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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS BEFORE
THE CANADIAN RADIO‑TELEVISION AND
TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES AVANT
CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION
ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES
VARIOUS BROADCAST APPLICATIONS /
PLUSIEURS DEMANDES EN RADIODIFFUSION
HELD AT: TENUE À:
Delta Regina Delta Regina
1919 Saskatchewan Drive 1919, promenade Saskatchewan
Regina, Saskatchewan Regina, Saskatchewan
October 31, 2006 le 31 octobre 2006
In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages
Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be
bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members
and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of
However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded
verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in
either of the official languages, depending on the language
spoken by the participant at the public hearing.
Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues
officielles, les procès‑verbaux pour le Conseil seront
bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des
membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience
publique ainsi que la table des matières.
Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu
textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée
et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues
officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le
participant à l'audience publique.
Canadian Radio‑television and
Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des
Transcript / Transcription
VARIOUS BROADCAST APPLICATIONS /
PLUSIEURS DEMANDES EN RADIODIFFUSION
BEFORE / DEVANT:
Barbara Cram Chairperson / Présidente
Michel Arpin Vice-Chair, Broadcasting / Vice‑président, radiodiffusion
Rita Cugini Commissioner / Conseillère
Ronald Williams Commissioner / Conseiller
Joan Pennefather Commissioner / Conseillère
ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS:
Chantal Boulet Secretary / Secrétaire
Leanne Bennett Legal Counsel /
Lyne Cape Hearing Manager /
Gérante de l'audience
HELD AT: TENUE À:
Delta Regina Delta Regina
1919 Saskatchewan Drive 1919, promenade Saskatchewan
Regina, Saskatchewan Regina, Saskatchewan
October 31, 2006 le 31 octobre 2006
- iv -
TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE / PARA
MEDICINE HAT - PHASE I (cont'd)
PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:
Rogers Broadcasting Limited 345 / 1766
Pat Lough (OBCI) 414 / 2031
MEDICINE HAT - PHASE II (458)
PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:
Lighthouse Broadcasting Limited 458 / 2182
Golden West Broadcasting Ltd. 459 / 2193
Radio CJVR Ltd. 460 / 2200
Harvard Broadcasting Inc. 464 / 2212
Rogers Broadcasting Limited 464 / 2218
MEDICINE HAT - PHASE III (465)
PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:
Alex Mair 465 / 2226
Aboriginal Media Education Fund 478 / 2274
Carpet One Medicine Hat 486 / 2303
MEDICINE HAT - PHASE IV (501)
PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:
Rogers Broadcasting Limited 502 / 2380
Vista Radio Ltd. 504 / 2395
1182743 Alberta Limited 504 / 2399
Radio CJVR Ltd. 505 / 2406
Golden West Broadcasting Ltd. 508 / 2418
- v -
TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE / PARA
REGINA - PHASE I (510)
PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:
Newcap Inc. 510 / 2438
Standard Radio Inc. 564 / 2645
Touch Canada Broadcasting Inc. 621 / 2911
Radio CJVR Ltd. 683 / 3276
‑‑‑ Upon commencing on Tuesday, October 31, 2006
at 0833 / L'audience débute le mardi 31 octobre
2006 à 0833
1761 THE CHAIRPERSON: Good morning on this Halloween.
1762 Madam Secretary...?
1763 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning, everyone.
will now proceed with item 8 on the agenda, which is an application by Rogers
Broadcasting Limited for a licence to operate an English‑language FM
radio programming undertaking in
1765 Appearing for the applicant is Mr. Gary Miles, who will introduce his colleagues, after which you will have 20 minutes for your presentation. Please go ahead.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
1766 MR. MILES: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, I am Gary Miles, CEO Radio, Rogers Broadcasting Limited. With me today, starting from my far left and your right, Leda MacLeod, business manager, radio, Ontario north; Alain Strati, vice‑president, regulatory affairs; Sarah Morton, operations manager, SONiCfm, and on my right, Kevin McKanna, executive vice‑president, radio, Alberta and Manitoba; Terry Voth, general manager, Lethbridge; and Angela Reimer, general sales manager, 660 News and the Fan 960 in Calgary.
are pleased to appear before you today to present our application for Rock 105,
a rock music station for
now, you've already heard from a number of applicants proposing to launch new
radio stations in a number of different formats. For a market like
1769 Content really is king, and our application for Rock 105 focuses on the need for strong, local programming. While that certainly includes traditional news, it is, by no means, limited to it. We've also proposed an innovative approach to local content focusing our efforts and resources on the establishment of a local production team, anticipating that they will develop and create segments that will inform and entertain listeners, whether on the air or on our website.
music fans are a bit of a different breed, and that's why it's critical that
every aspect of our station reflects their attitude and their point of view. Whether it's the morning show, our news
segments, or even the ads we sell, we want our listeners to know at all times
that they are tuned to a rock station.
If we don't, they will continue to go elsewhere accessing the growing
array of audio options provided by satellite radio, iPods, and the
Internet. In this kind of environment,
we know that each segment and element on Rock 105 must appeal to the interests
and programming style of rock music fans in
1771 We believe the radio industry is at a crossroads. New media technologies are breathing down our necks and striving to provide consumers with a new and improved commercial free or customizable version of what radio has been doing for years. How will we respond? Well, either we can limit ourselves to being just another option in a widening landscape of music technologies, or we can reinvigorate our programming strategies and more precisely distinguish and differentiate radio as a local content option.
with the best rock music, our station will establish itself as an important
source of local news, information, and entertainment, and as a vehicle for
community support and involvement. Our
unique approach to local programming starts with our newscasts. Local news, weather, traffic, and sports will
form the basis of our news programming, and the 105‑second Reality Check
will connect listeners to local news from the
1774 Perhaps a quick listen will give you a better idea of exactly what we mean.
‑‑‑ Audio Clip / Clip audio
MILES: Rock 105 will also use other
scheduled news segments: Our Rock News
features will incorporate an open‑concept format, covering anything from
local events to the latest industry trends and the hottest new artists. The Community Events Calendar and the Restaurant
and Pub Crawl will provide details about events and activities in the
1778 The success of TV programs such as the Rick Mercer Report or this Hour has 22 Minutes represents the impact this kind of approach can have. Although current topical and informative, these programs are really about entertaining their audiences. We want to develop a similar approach at Rock 105 with the Rock 105 Content Factory. Replacing the traditional exclusive focus on the news room, the Content Factory will translate local, national, and international news into interesting and entertaining programming segments for our listeners.
1779 Here's a short parody song to provide you with but one example of the kind of programming approach and style we're envisioning. It's perhaps a bit light‑hearted, but you'll get the idea.
‑‑‑ Technical difficulties / Problèmes techniques
1780 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Don't hire him for sound production, eh?
1781 MR. STRATI: Sorry, my media player.
1782 MR. MILES: That's why he's not in the engineering department.
1783 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How did you get your newscast to start at 7:30 and end at 7:03?
1784 MS MORTON: All right.
1785 MR. MILES: 7:31, 7:32.
1786 MS MORTON: Maybe we'll hear the parody song later.
1787 The great thing about programming from the Content Factory is that it will be available only on radio, and it will serve to further differentiate radio from other options available to local listeners. We need more programming that tries to accomplish that, and we think the Rock 105 Content Factory is a step in the right direction.
1788 An entertaining radio show requires resources and more depth than one person at the mike can provide. Most stations address this by adding voices into their morning shows, a co‑host, someone doing sports, someone else on traffic and weather, a news person. Too often this translates into nothing but more talk and not necessarily into more compelling and entertaining content. We're starting to see that listeners don't necessarily want more people talking to them in the morning, they want people focusing more specifically on how to inform them in an entertaining way.
1789 Rather than adding new voices to a morning show, we would include additional producers. Where more support is needed, we would establish a team of people behind the host, contributing creative ideas, production segments, and voice‑over bits, people who have hosted their own shows or who can bring creative talent to their roles.
1790 Content Factory staff will be comprised of people with creative or comedy‑writing experience, producers, and former on‑air personalities.
1791 Another under used source of content is the inclusion of listener input. At Rock 105, all of our announcers will incorporate listeners' calls into at least two breaks per hour. This listener interaction will provide local perspective and encourage a dialogue between listeners on the air.
1792 Our Impact 105 phone line will also provide our audience with the opportunity to leave messages and commentary on a variety of subjects. These messages will then be produced and scheduled as on‑air programming content, covering topics like the possibility of a strike at the Goodyear plant, the effect of Canadian foreign policy on soldiers and their families, or local reaction to the provincial candidates' debate. This interactivity will also be carried through to our Rock 105 website, generating an enhanced level of input and participation from our listeners.
1793 If anything, the phenomenal success of websites such as YouTube and MySpace have shown us that media consumers also want to express themselves and be content creators. At Rock 105, we have to try and do the same, whether through listener calls, website chatter, or features such as DJ For A Night, we have to provide opportunities for the active participation of our listeners. More involvement and more access can only mean that Rock 105 will be more local in its orientation and more community‑based in its reflection.
1795 MR. McKANNA: Thank you, Sarah.
1796 In reflecting the needs and interests of our listeners, Rock 105 will also have access to other valuable resources within Rogers Radio.
April of this year, we launched 660 News in
with our stations in
connection to our news content software system will provide local news
producers with immediate access to stories and segments from other news
departments. The Content Factory will
then use and adapt these stories to reflect the interests and concerns of local
1800 The key here is availability. All of these resources and all of this content will be made available to the Rock 105 Content Factory. The objective is not to replace local news and information, but, rather, to supplement it and provide the opportunity for the insertion of local context and perspective.
1801 It's really about enhancing the listener experience and differentiating our local content from what is available elsewhere. That's precisely why we also believe that new media will provide opportunities for us to broaden our relationship with listeners and establish more communities of interest. We are focusing on harnessing the brand power of our stations and extending it to deliver more local content and more services.
few months ago, we launched a VIP program for many of our station
websites. Through new media, our
listeners can now more actively participate and interact with our stations
initiating a strong bond with our stations and our on‑air
personalities. The VIP program has
proven to be extremely successful in driving traffic to our stations and our
websites. At CHEZ‑FM, our classic
rock station in
1803 Internet technology has become a part of daily life for most of us, but for the rock audience this is especially true. Rock listeners go to the Internet to source a wide variety of information, and they expect to be able to interact with their favourite radio station online. Rock 105's website will establish an online community, one where listeners can not only access music content and local information, but they'll also interact with our on‑air personalities. Blogs, commentaries, and community postings will allow listeners to connect with station personalities and with each other. We want to encourage more peer‑to‑peer contact between listeners and develop a community of interest that transcends music.
1804 More than ever, local is the key to our success. Today, local also means a strong new media presence on the Internet. At Rock 105, we'll establish an informative and entertaining new media platform to bring our local listeners even closer together.
1806 MR. VOTH: Thanks, Kevin.
1808 Strong brands and local and long‑term programming investments will ensure that our stations can continue to deliver local programming that meet the expectations of our listeners and keeps them as consumers in our Canadian Broadcasting System.
Rogers Radio, we consistently seek out new and popular radio formats. JACKfm is a good example of our ability to
develop a unique and distinctive format for Canadian radio. We also have extensive programming experience
with the rock music format, having used it with great success in
Rock 105, we've proposed a wide variety of music programs and features. Programming like the Six O'Clock Six Pack,
the Top 30 Countdown, and thematic rock weekends will engage and entertain listeners
providing a differentiated and localized music approach for
1811 Rock stations are exciting places to work, exciting because each station still has the ability individually to make a tangible contribution in promoting and developing Canadian talent at the local level. We know, we operate rock stations in other markets, and each of them has made a significant contribution to the development and promotion of new artists and local talent.
no dedicated rock station in
1813 Rock 105 will provide extensive promotional support and on‑air exposure for new artists and local talent. We, specifically, proposed a number of new music features, programs like the New Rock Nation, Dig Deep 105, and the Rock 105 Steel Cage Match.
have also committed to spending a total of $1 million to support Canadian
talent with at least half of that supporting local and regional initiatives in
1815 $500,000 to Radio Starmaker to support emerging Canadian music stars.
to the Alberta Recording Industry Association to develop southern
1817 And $200,000 to the Medicine Hat College Conservatory of Music and Dance to provide additional resources and support for music development initiatives, scholarships and special projects.
believe the benefits package we have proposed will provide much needed
resources for the continuing efforts of these organizations. Our proposal reflects our commitment to the
1820 MR. MILES: Before I conclude, with your indulgence, we have the parody song ready to go.
‑‑‑ Audio Clip / Clip audio
MILES: In conclusion, with Rock 105, we
are proposing to offer
1822 The introduction of Rock 105 will provide a fresh and unique perspective on local news and information, not only increasing the diversity of news and editorial opinion, but also establishing a unique approach to local programming, one that we believe is more consistent with the tastes and habits of rock music listeners.
application demonstrates our commitment to serve the community of
1824 Our proposed initiatives totalling one million will assist local, regional, and national organizations in their efforts to promote and develop Canadian talent.
1825 For all of these reasons, we believe the approval of our application would be in the public interest, and we look forward to any questions you may have.
1826 Thank you.
1827 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Pennefather?
1828 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
1829 Good morning, and thank you for your presentation. I will have some questions on programming and the music and spoken word, which the Content Factory will create, the talent development, and, obviously, your business plan.
1830 So although I won't sing the questions, we will start with music. You have said throughout your Brief, and I assume that that's maintained in the presentation this morning, that you will offer a broad‑based rock format including music from the 1960s through the early‑1990s with some more recent rock. And I believe in your deficiency May 19th, you focus on a rather large 25 to 54‑year‑old male skewed demographic. Is that still the case?
1831 MR. MILES: That is correct. The station will probably skew about 60 percent male, 40 percent female.
1832 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: 60/40? And what would the median age be?
1833 MR. MILES: 33.
1834 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: 33. So given that, if we could just probe a little bit more the rock music so we get a better sense of what it will sound like. Is your format more accurately described as mainstream AOR or classic rock, given your emphasis on the '70s, '80s, '90s?
MILES: I'm going to turn this question
over to Terry. He operates this format
1836 So, Terry, perhaps you could start with a bit of the air balance that would be able to describe better the format composition.
VOTH: For sure,
1838 The other applications, I would say, are not as broad as we are. Truly, when we say a broad‑based rock format, I would say we definitely have that. When it comes to current music, we're talking about actually 35‑percent modern and adult rock, Canadian bands like Sloan, Three Days Grace, for example. 25 percent of our music would be what we call album rock or AOR, bands like the Tragically Hip, Van Halen; 25 percent true classic rock, which is the '60s and '70s referred to, Led Zeppelin, The Guess Who, Bachman‑Turner Overdrive, and 15 percent of our music would be the adult rock component, which is, for example, new songs by Tom Cochrane and Colin James.
1839 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Looking at it differently, could you break it down by decade, how much '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s?
1840 MR. VOTH: I could. I would say about 33 percent of the music will come from 2004 right up to current music. In terms of the '80s, we'd be looking at about 15 percent, '60s/'70s would be about 25 percent, and '90s, I believe, would be about 10 percent.
1841 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: And given the rather large age distribution, even though we're looking at a median age of 33, it's 25 to 54 skewing male. Do you intend to target? Do you intend to use different music in different day parts?
1842 MR. VOTH: We would be slightly day‑parted at nighttime because frankly during the night is more of an 18 to 34 population that is available for radio, so you skew a little bit harder, a little bit more modern, like you still play a lot of classic rock, a little bit of adult rock, but during the day time is when it's definitely ‑‑ you know, until ‑‑ from 6 a.m. to 7 p.m., say, is going to be the broadest 25 to 44 appeal.
1843 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: 25 to 34, so ‑‑
1844 MR. VOTH: 25 to 54, pardon me.
1845 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Throughout the day, would you say you have a core demographic within that range?
1846 MR. VOTH: If we wanted to narrow it down further, it would be 25 to 44 with first emphasis on 35 to 44, second emphasis on 25 to 34.
1847 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: So the emphasis is the 35 to 44 side of that, if I heard you correctly? Okay. Now, you've indicated that, I believe, in the August 16 deficiency that you ‑‑ that nearly a hundred percent of your programming will be locally produced, but that voice‑tracked or automated programming will account for up to 20 percent of the broadcast week. You've also indicated your intention to offer some syndicated programming. So how many hours on average per week do you plan to devote to syndicated programs? When would these air, and what would the impact be on your weekly local programming?
1848 MR. McKANNA: I'll answer that question. Voice tracking, 20 percent would be 26 hours. At this point, we haven't got any syndicated programming that we're looking at, but I'd like to give you the breakdown of the actual voice‑tracked hours as well. That would be evenings from 8 p.m. to midnight and weekends would be on Saturday from 9 p.m. to midnight and Sunday from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m., So there is the total of 26 hours of voice tracking.
1849 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: That's the voice tracking. What about syndicated? Do you plan to use any syndicated programming?
1850 MR. McKANNA: Not at this point, no.
1851 MR. MILES: If I may just interject for a second, we tend to view voice tracking a tad differently. We think it's a very important part of programming. And it's not as if ‑‑ that when voice tracking is on there's no one at the radio station, so the radio station really is ‑‑ has operators on during the period of time when voice tracking is on, but if you think about it, we've got, at the resources of Rogers, some very, very talented people who actually can provide stronger content and stronger association with the music at certain times of the day than we're able to recruit locally. That doesn't make the local people a bad thing. We take that opportunity to reinvest into things such as the Content Factory and more people behind the scenes doing different parts of radio. So we're trying more than ever before to swing away from the old traditional ways of doing radio, into utilizing resources so that we're able to compete with this influx of new media and provide new opportunities. So it's not a cost‑cutting issue, it's a matter of reallocating resources at the correct time.
1852 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you, Mr. Miles.
1853 We'll get back to obviously discussing this approach throughout the questioning, and I appreciate you adding it to each of the components of my questions because it will give us a better understanding. Just looking at my question from the other side so that I'm clear ‑‑ my colleagues like to start me off first thing in the morning, but I don't think I had my second cup of coffee yet. So in terms of the amount of voice track, in terms of the broadcast day, if we turned around the other way, the percentage of live programming would be?
1854 MR. McKANNA: 80 percent.
PENNEFATHER: 80 percent? And would you be willing to accept a
1856 MR. McKANNA: Yes.
1857 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you.
1858 Now, let's look at the spoken word programming, and if you would allow, I would like, first, to clarify the spoken word programming content as closely as we can in terms of hours. We'll get to the approach after that where we can expand a little bit on the components of the Content Factory, but just so we review what's on record to date, in the May 19th deficiency response you indicated you would devote 17 percent of the broadcast week to spoken word, which translates into 21 hours and 25 minutes. And, again, in the same deficiency letter at answer 3, you said there will be news, weather, sports within the 105‑second Reality Check, of which we heard a sample. So we have ‑‑ we're up now to a total of 56 minutes a week of spoken word. We add to that ten minutes a week for rock news, so we're up to an hour and six minutes spoken word. We add to this an hour for what was called Restaurant and Pub Crawl and Community Events Calendar, and we're up to two hours and six minutes. Am I doing okay here? So this would be what one might conclude would be more traditional, if I may be allowed to use that word, spoken word, if ‑‑ would you agree?
1859 MR. MILES: So far, yes.
1860 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Yes. So we're back to our 17 percent, which leaves us ‑‑ we were up to two hours and six minutes or 17 percent of 126 hours. That leaves us with 19 hours of what we might call unstructured spoken word. Are we then on the same wave length?
1861 MR. MILES: Yes.
1862 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: So is this the spoken word that will be woven through the programming throughout the broadcast days, this part of your programming approach?
1863 MR. MILES: Kevin is going to give you the exact breakdown, and we have it so that we can file it at the end of the hearing, but one of the things that ‑‑ I'm sure we made the mistake on that one is that when we were talking about the amount of spoken word, we also had our commercial content in there, so now it starts to get more into line with the normal pattern of jock talk as well as the ability to take what we're doing in the Content Factory ‑‑ we've wrestled with this for some time because we've had a couple of appearances before you in which we've tried to explain the different kind of programming, so we put it more into very specific time periods and assigned time to it, although that's not necessarily the way it would be. It's just that in order to make sure that we were able to be clear on the amount of programming that we had and the content in it is that we've actually identified specific time periods for it, and that will form the basis of the explanation that Kevin is going to give you.
