ARCHIVED - Transcript
This page has been archived on the Web
Information identified as archived is provided for reference, research or recordkeeping purposes. It is not subject to the Government of Canada Web Standards and has not been altered or updated since it was archived. Please contact us to request a format other than those available.
Providing Content in Canada's Official Languages
Please note that the Official Languages Act requires that government publications be available in both official languages.
In order to meet some of the requirements under this Act, the Commission's transcripts will therefore be bilingual as to their covers, the listing of CRTC members and staff attending the hearings, and the table of contents.
However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded verbatim transcript and, as such, is transcribed in either of the official languages, depending on the language spoken by the participant at the hearing.
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS BEFORE
THE CANADIAN RADIO‑TELEVISION AND
TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DEVANT
LE CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION
ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES
SUBJECT / SUJET:
Various broadcasting applications further to calls for
applications for licences to carry on radio programming
undertakings to serve Chilliwack and Vancouver, British Columbia /
Plusieurs demandes en radiodiffusion suite aux appels de demandes
de licence de radiodiffusion visant l'exploitation d'une
entreprise de programmation de radio pour desservir Chilliwack et
Vancouver (Colombie-Britannique)
HELD AT: TENUE À:
The Empire Landmark The Empire Landmark
1400 Robson Street 1400, rue Robson
Vancouver, B.C. Vancouver (C.-B.)
February 28, 2008 Le 28 février 2008
Transcripts
In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages
Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be
bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members
and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of
Contents.
However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded
verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in
either of the official languages, depending on the language
spoken by the participant at the public hearing.
Transcription
Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues
officielles, les procès‑verbaux pour le Conseil seront
bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des
membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience
publique ainsi que la table des matières.
Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu
textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée
et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues
officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le
participant à l'audience publique.
Canadian Radio‑television and
Telecommunications Commission
Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des
télécommunications canadiennes
Transcript / Transcription
Various broadcasting applications further to calls for
applications for licences to carry on radio programming
undertakings to serve Chilliwack and Vancouver, British Columbia /
Plusieurs demandes en radiodiffusion suite aux appels de demandes
de licence de radiodiffusion visant l'exploitation d'une
entreprise de programmation de radio pour desservir Chilliwack et
Vancouver (Colombie-Britannique)
BEFORE / DEVANT:
Helen del Val Chairperson / Présidente
Rita Cugini Commissioner / Conseillère
Elizabeth Duncan Commissioner / Conseillère
Peter Menzies Commissioner / Conseiller
Ronald Williams Commissioner / Conseiller
ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS:
Jade Roy Secretary / Secretaire
Joe Aguiar Hearing Manager /
Gérant de l'audience
Carolyn Pinsky Legal Counsel /
Conseillère juridique
HELD AT: TENUE À:
The Empire Landmark The Empire Landmark
1400 Robson Street 1400, rue Robson
Vancouver, B.C. Vancouver (C.-B.)
February 28, 2008 Le 28 février 2008
- iv -
TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE / PARA
PHASE I (Cont.)
PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION PAR:
Matthew Gordon McBride (OBCI) 980 / 5530
PHASE II
INTERVENTION BY / INTERVENTION PAR:
Vista Radio Ltd. 1053 / 6094
6851916 Canada Inc. 1061 / 6152
Rock 95 Broadcasting Ltd. 1073 / 6215
In House Communications Inc. 1083 / 6280
The Coast 104.1 FM Inc. 1086 / 6302
Canadian Broadcasting Corporation 1093 / 6340
PHASE III
INTERVENTION BY / INTERVENTION PAR:
Michael Norman 1098 / 6376
Barbara Dortsch 1132 / 6613
Eagle-Com Marketing 1140 / 6653
Ryan Donn 1153 / 6717
Grrrls with Guitars 1167 / 6797
Convergent Entertainment 1175 / 6825
Jim Byrnes 1184 / 6872
- iv -
TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE / PARA
PHASE III (Cont.)
INTERVENTION BY / INTERVENTION PAR:
Convergent Entertainment 1175 / 6825
Jim Byrnes 1184 / 6872
Dennis Nokony 1188 / 6887
Duane Geddes 1193 / 6908
Nuu-chah-nulth Economic Development Corporation 1208 / 6984
29 Productions 1216 / 6995
Boys and Girls Clubs of Greater Vancouver 1221 / 7014
Pete Mason 1234 / 7101
Sarah Seage 1239 / 7134
Brenda-Lee Sasaki 1242 / 7151
RockSTAR Music Corp. 1259 / 7279
Ron Taverner 1267 / 7315
Cultural Olympiad 1273 / 7349
Elka Yarlowe 1282 / 7389
MusicBC 1299 / 7515
Aboriginal Voices Radio 1305 / 7553
Greater Vancouver Food Bank Society 1314 / 7603
I.T. Productions Ltd. 1316 / 7619
Cordova Bay Entertainment Group 1323 / 7660
Theresa Point 1329 / 7695
Vancouver, B.C. / Vancouver (C.‑B.)
‑‑‑ Upon commencing on Thursday, February 28, 2008
at 0830 / L'audience débute le jeudi 28 février
2008 à 0830
LISTNUM 1 \l 1 \s 55285528 THE SECRETARY: We will now hear the last applicant for the Vancouver market. We will proceed with Item No. 17, which is an application by Matthew Gordon McBride, on behalf of a corporation to be incorporated, for a licence to operate an English‑language FM commercial radio programming undertaking in Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15529 Please introduce yourself and your colleagues. You will then have 20 minutes to make your presentation.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
LISTNUM 1 \l 15530 MR. McBRIDE: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15531 Madam Chair and Commissioners, good morning. My name is Matthew McBride and I am the applicant for a new FM radio station to serve the City of Port Moody in British Columbia.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15532 I am a current licensee. I operate CHMZ‑FM 90.1 The Bear in Tofino, CIMN‑FM 99.5 The Edge in Ucluelet, and CFPV‑FM 98.7 Spud Valley Radio in Pemberton, B.C.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15533 Of these, Tofino and Ucluelet are currently operational. Pemberton will sign on as soon as the snow melts on the mountain and we can get our installation teams there to hang up our antenna.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15534 Over the years I have been extremely fortunate to work with many of the best broadcasters in our industry, including many who have appeared before you this week, and I am very pleased to introduce to the Commission three more of those very fine broadcasters, who are joining me today to present our proposal for a new radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15535 To my left is Doreen Copeland, a virtual legend in this town for her almost 30 years of experience working as an on‑air talent and music director, at the same station, through various formats.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15536 It is a particular honour to have Doreen sitting with me today, because it was Doreen who first taught me the basics of music direction when I showed up at KISS‑FM here in Vancouver in the mid‑eighties. Her knowledge and skill inspired me to pursue programming and music direction, and much of what I know today was first introduced to me by Doreen.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15537 Doreen is a valuable resource as we explore the music we intend to broadcast on CKPM in Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15538 Beside Doreen is Barry Wall, 30 years in broadcasting, including on‑air programming and management roles. Barry has contributed his valuable knowledge to the framework of the concept of Port Moody radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15539 Barry is currently the Operations Manager for McBride Communications and Media, which is the company that oversees the day‑to‑day operations of the radio stations that we are responsible for.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15540 Additionally, Barry is a resident of the tricities area, of which Port Moody is a part, and Barry will be leading the studio and technical build‑out should our application find favour with the Commission.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15541 On my right‑hand side is Eric Stansfield. Eric brings to us an invaluable insight into our Port Moody radio project. He is a highly skilled broadcaster, with over 25 years of experience in radio and television programming and production, with an impressive list of contacts and associates in this industry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15542 He is also a long‑term resident of Port Moody, and, in fact, lives within sight of our intended studio location, which would come in handy in the case of storms or hard‑drive failures.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15543 It was Eric who conducted much of our street‑level support and business research activities, and helped to interpret the data that we found to help us understand the Port Moody market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15544 I will now begin our opening presentation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15545 Members of the Commission, on March 3rd, residents of the City of Port Moody are invited to City Hall to voice their comments and ask questions over the proposed Evergreen Line Route. The Evergreen Line is part of a region‑wide mass transit initiative linking communities along the north side of the Fraser River with Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15546 This is the largest transit initiative that the region has ever seen, and has been under some form of discussion or consideration for most of the past 30 years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15547 Next week, Port Moody City Council is asking the community to visit and voice their opinions. The odds on those citizens hearing about this session on an FM radio station in the Lower Mainland are zero.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15548 The Squamish and Musqueam Bands of the Coast Salish people have an 8,000‑year footprint in Port Moody, using the area to fish and hunt. Western settlers moved to the area over 200 years ago, first for the fur trade, and then the Cariboo Gold Rush, and in 1859 the Royal Engineers, under the command of Colonel Richard Moody, blazed a trail along what is now North Road, connecting Burrard Inlet with New Westminster as a defensive supply route, in case the then capital of B.C. were to be attacked from the south.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15549 In 1886 Port Moody was named the original Pacific terminus for the Transcontinental Railroad that was instrumental in building our nation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15550 As fate would have it, the railroad was eventually pushed forward to just a few blocks from here, in Coal Harbour, but much of the industry that settled there remained, and in 1913 Port Moody was incorporated as a city.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15551 Port Moody bills itself as "The City of the Arts". It is at the head of Burrard Inlet, the foot of Eagle Mountain, and is home to 30,000 residents.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15552 The city describes itself as an easy 40‑minute drive from downtown Vancouver, which would only be true if you were leading a police chase ‑‑
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 15553 MR. McBRIDE: ‑‑ and is tucked around the far side of Burnaby Mountain.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15554 The adjacent communities of Port Coquitlam and Coquitlam, together, form the tricities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15555 Commissioners, we are very pleased today to appear before you to present our application for a new FM station to serve the community of Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15556 The community of Port Moody has long since evolved from a bedroom suburb of Vancouver into its own unique persona, routed in its history, environment and, significantly, a reputation for its artistic attributes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15557 This artistic facet of Port Moody life is embodied with the highly respected Port Moody Arts Centre and its proactive and exciting mandate to enrich community life by encouraging and supporting the development of arts, culture and tourism, and inspiring a vibrant future while respecting the past.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15558 A variety of visual art centres are featured in the community's Arts Walking Tour, which attracts thousands of tourists and locals every year.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15559 The city's community information website contains multiple cultural events for virtually every day of the year, from social events to physical activities to panel discussions on politics, books, ideas and issues, to unique events that you never hear about on the air here, events like the Persian New Year Tea Party, the Festival du Bois, and monthly events at the Place des Arts.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15560 There is also the War Child Canada Fundraiser Concert. This event occurs annually.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15561 And next week at the Inlet Theatre audiences will gather to hear Sam's Falling, an alternative act; Samuel Sixto, performing French classical music; Joanna Rader, a pop artist; James Monroe's acoustic alternative set; and Maxx James, performing blues and rock.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15562 The event will sell out. All of these artists are local, all meet the definition of emerging Canadian artists, and all fall within the broad definition of a "Triple A" format. The odds on hearing any of these artists on Vancouver radio today are zero.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15563 That is a typical day in the cultural life of Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15564 I would now like to present to you Eric Stansfield, broadcaster and resident of Port Moody, to deliver some elementary economic points about the tricities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15565 MR. STANSFIELD: Thank you, Matthew, and thank you to the Commission for hearing our presentation this morning.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15566 As you have heard, the area of Metro Vancouver, known as the tricities, is made up of the cities of Port Moody, Coquitlam and Port Coquitlam. They have all experienced enormous growth over the past 10 to 15 years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15567 From a residential figure, the City of Port Moody has grown from a population of just over 20,000 in 1996 to a B.C. Census estimate of 30,000 in 2007.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15568 As well, the cities of Coquitlam and Port Coquitlam have seen their share of growth. Port Coquitlam totalled over $74 million in new construction in 2006, and the building growth continues in Coquitlam, with new developing neighbourhoods throughout the city.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15569 Port Moody is currently experiencing residential and commercial growth previously unseen. Building permits have gone from $24.9 million in 2000 to over $190 million in 2006.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15570 Business licences have nearly doubled in five years, from just over 1,000 in 2001 to over 2,000 in 2006.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15571 Enough of the dollars and cents. We are talking about three cities that like to have fun. They support and boast year‑round events, festivals, the arts, and the diverse culture of the tricities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15572 As you have already heard, Port Moody has its highly successful Golden Spike Days, which attract visitors from all over Metro Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15573 Coquitlam hosts the Festival du Bois in Maillardville, the largest francophone community west of Winnipeg.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15574 Port Coquitlam is the birthplace and the hometown of the Terry Fox Run, and it is now celebrated worldwide.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15575 Port Moody not only offers its residents lovely and modern neighbourhoods in which to raise families, it also has the natural beauty of mountains, waterfront parks, and plenty of recreation. The same can be said for Coquitlam and Port Coquitlam.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15576 Together, the tricities offer a lifestyle that is unique within Metro Vancouver. It is most definitely an area that is on the move forward.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15577 And as a resident of Newport Village, in the heart of Port Moody, I can assure the Commission that this community is ready to embrace this radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15578 MR. McBRIDE: Thank you, Eric.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15579 Now, Barry Wall, our Operations Manager, will review our business research tactics.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15580 MR. WALL: Thank you, Matthew.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15581 Good morning. Our application used an old‑fashioned method of primary research, held on three distinct levels. First, we executed a face‑to‑face interview campaign with business owners in the area, and completed survey documents for over 10 percent of the entire retail business community in Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15582 We followed up with focused interviews with select businesses, and completed a third round of revenue research interviews to determine attitudes and opportunities for radio advertising within the Port Moody market, and used those research figures to build our programming concept and revenue forecasts.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15583 We conducted several individual interviews with city planners and business and economic development staff, to get an understanding of the behaviour of the retail market and the municipal growth plans for the future.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15584 Not surprisingly, we discovered that a community with two newspapers and no radio station would really like to resolve that gap in media presence, and our business proposition was strongly encouraged by city staff.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15585 They pointed us in the direction of key economic indicators to help us develop a financial plan, and led the way to direct discussions with key community members in business and culture to help us shape a totally unique and local radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15586 Finally, we held 200 personal or telephone interviews with Port Moody residents to determine issues related to format and music, using a qualitative approach. It became clear to us in our discussions that a contemporary music format with a broad, beyond the charts, beyond a format approach, would work within the community, and that, as important as the music would be, what we put between the records would be critical.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15587 We spent the bulk of our business and programming research in direct discussions with real people, real business, and real governance agencies in Port Moody to develop the foundations of CKPM‑FM Port Moody Radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15588 MR. McBRIDE: Thank you, Barry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15589 Now we turn to our very own disenfranchised female, Doreen Copeland, with a brief discussion on our music proposal.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15590 MS COPELAND: Thank you, Matthew.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15591 CKPM‑FM Port Moody will adopt the same eclectic, artsie and diverse attitude that the community itself puts forward.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15592 Our music programming will be comprised of 75 percent Category 2 popular music, 12.5 percent Category 3 ‑‑ you might want to note that change ‑‑ jazz, and 12.5 percent Category 3 world beat.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15593 While we do not necessarily wish to peg this music into a specific format, for understanding, it would be defined as "Triple A".
LISTNUM 1 \l 15594 Today's most widely played "Triple A" acts would be represented on our playlist by what the charts are showing right now, people like Sheryl Crow, Robert Plant and Alison Krause ‑‑ and if you haven't heard their album, you are in for a treat ‑‑ Jack Johnson, Feist, and KD Lang.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15595 The popularity of the music format we propose is apparent. Its aggressiveness and exploratory nature was reflected in Sunday night's Oscar‑winning song called "Falling Slowly". It was from a very little movie out of Ireland, which I think they spent $200,000 filming. The movie is called "Once", and the song won the Oscar, and the song is played only on "Triple A" radio, from what I could find in my research.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15596 What is interesting about that song and that movie ‑‑ I have a 16‑year‑old daughter. We saw the movie together, and both of us were, like, "Where is the Kleenex?"
LISTNUM 1 \l 15597 It was an incredible little movie, and when we were watching the Oscars on Sunday night we both went, "Oh, my God, they won!" It was so exciting.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15598 Her friends don't know about this song. My friends don't know about this song, other than us talking about this fabulous movie and the fabulous soundtrack, because it is not on a radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15599 Anyway, I diverse.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15600 We recognize that the "Triple A" format is being proposed in various forms by a number of other applicants who responded to the August 10th, 2007, Call for Applications, and wish to point out that this application, and its attendant format proposal, was actually filed with the Commission a full month before the Vancouver call was issued.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15601 The format we propose has been supported through our research as one which would find broad acceptance in our target market, and, further, a "Triple A" format is one of the very few formats that lends itself almost perfectly to the objective of supporting emerging artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15602 "Triple A", by its nature, goes off the straight and narrow. It digs deep, and it looks for new sounds and styles and approaches to modern music. This is exactly the realm in which emerging artists operate.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15603 We will maintain, of course, a minimum of 35 percent Canadian content between 6 a.m. and midnight for the entire term of licence, or at any subsequent level, for radio stations within our licence class, as determined by the CRTC.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15604 Approximately 40 percent of our total songs played in a given week will meet our definition of emerging artist, as expressed in our Form 101 submission. An average of three songs per hour will be Canadian emerging artists, and a guaranteed minimum of one Canadian emerging artist will be played in every hour where music is programmed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15605 Additionally, CKPM‑FM Port Moody will feature local emerging artists, defined as those from the Greater Vancouver Regional District, in a feature broadcast weeknights at 7 p.m.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15606 This feature, 10 minutes each airing, will include artist information, interview, music purchase and acquisition information, and the airplay of a selected song.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15607 The feature will be restricted to songs that meet the definition of Canadian content.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15608 MR. McBRIDE: Thank you, Doreen.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15609 Once a month we will broadcast live from one of a number of local live music venues, beginning with Joe's Atlantic Grill, which holds Newfie nights on the last Sunday of every month, bringing in regional artists who specialize in East Coast genres.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15610 Preliminary discussions with two other local venues have been held, and additional venues will be added over the course of the first 18 months of our operation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15611 An operation the size we are proposing has a couple of challenges today. One of them is that we cannot hope to compete at the dollar volume of Astral's, Harvard's, and other applicants at this hearing, and our business plan doesn't allow us to maintain a permanent CCD administrative infrastructure. Therefore, our best solution may be the most beneficial, and certainly is the simplest ‑‑ we are going to whip out our chequebook and start writing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15612 The radio station intends to be a community focal point for all major community events, including the annual Golden Spike Days, a Canada Day‑oriented festival that features, amongst other things, a very popular and highly attended vocal talent contest.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15613 In addition to promotional support, CKPM‑FM will be putting forward an annual cash reward for the winning singer and runners‑up.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15614 A significant part of our proposal regarding Canadian content development is the financial support of musical instrument purchases in local high schools, contributions to local performances in association with cultural events, such as the War Child Concert previously noted, and an allowance for production expenses for our local emerging artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15615 We will maintain a base payment to FACTOR annually, and an additional voluntary payment above the minimums, both to FACTOR and to direct support within our community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15616 We will not make any request to FACTOR related to the distribution of our contribution.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15617 Finally, we pegged our annual CCD contributions to our forecasted revenue, as we anticipate annual growth, so we allocated a predictable sum to CCD initiatives in the form of cash.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15618 We also intend to maintain those dollar volumes proposed in our application should our revenue fall short, but will expand those dollar contributions should our revenues exceed our forecast.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15619 CKPM‑FM Port Moody is a truly local radio station dedicated to the community. We will produce 126 hours per week from our studios in Port Moody's Newport Village.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15620 We will be live from 5 a.m. until 7 p.m. Monday through Friday, and 6 a.m. to 7 p.m. on weekends.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15621 Our evening voice‑tracked hours will be used as a training ground for our newest and developing on‑air talent, so that they will have the benefit of virtual real‑time broadcasting, and the ability to hear themselves on the air. With the vast use of automation in our industry today, traditional training areas, such as evenings and overnights, are virtually non‑existent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15622 We will use our voice‑track time to develop local broadcast talent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15623 The station will carry 872 minutes of spoken word programming, of which 198 will be news.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15624 Local news comprises 80 percent of this volume. The remaining 20 percent will be for regional, provincial and national issues.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15625 Of the remaining time, 25 minutes per day, or 125 minutes per week, will be dedicated to "Port Moody Talks", our daily talk show.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15626 The remaining time will be consumed in commuter service reports, climate reports, and community billboard programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15627 These times do not include DJ ad libs.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15628 The CKPM business plan was developed using the results of our primary research. Revenues were forecast based on our prior experience operating radio stations in small markets, factoring in the very positive feedback we received from local businesses, suggesting that we could expect to obtain about one‑third of the businesses' existing ad budget, which goes primarily to newspapers, and that would be re‑routed to a local station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15629 This seemingly high volume of transference is reflective of an aggressively structured rate card. Most businesses in the tricities area simply cannot afford to advertise on Vancouver radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15630 Our overall growth estimates were derived from known growth factors taken from period‑to‑period reports obtained from the CRTC and other research sources, and our expense growth rates were generally pegged either to the known rate of inflation or to our actual experience. Where possible, costing was done with the anticipated vendors.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15631 Commissioners, you are aware that I currently hold licences in Ucluelet, Tofino, and Pemberton, B.C. I started my career in broadcasting over 27 years ago in a small town, and while I spent most of my time in big cities, I have always had a strong passion for small‑town radio. I am, after all, a local boy, from a small town in the Fraser Valley, just a few miles upriver from Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15632 Our dedication to community service is simple: 100 percent local content, talent and presence, which has worked out very successfully in our existing markets. We call it "Uber" service.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15633 Our stations on the west coast of Vancouver Island regularly host live performances on the air, deliver a very high level of local, emerging artist exposure, and are staffed entirely by locals. We find them, we train them, and we let them reflect their own towns and villages.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15634 By finding and developing local broadcast talent, we have seen the introduction of some amazing local characters like Chainsaw Pete, our relationships counsellor; Jim the Naked Oyster Farmer, our cooking expert and political commentator; and Boathouse Bonnie, an environmental activist.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15635 These are real people, Commissioners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15636 We hold unusual and highly popular local contests like "Blindfold Crab Pot Surprise", "Lick that Flounder", "Deer Drop Bingo", and the 99.5 Daily Prize.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15637 These are real contests, with real deer.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15638 We get the locals on the radio. In Ucluelet, the Mayor hosts a weekly talk show on Thursdays, and the Chamber of Commerce is in on Friday.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15639 "Coastal Affairs" runs weekly in Tofino, associated with a nationally recognized news website, "westcoaster.ca".
LISTNUM 1 \l 15640 The radio stations we operate are staffed live every day of the week, and are true partners in community service, delivering a professional attitude and professional equipment, and supporting programming and business services locally.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15641 "We may be local, but we ain't yocal" is our motto.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15642 We are particularly proud of our commitment to emergency services. Recently, a young boy went missing on a beach near Tofino, and within hours, and, in part, through the publicity given by our radio stations, the largest land, air and sea search in the region's history was conducted. Our public call for help had to be rescinded when authorities were overwhelmed by the response to our announcements.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15643 Our Ucluelet operation includes an emergency broadcast position inside the Emergency Service Building, which is accessible 24 hours per day, seven days per week, by police and firefighters. It is a simple breakaway switch that allows program interruption whenever officials deem it necessary, and when a staff member is not immediately available.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15644 This emergency service was used recently to advise residents of extreme hazards on local beaches during a hurricane, and last year was incorporated into a coastal security exercise by the Canadian Navy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15645 We are integrated with the Provincial Emergency Service Program's Tsunami Warning System at the second level. When a tsunami warning is issued, our operations are contacted after local and civic authorities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15646 Twice in the past three years we have rolled out a staff member to respond to tsunami warnings. Fortunately, neither event resulted in an actual tsunami.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15647 We play local music by local artists like Lance Blackwell, The Bottomfeeders, Kinnie Star and Mark Morrison ‑‑ unknown here, but I assure you, widely exposed on our local radio stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15648 Let's face it, what's the point of having a local radio station if you don't play local artists?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15649 With a total coverage of about 8,000 persons, we run two, fully live, locally produced radio stations in some of the roughest climate on the coast. We do so profitably, and we can do that in the tricities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15650 On March 3rd, the residents of Port Moody will head to City Hall to learn about their upcoming rapid transit project. They won't hear about it on the FM dial in Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15651 Commissioners, today you can change that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15652 We welcome your examination of our application for CKPM‑FM Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15653 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. McBride and your team.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15654 I will start with the questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15655 Probably the easiest one to start with is the one that, I am sure, you will have anticipated from the days of hearing, and it concerns your format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15656 Your format sounds, actually, exactly like Mr. McLaughlin and Mr. Badh's proposed station, "The Planet", with the world beat and the jazz and all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15657 Could you explain what would be the difference?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15658 MR. McBRIDE: Lucky guess on their part.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15659 We went ahead and we developed a format that we felt, first of all, was unavailable in this market, and we wanted to get something that was going to stand out in the crowd for Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15660 Port Moody does have access to many of the Vancouver signals, quite clearly in some cases.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15661 We literally walked around and listened to what people were listening to in their shops and restaurants and businesses, and then we talked to them and we asked them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15662 We went without a perceived notion of what format we were going to introduce into Port Moody, because our intent, really, is a community radio station first, providing the services. The format would be complementary to the delivery of services.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15663 Throughout all of our research, we came up with a "Triple A" type of format, although I don't like that phrase, because it doesn't necessarily sum up what we perceive in our minds, but we have to peg it into something.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15664 THE CHAIRPERSON: But how would the two stations sound different, or would they sound ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 15665 In terms of the music, they will sound the same?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15666 MR. McBRIDE: Going over the application by McLaughlin, to me, it looks like they are going to be much more focused on sort of an urban style, with a more worldly type of flavour, and less on the jazz side, from what I can interpret.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15667 They are looking at, also, what I believe is a softer sound than we are looking at. We are looking at, sort of, a much more today‑type of sound, with less reliance on a gold library.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15668 We are looking in Port Moody at something that, let's say, has a bit more of an edge to it, is a bit more contemporary, which certainly has a higher level of local and developing artists on a regular basis, and more of the jazzier side of it, as opposed to the world beat side.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15669 There are some textual differences there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15670 They won't be talking about the rapid transit project, either.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15671 THE CHAIRPERSON: How would you describe the difference in the sound between, say, your station and Harvard's JANE‑FM?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15672 MR. McBRIDE: Oh, that would be night and day.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15673 JANE‑FM is targeting the disgruntled female, and we are not. Our total target orientation is, first of all, skewed to a much younger audience. If you will note, we are looking at an audience target that is almost ten years younger than JANE‑FM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15674 We aren't targeting females exclusively, so there is going to be a male component, which is all theoretical anyway. But it is going to have a much broader appeal to both male and female listeners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15675 Again, edgier ‑‑ lumpier, if you like that phrase ‑‑ and with a bit more bite to it. We are not going to be lulling anybody into complacency with this radio station by patting them on the head and saying "There, there."
LISTNUM 1 \l 15676 THE CHAIRPERSON: What about Pattison's "Triple A"?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15677 What would be the difference?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15678 MR. McBRIDE: I am going to keep the same case.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15679 As I mentioned, Commissioner, we filed this a month before they did. I think they are copying us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15680 THE CHAIRPERSON: No, no, I am not talking about who is copying whom; I just want to know how it would sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15681 What would be the difference in the sound?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15682 At this stage I am not talking about who is copying whom.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15683 MR. McBRIDE: Pattison is proposing something, again, that is significantly older in its target demographic.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15684 They are all looking at people in their forties, and they are going to be aging their radio station probably on a continuation. I can't guess what they will do in the future, but it will probably be a continuation of the experience they have learned from running AM 600, which has more of an adult standards feel to it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15685 So, again, their sounds are likely to be smoother, softer, and less sort of in your face than the radio station we are proposing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15686 THE CHAIRPERSON: All right. When I first came to Canada I lived in Port Moody, off Evergreen Drive. I actually spent two years there. Port Moody is quite small.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15687 When I look at your application, you use Port Moody sometimes, and tricities. Are you a Port Moody station or a tricities station?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15688 MR. McBRIDE: The station is based in Port Moody. That is where the signal will originate from.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15689 The signal itself will trickle into Port Coquitlam and carry, according to our coverage maps, as far as the Wild Duck Inn, out along the Pitt River.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15690 That's what the footprint of the radio station is.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15691 In order to develop an image for the radio station ‑‑ and I wanted to peg it against something that I could really bite into, and that is the Port Moody "City of the Arts" image. Out of the tricities, Port Moody has the most clearly defined local "zeitgeist", if you will, so it was easier to build a radio station with that focal point in mind.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15692 THE CHAIRPERSON: I am sure we can all name radio stations that, if I didn't read the decision, I wouldn't know what city they were supposed to serve or they were licensed for.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15693 What is to stop you from reorienting the station toward something other than Port Moody once you are on air?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15694 MR. McBRIDE: Do you mean, for instance, targeting Vancouver?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15695 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15696 MR. McBRIDE: The signal doesn't reach Vancouver. It stops at Burnaby Mountain.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15697 It actually goes east. There is no appreciable coverage at all within the City of Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15698 THE CHAIRPERSON: You have quite a good description of the programs. When someone tunes to your station, how do they know right away, "I am listening to the Port Moody station"?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15699 MR. McBRIDE: The branding, for one, will certainly be reflective of the Port Moody area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15700 The other is the content. I don't have any interest in competing in the Vancouver market right now, because it doesn't meet the model that I have already developed in the communities I currently serve.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15701 From that experience, I know how to zero‑in on a specific community, and there is no shortage of content in the Port Moody area to fulfil our content requirements.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15702 There need not be a downtown Vancouver or a Granville in our Port Moody radio station, and I don't intend it. If you do look at it, it is a small station in a very large community, a regional community. The only way we are going to be able to attract and maintain an advertising base is if we make sure the advertisers hear their interests, as well, reflected on the radio on a constant basis.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15703 From a business point of view, if we signed on a Port Moody radio station that didn't carry into Vancouver, and behaved as though we were serving Vancouver, we would be bankrupt in no time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15704 It doesn't make business sense not to sell sandwiches in the community we are in.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15705 THE CHAIRPERSON: I am trying to find a page in your application which I found quite helpful.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15706 There is no page number, but it is section 4.2, "Sample Music Hour".
LISTNUM 1 \l 15707 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15708 THE CHAIRPERSON: You have four songs, and then station information.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15709 Can you give me an example of what the station information will be?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15710 Will it be just station ID?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15711 MR. McBRIDE: That phrase includes all of the vocal content that is going to be fit into that particular segment.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15712 Obviously we are going to ID the radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15713 There is usually a positioning line of some kind, "Golden Spike Radio", or whatever the eventual name of the radio station will be.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15714 When I say station information, there will always be some structured element, whether it is some type of information, such as, in this case, weather or surveillance, which meets the needs of the community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15715 It is not just going to be the station ID followed by commercials, because that doesn't really make a radio station, that makes an automated radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15716 Station information will be whatever the moment calls for ‑‑ traffic, weather, arts, DJ ad lib in that case.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15717 THE CHAIRPERSON: In your presentation you talked about your research approach. I understand the part about business research. Then, when you were doing the audience approach, you talked about using a qualitative approach.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15718 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15719 THE CHAIRPERSON: Could you give us an example of what is a qualitative approach?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15720 MR. McBRIDE: I can.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15721 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15722 MR. McBRIDE: The problem with contemporary research ‑‑ when organizations contract research companies to go out, they have to use pre‑loaded questions in order to get a valid response.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15723 Somebody phones you and, let's say, we are researching a radio station that targets a 40‑year‑old disgruntled female, for example. What they will do is contract a service agency and say: Find that individual, and find something they like.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15724 A researcher, in order to get some response, has to say, "Would you listen to a radio station that played Phil Collins, Dr. Drey, or Chopin," for example.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15725 In other words, there would be that sort of structured question.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15726 The qualitative approach doesn't have that same sort of prompt, of structure; it is inquisitive in nature. We say, "What do you like? What are you listening to? Of your preferences, which way do you go?"
LISTNUM 1 \l 15727 So it takes a little time, and it can only be done in either an individual or a focus group type of environment, and that's the way we approached it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15728 The traditional research method reveals raw data that scientists can crunch, but all it ever produces is Phil Collins. It doesn't produce Feist or any of those other artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15729 So a qualitative approach is much more about what the person is actually involved in than a prompted response.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15730 THE CHAIRPERSON: Going back to your format ‑‑ and I know there was a round of deficiency responses on Canadian content, that portion ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 15731 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15732 THE CHAIRPERSON: Again, here you are talking about the jazz sub‑category, aren't you?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15733 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15734 THE CHAIRPERSON: Jazz and blues.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15735 In the jazz and blues sub‑category ‑‑ and, counsel, please correct me if I am wrong ‑‑ the required minimum content is that 20 percent of the jazz and blues to be played must be Canadian.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15736 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15737 THE CHAIRPERSON: Here you are proposing 12.5 percent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15738 MR. McBRIDE: No, I'm not.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15739 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15740 MR. McBRIDE: The 12.5 percent is the total amount of jazz and blues in total that we are proposing for the radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15741 Canadian content ‑‑ you are talking about extensive administration for a small operation. We are just going to play 35 percent Canadian content in all categories.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15742 It is much easier that way.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15743 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. What percent of the music that you play will be Category 3 music?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15744 MR. McBRIDE: We are anticipating 25 percent Category 3, and half of that will be defined, by CRTC terms, as jazz.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15745 And the other 12.5 percent will be defined as world beat.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15746 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I see where I misread. Of the jazz and the world beat that you play, it is 12.5, it is not 12.5 Canadian content.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15747 MR. McBRIDE: Yes, that's correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15748 THE CHAIRPERSON: I will go more into the specifics of the application now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15749 Spoken word ‑‑ can you confirm the number of hours of total spoken word, including structured and unstructured, please?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15750 MR. McBRIDE: In the opening remarks I indicated that the structured spoken word programming will be 872 minutes, in total, including all of our news, weather and sports.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15751 In addition to that we used a rule of thumb in order to determine how much unstructured stuff ‑‑ which is the DJ ad lib and the DJ patter. I always forecast 5 minutes an hour.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15752 Because with all of the other content, now you are up at 9, 10, 11 minutes of DJs, and that's a great ratio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15753 So I would estimate 5 minutes per hour. For planning purposes, that is 630 minutes per week.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15754 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. I am trying to get to the appendix of your spoken word.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15755 Is it 8(c) or ‑‑
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 15756 THE CHAIRPERSON: What proportion of your spoken word will be newscasts?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15757 MR. McBRIDE: That will be 198 minutes per week.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15758 THE CHAIRPERSON: Of that, what would be pure news and what would be spoken word "Other"?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15759 MR. McBRIDE: That refers exclusively to the news content only.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15760 THE CHAIRPERSON: I see that you have not opted to do an afternoon drive news as a newscast.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15761 MR. McBRIDE: That's right. What we intend to do there is cover ‑‑ the traffic and the weather surveillance is ‑‑ since you are a Port Moody former resident, you know that is pretty much all there is to focus in on out there, and the information of the day, at that time ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 15762 First of all, we are not going to compete as a hard news station. We want the information arising from the DJ contribution and ad libs to be much more socially and culturally focused ‑‑ What is happening today; what is happening tonight; what is happening tomorrow ‑‑ which could not be quantified as actual news. So, therefore, it doesn't exist there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15763 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. During the afternoon drive, would your schedule of the frequency of the surveillance information and the station information just be more frequent, between songs, or ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 15764 MR. McBRIDE: During the drive periods ‑‑ the peak periods ‑‑ I am anticipating five breaks per hour, where additional content in addition to music would be provided, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15765 THE CHAIRPERSON: Can you clarify the total time that you are devoting to the "Port Moody Talks" program?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15766 MR. McBRIDE: It says in my submission 30 minutes per day, five days per week. And then, in my presentation here, I said 25 minutes. That is because I withdrew 5 minutes for possible commercials during that timeframe.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15767 So it should be 25 minutes net of commercials, or 125 minutes per week for "Port Moody Talks".
LISTNUM 1 \l 15768 THE CHAIRPERSON: On your CCD initiatives, I see from your application that you are going to earmark them for District 43 schools.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15769 MR. McBRIDE: Correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15770 THE CHAIRPERSON: Between the time you filed the application and now, have you spoken to or approached any of the schools?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15771 MR. McBRIDE: I have verified, through the District itself, their donation policy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15772 They have a fairly structured and disciplined donation policy regarding cash contributions to the school, because they don't like to have money floating around involuntarily.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15773 So the protocol I have established with the District is on how they would receive the money, and how it can be directed to approved CCD development initiatives, but it does have to go through the District.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15774 THE CHAIRPERSON: I think that's where the clarification is required.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15775 I know that in your reply you sent us to the link of the policy, and I can appreciate, perhaps, the rigidity of some of their policies.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15776 How would you be able to ensure that the District or the schools that receive the funds will direct them to the initiatives, or that they will be spent according to the CCD requirements of the Commercial Radio Policy?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15777 MR. McBRIDE: I would obtain from the School District a letter to file with the Commission in support of that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15778 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, good.
