, the rest of the people within our radio stations in order to accomplish that. So we basically wear a lot of hats.
6354 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: But how many staff will be in the
6355 MR. HUNSPERGER: Well, there would be one person part time in the first year, and then that person would be full time in year two.
6356 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Part time. And do you feel that's sufficient to provide 6.6 hours of news, weather and sports?
6357 MR. HUNSPERGER: In combination with our
6358 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: So if
we look at ‑‑ and you mentioned that again today, full slate
of news programming using our own staff in
6359 MR. HUNSPERGER: Correct.
6360 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: So how can you assure us, then, that the news
will be pertinent to
6361 MR. HUNSPERGER: All of our ‑‑ all of our
announcers, whether they be just regular DJs or news people, are talking about
what's going on and what is relevant to that particular market. It's
happening right now in
6362 We're ensuring that the people in
6363 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: So if I'm looking, just to be sure I
understand, spoken word breakdown
6364 MR. HUNSPERGER: I believe it says 40 percent.
6365 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Forty percent. And that would be that one half ‑‑ well, half a person, person part time that would be doing that.
6366 MR. HUNSPERGER: Correct.
6367 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: That clearly involves synergies with ‑‑ with your existing stations and clearly programming synergies will be realized. Can you provide us with details on any other synergies which you see, particularly in the areas of voice tracking and traffic?
6368 MR. HUNSPERGER: I mean, wherever possible, we're going to use
6369 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: So the 52 hours of voice tracking, in
speaking with other applicants' voice tracking, will be done locally to a great
extent. Your voice tracking would likely
be done in
6370 MR. HUNSPERGER: Some of it, correct.
6371 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Can you give us a sense of the proportion? Starting in year one, and then I realize you're going to evolve, but in the first couple of years, for example.
6372 MR. HUNSPERGER: It's difficult to put it into, you know, exactly what percentage of the people in Saskatoon are going to be doing that voice tracking at this point in time. It's something that we're going to have to develop once we get into the market.
6373 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Okay, thank you. We're going to move on now to the religious programs, which are ‑‑ I have the list and I'm assuming the brokered programs are the ‑‑ at least at the start, would be the programs listed on the chart you gave us, such as Focus on the Family, Insight For Living, Back to the Bible, et cetera. Those are the programs we're talking about at this moment. And I think, Mr. Hunsperger, you explained that they're not Canadian and that you don't, at this point, have any Canadian brokered religious programming available?
6374 MR. HUNSPERGER: Right.
6375 Those that are listed there are not Canadian even though they all do have Canadian offices and staff, and many times we work with these programmers. There are sometimes programs that they develop that are US oriented and would not be sufficient or reasonable to play on a Canadian station. And they revised those and Canadianized those with the Canadian staffs that they have.
6376 For example, Focus on the Family,
Insight For Living, both of their headquarter offices in
6377 So they do do those kind of things to try to make sure we do not want to have their programs come across in any way, shape, or form as a US scenario, and there are some of the subjects that they talk about most of the time that are universal, and so we don't have a problem with that. But when that happens, the Canadian offices usually take care of those issues for us.
6378 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you.
6379 It helps us understand your approach to the brokered programming. And just on that point, we mentioned 15 hours when we were discussing the spoken word breakdown, and in your deficiencies you talk about planning to add five additional hours in year two and another five in year three up to 25 per week. In adding the brokered programming, will you take the same approach?
6380 MR. HUNSPERGER: Absolutely.
6381 I mean, we develop personal relationships with these people, that's why we have been able, as we have mentioned before, to so far keep a clean track record and make sure that we don't end up with egg in our face. As best we can, I mean, that probably is going to happen to us sooner or later, but we try the best we can. I go down on a yearly basis to meet with these broadcasters. I go to their headquarters, I visited where they broadcast and let them know what's going on on the Canadian scene and the Canadian market. And we keep very close contact.
6382 So how it ‑‑ and
we also keep close contact, there is kind of a three‑pronged
relationship. One is with the agencies,
either Eaglecom come out of
6383 So with those agencies we keep a very close relationship. They know what's going on with their station, they know what's going on with these broadcasters as well, and then we also make sure that we have a relationship, not only with the agencies, but also with these broadcasters to try to do the best we can to facilitate our listening audience and make sure that what's happening here, even though it's largely as we have stated is for revenue, is ‑‑ is going to be fitting and appropriate for our kind of programming.
6384 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Continuing on this question. We can address the issue of balance, but I have here what you tabled in the reply of Phase IV, and I'm assuming should I ‑‑ should we assume to bring that forward to this application?