1864 MR. McKANNA: So, correct, it is 19 hours, and that breaks out as newscasts at two hours and 15 minutes. The Content Factory is two hours and 30 minutes, music features, one hour and 20 minutes, so that's a total of six. Jock talk in the morning show, four hours, at 12 minutes an hour, four hours, five days. That's your four hours. Midday and afternoon are both four hours with the same breakout. Evening is 1.5 hours, and weekends is 2.5 hours for a total of 12, and we also include public service announcements for a total of one hour for the week, so there's 19 hours.
1865 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: So you will be tabling that breakdown with us?
1866 MR. McKANNA: Yes.
1867 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: That's very helpful because it's a little different from what I was left with reading the deficiency to date. So we're looking at the percentage ‑‑ 17 is not quite accurate. It's actually ‑‑ let's talk about 19 hours of spoken word, which you've broken down as you've just described, so I'll work with that. Now, within that, we have news for how many hours?
1868 MR. McKANNA: Two hours and 15 minutes.
1869 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: So, again, it's pretty ‑‑ in that sense, that's close with ‑‑ to the application as we've seen it to this point. Let's talk a little bit now about the approach and the news, the two hours. Will it be a newscast, weather, sports? How often will it happen? Will it be closer to the traditional approach? You said here in your presentation today ‑‑ the reason I'm asking is replacing, you say, the traditional exclusive focus on the newsroom. Now, does that mean you will not have newscasts at specific hours during the day? What do those words mean, in fact?
1870 MR. MILES: Perhaps I could frame this in terms of the thrust of our presentation, with your permission, and then we will answer your specific questions. Sarah will tell you a little bit about how the Content Factory will work and how those things ‑‑ and then we do have specific times that the newscasts will call including what comprises of the Content Factory. But our approach is that if we were to apply for this licence five years ago, I'd rather suspect that we would have had lengthy newscasts, and they would have been at the top of the hour and the bottom of the hour because, frankly, that's the way radio run ‑‑ was run at those days, and we still operate some radio stations in some markets, not in this format that way. So we look upon that today as those were the good old days, and I suspect when we're before you in the next two years we'll look upon our idea and our concept that we're trying to put forward here as those were the good old days. So what we're trying to do is to capture our audience's attention in ways that are not tradition because they don't listen to radio and to music in the old traditional ways any more. We really are trying to figure out if this is the right approach. It may well not be. It may well be that the right approach to serving communities like this is with extensive newscasts. As I say, we operate some radio stations in similar sized markets, not in a rock format, in which we do a lot of this extensive news programming. So we're trying to make sure that when they can hear the same music from a lot of different sources, what's going to keep them tuned to a local radio station in Medicine Hat and understand it, and we think it's content and entertaining that reflects the nature of what's happening in the community and in the province that they will not be able to get anywhere else.
1871 We actually have some stats from satellite radio listening in some of our research that, perhaps, later on we can bring up, but it's ‑‑ it's a bit frightening from a local radio broadcaster. Anyway, let's start with what the Content Factory is made up of, if you don't mind.
1872 And, Sarah?
1873 MS MORTON: Sure.
1874 We'll have six programming people at Rock 105, three of those will be on‑air, and three of them will be off‑air. They'll be dedicated people to the Content Factory led by the program director. These people will provide the news, they'll create the traditional newscasts that you'll hear in the morning show and in the afternoon show, but in addition to that what they'll do is take the news and information and create it into entertaining content for our listeners.
1875 You are hearing us talk a lot about content today, and, you know, there's a buzz phrase in the industry right now, content is king, and it really is the differentiating factor for radio right now. You know, we ‑‑ we are fighting ‑‑ fighting it out with new technologies in a market like Medicine Hat where there is no rock station providing music to the rock audience, those people are sourcing their music in other ways: They're going to the Internet, they're using their iPods, and those are sources for music that are not currently providing them with news and information.
1876 So as a rock station coming into a market like that, you have to find ways to ‑‑ to entertain and keep your audience with you. They're used to sourcing their information outside of their music sources.
1877 And so what it does is create an opportunity for us to take news and information, repackage it, make ‑‑ create entertaining content, and then find ways to inform our listeners further with those new technologies. So that bears the opportunity to take our listeners to the website, offer them further information on the website, and through the new technology.
1878 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Could I just ask you to ‑‑ let's try to be a little precise on ‑‑
1879 MR. MILES: Yes.
1880 MS MORTON: Mmhmm.
1881 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: ‑‑ some of the components of Content Factory.
1882 MS MORTON: Sure.
1883 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: And I'll use your presentation. You mentioned six staff. Are these journalists?
1884 MS MORTON: The ‑‑ those are six programming staff, so three will be on‑air, you know ‑‑ they'll be on‑air talent, and the three content ‑‑ dedicated Content Factory staff will have a news background that, you know, is certainly an important part of what they would bring to the table, but we're also looking for people who ‑‑ who can come at that news from a creative way, so people with writing and production backgrounds as well.
1885 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: So this is in your presentation today when you talked about additional producers ‑‑
1886 MS MORTON: Mmhmm.
1887 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: ‑‑ a team of people behind the host? These are, essentially, writers, comedy writers, people who can do the interpretation ‑‑
1888 MS MORTON: That's right.
1889 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: ‑‑ and do the kind of parody work that you presented to us; is that correct?
1890 MS MORTON: That's right, mmhmm.
1891 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: You also have another element called Listener Input. You will incorporate listener calls into at least two breaks per hour. Is this also part of the Content Factory created by the same writers?
1892 MS MORTON: It is a source of content definitely, and those listener calls will be produced and expanded upon and be a source of ‑‑ a source for the Content Factory. I think, additionally, though, it's a way of using listeners to provide news and information and ‑‑ and local context and perspective on new stories of the day.
1893 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Is this the same thing as our impact ‑‑ your Impact 105 phone line messages produced and scheduled as on air‑programming?
1894 MS MORTON: Mmhmm.
1895 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Is it the same thing?
1896 MS MORTON: Well, no, those are two different things. The listener line is a place where listeners can call and leave messages and perspectives, that information would be taken by the Content Factory and ‑‑ and used as material there. The calls that our on‑air announcers would be encouraged to take throughout their programs would be where the local context in perspective ‑‑
1897 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: How would you go about choosing which calls to use?
MORTON: That is up to the on‑air host
at the time. You know, when ‑‑
I'll maybe use an example from
1899 MR. MILES: What we found as we moved more and more into this new media is that we have a brand and we have a personality, and, traditionally, they were on a radio, and you listened to them through various media, various outlets, and it was sort of a no connection. Now, with the ability of use the web and loyalty program and bring them back in, we have them go out, and then they start to come back in. And they start to form parts of the programming, and so the answer to your question about who would sort of decide what call to take, well, actually the announcer that's live on the air that starts to understand what the pattern is of what's going on, taking stuff out of the parody song that we had, taking stuff from the news. It's incorporated into their topical talk patterns as they go throughout the day, and then they start to bring this back on. In one of the instances in some of our stations, we actually have the listeners program a half hour of the music, and so how ‑‑ you get talking to them, and they come back in, and they select it. We tell them it's going to be on at such and such a time on Thursday, they tell all their friends, they get involved on the thing. It's getting them back involved into the process so that it's just not a matter of tuning into channel 2653, if you can ever find it on a satellite radio, and bringing down that particular format and just listening to it. It's an involvement process.
PENNEFATHER: I think what will be
helpful is when we see, also, the ‑‑ if you table with us the
spoken word and the way it will be presented throughout the broadcast day. While I don't want to sound like too much of
a traditionalist, it is difficult to get a picture here of what the listeners
will have in terms of spoken word. If
the spoken word you're describing could occur during a morning program, I've
listened to them in Toronto on Rogers where there's the banter going on, and
there's a fair degree of comedy interspersed with some music, it would then
look like more of a typical station, if you will. So if we could get a sense of that from what
you're going to table, that would be very helpful. And with this kind of phone‑in and also
the use of opinions and listener input, I assume, obviously, that
1901 MR. MILES: We will and quite prepared to commit to that. In fact, you know, part of the Content Factory will be somebody who, in a more traditional sense would have been the news editor, just so that there is this sense of understanding, and so if something drastic and serious is happening, we're not going to be making light‑hearted comments on it, it will be more traditional. And our scheduling does call for that on the radio station.
1902 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Now, there's a couple of questions that come to mind when I listen to the approach you're taking. One is that perhaps the approach ‑‑ and some of the two examples you gave us might tend to lead us to think that the approach you're talking about is more associated with other formats with youth, with younger listeners. You're skewing to not only 25 to 54, but the 35 to 44 component of that, if we recall our previous discussion. So why do you think that this approach will work with an audience of adult listeners?
1903 MR. MILES: Well, I think that everybody actually wants to be a little younger than they currently are, and that's number one. Number two, the phenomena that we're seeing in our research that we're ‑‑ I, for one, would do that. The research that we're seeing as we roll throughout Alberta is that with the tremendous migration inward into the province, there's now a new influx of 25‑34s that hasn't been before, so you are correct in a more traditional form this would skew a little bit older, but we are actually finding out now that the market composition in large and non‑metro markets as well is more evenly split, 25‑34, 35‑44, 45‑54. And the rock idiom transcends all of those things, and you've heard from Terry our composition, and so a great ‑‑ a broad‑based rock format has the ability to bring all these people together into one area, and the market can sustain this one because there currently is no rock radio station, and we'll have the ability to capture them in this area. And we will be serious when it's time for serious news, but people want to be entertained.
PENNEFATHER: No, I do understand the
approach. It was a question of trying to
get clarification as you know throughout today and yesterday on your core
audience. Just on that point as well,
some of the programming approach you've described, if I could put it this way,
could be listened to anywhere. Now, how
local will this Content Factory be for the listeners in
1905 MS MORTON: Local will be a priority, definitely, for the Content Factory. You know, listeners are interested first and foremost in what's going on in their world and how it affects them, and that means local news. So local ‑‑ local news and information will comprise 75 percent of what the Content Factory does. And, you know, also looking for ways to tie in national stories on a local level and being able to relate to the audience in that way.
1906 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: I believe you have mentioned the 75 percent local in previous correspondence. Would you accept that as a condition of licence if we so decide, 75 percent local content?
1907 MS MORTON: We would, yes.
1908 MR. MILES: Yes.
1909 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: There's one other question I had just reading, again, your presentation this morning and the website, and clearly ‑‑ you've laid out quite clearly how you see the website incorporated into the Content Factory. Would the local content ‑‑ we're discussing the on‑air content, correct? And it will be 75 percent local?
1910 MR. MILES: Correct.
1911 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: It's ‑‑ in reading this, one might be concerned that the online community would be the local component as opposed to the on‑air component, so we just wanted to be clear on that point.
1912 MR. MILES: Perhaps the best way to explain that would be to give you some examples of things we're currently doing and how it ties in. I'm going to start with Sarah, then I'll go to Kevin, and then to Terry. Each one will have a specific example. But, again, without sounding too repetitive on this one, what we're attempting to establish is the brand and the format going out to the listener and having them come back in so that they get totally committed to the radio station so that there is a framework around the 17 rock songs or the five modern songs or this kind of thing that they can get anywhere else. And we're doing that in different ways, and Sarah, perhaps, one example, and then followed by Kevin and Terry.
MORTON: Sure. I think it's important to understand
that ‑‑ in particular, like, our rock audience, you really
can't separate the radio station from the website any more. The two reflect one another on an ongoing
basis. At SONiC in
1914 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Okay, thank you.
move on to Canadian talent development, and I'm looking at your deficiency
response dated May 19th where we asked for a cost breakdown associated with the
funds earmarked for the Conservatory of Music and Dance. And aside from asserting that the funds would
go directly to musicians and artists attending the institution, you indicated
that the conservatory will have control over the funds earmarked to them, but
1916 MR. STRATI: Well, in ‑‑ we've talked to ‑‑ for example, talked to Lyle Revic(ph) from the conservatory, and we've talked about different initiatives that are involved in different projects they're working on. For example, they do have an academy program that is sort of the higher end to bring in people in the ‑‑ students who are in both music and dance categories, but who have sort of already developed expertise and very strong interest in this area. So there are some scholarships that are currently available that are made locally, but some of them are part ‑‑ sort of part scholarships. They're not full scholarships. So certainly, scholarships or the increase of scholarships for students is one area. There are also some that we had discussed about some symposiums and some special projects where you could look at either someone who is coming in locally as an artist, who would then have an opportunity, not only if they're at, for example, the Esplanade in Medicine Hat, there would be a performance. There could also be an opportunity to tie in with the college and the conservatory where they could come and meet the students and talk about their experiences. That's another area we talked about. And another one is instruments. I mean, they have an instrument rental program at the conservatory, and you could look to augment that and also to provide even for the purchasing of instruments. So it's a bit of those three areas in terms scholarships, some special projects, and the instruments. So those are the three elements we've talked about.
1917 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: So you have had discussions with the conservatory on the distribution and allocation of the funds?
1918 MR. STRATI: Yes, absolutely.
1919 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: And have you any written agreement as to the allocation of the funds?
1920 MR. STRATI: No written agreement, but certainly we could ‑‑ I'd be ‑‑ we could discuss it further and have sort of some further specificity in terms of the breakout, but it was ‑‑ you know, we had talked roughly in terms of one‑third for each of the different elements, you know, that would be a guide ‑‑ a guide in terms of how the allocations had be ‑‑ preferable if one year there was a special project that they could allocate those resources towards a special project, rather than others, but certainly we could provide that.
1921 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: So one‑third ‑‑ could you just give me that again?
1922 MR. STRATI: Sure. The one‑third disseminated to scholarships, one‑third to special projects, and one‑third to the instruments.
1923 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: To the instruments?
1924 MR. STRATI: That's correct.
1925 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: And just in terms of your ‑‑ us being able to be sure that the funds actually do go where you had described them as going as therefore being appropriate contributions under CTD, could you advise us on what you have in place to ensure that the funds do go to this project?
1926 MR. STRATI: Sure. And that's part of the ‑‑ absolutely. That's part of the mention of consultation. It's not that we will be consulted on the actual decisions that are made by the conservatory. I think they would be more sort of the decider, if you will, in terms of where they see the money or working with the scholarships. Our role would be to ensure, like you've mentioned, that just to get a good sense that the money is allocated and spent in a way that is appropriate for regulatory purposes and for meeting our conditions.
1927 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: With respect to that, would you care to comment on the possibility of a condition of licence to the effect that you would have in place an agreement that there was some feedback to you on the allocation of the funds?
1928 MR. STRATI: Absolutely.
PENNEFATHER: Okay. We'll go on to the business plan and economic
analysis component, and I have a question on your revenue projections. We note that your revenue projections are
lower than most of the other applicants for the
MILES: Well, we are ‑‑
I'm going to actually have Leda discuss the formula that we used to come up
with it, but just as a general observation, it's enticing to be from outside of
1931 Leda, perhaps you can just outline the formula that we used.
MacLEOD: Basically we looked at ‑‑
we estimated what the market would be based on our experience in
PENNEFATHER: Now, I have your ‑‑
this is the appendix that you've included with Appendix B in terms of the
MILES: I think that it could support a
mainstream station and a what we'll call a niche format or a smaller market
format ability. I think that ‑‑
and, again, I come back to it. The good
one radio stations in this market place.
The marketplace while it's growing, it still listened to one of the
1935 So, Angela, you've been in the marketplace, and you've had a discussion with some of the merchants. What's your general opinion of the retail sales?
1936 MS REIMER: Well, having gone down to the market and spoke to some of the business community and the Chamber, there is, obviously, a lot of the business community spends some money in the local radio landscape there. There is others, however, that obviously doesn't fulfill their needs, so they're going to other media avenues such as print or billboard or even television there.
1937 There is an opportunity ‑‑ obviously, there is a big hole as the other applicants and ourselves are going for a rock station with a male skew. So there is money there to be had from existing clients, from new clients to radio for a rock‑based station, male‑skewed station.
1938 It's a strong economy, but it goes up and down with the oil and gas and particularly gas in this market.
1939 At this point, speaking to some of them ‑‑ well, I was there when the gas was down a bit, they were seeing immediate changes because of that, immediate impact in terms of expenditure in their market.
1940 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you.
1941 My last question ‑‑ we've asked this question to other applicants as well. If we go back to the beginning and we agreed that you have a very broad‑based rock format, what would be the impact on your proposal if the Commission were to licence another player with one of the ones which has a similar format or the adult standard modern nostalgia format where the listeners are 45 plus? But what would be the impact on your business plan if we were to licence one of the applicants with a similar formula, particularly since you're the broad base of rock that you are?
1942 MR. MILES: Well, first of all, we wouldn't ‑‑ we would not change our format. The other formats that had been suggested the closest that came was a more modern alternative rock‑based ‑‑ broad‑based format. So we would keep it the same. We've operated these formats against competition in the markets, and over the longer period of time, they stand the test of time. So that's number one. Number two, we have made our projections with one station being in the market and another specialty station. The impact of somebody else with a variation of the rock theme would probably extend our financial records one more year out ‑‑ one, two, one‑and‑a‑half years out, so that breaking even would probably be in around year five or six as compared with, I think we suggested it we'd be slightly out of it by year three as we're going into year four, that's been our experience in the past. We've seen this thing. It takes about two years for a marketplace to finally get readjusted back into introduction of new formats, sometimes a little longer if many more formats are introduced into it because it's not just the impact on the retailers and the clients, it's also the impact on the other radio stations themselves and the competitor ‑‑ and the people who are in the market, and a couple of mainstream formats in the market this size will have a fairly dramatic impact, in our opinion, on the current incumbents.
1943 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you very much, Mr. Miles, and all your team for your kind responses to my questions.
1944 Those are my questions, Madam Chair.
1945 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
1946 Vice‑Chair Arpin?
1947 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
keep talking about the business plan.
And I note that in your projections that your national revenues are
fairly low, and I know that you've got a lot of experience with national sales
1949 MR. MILES: There are three things that we took into consideration: First, this is a unDPMed market, so, therefore, you can't really say that if I have a 22 share, I'm going to get a 22 share of the business. So that's number one. Secondly, this station, I don't care how good it is, and we have a great team, it's not going to garner that right at the very beginning. Station shares grow slowly, and national sales are accumed exactly to the amount of share of audience that you have. So it's going to slowly progress over the period of time.
1950 The other phenomena that, perhaps, is more disheartening, I believe, for non‑metro market radio stations is the ‑‑ there's a swing out of conventional television looking for new homes for advertising. Radio is picking up parts of that. But as the markets continue to grow in the metro markets, there is a reduction in national business that goes into non‑metro markets. It is a fact of life. It's compensated a little bit by regional businesses. So will we have a chance to bring some of our regional business in Alberta with all of our radio stations to this market, yes, we will, and that will make up for it. But in terms of the big national accounts, taking a look at markets of this size, unfortunately, they're tending to spend their money on the larger markets and buying spread and buying bigger markets where there's more bang for the dollar, and so that's why we forecasted the national not to be as robust as it would look until we're able to get some traction and get some ability into these kind of markets from our formats.
ARPIN: And by a larger market, are you
MILES: The reality is that the old 80/20
rule really does exist and that 80 percent of the national business is done
into the top ten markets across
1953 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: I want to come back to Mrs. Morton, a discussion ‑‑ the discussions she had with Commissioner Pennefather, particularly regarding the number of on‑air staff. You mentioned that you will have a director of programming. Will he be ‑‑ will he also be part of the six people that you were talking that were ‑‑ will be handling programming, or is it a seventh person?
1954 MS MORTON: No, he would ‑‑ he is part of the six that we talked about.
1955 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: The six?
1956 MS MORTON: Yeah, the program director will also host one of the ‑‑
1957 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: One of the programs?
1958 MS MORTON: One of the programs, yes.
1959 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Now, you said ‑‑ well, obviously someone at some point in time said that they will be more formal news because you cannot always have lightened news, you need to have more formal news. Will you have a news team on top of the six people we've talked about?