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 15779 THE CHAIRPERSON: Now, in the qualitative research that you did, did you draw any conclusions on whether any particular segment of your target audience is more or less served by the existing stations?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15780 MR. McBRIDE: No, because that wasn't really the direction that we found ourselves going into. We kind of ‑‑ as you know, we showed up in Port Moody and started talking to people with a crazy idea. And we weren't really looking for dissatisfaction. That wasn't our direction.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15781 THE CHAIRPERSON: M'hm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15782 MR. McBRIDE: What we were really looking for was ‑‑ we have some experience in doing small town radio. Is there a small town that we could do more of it in?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15783 And so that's the way our research was approached, not from a dissatisfaction point of view but what would either improved satisfaction ‑‑ or how could we introduce a new product to the market rather than enhancing or replacing an existing one. So no, we really didn't find out where we ‑‑ you know, who was lacking in service in that area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15784 THE CHAIRPERSON: You talk about the experience you have had in Tofino and Ucluelet. I take it from your comments today that those stations are doing well and are profitable?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15785 MR. McBRIDE: Yes, they are. Ucluelet signed on September 1st last year in a profitable status and has never lost money. It's been profitable from day one. We were sold out from November to February of last year at nine minutes an hour from 6 a.m. until 10 p.m.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15786 You don't know until you get there how much people love their local radio, in a way that you can't love a radio station in Vancouver because there is too many choices.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15787 THE CHAIRPERSON: Sorry. No, go ahead, you finish.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15788 MR. McBRIDE: Well, Commissioner, I mean I can ramble on.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15789 THE CHAIRPERSON: No, no. No, go ahead. I do want to listen to ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 15790 MR. McBRIDE: And I will.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15791 They don't have a local radio station in these markets. They do have repeaters and a number of pirate signals that are out there from all of the Vancouver stations, five or six of them out there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15792 But the local radio station talks about the rain, which is really big out there. We do surf reports every single hour of the day seven days a week; tide, row reports and marine weather every single hour of the day because that information is so vital. What they like is the service, not necessarily the music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15793 Our music it's like a salad. You know, whatever happens to be the flavour of the day that fits works out there. The local artist ‑‑ and there is many ‑‑ releases a new album and they just show up and begin playing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15794 So it's the interaction between the community that makes the small markets fun to be on, but that actually translates into revenue because the businesses recognize that through their support of the radio station they keep it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15795 THE CHAIRPERSON: I will come back to this, but right now just a short answer on Tofino. How long has that been on the air?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15796 MR. McBRIDE: It signed on in 2005.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15797 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15798 MR. McBRIDE: October 2005.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15799 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. And it is enjoying the same success as Ucluelet?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15800 MR. McBRIDE: Somewhat less.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15801 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15802 MR. McBRIDE: Tofino did replace an existing radio station that collapsed for non‑financial reasons prior to that, CHOO‑FM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15803 THE CHAIRPERSON: But does ‑‑ Tofino would receive your Ucluelet station signal, wouldn't it?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15804 MR. McBRIDE: Through the miracle of technology both signals meet in the middle of Long Beach so you can't hear one in the other market. It's amazing how that happened.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 15805 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. How many other stations serve Ucluelet?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15806 MR. McBRIDE: CRTC‑approved stations?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15807 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, and then you can also tell me about the non‑approved stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15808 MR. McBRIDE: I think there is one licensed repeater in Tofino. There is none that I know of in Ucluelet.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15809 There are ‑‑ hobbyists pickup signals and have repeated them in the market because they have never had the radio service. There is two additional, as far as I know, unregulated signals in Ucluelet and an additional one in Tofino that tends to come on and go off the air depending on how we are performing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15810 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. So Tofino has, just summarize ‑‑ has one other authorized signal. Is that ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 15811 MR. McBRIDE: I am not sure it's authorized, Commissioner. I don't want to get into trouble.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15812 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, okay. So Tofino has one other signal? Can I ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 15813 MR. McBRIDE: Two.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15814 THE CHAIRPERSON: Two other signals.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15815 MR. McBRIDE: One I think is authorized, Jack‑FM, and CFMI a repeater in that market. And Jack‑FM and CFMI and JR Country are repeated in Ucluelet.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15816 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. And again those are the authorized signals.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15817 MR. McBRIDE: I have no idea.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15818 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. So in Tofino you can also hear Jack‑FM?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15819 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15820 THE CHAIRPERSON: JR Country and, I am sorry, you just mentioned?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15821 MR. McBRIDE: Jack‑FM and CFMI in Tofino.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15822 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15823 MR. McBRIDE: In Tofino, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15824 THE CHAIRPERSON: On 101.1, okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15825 What about Ucluelet?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15826 MR. McBRIDE: Jack‑FM, CFMI and JR‑FM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15827 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15828 MR. McBRIDE: And we beat them all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15829 THE CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, what were you going to say?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15830 MR. McBRIDE: I say we beat them all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15831 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15832 You don't know at this point whether they are authorized but it sounds like they are not that reliable signals?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15833 MR. McBRIDE: They are great signals.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15834 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15835 MR. McBRIDE: Yes, they are full power.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15836 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. So what were you referring to that there was a signal that came in and out? What signal were you referring to then?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15837 MR. McBRIDE: Oh, in Tofino ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 15838 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15839 MR. McBRIDE: ‑‑ whoever is running that particular signal for CFMI if they like us and we are playing the music they like they turn CFMI off.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15840 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15841 MR. McBRIDE: It's an unusual place out there, Commissioner.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15842 THE CHAIRPERSON: What do you see are the differences, the main differences between how you have to do business in Tofino and Ucluelet and how you are going to have to do business here in Port Moody?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15843 MR. McBRIDE: Well, first of all, there is a much better critical mass in Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15844 THE CHAIRPERSON: M'hm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15845 MR. McBRIDE: There is simply a lot more businesses in a similarly dense environment.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15846 The Port Moody in the trading area out there is not particularly exploded or hard to reach. And that's the same in any small town. You have generally one or two downtown or commercial centres and peripheral industry on the outlying areas.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15847 And the reason Port Moody stands out is because of that. It's got a geography that really is clearly identifiable. You can look on a map and say, "I am in Port Moody", a great place to start. It has two identifiable commercial districts along St. John's and in the new Newport Village development areas with significant clusters of commercial activity. And so it has a critical mass and I think it will be easier.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15848 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. What do you see are the challenges?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15849 MR. McBRIDE: Comparison to other radio stations and the perception that we might not be ‑‑ we might not be a big city. That's always a risk when you run a local radio station, is that there will be a desire for some people to want to be something other than local, see themselves as bigger than their community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15850 THE CHAIRPERSON: But I think that one of the challenges that are immediately apparent is that competition will be a lot stiffer.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15851 MR. McBRIDE: I doubt that, Commissioner. The competition out there isn't for radio. There is nobody in Vancouver selling $20 or $30 spots out there, you know. And unless anyone is listening right now that's going to go out and drink my milkshake, I think we are pretty safe with our rate card.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15852 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 15853 THE CHAIRPERSON: I just want to turn to your programming expenses.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15854 I think of your expenses, of your total expenses. What proportion is payroll and benefits?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15855 MR. McBRIDE: You are referring to the seven‑year forecast, Commissioner?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15856 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15857 MR. McBRIDE: Then I will look at the same document.
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 15858 MR. McBRIDE: It is going to be fairly high given the payroll requirements versus the anticipated revenue and in the neighbourhood of 50 or 60 percent initially. That figure will decline as revenue builds, but the payroll expense will be quite high. In order to staff it at a competitive level we have to ‑‑ we have to eat profit.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15859 THE CHAIRPERSON: And how many ‑‑ did you say six and a half staff?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15860 MR. McBRIDE: Yes, we are going to start out looking at about six and a half people on the operation. Because we already have existing business infrastructure we can provide backend services; accounting, financial services, so that we don't have to reduplicate them in any given location.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15861 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. And this will be 6.5 new positions?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15862 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15863 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15864 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15865 THE CHAIRPERSON: And what would the ‑‑ what are the 6.5? What are those positions?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15866 MR. McBRIDE: I have a station manager.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15867 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15868 MR. McBRIDE: A position that will involve in a station of this size, of course, some programming duties; a salesperson, a newsperson, two to three programming hosts who have other additional duties like programming and a creative and a production individual. And there is also an allocation for some relief work based on the requirements.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15869 It would be virtually all in programming and sales.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15870 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15871 MR. McBRIDE: So that's where ‑‑ one specific sales representative.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15872 THE CHAIRPERSON: Then looking at again your financial projections, the line on programming that does not include any of the salary and benefits, expenses that you referred to.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15873 MR. McBRIDE: No, I take out all of those in building these plans.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15874 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15875 MR. McBRIDE: And I put ‑‑ all of the payroll falls under its own category. So what you are seeing there is purely the departmental budgets.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15876 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, great.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15877 And you are projecting an audience share of 1 percent for year one.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15878 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15879 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. And you are quite confident that you will ‑‑ you can achieve that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15880 MR. McBRIDE: Absolutely. That's a very modest figure.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15881 THE CHAIRPERSON: Now, compared to the rest of Canada and B.C., Vancouver stations seem to have to spend a bit more than the rest for programming expenses. Your programming expenses and general expenses are quite low.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15882 So we may be covering the ground again but this reflects our concern on your ability to compete with all of the other signals that will be coming into the market that you want to serve. Can you comment on that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15883 MR. McBRIDE: Where other stations are going to invest in a number of different programming items; imported feature programming, production services, et cetera, this is why our payroll is comparatively higher according to our overall budget. We are just going to use people on the radio, on the air as much as possible to create that relationship.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15884 You know, you can go the bells and gong route but that's not our intent nor do we make any representation that we are going to compete with the Vancouver radio station. We are going to carve out a niche there and fill a local marketing opportunity that we perceive with human beings talking about Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15885 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. And your projected PBIT profit which is relatively optimistic is based on what you have been talking about on the research and the business guarantee that you have already conducted?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15886 MR. McBRIDE: A combination. I mean the research ‑‑ I would say that our financial forecasts are actually modest for what we had discovered in the research. I prefer to be modest in that area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15887 My experiences already in some of the smallest markets in this country indicate that you can anticipate a higher return if the product is delivered effectively.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15888 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15889 I was interested when you talked about the voice tracked ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 15890 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15891 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15892 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15893 THE CHAIRPERSON: Can you elaborate on that, please?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15894 MR. McBRIDE: Of course I can.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15895 Everybody voice tracks here and all across the country we voice track. And what it has become is a way of cost control exercise for one or, in some cases, an ability to distribute one voice over wide areas and multiple stations at the same time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15896 But voice tracking should really be a way for a programmer or a station operator to get the possible announcer on the air. We are not dealing and we won't be dealing with the highest and the best paid broadcasters in the business. We will be dealing with some young people, likely straight out of BCIT or shortly thereafter, who show capacity or ability. And by using a voice tracked environment we can actually use that to get them better and to improve our product to a point where it is more palatable.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15897 So the use of voice tracking can either be as a cost control device or as a quality control device and a developmental tool. And that's the way I choose to see voice tracking.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15898 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. What would be the typical ‑‑ the content of your voice tracked programming?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15899 MR. McBRIDE: It wouldn't sound any different from a live program. That's the whole point, is that the evening program does not all of a sudden become paced.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15900 THE CHAIRPERSON: M'hm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15901 MR. McBRIDE: You know? We continue on. The voice tracker will be required to deliver the same content and participate as a full member of the operation. It's just that, given the skill level that we are anticipating right now, that it would be more effective for them to use the voice tracking technique to perfect their craft.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15902 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15903 MR. McBRIDE: It also, Commissioner, gives them a chance to hear themselves on the radio, which is very difficult for developing broadcasters to do.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15904 THE CHAIRPERSON: Now, are you ‑‑ are you planning for any syndicated programming?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15905 MR. McBRIDE: That would be counter to our philosophy of a local radio station, Commissioner.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15906 THE CHAIRPERSON: Do you anticipate any synergies with Tofino and Ucluelet apart from what you had already mentioned, some backroom accounting and such administrative costs?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15907 MR. McBRIDE: No. Again, even in Tofino and Ucluelet, which are only 40 kilometres away from each other, we do not share any services because it defeats the whole point of having a local radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15908 THE CHAIRPERSON: All right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15909 Why do you think this is the best use of the 98.7 frequency?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15910 MR. McBRIDE: From a technical point of view it works extremely well in that particular area. It delivers a very crisp, clean, well‑defined signal that doesn't encroach on the Vancouver market so we can leave that market to the heavier players who are here today. It does something a little different with the radio business in general.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15911 We are looking at taking a community and serving one community with one radio station. That model originally was used to develop most of the radio markets in Canada and our experience in operating these very small community‑focused radio stations has been extremely positive and it's time for us, our operations group here to roll that idea out into slightly larger communities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15912 So we are going from, you know, Tofino and Ucluelet let's say both total footprints 4,000 to something that is less than 10 times that large with essentially the same principle. Can we do local, tightly‑focused, highly customer and listener‑oriented community radio?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15913 And now we would like to do it in the context of a larger market because I think it will work quite well and provide an exciting alternative without damaging or taking away from any other of the very successful broadcasters in the market today.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15914 THE CHAIRPERSON: I believe Commissioner Duncan has some questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15915 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: I do have some questions, mostly because I'm from the other end of the country and I am not familiar with the area. So if you wouldn't mind helping me out?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15916 So did I understand you to just say that Ucluelet and Tofino have a population of 4,000 combined?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15917 MR. McBRIDE: No, 8,000 combined. Between 8 and 10 is the estimate for the entire coverage region.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15918 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: And is Pemberton in that, included in that or is it different again?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15919 MR. McBRIDE: No, Pemberton is north of Whistler.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15920 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: And what would your population be there that you are serving?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15921 MR. McBRIDE: The total audience coverage up there is 6,000.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15922 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: And I notice in your application that your forecasted numbers are something ‑‑ or your market area served I think is around 30,000, just under 30,000.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15923 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15924 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: But when I look at the map and I see that in the 3 millivolts is Coquitlam and Port Coquitlam.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15925 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15926 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: So is that in your numbers? Are those in your numbers?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15927 MR. McBRIDE: No, they are not. We are targeting the city of Port Moody with our application and so we are using only the Port Moody figures, household figures and audience figures.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15928 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Okay. So will your signal spill over into Port Coquitlam?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15929 MR. McBRIDE: Yes, it will.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15930 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: And are there radio stations in those two communities?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15931 MR. McBRIDE: No, there aren't.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15932 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: There aren't either. Okay, all right. I am just trying to get an idea.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15933 And so what ‑‑ I would think you would get some spin‑off benefit there even though I know you are telling ‑‑ it's a local station but what would be the population of those communities?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15934 MR. McBRIDE: The Tri‑Cities area is the figure that we know and it's 207,000.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15935 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: And there is no radio stations?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15936 MR. McBRIDE: Not yet.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 15937 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: How many thousand again?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15938 MR. McBRIDE: 207,000, Commissioner.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15939 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Okay, I won't ask that question again. Okay, all right. Thank you, all right, just trying to understand that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15940 And so the Vancouver stations because of the topography are those signals received in Port Moody then?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15941 MR. McBRIDE: Yes, they are.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15942 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: They are.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15943 So your ‑‑ I know your audience projections are a percentage of the total Vancouver market. So I guess really I am just relying on your income projections and you are showing, as the Chair pointed out, a positive cash flow in year one.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15944 MR. McBRIDE: We have done that everywhere else we have been, Commissioner.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15945 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Yes, that's good.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15946 Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15947 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Cugini, please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15948 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank you, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15949 Just a couple of follow‑up questions; 207 residents in the Tri‑City area, that's your full coverage area?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15950 MR. McBRIDE: 207,000.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15951 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: 207,000, right. And your core audience is 25 to 44. What is the median age of your listener?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15952 MR. McBRIDE: 34.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15953 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: 34.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15954 MR. McBRIDE: Is sort of where we settled on as the building point for our target.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15955 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And you are not skewing male or female? You think pretty much it is going to be even between the two?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15956 MR. McBRIDE: Our indications are that this format properly presented appeals to both genders equally.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15957 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Okay. And in terms of the format you just confirmed that the Vancouver radio signals are received in this Tri‑City area. Are all of them received?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15958 MR. McBRIDE: In varying degrees of quality. There is Burnaby Mountain which gets in the way and can impair certain signals.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15959 So they are all receivable out there, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15960 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And I heard you say earlier that you are going to carve out a niche and I understand that it's going to be primarily with your spoken word programming because it will be community‑based and it will be local.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15961 Because when I look at your sample playlist; Killers, Amy Winehouse, Snow Patrol, Blue October, I am going to hear those on Hot AC stations, for example, that are coming from Vancouver in Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15962 MR. McBRIDE: I would disagree with that, Commissioner.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15963 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Okay, well, maybe I hear them on Toronto Hot AC stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15964 MR. McBRIDE: Their signals don't carry to Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15965 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: That would be more likely the case.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15966 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15967 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: I am sorry, can you repeat that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15968 MS COPELAND: Yes, you would probably hear them in Toronto. But I think Matthew is still whining that he never hears his favourite gal, Amy Winehouse.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15969 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Okay. So your contention is that perhaps hot AC stations are in fact in this area programmed differently than they would be in other parts of the country?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15970 MS COPELAND: I think so, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15971 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Okay. So it's not just going to be simply on your local programming that you will carve out the niche. It will be as well with the music that you will be providing?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15972 MR. McBRIDE: Our intent in selecting this musical direction was to provide new music. And that music is, in our opinion ‑‑ we all live here. We all listen to the radio ‑‑ is that it's not being heard. I'm certain it is played in this market but I haven't heard an Amy Winehouse record, you know.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15973 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And I agree with you. I just hope she gets her act together so she can continue providing the talent, but she is amazing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15974 MR. McBRIDE: Before she drinks herself to death, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15975 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And the other thing I wanted to say, Ms ‑‑ Doreen. I am just going to call you Doreen.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15976 MS COPELAND: Sure.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15977 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: I agree with you on Falling Slowly and most important and ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 15978 MS COPELAND: Did you see the movie?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15979 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: I haven't but I loved their acceptance speech.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15980 MS COPELAND: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15981 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: That's all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15982 Thank you, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15983 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Menzies, please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15984 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Sorry, just a quick question.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15985 In terms of establishing your identity as a local station, Tofino you mentioned doing the hourly surf report, rain; expected tides; the fishing report, et cetera. That is obviously very well suited to those communities. What would be the equivalent that would be well suited in the Port Moody/Port Coquitlam area?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15986 MR. McBRIDE: Tide reports, fishing reports.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15987 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Fishing, no surf though?
LISTNUM 1 \l 15988 MR. McBRIDE: You can't get a big wave out there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15989 The recreational aspects of that area ‑‑ it's at the head of Burrard Inlet and Reed Point Marina is there. It is one of the largest marinas in the region. Fishing and tide reports are absolutely critical out there. The region has a significant recreational network in terms of cycling pathways and outdoor activities and those types of things will take prominence.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15990 Weather means everything out here and the weather in Surrey is not the weather in Port Moody so those, again, distinguish the local area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15991 But in addition to that the relation is going to be with the community activities which, when you visit Port Moody, you discover it really does have its own mindset and its own place and it's an excellent hook to hang a local radio station on.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15992 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay, thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15993 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Williams, please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15994 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good morning, Mr. McBride, panellists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15995 MR. McBRIDE: Good morning.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15996 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In talking about the other radio stations that you own in Ucluelet, Tofino and Pemberton you say your dedication to community service is simple, 100 percent local content and you use uber‑service.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15997 MR. McBRIDE: Uber‑service, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15998 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And you regularly host live performances there and deliver a high level of local emerging artist exposure and it's staffed entirely by locals.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15999 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16000 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You find them, you train them and you let them reflect their talents and villages. And the you describe some of the characters that you have developed ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16001 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16002 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: ‑‑ Chainsaw Pete and Jim the Naked Oyster Farmer and ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16003 MR. McBRIDE: He is a real person, Commissioner.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16004 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And so these are real people?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16005 MR. McBRIDE: Yes, sir.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16006 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And so they decide their own content? They just come forward with a show and you play them to reflect the community or do you help ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16007 MR. McBRIDE: You don't do that with Jim or Chainsaw.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16008 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16009 MR. McBRIDE: I mean we have to control them and, you know, they are guests on our morning and our afternoon shows and they provide regular contributions ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16010 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, I see, so there is an announcer interacting with them that ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16011 MR. McBRIDE: Oh, yes, we have a morning host and the Duke of Yuke in the afternoon, yes, and they just kind of rope in these characters. It's almost like a drop‑in radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16012 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have you identified Port Moody characters of a similar nature that might provide a similar role in this proposed radio station?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16013 MR. McBRIDE: The Hat Lady.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16014 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Hat Lady?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16015 MR. McBRIDE: The Hat Lady everyone knows her out there. And absolutely, she was one of the earliest supporters of this idea and, in fact, a motivator for us to continue working, the Hat Lady.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16016 MR. STANSFIELD: Everyone knows the Hat Lady. As a resident of that region, of Port Moody and I live, as I said before, in the heart of it in a new development called Newport Village, in my research in talking with people on the street in their face everybody ‑‑ their eyes lit up and it was like "You mean our own radio station?" And there are characters out there. There are people that we can approach.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16017 I have a good friend of mine that is a musician and has been for years, plays in a local band and such. But he has played with some of the greatest names in music over the years and there is a character there that can be built.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16018 So the region, you know, I guess you could say is built with a number of characters and the Hat Lady is one of them right in the heart of Newport Village.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16019 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the significance of this Hat Lady, like what does she offer? I want to know what motivates you. You said that's what motivated you.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 16020 MR. McBRIDE: She will probably get a job if I describe it. A remarkable outgoing personality who is just a naturally funny person and a talker who has ‑‑ runs a hat shop and it is kind of a character clothing shop. But because of that she knows every single person in the community and can drop names at the drop of a hat and is entirely and totally interested in what goes on in Port Moody.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16021 And that is the extent of her world and she loves it. And she conveys that energy so well that when I met her the very first time I immediately thought there is somebody for this operation. That's the kind of person we want to have.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16022 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Thank you very much for that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16023 THE CHAIRPERSON: I believe Commissioner Duncan has a follow‑up question.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16024 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Yes, I just have two questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16025 In your remarks this morning you mentioned that 40 percent of your total songs played will meet your definition of emerging artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16026 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16027 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: And I am just wondering if you would be willing to accept a COL that 40 percent of your music would be emerging artists?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16028 MR. McBRIDE: Yes, we will.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16029 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: And that's ‑‑ all right. Well, if you have no problem with doing that? That's a high content.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16030 MR. McBRIDE: Oh, absolutely. It's where we are going.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16031 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Okay. That's your local, okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16032 The other point I wanted to ask you about you made an arrangement, I understand from Mr. Stursberg's remarks yesterday, to coexist with CBC ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16033 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16034 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: ‑‑ using that frequency.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16035 And I am just wondering, are there are risks associated with that, like potential costs to you if certain conditions aren't met if their signal is interfered with? What type of a cost does that potentially involve for you and is that reflected in your statements, your projections?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16036 MR. McBRIDE: No, the costs aren't reflected in there because the best consultative advice from our engineers is that we don't anticipate one. If we do experience one we are looking at something in the neighbourhood of $10 to $15,000 in additional engineering required in order to shield ourselves from each other.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16037 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: And in your discussions with CBC that's how they would see it as well. I mean that that would be the magnitude of the problem or do they concern ‑‑ I am sure they must concern themselves with that. They must think it is solvable if they ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16038 MR. McBRIDE: They do think it's solvable. They do think that that is speculative at this stage. I mean you never really know until we turn it on. I'm certain that their solution will come in at a different dollar value than ours, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16039 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: But one you can afford?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16040 MR. McBRIDE: Well, we will afford our own, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16041 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: All right. Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16042 That's it, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16043 THE CHAIRPERSON: One more follow ‑‑ well, I should never commit myself to the number of questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16044 But I know that ‑‑ looking at your contour and you had mentioned today that Maillardville falls within your, I think, 5 millivolt contour, are you planning any French programming?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16045 MR. McBRIDE: The station will be an English‑language station but when you are dealing with a community event such as those in Maillardville; yes, the notion of French does trickle out. But we will not be catering to the French language, no ‑‑ French music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16046 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, one more.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16047 Well, you know, on the local stations I acknowledge what you were saying about they are probably not going to hear about the Port Moody council meeting even on an issue as important as the Evergreen Line but I think the congestion in the Tri‑Cities, the traffic there is actually covered by the local stations because that is very much a part of the commuter traffic.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16048 Now, how do you plan to do it better?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16049 MR. McBRIDE: I think in this case it's not a matter of necessarily doing it better because there is only one way to report a traffic jam and it's by saying that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16050 However, if we didn't have that as part of our programming we wouldn't be providing the service that we propose. And that obviously would be a reason for somebody to look for that service elsewhere, so that our traffic programming simply becomes an identifying device for the radio station but a market reality. In this region if you don't cover traffic and weather you are not in the game at all. So that's our approach there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16051 THE CHAIRPERSON: Before I turn it over to Legal just some ‑‑ how many do you think we should licence for the Vancouver market? And if you were to be one of the recipients of the licence who else do you believe would be the most compatible with you?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16052 MR. McBRIDE: I liked every applicant this week, for starters, because we all seem to be going in roughly the same direction and it validates our sensibilities about broadcasting.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16053 There are a couple that I thought did standout quite well and, you know, certainly from a formatic point of view the McLaughlin one looks so darn much like ours that I can't but admire their genius in coming up with that format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16054 I really liked the SKY‑FM because, you know, I had previously been part of an application for that format several years ago in Vancouver and I really believe that that format has a big place in this city and that's a gap that needs to be filled.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16055 But I also liked Astral and Harvard. You know, nobody put a bad proposal together.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16056 And so I would have to say that if I had to ‑‑ if I had to choose I wouldn't really. I would have to leave to you. But you haven't heard a bad application this week.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16057 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16058 Ms Pinsky, our legal counsel, has some questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16059 MS PINSKY: Thank you, Madam Chair. I just have a couple of follow‑up questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16060 With regard to the emerging artist commitment you have indicated that 20 percent of all musical selections would be Canadian emerging artists. Is that correct?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16061 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16062 MS PINSKY: And would you commit to that level by way of a condition of licence?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16063 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16064 MS PINSKY: Thank you
LISTNUM 1 \l 16065 Then with regard to the subcategory 34 jazz selections you have indicated as well through your discussions with the Chair that 12.5 percent of the subcategory 34, that you would have 12.5 percent of subcategory 34. As I believe you are aware, and as the Chair was explaining, the Commission's expectation is that 20 percent of that amount would be Canadian content.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16066 Would you be willing to accept a condition of licence requiring you to broadcast 20 percent of your subcategory 34 specifically as Canadian content?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16067 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16068 MS PINSKY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16069 And then, just finally, you have undertaken to file a letter from the school district with respect to the CCD eligibility criteria.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16070 MR. McBRIDE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16071 MS PINSKY: When would you be in a position to do that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16072 MR. McBRIDE: If I can have until Monday afternoon?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16073 MS PINSKY: That's fine.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16074 MR. McBRIDE: It's report card time right now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16075 MS PINSKY: The end of the day Monday is fine.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16076 MR. McBRIDE: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16077 MS PINSKY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16078 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. McBride and your team, so this is the opportunity for your last minute pitch as to why you believe you should receive a licence.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16079 MR. McBRIDE: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16080 Commissioners, CKPM‑FM Port Moody is the 17th applicant in a process that in our opinion has 17 very good applications presented to you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16081 We are not competing for a Vancouver licence, however. We are competing for an idea, the idea where a local community can have a local radio station that suits their needs, serves their purposes and is a true mirror of the community. A radio station that drops names; you know, where people who make things happen in your hometown are heard; where stores, restaurants, auto dealers, mechanics and even home‑based craft sellers can have their chance to advertise their products, sell their business services and profit through the cost‑effective use of local radio advertising; a simple fun‑loving local community station where the garage band could actually get a record on the radio even if only for one spin; where the Tri‑Cities' hockey championship game scores will be broadcast and where the mayor, the council, the local MP and the MLA all have a chance to speak and be heard.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16082 Port Moody and the Tri‑Cities biggest community festivals won't be overlooked or buried in the last 60 seconds of a late night newscast as filler. They will be front and centre with our full commitment and coverage.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16083 CKPM is a community radio station and programming; community involvement and personality; operated by professional broadcasters looking to capture some of the truly great things about our business, things like having some room to speak, to make musical decisions, to build a real on‑air personality, to take a program schedule, inject their passion into it and make it a fun, exciting and relevant reflection of the people they serve; a small town radio station in a small town just the other side of Burnaby Mountain bringing the magic of local radio into the community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16084 Commissioners, we have done this before and we will do it again. Thank you for considering our application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16085 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. McBride and your team for your time and the presentation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16086 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16087 Ms Roy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16088 THE SECRETARY: We will take a 15‑minute break, but I would ask all the applicants to come and see me to tell me if they wish to do Phase II or not.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16089 Thank you.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 0955 / Suspension à 0955
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1019 / reprise à 1019
LISTNUM 1 \l 16090 THE SECRETARY: Please take a seat.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16091 We have now reached Phase II in which applicants appear in the same order to intervene on competing applications if they wish.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16092 0785330 B.C., Touch Canada, Newcap, Harvard, Astral Media Radio, Evanov Communication, Nirenderjit Pataria, Jim Pattison, 902890 Alberta, Frank Torres and Matthew Gordon McBride have indicated that they will not appear in Phase II.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16093 Therefore, I would ask Vista Radio to come forward to the presentation table.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 16094 MS MICALLEF: Madam Chair, Commissioners, my name is Margot Micallef and I'm the Chair and CEO of Vista Radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16095 To my right is Brian Edwards who's the Vice‑Chair of Vista Radio and to my left is Tony Gardner,
our consulting engineer.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16096 Madam Chair and Commissioners, we would like to thank the Commission for the opportunity to intervene at this stage of the proceeding. We will be brief.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16097 We have focused perhaps late in the day on the CBC application gazetted as No. 27 for Nanaimo in CRTC Public ‑‑ sorry, CRTC Notice of Public Hearing 2007‑18 and not raised, however, by the Commission in its preamble for Vancouver in the same notice.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16098 The application would, if approved as gazetted, prevent the use of 104.1 megahertz in Vancouver by any of the commercial applicants for Vancouver at this hearing for a Class C station on 104.1.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16099 We do not oppose the CBC application, we would like, however, to be part of a solution that would be more productive and ensure a more efficient use of the last remaining FM frequency in Vancouver than would the improvement or replacement of an existing service by a Class B‑1 station on 104.1.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16100 We noted on pages 3 and 4 of the CBC's answer to a Commission deficiency question regarding whether the corporation had considered the use of another frequency for its Nanaimo proposal, the CBC's response was as follows:
"With respect to our proposed use of Channel 281 B‑1 for Nanaimo, we have determined that there are no other viable FM frequencies to serve this market. Other frequencies we have examined, in our assessment, would have resulted in interference to incumbent broadcasters which they, as is their right under Industry Canada's rules, were not prepared to accept." (As read)
LISTNUM 1 \l 16101 MS MICALLEF: Vista was never consulted by the CBC on any technical solution.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16102 Madam Chair, Commissioners, Vista would, in fact, be prepared to waive its rights under Industry Canada's rules and accept some minor interference to its Duncan B.C. station on Vancouver Island if it made possible the implementation of the CBC's proposal for Nanaimo while allowing the use of 104.1 in Vancouver by Vista.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16103 Vista is no stranger to the need for accommodation to maximize the efficient use of the spectrum. Less than a year ago it was denied the use of 94.1 in Powell River, in part because its proposed technical parameters were mutually exclusive with the CBC's long‑range radio plan to implement Radio One in Powell River and Radio Two in Campbell River.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16104 Similarly, Vista was denied its proposal to use 106.1 in Campbell River because Vista's proposal for a conversion to FM, it was argued, would have expanded the contours of its existing AM station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16105 In each case, Vista's application was approved in part only and Vista was required to submit an amendment to its application proposing the use of another frequency and another transmitter site.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16106 Vista applauds the Pattison Group's resourcefulness in proposing at this hearing to use 100.5 FM to accommodate its AM flip.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16107 Pattison is in the unique position to use this frequency while no one else can because Pattison can compromise its own Victoria frequency, the 104.1 frequency thereby remains available in Vancouver even as Pattison implements its AM flip.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16108 Pattison's proposal thus facilitates the efficient management of the spectrum for the greater good of the greater number.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16109 In the same spirit, Vista has examined how it could be licensed on 104.1 while, given the limited spectrum available, facilitating the CBC's proposal to better serve Nanaimo.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16110 Vista's consulting engineer, Tony Gardner, has only very recently found a technical solution that would accommodate the CBC's proposal to improve service to Nanaimo.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16111 There is evidence that the CBC could use 89.5 megahertz for its Nanaimo proposal. Currently, through the use of 89.7 megahertz, Vista serves Duncan, Chemainus and Ladysmith.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16112 Vista would be prepared to accept some slight impairment to its coverage if licensed on 104.1 in Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16113 The net result would be three successful applications in a technically congested market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16114 We have consulted with the CBC in the last 10 days and immediately upon learning of this possibility, and are prepared to work with their engineers on the spectrum utilization plan which we believe to be strongly in the public interest.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16115 We believe that we could have a full technical brief by the end of March or mid‑April at the latest.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16116 We understand the CBC's reluctance to agree at this stage that this technical solution would allow them to implement their proposal in Nanaimo. We are confident, however, as to its feasibility.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16117 We thank the Commission for hearing us and welcome your questions at this time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16118 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Cugini.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16119 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Good morning, Ms Micallef.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16120 Just to be absolutely clear, this information that you have provided us this morning would only apply to the CBC in solving that solution?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16121 MS MICALLEF: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16122 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: You were not prepared to make this type of accommodation for anybody else?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16123 MS MICALLEF: Frankly, we hadn't discussed that, so, I apologize, your question did catch me by surprise.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16124 I think at this point, without having further opportunity to discuss the matter with my colleagues, we would take the position that it is available only for the CBC.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16125 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Okay, that's fine. I just wanted that confirmation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16126 MS MICALLEF: Sure.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16127 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16128 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Just so I'm clear, you're currently serving Duncan, Chemainus and Ladysmith through 89.5; right? And what level of interference would 89.7 give you; how would it restrict your service in those areas?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16129 MS MICALLEF: We're serving Duncan, Ladysmith and Chemainus on 89.7.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16130 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Sorry, did I say...
LISTNUM 1 \l 16131 MS MICALLEF: That's fine. Yeah, and 89.5 is what we are proposing to offer to the CBC and I will ask Tony Gardner our consulting engineer to explain the nature of the impairment.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16132 MR. GARDNER: Thanks. I have done a partial design on this accommodation, I have not got to the point of completing a brief, however, the current transmission characteristics of CJSU Duncan are such that the interference would probably be objectionable and unacceptable to both parties.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16133 But I did a re‑design on moving the antenna pattern for CJSU further south which would protect the CJS ‑‑ or the CBC Nanaimo station on the adjacent frequency and I'm confident that that solution will work, at the same time protecting adjacencies both in Bellingham and in the Vancouver area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16134 I have done ‑‑ we don't have copies of them I guess ‑‑ but I'd be happy to provide these, the realistic patterns of the two stations now and proposed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16135 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16136 MS MICALLEF: In layman's terms, I would translate that to say that the signal would be impaired slightly in Ladysmith.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16137 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay. And would that affect you ‑‑ I think I know the answer to this, but would that impair you commercially in any way?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16138 MR. STANSFIELD (ph): No, it wouldn't. We don't do any retail commercial business in Ladysmith, it's a ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16139 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Duncan and the Cowichan Valley is your main commercial corridor; right?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16140 MR. STANSFIELD (ph): Absolutely, yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16141 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay, thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16142 THE CHAIRPERSON: This is quite new and we may have some more questions for you, and if we do we will come back at Phase IV to pose those questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16143 But just to make it clear in my mind, and I may not be using the right technical terms, but you are saying as in Pattison's case they're saying that they're willing to short space their own station, their own frequency for their own use of FM, thus leaving 104.1 free.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16144 By analogy, you are saying that you are willing to short space your own frequency that serves Duncan for CBC?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16145 MS MICALLEF: Correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16146 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. We will think about that one, but thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16147 MS MICALLEF: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16148 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for your presentation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16149 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16150 And now I would ask 6851916 Canada Inc. to come to the presentation table.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16151 Please introduce yourself and you have 10 minutes to make your presentation.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 16152 MR. HENNESSY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16153 Good morning. I'm Roy Hennessy, the President and General Manager of Shore 104 and I'm joined by our legal counsel, Mark Lewis, our technical consultant. Kerry Pelcher of DM Allen & Associates and our research consultant David Bray.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16154 Before we begin our discussion to our intervention pertaining to the CBC's proposed use of 104.1, we'd like to comment on yesterday's release of the Broadcasting Directorate, the Emerging Canadian Artists on Commercial Radio, good timing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16155 The Commission's research report demonstrates the problem facing Canada's emerging talent. The incumbent broadcasters' diminishing support for these artists is most evident and significant in the crucial peak listening periods.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16156 From the outset, Shore FM shaped its programming strategy with this problem in mind. Our 15 per cent condition of licence on emerging artists' airplay not only covers our entire broadcast week, but also Monday to Friday between 6:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. This condition of licence is unique in this proceeding.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16157 Based upon our review of the Commission's Public Notice, we wish to reconfirm that the licence condition as proposed would be fully consistent with the Commission's policy initiative. We look forward to the ongoing dialogue on this important subject.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16158 Now, Mr. Mark Lewis.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16159 MR. LEWIS: Now, with respect to the CBC, we had filed a written intervention on January 23rd which provides the Commission with details of our objection to the CBC's use of 104.1 on Gabriola Island to serve Nanaimo. I don't propose to, in the limited time, repeat the entirety of that intervention.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16160 In this proceeding each applicant has put forward their best proposal to serve residents of the Greater Vancouver area and provide greater exposure for Canadian music, particularly new and emerging artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16161 Yesterday, however, I was shocked as were some others in attendance by the CBC's apparent lack of concern for the preferences of Vancouver radio listeners and the many musical artists who have taken part in this proceeding.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16162 Mr. Stursberg stated that there are, in his words, 30 radio stations in Vancouver and there is no need for "another music station for a market that is well served in terms of total radio stations".