6385 MR. HUNSPERGER: Yes, no problem. We would abide by what we had said yesterday,
the same would apply for
6386 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Then could you ‑‑ there is one thing to clarify. I have two points, the first is on the second page, second to last paragraph, "We are willing to accept a condition of licence capping the amount of brokered spoken word programming at a maximum of 15 hours per week for the term of the licence, 11 percent of our 126 hours." You still agree to this condition of licence?
6387 MR. HUNSPERGER: Yes, we do.
6388 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: I have another question, but just while we're
on this particular document, you also clarified your position on local
programming, including voice track programming, which we just discussed, would
the same commitments apply in
6389 MR. HUNSPERGER: Yes they would.
6390 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Finally, on the issue of the balanced
programming, could I ask you to just speak to the ‑‑ you will
be, according to this document, agreeing to a
6391 MR. HUNSPERGER: Well, as we've mentioned, we're going to, you know, bring in the telephone line and get comments and even seek after comments of our listeners, and then we're going to air those comments on the station. And if there is ever a program that is ‑‑ we're not getting any kind of feedback to help us on that balance, then we will, as a staff, our staff will search after that balance and seek it. Whether we bring in some guests from the community to speak on that subject or whether we actually go out and do the research ourselves. Most likely it would be where we would invite someone who would be able to give the other point of view or points of view in that matter, we would invite them to come on the air and express themselves.
6392 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Regarding the open line programming, I'm sure you're aware of the Commission's regulations regarding open line programming. Do you have in place mechanisms to, for example, a delay mechanism or supervision of ways to supervise the on air comment?
6393 MR. HUNSPERGER: Yes, this is not open line, this is recorded.
6394 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: It will be recorded?
6395 MR. HUNSPERGER: Yes, it would be recorded and then we would play back.
6396 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Should open line be an approach you would like to use to provide balance, would you have in place the mechanisms?
6397 MR. HUNSPERGER: Yes.
6398 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Who would be responsible and who will be responsible as well for the recorded as well as any possible open line programming and the monitoring thereof?
6399 MR. HUNSPERGER: Well, obviously there is two people that are responsible for the ‑‑ on the open line. One of them obviously is our Program Director who is responsible for anything that goes over the air. And the other one we would look to our engineering to make sure that the mechanisms are in place and working properly, you know, to handle that if we did do an open line.
6400 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you very much.
6401 I'll move on to Canadian talent
development. There is ‑‑
you have committed to spending at least 16,000 a year to support the Vibe
Gospel Music Project. You provided a
cost breakdown in the context of our discussion in the
6402 MR. HUNSPERGER: Yes.
6403 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: The same?
6404 MR. HUNSPERGER: Yes.
6405 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: So perhaps we could resubmit the same cost breakdown, the contents is just discussion. And should the Commission decide that some of these costs do not qualify as direct contributions to develop a Canadian talent, would you be prepared to re‑direct these costs to ineligible initiative as set out in Appendix 1 of Public Notice 1991‑11?
6406 MR. HUNSPERGER: Yes.
We would, as I mentioned yesterday, we would like to approach Dionne
Smith and see if she can make adjustments that would satisfy the
Commission. If there is something in the
Shai that doesn't satisfy the Commission, we would want to see if she could
make those adjustments, and I'm sure in talking with Dionne that she would do
everything she could to make sure that that would happen because I guess we
really believe in what's happening in the Shai movement and how it's
happening. I have an e‑mail here
from Kelly Bittner(ph) who's from Stereotrap, which is a rock band out of
6407 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Madam Chair?
6408 THE CHAIRPERSON: I don't think it matters. You do what you want. I mean, it's your evidence.
6409 MR. HUNSPERGER: Okay. All right. I will just read it. It's from Kelly Bittner from Stereotrap. "The Shai Awards have helped Stereotrap a great deal. The exposure to industry professionals and to new audience that the Shai Awards provides is something that most young independent bands cannot do on their own. The vision of Dionne Smith to see the Shai Awards grow and to be a steppingstone for Canadian Christian artists is admirable and we feel it is effective towards making Christian music credible and respected in the Canadian music industry.
6410 From our first experience on the New Artists Showcase competition to performing at last year's awards ceremony in Mississauga, we feel that the Shai Awards has come a long way in trying to promote Canadian acts and not just the bands and artists who have recording contracts, but the independent artists and bands like us. We feel as though we are a part of the Shai Awards and we would love an opportunity to work with their team again. Kelly Bittner."
6411 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you.
6412 Finally, the area I wanted to touch on was the economic impact, the economic issues and your plans, and perhaps also to give you a chance to comment on the discussion we have been having about the market with the applicants. Specifically to your application, you indicate nine percent of your advertising revenues in year one would come from existing stations. How would you assess the potential of the religious format or your Christian music format to attract new advertisers to radio compared to other formats?