1960 MR. MILES: Not on top of, but one of the team will be the news director responsible for the news content on the radio station.
1961 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: So what we're talking here, it's six people doing all the on‑air, the news, and the Content Factory?
MILES: That is correct. The answer to that is yes, and that leads to
the next question is how can that happen, and how it can happen is that while
technology is driving us crazy from time to time, it also is assisting in
enabling us to do a lot of jobs faster and smarter and better than we've ever
done before. You know, all of our
newsrooms across Canada have hooked up with the burley system, and this is the
ability to gather in information and have it down in front of you, and with a
couple of quick edits and things like that, you've got bits of a piece that you
can put together. And the same thing is
happening with the rest of the technology that we supply all of our radio
stations with. So we're ‑‑
I think that, by and large, they're a little shorter on the bodies than they
used to be 20 years ago, but there's more equipment and more facilities for
them, and there's more programming IQ. I
know we've stayed away from the synergy question, and we don't have any
problems with the synergy question. That
radio station in
ARPIN: You have a rock station in
1964 MR. MILES: Terry, I'll let you answer that.
1965 We actually do have a bit of a Content Factory. We haven't formalized it to this nature, but give us a couple of examples, Terry.
1966 MR. VOTH: Sure, no problem. The one that comes to mind ‑‑ and, actually, to respond to one of the Commissioner's comments about the age of appeal and so on and so forth, a recent example that we have ‑‑ the Content Factory, by the way, in Lethbridge, while not formal, is, in effect, myself as a program director, not just the general manager of Rock 106, working with the morning team, with our morning host, our morning co‑host, who is also a news person.
1967 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: So they're missing you this morning?
VOTH: I haven't talked to them yet. And, actually, our evening fellow who also
does production, and he has great ideas, and he brings a different take to
it. So I like to kind of bring these
minds together informally, and we'll look at things. Can we react as fast as the Content Factory
would? Not at this point because we
don't have that focus that I would say ‑‑ I agree with
1969 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Thank you.
you have synergies between
1971 MR. MILES: The synergies we bring are really best practices. The synergies we bring are different ways and innovative ways that have worked in other markets, and we give them to the people in that local market. So it's more a behind the scenes synergy as compared with we do this program, we're going to put it over there and do that. We don't do that. It is more the programming and sales and marketing IQ synergies that we have throughout the company that we continue to exploit.
ARPIN: The two clips we heard this
morning, obviously, were not produced in
MILES: No, they were produced in
ARPIN: They were produced in
1975 MR. MILES: Yes.
1976 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: It's a much smaller market, much smaller base of talent, and ‑‑ but you're ‑‑ you're feeling that you have the ability to find the people and obviously the technology so that you can ‑‑ you're going to ‑‑ I understand SONiC hasn't been on air for about a year, a year and a half, but technology goes so fast that you may contemplate sending the equipment from Edmonton to Medicine Hat and buy new equipment for Edmonton?
MILES: I'm going to mark that down, and
I think the people in
1978 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: But not working for you people, eh?
1979 MR. MILES: That's right. You know, this new morning show has taken over. So to answer your question about the talent, what we do is we take people who are apprenticing in our bigger stations and put them into this. So the idea of the context and the enthusiasm is the same, and we're able to produce the same kind of on‑air experience.
1980 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Well, Madam Chair, those were my questions.
1981 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Cugini?
1982 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank you, Madam Chair.
1983 Mr. Miles, I was struck this morning by something you said in your oral presentation, and it's, "Whether it's the morning show or news segments or even the ads we sell, we want our listeners to know, at all times, that they are tuned to a rock station." And your audio clips obviously gave us a very good sense of what your radio station will sound like, and I also assume it means Madonna will not be on your play list any time soon, but that's not my question. So I was struck about, "even the ads we sell." I wonder if you could explain to us a little bit what you mean by that. Is it ‑‑ you know, will you be redoing the creative for some of the advertisers, or will you be selecting the advertisers themselves that you will sell time to on this radio station, just what do you mean by, "even the ads we sell."
MILES: One of the programs that we've
engaged in in the last four years has been to cement a relationship with the
advertisers. My view of the future is
there will be fewer advertisers, they will have bigger budgets, and the
relationship issue will be the same, but it won't be a relationship as we had
in the old days, which was the hale fellow, well meant, a cigar, let's go to
the game. Well, maybe part of
that's ‑‑ it's a relationship that's a marketing
relationship. And we take clients away
on four‑day seminars in which we bring in people who are versed in
marketing, versed in succession duties.
They're typically owner/managers, versed in HR, versed in technical
things. They're the people who get up at
six in the morning to figure out where the dry route's going to be, going and
opening up the store, go deliver the stuff, sell it. They do this kind of stuff, and we've been
modestly successful, and I say that hesitantly because I think we've been very
successful in growing these people's businesses. So we tend to grow them from that. Part of the things that we talk about at that
is that if you're running the Ford dealership, you should be on an adult
contemporary station because there are cars that are suitable for that
particular audience, and you should be there, and it should be a different kind
of approach. If you're going to be
selling trucks and SV units on a rock station, it's a different kind of
approach. We have our creative people
sit in on these sessions, and they start to develop with these owner/managers,
which is typically what the business community in
1985 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank you. Thank you very much for that.
1986 Madam Chair, that's all.
1987 THE CHAIRPERSON: Round two, Commissioner Pennefather.
1988 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: My apologies, Madam Chair, I am back.
1989 I just wanted to follow‑up very briefly on your conversation with Vice‑Chair Arpin. We did discuss that 75 percent of the spoken word would be local, and we agreed that you would agree to a condition of licence. I just wanted to be assured that that 75 percent would also apply to the news component, be it straight on news or be it Content Factory‑created news, that it would be 75 percent local?
1990 MR. MILES: Yes.
1991 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you.
1992 THE CHAIRPERSON: I'm sorry, we can't let you go yet. I needed ‑‑ I need some sort of help with a few things. You referred to out of the 19 hours that two hours was going to be Content Factory. And I know that is square peg/round hole or vice versa, but the Content Factory also does the parody songs. Does that sort of include the parody songs?
1993 MR. McKANNA: Yes it does, two hours and 30 minutes, yes.
CHAIRPERSON: And, Mr. Strati, you were
talking about one‑third of the money going to
1995 MR. STRATI: Well, currently there's a rental program. It could also be a rental/purchase program is what we talked about with Mr. Revic.
1996 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. So you would, what, subsidize the rent?
1997 MR. STRATI: Yes, that's correct. Subsidize the rental or the purchase of instruments for students at the conservatory involved in the various programs.
1998 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. And, Mr. Miles, you talked about providing us with a chart similar to the ones we have been receiving on spoken word. When would you be providing that?
1999 MR. MILES: As soon as we're finished this part. We have it all prepared. Right after we're finish our session. We'll provide it for you today.
2000 THE CHAIRPERSON: Oh, okay, good enough, mmhmm. And voice tracking, I'm ‑‑ my colleague, Commissioner Pennefather, had a COL from you that you'd be live‑to‑air 80 percent, and that is 80 percent of the broadcast week?
2001 MR. MILES: Correct. I think that's 101 hours or something along that line.
2002 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes. And do you still intend ‑‑ as you said in your supplementary ‑‑ or in your answer to deficiencies of August 16th, do you still intend to ‑‑ at question 2 on page 2 there's a reference here to voice tracking perhaps weekday midday periods.
2003 MR. MILES: We had put that in when we had a schedule that we had looked at, and then when we got around into actually doing it, we just shifted that midday down into the evening part. There is no more, but to answer the question specifically, it's live to air from six in the morning to eight at night, and then operators on from eight until midnight.
2004 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes. And guess I'm ‑‑ there's two issues that come to mind. On page 10 of your submission today, I had little bells going off in my head, and I know I'm a regulator, and I'm not a creative person as you are, but you talk about the audience providing the opportunity to leave messages and commentary, and then they can be produced and scheduled as on‑air programming content. And you have the example of a strike at Goodyear, the effect of the Canadian foreign policy on soldiers, et cetera. What about same‑sex marriage and those tough ones, and how are we going to ensure ‑‑ like you say, you have one ‑‑ I guess as the news director person or somebody because there's a balance issue surely and code adherence issue clearly.
2005 MR. MILES: It is the biggest concern of us in all of our operations. Part of the Content Factory will be the news director, and this person will be ‑‑ again, we'll probably take them from Kevin, 660 News, out of that newsroom so that there is a true news sense. You can't not understand about the news. The other one, remember, would be the program director of the radio station, charged with the responsibility and the fiduciary responsibility of the programming content, and we'll well‑versed in that. We spend a great deal of time in our training programs to ensure that everybody understands about this. So while I can only give you my assurance, I will tell you that there won't be any difference between this operation and the way our other operations are ran for responsibility and adherence to the broadcasting guidelines.
2006 THE CHAIRPERSON: And my final thoughts are ‑‑ and you said, you know, it would impact your ‑‑ it would delay your cash ‑‑ your cash‑even date by a year or two if somebody else in a mainstream format were put in. I guess I concern myself about ‑‑ this Content Factory concept is a bit of a flyer for you. You know, a bit of a new thing for you, and I can see how exciting and interesting it is, but what happens if it doesn't work after two years and we have somebody in the market who may have a COL for a hundred‑percent, you know, voice to ‑‑ live to air, and because of your format and your concept, you're at 80 percent, and so you would change to a format that's ‑‑ that is more mainstream in terms of, I'm going to say less ‑‑ you're less ‑‑ I mean, you have a creative idea here, but you go back to the more traditional, and you'd have an advantage, wouldn't you?
MILES: Yes, we would. That is true.
That's not where we see the future of radio broadcasting. Again, maybe five years ago we ‑‑
this would have been a whole different ‑‑ well, it would have
been a different kind of application.
What we tend to do at
2008 We ‑‑
you know, we've got some research, and pardon me for taking time, but I think it's
important for the Commission to hear this.
We've gone into markets now in the last four months with research, as we
do continually. For the first time,
we're adding the question on, do you listen to satellite radio, and if so, how
often? So here are the results. Three months ago we were in
2009 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
2010 For the record, my nephew listens to satellite, but he listens to BBC News. I don't know what 21 year olds are about anyway.
2011 Thank you.
2012 Legal counsel?
2013 MR. MILES: You have brought him up well.
2014 MS BENNETT: Thanks. I just have one small point of clarification. With respect to the condition of licence that 75 percent of the news content would be local, would that be on a daily or a weekly basis?
2015 MR. MILES: Weekly.
2016 MS BENNETT: Thanks.
2017 THE CHAIRPERSON: Last night I had this tape going through my head, two hours ‑‑ two minutes, two minutes.
2018 Mr. Miles, you have two minutes. Thank you.
MILES: Is this where I get a chance to
say that it's a pleasure to be back in
2020 We have proposed the best rock format for this market given its size and its current competitive nature. This is a broad‑based format equal across the demos, and it's more male skewed than female.
know how to do this format in this size market; our experience is in
2022 We have explored and proposed possible solutions to the new competitive landscape including brand and content extension to the web. The Content Factory is designed to do this.
2023 The incumbent broadcaster, Pattison, is a good, strong broadcaster with two mainstream formats and a television station. He's got heritage and market momentum.
2024 This is going to be a tougher grind than everybody expects, and we're here for the long haul.
2025 Thank you.
2026 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
2027 Madam Secretary...? Oh, I'm being asked to give everybody a five‑minute break.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1002 / Suspension à 1002
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1011 / Reprise à 1011
2028 THE CHAIRPERSON: Madam Secretary...?
2029 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
will now proceed with the last application for the
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
2031 MR. LOUGH: Good morning, Madam Chair, Commissioners, CRTC staff. My name is Pat Lough, president of Rock 102, and today with me is my wife, my business partner, Dulaine Lough.
is with great enthusiasm and excitement, a lot of nervousness, that we are
appearing before you today to present our application for Rock 102 to serve
application represents my lifelong dream to enter into the radio industry. We believe that Rock 102 addresses all of the
requirements set out by the Commission for the licensing of a new radio
station, and we believe that Rock 102 has exceeded the CAB's Canadian talent
development initiatives for a small market such as
being our first time before you, the Commission, we would like to take a moment
to introduce ourselves as the applicant.
I was raised in
the last three‑and‑a‑half years, Dulaine and I have owned and
operated a small specialty store in
opted to leave Nortel in 2005 to finally pursue my dreams in radio
broadcasting, as radio has been a vision of mine for over 15 years. And I believe that with the present
circumstances right now in
licensing of Rock 102 will allow me and my young family an opportunity to
return back to
LOUGH: Madam Chair, Commissioners, CRTC
Staff, Rock 102 is the only applicant that will be 100 percent locally owned
and operated. Our application represents
a new entrant into the Canadian broadcast System, and it effectively represents
the small business owner in
100 percent of
we were doing our research, we were shocked to find out how much foreign
ownership there is in the
licensing of Rock 102 will give some ownership of
the cost of living in larger centres like
average 2004 PBIT for
2047 Our application is about diversity. The 60‑percent classic rock format will be of particular interest to 25 to 54‑year‑old males and the 30‑percent classic hits format will likely attract more female listeners than it would if we played classic rock alone. Our proposed Alberta Rocks, Totally Canadian, and an alternative rock program will make up the balance of our genre of music programming.
2048 Because we believe in Canadian artists, we have committed to a full 40 percent of Canadian content.
2049 As a new entrant to radio broadcasting, during our first year we have proposed a live breakfast show running from 6 a.m. to 9 p.m., a live afternoon drive from 3 p.m. to 6 p.m. and live evening program from 7 to 10 p.m., totalling nine hours a day of live‑to‑air programming.
2050 Totally Canadian will be a daily one‑hour program focusing entirely on Canadian artists and will be placed in the prime listening hour of 6 p.m.
Rocks and Alberta Rocks will have us deviate slightly from our classic rock and
classic hits formats, as we will be highlighting all Canadian and
potential audience clearly indicated that they wanted variety, so we feel that exposure
to Canadian and
2053 Diversity of ownership and a diversity of voices are very important in the Canadian Broadcast System and are vital in smaller communities. The Rock 102 application was submitted with the intention of giving new radio personalities a start in the radio industry. We have planned to make use of new technologies, such as voice tracking, to help new broadcast personalities become comfortable with broadcasting. Such technologies will help new broadcasters perfect their image before going live on the air. With time and experience, new personalities will move to a live role. Voice tracking will also allow us the greatest diversity with our on‑air personnel, as we will be able to attract personalities who may want to be on air, but due to circumstances, may not be able to.
2054 We also want to emphasize that it is important to us, as the owners, that Rock 102 will not be a station that is purposely offensive.
2055 As stated in our deficiency letter dated June 30th, 2006, we will commit to 15 percent spoken‑word programming, totalling 19 hours per week. Our spoken word component will include the normal DJ commentaries and reflection, along with Rock 102 presents a music calendar highlighting upcoming concerts in the area, a community calendar highlighting local community and non‑profit events. In the winter, a ski report, crime stoppers reports, the stock market and business reports, agriculture reports, public service announcements, and various charity initiatives.
2056 We have committed to a total of five hours and 15 minutes of news per week as a minimum of news. The breakdown is as follows: For 55 minutes of news a day, Monday to Friday, 20 minutes of news Saturday, and 20 minutes of news Sunday. Now, I do believe in what you've got, it says 40, and that was a mistake, and we ask you to change that and apologize for the inconvenience. It will be 20 minutes of news on Saturdays and Sundays.
2057 The commitments we have made are minimums and will be increased as the need arises.
2058 MR. LOUGH: Our CTD initiatives are substantial for a new entrant into the broadcasting system. We have proposed direct expenditures of 37,800 ‑‑ sorry. Yeah, we have proposed direct expenditures of 37,800 and indirect expenditures of 319,550 over the seven‑year licence. Although our CTD initiatives do not have the same dollar value as other applicants, who hold multiple licences, we are confident that our initiatives not only exceed the requirements identified by the CAB, but they are also focused on the community that we'll be serving.
2059 We believe that there are many ways that a station can support Canadian artists, most notably through airplay, SOCAN fees, and CTD commitments.
on the CAB suggestion for CTD in a small market like
pledge to invest 1,500 for an Artists in Residency Program is a grassroots
initiative. The Artists in Residency
Program would bring well‑known and accomplished musicians, conductors, or
2062 The local band teachers will identify students that may benefit from direct interaction with the artist, conductor, or composer. Students will be given the sheet music in advance so that they can effectively prepare for the workshop. When the artist, conductor, or composer puts on their workshop, they will have the opportunity to share what inspired them when they wrote their composition. They can share some of the life challenges as a musician, and they can share how they overcame some of the life challenges and share industry contacts and trades.
2063 The Artists in Residency Program doesn't have to be the same every year. One year it could have a senior high band ‑‑ senior high school band focus, the next year it could have an orchestra focus, and the next year, it could even have an elementary school focus.
2064 Terri Clark, a well known country musician, was a personality artist that Mr. Wahl was able to bring into his high school band to discuss some of her challenges before making it big in country music. Another Albertan who has had a very long and successful music career and who is willing to share his life experiences is Tommy Banks. In the case of a conductor or a composer coming to perform at a workshop, the Artists in Residency Program will give them an opportunity to also put on a public performance involving the students from their workshop. If marketed, the Artists in Residency Program could attract corporate sponsors and funding from the Alberta Foundation for the Arts.
the shape the Artists in Residency Program ultimately takes on, we will ensure
that the contribution is in compliance with Appendix 1 of CRTC 1990‑111. If we don't receive positive feedback in
regards to the Artists in Residency Program, we're willing to redirect the
funds to ARIA to be spent in other areas ‑‑ to being spent in
other initiatives in the
2066 Originally intended for the Classic Rock Music Event, we pledged $2,000 towards a public concert featuring a local group as a warm‑up band.
we were challenged by CIRPA to consider giving monies to the area, we found
that area would keep the money in the
2068 Support for a newly founded Medicine Hat Folk Music Festival, we have committed $1,500 to help develop this initiative. The Medicine Hat Folk Music Society was started in ‑‑ I better stick to my script. Monies pledged to the Medicine Hat Folk Music Society will be in compliance also, with the Appendix 1 of CRTC 1990‑111, with a leaning towards the songwriting competition, but our early discussions were involving some administration costs.
of Rock 102 will offer diversity in the
efforts to grow the broadcasting community, Rock 102 has proposed to donate
equipment that we have acquired over the years to help the
the Commission approve our licence, we will be a fresh, new broadcaster in
2072 Additionally, we have shown strong support for artists, both provincially and federally, through station‑oriented music programs, which have been strategically placed in prime listening periods.
2073 Rock 102 will offer a new listening voice or a new listening choice, a new advertising choice, a new and accessible ownership group, a new and local approach to CTD initiatives, a strong community involvement.
have had a significant amount of support from potential listeners and
2075 We want to thank you for your time hearing our application and are glad to answer any questions you may have.
2076 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
2077 Commissioner Williams?
2078 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good morning, Mr. And Mrs. Lough, and welcome to this hearing.
a very entrepreneurial couple. What type
of store do you operate in
2080 MRS. LOUGH: It's a paint‑your‑own pottery store as well as doing some glass using. So it's crafty and very ‑‑
2081 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Creative.
2082 MRS. LOUGH: ‑‑ artistic and creative, yes.
WILLIAMS: Yes. If you were successful in your application
for a licence, would you sell ‑‑ sell the store and relocate
LOUGH: Yes, we would. I have been asked that question by people
that know me and know that I love my job, but what I love about it is the
creativity and the people aspect of the job, and I can get that in
2085 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do either of you have any previous broadcasting experience or were associated with any broadcasting entity?
LOUGH: Neither of us do have a
broadcasting background. I believe the
success of our station will be in our people.
I believe there's a tremendous amount of talent in
2087 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Could you help me with a bit of ‑‑ help me gain a better understanding of your business experience in, say, other businesses or other enterprises that you've worked on, either from a start‑up perspective or even a mature business?