LISTNUM 1 \l 16163 I was frankly surprised by this comment to so easily dismiss the preferences expressed by thousands of local radio listeners and Canadian performing artists who have written to the Commission in support of the various musical genres proposed by Shore and other applicants.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16164 Unequivocally, the evidence shows the Vancouver audience feels they are not adequately being served by incumbent broadcasters, including CBC, relative to their programming tastes and it's not limited to just music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16165 Shore 104 and many other applicants have proposed extensive live programming. In our case, 126 hours per week of live programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16166 We have proposed investment of over 300‑million in initiatives that will act as a stimulus for programming derived from local live performances.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16167 Over seven years we have committed to invest $7‑million in new CCD initiatives, most of which will be spent in this region.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16168 The CBC in its application to use 104 for Nanaimo has proposed no local live programming, at least not for now. Approximately 28 hours a week of programming would be piped in, re‑broadcast from Victoria. Investment in local talent in Nanaimo appears to be nil. And CBC would only open a news bureau and would feed some content from Victoria ‑‑ or to Victoria.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16169 Some day perhaps, if funds are ever made available, CBC might originate some undetermined amount of live local programming from Nanaimo. No promises, no commitment, no conditions of licence, no money.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16170 Madam Chair, as the CBC selectively quoted sections of the Broadcasting Act yesterday, it's our view that the CBC's applications do not, on balance, provide the same level of benefits to radio listeners or the Canadian broadcasting system in this region as does our application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16171 You were told yesterday by CBC that 104.1 is "a very poor signal for Vancouver only covering half the market". That's a gross distortion.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16172 There is an area of possible interference, but I can tell you as the lawyer involved in the licensing of CKYE 93.1, directly involved in the negotiation of the tower rental and the construction of the station, that coverage from Mount Seymour is very good and that's the same tower where Shore FM would be located.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16173 Interference claims have been grossly exaggerated. I was with the owner of CKYE on Sunday night, we drove through the zone of possible interference listening to CKYE, there was no perceptible interference. We drove within six kilometres of the U.S. border. There stereophonic reception was outstanding.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16174 A high percentage of listeners tuning to CKYE 93.1 and a high percentage of their advertising revenue comes from this possible zone of interference that CBC dismisses.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16175 Clearly, in private broadcasting listeners are likely more apt to tune to programming content that appeals to them regardless of the signal strength or potential for possible interference.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16176 You've heard a succession of applicants who are confident that the frequency will yield adequate service to attract a significant and loyal audience in the region.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16177 This brings us to the matter of facts and research. CBC Radio One Vancouver on AM currently is enjoying some of its strongest audience deliveries in years. I refer to Table 1, demographics of CBU audience that we filed with the Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16178 In terms of its percentage share of hours tuned for all persons 12 plus, it ranks second in the market, trailing only to one other AM station, CKMW. It's grown from a 6.3 share in the fall of 2003 to its current 8.4 per cent share.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16179 There's no question that the content is geared to an older demographic, still the AM station does a better job of attracting younger listeners than does its FM counterpart. 16.5 per cent of CBU's audience is aged 12 to 34, while only 14.3 per cent of CBU FM's audience is 12 to 34.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16180 The percentage of CBU's audience age 12 to 34 has grown from 15.9 per cent in the fall of 2002, to 16.5 per cent in S‑4 2007 BBM, that's the AM station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16181 From a research standpoint, the survey of 401 listeners who offered their impression of reception quality was deeply flawed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16182 Firstly, there was no way of knowing if an FM signal would have performed any better.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16183 Secondly, radio signals of any type are impaired in the variety of areas such as underground malls, garages, basements, et cetera.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16184 Lastly, extrapolating from this data and projecting that 850,000 can't properly receive the signal is highly questionable.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16185 Current BBM numbers graphically demonstrate the station's signal strength by virtue of the fact the station is delivering outstanding, full coverage cume.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16186 Were the station to flip to FM, the full coverage reach of the station would be undoubtably negatively impacted. AM is much better equipped to deal with the surrounding terrain.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16187 Yesterday Commission Menzies asked CBC representatives for historical data to assist him in his understanding of the audience trends vis‑a‑vis an aging audience.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16188 We have provided to the Hearing Secretary BBM data which would lead the Commission to one very simple and inescapable conclusion: CBC Radio One is failing to reach younger audiences in every major market in Canada regardless whether it's technical facilities are on AM, FM, DAB, Sirius Satellite Radio or received via the Internet.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16189 On the chart listed as Table 2, CBC One AM/FM Audience Profile, on the left‑hand side we've provided audience statistics for CBU 690 AM Vancouver. Across the chart those statistics are compared with CBC's Radio One FM stations in Toronto, Ottawa, Regina and Halifax.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16190 If you look at the 16 to 24 demographic, CBC Radio One on AM in Vancouver achieves precisely the same cume as Radio One FM stations in each of the cities where it operates Radio One on FM. Radio One receives a three per cent cume.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16191 To be clear, that means in every city where it operates on FM with strong FM signals, 97 per cent of the audience 18 to 24 choose not to listen to CBC Radio One programming, 97 per cent of that younger demographic.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16192 A review of the other younger demographics on that chart reveal similar tuning patterns between CBU AM and CBC's FM stations in other cities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16193 CBC was asked yesterday whether there were alternative frequencies which could be used to provide service. CBC management professed they had no knowledge of alternatives.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16194 We find that rather strange. Perhaps they haven't read the evaluation comments on the Broadcast application submitted by Industry Canada dated February 18th, 2008 which we found on the CBC's public examination file.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16195 With respect to the use of 98.7 on Gabriola Island, I quote from the second page of that letter in the fourth paragraph of that page. The key sentence which is underlined by Industry Canada reads as follows:
"It should be noted that the Department also considers Channel 206 to be a viable channel for the CBC (although the CBC do not). However, as 254 will not interfere with any existing service, whereas 206 would interfere with the existing CBUX from Victoria, 254 is considered the better choice." (As read)
LISTNUM 1 \l 16196 MR. LEWIS: Madam Chair, Industry Canada, just like the Commission, is grappling with the shortage of frequencies in this region.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16197 You'll shortly hear from other interveners concerning possible technical alternatives.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16198 A combination of channel 206 and 98.7 could be used to provide service to both the Sunshine Coast and Nanaimo. This region, of course, is already served by CBUF, the French service from Vancouver. The number of people who would be actually affected by interference to CBUX would be minimal, possibly in the hundreds.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16199 You may wish to determine the actual audience of CBUX because this audience data is suppressed by BBM because it's so low.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16200 For your reference, CBU FM, the French service, 100,000 watts from Vancouver, has a coverage reach, full coverage of 18,100 in S‑4 of 2007. That represents a 0.2 per cent share of audience.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16201 Yesterday you asked the CBC to provide data on audience tuning trends for Vancouver. They didn't have the data on hand, but we do. We've provided a chart for the years 1995 to 2007, that's Table 3.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16202 On the left‑hand columns CBU had 2,386,000 hours tuned in 1995 and that's to 690. It's risen significantly over that period of time. In 2007 tuning was 2.83‑million hours tuned. That's not a decline on AM but an increase.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16203 And if we bore down a bit more you'll see a spike after the terrorist attacks in 2001 when Radio One audience also spiked in Toronto for CBC Radio One on FM. People in both cities were listening to news and information programs regardless of the mode of transmission.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16204 One last comment pertains to the claim that the move from AM to FM in this region will draw in a younger audience, which CBC Radio One must have lest it will, in the applicant's word, die.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16205 CBC is proposing monophonic transmission of its Radio One service on each of its proposed three transmitters. They want to repatriate a younger demographic who is used to listening to digital stereo music on iPods, the Internet and on stereophonic FM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16206 Most commercial FM stations converted to stereo in the early 1960s. Is it reasonable to believe that a monophonic FM signal is going to be more attractive to a younger audience who are listening to stereo audio on their iPods and other devices?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16207 In summation, the Broadcasting Act states:
"Programming provided by the CBC should be made available throughout Canada by the most appropriate and efficient means as resources become available for the purpose." (As read)
LISTNUM 1 \l 16208 MR. LEWIS: Members of the Commission, we respect the CBC's mandate to serve the public interest. The service is available on 690. However, we do not agree that this proposed use of 104.1 is in the public's best immediate interests, rather, it appears a frequency they wish to hold like money on deposit in escrow on the off chance that some time in the future they may change their programming strategy. And that's not truly being sensitive to the public needs.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16209 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16210 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much for your very fulsome intervention. The Panel doesn't have any questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16211 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16212 MR. LEWIS: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16213 MR. HENNESSY: Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16214 THE SECRETARY: Thank you. And now I would ask ROCK 95 Broadcasting to come to the presentation table.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 16215 MR. BINGLEY: I feel kind of lonely up here.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16216 Okay. Well, Commissioners, I'd like to point out off the top that I'm a big fan of CBC. They do a great job. CBC News World is on in our house about two hours a day. When I travel I listen to CBC Radio. Heck, I even used to work for CBC.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16217 But, despite all of this, even if I were not applying for a Vancouver licence, I would be opposed to this application and here's why.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16218 CBC has stated that 104.1 is the only frequency that they can use for Nanaimo. That is incorrect. Four AM frequencies are available. Three are unused and, of course, should you licence 88.1 for Vancouver, CBC can re‑use their existing 690 kilohertz frequency.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16219 CBC would likely argue that there are technical problems associated with using AM on the Island, ground conductivity, et cetera. But given the service area that they are after, there can be no doubt that those problems can be overcome.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16220 I'm sure that the CRTC engineers and those of Industry Canada can verify this fact.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16221 All AM solutions would provide service to Nanaimo and central Vancouver. All of CBC's objectives can be met on AM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16222 And although they may cost more to implement, that's hardly justification to deny a new FM service to the 2.5‑million residents of Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16223 You've no doubt noted that 20 per cent of the interventions by CBC listeners were in opposition to the CBC move to FM. That's because many would lose service if CBC goes to an FM only solution. An FM only solution is inappropriate for British Columbia. FM does not work well in mountainous areas, AM is better.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16224 There are many B.C. residents in remote areas who depend on AM 690 as their only radio service. I met one individual on the Island who works in logging camps and 690 is all they can get. Loggers depend upon 690 for weather forecasts and information. This individual was appalled to hear that the service might be discontinued.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16225 Numerous boaters have intervened to say that when at sea they're out of range of VHF marine weather forecasts. CBC AM is their only source for weather.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16226 This is an essential service. To take this service away from rural and marine listeners would be nothing short of disastrous.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16227 CBC should retain use of 690 to serve Nanaimo. They could do this in two ways, either utilize the present site, changing the pattern to beam a signal towards Nanaimo, or move the transmitter to Vancouver Island. Using either method, they could provide the local service to Nanaimo, maintain regional coverage to marine and rural listeners and free up 104.1 for use in Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16228 Now, while we're on that topic, let's look at the signal impairment of 104.1. There is a theoretical zone of interference due to the U.S. station which is first adjacent on the frequency. So, before I even applied for this licence, I rented a car and drove around to see if I could test that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16229 You see, here in Vancouver as the other applicant mentioned, there's RED FM which operates at 93.1 on the dial.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16230 Right beside them is a U.S. station. That station is on the same tower with the same parameters as the station that's adjacent to 104.1.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16231 What that means is, it's a great way to check it out. If it works on 93.1, it will work on 104.1.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16232 So, I drove around and checked the signal with the car and the signal was great, right up to the U.S. border. I then took a table radio, a small portable radio to simulate reception on inexpensive receivers and checked it out again and, in most areas, again, the signal was great.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16233 So, the impairment area isn't 40 per cent, it might affect at most 10 per cent of the receivers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16234 To confirm this, we spoke with the GM and station engineer of 93.1 RED FM. Both confirmed that interference is minor and does not affect their marketing plans.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16235 Now, even if we get on the air and find that the interference is worse than predicted, the obvious solution is to adjust the pattern of the interfering U.S. signal to reduce power in our direction.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16236 So, we checked with the U.S. company and they indicated that this type of negotiation is possible, although obviously there would be a lot of engineering work and a lot of negotiating before they were able to do that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16237 Now, let's talk a moment about the decline in AM tuning. That decline is simply due to the fact that the most popular music formats have moved to FM, but that doesn't mean that AM is dying.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16238 And, as you've mentioned yesterday, if you look across the country, AM stations are No. 1 and here in Vancouver they're No. 1 and No. 2.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16239 The statement that 40 per cent of listeners never tune to AM means nothing. 85 per cent of Canadians never listen to Radio One. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the service, it just reflects their listening preferences.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16240 Now to age of listeners. The fact is that talk‑based formats, by their nature, appeal to older listeners. The CBC has always appealed to older listeners and at the moment they're benefitting from the Baby Boom generation. As that demographic bulge moves into their zone, they're actually gaining listeners and that's going to make their percentage of listeners as an older percentage much higher.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16241 Now, back to Nanaimo. CBC's application shows a population within their principal marketing area of 89,000 persons. Based upon an average reach for Radio One across the country, the CBC proposal would be tuned to by approximately 13,000 listeners. A hundred per cent of those listeners could be served on AM. And CBC's filing shows that Nanaimo will also receive excellent service from 88.1, if it's approved.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16242 Their predict engineering study clearly shows this and, as CBC's engineers mentioned yesterday, FM signals will boom across the signal into Nanaimo.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16243 So, listeners in Nanaimo would receive an AM service and an FM service of which 75 per cent is duplicated. That's two frequencies.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16244 And, of course, Gabriola Island is only a few miles from Nanaimo and many FM receivers will receive great service from the back lobe of that signal. That's three frequencies.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16245 And contrary to CBC's assertions, many residents of Nanaimo already do listen to CBC Victoria on FM. So, that's a fourth signal.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16246 Residents to the north also receive service out of Comox. That's a fifth signal. Pretty good service, I'd say.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16247 Listeners are going to tune to CBC, they'll find them five spots on the dial. I think they're going to think their radios are broken. It's just going to be amazing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16248 But outside of Vancouver, in rural areas, many listeners will lose service completely if AM service is discontinued.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16249 Commissioners, I know that later today you will hear from many well‑intentioned passionate CBC listeners who want a better signal. I would suggest that for every one you see who asks for the FM service, there's another one who will lose service if CBC abandons AM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16250 So, here's the obvious solution. Approve 88.1 for Vancouver, recycle 690 for Nanaimo. The re‑use of 690 will maintain a vital service to listeners in remote areas as well as those at sea. It will make 104.1 available for use for another station, a station that will benefit Vancouver and Nanaimo residents.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16251 And one final thought. Yesterday, Mr. Stursberg said all Canadians pay for CBC, all should have access to the CBC.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16252 Well, I want to quote from one intervention, intervention No. 856. Two CBC listeners, Ray and Dorothy (10:45‑9:40)Pilman intervened against the CBC's plans. They can't get proper FM reception in their home. A move to FM and discontinuance of AM would deny them service.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16253 So, here's how they closed their letter:
"Please don't allow the CBC to take this away from us." (As read)
LISTNUM 1 \l 16254 MR. BINGLEY: So, an open question to the CBC: Given your present plans, how do you answer Mr. and Mrs. (10:45‑10:02) Pilman?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16255 That concludes our presentation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16256 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Bingley.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16257 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: I'm just curious how you would address the CBC's contention that its aging audience, as it declines, as the size of that audience just gets older and dies, more or less, that CBC is at risk of just getting older and dying?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16258 In terms of that, I mean, obviously 40 years ago 42 per cent of Canadians were under 20 and now it's 24, so that movement has already gone through, but how would you address that argument that they made?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16259 MR. BINGLEY: Well, Commissioner Menzies, that's a reality for every radio station, listeners get old and listeners pass on.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16260 In the sake of the CBC, this is really a marketing issue and a programming issue, it's not a technical issue. Marketing issues can be resolved.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16261 CBC's mentioning some markets, for example, that after they move to FM tuning went up. Well, that was accompanied by a massive marketing campaign to identify their new frequency. So, that makes tuning go up.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16262 If CBC wants younger listeners, they have to make it relevant to younger listeners, and I know they're assessing that Radio Two, for example. If you take a look at Radio One and Radio Two, the duplication of audience is like 80, 90 per cent. So, there's an opportunity there, for example, for them to change their programming strategy and make it more accessible to more Canadians.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16263 They could do more with a programming strategy, I would submit, than with technical.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16264 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16265 MR. BINGLEY: You're welcome.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16266 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Bingley, I just wanted to confirm the very last part of your intervention and your suggestion is that CBC retain 690 AM, plus 88.1 FM?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16267 MR. BINGLEY: Yes, Commissioner ‑‑ Madam Chair, I would say that if they retain 690, they could move it, put the ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16268 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16269 MR. HOOVER: ‑‑ put the Island‑based service on 690, they'd have 88.1, they'd need the Gabriola Island to augment Radio One if they wanted the Sunshine Coast to receive the Vancouver service. But, of course, the Sunshine Coast could also receive the Island service and that's an added benefit.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16270 The Island could be received all over the place, so, people from the Island travelling to the mainland could be driving around Vancouver here and get their own Island service. It's a very superior solution.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16271 THE CHAIRPERSON: Do you have any comments specifically on 98.7?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16272 MR. BINGLEY: That's the Gabriola?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16273 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16274 MR. BINGLEY: Well, yeah, I believe it's going to work into the Sunshine Coast. The reality is, I mean, you know, this is British Columbia and the topography is such, you have the valleys and the hills and it's not going to do it just by itself, the AM will augment it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16275 And I was talking to one fellow here and he said it's great they're moving to FM, but I travel a lot, so it means I've got a lousy signal wherever I travel.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16276 AM really is superior and that will help on the Sunshine Coast as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16277 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Bingley, for your intervention.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16278 MR. BINGLEY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16279 THE SECRETARY: I would now ask In House Communications to come to the presentation table.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 16280 MR. LOUGH: Madam Chair, Commissioners, Pat Lough with In‑House Communications.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16281 Honestly I don't know if there's anything I can add to what's been said. I'm impressed with the comments that have been raised.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16282 I don't often put myself in a position where I will, you know, intervene on another broadcaster's application, it's just not something I normally do, unless it impacts ‑‑ unless it impacts me.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16283 Yesterday the CBC indicated that 104.1 really was not a good signal for Vancouver and I too drove last night, made it down to White Rock and area and the comparison to 93.1, which is what the comparison is, same antenna, the 93.1 is 4.2 kilowatts, our proposed use of that frequency is 4.1 kilowatts. Very, very similar coverage. It's a good signal, I think.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16284 I don't believe the claims that 104.1 is not a good frequency for Vancouver, because I think it is.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16285 And, yes, both stations have a high‑powered first channel adjacency originating out of the U.S.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16286 As I was comparing between the staticky 106 signal and the Red FM signal, definitely Red FM has a far superior signal.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16287 Currently CBC is in control of 22 frequencies in this region. That is a lot of frequencies. That includes both Vancouver and Vancouver Island, the Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16288 I believe a lot of those frequencies were added when the spectrum really wasn't an issue. As things have developed and broadcasters have come in and proposed new applications, the management has become quite difficult.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16289 I would like to note that CBC's Class C stations are not operating at maximum parameters, as per BPR 3 rules. There may be a technical reason, but just on paper, 6.7 kilowatts for a maximum parameter of 100,000 kilowatts ‑‑ I struggle with that, especially with the use of 22 frequencies.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16290 Currently there is no requirement for a broadcaster to reuse frequencies. I believe the CBC should have to short‑space itself, as previously indicated, and reuse some frequencies.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16291 I think they can move some frequencies around. Obviously that would require Industry Canada and your approval, but I think there may be frequencies that they utilize in, I will say, Tofino, that could be possibly brought into the Nanaimo area, and then backfill Tofino with something that would be less of an impact.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16292 Industry Canada's BPR 3 rules indicate that interference over a body of water is acceptable. I guess that goes along with the short‑spacing idea that CBC, I think, should have to look at.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16293 I think that is all I am going to mention.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16294 CBC also noted that on August 31st, 2011, CHEC‑TV 6 will be on a digital platform. There will probably be opportunities there for more FM frequencies at that point. I am just speculating.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16295 If CBC does not get another FM frequency today, I think, in a few years, there potentially could be more.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16296 I think that is all I am going to say. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16297 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Lough, for your intervention.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16298 It is true that Phase II is usually very short, but I think people always have passions when it comes to the CBC, so we fully expected interventions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16299 Thank you for your participation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16300 MR. LOUGH: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16301 THE SECRETARY: I would now ask Coast 104.1 FM to come to the presentation table.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 16302 MR. KIRK: Good morning. It is still morning on the coast.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16303 I am Doug Kirk, Chairman of Coast 104.1 FM, and I have brought Steve Kassay here to supplement this presentation with a few pictures.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16304 We are appearing to oppose the CBC in its applications 2007‑1423‑9, regarding Vancouver and Gabriola Island, and 2007‑0363‑8, regarding Nanaimo.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16305 We attended the CBC's presentation yesterday to convert CBU from AM to FM by implementing three FM transmitters. One in particular, the Nanaimo proposal, is competitive with several applications filed by private broadcasters to serve the substantially larger Vancouver market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16306 During the discussion to implement the FM service, many statements and assertions were made by the CBC regarding the technical aspects of the FM Band, which we feel require clarification to be fully understood by all concerned.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16307 Therefore, we are offering the following comments, hopeful that we have found some solutions for the parties ‑‑ the CBC, private broadcast applications, and the Commission.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16308 We want to address four items in this presentation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16309 The first relates to the actual coverage of the 104.1 frequency in Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16310 The second is to discuss alternate FM frequencies to achieve the CBC's coverage objectives for Vancouver and Vancouver Island.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16311 The third is the use of a synchronous repeater.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16312 Does everybody know what a synchronous repeater is?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16313 And, finally, your mandate to allocate FM spectrum for its best use.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16314 Starting with No. 1, the actual coverage of 104.1 in Vancouver: CBC Executive Vice‑President Mr. Stursberg yesterday stated that 104.1 MHz is a good frequency for Nanaimo and a bad frequency for Vancouver, as it only covers half of the market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16315 In our view, and in the view of our consulting engineer, that is not correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16316 Our engineer, Mr. Jim Moltner, has opined as follows:
"The optimum drop‑in frequency to serve Vancouver is 104.1 MHz, Channel 281. This frequency, nonetheless, suffers a large theoretical interference zone from first adjacent U.S. operation. Experience based on the recent implementations of CKYE‑FM..."
‑‑ that is Red 93.1:
"...and CKAV‑FM 2..."
‑‑ that is the Aboriginal Voices service on 106.3:
"...both of those suffer identical theoretical interference, and the experience indicates that the interference coverage is better than predicted."
LISTNUM 1 \l 16317 That is the professional opinion of a consulting engineer, and I think that has been supplemented with the comments that Mr. Bingley made a few minutes ago, and Mr. Lewis' comments that, in fact, the coverage of both CKYE and CKAV, which have these identical theoretical interference zones, are much, much better in practice than appears on the technical projections.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16318 To be clear, these two signals transmit from exactly the same tower and will have exactly the same power.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16319 In our application, we used with confidence the 3 millivolt projection of the signals, and we are confident that 104.1 can achieve excellent coverage of over 2.1 million people in the Vancouver area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16320 Secondly, alternate FM frequencies: Included in our submission is a report by our consulting engineer, Mr. Jim Moltner, which evaluates several alternatives to the CBC without using the 104.1 frequency.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16321 On the screen is the CBC's own realistic projections for 88.1, and the dark green area is the high‑strength signal. As you can see, it provides terrific coverage throughout Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16322 If you look even to the Nanaimo area, where its actual coverage ‑‑ although better than predicted, but its actual coverage ‑‑ 88.1 delivers a 3 millivolt or better signal to Nanaimo.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16323 You can also see there that terrain shielding limits the coverage to the Sunshine Coast.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16324 As others have mentioned, 98.7 can be used in Nanaimo, and used to distinctively serve Nanaimo.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16325 Without going on and on, another channel, 89.1, Channel 206, could also be used to cover the Sunshine Coast.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16326 So there are lots of alternatives ‑‑ and this is to counter Mr. Stursberg's stance that no other solution is available to serve Nanaimo than 104.1.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16327 I think it also responds to Commissioner Williams' question, "Are there other frequencies to serve Nanaimo," to which, I believe, Mr. Carnovale said "None", and we say, with confidence, that there are.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16328 One other solution that may provide yet another option is to use a synchronous repeater on 88.1, in that terrain shielded area that was up on the previous slide.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16329 88.1 could be used to cover the Sunshine Coast as well as Vancouver, because, basically, the two signals are separated by the terrain of the area and won't have significant interference from each other.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16330 It is a very efficient technical solution.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16331 Finally, the best use of the spectrum: The Commission is charged ‑‑ and I guess this may be an unenviable task for you this week, because a lot of people have been asking ‑‑ with choosing the best use of the Canadian broadcast spectrum.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16332 The use of 104.1 in Vancouver by a private broadcaster, in our view, would provide a dependable service for over 2.1 million people. This would make possible the realization of the substantial benefits associated with virtually every applicant's proposal before you this week, and we think the use of it by a private broadcaster is much superior than using it in the Nanaimo area to serve, at a maximum, 89,000 people, with a service that is about three‑quarters duplicated, and the Victoria service could be put in there by other means.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16333 We hope these suggestions clarify and add some additional information for you on solutions. I think, at the end of the day, clearly, there are other alternative options available to the CBC, including 88.1, 98.7, and 89.1 for use in Nanaimo. If, in fact, it is viewed that the AM service has to go, there are other FM alternatives without depriving Vancouver of a very important and valuable channel.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16334 We have a moment if you have questions of us. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16335 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr. Kirk, for the time you took to intervene. We have no questions at this point.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16336 MR. KIRK: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16337 THE SECRETARY: I would now ask the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation to come to the presentation table.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16338 You have 10 minutes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16339 Thank you.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 16340 MR. CARNOVALE: Good morning, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission and Commission Staff. My name is Ray Carnovale, and I am Vice‑President and Chief Technology Officer for CBC Radio Canada.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16341 With me today is Martin Levert, Engineering Strategy and Planning, with my group, and Rob Scarth, CBC's Director of Regulatory Affairs.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16342 We are here to voice our opposition to the proposed use of Frequency 89.3 MHz, Channel 207, in Vancouver, by Mr. Frank Torres. We do not contest or comment on the merits of the application that has been filed by Mr. Torres, only the proposed technical parameters.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16343 The issue at stake is about ensuring that the people of British Columbia continue to be able to receive the service of Espace musique.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16344 In Decision 2002‑02, the CRTC expected La chaîne culturelle, now Espace musique, to extend its service coverage to at least 50 percent of the French‑speaking population of each province by the end of the licence term.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16345 Following this decision, we applied for licences in Vancouver and Victoria. The licences were awarded, and we have met and exceeded the expectation. Espace musique now covers 66 percent of the total population of British Columbia, and 62 percent of the francophone population of this province.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16346 In that same decision, the Commission stated:
"For many Canadians, CBC French‑language radio is a highly prized component of the public broadcaster's service, one that must be preserved at all costs and continually improved. It creates a space for French‑language expression within Canada's radio landscape."
LISTNUM 1 \l 16347 We completely agree. Once implemented, our goal is always to maintain a standard of reception quality and to protect and enhance that reception quality, wherever necessary and wherever possible.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16348 The application before the Commission for the use of 89.3 MHz, Channel 207, in Vancouver, will cause interference in the reception area of Espace musique's Victoria transmitter, both on the mainland and on the island.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16349 The proposed technical parameters for this application are based on the assumption that the zones of interference created through the reception of the Victoria Espace musique service, CBUX‑FM 1, are mitigated by the coverage overlap from our Vancouver
Espace musique service.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16350 That assumption is wrong.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16351 In the past, CBC, as an incumbent broadcaster, has often agreed with the argument set forth by some applicants that an interference zone created through a specific coverage of one of its radio services can be covered off by another one carrying the same service, because the overall network coverage of the radio service in question remains the same.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16352 That is not the case here.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16353 There are situations where the overlap and coverage is necessary to overcome coverage deficiencies within a protected contour.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16354 In such situations, while a map will show overlap, the story in the field is different.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16355 We have such a situation here between the coverage of our two Espace musique transmitters in Vancouver and Victoria. We know this from all of the field surveys we have had to carry out in the area over the past six years or so.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16356 The overlap in coverage from Vancouver and Victoria are complementary in several scattered locations over the island of Vancouver and over the mainland.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16357 Adding the presence of a second adjacent frequency into the mix, in a fashion that does not meet the protection requirements, will result in the loss of the Espace musique service for some residents.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16358 There is no spectrum optimization if, in the end, there is a loss of coverage and the listeners are disenfranchised.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16359 By licensing the use of Frequency 89.3 MHz, Channel 207, in Vancouver, the CRTC will create a permanent interference problem for Espace musique that can never be reversed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16360 To be fair to Mr. Torres, we recognize that, through Mr. Torres' consultant, great efforts have been made to minimize the damage to our coverage. Unfortunately, we feel that minimizing the damage is not good enough. There should be no damage at all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16361 The Commission has to decide whether or not to grant the authority to use this frequency in Vancouver. If it does so on the basis of the parameters proposed, then our Espace musique service will be impacted, and the quality of reception reduced.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16362 If it does so on the basis of parameters that we would find acceptable, then the frequency probably would not be practical for the service proposed by Mr. Torres.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16363 We appreciate your attention and would be pleased to answer any questions you have.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16364 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for your very clear position on 89.3. We received a lot of information, obviously, during this phase on your proposal.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16365 We thank you for your intervention in this instance, and your time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16366 MR. CARNOVALE: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16367 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair. This completes Phase II.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16368 We will now proceed to Phase III, in which intervenors appear ‑‑ and the order is set out in the agenda ‑‑ to present their interventions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16369 For the record, intervenors South Asian Broadcasting, George Szanto, Ryan Donn, David Hoerl, and Gabriel Mark Hasselbach have informed us that they will not be appearing at the hearing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16370 I would now call Michael Norman, Andrea Reimer, Alice Wong and Elaine Bomberry to appear as a panel and present their intervention.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16371 We will start with the presentation of Elaine Bomberry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16372 You have 10 minutes for your presentation. Thank you.
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 16373 THE SECRETARY: Ms Bomberry isn't in the room at the moment, so we will proceed with Andrea Reimer.
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 16374 THE SECRETARY: Alice Wong?
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 16375 THE SECRETARY: Michael Norman.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 16376 MR. NORMAN: Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16377 Good morning to the Commission. It is my pleasure to be here today in support of The Planet, 104.1.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16378 I am a musician here in Vancouver, and with me today are a number of local musicians. I will introduce them in a moment.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16379 We come from a variety of musical styles, but what brings us together here is to tell you that we want and need The Planet, 104.1.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16380 I am a session musician and music producer, meaning that I play with lots of other bands and musicians in a variety of styles.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16381 I am a guitarist, keyboardist, saxophonist and bass player, and I have played in numerous styles of music, including rock, blues, jazz, country, and even with world beat musicians.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16382 Sitting next to me, in the grey shirt, is my friend Curtis Blaine. Curtis is a country, folk and pop artist here in Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16383 Sitting beside me is Shalina Kumar. She is a wonderful pianist, who writes her own music in a unique style that blends pop, rock, blues and world beat.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16384 Beside us here are Vasou and Govinda Clayton, The Ghost Brothers, who play ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16385 THE CHAIRPERSON: Excuse me, Mr. Norman, I am sorry to interrupt. For our stenographer, perhaps you could spell the names, please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16386 MR. NORMAN: Of course. Shalina Kumar, her name is spelled S‑H‑A‑L‑I‑N‑A, and the last name is K‑U‑M‑A‑R.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16387 For The Ghost Brothers, Vasou is V‑A‑S‑O‑U, and Govinda is G‑O‑V‑I‑N‑D‑A, and their last name is Clayton.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16388 The Ghost Brothers play a mix of reggae and other world beat music, a very unique blend.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16389 There is an incredible diversity of music being made in this city. Every night, in all parts of the city, there are blues players, world beat musicians, fusion artists, singer‑songwriters, and alternative pop and rock artists performing to a wide range of audiences.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16390 The Vancouver Folk Festival and the Burnaby Blues and Roots Festival draw huge crowds to hear both local players and the best from the rest of Canada and around the world.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16391 A look at the lineups of the two festivals demonstrates how diverse the tastes of Vancouver and the surrounding community music fans are.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16392 At the 2006 Folk Festival, artists like James Keelaghan and the New Lost City Ramblers performed beside blues artists Indudi(ph) Unaquilloo(ph), featured Madagascar Slim, world beat artists such as Mighty Popo and Uranana(ph) Whabitatana(ph), and alternative soft artists, such as Jane Siberry and Feist.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16393 The festival attracted 30,000 people over three days.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16394 Last August 10th, the Burnaby Blues and Roots Festival featured blues artists like Koko Taylor, James Cotton, The Mud Bay Blues Band, and they played alongside Cajun artists such as Beaujolais, soul singers like James Hunter, Otis Clay, and gospel artists, as well as bands like Los Lonely Boys.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16395 This eclectic mix is found very much on this panel, and I would like to introduce Curtis Blaine to speak more about this.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16396 MR. BLAINE: Thanks, Mike.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16397 I am an independent recording artist. I moved to Vancouver from Alberta about 20 years ago. I have had a number of my videos aired on CMT, and have played in a variety of venues around town.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16398 I have also had radio airplay in the past, but it has not been enough to reach as many fans as I would like, which is why I am here supporting The Planet, 104.1, today.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16399 The commitment to artist development that The Planet is promising would have an outstanding impact on artists like myself, my friends, and others here in Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16400 I also know Suki Badh on a personal level, and I am very proud of his many contributions to our community, including his many chair positions, coaching soccer, to simply cheering on his nephew in a hockey team which my son is also a part of.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16401 He is a strong role model and has welcomed me and my family into his home on numerous occasions, and I support his application wholeheartedly.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16402 Shalina.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16403 MS KUMAR: Thank you very much, Curtis.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16404 My name is Shalina Kumar, and I am a singer‑songwriter and pianist from Vancouver. I feel that The Planet, 104.1 FM, would be an absolutely wonderful way to showcase my talent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16405 My album is coming out in August 2008, and I think it would be an absolutely wonderful venue, especially because they support us so much financially, as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16406 I have a Fijian‑Indian background, so I speak Fiji and Hindi, and my musical style includes blues, world beat, and the Indian style of music. So it is a mix and it is a fusion.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16407 I feel that all of the radio stations right now, locally ‑‑ it is kind of hard to get that kind of music played on the radio. It's a bit difficult.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16408 As well, I have recorded a number of my compositions, which are ready to go and be played on the radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16409 My friends, and those I play music with, come from a wide range of backgrounds, including East and South Asian, as well as those born in Vancouver from western backgrounds. We listen to pop, rock, blues, and many other styles of music, including those that come from our own ethnic heritage.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16410 I think that a new radio station that blends rock and contemporary and blues and world ‑‑ I think that would be a phenomenal way to express what Vancouver has to offer in terms of artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16411 All right. Next to Mr. Clayton...
LISTNUM 1 \l 16412 MR. CLAYTON: Thank you very much, Shalina.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16413 Good morning to the CRTC, and thank you very much for this opportunity to speak.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16414 I am here today with my brother Govinda. Together we are The Ghost Brothers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16415 We have the same kind of eclectic background as Shalina, born of a Black father and an Italian mother. We have lived many places throughout the world, including India for a few years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16416 We have been in Vancouver for a number of years, and the city has shown its diversity, and we feel like we have added to it by being here.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16417 My brother plays guitar. I play flute. Our music is a mixture of reggae, rock and world beat.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16418 Our career has just recently taken quite an upturn. A highlight for us was that we recently sang the National Anthem at a Canucks‑Oilers game under two weeks ago.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16419 We are also, currently, working on our first CD release through a deal with Hipposonic Records, which is a local record company that has just begun with Hipposonic Studio and Mushroom Studio, a well‑known studio in town.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16420 You probably saw a bit of us on the DVD that The Planet played when they presented their application the other day.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16421 One problem for us is that we have found that we don't fit any station format in Vancouver. We are not classic rock, mainstream, smooth jazz, AC, or any of the other pigeon holes that the current commercial radio choices operate in.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16422 A station that mixes alternative adult rock with folk, blues, reggae, and a fusion of the music we play, and that Shalina plays, and that many of our fellow musicians play nowadays ‑‑ it is a very mixed genre. It takes a bit of everything and individuals apply it in their own artistic format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16423 We feel that The Planet will thoroughly support a diverse style of music, and us, and our intentions of being on the radio and being heard.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16424 We know many musicians in this city, and there are many different styles out there, and there are a lot of people just like us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16425 We like what we have heard, but we don't like to be fed a diet of only blues, or world beat, or alternative rock, or classic rock. With the wide menu available to us here, we should not be limited in the choices of what we can hear.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16426 We need airplay support, we need on‑air promotion, as well as financial support, and we feel that The Planet will provide them all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16427 All of us in this group support the idea of a new and diverse radio station like The Planet 100 percent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16428 Thank you so much for your time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16429 MR. NORMAN: Just to summarize, one of the greatest things about Vancouver is that it is just a melting pot. It is diverse in its ethnicity, in all the peoples who live here, and I think that The Planet, 104.1, would be a wonderful reflection of that diversity.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16430 We appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16431 MS BOMBERRY: Good morning, Madam Chair of the CRTC. My name is Elaine Bomberry. On behalf of The Planet's intervenors, I want to say that we are honoured to be presenting here today on the traditional territories of the Squamish, Musqueam and Tsleil‑Waututh First Nations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16432 I am Ojibway Kiuga(ph) from Six Nations on the Grand River Territory in southern Ontario, but I have been living on the Capilano Reserve at the Squamish Nation for the past two years, and I am quite honoured to be living on their territory.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16433 Originally I was going to appear here today with my partner, veteran blues man Murray Porter, but he got a gig in Ontario, so he is at the airport going back east.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16434 I would like to tell you a bit about both myself and Murray, and why we support The Planet's application for a new FM station here in Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16435 I have been active behind the scenes in Aboriginal performing arts and media for 20 years of glorious poverty.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16436 I started with CKRZ‑FM at the Six Nations First Nations community in southwestern Ontario.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16437 I was on the founding board and a producer/host of my own radio show for eight years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16438 Later, I was involved with JUMP‑FM in Toronto. JUMP‑FM was a radio station that just ran for four days in 2002, during the Aboriginal Voices Festival. We broadcast from the downtown festival with live concerts, interviews of performers, artists and participants.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16439 The radio station created quite a buzz, both in our own community and in the larger community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16440 Subsequently, I became the first Canadian Content Talent Development Coordinator for Aboriginal Voices Radio Network. With a little budget, I was still able to make a good deal of headway, initiating the Aboriginal Voices Concert Series, with a showcase in the City of Toronto for Aboriginal Day, right at City Hall.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16441 I am also an avid music fan. In fact, in 1994 I worked with the Canadian Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences ‑‑ CARAS ‑‑ to develop the Aboriginal music category with Buffy Sainte‑Marie and Curtis Johnnie. And I was the first Aboriginal person on the Board of CARAS.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16442 I have a particular love for the blues, from my own taste, and partly through my association with Murray.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16443 Murray Porter is a veteran blues performer. In fact, he has been playing the blues for almost 30 years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16444 In 2003, he was a nominee for the Juno Award for Aboriginal Recording of the Year.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16445 This past September he opened a concert for blues legends Etta James and BB King.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16446 Both of us are active in the Aboriginal Peoples Television Network in a program called "Res Blues", which showcases Aboriginal blues musicians and comedians.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16447 I am a producer/writer/host of Season 1 and Season 2, and Murray is also a co‑writer with me.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16448 Our second season starts on March 8th on APTN, and I hope you get a chance to check it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16449 Plug, plug ‑‑ we are very proud of it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16450 We are here today because we really like the emphasis of the proposal by Suki Badh, Jim McLaughlin and Liz Janik. There are a number of features that we like.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16451 Both Murray and I love the blues, but find it difficult to find it in any amounts on radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16452 Not only will The Planet provide a weekly blues show, it will be with a 40 percent commitment to specialty music which they will provide throughout their schedule.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16453 They have also committed to 40 percent Canadian content, both in popular music categories and in specialty music, and they will devote half of this to emerging artists. This will mean real opportunities for emerging Canadian artists in all categories, in all parts of the station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16454 And there is the fact that they will provide a weekly program on Aboriginal music and events, hosted by Brian Wright‑McLeod, a veteran Aboriginal radio producer.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16455 Brian has a comprehensive knowledge of our music and will be a good bridge to introduce us to Aboriginal and other audiences.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16456 The mix of Aboriginal music in the regular flow will give our artists an exposure to large mainstream audiences that doesn't exist now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16457 When Murray is heard as another artist beside blues players like BB King, adult rockers like Van Morrison, or folk icons like Bruce Cockburn, it gives his music a platform that helps people realize the quality of his music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16458 The Independent Music Awards also include an Aboriginal music category, with real cash, which is always really good for artists, which helps them survive on their music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16459 There will also be a compilation CD that will give them something to use as a calling card for booking agents, managers and record companies.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16460 I hope you grant the people of Vancouver the exciting new sound that The Planet will deliver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16461 Thank you, meegwich, nawey(ph).
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 16462 THE SECRETARY: Can you please state your name?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16463 MR. CHIU: Kenny Chiu.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16464 THE SECRETARY: One second, please.
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 16465 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Chiu, I think we know each other.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16466 MR. CHIU: Probably. I have a horrible mind.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16467 Pardon me. Probably.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16468 Through success, maybe?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16469 THE CHAIRPERSON: No. Are you not Kenny Kam Wing Chiu?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16470 MR. CHIU: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16471 THE CHAIRPERSON: We are second‑cousins.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16472 MR. CHIU: Yes!