6413 MR. HUNSPERGER: I'll give that to Mr. Moffat.
6414 MR. MOFFAT: Based on our experience in
6415 As far as impact on incumbents or
other new licensees in the marketplace, I see it as very minimal, our impact,
because if anything the revenue that we would attain would be as an add on to
an existing advertiser. For example, a
major General Motors dealer perhaps who is advertising on three
6416 So they may increase their budgets to add our specific niche market to their marketing plan.
6417 MR. HUNSPERGER: And we'd literally get no national revenue. Very, very small, if any, national revenue. Once in a while target broadcasting or an agency sends us some ads, but it's very small, very minimal. Once in a while we'll get a Tim Hortons commercial on our stations, Wal‑Mart once in a while, but basically we have to go after the new markets.
6418 By the way, one of the things that
I would like to enter into this is that one of the bookstores ‑‑
there is two book stores called Scott's Parables. One is in
6419 One of the meetings that I had when
I went to
6420 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: So as we have mentioned ‑‑ asked other applicants in terms of a market with six stations now. In fact, some of the music touching on the genre of music that you would be presenting, although in more from the Christian music artists, do you feel you can compete?
6421 MR. HUNSPERGER: Yes, we do.
6422 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Those are my questions, Madam chair.
6423 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
6424 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: And thank you very much.
6425 THE CHAIRPERSON: Vice‑chair Arpin.
6426 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
6427 This morning when we heard Standard
Radio in their oral presentation, they had the following quote, "The EZ
Rock format is unique and what we call family friendly. It is a format that especially appeals to
women and families and allows them to enjoy the stations without the worry of
being embarrassed or offended by lyrics or verbal content." Could we hear some of the same type of music
on Shine? There is an EZ Rock station in
6428 MR. HUNSPERGER: There is ‑‑ I could probably
count the number of songs that would cross over on one of my hands between what
EZ Rock in
6429 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Even if it's family friendly and even if it's done not to offend anybody through lyrics?
6430 MR. HUNSPERGER: They advertise that in
6431 But they won't be playing the same music as we're playing, and like Malcolm says, once in a while there are some artists that there is a crossover, but very small.
6432 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: But the two formats are female driven? Yours is a bit younger in terms of the demographic, yours is say 32 to 33, theirs is 41, but we're talking the same generation of people with ‑‑ women with kids.
6433 MR. HUNSPERGER: What happened with us in
6434 So, you know, there is a bit of that kind of similarity, and yet there is a total difference between our kind of music and theirs, and if all the stations in Saskatoon would be family friendly, that would be fantastic for us.
6435 I do just want to add one more thing too, that we're talking very similar styles of music, but the artists and the lyrics are completely different. Like I don't want us to be put into the same category as EZ Rock in terms of the music format, because it is absolutely ‑‑ it is completely different when it comes to the artists that we're dealing with.
6436 When I mention that there is probably a handful of artists that we share, it's basically the crossover artists that are coming out of our genre that get some national more wide spread ‑‑ I use Mercy Me. They had a terrific song called, I Can Only Imagine, that spread across a number of different formats, but for the most part I would say 99 percent of what we play is going to be completely different to anything that's in the Saskatoon market.
6437 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Thank you, Mr. Hunsperger, Mr. Hunt, Madam Chair.
6438 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Williams.
6439 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good morning, Mr. Hunsperger and panel.
6440 Much has been made of the large and
rapidly growing Aboriginal population in
6441 MR. HUNSPERGER: I would be more than happy to.
6442 We have thought about this and
talked about this a lot, particularly when we were up in the
6443 And one of the things that we've come up with that both the Aboriginals feel would be very positive and we would feel would be very positive is if we could find some young people that are ‑‑ have the ability to come on and be our on air personalities on our radio station we would be overwhelmed and very grateful for that kind of scenario.
6444 I was just talking with some of the
applicants that have applied here in saying, say, do you know of any Aboriginal
young people that want to be on air and would want to be on air in a Christian
contemporary music type of station? And
Debra, back here I talked to her, and she said yes, she feels that there might
be a young lady here in
6445 So we have exchanged cards, we have even asked the ARV people as well, that situation, and if we could get one of these staff members to be Aboriginal in our applications and for our, you know, if we get some of these new licences in these markets, we feel that they would be then a model or a role model for some of the Aboriginal young people and we would feel that that would be the best way that we could do this right now.
6446 On our southern Gospel station we,
you know, one of the artists is Jody Brown Indian Family, and they're a
southern gospel group and do very well and they get a lot of air play on our
6447 So we are striving to try to see how that can take place. And right now our biggest answer would be that if we could get a young person that would want to be on air and be one of our on air personalities in these stations, that would be phenomenal.