LOUGH: So during my high school years
and during my college time in ‑‑ well, high school years and
my year at the
2089 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I'm going to go through ‑‑ your presentation is ‑‑ that has been put together, your application is very thorough and very well done and carefully thought out, so I still have a few questions, and we'll work our way through them together.
note that your proposed Rock 102 is ‑‑ or that Rock 102 is
proposing a classic hits, classic rock blended format that will feature a
predominance of classic hits music in the morning and early afternoon,
switching to a predominance of classic rock music in the late afternoon and
evening. I also note that you're
proposing to offer a limited amount of new alternative rock as part of your
evening programming to appeal to the 18 to 34‑year‑old male segment
of the population. In your Supplementary
Brief, you state that you want to introduce this type of split format in order
to offer greater musical diversity to
LOUGH: All right. So we ‑‑ we propose to start
the day with a classic hits format.
Again, we felt that was very attractive to bring in a female audience,
recognizing though that CHAT and MY 96 are catered towards the female
audience. Because it was very clear that
WILLIAMS: Day parting ‑‑
in the radio industry's experience, day parting different music formats to
serve different audiences sometimes works in smaller markets with limited
tuning choices; however, sometimes this programming approach also serves to
alienate audiences because neither group is ultimately satisfied with the split
format approach. Why do you feel your
female‑oriented classic music mix and your male‑oriented classic
rock mix will work so well in the
LOUGH: We've heard a lot of people say
that they're just tired of the repetition that they experience in
WILLIAMS: That's okay. You can come back to it late if it comes to
you. In your Supplementary Brief, you
said you would keep the slit format until such time as the Commission licences
another commercial station to serve
LOUGH: I guess as we made our
application originally, we felt
2096 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In your executive summary, you indicated that the proposed station will be of great interest to the 25 to 54‑year‑old male audience, but you further state that the alternative rock you're proposing will attract younger males, 18 to 34. Can you tell me what demographic will make up your core target audience under your current proposal?
2097 MR. LOUGH: I think the core target audience consistently will be around 39. We recognize the alternative rock is ‑‑ is focused on a Saturday night program and a little bit throughout the week in the evenings. Alternative rock doesn't have to have that garage sound and just ‑‑ it doesn't have to be labelled as alternative rock, I guess. We recognize ‑‑ we recognize, like, groups like Nickelback does fall under the alternative category, but it's also getting a lot of airplay on stations like MY 96 and such. So we recognize that it does fall under category. There's also sounds that that category has traditionally ‑‑ I guess, sounds that the alternative rock has been labelled as that we probably won't go to that extreme, except, perhaps, on the Saturday nights when we recognize that that's when we will have that audience.
2098 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the group of people that are interested in that music are typically about 39 years old?
2099 MR. LOUGH: On a Saturday night, no, that average will probably drop down to about 24.
2100 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
2101 MR. LOUGH: Yeah.
2102 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your proposed classic hits/classic rock music format will feature a broad range of musical genres and styles. Other applicants are proposing to serve a similar target audience with somewhat similar music formats, including another classic hits/classic rocks blend, rock, full‑time classic rock, and full‑time classic hits. Could you please comment and describe how your proposed format differs, if at all, from these other format proposals, and would you also explain to us why you feel your format is better than, say, an adult standard modern nostalgia or even broad‑based AC music format in that it would be the better choice to serve the current Medicine Hat market. So I guess tell us how you differ, and why are you the best choice?
LOUGH: I guess right from the very
beginning of this application, we made it known that we were looking at a split
format. We've had a few surprises
yesterday where there have been some applicants that ‑‑ that
the formats are, you know, different than what the original, I guess, thought
was. So right from the beginning we felt
that that was ‑‑ that would be appropriate, two formats to
incorporate. That attracted the bulk of
2104 We had a survey that definitely revealed that classic rock was the first one ‑‑ actually, you guys have a copy of the survey. That the classic rock was the preferred format, classic hits was a close second. Why our format over like a nostalgic, such as one of the applicants, I believe that the nostalgic format is a good format. It could compliment ours actually quite well in terms of offering diversity in the market, but also offering different audiences and different advertisers. So I believe that the format such as that could compliment ours, which is complimenting the MY 96 and the CHAT format. I guess another reason why I feel like I could endorse that particular application is because I don't see it as competition to us at all. The other format is classic rock/classic hits. The reality is very ‑‑ a number of applicants have proposed very similar formats, so can I say that ours is better than theirs per se? Well, we're offering classic hits, they're offering classic hits. We're offering classic rock, they're offering classic rock. So if you're looking at that music format, I think all the applicants here are equivalent on that level.
guess the other very key factor is we're proposing a local station and by local
people in the community. Other
applicants are proposing to have an ownership in a different market, perhaps
2106 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tell me a bit about the benefit of the local ownership in the community. That's ‑‑ I'm interested in how you ‑‑ what you think about that. What are the benefits?
LOUGH: I think the simple fact that when
you're part of the community and when you've lived in the community, you kind
of know. You kind of know who you can go
to to find stories and who you can rely on in terms of support for, you know,
say a concert or something like that. I
guess you know the connections. You know
where you can go that if you need something ‑‑ and no doubt
that radio is an avenue ‑‑ is a venue where people go to when
they need something. Charitable groups
will go to a radio station and say, hey, we're starving for this. Can you help us get the support we need? And I think if you have to call up
2108 Sometimes there's timing issues. If I was to mention about the fires in Kelowna in 2003 ‑‑ as I've talked to people out there, I've heard complaints that, you know, the major broadcasters in that market that don't live there took a while, and I guess ‑‑ took a while to respond effectively. I think that when there's a local ownership, the issues are more personal. You're willing to get involved. You might not have that business focus, that focus on the bottom line every time. I think you just see issues, and you want your community to be better so ‑‑
2109 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have anything you'd like to add, Mrs. Lough?
LOUGH: I would just like to say that I
think being part of the community, with Pat having grown up there, they're not
just ‑‑ Canada Day isn't just an event, it's part of his
history, it's part of our history as a family.
There are events and parts of
2111 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
2112 I note you are proposing to offer a minimum of 56 hours of local programming per week. You state that this would give you the flexibility to pick up a national syndicated program such as a classic rock magazine. You also state in your 30th of June 2006 deficiency response that most, if not all, of our programming will be produced locally. Can you please reconcile these two statements?
LOUGH: Right. There are a variety of music magazines that
are available to independent broadcasters, some of them are ‑‑
some of them are originated by, say, Standard Radio and such. We like the idea of being able to offer
WILLIAMS: In your 30th of June
deficiency response, you specify that your programming will be unique and
2115 MR. LOUGH: In what I read today, we have committed to the five hours ‑‑ and in here I notice that we put five hours and 25 minutes. I guess that was a miscalculation. It was five and a ‑‑ five hours ‑‑ five and a quarter hours, which is ‑‑ right? Which ‑‑ no. Yeah, five hours and 15 minutes. So I apologize for that. That was in the response. I'll gladly take five hours and 25 minutes. I ‑‑ there's not a lot of difference there, I don't think.
what we read today, we proposed, like a ski report, snow conditions for out at
Cypress Hills, for out near the
2117 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would these programs, for the most part, be locally produced or acquired or syndicated or a combination?
LOUGH: You know, pretty much everything
would be locally produced. I'm not sure
if CIBC Wood Gundy has a radio personality in
2119 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Try to find a local broker, for example, and ‑‑
2120 MR. LOUGH: Exactly. One of our support letters was from a financial company, I'm drawing a blank on the name of them. Do you know what, they've supported us. They would be one that we'd probably look at going to first, and say, you know, this is what we want to do. Is this something that your company would be interested in doing? Something like the public service announcements, you know, Canadian Blood Bank, well, that's produced elsewhere. That would be something that we would just acquire and make available. Crime stoppers, that would be a local initiative.
WILLIAMS: You state that your station
will provide a local service that would cater to what you described as the
underserved male demographic group in
2122 MR. LOUGH: Right. We see voice tracking as a component that will allow new broadcasters to get onto the radio. I'm not a personality. That's ‑‑ I'm not going to be a voice on the station, that's not my area of comfortness. And we recognize that there are other people that are like that, but have that genuine desire to, you know, perfect something. So we see voice tracking as an option where a new broadcaster or a college student can get on the radio, and, yeah, it might take them three tries, but then they can have something that represents them well. We also see voice tracking as an option to allow us a larger pool of talent that ‑‑ radio has a lot of part‑time positions, so we see voice tracking as an opportunity to have an individual who may work for another company but have a genuine interest in getting into radio, have them slotted at whatever, 10:00 or 9:00 until 12:00 or whatever, in a period where, yeah, they're actually at work, but ‑‑ but they want to pursue this career path, I guess, at some point. And it might be immediate, it might be a job sharing type thing that they want to do kind of indefinitely.
2123 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Could you tell us how much of the five hours and 15 or 25 minutes of news would be station produced?
2124 MR. LOUGH: My immediate reaction is it's all station‑produced because this is our only station, but we do recognize that there are the Broadcast News services where smaller markets tend to rely on the Broadcast News to get the national stories. I guess other forms of news would be CTV News Net, CNN. We can observe, we can scan, we can monitor these other news services and still do a local ‑‑ do everything totally local.
2125 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Localized, yes.
2126 MR. LOUGH: So we are proposing 100 percent of our ‑‑ 100 percent of our news production will be local. I guess, you know, if we want to follow the commentaries of, say, our Prime Minister making a comment in Ottawa, we want to play that snip‑it, well, I guess that's not local, is it, unless I have a reporter actually in Ottawa. You know, so I guess that's an area that I have a fairly good understanding of. All of our production will be local, but, obviously, there will be sound bytes that are from other markets.
2127 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mmhmm. Do you believe that your new staff would be sufficient to produce not only this amount of news but also newscasts of a high quality?
2128 MR. LOUGH: I think everybody in our station in the first year is going to wear multiple hats. If we are looking at a station manager doing some researching ‑‑ some research, I should say, for the news department, and then they say, hey, you know what, these are the top stories of the day. You guys now refine, and you guys, you know, make it appropriate for today and, you know, cut and add and do whatever you need to do. I think there ‑‑ in a ‑‑ in a very entrepreneurial‑type station, everybody wears multiple hats.
2129 MRS. LOUGH: If I might add, I ‑‑
2130 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Of course.
2131 MRS. LOUGH: ‑‑ I don't think that we are that naive to think that there won't be a growth curve. We know that we are new, and we know that we will learn somewhat, but it's our intention, obviously, in our own community to not embarrass ourselves and to really come out of the chute being incredibly professional and then grow from there.
2132 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You've indicated that Rock 102 will employ the equivalent of two full‑time news reporters and that you plan to utilize a college student on the weekend to help with the newscasts. Could you tell us who will be responsible for managing the content of your news programming?
2133 MR. LOUGH: So the management ‑‑ the overall management would be responsible by the news director and, ultimately, by the station manager.
2134 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I note you've provided no information on your staffing plans in the area of general programming. Could you provide us with the type of resources you will allocate to production and on‑air broadcasting?
2135 MR. LOUGH: I have it somewhere. So we've proposed five DJs, two news reporters, which will result in a total of seven on‑air personalities, four technical people, and within technical, I'm including the scheduler, technical and then two creative people, so I kind of lump that as four technical people, and then two administration people, one ‑‑ one of those being the manager.
2136 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. In your application, you indicate that $1,500 will be allocated to the development of the Medicine Hat Folk Festival. How will this funding be used by the Folk Festival to support Canadian talent? Will it be used to underwrite Canadian performers appearing at the festival, or used to underwrite administrative and/or infrastructure costs?
2137 MR. LOUGH: Our initial discussion with the folk music group was to take on ‑‑ to offer them some funding to underwrite or to help the administration side of it. We would like to give them, I guess, enough latitude that, you know what, should they have success on one particular concert and should they feel that's not really necessary, if they wanted to offer that as a scholarship as part of their songwriting competition or whatever, we'd like to give them that latitude. We will offer them the Appendix 1(a), which will very specifically say this is what's allowed and this isn't what's allowed. If they're in compliance with that, we will sign the cheque and hand that off to them.
2138 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Should the Commission decide that some of these costs do not qualify as direct contributions to the development of Canadian talent, would you be prepared to redirect these costs to an eligible initiative as set out in the just mentioned Appendix 1?
2139 MR. LOUGH: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Okay. In your response to deficiency questions,
dated 30th of June, you make reference to a survey that you conducted. Did you conduct or commission a study that
would support a demand in the
2141 MR. LOUGH: So in what you received today, there was a copy of the survey.
2142 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, all right.
2143 MR. LOUGH: We did the survey kind of involving two particular avenues: One being a web survey where we got the information out to people saying, you know what, if you want to have an impact on a new radio station that potentially could be licensed from Medicine Hat, please hit this website and take the survey, so that's the bulk of that survey. We also wanted to offer people that ‑‑ you know, surprisingly, some people don't have access to the Internet. We also wanted to offer people a toll free number where they could call in and kind of ‑‑ and take a similar survey. So the surveys weren't exactly the same. We've identified all the questions in the survey. The telephone survey was a scaled‑down version. I think there were eight questions in that. Through that service, we got a printout of how many people selected option 1 relating to this particular question.
2144 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. After examining the methodology used to project audience, we note that you have not taken into account varying levels of interest in the proposed musical format from various demographic groups. Instead, you've used projections of 15 plus population and multiplied these by a factor of 19.5 hours per week of radio listening to arrive at your projections. Do you think that failing to take into account varying degrees of interest in your proposed format from various demographic segments may have resulted in a possible overestimate of your projected audience?
LOUGH: I think
2146 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry, I missed that.
LOUGH: Sorry, I think
WILLIAMS: We may have covered this to
some extent earlier, but do you believe the
LOUGH: I believe the
2150 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. How did you, as a family business group, decide that you wanted to enter this particular type of business? What attracted you to this business, what got your attention, and what ultimately made you decide that it was something that you wanted to pursue?
LOUGH: Getting involved in audio‑visual
at a young age ‑‑ sorry, getting involved with sound at a
young age got me involved with various bands in the
2152 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And, Mrs. Lough, from your perspective?
2153 MRS. LOUGH: I have had the fortunate pleasure of loving any job that I have had. I have a been a director of a pregnant ‑‑ or assistant director of a pregnancy care centre for years, and I loved it. I have worked in a church, and I loved it, and I love my job now. Pat, unfortunately, has not had the opportunity to love his job, and as a ‑‑ as his wife and as a family, I am certainly wanting to allow him the pleasure of loving his job and being passionate about it, and it's been clear to me and clear more every day that radio is what he loves. So I'm certainly willing, and we're willing, as a family, to make it a career choice.
2154 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Thank you both very much for helping us gain a better understanding of your application.
2155 That concludes my questioning, Madam Chair.
2156 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
2157 Vice‑Chair Arpin...?
2158 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Thank you very much, Madam Cram.
2159 Which part of the radio are you more interested in, management, sales, programming? Which functions within the radio organization has ‑‑ seems to be more palatable to your taste?
2160 MR. LOUGH: I have a great interest, I think, in the management and the sales component of it. I like people, and I see the sales component of that being strengthened by that. I also think I have a good business sense. From the business sense, I ‑‑ from the business sense, I think I can do a good job managing that. We've managed the staff of 12 people through the studio. Staff like working for us, for my wife in particular, but I think we've got a very good business sense as a family, as a couple. I also have a good technical component, so I think I can recognize ‑‑ I'm not saying I want to be the one in there doing all the technical stuff because I think there are opportunities for others to ‑‑ to learn that and to develop. I've done that. That's been a phase of my life that I've enjoyed. I have that component behind me now, and I'd like to explore ‑‑ I have done some sales, and I see the sales and the management kind of going hand in hand for me.
2161 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Another more technical question that we've asked to all of the applicants that have appeared before us over the last day and a half is we've asked them if what was the median age of their ‑‑ of their listener, and with ‑‑ and if it skews more towards male or female. I think in your ‑‑ in the project, it will be skewing more towards male, but what will be the median age?
2162 MR. LOUGH: Yeah, I believe we indicated today that probably around 38, 39 is what we would see as the median age for our classic rock.
2163 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: For classic rock. For ‑‑ and for your ‑‑ taking into consideration the actual stations in the market then, obviously, the age ‑‑ the various demographic that you have in Medicine Hat, so you think 38, 39 will be your ‑‑ what you'd kind of be catering to?
2164 MR. LOUGH: Yes. We see MY 96 catering to a young audience. CHAT ‑‑ CHAT is not just ‑‑ CHAT is for country people, so to say that, you know, you're old, you're going to listen to CHAT, but, no, that's not true. So we see our median age of 38, 39 as probably ideal. We will attract people that don't want to listen to CHAT. We will attract people that ‑‑ we'll attract older people that don't want to listen to CHAT, I guess, is what I'm saying. Just because you're older, doesn't mean that you like country.
2165 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: No, yeah. Thank you, Madam Chair.
2166 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Lough.
2167 You now have two minutes to give us your why we should licence you in preference to the others.
2168 MR. LOUGH: All right.
2169 Madam Chair, we sincerely want to thank you for giving us the opportunity to present our application today. Radio, as I hope has been clear, has been a passion of mine for a number of years. In fact, my wife reminded me just last night that on our very first date, she was asked the question by me what she thought of radio.
2170 The reality is, we will never be in a position to buy a station such as many of the other applicants ‑‑ actually, all of the other applicants in this room have done within the last couple of years. We recognize that we must get our start by finding the very best talent and pursue a start‑up station.
I saw the CRTC had a call ‑‑ had opened a call for my hometown
is no doubt that
2173 We ask you, the Commission, to grant us the opportunity to get into broadcasting by approving our application. We've done the very best that we can with the limited resources in making our application attractive and competitive. We pledge more than what the ‑‑ we pledge more than what is required for Canadian content, we pledge more than what is required for CTD, and we will get back to my hometown to ensure that the station is truly local and best served.
2174 We appear here today not requesting licence number 46, not requesting licence number 25, but we're requesting licence number 1.
2175 Thank you for your time and consideration.
2176 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Lough, Mrs. Lough.
2177 We'll now take a 15‑minute break, meaning we get back here at 11:25, and we will then be proceeding with phase II.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1111 / Suspension à 1111
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1125 / Reprise à 1125
2178 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
2179 THE CHAIRPERSON: Madam Secretary...?
2180 THE SECRETARY: We've now reached Phase II of the process in which applicants appear in the same order to intervene on competing applications, if they wish. For the record, Newcap Inc. has indicated that they will not appear, as well as numbered company 1182743 Alberta Limited and Vista Radio.
2181 I would now call on Lighthouse Broadcasting Limited to come forward. Mr. Raible, you have ten minutes for your presentation.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
2182 MR. RAIBLE: Good morning. I just wanted to intervene in response to Newcap's application. I noticed yesterday ‑‑ oh, I'm sorry, should I continue?
2183 THE CHAIRPERSON: Are you replying to something that Newcap asserted against you?
2184 MR. RAIBLE: That they said yesterday about the market.
2185 THE CHAIRPERSON: About the market?
RAIBLE: They made a comment about the
booming market in
2187 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
2188 MR. RAIBLE: Thank you.
again, just in reference to a continual booming economy in
2190 Thank you.
2191 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
2192 THE SECRETARY: I would now call on Golden West Broadcasting Limited to come over forward for their Phase II process.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
2193 MR. HILDEBRAND: Thank you.
2194 I only have one comment and that relates to the CJVR application on the 35 to 40‑percent music question, so that's really the only comment I have.
2195 Thank you.
2196 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Which comment?
2197 MR. HILDEBRAND: Well, that, I mean, they should basically stay with what they had applied for.
2198 Thank you.
2199 THE SECRETARY: The next applicant to appear would be Radio CJVR Limited.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
2200 MR. SINGER: Good morning, Madam Chair, Commissioners. I don't know if this is the place to answer this question. There was a question posed by Commissioner Arpin to me yesterday re the CBC. I do have some information on that. If it's appropriate at this time, I'd like to ‑‑
2201 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, go ahead.
2202 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Yes, it is.