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 16473 MR. CHIU: You know, the last name doesn't ring a resemblance.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16474 THE CHAIRPERSON: I know. I'm sorry, I have to disclose this.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16475 MR. CHIU: That's probably why.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16476 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16477 MR. CHIU: Sorry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16478 THE CHAIRPERSON: I can't hear you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16479 Our mothers are first‑cousins.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16480 We immigrated to Canada when we were quite young, and haven't really been ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16481 The last time I saw you and your wife was 10 years ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16482 MR. CHIU: Ten or 12 years ago, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16483 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but I recognize you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16484 I'm sorry, I cannot hear you, but I will turn it over to legal counsel.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16485 It's very good to see you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16486 MR. CHIU: It's good to see you, too.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 16487 MS PINSKY: As I understand it, you were appearing to read on behalf of one of the intervenors.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16488 MR. CHIU: That is correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16489 MS PINSKY: Perhaps we could just take the intervenor's statement, and then we will have it on the record.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16490 MR. CHIU: It is blended with my own comments, as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16491 MS PINSKY: We didn't have you on the list of appearing intervenors.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16492 MR. CHIU: I could just submit the statement.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16493 MS PINSKY: I think it would be preferable if we could have Alice Wong, who was the intervenor identified in advance, and perhaps take Alice Wong's statement.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16494 If right now that isn't possible because her remarks are intertwined with your own, perhaps we could just have a separate statement made by Alice Wong.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16495 MR. CHIU: Okay. To be submitted afterwards?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16496 MS PINSKY: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16497 MR. CHIU: Okay. We can do that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16498 MS PINSKY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16499 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16500 Now we will hear the next intervenor, Andrea Reimer.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16501 MS REIMER: Good morning, Commissioners, and thank you for the opportunity to make the views of the Western Canada Wilderness Committee known to you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16502 One of the best features of the CRTC and its process is the opportunity you give to people like us and all of the other intervenors to have some input into important decisions that affect all of our lives. I wish that more of our public institutions, particularly those related to environmental policy, had the same sort of opportunity.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16503 I am Andrea Reimer, and I am here today as the Executive Director of the Western Canada Wilderness Committee to speak on behalf of our 32,000 members living in Canada, many of whom live right here in the Lower Mainland.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16504 We were founded in 1980, and have offices in four provinces.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16505 We are, as an organization, dedicated to saving wilderness and wildlife.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16506 In all of our work we are inspired and informed by the wild places that we seek to protect.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16507 Our programs focus on five priority areas: protecting Canada's wild lands; safeguarding Canada's endangered wildlife; defending Canada's public lands, such as parks; keeping the Pacific Coast wild; and supporting healthy communities, which includes programs related to reducing toxic pollution and dealing with climate change.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16508 Our mission includes informing Canadians on these key issues. We believe that when Canadians are informed about the dangers to the environment, they will make better decisions that will lead policy‑makers, also, to make better decisions for our environment.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16509 The media, obviously, plays a very important role in our ability to spread this word, but, unfortunately, we have to put in a great deal of resources right now to receive media coverage on environmental issues.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16510 In particular, commercial radio in Vancouver, while they might have health, lifestyle, travel, business ‑‑ and there is a regular feature on our main radio station here about DVDs that you can watch ‑‑ there is no regular programming committed to providing opportunities for people working in scientific or environmental communities to be heard, yet public opinion polls show that concerns about the environment ring high in the consciousness of British Columbia residents, especially here in the Lower Mainland.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16511 Too little information gets to them about what these issues are, and, perhaps most importantly, very little information gets to them about what they can do at a community level to deal with these issues.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16512 Without that kind of information, people end up feeling an overwhelming sense of powerlessness to make change in the face of what they are seeing as enormous problems.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16513 The Planet proposes a daily series of programs that will help address this lack, with information about the issues, with practical suggestions to effect change in things that each of us can do in our daily lives, as well as information on technologies and products that are an alternative to the more toxic choices that we all too often make.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16514 We also think that the Annual Green and Music Fair that The Planet is proposing is a wonderful technique to marry entertainment and information in a way that is user friendly and allows people to participate in learning about the environment and making good choices.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16515 Their proposals to lead by example by building the first green radio station in Canada, both in the use of the materials they will use in the building they are proposing and the choice of transportation for their station, can also provide leadership to their listeners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16516 It is not surprising to me that a station with Suki Badh as the controlling shareholder would make these kinds of commitments. Mr. Badh has already shown an interesting commitment in this area. For example, he sits on the Environmental Advisory Committee to the City of Richmond.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16517 He is also comfortable in both the ethnic communities in Vancouver ‑‑ and I have to say, as someone who has worked for 16 years in the Lower Mainland to educate people about environmental issues, it is still very much a White, upper/middle‑class issue that needs to include more of the ethnic communities in our region.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16518 Mr. Badh has a history of working in those communities, and in the larger community, bringing the message of environmental responsibility to both.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16519 I also know Mr. Badh's community involvement in a number of other areas, and The Planet, Vancouver, has committed dollars and resources to supporting Vancouver's arts and cultural community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16520 As the other members of this panel state and demonstrate in their musical styles, this is a very diverse city. Aboriginal people, people from a variety of Asian countries, and other third language communities are leaders in our communities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16521 It seems extremely appropriate to me that a mainstream English‑language radio station have the kind of local ownership that is sensitive to the multicultural communities in our region that Suki brings.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16522 But I also realize that good intentions alone do not guarantee success. I can speak from my own experience in running a non‑profit organization.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16523 Suki has recruited a group of professionals with strong experience in radio. With this team in place, supported by the financial resources that he can bring to the project, we can expect The Planet to be a successful radio station, bringing together a diverse coalition of listeners that reflects our region.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16524 For us at the Wilderness Committee, this is an excellent community to reach out to, and one that is among the most receptive to our message.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16525 Therefore, I urge you to license The Planet to serve Vancouver and the Lower Mainland.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16526 Thank you for your time today.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16527 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for your interventions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16528 I will ask Commissioner Cugini to lead the questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16529 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Whoever thought a CRTC hearing would be a forum for a family reunion.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16530 Never let it be said that we don't provide some variety.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 16531 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: I have a couple of questions, primarily for the artists at the table.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16532 You are the demographic group, you are the generation that supposedly doesn't listen to radio, that doesn't need radio to have access to music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16533 We consistently hear that five years ago there was one venue to get music, and now there are as many as 10 or 15, and it's growing every day.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16534 Why do you think The Planet is going to change that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16535 MR. NORMAN: I think that radio is still a vibrant medium to be listening to music on and getting information. I think it will be a long ways off ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16536 I can't really see a time when radio will not be around.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16537 There is a diversity in this city, which is one of the things that makes it so great, and I love The Planet's agenda, in that they are not pigeonholing into one sort of particular style of music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16538 And I think that the accessibility through radio, you know there are still lots of people who drive around in cars that don't have, you know, access to new technology. I mean it's a foundation for the place to listen to, you know, different types of programming and it's always going to be ‑‑ it's always going to be there or will be there at least for several generations to come. I think it's definitely an important platform to have.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16539 So I hope that's answering your question. I'm not ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16540 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: I mean I'm really just ‑‑ it's not ‑‑ there is no right or wrong answer here.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16541 This is really a discussion based on your experience as artists and, in particular, in this community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16542 You know, we have all heard the example of the Arctic Monkeys, right; their music. They became known because of the internet. They just won the Brit award for the second year in a row. They didn't need radio to launch their career or they didn't ‑‑ not that they didn't need. Sorry, I am going to rephrase that. They didn't use radio to launch their career. They used the new technology.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16543 So it really is a question of both access to music as well as your access to your audience and why do you think The Planet in particular is going to bring back that opportunity for you to listen to the music you want access to and to launch your careers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16544 MS KUMAR: I would actually like to add to that, if you don't mind.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16545 I know that a lot of my friends when they talk to me, like they always want to know, "How do I find out about local artists? Where do I go?"
LISTNUM 1 \l 16546 And I know a lot of the artists locally they don't have the money and everything to promote themselves as much. And I think that a local station with, you know, local artists and have all their shows and every way to promote themselves to the various venues in Vancouver would be awesome. And you know people would actually start coming to the shows.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16547 Because I know as an artist it's hard to promote yourself if you have a limited budget and I do know that there are like students at my school, local students who support their local radio stations at the colleges and the campuses and things. So I think it would be a phenomenal idea personally.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16548 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16549 MR. NORMAN: And I think it's just another road to lead you to ‑‑ well, you know, there is other mediums to get your music out there but it definitely helps to have every advantage that you can. Radio is another advantage and it always seems to be ‑‑ I don't know, for people of my generation it is the default place to go to, to look for music you know.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16550 MS KUMAR: Definitely.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16551 MR. NORMAN: Anybody else?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16552 MR. BLAINE: I just feel it's the combination that they are providing with developing, supporting and promoting it all in one package. I think that's very unique and that's what has got me.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16553 MR. GOVINDA CLAYTON: Sorry. What you were asking about why our age group really doesn't listen to the radio, is I find if you were to turn on the radio last year and you were to flip through all the stations you would hear all the same songs almost that you are hearing this year.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16554 And it's been kind of just a redundant and most people of my age group they just don't listen to the radio because it's just the same stuff. There is nothing new. If you listen to one station it's the same kind of music playing all day. You end up with kind of a sore finger just flipping, trying to find something different. Oh, this is nice, and then you have got to keep flipping.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16555 So if there was a station that just got ‑‑ and if you talk to young people nowadays and you ask them, "What kind of music do you listen to?" there is not probably one person out there that's going to say, "I just listen to rock music; I just listen to hip hop music".
LISTNUM 1 \l 16556 People, the youth, there is just a wide range of sounds that they like to hear and with all the stations that are available for them to listen to it's either they are going to get a sore finger or they are just not going to listen to the radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16557 So what The Planet wants to provide is a variety so people our age will start listening to radio again. It's not like it's a lost hope. It's just that there is nothing there for us to really want to listen to. We have heard Led Zeppelin a lot. I have all their CDs. I don't really need to listen to them on the radio anymore.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16558 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Well, thank you. Oh, please go ahead.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16559 MS BOMBERRY: Oh, thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16560 I just also wanted to add aboriginal music is heard very few and far between on any kind of commercial radio in this country. So the fact that The Planet is going to be incorporating aboriginal music, traditional and contemporary throughout the various formats ‑‑ because aboriginal music is going in every direction these days. We have folk artists, we have pop artists; we have blues artists, traditional.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16561 So we are not going to be pigeonholed into one hour a week on this station. That our artists would be part of the regular format through all the different genres is very exciting for aboriginal recording artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16562 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16563 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Well, thank you very much for your answers. That was very helpful.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16564 Thank you, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16565 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Just one and then one quick question for I guess the Ghost Brothers or any other artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16566 We have heard a lot of what you just said in terms of the critiquing of the market here this week and I don't suppose that's terribly unusual to the incumbents. But in your view why has that happened?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16567 Why in a market as ‑‑ in a city as cosmopolitan as this is this lack of musical diversity on the radio? Why is there a lack of musical diversity in a market as cosmopolitan as this in your view?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16568 MR. NORMAN: Well, from a layman I think that a lot of programs over think or a lot of maybe the agendas of radio stations over think what it is that their audience wants to hear. I think sometimes if ‑‑ you know, I heard these stories you know early ‑‑ well, I guess you know from the fifties to the seventies about how it wasn't so much the stations that would program the music but more of the disc jockeys of the day who would say, "Check this out. This is a great new record. I want you people to hear it" and they were the ones that would kind of make the stars.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16569 And I think offering up a wide variety of music and letting the audience sort of decide for themselves what they like and they don't like and also not having a station which ‑‑ or not having programmers which ‑‑ see what I think these days is that a lot of the stations do focus in too much on trying to get a target audience. But I think that the audience should be maybe given a little more credit for having a wider diet of music that they like to listen to.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16570 I think maybe that's why a lot of the stations are, you know, maybe not getting the audience that they should just because they do ‑‑ or they don't diversify enough. They stick to too much of one little ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16571 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay, and then just for some feedback purposes is there, apart from this application process, but in general or specifically is there something we could do or perhaps just as important stop doing that would help?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16572 MR. NORMAN: I don't know if I am qualified to answer. Anybody?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16573 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Like I said there is ‑‑ and like Commissioner Cugini said, there is no right or wrong answer. Just tell us the truth.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 16574 MR. NORMAN: For me I would be here all day trying to think of an answer and babbling all night.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16575 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay. No, that's fine. That's fine, just looking for some input.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16576 If anybody ‑‑ yes, please go ahead.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16577 MS KUMAR: Yes, well, Vancouver I have noticed it has so much multicultural talent and so many things, so many good things to offer. But still I find, you know, artists they like, "Oh, let's go to Toronto. Let's go to the States to do our music and try to get bigger over there".
LISTNUM 1 \l 16578 And I feel that Vancouver has such a great way to promote all these local artists and to promote all the talent by means ‑‑ there are other venues and other avenues that do that. But to have a radio station to do it the same way that would be wonderful because like everyone was saying, the Brothers were saying, that it's so hard to have one of your songs being played on the radio because they have so many restrictions and they have that circle of songs that they always want to play. And I find that a lot of those songs ‑‑ like I am a fan of some of those songs as well but a lot of them come from the States as well as Toronto and Vancouver is not being as well represented.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16579 So I feel that a radio station over here would be absolutely wonderful promoting local talent. And Vancouver is growing too, you know, with the Olympics and so many shows and so many people coming down here. It's kind of a shame to have all the artists want to run over to Toronto or run over to the U.K. or run over to the States and do the same thing there, so yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16580 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: It's always a shame when someone has to go to Toronto, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16581 MS KUMAR: It really is.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 16582 MS KUMAR: All the snow and everything.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16583 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: My last question is for the Brothers. Who won the game between the Canucks and the ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16584 MR. GOVINDA CLAYTON: Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16585 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Oh, good, you will be back.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16586 MR. VASOU CLAYTON: 4‑2.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16587 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Good, you will be back. Thanks.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 16588 THE CHAIRPERSON: I just have a couple of questions, firstly directed to the Ghost Brothers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16589 I was just wondering how did that happen, is it an overstatement to characterize that as a break, your singing the national anthem at the game? Would you consider that a break?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16590 MR. VASOU CLAYTON: It's certainly a break in a way but it's more of an opportunity, you know, to be able to perform in front of that many people and it's televised on CBC as well. You know, it was quite the challenge and we basically had a week prior when they said, "Okay, you guys are singing the national anthem."
LISTNUM 1 \l 16591 I am sure most of the people in this room know it but a lot don't. So we had to fill in the blanks, you know, learn it. It was quite the opportunity.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 16592 MR. VASOU CLAYTON: You know, we feel that we have proven ourselves by embracing that and taking the challenge and we did it. And here we are now. Bryan Adams couldn't even remember the words.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16593 THE CHAIRPERSON: How did that happen? Did radio have anything to do with it?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16594 MR. VASOU CLAYTON: No, this was just through the years of working hard and polishing ‑‑ polishing our act and our songs and basically working it to a point where it's sharp, just people around us. You know, it just happened through support of people around us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16595 THE CHAIRPERSON: So basically word of mouth through your own network?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16596 MR. VASOU CLAYTON: Yes, their own ‑‑ our own work. You know, I am sure if we would have been ‑‑ like The Planet plans on playing 20 percent just B.C. artists. Something like that would be great for us, for everyone at this table because that would provide even more opportunity for other people to get the same sort of, you know, opportunity as us basically.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16597 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. And the next question is just generally directed at the artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16598 Is it ‑‑ I don't expect you to have looked at all of the other formats and analyze it. You are not paid to do that. But is it the world beat element of The Planet station that you think will be particularly helpful for you, or what aspect of this particular application do you find most relevant to your career? Do you find that element or can you find it in any of the other applications?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16599 MR. VASOU CLAYTON: None that I have reviewed or that I have seen. I haven't ‑‑ you know, I wasn't here for every minute of this hearing. But I can tell you from what I do understand from what The Planet is going to offer, the strongest points and, again, double and triple this point is its diversity and the kind of music it's going to play and allowed to be played; its commitment to 40 percent Canadian talent and 20 percent B.C. talent. It's just you can't beat that ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16600 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16601 MR. VASOU CLAYTON: ‑‑ for an artist on the ground level trying to break into the scene.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16602 And I also want to add to the first question about radio versus the new formats of being promoted. Even online the same artists, the same big money corporations are throwing the same energy at the same artists. So no matter where you go you see the same faces and you hear the same thing. There are, as you know, a little more ‑‑ there is some more opportunity for ground level artists to breakthrough online now but it's still ‑‑ it has just got the mass ‑‑ the mass machine has pretty much taken over that as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16603 So you know radio is still a very viable format for us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16604 THE CHAIRPERSON: Does anyone have anything more to add about what is specific to this applicant's station that is particularly relevant to your career to develop?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16605 MS KUMAR: Well, I think it is very multicultural and I think it's a great representation of Vancouver because it embraces all the cultures. I mean, they have the Indian. They have South Asian, like all the cultures that are sitting over here at this table it's a great representation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16606 And it really does represent what Vancouver is all about and Vancouver is promoting and Canada in general. So I think it's a wonderful, wonderful station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16607 THE CHAIRPERSON: Great. I thank you very much for your time and the presentation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16608 And Kenny, very good to see you.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 16609 THE CHAIRPERSON: Give my regards to your family. My mum has moved back to Shanghai, by the way.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 16610 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, and now we will break for lunch and come back at one o'clock.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1159 / Suspension à 1159
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1302 / Reprise à 1302
LISTNUM 1 \l 16611 THE SECRETARY: We will now hear the presentation of Barbara Dortsch. You have 10 minutes for your presentation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16612 Thank you.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 16613 MS DORTSCH: Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16614 Good afternoon. I am here in support of the application 2007‑1020‑4 for Touch Canada Broadcasting.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16615 I myself have become a dedicated wife, mum and grandma and am also an accomplished athlete. I believe none of this would have happened if I had continued down the path I was on.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16616 21 years ago during a very dark time in my life I happened upon KLYN which is now PRAISE 106.5. A song was playing that spoke of hope for the hopeless and light instead of darkness. That was the beginning of my transformation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16617 I have been listening to gospel radio now for over 20 years and it has changed my life. A few years ago there was an announcement on PRAISE 106.5 about an application for the frequency 106.3. Thousands of letters from PRAISE listeners were sent to the CRTC asking that this frequency not be used as it would interfere with the 106.5 frequency.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16618 I gather these letters were not enough to stop this application from being approved. I am now unable to listen to this radio station on a consistent basis in a downtown core of Vancouver where I live as it is constantly being interrupted by 106.3.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16619 PRAISE is the only radio station I listen to because I know that I will not be subjected to off‑colour jokes and foul language, and when my granddaughter is with me I don't have to worry about what might be coming out of the mouths of the radio personalities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16620 I remember when I lived in Alberta and we would come back to the coast and I just couldn't wait to get to Chilliwack because I knew I would finally be able to listen to some Christian ‑‑ I mean, basically Christian or gospel radio because they didn't have any out in Alberta. And it was a time that I really wanted to. I needed that particular type of music and it really did inspire me.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16621 As there is no turning back with the 106.3 station I feel that we, the people, as was evident in 2006 with thousands of letters, deserved to be able to listen to a radio station that is family friendly without any interference from another frequency and Touch Canada Broadcasting will provide us with that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16622 I earnestly hope that you will give Touch Canada consideration in their application. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16623 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16624 And now we will hear the presentation of Young Life of Canada.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16625 MR. CROMPTON: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16626 Madam Chair and the panel, I am here. I am Don Crompton. I am the national director of Young Life in Canada and I am here in support of Touch Broadcasting's application 2007‑1020‑4.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16627 Young Life, for those who don't know, is a non‑denominational youth work in high schools across Canada. We typically work with junior high and senior high students, ages ranging from 12 to 18 years old who are typically non‑church, non‑Christian kids.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16628 Our work consists of offering programs within and without high schools and junior highs across the country providing positive role models, counselling and friendship to our teenagers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16629 It was actually strange this morning. My wife should have come here with me because she is a chronic CBC listener and she has no idea that she may not be able to hear CBC from now on. She would be an intervenor today.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16630 But one thing I have found as a person who travels a lot in British Columbia, I have never found it difficult to hear CBC anywhere I have gone. So I listen to it more than I may even choose.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16631 But Young Life's experience is that teenagers in Canada are two or three bad decisions away from a major catastrophe. Our mission is to come alongside teens in these formative times to help them make good choices in a very complex world.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16632 We have 120 staff and 400 volunteers across Canada working with in excess of 15,000 teenagers. Our teen friends are in a very complex environment, far more complex than when probably you or I grew up.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16633 All media, and I include radio, TV and the internet give teens a very, very confused message today. Major problems faced by our teens; and I am not going to list them all but among them are drug abuse, pregnancy and abortion, rape, robbery and assault, bullying, the disintegration of the nuclear family and suicide. Suicide is the second highest killer of our youth today next to traffic accidents.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16634 The effects of TV and computers are devastating. A six‑year old has already spent more time watching TV than he or she will spend with his or her father for their entire life. And we wonder where our mores come from.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16635 A person sees 14,000 sexual acts per year, 8,000 murders and over 100,000 acts of violence often perpetrated against women and children who are the most helpless. Teens spend over four hours a day in front of their computers and their TVs.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16636 Well, this is the environment that we come next to our teen friends and this is the environment they have to cope with. And many, many of them have little or no hope. They look at some of these music idols creating the model for them and they are crashing on drugs, advocating abuse or worse in their music and feel in some funny way that this must be a norm or something that's acceptable.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16637 We need a music genre in Vancouver that can start ‑‑ that can give young people some hope rather than all the negative messages that seem to permeate much of our music today on the airwaves they hear. I believe that Touch Broadcasting will do that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16638 Many of our youths that we work with who have faith and hope need positive input like Touch Broadcasting is talking about so that they can be encouraged and inspired. We have a large work in Alberta as well where Touch Broadcasting has, I think, one of their stations called Shine FM and many of our people have found that to be a very positive instrument in working with their teen friends.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16639 I personally listen to PRAISE 106.5. Our offices are in Langley, which is our national service centre. I found it helpful for myself, our teen friends who we work with over the last number of years. Unfortunately, a couple of years ago the frequency started to become very scratchy and even in Langley which is, I'm going to say 40 miles from Lynden, Washington where it starts; comes from, it's very difficult to hear. I find as a listener, although I can hear it, it's scratchy and I turn it off. It's too much of an endeavour.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16640 So it seems to us like ‑‑ by virtue of whatever process we had, I believe that those who were interested in a contemporary adult format like this have lost our frequency because it's not very helpful for very long to listen to a scratchy thing like that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16641 I think we need positive broadcasting like PRAISE does or Touch Broadcasting does, and I am aware of their formats.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16642 As an aside, our organization does not promote or do programming. And so we have no benefit in offering our things through any kind of a station like this. Our interest is solely in helping our teen friends cope in a complex environment and we see this as an absolutely great adjunct to what they are doing. It's not going to be the only thing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16643 But one of the things that ‑‑ we have done lots of studies with adolescents and one of the things that adolescents dearly want as much as anything else is quality adult relationships and then they will follow people into good, high quality life decisions. And when I said earlier that two or three bad decisions away from a catastrophe is where we are, where we hope that they will be able to give hope.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16644 I have been questioned at times to say, well, isn't gospel kind of a thing of the past? Do people not go to church or to worship anymore? And I think if you look at the statistics it shows that over the last 50 years probably 50 percent of people used to worship in churches and different things and the statistics are showing it is 15 percent now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16645 But if you study as we do what's happening in the environment, what is happening isn't that people have stopped being spiritual. It isn't that they have stopped being interested in lifestyle issues or personal faith. It's just they have stopped expressing that through, say, the church where you are getting your statistics from.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16646 Our experience is as many or more people now are critically interested about faith issues and having those needs met. In many, many different ways radio is certainly one of those that's very helpful and I think we don't have that in this market today and so that's one of the reasons why we are supporting this.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16647 I think that there is a huge ‑‑ I think probably more than ever now people are interested in their spiritual welfare and I think gospel radio like this gives a very viable and vital input to the people. For us we are working with young adults. Obviously, our call or our mission is to work with kids and give them opportunities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16648 So I would just say in closing I would like us to give youths something other than the same old formats they have got. I think we should give them hope. I think we should have something that shows them that the family is good, that marriage can be fulfilling, that honesty should be the norm, that work is honourable and, indeed, life can have purpose and promise.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16649 Our next generation are our future. They are worth the investment and we must give them positive support and encouragement. This is why Young Life of Canada are supporting this application by Touch Broadcasting. It will make a huge, positive contribution to our youth in this country.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16650 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16651 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16652 And now we will hear the presentation of Eagle‑Com Marketing.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 16653 MS SKENE: Hello. My name is Shannon Skene and I am speaking today in support of Touch Canada Broadcasting's application for the Vancouver frequency 104.1 FM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16654 As a young adult living in Metro Vancouver I have the pleasure of being able to listen to a multitude of radio stations from rock to pop to classical to country to news. I can even turn on the radio and listen to Brazilian or Korean or Portuguese, just to name a few. But the one format that I truly wish to be able to listen to and the one that is barely available to me is the gospel format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16655 The reason I say barely available is because, as you know, PRAISE 106.5 FM which is a U.S. Christian station now has an impaired broadcast here in the Vancouver area due to another station's overlapping frequency. KWPZ is now hindered from reaching thousands of households, vehicles and businesses and I often come across this interference and it prevents from listening to my preferred format station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16656 The reason why I support this particular application so strongly is because I feel that Vancouver needs its own gospel radio station, one with a local feel, local news stories, local headlines, weather and sports, not one that broadcasts out of Washington. I feel much more connected to a radio station when it broadcasts on subjects that matter to me.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16657 Personally, I am often irritated when I turn into a station just to hear a traffic report and I am bombarded with or caught off guard with an onslaught of crude humour or offensive topics. With Touch Canada's application I know that they are committed to providing a family‑friendly station format, one that is safe for everyone to listen to; positive, encouraging and most importantly void of anything inappropriate.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16658 That's the type of radio station I would have on my dial position every hour. In fact, I know that I would actually listen to the radio more than I do right now if there was also a local gospel station available.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16659 Furthermore, I know that the songs and on‑air personalities will be promoting this family‑friendly station format as well and it would be something that I would be proud to call Vancouver's own gospel radio station, something that I can't say right now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16660 There is of course the argument that PRAISE‑FM is still heard in some areas around Vancouver but honestly I don't think that's enough. As a Christian that is heavily involved in the youth and young adult community I can recognize and see that there is a great need for a Vancouver‑based gospel radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16661 One reason why I am so proud to be living in Vancouver is the fact that we can truly boast about diversity. This city cares about various age groups and various ethnic backgrounds, representing a wide variety of views and philosophies. With Touch Canada's application for a gospel radio station Vancouver would be adding to the media choices to serve our diverse population.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16662 And may I reiterate that this proposed radio station would provide a safe and positive listening environment for Vancouver families and young adults and youth all over the city.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16663 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16664 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16665 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commission Menzies will lead the questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16666 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Good afternoon. Thank you very much for that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16667 I just have a couple of questions for you. One is in terms of youth. I am curious to get your input on this issue because we have heard a lot this week that youth don't listen to radio very much anymore and they have gone to alternative sources of music. And I wish to understand more about the need for radio for youth through your perspective given that that age group no matter its affiliation within that age group seems to have gone to other sources for their music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16668 MR. CROMPTON: Is that to anyone?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16669 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16670 MR. CROMPTON: I think that's true. I mean, it's clear that kids have got a multitude of different ways.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16671 Our experience, though, is the kids that we are working with are still interested in media and are still interested in radio. And one of the things that we find with our work with kids is kids are interested in being led somewhere. I mean, if we don't lead them into good habits, positive role models like our own listening habits which our staff across the country are doing, they are going to follow their peers. They are going to follow bad influences. They are going to follow something.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16672 So I honestly don't have the statistics. You would probably know that better than I do about the cross‑section of listening or how people listen. But I know for sure that this is one of the models that we do, and that's the thing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16673 As we work with kids that's what we are listening to and they are ‑‑ as they come to know, like and trust us and model and try and make some good decisions. And it's not just Christian decisions but it is decisions about life because lots of people get exposed to good values and don't make Christian decisions, if you know what I mean, but they need to have the input and that's what we think that this is one of the things that helps. I don't think we are going to change the demographic of people's listening or kids listening across the country because I think, truly, the kids we work with radio is too slow for them. You know, they need to have things change so quickly.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16674 But in any event we think it would be helpful for us. I don't know if that helps you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16675 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Yes, it does. And I am also curious to know, to get input from any one of you on what is the most important part of this application and your needs.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16676 Is it the music or is it more family‑friendly format? In other words, is it to use a CRTC term, is it the spoken word or is it the programming?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16677 MS SKENE: Well, for me it is honestly both. I mean, I am living in a generation that really does enjoy listening to music and I don't enjoy listening to music about checking into rehab or, you know, doing drugs and alcohol. That's not why I listen to music for. I listen to it for inspirational and encouraging words.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16678 At the same time, I would prefer to listen to a station with radio hosts and spoken programming that is the same. It carries that theme across all aspects of the station whether it be music or spoken word. You can't really have a station that promotes friendly music without the friendly talk as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16679 And I think I would like to see in the next couple of years if I were to start a family and go in that direction that I would have this option to listen to in my home or in my car and be able to allow my kids to be able to listen to this type of station and have that option for them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16680 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16681 MR. CROMPTON: I think for us it would be ‑‑ I mean, rather than hearing bang your brains out or blow your head off till it drops, I think our kids are interested in the music first, not so much the spoken word. I think that maybe you could do some formatting that would be ‑‑ but we do a lot of work with music with our kids and it is contemporary good music that has good lyrics that works.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16682 And I think I would feel confident to hear ‑‑ certainly from what I have heard from them in Alberta it's the kind of quality our kids in Alberta listen to, which is peculiar in some senses.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16683 But I think there is ‑‑ we are put upon by statistics often by thinking kids are dead drunk all the time and aren't interested in quality things. And I think if we offer them quality and good role models kids don't disappoint us, you know. So that's why I think we need to give them a chance.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16684 For us I think it's the music first, though. Sorry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16685 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Ms Dortsch.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16686 MS DORTSCH: In my case I know the music is very inspirational. I know there is lots of times when I'm having a bad day or whatever and I get some ‑‑ I get the gospel station on and this is okay. Like right, it's not all about me. It's not all about ‑‑ yes, there is ‑‑ and it gets me through some really tough times or even decision making.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16687 I listen to the word a little bit but it's mainly for the music that I listen. I enjoy the personality, the radio personalities that they have on there. As I say, it's not offensive. I don't have to worry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16688 My granddaughter, she is six years old. She lives back east and when she comes to visit me she sings the songs that she has learned from the radio stations and I am just absolutely appalled. She is six years old and she is using swear words and everything. She says, "Well, this is the music I listen to, grandma".
LISTNUM 1 \l 16689 And so I gave her ‑‑ I said, "Okay, well, we are going to listen to this station" and she said ‑‑ this one particular girl that came on that sounded a lot like a Brittany Spears type but her words were different. And she says, "Grandma, this is nice." And I said, "Yeah, it's not bad, is it?" And I said, "And so what do you think?" She says, "I would buy this".
LISTNUM 1 \l 16690 And so for her this was just something completely new to her and I felt relaxed. I thought, you know ‑‑ and the two of us just sat there one afternoon and just listened to radio, listened to a totally different type of music that she had never ‑‑ she had never been offered. And this is a six year old.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16691 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: So without access to the station that you enjoyed now what have you done to get the music? For instance can you access the music on the internet, any stations on the internet?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16692 MS DORTSCH: Yes, you can. Yes, you can access this on the internet but you have to have your computer on. In the car ‑‑ I actually live right in the west end. I can't get it at all or it's very, very scratchy and then it cuts in and cuts out. So I don't listen to it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16693 When I was listening to it with her it was on our way out to the ferry when we got out into a more open area and then a little bit on the ferry. But it was ‑‑ but where I am it's basically on the internet that I have to listen to it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16694 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: So you have ceased to become a radio listener?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16695 MS DORTSCH: I ceased ‑‑ well, I put on a talk radio station that's basically a new station when I ‑‑ if I need that ‑‑ but besides that I don't listen to it. I don't listen to the radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16696 Actually, at work I am subjected to listening to two stations because that's what they listen to, that are everything I said. The language is crude, the jokes are off colour. So it's really nice to be able to get into the car and be able just to listen to something that I know I'm not going to be offended by. And I don't consider myself a prude but there is a lot of that stuff that's very, very offensive for me.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16697 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16698 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Any others?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16699 MR. CROMPTON: Well, it would seem to me I would like ‑‑ I would encourage the Touch Broadcasting to be a little more edgy for our kids, because I think what you need to realize is kids are in the world and if we are going to lead with great modeling you have to catch them where they are and be relevant.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16700 So it seems to me that, you know, the reason ‑‑ I would like the talk to be better in a sense, so that you can engage kids where they are and lead them somewhere, because I think that's what we need here in this country, is good decisions by kids. And so giving them good input and good modeling and good content would be helpful.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16701 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: It's almost like trying to establish a good church where you can make it interesting for the kids without chasing the grandparents out the door I guess.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 16702 MR. CROMPTON: Yes, well, I don't know about ‑‑
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 16703 MR. CROMPTON: I'm not into church but ‑‑ I don't know what the model is but I think ‑‑ I mean it would be wrong to think that we don't engage where ‑‑ if you don't engage you are going nowhere with the kids. And I am speaking for kids now, not as an adult. I think for our family I would share a lot of what was said by Barbara.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16704 But for our work with kids, that we are trying to rescue kids, it's important that we are relevant and edgy. And you don't have to be off colour but you need to, you know, engage them where they are. And so I think that can be done better in radio than anywhere else because, I mean, if you get tapes, you get things like that, it's shot at you, right?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16705 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Do you think that radio ‑‑ I don't want to put words in your mouth and you can tell me I am wrong but you mention that the kids ‑‑ kids are in the world. Is that how you see radio in terms of that? I'm just thinking of the prescription to not necessarily be of the world but in the world; is it a bridge between their lives and living in the world?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16706 MR. CROMPTON: It would be kind of naive for me to think you are getting them out of the ‑‑ like I think we are all in the world. We will always be in the world and I think it's maybe coming alongside them somewhere, helping them to go somewhere else; not taking them out of something. So maybe that's a confused metaphor in a sense.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16707 But somehow I think our challenge is giving good choices to kids, not to have them adopt even my own personal position but that they develop their own personal faith, whatever that faith is and sometimes it would be disappointing for me if it isn't my faith, but you know what I mean?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16708 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16709 MR. CROMPTON: And it's a success for us working with kids if they end up being great citizens and make good choices, because they are our future, so anyway.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16710 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay, thank you very much. Thanks for your presentation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16711 THE CHAIRPERSON: I thank you very much for your taking the time to come here to express your personal ‑‑ and share with us your personal views. I know that there is a high personal stake involved when you are not simply expressing your taste in music but you actually go into the arena of values.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16712 So it's not easy and I appreciate your time. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16713 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16714 I will now ask Ryan Donn and Jon Bird to appear as a panel.
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 16715 THE SECRETARY: Please introduce yourself and you have 10 minutes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16716 Thank you.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 16717 MR. DONN: Thank you for having me. My name is Ryan Donn. I am a Kelowna‑based singer/songwriter who came down from Kelowna yesterday to talk here. I am here to support the CFM application for Vista Radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16718 I have been performing and recording in the Okanagan for over a decade. I am here to say I support this application for the seventies‑based ‑‑ gold‑based ‑‑ sorry, just nervous.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16719 You have read my letter of support. I am here today because I fervently believe that the commitment that CFM has made to play 10 ‑‑ actually, I found it's 12.5 percent of emerging artists as part of their CanCon commitment ‑‑ I think that fact is why I am here today. That's the simple core reason why I am here.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16720 I phoned 120 radio stations over the last three weeks. I took a leave of absence from work to call to promote my single after it was picked up by 15 stations in the Okanagan, six of which were from Vista Radio. That for me is what I consider a break. You talked about that with the last application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16721 In calling it's been an education in how the world of radio works, the fact that there is a CRTC meeting today. It's a whole new world for songwriters to even consider the business of music rather than just the music that we push ourselves into all the time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16722 As I was learning about this business, I read your report yesterday that came out about emerging artists where ‑‑ I think I understand correctly ‑‑ during April 2007 I think it was 3 percent of the music played was emerging artists. 12.5 is obviously a 400 percent increase that they have committed to play.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16723 For me that's going to be the key difference between getting played on radio and not getting played on radio. When it's 3 percent choice between Bryan Adams or Ryan Donn with a single that might fit the format just as well, Bryan Adams will be chosen because of the base that's there for ‑‑ 3 percent emerging isn't enough in my opinion.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16724 12.5 percent that they have committed to from the CFM application in Vancouver is key to taking singer/songwriters who pour their heart and soul into music and produce ‑‑ you know take money they don't have to make CDs, to make music that will get heard by the masses. I think radio still is a very ‑‑ is key to taking artists and breaking them into the mass of ‑‑ the mass market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16725 MySpace and Facebook is great. I use them all the time to promote concerts but I have done shows in markets where my songs are played and it's twice as many people. It is just that simple. It increases the listenership that listens to my music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16726 Learning about BDS has also been interesting; again, tracking songs and all this following up with stations. So the six stations that are playing my song on has been great. We called I said 120 stations. I feel like I have learned a lot about the world of radio and it was a very unique experience, I think, just calling all the stations and finding out even what a gold‑based station means.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16727 I see every application ‑‑ or I see every radio station trying to balance between a financially‑viable product that's going to work for them, that's going to hit all the target audiences they talk about while also trying to support emerging, because I feel that the people want to support emerging artists. I just feel that sometimes it lacks the actual ‑‑ the model to follow through with it. I feel this model does that and that's why I am here today. That's why I drove down. That's why I am fully behind this application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16728 I found the character of the people to be immensely encouraging. I cold‑called two people from a station and one actually I Facebooked through Facebook because they were organizing something and connected with Angie Clary and Jason Mann and both of them in a market where they had no stations that fit my format, adult contemporary. They were an open door. They provided support and information about radio and also how to go ‑‑ advice. I mean we can know only ‑‑ we can only have a limited amount of things we are specialists in or we know lots about and they were able to offer that information. I think I have an article here that Jason Mann writes in B.C. Musician magazine giving that information to B.C. musicians. It speaks to the character, I think, and the support that they are genuinely giving emerging artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16729 The things that I ran into that were boundaries for my song being played even if my song fit the format ‑‑ as I said there is 15 stations playing a single there for you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16730 When I phoned around one ‑‑ a few ‑‑ I will just make sure what I have got here. A few stations didn't feel it fit the format, which is reasonable. That's an understandable ‑‑ they have a quality thing they have to go through. A few stations weren't able because of my name due to possible name confusion with another artist. My own name is Ryan Donn, D‑o‑n‑n, just as a side note.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16731 My concern always was that when the station felt I fit their format but proceeded to tell me that the hurdles ‑‑ it's tough to play names that aren't recognized as opposed to emerging artists who aren't recognized and this catch‑22 of, "Well, we are interested in playing you but we have got a choice of playing you or" ‑‑ and listing names that I very easily recognized and their listenership would also recognize.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16732 The fact that they are giving a million dollars to FACTOR is going to help me fund my next CD, I think. A million dollars that's a lot of money in my world, a lot of money in anybody's world, but funding FACTOR as part of their application is something that is going to allow me to access funds that will make a higher quality product which makes it more likely to be played on radio in the future.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16733 Yes, I prefer a guitar in front of me and singing rather than talking but that's just my side thoughts.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16734 I can refer to my letter. We had the recent ‑‑ as you know, a few of you probably were there ‑‑ we had an application come through Kelowna. Up until my last CD was released, This Life, I think I have been played on one station in the Kelowna market. And I had five phone calls or emails asking me to participate in a CRTC hearing which created a massive amount of curiosity in me as just the disproportionate between the reality of support I had received from radio and to the amount of people phoning me and saying, "Okay. Well, we are really supportive of emerging artists. We want you to be there." It was baffling to be honest.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16735 The reason why I'm here today is because this is something I believe that this ‑‑ when I looked at the format, 12.5 percent committing to playing supporting emerging artists, it gives artists a voice on that station to fit in with names that they are more recognized and allows them a format that they are just going to create new listeners for and create new fans and build new artists and build careers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16736 So in my letter I referred to I was surprised that, you know, five applications all of a sudden phoning me and I am going, well, why all of a sudden do I get all this attention from radio? And it was one station I wanted to support up there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16737 So in my letter I recently went to hometown. This happened ‑‑ you have got two stations ‑‑ and in some cases I feel honestly independent musicians are almost ‑‑ I feel like a pawn almost in the ‑‑ just to gain CRTC approval. The reality is the power you guys have I found is just immense. The reason why it's worth driving down from Kelowna today is you affect ‑‑ you are ‑‑ you guide what is going to be played in a large, big picture way. And it baffles me just how much you, the CRTC, can affect that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16738 So I just wanted to voice my support of their application and give my perspective as 12.5 percent is phenomenal. If I can get my song on there because of 12.5 percent, as opposed to 3 percent in April 2007 that's very exciting I think for me and many of my cohorts and many of my friends. So of course I will be in the foyer with my CD available to handout to anybody that's there listening, but that's just a side note.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16739 Did you have any questions about my letter or anything that I have said today?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16740 THE CHAIRPERSON: I will ask Commissioner Duncan.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16741 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Thank you very much, Ryan, for coming and that your letter was clear and your presentation was very clear. Even though you felt you were nervous it was very clear. We appreciate your comments.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16742 MR. DONN: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16743 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Emerging artists are important to the CRTC as well, as you know.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16744 And I just was curious, this is an AC format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16745 MR. DONN: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16746 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: And I gather that you have a relationship or you have recently built one ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16747 MR. DONN: Built a relationship.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16748 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: ‑‑ with them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16749 MR. DONN: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16750 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Did you look at any of the other applications and would you fit in with any of the adult alternative formats?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16751 MR. DONN: Adult or alternative?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16752 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Triple A.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16753 MR. DONN: I listened to the applications today. I heard ‑‑ I was here all day today just as I wasn't sure what time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16754 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Oh, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16755 MR. DONN: So I heard the ‑‑ I think it was The Planet who was there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16756 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: The Planet they were talking about.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16757 MR. DONN: Yes, I heard that one. I heard other applications.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16758 As a songwriter I think any musician would be happy to have their song played on every radio station. I think what I am here to talk about today is just the commitment from a station to play this 12.5 percent is key for me because ‑‑ so do I feel my song might fit on stations? My hope is my songs fit on all the stations. I realize that they don't.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16759 Adult contemporary is where I realized in the last six months that's where my songs fit. That's where the market, if I talk in this language again, that is there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16760 So do I feel my songs would fit on other stations? What were the categories again?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16761 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Adult, adult alternative was one of the ones that ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16762 MR. DONN: Yes, I feel it would fit on there, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16763 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: You would?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16764 MR. DONN: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16765 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: So probably on many of the formats you would fit.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16766 But you have seen, and I can appreciate your comments that you really have witnessed firsthand Vista's commitment to emerging artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16767 MR. DONN: I'm finding more and more it's all about relationships on every aspect. That's why I have been the one calling radio stations asking them to play my song and I have called, as I said, 120 which takes a long time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16768 Yes, so I feel it's the relationship that I have seen in the fact that it's an email after reading an article on how to approach radio and getting a response back, "Hey, well, thanks for your call. We will accept your CD and listen to it and give you a response back" and then an open door by Angie Clary saying, "Any advice you need in the radio world let us know".