6448 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have you been successful in doing that in the
years that you've been operating in
6449 MR. HUNSPERGER: We have not.
We have not found, I mean, even, you know, talking with these people
even when I ‑‑ here in
6450 But we're not going to give up and we even suggested that if there are young people in the Aboriginal community that want to be a part of our type of programming and would be interested, we would be interested in looking at helping them in their education to get that done, whether it be through scholarship or whatever, to accomplish that. We have done some of that already with some young people.
6451 For example, our engineer in
6452 So I asked him what he wanted to do
in life. He didn't really know. I said, I notice you're interested in, you
know, tinkling with stuff and putting stuff together. I said, would you be interested in going to
6453 So we would hope that that same thing could happen with the Aboriginal community.
6454 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Hunsperger. That's my question.
6455 THE CHAIRPERSON: On that latter point, the issue of recruiting Aboriginal First Nations people into broadcasting is becoming a very serious issue, and it appears that the practices being done by some people, Mr. Rawlinson included, is go to high school career fairs.
6456 MR. HUNSPERGER: Pardon me?
6457 THE CHAIRPERSON: Is to go to high school career fairs. Because there is, as Ms Charles stated, a real dearth, an absolute dearth.
6458 MR. HUNSPERGER: That's a very good suggestion, thank you.
6459 THE CHAIRPERSON: Now, I must have been mixed up last time. Let me try to do this again. When you have your morning people here, your morning show people here, you will have the 98 hours as you said. But you're not going to have them here for a while?
6460 MR. HUNT: From day one we will have them here or in
6461 THE CHAIRPERSON: So you are going to have them here, the only issue is the new staff?
6462 MR. HUNT: Well, we have ‑‑
6463 THE CHAIRPERSON: Half and then one.
6464 MR. HUNT: Exactly.
6465 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. I got it, okay. So when I look at your economic data, the other is the brokered income. Have you got that, your projections? It's Appendix ‑‑ no, it is my Appendix 3, it would be in your application, 4.1 of your application.
6466 MR. HUNT: Yes.
6467 THE CHAIRPERSON: Oh, you got it. How did you calculate the local income? How did you figure out ‑‑ was it based on the population or something?
6468 MR. MOFFAT: I'll address that, Madam Commissioner. When we did our projections, target
projections, I looked at the
6469 THE CHAIRPERSON: Up to 23, yes.
6470 MR. MOFFAT: So we based our revenue projections on a
6471 THE CHAIRPERSON: Based on your share.
6472 MR. MOFFAT: And that audience share is based on ‑‑
we're not measured in
6473 THE CHAIRPERSON: And the other contra, what does that consist of?
6474 MS GILLESPIE: Contra advertising is what we do in exchange for contra expense, and primarily that is promotional material.
6475 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. And help me because I actually have never listened to the brokered programming. They do solicit monies, don't they?
6476 MR. HUNSPERGER: Not really. What they do is offer books, those kind of things.
6477 THE CHAIRPERSON: All right. Okay. And they pay you based on the size of the population?
6478 MR. HUNSPERGER: No, they pay us on what we charge them.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
6479 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Thank you very much, and you have your two minutes.
6480 MR. HUNSPERGER: To Shine?
6481 THE CHAIRPERSON: Sometimes I say it, sometimes I don't.
6482 MR. HUNSPERGER: Well, we were hoping you would say it for us
6483 THE CHAIRPERSON: All right. You've got your two minutes to shine.
6484 MR. HUNSPERGER: Thank you.
6485 First of all, we want to thank you
so much for allowing us the opportunity to apply for a specialty FM radio
station, Gospel music radio station in
6486 And we would be very honoured and would try to do our very best to be a broadcaster that would be able to help Saskatoon and Saskatchewan, and we're looking forward to that possibility and I know many of the residents are as well.
6487 So we thank you so much for allowing this opportunity to share with you today.
6488 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
6489 I think I'm going to be lynched if I don't call a lunch break. We are running seriously behind, I must say, should have started at a quarter to eight. If we can come back at 1:30, and I do ask everyone to try to be brief in their answers here on in.
6490 Thank you.
‑‑‑ Recess at 1245 / Suspension à 1245
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1328 / Reprise à 1328
6491 THE CHAIRPERSON: Madam Secretary ...?
6492 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
6493 Before we proceed I would just like
to indicate for the record that Touch Canada has filed their CTD cost breakdown
6494 The other commitments that have
been filed with the Commission are two of the numbered companies, 1182743 Alberta
Limited. There are letters clarifying
their CTD commitments with respect to factor and the Medicine Hat Jazz
Festival. This is the application for
6495 And we will now proceed with items
21 and 22 on the agenda, which are applications by Radio CJVR Limited for
licenses to operate two English language FM commercial radio programming
6496 One of the new station would operate on frequency 89.7 MHz, channel 209C1, with an effective radiated of 100,000 watts, non‑directional antenna/antenna height of 179.1 metres. The other station would operate on frequency 106.1 MHz, channel 291C1, with an effective radiated power of 100,000 watts, non‑directional antenna/antenna height of 179.1 metres.