2203 MR. SINGER: ‑‑ comment on that. Thank you.
response to the point raised yesterday, we had D.M. Allen(ph), our consulting
engineering firm contact the CBC, and if I could just read a quick letter that
was sent to us yesterday, perhaps it would shed some light to the response to
that. "Please accept this letter as
indication that the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation is prepared to enter into
negotiations with multiple licences for the shared use of CBC's broadcasting
2205 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: That's partly in answer to the question that I asked because my question was, will the CBC allow ‑‑ because an argument has been made here throughout the hearing that if we were to licence two new applicants with ‑‑ in the same format, then the first one on air will have ‑‑ will pick its own format, the other one will have to find something else. And my question was, since you are ‑‑ most of you are all going on the CBC tower, will the CBC allow one broadcaster to be on air first, or will they say to everybody, no, you'll do it in the ‑‑ all at once, or are we going to ‑‑ because they will have to turn off their transmitter for a couple of nights, so they probably won't be ready to turn ‑‑ to turn their transmitters and all the other tenants off air for more than once. So that's why I asked the question, will the CBC allow any of the applicants, if we ‑‑ or the new licencees, if there are more than one, to first launch and much before ‑‑ ahead of the second one. So that answer doesn't allude to that, but my expectation, I will ‑‑ and I'm talking of ‑‑ like, for myself is that since they will have to put down their transmitters a few days over a couple of weeks and that more than likely they will say to everybody, we're going ‑‑ make a single plan, and we'll get installed at the same time. So the pick in the ‑‑ who is going to pick the format first will ‑‑ has to be something that you will have to deal with before going on air.
2206 MR. SINGER: That is correct, and I guess, Mr. Commissioner, that is our point of view, that we will have to deal with whatever situation, and we will be prepared to do that.
2207 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Okay, fine, thank you.
2208 MR. SINGER: That's all I have, thank you.
2209 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Singer.
2210 Madam Secretary...?
2211 THE SECRETARY: I would now call on Harvard Broadcasting Limited to come forward.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
2212 MR. COWIE: Thank you, Madam Chair, this is unchartered territory for us.
2213 Harvard, historically, does not participate in this phase of the hearings, but in this case, we feel we must, and it ‑‑ we wish to refer to CJVR's attempt to change the Canadian content promise in their application, and just to solidify the fact that that's fundamentally important and should not be changed during a hearing process.
2214 Thank you.
2215 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Cowie.
2216 Madam Secretary...?
2217 THE SECRETARY: And I would now call on Rogers Broadcasting Limited to come forward.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
2218 MR. MILES: Thank you, Madam Chair.
2219 We, too, do not normally appear during this process, but in the presentation yesterday, we did hear one of the applicants to appear to increase their commitments from 35 to 40 percent at the hearing stage of the review process. This proposed Canadian content level is one of the key criteria of the application process. It may well have been an honest mistake, but I think we have to insist that the commitment stays at 35 percent on the basis that it was submitted in the broad‑based business plans and programming formats.
2220 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Miles.
2221 Madam Secretary...?
2222 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
2223 I'd just like to indicate for the record that Pat Lough, on behalf of a corporation to be incorporated, will not be appearing in this phase, so this will complete Phase II of the process, and we are now ready to proceed to Phase III, which is the ‑‑ where parties appear in the order set out in the agenda to present their intervention.
2224 I would now call on the first appearing intervenor for CIRPA, Mr. Alexander Mair. I'm sorry for the pronunciation. When you're ready, you have ten minutes for your presentation. If you could please introduce yourself for the record.
2225 Thank you.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
2226 MR. MAIR: Good morning, I'm Alexander Mair. I'm appearing on behalf of CIRPA. Excuse me if I cough during the presentation, but I'm just getting over a case of bronchitis, and the dry, hot air in the hotel has aggravated it quite a bit yesterday and this morning.
background on myself, I'm representing more than 160 members of CIRPA from
coast to coast. As well as being a
director of CIRPA, I've also been a director of FACTOR, Radio Starmaker Fund,
the Audio‑Video Licensing Agency, SOCAN, the Canadian Music Publishers
Association, and the National Aboriginal Recording Industry Association. Earlier in my career, I was vice‑president
of what is now called Universal Music
2228 This is CIRPA's only appearance at these hearings, so our comments cover all the applications.
2229 We were surprised initially that with the Review of Radio held that there would be licences issued before the results of that review, so we are assuming that whatever the results of the review are, any licences issued today or out of today's hearings would be bound by the same new rules and regulations that would arise out of the Review of Radio held earlier this year.
2230 At the 1998 Review of Radio, the Commission, in its wisdom, raised the Cancon levels from 30 to 35 percent, the first increase in 28 years. The Commission also stated that they expected stations to voluntarily increase to 40 percent over the next five years. Almost every licence issued after 1998 was at the 40 percent level. We are not aware of any of these new stations having any problems with this level of Cancon.
also promised increased diversity, which, sadly, has not happened. As CRIA's submission to the review indicated
the top ten most played Canadian artists receive almost 50 percent of the
Cancon airplay with Brian Adams being the most‑played artist in
2232 At the recent Review of Radio, we proposed 45 percent Cancon level and 50 percent of that reserved airplay be allocated to independent labels. A review of the sound scan analysis of the top 200 CDs ‑‑ top 200 selling CDs in Canada last week showed 57 were by Canadian artists. Canadian artists held the number 1, number 2, number 3, number 9, and number 10 positions on the charts with two of them, Gregory Charles at number 1, and Sarah McLachlan being on independent labels.
the 57 titles on the top 200 charts, 43 were on independent labels, more than
two‑thirds of the best‑selling Canadian CDs of the week. Considering the influence of American media,
music is our most successful cultural industry.
In an analysis of sound scanned sales charts, when Canadian artists and
indie labels are added to the independent distribution figures, Canadian
artists and indie labels do almost 48 percent of the total CD business in
do acknowledge that some of the independently distributed product is not
Cancon, but we're still major ‑‑ we're ‑‑ the
independent sector with Canadian artists is bigger than any of the four multi‑nationals;
however, many of the independent label artists suffer from lack of strong
airplay, which hinders their success.
The more successful a CD is in
2235 I was pleased yesterday when Elmer Hildebrand acknowledged that their station was at 45 percent voluntarily.
2236 I'd like to talk about Radio Starmaker and FACTOR. Throughout the last number of applications at this hearing and others, broadcasters have chosen to allocate most of their funding to Radio Starmaker. I remind the Commission that Starmaker came out of the 1998 hearings and was created to deal with the six‑percent surcharge on the sale of successful broadcast stations. It was not envisioned, at that time, to be any sort of larger animal than that. It was not expected to compete with FACTOR for funding from broadcasters or from government. Why most of the broadcasters are putting their money towards Starmaker is a question that has not been answered. We can only assume that part of it is their desire to put as much of it into Starmaker, as they control Starmaker, and much of the funding from Starmaker flows back into radio and television time buys, and, therefore, it also allows the radio stations to hang their names on ‑‑ tied in with the bigger Canadian stars who get Starmaker support. One of the broadcasters yesterday mentioned Nickelback is ‑‑ he was proud that they were supported by Starmaker; however, the recording that Starmaker supported was funded by FACTOR initially. This is a major, major concern to the independent sector.
2237 FACTOR turns down approximately 75 percent of all applicants due to lack of sufficient funds. Radio Starmaker has taken five years to get to the point that there is a sufficient demand for the funds available at Radio Starmaker. It has only been the last two Starmaker meetings that demand this exceeded supply of money, and that included Starmaker setting up all sorts of new programs in order to utilize the funds.
2238 Starving FACTOR will lead to a decline in the quality and quantity of Cancon releases and impede the growth of the Canadian Music Industry. Something that's important when ‑‑ during the hearings, we've talked about ARIA and SRIA, the provincial music industry association is getting support from broadcasters. Their main support comes from FACTOR. They need a healthy FACTOR in order for them to do their jobs regionally.
2239 CIRPA supports increased exposure of Canadian artists, particularly during prime time. We do not support the ghettoization as caused by beaver bins(ph) or other such programming during periods of low listenership. Cancon must be spread equally throughout the broadcast day and evening.
2240 CIRPA also believes running contests locally, in order to choose one act who may get airplay on a particular station is more of a station promotion that a CTD commitment. Obviously, only artists who perform music in the genre of the station running the contest have a chance of winning, so the contest is not open to all local artists, only those performing music in the appropriate genre. CTD funds are better spent to a provincial organization or a national organization such as FACTOR or CIRPA.
2241 The question of emerging artists is dear to our heart, and we believe the indie label carve out would lead to more emerging artists getting exposure.
a gold record in
2243 Thank you.
2244 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Mair.
2245 I'm not sure I understood your first point. You're assuming that the people whom we licence here at this hearing would automatically be under ‑‑ licensed under and conditioned subject to an as yet unpublished decision?
2246 MR. MAIR: Mmhmm. Is that not correct?
2247 THE CHAIRPERSON: How can that be possible when ‑‑ I mean, they're applying under the law. The policy is as it is today. And I'll give you an example. Let me give you an example. If we changed in the new decision our policy on CTD to say all of the money should go to radio stations in Nunavut, the Northwest Territories, and the Yukon, we would then unilaterally, without their knowledge, simply impose new CTDs on anybody we licensed under this?
2248 MR. MAIR: It's not so much CTD, but the most important is the Cancon levels. If, in your wisdom, when the decision of the Review of Radio comes out and you agreed with SOCAN at 50 percent or CIRPA at 45 percent and said effective January 1st, 2008, the Cancon level will be 45 percent, that would apply to all of the licensed broadcasters ‑‑
2249 THE CHAIRPERSON: I see.
2250 MR. MAIR: And I assume it would apply to the ones who are being licensed today, and I'd just like that confirmed or denied.
2251 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, I can't give you a position of law, so maybe you can talk to your lawyers. You said since the radio policy almost all radio stations have been licensed at 40 percent. Now, I've been around since then, and I've got to say, my memory of that is not ‑‑ not in accordance with yours. Do you have any statistical basis for that?
2252 MR. MAIR: The monitoring that has been done by CIRPA of the mainstream licensing has been at 40 percent. Obviously, ethnic broadcasting, Christian broadcasting, some other niche programming is at a lower level.
2253 THE CHAIRPERSON: So what percentage of the mainstreams have been licensed at 40 percent?
2254 MR. MAIR: From our understanding, all of them.
2255 THE CHAIRPERSON: A hundred percent?
2256 MR. MAIR: Yes. Commissioner Arpin is disagreeing.
2257 THE CHAIRPERSON: I have to say, I mean, it would seem ‑‑yeah, the majority, but not all. I mean, I have to say in some ‑‑ I would think in some formats it would be virtually impossible, anyway.
2258 I hear what you are saying about Starmaker versus FACTOR, but with both of them, we, the Commission, have no control over where the money goes and of the governance, and really that's, I guess, not our issue.
2259 I did want to refer to the written position that CIRPA had filed, and do you have that at paragraph 5?
MAIR: Unfortunately, Air
CHAIRPERSON: Join the club. Join the club. It says, "We are disturbed by the lack
of commitment to funding for FACTOR as a total of the applicants overall
Canadian talent development commitments.
FACTOR is a proven success story whose funding greatly assists in the
development of new artists and the marketing of existing ones, both for CIRPA's
members and the industry as a whole."
Would you be surprised that perhaps in
2262 MR. MAIR: It is quite possible.
CHAIRPERSON: Yeah, and I'll tell you
what the 2006 report showed. Out of the
$12,560,000 allocated in the FACTOR report allocated by province ‑‑
they didn't allocate another 1.5 million because it was for other reasons, so
they didn't allocate it by province. So
out of the 12,560,000,
2264 MR. MAIR: In our submission, we supported funds being allocated to the provincial associations as being acceptable CTD commitments.
2265 THE CHAIRPERSON: And would that then reduce your support ‑‑ or FACTOR's support for ARIA and SRIA?
2266 MR. MAIR: No, not at all, but I ‑‑ on that, I ‑‑ I'm not ‑‑ obviously, I don't prepare FACTOR's reporting system, and FACTOR is not allowed to come to this. Because of the makeup of their Board, they cannot speak out publicly. A lot of artists signed to Toronto‑based record companies are from other parts of the country.
2267 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, I don't know if ‑‑
2268 MR. MAIR: And that may ‑‑
2269 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ if you read the record ‑‑ if you read the record, the report, the allocation is based on applications from each province. That's how it goes, and I understand that completely. The real issue is whether or not there is sufficient effort being put to training people ‑‑ or monies to training people outside of Toronto as to how to make applications and what ‑‑ what is available.
you'll notice, the FACTOR report, the only place they had seminars was in
2271 Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mair.
2272 THE SECRETARY: Madam Chair, we are now ready to proceed to the next appearing intervenor, and I would like to indicate, for the record, that Factory Optical Holdings will not be appearing as they were listed on the agenda.
would now call the next two appearing intervenors that are in support of
Harvard Broadcasting, the American ‑‑ I'm sorry, Aboriginal
Media Education Fund and Carpet One,
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
2274 MS WATSON: Good morning, everyone, good morning Vice‑Chair, Commissioners, and Commission Staff. I'm Murielle Watson, and I'm the Executive Director of the Aboriginal Media Educational Fund known as AMEF. I was looking for an easy way to pronounce all this. I'm very pleased to appear before you to discuss this important initiative and how the support of broadcasters, like Harvard Broadcasting Inc., are critical to the success of this endeavour.
2275 First, let me begin by discussing the issues that underline the need for this program. The Aboriginal Broadcast Industry is relatively new and could possibly be described as being in its infancy. While the presence of Aboriginal peoples in front and behind the cameras and microphones has been a sporadic part of the Canadian Broadcast Industry since its creation, it is only within the past decade that we have begun to design and operate our own broadcasting services. In this regard, we are fairly new players in this industry and finally starting to establish an accepted and recognized presence in the field.
2276 Collectively, whether it is in the area of radio or television broadcasting, we are still very much in the process of learning the many aspects of the broadcast business. As such, we are developing new skill‑set, new practices, and new ways of doing business.
being in its second licence term, one of the biggest challenges that still
remains for APTN is the sourcing of qualified and skilled staff for all
positions. In discussion with other
broadcasters, both within and outside the Aboriginal community, we have
confirmed that this is a systemic issue, rather than one specific to
2278 Closer examination revealed that Aboriginal persons, for the most part, are not aware of the career opportunities. For many of our youth, this industry is not accessible to them, or, if it is, they think it's beyond their reach, both institutionally and financially. The AMEF seeks to remedy all three of these impediments.
2279 The Aboriginal Media Educational Fund is a not‑for‑profit charitable organization, an initiative of the Aboriginal People's Television Network, but AMEF is an independent organization with a mandate to encourage, promote, and make possible the development of an Aboriginal pool of film, television, broadcast, and media professionals, and create opportunities for original programming and professional development, which will be recognized nationally and internationally.
2280 AMEF will develop a talent pool that can produce, distribute, market, and broadcast programming that will be relevant to today's Aboriginal culture, both nationally and internationally, and highlight the rich First Nations, Inuit, and Metis history. It will assist the target groups in finding training and professional development opportunities in all areas of the media industry from technical to directing, from on air, to management. This will be done through professional development, scholarships, tailored programs, and mentorships and will target the following groups: The first one will be encouraging the careers in all aspects of production and broadcasting for Aboriginal youth through various outreach opportunities, job fairs, presentations, and a very visible presence in schools and such venues where our youth can be reached and see the opportunities offered to them.
2281 The second will be promoting and facilitating hands‑on experience for careers in production and broadcasting for recent Aboriginal graduates of media programs.
2282 And the third being developing new skills for Aboriginal production professionals wanting to take the next step by entering into the international market. AMEF will also facilitate partnerships with international Indigenous production and broadcasting entities with the goal of forming alliances and partnerships, which will provide exporting opportunities and exchanges.
must, again, reiterate that AMEF will operate separately from APTN. While APTN has been instrumental in breathing
life into the initiative, its role will be, largely, to provide support through
a position on the Board and to help promote the fund to the communities they
serve. It is the goal of the AMEF to
develop talented Aboriginal media people who can work anywhere in
2284 AMEF will be run by a Board that at the moment has six members, five of which have been confirmed. In addition to this, we have assembled an advisory committee that spans the broadcast and film production industries. This group of talented and accomplished individuals will provide guidance on a range of issues including advice on raising funds, attracting partnerships with established professionals, and direction on career opportunities within media. The Board members will be instrumental in establishing a mentoring position within the companies they represent and expending the opportunities to companies beyond their own.
of the advisory committee members will be well‑known to the Commission,
and in combination, represent a broad section of the media in
2286 AMEF represents the truest form of talent development amongst a group of people that are underrepresented in the broadcast system. We will neither attempt to prescribe areas of development, nor will we limit the training we will offer.
2287 If in a single year, all applicants for funding are interested in getting into radio, then we will seek to find opportunities for them. In this way, the fund cannot be seen to be supporting one medium or one avenue of development over another.
2288 Our goal is to raise 10 million to provide a secure funding base that will ensure the program's longevity if guaranteed.
2289 Awareness will not be achieved overnight, and so the fund must be well‑financed and supported to enable it to operate over the critical period of the first five years.
2290 As well, AMEF is committed to provide an annual report card about the Commission and the various broadcasting entities that will support it. This report card will clearly demonstrate the level of participation, types of training or professional development opportunities, as well as any other endeavour that will have been provided through the fund.
2291 AMEF intends to be very transparent in this regard with a view of ensuring that the entities that will fund this initiative will be able to see concrete results and not worry that they have sunk funds into a bottomless pit from which they see no results.
is through the support of broadcasters like Harvard Broadcasting that our goal
to expend the opportunities and contributions of Aboriginal people within the
broadcast system will be realized.
Support for our community is not new to Harvard. Harvard was the first radio broadcaster to
create a long ‑‑ yearlong mentoring program for Aboriginal
news people, the first to incorporate an Aboriginal feature into a mainstream
radio service, and the first to expend this program throughout its existing and
proposed stations. Not only did Harvard
commit to this mentoring program in
2293 For people whose history is communicated orally and for communities that are enriched by the sharing of stories, the broadcasting industry would seem a natural vocation. It is this intuitive sense of appropriateness that makes the AMEF such a natural talented development opportunity. It is the need within the broadcasting system for trained personnel and the shortage of training and/or funding that make AMEF particularly relevant.
2294 The Commission has recognized the role of Aboriginal persons within the broadcasting system and given us the means to ‑‑ by which we can share our cultures and enrich our people, as well as allow Canadians to share into a unique world view and perspective.
2295 Now, we ask that the Commission recognize that hand in hand with having the way to communicate comes the need to develop the personnel that will bring our stories to life and make the most of the opportunities you have provided.
2296 Furthermore, AMEF will serve to develop a variety of skilled individuals and a multitude of disciplines related to the broadcast sector. As such, it's not meant to take anything away from other issue‑specific initiatives, but to become a broad‑based effort to boast their opportunities in many areas.
is a very constructive beginning to developing this talent, and we ask that the
Commission confirm its suitability as a recipient of Canadian Talent
Development Funds, and further, that they recognize Harvard Broadcasting's
exemplary initiatives in serving the communities in which they operate by
awarding them a licence in
2298 Thank you for your time and attention, and any questions, I'm here.
2299 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms Watson.
2300 You're Mr. Harvey?
2301 MR. HARVEY: Yes, I am.
2302 THE CHAIRPERSON: If you could proceed, and then we'll deal with questions at the end.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
2303 MR. HARVEY: Thank you, Madam Chairman.
and gentlemen, I would first of all like to apologize for not having a copy of
my presentation. This isn't something
that I do every day, but it is something that I feel strongly about today. So as I proceed, I would like to say thank
you for accepting my request to appear before your hearing relative to
Harvard's application for a licence to operate a new mainstream rock FM station
own a diverse small company with my brother in
format Harvard is proposing is lacking on the airwaves presently and would
appeal to a younger male audience, an audience that is certainly present in
2309 As a business owner, it is important to get results from our advertising, but it is extremely gratifying to be part of the charitable programs Harvard is involved in. Their commitment to every community they serve is overwhelming, and I have been involved in many projects in small town Assiniboia, Saskatchewan, that would not have come to fruition without the help of Harvard.
closing, I would like to summarize my position with regards to Harvard's
application. I feel they would be a
great business partner in
2311 Thank you for your consideration.
2312 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Harvey. Please don't leave the table. There may be questions.