LISTNUM 1 \l 16769 That's invaluable and for me that's the relationship that caused me to want to support this.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16770 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Yes, I am curious of the 120 that you called, so 16 are playing including six Vista. Did I get that correct?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16771 MR. DONN: Yes, you got that correct, yes. So there is 100 and I think there is ‑‑ I think we also talked about which ones track on BDS or something. I think of the stations that are playing me I think only two track on BDS as opposed to the other ones, which I don't quite understand.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16772 But yes, there is a whole ‑‑ the charts I guess are made up of ‑‑ on the charts only two of those count for ‑‑ I think charts or something, so yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16773 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: I'm curious to know the explanation. I can understand somebody says it doesn't fit the format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16774 MR. DONN: Right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16775 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: You seem to understand that. But what other kinds of excuses ‑‑ excuses I was going to say ‑‑ explanations were you given? The confusion with name; I mean a lot of people have the same name.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16776 MR. DONN: Yes, I was surprised in Toronto. I know the one station very clearly said due to the fact my name was Ryan Donn which I am not going to change that, I don't think. There is an artist Ryan Dan that's also in the AC market. So I think the reason they weren't willing to play my song was that was the reason.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16777 The biggest reason was ‑‑ and it's been the reason why I think this 12.5 is key. And I think if you ask what the CRTC can do, well, I would say mandate it across every station in Canada. But that's just my personal opinion ‑‑ is that okay, well, we like the song; good quality. So the problem wasn't format. It fits. What we hear about you as a person fits the character that we want to support ‑‑ with my work with the Boys and Girls Club and other things.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16778 So that everything was there and the thing ‑‑ the missing link was, "We will wait to see what it does in the charts" which obviously if we know how that works it's ‑‑ well, okay, where there has been local support by building relationships in Okanagan where I know people, I can relate to them in person. But it will not go any further because ‑‑ and not say "will not". I really hope it goes much further.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16779 But it will not go high on the charts without other people picking up the song and the reason, the main reason why people say is if you get 100 spins on BDS we will play you. And then if people say if you got 400 spins on BDS, if you hit the top, we only play the top ten songs and you are competing with ‑‑ the three spots we have for Canadian content are filled by ‑‑ I think Bryan Adams just released a new signal produced by Mutt Lang, I think, on a few stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16780 The main one was until you are charting we can't play you more which of course obviously in turn is I'm not charting because you are not playing. So that was the main key that stopped my song to this point. It may change but that's the key that stopped it there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16781 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: I suppose one other thing that we should observe about the emerging artists is that they get played throughout the day and I think you kind of touched on that when you said about being played alongside established artists and you don't want to be ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16782 MR. DONN: It's phenomenal, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16783 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Yes, you don't want to be relegated to any particular hour in a day. You want to be interspersed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16784 MR. DONN: Absolutely. You know it's been ‑‑ well, I was just shown a video by Jason and I looked at their presentation. They showed ‑‑ I think Serena Ryder was the song they had on there and the comment he said at the end was, "Well, and do you notice how it all blends together?"
LISTNUM 1 \l 16785 And it was absolutely blended together and you didn't notice the Canadian and the emerging artists at all because there is a quality filter that has to be on there. I mean, obviously her stuff is great and she is going to get played and also Justin Hinds, I think, was mentioned on their thing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16786 If the quality fits it's going to blend and it is going to build listenership and build fans. And people get excited. I mean in the Okanagan right now it's been an exciting response from the community to see one of their own played on local radio and throughout B.C. with Vista Radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16787 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Well, thank you, Ryan. I certainly appreciate your comments. I'm sure the Chair is going to address that and I am sure that Vista appreciates your support as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16788 Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16789 MR. DONN: Thanks.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16790 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. You are doing very well for being nervous but if you feel better you can set your intervention to music next time.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 16791 THE CHAIRPERSON: But I appreciate you coming all this way. Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16792 MR. DONN: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16793 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16794 I will now call Grrrls With Guitars, Tamara Adilman, Zenith Optimedia and Convergent Entertainment to appear as a panel.
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 16795 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16796 We will start with Grrrls with Guitars. Please present yourself and you have 10 minutes.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 16797 MS DAVENPORT: Madam Chair and Commissioners, my name is Nadine Davenport. I ma the founder, producer and host of Grrrls with Guitars, one of the longest running singer/songwriter showcases and compilation series in western Canada and based here in Vancouver since 1994.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16798 I am here in support of Harvard Broadcasting's application for Jane‑FM and to speak on behalf of the 500‑plus women songwriters involved over the years with Grrrls with Guitars.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16799 I first wanted to say how honoured I am to be part of these hearings and a part of an application which is so deserving in my opinion and whose time has come, Vancouver's own Jane‑FM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16800 From the beginning Grrrls with Guitars' mandate has always been to showcase the highest possible level of some of this country's brightest emerging talent. As a multifaceted project with 14 years under our belt, we continue to seek out new and upcoming women songwriters of all genres that will be the voice of the future.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16801 There is certainly no shortage of talent to choose from. It is exciting for us to think about a future with many opportunities for women artists in the years to come on the airwaves of Jane‑FM. The injection of funding from Harvard into the Grrrls with Guitars project will breathe new energy into this grassroots and Indie endeavour and allow us to produce CDs on an annual basis over seven years with a budget of $900,000.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16802 Here is some names for you: Sandy Scofield, Arbor recording artist, 2008 Juno nominee, 2004 Canadian aboriginal music award winner and on Grrrls with Guitars, Volume 1; Kinnie Starr, Canadian aboriginal artist, 2004 Juno nominee and on Volume 1; Adrienne Pierce, now on Network Records and on Volume 2; Po' Girl, Network recording artist and on Volume 3; Kim Barlow, Yukon‑based artist and Juno award nominee and on Volume 3 and, finally, Coco Love Alcorn, a Black Hen recording artist, Volume 3 artist and on the last two Grrrls with Guitars tours.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16803 Part soul diva, part folk troubadour, part jazz improviser, part revolutionary, part visual artist, Coco is a multifaceted gem who has been on the road constantly since the last two Grrrls with Guitars tours in 2006. Between March 8th which is coming up and July in the summer, she has over 45 dates and will also be finding time to mix her next CD.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16804 These are just some of the women of the over 40 women that I am proud to say that have been part of the GWG compilations and tour initiatives.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16805 As individual working emerging artists today GWG alumni are touring, promoting and creating awareness of the GWG project and its continued legacy. As we prepare for our 10‑year anniversary some facts became to be apparent. It was determined that 85 percent of all GWG artists on the compilations were working artists and making a living at music fulltime.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16806 Many women have had the opportunity of touring for the first time and now have lasting skills to service their own careers. The beauty of the GWG project is seeing the women from many of the tours subsequently carve their own path through the cities and towns that showcases have travelled to.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16807 Jane‑FM will help me continue this amazing journey to help many women who will then be empowered to make music a career choice.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16808 The commitment from Jane‑FM for funds for Grrrls with Guitars to tour, a group in support of the compilations across Canada is a groundbreaking opportunity for many aspiring female artists. With this funding and support in place for CD production, promotion and tour support in Canada coast to coast we have only gotten as far as Winnipeg on an Indie budget.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16809 And abroad with the possible Canada Blast Festival opportunities Jane‑FM will assist hundreds of women of varying degrees of experience, ethnicities and many different generations of women.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16810 The format of radio has a special place to me as a budding songwriter in the early eighties. I was one of those girls with guitars you walk by on Granville Street and toss in a quarter or two and played my own songs along with my heroes and heroines; Joni Mitchell, Emmylou Harris, Linda Ronstadt, Carole King, Valdi, Logins and Messina and James Taylor.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16811 One night, if I may indulge, was especially memorable. It started as I was just about to pack it in. An Indie film crew was shooting a movie for an SFU film project and they needed to film a teenage runaway in a big city listening to a busker. I was thrilled. The scene was shot and I was high as a kite, but actually in retrospect never did get a chance to see it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16812 Then, an hour later, I was approached by a woman that stopped by and said that I should check out a community radio station in town and that I could probably become a member and get my music on a few shows. So I did. Months later I find myself recording myself for the first time in Studio B where as a member you were able to use the studio in the AM hours.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16813 So from 2:00 AM to 4:00 AM one evening I became the recording artist, the producer and the engineer running back and forth recording probably one of the worst songs imaginable. But the point is that's all it took. It was the opportunity and I was on my way.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16814 Years since I have been recognized nationally as a champion for women's artists in Vancouver and all over western Canada. Grrrls with Guitars is now in its 14th year and has produced three compilation CDs over five touring initiatives and countless festival and conference appearances. All three compilations have had significant airplay on CBC, college community radio. GWG Volume 1 reached the Top 50 on the Canada's college community radio and selections from all three Grrrls with Guitars' CDs are getting regular spins on Victoria's Village 900 and on CBC.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16815 As I was doing some research on the net for my time before you, I came across a reminder of how far we have come, or so I hope. A female DJ and creator of GOGIRLS.NET reflects:
"In the 1980s she was told that she couldn't play two women artists back to back on the air or she would be fired. She was also told that she would never be on the air during the days because women DJs only worked at night and on the weekends. And in the early nineties she was told that she would be fired for playing Tracey Chapman's music. She played it anyway and then she quit." (As read)
LISTNUM 1 \l 16816 MS DAVENPORT: As a listener of radio myself I am a dial puncher. Aboriginal radio 106.3 plays some interesting music but I find they repeat cuts too often. I tried to listen to the poor signal on my tracker from CKMO, Victoria's Village 900, but I get frustrated. It would be so nice to hear a compilation track or hear of a new woman artist I should checkout for upcoming projects.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16817 I know the artists involved with my project are getting airplay but not even nearly enough and especially in Vancouver where the project has its roots.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16818 So as a producer and as an artist myself, there is a very basic need. Jane‑FM is the answer, a station that will play all of the great music I have spent 15 years cultivating and will continue to do so regardless of this application outcome.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16819 But on a personal note I am offering this same situation to any other application that might be the winner. I will be able to produce a CD per year for the next seven years, promote it properly and tour each CD and its artist across Canada and possibly abroad.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16820 Jane‑FM will not only be a voice for new emerging and established Canadian artists but will also play the best in Canadian regional artists, male and female from roots, folk, alternative rock, world and pop. Imagine the impact of Vancouver's first Triple A radio station from the point of view of the artists themselves who have never had the opportunity to really see or feel the immense benefits from a station in terms of its effects locally with increased CD sales, merchandise sales and a fan base. What took us so long?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16821 Finally, speaking as a woman who was born and bred in North Vancouver, I am now 44 and feel Jane‑FM will speak to a lot of the issues I am faced with and face going into my fifties. I believe they will provide real tangible programming that will speak to me, my partner Andrea, my mother and my friends, male and female. Dealing with today's issues for today's families and a playlist that is simply put my cultural reality, they nailed it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16822 I thank the Commission for your attention and giving me the chance to speak. I hope that I have outlined to you all the immense need for Jane‑FM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16823 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16824 And now we will hear Convergent Entertainment. Please introduce yourself and you have 10 minutes.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 16825 MR. DANKS: Thank you, Commissioners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16826 My name is Brad Danks. I am the chief operating officer of Convergent Entertainment and I have the good fortune, I guess, of operating that company and we are the majority owner of ‑‑ I think we are the only national television channel run out of Vancouver, which is OUTtv and we have majority ownership of that channel and we operate right here in Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16827 So we thought it was very important particularly as a channel that is operated as an independent, to come to these proceedings to review the applications and look at them from the perspective of an independent broadcaster and a Vancouver‑based independent broadcaster.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16828 So we looked at the different applications and I spent some time considering the ones that we liked. There were a number of factors about the Harvard Broadcasting application for Jane‑FM that impressed us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16829 One of the obvious things we are dealing with this year in general is the issue of diversity and diversity hearings are of course ongoing and those considerations. We were most impressed with the market research that was done in the Harvard application and the idea of targeting and servicing what we consider an unserviced market and considering that we are underserviced group. You know, we understood both the difficulties but also the benefits of highly targeting a group like that and we understood the need for an underserviced group to be targeted as well as they had established it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16830 The other thing that we were obviously concerned about is media concentration which continues to be an ongoing issue. And I will hopefully have the pleasure of appearing in front of you next month in the regulatory proceedings regarding those issues. When we looked at the corporate groups this became a really important factor in where we made our determination.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16831 On the one side we saw a lot of the very large media companies in Canada applying for applications and this of course concerned us for all the usual reasons; lack of diversity of voices in the case of radio, obviously; standardization of formats which in so many ways hurt the radio industry across North America and also ownership. We looked at the different ownership groups and saw one that was a western Canada‑based company while they weren't in Vancouver yet.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16832 We were very impressed with the things that they have done in a lot of other jurisdictions and particularly impressed that they have really walked the walk on the ground in some of their ‑‑ some in Calgary for example, the things that they have done and going into markets like Fort McMurray and so on. You know we are very impressed by that and that was a really important factor.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16833 And the other concern of course we had was on the other side. As a small broadcaster I am acutely aware of the challenges that you are faced in this industry. Resources matter and it is a challenge.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16834 So we were concerned to the other side with a number of the independents that were applying and wondering whether or not there was the wherewithal to be able to stick it out. I'll call it the stick‑to‑itiveness required in this particular industry to make it work because it is one thing to think a radio station is going to be a great thing to own and run and operate but we have seen many, many examples of radio stations that have started up and run for a short period of time and then have been flipped to or had to be taken over and traditionally it's by one of the larger media conglomerates. In fact, obviously we saw that recently in Vancouver with The Beat.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16835 And we really felt that the track record of the Harvard group was very strong in this regard and if they were granted the application and executed what we believe is an extremely well thought‑out business plan they would be able to maintain the station and grow it successfully in this marketplace, and that is as important a consideration as ever.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16836 So in balancing the diversity which we believe is really important in the marketplace and to some extent dealing with the massive consolidation we are facing, we saw this as a great independent voice from western Canada that we thought would be an excellent business partner for us in this marketplace.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16837 Those are my comments.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16838 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16839 Commissioner Cugini, please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16840 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16841 Mr. Danks, I will just start with you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16842 So essentially your intervention here, it's your contention that Harvard is the right size company to compete in this market and not only compete but it's able to sustain its presence because it's not too big and it's not too small?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16843 MR. DANKS: Lukewarm water, I guess.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16844 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Well, maybe you know the Three Bears, a quick comparison but ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16845 MR. DANKS: No, we do think that's very important. You obviously want, you know, diversity. We want different voices.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16846 But, you know, I am acutely aware on a daily basis of the challenges of running a broadcasting entity and you do need the experience. You do need to ‑‑ it's one thing to see we are going to hire local staff, we are going to do all these things; we are going to give all these things to artists but, you know, we bought a channel that had gone into bankruptcy and I have to deal with all of the challenges there and there were a lot of promises made that could not be kept.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16847 And it's one thing to say we are going to do all these things and then you get into it and then you have to deal with what's real on the ground. And one of the things that impressed me is that that's what they have done in other places and if they hadn't done that I wouldn't be prepared to support them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16848 But they have gone forward in the other locations and they have said, "We are going to do these things" and they have done them. And I think that's ‑‑ you know, that's a differentiator there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16849 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Do you think that any other radio operator, perhaps a first time radio operator would be more challenged in this market?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16850 MR. DANKS: I think they would be very much more challenged. I think it would be ‑‑ everybody underestimates and this is a problem in general with all startup businesses. Everybody underestimates the period of time it takes. Everybody underestimates the stick‑to‑itiveness you have got to do, how much ‑‑ you know, not just the money but also the commitment to building the brand and so on.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16851 You have to have a long term strategy. And what happens with a lot of young entrepreneurs is that begins to burnout when the money begins to dry up and the dreams aren't realized as quickly as they want to, you know.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16852 And our channel, for example, I believe we are the fasting‑growing digital channel in Canada. We grow about 3 percent a month and it doesn't seem fast enough, you know. You are still dealing with all kinds of challenges on a day‑to‑day basis and you have to look at the corporate parent. You have to say what is their long term strategy and their long term strategy fits making it work.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16853 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Broad shoulders and deep pockets.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16854 MR. DANKS: There you go.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16855 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Ms Davenport, is Grrrls with Guitars only a B.C.‑based organization or is it across the country?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16856 MS DAVENPORT: Well, we have I mentioned two Yukon‑based artists. My vision for when I put out Volume 3 was to expand for the purposes of touring, expanding the project in terms of knowledge of it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16857 It's interesting because there is a Grrrls with Guitars in Ontario in Toronto. There is a Grrrls with Guitars in Nashville. There is a Grrrls with Guitars in Europe, in the U.K. My friends will tell you that I was the founder and creator of the idea but nowhere do I take that on. The idea is not new. You know, it is women getting together. Songwriters getting together is, you know, history old.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16858 But the idea of me wanting to take this in terms of credible artists; putting them on the compilations ‑‑ that would be for me an idea that I would consider but I really think that B.C. artists especially need to be focused on as well. That's where I am from. I guess that's my hesitation and that's my roots.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16859 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Do you receive funding from FACTOR for the compilation CD?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16860 MS DAVENPORT: Never have from FACTOR. Compilations are not actually a viable way of getting funding through FACTOR.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16861 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16862 MS DAVENPORT: The way that I have received my money from is from my Visa card and my dad and my mother and the garage sale and the 16‑odd women who contribute money to put it together. So that's ‑‑ Volume 1 and 2 were created that way. Volume 3 was ‑‑ I had the blessing of having an Indie label called Maximum Music be part of Volume 3. Since then that relationship is no longer so I am back to being Indie but, you know, given the opportunity to produce these CDs it is a magnificent possibility in my life.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16863 I created what was a once a month workshop or a night at a local club called the Railway Club and it's blossomed into this huge thing and now I am sitting before you and a radio station that I believe in is believing in me. And that speaks volumes to many artists past and future.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16864 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Well, thank you both very much for coming this afternoon. I have no further questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16865 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16866 MR. DANKS: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16867 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Your interventions were very thorough and I again thank you for your time in coming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16868 MS DAVENPORT: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16869 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16870 I will now call Coastal Jazz & Blues Society to come to the presentation table.
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 16871 THE SECRETARY: I would then ask Jim Byrnes, Denis Nokony and Duane Geddes to appear as a panel and present their intervention.
‑‑‑ Pause
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 16872 MR. BYRNES: Madam Chairman, members of the panel, I am Jim Byrnes. Thanks for being here and listening to us. I'm here intervening on behalf of the Shore‑FM application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16873 Now, I have been ‑‑ I'm well known locally as an entertainer. I have been 43 years in show business as an actor, as a musician, as a songwriter, as a narrator, as a voice actor. And I have won numerous awards; my own recent CD, House of Refuge which is a combination of blues, gospel and country, all my influences, we won last year the 2007 Juno award.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16874 We won the two Maple Blues awards. We won the Western Canadian Folk Music Alliance Award and we won the Western Canada Music Awards and the material that I put out is nowhere to be heard on the radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16875 I think we have heard a lot about ‑‑ and I would have to agree with so many of the people who came on before. Diversity is something that's lacking. There is a hole in this market. It's very conservative in terms of music, what we are able to hear.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16876 And music is available in a number of formats as we talked about. I have a 20‑year old daughter who is a second‑year student in film production at the University of British Columbia so she is very interested in culture, the arts and in music. And we go to a lot of different formats to find the music that we want to hear, but one being a station that I get on the internet out of Santa Cruz, California that I think is fantastic and plays fantastic music and I hear the music I want to hear. But what I don't hear if I want to buy a suit of clothes or get a haircut or go to a restaurant or rent a car; well, I know where to do it in Santa Cruz, California but I'm not hearing what we can get right here in Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16877 With that same sort of a situation here we could support ‑‑ because this is in fact business as we all know. You know, show business, no business ain't no show. So we really need, I think, in terms of filling this need for diversity in programming a variety and some community involvement in our programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16878 And I think really at the heart of this is the fact that I think that this particular group can really make this work. If you look at our shareholders these are people with proven track records in the business. Two of them I can speak of as personal friends of mine.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16879 Sam Feldman I have known since he started booking bands when I was first starting to play in this market here in Vancouver. And he has risen to the very top of the international entertainment business, okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16880 David Eisenstein now, I sit on the board locally of a charitable foundation and through my work with the charitable foundation I have gotten to be good friends with David Eisenstein, another fellow who has had tremendous international success. He has 85 restaurant properties and that's as tough a business as there is in the world, the restaurant business. But he chooses to stay in Vancouver; same with Sam. This is home.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16881 Now, I am an immigrant to Vancouver and maybe I love Vancouver as only an immigrant can. I came here under some difficult circumstances. I don't know ‑‑ I can remember exactly where I was 36 years ago today. I was in a hospital in Nanaimo hovering between life and death. I was in a serious accident on the evening of the 26th of February, 1972 and for four days they didn't know if I would live or die. Obviously, I'm here yapping at you so I lived. But it cost me ‑‑ they had to amputate both of my legs. I came to Vancouver originally to go to JF Strong, to get fitted for prosthesis and for rehabilitation. And I fell in love with the place. I stayed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16882 People here accepted me. They gave me a forum. They gave me a way to use my love of music and my knowledge of music and my talent to ‑‑ I have got a wonderful career. I'm not an emerging artist. I have carved out a career for myself. But in that time I have met so many young people and I know so many young people, so many great young musicians who do not have the forum that they need and I think this format, this Triple A format which you have heard on and on. It's gone on all day.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16883 The difference between ours and that is that I can guarantee that this station will work because we have a solid, very solid business and community‑oriented base that will, I think, prove this to be a very successful station, one that provides music, entertainment, what people want to hear, provides opportunity for community involvement; arts, culture, all sorts of things that we ‑‑ you know the environment, the things that we all care about.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16884 And that's what I have got to say.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16885 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16886 I will now ask Dennis Nokony. You have 10 minutes for your presentation.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 16887 MR. NOKONY: Thank you, Jade. It's actually Dennis Nokony.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16888 THE SECRETARY: Sorry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16889 MR. NOKONY: No problem.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16890 I am here of course to speak on behalf of the Shore‑FM application. I am the Assistant Director of Cultural Services for the City of Burnaby and I have been involved in public cultural administration at the provincial and local level for over 30 years now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16891 Part of my current responsibilities in the City of Burnaby, a community of 210,000 in Metro Vancouver, is to be in charge of special events and festivals, one of which is the Burnaby Blues + Roots Festival. And if Carolyn wants to go and cruise the net now, look up BurnablyBluesFestival.com and there is lots of information on there.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 16892 MR. NOKONY: Sorry to interrupt.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16893 With this 30 years of experience in cultural support I am happy to say that I'm from the government and I'm here to help today. I jest.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16894 One thing that seems to me to be quite important to remember in dealing with both this application and the business of supporting creative artists in our nation is that culture in fact happens in your town. It doesn't really happen in your country. The artists are your neighbours. They live. They perform. They live and breathe and they earn their livings in a neighbourhood and in a community, and that's how many people get to see them, be exposed to them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16895 And part of the business in providing live entertainment opportunities in the city of Burnaby through the festival on at Deer Lake Park, which is a large outdoor concert facility hosting up to 10,000 visitors in a beautiful urban lake setting, is that we provide an opportunity for artists to get in front of their necessary audiences. It's live entertainment and it's related to this application insofar as the applicant has considered and agreed to providing for an additional day of programming of Canadian artists at the Burnaby Blues + Roots Festival for seven years at the expense of the applicant.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16896 What this represents indeed in its own way is that we will have an opportunity here to expand the festival which is a vital event now entering its ninth year. As a cultural phenomenon in Burnaby the City of Burnaby took the initiative to seed the event and get it going and now, of course, it has significant corporate sponsorship and it's one of the go to locations and events in the Lower Mainland.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16897 That being said, we have always had a commitment to local talent too. The international Canadian and regional talent that have been showcased in the eight act events that happens annually at Burnaby Deer Lake Park certainly provides a visitor with a broad variety of quality talent and also, as the name blues and roots implies, extends past a strict blues genre to including other influences of consequence and interest to local audiences.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16898 We program outdoor concerts and special events and festivals from May to September annually in this park. As a unique enterprise, as a unique facility, it certainly is something worth continuing to invest in. And I think what we have witnessed here both with this application and certainly with the other levels of sponsors that keep coming to us is that there is a need for this type of enterprise, this cooperative venture in the Lower Mainland in western Canada to provide both for opportunities for our artists and for audiences.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16899 The other exciting part about the application is in relation to the business of coming to Deer Lake Park to do an entire day of Canadian talent and to consider recording and later broadcasting that talent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16900 Artists need to have access to their markets in order to earn a living, in order to sustain their enterprise and in order to continue to become known in the nation and around the world and this is one method of so doing. It's related to live performance opportunities. That value is shared with Shore‑FM's application in terms of their programming proposal.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16901 I should mention that the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra plays at Deer Lake Park annually and has for 20 years. Part of the enterprise there when I established it 20 years ago working with sponsors and the symphony for a free admission event which actually brings in around 10,000 people every year is that we feature local concerto competition winners as soloists with the symphony. These young artists who are brilliant get their first opportunity in their young careers to perform with a full symphony in front of an audience of 10,000. That commitment is part of the tradition of providing talent opportunities in our community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16902 John Camera Parker is from Burnaby; Allan Monk(ph) is. Michael Bublé is from Burnaby. He lives a few blocks away. Michael J. Fox is from Burnaby. It's a town like many towns in our nation that breeds artists. We have a fundamental belief in the valuing of those artists and our town.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16903 I wanted to mention too that Colin James, I knew him when he was 11 years old in Regina. He was Colin James Munn and he came up to me when he was 16 years old and he said, "Denis, I respect what you are doing" because I did artist touring back then. He says, "I'm thinking of quitting school and going to Vancouver to play music. I have an opportunity to do something." And I said, "Colin, if you are going to go and do that do it because you believe in your music. Do it because you are committed to your music and do it because if you fail at doing it you don't want to be selling guitars at a music store when you are 30 years old. Go back to school." And he said thank you and I will be damned if it wasn't a year later that he was on the road with Stevie Ray Vaughan. He met Keith Richards and his albums came out years after that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16904 Colin is an example of a Canadian artist who believed in his work and was very well qualified at it. Colin has played at Deer Lake Park twice.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16905 The festival lawn was a site of a visit of the Premier of British Columbia last Friday wherein he offered a significant amount of money towards the improvement of the site, a half a million dollar grant. The City has committed to spending another $1.9 million in the venue over the next 18 months.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16906 This is an example of the value of cooperative partnering and bringing to bear the powers from each of these single partners together in an enterprise that can help expand the opportunities for artists and can help do what is so important, as your Commission so well knows, and that is to find the distribution opportunities for their work and help them sustain themselves and create a viable living in our nation, something that's so long overdue.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16907 A conversation I had with Keith Spicer in Toronto 20 years ago sounded exactly like this and I credit all those who are committed to advancing the cause of cultural production and cultural distribution in our country and in our community.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 16908 MR. GEDDES: Madam Chairman, Members of the Commission, my name is Duane Geddes and I am the Executive Director of the Sam Sullivan Disability Foundation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16909 I think you have had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Sullivan. I think I got word that he was actually here earlier this week.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16910 Sam was quite a guy and is quite a man. He had a number of influences, a number of interests as a young person prior to breaking his neck in a skiing accident at the age of 19 in 1979 in Cyprus. He was a classical pianist. He was an outdoors person. He held a number of jobs as a 19‑year old guy and was ready to go to university.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16911 This incident happened in his life. It changed his life considerably and he went through seven years of hell. But he came out of that in 1986 and he says, "I want to do something with my life. Just because I can no longer use my arms as fully as I once did and I can't use my legs does it mean I can't do anything?"
LISTNUM 1 \l 16912 So he set about establishing a number of organizations, not intentionally but they evolved into organizations which are now providing services and opportunities for people with significant physical disabilities not only in Vancouver but throughout British Columbia, across Canada, across North America and now around the world.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16913 Some of those organizations which because Sam took off and wanted to run the city I am responsible for. The Disabled Sailing Association of British Columbia was started because Rick Hansen called one day and said, "I have this sailboat that Margaret Thatcher gave me. Can you do anything with it?" Sam turned that into a sailing group out of Jericho which became four more sailing groups in Victoria, Chemainus, Kelowna which became 40 more across Canada, which became 80 in the United States, which became 100 in Europe and is now around the world. And the Paralympics Games now has three sailing events, three classes all because Sam Sullivan said, "Yes, maybe I could do something with this sailboat."
LISTNUM 1 \l 16914 He liked the outdoors. Sam will tell you that there was a time when the best he could do was drive his van with automatic controls. He would drive his van up beside a pine tree and reach through the window as best he could and he would rub the pine needles around his nose. He wanted to find a way to get into the wilderness. So he went and got the help. He got the engineers who built a contraption that we now call the TrailRider which is ecologically capable of transporting people anywhere.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16915 We had a woman from Victoria, a woman with high level muscular sclerosis, MS, make it to the base camp on Mount Everest in November. We have been to the top of Kilimanjaro twice. We are now taking hikers regularly up and down the West Coast Trail and these are people with high level quadriplegia and other serious physical disabilities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16916 But that's not the norm. The norm is people taking TrailRiders to go on a fishing trip with their families, to go to the cabin by the lake, to take a trip through the Seymour Demonstration Forest, to go out to Lighthouse Park in West Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16917 Sam saw the benefit of assisted technology like the TrailRider, little things that can create independence for people with disabilities. He started an organization which today is called the Tetris Society of North America where we enlist the support of volunteer engineers, technicians, other professionals, volunteer support at the grassroots level to create one‑off customized assisted devices for people with disabilities so that they can do things for themselves whether it's recreation, whether it's to do with work, whether it's to watch television, shoot a game of pool. People are being helped as a result of what Sam saw was possible.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16918 We have another organization where we simply focus on gardening. Not everybody likes the outdoors; why not? Sam happened to like this so we have a group that meets regularly. We do workshops on gardening. We have a community garden down on Pacific Boulevard here. We help people. We bring in volunteer gardeners, master gardeners who help people with disabilities create gardens whether it's on a balcony in a single pot or whether it's on a two acre lot that they might have.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16919 We find ways and it's community based. This was Sam's thinking.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16920 On Friday, March 7th, a week tomorrow, Sam will be in Edmonton to pick up yet another award. He is already a member of the Order of Canada. He has won the Terry Fox Award. He has won numerable things for the kind of vision that he has.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16921 On March 7th he will receive the Christopher Reeve award, pretty big stuff. And one of the things that will be recognized there is his word in the area of music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16922 One of the organizations that, again, just evolved is now called the Vancouver Adapted Music Society, VAMS. And it all stemmed from Sam being a musician himself, being a classical pianist, being a guy who played in folk bars and whatnot before he was hurt and he figured, "Just because I can't use my hands anymore or walk, why can't I play music?"
LISTNUM 1 \l 16923 So he formed a band in the early nineties ‑‑ another quad by the name of Dave Symington, he and two other fellows, one of whom is Don Alder who is the world's number one finger picking guitarist who won the title last year after finishing second I think the year before in this competition in the States. Anyway, they formed this group called Spinal Cord and set about to show what is possible. They recorded a couple of CDs. In fact, Sam still gets a cheque every once in a while in the mail, his royalty cheque will come in from SOCAN or whoever it is, and it will be $4.32. They get played still and it's always in Kingston, Ontario and as Sam says, "We are big in Kingston".
LISTNUM 1 \l 16924 So the point is that they made music because they felt they could. Sam felt just because he has a disability is there any reason that he can't write music, produce music, perform music, and the answer is no. And because he was able to show that other people with significant physical disabilities are also involved in music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16925 And the reason I am here today is to support the efforts of this particular applicant and particularly support Mr. Sam Feldman who not for this week, not this year, but many years ago introduced himself to Sam or vice versa and he bought into the idea that people with disabilities can contribute in a musical sense and in many other ways to the community and to the musical community. Sam supported that. He has continuously supported that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16926 So when his organization came to me and said, "Duane, will you come and speak on behalf of our application?" I didn't hesitate. Sure, they said, "Look it, we will give you time. We will give you exposure for your artists." Well, that's a wonderful thing and artists with disabilities are no different than able‑bodied artists. Everybody needs exposure. But I wanted ‑‑ I saw this as an opportunity to reciprocate on the kind of support and the kind of vision that he has had for our organization.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16927 And I second Jim Byrnes' motion wholeheartedly when he says that a man like Sam Feldman has the knowledge and has the backing and has the experience, I think, to put together the kind of company, the kind of radio station that will truly benefit and reflect the kind of community that Vancouver is.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16928 There are two main audiences, I think, that will benefit from ‑‑ or two audiences that will benefit from the exposure that we have said or that Sam and others have said that our artists will receive through their radio station. One of course is the artists themselves and, as I said, they require that exposure. There is the radio station itself. They will be seen as contributing to the community, supportive of the community as a whole.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16929 But there is two other audiences that I think will benefit much, much more. One is other people with physical disabilities. They benefit when they see people like themselves doing things, doing creative things, doing things that people never thought were possible. They might not know one note on a scale from another and music might not be what they are all about.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16930 THE SECRETARY: I'm sorry, can you conclude, please? Your 10 minutes is over.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16931 MR. GEDDES: Pardon me?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16932 THE SECRETARY: Can you conclude? Your 10 minutes is over.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16933 MR. GEDDES: Oh, oh, sure.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16934 THE SECRETARY: Thanks.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16935 MR. GEDDES: Sure. Am I that bad? I was finding it interesting.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 16936 MR. GEDDES: The other audience of course is the larger audience, people who don't have disabilities, who don't know much about physical disabilities. Look, I don't ‑‑ I work in this area. I don't know much about physical disabilities. I don't have one.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16937 But what I do know is that people with disabilities have talent. They are capable of contributing. It might not be in music but in many, many other ways and that is the lesson that I think the larger audience can learn and see, and this is another way for us to breakdown those barriers between the able‑bodied world and the world of people with disabilities and create some integration, much needed integration and another way for Vancouver to lead the world, by the way, in doing those sorts of things.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16938 So I guess I'm over my stay and I will pay my due penance, but I appreciate your time. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16939 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16940 Commissioner Cugini, please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16941 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: It just means, Mr. Geddes, you are going to get the really tough questions.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 16942 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Just kidding.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16943 One of the great things about this job is you really do get to travel the country and learn about great organizations like VAMS. I want to come to the now Burnaby Blues + Roots Festival so it definitely is an advantage of the job.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16944 For both you, Mr. Geddes and Nokony ‑‑ that's how you pronounce it?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16945 MR. NOKONY: Nokony.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16946 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Nokony ‑‑ do you receive support from the existing radio stations in this region currently? I mean we have some pretty big radio broadcasters serving the Vancouver market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16947 MR. NOKONY: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16948 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Do you ‑‑ are your artists ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16949 MR. GEDDES: No.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16950 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: ‑‑ featured on those radio stations or do you receive financial support for your events from those radio stations?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16951 MR. GEDDES: We do. We receive support from the CKNW Orphans' Fund, one of the foundations that that organization has established.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16952 Many years ago QM/FM had a community foundation which provided small grants and they supported us at that time but that was six, seven, eight years ago that that concluded.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16953 The CKNW Orphans' Fund has been a major contributor to the Vancouver Adapted Music Society and other societies for which I am responsible. And I have to commend them for that because they support some of the things we do for kids but they ‑‑ of course their efforts are aimed at that particular part of the market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16954 MR. NOKONY: Yes, again the website will indicate the details that over the eight years that we have had the Burnaby Blues Festival going we have had many media sponsors, AM/FM radio, television and print media. And so, yes, we have received in kind sponsor support from many.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16955 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And Mr. Byrnes, is Shore‑FM the kind of radio station that both you and your daughter would listen to, because you did reference your daughter?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16956 MR. BYRNES: I did, and it is something we have talked about. We often talk about it as we are searching the cyberspace to find music that we like, that we both like and trading one another's iPods and, "Wouldn't it be great if we could just get in the car and flip on the radio and drive up to Whistler and hear you on the radio, Dad."
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 16957 MR. BYRNES: For just ‑‑ for one example that's one thing that we have talked about and it is something that we would both listen to.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16958 Many of our friends the same way, they have very small‑c Catholic tastes in music. They like as I do ‑‑ I don't just want to listen to blues or to country or to gospel music. Yes, I want to hear music from all over the world. I want to hear every style of music. I want to hear music from the heart and I think that this is exactly the sort of station that would provide something that we could both be on the same page with.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16959 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Well, thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16960 Those are all my questions, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16961 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Byrnes, I was very surprised to hear you say that your music is not played on radio, until then I thought about it, that we all know your name but it is difficult to find music ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16962 MR. BYRNES: Yes, really about the only song that I hear is from an album I did 25 years ago that's played on an oldies station. And in the last four years I have won two Juno awards and my ‑‑ you know, I don't want to go on and on about awards and patting my own back but it's just that, you know, I have won awards as an actor, I have got all sorts of exposure but I can't just flip on the radio and maybe hear some of my music. And it's frustrating.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16963 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16964 MR. BYRNES: And I am not the only one. There are so many great artists, the guys that I work with, the producer that I have. A lot of these young kids ‑‑ and they are. I think of them as my sons, you know it's a father and son thing now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16965 I have established a career and I have a career but I want to see something that will bring up these young guys that I'm working with and will give them an opportunity, the forum for them to be heard and to be known. So I think this is a ‑‑ it is a win‑win situation for us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16966 THE CHAIRPERSON: You know I am aware. I live in North Van and I know about the concerts you play and you put on at Deep Cove every year but no sooner than when the sign comes up advertising the concert the sold out sign would be slapped on.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16967 And so despite that popularity I do find it very surprising that there is no ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16968 MR. BYRNES: There is just that ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16969 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, and so I think you were here when we heard from Mr. Ryan Donn when he was saying how he phoned 120 stations and all the reasons why they couldn't play his music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16970 And I don't know you as a very established artist. Do you still make attempts to have the radios play your current music and what ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 16971 MR. BYRNES: Of course we do. You know, I am going back into the studio at the end of May. We are going to put a new ‑‑ you know, if at first you don't succeed try and try again. And hopefully at some point a situation like this will present itself and somebody will go, "I want to hear that."
LISTNUM 1 \l 16972 I played at recently a charity event and these people had bought an evening and it was tied to Robbie Burns Day. I do a Robbie Burns ‑‑ I recite poetry and sing Scottish songs and some of my own tunes too. And once again at this event one of the top financers in the city was there, had bought the evening. And I played and he says, "How come I never hear any of this music?" I said, "Well, I can't really tell you right now but we are going to try to do something about it."
LISTNUM 1 \l 16973 THE CHAIRPERSON: So do you also hear the same reasons, the top one being, "We will have to wait till that song charts" or what excuses do they give someone established like you?
LISTNUM 1 \l 16974 MR. BYRNES: It's not ‑‑ you know they ‑‑ I don't stay around for excuses. I mean we make our presentation and if they play it, they play it. If they don't it's ‑‑ you know it's always, well ‑‑ my last CD I sent to Zach Horowitz who is the head of Universal Music and who I know through my people in the film business. I work in the film business as well. And Zach Horowitz said, "Man, I love this music but, you know, we deal in tonnage."
LISTNUM 1 \l 16975 And that's you know that was an excuse that I got from Zach Horowitz, the President of Universal Music in the United States, "It's not tonnage."
LISTNUM 1 \l 16976 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16977 MR. BYRNES: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16978 THE CHAIRPERSON: I know you are all very, very busy people and I do thank you for taking the time to participate.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16979 MR. BYRNES: And thanks for listening to us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16980 THE SECRETARY: And thank you. We will take a 15‑minute break.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1437 / Suspension à 1437
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1511 / Reprise à 1511
LISTNUM 1 \l 16981 THE SECRETARY: We will now hear the presentations of Nuu‑chah‑nulth Economic Development Corporation, Econoline Crush, 29 Productions Inc. and Boys and Girls Clubs of Greater Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16982 We will start with Nuu‑chah‑nulth Economic Development Corporation. Please introduce yourself and you have 10 minutes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16983 Thank you.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 16984 MR. ANDERSON: Good afternoon. I am Clifford Anderson with the Nuu‑chah‑nulth Economic Development Corporation. We work in lending and economic initiatives with the 14 nations on the west coast of Vancouver Island from Banfield in the south to Kyoquot in the north. Our office is in Tse‑shaht on the outskirts of Port Alberni.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16985 You have already received our submission for support for Rock‑95 outlining some of the skills and benefits that we see with their proposal.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16986 So now I would like to read another letter from the Mowachat/Muchalat First Nation who is one of the villages that is really interested in this:
"Rock‑95 of Barrie, Ontario is applying for the CRTC for a Vancouver radio licence. Another radio station in Vancouver has no significance to the community of Gold River or the life of the Muchalat/Mowachat First Nation on the nearby Sexana Reserve. What is different and significant to our First Nation is the proponent's concept of providing community radio stations as part of their public benefit.