6497 Appearing for the Applicant is Mr. Ken Singer, who will introduce his colleagues. You will then have 30 minutes to make your presentation on both applications.
6498 Mr. Singer ...?
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
6499 MR. SINGER: Thank you. And good afternoon Madam Chair, Commissioners, CRTC staff. Thank you for allowing us this opportunity to appear before you for the third time on this very busy week.
6500 Before we begin our presentation
for our two new FM licences in
6501 On my far left in the front row is
Dave Marcoux. Dave has 24 years
6502 To his right is Kevin Gemmell, recently appointed station manager and sales manager of our two Melfort radio stations CJVR‑FM and CKJH‑AM. Kevin has been with our company for over ten years.
6503 On my far right is Corrin Harper, a
partner at Insightrix Research of
6504 To her left is Jessica Schnell,
Director of Research Services at Insightrix Research. Jessica has a training in a wide variety of
analysis techniques and earned her Bachelor of Science degree with great
distinction at the
6505 Next is Dean Sinclair, a broadcast veteran whose 30‑year career includes programming, on‑air sales and senior management experience. Dean has provided input and direction for our proposed classic rock musical format.
6506 To his left is Linda Rheaume,
Administrative Manager for Radio CJVR's two stations in Melfort, and our new FM
6507 And to my immediate right is the President and owner of Radio CJVR, Jean Fabro.
6508 MR. FABRO: Madam Chair and members of the Commission,
Radio CJVR is pleased to appear before you today seeking approval to establish
two new FM programming undertakings on frequencies 89.7 and 106.1 to serve
Saskatoon and surrounding communities.
These applications are, without question, the most important initiatives
ever undertaken by our company in four decades of continuous broadcasting
6509 Each of the proposed new stations,
Classic 89 and Oldies 107, are vital components to CJVR's strategic broadcast
6510 Approval of these applications will
bring much needed program diversity, listener choice and competitive balance
among other important benefits to
6511 The Commission's call for
6512 CJVR, like many of its independent radio peers, arrived at a crossroads some time ago in terms of our broadcasting future. Many opted to sell to larger broadcast organizations and leave the business and its growing challenges and complexities to others.
6513 CJVR chose not to sell and we began
to lay the groundwork for growth in our radio business by increasing its
broadcast holdings and critical mass in both
6514 The first priority was to stabilize CJVR‑AM by giving it the necessary financial, technical and human resources to improve its operation. Next, a sister FM station was added to increase diversity and listener choice within the coverage area, while further stabilizing the AM station by applying shared operating synergies.
6515 Having developed the Melfort
stations to their full maturity, CJVR has entered the next critical phase of
it's strategic broadcast plan. That is a
phase that includes the acquisition of and launch of CIXM in
6516 As career broadcasters, CJVR is
confident in the economic future of
6517 MR. SINGER: Madam Chair, Saskatoon is more to CJVR than just another radio market applied for, one more licence ‑‑ or one more licence to add to a growing chain of stations.
6519 If approved for Classic 89 and
Oldies 106, CJVR comes to the
6520 CJVR, for example, has maintained a
full‑time sales office in
6521 I'm proud to say that CJVR's AM station CK750 has been the official radio voice of the University of Saskatchewan Huskies football team for over ten years and retains the broadcasting rights to all of their home and away games through to the end of the 2014 season, and we are the host broadcaster for the Vanier Cup, which will be played in Saskatoon on the 25th of this month.
6522 The live play‑by‑play
broadcasts reach alumni and Huskie fans throughout the province, across
6523 Further, in response to the University's fundraising campaign, Thinking the World of Our Future, CJVR, on behalf of the Fabro family, donated $275,000 to the cause. Part of the donation will support the Huskies athletic programs, and the balance will help support additional upgrades to Griffith Stadium.
6524 While these are but a few examples
of the kinds of ongoing relationships that CJVR has fostered over the years,
they serve to underline the close affinity between our Melfort radio stations,
the City of
6525 From the time the Fabro family
acquired CJVR as business people and entrepreneurs, it was obvious that
expanding to other
6526 Given our close proximity to the
largest radio market in
6527 MR. FABRO: Madam Chair and Commissioners, one of the many challenges facing the Commission today in today's broadcast environment is to strike a balance between preserving the diversity of news voices in the market and the benefits of permitting increased ownership consolidation.