2313 Commissioner Pennefather...?
2314 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
2315 Good afternoon. Thank you.
2316 I'm going to just ‑‑ I have a couple questions for you, Madam Watson. Thank you for your presentation because it filled in a few of the blanks on the ‑‑ what AMEF, the Aboriginal Media Educational Fund is all about. I went to the website, and I gather from the website and from your presentation, though, we're in early days, programs are not as yet functioning; is that correct?
WATSON: Absolutely. What we're trying to do is we're trying to do
as much research as possible, which we're near completing. I will be presenting to a Board meeting,
which is taking place in the next couple of weeks. But what we wanted to do is make quite sure
that everything was in place before we started running, so we have a list of
all our potential contacts and mentors.
We have a list of all the funding opportunities. We have been meeting with everyone in the
private and public sector across
2318 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Okay. Well, I'm sure you're aware of one of the reasons I'm asking the question, and amongst others, it's very important to have a good sense of where the fund is going and why. But at the very end, you do say, "AMEF is a constructive beginning to develop this talent. We ask the Commission to confirm its suitability as a recipient of CTD funds." So you also mention in your letter that you submitted ‑‑ provide direct funding allows to allocated funds to program and initiatives most urgently needed. So at this stage, can you help us by understanding, your understanding of how the programs, as you see them developing, would be under the current rules of CTD initiatives, appropriate allocation.
2319 MS WATSON: Well, essentially, what we're looking at is making ‑‑ interviewing the people where a need has been expressed by both the person and the market. And to give you an example, from the Writers Guild and from many of the producers, I have heard that writing skills are much required. So the first thing ‑‑ one of the things that I have done is I've approached the Writers Guild of Canada, and together, we will be putting together a program, which we will fund. They will develop with us to make sure that, you know, the proper requirements are met.
2320 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: And these are writing skills in broadcasting?
2321 MS WATSON: These would be writing skills in broadcasting, yes.
2322 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: So there would be skill training and mentorship?
2323 MS WATSON: Absolutely. Mentorship I have always found is an extremely important element in any program. It is not enough to give a two‑day seminar or have a weeks ‑‑ you know, and then just let them go into the great wide world. You need to be able to make sure that you follow‑up. One of the great ways of following up and making sure that whatever they learn is put into practice is to go through the mentorship. There could be two mentorship processes. Depending on the level of the candidate, there could be placement with the broadcasters or on a set, and there could also be a mentor of which has been selected, which is near to what that particular participant wishes to attain, and where they could call on a regular basis and get advice.
2324 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Okay. One last question, and I don't know if you're able to answer this at this point. But from a governance point of view, can you foresee the possibility that broadcaster participating by means of a CTD contribution would be able the have a say in how the funds would be used?
2325 MS WATSON: Not with what I'm presently putting together, and I've had some great help with some people who have been spending a lot of time writing the rules.
2326 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Okay. So it would be, generally, seen as more of an overall contribution to the fund, and ‑‑
2327 MS WATSON: Absolutely.
2328 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: ‑‑ the fund would make the decisions.
2329 MS WATSON: We make the decisions, absolutely. It is necessary, and I can assure you that nobody that will be contributing will be sitting on either the Board or the selection committee.
2330 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Okay, thank you. Nice to see you again.
2331 MS WATSON: Thank you.
2332 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
2333 THE CHAIRPERSON: Vice‑Chair Arpin?
2334 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: My first question is for you, Mrs. Watson. At ‑‑ in your oral presentation, from time to time, you're using the present tense, and other times you're using the future tense. Where are you? Are you now operating, are you structured?
2335 MS WATSON: Well, I am because I'm really in the present and in the future. I'm glad you noticed that. You know, presently we have had ‑‑ we've formed partnerships, and one of our recent placement was ‑‑ we paid for ten Aboriginal youth to be trained through the National Screen Institute. It was a 16‑week program in which they learned various skills, and where they will continue to be mentored. So that's in the present. The present is also a partnership with Ryerson, which are taking on a couple of our, you know, worthy candidates. But as with any new organization ‑‑
2336 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: There's a lot to be done.
2337 MS WATSON: ‑‑ you have to be present and future, so I'm continuing the future speaking to people, developing programs, and looking forward, in the next few months, to really being able to get going. I mean, we have a terrific idea and a great need.
2338 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: So thank you.
Harvey, I don't know if you were here yesterday or ‑‑ or
surely you were here earlier this morning.
A discussion we had throughout the two days is that ‑‑
has to do with the market of
HARVEY: Thank you for your
question. To give you ‑‑
I do business in two provinces,
ARPIN: The ‑‑ some of
the applicants yesterday were saying that the big boxes are getting ‑‑
are moving now to
2343 MR. HARVEY: Well, there's room for both. We're a service‑driven industry.
2344 I like to think that I come from pretty humble beginnings, and as my grandfather and my father were tenacious, we'll survive. There's no problem there. That, in itself, is an indication that, again, people that have ‑‑ well, definitely more resources available to them than I do are seeing that market as viable, and so trade and commerce ‑‑ I mean, we're riding a peak on our graph, but ‑‑ and it's certainly going to level out, and it's certainly going to probably go down, and that's where all my business planning is done on a flat line, relative to how we do it in Saskatchewan, and I ‑‑ I don't see any problem in that market. It can't consistently maintain the pace of growth right now. The city can't even keep up to it. They'll tell you that.
2345 For me, the indication of larger companies coming in, the big boxes, the Costco is supposedly coming in the fall or early spring. All of those things are good indicators of a strong economic market, and I think that it can only be good.
2346 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Thank you very much, Mr. Harvey. Those are my questions.
2347 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Vice‑Chair.
2348 I have just a few more questions of Ms Watson. You are looking for another Board member. Is that ‑‑ are you looking for a First Nations person?
2349 MS WATSON: (Off mic...) I always forget to do that. Yes, we're very careful in looking ‑‑ we have Metis, we have Inuit, we're looking at First Nations.
2350 THE CHAIRPERSON: No, I'm talking about your Board Members.
2351 MS WATSON: Yes, and the sixth person will be ‑‑ that will become a fact in two weeks' time. The person has been approached and will be ‑‑ most probably be accepting.
2352 THE CHAIRPERSON: So you have Board members of Sandra McDonald ‑‑
2353 MS WATSON: Oh, no, no, that's the advisory committee. This is not the Board. The Board is made up exclusively of Aboriginal peoples.
2354 THE CHAIRPERSON: Oh, okay. So this is ‑‑
2355 MS WATSON: Yes, I'm sorry. The advisory committee is the greater ‑‑ they're the people that are going to give us all sorts of information, help us find funding ‑‑
2356 THE CHAIRPERSON: My mistake.
2357 MS WATSON: ‑‑ put us in the right direction ‑‑
2358 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
2359 MS WATSON: ‑‑ and be a great source of mentorship.
2360 THE CHAIRPERSON: Now, and do I understand in terms of the present, AMEF has already disbursed monies and has already sent ‑‑
2361 MS WATSON: Yes, yes.
2362 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ some worthy individuals to Ryerson and to NSI?
2363 MS WATSON: That's right.
2364 THE CHAIRPERSON: And so you've already been raising money, under a different name or ‑‑
2365 MS WATSON: No. The first funding has come from APTN. They've put a certain amount of money aside, and that ‑‑ that was our first because we wanted to ‑‑ at the same time as being recognized by CRA, as a non‑profit charitable organization, we wanted to be able to straightaway start our work.
2366 THE CHAIRPERSON: Oh, seed money? Okay.
2367 MS WATSON: Yes. So that's our seed money.
2368 THE CHAIRPERSON: And you want to raise $10 million?
2369 MS WATSON: Yes.
2370 THE CHAIRPERSON: And then you think you'll be self‑sustaining after that? Is that the concept?
2371 MS WATSON: Well, $10 million, you know, I look to the budget, is a good amount, but we will be continuing to look for funding from that and on. It doesn't mean that we will not start before we get our $10 million or that we will stop at $10 million.
2372 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, okay. And then you are also, is it setting up partners that will do the mentorship?
2373 MS WATSON: We're setting up partnerships where ‑‑ one of the things I've done in my former life as ‑‑ starting with the ‑‑ creating the national training program when I was with the Canadian Television Production Association, was look at the number of training programs that were in Canada, and you'd be horrified to find out that it's 200 a knot(ph) with a lot of people competing for the same amount of money and not knowing that, you know, some of the training is repeated a dozen odd times across the country, and, you know, one would serve but, anyways, that's ‑‑ that's an ongoing problem which many people are trying to resolve. So, therefore, one of the things I've done ‑‑ and I went back to my notes to see who was still in existence and have been getting in touch with the people I feel will best serve to deliver the programs that I'm looking at.
2374 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Harvey. Thank you, Ms Watson.
2375 Madam Secretary...?
2376 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
2377 This completes Phase III of the process, and we will now proceed to Phase IV in which applicants can reply to all interventions submitted on their application. Applicants are invited to appear in reverse order as listed on the agenda, and for the record, Newcap Inc. will not be appearing in this phase. Therefore, I would ask Mr. Pat Lough, on behalf of a corporation to be incorporated, to come forward if he wishes to appear in this phase.
‑‑‑ Off microphone / Sans microphone
2378 THE SECRETARY: All right. Mr. Lough has declined.
2379 Then I will call on Rogers Broadcasting Limited to come forward.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
2380 MR. MILES: Thank you.
2381 I will be uncharacteristically brief.
2382 Thank you so much on behalf of my team for an expedient hearing, but very fair, and through you, Madam Chair, to the rest of the panel and to the staff for all of the assistance during this hearing process.
2383 Thank you.
2384 THE CHAIRPERSON: The Vice‑Chair has a question for you.
2385 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: And for all of those who will come. We heard CIRPA making some comments regarding the radio review and expecting that ‑‑ or those who will be licensed will agree to follow the rules that the Commission may come up with out of the radio review. Do you have any comments to make to ‑‑ to what Mr. Mair said earlier today?
2386 MR. MILES: Yes, I do. I thought that he was unfair and uncharacteristically negative toward the applicants in the general process of funding for the Canadian talent thing. Look it, we have always looked forward to a relationship in the industry that we have established through the CAB and the hearing process and the radio regulation process, and that is a process that I think will continue, and we shouldn't try and destroy any of that kind of relationship that we've got going, and we do look forward to the material coming out of the radio review. We've all been part and parcel of the process.
2387 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: So you will be ‑‑ if say that the Commission, in its wisdom, choose the SOCAN approach and make it 51 percent Canadian content, you will adhere to that 51 percent Canadian content, even if today, at this hearing, your application wasn't predicated on that level?
2388 MR. MILES: Reluctantly, yes.
2389 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Thank you.
2390 THE SECRETARY: I would now call on the next applicant, Harvard Broadcasting Limited.
2391 MR. COWIE: Thank you very much, Madam Chair and Members of the Commission, Commission Staff. We just wish to thank you very much for a very efficient and helpful hearing for us.
2392 I hope I don't have to answer that question, Mr. Vice‑Chair, I thought Mr. Miles did a good job of that. But there are two sayings, one is that Lord Beaverbrook said, "The world is full of unrealized fears," and on the other hand, the others, "Que sera sera."
2393 So thank you very much.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
2394 THE SECRETARY: The next applicant to appear would be Vista Radio Limited.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
2395 MS MICALLEF: We don't have anything to add either, other than to thank the Commission for, again, allowing us to be ‑‑ to appear in front of you, and we have really nothing to add to either what Mr. Miles said or Mr. Cowie. They were both very articulate.
2396 Thank you.
2397 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
2398 We'd now call on numbered company 1182743 Alberta Limited to come forward, please.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
2399 MR. LARSEN: Again, just thank you, Madam Chair, Commissioners, and staff for the expedited hearing. We'd reiterate again no reply to the CIRPA intervention, but we'd like to just point out that we did a written response to the CIRPA written intervention, so thank you very much.
2400 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Mr. Larsen, your reply ‑‑
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
2401 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Yes, obviously the argument that Mr. Mair made this morning regarding the radio review was not in the CIRPA submission on one hand or was not ‑‑ surely not articulated the way he articulated it, and so your reply didn't cover that, so what are your views?
2402 MR. LARSEN: Right. As a new broadcaster, obviously, we would abide by the rules that are set by the CRTC. I would agree with what Mr. Miles said that we believe there's a fair structure in place, and whatever the rules will be, will be, and we will follow them.
2403 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Thank you.
2404 MR. LARSEN: Thank you.
2405 HEARING SECRETARY: The next applicant would be Radio CJVR Ltd., if they would come forward.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
2406 MR. SINGER: Thank you, Madam Chair, Commissioners, and CRTC staff.
2407 I would just like to comment on the interventions stated here this afternoon regarding our admission of 40 percent Cancon in our oral presentation. We apologize that our inclusion of that 40‑percent Cancon commitment in yesterday's presentation has caused concern to our fellow applicants and to the CRTC.
2408 As noted yesterday, we regret that the 40‑percent figure was not included in our Supplementary Brief filed earlier. In preparing that application, we felt it was a given that CJVR would commit to 40‑percent Cancon just as we do at our two FM stations in Melfort and Whitecourt. This level, I can assure you, and assure our applicants, our fellow applicants, was not based on what our competing applicants have placed in their applications. The level was based on what we, as a strong promoter of Canadian talent, commit to at our radio stations. The only reason we added that into our oral presentation yesterday, regrettably, was to parallel that level with our other significant Canadian talent development benefits that we are very, very proud of. We've been recognized for this commitment of promoting local Canadian talent, and when we put this application, we said, why would we stop here?
2409 Finally, I wish to say that CJVR is very respectful of the CRTC public process and the fair manner in which all applications are treated and assessed. It was never our intention to work around that process. Having said that, to be fair to our competing applicants, with the commission's indulgence, CJVR will go on record to state that a 35‑percent commitment to Cancon level should go on the record in our Medicine Hat application if this Commission so chooses; however, should with be monitored at any given time, given this licence, I can assure you, you will find that we are playing at least 40 percent Cancon.
2410 And in closing, I just wanted to say thank you for a very fair hearing. Thank you for pointing out our omission, and we will strive to keep that in mind as we move forward.
2411 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Singer. Any ‑‑
2412 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Any comments on Mr. Mair's presentation this morning ‑‑ this afternoon, I should say, regarding the radio review?
2413 MR. SINGER: I think my fellow applicants that have appeared before me pretty well summed up my feeling on that. Thank you for the opportunity.
2414 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Thank you.
2415 MR. SINGER: Great.
2416 THE CHAIRPERSON: Madam Secretary...?
2417 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair. Golden West Broadcasting Limited is the next applicant.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
2418 MR. HILDEBRAND: Thank you one last time. Thank you for running an expeditious process. I think you have gone through a lot of applications with great dispatch, and I think everyone in the room appreciates that.
2419 I have a small comment to make on the CIRPA presentation. Notwithstanding the compliment that he gave our organization for, you know, exceeding Cancon regulations, I find it presumptuous for an organization like that to come and try and run our business. I think until such a time as we are invited to participate in making their business plans, they should, you know, keep their distance.
2420 Thank you.
2421 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Any further comments regarding the radio review?
2422 MR. HILDEBRAND: Yeah, again, I think the Commission will be fair in their radio review, and, from our perspective, we'll be able to live with whatever the review comes down with.
2423 VICE‑CHAIR ARPIN: Thank you.
2424 MR. HILDEBRAND: Thanks.
2425 THE SECRETARY: I will now call on the last applicant, Lighthouse Broadcasting Limited. Do you wish to appear? I see they're not present.
2426 Madam Chair, this completes the list of applicants and therefore phase IV of this process.
2427 I do have two announcements to make on the record. We have been provided a document by Rogers Broadcasting, which is a breakdown of their music and spoken word as they had committed to do so. This document will be placed on the applicant's file on the public examination file, and it can be viewed in the exam room.
2428 We also have been provided with ‑‑ Radio CJVR Limited, there's a table showing their spoken word content, as they had committed to do so, and that also will be placed on their application filed.
2429 Madam Chair, this completes the consideration of item 1 to 9 on the agenda.
2430 Thank you.
2431 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Madam Secretary.
We will adjourn ‑‑ by my clock on my wall, it's 20 to 1. I think we will actually even go for
until ‑‑ what do we say, an hour and a half? 2:00.
So you can even take an afternoon nap.
We will be proceeding to volume 3 and
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1239 / Suspension à 1239
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1400 / Reprise à 1400
2433 THE CHAIRPERSON: Madam Secretary...?
2434 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
are now ready to proceed with the applications from the
2436 Appearing for the applicant is Mr. Rob Steele, who will introduce his colleagues. Mr. Steele, you'll have 20 minutes for your presentation.
2437 Go ahead.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
2438 MR. STEELE: Thank you.
good afternoon, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, the Commission
Staff. I'm Rob Steele, the President and
Chief Executive Officer of Newcap Radio, and before we begin our presentation,
I'd like to reintroduce our team. Seated
in the front row to my immediate right is David Murray, Chief Operating Officer
for Newcap Radio, beside Dave is Glenda Spenrath, assisted GM of Newcap's
Alberta Radio Group East, based in
is the second of our three appearances, and this application represents our
first proposal to bring our brand of radio to
SPENRATH: As we did our research on
terms of income, there's continued growth in household incomes, a primary
indicator that consumers have the money to spend on goods and services. And, of course, this means a growth in retail
sales. FP Markets projects that income
in the city will increase by nine percent from 2006 to 2008 and by 22 percent
by 2011. In fact,
terms of housing starts, Stats Canada reports that
2445 A good indicator of the economic activity in the province is the government's announcement last Friday that they were able to cut the provincial sales tax by two percent. The government indicated that revenues from the energy sector enabled them to maintain their economic position while cutting the sales tax.
2446 I would like, now, to ask Brad Boechler to speak about what this means for retail sales and radio revenues.
BOECHLER: Thanks, Glenda. The economy in
Markets projects retail sales to grow in
we do not have access to the actual financial returns for this market as there
are only two private radio broadcasters, we can look at the trends in the
province and expect that
2451 According to the Commission's radio financial summary for 2005, radio revenues had an average annual growth rate of nine percent between 2001 and 2005. Properly stimulated, radio revenues will continue to increase at the same rate as retail sales, and, as you know, new radio entrance into a market normally caused radio revenues to increase even more rapidly.
we consider only commercial radio stations, there is one radio station for
every 20,000 people in
2454 Saint John, New Brunswick, a city whose population is 110,000, has six commercial radio stations of which five are on the FM band, or one for every 18,000 people.
my meetings with
2459 Now, to speak to you about our choice of formats, here is Mark Maheu.
MAHEU: Thanks, Brad. Newcap Radio conducted a complete and
comprehensive research study of the
findings showed that the preferred format option for
2462 Next, we looked at the percentage of format void, which is simply the percentage of people who say they would listen often to a format but cannot associate any radio station in the city with it. The percentage of format void indicates how big an opportunity there is for a new format.
since CRTC regulations do not allow for a true oldies format because it is
predominantly hit songs from the '60s and '70s, Newcap proposes an oldies‑based
classic hits format for
2465 45 percent of the music will be the great oldies hits from the mid‑'60s through the '70s from artists like The Supremes, The Four Tops, CCR, the Beach Boys, The Guess Who, and Bachman‑Turner Overdrive.
2466 55 percent of the station sound will draw from the traditional classic hits repertoire from the '80s and '90s and now from artists like Bryan Adams, Phil Collins, Madonna, and John Mellencamp.
2467 Now, according to the research, the demographic this format would appeal to is adults 35 to 64 with real strength with adults 45 to 64. This strong, positive interest skews slightly to men at 55 percent, women at 45 percent.
2468 Newcap is also proposing to create and broadcast several fun, informative, and interesting music features to compliment the music on the radio station.
2469 Week nights at seven, we will feature That '70s Show featuring music from artists like Abba, Gordon Lightfoot, Joni Mitchell, The Bee Gees, Chicago, all the artists that defined a decade.