Gold River is 90 kilometres west of Campbell River on Vancouver Island. There is no other community between Campbell River and Russia. Gold River has cable TV and medium speed internet but not so on Sexana. There is no TV, cable or internet services available on the village.
The CRTC has the opportunity to provide a new service to our underserviced location by awarding a radio licence for Vancouver. The public benefit offers our little community a community radio station.
With the Rock‑95 application we supply the transmitter ‑‑ they will supply the transmitter, the broadcast equipment and basic studio. With even more innovation and foresight Rock‑95 will support staffing the station.
The author is the administrator of the Muchalat/Mowachat First Nation and has personal experience in two of the remote communities with local radio stations. For five years he lived in Fort Severn, Ontario, the most northerly community in that province. It is a comparable size to Sexana and similarities based on the remoteness there are very great.
The most effective way to communicate to the people of Fort Severn was via the public announcement over the radio station. Everyone listened to the radio from noon till one and from five to six when the local news views were broadcast. If there was a nursing clinic, a birthday, an anniversary, everyone would know. It was also the way to get news to the people out on the land. The local radio station was simulcast over the TV community cable stations as well. This was effective as most people left their TV tuned to this channel.
The community had the ability to create rolling ads and advertisements on their community's TV stations and I invite Rock‑95 to provide this additional service when we are cabled.
Another benefit of this submission is a feed from the Aboriginal Voices Radio. Unlike Fort Severn, community members regularly listen to CDs of recorded First Nations singing and drumming. Aboriginal Voices Radio would provide another channel for First Nations music not currently available.
The second community in which our author lived was [Cape Cod, Nunavut] Cape Dorset, Nunavut. All of the local broadcasts were in the local language and an available method of keeping the language alive and vibrant. Like the other communities announcements traveled through the community faster than the highest internet speed. He remembers one instance when a bingo was scheduled at the last minute. An announcement went over the radio at noon to broadcast and by four p.m. 100 people were lined up at the door.
A community radio station serves a function that does not exist in the big city. It is more immediate than a community newspaper and works better than print in a community where many are not fully literate. It enhances and observes language. It is the best way to communicate news, birthdays, anniversaries and successful hunting trips. It is a community bulletin board for health notices, band meetings, reports and council‑in‑chiefs. It is an effective way to contact members who do not have phones.
We will receive no benefit from Rock‑95's station in Vancouver but their offer of a community radio station will have immediate and long lasting benefits to our community. The offer providing all the equipment and training and salary for a First Nation community radio station as part of their CRTC application is innovative and is to be praised.
In conclusion, the chief and council fully support the application of Rock‑95 for a commercial radio licence in Vancouver." (As read)
LISTNUM 1 \l 16987 MR. ANDERSON: This is a letter ‑‑ that was the letter from one of the two communities that is signed on at this stage and are really, really interested in the program.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16988 I have four that ‑‑ sort of two more that would be interested but it's at too early a stage for them to know whether it was worth their time to start to go forward with this. I am afraid that maybe it might be too late for them anyway based on this. But hopefully, with the success of those two ‑‑ these two stations, if it got off the ground, that there would be several more communities that would be very, very interested.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16989 From our perspective the development corporation, like I said, you have our letter. There is a lot of significant benefits we can see from such a thing. This is a great communications device that any small community as outlined by the would like to read another letter from the Mowachat/Muchalat it has the potential to build a lot of skills that people in these locations they would not normally have any ability to get, and we are talking about at an early age. They live in a small community and they have only so many skills‑building resources and this is ‑‑ I'm thinking from teenagers to early twenties where these sort of skills being available to them is something that they are not going to get otherwise unless they move to a big city.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16990 And it builds on the interests in the community. It builds on the interests of the culture and it builds on the interest in community pride.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16991 In conclusion, yes, we are in support of Rock‑95.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16992 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16993 We will now hear the presentation of Econoline Crush.
‑‑‑ Video presentation / Présentation vidéo
LISTNUM 1 \l 16994 THE SECRETARY: I would now ask 29 Productions Inc. to make their presentation. You have 10 minutes.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 16995 MR. GROBERMAN: Thanks. Hi, my name is Jory Groberman. I am the owner of a company called 29 Productions, a Vancouver company.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16996 We have been around for about six years. We are a recording studio. We create music and sound design for advertising television, radio and internet. We also create mobile content for cell phones. So we do the ring tones and now video for phones as well. We manage a few artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16997 And specifically the context that I am here to talk about today is I am also the owner and director of the New Music West Festival and Conference.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16998 Now, I should say right off the bat that while I am here in support of the Rock‑95 application I am also in support of the CCD contribution program of Harvard Broadcasting and the Evanov Group. So I am here under this time period for Rock‑95 but all three of those we are ‑‑ those are the ones that we are in favour of.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16999 So New Music West Festival and Conference is the largest new music event in western Canada. It has been around for 17 years. Every year, and the next one is coming up May 14th to 18th, we showcase about 250 emerging artists from across Canada and around the world. That's the festival portion and then there is also a conference and workshops that happen on the Friday, Saturday and Sunday of the week.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17000 We have just finished receiving all of our artist applications. We got over 1,000 this year. They are mainly from Canada but also from the United States, Australia and Europe. 29 Productions bought the event four years ago and so this next one coming up will be our fourth.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17001 We showcase all styles of music including rock, pop, alternative, country, metal, world, dance, DJs and electronic; basically everything except for jazz and classical. The artists are about 80 percent CanCon. They are almost 100 percent emerging or developing artists and about 20 percent are from the U.S., Europe and Australia. Almost every Canadian artist that has achieved any level of success in Canada or abroad has performed at New Music West at some point, including Nickelback, Hot Hot Heat, Matthew Good, Econoline Crush and literally thousands more if you look back over 17 years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17002 Vancouver is a world‑renowned hotbed of talent and independent music activity, but the infrastructure of the entertainment industry and sometimes the support from large sponsors is widely regarded as lacking. I also think that you should always add to the diversity of voices when it comes to media, especially if terrestrial radio is going to be able to keep up with the breadth that the internet now offers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17003 New Music West relies on funding and private support and radio stations as partners; (a) to help spread the word about the festival and the conference; (b) to promote and play music from the festival roster of talented emerging artists and; (c) to help promote the conference and the networking events that are crucial to the development of the artists and the entertainment industry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17004 We are probably one of the very few events where competitive and multiple radio stations will actually get together and partner with us despite competing interests. Three of the largest stations and many of the smaller stations currently operating in Vancouver are working with us for the 2008 festival. This should show the continuing importance of New Music West to Vancouver radio and vice versa.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17005 But while we and the emerging artists greatly appreciate the support of the stations that are currently involved, there are many gaps in the coverage and we need to hit more demographics with new music. And with the possible exception of one, the existing stations are generally not playing the music of these artists on the air.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17006 For this licence application many of the applicants claim to be promoting new and emerging music in Vancouver. Only three of them did the research to discover that New Music West is the largest and most influential new music event in western Canada and that we and the artists desperately need the support of any new radio station that comes to Vancouver. Those three are Rock‑95, Harvard Broadcasting and the Evanov Group.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17007 I find it suspect that we did not even receive an exploratory phone call from any of the other applicants except for maybe one. I think that giving a large amount of funding to a national organization like FACTOR instead of to something more directly involved locally is a bit of an easy out and doesn't foster the community in any way.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17008 I also want to point out that all three of these applicants are proposing at least 40 percent CanCon and a higher than average commitment to emerging artists, especially the Rock‑95 group who is proposing an amazing 50 percent emerging artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17009 What the music community in Vancouver needs is local support, local promotion and local connections with advertisers and sponsors. Conversely, the connection between local radio and artists' involvement will attract listeners and advertisers to these stations. Advertisers look to connect with people in a local, meaningful grassroots kind of way because then it has impact on their daily lives. Artists and their passion provide that connection.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17010 The most commercially successful FM stations in Vancouver are not coincidentally the ones supporting New Music West and making their presence felt on the street.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17011 I think that's all I will say at this point, and thanks very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17012 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17013 We will now hear the presentation of the Boys and Girls Clubs of Greater Vancouver. Please introduce yourself and you have 10 minutes.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 17014 MS TUCKWELL: Hi. I am Carolyn Tuckwell. I am the CEO with the Boys and Girls Clubs of Greater Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17015 First, thank you so much for the opportunity to present here today. I have provided a copy of my presentation for future reference so I will try and just hit the high points.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17016 Boys and Girls Clubs of Greater Vancouver is an organization that has been in this community for 70 years. Our focus is to provide after school, evening, weekend programs, in particular, in neighbourhoods where we know vulnerability exists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17017 The model is that no one is turned away due to an inability to pay. And what that means is that after school kids can come to our clubs and to our programs, regardless of their circumstances, and participate in programs that help to promote their physical, emotional, social development in an environment where they feel comfortable.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17018 We have a very diverse population that matches the demographics of Vancouver. There are more than 40 languages spoken across our six neighbourhood‑based clubs and our programs.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17019 In addition to our neighbourhood club‑based programs that really focus on school‑aged children, we also offer drug and alcohol councilling programs for youth. Those programs are in the inner city, in Mount Pleasant, in North Burnaby and actually on the downtown east side serving the core area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17020 Those programs focus on youth who are struggling with all sorts of challenges, the things you see in the newspaper every day.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17021 These are kids that are lost and really looking for and needing a connection with help that will get them back on a path for, hopefully, a better future.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17022 Our work is very much preventative as opposed to intervention based. And what means is that we strive to be there for kids every single day and to be there in a way that works for them and provides them with positive role models and opportunities to explore things that they wouldn't otherwise be exposed to.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17023 So, when we think about offering programs, we are always striving to offer programs that are going to appeal to kids today.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17024 Doesn't matter if they liked it yesterday, if it isn't new and interesting and something different, they're likely to stray from us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17025 And ideally, when you're working with youth and you're trying to keep kids off the street, you're offering the latest and the newest.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17026 We're struck time and time again about how music is almost universally appealing to kids and speaks to them in a way that often I'm struck by how as I get older, I'm no longer nearly as appealing as I used to be to those kids.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17027 So, it's an opportunity to really engage kids in a whole way that's different and new to them and that they can relate to.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17028 We're particularly excited about this proposal and about the potential to partner in the way that's been outlined in this application because it provides us yet another opportunity to engage kids in a way that they wouldn't otherwise be able to be engaged.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17029 We have a proven track record in providing programs to children and youth that relate to music. We always seek out partners to help us to offer those programs.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17030 So, over the years we've worked with many partners, individuals and groups to provide programs that expose kids to learning to play music, choir and singing programs, even programs that help them to learn to write and produce their own music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17031 And right now we have a new program that's just started in one of our Mount Pleasant clubs that's exposing kids through a partnership to learning to play guitar and exploring a whole new kind of side of music for them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17032 So, I guess that gives you a little bit of a sense of our organization and what we're always trying to do.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17033 I thought that maybe a couple of stories might bring it to life for you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17034 So, the first story that I think illustrates the need and why we would be particularly supportive and interested in this proposal has to do with this past Christmas day where I was in one of our clubs, which is open on Christmas day for kids who don't have anywhere else to be. It's not their fault, it's just the way their lives have dealt the cards to them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17035 And I was sitting in amongst a group of youths and there was a 17‑year‑old girl there who ‑‑ you might expect kids in that environment to feel sort of sad or to be depressed and upset, but this girl was so excited about her iPod, about the music that she was listening to and you could see in her eyes the light that related to the fact that here's something that doesn't matter what's happening in the rest of her life, she has this lifeline that comes to her when she needs it through music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17036 And we're often struck by that, that that provides a level playing field for kids because they can all relate in their own ways to their favourite artist, to music that they can relate to.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17037 And we know that the opportunity to connect a child like that with the potential to explore music in a different way is something that she won't get outside of our club.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17038 And, so, it's potentially a path for her that might see her to a future that's different than the one that is presenting to her right now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17039 The second example I have illustrates that I think at the next level, and that's that the new Canadian Idol Brian Melo is an alumni of Boys & Girls Clubs in Hamilton. He credits his success and who he is today to the experiences and support that he had going through the Boys & Girls Clubs as a child.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17040 So, he knew that when he left school at the end of the day he had the club to go to, the club that helped him to develop and explore what his strengths and abilities were and to have the hope and the confidence to pursue his dream in music. And he's living that now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17041 And, of course, we're all sort of hanging out the flag of the Canadian Idol being a Boys & Girls Club, but what it reminds us is that hope is there in every child and it keeps us moving to try and support these kinds of proposals that might connect our kids closer to something that might be their future, whether that's behind the scenes in the business of a radio station, or whether it's performing music themselves, it's a way out for them and it's exposure that's important.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17042 So, that's why we're here in support of this proposal.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17043 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17044 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Williams, please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17045 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17046 I'll start with Mr. Hurst (sic), he's not here, I have no questions for him.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 17047 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I enjoyed his presentation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17048 Mr. Groberman, you talked about ROCK 95, Harvard and Evanov and that you would support all of them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17049 If you, out of the three, had to support just one of them, which one would you be in support of?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17050 MR. GROBERMAN: I knew you were going to ask that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17051 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17052 MR. GROBERMAN: And I'm wondering if you want to hear what we would do with each of the stations, or each of the applicants as far as a program?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17053 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. We can do what you want after you answer the question.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17054 MR. GROBERMAN: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17055 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or that could be part of your answer, if you like.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17056 MR. GROBERMAN: Yeah. My answer to that question is that format‑wise the ROCK 95 application fits best with what we do.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17057 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fair deal. Now, go ahead, what would you do with each of the others?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17058 MR. GROBERMAN: So, with ROCK 95 the format fits extremely well for supporting emerging local artists through New Music West and year‑round. ROCK 95 would help put on a secondary New Music West type event in the fall and would feature a large amount of local talent on the air, which is something that we're missing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17059 And I'm thinking for ROCK 95's proposal as being similar to KCRW in L.A., which has become sort of a legendary station internationally. People listen to it online now as someone that breaks new talent around the world. I would love to see something like that coming out of Canada, wherever it is.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17060 The Harvard proposal with JANE FM, we would increase the amount of artists that we can promote, so we would expand from, say, about 250 artists now up to around 300 artists and get closer to the size of an event like this that they have in Toronto. And we would specifically provide stages for female focus show cases.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17061 I'd guess that we're currently about 65/35 in favour of male artists at the festival, and attracting that same split in the audience that shows up. Working with Harvard would help even that out.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17062 And then with the Evanov Group, since they're a youth‑oriented format, we would expand the youth‑oriented aspect of New Music West.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17063 So often the actual ‑‑ the real entertainment industry is a mystery to kids because all they see and read and hear about is the smoke and mirrors of television, and with this program we would be able to add more all ages shows, which we rarely do.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17064 We would involve a younger demographic in the conference and workshops and create programs specifically for them with regards to building musical skills and knowledge and connections for an actual behind‑the‑scenes entertainment industry experience.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17065 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you see a way that you can work with the Boys & Girls Club in their initiative?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17066 MR. GROBERMAN: I was going to ask her for her card afterwards because I thought maybe we could do something, yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17067 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17068 Ms Tuckwell, you talked about Brian Melo. Has any thought been given to, if this application was successful and your initiative, of course, was launched, to getting someone of his stature involved to help kick start this initiative?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17069 MS TUCKWELL: Absolutely. And that's a great question.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17070 We are part of a national movement, so even though each of our organizations is distinct, we all participate as part of the Boys & Girls Clubs of Canada and they're working hard to connect with, not only Brian Melo, but other people like him who have come through our clubs and been successful, to develop those longer‑term relationships.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17071 So, those are exactly the kinds of connections that we would want to draw in to help to build our success here and to connect.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17072 So, I know that he's tied up in his contract for the year, but we are keen to make sure we take advantage of all of those kinds of connections to really give kids a vision of what the hope they can have, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17073 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17074 I'm sorry, is your name Mr. Little.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17075 MR. ANDERSON: Anderson.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17076 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anderson. I'm so sorry, the letter was signed Mr. Little and I missed your introduction.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17077 Mr. Anderson, the Nuu‑chah‑nulth Economic Development, okay, you talked about some of the communities like Mowachut...
LISTNUM 1 \l 17078 MR. ANDERSON: Mowachut Matchalot.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17079 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mowachut Matchalot not having Internet or cable TV. Are you aware of companies like, say, Barrett Explore Net that provide a satellite‑driven Internet service or Star Choice or Bell ExpressVu that do the same in television and there's also some audio portions to those programmings?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17080 MR. ANDERSON: Through the development corporation we don't usually deal much with this side of things. Given ‑‑ in discussions with the Mowachut Matchalot Chief and Council I would say no, that they don't.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17081 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The reason I bring it to your attention is because you said there was absolutely no radio, TV or Internet.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17082 MR. ANDERSON: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17083 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And there are alternatives, they work very well on Vancouver Island, I guess is what I'm putting forward to you as information.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17084 The importance of a small local radio station to a small remote community is something you talked a lot about.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17085 In the two communities that you've engaged support from, what type of mechanism was done just to see if it was felt that this would be a good idea. Did you just approach the Band Council, or go further than that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17086 MR. ANDERSON: It's gone through us and then we've talked with Chief and Council and Staff and developed ideas from there and, like I said, it definitely was the communities that were most interested that stepped forward.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17087 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will there be a central coordinating group? I'll give an example. I'm from the western Northwest Territories, there's a Native Communications Society, the Western and WT and they serve 27 small and remote communities or, I guess 25 small remote and two larger communities and in almost all cases they're the only game in town.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17088 But they found that they needed to have a central group just to make the economies of scale work for all these stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17089 So, would the Nuu‑chah‑nulth Development Corporation be providing that role?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17090 MR. ANDERSON: We're providing part of that role. As far as the whole start‑up structure, we're there to support them. We're hoping that it takes off and that they'd be able to go on their own from there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17091 Looking at the whole thing, it's been quite flexible and they were hoping to use the Voices one if their local production isn't 12 hours or 24 hours and that sort of thing. Because, like, Mowachut have stated that his past experience with the northern bands was that it was only two hours a day, but it was still very, very helpful to them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17092 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I think that covers my questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17093 I'm glad you changed it to Cape Dorset, I'd never heard of a Cape Cod and I lived in the north for 40 years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17094 But thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17095 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much for your time in coming to participate.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17096 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17097 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17098 I would now call Pete Mason, Sarah Seage and Brenda‑Lee Sasaki to appear as a panel.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17099 We will start with the presentation of Pete Mason. You have 10 minutes for your presentation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17100 Thank you.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 17101 MR. MASON: Yeah. I'm from the band Myztery, I'm also a composer/recording artist, member of SOCAN and the Vancouver Musicians' Association and, anyways, I'm glad to be here.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17102 I just want to start by saying my favourite station is ROCK 101, but I think they should change the name to TALK 101. Too much commercials. Anyway, that's my opinion. Good tunes though.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17103 And I love rock, that's my style, I know how to rock. I've been in rock bands since grade 6. My brother sang with D.O.A., Joey "Shithead", et cetera, et cetera.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17104 I'm here to say that I think that the application for this particular group which is In‑House should be seriously considered.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17105 Now, you might ask why; isn't there enough Christian stuff happening? Well, the answer in my opinion, no.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17106 KYLN is a lousy station now because you can't even hear it right. I drove on the way down here listening to various songs and it's all garbled, gobbledy‑gook, I mean, it's garbage. I would never listen to that. If I was producing the album, I'd say get out of here, get out of my face.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17107 So, any Christian in his right mind would be absolutely insane to listen to that station unless they're extremely desperate to hear something Christin.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17108 The other station is KARI which plays very boring, old fashioned Christian music which I'm not into, although some of the old songs are nice.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17109 How many minutes do I have? Anyway, I'm all right there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17110 Now, so, okay. I love rock, as I say, but I think ROCK 101 is a great station. I think they need to cut some of the commercials down, cut some of the talk down, but they play the best music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17111 I don't think we need another rock station. We've got ROCK 101, we've got CFOX, we've got ‑‑ I mainly listen to ROCK 101 ‑‑ but I'm sure there's a whole mess of them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17112 I recently got back from Toronto and I think Vancouver needs to learn a lesson from Toronto because Toronto totally blows away Vancouver, in my opinion, in terms of radio programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17113 But I'll get to my point. I publish an Internet ezine, it's the No. 1 Christian site in the world and we have over 20,000 subscribers. We get 1,200 people a month. I get letters, e‑mails from Indi artists all over the world wanting me to promote their music and I know these guys, this station is interested in working with us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17114 We've got a lot of Canadian talented young people, I know a lot of them and if this station is approved we can promote them. It will be good for Canadian talent, and that's a really big thing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17115 You know, talk about diversity, yada, yada, yada, but to add another AAA ‑‑ whatever the heck you call the things ‑‑ rock station is not going to make it a very diverse situation, it's going to be the same old, same old.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17116 Yes, there might be some new Indi artists that are played, but why doesn't ROCK 101 play more Indi artists? Why doesn't the ROCK CFOX play more Indi artists? They can do that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17117 So, I think a lot of it's politics myself, and this wasn't rehearsed, but that's just the way I am, I just talk my mind, okay, whether you like it or not I really don't care.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17118 So, I think that's ‑‑ it would be a wise choice. I'm a very open person, although you might think I'm opinionated, but I really do believe that this station would be different than the Christian schlock that comes out of the States because I don't like a lot of what's passed off as American Christian music, it's garbage, it's not good music, it's boring Nashville pablum.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17119 We need real music with real intelligent lyrics. In fact, I actually like some of the Native songs on that Native station better than a lot of the Christian stuff because it's better music. You know, they go: "Hi‑yi‑yi‑yi, Hi‑yi‑yi‑yi", it's got reality to it. That wasn't scripted either.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17120 But, anyways I think I've got, how many minutes left?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17121 THE CHAIRPERSON: So, I just want to be clear, you don't like the U.S. gospel music?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17122 MR. MASON: No, I didn't say that. Words are very important. I love a lot of American ‑‑ don't get ‑‑ I love Americans too, most of my relatives are from the States.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17123 I'm just saying a lot of the stuff that comes out of the American radio stations is boring, it's not good, they don't even know how to rock these so‑called Christian rockers. They don't know how to rock because they've grown up with, what did they grow up? Nothing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17124 I mean, Petra comes close sometimes, but not even they do justice to rock.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17125 So, but I'm not here to talk about rock, I'm just saying, look, think about it, we don't need another rock station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17126 And I apologize to the guys that are coming after me, I think he's a great guy, the RockSTAR guys, I think that's cool. But we really don't need another rock station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17127 I think ROCK 101 is No. 1. Mind you, I'm a little bit older, I'm biased, but what we need is something a little bit different and these guys, in my opinion, are offering something...
LISTNUM 1 \l 17128 Now to be fair, I don't know what all the other stations are promoting, maybe there's some really cool stuff there, I don't know. I wish I could speak to all of that, but I don't know what all the other stations are offering.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17129 I know what these guys are offering and for our people, we get millions of hits a year, hundreds of thousands a month and I'm very busy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17130 But I'm glad I came down here and I don't know what these guys are going to say, maybe they might contradict me, maybe they love American Christian music. I don't know.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17131 I like John Michael Talbott, he's No. 1 and I think I'm finished.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17132 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17133 THE SECRETARY: Thank you. We'll now hear the presentation of Sarah Seage.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 17134 MS SEAGE: Hi. I'm Sarah and I have something very different to say.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17135 I represent ‑‑ I'm here because I'm representing youth and young adults in the lower mainland and what I do is I am a youth minister and mentor.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17136 And, so, I run a program called Youth Church, which is not a youth group which is usually associated with a larger body church, but we are a church ourselves based out of youth and young adults.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17137 So, we range from 15‑year‑olds to 25‑year‑olds with adults in our congregation as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17138 And, so, it's really neat as I get to sit here and represent the campus that I work for which is in Surrey and Whalley/Guildford area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17139 We also have a location in Cloverdale, a location in East Vancouver and I will be pioneering a new campus starting in White Rock. And, so, I come from a big demographic reaching youth and young adults.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17140 And, so, I'm here to say that I think a great Christian radio station would be an awesome addition to the radio and I know that's needed to bring inspiration and encouragement, which is something different than what we get on the radio right now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17141 I also just want to say that as a young person I drive a 95‑year‑old vehicle, so my car doesn't have a CD player ‑‑ it was from 1995, so I don't have a CD player. I do have a radio, radio comes in every vehicle that you buy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17142 And, so, me being a young person also I like things that are cheap, things that are free. So, radio is free, it's free for young people, it's free for youth.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17143 With this Internet rising up, being really popular, iPods, I know it's probably something that's going to be addressed, what young people listen to the radio nowadays? Well, a lot of people still do because it's free and it's cheap and you can turn it on anywhere you are, whether you're in your home, whether you're in your car, whether you're at work, it's playing in the stores that young people are employed at. So, that's awesome.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17144 I don't get any Christian radio stations in my car and I drive all over the city, all over the lower mainland. Praise 106.5 out of Washington, I get it on sunny days but I don't get it on rainy days. And living in Vancouver, it doesn't rain but it pours and, so, I don't get Christian radio pretty much anywhere unless it's early, sunny clear day.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17145 So, that being said, I think that if we got a Vancouver one here with In‑House Communications I think it would be really positive and it would reach a lot of young people.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17146 And one thing with our church is we have an awesome music program and we do that Sunday nights and we're reaching over 400 youth and young adults in the lower mainland with our programs just run strictly on Sunday nights.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17147 And I think it would be awesome and really productive to have a source of Christian music and inspirational talk, Canadian based available to youth and young adults not just through their churches or through their iPods, but through any time they want, just flick on the station and be able to access that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17148 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17149 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17150 We'll now hear the presentation of Brenda‑Lee Sasaki.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 17151 MS SASAKI: Thank you. I'm Brenda Sasaki, I represent the mom here.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17152 In any given moment on any given day the radio airwaves surround us and they carry words and ideas, they carry sounds, talks, opinions, issues and, if we're lucky, even some music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17153 In our homes, in our cars, through our iPods and computers it surrounds us, it lightens our days, it updates us on the traffic and news and it challenges us, it informs us, it entertains us and, yes, it offends us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17154 You know what, I love radio, especially talk radio. I love the idea of hearing from people across our province and beyond. I love topics of interest that are discussed and debated and I love all kinds of music from pop to classical to world music, to even spiritual music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17155 As a parent of three elementary school‑aged children, I am in my van an awful lot. I drive to school and hockey practice, to swimming lessons, to over‑nighters, to the grocery store, to work, to the dentist, to Grandma's house and as we drive we listen to the radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17156 Well not so much any more because the truth is I really can only have two stations on my radio because the other AM and FM stations are often so unpredictable, often questionable and highly offensive and I don't want my children hearing what's going on there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17157 I can handle it, but while I like to be able to have teachable moments for my kids, some of it is so inappropriate that I can't even go there with them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17158 For example, last Monday as I was driving in my van after picking up my five‑year‑old from kindergarten at 11:45, heading to daycare we flicked on the radio stations looking for something to listen to and we heard, "I like big butts and I cannot lie".
LISTNUM 1 \l 17159 And my five‑year‑old was very interested in that and, yet, I believe that she doesn't need to be repeating that down at daycare, so we had to quickly have a discussion about that and move on to the next station. She doesn't need to hear how a rap artist likes to be turned on by big butt rapster girls.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17160 Some of our radio stations I dare not even turn to with my 10‑year‑old. Some of the stations pride themselves on being offensive and shocking. And even certain soft rock stations, which I like to listen to in the afternoons, I have to be careful with my eight‑year‑old so he doesn't hear, "Sexual Healing" or "Afternoon Delight" on the way to swimming lessons.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17161 As someone who works with kids in my job I make a point of knowing what kids are listening to, to new artists, to new groups. I'm on the computer, I have my own iPod, I even know how to use it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17162 I like to know what's current, what's fresh, what's old school and there is some really great music out there that is appropriate, that's encouraging, that's musically and lyrically actually fantastic.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17163 But our current radio station formats have no avenue for this music to be played and for positive spiritually‑based music to be heard.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17164 I need radio ‑‑ I would like to see a radio that allows for faith‑based discussions to take place without being labelled fanatical, phobic or worse.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17165 In this amazing city in which we live we make room for ethnic stations like French or Chinese or Indian, for a variety of talk stations that carry all kinds of news, all sports, all traffic. We have dozens of music stations catering to rock, to pop, to country, to jazz, to classical, easy listening and the oldies, but we have no place for Christian‑based music to be experienced.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17166 There's no place for our local faith communities to share ideas and to encourage either other. No place to send my kids to to listen to music and talk without being hyper vigilant and there's no place for emerging local faith‑based artists to be heard and played.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17167 As a West Coaster I too identify with our collective sense of being forward thinking, of being creative, of being cutting edge and I think it's time for our radio dial to reflect that reality and make room for a faith‑based spiritual station that positively adds to the fabric of our city.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17168 I've read through the application for In‑House Communications and was very interested when they contacted me. I believe they have a heart and they have a vision. I believe they have a well thought‑out plan and they have clear implementation process and I believe that community involvement and support is key to them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17169 As a parent, as a music lover, as a fan of radio, as a working mom, as a West Coaster and a follower of Christ, I'm asking you to grant and consider this application on In‑House Communications.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17170 Thanks for your time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17171 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17172 Commissioner Duncan, please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17173 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Thank you for coming this afternoon and I'll start with Mr. Mason.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17174 I'm just interested in, you are a rock musician?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17175 MR. MASON: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17176 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: And, so, is there a lot of rock music that would fall in the Christian music category?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17177 MR. MASON: I don't follow a lot of the so‑called Christian rock because I don't really like it that much, per se. As a musician, I find it's lacking, but there is a lot of so‑called Christian rock artists. I know them because I promote them, it doesn't mean I like what they do entirely, but there is definitely a large amount of bands that are under that Christian rock label. And that was my point earlier that, yeah, there's a lot of rock artists. I don't know ‑‑ yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17178 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Just tell me a little bit about your Internet business. You do the supports ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 17179 MR. MASON: Yeah. Well, what it is, I started a website back in the year 2000 and I studied search engine optimization, so I learned how to market websites, so I got it to be the No. 1 for Christian music in the world on Google, MSN and Yahoo, which results in pretty massive traffic.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17180 And because of that I get approached by a lot of people all over the world to promote their music, their products even ‑‑ which has now led to advertise ‑‑ we've got revenue ‑‑ advertising revenue coming in, hint hint, for different people want to promote whatever the heck they're promoting.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17181 But I have morales too, I don't promote, you know, dishwashing soap or something ‑‑ well, nothing wrong with that, whatever. It's got to be relevant to music. So that's what I do, yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17182 Sorry, did I ramble there?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17183 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: No. I'm just trying to reconcile the ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 17184 MR. MASON: Oh, you don't get the connection.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17185 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: I'm just trying, let's say.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17186 MR. MASON: Well, there is a relation because the Internet ‑‑ I mean, we do music, right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17187 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17188 MR. MASON: That's a whole ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 17189 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: No, the relationship between the rock music and the Christian music that In‑House might play, there is an adequate inventory that would cause this...
LISTNUM 1 \l 17190 MR. MASON: Oh yes, definitely. They've got ‑‑ I mean, I'm sure they could speak to that. I don't know all the artists they lined up but I know some of them. There's a lot.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17191 In fact, Christian rock is actually, I think they're making tonnes of money. You see, these rock bands charge 30 grand a show to play at your local church, some of them, you know, that are big.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17192 What's the biggest one? I can't remember, what were they called? Not Newsboys, it's another name. But I've looked at a contract rider, it looks like the Rolling Stones or something, it's like pretty ‑‑ it's pretty high end stuff.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17193 No, there's a lot of really good Christian rock bands that are out there. Pardon my ignorance, I just don't ‑‑ I follow more the secular rock world because that's what I'm in.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17194 We're currently not allowed to play in churches in Vancouver, our band, but that's besides the point.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17195 I'm going to write a book one day, so...
LISTNUM 1 \l 17196 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Did you look at the Touch Broadcasting application, Touch Canada?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17197 MR. MASON: Touch Canada, you mean the other Christian station?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17198 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17199 MR. MASON: I've heard about it. I honestly ‑‑ I wish I could say I have. I really don't ‑‑ I don't ‑‑ I can't say I've looked at it much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17200 I've heard though that they don't ‑‑ they're not putting as much money in and their Canadian content is half of what I guess we're offering which is 20 per cent, they're offering only 10 per cent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17201 So, to me, if I was you ‑‑ not that I'm you ‑‑ but if I was I'd say, okay, I'd obviously go for the 20 per cent Cancon than 10 per cent because 20 is better than 10, in my opinion as a Canadian. Anything else is irrelevant, in my opinion.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17202 I mean, it's just ‑‑ pardon my frankness, but...
LISTNUM 1 \l 17203 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: That's fine. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17204 Maybe I could ask the other two ladies, Ms Seage, is it?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17205 Did you look at the ‑‑ consider the Touch Broadcasting when you were deciding to come and support In‑House, did you consider the other applicant?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17206 MS SEAGE: Yeah, I do know a little bit about them. Refine FM or the In‑Hour Communications, because it has such a huge focus on the youth culture that is what I'm in support of because that's what I'm in.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17207 They're dedicating their nights to provide relevant music for youth and young adults and, so, I'm in total support of that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17208 And also, like, I live in Canada, I've been in Ontario living and here in Vancouver and, so, the Canadian aspect, like he just mentioned, is really important.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17209 And as a musician myself, as a singer in the Christian industry, I'm not famous, I'm nothing, but we have a CD out, we have youth that listen and know our individual songs and stuff like that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17210 So, to have up and coming artists be able to be played, especially Vancouver‑based and Surrey‑based or whatever, that's awesome, so I'm in support of that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17211 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: What type of style would you ‑‑ how would you describe your music? Is it rock or...?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17212 MS SEAGE: No, it's worship music. So, when it comes to Christian music it's praise, it's worship, it's songs from the heart.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17213 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17214 Mrs. Sasaki, did you look at the Touch Broadcasting application?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17215 MS SASAKI: No, I didn't actually. I just looked at the In‑House one and they sent it to me and I was very impressed with what they're offering.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17216 I work with kids in a church and, so, I know what's out there. I go to a lot of different churches and I hear the music and the styles that are being played.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17217 I believe there's a lot of Canadian artists, I know a number of them even in our own church who produce their own albums and CDs, just really talented people wanting to be heard and have all different kind of style from, I would say, you know, Sarah McLachlan to Barenaked Ladies and we rock out, yeah. So, we can rock.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17218 MR. MASON: I can get heavier than that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17219 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: We have quite a challenge here because there's, as you know, very few frequencies available in the market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17220 MS SASAKI: Mm‑hmm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17221 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: So, I'm just interested if any of you or all of you would care to give us some advice on what we might do with those limited frequencies?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17222 MR. MASON: Are you asking us?
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 17223 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17224 MS SASAKI: I think I want to speak first.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17225 MR. MASON: I'll tell you, give it to this man right here, that's all I'm telling you. That's your good choice.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17226 If you ask me why I'll tell you why, but he should...
LISTNUM 1 \l 17227 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: I guess I'm talking about in terms of, you know, considering the whole market and it's a full market and there's very few frequencies left.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17228 MS SASAKI: There is no Christian radio station in the lower mainland. There is nothing ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 17229 MR. MASON: Precisely.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17230 MS SASAKI: There's nothing that offers any faith‑based spiritual content. There is 106.5 from the States and, like it's been said before, the frequency is so clouded that it's very difficult to hear in my car, it depends where I am I can hear it. I can't get it in my house at all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17231 So, a lot of talk radio on it, not so much music. That's all that we have. There is nothing like that in Vancouver area, in the West Coast, in the lower mainland.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17232 MR. MASON: And it would work better than the one Jim Pattison did, I can tell you that much too.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17233 MS SEAGE: Well, talking about 600 AM the Bridge, which used to be our local Christian radio station, like I had an opportunity when I was a youth to be on that station and to announce songs and stuff like that. It was a great opportunity and then having that taken away and really left with nothing except static on a station that I try and find from the States just isn't good enough, it doesn't cut it any more.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17234 So, I suggest a Christian radio station because we don't have an alternative to that, unless we switch to downloading our own music or just sitting in front of our computers, so...
LISTNUM 1 \l 17235 COMMISSIONER DUNCAN: Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17236 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Williams, please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17237 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good afternoon.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17238 Mr. Mason, you've been very open with us and thank you for your candour ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 17239 MR. MASON: You're welcome.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17240 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: ‑‑ and honesty. You say you're not allowed to play in any of the churches in Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17241 MR. MASON: That's correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17242 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have you performed in any Christian music events or churches in the past?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17243 MR. MASON: Oh yes, I have. I've played in churches, in schools in the lower mainland of B.C., right across Canada from Vancouver to Newfoundland, from California to Phoenix, Arizona and all the way back to Tacoma.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17244 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And, so...
LISTNUM 1 \l 17245 MR. MASON: I've done conventions, prayer groups, conferences, healing masses. I've seen people heal physically, I've seen miracles happen.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17246 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, why won't they have you in them any more?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17247 MR. MASON: That's a long story which I'm going to tell on Oprah Winfrey one day.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17248 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sounds good.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 17249 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. How did you come about making the decision to support this Christian radio station?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17250 MR. MASON: How did I make the decision?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17251 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17252 MR. MASON: Well, I can't remember how we met, somehow we got in touch with each other. Like I say, I hear from a lot of folks. I think they approached me because I have ‑‑ we have a lot of influence in the world with Christian music, we are the No. 1 website in the world, last time I checked anyway, I occasionally check, but I know we are because we still get tonnes of people.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17253 So, what we do has influence, so we can put a lot of pressure on people ‑‑ not that we're pressuring you ‑‑ but I just mean, you know, if people do things we don't like, we can let them know and if we like something, we'll promote it and people will know.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17254 So, you know, we saw it as a great opportunity for them and for us because we believe in emerging artists, this catch phrase, we were talking about that earlier, what the heck is an emerging artist and when have you made it? Do you need the Diamond Platinum album to make it? I don't know what the definition is, but all I'm telling is that I'm always in touch with emerging artists and I think our band is an emerging artist.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17255 Now, we're doing a different thing than the Christian thing because we're not allowed to do the Christian thing. We tried that for a while.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17256 Even Pink Floyd's first concert was in a church hall. But we don't seem to be ‑‑ that's not our focus, our focus is other stuff.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17257 But I still support the Christian music because that's what one of our websites is all about. So, that's how ‑‑ somehow they found us, I suppose, by searching for music or something and it went from there. So, I really like these folks, and even if they don't ‑‑ even if you don't give it to them, we're still going to do something, but it won't be as good because it will just be an Internet thing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17258 But I personally would love to see ‑‑ I mean, look it, I didn't even say this. I used to broadcast my own radio show. You know what I had to do, go to Blaine, drive to Blaine every month with all my shows that I made. Why? Because Vancouver doesn't allow Christian stations. Oh lovely. What the heck is this, a Communist country?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17259 So, anyways, sorry, it just bugs me. Everything's fine, you can be all this and that and everything, but as soon as you want to say anything about Jesus you just get shot down.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17260 What about John Lennon, he said Jesus was kind of cool. Bono, read his bio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17261 So, please don't be afraid of offending people with the name of Jesus because that's a lot of crap. Besides this is a so‑called Christian country.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17262 I'm going to stop talking now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17263 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Thank you for that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17264 MR. MASON: You're welcome.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 17265 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry, I forgot your name on the end.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17266 MS SEAGE: Sarah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17267 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sarah, do you go to Mr. Mason's website?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17268 MS SEAGE: No.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17269 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now that you know about it, will you go?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17270 MS SEAGE: I'm in no need to find music on the Internet, so I don't need to. If I'm on the Internet looking for music, it's songs that I want to sing and I want to know the lyrics to or songs that I want to learn how to play on my guitar. So, I'm looking for cord charts.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17271 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: More worship music?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17272 MS SEAGE: Yeah.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17273 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17274 Those are my questions, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17275 THE CHAIRPERSON: Once again, I truly do ‑‑ I sincerely appreciate the diverse views and your taking your time and, you know, gospel music and for all of the values that you seem to connote is not an easy topic and people don't really ‑‑ it takes courage to express your views and I appreciate that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17276 Thank you very much for your time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17277 THE SECRETARY: I will now call RockSTAR Music Corporation, Ron Taverner, Elise Estrada.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17278 We will start with the presentation of RockSTAR Music Corporation.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 17279 MR. HEKTOEN: Good afternoon, Madam Chair and fellow Members on the dias there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17280 My name is Michael Hektoen, I'm with a company called RockSTAR Music Corporation. I'm the President and the CEO.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17281 RockSTAR is based in Vancouver, Canada. We're an independent company that works in a number of different music‑related media, including having our own iTunes site, pure track sites, Amazon sites and a direct relationship now with Wal‑Mart in the United States.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17282 Our company was founded by myself and Adam Hurstfield. I would like to take this opportunity to apologize that both Adam and Elise Estrada cannot be here, not for any terrible reason, but for quite frankly a very lovely story, and that is that Elise Estrada in less than a year has become one of the top emerging artists in Canada. In less than six months she has had two ‑‑ excuse me now, three top 10 records one of which was No.l Cancon for four weeks in a row on Media Base.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17283 She's currently No. 2 with her third single on Billboard Charts and on Cancon on Media Base and BDS.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17284 I might also add that she'll be performing in Calgary and Edmonton collectively in front of 10,000 people over the next two days.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17285 Next week she has been honoured with two nominations for the Canadian Radio Broadcasters Awards, she will be appearing at the Crystal Ballroom at the event and she has been invited by CNW to appear with Alanis Morisette, Finger Eleven and herself at the live concert next Friday evening.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17286 RockSTAR itself is a company that was created as a farm team system. By way of how we came to being RockSTAR is, I've been in the music business for 35 plus years, more recently I've become a permanent resident in Canada by way of New York.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17287 I've owned one of the world's largest recording studies, Media Sound in Manhattan that recorded approximately two per cent of all the hit records of all genre in the world for a number of years, and have managed such groups as Kool and the Gang, the Manhattans and have given council to literally hundreds of individuals and people.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17288 We are very proud to be intervening on the part of Evanov Group. We have had the privilege of working with them in other markets, which I will go into very shortly.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17289 If you would indulge me, I would like to take the opportunity to read from two records which have been submitted to the Committee.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17290 The first one is from Elise Estrada and I will only read a particular paragraph from each of the two documents.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17291 This document is Intervention No. 1052.