6528 The issues of diversity and consolidation, in our view, can be offset by licensing motivated, independent broadcasters like CJVR, with the credentials to be a viable licensing alternative to a larger corporate interest and even more concentration.
6529 It is our belief that the balance
weighs heavily on the side of concentration in the
6530 Approval of CJVR's proposed new FM
stations will help correct the diversity and ownership concentration issues by
establishing competitive balance within
6531 Of further concern to CJVR is the
fact that 26 of 35 English language commercial radio stations in
6532 MR. GEMMELL: Madam Chair, based on our own intimate knowledge of the local market, the results of extensive consumer demands research and the echos of dissatisfaction from the listening public, it is clearly evident that Saskatoon's local radio spectrum needs new blood.
6533 One frustrated listener in her
letter of intervention to the Commission stated: "I know many people, including myself,
who have gone to satellite radio because of their lack of satisfaction with the
current radio stations in
6534 CJVR's research of the
6535 Some 70 percent say they would
listen to more radio if the programming they liked was available. 65 percent agree that most
6536 In this regard, CJVR's proposed new
classic rock and oldies unduplicated formats, if approved, will provide
significant musical and spoken word diversity and listener choice to meet the
unfulfilled needs and stated preferences of
6537 MR. SINGER: Madam Chair, CJVR's ability to compete with multiple station operators is hampered by the fact that we currently do not have access to larger urban markets, like the majority of other applicants.
6538 By comparison, CJVR, as a heritage Saskatchewan broadcaster, serves a widely spread population of 150,000 people living in more than 100 largely rural communities, ranging from Nipawin in the northeast, to Tisdale in the east, to Hudson Bay in the far east.
6539 As such, CJVR cannot afford to idly
sit and watch competitors pass us by. We
need to grow our company now, while there are still significant developmental
opportunities like those created by the Commission's call for
6540 Approval of our proposed new FM
stations will have a very positive impact on CJVR's broadcast operations well beyond
the urban boundaries of
Stabilize and maintain the high quality of existing broadcasting services that
its Melfort stations have been providing to northeast
To help compensate for the erosion of its listeners and revenue base caused by
the combination of
‑ To bolster the financial viability of its Melfort AM/FM stations, whose revenues have been severely impacted by lower power undertakings operating within their regional coverage area.
‑ To enable CJVR to realize more of the common operating efficiencies enjoyed by multiple station operators through shared synergies.
To enhance CJVR's ability to compete on more equal terms with larger broadcast
‑ To enable CJVR to attract and retain new and experienced broadcast talent by providing them with fresh challenges and greater opportunities within a growing company dedicated to radio.
To maintain the voice of independent broadcasters within today's milieu of
ownership concentration in markets like
‑ To extend to other markets CJVR's brand of radio, offering great music, locally relevant/community driven spoken‑word programming, and a firm commitment to the development and exposure of Canadian talent.
6541 MR. GEMMELL: Madam Chair, in response to the call, CJVR
engaged Insightrix Research Services to undertake a consumer demand study and
economic analysis of
6542 Results of IRS study underline both
the demand for new FM services to meet the needs and listener preferences of an
underserved 35 to 54 demographic, and a vibrant and growing market economy that
can readily support new FM radio undertakings with minimal impact to existing
6543 In preparing the business plans for Saskatoon and Regina, CJVR recognized the challenge that any new entrant would face in either market, by having to compete with two ownership groups, each of whom operate three stations in the market.
6544 CJVR concluded that in order to compete in such a concentrated environment, it was necessary to develop a strategy that would help negate the competitive advantage enjoyed by the two incumbent ownership groups.
6545 After a careful review of the IRS
studies and its own knowledge of the local radio markets, CJVR concluded that
the best competitive approach for both
6546 MS HARPER: Madam Chair, essentially the IRS study
underlined the degree to which
6547 Further, the study points to the
changing trends within
6548 This trend reserves itself, however,
within the 40 to 44 age group, and reflects a major increase in the 45‑54
year‑old component, which is the cohort of
6550 Hence, in determining which combination of formats would be most compatible in terms of diversity and listener choice, programming and having the least impact on existing stations, it was evident to CJVR that classic rock and oldies made the most sense.
6551 As an integral part of its consumer demand study, IRS presented a 15‑item battery of music genres to 500 respondents aged 18 to 54 in seeking to determine how often they listened to each of the music styles.
6552 The IRS music popularity survey indicated that while the prime audience for CJVR's proposed classic rock station is the 35 to 44 age group at 81 percent, nearly 68 percent of those that were aged 45 to 54 were interested in classic rock.