2470 Sundays at noon, we'll put the emphasis on The Roots of Rock'n'Roll. The show will pay homage to the music that created the rock genre, with blues, rock'n'roll, and vintage rock classics from artists as diverse as BB King, Elvis Presley, Hank Williams, Elmore James, and John Mayall.
2471 And Sunday nights at six, we'll air The Classic Album Story. Each week, we'll tell the story of one of the best classic albums from the past 40 years, playing tracks, and discussing the albums with listeners and guests.
know from our experience that the oldies‑based and classic hits listeners
love the music of the past, but they live in the here and now. Adults 35‑64 also have an expectation
of credible, frequent news and information from radio. As part of our proposal for
2473 MS STEVENSON: Thanks, Mark. As we noted in our previous presentation and as you will hear in our current presentation, we believe there is a need for an even greater emphasis on local news and information in an era where niche formats, specializing in almost everything you can imagine, are available to all of us.
Newcap, we are proud of the way we make every one of our stations a local
station. We don't do it the same way in
every place, rather we tailor our approach to what the particular circumstances
of the community are. So, for example,
2476 With the increase in our news commitments in our letter of August 14th, we have also increased the number of news staff to four full‑time and one part‑time.
2477 The audience for this station will start at 35 years of age with a real core being in the 45‑plus age group, and we intend to reach out to them with spoken word features that will address their needs. Clearly, investments and health become more important as we mature. We want to know that we will have enough money to indulge our tastes and good enough health to enjoy the possibilities open to us, to travel, to help our children and their children, and to indulge in the fine things in life.
2478 In addition to our five hours and 45 minutes of news, we will broadcast a number of program features.
is Inside Regina. Three times a day, we
will profile someone who is making a difference in
2480 Live Tonight will focus on arts and entertainment activities around the city with plays, gallery openings, concerts, and other events. We won't merely billboard these events, but interview those involved in presenting them.
program is Your Town. It will bring a
focus to the civic events that are going on to make
the provincial capital,
2485 And now to speak about Canadian talent development and to sum up, here is Mark Maheu.
MAHEU: We propose to spend just over
$1.5 million on Canadian talent development in
year, we will devote $215,000 to three initiatives. Two of the beneficiaries will be
national organization will be the Radio Starmaker Fund. The Commission is quite familiar with the
Starmaker Fund, which resulted from a Commission request that the industry
develop a fund that would focus on marketing and promotion of emerging Canadian
artists. We would request that the fund
direct our annual $90,000 contribution to
2489 Our first local initiative is to grant to the University of Regina Department of Music, $40,000 each year. Now, half of that is going to be directed to scholarships for music students, while the remaining funds will be used to support music festivals and competitions. We hope to help the music community develop by supporting new, young artists as they learn their trade and have an opportunity to perform before critical, but supportive audiences.
second of our
2491 Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, we passionately believe that for our industry to continue to flourish, we have to continue to provide high quality and diverse radio services to Canadians. We need more radio with more local services providing a wide range of programming, capitalizing on the over‑the‑air radio's greatest strength, its local connection. New services expand listening, provide choice in music and editorial content and grow radio's overall share of the advertising pie.
believe that in
2493 Harvard and Rawlco radio provide excellent radio service to this city, no question about it. Our argument is not based upon making up for deficiencies in their service, but in a world where listeners have many alternative sources for music, listeners are not willing to settle for their second choice when it comes to a local radio station. What they want is great local radio that engages them, speaks to their tastes, and informs them about what's going on, whether it's around the corner or around the world. New radio choices will also cause the existing broadcasters to hone their focus by providing and superserving their core audiences while a new radio station would superserve a new constituency.
2494 If the market can support it, and we believe it can, the outcome is more choice for the listener, additional editorial voices, more targeted audiences for advertisers, and more money for Canadian talent development. It's a win for everyone.
believe that we have provided a new radio station proposal that will be a hit
2496 Thank you very much for your time and attention. We'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.
2497 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
2498 Commissioner Pennefather...?
2499 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
2500 Good afternoon. I'm going to go through some questions on programming, and we'll start this time with the spoken word. Thank you for your chart, again, which this time has hours and minutes, I noticed, so we're confused some more ‑‑
2501 MR. MAHEU: We're quick learners.
2502 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you. And I was all set to do to the other and show off.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
2503 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: In your presentation, you actually are on my very first question. Your presentation on page 10, Ms Stevenson, said you will increase the number of news staff considering the fact that this ‑‑ the 81 news packages now, and are five hours and 45 minutes is an increase. You are then increasing the number of news staff to four full‑time and one part‑time; is that correct?
2504 MR. MAHEU: That is correct, 4.5, four and a half.
2505 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: It was originally two journalist announcers and one news director ‑‑
2506 MR. MAHEU: Right.
2507 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: ‑‑ so my question is, with this increase in expenses, would you submit a revised 4.1 financial summary to reflect that change? Would that not cause a change? I know you submitted a revised in terms of CTD, but would it not require a revised 4.1 financial statement?
2508 MR. MAHEU: It probably does need to be revised, but it's not a material revision, is it, Dave?
2509 MR. MURRAY: No, actually the salaries in programming in 4.1 were actually already there ‑‑
2510 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Okay.
2511 MR. MURRAY: ‑‑ it's just we hadn't had the correct number in the Brief.
2512 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you.
2513 We discussed previously the rationale behind the increase in news packages in what we outline as scheduled news here versus non‑news. I don't mean versus in a bad sense, but just as a different ‑‑ our 75 percent local content is in your news packages. Will this cover only the pure news portion or does it also refer to surveillance material, sports, weather, and news combined, the 75 percent local content?
2514 MR. MAHEU: Madam Commissioner, if I understand what you're saying, you're asking if the 75 percent local content applies to just the news, weather, and sports, the scheduled portion?
2515 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: That's correct.
2516 MR. MAHEU: Yes, the same as the previous application where, again, 75 percent on average. If you took it out over the course of a week or whatever then you find that 75 percent of the content in those scheduled newscasts would be ‑‑ would be local.
2517 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: 75 percent of the 5.45?
2518 MR. MAHEU: Correct.
2519 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: And what about the non‑news, would it also be 75 percent local?
2520 MR. MAHEU: It actually might be a little higher than that because those non‑news spoken word items, whether it's some of the features that we plan to run or the spoken word from our on‑air personalities, virtually, all of that would be what we would consider local.
2521 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Does the scheduled news, five hours, 45 minutes, include ‑‑ yes, it does, I'm answering my own question, the sports and the weather and so on are all there?
2522 MR. MAHEU: Yes, it does.
2523 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Now, one other point that we discussed, I believe, previously as well, was many newscasts are often repeated with only minor adjustments in content and delivery to provide updates and sustain audience interests. By increasing your weekly newscasts, do you envision an increase in original content or an increase in repetition of the same content?
MAHEU: It's a good question. We kind of talked about that a little bit as
it related to our
2525 MS STEVENSON: All right, thank you very much.
2526 With our newscasts, we are always trying to keep things fresh. We strive not to have the same newscast or the same content from, say, 7:30 a.m. to 8 a.m. because, frankly, that just gets boring to listeners. We'll touch on the top news stories, but beyond that, we want to offer different local stories in different newscasts. And, generally, we'll ‑‑ we almost day part it. If we have a story that's running in the morning run, say, from 5:30 to nine, well, you're not going to hear that story throughout the rest of the day. So we're always striving to have different and new local stories and to really mix things up so it's not the same newscast over and over again.
2527 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: We also were left a little wanting last time in a discussion on your point that you increased the news packages, which is the scheduled news list, 5.45 hours, in relation to changing times and to the different sources of entertainment and information that the public now has, and we asked why you wouldn't, then, increase the non‑news component. Can you talk about that a little bit? Why in increasing the news and information or spoken word you increased the scheduled news and not the non‑news, the ‑‑ for example, the community update and the public affairs reports. In terms of your overall approach to ‑‑ I think you mentioned it that conventional terrestrial radio needs to look at things a little differently now. Can you speak to that point?
2528 MR. MAHEU: Sure. When we put our proposal together and even as it is being presented to you here today, a couple of things. The proposals that we're putting forth on the regularly scheduled news along with the non‑scheduled spoken word, we look at these as kind of a floor as minimums that we're certainly prepared to commit to and do. The marketplace will dictate, in many cases, what needs to be done to be successful. We see this as kind of a framework for the beginning of our success in building something in the marketplace. In a number of features in the Inside Regina reports and Live Tonight in Your Town, when we originally put our proposal together in a competitive environment like Regina, with six other competing radio stations, we felt that that would be enough to get started at least to be able to ‑‑ begin to position ourselves in the community of doing things a little bit differently and having content on the air that could generate an audience and hence, a listenership. So we look at them as really minimum amounts going forward that is going to be necessary, but the marketplace and the competitive environment will also dictate how much of that we're ‑‑ how much more we're going to need to do, if we're going to need to do more, to be successful.
2529 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Will the same ‑‑ I believe now we're at the news staff, four full‑time, one part‑time. Will the same news staff be working on the scheduled news as the non‑news component?
2530 MR. MAHEU: Sue...?
2531 MS STEVENSON: For the most part. The news people will handle some of these specialty programs as well, but I have talked about the mobile studio, and that's where a programming end could come in and help. A mobile studio, it's more than just a ‑‑ say, a community cruiser. We have dedicated broadcast systems in the cruisers that are able to go out into the community and interview people and send that realtime back to the stations. So that's one component that would lap over. And the ‑‑ for instance, the Live Tonight, that would be produced by a news team. Your Town and the community events, that would be something that would be done in concert with programming. So it's kind of a hybrid situation.
2532 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: We ‑‑ also ‑‑ here do you also have the listener poll as part of your proposal?
2533 MS STEVENSON: That would be included, generally, right in the newscasts, so it would be, you know, part of that local content during the newscasts.
PENNEFATHER: And could you tell me ‑‑
tell us a little bit more about it, how it would work? We called it the Hat Line in
2535 MS STEVENSON: That's right.
2536 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: My colleague made sure I understood that, and ‑‑ but what it specifically ‑‑ we're talking about a different market now.
2537 MS STEVENSON: Right.
2538 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Could you tell me if it's exactly the same or is there some different approach?
2539 MS STEVENSON: It would, basically, be the same. Of course, the name wouldn't be the same, but basically, you know, we would ask our listeners to call in on topics of the day that are of interest to the community. One day it might be a very serious topic, the next it could be a little more light, but it's ‑‑ as I mentioned yesterday, it's a way to engage our listeners and take the pulse of the community.
2540 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: And this would become part of programming?
2541 MS STEVENSON: It could be. You know, we would initiate it in the news, but it's definitely a spillover topic that the announcers could also talk about.
2542 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: But it isn't the listeners being on air themselves?
2543 MS STEVENSON: We would have listeners on air. We would have a line to take their comments, and we would take those comments and put them on air.
2544 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: And who would be responsible for, if you will, monitoring the comments for deciding what goes on air?
2545 MS STEVENSON: Well, that would ‑‑ that would have to be the news team. Of course, the news director is not there all the time, so it would be the news team who is doing that and making sure nothing inappropriate gets on the air.
2546 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: And I'm looking at, now, the August 14th deficiency response, you indicated here that nearly a hundred percent of your programming will be locally produced, with the exception of some syndicated programming. Could you tell us what parts of your proposed feature programming would be syndicated, including the types of programming and when they would be presented.
2547 MR. MAHEU: It's our goal to have the radio station be as local and as live as possible. And that's why we committed to the amount of live programming that we have. We wanted to give you a sense of the type of music programming that we would be putting on the radio station, and sometimes there are syndicated programs that become available for this type of format that would be appropriate for the radio station to run. We have no plan at this moment on exactly what syndicated features we are going to run, but we did want to give you a sense that from time to time, we're going to run some of that programming. It's not going to be extensive, and it wouldn't be that often, but there are some great documentary syndicated programs out there, especially for oldies and oldies‑based programming. There are a number of specials on bands like the Beatles, the history of rock'n'roll and things like that that are continuing instalment documentary type of programs that run an hour or two at a time and could run for, you know, a number of weeks. On an average week ‑‑ over the course of a year on an average week, if we ran an hour and a half of syndicated programming on average a week, that would probably be a lot. We don't anticipate making use of much of that type of programming, other than for special events. There might be some things around Christmas or whatever that we would use some syndicated programming, but not very much at all.
2548 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: So could you give us a sense of what the percentage would be live programming?
2549 MR. MAHEU: Our proposal calls for live programming during the 6 a.m. until midnight portion of the day, Monday through Sunday. We're going to be live for those 18 hours each day, either a live announcer on the air or preproduced programming that's created on‑site by the station and broadcast at that time, and there will always be somebody in the radio station working, which we feel is important, and we're able to provide some sort of level of service and surveillance even during prerecorded programs that might have been put together by the station for broadcast at another time. So live, 6 a.m. to midnight, Monday to Sunday.
2550 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Let's move on to format, and I think I noted a comment in your presentation today. Just to clarify, according to the research, you say here, the demographic for this format is adults 35 to 64 with the strength at 45 to 64, skewing 55‑percent men, women, 45 percent. So what would be the median age of your core demographic?
2551 MR. MAHEU: The median age is 48.
2552 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: 48? Getting close ‑‑
2553 MR. MAHEU: I just entered into the target demo, but I'm not quite at the median age yet, so I'm getting close.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
2554 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: All right. Looking at it in terms of the content, it's broad‑based classics format. If I go through this, it's an "oldies‑based classic hits format," quote unquote now. Can you describe to us what a typical day would sound like and give us a sense of how much is '60s, '70s, how much is '80s, '90s because at one point, I think we did describe primarily '80s and the '70s in your Supplementary Brief. So I'm not quite sure how it will work out through the day.
2555 MR. MAHEU: Sure.
2556 Well, to give you an overall sense of what the radio station would sound like during the course of an average day, this is the type of format that is very mainstream, popular broad‑based. There's no day parting involved or anything like that. It's a the same music on a 24/7 basis.
2557 And really what this format does is it takes the very best or the essence of the oldies format ‑‑ and the oldies format is rooted firmly in songs from the mid‑'60s through the late‑'70s, and it combines it with the classic hits sound from the '70s, the '80s, and the '90s.
2558 And what you end up with is a ‑‑ very much an up tempo, fun, pop‑music‑based, gold‑based format. When we're talking about music from the '60s and '70s, we're really talking about the great top 40 hits that people who are 45 to 64 grew up with, the Mammas and the Pappas, Diana Ross and The Supremes, the Temptations, The Guess Who, bands like that, and then moving into the '70s, artists like Three Dog Night and Steppenwolf and CCR and Rod Stewart, Doobie Brothers, those types of acts, really form the heart of oldies from the mid‑'60s through the mid‑'70s.
2559 But because of the way the regulations are with hit versus non‑hit on FM, it is impossible to do a format at this point in time that would be devoted just to music from the '60s and the '70s because they are ‑‑ it's all hit music that really drives this format.
2560 So we've had to modify it somewhat. If the rules changed tomorrow, for instance, and the hit/non‑hit regulation went away, the research shows pretty clearly it would be an oldies station, be '60s and '70s. And if after the radio review came out and that's what happened, then this would be a '60s and '70s radio station for the most part because that's what the folks really want. That's where the heart and strength of it is.
2561 To comply with the regulations, we brought in over 50 percent of the music coming post‑1980, and to work with music from the late ‑‑ mid to late‑'60s and the '70s, that music from the '80s and '90s is going to be very much in the mainstream pop side of classic hits, rather than the rock side of classic hits. So the radio station would sound very much like a mainstream popular music formatted radio station. The classic hits part of it, which will be about 55 percent of the radio station, will be firmly from that pop‑based classic hits genre, rather than the rock side.
might recall we were talking yesterday about
2563 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Considering that, then, let me push that a little bit further and ask you why that wouldn't be the same as what is offered in the market today in terms of hot AC, AC, classic rock, AOR rock, how do you distinguish your proposal from what is currently available?
2564 MR. MAHEU: We've taken a look at what is available in the marketplace, and it's an interesting market because much of the radio, demographically targeting, tends to kind of be right ‑‑ right around that middle. Everybody is kind of converging in around the center of the popular music genres. When you listen to the radio stations in the market today and what they're programming, there's nobody in the market today programming predominantly or a good portion of their music from the '60s and '70s in the pop genre. The only radio station that comes even close from percentage terms would be JACKfm. And, well, we've done BDS analysis of every radio station in the market. We've taken a look at what they're playing, what year it comes from, and kind of give us a sense because your ears tell you one thing, and then the playlists tell you another. And the only one that's close is JACK with about 30 ‑‑ and this was an audit that was done by BDC the week of October 18th through the 24th, so it's very recent. It's last week. And 36 percent of their music comes from the '60s and the '70s. Actually, 7.3 percent from the '60s, 28.8 percent from the '70s, 36.9 percent from the '80s, 13.6 from the '90s, and 2000 until today is 13.6 percent. Those are a lot of numbers, but in terms of the era of the music, that's one thing, but the sound of the music is quite different. And it's interesting with the JACK format here in Regina, when you think of the JACK format, you immediately think classic hits because Rogers Radio has pioneered that format, and they've licensed the name throughout Canada and the United States. I don't know what the arrangement is with Rawlco, but they're using the name JACK. But it ‑‑ unlike in other marketplaces when you listen to a JACKfm radio station, it's classic hits. Here, it's very much based on classic rock or rock, and it's even marketed that way when you look at the radio station on television. So when we did the DDS monitor, we wanted to make sure that it ‑‑ you know, it was what it was, and we were right, it's a rock station for sure, it's not classic hits, but it's the only radio station in the market that comes close to playing that amount of music from the '60s and '70s. And how we're different is we're very much a popular music, top 40 oldies, '60s and '70s, where they're much more rock‑based.
2565 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Okay. So the difference as opposed to yesterday, where we used classic hits as well as a term, is that it's more rock‑based here, and yours ‑‑ classic hits would be more pop‑based?
2566 MR. MAHEU: Absolutely, yes.
2567 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: And can you see a distinction between what you're proposing and other applicants in this market that are proposing a similar format?
2568 MR. MAHEU: I think we're the only one that is really proposing the level of music from the '60s and the '70s, and I think that's what makes us different. It's what changes the targeting of the radio station slightly older as well. I also think our proposal, for the amount of spoken word in the news commitment that we're going to do on the radio station differentiates us as well. There is certainly a number of worthy applications. We just felt through the research that we did and the investigation we did in the market, and we ‑‑ we came up with this format, and I'm glad we tested this wide because everybody does research a different way, and there's always ways to have fun with numbers. But way we approach it is when we do research, we try to talk to as wide an audience as we possibly can so we don't leave very many people out. So our research was done with people between 18 and 64, so a very large group of people. We didn't just talk to 25 to 54s or older groups or younger groups, we talked to a representative why demographic 18 to 64 years‑old, and then we asked about nine different formats. We didn't ask about two or three that, you know, we kind of wish we could maybe do. We asked about country, we asked about AC, rock, pop, top 40, we did all those. And this is what came back that the marketplace felt that was missing, and that there was a significant enough interest here that you could actually build a business around it and that's the reason we came to you with this proposal because it's the one that listeners have told us, through the research, that they like the most and feel is needed the most in the marketplace. And when we look at the other stations in the market and what they're programming, the good news is that this format really doesn't impede or infringe on anybody's franchise in the market. Any time a new station comes on, there's always going to be competition and a little bit of share moving around, but this radio station format proposal does not target any one particular station in the market. So it could find its way in and maybe take a little bit of share from everybody and end up having a pretty good audience.
2569 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you.
move to Canadian talent development. And
I'm looking at the deficiency response of September 30th where there's a
considerable discussion of the CTD contributions, as well as the earlier August
14th deficiency where there have been some changes in your proposal. So I'd like to just clarify some aspects of
this. You indicated that the
your other letter of August 14th, you indicated that funding to the
2572 MR. MAHEU: I'm going to have, if I may, Brad Boechler talk to you a little bit about how that money is going to be split and the reason why. We've had some excellent conversations with the folks at the university and found out a little bit more about what their needs are, and that's kind of driving what we're proposing and what we want to do.
2573 Brad, would you be kind enough to fill her in?
2574 MR. BOECHLER: Thank you, Mark.
few weeks ago ‑‑ actually, more than a few weeks ago, I had a
few very good conversations with Dr. Lynn Cavanagh, who is the head of the
University of Regina Department of Music.
And though it looks like a beautiful facility here, and they do have a
lot of very modern facilities at the university for arts and music, one of the
things, as in most educational higher level institutions in
of the things that ‑‑ and she states it quite clearly in her
letter of October 5th, supporting our ‑‑ her letter of
intervention supporting our application, so I won't have to go through it in
great detail, but there are a couple of highlights that I'd like to point out,
if I may, and the one is a financial support of the students. One of the things ‑‑ if we
touch on festivals first, there is a festival currently in
2577 Another expenditure, which is also critical to them is in order to give the music festival any kind of credibility is that you need some world class adjudicators, and that's expensive because they normally come in from outside the city. The other thing in consideration with the scholarship portion to the university is ‑‑ and, again, I quote because she says it better than I could paraphrase it, if I may. She says, "It's a small wonder that a substantial number of our most talented, young musicians are attracted to music departments in other parts of Canada in the U.S., the ones that offer big scholarships to entering students in the amounts far above that of what we have in our disposal in our own department of music."
PENNEFATHER: One of the questions which
we ask is, while considering what you just described, and I gather you've had
considerable discussions with the
2579 MR. BOECHLER: In discussion with Dr. Cavanagh, she understands some of our requirements from a CDT point of view. Also, there are ‑‑ at the University of Regina, there are strict guidelines, if you will, on how scholarships can be awarded ‑‑ can be awarded, and she assured me that we would work with their scholarship people at that time to ensure that both are met.
2580 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Turning now to another component of your proposed CTD, which I'm looking at the August 14th, 85,000 to Saskatchewan Recording Industry Association, correct?
2581 MR. MAHEU: That is correct, yes.
2582 MR. BOECHLER: Yes.
2583 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: And we asked you, I think, for further information on that particular ‑‑ on that particular project, and you gave us a breakdown on page 5 of the September 30th, and I believe that that breakdown would have changed with the total amount changing. You increased this initiative by $15,000 per year to a total of 85,000 per broadcast year. Can you provide us with a revised budget incorporating the $15,000‑a‑year increase?
2584 MR. MAHEU: I have it right here. We'd be happy to.
2585 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you.
2586 And in that breakdown, you mention ‑‑ I think it's a typo, "Marketing and branding of the east coast artists." Did you mean ‑‑
2587 MR. MAHEU: I hope it's a typo. Yes, it is, yes.
2588 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: You've earmarked in this breakdown, and I assume the revised one as well, certain funds to administration costs. Can you indicate how such an allocation would fall under eligible, direct CTD contributions? I think there are two points ‑‑ there's administration costs of of 3,500 in the established artists program, and there's administration costs 2,300 in the emerging artists program, and a programming administrative costs.
2589 MR. MAHEU: Those numbers have changed, by the way, in the revised budget. The administrative costs on the established artist program is now $4,500, and the administrative costs on the emerging artists program is estimated to be $3,100 each year. I'm not exactly sure what ‑‑ what the administrative fees are made up of, but I can certainly find out and document it with ‑‑ when we supply this budget to you, the revised budget, we can itemize what we expect the administrative cost to be composed of, if that would be okay?
2590 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: We would appreciate that if you could give us some detail on each of the administrative components, and, at the same time, if you could also describe for us the costs that are earmarked to funding artist representatives, such as publicist and managers. As well, they may be integral to the program as you've described it, but we have to be sure that they really are monies going to artists in terms of CTD ‑‑
2591 MR. MAHEU: Certainly or to the direct benefit of the artist, and we'll do our homework on that and provide you the appropriate documentation that supports these amounts, and we'll do that rather quickly.
2592 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Just a comment too. I was interested in your choices for the Canadian talent development area, and considering the presence in ‑‑ in this part of the world of something like the First Nations University of Canada, I was curious to know why you had not thought of a contribution to talent development in that area?
2593 MR. MAHEU: I do believe that in our discussions with the university, you know, First Nations People are certainly part of their program, and they're endeavouring to make it an even bigger part of their program.
2594 Brad, I'm going to let you maybe chip in on that a little bit ‑‑
2595 MR. BOECHLER: Sure.
2596 MR. MAHEU: ‑‑ because that is certainly part of the essence of what we're trying to do with this money to the university.
BOECHLER: In both with the
2598 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you.
on CTD. On your comments today regarding
the Starmaker Fund, you say, "We will request that the fund direct our
annual 90,000 contribution to
2600 MR. MAHEU: Our agreement with Starmaker is similar to previous proposals to the extent which they can, and you requested us to provide a letter as to the ‑‑ to make sure that that was on the record, and we've asked them to supply us with that in writing as well for this application and the third application you'll be hearing from us. So we'll be providing that to the commission within the weeks timeframe that we promised the original one. All three letters will be in your hands.
2601 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you.
2602 We'll move on now to some questions regarding the market and your revenue projections. One of the points we wanted to ask you to comment on was ‑‑ I'm sure you're aware of the letter from Mr. Patrick Grierson of the Canadian Broadcast Sales, CBS, contained in the intervention from Rawlco, and the comment here is the ‑‑ as he puts it, the decline in national sales revenues due to the inelastic advertising budgets, funding, significant increase, and demand in price in major markets. Would you care to comment on this as it pertains to this market?
MAHEU: I think there is a lot of truth
to what Mr. Grierson is saying, and that's the reason he said it.
BOECHLER: Sure. As you may notice in our budget projections
for the first few years, in
2605 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Just if we could keep on this discussion, I think it would be very helpful. As you know, an important part of our evaluation of new radio applications is determining the impact on existing stations and asking if any should be licensed in a market without resulting undue impact on the existing stations. Now, in the year ending August 31st, 2005, we note the profitability of the Regina/Saskatchewan combined radio market was below the national average for English‑language commercial radio. Nevertheless, here we are with a number of applications. So it would be helpful if you could tell us the factors you took into consideration in determining that the Regina/Saskatoon market was capable of supporting new stations at this time. How ‑‑ I notice, for example, in your presentation today you present us with an analysis of, I think it's four markets, and numbers of people required to support a station that you're looking at, some indicators there, so perhaps you could also expand on that as an indicator.
MAHEU: Sure. The ‑‑ in our opening
remarks when we were talking about those different markets, it was really to
just illustrate markets of similar or smaller size, their capacity, to handle
the amount of radio they have. And we
were kind of using that to support our premise that Regina is a market that
would be large enough to support additional radio services because there are a
number of centers across Canada that are smaller than Regina that have just as
much radio and, in some cases, more.
It's been, I think, almost 25 years now since a new radio station has
gone on in
2607 There's always ‑‑ and we know this from our experience because we do operate in a number of markets, small, medium, and large. There is always a certain amount of trepidation as an incumbent broadcaster when new competition is coming in, especially when it's been a marketplace that is very comfortable and has been giving you pretty decent returns for quite a while.
the case of Regina, the economy here is ‑‑ is not Alberta,
there's no question about that, and I don't think anybody is going to argue
that it's ‑‑ this is like Calgary or Edmonton or even Medicine
Hat, but the economy here is pretty good, and things are continuing to pick up,
and people in Regina are optimistic about the future. When we did radio research in the market, we
also found out there is a hole in market for a new service that people would
listen to that would generate enough listening share to actually make a
business. So we know that there's ‑‑
from a listeners' side, there's a need and a want for additional service. The question really comes down to, can the
market and the economy in this area support additional services, and when you
look at the way the market is carved up, there are two operators, both have
consolidated operations. They have three
stations each, and they enjoy the economies of scale that go with operating
three. The proposal we put forth is
rather modest in terms of our revenue needs and our goals over the first seven
years. As a matter of fact, we lose a
significant amount of money for the first seven years if we just execute the
business plan the way it is. But the
reason for it is, that we have always entered marketplaces with the long‑term
view in mind. We know we're not going to
get rich in
2609 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: I think that takes my last question away from me because I was going to go back to a very precise point, and that is that you have said that your format ‑‑ based on your format that your advertising revenues in year one, 35 percent would come from existing stations. So it is your view that there is potential for new advertising, going back to our discussion on the retail market?
2610 MR. MAHEU: Absolutely, and, Brad, if you could just maybe interject on that.
2611 MR. BOECHLER: Sure. Thanks, Mark.
2612 If we take from this day forward, by the time the decision comes down on who may be fortunate enough to come into Regina, hopefully it's us, and following FP Market's research of the market growing eight percent, and then by 23 percent by next year, within the next two years, by 2008, eight percent, we would probably be on the air some time in 2008. So by that time, the market has already expanded. Our estimate being by about another million dollars. So if you can take into consideration a million dollars and our first year budget ‑‑ for our first year target is 1.3 million, in which would be less than ten percent what we believe of the radio advertising available in the market. And just following the retail sales forward, if you take that the market will naturally expand by a million dollars, we'll take 35 percent, so call it around 350,000, and let's say for sake of argument we take it equally from Harvard and from Rawlco, that's approximately, what, 150, $160,000 per operation? So as ‑‑ by the time the licence gets on, by the time the market naturally expands and grows, our effect on the two operators currently will be minimal at best.
2613 COMMISSIONER PENNEFATHER: Thank you. Thank you very much.
2614 Those are my questions, Madam Chair.
2615 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Is it Mr. Boechler?
2616 MR. BOECHLER: Yes, Madam Commissioner.
CHAIRPERSON: Good thing you left
2618 MR. BOECHLER: Yes, there is.
CHAIRPERSON: Okay. And what about
2620 MR. BOECHLER: I don't believe so.
2621 MR. MAHEU: No.
2622 THE CHAIRPERSON: Is that a totally English market?
2623 MR. MAHEU: English.
CHAIRPERSON: Okay. And my heart did palpitate, Mr. Maheu, when
we got into the
2625 MR. MAHEU: What I meant when I said prerecorded were if we were running ‑‑ it was, I think, in reference to some of those syndicated programs that from time to time we might run on the radio station. We consider that to be prerecorded, so it's going to run. We're not going to do any voice tracking on the radio station between six in the morning and midnight. It's going to be live or live to air. In other words, if the programming that is on the air is being run on a prerecorded basis because we're running the Beatles documentary called Day in a Life or whatever, there's still going to be somebody in the studio that when the commercial breaks come on, they're going to be able to tell you about the weather forecast and what's going on around town and then back to the show. So we're going to have somebody on the air, in the studio on a 6 a.m. to midnight, seven‑day‑a‑week basis, no voice tracking.
2626 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. So just so it's on the record so that it ‑‑ prerecorded means syndicated programming?
2627 MR. MAHEU: Yeah, it could be programming that was created inside the radio station as well. You know, the morning team if they're doing ‑‑ if we develop a program where the morning team is doing some sort of Saturday night oldies show that runs for a couple of hours and might have them introducing songs and doing bits from the morning show throughout the week, that might run on a prerecorded basis on Saturday night at 9:00, but there's still somebody in the studio providing live service, live surveillance, between commercial breaks when that program is running, but it's station‑produced programming for the most part.
CHAIRPERSON: Okay, thank you. And now I have remembered. It is your time to tell us why we should
licence you in the pearl of the prairies,
2629 MR. MAHEU: We know you have many people that want to come up here and take the valuable time, so we won't take very long.
you for the opportunity to present ‑‑ for us to be able to
present our idea for a new radio station in
operators here are good operators.
Rawlco and Harvard are responsible, they're professional, and they do an
excellent job. Having said that, we do
believe that listeners in
2632 This is a new market for us in a new province. We're not doing business here right now, and we would very much like the opportunity to do so. And if we're awarded the licence we'll do it in the usual Newcap manner in a forthright and professional way. And thank you for your time and attention, and we hope we have that opportunity.
2633 Thank you again.
2634 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
2635 I hate to say we'll take five minutes. Does anybody wish to or ‑‑ no? Then we will simply be silent until the next applicant is seated.
2636 Madam Secretary...?
2637 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
2638 I would now call on the next applicant, Standard Radio Inc. to come forward to the presentation table.
will now proceed with item 11 on the agenda, which is an application by
Standard Radio Inc. for a licence to operate an English‑language
commercial FM radio programming undertaking in
2640 THE CHAIRPERSON: I think, Madam Secretary, we have to wait for Mrs. Taylor and I think a few more other panelists. Maybe we should take ten minutes. Like, is Ms Taylor supposed to be with you?
2641 MS MITCHELL: She is. She's just taking a quick break for the washroom. She'll be back in one moment.
2642 THE CHAIRPERSON: In one moment? Okay, we'll wait.
SECRETARY: Okay. We'll start this again. Okay.
We'll start this again. We're
going to proceed with item 11 on the agenda, which is an application by Standard
Radio Inc. for a licence to operate an English‑language commercial FM
radio programming undertaking in
2644 Appearing for the applicant is Ms Sharon Taylor who will introduce her colleagues. You will then have 20 minutes for your presentation. Please go ahead.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
2645 MS TAYLOR: Thank you very much. My apologies for my quick bathroom break.
afternoon, Chair Cram, Members of the Commission, my name is Sharon Taylor, and
I am the VP and the GM of Standard Radio
certainly my pleasure to be back in
we begin, I would like to introduce to you the members of our team, all of whom
have played a key role in developing our application. To my right, Diane Morris, director of
finances for western Canada; to my left, Norine Mitchell, our retail sales manager
in Brandon, Manitoba; to Norine's left, Janet Trecarten. Janet is currently the program director of
our country music station in
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
TAYLOR: Beside Tom is Janet
Lazaris. Janet is the principal of the
Research Strategy Group in
are very pleased to be here today to apply for an FM country music station for
2651 THE CHAIRPERSON: Ms Taylor...?
2652 MS TAYLOR: Yes.
2653 THE CHAIRPERSON: We rushed you. Would you like to take five minutes?
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
2654 MS TAYLOR: We're fine.
2655 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
2656 MS TAYLOR: I actually did run.
2657 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, take a minute anyway and get your breath.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
2658 MS TAYLOR: Thank you.
radio station, which we will call Country 92 FM during our presentation today
will play contemporary country or new country music featuring some of Canada's
and Saskatchewan's great country music stars.
Most importantly, Country 92 will play this music on FM allowing country
music fans in
one of the most surprising things about
Commission has been supplied with lots of statistics and information for these
hearings. We ask that you consider one
more additional point that we feel is highly relevant to the issue of whether
the market can support another radio operator.
When CRTC reported radio sales across the country are compared to
population, and then the provinces are ranked on per capita radio sales,
2662 Radio operators in this city are profitable and comfortable. The notion that licensing another broadcaster in the market will only thin existing revenues resulting in cutbacks of local services is not one that we subscribe to.
2663 As you know, Standard Radio is a family‑owned and operated business and a leading Canadian broadcast company. We have a well‑known track record of serving the communities we operate in, and an almost legendary reputation and commitment to the Canadian Music Industry. With 51 radio stations in seven provinces in markets small, medium, and large, Standard Radio truly understands the importance of local radio service.
some of our radio stations are located in major markets, like
preparing our application for Country 92 FM, Standard listened to the needs
expressed by the many members of the
2666 To highlight our research findings, Janet Lazaris of Research Strategy Group.
LAZARIS: The purpose of our study was to
help Standard Radio identify the most appropriate format for their plans to
our studies showed that there is a viable business opportunity for two
different FM formats in
on the results of the study, it became clear that the addition of an FM country
format to the
a new country format would draw a large and saleable audience. Fully 45 percent of the 18‑plus
audience indicated that they would be either very likely or somewhat likely to
tune the new country format. Based on
the favourite station response, we would project that new country FM format has
the potential to gain an eight‑percent share of the listening among 18‑plus
2671 All in all, the research indicates that Standard's new country format would be viable with a high degree of diversity that would strengthen the local radio market and would be a welcome addition to the media landscape by both listeners and the advertisers who would like to appeal to these consumers.
2672 MS TAYLOR: Thank you, Janet.
92 FM Regina will feature artists that just don't get airplay on FM radio in
‑‑‑ Audio Clip / Clip audio
92 FM will play a variety of country artists, none of them presently heard on
2676 Janet Trecarten, our general manager, has a few comments regarding the programming.
TRECARTEN: The country music format on
FM is one of the most consistently successful radio formats in
frame our position that
Radio owns and operates successful country radio stations on AM and FM in both
small and large markets. Our expertise
and success in this format, as well as our passion for the music and the artists
who make it, will help ensure a successful and popular radio station for both
Standard Radio, we compare playlists frequently with other liked formatted
stations in our team, so if a local artist is successful in
2681 New and emerging country artists will be given an enormous boost on Country 92 FM. One in ten songs played on our radio station will be from a new and emerging Canadian artist, that's ten percent of the songs that we'll air.
MITCHELL: As Sharon noted earlier,
the past year, record job numbers have been posted in this province, and, with
that, comes record retail spending. The
general manager of
met with key advertisers in
2685 Cow Town, a major retailer who has a long and successful relationship with using radio, stated that if they had known a country FM station was possible, they would have reconsidered supporting the petition. The Country 92 FM audience is one he would very much like to reach.
owner of the Keg Restaurant stated that in comparison to other markets he does
business in, he finds
2687 The owner of Wendy's restaurants was very excited about the possibility of having a Standard Radio station in the market, as he has dealt with us, with our company, in other markets and respects our integrity and the positive influence we bring to the communities that we do serve.
I spoke with Ashley Furniture, the most recent big‑box furniture that
SELIN: Our application not only offers
an opportunity for diversity in the
2691 Ten percent of our workweek will be spoken word programming. We're very proud of our community news magazine program set to air each Sunday, designed specifically for those who don't currently have a voice in mainstream media, in particular, the Aboriginal community.
awarding this new licence for Country 92 FM in
our belief the strongest option for bringing diversity to the
2694 To further explain our special Sunday news magazine program and our Aboriginal initiatives, Leah Singleton.
SINGLETON: Many Aboriginal people do not
have a voice in the mainstream media in the city, yet
Sunday morning news magazine program will address this change and the issues
that effect the large and growing First Nations community. We will cover Band issues that relate to all
Aboriginal people in the
2698 As part of our Canadian talent development program, we will recruit and train Aboriginal stringers to provide local and relevant content for the show. And we have earmarked $15,000 yearly for this initiative.
we will guarantee a $10,000 annual bursary at
Standard Radio has been a lot ‑‑ has long been a supporter of
Aboriginal Voices Radio, and, again, we have an agreement with them. They will produce programming that can and
will be included on our weekly news magazine program in
people I spoke with were very excited about this new opportunity to connect,
not just within the Aboriginal community, but the greater community of
TOMPKINS: Our Canadian talent
development program also includes some very unique artist and music concepts
2703 Standard will also direct $25,000 per year toward the Saskatchewan Recording Industry Association or Sask Music of which it is now known.
province is home to a fantastic organization that we can't wait to
other program is the Heart of the City Piano Project. There are 11 intercity schools in
Radio will continue to support FACTOR with a donation of $20,000 per year, and
we have discussed keeping as much of that money as possible, up to 50 percent,
2707 Standard Radio will continue its support of the Starmaker Program with an annual cash donation of $10,000, and, finally, we will make a yearly $5,000 donation available to the Canadian Country Music Association.
2708 MS TAYLOR: Our Canadian talent development program also includes three non‑cash benefit programs. These include Standard's well‑known national free ad plan, which runs commercials promoting new Canadian CDs.
2709 Standard Cares, our national program assisting local children's hospitals and our national public service announcement program, which has Standard radio stations airing public service announcements every hour.
2710 In total, Standard Radio will dedicate $150,000 in cash each year or $1,050,000 cash total over the seven‑year term.
2711 With our $875,000 in‑kind programs, our total Canadian talent development package is almost $2 million over the term of the licence.
summary, we've presented what we consider to be a well‑thought out and
strong application for a new and unique FM radio station for
feel our application brings diversity to
2714 This concludes our presentation, we appreciate the opportunity to answer any questions, and thank you for suffering through my introductions.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
2715 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.