"Of all of RockSTAR's artists, I am most grateful to Evanov for inviting me to perform at Summer Rush in front of thousands of people. I was fortunate enough to perform in Toronto and Halifax with big names like Enrique Iglasias and Rhianna. It was an amazing experience which couldn't have occurred without Evanov's support. The tour helped expose me and I held the No. 1 Cancon single on top 40 charts for four weeks." (As read)
LISTNUM 1 \l 17292 MR. HEKTOEN: I'll reiterate that since this letter was written it's now No. 2, hopefully No. 1 next week.
"And I have also landed two nominations for this year's Canadian Music Awards. Of course, I am just one of the many independent Canadian artists' success stories made possible by the Evanov Group." (As read)
LISTNUM 1 \l 17293 MR. HEKTOEN: The next sentence or paragraph is from my business partner, Adam Hurstfield, this is listed on your intervention document 873.
"Evanov Radio has been extremely supportive of the independent music scene in Canada and has been instrumental in breaking our acts into the national level. Thanks to Evanov's stations, RockSTAR Music Corp. led the way with the most nominations for the 2007 Canadian Music Awards and with the support of their radio stations, and again in 2008 we are at the forefront of independent Canadian Music Awards. Because of their undying support of Canadian independent artists, we have been able to compete with the major labels. Evanov Radio is an essential part of the Canadian artist development." (As read)
LISTNUM 1 \l 17294 MR. HEKTOEN: As we know, there are a number of applicants for this particular licence. We gladly support Evanov for their YCR format. It's a format that does not exist in Canada, in particular that I know of that we're actively working with but, more importantly, in Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17295 To me youth is the most important fabric to any country and its culture and to have a station speak directly and be a voice for youth, to me, is a critical matter, not only today but for tomorrow and beyond.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17296 With our experience in dealing with this particular company, Evanov, they have demonstrated nothing but commitment.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17297 Even though they're a corporation, they make each of their radio stations an independent incorporation within each city and they generally hire people that are from the city and take a great care in bringing in the right staff with experience and promotion abilities to facilitate emerging artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17298 Without Cancon the Canadian industry would not have any new artists, it's as simple as that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17299 And, in particular, if you think about it, there's really no youth artist that's come about in the last several years in all of Canada.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17300 Right now the youth in particular get force fed the media from U.S. corporations and radio. A good example would be ‑‑ a couple of things would be: One, the Hannah Montana; the High School Musicals; et cetera, which gives a voice to those youth but those are, again, American products and not Canadian products.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17301 Part of RockSTAR's mandate has been very deep artist development. We spend hundreds of thousands of dollars of our own hard money to develop artists and the reason why we continue to get support from radio as a whole and, in particular Evanov, is because we deliver quality music, we have some of the top writers in the world living here in Vancouver, our own facilities and we run it as a business and, unfortunately, it is the music business but it is the business of music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17302 And as a person that's seen operations where funding that goes out to a number of different artists, there are very few companies that really focus in on artists that work with the management and the labels that will actually go in and help reinforce solid marketing plans.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17303 And to me, like any business or any regulation or any body that's funded publicly, I like to see results and results have certainly come from the efforts of Evanov and through the guidance of our programs with RockSTAR we've been able to have success with a number of artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17304 Now, the Summer Rush concerts in Halifax and Toronto. Just imagine, here's an artist, Elise Estrada, last year we discovered her, March the 17th. Within four months she had the No. 1 record in the country and she was playing in front of tens of thousands of people.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17305 What a reinforcement, what an inspiration. She's a Filipino Canadian. We can't walk down the streets of Canada right now without people contacting us or writing to us saying, "How do I get to be like Elise?" And people look up to their own people.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17306 And Canadian youth are going to respond to a format like the YVR (sic) Evanov format that they are proposing here for Vancouver. That's our very strong business opinion.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17307 From a creative standpoint, obviously it's going to give us a radio station to go to that does not have a competing format in town, which is another important factor for our particular company.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17308 The youth market, the 12 to 24 marketplace is a gateway, in my opinion, to Canadian culture. You have the youth that are today bombarded with video games, they're bombarded with television, the Internet, et cetera, but music has always been the constant and it's a universal. It influences culture, fashion, attitudes. And, in my opinion, it gives the youth in Vancouver a specific outlet to go in and be heard.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17309 Our company has taken this, well before we even knew that Evanov was considering to going for a licence and developing a group over the last 18 months. The working title of the group is called The Shorties. It's very hard to envision going after ‑‑ we were originally making the group up for a U.S. presentation, but now we are going to zero in and start to break it here in Canada first.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17310 THE SECRETARY: Please. I'm sorry, please conclude. Your 10 minutes is over.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17311 MR. HEKTOEN: Thank you. In bottom line, I can sum it up very succinctly.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17312 I believe that Evanov has the passion, the commitment, the sustainable financial resource and all the experience to accomplish its stated goals and to help the youth of Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17313 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17314 THE SECRETARY: Thank you. We'll now hear the presentation of Ron Taverner.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 17315 MR. TAVERNER: Madam Chair and Commissioners, thank you for the opportunity to present to you today.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17316 I'm here to support the application by the Evanov Communications for the radio licence in Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17317 Good afternoon. My name is Ron Taverner and I am a Police Superintendent in Toronto Police. My main reason for the support of this application is the support that the Evanov Communications Group has given to a variety of Toronto Police Service initiatives that target the youth.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17318 And over the years the implementation of these programs has been very successful and things I believe that could be implemented here in Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17319 I first became involved with the Evanov Communications Group in Toronto and its radio station CIDC FM in 1996 when a program called Student Crimestoppers was started in Toronto. The program targeted high school aged children, encouraging them to report anonymously crime that had taken place.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17320 CIDC became involved with the implementation of the program by promoting it on air, conducting interviews dealing with specific youth‑based crime issues and through general messaging on social behaviour and youth and young people doing the right thing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17321 We noticed an almost immediate increase in the number of tips we received from youth after the spots had been run on the station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17322 Since the inception of the Student Crimestopper program, the Evanovs have supplied a community vehicle for the Student Crimestopper program for the staff to use on an annual basis, as well as providing other promotional material.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17323 In 2001 I was the commander of a large police division in east downtown Toronto. This division encompassed Regent Park which is a social housing project which has a high youth crime rate. There are a number of murders, shootings, street robberies, drug dealing and other crimes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17324 After a number of the youth murders that year, police, the media and the community met and developed a program called "Toys are for Kids, Not Guns". The program encouraged youth to exchange toy guns and replicas for non‑violent toys. This program proved to be a local success.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17325 The following year the program expanded across the City of Toronto and was called "Gunplay No Way". It provided an opportunity to partner with the corporate sector and the media.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17326 The first organization to support the program was the applicant, who worked together with the community and the police. They provided both on‑air spots and Internet site support to deal with a public awareness of youth gun violence and overall violence in Toronto.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17327 On the day of the event, Evanov Communications provided live‑to‑air broadcasting and arranged other corporate support for the program.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17328 The program has developed now into an annual successful event which encompasses police services for the entire Golden Horseshoe.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17329 The support provided to the program by the Evanov Communication Group has been unwavering since the beginning.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17330 The third initiative the police and the young people are involved with is called "The Pathway to Success". This program targets vulnerable youth who are in high school.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17331 In each session, 300 young people come together to meet with business leaders, lawyers, crown attorneys, judges, police and radio personalities from radio or their favourite No. 1 radio station which is CIDC FM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17332 Having young radio hosts present at the event has had a great impact in targeting youth, because youth can relate to the radio jocks.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17333 Presentations are made to young people about choosing the right path to success and about doing the right thing for the right reasons.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17334 Over the past number of years I can tell you Evanov Communications has been and continues to be an invaluable partner with Police in Toronto. They play a role in maintaining the social fabric by providing positive programs and deal with important youth issues such as impaired driving, youth violence, drug issues and positive lifestyle.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17335 In addition to these anti‑crime initiatives, Evanov Communications has also played a role in making life better for disadvantaged youth and their families.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17336 As an example, this past Christmas a local school called police to report an incident of abuse against a mentally challenged boy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17337 The investigation resulted in the young boy being removed from his home and placed in foster care. We could not bare to see this youth go through Christmas without presents. We called Carmela and Paul Evanov of Evanov Communications and the next morning the radio station put a call out for donation and the reaction was overwhelming. The pile of gifts that came in was unbelievable.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17338 This story goes to show there are a lot of good kids out there, they just need a rallying place to come together to make positive decisions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17339 I believe it's important for all of us to understand how imperative it is for young people in the targeted age group to receive positive information and programming to help them make positive choices.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17340 As parents we try to understand the social pressures that young people face, but the fact is that peer and social pressures are extreme.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17341 I can tell you the impact CDIC has had in getting young people to do the right thing for the right reasons. It's at the very heart of the Evanov Communications corporate philosophy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17342 We all want our young people to grow up and be successful adults. To do that, we need not only parental guidance, but strong role models and the media and community support.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17343 I believe Evanov Communications has demonstrated it's prepared to do that and will support that in a very positive way in whichever community they're in.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17344 I've spoken here a lot about Toronto and I'd like to let you know that I have spoken to my counterparts here in Vancouver about these initiatives and if they can make better community here in Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17345 The officers told me that they certainly would embrace these initiatives along with the support offered by the Evanov Communications in Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17346 There is no doubt in my mind that Evanov would be able to provide the same level of commitment to these programs here as they've done elsewhere.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17347 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17348 THE SECRETARY: Thank you. And now we will hear the presentation of the Cultural Olympiad.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 17349 MR. MOREMAN: Madam Chairman, Mr. Magirescu has a flu of olympic proportions today and he's sent me an e‑mail that he asked to be read into the record, with your permission.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17350 So, the e‑mail is:
"Dear Sean: Please find below my deposition on behalf of VANOC and the Cultural Olympiad in support of ECI's presentation to the CRTC for a licence in Vancouver.
On behalf of the Vancouver Organizing Committee for the 2010 Olympic and Para Olympic Winter Games (VANOC) I wish to formally extend my support to Evanov Communications Inc. (ECI) regarding its licence application for a new radio service in Vancouver.
As manager of the Cultural Olympiad for VANOC, I am pleased that ECI's efforts to establish a radio station here in Vancouver will also directly help to support Canadian musical artists.
Through a recently drafted Memorandum of Understanding between ECI and VANOC, ECI has made a commitment to provide $346,000 to cover the performance fees of 20 Canadian artists who will be selected to perform during the Olympic and Para Olympic Arts Festivals in 2010 as part of the Cultural Olympiad.
Through ECI's financial commitment, these artists will have the opportunity to perform for a world audience both via the media and through live events in Vancouver and Whistler which will be taking place between January 22nd and March 21st, 2010.
In addition to the direct support of artists through fees, ECI has agreed to produce 125,000 compact discs featuring 15 Canadian artists who will perform during the Cultural Olympiad. These CDs will be made available free of charge to athletes, the International Olympic Committee and other members of the National Olympic and Para Olympic Committees from around the world.
The approximate cost of producing these CDs is $760,000.
Through the total contribution of $1.05‑million towards this initiative, ECI has demonstrated its interest in providing direct support to Canadian artists.
This is the mandate of Cultural Olympiad, to provide a platform for Canadian artists of the highest calibre, including new and emerging talent, to be seen by audiences at the local, regional, national and international level.
It is through the partnership between ECI and VANOC's Cultural Olympiad that we can leverage the visibility of our most talented musicians, songwriters and performers.
The Cultural Olympiad is a series of three festivals beginning February 1st to March 21st, 2008, with a second festival from February 1st to March 21st, 2009 and culminating in the Olympic and Para Olympic Arts Festivals from January 22nd to March 21st, 2010.
Through these festivals, over 2,000 performances and exhibits will be featured drawing predominantly from our Canadian talent pool and reaching an expected live audience of 150,000 with a broadcast audience in the millions during the games.
We are grateful to ECI for its commitment to promoting Canadian talent through the Cultural Olympiad. As such, we place our full support behind ECI's application.
Sincerely, Greg Magirescu, Manager, Cultural Olympiad." (As read)
LISTNUM 1 \l 17351 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17352 Commissioner Menzies, please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17353 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you, gentlemen, for that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17354 The gentleman from RockSTAR, I'm sorry, I missed your name.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17355 MR. HEKTOEN: Michael Hektoen.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17356 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Michael Hektoen. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17357 Can you just give me a little bit of background on your relationship with Evanov, how long it goes back and exactly what the nature of it is; how do you interact commercially usually?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17358 MR. HEKTOEN: We met Evanov approximately 18 months or so, maybe even more recent than that. The relationship is one of, we go to them like any other record company, independent and try to get our artists played.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17359 We were successful in interesting them based on what we were able to create in the way of awareness of our artists. So, they gave us a chance on the air and that chance resulted in our starting to build artists of national significance.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17360 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: And I take it that you find them ‑‑ that is a very positive relationship and what you are saying is that they, perhaps more than any of the other applicants here, are open to this promotion of Canadian artists?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17361 MR. HEKTOEN: Without question, sir.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17362 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay, thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17363 You talked about how this application would provide a voice for youth. What would that voice say?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17364 MR. HEKTOEN: That anything is possible, that if I'm a Canadian and I'm young, I have an organization that can take my music and maybe put it on the air or take my songs and get them to other artists in a collective matter to get my voice heard.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17365 I see that culturally. I see this running through high schools.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17366 I just ‑‑ in working with this organization in the past, I just know how they inter work with different associations and schools to always think ahead, the kind of out of the box thinking that always seems to end up in a result.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17367 You have to have the music that's going to deliver the result, you can't sell something that's not sellable, but if you have sellable music and you can put it into a market and have it judged on its own merits, then they are certainly a company that knows how to go about helping an independent company like RockSTAR achieve its goals.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17368 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: You mentioned in your presentation here that ‑‑ you made a point of mentioning that Evanov is a decentralized company, that it allows local decision‑making.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17369 Why did you point that out and how does that compare?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17370 MR. HEKTOEN: What I have found at times is if you're dealing with major companies influence comes from one central location; whereas in dealing with Evanov in Toronto separate than Halifax, there's a common denominator of course because they're part of the aggregate, however, each community had specific ideas and suggestions on how to best work our artists within their community to maximize the results.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17371 And they came up with some really great ideas and which we appreciated and it really has resulted in helping to launch really, what I feel it to be, is the next international star out of Canada in Elise Estrada in particular.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17372 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17373 MR. HEKTOEN: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17374 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Mr. Taverner, I'm not sure if you heard the interventions or applications of a couple other applications, Touch and In‑House, both of whom talked quite a bit about having positive influences on youth.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17375 Could you care to comment on how Evanov's work in that area differs from theirs?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17376 MR. TAVERNER: I'm not sure that I heard all of the other depositions presented, but I can tell you from the experiences I've had with the Evanov Group, they are ‑‑ they think out of the box and they're willing to take some chances on doing some things that other media are not prepared to do, which results in some very positive things for the community and young people.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17377 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay, thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17378 And the gentleman from Cultural Olympiad, I don't know your name either. Sean something.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17379 MR. MOREMAN: To be fair, Commissioner Menzies, I am ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 17380 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: I can't know your name.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17381 MR. MOREMAN: ‑‑ in‑house counsel with ECI, I'm not prepared to talk to anything beyond what Mr. Magirescu wrote.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17382 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay. That's too bad, I had a good question.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 17383 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: It would have been helpful.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17384 I'm done.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17385 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, thank you very much for taking the time to come to participate.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17386 And we will take a 15‑minute break right now, please.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1640 / Suspension à 1640
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1700 / Reprise à 1700
LISTNUM 1 \l 17387 THE SECRETARY: We will now hear the presentation of Elka Yarlowe. You have 10 minutes for your presentation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17388 Thank you.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 17389 MS YARLOWE: Good afternoon, CRTC Panel and thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak on behalf of the applicant SKY 104 FM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17390 I'm Elka Yarlowe. I've been in the music industry for over 35 years as a musician first, concert promoter, producer and artist manager. I have academic and practical industry expertise in world music, roots, jazz and classical genres. I currently serve as a Board member of MusicBC, the International Association for Roma Culture and Opera Canada.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17391 I have programmed content music for Vision Television, Rogers Cable, CKLN, CIUT, CBC‑Radio 2, CHIN 100.7 in Toronto, and Bravo Television.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17392 I now live in Vancouver, where I am the Director of The Yarlowe Group Artist Management.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17393 My comments are my own, and in no way are they to be construed as support from the artists that I have cited in my intervention, nor the organizations with which I am affiliated.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17394 I speak from the perspective of one of the few established artist managers in Canada who specializes in world music ‑‑ world music performed at its highest levels ‑‑ and I also speak as a person who has had a long passion for many kinds of music and is an avid radio listener.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17395 I grew up with radio in a generation when radio mattered, when radio engaged and excited audiences, when radio broke new ground, new artists, brought diverse ideas and people together, engendered groundswell support, and transcended political and racial boundaries.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17396 My radio included, yes, Motown and the Beatles and The Stones, but it also introduced me, and millions more, to Ravi Shankar, Leadbelly, Maryann McCabe, Buffy Sainte‑Marie, Bob Marley and Ali Akbar Khan.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17397 Had those voices been stilled, today we would not be listening to Alpha YaYa Dialo, Mariem Hassan, Alex Cuba, Swollen Members, DJ Khaled, Autorickshaw, k‑os, and So‑Called.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17398 And if you don't know who any of those are, or recognize any of those names, they are all Canadian, and all but two of them live right here in Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17399 I feel that SKY 104 FM is one station that can grow and engage an audience, stretch musical and community boundaries, and bring back some excitement to radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17400 I have been listening online all week to this week's hearings, and there were many commonalities in all of the presentations. Each one promised support for emerging and new artists. Each one promised to reach out to diverse communities. Some promised to build relationships with other performing arts disciplines, although how you get ballet on the radio, I don't know.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17401 What I found extremely interesting was that many of the applicants proposed to offer segments in world music and world beat.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17402 So you can appreciate that it raised my concern and why I thought world music must be the cash cow buzzword for the year.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17403 More importantly, I felt that some of the comments did not give an accurate or truthful picture, and, in fact, I thought that some of them were disingenuous, that would be tantamount to acknowledging that there is help in the kitchen.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17404 Essentially, world music is indigenous music of all peoples whose roots are entrenched in a particular cultural and music tradition. With the expansion of global communication and cultural exchange, world music has transformed into sub‑genres of global roots, world beat, electronica, Afro‑Cuban, Latino, and world fusion, and there are many sub‑genres of the sub‑genres.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17405 World music also has a tradition of diasporic classical music, and that format is represented very successfully by CBC.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17406 What is important, and what is missing in those applications, except for SKY FM's, is that music fans are not limited to ethnically diverse audiences, nor does it mean that a musician from a particular country, where there is a plethora of world music, is necessarily a world artist.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17407 For example, in Jordan, Palestine and Israel, where I travel frequently ‑‑ and I speak the languages ‑‑ the predominant music there is Top 40, pre‑teen and rap.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17408 The top‑selling album in the Ukraine is Hannah Montana, and Japan has a new genre called "Janame", which is the Japanese music equivalent to Anime.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17409 These are now considered world music artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17410 World music and world beat has a discerning audience demographic. The average listener, the average concert‑goer and record‑buyer may be of various ethnic backgrounds, but the typical world music consumer is ‑‑ Are you ready? ‑‑ male, White, Asian or Latino, and usually has a college degree. That same consumer is typically a fan of blues, jazz, and alternate rock like The Band and Frank Zappa.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17411 The one defining quality about all world music artists is their musical proficiency, or what in jazz and blues we call "chops".
LISTNUM 1 \l 17412 The entire industry, the entire world music industry and what its essential and fundamental roots are, is on artistic merit and artistic proficiency, unlike artists in Top 40 or "Triple A", who are driven on corporate money.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17413 Canada is the fourth largest market in the world for world beat, world music, and urban music, followed by the United States, Western Europe and Australia. All of the markets are quickly being surpassed by China and India.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17414 In North America, live world beat ‑‑ and I am including this, as sort of the big umbrella, as world music ‑‑ concerts generate $15 million a year. Record sales, including pay digital downloads, generate another $5 million.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17415 This may seem like a paltry number compared to the rest of the music industry, but understand that these genres are part of the invisible music market ‑‑ and world music is an invisible music market. They have no mainstream investment and no significant contributions from major labels. They have virtually no marketing vehicles on any platform. Even Bravo, MuchMusic, MTV and the like are closed to world music, world beat, and urban.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17416 The commercial airwaves are virtually closed to these artists, not only in Canada, but in North America.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17417 When you understand this, you will understand that generating something small, like $15 million in gross sales, is really a Herculean feat.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17418 I am excited by SKY 104 FM's CCD plans. They seem to understand that what starts in Vancouver affects global music, and what is out there globally affects what is going on in Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17419 As a matter of fact, I authored their tag line for their World Music Division ‑‑ "World Music from Around the Globe and Around the Corner."
LISTNUM 1 \l 17420 I do believe, in some way, that their proposed format will make radio a lot better. Commercial music radio, by and large, has lost sight of two integral elements that brought it into its very existence ‑‑ audiences and artists ‑‑ giving audiences what they want to hear in markets where they live.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17421 Essentially, everyone has said the same thing. Again, I have heard all of the applicants, and most of the interventions, and they all say the same thing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17422 But for the world music artist living locally in Vancouver, locally in Canada, virtually every door is shut.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17423 There are over a thousand full‑time, professional, world music artists living in Canada. Three hundred of them live in Vancouver. Together, they represent 60 cultures, and speak more than 27 languages.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17424 And I am just going to talk about the Vancouver market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17425 Radio play still has the ability to drive live concert performances, which drives digital and physical sales, which drives touring, which promotes airplay, and on and on and on.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17426 But, again, commercial radio is closed to our artists. It is also closed, I might add, to the people who really want this music. People hear it. It gets around.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17427 For example ‑‑ I am going to digress for a moment ‑‑ some people were talking about youth intervention, and I think that is part of SKY 104's demographic. They are going to be targeting, in part, the youth demographic, and they want to reach out into the community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17428 There is a mixed martial art form called "Capawara". Capawara is the grandfather of brake dancing. It started in Puerto Rico, at a very violent time, and it actually instills ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 17429 Yes, it is a physical, mixed‑martial art, but it instills control and mental prowess over fighting.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17430 Capawara uses exclusively world music instrumentation as its accompaniment. One of the leading proponents of Capawara and one of the leading proponents in the world music genre lives right here in Vancouver. His name is Joseph Pepidonza(ph). He has 13 records. He is known all over the world, and he has never had one song played on commercial radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17431 THE SECRETARY: I am sorry, please conclude, your 10 minutes is up.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17432 MS YARLOWE: Okay. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17433 As for making substantial and discernible differences, I submit that Canadian world music and world beat artists have proven their ability to do so in a manner far more tangible and far more lasting than any Billboard or SoundScan results.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17434 When the United Nations searched worldwide for someone to represent their "Stand Up Africa" campaign, they chose Vancouver‑based Alpha YaYa Dialo, who will be played on SKY 104 FM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17435 When internationally acclaimed documentary filmmakers searched for the very best studio musicians to compose the score for the award‑winning film called "A Place Called Chiapas", they chose Vancouver's eminent Latin musicians Sal Ferreras, Kelso Marcshadow and Joseph Pepidonza. SKY 104 will play their tunes, as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17436 I am supporting SKY 104 above any of the other applicants because I believe they understand that there is a fine balance between multiculturalism, diversity and inclusivity, and they will choose artists that are playing at the highest level possible.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17437 I am confident that their CCD plan will grow, and that they will keep their CCD money here in Vancouver, here in British Columbia, rather than sending it to FACTOR, who just doesn't give world beat artists any money.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17438 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17439 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17440 Commissioner Cugini, please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17441 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank you, Ms Yarlowe. You bring a unique perspective to these proceedings, because you work on the ground with these artists, and that is going to be the focus of my questions, what you do every day with these artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17442 Consistently throughout your presentation this afternoon you said "world music/world beat". Is there a distinction between world music and world beat?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17443 Do you consider certain artists to be world music, while others are world beat?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17444 MS YARLOWE: Yes, there is a distinction. I would like to submit that world music is sort of the catch‑all ‑‑ it is the umbrella term.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17445 Clearly, a classical diasporic world music artist like Don Xin Ming or Cassius Khan wouldn't have airplay on SKY 104. They are played more ‑‑ it is more of a CBC format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17446 But someone like Tanya Takak(ph), who is a brilliant Inuit and who has sort of a backbeat with her, she will be played there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17447 The world beat sort of has a groove. Alpha YaYa Dialo and Ruma(ph) Culldaza(ph) are really excellent examples of that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17448 World beat can have, and usually does have, some kind of sampling going on, some form of guitar/drums thing going on.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17449 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: You also talked about world music instrumentation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17450 MS YARLOWE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17451 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: That immediately called to mind bands like The Tea Party.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17452 Would you consider them to be world music instrumentation ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 17453 MS YARLOWE: The Tea Party is an excellent example, yes. The Tea Party, Autorickshaw ‑‑ these are excellent, excellent examples, yes, because they are playing ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 17454 The Toronto Tabla Ensemble ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 17455 The Toronto Tabla Ensemble might be a little bit more for the corp, but, yes, The Tea Party is an excellent example.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17456 As a matter of fact, to give you an example, some of the artists on my own roster have played with The Tea Party. They have played with Red Hot Chili Peppers, Eric Clapton, Buddy Guy ‑‑ because there is a blend.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17457 There is also a commonality ‑‑ the same challenges and commonality and musical approach to world music as there is in blues. There is a natural fit there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17458 Yes, Sarrowed(ph), Tabla, Tar, Rick, Shakohatchi(ph) ‑‑ yes, these are all common elements.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17459 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Maybe Jeff Martin is listening, and he will put The Tea Party back together again.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17460 MS YARLOWE: Wouldn't that be great?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17461 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Yes, it would be.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17462 MS YARLOWE: I would book them myself.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 17463 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: You also said that the doors are shut for world music artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17464 MS YARLOWE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17465 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: What do you mean by that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17466 Do you mean in terms of radio airplay?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17467 I think that is obvious, from what you have said.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17468 MS YARLOWE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17469 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: But what are the challenges that you face in booking the artists you manage?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17470 MS YARLOWE: I will give you an example.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17471 Because of the nature of a lot of world music ‑‑ and sometimes it crosses over into jazz or blues ‑‑ we tend to survive on FACTOR grants ‑‑ just as an example.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17472 A FACTOR grant stipulates that, first of all, it's a loan. I don't know if a lot of artists understand that it is a loan. If you default on it, just like the banks, you don't get another one.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17473 Typical sales in order to get a FACTOR grant are 2,000 units for any one CD.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17474 For TAB, for the Radio Starmaker Fund, for world music, the stipulation is 2,500 units.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17475 Touring, radio, and live gigs all work together.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17476 If I call someone and say, "I have an artist coming to Quebec and Ontario," the first thing they will ask me is: Is there anything they are playing on the air now? Can I get a buzz? What is their radio play?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17477 Well, there is no format. There really is ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 17478 Up until eight months ago there was no other format but the CBC.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17479 And those two brilliant shows, "Global Village" and "Roots and Wings", which were broadcast nationally, have both been cut. They are gone.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17480 So, no, I have no airplay. I can't even get on airplay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17481 So I say, "Okay, fine, I don't have airplay. Let's see if I can get a video."
LISTNUM 1 \l 17482 MuchMusic, MuchMoreMusic, even Bravo to some extent ‑‑ less than 1 percent is world music or world beat.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17483 I want to be clear that even though Latino is a sub‑genre of world music, the Latino industry has sort of its own thing going on. There is a little bit of coming to visit each other, but not extensively. So there is some play.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17484 But there is no radio play for us. There is no television play for us. So we are marginalized ‑‑ I know that is a word that has been going around today ‑‑ we are limited, then, to community ethnic radio stations, and that is not who these people are.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17485 It would be the equivalent of asking Rusker(ph) Povich(ph) to only play on the Ukrainian 500‑watt radio station when he got to Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17486 It's just not done. So it's a challenge.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17487 In other genres ‑‑ and I don't disparage any other genre. I also represent singer/songwriters in rock bands and all that stuff, but there are other platforms available.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17488 I heard somebody say yesterday, "Poor Feist, she couldn't get any airplay in Vancouver." Come on. Really. She has a commercial.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17489 Film and television placement is difficult for world music artists and world beat artists. The current trend is to do the singer/songwriter ‑‑ no thanks to "Grey's Anatomy". They are not going to ‑‑ so we are left with that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17490 The truth of the matter is, most of the artists on my own roster have careers in Europe, and they are all Canadian.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17491 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Do you face these same obstacles in booking live gigs for those artists?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17492 MS YARLOWE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17493 Vancouver is challenged with booking live gigs across all genres. There are virtually no venues here.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17494 This is, again, my own opinion. There is a prevailing attitude in some areas in this part of Canada ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 17495 I just moved here three years ago from Toronto, so now I get it. If you are from ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 17496 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: You get it why everybody hates Toronto?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17497 MS YARLOWE: Yeah, I get it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17498 What can I say? The weather is nice here.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17499 If you are from here, you can't be any good, so you can't get ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 17500 For example ‑‑ again, not to disparage anybody. I wish everybody had great careers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17501 Balkan Beat Box is playing at the Cultural Olympiad. Okay, Balkan Beat Box ‑‑ and that is another example of world music, but, you know, I'm sorry, I'm from Manhattan ‑‑ they are just a club band.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17502 I have two artists ‑‑ two ensembles ‑‑ that have played successfully ‑‑ just came back from a successful tour in China, where they love ‑‑ by the way, they love world music and jazz ‑‑ and India and Romania. These are the mentors of Balkan Beat Box.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17503 Right now everybody is on ‑‑ you know, music goes through trends.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17504 So there are a lot of challenges.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17505 And I really want to underscore, too, that there are other genres, especially blues, that have similar challenges to world beat and world music artists. It's difficult.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17506 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Like I said at the very beginning, you certainly do bring a unique and interesting and valuable perspective to these proceedings.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17507 MS YARLOWE: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17508 COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17509 Thank you, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17510 THE CHAIRPERSON: I thank you for your time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17511 THE SECRETARY: I will now call MusicBC, Aboriginal Voices Radio, the Greater Vancouver Food Bank Society, I.T. Productions, Cordova Bay Entertainment Group, and Theresa Point to appear as a panel.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17512 We will start with the presentation of MusicBC.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17513 Please introduce yourself. You will have ten minutes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17514 Thank you.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 17515 MR. D'EITH: Thank you very much. My name is Bob D'Eith, and I am the Executive Director of MusicBC, the Music BC Industry Association.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17516 We are actually scheduled to appear twice, so I am going to be isolating my comments to the Jim Pattison Broadcast application. I will have more time tomorrow to talk about ‑‑ we are involved with four other applications.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17517 Just so the Panel knows, we are not promoting one applicant over another, but will be speaking to the Canadian content development programs that we are involved with.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17518 Particularly I am appearing in terms of the Jim Pattison Broadcast Group, because it is the most involved, and I think it is worth taking some time to flesh out.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17519 MusicBC has over 600 members. We are the provincial music industry association. We have over 3,000 subscribers. We are a non‑profit that was set up in 1990, so we have been around for 18 years, and we are dedicated solely to the development of B.C. artists and the industry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17520 Our mandate as a non‑profit is to support and promote the spirit, development and growth of the B.C. music community, provincially, nationally and internationally.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17521 We provide education, resources, opportunities for funding, networking, and a forum for communication for our members.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17522 Some of our programs include ‑‑ we have a career development series. We have manufacturing and marketing programs for artists, demo programs. We administer the MITAP, the travel assistant program, for the Province of British Columbia.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17523 We are going to be the host association for the Junos for Vancouver in `09.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17524 We put out a directory, with the help of Canadian content development money.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17525 We put out a series of compilation CDs of B.C. artists, which we recently took to MIDEM and to the Grammy Awards, to the Canadian consulate.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17526 Amongst other things, we have a resource library, and we do our best to educate and promote B.C. artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17527 I would like to make a couple of opening statements.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17528 First, we really appreciate the CRTC setting aside 60 percent for FACTOR on these CCD applications for FM licences. For the balance, though, we would really like to see more money stay locally.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17529 And I think the music industry associations across Canada would echo that sentiment. If there is a licence in Vancouver, the money should stay in British Columbia, and we would like to see that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17530 There is enough money going to the national programs, and we think that is wonderful, but we would like to make the statement that we really applaud the applicants who are keeping the money at home.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17531 I would also like to thank the CRTC, in the radio review, for isolating provincial music industry associations as recipients of CCD funds. We really appreciate that. I am sure, again, that would be echoed by all of my sister organizations right across the country. We appreciate that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17532 I would like to focus now on the Jim Pattison Broadcast CCD application and, in particular, The Peak Performance Project.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17533 We developed last year a position paper on the music industry in British Columbia, and excerpts from this are included in the intervention letter that we sent to the CRTC. In that paper we isolated a number of trends in the music industry, and what the needs of the music industry are.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17534 One of the things we all know is that retail is going down, and that it is a really "Do it Yourself" world out there for artists. Artists are not getting signed as much. There is not as much development money. And we are finding that there is a big paradigm shift in the music industry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17535 We isolated a number of needs in the music community, and we put that out to the provincial government, and to radio broadcasters, and a few of the broadcasters answered that call. The one that went the furthest was the Jim Pattison Broadcast Group. They actually came to us and said, "What does the industry need," and they designed the program with us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17536 That was the first time that has happened to us. It wasn't just, "Here is some money. We will give you some money"; it was, "What does the industry need, and how can we help you? And we will let you run it, because you know how to do it."
LISTNUM 1 \l 17537 I think that is a really important point. With a lot of the CCD programs, radio stations aren't necessarily in the best position to be running those programs. I think the music industry associations are, and I think the Jim Pattison Broadcast Group recognized that, and they responded to the issues that were brought forward in that position paper.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17538 What we found out was that artists need to focus on their live performances. They need to focus on touring. They need to focus on internet marketing. They need to focus on many things that they didn't have to do as much of before.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17539 They have to take control over their own destiny. They have to be educated. They can't rely on people and companies to take them to the next level, they have to do it themselves.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17540 That is what this program is all about. It is giving the opportunity to as many B.C. artists as it can, right across the board, to participate in this program. Of those, 20 per year will be put through a rigorous education boot camp‑type atmosphere, where they are not only learning the skills of musicianship, but also the business of music, which amounts to a big gap in our industry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17541 Then it will go forward. From there the artists will be in a battle‑of‑the‑bands situation, but with a catch. They not only have to be adjudicated on their music, but on how they put that knowledge into practice.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17542 From those, the cream will rise, and we will have three artists per year who will have significant funding to promote, to record, and to tour.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17543 This will be, ultimately, of maximum benefit to as many artists as we can possibly do, and it will hit all of the various elements that we isolated that the industry needs.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17544 Over seven years, we are looking at helping over 140 artists in British Columbia.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17545 In addition to that, there is a back‑up, another $50,000 a year that Jim Pattison has put into our MITAP travel assistance program, which will help another 50 artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17546 So we are looking at, over a seven‑year period, with nearly $800,000 a year, helping nearly 500 artists in British Columbia.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17547 It is probably the most significant program that I have ever seen put into place. It is what I would have liked to have seen from my provincial government, but I didn't get. But I am getting it with the Jim Pattison Broadcast Group.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17548 I can't emphasize more how the consultation with us made such a big impact. This is not being forced on us, this is coming from the ground up.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17549 Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17550 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17551 Now we will hear the presentation of Aboriginal Voices Radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17552 Please introduce yourselves. You will have ten minutes.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 17553 MR. HILL: Good afternoon, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, Commission Staff, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Jamie Hill, and I am the Chief Executive Officer of Aboriginal Voices Radio Inc., or AVR.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17554 Before we get underway with our presentation, I would like to introduce my colleagues.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17555 With me today are, to my left, J. Robert Wood, AVR's management consultant.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17556 To my right is Jason Ryall, AVR's General Manager.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17557 I would also like to express thanks for the letters of intervention filed in support of the Pattison application on behalf of AVR by Phil Fontaine, the National Chief of the Assembly of First Nations, Georges Erasmus, Co‑chair of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples, Vera Pawis‑Tabobondung, President of the National Association of Friendship Centres, and Susan Tatoosh, Executive Director of the Vancouver Aboriginal Friendship Centres Society.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17558 I am now ready to begin our presentation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17559 AVR appreciates the opportunity to appear before you today in support of the application by Pattison for a licence to establish a new station and/or transfer its existing AM station to the FM Band.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17560 Our presentation today will provide background about our financial situation, why the funding from Pattison is so important to us, and how we will use the money if Pattison's application is approved.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17561 We believe that there is a significant need for a national, urban, Aboriginal radio service. We believe that you share this view. Indeed, your policies, decisions, and the funding support you have provided us since AVR was founded speak volumes about your commitment to fill the need for a national Aboriginal radio network.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17562 We are most grateful for your support.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17563 Regarding AVR's financial situation, we would like to review with you a few important points.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17564 AVR is a non‑profit organization, and has managed to get seven licences on the air in large urban markets, without the benefit of the kind of large investment that would be typical in the radio industry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17565 Between 2000 and 2007, AVR received less than $625,000 per annum from broadcaster benefits packages. Considering that it costs the average commercial broadcaster up to $4 million to $7 million just to operate a single commercial station in Toronto, the average annual revenue of $625,000 that AVR has received to date has been enough to get us on the air, but has not been enough to build and maintain a national radio service with robust, high‑quality programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17566 In addition, looking ahead at the money to be paid between 2008 and 2014, AVR's average annual revenue will be $957,722.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17567 Going forward, this means that AVR will have revenues of under $1 million per year to operate an entire network. When all nine of its stations are on the air, it will cost AVR an average of $75,000 per market to cover the rent and utilities to operate its transmitter sites.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17568 In other words, of the $957,000 per annum that AVR will receive between now and 2014, $675,000, or 70 percent of the money, will be needed just to keep the stations on the air.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17569 This is before we hire a single person or produce so much as a single hour of programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17570 As noted, these dollars are unadjusted for inflation, unlike AVR's expenses.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17571 In short, lack of adequate funding has been the story of AVR's history, and continues to be AVR's main challenge. That, Madam Chair and Members of the Commission, is the reason why AVR has taken longer than normal to launch its stations, why it has not been able to launch adequate local programming in each of its markets, and why we stand before you today to endorse the Pattison application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17572 The need for a national, urban, Aboriginal radio network, and, by extension, the need for CCD funding to sustain the network, has never been greater.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17573 According to the Aboriginal Peoples Survey II, there are nearly 1.5 million people with Aboriginal origins in Canada. Well over half live in urban centres. For the past 25 years, Aboriginal people have been migrating to the cities at rates that far exceed the population at large.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17574 Coupled with soaring birthrates, the number of Aboriginal people living in major cities is exploding.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17575 In Broadcasting Public Notice CRTC 2005‑24, dated March 21, 2005, the Commission offered its response to the report of the Task Force for Cultural Diversity on Television.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17576 In its response the Commission noted a number of findings of the task force. For example, the study revealed that: "Negative stereotypes of Aboriginal peoples as a problem people are continually being reinforced."