6553 Similarly, while the prime interest in the proposed oldies station is the 45 to 54 age group at 68 percent, over 50 percent of the 35 to 44 year olds were interested in oldies music and would listen to the station.
6554 MR. MARCOUX: Madam Chair, the approval of CJVR's Classic 89 and Oldies 106 will largely meet the needs of the 34‑44 and 45‑54 demographic spectrums.
6555 By serving this important sector of
6556 From CJVR's perspective, the music
and spoken word initiatives of Classic 89 and Oldies 106 will also
6557 MR. GEMMELL: Madam Chair, in dealing with Classic 89's
music, and the level of diversity it will bring to the
6558 While scoring very well across all age groups, the 35 to 44 group was the highest at 81 percent, followed by the 25 to 34 group at 74 percent, and the 45 to 54 group at nearly 68 percent.
6559 Taking the results of the IRS
survey and measuring them against the music formats currently available in
6560 CJVR, in programming Classic 89 musically will specialize in playing classic rock, including milestone rock albums. The play list will feature music by international artists such as Tom Petty, Pink Floyd, Santana, The Eagles, The Rolling Stones, The Beatles and Canadian artists like Bryan Adams, The Guess Who, Neil Young, Tragically Hip and Streetheart, to name but a few.
6561 We would like to provide you with a sense of how Classic 89 will sound and feel musically with the following montage.
‑‑‑ Audio clip / Clip audio
6562 MR. SINCLAIR: As a means of creating even more musical diversity and enhancing both established and developing Canadian artists, CJVR will produce in studio a daily 20‑minute program called Canadians on Track, which will run Monday to Sunday at 3:00.
6563 A second programming initiative entitled Saskatchewan Rocks is a 60‑minute program that again will be produced in studio and is scheduled to run in prime time on Saturday evening from 8 to 9:00.
6564 Among the key findings of the IRS demand study is the fact that 76 percent of respondents on hearing a description of the proposed Classic 89's musical and spoken word programming, stated they were very or somewhat likely to listen to the station.
6565 Within the various age groups being targeted, 86 percent of respondents aged 35 to 44 indicated they would likely listen to the new station, followed by nearly 80 percent of those aged 45 to 54, and 65 percent of those aged 25 to 34.
6566 In keeping with the fact that 40
plus is the fastest growing demographic in
6567 Currently those wanting to listen to oldies music have to tune into a variety of stations with formats ranging from CJMK's adult contemporary to CJWW's country information. The problem is that none of these stations play more than a small sampling of oldies music.
6568 Essentially, as a dedicated oldies station, rather than some hybrid variety, Oldies 106 will feature hits from the '50s and '60s by international artists Elvis Presley, The Beach Boys, The Beatles and Buddy Holly, and Canadian artists like Joni Mitchell, Paul Anka, Bobby Curtola, Gordon Lightfoot, Andy Kim and The Poppy Family, to name a few.
6569 We would like to provide you with a sense of how Oldies 106 will sound and feel musically with the following montage.
‑‑‑ Audio clip / Clip audio
6570 MR. SINCLAIR: Oldies 106 will also feature specialized nostalgia programming for the 45 plus demographic, such as big band music from the '40s. There will also be an album component to the station featuring classic albums by the biggest artists of the '50s and '60s.
6571 In creating even more musical diversity, CJVR will produce in studio two special musical programs, namely The Great Canadian Song Book and Canadian Folk, both of which will profile and play the music of Canadian pop and rock artists of the past, as well as Canadian folk music artists.
6572 MR. GEMMELL: Madam Chair, with respect to spoken word programming, the IRS study noted that listener needs and preferences included local news, weather, road conditions and closures, school closings and bus cancellations, updates on local community events and activities, national news and sports scores.
6573 On the cultural side,
6574 That beginning with daily news
coverage, Classic 89 will bring an independent news voice to the
6575 Classic 89 will employ a news director and four full‑time news reporters. The station will broadcast local news at the top of the hour and every half hour in the mornings, and again during selected hours throughout the day, as well as on weekends.
6576 In all, the station will provide over five hours of scheduled newscasts per week, plus additional surveillance material when necessary and as it becomes available.
6577 MR. SINGER: Madam Chair, CJVR will reach out in an inclusive fashion to the rapidly growing Aboriginal population, and the increasing number of ethnic groups, among others, and through a series of unique spoken word initiatives, build bridges of understanding between people by giving them a radio voice.
6578 This will be achieved a number of ways, including the recruitment of a network of correspondents who will assist in providing Classic 89 with information on events and activities specific to their own communities.
6579 These 90‑second spots known as Community Connections will be featured four times daily, along with Culturally Speaking information snippets on current and upcoming events and activities that will be highlighted ever hour.
6580 Included among the special features that will be incorporated daily into Classic 89's program schedule are such programs as Saskatoon Lifestyle, City Beat, Live from the U of S, School of the Day and Listener Feedback.
6581 CJVR, in recognition of the
dramatic growth of the Aboriginal communities in both
6582 As such CJVR has retained the services of Mr. Harrison Thunderchild, a distinguished member of the Aboriginal community, an educator, and a prominent member of the Office of the Treaty Commission Speakers Bureau.
6583 Mr. Thunderchild has agreed to serve as CJVR's Aboriginal special program coordinator. In this capacity he will help produce and host a series of features to be known as The Bridge.
6584 These two‑minute features will run twice daily and share the Aboriginal community's culture, highlight its successes, and help foster greater understanding and awareness of Native issues and concerns.
6585 In addition, Mr. Thunderchild will contribute to a special 15‑minute segment on the Sunday news magazine show, A Saskatoon Perspective, which runs on Oldies 106.
6586 MR. GEMMELL: Madam Chair and Commissioners, Oldies 106 in addition to delivering great music, will provide it's currently underserved 45‑54 audience with a blend of locally relevant spoken word programming that will address their news and informational priorities.
6587 Further to the news, information and special features programs that Oldies 106 will share with Classic 89, there are a number of special features that are exclusive to Oldies 106. These include Prairie Mosaics, This Week on Campus, Huskies Football, This Week in Politics and Stock Market Report.
6588 As well, the news magazine show, A
Saskatoon Perspective, is a 60‑minute production that will run Sundays at
11 a.m. The program will feature four 15‑minute
segments. One segment will be devoted to
the Aboriginal community, a second to
6589 MR. FABRO: Madam Chair, in our applications for
6590 Approval of Classic 89 and Oldies
106 will yield a minimum of $3 million in direct expenditures, along with an
indirect on‑air expenditure budget of 2 million. The combined 5 million in direct and indirect
expenditures will have a profoundly beneficial impact on
6591 While my family is proud of CJVR's
achievements for Canadian talent to this point, approval of our
6592 MR. SINGER: Madam Chair, I would draw attention to the
significant commitment that CJVR has made to the Aboriginal community through
dedicated scholarship funds for broadcast journalism and music in both the
6594 Given the dramatic growth of the
Aboriginal population in
6595 It was essentially within that spirit that CJVR, in consultation with Aboriginal educators like Mr. Thunderchild, among others, has developed an Aboriginal scholarship fund to assist those qualified students interested in pursuing careers in broadcast journalism and music in realizing their objectives.
6596 To ensure the Aboriginal scholarship fund yields maximum benefits to the Aboriginal community, CJVR will work closely with community leaders, educators and organizations relative to the Aboriginal community for ongoing advice and direction.
6597 MR. FABRO: Madam Chair, CJVR's Aboriginal scholarship objective is very much in keeping with my family's passion and commitment to help make a difference in the lives of talented young Canadians.
6598 This is further exemplified by the Horizons Unlimited initiative which is founded on the basic philosophy that talented youth should not have their goals and dreams limited or sidetracked by a lack of resources and proper mentoring.
6599 Through the financial assistance
and attendant support structure inherent within Horizons Unlimited,
6600 The total direct expenditure budget, based on approval of both Classic 89 and Oldies 106 totals $3 million as follows:
‑ Aboriginal scholarships $535,000
‑ U of R Faculty of Arts journalism $452,500
‑ Horizons Unlimited $586,000
‑ Music Business 101 $172,000
‑ Opening Acts $492,000
‑ FACTOR/CAB Talent Fund $120,000
6601 MR. MARCOUX: Madam Chair, a recent supplement in the Globe
and Mail stated, "
6602 Some comments, while ruling the day for doomsayers brigade, succinctly describes the momentum of Saskatchewan's diversified economy as evidenced by the fact that its economic growth rate has outpaced the national average for three consecutive years according to Stats Canada.
6603 The local market economies of
6604 Both cities are beneficiaries of the rural to urban population shift that is occurring, and likely to continue at the expense of many small rural communities, like those our Melfort stations are dependent on for their revenue.
6605 An examination of some of the key
economic indicators relative to
6606 MR. GEMMELL: With respect to the local broadcast economy,
CJVR concluded that 16 percent or 16.64 million of the $104 million of
available advertising revenues in the
6607 Further to our market study,
however, as noted in a report filed relative to these proceedings, of the entire
province's radio advertising expenditures of 64 million, about 56 percent or 36
million is captured by all radio in
6608 MR. SINGER: Madam Chair, based on the musical and spoken
word programming initiatives for both Classic 89 and Oldies 106, should the
Commission licence this dynamic duo of diversity,