LISTNUM 1 \l 17577 The study also found that: "Aboriginal peoples are virtually absent from the Canadian television programming aired by private broadcasters, in both English and French‑language markets, in any type of role or program."
LISTNUM 1 \l 17578 According to the research, Aboriginal peoples are persistently invisibilized by the media and continue to be one of the most misrepresented and stereotyped groups in Canada.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17579 The task force also noted that: "Without APTN, Aboriginal peoples would be excluded from TV screens."
LISTNUM 1 \l 17580 From our perspective, Aboriginal people are just as conspicuous by their absence from radio as television, if not more so. There are no Aboriginal programs on the CBC's main network in the south, virtually no programs on private sector commercial stations, and only a limited, patchwork of programs, usually in non‑prime time, on campus and community stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17581 The absence of Aboriginal people from the programming offered by public and private broadcasters in Canada certainly has had a negative impact on Aboriginal self‑esteem, self‑image, and sense of self‑worth, especially amongst young people.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17582 A large proportion of Aboriginal people do not have a sense of inclusion in Canadian society. On the contrary, their sense is one of exclusion, marginalization and, at times, humiliation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17583 In order to overcome the system‑wide gap in service for the burgeoning Aboriginal population in major urban centres in Canada and to ensure that the Canadian broadcasting system reflects the special place of Aboriginal people within Canadian society, the development of AVR is, we believe, the most expedient, efficient and economical way to go.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17584 Certainly, the reflection of Aboriginal people on radio in Canada's major urban centres will be achieved much more quickly through AVR than through the programming offered by commercial broadcasters.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17585 However, we will continue to require CCD funding until we find a way to establish adequate, stable, long‑term funding. We are currently pursuing an initiative that we believe could provide the solution, but, in the interim, we very much need the CCD funding proposed by Pattison.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17586 There is also some urgency attached to the need for such funding. This urgency is precipitated by two factors.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17587 First, beginning on the 25th of February 2009, AVR must devote a minimum of 25 percent of its weekly broadcast schedule to local programming and commence regular, daily, local newscasts in each of its markets, according to Broadcasting Decision CRTC 2008‑45.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17588 Second, because of the overlapping CCD payments, AVR's revenues will average $1.4 million this year and next. After next year, however, funding will decrease from $1,348,937 to $928,937. This represents a reduction of $420,000 per year.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17589 The approval of the Pattison application will provide AVR with funding of $3 million over seven years, or $428,571. The proposed funding from Pattison represents slightly more than the entire shortfall in CCD benefits that we will begin to experience starting at the end of next year.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17590 Broadly speaking, AVR needs funding to sustain operations, complete the installation of its transmitter facilities in Montreal and Kitchener, launch its new stations in Regina and Saskatoon, hire staff to start building capacity in sales, programming and fundraising, and start improving its news and spoken word programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17591 If the Pattison application is approved, we will especially utilize the funds to start improving our news and spoken word programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17592 In conclusion, Madam Chair and Commissioners, AVR can continue on life‑support for many years, offering mediocre programming, repeated ad nauseam, but that does not enable it to reach the potential that it is capable of and which we are confident the Commission would like to see.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17593 To meet this objective, AVR clearly requires additional funding.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17594 In its Native Broadcast Policy, released nearly 18 years ago, Public Notice CRTC 1990‑89, the Commission said:
"In the Commission's view, it is essential that Aboriginal broadcasters receive sufficient funds to enable them to fulfil their responsibilities."
LISTNUM 1 \l 17595 The Aboriginal community is Canada's poorest and most vulnerable community, with challenges like no other. If any community needs access to free over‑the‑air radio to aid in its development, it is the Aboriginal community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17596 At the same time, taking into account revenues versus number of people that reside within the footprint of its stations, AVR is arguably Canada's poorest and most vulnerable broadcaster.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17597 These factors underline why the funding proposed by Pattison is so important to us, and why we hope you will approve the Pattison application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17598 In closing, I wish to thank you again for your unwavering support. We are moving ahead. We have made unbelievable progress, despite severe financial limitations, and we are in full compliance with our Conditions of Licence.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17599 Madam Chair and Members of the Commission, AVR has a mission to help improve the lives of Aboriginal people, and with your help we intend to fulfil it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17600 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17601 We will now hear the presentation of the Greater Vancouver Food Bank Society.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17602 Please introduce yourself. You will have ten minutes.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 17603 MS KRAVITZ: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17604 My name is Arlene Kravitz. I am the Director of Communications for the Greater Vancouver Food Bank Society.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17605 We are the largest food bank in B.C., and we are the third largest in Canada. We help feed up to 25,000 people every week. Of those 25,000 people, 41 percent, or 10,000, are children.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17606 We don't get any government support. We rely solely on the public and the corporate sector.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17607 Because we don't have a huge advertising budget, we do rely on radio stations and TV stations and the print media to give us a lot of our advertising for our campaigns, et cetera.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17608 I am here to support this because they are a huge support to us. JR FM and 600 AM, about 15 years ago, started a program called "Basics for Babies". It is geared to feed all of the hungry babies in the Lower Mainland, and we feed about 2,000 of those a week, just from our food bank, in four municipalities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17609 In the first year they raised about $3,000, and just about 1,000 pounds of food. Now, every year, they raise over $200,000 in funds. It is very difficult to accurately measure the amount of food, but it is to the point where we never have to buy baby food any more to feed the babies that are in our lineups or go to the agencies to get food from us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17610 They support us, and they have their listeners supporting us. The exposure we get from them is phenomenal.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17611 I work a lot with the employees and the radio announcers at the station during their big campaign in November, and they are so into it that it's really easy to work with them. I never have to say "Can you?" or "Will you?"
LISTNUM 1 \l 17612 We call them in the summer, which is our slowest period of donations, and say, "Can you support our summer campaign?" They say, "Sure."
LISTNUM 1 \l 17613 They have concerts that benefit the food bank, as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17614 This is what corporate social responsibility is all about, and we appreciate everything they do for us, so it is my pleasure to be able to support them a little bit.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17615 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17616 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17617 We will now hear the presentation of I.T. Productions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17618 Please introduce yourself. You will have ten minutes.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 17619 MS DATT: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17620 Good morning, Madam Chair and Members of the Commission. My name is Sushma Datt, and I am the owner of I.T. Productions Limited.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17621 I am here to speak in support of the approval of the Jim Pattison Broadcast Group receiving approval for a licence to operate 104.1 FM, or, alternatively, to support them receiving authority to convert their AM 600 service to FM on 100.5 FM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17622 A little bit about my company. I.T. Productions is a Vancouver‑based media company which I established in the Lower Mainland in 1984. I.T. Productions owns and operates Canada's first successful SCMO radio station, Rhim Jim, a South Asian‑language service established in 1987.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17623 With thanks to the Commission, I.T. Productions Limited also owns British Columbia's newest AM radio station, CJRJ 1200 AM. CJRJ started broadcasting in November 2006.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17624 I.T. Productions also owns three Category 3 digital TV licences. We are hoping to launch one of them by the fall of this year.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17625 I am a local, Vancouver‑based radio broadcaster. I believe that strong local and regional owners, such as the Jim Pattison Group, serve an important role in being closely in touch with the specific needs of the local communities they serve, and I hope that my comments today will reinforce why the Pattison Group should receive a new FM licence in Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17626 Although ethnic broadcasting has seen great strides in Vancouver in recent years, it has not always been so successful.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17627 When I came to Vancouver from England in 1971, there were no programs available for the South Asian community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17628 In 1972, the first multilingual radio station in Vancouver was licensed to Mr. Jean van Brookham(ph), which had three hours a week of South Asian programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17629 In 1978, that station converted its service and gave the majority of its airtime to Chinese‑language programming, thereby significantly reducing access for South Asian and other minority language services.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17630 We spent a few years trying to broker time and develop our television service to keep our business alive, until we realized that we needed to find a way to create access for our radio service.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17631 In 1986‑87, I approached a number of Vancouver FM stations to propose a unique way of providing radio service to the ever‑growing South Asian community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17632 Our proposal to rent an FM sub‑carrier and broadcast for the South Asian community was rejected by many stations. It was the Pattison Group which allowed us access to their Vancouver JRFM SCMO to launch our service, helping us get access to the airwaves.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17633 Although it was an uphill struggle for our SCMO service to get people to buy special radios and listen to us, the Pattison Group has always stood by us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17634 As a small independent business, our company has relied very heavily on support from the Jim Pattison Broadcast Group to get and keep our SCMO service on the air in Vancouver for the last 20 years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17635 While the face of the city has changed significantly, and the South Asian community is now a market that people are paying attention to, in the beginning it took a supportive, local‑based broadcast company, the Pattison Broadcast Group, to see that this was a service that the market needed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17636 They recognized the importance of access to the radio broadcast market for our culturally diverse station, and stood by us, with little upside to them, but for the fact that it was good for the local community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17637 While programming on SCMO, we gained expertise. We ran the station like a full‑fledged commercial venture. The staff and personnel of the Pattison Group were always there for us, assisting us in any way we needed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17638 In 2004, when we made an application to the Commission, we triggered a call for a brand new licence for Vancouver. In 2005, we were successful in getting AM 1200. The Pattison Group supported us and guided us in that process.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17639 Why is this relevant today in my support of the Pattison Group?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17640 Number one: I believe that long‑standing commitments to a market and to the needs of the market should play a role in deciding who gets rewarded with a licence. My experience with the Pattison Group shows it to be committed for the long‑term to the radio industry and to Vancouver. That should be seen in a positive light.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17641 Number two: They are aware and supportive of social and cultural needs in their city. Offering support to a small ethnic radio operation such as mine for 20 years, without any material commercial benefit or regulatory requirement, should show you that not only does this company meet its commitments to the broadcasting system, it exceeds them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17642 Number three: They, like me, are local. As a local business needing support, they were responsive and helpful. Local ownership is very important and valuable in any community. It provides leadership. It provides guidance, local knowledge, distinct entrepreneurial flair, and an example for others to emulate.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17643 The understanding of local issues and the treatment of local concerns is unique to every community. A local owner will closely be related to the social, cultural and business reality in their community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17644 Lack of local ownership will result in more and more consolidation in the hands of fewer individuals, with the loss of diversity in programming, and certainly an editorial viewpoint.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17645 In the recent past, we have seen a trend of local businesses, including the last mainstream FM licence issued by the Commission, being taken over by companies from eastern Canada. The local voice has been lost, and the entire business is at risk of being controlled from Toronto.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17646 Once local ownership is lost, local control is also lost.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17647 The Pattison Broadcast Group has shown its commitment for the long haul. The presence of a strong regional company in Vancouver, with the resources to compete with national companies, is very important.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17648 Number four: Pattison supports under‑developed services in the market. When I look at the amount they are committing as a benefits package, and especially their commitment to AVR, to ensure that service has access to the market, and based on my experience, I think the Commission should be confident that they are committed to the success of their less‑mainstream radio partners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17649 Clearly, that is something the Commission should look upon favourably as it supports diversity. Sometimes it takes a strong partner to ensure that new voices are heard.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17650 Number five: The significant commitment to emerging artists through The Peak Performance Project is also something beyond anything that has been offered in the Vancouver community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17651 Our AM station is very plugged into the ethnic‑emerging artist music scene in Vancouver, and I have no doubt that this will stimulate the emergence of new talent in this community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17652 It takes a strong, well‑financed company such as the Pattison Broadcast Group to make these very high‑level contributions to the community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17653 In my view, the Commission has the opportunity to make something very special happen for the emerging artist community of Vancouver in approving the Pattison benefit package.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17654 Number six: I am also impressed with the green component of the Pattison application. Vancouver is a city that prides itself on being extremely environmentally aware, and a station with environmental issues at its heart will be very well received.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17655 For these reasons, I would urge the Commission to license the Pattison Broadcast Group for Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17656 Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you once again.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17657 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17658 We will now hear the presentation of the Cordova Bay Entertainment Group.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17659 Please introduce yourself. You will have ten minutes.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 17660 MR. BURKE: My name is Michael Burke, and I am the President of Cordova Bay Entertainment Group in Victoria, British Columbia.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17661 Good evening. Actually, it is not too often that you get to say good evening to federal government people, except in hospitality suites I guess.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 17662 MR. BURKE: I would like to preface my comments this evening by saying that I feel like I am being asked, as a parent, to choose which child I like best, because there are a lot of great companies applying for these licences, but I am supporting the Jim Pattison Broadcast application, because I believe that, in this particular case, it is best for Vancouver and the Lower Mainland.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17663 The Cordova Bay Entertainment Group has been in business about ten years. I think of ourselves as a micro label, but we are made up of many components: Cordova Bay Records; Fierce Panda Canada, which is a label subsidiary from England; we own a part of Maple Core, which is made up of Open Road Records in Ontario; Maple Music Recording; Grifter Records; and Santana North Distribution.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17664 We also own a significant part of Fierce Panda in the United Kingdom, and we have Cordova Bay in the United Kingdom, as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17665 We represent a number of interesting artists, who all fall into what I would call an emerging vein. We represent a band called State of Shock, and a blues artist by the name of David Gogo, a roots artist by the name of Bill Bourne, an eclectic master named Bob Lanois, roots songwriting gem Winwickem Cordius, and a blues/country/swing band called the Pork Belly Futures.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17666 Of that list, State of Shock was nominated for a Juno Award this year, and they are brand new. David Gogo has been nominated for a Juno Award. Bill Bourne has been nominated for several Juno Awards, and has actually won three. And Bob Lanois has been nominated for a Juno Award.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17667 In the United Kingdom, Cordova Bay represents those artists, plus others, which include Juno‑nominated Michael Kaeshammer, a jazz artist, and we also represent Sam Roberts, who is a Juno nominee and Juno winner.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17668 The music industry in Canada has many, many problems, failings and faults, but probably one of the biggest is the lack of support for emerging artists. At radio, emerging artists are given a bit of lip service, without being given full support, but it might be the best.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17669 We lack national print. We don't have a national print industry, journal, publication, weekly, monthly, so we have a hard time getting our message across to the public about emerging artists. The newspapers, the dailies, they have a hard time caring about emerging artists. That puts more emphasis on our requirement for emerging artist support at radio. It skews the requirement at radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17670 Television does hardly anything to support emerging artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17671 In just over a month's time there will be this year's Juno Awards. I don't know if the Commission is aware that the broadcaster for the Juno Awards does not actually present the awardS for emerging artists, they are done the evening prior to the broadcast.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17672 To support emerging artists, as well as established artists, we require support from various agencies ‑‑ FACTOR, VideoFACT, Starmaker, and MITAP here in British Columbia. MITAP is very, very important to us because, on the West Coast, we have mountains that separate us from the rest of Canada. Touring is extremely expensive, and it is very, very hard to get through.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17673 Those funding agencies do help build some critical mass appeal; however, it is extremely difficult to have a unified and successful campaign within the budget constraints that an inde label like ours works under.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17674 Recently, Billboard started a new electronic publication, weekly, which comes out, I believe, every Wednesday. I think it is in its fourth issue, and I might say that I am very pleased that they have a chart for emerging artists in Canada.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17675 State of Shock, one of our bands, has been number one on that chart for the last 14 weeks, which I find is actually quite amazing, since they have only been publishing for four weeks. But I really accept the 14 weeks. It is very good for us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17676 We will see if that has any impact, but more is required.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17677 In the meantime, talking to individual radio stations to support emerging artists is very labour intensive and very costly. In most cases we have to hire people to handle that function full‑time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17678 The reason I like the Jim Pattison Broadcast application is for The Peak Performance Project. As proposed, I believe that the fund that would be made available could be very, very useful for emerging artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17679 I think the fact that the funding would be kept in British Columbia would be extremely useful for us, where there is a tendency for funding to somehow be funnelled to Ontario and Quebec.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17680 On‑air marketing for that kind of program is almost ‑‑ I am unable to describe what that would be worth. In monetary funds you could put a number there, but for what it means to an emerging artist ‑‑ it is the difference between success and failure.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17681 At this point, we are looking at David Gogo, Bill Bourne and Bob Lanois as three of our artists who would fall immediately into the programs that are outlined in the proposal.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17682 Sometimes it is not what you do, it is how you do it, and I am extremely impressed by the fact that the Jim Pattison Broadcast Group proposal includes a component that was solicited from our organization in this province, MusicBC.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17683 It wasn't a case of going and saying, "Here is how much money we are going to give you. What do you think?"
LISTNUM 1 \l 17684 Or, "Can you guys use this money?"
LISTNUM 1 \l 17685 It was a totally different approach ‑‑ I think Bob D'Eith mentioned it ‑‑ of working with MusicBC, and asking what MusicBC would need, and how it could be delivered.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17686 In the end, perhaps some of the same programs could be developed, but the technique and management style is very impressive.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17687 I also like the fact that there are non‑monetary proposals in the program; for example, assisting artists in putting together a marketing budget, and other related plans.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17688 Most of the inde world dies on not being able to plan. Radio is a marketing giant. Radio really is sales and marketing. If anybody can help artists market, I figure it should be radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17689 The format that the Jim Pattison Broadcast proposal ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 17690 THE SECRETARY: I'm sorry, please conclude. Your ten minutes is up.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17691 MR. BURKE: "Triple A" is a good radio format.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 17692 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17693 Now we will hear the presentation of Theresa Point.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17694 You will have ten minutes. Thank you.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 17695 MS POINT: (Speaking Native language.)
LISTNUM 1 \l 17696 Hello. Good day to you. Just a bit of explanation; my name is Theresa Point. I live here in Vancouver. I am a person of Stó:lō descent, and I come from the Stó:lō Nation Territory, as well as the Coast Salish Territory, which you are standing on today, and I would like to welcome you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17697 The reason I start in my traditional language is because this is how I was taught to introduce myself by my Elders.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17698 I would really like to extend my thanks, first of all, to Aboriginal Voices Radio for having me here today and inviting me to speak, to advocate for them to have a national radio station and to get support from Jim Pattison.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17699 I would also like to thank the CRTC for giving me time today on your agenda. Stay with me. I know it has been a long day and everybody is tired, and there has been a lot of talking.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17700 I am going to get right to the point and talk to you about why I am here today.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17701 As an Aboriginal youth, as an Aboriginal advocate, and as an emerging hip hop artist myself, I do music. I advocate for youth on a daily basis. I sit on the Board of Directors of the Urban Native Youth Association. I have my own radio show here in Vancouver, which I do for free. It is co‑op radio, one hour, once a month. I get one hour to squeeze all of the content, and all of the new Aboriginal artists, and all of our interests, and all of our promotion and community events into one hour, once a month.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17702 We really just don't have a venue. We don't have support for some of the issues that are arising in our communities that are detrimental for our young people. There are so many things that are happening that should not be happening to our young people, from the suicides up in Gitxsan to the gang violence on the streets.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17703 I am reaming off the hook here, because I have a very busy schedule, and I took time out today because I really believe that this is an important initiative, especially for the urban communities here in Vancouver. But not just that, for the rural communities as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17704 There are young people, Aboriginal youth, in rural communities who have satellite radio. They are tapping into mainstream radio, and what are they getting? They are getting a lot of the crap from the mainstream, and the messages about gang violence, and perpetuating youth sexuality and drugs and alcoholism.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17705 We really don't need any more of that. We need some positive messages instilled in our young people. We need positive role models. We need marketing and a venue to advocate and to promote the good things that are happening.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17706 One thing we talk to our youth about on a daily basis is that we want to come from a strength‑base perspective. We don't want to segregate ourselves from the rest of society, but there is the realization there that we are different. We have a different context in which we speak.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17707 There are 300‑plus Aboriginal languages within B.C. We are overrepresented in all of the marginalized groups: in the jail systems, in the AIDS epidemic, in the suicide rates, in the Ministry of Children and Family Development.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17708 I also work for them. I know what is going on there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17709 I do youth advocacy and youth engagement.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17710 Young people need healthy risks in their lives. They need a place where they can hear good things, and I really think that Aboriginal Voices Radio is trying to promote that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17711 The Friendship Centre downtown, here in East Vancouver, plays AVR. They don't even have a DJ, but they play it off the hook, 24/7, because that is all we have to listen to.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17712 And it is in Toronto. We are not very connected to it, but we listen to it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17713 They play my music on AVR. I didn't know, but I hear a lot of my little cousins and a lot of the young people from the community saying, "Hey, I heard you on the radio. I am so stoked."
LISTNUM 1 \l 17714 They listen to AVR just to hear ‑‑ and they wait two hours for my one song to come on.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17715 We could be supporting so many other Aboriginal artists. I heard the other guy who was up here, the crazy guy with the hat. He was really funny.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 17716 MS POINT: He was talking about the different music that no one understands. It is cultural, or whatever. Sure, there is that aspect to our music. We have powwow music, and it is in our language. You can go to a powwow and hear that stuff.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17717 But we have hip hop music. We have blues music. We have rock'n'roll players. My sister is an amazing R&B singer. She should be on 94.5. But, you know what? There is no venue for her. There is no room for that. She is not Britney Spears, so they don't play her, but they will play Britney 20 times a day.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17718 I really believe that our music is getting dusty on the shelf for no good reason.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17719 I wrote down a whole bunch of different things that I haven't gotten to yet, because this is all the stuff that is coming out.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17720 There are so many reasons and so many different things that I could advocate for, but...
LISTNUM 1 \l 17721 As I was sitting down, I was looking at this picture of my nephew that I carry around with me in my bag, and I was looking at this quote that I wrote down from an Elder.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17722 We come from a community‑based perspective. Family and community is very important, and those things can be promoted through radio. Those kinds of values can be shared through radio. It shouldn't be just young people like me who are privileged enough to be in touch with our Elders and be in touch with the culture, it should be a widespread thing across Canada. We should have a venue to share our stories, our successes, to promote the powerful and amazing role models we have, not the people who are being represented in the media as drunks, and marginalization, and suicides, and all of the negative perpetuated things that happen in mainstream radio and media.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17723 Part of my reason for being here today is to advocate for the artists, but also the Aboriginal businesses, also for our success stories, also for our role models, also for our leaders and our leadership, and the politics that we have within our own communities that doesn't get promoted.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17724 We don't have that kind of venue, and it is high time that we get the support to do that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17725 As an Aboriginal youth, yes, I support Aboriginal Voices Radio coming to Vancouver, having its own station, having its own airwaves, having its own story, because there are so many stories here. There are sad stories and there are good stories. There is good and bad to everything.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17726 I really think that this is going to be a huge benefit to our community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17727 Also, we come from an oral history. We never wrote anything down. We don't have books that tell us what we are about. No, we talk about it, and that's what radio is about. It's about talk. We could have Elders, we could have youth ‑‑ we have so many different people.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17728 It's a venue for culture. It's a venue for sharing. It's a venue for Aboriginal business, for positive messages for our communities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17729 We need role models, ownership and identity.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17730 It would get played in the stores and the drop‑in centres.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17731 There are so many reasons ‑‑ et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I am not going to exhaust you with the statistics, because we all know them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17732 One thing that I really appreciate the AVR representative saying is that we aren't in the media, not unless you see something negative, not unless you see somebody getting stabbed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17733 The youth that I see who are on the streets are trying to imitate the rappers they see on TV. They are trying to act like we come from the ghetto, or the United States and we should be carrying guns.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17734 That is not the future I want to see for my peers. I really want to see them looking up to positive role models and getting positive messages, and I really, really, honestly believe that that will come through more venues like AVR.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17735 If I helped you to understand that today, good.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17736 This isn't the kind of mic I am used to talking in. I am usually on a stage with a mic in my hand, and I get to sing what I feel and rap what I feel. So this is a bit different for me today, but I really appreciate you giving me any time whatsoever on your schedule, and I hope that you consider this application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17737 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17738 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Menzies, please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17739 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Ms Point, I will start with you, because you have a busy schedule. I am sure the others do, too, but...
LISTNUM 1 \l 17740 I want to assure you that you, and your passion, and your sense of mission were well worth staying awake for.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17741 MS POINT: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17742 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: I have a quick question, in terms of how you might see AVR, in terms of how it provides you a platform.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17743 For an emerging artist such as yourself, would you see AVR as the goal, or would you see it as the rocket launcher for you?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17744 MS POINT: I think, in part, AVR is one of those places ‑‑ I don't want to call it a stepping stone, because it is a huge industry and enterprise that could evolve on its own and become massive. It could be so many things.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17745 I don't think it's a goal. I think that we can have so much more than just radio. We could have our own media. We could have our own industries. We could have our own cultural context.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17746 I would probably go with the rocket launcher thing you said.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17747 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17748 Mr. D'Eith, how significant would The Peak's contribution be to you in terms of your overall annual budget?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17749 MR. D'EITH: Our annual budget right now is about $500,000. If you add The Peak, which would be 700‑plus, it would over double our budget.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17750 It would also stabilize ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 17751 One of the problems we have at MusicBC ‑‑ and all of the MIAs have this problem ‑‑ is that we are fighting every year to survive, because of cuts, and funding is not stabilized.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17752 Having a seven‑year commitment like this would not only be an incredible service to the industry and the emerging artists, it would also stabilize MusicBC, and that would allow us to do that much more in the community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17753 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: You indicated earlier that ‑‑ I just want to check the number, so I know if I heard it correctly ‑‑ you felt it would be of some assistance to 500 artists per year?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17754 MR. D'EITH: No, no, it would be 500 in total.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17755 If you look at the 20 artists that we would take through the boot camp, who would also have the concert experience, and then there would be 3 who would get the more significant funding.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17756 But it is really the process that is the most exciting part. It is taking those artists through this process of learning, through doing, and, at the end, all of those 20 artists should be in a position to move their careers forward.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17757 If we do that by 7 times, that is ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 17758 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay. I am glad I asked, because it seemed a little thin per artist, as significant as the amount is.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17759 MR. D'EITH: And MITAP will ‑‑ you know, we might fund $1,000 per artist over the year, so $50,000. So 50 a year, that would be another 350 artists. So it would total nearly 500.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17760 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17761 Mr. Hill, you were describing AVR's challenges. Has AVR accumulated any debt to date?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17762 Is it in debt or not?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17763 MR. HILL: Yes, we have accumulated debt. We are in debt, and that is something that happened from a very early point in AVR's history.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17764 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Is it a significant burden for you?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17765 MR. HILL: Yes, I think it is significant.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17766 You are aware that we have ‑‑ we went through the numbers. We have had revenue come in over the years, but the fact that we had to, I would say, very aggressively apply for frequencies ‑‑ which we didn't originally expect to do. We wanted to build up a little slower, probably.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17767 Because we were afraid that no frequencies would be available, we had to be very aggressive on the frequencies, which has caused us to move forward with, I guess, inadequate revenues, from what we would have liked to have done.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17768 In trying to make sure that there was a national Aboriginal network, we did take on some debt.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17769 But I have to say that the debt is being reduced, and I am very happy ‑‑ I have been with AVR for three and a half years, and I am very happy because the debt has been reduced very significantly since I have been there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17770 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17771 You referred to a new initiative to establish long‑term funding. Can you talk about that, or do you wish that to remain confidential for the time being?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17772 MR. HILL: At this point I would like it to remain confidential, because it is not really complete yet. It is something that we are working on, and it would be better for us to have it remain confidential at this point in time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17773 Of course, we are going to come to you with it and explain it, and so forth, but I would prefer if we could keep it confidential right now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17774 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: That's fine. It's just that, if there was something special to tell us ‑‑ but I'll wait.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17775 MR. HILL: We think we are getting close.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 17776 MR. HILL: And we are very anxious to tell you, I want to say.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17777 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17778 Mr. Burke, financially, what is your estimation of the flow‑through impact of this initiative to your company and your artists?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17779 MR. BURKE: Obviously, the flow‑through would depend on how MusicBC actually divvies out any funds directly.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17780 I would say that the program ‑‑ the non‑monetary program would probably have the most immediate impact in helping some of the artists we have put together ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 17781 Even putting together budgets and projections, which would help get other funding from other agencies.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17782 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: I want to get your estimation on ‑‑ what convinces you, in terms of the format commitment?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17783 I know you kind of got cut off at the end. What convinces you in terms of that, that it will create a genuine opportunity, and that what you have heard this week ‑‑ and this doesn't relate to Pattison any more than it does to any of the others ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 17784 Because, frankly, on this side of the table, sometimes you get the sense that people are just telling you what they think you want to hear.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17785 What convinces you that what you are hearing this week is more than just lip service to emerging artists?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17786 MR. BURKE: "Triple A" is the gating item. It is hard to do, but if you are committed to it, it can create a fertile base for emerging artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17787 Traditionally, you have to have a hit record to do anything in radio, and hit records are very hard to come by.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17788 And there a lot of artists, who are outstanding artists, who don't have a hit record or a hit single, but they have albums that are outstanding.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17789 "Triple A" allows a radio station to go deeper into the music that is being presented by an artist, which is something that most other formats could never ever address. They are focused on one thing, and they stick on that focus until it no longer suits them, and then they focus on someone else.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17790 "Triple A" is like the old days in radio, where you can actually listen to two or three songs from the same artist, and it builds up people's expectations of what that artist is and what that artist can deliver. And that creates stars.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17791 If you look back at a lot of big names in the music business, internationally, they could never make it today in the music business. They made it when all radio was like "Triple A".
LISTNUM 1 \l 17792 I remember in the late seventies, in Toronto, CHUM FM switched to a program where they didn't play a single from some artist. A record came out, they would play three or four tracks from that album in a row. And that was continuous. You never heard one song by an artist, you heard three songs in a row by all artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17793 I never bought more records in my life than I did at that time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17794 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17795 Madam Chair, that concludes my questions for this group.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17796 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Williams.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17797 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good afternoon, and welcome to the later part of our hearing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17798 I want to talk with Mr. Hill and ‑‑ is it Ms Point?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17799 It is Point. I'm sorry about that, I didn't hear your name clearly.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17800 Mr. Hill, has AVR been successful in getting widespread support from the Aboriginal community on both the national and regional/local level?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17801 I have to tell you ‑‑ I want to hear your answer, of course, but you have appeared before us many times, and I am quite personally encouraged that you brought an example of local support in the presence of Ms Point, from this particular area. It's a good move.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17802 MR. HILL: I guess I would like to answer that by saying that, historically, over the life of AVR, we have received incredible support from everyone we have talked to.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17803 I actually came to the last Assembly of First Nations AGM, which was here in Vancouver, and I talked to tons of people ‑‑ people from here, as well as the leadership ‑‑ and we always got an incredible reception, and incredible support. They are just waiting for us to increase where AVR is at, and improve where AVR is at.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17804 I can't remember when we have not gotten an extremely warm welcome. I guess that people aspire to the things that we do, personally, and they are always very supportive.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17805 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There was an intervenor earlier today from the Nuu‑Chah‑Nulth Development Corporation, representing communities in the remote parts of western Vancouver Island, which, I don't think, have a way of receiving AVR, but they were in support of AVR, as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17806 Is that the case in many other parts of Canada?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17807 MR. HILL: Yes. Because it is national in nature, we have talked to a lot of people throughout Canada, and we always get the same response, that everybody is waiting for us to blow up AVR so that it has a robust programming service, and so that, as Theresa mentioned, people's voices will be heard.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17808 That is the promise in our aspiration, and really our objective, from the outset, which you are aware of, Commissioner.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17809 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17810 MR. HILL: That is where we want to go, and that's what everybody wants.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17811 It is very important to them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17812 They have talked about the promise of AVR and how it can improve the lives of Aboriginal people, how emerging Aboriginal artists can finally get a place to be heard, not only amongst the Aboriginal community, which everybody is very excited about, but also amongst the rest of Canadians.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17813 So, yes, it has been extremely positive everywhere, and people are waiting for us to advance it further.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17814 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: AVR's history has been, I guess, financially challenged right from the beginning. That might be one way of putting it. But you are suggesting that the Pattison injection of CCD benefits, should their application be successful, would replace some of the existing funding that is scheduled to drop off a couple of years from now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17815 MR. HILL: Yes, it is declining as we move along.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17816 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But you will still have the same 70 percent going to your overhead, just to keep the doors open, so to speak.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17817 Then, we heard earlier today that a lot of the same music is played over and over again. I think you even mentioned it in your remarks on AVR.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17818 What do you think is the best way to develop it, so that, in fact, it can become much more than what it is today?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17819 MR. HILL: One thing that I think we have achieved, which I am very happy about, because we couldn't do this in the beginning, and we couldn't do it through the history of AVR, is that I think we have improved the diversity and the quality of music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17820 We have specifically, in the past year, gone out and tried to find Aboriginal artists and get their recordings. That is a big step for us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17821 We were limited in being able to do that in the past, just because of all of the other challenges that we had to deal with.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17822 I guess you could say that we had bigger fish to fry in the past, as you are aware, in getting these licences actually on the air.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17823 When I started out, we had one on the air so far, and we worked very diligently and persevered to get the rest of the six on the air, which we now have done.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17824 The sequence was to get them on the air, and then, once we had done that, to move into improving the programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17825 The fact that we have gone through the expense of actually getting them to the point where they are broadcasting now will allow us to move into improving the programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17826 But we are still thin financially, and the fact that the Pattison Group has offered the amount it has, it is very significant for us now to start to work at improving the programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17827 MR. WOOD: Commissioner, if I could add to that, in the early stages of the development of the Vancouver service AVR's programming operated off an iPod. AVR would, effectively, record about four or five hours of Aboriginal music programming on the iPod, send it out to Vancouver, and play the iPod from Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17828 Once the iPod cycled through the four or five hours, and then recycled again, and then again, and then again, the perception of repetition certainly became an irritant to the average listener.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17829 But if AVR operated the way a normal radio station does, it would have an appropriate delivery system to send its live programming to Vancouver.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17830 Secondly, if it had the money to set up a music department, with a full‑time music director developing new, fresh rotations every day, that would not be a problem.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17831 There certainly is a wealth of music. It is not a question of lack of music. The music is there, we just need the money to be able to rotate it properly.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17832 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms Point stated that the Friendship Centre played AVR, in spite of the fact that it was primarily Toronto programmed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17833 Would you put a regional/local focus into the programming?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17834 MR. HILL: Absolutely.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17835 I guess that we select the music in Toronto, but the artists are spread all across the country ‑‑ Aboriginal people from all across the country. We haven't really, I guess, had any type of approach where we have been geographical specific, as far as the notion of just focusing on Toronto artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17836 I would have to say that that has never happened.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17837 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. The perception is that the programming is all coming from Toronto, but the reality is that it is coming from everywhere.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17838 MR. HILL: Yes, and we play a number of British Columbia artists now on the air.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17839 But the music that is on there now is relatively new, and people might not be aware of the AVR story and where the music is coming from.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17840 They can hear a few artists that they are aware of, but the artists are coming from Alberta and Saskatchewan and Nova Scotia and Ontario. They are from everywhere.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17841 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are there many artists coming from outside Canada?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17842 MR. HILL: Yes, we have a proportion that comes from outside Canada. We have some Native American artists on the air. We also have some indigenous people from South America, for instance.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17843 We have indigenous artists from south of the U.S., as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17844 Right now, I guess, we are hovering between 50 and 60 percent Canadian Aboriginal artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17845 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fifty to 60 percent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17846 MR. HILL: I expect that will probably increase as artists realize that AVR is a venue for them to have their music heard. It will encourage new artists to contact us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17847 We have had a lot of music come in, now that people are aware that we are there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17848 There are, I guess, relationships between Native Americans in the United States and Canadian Aboriginals.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17849 For instance, in the case of my people, the Canadian‑U.S. border runs right down the middle of our traditional territory. My people really straddle the border.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17850 They are on both sides of the border, and they are the same people. They have the same culture. There are intermarriages across the border because we are the same people and we have the same culture.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17851 We have that situation, as well. The fact that the Canadian‑U.S. border is there doesn't really speak to who some Aboriginal nations are. They straddle the border.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17852 So, culturally, the music is the same.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17853 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sixty percent of Canadian Aboriginal artists. I guess we could term them as emerging artists, for the most part.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17854 MR. HILL: I would say that, right now, all of our artists are emerging artists, including the U.S. and the indigenous artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17855 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17856 Ms Point, how much interaction do you have with AVR?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17857 MS POINT: Currently, this is my first direct interaction with AVR, coming as an intervenor, and having them contact me previous to this to ask for my assistance, and sort of seeking support locally, and finding out what the temperature is here on the West Coast for AVR.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17858 I was really happy to let them know that, "Yes, we are playing you at the Friendship Centre." People listen to the frequency in their cars, even though it is not really locally based.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17859 Also, just finding out, too, that they play my music. I wasn't even aware of that. And that's amazing to me.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17860 We are always welcoming venues that we can play our music on, especially nationally. That is a phenomenal opportunity.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17861 Does that answer your question?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17862 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, it gives me a good indication.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17863 I enjoyed your intervention. I found it very helpful, so it was wise that you came.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17864 MS POINT: Great. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17865 MR. WOOD: Commissioner, if I could interject with one additional response ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 17866 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, Mr. Wood.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17867 MR. WOOD: You made the point both today and, actually, in a previous hearing ‑‑ I think it was in Regina where you asked about the extent of AVR's involvement in the community, or its support in the community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17868 AVR has never had a problem getting support in the community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17869 Where it does have a problem is having the human and financial resources to go across the country into the communities to say, "Here is what we are doing."
LISTNUM 1 \l 17870 We know there will be tremendous response, it just costs money.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17871 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Thank you very much for that, Mr. Wood.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17872 Those are my questions, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17873 THE CHAIRPERSON: On that note, Mr. Burke, I have one question.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17874 I know that you support the Pattison Group in the funding that they will supply to the emerging artist initiatives.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17875 There are other applicants who have committed to providing more airtime.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17876 What tipped the balance for you to decide in terms of money versus airtime?
LISTNUM 1 \l 17877 MR. BURKE: In my experience, the promises of paying money are held, the promises of airplay aren't.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17878 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17879 Those are our questions. Thank you very much for staying so late. I know you are all very busy, so thank you for your time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17880 MR. HILL: Madam Chair, if I could finish by saying that the Pattison Group has been really wonderful for AVR, very supportive, and I know that they support Aboriginal people. They have a history of that, and they have been really great for us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17881 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Hill.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17882 We will adjourn for the night, and we will return tomorrow morning at 8:30, please.
‑‑‑ Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1833, to resume
on Friday, February 29, 2008, at 0830 / L'audience
est ajournée à 1833, pour reprendre le vendredi, 29
fevrier 2008 à 0830
REPORTERS
____________________ ____________________
Barbara Neuberger Beverley Dillabough
____________________ ____________________
Jean Desaulniers Sue Villeneuve
- Date modified: