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Providing Content in Canada's Official Languages
Please note that the Official Languages Act requires that government publications be available in both official languages.
In order to meet some of the requirements under this Act, the Commission's transcripts will therefore be bilingual as to their covers, the listing of CRTC members and staff attending the hearings, and the table of contents.
However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded verbatim transcript and, as such, is transcribed in either of the official languages, depending on the language spoken by the participant at the hearing.
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS BEFORE
THE CANADIAN RADIO‑TELEVISION AND
TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DEVANT
LE CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION
ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES
SUBJECT/SUJET:
Various broadcasting applications further to calls for
applications for broadcasting licences to carry on radio programming undertakings to serve Owen Sound, Windsor and Peterborough, Ontario /
Plusieurs demandes en radiodiffusion suite aux appels de demandes de licence de radiodiffusion visant l'exploitation d'entreprises de programmation de radio pour desservir Owen Sound, Windsor et Peterborough (Ontario)
HELD AT: TENUE À:
Rooms B, C & D Salons B, C et D
Delta Hotel London Armouries Hôtel Delta London Armouries
325 Dundas Street 325, rue Dundas
London, Ontario London (Ontario)
December 10, 2007 Le 10 décembre 2007
Transcripts
In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages
Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be
bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members
and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of
Contents.
However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded
verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in
either of the official languages, depending on the language
spoken by the participant at the public hearing.
Transcription
Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues
officielles, les procès‑verbaux pour le Conseil seront
bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des
membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience
publique ainsi que la table des matières.
Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu
textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée
et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues
officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le
participant à l'audience publique.
Canadian Radio‑television and
Telecommunications Commission
Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des
télécommunications canadiennes
Transcript / Transcription
Various broadcasting applications further to calls for
applications for broadcasting licences to carry on radio programming undertakings to serve Owen Sound, Windsor and Peterborough, Ontario /
Plusieurs demandes en radiodiffusion suite aux appels de demandes de licence de radiodiffusion visant l'exploitation d'entreprises de programmation de radio pour desservir Owen Sound, Windsor et Peterborough (Ontario)
BEFORE / DEVANT:
Rita Cugini Chairperson / Présidente
Peter Menzies Commissioner / Conseiller
Helen del Val Commissioner / Conseillère
ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS:
Cindy Ventura Secretary / Secrétaire
Joe Aguiar Hearing Manager /
Gérant de l'audience
Kelly-Anne Smith Legal Counsel /
Conseillère juridique
HELD AT: TENUE À:
Rooms B C D Salons B C D
Delta Hotel London Armouries Hôtel Delta London Armouries
325 Dundas Street 325, rue Dundas
London, Ontario London (Ontario)
December 10, 2007 Le 10 décembre 2007
- iv -
TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE / PARA
PHASE I
PRÉSENTATION PAR / PRESENTATION BY:
2079966 Ontario Limited 5 / 26
Blackburn Radio Inc. 60 / 403
Larche Communications Inc. 120 / 779
Evanov Communications Inc. 169 / 1079
PHASE II
No interventions / Aucune intervention
PHASE III
INTERVENTION PAR / INTERVENTION BY:
Jamie Pettit 221 / 1380
Walkerton and District Health Services Foundation 233 / 1448
Bayshore Broadcasting Corporation 240 / 1500
PHASE IV
REPLY BY / RÉPLIQUE PAR:
Evanov Communications Inc. 262 / 1613
Blackburn Radio Inc. 272 / 1660
2079966 Ontario Limited 282 / 1710
London, Ontario / London (Ontario)
‑‑‑ Upon commencing on Monday, December 10, 2007
at 0930 / L'audience débute le lundi
10 décembre 2007 à 0930
LISTNUM 1 \l 11 THE CHAIRPERSON: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen and welcome to this public hearing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 12 My name is Rita Cugini and I am the CRTC Regional Commissioner for Ontario. In case you hadn't guessed by now, I will be presiding over this hearing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 13 Joining me on the panel are my colleagues, Helen del Val, Regional Commissioner for British Columbia and the Yukon, and Peter Menzies, National Commissioner.
LISTNUM 1 \l 14 The Commission team assisting us includes Hearing Manager Joe Aguiar, who is also Manager of English Radio Operations; Kelly‑Anne Smith, Legal Counsel;and Cindy Ventura, Hearing Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 15 Please speak with Ms Ventura if you have any questions with regard to hearing procedures.
LISTNUM 1 \l 16 At this hearing we will begin by considering four applications to operate a new English‑language FM commercial radio station in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 17 The panel will then examine two applications to operate a new FM commercial radio station in Windsor.
LISTNUM 1 \l 18 Finally, we will look at six applications to operate a new English‑language FM commercial radio station in Peterborough, as well as an application to convert the English‑language commercial radio station CKRU Peterborough from the AM band to the FM band and three applications to operate a new English‑language FM commercial radio station in Kawartha Lakes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 19 I will now invite the Hearing Secretary, Cindy Ventura, to explain the procedures we will be following. Ms Ventura...
LISTNUM 1 \l 110 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 111 Before beginning, I would like to go over a few housekeeping matters to ensure the proper conduct of the hearing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 112 Le service d'interprétation simultanée est disponible durant cette audience. Vous pouvez vous procurer un récepteur auprès du technicien à l'arrière de la salle. L'interprétation anglaise se trouve au canal 1, et l'interprétation française au canal 2.
LISTNUM 1 \l 113 When you are in the hearing room we would ask that you please turn off your cell phones, beepers and BlackBerrys as they are an unwelcome distraction and they cause interference on the internal communication systems used by our translators. We would appreciate your cooperation in this regard throughout the hearing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 114 We expect the hearing to take approximately four and a half days, starting today until Friday. Starting tomorrow we will begin each morning at 9:00 a.m. We will take an hour for lunch, a break in the morning and a break in the afternoon. We will let you know of any schedule changes as they may occur.
LISTNUM 1 \l 115 The Gunnery Ballroom will serve as the examination room where you can examine the public files of the applications being considered at this hearing. As indicated in the agenda, the telephone number of the examination room is 519‑660‑0688.
LISTNUM 1 \l 116 There is a verbatim transcript of the hearing being taken by the court reporter sitting at the table in front of me. If you have any questions on how to obtain all or part of this transcript, please approach the court reporter during a break.
LISTNUM 1 \l 117 Please note that the full transcript will be made available on the Commission's website shortly after the conclusion of the hearing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 118 Also, in Broadcasting Notice of Public Hearing 2007‑14‑4 the Commission announced its decision to consider two CBC Windsor technical amendment applications, items 7 and 8, as part of the non‑appearing phase of the public hearing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 119 For the record, the Commission was advised by Mr. Neeti P. Ray on his intention to submit an intervention commenting on the CBC application, item 7 on the Notice of Public Hearing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 120 Accordingly, the Commission has approved his request and Mr. Ray has submitted his intervention to the Commission with a copy to the CBC. The CBC may file its written response by December 17th, 2007.
LISTNUM 1 \l 121 A copy of Mr. Ray's intervention is available in the public examination room and has been added to the public examination file.
LISTNUM 1 \l 122 Now, Madam Chair, we will proceed with item 1 on the agenda, which is an application by 2079966 Ontario Limited for a licence to operate an English‑language FM commercial radio programming undertaking in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 123 The new station would operate on frequency 92.3 MHz (channel 222B) with an average effective radiated power of 32,000 watts (non‑directional antenna/antenna height of 104 metres).
LISTNUM 1 \l 124 Appearing for the Applicant is Mr. Brian Cooper. Please introduce your colleagues and you will have 20 minutes for your presentation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 125 Mr. Cooper.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
LISTNUM 1 \l 126 MR. COOPER: Madam Chair, members of the Commission, my name is Brian Cooper. I am President of 2079966 Ontario Limited, which owns and operates The Coast FM in Kincardine, which is situated 75 kilometres south of Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 127 I would like to begin by introducing our ownership group, and, in particular, give you a little background on myself and my partner, Danny McCarthy, as principals of this application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 128 I have been in entertainment for the last 30 years. Some highlights ‑‑ I was the former President and COO of the Toronto Argonauts when Wayne Gretsky and John CandY owned the club.
LISTNUM 1 \l 129 I was the former President and COO of Inside Sports, a TV broadcast and production company. My partner in that venture was Mr. Larry Tanenbaum, who is the current Chairman of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, which owns the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Toronto Raptors.
LISTNUM 1 \l 130 While I was there, I was the founding partner of the NHL Network, along with TSN and the NHL, as well as Goal TV and the World Fishing Network.
LISTNUM 1 \l 131 Currently I am President and CEO of Sports and Entertainment. We are a marketing consultancy group, with clients like Warner Brothers, Sirius Satellite Radio, Scotiabank, and a host of others.
LISTNUM 1 \l 132 My partner, Danny McCarthy, and I met 35 years ago at St. Mary's University as accounting students. Dan is a chartered accountant. He has 20 years in the investment banking industry. He is currently Vice‑Chairman of CIBC World Markets, and has engineered some of the largest financing deals in Canadian corporate history.
LISTNUM 1 \l 133 One thing we both have in common is our love for rock'n'roll music. Both Dan and I were DJs at St. Mary's University's radio station, and even to this date Dan is the lead singer of a rock group called The Hedge Funds. Fortunately, he is not going to be singing for us today.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 134 On my right is Christopher Grossman, President of Haliburton Radio Broadcasting Group, which owns and operates 18 small market licences throughout Ontario.
LISTNUM 1 \l 135 On my left, next to Danny, is the key builder of this application, Mike Brough, who is the General Manager of The Coast Kincardine FM, and will be the General Manager of The Pearl if our application is approved.
LISTNUM 1 \l 136 Next to Mike, on his left, is Lynda Cooper, who is the News Director of our Kincardine operation, and will be assuming that role in Owen Sound if our application is approved.
LISTNUM 1 \l 137 Also on the panel, on my right, is Wendy Gray, the Operations Manager of Haliburton Broadcasting Group.
LISTNUM 1 \l 138 Commissioners, our goal for this application is, one, to repatriate the rock radio tuning back to local radio in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 139 Two, to add a new local editorial and ownership voice in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 140 Three, to improve the balance of radio ownership in the Grey Bruce Region.
LISTNUM 1 \l 141 Four, to strengthen our station in Kincardine.
LISTNUM 1 \l 142 Five, to repatriate hundreds of thousands of radio ad spend dollars that are going out of market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 143 And six, to provide the citizens of Owen Sound with a much needed music genre that isn't currently being offered by a local radio operator.
LISTNUM 1 \l 144 We started The Coast FM in Ontario with great enthusiasm as a long‑time summer resident there and with strong ties to the community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 145 The thought of making our contribution to the broadcast system was and is exciting. The learning curve has been quite a ride, but Kincardine is on the air and is now very much a part of the fabric of the community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 146 It is something I am very proud of. Our focus on community and public service have become the tenets of our operation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 147 It has not been without its challenges and a few unexpected obstacles. Particularly, when we first launched, some of the agreements we had in place to utilize existing towers were reneged upon. This set us back and cost us significantly more money and time than we expected.
LISTNUM 1 \l 148 Needless to say, we are up and strong, and the operational delays have been overcome. Regardless, we have been successful in launching Kincardine, and we are hoping to have our repeaters in Goderich and Port Elgin up and running shortly, once we receive approval from the Commission on our application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 149 Part of our early success in Kincardine and assisting with our ability to overcome the start‑up obstacles was the participation of Haliburton Broadcasting Group. Their experience, infrastructure and network provided us with invaluable resources.
LISTNUM 1 \l 150 The entire experience has provided us with the ability to expand our radio holdings, and we approach the possibility of launching in Owen Sound with great expectation and enthusiasm.
LISTNUM 1 \l 151 It is our goal to build a new radio company. We want to be a new, vibrant entry into the radio business. It is our sense that the radio business needs new, vibrant ownership, and we are up for it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 152 We need to create synergies and efficiencies. We believe that a formula of programming, marketing and community integration will be a success in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 153 We invite you to ask anyone in our market about The Coast FM. Their answer is, inevitably, that we are their voice in the community and their choice in music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 154 We believe that the efficiencies we will gain by having The Pearl will allow us to provide the residents of both Kincardine and Owen Sound with great community‑based radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 155 MR. McCARTHY: Good morning. We are here today to apply for a rock radio station, The Pearl, for the city of Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 156 Our process in making this application was, first, to find a format that had proven top‑rated BBM demand over a long period of time, a format that the Owen Sound radio listener wanted.
LISTNUM 1 \l 157 Second, that we were sensitive to the size of the market, and that the format was financially viable, at both an audience and advertising level, and the new service was not a fringe or narrow format that had little chance for success.
LISTNUM 1 \l 158 Third, that we had the people resources to launch a rock product successfully, and that also had a proven track record of programming successfully in the Owen Sound radio market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 159 Fourth, that this new station would add a new and relevant editorial and ownership voice to the community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 160 Fifth, as a new ownership entry, that we have the support and expertise of a radio company with small market expertise and a proven track record of success in launching a single station up against a one‑owner, multi‑cluster radio group.
LISTNUM 1 \l 161 We looked for a format that had little to no effect on the incumbent local radio operator.
LISTNUM 1 \l 162 Our audience will be largely comprised of repatriated Owen Sound rock radio listeners who are currently listening to The Bull.
LISTNUM 1 \l 163 Finally, and most importantly, in this time of rapid technological change affecting the radio business, our business plan, revenue estimates, and CCD benefits are realistic and sensible for the size of the Owen Sound market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 164 Our goal is not to make unrealistic promises in both CCD revenue and audience estimates and come back three years from now to say we can't make a go of it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 165 MS GRAY: Owen Sound is an oddity in southern Ontario because one broadcaster owns three licences in a relatively small market, but the top‑rated station is one that is broadcast 85 kilometres away, in another small market, Wingham, Ontario.
LISTNUM 1 \l 166 Owen Sound is a rare jewel. It melds together the economic and retail hustle and bustle of the hub of the Grey Bruce Region and the natural pristine beauty of Georgian Bay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 167 Owen Sound is rich with nature. Its hidden streams, waterfalls, exotic gardens of rare orchids and ferns, clear blue water and relaxing beaches make it a tourist destination for nature lovers and historians alike.
LISTNUM 1 \l 168 But Owen Sound is growing. This 150‑year‑old city is expanding and prospering as new commercial and industrial growth populates the northwest end of Grey County, and is located in or just adjacent to Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 169 It has a strong and motivated workforce. Employment is healthiest during the spring, summer and fall, due to the seasonal tourism that Owen Sound enjoys.
LISTNUM 1 \l 170 However, Bruce Power, the County of Grey, and Durham Furniture are ranked the top three employers, with over 500 employed. There are also five employers with over 250 employees, and 13 employers with 100 to 250 employees.
LISTNUM 1 \l 171 It offers a unique alternative to big city living, with affordable and available housing compared to other urban centres to the south.
LISTNUM 1 \l 172 In the past 10 years the city of Owen Sound has made significant strides to improve its image as not only a nature‑based travel destination, but also a business, commercial and cultural centre.
LISTNUM 1 \l 173 Owen Sound is a unique city, vibrant with nature, and rich in its history, as it was once known as the Chicago of the North.
LISTNUM 1 \l 174 Retail sales are robust and healthy in Owen Sound. According to FP Market, retail sales growth is expected to increase by 22.7 percent between 2007 and 2012.
LISTNUM 1 \l 175 Retail spending is well above the national average. According to FP Market, retail spending in Owen Sound, Bruce County and Grey County could reach $1.7 billion this year.
LISTNUM 1 \l 176 FP Market also projects retail sales to grow by 8.2 percent in Grey County and by 15 percent in Bruce County by 2009.
LISTNUM 1 \l 177 According to Statistics Canada, Owen Sound's population grew by 2.1 percent between 2001 and 2006.
LISTNUM 1 \l 178 In Owen Sound central, the 12‑plus BBM cell population is 114,000.
LISTNUM 1 \l 179 Taking into consideration the profitability of the existing stations in Owen Sound and the demand for a current and classic rock radio station, we believe the time is right for a new radio service in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 180 The largest benefit of The Pearl would be to its listeners. Currently, rock radio listeners, especially men aged 18 to 49, are tuning out of market for rock radio. That leaves them with little, if any, local news content, traffic, weather and community information.
LISTNUM 1 \l 181 A new rock radio FM service in Owen Sound would repatriate that lucrative demographic to a local service, providing the local information they need to know.
LISTNUM 1 \l 182 Couple that with the repatriation of advertising spending into Owen Sound, we feel that The Pearl would have little impact on the existing local radio operator.
LISTNUM 1 \l 183 The Pearl will offer this vibrant city a distinct new editorial voice, while repatriating out‑of‑market tuning with its rock‑based format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 184 It would also enhance synergies with our existing Kincardine station, CIYN.
LISTNUM 1 \l 185 MR. BROUGH: Mother of all rock, 92.3 The Pearl. Pearly inlay is used to dress up guitars. Pearl was Janis Joplin's nickname.
LISTNUM 1 \l 186 The Pearl is a highly valued gemstone that is associated with richness and class. The Pearl rock station will resonate with class. It will be a mature presentation of the greatest rock music ever recorded.
LISTNUM 1 \l 187 I was the original program director of Blackburn Radio's rock station The Bull, CIBU, in Wingham. I put that station together, knowing the huge effect it would have in the Owen Sound market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 188 Owen Sound is a rock town. It has long been a hotbed for live rock acts. The community supports live music, and now it will have a radio station that will provide 100 percent support for local musicians.
LISTNUM 1 \l 189 Years ago I can remember seeing the great Canadian punk band Teenage Head at a popular Owen Sound nightclub called The Downtowner. It is no longer there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 190 I saw another great Canadian band called The Kings at Westhill Secondary School.
LISTNUM 1 \l 191 The list of fairly major rock acts to hit the Sound at various venues is legendary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 192 There is also a groundswell of local musicians who will prosper and flourish because of The Pearl.
LISTNUM 1 \l 193 I have worked with many of the seasoned music veterans in Owen Sound over the years, hiring many at an area nightclub I once owned, and I am looking forward to breaking new ground with the new, exciting talent that is there right now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 194 A song will never become a classic unless it receives some airtime and somebody actually hears it. The Pearl will champion new Canadian rock acts, with even more emphasis on the tremendous local talent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 195 Every two hours we will play a new, emerging, local Owen Sound musician. The Pearl listeners will feel like they are part of something very special, and they will be. The Pearl will encourage listener participation at every level. The Pearl listeners will be encouraging local musicians to be the best they can be.
LISTNUM 1 \l 196 The Bull, even though it is not an Owen Sound central station has achieved great success in Owen Sound. Sales were good right out of the gate. BBM numbers, they have been tremendous.
LISTNUM 1 \l 197 CIBU, The Bull out of Wingham, is the most listened to radio service in Owen Sound central for both key advertising demographics, adults 25 to 54 and adults 18 to 49, as well as all male demos under the age of 54.
LISTNUM 1 \l 198 It is clear that the incumbent radio stations in Owen Sound are not in particular serving the rock listener age 18 to 54. These listeners are tuning to CIBU for the music with no local information and they are finding alternative choices to radio, such as the radio, internet iPods and even satellite.
LISTNUM 1 \l 199 A new rock radio service would bring those lost radio listeners back to a local service. If an out of Owen Sound central radio station like The Bull can create such an impact, imagine what an Owen Sound originating rock station will do. Rock radio is one of the most exciting formats in all of broadcasting. A hybrid meshing of classic rock and modern rock has made the format a comfortable choice for rock fans of both eras. The benefit to the local music scene would increase tenfold with the approval of our application. We will adopt Owen Sound's impressive musical community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1100 Local music will be programmed throughout the regular broadcast day every other hour and also during a special highlight program we call "Live from Owen Sound" which will feature local musicians performing live or out on location.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1101 It is my experience that a community falls in love with a radio station that is proud of its local talent and has no fear of showcasing that talent as we already do at Coast FM in Kincardine.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1102 Canadian music in general will be of high priority. There are so many exciting emerging Canadian artists that need increased exposure, which is why our station when it comes to modern rock will place greater emphasis on Canadian as opposed to international artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1103 By providing fresh Canadian music and local musicians getting their first exposure on the radio, we will deliver promotions that revolve around cultivating the local music scene. The Pearl will be a breath of fresh air in Owen Sound. The Pearl will feature a fat music universe that the area has never been exposed to. We will go deeper on albums; spin a wealth of local recordings. The audience wants and needs diversity which means not only going deeper with popular artists but expanding the number of acts, actual acts in the music universe.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1104 When I was with Blackburn Radio Owen Sound was a focal point when we built The Bull. And with that experience as a rock radio programmer and Owen Sound and area concert promoter and my upbringing in the Owen Sound area, I have a wealth of research information and street experience.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1105 MS COOPER: Our experience as a small market radio operator gives us an edge in the delivery of news and information. Throughout our collective years of experience it has shown us that most important component of radio programming is the relevant local information we give to our listeners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1106 The Pearl would provide 64 local newscasts weekly along with 64 updates on cultural, charitable and recreational activities and events. We will also offer traffic, weather, marine weather, business and regional fire advisories for a total of six and a half hours of local spoken word programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1107 The Pearl will service its listeners and will be on local first, covering topics of local and regional interests. The information packages will not only service the city of Owen Sound but also the Grey Bruce region and smaller catchment communities such as Port Elgin, Meaford and Chatsworth.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1108 We are also committed to providing the Cape Crocker and Saugeen First Nations communities with relevant news and entertainment programming, produced specifically for our aboriginal listeners. The Pearl will share synergies with Haliburton Broadcasting Group, already a leader in aboriginal affairs programming and small market news content.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1109 The Pearl would air an aboriginal news and current affairs program called "Bomseda" weekly in prime time. An aboriginal news reporter would regularly report and highlight issues of interest to the First Nations communities in the Grey Bruce region and throughout our regularly scheduled news packages Monday through Sunday.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1110 The Owen Sound market needs a new and a fresh editorial voice. With just one local radio operator serving news and information to the community, the area needs a distinct and fresh approach to delivering the local news. Because of our connection to the existing Haliburton Broadcasting Group, Moose Radio Network, we will share information and synergies reflected through central and northern Ontario.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1111 Two news reporters and a community stringer will be hired to deliver local news content from the outlying areas to our news room, a news room staffed by residents of Grey Bruce region. Those staff members will live, work and play in the community and will have the dedication to our listeners to deliver news that matters to them and is about them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1112 Owen Sound is home to a thriving sports community. The Owen Sound Attack of the OHL and its supporting Junior "B" franchise, the Owen Sound Greys, will be highlighted in an expanded sports feature reported weekly.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1113 Lacrosse is also huge in Owen Sound and both the Owen Sound Woodsmen and Own Sound Rams would benefit from the on air support of The Pearl.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1114 Owen Sound also has a strong and vibrant cultural community. In 2004 Owen Sound was named the cultural capital of Canada and, according to Statistics Canada, Owen Sound enjoys a higher than average cultural employment. Those employers include the Roxy Theatre, the Summerfolk Music and Crafts Festival, the Tom Thomson Memorial Art Gallery, the Billy Bishop Museum and the Owen Sound Marine and Rail Museum, all of which would be highlighted in a weekly cultural program designed to inspire interest in the rich cultural fabric of Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1115 The flourishing business community will also have a voice on The Pearl. We propose a weekly segment dedicated to the Chamber of Commerce as well as the downtown improvement area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1116 The Pearl will also provide a public service to many of Owen Sound's community groups and organizations. We believe strongly in providing airtime to organizations that are dedicated to improving the lives and circumstances of our listeners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1117 In Owen Sound service clubs such as the Kiwanis Club, the Owen Sound family YMCA and Big Sisters of North Grey and Owen Sound would be invited into the station to update our listeners on their activities and their events. Other organizations such as the Women's House of Bruce and Grey, Keystone Child, Youth and Family Services and the South Grey Bruce Literacy Council would be given access to our community calendar segments and regular interview opportunities on The Pearl.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1118 Finally, we believe in a healthy community and to ensure that we will continue to assist health services as we have in central and northern Ontario. The Grey Bruce Regional Health Centre Foundation can be assured the full support of The Pearl as they try to raise funds for minimally invasive surgery operating rooms, a mobile digital sea arm and new nurse call systems.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1119 To enhance our on air information content we will also create a web‑based service that will highlight local public organizations and community information, all by the click of your mouse. That website will also provide valuable information to visitors to the Owen Sound area through links with the Chamber, the DIA and other tourist destinations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1120 We have a proven track record of delivering information that matters to our listeners. Our news philosophy is simple: provide local and relevant information to all of our listeners in a responsible and diverse manner. That commitment to our listeners will not only keep them connected to their community but also to the rest of the province and the rest of the country.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1121 MR. BROUGH: We are committed to supporting local musicians with on air exposure, but also we will make a significant financial contribution to Canadian talent development. Over the term of its licence The Pearl will contribute $70,000 in direct contributions to Canadian talent development.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1122 100 percent of our CCD contribution will be directed to FACTOR.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1123 The Pearl will also make a substantial non‑cash CTD contribution. The Pearl will take an active role in working with the local music community, providing local programming through the regular broadcast day and a showcase of local and emerging talent with live from Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1124 The station will promote the local music scene not only through its spoken word program but also opening doors to live venue concert opportunities sponsored by The Pearl.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1125 Also, on a biannual basis we will record and produce a compilation CD of local talent that will showcase that talent and be sold to listeners with all proceeds benefiting local school music programs.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1126 The Pearl will also work with local high schools providing mentoring for their media programs. The Pearl will also showcase the same high school students with a one‑hour radio show weekly.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1127 MR. McCARTHY: Owen Sound is a city enjoying strong growth in both population and retail spending. The Pearl will have little impact to the current radio operator. We expect the bulk of our radio advertising income will come from new advertisers and repatriated from out‑of‑market spending.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1128 MS COOPER: Madam Chair and Commissioners, we believe we have presented a solid, logical and sensible business plan for a new FM radio service for the Owen Sound market. There is clearly a disparity in service to the market, a market only served by one radio operator with the top‑rated station coming from 85 kilometres away. The Pearl will correct this disparity as well as provide a new editorial and ownership voice to the area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1129 We believe the highlights of our application are a new editorial voice for Owen Sound, a new ownership voice for Owen Sound, a local voice for rock radio listeners currently not served by a local operator, $70,000 in CTD over the term of the licence, local news and information enhanced by the relationship with the existing Haliburton Broadcasting Group's newsrooms across the province, aboriginal programming to serve Cape Crocker and Saugeen Shores First Nations communities, 12 new jobs for local broadcasters, repatriation of advertising dollars to the local market; a realistic and solid business plan that will have little to no impact on the existing radio operator.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1130 The City of Owen Sound and, in particular, its rock radio listeners need this new service. We feel that we will bring to Owen Sound's radio listeners a strong, diverse news and information package that would offer listeners a choice of both local information and music content.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1131 We have the programming expertise. We have a vibrant new ownership group, local market knowledge along with the commitment and the resources for the long term.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1132 This concludes our presentation and we would appreciate the opportunity to answer any questions about our application the Commission has.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1133 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1134 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Cooper, Mr. McCarthy and your colleagues. Welcome to this hearing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1135 Just for the record, you have attached some appendices to your oral presentation, so could you just identify what those are and if this is new information?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1136 MS COOPER: That information is included in the actual application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1137 THE CHAIRPERSON: So it's not new information?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1138 MR. GROSSMAN: No, it's not. No.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1139 THE CHAIRPERSON: All right. I just wanted to get that on the record.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1140 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1141 I apologize for the buzz. It seems to be my microphone, a bad thing to happen at a radio hearing but we hope to get it resolved on the break. So just bear with us for this presentation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1142 Mr. Brough, I want to thank you for ‑‑ first of all, for providing a little bit more context on the choice of the name "The Pearl". And I was wondering is "Mother of All Rock" going to be your tagline?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1143 MR. BROUGH: Yes, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1144 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, because when I think of The Pearl I thought that sounds more like an easy listening station to me. But thanks for the context.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1145 THE CHAIRPERSON: So I do want to start with the choice of format because, as we know, once you choose the format that forms the basis for your business plan. And you are proposing a blend of current and classic rock, targeting a predominantly male audience. Now, according to your application age 25 to 54, but in your oral presentation this morning you seemed to focus more on a younger demo; that is, 18 to 54.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1146 So what is your core target audience for this radio station?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1147 MR. BROUGH: I will turn that over to Christopher.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1148 THE CHAIRPERSON: Sure.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1149 MR. GROSSMAN: I think the reference that Mike made where it is all demographics from 18‑54, but the primary focus of the application is adults 25‑54, which is the core audience of The Bull out of Wingham.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1150 THE CHAIRPERSON: What would you say is the median age therefore?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1151 MR. GROSSMAN: I think it would probably a 39‑40 year‑old male.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1152 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, thank you for that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1153 And obviously you looked at what currently exists in the market. You looked at where the out‑of‑market tuning is going. Did you take any other factors into consideration in coming up with this target demo?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1154 MR. COOPER: Madam Chair, we did. We did a survey of the marketplace, of existing radio listenership and their patterns. We looked at the out‑of‑market tuning as well and came to the conclusion that this was the underserved portion of the music genre that we needed to focus on.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1155 THE CHAIRPERSON: Did you include the survey in your application?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1156 MR. COOPER: The reference to a survey is looking at the BBM ratings historically over the last few years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1157 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. I believe I read in your application that you say that 24 per cent of out‑of‑market tuning goes to CIBU‑FM, is that correct?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1158 MR. GROSSMAN: I believe it is 30 per cent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1159 THE CHAIRPERSON: It is up to 30 per cent. How much of that ‑‑ you are shaking your head.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1160 MR. GROSSMAN: The ratings just came out last week and I think two things to note. Number one, was from my reference a record of 70.9 per cent of out‑of‑market tuning in Owen Sound right now and, The Bull, I think in the Rank Report that we gave you, which is the most updated rating, is 24 and change in terms of a share in the marketplace right now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1161 THE CHAIRPERSON: And how much of that out‑of‑market tuning do you hope to capture?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1162 MR. GROSSMAN: Mike?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1163 MR. BROUGH: We expect to capture 15 to 20 per cent of the market share with The Bull.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1164 THE CHAIRPERSON: And that would come all from the out‑of‑market ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1165 MR. BROUGH: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1166 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ currently from those people who are listening to the Wingham station, correct?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1167 MR. BROUGH: Most of those numbers would come as repatriated listeners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1168 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. In response to deficiencies you did provide a limited play list of artists. And I see that it is a little bit expanded in the appendices that you attached to your oral presentation. Have you done a comparison to determine the level of duplication with the Wingham station?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1169 MR. BROUGH: When you are working with a rock format there is going to be a lot of duplication. What sets our particular application apart from the others, and even The Bull itself, is how many spins we are going to be giving emerging artists, emerging Canadian artists, local Owen Sound artists. So there is going to be a huge diversity when it comes to that with our actual format compared to that of The Bull.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1170 THE CHAIRPERSON: The reason I am asking is I am trying to get a handle on what is going to be so attractive about your format and your musical selections that will prompt those people who are in the Owen Sound market who currently listen to Wingham to change the dial and tune into your radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1171 MR. COOPER: Madam Chair, just to add to that. I think Mike alluded to it, but the fact that it is local, it is not only local artists, it is local news, local traffic and it is the local offering that we can provide to the listeners in that area rather than tuning out‑of‑market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1172 THE CHAIRPERSON: So it is not just simply duplication of the music?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1173 MR. COOPER: No, not at all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1174 THE CHAIRPERSON: In other words, if they like the music on Wingham then they are going to like the music on The Bull, because you are going to copy their format or their choice of artists?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1175 MR. COOPER: No, we wouldn't be copying their format. We would have our own distinct sound, as we do in Kincardine, and we are still in competition with those radio stations as well. But the fact that we ‑‑ incremental programming would be about local and we think local sells.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1176 THE CHAIRPERSON: You project a ‑‑ is it a 12 per cent share in the first year, at launch, you project to capture 12 per cent share of tuning in the Owen Sound market, right?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1177 MR. COOPER: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1178 THE CHAIRPERSON: Do you have projections for years two to seven?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1179 MR. COOPER: Christopher.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1180 MR. GROSSMAN: Yes, I think the accumulation of the share, I think largely, we are thinking of repatriating about 85 to 90 per cent of The Bull's audience in the seventh year.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1181 THE CHAIRPERSON: Right, but what would that translate into in terms of share of the Owen Sound market?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1182 MR. GROSSMAN: Again, because you'd have to take into consideration the duplication that those two stations would enjoy. I think that would probably come in at about 22 to 23 per cent share in the market
LISTNUM 1 \l 1183 THE CHAIRPERSON: By year seven?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1184 MR. GROSSMAN: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1185 THE CHAIRPERSON: Could you provide us with a break down of your projected share ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1186 MR. GROSSMAN: Yes, we can.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1187 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ from years two to seven?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1188 MR. GROSSMAN: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1189 THE CHAIRPERSON: Terrific, thank you. Is there any other out‑of‑market tuning that you expect to repatriate? In other words, is the Owen Sound listening audience listening to anything else other than the Wingham station?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1190 MR. GROSSMAN: I think the male rock station has a disproportionately high share of tuning in that marketplace ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1191 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1192 MR. GROSSMAN: ‑‑ from Wingham.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1193 THE CHAIRPERSON: Now, in terms of the impact on the existing stations, your supplementary brief specifies that 15 per cent of your advertising revenues will come from existing stations. Some might say that is minimal impact. Do you see any duplication with the current AC station that is in the market?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1194 MR. GROSSMAN: I think, you know, just from my personal experience when we have, in Haliburton, have launched single stations up against multi‑station clusters what we found, normally, is that the market tends to, you know, the incumbents tend to be affected marginally if the format ‑‑ in this case, which is glaringly obvious, and then the market tends to grow. So I think that you have a lot of disenfranchised rock advertisers, there is a lot of repatriation advertiser opportunities for us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1195 And I just think of the experience that we had in North Bay where we launched the station, had strong ratings out of the age, and overachieved both the estimates that we made to the CRTC as well as what we think we can do in this market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1196 THE CHAIRPERSON: So it is safe to assume that your contention is that since the format currently doesn't exist from a local broadcaster the impact, therefore, on that existing broadcaster is ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1197 MR. GROSSMAN: Yes, I think it is contention and the experience that we have as well as Mike being the author of The Bull in Wingham.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1198 THE CHAIRPERSON: In terms of advertising revenues to come from new advertisers you estimate that 50 per cent increasing to 85 per cent by year seven of your advertising revenues will come from new advertisers. Some would say this is rather high. So what evidence do you have to sustain this dependency on new advertisers in this market?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1199 MR. GROSSMAN: I think the evidence would be the local newspapers in both those markets, both of them weekly. They are best described as the yellow pages in terms of thickness. There is a tremendous opportunity in that market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1200 And again, you know, drawing on our experience, when we go into these markets as a single station up against a cluster, we tend to find that they have had one sales rep come for 20 years or 30 years to specific customers. And again, we are not suggesting that Bayshore hasn't done a wonderful job doing radio in the market, which they have I am sure. But the reality is if you get more people in front of more advertisers in a local small market you will get more advertising.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1201 THE CHAIRPERSON: But should this not come to pass, should your seemingly reliance on new advertisers not come to pass, what effect will that have on your business plan overall?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1202 MR. GROSSMAN: Again, I would suggest that it is from our experience in doing it and being successful doing it. I don't know, necessarily, if that is the case when you have a single market with one sales force over a long period of time talking to advertisers about radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1203 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. I am going to move on now to the specifics of your proposal as they relate to local spoken word programming, live‑to‑air and voice tracking, programming staff levels, synergies and, finally, CCD. And we will take these one at a time, obviously.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1204 So spoken word. You are proposing 6.5 hours of spoken word of which 3.5 hours will be news. You also say that of that news portion 70 per cent would be dedicated to local news stories. So if my math is correct, of the 3.5 hours of news, 2 hours and 45 minutes are devoted to local news. Is that right? Have I got my grade 12 math right?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1205 MR. COOPER: Yes, you do, Madam, Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1206 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1207 And so the 1 hour and 30 minutes that is left of the news portion, will that be regional, national and international news stories?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1208 MR. COOPER: Madam Chair, I am going to direct this to Wendy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1209 THE CHAIRPERSON: Sure.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1210 MS GRAY: You are correct, that will be dedicated to regional, provincial, national, international news, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1211 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. So if we have taken care of the 3.5 hours of the total 6.5 hours of spoken word, what makes up the balance of three hours?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1212 MS GRAY: The rest of the spoken word programming will be community information through our community calendars. We have also factored in a health watch program because the demographic is aging, health issues are important, business issues as well, we have a business report. We also have a live announcer speak as well, factored into that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1213 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, I get that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1214 MS GRAY: So the balance of it, basically, is going to be local information.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1215 THE CHAIRPERSON: And what about surveillance material, where would that factor in? Is that in the 3 hours or the 3.5 hours, news, weather?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1216 MS GRAY: That would also factor into the other 3.5 hours.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1217 THE CHAIRPERSON: Part of the 3.5 or part of the 3?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1218 MS GRAY: Part of the 3 hours.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1219 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. You spoke about it in your oral presentation, but in your application as well you are proposing to give local high school students their own weekly one‑hour radio show? Is that in the 3.5 hours or the 3 hours?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1220 MR. COOPER: Madam Chair, we actually did that in Kincardine. Mike, could you speak to that please?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1221 MR. BROUGH: Sure. Yes, what a wonderful program and what a way to mentor. We took a media class. I did actually this in Huntsville as well, I was up there for 10 years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1222 And I approached the high school, because I think it is very important to get the youth involved. You get the youth, you get their parents, you get their aunts and uncles involve din your radio station as well, it is that commitment and passion.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1223 So we bring the kids in, I give them radio 101 and then I put them to work and they put together their own one‑hour show. I let them choose the music from the music universe and they can spin as many local artists as they want to and that is a full hour, once a week.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1224 THE CHAIRPERSON: And that is part of the 3 hours?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1225 MR. BROUGH: And that is part of the 3 hours. Not, that is not a part of ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1226 MS GRAY: That is not part of the ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1227 MR. BROUGH: ‑‑ that is addition to our 3 hours.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1228 MS GRAY: ‑‑ no, that is not part of the 3 hours. That is in addition to the ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1229 THE CHAIRPERSON: That is in addition?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1230 MS GRAY: Yes, that is in addition, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1231 MR. BROUGH: That is in addition.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1232 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Have you contacted local high school to gauge the interest in such a project?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1233 MR. BROUGH: I haven't as of yet, but I will tell you from experience, it will be instantaneous and they will be very happy to see me.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1234 THE CHAIRPERSON: Who is going to be responsible for ensuring ‑‑ I mean, high school kids, right, I mean, who is going to be responsible for ensuring that this program will meet broadcast standards?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1235 MR. BROUGH: That would be myself as the general manager of The Bull in Owen Sound, that would be my responsibility and I will take it on gladly.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1236 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. And just to be absolutely sure, all of the spoken word programming is averaged over the broadcast week?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1237 MS GRAY: That is correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1238 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, thank you. Will you be doing any voice tracking or automated programming?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1239 MS GRAY: We will have voice tracking. Our middays and evenings will be voice tracks.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1240 THE CHAIRPERSON: So how many hours live? How many hours voice tracked?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1241 MS GRAY: We will have 126 hours of local live programming and ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1242 MR. GROSSMAN: Not quite.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1243 MS GRAY: Not quite.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1244 MR. GROSSMAN: The originating programming will be 126 hours and, the block of Monday to Friday, 64 hours a week will be voice tracked.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1245 THE CHAIRPERSON: Sixty‑four?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1246 MR. GROSSMAN: Sixty‑four.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1247 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1248 Now, in terms of who will be doing all of this work. We do have your projected staffing and, therefore, salary levels. And there is the context of the fact that, if licensed, you will be competing in not only for listeners but also for staff. And this competition, I mean, you are going to be facing competition from a well‑heeled incumbent in the market and so I would just like to explore this area with you for a minute.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1249 I believe in your oral presentation, if I am not mistaken, you said you hired two people to staff the newsroom; is that correct?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1250 MS GRAY: That's two news reporters.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1251 THE CHAIRPERSON: Right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1252 MS GRAY: And then we will also have an announcer for the morning drive. So it's three ‑‑ the news director will also be the morning show co‑host and news reader ‑‑ an additional two reporters and a part‑time freelance stringer.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1253 THE CHAIRPERSON: And these three people essentially will be responsible for all of the spoken word content on the station?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1254 MS GRAY: They will be responsible for the news content and the surveillance information.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1255 THE CHAIRPERSON: Right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1256 MS GRAY: The announcers ‑‑ our morning show and our announcers will also cultivate local content throughout their shows as part of their show prep.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1257 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. What evidence do you have that the salary levels proposed are commensurate with this market?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1258 MR. GROSSMAN: They are just averages that ‑‑ my personal experience in being in the markets that we are in, for a market that size they are certainly measurable and attainable.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1259 THE CHAIRPERSON: And you are confident that you can attract the kind of talent that you are going to need to compete, like I said, not only with the incumbent but also with out‑of‑market tuning?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1260 MR. GROSSMAN: Yes, we are looking forward to it.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1261 THE CHAIRPERSON: And I am sure that talent is as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1262 Now in terms of synergies, you spoke about it in your application, specifically synergies with the Kincardine station, and in your oral presentation today you also talked about synergies with Haliburton.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1263 So you could you please elaborate on both of those? Where do you expect to see the synergies and do these synergies represent in the long run cost savings to you?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1264 MR. COOPER: Madam Chair, the synergies we gain from Haliburton are tremendous in that they ‑‑ not just the experience that Christopher and his group provide to us but the infrastructure that they provide to us, whether it is in accounting or in the technical area, we have gained a lot in that area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1265 By owning two stations, we obviously will be having some multitasking going on, allowing for us to gain some efficiencies through that and through personnel as well. I am not saying that we will be bringing new personnel into the market into the Owen Sound station but there will definitely be some synergies gained.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1266 THE CHAIRPERSON: What kind of multitasking?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1267 MS GRAY: Our multitasking, just by way of reference, our program director would also be the morning ‑‑ or the afternoon drive announcer. Our news director, as I mentioned, would be our morning show co‑host and news reader.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1268 We would have a new hire that would be a full‑time weekend/specialty programming person who would take care of The Pearl after hours as well as doing some voice tracking. A new hire promotion assistant as well as an announcer.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1269 So those are ‑‑ we have in total four multitasking positions planned.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1270 THE CHAIRPERSON: Right, but do any of these people also work for the Kincardine station or for Haliburton?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1271 MR. GROSSMAN: Yes, and they would share those responsibilities with Kincardine as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1272 THE CHAIRPERSON: And will there be any sharing of programming?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1273 MS GRAY: There will be one shared program with HBG, which would be our Aboriginal programming Bomseda and that would be shared but it would include also information from Saugeen Shores and Cape Crocker.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1274 THE CHAIRPERSON: So are there staff members who will be working exclusively for The Pearl, who won't have any other responsibilities, and who would they be?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1275 MR. GROSSMAN: Eight of the 12 people work exclusively for The Pearl.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1276 THE CHAIRPERSON: And what would those positions be?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1277 MS GRAY: They would be the two news reporters ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1278 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Then I misunderstood.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1279 MS GRAY: ‑‑ the news stringer ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1280 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, that is fine. I am sorry, I misunderstood then. I thought that the news reporter and the stringer would also be working at the Kincardine station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1281 MS GRAY: No.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1282 MR. COOPER: It is a busy day, Madam Chair.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1283 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1284 We will move on to CCD. In your response to deficiencies dated August 17, you commit to an over and above CCD contribution of $10,000 annually.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1285 Will you accept this as a condition of licence?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1286 MR. GROSSMAN: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1287 MR. COOPER: Yes, we will.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1288 THE CHAIRPERSON: I love it when people answer that so quickly. I dare someone to say no one day.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1289 THE CHAIRPERSON: Further to that, you commit that 100 percent of the over and above contribution will be directed to FACTOR, although the Commercial Radio Policy requires that only 20 percent of the over and above be earmarked for FACTOR.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1290 So give that this is a bit of a departure, will you accept a condition of licence that 100 percent of the over and above will be directed to FACTOR?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1291 MR. COOPER: Yes, we will, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1292 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1293 There is one further question on CCD. Please confirm your understanding that if licensed your station will have to contribute a basic annual CCD contribution imposed by regulation based on the station's total annual revenues and in the amounts as set out in paragraph 116 of the new Radio Policy, Public Notice CRTC‑2006‑158.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1294 MR. COOPER: Yes, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1295 THE CHAIRPERSON: The final line of questioning has to do with competition.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1296 You are not the only applicant proposing this format. As you know, Larche Communications is proposing a similar format or maybe you don't think it is similar at all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1297 So I would like you to comment on whether or not you see similarities with the Larche proposal, what those are or what those differences may be.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1298 MR. COOPER: Christopher.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1299 MR. GROSSMAN: Yes, there is no question that it is very similar. The genre, the music, the style, the ambiance of the presentation is probably the closest to us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1300 I can't comment on Paul's presentation but I can definitely comment on the fact that the benefit to the system here is clear, that we are going to strengthen and add a new ownership group to well‑known Canadian business people.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1301 Obviously, we have got the architect of this station that is the top‑rated station in the market coming here to redesign or look for a new canvass for this station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1302 And obviously, I think the question you have got to ask yourself is ‑‑ you know, we are in it for the long haul. These guys have the resources, the expertise, the connections to add a new vibrant ownership group into the broadcast system.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1303 We have seen with consolidation with the company I worked for for years, Standard, CHUM, OK Group, the reality is they have to be replaced and I am excited to be working with these guys. They are committed, crazy and resourceful.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1304 I think that if you can see a way around this, the CCD benefits and the fact that this presentation, I believe, is strong, these guys are going to add a tremendous ownership to the radio broadcast system. I really believe that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1305 THE CHAIRPERSON: I think you are anticipating the final question, which is always ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1306 MR. GROSSMAN: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1307 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ this is your two minutes but that is good rehearsal.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1308 THE CHAIRPERSON: How many new commercial radio stations do you think the Owen Sound market can sustain?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1309 MR. COOPER: Well, Madam Chair, deep down I would say one and that is us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1310 But having said that, when I look at what we have been reading, the pent‑up demand and we think the growth in the advertising dollar that it probably could take two.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1311 THE CHAIRPERSON: And if we were to license more than one, as you are suggesting, you obviously, based on what Mr. Grossman just said, would not want us to license both you and Larche Communications? That is the one that would have the most impact on your business plan, obviously.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1312 MR. COOPER: Right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1313 THE CHAIRPERSON: Of the other two, is there one that would have the least impact on your business plan?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1314 MR. COOPER: Probably the easy rock, easy listening, the Evanov.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1315 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Thank you, those are my questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1316 My colleagues?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1317 Commissioner del Val.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1318 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Thank you, panel.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1319 I just wanted to ask you about the ‑‑ in your opening statement you referred to the Cape Crocker First Nations communities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1320 I am wondering whether you have any specific initiatives around that community. For example, in the Blackburn application they referred to funding the traditional powwow and I am wondering whether you had something like that in mind.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1321 MR. COOPER: I don't think we do but I will turn it over to Wendy. We do have some specific programming related to that community, I believe.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1322 MS GRAY: Haliburton Broadcasting Group has an Aboriginal reporter who is focused solely on maintaining contact and building contacts with the Aboriginal First Nations throughout the province.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1323 So we are dedicating two hours a week to that program and she has already had contact with the two particular First Nations. So we will share that programming and her expertise in the First Nations communities with The Pearl in Owen Sound. She would obviously focus on the Aboriginal communities that we have in our group.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1324 That being said, she is also very, very vocal and very, very active in the First Nations communities. So she would be spending some time there and then bringing back to the ownership group suggestions about what we could do as a radio company to help and to assist.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1325 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Thank you. And for the support that your station is going to give this First Nations community, particularly in reference to Cape Crocker, do you consider that as part of your CCD initiatives or it is apart from it?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1326 MS GRAY: I consider that apart from our CCD benefits. That is something that we would do partially as a public service and partially as a service to our Aboriginal listeners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1327 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1328 Thank you, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1329 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Menzies.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1330 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1331 I just want to confirm for a moment that your research on the market was entirely based on BBM and your own knowledge and experience of the industry or was there anything else that I was missing?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1332 MR. GROSSMAN: No, it is based on BBM, which I think arguably would be the most accurate measurement of audience tuning in the market of Owen Sound, versus research, either demand or speculative research that would suggest that they think it might be successful. We know that the station historically over the last couple of years has that audience in the market, as recently as the last 30 days.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1333 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: And in terms of your advertising base, you speak about repatriating listeners. Would you be repatriating advertisers locally or would you be selling in a market much bigger than Owen Sound as far as local sales as opposed to national sales?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1334 MR. GROSSMAN: A combination of both of those.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1335 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: A combination of both?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1336 MR. GROSSMAN: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1337 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Where do you see the biggest opportunity for growth because you have indicated you probably won't have ‑‑ although I expect you to like to have a bigger impact on the local ‑‑ you want to have some kind of impact on the local market but you have indicated you wouldn't have a huge economic impact on the local market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1338 So can you just expand for me a little bit on your advertising base?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1339 MR. GROSSMAN: I think that largely, again through our experience in launching single stations up against multi single owner clusters we have found that a lot of new advertising comes into play, a lot of disenfranchised advertisers that moved out of the radio business and looked for alternative forms to advertise.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1340 And finally, obviously when you have more people in the street making calls you are going to get new advertisers that don't ever advertise radio as part of the growth of the station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1341 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: So those might come from existing print advertisers?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1342 MR. GROSSMAN: Yes, which would be the number one focus of our new sales.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1343 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay, thanks.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1344 In terms of your news operation, I am curious to know a little bit more. With two reporters and a stringer, can you give me some idea of what your beat structure might be, or your focus?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1345 Is it cops and courts? Are they creating original stuff?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1346 Because, if there are just two of them, it is a big area to cover; right?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1347 MS COOPER: I just happen to have an example of what a newscast would be like ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1348 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Excellent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1349 MS COOPER: ‑‑ this morning, had we been on the air as The Pearl.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1350 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: That was a fat pitch, wasn't it?
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1351 MS COOPER: As we said, 60 to 70 percent local content of our news. So this may be today's newscast.
"Owen Sound Council wants Grey County to restrict development in rural areas, saying that the county's growth management strategy doesn't conform to provincial policy. It says growth and development should be focused in settlement areas.
Hanover..."
‑‑ one of the surrounding communities:
"...plans a new arena complex to move forward. The town is looking for proposals from architects for the design of the building.
The Bruce Grey Catholic School Board is set to get an extra $200,000 from the province for administrative funding.
The Mill Creek Bridge in Saugeen Shores is considered unsafe. The mayor is asking the county to consider repair costs during their deliberations."
LISTNUM 1 \l 1352 As we mentioned in our proposal and presentation, the Owen Sound Attack is the local OHL team. Of course, we would have coverage of their games.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1353 Unfortunately, they weren't too successful over the weekend, but we report that anyway.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1354 Then, of course, the balance of the newscast would be provincial, national and international. Of course, today in the news the two big stories are Conrad Black being sentenced and Pickton's verdict.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1355 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: What will be your sources of national news?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1356 To whom are you planning on subscribing?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1357 MS GRAY: We subscribe to Command Newswire.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1358 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: I just wanted to confirm, too, that your Aboriginal Affairs reporter is a shared resource.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1359 Is that right?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1360 MS GRAY: That is a shared resource, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1361 MS COOPER: I would like to add one thing about the news, if I could.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1362 One thing that we know, particularly from being in Kincardine ‑‑ we have truly been embraced by the community, and I love how Mike ‑‑ one of the catch phrases that he has for CIYN is that we are like a comfortable sweater. You put us on and you leave us on all day.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1363 Honestly, where news is concerned, people want to know what is going on in their own backyard. They need to know what is going on in their own backyard, and you can be assured that The Pearl will provide that information to the community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1364 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1365 In terms of your newscasts, are they shaped in any way, in terms of ‑‑ I understand that news is news, but what you cover and what you don't cover would apply to the sort of audience you are trying to appeal to, and if I got it correctly, your median target is a 39 to 40‑year‑old male.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1366 Is that right?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1367 MR. COOPER: In music listening, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1368 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: In music listening.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1369 MR. COOPER: I believe, in news, it would be broader than that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1370 Wendy?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1371 MS GRAY: Obviously, as you said, news is news, and we can't ignore what is going on around the world and in our own backyard.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1372 But, as far as some of our less local news stories, what we would focus on would be health matters for that particular demographic, and business matters for that particular demographic, as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1373 So we would work those sorts of stories in and around our newscasts, with as much local content as we could. If there was a major health story, we would go to a local physician and get his take on it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1374 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: You identified your presence as being a new editorial voice. How would you want people to describe your editorial voice in the marketplace?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1375 MR. COOPER: Fresh and new, and someone that may take a different look at the community and what is going on in the community than what they have been served over the last 30 years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1376 MS COOPER: If I could respond to that, as well; being in news myself, I know that they send all of us reporters. I meet them all the time. We go to cover the same event.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1377 There are never two stories written exactly the same. It all depends on your reporter that you have at the scene.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1378 So, of course, our newscasts would be totally different from Bayshore's newscast, just because it would be someone else telling that story.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1379 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1380 THE CHAIRPERSON: Legal counsel?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1381 MS SMITH: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1382 I have one question. I would like to confirm that you are prepared to file with the Commission the breakdown of your projected market tuning by the end of the day December 17th, which is next Monday.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1383 MR. COOPER: Not a problem.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1384 MS SMITH: Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1385 THE CHAIRPERSON: You now have your two minutes to wrap up your application and tell us why your proposal is the best one for Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1386 MR. COOPER: Madam Chair, radio needs new ownership. It needs vibrant and different points of view. It needs investment, and it needs people that want to be in radio, and Danny and I are two of those people.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1387 Owen Sound needs a new editorial voice, as we previously spoke of. A local voice for rock radio listeners currently is not being served by the local operator. We can deliver that demand.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1388 We are committed to CTD, to the levels we have already set, and others.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1389 The local news and information, as Lynda alluded to, and Wendy talked about, is from a different perspective than what they have been receiving for many, many years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1390 We are also committed to Aboriginal programming, and I think that serving the Cape Crocker and Saugeen Shores First Nations communities with the experience that Haliburton Radio Broadcasting Group brings us is a great benefit to those communities. They have people in the marketplace dealing with the current issues they have.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1391 We are providing 12 new jobs for local broadcasters, and we think that is exciting for the community, as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1392 We are repatriating advertising dollars to the local market. We did this with Kincardine, and we can do it again with Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1393 We think we have given you a realistic, solid business plan, which would have little or no impact on the existing radio operator.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1394 We are also surrounded by Bayshore, which has Goderich now, and they have Port Elgin and Owen Sound; Blackburn, that has Wingham, and other markets that are completely surrounding us. We need to create efficiencies and synergies and strengthen our radio group, so that someday we will be a multi‑cluster owner.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1395 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1396 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much for your participation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1397 We will now take a 15‑minute break, in the hopes of resolving this microphone issue. Thank you.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1035 / Suspension à 1035
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1050 / Reprise à 1050
LISTNUM 1 \l 1398 THE SECRETARY: We are ready to begin.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1399 We will now proceed with Item 2, which is an application by Blackburn Radio Inc. for a licence to operate an English‑language FM Commercial Radio Programming Undertaking in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1400 The new station would operate on Frequency 92.3, Channel 222B, with an average effective radiated power of 14,635 watts, maximum effective radiated power of 29,000 watts, antenna height of 195.1 metres.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1401 Appearing for the Applicant is Mr. Richard Costley White.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1402 Please introduce your colleagues. You will then have 20 minutes for your presentation.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
LISTNUM 1 \l 1403 MR. COSTLEY WHITE: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1404 Good morning, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, CRTC Staff, members of our industry, and all in attendance today.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1405 My name is Richard Costley White, owner, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Blackburn Radio Incorporated.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1406 Before we start our presentation‑in‑chief, I would like to present the colleagues who are with me here today.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1407 To my right is John Weese, the General Manager for the CKNX stations, who will quarterback the question period.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1408 John has been in media for 27 years, and with Blackburn since 1990.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1409 To his right is Gina Lorentz, the Program Director for 101.7 FM, The One, our Wingham‑based AC station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1410 Gina has over 20 years in radio, with a background in both news and programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1411 Before coming to us, Gina was the news director for 570 News in Kitchener.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1412 To Gina's right is Ray Baynton, the veteran of our team, who has been with our Wingham stations for the past 35 years. For 32 of those years he has been our News Director.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1413 To Ray's right is Andrew Campbell, our Agricultural Director and Farm Reporter.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1414 Andrew has been with us for three years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1415 We have operated an Agricultural Department for over 50 years to the extended Huron, Grey, Wellington and Bruce counties, probably one of the few stations in Canada to do so.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1416 Finally, beside Andrew is Joan Moore, Community Marketing Representative, from whom you will hear more later.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1417 In the second row, to your left, is Nancy Burton, Accounting and Administration Supervisor, who has 25 years with Blackburn.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1418 Next to her is Mark Kassof, who conducted the research that led us to our choice of format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1419 Next to him is Rob Enders, our Director of Engineering for midwestern Ontario, who can address any technical issues that you may have.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1420 Rob has 20 years in the broadcasting industry, and came to us nine years ago from Q107 in Toronto.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1421 Beside him is Jason Ploegman. Jason's background is in the Computer Science field. He has been with Blackburn since 2005.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1422 In the spring of 2007, Jason moved into his current role, responsible for the development of new emerging technologies for Blackburn as they relate to broadcasting.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1423 In particular, he has been involved in our website connection to new and emerging artists in Windsor, and in our proposed website for The Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1424 In our folder we have provided a copy of our remarks, the seating plan of our panel, and a number of documents to which we will be referring during our presentation and during the question period.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1425 It is with great hope that we appear before you this week with two applications. Today's presentation is for a new FM radio station, to bring our brand of community‑oriented service to Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1426 Later this week you will hear our application for a new FM service in Windsor.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1427 I would like to tell you a bit about our company to give you an idea of who we are.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1428 As a fifth generation Blackburn, I am proud of my family's heritage in Canadian media, beginning with the London Free Press, here in London, in 1852, and in radio in 1922.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1429 Our radio operations grew up within a well‑established newspaper publishing company, and news and local reflection is, quite simply, our culture.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1430 Blackburn's philosophy and operating realities rest upon and reflect three basic principles: service to the community; editorial independence and program quality; and autonomous, locally‑based station management.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1431 We believe that these principles align good business practice with fundamental public policy expectations. They also reflect the ethics traditionally practised by the Blackburn family in the operation of media.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1432 Today that commitment is upheld in our small group of stations in southwestern and midwestern Ontario, and I am personally firmly committed to continuing and building on this successful operating philosophy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1433 Consumers have many choices, but radio's most relevant function continues to matter: to provide information to the community in which it broadcasts. That is why Blackburn Radio has placed such a strong emphasis on local news in our application. In a world of satellite and internet radio, local radio's advantage is that it is there every day and can be mobilized quickly in a crisis. That is why our stations have large newsrooms, with more staff than in most radio stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1434 In two cases we have dedicated agricultural reporters.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1435 Later, Joan Moore will talk to you about some of what we do beyond news in Wingham, and the approach we want to bring to Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1436 On the strength of this philosophy, Blackburn Radio has forged a reputation of trusted service and quality broadcasting.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1437 Our proposed investment in news and information, Canadian Content Development, local programming and capital investment underscores our sincere desire to establish a Blackburn‑brand radio service for the Owen Sound market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1438 And now to present our specific sounds for the Owen Sound market, I am pleased to introduce John Weese.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1439 MR. WEESE: Thank you, Richard.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1440 Good morning, Madam Chair, Commissioners and CRTC Staff.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1441 CKNX Radio has been providing service to midwestern Ontario for 81 years from our facilities in Wingham, starting with our AM station, and then adding an FM station in 1977, and another in 2005.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1442 Wingham is a small town of approximately 3,200 people, and it is about dead centre of our broadcasting region.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1443 Our Wingham station's role in the lives of citizens within midwestern Ontario, who form dozens of communities that comprise our service area, is critical.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1444 CKNX Radio has a long and proud legacy of comprehensive and dedicated service. It is in our DNA. Today, CKNX Radio provides this kind of coverage with eight full‑time reporters, as well as seven correspondents.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1445 We employ community marketing experts in addition to a full complement of traditional radio station staff. And you will find similar levels and roles in the Blackburn stations in Leamington, Sarnia and Chatham.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1446 Owen Sound is a market that we believe is ready for a new radio service, a new local choice in musical format, news and information, and a competitor for local advertising.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1447 We have provided you maps from BBM showing the Owen Sound BBM Central, and we have shown the contours that our proposed station imposed as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1448 We estimate that the market will serve just a little over 100,000 residents.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1449 The market of Belleville, Ontario has a similar population, and it is served by five commercial stations and two ownership groups. In Owen Sound there are three stations, with a single ownership group. If we look at the most important predicator of radio revenues, retail sales, they skew 73 percent higher than the national average in the census agglomeration of Owen Sound, and 55 percent higher in the city, according to Financial Post Markets.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1450 Yet, Owen Sound only has three radio formats locally: a news/talk AM station that plays oldies, a hot AC FM, and a country FM. No wonder there is significant out‑of‑town tuning, or out‑of‑market tuning. According to the most recent BBM ratings, released last Monday, out‑of‑market stations receive 56.3 percent of hours tuned by persons 12‑plus.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1451 We knew that the market could support a new station, and our experience in building successful community‑based radio told us that some kind of rock‑based format would be the right choice. However, we have learned over the years to verify the actual needs of the market with research, so we commissioned Mark Kassof to conduct research on the market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1452 Mark.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1453 MR. KASSOF: Thanks, John.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1454 Good morning, Commissioners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1455 We completed 300 telephone interviews with 18 to 64‑year‑old radio listeners drawn throughout the coverage area. First we studied listening behaviour. Then we probed listeners' interests in nine different music formats, and whether they could identify a present station as delivering that format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1456 A key statistic is what I call "positive interest", the percent who rate a format 4 or 5 on a scale, where 1 means they would never listen to that format and 5 means they would listen to it all the time they listen to radio. In Owen Sound we found the greatest positive interest in various forms of rock music: classic rock, mainstream rock, and classic hits.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1457 But the crucial calculation is what I call the "percent of format void". This is the percentage of the entire audience that both has a positive interest in a format and cannot associate any station with the format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1458 The percentage of format void analysis revealed the biggest voids to be older rock‑based music, sixties and seventies oldies at 13 percent, and classic hits at 12 percent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1459 This led me to recommend a broad‑based classics format, mainly seventies and eighties, but including some mid to late‑sixties gold.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1460 Here to explain how the format will be put into practice is Gina Lorentz.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1461 MS LORENTZ: Thanks, Mark.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1462 Good morning, Commissioners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1463 We took the format conclusion that Mark provided us and started building an exciting station that we have christened "The Sound", 92.3 FM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1464 We believe The Sound will be an illuminating source of tremendous entertainment, a trusted voice for news and information, and a generous and involved community citizen and partner.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1465 The Sound will provide a rock‑based classic hits format, uptempo, bright, instantly recognizable, and the very best classic hits from the seventies, eighties and early nineties, with a bit of spice from the sixties and today.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1466 The core of this format will be rock hits from artists like Neil Young, Tom Cochrane and Red Rider, BTO, Bryan Adams, Mellenkamp, Springsteen and Elton John.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1467 We will not play the more middle‑of‑the‑road songs from these artists, nor the hardest rock. Therefore, the sound will reach a broad audience of men and women age 35 to 54, with slightly more men than women.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1468 We will keep the station engaging to our listeners with a range of special programming: lunchtime features that will put members of the community from the hockey team, the Owen Sound Attack, to the mayor, to listeners with great ideas to be the music director for an hour.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1469 "The Sound Survivor" will be a feature that will pit two classic hit songs against each other, with the audience voting who moves on to the next week.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1470 "I Can't Believe I Heard the Whole Thing" will provide a whole side of a classic rock album.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1471 "The Weekend House Party", on Friday and Saturday nights, will provide party music from a variety of classic hit genres.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1472 This kind of format usually does not play a lot of contemporary music. However, we recognize the importance the Commission has given to supporting emerging artists, and we have developed a number of responses to play our part.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1473 We have committed to 40 percent Canadian content, both during the broadcast week and from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. No other applicant for this market has done so.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1474 We will do this by playing compatible contemporary rock music, as well as the great Canadian artists from the past that I mentioned earlier.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1475 We propose a regular feature entitled "Sound Sessions". This one‑hour weekly program will focus on new and emerging artists, with a special effort to promote local and regional artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1476 As we do in Windsor, we will have an "Inde Artist" section on our website that will expose and promote local and regional emerging artists. Jason Ploegman has spearheaded this initiative, and will be pleased to explain it further during the question period, if you wish.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1477 We have budgeted $3.9 million over the course of the seven‑year term of licence for programming expenses. That is almost twice the amount of the next closest applicant.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1478 This is primarily for two reasons. We will hire more people, particularly in news, and The Sound will recruit and retain seasoned announcers, men and women who can best connect with our target audience.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1479 Here to tell you about our plans for news is Ray Baynton.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1480 MR. BAYNTON: Thank you, Gina, and good morning, Commissioners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1481 The Sound will offer full service, comprehensive news coverage of the Owen Sound area with four fulltime news reporters including an onsite veteran news director and also four field correspondents that includes a dedicated First Nations reporter.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1482 Given the wide range of territory we serve from our Wingham stations with no real urban core but we still need to be the local station to many communities, we developed the field correspondent idea to ensure that we have knowledgeable local reporters to cover their communities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1483 While we won't have the same territorial challenge in the Owen Sound area, we believe that having correspondents in Meaford, Thornbury, Saugeen Shores and in Wiarton to cover the South Bruce Peninsula will provide the information that our listeners need.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1484 For fulltime news people it means that we can provide solid news coverage throughout the week and on weekends. It also means that our reporters can develop beats covering areas such as health and environment, arts and culture and others.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1485 Our spoken word commitment exceeds 13 hours weekly. Of that eight hours and 18 minutes will be dedicated to news reports and that includes agricultural reporting.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1486 Our connection to the community will go well beyond our news involvement. Speaking in more detail on that here is Joan Moore.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1487 MS MOORE: Thank you, Ray, and good morning, Commissioners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1488 I am a community marketing representative for Blackburn's Wingham base stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1489 Community marketing exists to super serve not‑for‑profit organizations and is a great way of building awareness to your organization and event. We offer this stakeholder group modest affordable and effective marketing plans that include a premium advertising schedule, on air promotion of their events, live and recorded interviews and a web‑based platform that can be accessed by the public as well as our announcers. In addition, we can provide MCs and personalities that will perform live reports from your event.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1490 I was hired in 2004 as the first dedicated marketing representative for this new initiative in the Wingham's stations. We now dedicate two community marketing representatives who have been trained to specifically specialize in serving the needs of our not‑for‑profit groups. This has proven to be very effective for non‑for‑profit organizations of all dimensions and purpose.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1491 Our clients include county health units, the United Way and their umbrella agencies, the Canadian Cancer Society, agricultural affairs, fundraising concerts and a range of other like organizations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1492 We measure our success on the success of the event. A few examples would be the Canadian Cancer Society's annual Relay for Life. Not only do we help promote and sponsor the relays in several communities in our area, we also volunteer our hours and provide a team in five of the overnight events. In 2007 we helped raise well over half a million dollars for cancer research.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1493 We also were instrumental in the phenomenal success of the Town of Minto Canadian Redneck Games, which is an annual festival that began in 2006. We assisted with their marketing plan, provided MCs and personalities. They were rated the number one festival in Ontario for July 2006 by CBC Radio. In addition, they won two festival and events Ontario Achievement Awards for the best new festival and the best community involvement.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1494 Probably our largest success in this area is our annual Healthcare Heroes Radiothon for the area's hospitals. The folks in the audience in the black t‑shirts are here to show their support for us. They represent the 14 hospitals in our area that have benefited from the millions of dollars we have helped raise for them. This year we raised $900,000 in a single day, bringing us to a total of $3.5 million in five years, a record we believe is unmatched by any other Canadian radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1495 The Sound will bring the same attention to the community in Owen Sound, including community marketing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1496 We will also reach out to the First Nations communities and extended market at Cape Croker and Saugeen. We will do this in a number of ways both on air and off the microphone.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1497 We will hire a dedicated correspondent to report on the events in the aboriginal community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1498 A Sunday evening program "Sound Circles" will focus on the music and achievements of the aboriginal community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1499 We will provide support to the Cape Croker Annual Traditional Pow Wow with $5,000 for music and dance.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1500 And we will hire an aboriginal broadcasting student as a station intern.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1501 Now to speak to Canadian content development initiatives, and to sum up, here is John Weese.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1502 MR. WEESE: Thanks, Joan.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1503 In addition to our annual contributions to FACTOR which will amount to a little over $100,000, $102,000 over the licence term, we propose the four local initiatives.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1504 Stars of the Sound will fund summer concerts by local and regional artists in the downtown area of Owen Sound at venues at a cost of $17,400 each year. We will record the concerts and make them available to the artists to act as promotional tools as well as providing space on our website for them to promote their activities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1505 The Georgian Bay Folk Society will receive $20,000 annually for a new stage and that will feature local artists, and for a series of musician workshops.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1506 The Kiwanis will receive $12,000 annually for scholarship awards tied to the Kiwanis Festival and to host notable Canadian artists. And as Joan has already noted, our annual commitment to the Cape Croker Pow Wow and the funding of artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1507 Blackburn and CKNX Radio have a proud history of service to a wide range of communities in mid‑western Ontario. We have always believed that the key to our business success is community service and our attention to strong news departments, community development and to research has meant that we have done well by doing good.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1508 We believe that we have provided you with an application that best meets the evaluation criteria. Owen Sound can easily absorb a new rock‑based classic hits station. We will provide viable competition to the only local broadcaster which has three stations in Owen Sound and a number of regional stations. At the same time, The Sound will take most of its audience out of the out‑of‑market stations, particularly our Wingham‑based rock station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1509 Blackburn is the only applicant in this market who conducted format research that tested a wide variety of formats in order to seek out the largest unfulfilled void. The Sound will serve a large group of men and women, age 35 to 54, who currently tune elsewhere for their favourite music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1510 We propose the strongest commitments to our local reflection of any applicant for Owen Sound. Our projected expenditures on programming are almost double the next nearest applicant at $3.9 million over seven years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1511 We propose a news department of four fulltime staff, supplemented by four regional correspondents and will broadcast over eight hours of news each week and 13 hours of spoken word.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1512 We will program 40 percent of Canadian content during the broadcast week and between 6:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. This will be further supported by a number of special programs focusing on local and regional artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1513 We will donate almost a half a million dollars over the term of the licence to Canadian content development.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1514 We have a good team of dedicated professionals with experience in providing quality radio and if you grant this licence to Blackburn you will not be disappointed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1515 We would like to leave you with this sample of The Sound.
‑‑‑ Musical interlude / Intermède musical
LISTNUM 1 \l 1516 MR. WEESE: Thank you. And thank you for your attention this morning. We would welcome your questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1517 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Weese and Mr. Costley White, and your colleagues.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1518 I will ask Commissioner del Val to begin the questioning.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1519 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Thank you, panel.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1520 As I read your application I think one of the key elements of your particular application is the repatriation from your own station, The Bull. So I would just like to get a little bit of background information about that before we go into the specifics of the application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1521 Now, you heard this morning from The Pearl that the latest figures shows a 24 percent, 12‑plus tuning. I am not sure if I got that correct. Can you comment on that, please?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1522 MR. WEESE: Yes, I think where they may have gotten their information as they were preparing prior to the most recent release ‑‑ the most recent release of BBM which all audience 12‑plus indicates that The Bull, the Wingham rock‑based station, took a share of 13.5 percent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1523 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Okay, 13.5 from the Owen Sound market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1524 MR. WEESE: That's correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1525 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Now, what about ‑‑ but currently The Bull does derive some revenue from the Owen Sound market?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1526 MR. WEESE: Most certainly.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1527 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Okay. And could you tell us what percentage of your revenues would be from the Owen Sound market?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1528 MR. WEESE: I think the Board should look at ‑‑ of our Wingham‑based radio stations it would represent ‑‑ what we take out of Owen Sound would represent around 10 percent of the total revenues of our Wingham‑based radio stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1529 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1530 So Mr. Kassof, I was quite interested in your research and, you know, basically I want to explore a bit more about the basis of the optimism that the repatriation will be from Bull rather than from Bayshore's three stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1531 So I was looking at your study and on the applicant's supplementary brief, page 21, and you are talking about the core or the P1 listeners to classic hits format listening to less radio than average.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1532 MR. KASSOF: That's correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1533 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Yes, and then from your deficiency response and all, I gather that ‑‑ is it from a lack of station association that there ‑‑ it simply isn't around, or is there something about the demographics of the group that you are targeting that that group listens to radio less?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1534 MR. KASSOF: Well, I think if we look at what they like, which is essentially older music, seventies, eighties, a touch of sixties, there is really no station available on the market, even The Bull that really delivers that mix of music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1535 You know, I strongly suspect based on the research that they think The Bull would be a little bit too hard rocking for them. I think that they would think that The Bull plays too much current, new cutting‑edge rock for them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1536 So really if they don't like country where are they going to go? So there is really no station that's really serving them. So hopefully we would see an increase in their time spent listening. But right now if there is no station that really hits your needs you are going to spend less time with radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1537 COMMISSIONER del VAL: So you are comfortable concluding that, given all of the factors, that is the key reason for them listening to radio less, that there is no station that really serves specifically their needs?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1538 MR. KASSOF: Yes, because if we look at just their demographic group, strictly as a demographic no matter what they are interested in, they are not listening to radio less than average. But these particular people who want this kind of radio station are.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1539 So yes, I think it's a fair assumption that they are really not getting what they want.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1540 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Now, and also you heard from The Pearl today in their opening statements and their questions with Madam Chair on what they ‑‑ their plans on being very local in order to cater to the Owen Sound market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1541 Now, what can you do that is more local than local ownership? Like how would you set yourself apart from, say, The Pearl's?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1542 MR. WEESE: Yes, I would like to take that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1543 There is a couple of ways when we talk about programming and specifically we can talk about our news content. I would like to ask news director Ray Baynton who could perhaps talk a little bit about the local nature of our intended news coverage.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1544 Ray?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1545 MR. BAYNTON: Thank you, John.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1546 The amount of local news that we are talking about is over eight hours and I think that you will find that significantly larger than what the competitors are offering. That's going to be largely focused on the area and that's because we are going to have four fulltime people there. We are going to have correspondents who are going to be out and covering the region, and we are going to have the airtime to be as comprehensive and detailed as we need to be for the market. And that's above and beyond additional surveillance material that will be outside of that as well as some of the community service initiatives that we are doing as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1547 COMMISSIONER del VAL: So do you think you could be more local than a local owner?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1548 MR. BAYNTON: I think you have to determine what you mean by a local owner because to me it's not a matter of ‑‑ if you will excuse this, Richard ‑‑ it's not a matter of who is wearing the suit in the front office. It's a matter of who is doing what on the air, and the people on the air will be local. They will be people who live in the market. They are going to be the people who play in the market and do everything else in the market. They know the market. So what they put on the air is what's going to be local.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1549 And all of our stations, all of our Blackburn operations are locally managed. So that's where the local is going to come from.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1550 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1551 Now, when I was looking at the stats for this market and I can see that Bayshore and Blackburn have been competing neck and neck for years and very successfully. And right now you are number two. So why is that not enough for you? Why do you actually want to be in the Owen Sound market and serving the market from an Owen Sound station?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1552 MR. WEESE: I would like to, in a second, have Mark Kassof ‑‑ might talk about ‑‑ I will ask him to speak about some people in that population that are not being served presently.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1553 We believe that we can bring an exciting new format that's not there now and that we can serve listeners and make the listening experience fuller for the market of Owen Sound. And our community‑based initiatives we believe will enrich the quality of life of people in Owen Sound, and we believe we are quite capable of doing that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1554 And to talk about the other served (1112‑5:40) needs I would like to ask Mark Kassof to maybe talk a little more on that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1555 MR. KASSOF: Sure. I mean we looked at this percent of format void which is essentially listeners who want something and aren't getting it, and the percent of format void for classic hits was 12 percent; for sixties, seventies, oldies was 13 percent. Those were the two highest of the nine formats we tested.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1556 So that's a significant number of listeners in this market that aren't getting what they want.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1557 MR. WEESE: Also, to add to that, Gina Lorentz has some information too that might be helpful.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1558 MS LORENTZ: When we looked at BBM out of market tuning in the target demo that we are proposing, 35 to 54, 30 percent of women are listening to stations outside of the Owen Sound market and over 60 percent of men are tuning out of market. So that's why we are proposing a broad‑based classic hits format that appeals to both men and women.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1559 COMMISSIONER del VAL: On your revenue projections they are quite optimistic. What is the basis of your optimism?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1560 MR. WEESE: Well, basically we took a look at ‑‑ first of all, we think we are pretty good operators. However, studying the market we discovered in our research from Financial Post markets, in addition to looking at Stats Canada information on retail sales for some of the areas that weren't included in the FP markets that retail sales are very, very healthy in that particular region and retail sales themselves are higher per capita in the city and in the immediate region than they are in other parts of the country.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1561 Our calculations indicate to us that there is an un‑mined revenue source, radio revenue source that exceeds $900,000 in the market. We believe that it would be foolish for us to believe that we are going to take all of that within the first one, two years of that. However, we do show rapid growth throughout the period of seven years and as the markets grow we certainly intend to grow as well, along with our inventory.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1562 COMMISSIONER del VAL: That just reminded me that in your supplementary brief you did ‑‑ oh, here ‑‑ that you are anticipating generating 80 percent of your total year to revenues from sources other than existing local stations. So where would the ‑‑ where do you see those sources?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1563 MR. WEESE: Well, certainly from the out‑of‑market radio stations and, unfortunately for us, but we would sort of chew off our arm a bit as far as our revenues from The Bull radio station because we would certainly take market share from them and revenue does follow that. So there are ‑‑ a good healthy part ‑‑ I believe we have listed 25 percent ‑‑ will come from out‑of‑market stations and that will be predominantly us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1564 We also listed new business as well. I believe we have that to the tune of 10 percent. And that new business is going to come we think from three different areas up in our area with the Bruce nuclear plant and Ontario Power Generation and wind farming is bringing on a new stream of advertising because they want to be good corporate citizens and partner up in that area. We believe that's a good ‑‑ great revenue source.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1565 Community marketing that Joan talked about earlier provides new revenue opportunities as well and also I think we have listed in there as expanding business. With a new radio station player you can understand that advertisers will be using the traditional stations they have always used but they want to reach the entire market, recognizing there is a new player with a new audience. And so they would want to reach the entire market. So they will expand their budgets as well, and that will represent a good percentage.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1566 COMMISSIONER del VAL: So have you actually pursued any of these new sources that you have referred to, to find out their level of commitment?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1567 MR. WEESE: Our experience today, and with our Wingham‑based stations those groups are certainly part of our market. And we are in constant negotiations talking with the energy groups to expand their budgets. We do get a bit of money from them but it is growing as those companies are growing along the coast as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1568 And community marketing does represent some modest dollars but good dollars for us as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1569 COMMISSIONER del VAL: And I take it ‑‑ is there a significant proportion of these new businesses in Owen Sound that are currently already advertising with you in your other markets?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1570 MR. WEESE: There will be some duplication of advertisers and we would like to think that we would be able to retain their ad dollars to some degree. But we do realize that the day that we put out our shingle for the new station that they are going to be converting a lot of those dollars over to the new station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1571 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1572 Now, I think your projection also ‑‑ now, Bayshore's CIXK currently has an 11 percent share. Now, what is your estimate of the tuning that you will take away from Bayshore, that station, and the other two of Bayshore's stations?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1573 MR. WEESE: Yes, in total of their three stations they have in the market we believe that we are only going to take five point shares from them, which is around 20 percent or so.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1574 The biggest hit that we are going to take is from the out‑of‑market rock station from Wingham and that's where we are going to get the majority of our shares. So we would really have minimal impact on the three stations that Bayshore has in that market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1575 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Yes, and I believe that Mr. Kassof has sort of explained in your research and why ‑‑ how you calculated the format you chose would have the smallest impact on the incumbents.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1576 MR. WEESE: Yes, and we would be most interested in sharing that. Would you like to hear from Mr. Kassof on that point?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1577 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Yes, please. Yes, please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1578 MR. WEESE: Mark?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1579 MR. KASSOF: In terms of the ratings projections and how we do that? Sure.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1580 Well, you know one of the crucial questions in one of these research projects is which station do you listen to most, which corresponds most closely with audience shares as a service such as BBM would reflect?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1581 So we ask that. We ask that right now, which station are you listening to most? And then, in terms of doing a projection, the key is to figure out which station are they going to listen to most after this new station launches.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1582 So what we do is we look at people, in this case, who had a positive interest in the kind of music this station will play, who weren't passionate about any of the other kinds of formats that we tested. So in other words, if they liked classic hits, but they were big country fans, we are not calling that person a potential P1 listener. That person is not going to say that they listen to this station most even though they may sample it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1583 So once we have identified respondents who will be new P1 listeners for this new station, we move them from whatever station they were at to the new station and then recalculate share. And, by doing, that we projected a 16 per cent share for the new station. And, again, most of that would be definitely be coming from The Bull.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1584 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1585 And going to your formats, what do you see would be the key differences between your format and the formats of the three incumbent stations?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1586 MR. WEESE: Okay, very good. Quite a bit of difference, actually. And I would like to ask Gina Lorentz if she wouldn't mind talking about some of the differences in the formats.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1587 MS LORENTZ: Thank you. The three existing formats owned by Bayshore right now in Owen Sound's central market, there is an FM country station which is night and day compared to the classic hits format that we are proposing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1588 FM Hot AC station, it is not a rock‑based format, its focus is based on current music and the best hits of the 1990s and this decade. Only similarity, there is a noon‑hour lunch program on Mix 106 which is a Hot AC that does a retro show, so there is some 1980s music during that hour.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1589 The AM station CFOS, it is primarily a news information sports station with some oldies. There are various talk shows through the week and on the weekends, some sports programming. And the music that is played is predominantly 1950s, 1960s and early 1970s and has a lighter touch than the classic hits rock‑based format that we are proposing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1590 Our classic hits would focus on 1970s, 1980s, some early 1990s harder edge. Additionally, our application would adhere to the non‑hit regulation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1591 COMMISSIONER del VAL: What about the difference between your format and those proposed by the other applicants?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1592 MR. WEESE: Gina.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1593 MS LORENTZ: Thank you, I can pick‑up on that as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1594 As has been discussed, there is currently no rock‑based format in Owen Sound. Our Blackburn station, The Bull, does get a decent share and there are two proposals before you for a mainstream classic rock hybrid application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1595 There are some commonalities between a classic hits and rock station. Shared artists could include; Aerosmith, Rolling Stones, Journey, Pink Floyd, Foreigner. There are also artists you would not hear on a rock format that would appear on a classic hits format; Phil Collins, Chicago, Hall & Oates, Pat Benetar, Rod Stewart and early Elton John.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1596 Also, songs on The Bull are on the other competing applicants' proposing rock formats that you would not hear on a classic hits station and that would include; Black Sabbath, Ozzy Osborne, Jimi Hendrix and no new rock like Foo Fighters, Velvet Revolver or White Stripes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1597 COMMISSIONER del VAL: And I think that you did touch on ‑‑ I am sorry, you had something to add?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1598 MR. WEESE: Oh, no. The only thing I was going to add as well too is, in addition to the musical formats that we would play, that our news content too is considerably higher and that would set us apart from the other applicants as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1599 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Just going back. I believe you had given a brief explanation of the difference between The Bull and the format of the new station. And The Bull is a little bit harder rock?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1600 MS LORENTZ: Yes, its play list would include the new artists that I mentioned; Foo Fighters, Lincoln Park.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1601 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Now, what is it that Blackburn plans to do differently or better with this Owen Sound station than it does already with The Bull and in order to attract the Owen Sound audience?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1602 MR. WEESE: Right. Well, for one thing, the format would be more broad‑based in nature and we would be able to satisfy the listening habits of more women than we would be able to accomplish with The Bull as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1603 We also believe that this format and part of the points that we would take from The Bull is that we would be able to better satisfy some of the male listeners as well in the overall audience by playing music this is more germane to their appetite as well as giving them a lot more local news and information.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1604 The Bull has cursory news coverage of Owen Sound and areas, it pertains to our area. This station here would dedicate 75 per cent of the focus on news and events happening within Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1605 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1606 I have a few questions on your CCD contribution. You have heard Madam Chair's, this morning, question Bayshore referring to the 2006‑158 public notice and paragraph 116 talking about the basic annual CCD contribution. Do you understand that? I can summarize that for you if you need.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1607 MR. WEESE: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1608 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Okay. So stations with total revenues in a previous broadcast year of less than $625,000 will make a fixed contribution of $500. And then stations having revenues between $625,000 and $1,250,000 will make a fixed contribution of $1,000. And stations with total revenues exceeding $1,250,000 in a previous year will contribute $1,000 plus 0.5 per cent of the portion of the previous year's total revenues that exceed $1,250,000.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1609 MR. WEESE: Right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1610 COMMISSIONER del VAL: You understand and accept that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1611 MR. WEESE: Yes, we do, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1612 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1613 MR. WEESE: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1614 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Now, on page 11 of your supplementary brief, in the second complete paragraph and the last sentence, you were referring to a transitionary condition of licence when you were talking about the 60 per cent of basic amount each year to FACTOR.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1615 I am just trying to pull that up on my screen. Do you see that? On page 11 of your ‑‑ it starts with, "Blackburn proposes a substantial contribution.."
LISTNUM 1 \l 1616 MR. WEESE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1617 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1618 MR. WEESE: Yes, I do see that, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1619 COMMISSIONER del VAL: And the last two sentences:
"..60 per cent of the basic amount each year will be contributed to FACTOR. We would accept a transitionary condition of licence." (As Read)
LISTNUM 1 \l 1620 I don't really understand what you mean by transitionary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1621 MR. WEESE: Well, to be perfectly honest, I don't have that answer for you right now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1622 Richard, do you have anything to add to that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1623 MR. COSTLEY WHITE: I think it just reflects the fact that the regulations are in sort of a transitionary mode from the previous set of regs to the current set.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1624 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Thank you for the clarification. But the bottom line is that you will accept that as a condition of licence?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1625 MR. COSTLEY WHITE: Yes, we will.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1626 MR. WEESE: Absolutely.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1627 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Now, on one of your CCD initiatives on the Cape Croker Traditional Pow Wow ‑‑ now I think you are probably aware that, with the commercial radio policy that we have just referred to, in 2006, the focus is for the support of development of Canadian musical and spoken‑word talent. And so initiatives such as visual arts and dance they don't qualify anymore.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1628 So I just want to find out more about this Cape Croker Traditional Pow Wow. What is it about, how do you think it does qualify and why don't we start there?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1629 MR. WEESE: Okay, sure. We had a couple of meetings with some people in Cape Croker to try to get their perspective of what their needs are when it comes to the Pow Wow. With that event, they import a lot of people from all over Canada to come to that event and it is becoming increasingly difficult for people to come because of associated costs.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1630 We believe that we can stay within the regulations on that by making sure that that money that we forward goes directly to pay the talent that will be performing and, specifically, those who will be singing as part of their performance. So it is more than dance and visual arts and so on.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1631 COMMISSIONER del VAL: What proportion of that festival is dance and what is music? Is it easy to separate?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1632 MR. WEESE: I have to be honest with you, I have never attended a pow wow. I don't know. My understanding of it is that the have a celebration of the culture, there is a lot of dance to it, but there is also some singing that is part of that event.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1633 COMMISSIONER del VAL: And would your play be to broadcast the singing and the spoken word portion or..?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1634 MR. WEESE: That is certainly a wonderful idea and one that we would most certainly entertain. They do have their own radio station in Cape Croker and we would want to make sure that we don't interfere with whatever their programming plans are.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1635 And just on that note with the Cape Croker radio station, we have toured their facility and we have talked to their coordinator and we believe ‑‑ we didn't put it in the application, because it doesn't fall under CCD ‑‑ but just as a side note, we are very eager to help them with their very humble broadcasting centre that they have and to lend expertise as well as equipment to what they are doing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1636 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Thank you. In the even that that portion of the initiative does not qualify as eligible CCD, what would be your proposal for that portion of the contribution?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1637 MR. WEESE: What we would do if that does not qualify? We would make sure that the Cape Croker Pow Wow people do receive the money anyway and that amount of money would be added in addition and would go to FACTOR.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1638 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Okay, great, thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1639 I don't have any questions on specifics of your programming. You have quite a detailed program on your spoken word and all. Now, there are no changes that you anticipate from the time you filed the application and today on your spoken word and your local programming plans, are there?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1640 MR. WEESE: No, there is no changes at all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1641 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Okay. I have now one last question for Mr. Enders. I took a look at the intervention from Bayshore and part of the intervention has to do with the technical aspects of Blackburn's application. And mainly, the portion, what you have applied for, will not be sufficient to cover the areas that you want to cover and, therefore, we would be looking immediately at another application for us for changes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1642 I was interested in Mr. Enders' response as to give us some assurance that the frequencies and the technical parameters that the applicant has put forward is sufficient to support their application as it stands.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1643 MR. ENDERS: Sure, I can answer that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1644 When we started the preparation for this application our consultants were asked to find the best channel for us to use, and Channel 222, 92.3 was the one chosen. We have, in our application, maximized that channel to its full capacity and that is what our business plan is built upon. So there is no intention to come back and ask for repeaters or other methods to expand the coverage.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1645 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Are there any other alternate frequencies that would be feasible for you?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1646 MR. ENDERS: Yes, they identified a second Channel 272, which is 102.3 MHz and it has a similar coverage, although it has more interference issues to deal with, so this is the primary channel to choose.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1647 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Thank you. I am sure Madam Chair will be asking you to give a last pitch. I will postpone the next question, but basically I would like you to address it at some point, why you, why you are the best for repatriation and, out of all these fabulous applicants, why you? So should we postpone that to..?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1648 MR. WEESE: Sure.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1649 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Okay, thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1650 Those are my questions, thank you, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1651 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Menzies.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1652 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1653 I just have some quick questions and then another one that is maybe a bit more complicated.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1654 In your newsroom the presentation said you have four people, but then it referred to one experienced news director, plus four. Is the news director included in those four?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1655 MR. BAYNTON: The news director is included in those four, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1656 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay. So there is a director and three reporters, one of whom is specializing on Aboriginal affairs?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1657 MR. BAYNTON: No.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1658 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: No?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1659 MR. BAYNTON: No, the Aboriginal reporter is one of our additional four correspondents.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1660 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1661 MR. BAYNTON: Okay? The four full‑time, including the news director, are the people who are actually working in the station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1662 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay. Are they going to cover shifts right through the week?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1663 MR. BAYNTON: Yes, through the week, through the weekend and ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1664 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: All seven days?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1665 MR. BAYNTON: ‑‑ they will also be doing reporting as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1666 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Is it a 24‑hour cycle or..?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1667 MR. BAYNTON: A 6A until 6P.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1668 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: 6A until 6P?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1669 MR. BAYNTON: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1670 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay, thanks.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1671 MR. BAYNTON: I should, possibly, just mention that there will be the opportunity for us to go live during the off hours as well. We have got two things planned for that. One of them is high school intern who would be in the station in the evenings who would be able to handle the incoming calls and deal with anything that is going on and then call in news staff, as required.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1672 The other is what we do in the Wingham stations, and that is we have an on‑call editor who has a pager, actually it is a Blackberry now, and he can access all the wire services and any phone calls that come into the newsroom and so on. So he can respond and get back in the news room and get back on the air live if anything happens after hours as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1673 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay. In terms of your research, a survey of 300 people, what is the margin of error on a survey of 300 people?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1674 MR. BAYNTON: Mark Kassof.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1675 MR. KASSOF: Just a second here, I have got the calculation standing by. The worst case margin of error on a sample of 300 for the total sample would be 5.66 per cent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1676 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: And what would it be on the breakouts?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1677 MR. KASSOF: Higher. I mean, it would depend on ‑‑ each breakout has its own cell size, so you would have to figure out each one individually.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1678 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: So plus or minus 9 if I break it out into gender, for instance?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1679 MR. KASSOF: 7.7.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1680 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: 7.7, thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1681 If this market were to be opened up, how many licences do you think it could handle?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1682 MR. WEESE: One comfortably, for sure, and one that would be very healthy and one that would be viable and one that would be able to live to a full service commitment. I would be concerned that if two were licensed that it would have impact on the existing broadcaster as well as the other new entity into the marketplace.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1683 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: So one?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1684 MR. MR WEESE: I am thinking one.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1685 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay. I am curious to know about your strategy regarding The Bull. What impact would this, yours or in that sense I guess others, but yours particularly, as you own it, have on The Bull? It appears like you are prepared to partially cannibalize your audience at The Bull, I guess the idea being if somebody is going to eat it, it might as well be you.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1686 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: But what kind of an impact would that have on your operation in Wingham? Because usually if market share falls revenue might fall, which means cost containment and I think we all know what that means.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1687 MR. MR WEESE: Sure.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1688 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: So can you just expand on your strategy regarding that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1689 MR. MR WEESE: I would be happy to. And you are absolutely right, we do cannibalize ourselves a bit on that. In fact, we have listed in our brief as to what we believe will be where our revenues will come, from out‑of‑market broadcasters at 25 per cent. So that is $234,000 and we believe a chunk of that is going to come right off The Bull.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1690 However, we understand two things, and that is that The Bull was not intended to be a radio station for Owen Sound. It was primarily intended to be a station for mid‑western Ontario.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1691 We soon discovered after testing and then putting it on the air that we did have a following in Owen Sound and that there was an appetite up there for people to participate with a radio station. And, being good businesspeople, we certainly, I don't know if explored is a good word, but we certainly satisfied the advertising demand up in that area and we are very happy with that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1692 But we do understand that our core market is mid‑western Ontario. And therefore, when we asked for power increases for South Huron we had that intent of being able to best satisfy our home market before we go gallivanting into other markets. And so we believe that is where our long‑term strength is going to be in our home market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1693 And, as you can see with the BBM, The Bull started off very strong year one, little loss year two, year three we are down to a 13.5 market share. And we would like to think and the people on our Bull team would like to think that they can bolster that number or hold onto that number. I think history is starting to prove that being out of market now does have a cost and that it is a depreciating asset as time goes on.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1694 So we want to put a station into that market that is going to stand and grow in market share and not decline.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1695 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Can you just maybe explain for me too the difference between your format decision and the earlier application which went straight after a rock format in terms ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1696 MR. MR WEESE: Sure, I would be happy to do that. In fact, I am fortunate to have a couple of people with me here today who could probably best answer that. I can either start with Mark or Gina.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1697 Mark, are you prepared?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1698 MR. KASSOF: Well, I hope so.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1699 MR. KASSOF: Basically, you know, what I looked at and shared with the radio station was what is the biggest unserved need in the market? And the biggest unserved need in the market was the format that we are discussing. You know, when we get down to mainstream rock it is considerably less. The format for mainstream rock is 7 per cent, so it is considerably less. So the biggest need in the market seemed to be a good way to go.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1700 Another thing I would like to share is that, you know, I think conventional wisdom is that the way to take share, to repatriate, is to put something on exactly the same as what they are taking away from.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1701 My experience is that is not always a very good strategy. And, in fact, sometimes you can repatriate more by giving to people something that is a little bit different, giving them something that they don't have before. So that is where that all came from basically.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1702 And again, we are talking about a station that I projected at 16 share, 12‑64 with 10 points coming from The Bull. And again, that is based on that model I shared with you earlier.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1703 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Without ‑‑ I am sorry, go ahead.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1704 MS LORENTZ: I was just going to add, additionally, the format that we are proposing appeals to a slightly older demo, it is an aging demo in Owen Sound currently. And, as Ray and others have spoken, that demographic of 35‑54 with the high percentage of out‑of‑market tuning, it is very community and family focused and a lot of our programming that will be going into this new station will reflect the need for that audience.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1705 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay. And the last question on this is you identified an unmined revenue resource of about $900,000 out there. I am not asking you to give away phone numbers or anything, but can you tell me, roughly, what sort of segments those are in? Are they automotive, are they retail? Give me some idea where those $900,000 loonies can be found.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1706 MR. WEESE: Well, it is pretty broad‑based. I think I have with me somewhere ‑‑ EPI Markets breaks it down by segment in a particular market and so there would be auto and there would be other areas.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1707 If you would just bear with me just one second, I will go through a briefcase and try to find this document.
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 1708 MR. WEESE: And I had better come up with this document. We can play the sample of the sound again while I am going through this if you want.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1709 MR. WEESE: Oh, here we go.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1710 Indeed, the biggest retail category to date in Owen Sound. So when we talk about the untapped revenue potential, what would be off a broad base of existing business sectors that would be out there that are measured by Financial Post markets, when I take a look at information from the Radio Marketing Bureau it indicates that by far the largest sector would be automotive sales as well as RV and parts and that represents by far the biggest category. That is followed by general merchandise, supermarkets, pharmacies, home centres, gas stations, clothing and so on.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1711 So when we talk about that $900,000 of unmined radio potential, it would be taken off, in our mind, this cross‑section of all these markets.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1712 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: And just so I am clear, this is new money, that more competition would increase the spend by advertisers as opposed to shifting their spend from other forms of media or ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1713 MR. WEESE: Well, that would be the idea.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1714 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1715 MR. WEESE: Right now, the market is arguably underserved and if you were to take the calculations of radio share out of the retail shares, it would represent X amount of dollars, $6.2 million to be exact.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1716 Right now we currently estimate that $5.3 million is being taken, the variance being $900,000, and that there is plenty of room in the market for people to attack that directly. They won't get it all but at least it shows that there is room in the market for somebody to compete for that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1717 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay, thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1718 THE CHAIRPERSON: I too have some follow‑up questions and primarily they deal with adding diversity to the market because if we license this service it is not like your Wingham station is going to go away from the Owen Sound market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1719 Mr. Weese, you said that a 13.5 percent share of tuning is down from other years but some of the applicants in these proceedings project an even lower share of tuning, at least in the early years, in their applications.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1720 So, first of all, would you care to comment on what some of those projections of share of tuning are, and, secondly, why you aren't comfortable with just getting 13.5 percent from Owen Sound?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1721 MR. WEESE: Well, okay. Yes, very good and a good question. If their market share ‑‑ the last applicant, I didn't hear what they were projecting after year one but they sounded like they were coming out very strong. The other applicants are also talking about coming out pretty strong with market share as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1722 We believe we are coming out quite aggressively with a 16‑point share but we recognize that we are taking that off ourselves. When we open up for business, we do not expect that our Bull is going to hold onto its share of hours tuned, that that number is going to go down.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1723 We listed in Mr. Kassof's research that it is going to go down 10 points just from his research and we suspect it will take a pretty good dent into that 13.5, that is declining anyway as time goes on.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1724 THE CHAIRPERSON: You did say that about 10 percent of your revenues are generated from the Owen Sound market currently?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1725 MR. WEESE: From all our Wingham radio stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1726 THE CHAIRPERSON: Right. Do you have a sales force in Owen Sound?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1727 MR. WEESE: We have. We have two people that do service in Owen Sound, one specifically in the city and one part of the city and part of the surrounding area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1728 THE CHAIRPERSON: Are you moving that person back to Wingham ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1729 MR. WEESE: We may have to.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1730 THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ if you get licensed?
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1731 MR. WEESE: We will have a sales force, obviously, for the Sound. That person may be a candidate for that team.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1732 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. One of the things about your format ‑‑ again, it goes to diversity in terms of what will be available in the market because your Wingham station will still be available here and so the format question is on this proposal.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1733 Ms Lorentz, you said it had a harder edge than what is currently available in the market; correct?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1734 MS LORENTZ: Harder edge than CFOS, which does have a percentage of oldies that they play within their format that includes news, talk and sports programming. So the catalogue of music that we would be pulling from, the seventies and eighties, would have more of a rock‑based harder edge from that catalogue that perhaps CFOS also digs into primarily.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1735 THE CHAIRPERSON: So there might be some duplication?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1736 MS LORENTZ: There might be some duplication.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1737 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, because when I look at your list, and although I haven't seen it in a while, I see Procol Harum and I don't quite consider Procol Harum to have a harder edge, just as an example.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1738 MS LORENTZ: I think overall the flow of it by focusing on the seventies and eighties, it will have quite a different sound from CFOS.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1739 THE CHAIRPERSON: And I see in response to deficiency questions your target audience is males age 45‑54; is that correct?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1740 MR. WEESE: When we drilled down to what the core was ‑‑ and my understanding of that deficiency question is if you had to identify exactly who your core audience would be, it would be 45+ male to 54. However, our station will serve 35+ to 54 audience.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1741 THE CHAIRPERSON: And what is the core audience of your Wingham station?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1742 MR. WEESE: Of our Bull radio station?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1743 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1744 MR. WEESE: It is 18+.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1745 THE CHAIRPERSON: And what would be the median age of both, of both the Bull and this proposal?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1746 MR. WEESE: The median age? I will let Mark Kassof address what he believes is the median age. My understanding of it is it would be right around 40 and probably male. The Bull seems to be growing a bit of a younger audience but it is strong at 35+ male as well, but burgeoning at 18+.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1747 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1748 Do you have anything to add, Mr. Kassof?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1749 MR. KASSOF: Yes. The projection that I have is that 73 percent of the audience would be 25‑54 men and women. Drilling that down a little further, 62 percent would be 35‑54 and then further still 45 percent would be 45‑54. Male‑female split about 55 percent men.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1750 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Well, thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1751 Legal Counsel?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1752 MS SMITH: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1753 I just have one question for you. I wanted to know if you would be willing to file a breakdown of your projected market tuning by the end of the day December 17th, which is next Monday.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1754 MR. WEESE: Absolutely! We can give that to you now if you like.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1755 MS SMITH: If you have it, that would be great. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1756 MR. WEESE: You are welcome.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1757 THE CHAIRPERSON: You now have your two minutes for your final pitch and to tell us why you would be the best applicant to serve this market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1758 MR. COSTLEY WHITE: I will do that. Thank you very much, Madam Chair and commissioners and staff.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1759 The Commission's criteria for evaluating applications for new radio stations seeks to ensure that the best possible application is licensed while ensuring that no undue damage is done to incumbent broadcasters.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1760 First of all, I would note that the incumbent broadcaster has not contested the capacity of the Owen Sound market to absorb a new station. So that leaves the quality of the application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1761 When this call was issued, Blackburn Radio responded by drawing on its heritage, on its experience and on its skilled team, some of whom you have met today, of broadcasters to develop a proposal for a new radio service of exceptionally high quality to serve the Owen Sound community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1762 I would like to refer you to your material. Stapled to this map of Midwestern Ontario at the back is a comparison chart which I think you have also seen up on your screen here, the purpose of which is to illustrate the quality of our proposal.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1763 Blackburn Radio has proposed by far the highest program expenditures of all the candidates for this licence. You have heard some of the detail this morning. Simply put, this underscores our commitment to broadcasting excellence wherever we operate.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1764 We have also proposed by far the highest level of news content at 18 hours and 18 minutes and to produce this level of news we have proposed the largest news staff of all the applicants, with four full‑time staff and four part‑time correspondents to serve the extended coverage area of our proposed station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1765 We have proposed the highest level of Canadian content, at 40 percent, both during the overall broadcast week and during the daytime period and we have proposed creative CCD initiatives that will enrich the cultural life of the city of Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1766 We have proposed the highest level of capital expenditure and this is also characteristic of our company. We wanted to ensure that our signal will support our mandate, that our team is supplied with the best equipment and that we have a storefront presence in the city which will welcome the community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1767 With respect to format, you have three choices before you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1768 Two applicants, those who have proposed rock formats, have essentially done no format research but merely looked at the BBMs. One applicant chose its format based on testing the popularity of their proposed format only.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1769 By contrast, Blackburn Radio commissioned new consumer research which tested the popularity of and preference for nine different formats. From this research we selected the format that will support the most effective market entry by meeting the greatest unmet need in the market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1770 Blackburn Radio's approach reflects the way in which we operate in the five markets we currently serve.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1771 If my mother and father taught me one lesson of management, it is to hire great people. I am proud of this team, some of whom you have met today, and they prove every day that they can fulfil their promises and deliver great radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1772 I want to thank you very much for your attention. As John said in our opening remarks, if you grant us this licence, you will not be disappointed. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1773 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Costley White, Mr. Weese and to your colleagues for your participation here today.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1774 We will now break for lunch and come back at 1:30. Thank you.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1200 / Suspension à 1200
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1330 / Reprise à 1330
LISTNUM 1 \l 1775 THE SECRETARY: We will now proceed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1776 We will now proceed with item 3, which is an application by Larche Communications Inc. for a licence to operate an English‑language FM commercial radio programming undertaking in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1777 The new station would operate on frequency 92.3 MHz (channel 222B) with an effective radiated power of 20,000 watts (non‑directional antenna/antenna height of 212 metres).
LISTNUM 1 \l 1778 Appearing for the Applicant is Mr. Paul Larche. Please introduce your colleagues and you will have 20 minutes for your presentation.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
LISTNUM 1 \l 1779 MR. LARCHE: Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1780 Good afternoon, Madam Chair and commissioners and CRTC staff.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1781 My name is Paul Larche. I am the President of Larche Communications or LCI for short.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1782 It is always a privilege to present before you and today is no different for a new FM radio station to serve Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1783 Please let me introduce my panel.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1784 Joining me today is Mora Austin, who is our Vice‑President and General Manager of our Midland operation CICZ‑FM. Mora has worked at CICZ for over 20 years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1785 Next to Mora is our company's Music and Program Director along with morning show co‑host of CICZ, Ted Roop. Ted recently won the Canadian Country Music Association's On‑Air Personality of the Year Award and Music Director of the Year Award for 2007.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1786 Seated next to Ted is our Promotions Director for CIKZ‑FM Kitchener, Beth Warren. Prior to joining us four years ago, Beth worked for more than 10 years in the Canadian independent country music industry. She won Manager of the Year Award in both 1999 and 2000 at the Ontario Country Music Association Awards and Record Company Person of the Year at the CCMA Awards in 1999.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1787 Madam Chair, commissioners, I can't tell you how excited I am to be here today. This application for Owen Sound, as well as our application for Peterborough which we will present hopefully in the next couple of days, makes great strategic sense for our company.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1788 Owen Sound is right across Georgian Bay from our Midland operation. We are not only connected geographically, we are both part of cottage country and cottage country radio is something we have had the good fortune to be very successful at for several years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1789 I have had the pleasure of working and living all over Ontario. I grew up in the north and also worked for several years in Toronto but I have always considered cottage country to be the most beautiful part of our province: four great seasons, a multitude of recreation, fantastic waterways, absolutely great people and a terrific place to raise a family. That is why it has been my home for 12 years and I can't imagine living anywhere else.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1790 Expanding our radio holdings in cottage country makes perfect sense on so many levels for us. Because it is our home we intimately know the region. We know how business is conducted in the area. We understand and appreciate the economic drivers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1791 We are part of the fabric and culture of cottage country and at the risk of sounding a bit trite, it is a bit of a radio marriage made in heaven, but we fully appreciate that this is a competitive hearing and that the application must stand on its own and that is exactly what we have done.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1792 We believe this application strikes the perfect balance of reflecting and satisfying market needs, sound business judgment and fulfilling the mandate of the Broadcast Act.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1793 So let's start with the business plan.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1794 Ted.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1795 MR. ROOP: Thank you very much, Paul, and good afternoon, commissioners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1796 We are proposing a rock‑based music format for Owen Sound and this is clearly the format they want. It is made evident by the market's BBM ratings.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1797 The second most‑listened to station with listeners 12+ and the number one station with listeners 25‑54 in Owen Sound is a rock station. The problem is it is not an Owen Sound station. CIBU‑FM Wingham is situated over an hour's drive south of Owen Sound in a different county but the rock format offered by CIBU‑FM is without a doubt filling a huge void in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1798 With only AC, country and oldies on local radio, no station is dedicated to the rock genre. No station is providing radio programming that reflects the interests and lifestyle of rock music listeners in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1799 Offering a local rock station will bring these listeners back to Owen Sound radio. That is why we are proposing Rock 92.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1800 Rock 92 will be a broad‑based rock station that will essentially include the best the format has to offer. Rock 92 will superserve the rock music fan in Owen Sound with a mix of classic rock and the best new rock.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1801 Classic rock artists such as the Guess Who, Rush, Led Zeppelin, BTO, Arrowsmith, the Eagles, AC/DC, the Rolling Stones, Tom Cochrane and Neil Young will make up approximately two‑thirds of the overall playlist.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1802 Also airing on Rock 92 will be current rock music and music from the past five years. Some of these core artists will include Nickelback, Sloan, Avril Lavigne, Sum 41, the Tragically Hip, Default, The Trews and Three Doors Down.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1803 Of course, a high‑quality station must provide a wide variety of music‑related features to engage the rock listener. Rock 92 will feature several locally produced rock programming features targeted to Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1804 Rock 92's programming will be 100 percent locally produced and originating. We believe the only way to truly reflect the community you serve is to ensure all programming originates from the station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1805 We anticipate the impact on incumbent stations will be minimal. We will be repatriating out‑of‑market listeners and bringing back radio dollars that have left the market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1806 I am very proud of the track record CICZ‑FM in Midland has established. At the recent Canadian Country Music Association Awards held in Regina, CICZ‑FM was chosen as Country Station of the Year and this is the fifth time in the past six years we have been honoured with that award.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1807 We want to duplicate this success in Owen Sound. Of course, music is only one component of a successful station. To talk about the rest, over to Mora.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1808 MS AUSTIN: Thanks, Ted.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1809 Our non‑music programming, in a nutshell, will be local, local and more local. That is what has made us successful in Central Ontario, that is what made us successful in Kitchener and that is what will make us successful in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1810 In today's age of iPod, satellite radio and other emerging technologies, terrestrial radio's true and only edge is being local, informing, reflecting and discussing local and regional content.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1811 We have committed to over 12 and a half hours of meaningful local spoken‑word programming. For example, we will program three times per day special community vignettes called "Community Clips." They will feature a wide range of local topics and interviews aimed to reflect the needs of Owen Sound and the cultural diversity of the region.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1812 Similar to Midland, Owen Sound is also lucky enough to have Georgian Bay right on is doorstep. With that in mind, we will offer comprehensive daily recreation and tourism reports throughout the year focused on boating, fishing, camping, skiing, snowmobiling and more.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1813 You will find our community cruiser, our station boat or our station snowmobiles at all major community events, offering both onsite and on‑air exposure.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1814 In addition, the station will invite various community groups and charitable organizations to post their information, special events and link on our website.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1815 Also, we are very excited to offer our listeners an opportunity to voice their opinions and views regarding local issues of importance through our feature entitled "The Owen Sounding Board." Each day our on‑air staff will pose a relevant question to the Owen Sound community. Listeners will be invited to call in and record their feedback. The following day we will air our listeners' comments and concerns.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1816 Rock 92 will also offer a new and diverse news voice to the Owen Sound market. Local and regional news will be first and foremost and will represent 80 percent of our total news package.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1817 With over three hours and 20 minutes devoted to news and an additional three hours of local sports, local weather and local traffic reports, we are convinced we will be supplying the people of Owen Sound with the information that matters most to them each and every day.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1818 As an added benefit we will cross‑promote news, public events and tourist attractions with our Midland operation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1819 Madam Chair and commissioners, I have worked at CICZ‑FM, which originally was CKMP‑AM, for 21 years. Just prior to Paul's purchase of CICZ, I can honestly tell you I was not proud of the radio station. I loved the radio business but at that point seriously considered getting out of it. We had a skeleton staff of only six and definitely we were not serving our community in the way in which they expected or deserved. We were losing respect and revenues, let alone morale.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1820 It is hard to believe that we just celebrated our 10th anniversary under Larche Communications. I guess time really does fly when you are having fun and what a great ride it has been.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1821 Under Paul's leadership ‑‑ although, frankly, I have done most of the work ‑‑
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1822 MS AUSTIN: ‑‑ Midland has been a great broadcast success story in ratings, revenues, product and, above all, the critical role we play in reflecting and informing the communities we serve. We are very proud to say we are doing the same in Kitchener.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1823 Our mission statement is exceedingly simple: MOCHA, an acronym for Make Our Customer Happy Always. Our customers are the communities we serve, including listeners, advertisers and employees.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1824 The core values behind MOCHA are simple as well: Make sure we have the right strategy, the right people, effective systems and quality in everything we do.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1825 Our vision is to be the most successful small independent broadcaster in Canada. We want to be envied as a leader in ratings, innovation and place to work.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1826 It really comes down to this: Ask our customers what they want and then give it to them. What a concept!
LISTNUM 1 \l 1827 Despite the size of our company, Paul has set high standards that bring out the best in all of us. His staff and peers respect and admire him. He believes in rewarding his people both promotionally and financially and our profit‑sharing program exhibits his generous character.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1828 We want our company to grow. Paul wants to give his employees an opportunity to grow as well. That is why we are here today. We have shown this industry and ourselves that despite being a small independent we can compete with the very best in the country.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1829 I would like to now pass it over to Beth to discuss our impressive CCD initiatives.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1830 MS WARREN: Thanks, Mora.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1831 I have worked in the music industry in various capacities for more than 20 years and I have seen firsthand that the dollars committed by radio do make a huge difference to Canadian artists. I have worked with several artists that have gone on to have successful careers and they couldn't have done it without the help and financial support of radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1832 LCI is dedicated to providing assistance toward the growth and development of the Canadian independent recording industry and are therefore committing a total of $350,000 over the first licence term. We believe these initiatives will make a real difference, particularly with emerging artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1833 The Foundation to Assist Canadian Talent on Record, or FACTOR, has been directly responsible for many Canadian success stories and we are proud to be contributing broadcasters. $20,000 per year will go to FACTOR. It goes without saying the amazing job they do at assisting Canadian talent nationally and internationally.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1834 A lifelong love of music starts with our children. To encourage and support music programs in the school system, another $10,000 per year will go towards the purchase of new musical instruments and equipment for Owen Sound elementary and secondary schools.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1835 We have also committed $10,000 per year toward the Owen Sound Kiwanis Festival of Music. Many Canadian artists perform for the very first time on the Kiwanis stage, making it an important part in the careers of some of Canada's biggest stars.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1836 Rock 92 will also host the RockQuest Talent Search, at a cost of $10,000 per year. RockQuest will be modelled on the successful StarQuests we conduct in Midland and Kitchener. The winner will receive studio time, reproduction and, of course, airtime on our station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1837 Our application also outlines a commitment of $50,000 per year in airtime devoted to promotion of music‑related activities in Owen Sound and area as it relates to emerging artists. This would include the promotion of concerts and performances by local artists, artistic programs in the community and the release of CDs for local artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1838 We will also produce emerging artist programming, including the new Artist of the Month, with 28 weekly vignettes highlighting the new artists, similar to our features that we currently air on our existing stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1839 These are truly outstanding CCD initiatives that we believe exceed and surpass the Commission's CCD plan as outlined in the recent Radio Review.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1840 In my various positions in the music business I have worked on the artist side with many radio stations from across the country. I know it sounds like I am bucking for a raise but I can honestly tell you I have never seen a company that puts so much time, effort and money into promoting and exposing Canadian talent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1841 Just two weeks ago, our stations in Midland and Kitchener treated 4,000 of our listeners to two free concerts by Canadian country superstars The Wilkinsons and Emerson Drive, along with new Canadian emerging artist Jesse Farrell. The cost was $25,000 and this was not a CCD initiative. It was an investment we made in bringing our listeners and our artists together to celebrate great Canadian music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1842 We consider this one of our mandates and we hope to have the chance to do this in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1843 Paul.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1844 MR. LARCHE: Thank you, Beth.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1845 So again, Madam Chair and commissioners, we are before you positioning ourselves for the long term. This application, as I mentioned at the outset, is very strategic for our company.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1846 As you know, we are waiting approval on the divestiture of CIKZ‑FM Kitchener and the purchase of CICX‑FM Orillia. This will allow our company to rid ourselves ‑‑ and I say this in the absolute nicest possible way ‑‑ of minority partnerships.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1847 We are back on our own with total control of our destiny. It will allow us to consolidate our efforts in Central Ontario and cottage country.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1848 My vision of this destiny is to create a group of radio properties in small to medium size markets within a few hours drive of Midland. That is why we applied and received approval for Sudbury, that is why we are applying for Peterborough and that is why we are here today.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1849 As we have done with CICZ‑FM, I want these stations to be exemplary and envied inside and outside the business and the communities we serve.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1850 Madam Chair and commissioners, we all consider this a privilege. We are custodians of broadcast licences that belong to the Canadian people. The Broadcast Act wisely lets us hold onto it if we give back and reflect our country and communities. What a deal!
LISTNUM 1 \l 1851 We work hard to hold up our end of that deal. Our track record speaks for itself.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1852 Just last week we raised $25,000 for The Salvation Army in Midland through our Christmas Penny Drive. People in that market collect pennies all year long for this event.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1853 This fall our morning co‑host Carey Moran shaved her head and raised $25,000 for the Kelly Shires Foundation, a foundation that helps women battling breast cancer.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1854 I have a terrific staff and I can assure you they know our mandate and what we have to do to hold up our end of the deal.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1855 In conclusion, I hope you will agree that this is a fair, balanced and realistic application based on what we have proven that we do and not just on what you want to hear.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1856 Approval of this application will fill the largest underserved format in the market rock. BBM so obviously confirms this as the number one station with listeners 25‑54 is an out‑of‑market rock station over an hour's drive away from Owen Sound. Let's bring those listeners back.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1857 Because we are repatriating out‑of‑market tuning, approval of this application will have minimal impact on the incumbent radio broadcaster in Owen Sound, Bayshore Broadcasting. We believe this is evident by the fact that they intervened against all applications for this hearing except ours.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1858 Approval of this application will result in Canadian talent initiatives totalling an aggressive $350,000. We will be offering high‑quality programming and standards by a young group of broadcasters who are considered by their peers as the best in Canada.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1859 Approval of this application will introduce a new editorial voice in Owen Sound, one that will offer extensive news and community programming as well as a number of additional community initiatives that will expand and reflect the makeup and culture of this great community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1860 This new voice will allow us to cross‑promote events and activities in cottage country and Central Ontario with our Midland and, hopefully soon, Orillia station. It will also allow us to further consolidate our efforts in this part of the province where we have decided to live and call home.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1861 Finally, approval of this application will allow a small independent radio broadcaster to get stronger, stronger to hold its own against much larger public companies, stronger to weather economic downturns and stronger to contribute to and enhance the goals and aspirations of the Broadcast Act.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1862 Thank you. We would be more than happy to take your questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1863 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Larche and your colleagues.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1864 I guess my first question is: Would you agree that beside every great man sits a great woman, based on what Ms Austin said earlier?
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1865 MR. LARCHE: Actually, we have several ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1866 THE CHAIRPERSON: I am sure.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1867 MR. LARCHE: ‑‑ great women that work with us but Mora has been such a huge contributor to our company, and believe it or not, she has worked at CICZ for 20 years. She did start when she was 12 but she does a great job up there and our company wouldn't work without her.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1868 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1869 I am going to start the questioning in a much similar fashion as I did with the first applicant this morning, The Pearl, and speak about your choice of format, because, as I said earlier, it does form the basis for your business plan and the reason why you are here.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1870 You are proposing a blend of current and classic rock, targeting a predominantly male audience, age 35 to 54. Correct?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1871 MR. LARCHE: That's correct. Thirty‑five to 49 is the target.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1872 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thirty‑five to 49.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1873 And the median age?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1874 MR. LARCHE: Forty to 42‑year‑old male.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1875 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Other than the BBM, which I know is a very strong indicator, but other than the BBM, what other factors did you take into consideration in coming up with this format and, therefore, your target audience?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1876 MR. LARCHE: First of all, I would like to comment on research in general for new applications, because I think it is quite relevant in this situation. We never shy away from doing qualitative research. We have done it in most of our applications. We have done it for Peterborough, which we will present to you in the next couple of days. And we have worked with some great researchers, including Mark Kassof, who you saw this morning. Mark is actually doing some work for us right now in another market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1877 When you are putting a business plan together and you are trying to look at what the obvious hole is in terms of local and in a market, sometimes it becomes so obvious that it slaps you in the face, and, honestly, this is one of those times.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1878 When you have the number one radio station with listeners 25 to 54, and number two 12‑plus, with a radio station that is, arguably, an out‑of‑market radio station ‑‑ they are an hour away ‑‑ it is a testament to them that they put out a great product, but it is also so obvious that that is the biggest hole that is not being served in that market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1879 Then what you do is, you look around at similar markets in Ontario. You don't have to go very far. You can look at Barrie, you can look at Sudbury, you can look at Peterborough, and you can look at Kitchener, where they have a country station and an AC station, and the rock format is the format that makes so much sense.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1880 It is true that BBM is relevant third party research, but we knew that the research was going to show us that what people aren't getting from a local radio station is rock, and we stand firmly behind that. Even looking at some of the other research that is being done, I think that still holds true.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1881 THE CHAIRPERSON: We heard from Blackburn that, according to the latest BBM, they get about a 13.5 share out of this market. How much of that do you expect to repatriate?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1882 MR. LARCHE: We project a 7 share in our first year, and we see that moving up to a 12 share by Year 3.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1883 Again, this is based on our experience. When we went into Kitchener, there was an out‑of‑market country station that was doing quite well in that market, and we found out that you don't come in and all of a sudden, just because you are local, take that audience away immediately. It does take some time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1884 We have tried to do it based on our experience and, being conservative, we thought that it would take a little bit of time for us to get that audience.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1885 We also know that we will never get all of it. The Bull, or whatever they decide to do with it, will continue to have an audience in the Owen Sound area, because, as I mentioned, it's a good product.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1886 THE CHAIRPERSON: So you don't necessarily agree with The Bull when they say that they may drop as much as 10 points?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1887 MR. LARCHE: I look at it, also, from the target audience point of view, and the target audience is, arguably, 25 to 54. Everyone is going to narrow it down a little bit, but that is the money‑making demo, and The Bull is doing very well in that demographic.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1888 It was mentioned this morning that the ratings are starting to slip with The Bull, but that, in fact, doesn't hold true to last week's BBMs. They are the number one station, 25 to 54, with a 21.7 share, and that is the highest share they have ever had in that market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1889 So, in fact, the ratings are going up, not down.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1890 THE CHAIRPERSON: As we said earlier, they are not going to go away.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1891 MR. LARCHE: Of course not.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1892 THE CHAIRPERSON: Whoever we license in this market ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1893 MR. LARCHE: Like I said, they are good broadcasters. They are very smart, and they will ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1894 Obviously, they don't make their bread and butter in Owen Sound, they make it in their home market. So this would have some impact on them, but I don't see them going away.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1895 THE CHAIRPERSON: And you are going to have to co‑exist with them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1896 MR. LARCHE: Absolutely.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1897 THE CHAIRPERSON: In terms of the music, how much duplication is there going to be between what you are proposing and what is currently being played on The Bull ‑‑ and it goes to diversity of music available in the market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1898 MR. LARCHE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1899 A lot, but, again, we have looked at diversity in terms of local radio versus out‑of‑market radio. We are used to that in markets like Midland, Barrie, Kitchener, where we operate, where we are 50, 60 percent of the tuning.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1900 All formats are available in these markets, but they are not available on the local dial.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1901 Our format will be very similar to The Bull's. Like I said, they are a very well programmed rock station, with about two‑third classic rock versus a new and current mix.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1902 We would be very similar to that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1903 I can't stand up here and say that we are going to be different and create diversity from that radio station, because we are not. Like I said, they are doing a good job.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1904 What we would be doing is something very similar to that, but we would be doing it with Owen Sound as our basis. We would be a local Owen Sound radio station, talking to and trying to reflect the needs and wants of people in Owen Sound, not in Wingham.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1905 THE CHAIRPERSON: And you will do this through your spoken word programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1906 That will be the differentiating factor?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1907 MR. LARCHE: Absolutely.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1908 THE CHAIRPERSON: We will talk about your spoken word programming a little bit later, but in terms of the impact on the existing stations, the Bayshore stations in Owen Sound, your supplementary brief specifies that 35 percent of your advertising revenues will come from existing stations. Correct?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1909 MR. LARCHE: Yes. From the incumbent stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1910 THE CHAIRPERSON: From the incumbent stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1911 But given that the format currently doesn't exist, some may say: That's really high.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1912 Why do you expect that you will have that level of impact on existing stations, where the format doesn't exist?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1913 Or, are you saying that maybe what does exist might come a little bit close to your format?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1914 MR. LARCHE: Again, we can tell you what we have seen happen in markets, and not just necessarily what you want to hear. The fact is that we will have an impact on Bayshore.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1915 We do say that, I think, it is 200,000 or 250,000 in the first year, and going up from that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1916 What will happen is, you might have an advertiser who is just spending money on the country station and the AC station. They might continue to do that, but what is going to happen is, they are going to split it up now three ways, and that will have a bit of an effect on the incumbent station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1917 If you look at the size of the market, the value of the market, and the new radio growth that is coming into the market ‑‑ and we project that 15 percent of our revenue is going to come from new growth ‑‑ it is very easy for them to absorb it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1918 THE CHAIRPERSON: You also say that 50 percent from new advertisers and other media ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1919 MR. LARCHE: That's correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1920 THE CHAIRPERSON: So is it your contention that there are advertisers in the Owen Sound market who want to specifically target your target audience?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1921 MR. LARCHE: Yes, and I also think it ties back to the fact that in Owen Sound right now there is only one broadcaster. Again, they do a good job, but when you have more people out there selling radio, selling the value of radio as a medium, not even necessarily your radio station, but talking about why radio works in advertising, that tends to bring people over from newspaper and other media that haven't been convinced yet, because you are basically doubling the effort from the one current broadcaster to, now, two in the market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1922 THE CHAIRPERSON: So the other media would be things like print, that you would expect ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1923 MR. LARCHE: Correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1924 THE CHAIRPERSON: We have talked about it to some degree, but, if licensed, the fact is that you will be competing with a well‑heeled incumbent in Bayshore, and, in a very similar degree, with Blackburn's Wingham station. It is competition. It is out‑of‑market, but it is still competition.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1925 As an independent broadcaster in the market, if you are licensed, what would be the challenges ‑‑ or maybe you see them as opportunities ‑‑ to be successful in this type of market?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1926 MR. LARCHE: I see much more opportunity than challenge, although, again, we are not saying that it would be easy. Again, we have tried to make it so clear in this that we are trying to tell you what we will do, and we are basing it on realistic numbers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1927 We don't necessarily have the highest amount when it comes to programming expenses, but what we do say we are going to do we will deliver on.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1928 If you are looking at, basically, how we would react to competing against two players in a market, where they are already entrenched, we are very comfortable already doing that. We do it where we are based in Midland. We certainly have done that in the last four years in Kitchener. We know that if we do MOCHA, which we have talked about a few times, which is "Ask our customers what they want and give it to them," ultimately we will succeed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1929 THE CHAIRPERSON: Speaking of your Midland and Kitchener stations, are there any synergies, if you are licensed in Owen Sound, with those two stations?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1930 MR. LARCHE: There definitely will be some synergies, especially at the back end of radio administration, our accounting, HR, engineering ‑‑ not too much on the programming side, for two reasons. One is, this would be a format that we don't have right now. We have country‑based formats. This would be rock, so we would be bringing in new people that are experts in that field.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1931 Wherever there could be a synergy that makes business sense, we would definitely look at it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1932 THE CHAIRPERSON: So not necessarily in programming.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1933 MR. LARCHE: Actually, really not in programming at all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1934 THE CHAIRPERSON: So the vignettes that, Ms Austin, you spoke about in the oral presentation, these would be totally independent of the Midland and/or Kitchener stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1935 MS AUSTIN: Yes. They would be locally produced and researched, and the interviews would be done through our newsroom in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1936 THE CHAIRPERSON: And they are not vignettes of artists?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1937 MS AUSTIN: There are two. There are artist vignettes, which would feature emerging rock artists, if you will, and the second vignettes, which we call community clips, which would be something that would go under the news umbrella. We would interview the local Boy Scouts on what they are doing this week, if they have a special event, or something they are doing ‑‑ a fundraiser. We would have them on the air and do a little interview and feature that on our programming under the news umbrella.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1938 THE CHAIRPERSON: So if you were to create artist vignettes for this station that also may attract a country audience, you wouldn't use those vignettes?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1939 Bon Jovi ‑‑ I don't know, I am making this up.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1940 John Cougar Mellencamp, Mr. Larche.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1941 MS AUSTIN: Although both of those, sort of, have crossed over between the formats, these vignettes would be specifically for emerging artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1942 If it made sense we would do it, but at this point I can't think of any emerging rock artist that would cross over to the country format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1943 THE CHAIRPERSON: And vice versa.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1944 MS AUSTIN: Right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1945 THE CHAIRPERSON: The vignettes you are doing on the country stations would not appear on this station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1946 MS AUSTIN: Right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1947 THE CHAIRPERSON: We will go further into spoken word, because you are offering a substantial amount ‑‑ 12 hours and 31 minutes, to be exact.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1948 In your application you say that 6 hours and 42 minutes is information programming, and there will be 3 hours and 23 minutes of hard news. Correct?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1949 MR. LARCHE: Correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1950 THE CHAIRPERSON: Does that 3 hours and 23 minutes include surveillance?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1951 MR. LARCHE: No, that is strictly news.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1952 THE CHAIRPERSON: Strictly news.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1953 MR. LARCHE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1954 THE CHAIRPERSON: Of which about 70 percent is local?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1955 MR. LARCHE: Yes. I think in the deficiency report we said that 60 percent would be local, 20 percent regional, and 20 percent national.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1956 Of course, that is an average.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1957 THE CHAIRPERSON: And there, too, there won't be any synergies with either your Midland or Kitchener stations?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1958 MR. LARCHE: No, except if there is an obvious news story that we want to cross‑promote between one or the other that just makes sense. You know, there was a big fire in Barrie the other day, which is right in our backyard, so that would be something that ‑‑ we would have a reporter down there and we would, most likely, do a cut‑in for the Owen Sound station. That would just make sense.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1959 THE CHAIRPERSON: Again, according to your supplementary brief, you say that you would hire two full‑time news people. Would these two people be responsible only for the 3 hours and 23 minutes?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1960 In other words, they won't be responsible for any of the other spoken word content?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1961 MR. LARCHE: They would be primarily responsible for all of the news and some of the surveillance, some of the sports, and, obviously, some of the weather forecasts.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1962 Again, this is based on our experience. That is what we currently have in Midland.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1963 Again, when you are a small operator, you learn how to work lean and smart, and you also know that to do really well in this business you need really good people. I have been very fortunate to be able to find and attract and hold onto some really good people.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1964 This format will not be a news‑intensive format, it will be a music‑intensive format, but we want to make sure that we are providing everything that the local person needs in terms of news in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1965 News is just one component of reflecting the community properly, especially a community like Owen Sound, where tourism is so big. You have to be very involved with recreation, and that we don't include in our news department. We hire people who just work our recreation teams.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1966 We have two people who are on a boat in Georgian Bay throughout the summer, calling in reports, talking about marine conditions, talking about weather alerts, talking about events that are going on.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1967 There is an argument that that is more promotion, but there is also an argument that that is news and surveillance, as well, particularly when it comes to things such as weather.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1968 And it goes on with snowmobiling and fishing, and just living the culture of that market and reflecting it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1969 A little over 3 hours of solid news is aggressive, but we feel that is what you need to give everybody what they need, and they don't have to go to another source to get it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1970 But the additional 8 hours is where we really will separate ourselves from the pack.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1971 THE CHAIRPERSON: And it is what will separate you from The Bull?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1972 MR. LARCHE: That, primarily, is what will separate us from The Bull.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1973 As I mentioned earlier, our music will be similar, but the spoken word content will all be reflecting Owen Sound and what is going on in that area. It will not be talking about Wingham, it will be talking about Owen Sound, and it will be reflecting what people in Owen Sound want to know and hear.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1974 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1975 I am going to move on to CCD. You have committed to an over‑above CCD contribution of $49,000 annually, for a total of $343,000 over the licence term. Will you accept this as a condition of licence?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1976 MR. LARCHE: Gladly.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1977 THE CHAIRPERSON: There was a little twist on answering that question, but thank you.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 1978 THE CHAIRPERSON: Please confirm your understanding that, if licensed, your station will have to contribute a basic annual CCD contribution, imposed by regulation, based on the station's total annual revenues, and in the amounts as set out in paragraph 116 of the new Radio Policy, Public Notice CRTC‑2006‑158.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1979 MR. LARCHE: Confirmed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1980 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1981 As you know, the final line of questioning has to do with the competition in terms of the applications before us. The Pearl is proposing a similar format, or maybe not, depending on your perspective, and I would like you to comment on whether or not you think there are similarities between your proposal and that of The Pearl.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1982 MR. LARCHE: There definitely are similarities. They seem, again, like another good group of broadcasters. I know that Christopher Grossman really knows broadcasting and has put on some very successful radio stations in a lot of the markets he has.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1983 There is no doubt that they wouldn't put on a good radio station. What would make ours different and, arguably, maybe a little better?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1984 I think we have to look at what separates our applications, and I think that, certainly, our CCD contribution is a big factor. We have significantly more money up there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1985 We also, self‑servingly, think that we do a pretty good job in the country genre, and we are itching in the worst way to do it on the rock side. Rock music is near and dear, certainly, to my heart. I grew up playing in a rock band, and Purple Haze and ‑‑ you don't want to hear it, but ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 1986 And I put Q92 on the air in Sudbury back in 1990, and it is still the number one radio station up in Sudbury.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1987 We would take this and we would put out an absolutely great rock music product. There is no doubt in my mind that the other applicants would put out good products, as well, but all I can tell you is, based on our experience, and based on our track record, we tend to really pay so much attention to the product. That is the core. That is our main driver, making sure that the product is right and is doing what the customer wants.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1988 THE CHAIRPERSON: One of the things you said in your supplementary brief ‑‑ and I am going to read it, so I make sure I get it right ‑‑
"From a monetary and execution perspective, it is a substantial and aggressive undertaking for a company of our size. The combination of three operations will greatly enhance the prospects of financial stability and survival for LCI."
LISTNUM 1 \l 1989 "Financial stability" and "survival" are strong words. You did touch upon it in your oral presentation, but I would like to give you the opportunity to elaborate on these statements, and what awarding a licence to you for Owen Sound would mean for your company.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1990 MR. LARCHE: As I mentioned in the oral presentation, the vision I have for our company is to be a central Ontario‑based radio company that is 100 percent controlled by myself and the group of people that I work with. I think that if I were to look at what has happened over the past few years, where we expanded into other markets where we didn't totally have control of our destiny, it kind of came back to bite us a bit.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1991 So we want to get back into control, into an area that I want to stay and live in and call home.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1992 But I also know that this business changes. There are several large broadcasters that we compete with in all the markets we are in, and they are very smart and they have deep pockets. We, basically, have to make sure that we have two or three or four radio properties, preferably in some different formats. To weather the storms of format changes and direct competition, we need those economies of scale. It makes perfect strategic sense for us to do it in an area in which we live, which we know, and that is why we are here today. That is why we will be here for Peterborough, so that we can concentrate on this part of Ontario, call it home, and be experts at it, and reflect those communities, and talk about everything that is going on within those communities that goes back and forth, because the just north of Toronto area really is different from other parts of the province, and you have to live there to really understand how it works.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1993 THE CHAIRPERSON: If I have taken anything away from your final two minutes, I apologize, but thank you for that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1994 How many licences should we award in Owen Sound?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1995 MR. LARCHE: One.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1996 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Larche, and your colleagues.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1997 Do my colleagues have any further questions?
LISTNUM 1 \l 1998 Commissioner del Val.
LISTNUM 1 \l 1999 COMMISSIONER DEL VAL: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11000 I just want to understand a bit better, from your perspective, the difference between your proposed format and the proposed format of Blackburn.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11001 MR. LARCHE: Maybe I could let Ted talk to this a little bit.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11002 We are proposing a mainstream rock format, whereas Blackburn is proposing a classic hits format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11003 I can appreciate how some of this can sometimes sound confusing, because there is a lot of overlap, but a classic hits format would be probably defined as less edgier. Most of its music would be what we would call classic, from the seventies and the eighties, and the sixties, not too much new music, and it would have a bit wider repertoire in rock, to include some of what you might call softer rock.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11004 I think they mentioned some of the artists that they were referring to, some of the early Elton John and Carley Simon ‑‑ artists that wouldn't typically be on a rock station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11005 A mainstream rock station will have a little bit more of an edge to it. It will be more male skewed. It will be, generally, a little bit heavier.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11006 Ted, is there anything you want to add to that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11007 MR. ROOP: I think that pretty much sums it up, with the addition that we would be playing some new stuff, as well. A third of our playlist would be comprised of new music, too ‑‑ the last five years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11008 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11009 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Menzies.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11010 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11011 I have a question in reference to bringing back radio dollars to Owen Sound. I understand the desire to repatriate the audience, but I am a little confused as to how that might work.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11012 I would assume that the advertising that goes out brings people in. If it didn't, it wouldn't happen.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11013 How do you see that money returning to, in essence, and enhancing the community, and, at the same time, not actually decreasing the amount of commercial activity coming into the community from outside?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11014 MR. LARCHE: Well, if I understand your question correctly, and please correct me if I'm wrong, are you referring to when we say that we are going to bring listeners back to the local market and dollars back to the local market? The way we are explaining this is the money that is being taken out of that market by The Bull, for example, and the other stations out of Wingham, that is not ‑‑ that is money that is Owen Sound advertising radio money that could go to a local Owen Sound radio station, either the current incumbents or a new one if you were to licence it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11015 If those ‑‑ when we come in we would obviously be taking some ratings as we have outlaid in our application, and in time we would bring those dollars that are being spent on an out‑of‑market radio station back into Owen Sound radio, so that the revenue pool within Owen Sound radio is strong enough to make sure that all the stations can fulfill their mandate and be successful.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11016 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: And you are confident you would still be able to provide the reach, though, to attract dollars for those advertisers coming into Owen Sound that currently are, because I am going to assume they are otherwise ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 11017 MR. LARCHE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11018 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: ‑‑ you wouldn't advertise out.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11019 Yes, okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11020 MR. LARCHE: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11021 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11022 Ms Warren indicated the $340,000 or $350,000 or so could make a real difference in terms of the developing of Canadian artists or emerging Canadian artists. I'm just curious if you could give me ‑‑ if there is a couple of ‑‑ one or a couple of success stories that you could share with us to show where it has made a real difference so far.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11023 MS WARREN: Oh, as far as which artists have benefited from FACTOR for example?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11024 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Yes, who did you make into a star?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11025 MS WARREN: Who did I make into a star personally?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11026 Well, I was married to a musician for over 15 years. Does that count?
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 11027 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Did he become a star?
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 11028 MS WARREN: Well, we are divorced now. So you know no comment.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 11029 MS WARREN: Actually, my former husband is a well known country music artist, Jamie Warren. I have also worked with Jason Blain who recently had a number one hit.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11030 I have worked with a couple of artists outside of the country format as well, a couple of roots acts and I have done a lot of different things in the music business from being a roadie to tour managing to managing things, promotions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11031 As far as FACTOR is concerned, FACTOR is really a huge ‑‑ makes a huge difference as far as Canadian artists are concerned, everyone from Great Big Sea, Alanis Morissette. At some point most of these artists had to apply for FACTOR because to make a record is a hugely expensive proposition. And so the money that Canadian broadcasters contribute towards FACTOR, it's the only way we are going to sustain the Canadian music business, is to continue to support Canadian acts.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11032 MR. LARCHE: Just add to that in terms of specific examples there are several, but Jason McCoy is one who lives just outside of Midland, is right now probably, arguably, the top male country vocalist in Canada. He is now working out of Nashville but he has won the CC male vocalist of the year award, I think a couple of times, right, Ted? He is an artist that started out in our area that we worked with, that we helped promote, won our talent contest, went onto a different level, so on and so forth. So there is one clear example.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11033 And there is so many others that are ‑‑ just haven't maybe made it to that star level yet but they are doing so well. Deric Ruttan who is a songwriter in Bracebridge, is doing extremely well. He won another one of our talent contests and he is making a great living and I think ‑‑ was it last year the number one song in the U.S.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11034 So I mean, we have a lot of these types of success stories. But also we deal so much with artists day to day and as Beth mentioned, you know, we showcase artists. We put our money where our mouth is. We bring our listeners together so they don't have to pay to see some of this stuff because self‑servingly the more they enjoy these artists the more they are going to listen to our radio station. But we always take the time to make sure that we are introducing somebody new.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11035 And we were introducing Jessie Farrell a few weeks ago who is an up and coming Canadian artist. And she had an opportunity to have great exposure in front of, you know, 4,000 people over two nights and radio exposure. Those are the types of things that make a difference.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11036 MS WARREN: We even do, not necessarily things that involve money, just bringing artists into the station to have them on the air during the course of the day and bringing in listeners to meet them and do a live performance in the studio. It's beneficial for the act and it's great for our listeners. It creates a buzz about that artist and we bring in a lot of brand new acts.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11037 We recently at both of our stations had a brand new act. His name is Johnny Pronto and he came into each station last week and performed for a bunch of listeners and on the air and created quite a buzz about himself, and he is just a relatively ‑‑ a relative newcomer. He was nominated for the best new artist of the year last year at the CCMAs.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11038 MR. LARCHE: And not to name drop but I'm from Timmins and grew up with Shania Twain.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 11039 MR. LARCHE: And although I didn't own a radio station up there at the time I was just hoping that I would work in radio. The radio stations up there at that time had a lot to do with helping her get her get her career started. So it's certainly not just us but that's a pretty clear example when you grow up in northern Ontario.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11040 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11041 I had ‑‑ maybe you can help me on this. This is a question that could really go to everybody but I'm trying to get my head around this 25 to 54 demographic that gets mentioned.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11042 If I am an advertiser I think I would want something a bit more specific than that. I would want to know how many households of $75,000 income and higher, that sort of thing. 25 to 54 seems ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 11043 MR. LARCHE: A family reunion, isn't it?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11044 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Well, one guy is buying beer; the other guy is buying Viagra, right?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11045 MR. LARCHE: Exactly.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 11046 MR. LARCHE: It's a family reunion.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11047 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: It's a huge ‑‑
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 11048 MR. LARCHE: So when we say ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 11049 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: More specifically is your target in terms of that? I am a car dealer. Sell me on what your market is going to be.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11050 MR. LARCHE: Yes, and you know you are so correct in that 25‑54 is way too broad. It's just unfortunately an advertising industry term that kind of encapsulates so much of ‑‑ national advertisers in particular tend to want to buy 25‑54.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11051 But to answer your question specifically, the great thing about BBM research is that it does offer so much qualitative information in terms of, you know, who your audience is, what their income is, what their household status is, their education level. But it also gets into stuff like do they enjoy fishing, have they bought a fridge or a stove in the last couple of years, have they went out and went to a family restaurant versus a high end restaurant or a fast food service restaurant. I mean, these are all types of things that we have at our disposal to go out and sell advertisers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11052 Now, specifically with this radio station we would be targeting our target ‑‑ if there was one person up there it would be arguably a 40‑year old male. But obviously we would have some females listening at this radio station. We would have some people that are 30 years old and we would have some people that are 50 years old just because of the nature of the format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11053 But we would obviously be targeting what that type of consumer would have to offer. And you know, typically in a market like Owen Sound or anywhere in Canada it would be probably at the higher end of the income scale. You know, certainly automotive, home improvement, all of that type of thing is where we would be trying to target.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11054 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: So would the cottage country area, would that be typically a higher income level area or not or is it ‑‑ because I'm trying to ‑‑ is it weekenders or ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 11055 MR. LARCHE: In the summertime it's not weekenders. It's all summer. The population in that part of Ontario swells by a million people in the summertime. Unfortunately, it's been difficult not just for us but for any radio station to really monetize it from a ratings point of view because those people are not rated.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11056 But certainly, the impact that they have on the local retail community is quite obvious. And these people when they come up to their cottage are listening to local radio because it's arguably the only radio they can get, especially if you start getting farther north, you know, than midland. So the retailers are keenly aware of that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11057 Our business ‑‑ and again, I would probably hazard to say that most radio stations in our region, most of their business is made in the summer months; versus Kitchener, for example, where the summers actually are summer months because everybody is up north.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11058 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay, thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11059 THE CHAIRPERSON: Legal counsel.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11060 MR. SMITH: Thank you. I just have one following CCD question for you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11061 I would like you to confirm your understanding that of the base annual amount for CCD no less than 60 percent of the stations basic annual CCD contribution will be allocated to either FACTOR and of the remaining amount, if any, may be directed to any eligible CCD initiative at your discretion.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11062 MR. LARCHE: Confirmed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11063 MS SMITH: Thank you. That's all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11064 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Larche, you have your two minutes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11065 MR. LARCHE: Oh, yes, I forgot about that.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 11066 MR. LARCHE: I'm not even going to read from notes here. You know, I think we have made our case fairly well. We are offering a format that is currently not being offered by any local radio station. We believe that the BBM research is very credible research to show this, particularly when you compare it against other markets.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11067 I think we are bringing a significant amount of surveillance and news and local spoken word programming to the market that will reflect Owen Sound and will enhance the lives and the culture and the people of Owen Sound, frankly. There is going to be many synergy opportunities for us, for our company to get stronger in that part of Ontario.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11068 And again, you have several really good applications in front of you. We don't envy your position. But we think at the end of the day, especially when you consider the impact that we are going to have on the incumbents and that the incumbent you know didn't intervene on our application, would say that they probably in a perfect world wouldn't want anybody coming in, but if somebody did come in I would assume ‑‑ and I'm not trying to speak for them. I'm just going on the fact that we didn't get intervened. I would assume that they would probably prefer it was us and that has to be for a reason.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11069 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Larche, and to your colleagues, thank you very much for your presentation today.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11070 MR. LARCHE: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11071 THE CHAIRPERSON: I understand we have a little housekeeping issue to deal with. So I apologize for breaking up the day but we are going to take another 15‑minute break.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11072 So we will be back at 2:40. Thank you.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1425 / Suspension à 1425
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1440 / Reprise à 1440
LISTNUM 1 \l 11073 THE SECRETARY: We are ready to begin. Order, please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11074 For the record Blackburn Radio has filed in response to undertakings projected of market listening hours. This document has been added to the public record and copies are available in the public examination room.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11075 We will now proceed with item 4 which is an application by Evanov Communications Inc. for a licence to operate an English language FM commercial radio programming in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11076 The new station would operate on frequency 92.3 MHz (channel 222C1) with an effective radiated power of 40,000 watts (non‑directional antenna/antenna height of 181 metres).
LISTNUM 1 \l 11077 Appearing for the applicant is Mr. Bill Evanov.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11078 Please introduce your colleagues and you will have 20 minutes to make your presentation.
PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
LISTNUM 1 \l 11079 MR. EVANOV: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11080 Good morning, Madam Chair and Commissioners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11081 MS LAURIGNANO: It's afternoon now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11082 MR. EVANOV: Good afternoon. It is afternoon. Sorry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11083 My name is Bill Evanov and I don't know the time of the day.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 11084 MR. EVANOV: And I am President of Evanov Communications Inc., and before we begin I do want to introduce my panel because they are the backbone of the radio station that makes it work.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11085 Okay. On my left is Carmela Laurignano, Vice‑President of our radio group. To her left is Ky Joseph, Vice President of Sales.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11086 On my right is Ted Silver who is responsible for programming in this application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11087 At the second table to the very left at the edge of it is a new emergent artist, Brian Roman. Sitting beside him is our legal counsel, Stuart Robertson. To his right is our CFO, Michael Kilbride; to his right is Sean Moreman who will handle CCD; to Sean's right is Gary Gamble, Program and News Director; to Gary's right is Debra McLaughlin of Strategic Inc. who did the research for this application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11088 I will now begin.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11089 Our company is a strong independent broadcaster. We have been in the radio business for over 30 years and we operate in small, medium and major markets offering a variety of formats.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11090 Our experience and our research tell us that the best choice for Owen Sound is new easy listening, and I would like to walk you through how we came to this conclusion.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11091 Our approach to crafting an application is fairly straightforward and follows a simple process. We review syndicated data from Stats Canada, BBM, Financial Post markets and economic information from the region. Then we visit the market, talking to both consumers and advertisers and, finally, we test the formats that our initial analysis suggested would work. Occasionally, however, as was in the case of Owen Sound, the first step in the analysis led us to test a single format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11092 The findings that led us to this direction were:
LISTNUM 1 \l 11093 First, there is a clear demographic skew in the market. Almost half of Owen Sound, 44 percent, is over the age of 45 years. If you go beyond into Meaford, 49.3 percent, and in Wiarton 53 percent is 45 years or more.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11094 Secondly, a review of the BBM data demonstrated there is a significant spill from other markets. Among the listening choices consumers have are many classic and gold‑based formats on one end of the demographic scale and several current hit formats on the other.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11095 Notably absent from both local radio and spill was any form of easy listening. An analysis of the audience profiles of the top stations showed a clear skew in the service to younger demos and a measurable decline in tuning among older demographics.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11096 Finally, our in‑market research with consumers and advertisers showed that the great enthusiasm was for a format that provided new programming and new music for the new mature market. Our proposal is for The Jewel, a new easy listening station, a format we pioneered. It will be unique in Owen Sound and because of the high level of local content unique among our ECI stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11097 The essence of the format is to play soft melodic music. Songs are selected by their sound and not by their hit status on the charts. Because we blend a variety of music genres from different eras, listeners can expect to hear the best of the best and enjoy a wide variety of selections.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11098 But new easy listening is neither nostalgia or oldies. Our format includes 40 percent new music. Listeners tell us this approach of blending old with new is both refreshing, different and exciting to listen to. Visualize or imagine Barbra Streisand singing The Way We Were from the seventies followed by Toni Braxton in the nineties and then Josh Groban and Dido from 2005, and then an instrumental by Jesse Cook, this followed by a Tony Bennett duet with Diana Krall or K.D. Lang. The sound is distinctive, the selections are timeless and the artists are consumer favourites.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11099 ECI has a proud tradition of exceeding minimum Canadian content requirements and The Jewel in Owen Sound will not be an exception to this. The new easy listening format has a rich array of Canadian talent to draw from. Canadian artists and their genre include Serena Ryder, Michael Bublé, Molly Johnson, Matt Dusk, Lhasa de Sala, Amy Sky, Mark Jordan and many more. This is why we can commit to 40 percent content over the broadcast week.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11100 Further, our format means that many artists can produce in the genre so the supply of current selections is significant and growing by the day.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11101 Who could have imagined years ago that The Great American Songbook would be recorded by a pop artist like Rod Stewart or that Cyndi Lauper would give fresh life to standards?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11102 And now I am going to ask Ted Silver to speak to the elements of The Jewel format and how they complement what is available in the market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11103 MR. SILVER: The music proposed for The Jewel is currently not played on any local station and our initial research show that approximately 80 percent of the music line vary, from which we select our music was not currently carried by local stations. Subsequent to the initial examination we supplied Strategic Inc. with tapes from the market and our logs from the closest proxy station we could find, The Jewel in Ottawa, and commissioned a separate duplication analysis. The results from this assessment demonstrated how clearly compatible our proposal is. The only station with any measurable duplication was CFOS and only 6 percent of music selections played in breakfast and drive on this station were played at some point during a full week of The Jewel in Ottawa.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11104 The incumbent FM stations in the market target generally the 25‑54 demographic. But on closer inspection, the two FMs actually garner most of their listening hours from the 25‑44 age group with their pop/rock leaning formats. The AM news talk station features some music but the limited selections are mostly rock and roll oldies during the day and nostalgia at night. Our analysis shows that the music in this timeframe is mostly rooted in the thirties, forties, fifties and the early sixties.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11105 By contrast, we will play 40 percent current music and we will play a minimum of 10 percent category 3 selections over the course of the broadcast week. We will also play 15 percent of our tracks from the instrumental category. This represents airplay for a group of artists who have been truly abandoned by most current formats and are deserving of a place in the radio spectrum.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11106 To round out our play list we will include 35 percent pop music, 25 percent soft A/C and 15 percent new and older standards.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11107 To put The Jewel sound fully into perspective, we can breakdown the distribution of tracks by era. In addition to playing the aforementioned 40 percent of music from the years 2000 to today, 27 percent will be from the eighties and nineties and 33 percent from before 1980.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11108 The Jewel will be eclectic and engaging and something that the 45‑plus demo of Owen Sound, Meaford and Wiarton enthusiastically told us they would listen to. Our Owen Sound station will demonstrate it is possible to have high quality programming that also showcases new talent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11109 Because of the recent resurgence in the format there has been an upswing in the number of artists creating in this format. For this reason and the under exposure of instrumental performers in Canadian radio overall, ECI can easily commit to dedicating 30 percent of our Canadian content to the new and emerging category. This means that fully 12 percent of our schedule will be new talent. We can accomplish this by playing more artists and including their recordings in all parts of a broadcast day.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11110 In addition to endorsing our proposed music format, respondents to the consumer survey indicated a high interest in news and, in particular, local news.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11111 I will now ask Gary Gamble to address the spoken word element of the application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11112 MR. GAMBLE: The news and spoken word element of The Jewel's broadcast week is an important and distinguishing element of our proposal.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11113 92 percent of respondents place a high importance of news content and in particular local news and weather. Owen Sound is the hub of an area including Meaford, Thornbury, Chatsworth, Markdale and Wiarton. Each of these communities has news and issues to cover and will have six people dedicated to gathering and presenting the news.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11114 The Jewel will provide news updated 13 times a day Monday through Friday and five times per day on the weekends. Our total news programming amounts to five hours and 22 minutes of headline news per week. We will also provide headline and weather updates and a number of comprehensive information features.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11115 Our community calendar will focus on local and regional events and activities while information on the markets and business will be covered by our business reports.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11116 Health Watch will include a summary of the latest findings in wellness and health advances.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11117 The Georgian Bay All Season Report will focus on seasonal conditions such as marine, golf, ski and trail updates.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11118 Our movie and book feature will allow listeners in Owen Sound and area to plan their leisure time. Movie releases will focus on what is coming into the Bruce Peninsula and what is also new on DVD. Our overall spoken‑word programming will comprise 16.5 hours per week, which constitutes 13.2 per cent of our program schedule.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11119 Owen Sound has been the hub of the Bruce Peninsula since the early nineteenth century. It is a place with a strong history, the home of Tom Thompson, Billy Bishop, Nellie McClung and the recent winner of the Giller Prize for Fiction, Elizabeth Hay. It is a place of the future with its Junior A hockey team, its schools, community college and its strong economy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11120 Our spoken word will celebrate this rich heritage and anchor our commitment to local reflection.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11121 MR. EVANOV: Sean Moreman will now take you through the various important CCD initiatives we have made as part of this application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11122 MR. MOREMAN: The Jewel has committed $700,000 to developing Canadian content in this application. In addition to the contribution to FACTOR, we will also contribute a further $557,200 over seven years.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11123 The Catalogue of Canadian Instrumental Music, an initiative we first proposed in our Ottawa application, is becoming a vital resource for instrumental artists. It is a place where they can post their music and provide access to others, including record producers, radio station programmers and event organizers. Feedback on the initiative has been extremely positive. CIRPA has dropped its own collection of this music in their online database and, instead, is now using the catalogue to collect artists and titles in this genre.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11124 The catalogue is much more than an online library. It is a promotional tool that was included in the recent trade mission to Japan and has showcased Canadian artists in London, New York and Germany. Notable Canadian artists such as Canadian Brass have began to upload music and promote the site to their fans.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11125 The Georgian Bay Symphony is an important institution based in Owen Sound. Given our commitment to instrumental music, supporting the symphony was a natural fit for The Jewel. Our investment will assist the musicians in the orchestra who wish to continue their careers as instrumental artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11126 ECI is a strong supporter of expanding access to the broadcasting system by people who, by reason of some disability, have difficulty obtaining that access. Consequently, The Jewel will make an annual contribution to the University of Toronto Adaptive Technology Centre to assist them in the training of captioners and description writers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11127 Every year for the past 32 years the Summerfolk festival has been held in Owen Sound. Artists such as Shirley Eikhard and Bruce Cockburn have performed at this festival. The venue continues to be an important opportunity for both established and new Canadian artists. The Jewel will support this local festival by contributing $10,000 annually.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11128 We will also contribute $14,600 annually for the duration of the licence to the Aboriginal Media Education Fund to assist on‑the‑job training, specialized education, mentoring and skills development in the area of audio production.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11129 MR. EVANOV: And now, Ky will share with you the results of our advertising survey.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11130 MS JOSEPH: Thank you. In conducting our market assessment my team of experienced sales staff spoke to literally hundreds of advertisers. The message they brought back was clear, consistent and supportive of our business plan. Owen Sound and the surrounding area needs a station that serves the 45 plus audience and provides an efficient way of reaching arguably the richest consumers in the Canadian population.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11131 Rather than paraphrase, I will read you some quotes we collected. "Having a different broadcaster would make radio more affordable for us." "We want to advertise with a medium that delivers results efficiently." Filed with our application are letters from many advertisers expressing similar levels of enthusiasm and support. Importantly, they indicate that we can develop new revenues. Our format will attract new advertisers because we offer something different. We are new to the market, which means advertisers will sample us and advertisers are currently using other media to reach our core demo.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11132 MR. EVANOV: We are the right choice for this market because, number one, we offer complimentary programming that is currently not available from either local radio or (inaudible)(@0424of1448) services which will result in the addition of a truly new consumer choice. Our format will serve the largest group in the population. Our commitment to news and spoken word ensures unparalleled local reflection and, because we represent a new voice in the market, we offer true diversity.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11133 Our CCD commitment is substantial with significant commitments to local initiatives, it is also the largest of any applicant before you. We will exceed the regulated Canadian content and commit 40 per cent of our schedule to promote Canadian artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11134 We will dedicate 30 per cent of our Canadian content to new and emerging artists This represents the highest commitment in these hearings and is one of the highest in the broadcast system.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11135 Now, I would like to introduce you to a new emerging artist who will perform a sample of the music that we play on The Jewel. His name is Brian Roman, and he has had a dream to sing and entertain, but he was always told the music he liked was too limited. Then came Michael Bublé, Rod Stewart, Barry Manilow with their easy‑listening recordings. And so he produced his first CD on his own and took it to numerous radio stations to get it aired. They all told him his CD is not in their demo.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11136 He performs on a regular basis across Ontario and we would like him to perform here today for you as part of our application to sample the sound of The Jewel.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11137 Brian Roman.
‑‑‑ Musical interlude / Intermède musical
‑‑‑ Applause / Applaudissements
LISTNUM 1 \l 11138 MR. EVANOV: We thank you for the opportunity of presenting our application and we look forward to the opportunity of answering any questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11139 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Evanov and to your colleagues. Thank you, Mr. Roman, it is not often we get live music and hard to live up to the old blue eyes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11140 Commissioner Menzies.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11141 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11142 To begin with, I have a couple of technical areas that I want to touch on in terms of your commitments. One is regarding the University of Toronto Adaptive Technologies Resource Centre. And it is noted here that the policy supports the eligibility of audio content initiatives. And as you have presented it, the U of T is committed to funding the training of "description writers and captioners."
LISTNUM 1 \l 11143 Can you help with that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11144 MR. EVANOV: I will ask Sean to respond to that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11145 MR. MOREMAN: Well, Commissioner, firstly, the description writers are to be read, it is for television programming that blind people are viewing, if you will. But they describe what is happening on screen, so that would qualify under the audio content requirement.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11146 The second aspect is for deaf people. And if we were going to take a narrow reading of the audio content rule, that would exclude a lot of people who have hearing difficulties or are hearing impaired. So we feel that a broader reading of subparagraph (5) of paragraph 108 should be read to include both the captioners as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11147 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay, thank you. If the Commission were to find that that didn't qualify, do you have alternate plans?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11148 MS MOREMAN: Yes, that particular funding would be directed to FACTOR.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11149 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay, thank you. Also, regarding the Catalogue of Instrumental Music, can you clarify for us on that how that, you know, to put in the vernacular, how that translates into a jingle in the jeans of the performers?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11150 MR. EVANOV: I will ask both Carmela and, the author of the catalogue, and Sean to respond to that. We will start with Sean.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11151 MR. MOREMAN: As Ted mentioned or alluded to in our presentation, instrumental music is a bit of a cottage industry and record production for instrumental artists is not broad stream and happens often times in people's basements. What the catalogue does is it allows them a broad‑based exposure, both geographically, as it is on the internet anyone around the world can access their works, as well as cross media.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11152 The catalogue is being directed towards both record producers, people in the broadcast industry, but as well as the film industry. As an example, the catalogue did have a booth at the Toronto International Film Festival where it received a number inquiries from the film industry who were looking to source instrumental music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11153 Further to that, the Department of Heritage took the catalogue with it on their junket to Japan for the trade mission that they had there. And CIRPA has also brought it with them to music shows in both Germany and will be going to the United Kingdom. So there is quite a bit of promotion of Canadian instrumental music that is happening as a result of the catalogue.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11154 So to answer your question most directly how does this add up to jingle in the pockets, well, it is because all of those people around the world in a variety of media, who are looking to source and use instrumental music, now have somewhere to go and find these people who otherwise didn't have an opportunity or a means to promote themselves.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11155 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay. I was looking at its website here. Is there going to be more?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11156 MS LAURIGNANO: If I could add to that, Commissioner. The catalogue is a work in progress. It was an initiative that was approved with our Ottawa application. And we are committed to it over the terms of our licence. And understanding that there has been a review, the new commercial policy has come out, and that has changed some definitions or some initiatives, we are aware of that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11157 We believe that the catalogue should qualify. Regardless, we believe that it is a good initiative. And when it was conceived and devised and planned it was so that it could be a standalone over the terms of that one licence. So while this would add to the catalogue in terms of adding more features and the development, it has enough resources there to be sustained for the full term of the licence.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11158 And it is now in the public domain and we are extremely happy to see how it is being used and what an instrument it has become both for the artists and the industry, as Sean mentioned. And we even envision the future with the catalogue, whether it qualifies as an initiative or not. But should this initiative not qualify, then we have plans to redirect that money for this particular application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11159 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay, where to?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11160 MS LAURIGNANO: And that would got to Summerfolk, and Sean can just speak to how we have made some preliminary inquiries into how it would be specifically directed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11161 MR. MOREMAN: Yes, that is correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11162 Before I talk about Summerfolk, though, we just want to say as well that the catalogue sampling has begun online so that people can, in fact, listen to the works that have been uploaded. And we are currently in the process of adding links to the artist‑specific sites.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11163 Following up on what Carmela said, we do have a commitment from Brenda Scott at the Georgian Bay Folk Society, that if they were to receive additional funds over and above what we had committed to them specifically, it would be used for their Artists in the Schools program. That programs sees musical artists going into the schools to encourage youth to take up music and to talk about their experiences.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11164 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you. Could you confirm, please, your understanding that, if licensed, your station will have to contribute a basic annual CCD contribution imposed by regulation based on the station's total annual revenues and in the amounts as set out in paragraph 16 of new radio policy public notice CRTC‑2006‑158?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11165 MR. EVANOV: Yes, we fully understand.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11166 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: And could you confirm your understanding that of this base annual amount no less than 60 per cent of the station's basic annual CCD contribution must be allocated to either FACTOR or MusicAction and the remaining amount, if any, may be directed to any eligible CCD initiatives at your discretion?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11167 MR. EVANOV: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11168 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11169 If the Commission decided to open up this market how many licences should Owen Sound handle, new licences?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11170 MR. EVANOV: Right now, there are three local stations, there are two outside stations that do very well in the market. The Blackburn stations, The Bull, that everyone has spoken about today, plus there is also CKNX, which is a Hot A/C, also a Blackburn station in the market. Collectively, they garner about a 20 share, which is considerable in the market. They may have an impact on retail, but they also have a definite impact on national dollars that come into then market and then flow directly out.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11171 With Bayshore, they have the Hot AC, the have a country, they have a news talk with oldies. And with the applicants today, the proposals are basically for rock and I think we are adding more rock to an area that already has considerable rock. And basically, I guess we believe there should be one applicant and it should be at the end of the market that is not served, which is the 45 plus demo.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11172 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay, thank you. How will your 100 hours a week of local programming breakdown? How is it divided up? How much is live to air, for instance?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11173 MR. EVANOV: All our programs are live with announcers, just the overnight show is not, that would be voice tracked. The minimum is 100, but we will probably exceed that and I think we put it in as a safety in case there is something along that we want to produce or do or be creative.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11174 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: How much of your programming do you anticipate being shared? I mean, you may have just answered that, but in terms of within your own company, is the overnight produced by your company as well?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11175 MR. EVANOV: It is produced by the local station in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11176 We are out to establish a local Owen Sound radio station with live local announcers, the spoken word will ensure that it is a very local station and it is not in anyway carried from another station or programs or traded.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11177 The only thing the stations will share will be the library that they can pick from, plus any resource material, such as we have Health Watch and whether it is mammograms, whether it is PSA, there will be resource material on those items. That can be passed to the station, but in the end Owen Sound will have its own program director and music director who will make various decisions in terms of tweaking the music or in terms of content that goes on air.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11178 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay. What other synergies do you expect to benefit from within your..?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11179 MR. EVANOV: The only synergies are engineering. Our library is a source, as I mentioned, resource material is a synergy, engineering and beyond that expertise and advice. We have people who have been with the radio station that know that we are standalone in a number of markets and we will need that expertise in Owen Sound, obviously, with five stations there. But that is the only thing, there is no other.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11180 MS LAURIGNANO: There might be some synergies from time to time in the news department, because each of our stations, as Bill mentioned, is a locally‑run station with its own staff, whether in Halifax or Ottawa or Hawkesbury soon. Each station has its own news department. So what happens is our news directors come together through company policy and on designated times of the year to get to know each other so they can pick‑up the phone and see if something is happening that they can share.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11181 A recent example is you heard about the no‑smoking ban in Wolfville, Nova Scotia. So Shane Wilson, who is our news director there happened to have somebody who was in the station doing something and he called the Orangeville station and spoke with the news director there and they were able to feed, you know, the interview from there to that studio there. And we have used those kinds of synergies in the past very very well. But ultimately, it is always the local news director or the program director who decides what goes on the air or not.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11182 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: And could you, just continuing in that vein, just give me a fuller understanding of your news operation in that sense? I have read it as news updates and I am curious to know whether this is enterprise reporting or, you know, rip 'n' reading or somewhere in between?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11183 MR. EVANOV: Well, let us go right to the news director, Gary Gamble.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11184 Gary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11185 MR. GAMBLE: I will give you a thumbnail sketch of our news, how we are proposing to do it. News alone is 5.4 hours per week. That is based on mornings and afternoons, five minutes of headline news at the top of the hours, both mornings and afternoons, and 90‑second updates at the bottom of the hour during drive periods, 10 times on the weekends also.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11186 Those newscasts are broken down 50 per cent local and 30 per cent regional or provincial and then 20 per cent national or international. That 5.4 hours encompasses 4.36 per cent of our total spoken word, which is 13.2 per cent overall. This now, is outside of what the announcers are talking about when it comes to surveillance, weather updates, that sort of thing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11187 We also have allotted for what we call announcer talk alone, another 7 hours per week of that. If you include in that also our traffic features which covers another 2.62 hours, which is four per hour during the drive periods also and on Friday and Sunday evenings for cottage country travellers, that is factored into that also. Then we also consider our features news‑based. A lot of those, for example, business reports, we are letting people know what is going on.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11188 First of all, what is happening in Owen Sound, in the area, if there is layoffs or business material that listeners need to know about, it will be included in there. If there is something national that has to be included in that business report, of course, it will be included in there. Health watch is another feature that we are going to be running, it would run once per day, seven days a week.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11189 And in that particular area of Owen Sound alone, right now a top news story that we would cover in the news and also in that health watch program is the doctor shortage, which is a huge issue there right now, so we would cover that there. The Owen Sound Hospital is having an isotope shortage as of yesterday, so that sort of thing we would cover in the newscasts, but also more in‑depth in that health watch aspect of the news.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11190 We also cover an all‑season report as another feature that is news‑based but also letting people know what is going on around the Owen Sound area. It is a beautiful area, skiing, golfing. It is just beautiful up there. So once a day, seven days a week, we would do that based on the season.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11191 The movie and book report runs three times over the course of a week, letting people know about new releases. If there is something specific to the Owen Sound area, an author has something that should be included, we will make sure that that is in, along with DVD releases and that sort of a thing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11192 13.2 percent of what I just told you then covers our total spoken‑word commitment or 16.7 hours per week based on 126 hours.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11193 It is also not a rip‑and‑read type news operation. We have six people who will cover that news department. Two of those are full‑time covering morning and afternoon. Middays and the weekends are covered by also a few part‑time reporters.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11194 And to make sure we have got it all covered on the outside of Owen Sound, in Georgian Bay and the Bruce area we have two stringers reporting back to the newsroom to fill in any other news that is relevant and has to be reported.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11195 We also employ a number of interns. We put a nice intern package together in the Newmarket area that we are quite proud of. We provide training and mentoring and in return for that use the services of interns based on 100 hours per week.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11196 For example, from Georgian College we would bring their students on board to give them a good grasp of what a newsroom is working but it is not something we want to consider cheap labour. It is to use their resources and hopefully teach them what a proper broadcast news outlet is and how it would run and services and that sort of thing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11197 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay, thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11198 In your overview of the health of the market, you pointed to the presence of big box retailers in the area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11199 I am curious to know: Do big box retailers stimulate advertising or do they depress it, and if they do stimulate it, how so?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11200 MR. EVANOV: They definitely stimulate it but I will ask Ky, our V‑P Sales, to speak to that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11201 MS JOSEPH: Well, that is a question that a lot of people have asked and I think that Mr. Evanov is right, I think that it stimulates it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11202 I think that the strong local retailers that are in the market, that have been entrenched in the market for a long time, have the ability to sustain the bigger box stores.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11203 I also think that a lot of the local retailers have gone into more of a niche market, so to speak, and I can personally speak on ‑‑ as part of devising revenue for this particular business plan, we took 12 professional salespeople into the market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11204 We devised three separate teams of four individuals and we went into, first of all, Owen Sound, the west side, the downtown core and then Heritage Place Shopping Centre, which is east of the city.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11205 We each conducted what we call our street‑level marketing model which includes playing a sample CD of what the station would sound like so the advertisers can get a really, really good understanding of what the station would sound like. We also provided them with literature.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11206 We really dug deep and spoke to them to find out who they are currently advertising with and what their challenges are in the marketplace. In fact, their challenges, not one out of 123 retailers said to us that their challenges are big box stores.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11207 As a matter of fact, what they said was that there was ‑‑ the majority of them ‑‑ that there was no real outlet for them to advertise efficiently in order to generate the kind of business that they needed to sustain.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11208 Also, I would like to throw this to Debra, our researcher, who actually did a study on the economy of the marketplace.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11209 MS McLAUGHLIN: It is true that all big box stores do not spend but the list we provided you in the summary actually contained stores that do spend locally. Canadian Tire, for example, typically has a budget on the local level, as does Zellers and several others.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11210 But the importance of big box stores and why you draw attention to them is because they are able to draw a larger clientele from outside the area because these stores have well‑established brands with or without advertising. Their flyers go well beyond the area that they are located to draw people in.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11211 So what it does is it attracts other advertisers in the market to advertise because they know if these people are coming into the market to go to Home Depot, for example, maybe they would like to eat out or maybe they would like to go to a unique clothing or hardware store or whatever.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11212 But it is a huge draw to that market and what it does is it stimulates other advertisers to participate, sometimes to compete but also just to simply take advantage of those people coming into the market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11213 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay. While I have got you on the button there, you did a survey of 600 people; is that correct?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11214 MS McLAUGHLIN: Yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11215 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Can you tell me the margin of error on 600 people?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11216 MS McLAUGHLIN: We don't calculate margin of error on the full sample, we calculate it on the format. I just want to make that point because in this case we only measured one format for that very reason, so we could have a fairly accurate survey. It is plus or minus 2 percent on this.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11217 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay. I am interested in the economics of that demographic group that you have targeted. As was indicated, it is the richest segment of the marketplace. It is also known to be the segment of the marketplace that already has stuff in terms of cars or houses or fridges or stoves or consumer items.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11218 Where do you see them being most drawn to goods? I mean which forms of advertising are going to be the most attractive to them to stimulate them to actually buy and is there enough in that market for you?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11219 MS McLAUGHLIN: Well that is ‑‑ you have asked the question that media planners have asked since they got into this business. I was a media planner and what we had to do was try to figure out who was using what media in what market and try to draw from a very local perspective some sort of national or regional plan.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11220 The fact of the matter is that each media has its own opportunities and advantages for an advertiser and the best plans ‑‑ and I think most people would agree with this ‑‑ don't involve a single media, they involve a combination.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11221 In the case of radio it is portable, it goes wherever they go, it is the perfect companion in the car, at home it is background but the ads still get through. I think people are mistaken that they think you have to hear an ad consciously for it to work. I go to a store and try and explain why you pick one brand over another. That ad is working at another level. So radio is recognized as being highly effective.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11222 I think there is an awful lot of advertisers who target particularly 55+ by newspaper. What you try to do is not say newspaper doesn't work. What you say is: If you add radio advertising to your newspaper buy, you have a more effective campaign because you have something that they can read and process and when they are out close to their purchasing decision it reminds them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11223 So in that sense, I don't think you can identify a single medium for this group or any of them but if I was talking about where the money would come from, I think an awful lot would come, in other media, from newspaper.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11224 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: I see.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11225 MR. EVANOV: May I ask: Were you asking specifically about the age of the market in terms of buying power?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11226 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: The age of the market. I mean I understand that ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 11227 MR. EVANOV: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11228 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: I am not being contentious ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 11229 MR. EVANOV: No, no.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11230 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: ‑‑ that they have lots of money, it is just they usually have lots ‑‑ it is commonly felt within the advertising buying market that one of the reasons they have lots of money is they are not buying anything anymore.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11231 MR. EVANOV: Yes. Well, I would like to give you an example. I will start and then Ky will come in there.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11232 Forty‑five to 65 is no longer considered old. It used to be.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11233 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Oh! Good. That is good news for all of us here, especially me.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11234 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Speak for yourself.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 11235 MR. EVANOV: When we think in terms of ‑‑ whether it is Paul McCartney, Mick Jagger or Bill Evanov, we are in an age demo that may be closer to the upper end of this but we don't stop buying. We buy cars every two or three years. We buy suits to come to CRTC hearings.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 11236 MR. EVANOV: We are always buying and I don't think you stop buying. I think the perception that you stop buying is incorrect and I think you buy better things, more quality things. You spend more money on maybe lesser items. Years ago you bought the old Chevrolet or you bought the Pontiac and now maybe you are moving to the Oldsmobile, the Buick, the Cadillac or the Jaguar or the BMW, depending on your income.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11237 I will let Ky respond more to that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11238 MS LAURIGNANO: I just have one thing to add. Being somewhere in that demo, without revealing my real age, now I don't buy things I need, I buy things I like because I can afford them.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 11239 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay. I think ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 11240 MS JOSEPH: But actually ‑‑ oh! I am sorry.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11241 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: No, go ahead, please.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11242 MS JOSEPH: I was just going to say too, to just be a little bit more factual to your question, after speaking with over 100 advertisers or over 100 business people who want to advertise to that demographic, they have responded to that demographic in that community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11243 We are very familiar with the 45‑64 demographic and so we have devised categories that this particular demographic is interested in purchasing. They include automotive, home improvements, home furnishings and decor, travel, leisure is a huge category, health services, private health services, naturopathy, housing ‑‑ many of them have more than one home ‑‑ and financial services and investments. Those are only to name a few.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11244 So if I hear one more time that my parents are spending my inheritance ‑‑
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 11245 MS JOSEPH: It is amazing, it really is. As Carmela mentioned, it is not necessarily what they want but what they need. It is a fact and what we are looking to do is respond to the business communities in that marketplace.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11246 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: And do you have commitments from those advertisers?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11247 MS JOSEPH: Yes, we do.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11248 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Good!
LISTNUM 1 \l 11249 MR. EVANOV: We submitted with our application, I think, almost 100 letters from the business retailers in the Owen Sound area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11250 MS JOSEPH: And actually I just want to add to that as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11251 Of those people that gave us support letters in that community, there were so many advertisers who didn't have a fax or e‑mail, which is true, so it was impossible for us to go back and then get letters of support. So I would venture to say that it would be up around the 150 letters had they had the means to get us those letters.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11252 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: I know you have spoken to this a little bit and done some research on this but I just want to give you the opportunity to sort of address this one point again.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11253 Your format is markedly different from some of the other formats we have heard described. In some of them when I heard the description of the Owen Sound area, in the summertime, cottage country, rock and roll, I kept thinking of a beer commercial.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 11254 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Yours gives a different sort of image of Owen Sound in terms of its attractiveness. I am not saying it is not fun and it isn't about fun but you seem to have discovered something that these other fellows haven't.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11255 How did you come to that and how do you explain the difference?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11256 MR. EVANOV: The difference between the formats? I guess if I back up a little bit, I grew up in the days of rock. I mean when I was a teenager I was buying ‑‑ I was going to say CDs but it was vinyl then and it was rock and roll initially and then rock.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11257 But I think as you go through life and you become a little more mature or as you get older, you get to appreciate a different type of music as well. I still like rock but I have grown to appreciate other kinds of music too.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11258 So today I can listen to El Divo, I can listen to Bocelli, I can listen to Nana Mouskouri. I can listen to so many artists that in my younger years I never would have dreamt that I would listen to them. And as life went on, I found Frank Sinatra, the music of Sinatra and Tony Bennett.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11259 I think we walk through life and the appreciation for music elevates and we get exposed to greater music beyond what we did when we were young and teenagers. There is nothing wrong with rock. It is great and I still like good rock but I also like the softer sound of certain music as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11260 So we looked at the Owen Sound market. We did an economic study, we did a demand study and a format study and they came back very positive. We looked at the demographics, the information on the market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11261 When you have a market that almost 50 percent of the population is 45+ then you have to think in terms of a broader type of music than maybe that has been repeated. I would think that in the past many people go for the rock format because that is where the money has been for many, many years and I think Blackburn has discovered that by being number one 25‑54 or 25‑44.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11262 Carmela, maybe you want to add to this.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11263 MS LAURIGNANO: I was just going to add, yes, that one of the considerations is, in putting it together you have to look at the landscape, which we did, and for all intents and purposes it doesn't matter really where the stick is, the fact is that Owen Sound is being served with rock and roll. It is a number one station in the market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11264 So what could we do to add diversity to it and what could we do to make sure that we had a sustainable business plan, one that we could carve for ourselves without extreme impact on the existing broadcaster or the existing services because you have to treat that as an incumbent?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11265 As I say, it doesn't matter where the stick is, it is the fact that it is being served.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11266 So when we looked at the age of the population, you know, that it is way over the national and provincial, when we looked at the findings of the research and when we looked at, for example, what we could offer that is different, right now, we will skew female more than male. All the other applicants, rock and roll, as you know, rock tends to skew male and when we looked at all the players, there is a heavy skew for male. So we intend to attract a larger female audience. So it just made sense.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11267 So based on all those factors we developed a business plan and from there we went to the advertisers and they said yes, they would support it. There is a lot of money for this demo. The 45‑64 year old demographic is pretty good coin in your jeans, as you said. I forgot exactly what you said.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11268 So yes, the possibility for us made a lot of sense and it fit. The business plan fits. It allowed us to put back in the system, including a considerable investment in the CCD initiatives, which, as you know, is quite considerable and the highest here.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11269 We could introduce new music in the format as well up to the level of 12 percent for the whole broadcast week.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11270 I think Ted may have something to add.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11271 MR. SILVER: Well, I just wanted to ‑‑ more from purely a programming perspective. When you look at the Owen Sound market, you have a rock station. Regardless of where it is from, it looks to be pretty successful if it is number one in adults 25‑54. It could be coming from Venus, it seems to be the rock station in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11272 You have the other stations who more or less all run after basically the same demographic and you see that not only in Owen Sound but virtually in most other markets across North America.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11273 What really is missing in this market in terms of not only the demographic, although the demographic in Owen Sound tends to be a little bit older than perhaps the national average, there is no soft music format in that market. There is in virtually every other market, including the city that we are in right now and most other cities in Canada.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11274 That is absent. These people are not being served. A lot of these people are either listening to other radio stations for other reasons and may not be totally satisfied but listen because they get the local news or the traffic or whatever it is but may not be totally satisfied. It is a second choice sort of thing or out‑of‑market or satellite or iPod or internet or not listening at all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11275 It is an opportunity for us to service these people who are not being satisfied in the market with a soft format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11276 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11277 Earlier today, Blackburn mentioned that they estimated there was the potential for about $900,000 in growth of new advertising.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11278 In your business model, potential new source you have $105,000 increase in budgets of existing radio advertisers and $105,000 in new advertisers. That is about roughly a $700,000 difference.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11279 Would you care to comment on that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11280 MR. EVANOV: I will ask Ky to comment.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11281 But when we did the application, we don't know the actual numbers of the local station or the actual numbers even of the Blackburn station. So we had to look at the market itself, the retail sales and all the other factors and come up with a budget.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11282 Ky.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11283 MS JOSEPH: As I mentioned before, we do know that the market is healthy. We do know that the market can not only sustain another radio station but that needs another radio station based on the advertiser demand study that we did.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11284 $700,000 will meet our business plan. We have also factored in 14 percent market growth over the term of the licence, which is, albeit, 2 percent but we have still factored that in. But whether that actually happens or not, it is not going to impact our business plan. We will still be able to be profitable.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11285 And again, there are several factors that we look at which we believe to be very realistic and conservative for our business plan.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11286 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay. Thank you for your patience and I will turn things back over to the Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11287 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11288 I just have a couple of follow‑up questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11289 A hundred hours live to air, 26 hours voice‑tracked?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11290 MS LAURIGNANO: What we have said is that we commit to a minimum of 100 and we have no plans now to do anything but the 126. The 120 is over the licence term should we rely on it or from the get‑go and forever, hopefully, we intend to do local 100 percent unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11291 THE CHAIRPERSON: So right now there are no plans to do syndicated programming, for example?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11292 MS LAURIGNANO: No plans.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11293 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Thank you for that clarification.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11294 You did say in your application that 80 percent is not duplicated, 80 percent of the proposed playlist is not currently duplicated in the market, and in your supplementary brief you say that you will play 40 percent current music.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11295 That 40 percent of current music also is not duplicated in the market? In other words, I won't hear artists on this station that, say, are currently being played on CIXK?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11296 MR. EVANOV: If it is new, how can we know? In other words, if it is ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 11297 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, it is current, not ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 11298 MR. EVANOV: Okay, but current ‑‑ there might be some duplication. I think every radio station duplicates.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11299 Ours would be minimal because we produce a melodic soft sound. We will play new and emerging artists like the one you heard today but there are many other artists that we are also playing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11300 I will ask Ted to comment further.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11301 MR. SILVER: I would say that Mix 106, CIXK, a Hot AC which targets 25‑34, is really the core of that and so it leans that way, to a much younger, and we are really at the opposite end of the same stick in that they are both female.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11302 As Bill says, there may be a little, a minor amount of duplication but it is very unlikely that it would be to any great degree whatsoever. It is a totally different artist. What makes sense ‑‑ you know, if Lionel Ritchie comes out with a new single today, we would probably play it. They probably wouldn't. It just doesn't fit the demographic and so we would be looking to serve our core audience, which is far removed from theirs.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11303 THE CHAIRPERSON: Right. And by the same token, Toni Braxton's current hit might play on both stations but ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 11304 MR. SILVER: It depends on the song too. I mean you can't really go by artist, it is really by title. Toni Braxton has songs that we wouldn't touch and they would and there are others that we play that they wouldn't touch.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11305 THE CHAIRPERSON: And if you launch with Marc Jordan's "When Rita Took the A‑Train," that would be a good thing?
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 11306 MR. SILVER: Is that a request?
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 11307 THE CHAIRPERSON: I get my pitches in any way I can.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11308 I am now reverting back to my grade 12 math again and talking about spoken‑word programming. The total is 16 ‑‑ did I hear it correctly, 16.7 hours?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11309 MR. GAMBLE: 16.7 hours, that is correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11310 THE CHAIRPERSON: Of which 5.4 hours are news?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11311 MR. GAMBLE: Strictly news, 5.4.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11312 THE CHAIRPERSON: Strictly news, not including surveillance material?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11313 MR. GAMBLE: Not including surveillance, not including traffic reports or features. That is outside of the 5.4 hours strictly news.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11314 THE CHAIRPERSON: And that is included in the 7 hours of announcer talk; is that correct?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11315 MR. GAMBLE: That is correct, yes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11316 THE CHAIRPERSON: Of the 5.4 hours of news ‑‑ again, if you have covered this, I apologize ‑‑ how much is local?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11317 MR. GAMBLE: Fifty percent of newscasts are local. Thirty percent is regional or provincial ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 11318 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11319 MR. GAMBLE: ‑‑ and 20 percent would be national or international.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11320 THE CHAIRPERSON: And the balance therefore ‑‑ so we have got 12.4 hours of news and announcer talk?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11321 MR. GAMBLE: Correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11322 THE CHAIRPERSON: The balance would be made up of the other programming features that you detailed in your supplementary brief?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11323 MR. GAMBLE: That is correct. Features, just to be specific, are 1.6 hours.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11324 I will just run it down for you once again. News only is 5.4 ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 11325 THE CHAIRPERSON: Right.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11326 MR. GAMBLE: ‑‑ traffic, 2.6; features, 1.6; and announcer talk/surveillance would be 7 hours.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11327 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Thank you for that clarification.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11328 You did say that you don't see having a major impact on the incumbent in the market. Yet, your advertising projections say that 35 percent of your advertising revenues will come from existing radio stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11329 Is that all from the incumbent because I think you ‑‑ it is separate, your out‑of‑market tuning revenue is separate from that 35 percent.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11330 MR. EVANOV: I will let Ky answer this one.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11331 MS JOSEPH: Just to clarify, we included the two Wingham stations, particularly CIBU, as part of impacts on incumbents, because, the fact of the matter is, BBM includes them as being rated for Owen Sound central, as well as CKNX FM. They are number one, 25 to 54.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11332 What is defined as "local"?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11333 If you asked an advertiser or a listener, they would say, for example, that The Bull would be local to them, as would advertisers, which we found out.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11334 So we have included the 35 percent, or $245,000, in our case, to be coming from, really, spread over five radio stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11335 THE CHAIRPERSON: Do you have a percentage that is based solely on the Bayshore stations?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11336 MS JOSEPH: We don't, although, to the best of our estimates, we believe that anywhere between 5 and 10 percent would come from Blackburn. Therefore, the remainder would come from Bayshore.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11337 And because they sell their cluster, in many cases, together, as a buy, we don't know internally how they allocate their revenues, so it is really hard to ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 11338 We really have to estimate that it would be shared over the three stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11339 THE CHAIRPERSON: Ms Joseph, one of the reasons you come to CRTC hearings is that, hopefully, you won't have to depend on your parents' inheritance.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 11340 MS JOSEPH: I hope not.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11341 THE CHAIRPERSON: I have one final question. You mentioned in your oral presentation that 15 percent of your tracks are from the instrumental category.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11342 If you saw me frantically searching my laptop, it is because I was looking for a reference to that 15 percent of instrumental music in your application.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11343 If it is there ‑‑ and I didn't find it ‑‑ I apologize; and if it is, point me to it. Or, is this something new that you are proposing in terms of your playlist?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11344 MS LAURIGNANO: No, that is not declared in the application, nor is any music percentage declared in the application at all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11345 It was described as the blending in the genre music that was played throughout the application, and it is one of the elements that has been identified throughout. But at no time did we do that, nor were we asked to.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11346 THE CHAIRPERSON: Right. And since you did include it in your oral presentation, which typically includes the most salient points of your application ‑‑ you know what my question is ‑‑ would you accept that, as a minimum, 15 percent of your musical selections will be instrumental?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11347 MS LAURIGNANO: We would be glad and happy and honoured to do that.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 11348 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11349 Legal counsel?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11350 MS SMITH: I don't have any questions. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11351 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11352 Mr. Evanov, you have your two minutes for the final word.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11353 MR. EVANOV: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11354 To repeat slightly, we believe that we are the right choice for this market, for all of the information we have provided.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11355 We offer programming that is currently not available from either local radio or spill services, which will result in the addition of a truly new consumer choice.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11356 We have contributed to this hearing process an economic study of Owen Sound, and a demand study, prepared by a nationally respected research firm, Strategic Inc.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11357 Our format will serve the largest group of the population.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11358 Our commitment to news and spoken word ensures unparalleled local reflection, and because we represent a new voice in the market, we offer true diversity.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11359 Our programming skews female, which provides further diversity in the Owen Sound radio market, and contrasts us from our competitors in this process.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11360 Our CCD commitment is substantial, with significant commitments to local initiatives.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11361 We will exceed the regulated Canadian content and commit 40 percent of our schedule to promoting Canadian artists.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11362 We will employ 18 persons at our radio station in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11363 And what has become very important most recently, we will dedicate 30 percent of our Canadian content to new and emerging artists. This represents the highest commitment in these hearings.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11364 Thank you, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11365 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mr. Evanov, Ms Laurignano, and your colleagues.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11366 Madam Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11367 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11368 This completes Phase I. We have now reached Phase II, in which applicants appear in the same order to intervene on competing applications, if they wish.
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 11369 THE SECRETARY: For the record, 2079966 Ontario Limited, Blackburn Radio Inc., and Evanov Communications have indicated that they would not appear in Phase II. Therefore, I would invite Larche Communications to come forward if they wish to participate in this phase.
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 11370 THE SECRETARY: For the record, Larche Communications Inc. has also advised us that they would not appear in this phase.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11371 Thank you, Madam Chair, this concludes Phase II.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11372 THE CHAIRPERSON: Continue.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11373 THE SECRETARY: Could I take one minute, please, Madam Chair?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11374 THE CHAIRPERSON: Let's take five.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11375 THE SECRETARY: Thank you.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1545 / Suspension à 1545
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1550 / Reprise à 1550
LISTNUM 1 \l 11376 THE SECRETARY: We will now proceed with Phase III, in which intervenors appear in the order set out in the agenda to present their intervention.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11377 For the record, I would like to mention that the intervenor Walkerton and District Health Services Foundation has submitted an intervention in support of the Blackburn Owen Sound application and did ask to appear. Therefore, they will be appearing second in this phase.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11378 I would now ask Jamie Pettit to present his intervention.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11379 Mr. Pettit, you have 10 minutes for your intervention.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 11380 MR. PETTIT: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11381 Good afternoon, Commissioners. I have requested to be here today as an intervenor in support of the application by Evanov Communications Incorporated for a radio licence to serve the Greater Owen Sound and Georgian Bay area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11382 As a former program and music director who worked for a period of four years in the aforementioned market, I must say that I was pleasantly surprised to learn of the interest expressed by all of the broadcast companies submitting proposals.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11383 After carefully reviewing all of the applications, I strongly feel that the proposed Jewel format is the one best suited to our region, in that it is the only one offering something different from what we already have, especially in the realm of musical variety.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11384 I can confidently say that the proposed music programming is unlike any other in the market at this time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11385 During the time when I was programming music in the Owen Sound and surrounding market, 88.5 in Newmarket was an Evanov station that I would often keep my ear on for musical comparison and contrast.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11386 Though there were many interesting artists playing on 88.5 that were nowhere to be found on local radio playlists, the greatest difference lay in the selection of songs.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11387 The proposed Jewel application does not stray too far from 88.5, in that there is minimal duplication when compared to other stations in the Owen Sound and surrounding market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11388 When it comes to the signature contemporary artists that many stations play, The Jewel format focuses on rotating some of the less conventional songbooks by these artists, rather than what would be their more obvious contemporary hits.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11389 For example, while an adult contemporary station will play an uptempo Cyndi Lauper song from the 1980s, The Jewel will prefer to focus on selections from one of Lauper's recent tribute albums to the crooners and easy‑listening legends of the past.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11390 Likewise, while an oldies format will incorporate good‑time rock'n'roll vibes from the British Invasion and early soul and R&B, The Jewel will gear its sound more to the softer side of the artists in these genres.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11391 It is this unique blend of carefully selected songs from various genres and eras that creates a sound and character all its own.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11392 Unlike many other formats, it is one based primarily on flow, rather than songs from a defined time period.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11393 I would like to speak to the fact that The Jewel is targeting the 45‑plus demographic. It is important to note that the proposed format has proven to be successful in other much larger markets, such as Ottawa and Toronto's CMA, where a much greater youth population makes it more competitive for stations catering to a more mature demo.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11394 I can personally say that I have met many 45‑plus‑year‑olds in our local area who are well aware of The Jewel in Toronto and absolutely love its format.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11395 As I mentioned earlier, radio broadcasting is my background, in that I have worked at stations in four different provinces and just as many formats. However, good broadcasting sense aside, I support this application for another series of reasons.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11396 The position I now hold deals mainly with economic development, business and tourism. Through this line of work, I also currently sit on the Grey Bruce Regional Economic Development Committee with other representatives from various local communities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11397 One of the major topics that is being addressed regionally right now is the massive development happening east of us in Simcoe County. Many retirees from larger centres, particularly the GTA, are moving next door with a fair amount of disposable income. The current spillover from this influx and the expectation that it will inevitably spread to our region speaks a lot to the fact that the mature demographic is a very significant one in our area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11398 At the moment, there is no local FM service available to cater to this important and extremely vast demo. A large portion of this audience must currently tune to out‑of‑market FM frequencies, as the formats offered locally on FM are the younger‑driven adult contemporary, rock and country brands.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11399 Up until now, at least as long as I have resided in the Owen Sound and surrounding area, no attempts have been made to better serve this important demo in the way of an FM application or significant modifications to existing signals.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11400 From the perspective of someone who works closely with businesses, the concept of an additional radio station for the Owen Sound and surrounding area can only be seen as a benefit to the business community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11401 A significant benefit, in my view, is the opportunity of more advertising alternatives. The introduction of more competitive advertising rates in the market would inevitably make radio advertising more affordable, so that businesses could either spend more or spend for the first time.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11402 Some of the smaller businesses that have not been able to compete with big buck advertisers would have a chance to get their message out through radio and, consequently, increase their store traffic and sales.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11403 More diversity in radio advertising options might also bring forth some new and rekindled interest in the radio medium for local businesses. Basically, more options would translate into more fairness in terms of rates.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11404 A new radio licence in our market should also, inevitably, bring out the best when it comes to the radio products currently available.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11405 Having resided in several other Canadian communities, ranging from 15,000 to more than a million people, I have repeatedly witnessed the fact that increased competition makes for great radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11406 Existing services in the Owen Sound and surrounding area would inevitably fight harder to have the best promotions, contests, visibility in the community, and news coverage.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11407 This would ultimately result in better radio for current and potential listeners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11408 I have heard it stated before that it is the public who owns the airwaves. Therefore, the public should be able to find choices on the dial that suit its tastes, instead of listening to a minimal number of options because that is all there is and all that has ever been.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11409 The importance, renown and credibility that the local market can gain through the arrival of a new media outlet can only serve to benefit local businesses and the region as a whole. The Owen Sound and surrounding area has been perceived as a monopolized, one‑company dominated market for the longest time. To have a growing, reputable and successful company like the Evanov Radio Group determine through their extensive research that this market would support their proposed radio format demonstrates a definite potential for growth.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11410 The evidence can be seen in other Evanov properties. This is not a company that simply sets up shop anywhere. Having a reputable company such as the Evanov Radio Group express interest in our region is a morale booster for the area, not only business‑wise, but from the standpoint of community pride as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11411 The approval of such a licence would contribute to a stronger sense of importance locally, as well as inject confidence in the community and local economy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11412 I would be remiss if I did not draw attention to another extremely appealing element in the application by the Evanov Radio Group. The interest this company has shown in the communities surrounding Owen Sound is commendable, to say the least.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11413 Meford and Thornbury, for instance, are smaller nearby villages that have become increasingly popular with retirees. These communities have been actively progressing, not only in terms of tourism, but also in the realm of arts and culture.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11414 A precious hidden treasure in our area is the Meford Hall Arts and Cultural Centre. This historic facility was recently given a multi‑million dollar facelift, and has since been attempting to gain recognition as the premier facility in the region for year‑round performing arts and entertainment.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11415 This past summer, the first ever Meford International Film Festival was held at Meford Hall and became a surprise smash success.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11416 Meford is a community that continues to struggle in the face of divided politics, negative publicity in the media, and controversy. Some of this stems from the growing pains that Meford Hall has had to endure along the way.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11417 I am happy to say that the Evanov Radio Group has already been in talks with Meford Hall management about partnerships to better market the facility, should the application for The Jewel be approved.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11418 The potential for Meford Hall and the effect it would have on local businesses is limitless. From the vantage point of someone who works in Meford daily, I cannot even begin to describe to you the turnaround effect that positive news stories would have on the area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11419 I can only dream of the even greater impact the Meford International Film Festival, Jazz Festival and other such events would have had with a station like The Jewel behind them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11420 This past Canada Day I was surprised to see an Evanov station cruiser actually make an appearance at one of the local festivities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11421 From what I have researched about Evanov stations in other markets, this company is actively ingrained in the communities it serves. This is an encouraging ray of light in an industry that is too often criticized for larger broadcast chains that apply a big‑city franchise approach to smaller communities, with minimal hands‑on local involvement.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11422 The Evanov Radio Group seems to be particularly supportive of local service clubs in the communities it serves.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11423 I look forward to the prospect of an additional news voice and perspective for Owen Sound and its surrounding communities. I was very pleased to learn that the Evanov Radio Group intends to implement news gathering facilities in some of the smaller areas. This demonstrates a genuine local commitment to the area and sense of pride to be competitive.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11424 For these reasons, I urge you to approve the application by Evanov Communications Incorporated and bring radio broadcasting to an exciting new level in the Greater Owen Sound and Georgian Bay area. We are overdue and ready for it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11425 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11426 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Pettit, for your intervention.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11427 You bring quite a unique perspective to these proceedings, because you work in the area, you used to work in radio, and now, with what you are currently doing, you can, hopefully, enlighten us on what is occurring in the area in terms of growth, and specifically for this demographic group.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11428 As you know, advertisers aren't very keen on targeting this group. There are a number of companies that are trying to change that mentality of advertisers. They all go after 25 to 54.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11429 So what activities have you seen in the area that are going to incent advertisers to say, "We really need to look at this 45‑plus group, and, in particular, at this radio station"?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11430 MR. PETTIT: As I referred to earlier, one of the things that we have addressed in terms of economic development is the growth that is happening in Simcoe County, and it sort of seems to be moving down the highway, and there is great anticipation that eventually, and inevitably, it will spread to our area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11431 So there is definitely, in terms of local festivals, and also in terms of ‑‑ what Bill referred to earlier, the more mature person nowadays ‑‑ it is not the same perception as it was even 10 or 20 years ago. There seem to be more activities in terms of when you talk about local skiing and activities like that, and the trails, and all of those types of attributes that our area has. I think that a lot of the older demographic are taking a much greater interest in that nowadays. They are keeping fit. They are joining ski clubs. They have that disposable income.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11432 We see a difference, also, in some of the businesses that are starting to cater to that demographic.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11433 THE CHAIRPERSON: What are some of those businesses that cater to that older demographic which have become part of the community?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11434 MR. PETTIT: Definitely some of the ski shops in the Blue Mountain area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11435 Antiquing is something that has sort of become a lot more popular in our area. We have noticed in Meford, in particular, that some of the businesses there are catering more to that type of thing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11436 THE CHAIRPERSON: To your knowledge, these businesses aren't currently advertising on radio in Owen Sound?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11437 MR. PETTIT: Actually, I can't say for sure that they are advertising on radio, but I know for a fact, through Evanov's research, that they approached businesses such as this. But whether or not they are spending on local radio, I can't speak for them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11438 THE CHAIRPERSON: All right. Thank you. Like I said, you do offer a unique perspective.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11439 Do my colleagues have any further questions?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11440 Thank you very much, Mr. Pettit.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11441 MR. PETTIT: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11442 THE CHAIRPERSON: Madam Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11443 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11444 I would now call Walkerton and District Health Services Foundation to come to the presentation table.
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 11445 THE CHAIRPERSON: Sit up front. Come on, people!
LISTNUM 1 \l 11446 Don't leave this guy by himself, sit up front.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 11447 THE CHAIRPERSON: They are not moving. I'm sorry, I tried.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 11448 MR. McLELLAND: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11449 Madam Chair and Commissioners, my name is Greg McLelland. I am a director with the Kincardine and Community Health Care Foundation, and I am proud to represent 14 hospital foundations from midwestern Ontario in support of Blackburn's bid for an FM station in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11450 We ‑‑ and I know that I can speak for the 14 foundations, even though they are hiding behind me ‑‑ are very indebted to the CKNX group of companies and radio stations in Wingham for their radio‑thon program that they started and coordinated and quarterbacked over the last six years, and I believe you heard statistics this morning of how successful it has been.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11451 Without that program, hospitals such as Kincardine's hospital, which I can speak for, would not have raised funds to purchase equipment to replace equipment that is 30 years old. We are indebted to them for this program.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11452 We actually begin this process in April. We work our way through the summer ‑‑ and we do get a lot of visitors over the summer ‑‑ and in October ‑‑ it culminates around the third Saturday in October, and we have a radio‑thon at CKNX in Wingham.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11453 We meet monthly in Wingham, as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11454 They provide the facilities, they provide the technical support, and during the summer and leading up to October, they also provide advertising, and support us in our community events as we are fundraising for our various pieces of equipment.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11455 Without raising the money through the radio‑thon, our hospitals would not be able to purchase this equipment. There is nothing in the budgets, and the government is not coming forward with money for us. So we are totally indebted.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11456 In six years we have raised $3.5 million. The process itself has evolved to such a state where we have an entity unto our own right now. The Health Care Heroes has developed a logo, which we are proud to show off today. We have a jingle on the radio, and throughout midwestern Ontario people now know what Health Care Heroes is all about.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11457 This was a dream started, as I said, six years ago at CKNX, hoping to someday accumulate $1 million. They have far surpassed it. We are at such a growth rate right now that we have another hospital wanting to come on board for next year, and there are two or three others talking to us about joining.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11458 I don't know if there would be any other hospitals left in midwestern Ontario.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11459 The great community citizenship that CKNX provides us has enabled us to do a great deal for our communities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11460 Just to wrap up my short, little speech, when we are out talking to people when fundraising, we have a saying, which is on the back of this T‑shirt, which is: "If we all give a little, we all gain a lot." I think, if the CRTC sees its way to granting the Blackburn Radio Group and CKNX the station in Owen Sound, that they will all gain a lot.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11461 Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11462 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11463 I think I speak for my colleagues when I say that we are always thrilled to hear of the great community service our licensees provide, and certainly CKNX is no exception. So thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11464 Commissioner Menzies, do you have any questions?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11465 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: I would like to support what was just said. I would like to congratulate you and everybody around you on your work as citizens, and I am delighted to hear of the good corporate citizenship of Blackburn in that regard.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11466 They have quite a bit of history in this part of the world. Does it just extend back the six years that this has been running?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11467 MR. McLELLAND: The radio‑thon, per se, is six years. I know they have done lots of health care services in the communities, but the radio‑thon is a six‑year event.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11468 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: What inspired you to come forward?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11469 MR. McLELLAND: Working in a hospital and seeing the needs ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 11470 As I said, we have replaced equipment that is 30 years old, and seeing budgets, and seeing what is not included in budgets, and seeing what the government is not supplying, we would not have equipment replaced.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11471 This year, for instance, in Kincardine, we replaced a 1991 portable x‑ray machine that was like a tank to push around the hospital. To see the new technology and to see the facility that it brought to the x‑ray and diagnostic department to get down the halls and to get to patients in Emergency and ICU just does the heart good.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11472 I know all of the people on the Foundation, and we have become quite bonded thanks to CKNX. The 14 foundations are united. We have made lots of friendships. We share ideas ‑‑ fundraising ideas ‑‑ and this is all because it started with CKNX.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11473 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: They sponsor the radio‑thon.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11474 MR. McLELLAND: Yes, they do.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11475 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Where do some of your biggest donations come from?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11476 MR. McLELLAND: It's a real mixed bag, because it depends on the foundation, but I know that we raise money through golf tournaments, we raise money through a cruise night, fifty‑fifty donations, and individual donors.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11477 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: So that I understand, this is just people phoning in and pledging money and ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 11478 MR. McLELLAND: Yes. We do posters ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 11479 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Mom and Pop and ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 11480 MR. McLELLAND: Yes, and there are events. Ten of the 14 foundations, I believe, have events on the radio‑thon day, and CKNX sends out a reporter on the spot, and they send feedback in to the radio stations, both AM and FM. It's on the air, and it raises the community level, and the spirit is just great.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11481 There are all kinds of challenges from various service groups, challenging each other to support their hospital.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11482 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Well, thank you for that and, again, congratulations on the work you do for your community.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11483 MR. McLELLAND: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11484 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner del Val.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11485 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11486 I can see why you would want to support Blackburn who has given you so much support and the better they do, the stronger the support that they can give you. Now, there is no indication that if things remain the status quo and they have the Wingham station that their support for you would lessen is there?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11487 MR. McLELLAND: No, not at all. I just see it growing.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11488 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Great.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11489 Now, if there were more radio stations licensed in the area would it not give your organization more doors to knock on?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11490 MR. McLELLAND: I don't think so because this is really ‑‑ it's really a CKNX 920 entity. They started it and everybody relates to that as far as I know through mid‑western Ontario.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11491 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Perhaps they could shame the other stations into doing the same.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11492 MR. McLELLAND: Well, that's right. I'm sure they would support it as well. I mean it's a great cause. Your hospital is a great cause. But they are the starters and they are with us every step of the way.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11493 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11494 MR. McLELLAND: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11495 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, thank you very much for your participation here today.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11496 Madam Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11497 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11498 I would now call Bayshore Broadcasting Corporation to come to the presentation table.
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 11499 THE SECRETARY: Please introduce yourself before your presentation, and you will have 15 minutes for your presentation.
INTERVENTION
LISTNUM 1 \l 11500 MR. KENTNER: Thank you, Madam Chair and Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11501 My name is Ross Kentner. I am the General Manager of Bayshore Broadcasting and with me today are key members of Bayshore's senior management team, Deb Shaw, Rob Brignell and Kevin Brown.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11502 And because so much of the questioning today has dealt with the very problematic issues of programming, I took the liberty of inviting our three senior program staff members to the table as well, J.D. Moffatt, who is Operations Manager for the Owen Sound cluster and Rick Ringer and Don Vail.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11503 Bayshore is the licensee of six radio stations in central Ontario, three in Owen Sound and stations in Port Elgin, Wasaga Beach and Goderich.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11504 Bayshore and its predecessors have been active in the Owen Sound market for over 67 years, beginning with CFOS‑AM in 1940. Its radio stations have become synonymous with the Owen Sound community and Grey and Bruce counties in general. Its management and staff have a long history of community involvement and the Bayshore radio stations are consistently at the forefront in local fundraising activities and cultural events. In fact, just this month CFOS held its 68th annual Christmas Fund broadcast of local talent from the Roxy Theatre, raising in excess of $21,000 for 24 local charities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11505 This is only one example of how Bayshore knows its community and the community knows us.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11506 Today we are here to oppose the applications of 2079966 Ontario Limited, Evanov Communications and Blackburn Radio for a new FM radio station in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11507 2079966 Ontario Limited has not provided any real evidence proving a real need for its service and two of the principals involved with this company have failed in previous attempts to provide service to Bruce and Huron counties on Ontario's west coast. For clarity's sake we will refer to this applicant as the "Company".
LISTNUM 1 \l 11508 Evanov's proposal is going to compete directly for audience and advertising with both CFOS‑AM and CIXK‑FM, Bayshore's Adult Contemporary radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11509 The application by Blackburn does not promote diversity. They are in the market already with three signals. Moreover, the proposed stations will significantly duplicate large portions of music programming already heard on CFOS‑AM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11510 Looking first at the Company, two of the principal partners of this application are also owners of a radio station in nearby Kincardine, Ontario. In 2005 Brian Cooper and Daniel McCarthy were awarded a licence to serve the Kincardine market with repeaters in Goderich and Port Elgin.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11511 In March 2006 CIYN‑FM, The Coast, went on air in Kincardine with the Haliburton Broadcasting Group handling operations for that station. However, almost three years after the original licence was granted neither the Goderich nor the Port Elgin repeater has been activated. The Company now suggests that technical issues prevented them from activating these transmitters within the two‑year window provided by the Commission.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11512 Moreover, Bayshore notes that the Company has been developing this present application since at least June of 2006 and places a three microvolt per metre contour almost directly over the Port Elgin and Saugeen Shores area, the very area Cooper/McCarthy proposed to serve with their original Kincardine repeater.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11513 So this has led Bayshore to hypothesize that perhaps Cooper/McCarthy had no intention of activating a Port Elgin repeater and would rather have a more powerful and more lucrative Owen Sound‑based radio station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11514 On the other hand, as we heard the applicants state today, the Company has already granted themselves new licences for repeaters in Goderich and Port Elgin even before the applications have been submitted to the Commission. We believe that based on Cooper/McCarthy's past performance it is reasonable to predict that the Company's motivation and promise of performance in this application is also suspect.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11515 Members of the Commission, we would like to clarify one of the points misinterpreted by the Company in our letter of intervention. At no time has Bayshore claimed that there is no demand for a rock‑based radio station in Owen Sound. In fact, we recognize that based on the out‑of‑market tuning to CIBU Wingham and CFJB Barrie there is indeed an interest in that music format. What we did say in our intervention is that the Company provided no evidence of a demand for their particular service.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11516 The Company points to BBM ratings for the Owen Sound market as the inevitable proof their service will succeed. And their logic is very simple. If the existing classic rock station from Wingham already has a strong presence in Owen Sound then the Company's service should, by default, receive the same audience share. But that logic doesn't necessarily follow at all.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11517 All of this notwithstanding, the Company has failed to answer one of the primary tenets of the CRTC's call for applications, namely that applicants will be required to provide evidence giving clear indication that there is a demand and a market for the station and the proposed service.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11518 Since the Evanov application ‑‑ or should the Evanov application be approved, the new station will undoubtedly draw significant numbers of listeners and advertisers away from Bayshore's local stations. This will especially affect the ability of Bayshore's Adult Contemporary station, CIXK, to attract national advertising. Evanov can bundle Owen Sound with its similarly branded Toronto and Ottawa radio stations when selling to national advertisers. CFOS is already struggling in Owen Sound with a PBIT well below the Ontario and national average for AM radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11519 While an established retail base of advertisers does find CFOS continues to work well for them, it has been necessary for us to turn to any and all non‑traditional advertisers to keep sales from slipping further. The addition of Evanov in the market will affect the ability of CFOS to continue to attract local advertisers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11520 Evanov is proposing to target a 45 to 64 core demographic, in direct competition with large portions of both the CFOS and CIXK audience. Evanov's own research clearly shows the impact that service would have on Bayshore. To quote Strategic Inc. from the Evanov application:
"Just under one‑third of the core audience currently listens to services from outside the market. The remainder of the audience is spread across the local services with the Adult Contemporary station most frequently reported."
LISTNUM 1 \l 11521 MR. KENTNER: Since Strategic Inc. determined that Bayshore is the only service inside the market, the Evanov application clearly states that a full two‑thirds of Evanov's audience is going to come primarily from CFOS and CIXK.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11522 The Evanov application, should it be approved, would draw significant audience away from CFOS and CIXK by duplicating the target audience and music format. It would cause further local and national advertising fragmentation within the Owen Sound market. The proposed Evanov station will have a negative impact on Bayshore's Owen Sound services.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11523 As we detailed in our letter of intervention opposing the Blackburn application, approval would have a negative impact on Bayshore's stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11524 In its application Blackburn provided a list of 58 musical selections intended to reflect the station's sound. Analysis by Bayshore's senior programming staff revealed that of the 58 selections provided, 33 are in active rotation on CFOS‑AM. This equates to a 57 percent duplication rate.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11525 Blackburn challenged our analysis and therefore we have attached the full list, as provided in the application, along with the two most recent dates and times each selection was played on CFOS. And J.D. Moffat, our Operations Manager for Owen Sound, was responsible for compiling the data in this list and can answer any questions you may have.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11526 Clearly, the Blackburn application is targeting the CFOS audience with a very similar style of music programming. Moreover, the Blackburn application states that the majority of its listeners will be drawn from its own classic and modern rock station, CIBU‑FM Wingham.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11527 Bayshore believes that audiences currently listening to Blackburn's hard rock station for artists like Van Halen, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC and Velvet Revolver would not be interested in hearing middle of the road and soft rock artists proposed in their application; artists such as Chicago, Cher, Carole King and Edward Bear.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11528 Given this obvious apples to oranges appeal of AC/DC to Carole King, and also considering the 57 percent play list duplication with CFOS, Bayshore believes the majority of Blackburn's composed listening audience is not coming from CIBU‑FM as they contend but from CFOS‑AM Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11529 The proposed Blackburn station will have a negative impact on Bayshore's CFOS‑AM. Approval would offer no diversity of ownership, no diversity of news and especially no diversity of programming voices in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11530 For example, according to the most recent BBM survey, Blackburn combines with Bayshore to garner nearly three‑quarters of total audience reach in Grey and Bruce counties. If the Commission is seeking true diversity of voices in Owen Sound, Blackburn is not a realistic option.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11531 In summary, Bayshore believes that the applications submitted by Blackburn, Evanov and the Company will have an overwhelmingly negative impact on Bayshore's Heritage AM station CFOS and its Adult Contemporary CIXK‑FM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11532 2079966 Ontario Limited has not provided any real evidence proving a need for their service in Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11533 Evanov's proposal is going to compete directly for audience and advertising with both CFOS‑AM and CIXK‑FM, Bayshore's Adult Contemporary station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11534 The application by Blackburn does not promote diversity and will significantly duplicate large portions of music programming already heard on CFOS‑AM.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11535 Members of the Commission, Bayshore respectfully submits that the Commission deny the applications by 2079966 Ontario Limited, Evanov Communications and Blackburn Radio.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11536 Thank you. And we would be pleased to answer any questions you have.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11537 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Kentner, and to your colleagues.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11538 Commissioner del Val.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11539 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11540 Thank you, Mr. Kentner and panel.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11541 So just some background information, the three stations, the three Heritage stations that you currently are licensed for in Owen Sound what years were they launched?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11542 MR. KENTNER: CFOS, the Heritage AM, was launched March 1st, 1940, CIXK Mix 106 was launched in January of 1989 and Country 93 CKYC was launched in September of 2004.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11543 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11544 So you have been incumbent there ‑‑ the sole incumbent in that station for a long time. So it's really ‑‑ it's reality to say that licensing anyone is going to have some negative impact on your stations, isn't it?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11545 MR. KENTNER: That's true, but we have not intervened against everyone.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11546 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Okay. Then that's a good segue into my next question.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11547 So can I draw the conclusion, which Larche has summarized very nicely for me, is the reason why you are not intervening against Larche that; one, you think Larche is the most compatible and; two, you think the market can absorb Larche?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11548 MR. KENTNER: Yes, and I think I would like to defer to some of my colleagues to speak to your question, Madam Commissioner.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11549 MS SHAW: We feel that the market can sustain one more commercial radio station. And I will defer to our sales manager, Kevin Brown, to give more detail.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11550 MR. BROWN: Well, I think we all have the same numbers of how the markets are analyzed. And you know, everybody uses the FP survey of markets and if you do the calculations you can see there is approximately another million dollars sitting there. I think that's an accepted practice.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11551 So we accept that as a company. We do not feel ‑‑ I know this question is coming down the road ‑‑ that there is room for two, but we certainly believe there is room for one and we feel that the Larche application is one that would do the least damage to our operation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11552 COMMISSIONER del VAL: And that's because you would probably feel that Larche would be taking its audience from, say, Blackburn's existing station; is that why partly?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11553 MR. BROWN: Yes, we don't currently program to the rock audience. We are more female skewed with all of our properties. Country has a male skew to it but, certainly, CIXK has a female skew and a rock property would take it from the out‑of‑market rock audience that's already tuning to them.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11554 COMMISSIONER del VAL: So turning to your interventions and, Mr. Kentner, you have been quite loyal to the letters that you have written.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11555 I will ask this question first. In your intervention against Blackburn in paragraphs 9 to 13 you talk about no diversity of news voices. And I'm sorry, but I am not ‑‑ I am not following that very well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11556 So I am wondering if you could just explain your position again?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11557 MR. KENTNER: Well, I think it is that Blackburn already has quite a substantive share of the Owen Sound market and therefore its news voice is very audible, and those who listen to The Bull or who listen to The One are very, very familiar with their news voice.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11558 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Okay. Here you say that:
"While the Blackburn application provides four fulltime staff in the news department, Bayshore's experience with news and information suggests that many of the key news items occurring on a daily basis are regional in nature, items of value to all residents in Grey and Bruce counties."
LISTNUM 1 \l 11559 MR. KENTNER: That's correct.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11560 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11561 And then in paragraph 12 you say:
"It is further likely that Blackburn's network of correspondents will feed one news item to all Blackburn's stations in the area, whether in Wingham or in Owen Sound, duplicating both story and content."
LISTNUM 1 \l 11562 MR. KENTNER: Yes, and in their application they outline plans for that. If it were a Bruce Power story, for example, it would go to all the stations. If it were a major story like, for example, the shortage of isotopes at the Owen Sound General and Marine Hospital or the hospital there, definitely that would go back to the Wingham stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11563 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11564 Now, Bayshore you have about ‑‑ you have six stations in the area including the three in Owen Sound and then Wasaga Beach, Port Elgin and Goderich. Now, is it ‑‑ do you share news sources? Does Bayshore share news sources like that and resources like that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11565 MR. KENTNER: We have actually created within Bayshore a brand that we call the "Bayshore Broadcasting News Centre" and it is really the core CFOS newsroom and that supports the news product on CIXK and on CKYC. However, we have separate news directors and news staffs in the other three localities.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11566 COMMISSIONER del VAL: And you are saying that Blackburn doesn't have that? Is that what you are ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 11567 MR. KENTNER: No.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11568 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11569 Now, I'm turning to Blackburn's reply to your interventions and, in particular paragraphs six through to nine, where they are not agreeing with your characterization of how they are ‑‑ what their contour is going to cover. And so I am wondering whether you have had a chance to look at their response in those four paragraphs and whether you have any response to their reply?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11570 MR. KENTNER: I think it is that since 1989 we have been located on the CBC tower at Kemble which is about 10 kilometres north of Owen Sound where three of the applicants propose to establish. And our experience there right below the CBC antenna is that we cannot satisfactorily serve South Hampton, Port Elgin, Paisley, Chesley, Markdale, Flesherton, and those are communities that are really part ‑‑ satellite communities to Owen Sound in a sense. Larger important Grey Bruce centres such as Kincardine, Walkerton and Hanover are totally unreachable from this location.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11571 These applicants have all talked about such a rich and vibrant market and they usually include all of Grey and Bruce when they talk about that, but you can't reach all of Grey and Bruce. Even with three signals from three different transmitter sites in and around Owen Sound we do not cover all of Grey and Bruce counties, which is about 157,000 people.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11572 So each of these standalone stations is not going to cover ‑‑ I believe in fact Blackburn said maybe 100,000, and that's optimistic in my view.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11573 COMMISSIONER del VAL: And I guess in a nutshell their response does not allay your concerns and your ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 11574 MR. KENTNER: Our experience with Blackburn is that the ink is hardly dry on the licence before there is an application for a power increase followed by an application for a repeater.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11575 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Okay. What about their point that they said:
"Attached as Appendix A is a version of the same contour map provided by Bayshore showing the AM 15mV/m perimeter contour and the 3mV/m contour. It is quite clear that there is no intersection between any of their existing Blackburn stations and the new Owen Sound station."
LISTNUM 1 \l 11576 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Do you have any response to that?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11577 MR. KENTNER: It is absolutely true they don't intersect. I would say that the driving time between the contours is about five minutes.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11578 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Okay.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11579 MR. KENTNER: As an operator in the market I find that they are going to have four stations in a market in which I have three. And I think it is going to be very difficult.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11580 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Now, did you have a chance to look at the other responses, because their responses were as ‑‑ they put as much work into their responses as you did to your intervention.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11581 And so I'm wondering whether you have anything to add to reinforce your concerns or in reply to theirs? Are there any ‑‑ are there any issues that we can takeoff the table?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11582 MR. KENTNER: I'm not sure ‑‑ I'm having a hard time getting past the opportunity to pass comment on the fact that ‑‑ I certainly think that the Evanov people are extremely interested in the Collingwood and Wasaga Beach markets. Their intervenor has spent most of this time talking about what's going on in that part of the world and we fully anticipate that if Evanov is licensed they will be back with further plans to strengthen their service to that part of the country.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11583 You were asking me, you know, to give you some comfort in licensing another player?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11584 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Not really, but if you want to say something along that line.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11585 MR. KENTNER: It is not easy.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 11586 MR. KENTNER: I didn't understand your question and I apologize.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11587 COMMISSIONER del VAL: No, no, I was just wondering whether the responses that each applicant provided to your intervention, I am wondering whether any of those responses elate any of your concerns and, therefore, took some of the issues that are on the table?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11588 MR. KENTNER: No, that is why, for example, we have supplied more information on the duplication of music between CFOS and The Bull. And I just say, having heard the Evanov presentation, which I have an ear for this kind of music personally, but they are targeting exactly our demographic, exactly our music, exactly our universe and exactly our advertisers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11589 And one of the issues that we have is trying to keep Heritage AM that has not three hours, not 12 hours, but 30 hours of news in a week, to keep that alive and healthy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11590 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Thank you, those are my questions.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11591 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Menzies.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11592 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you. I think just to follow‑up on that last point, what is the biggest challenge in keeping the AM news component you just talked about healthy? Because there has been quite a bit of talk here and there today about the news component of radio stations and that sort of stuff and the key to drawing listeners. And if it is drawing listeners, it should be able to draw advertisers. So what is the big challenge there?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11593 MR. KENTNER: Well, the big challenge is if you are the incumbent at Owen Sound you are expected to be at every meeting of Owen Sound City Council and a dozen other municipal councils that meet bi‑weekly. You are expected to cover the trials, you are expected to cover the two county councils and the two boards of education and a myriad of other things and you are also expected to be there on weekends.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11594 And I guess the concern is that most of these applicants are able to bring a new service to market and rely on Bayshore to be the news provider, but that does nothing to relieve our costs in a more competitive scenario.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11595 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Okay. There has also been some talk about how competition grows the market in terms of that. And I understand that you are not taking issue entirely with that point, but I would like to hear your thoughts on that a little bit more in terms of wouldn't a little bit of competition, and you have agreed that there could be one, but wouldn't more competition help you grow your market?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11596 MR. KENTNER: I honestly believe that radio grows as a result of more players, I would not argue that point with you. One of the things everybody loves to say at these hearings is, don't worry, we will take it from the newspaper. You should see our newspaper, there is nothing left of it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11597 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: I have seen it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11598 MR. KENTNER: It is pathetic. We have more journalists than, I want to say by a factor of three or four, than the Sun Times, they were our parent. I remember when they had 12 news people and we had one, I was it. And now we have 12 and they have about three. So it is devastating. And these new players are not going to find that there is much print money available in this market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11599 COMMISSIONER MENZIES: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11600 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner del Val.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11601 COMMISSIONER del VAL: I am sorry, I missed the very last line on my page.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11602 In your presentation you were talking about Evanov bundling, being able to bundle. But you have five other stations, you can bundle too.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11603 MR. KENTNER: Yes, but I would say that is something that may work to some degree. Where we are operating these new services, Wasaga Beach, Port Elgin and Goderich, these are very small markets. It is the first service that we are offering and we have definitely found some synergies, including some capacity to sell in combination. But what I am speaking of is the capacity of Evanov to really clean house on national advertising. And there is another fallacy out there too, by the way, and it is this idea that national advertisers will simply, you know, buy you too. But what happens is that they switch buys, they don't enlarge buys. National advertisers only buy winners and it is shorter and shorter lists. Really, Kevin is the person who could speak to that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11604 So those two points, Evanov is in a position, I think, to corner the market on national advertising by actually including Owen Sound with much bigger buys for Ottawa and Toronto. And any of these players will, especially Blackburn, if they end up with four services against our three and a larger market share than they already have, I think some of our stations, and definitely CFOS, will never see another dollar of national.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11605 COMMISSIONER del VAL: I guess my comment is, you know, being incumbent in this area for ‑‑ I appreciate your concerns and, of course, I can appreciate your concern that your market share or audience share will drop, but I just don't see so readily that you would not come out the winner in the competition.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11606 MR. KENTNER: We always pay to win.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11607 COMMISSIONER del VAL: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11608 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, thank you, Mr. Kentner and to your colleagues, thank you very much for your participation here today.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11609 Madam Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11610 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair. This completes the list of appearing interveners and Phase 3.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11611 We will now proceed to Phase 4 in which applicants can reply to all interventions submitted on their application. Applicants appear in reverse order. We would then invite Evanov Communications Inc. to respond, if they wish, to all the interventions that were filed to their application. You may proceed to the presentation table.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11612 For the record, please reintroduce yourself, and you will have 10 minutes. Thank you.
REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
LISTNUM 1 \l 11613 MR. EVANOV: My name is Bill Evanov, President of Evanov Communications Inc. To my right is Carmela Laurignano, Vice‑President of the Radio Group, and from Strategic Inc., to her right, Debra McLaughlin.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11614 And I am going to ask Carmela to start the presentation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11615 MS LAURIGNANO: Thank you. Good afternoon again, Madam Commissioner, commissioners, Commission staff.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11616 With me today is Debra and Bill, as he mentioned. We are here to reply to the intervention by Bayshore Broadcasting Corporation against our application for an FM service in Owen Sound and I will address each of the issues that have been raised.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11617 The first one was the ECI will duplicate the format and audiences of Bayshore. We addressed this to some extent in our presentation in chief and again in questions, but I think the findings bear repeating.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11618 Our original investigation showed that 80 per cent of our library is not available in this market. We subsequently commissioned a second independent study by Strategic that showed in the drive times, mornings and evenings, that there is only 6 per cent duplication, and that is only with CFOS.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11619 We followed that up with a secondary review six months later and found the same levels. Although we have not tested the duplication of other applicants, given the less than definitive nature of formats generally, it is reasonable to conclude after examining all the proposals that The Jewel offers the least possible likelihood of duplication with stations currently serving the market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11620 Their second point raised was that ECI is applying a large market concept for Owen Sound. As you heard us outlining earlier today, we do not approach markets with a format in mind. Broadcasting is a business in line with good business practices, you must know the market before you introduce a product, so we did our homework.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11621 We found the following. The market is older. Over half of all the communities we will serve are 45 years of age or older. The median age reported by StatsCan for each of these communities is over that of Canada and, in a market like Wiarton, is almost 10 years older.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11622 We looked at BBM tuning numbers in the market and found that tuning was down in the age group we wanted to serve. And this same data showed a lack of service by originating and spill stations to the demos served, easy listening services.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11623 We spoke to consumers in the market and gauged their interest outside of format research and we tested the concept with advertisers.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11624 Finally, we tested the interest with consumers using standard methodologies. All of these measures indicate that an easy listening format is suitable for the market. If there is interest by consumers, if it fits the demographic profile of the market, and if advertisers want it, how is this a big market concept? It seems to us that a format that meets all of these criteria must be described as a marketable concept regardless of market size.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11625 The fact is that formats are not tied to geography, but to listeners. And the only thing that should determine if our proposal is applicable to this market are the data demonstrating both an opportunity and an interest in the format and we think those data are pretty compelling.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11626 The third point was that ECI has not provided comfort that it will maintain its format. Again, with all due respect to the intervener, as the Commission does not require it, who in these or in any other proceeding has committed? Radio broadcasting is a changing landscape and one where ECI, like every other operator, must be free to adjust to market forces.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11627 We offer this, not because we will not answer the charge, but rather because it seems to be implied that we are not being upfront. In fact, we are just asking to play on the same field as everyone else. To provide comfort, however, we will offer our track record as evidence of our commitment to the formats we proposed.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11628 In Toronto where stations serving a younger end of demographic spectrum run far larger and by well‑funded company than ours, I might add, and have been in and out of programming to people under the age of 35, we have stayed fast. Since 1994 we have provided music to the 12‑34 audience and have witnessed the exodus from the demo by companies such as Chorus and Rogers. We are still there and at the top of the pack.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11629 In Ottawa and Newmarket where impaired signals keep us from reaching the full market we have stayed with The Jewel format despite recognizing opportunities to shift formats and target larger demographics.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11630 We believe that the 45 plus demo is the place to be and, just as we did all those many years ago with you, we believe the way to maximize the potential is to stick with it.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11631 And then there was a statement that ECI will inevitably apply for a power increase of repeaters throughout the area. We might add further that this list of possibilities, that it could include an application for a second licence.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11632 We are not being facetious, but factual. We do not know what the future will bring and could speculate on all manners of activities, but we are sure of one thing, the process of public consultation and notice ensures that should we apply for this change of operating licence, Bayshore will have a chance at this time to explain why this is not in the best interest of incumbent broadcasters in the market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11633 And the CRTC will be able to review the arguments we present and ultimately decide if what we are requesting furthers the objectives of the Broadcasting Act and is good public policy.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11634 Our request to provide diversity and meet the needs of an underserved consumer group today should not be denied on the basis of what we might do in the future. That is what the public process is for.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11635 Finally, Bayshore has suggested that ECI has provided questionable research. I do not purport to be a researcher, but I am confident in the reply supplied by Strategic Inc. on this matter. Not only did Ms McLaughlin thoroughly address the points raised in our written reply, but two other industry experts reviewed the study and came independently to the same conclusion. There is nothing in our research that either skews or misrepresents the market or the interest in our service.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11636 I should note that Dr. Anticol who was most conclusive in his letter, is not only a reputable researcher with one of Canada's largest firms, his is a lawyer and reviewed the work with a critical eye trained to identify bias from two distinct disciplines.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11637 I will ask Ms McLaughlin now to address two points that were raised by Mr. Kentner today, one relating to some research quoted and, the other, regarding the bundling issue.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11638 MS McLAUGHLIN: Yes. On page 21 of the report Bayshore quoted from the Strategic Inc. report and, while it was a literal read, it wasn't an appropriate interpretation.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11639 What that chart shows is of the core audience, which represents substantially less than the total audience proposed to our service, that a certain per cent, 60 per cent approximately, currently listen to another station in the market, all three of them being owned by Bayshore.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11640 It does not suggest that these listeners are going to stop listening to their station. Neither does it indicate whether they are core listeners to the Bayshore station or peripheral listeners. If they are peripheral listeners, then they are not contributing to their core audience and there is absolutely no way of determining that through this research.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11641 Further, we also asked, to make sure that we understood the potential for this service, if this group ‑‑ and we asked it of all applicants ‑‑ if this station was licensed would they end up tuning more? And, in fact, 55 per cent overall of the audience that we will have as our core said they would tune more.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11642 Further, if we look at the most recent BBM data, we provided to the Commission on page 3 of our study an index of hours tuned in the market. And if you look at the demographics, particularly at the older end, and you must remember that this isn't necessarily tuning to Bayshore stations, this is tuning generally in the market, the index continues to decline. We reported that 55 plus was in the area of 94, it is now at 89 after the fall research or fall survey. The same for 65 plus, it dropped from 86 to 84.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11643 So we see a real opportunity for growth. There is a declining audience base for stations in the area for all radio. And our research provides evidence that not only did they like this format but they will tune more if it is available.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11644 Finally, on the issue of bundling, Ottawa and Toronto are top tier markets. They aren't planned in the same manner that Owen Sound would. And the way planning is done, it is ranked from top to bottom. And there would be no similarities from the plan through to who would buy it most likely.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11645 For several years I sold small market radio with target broadcast sales and I wish I could tell you that it was simply a point of saying I will leverage this station on because I have these other two major markets. It doesn't happen. In fact, it is the reverse.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11646 If you tried to make that sale, what they would say is let us cut the cost in very expensive Ottawa and very expensive Toronto by throwing that one in free and we will figure out the efficiencies. So it is not a possibility. In the end, everybody would lose.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11647 Carmela.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11648 MS LAURIGNANO: So we did what any good broadcaster would do, we looked at the market from a data perspective and we examined it by being in it. We used both scientific methods and common sense to arrive at the proposal we put before you. And after hearing all the applications presented, we leave still confident that the format we have identified is not only the best option for the market today, but also the best for the future.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11649 News talk is the number one format in the country according to BBM. The demand for local news is evidenced not only in our research ‑‑
LISTNUM 1 \l 11650 THE SECRETARY: I am sorry, you have 30 seconds remaining to conclude.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11651 MS LAURIGNANO: ‑‑ but in others as well. Therefore, CFOS has a unique and enviable position in this market. They should not short sell their ability to compete with a music service that, although having the highest commitment to spoken word, will in no way approximate the depth of coverage that they can give in residences and the communities they serve. They are entrenched and they are known and they will survive.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11652 Bayshore Broadcasting should rest assured that as an incumbent with three stations here, our entering into the market will be a very pleasant experience for them and for the listeners. We will be good neighbours, we can compliment each other and we can coexist.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11653 We thank you for the opportunity to make our comments today.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11654 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11655 Madam Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11656 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11657 For the record, Larche Communications Inc. have indicated that they would not appear in Phase 4.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11658 I would now invite Blackburn Radio Inc. to come forward to the presentation if they wish to participate in this phase.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11659 Please reintroduce yourself for the record and you will have 10 minutes for your presentation.
REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
LISTNUM 1 \l 11660 MR. COSTLEY WHITE: Thank you. Good afternoon, Madam Chair, members of the Commission and CRTC staff. My name is Richard Costley White, Owner, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Blackburn Radio Inc.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11661 With me are my colleagues that you met in Phase 1; John Weese, Gina Lorentz, Ray Baynton, Andrew Campbell, Joan Moore, Mark Kassof, Nancy Burton, Rob Enders and Jason Ploegman.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11662 We are here to reply to the interventions to our application, both written and oral, supporting and opposing. I would like to start by thanking the people who wrote letters of support for our application. They include the representatives of 14 hospitals in our home market, the same people who came here today in black t‑shirts and addressed you earlier. They are here because they appreciate the commitment that the CKNX team and Blackburn has made to the communities we serve.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11663 In their written intervention they stated and I quote:
"It would be safe to say that on a per capita basis CKNX is the largest supporter of local charities in its service area. CKNX Radio is an integral part of mid‑western Ontario communities." (As Read)
LISTNUM 1 \l 11664 Interveners from Owen Sound indicated that the market was ready for new radio. For example, the Billy Bishop and Marine Rail Museum noted and I quote:
"Will all deserved respect given to Bayshore Broadcasting and their many stations that currently serve Owen Sound, we believe a new voice, a competitive element, and Blackburn's intentions to invest in many local initiatives would greatly benefit our community." (As Read)
LISTNUM 1 \l 11665 Others noted our history of support for community events. For example, the Port Elgin Pumpkinfest stated and again I quote:
"Their system of having a dedicated person to help non‑profit groups and festivals is one that makes them stand out from other media outlets and shows their ability to adapt a service to the area in which they operate." (As Read)
LISTNUM 1 \l 11666 We want to assure you that we will bring the same dedication to community service to Owen Sound if you grant us this licence.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11667 Let me now turn to the opposing intervener.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11668 Bayshore Broadcasting operates three radio stations in the Owen Sound market, two FM stations and a heritage full‑service AM station. They also have an application before you at this hearing to convert the AM station to the FM band. They are well‑positioned throughout the region with stations in nearby markets, Saugeen Shores, Goderich and Wasaga Beach. Their stations reach into our market as ours can be received in their market and they are well positioned to take on new competition.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11669 Bayshore makes four arguments in its written brief. Bayshore says that our proposed station will not add diversity in either ownership or editorial voice. They state we already have a three‑station cluster in the market and they further state that we will duplicate the news on our existing stations.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11670 Two, Bayshore claims that our proposed station will not add diversity in musical format, since we will duplicate the sound of CFOS. Three, Bayshore alleges that we will inevitably return to the CRTC for a power increase or for re‑transmitters to provide better coverage. And four, Bayshore that our research is questionable and contradictory.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11671 We provided a comprehensive reply to each of these allegations in our written reply and today we would like to add some additional remarks.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11672 And I would now like to ask Ray Baynton to tell you some more about our approach to news on The Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11673 MR. BAYNTON: Good afternoon, Madam Chair and commissioners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11674 In our application we mentioned that we would share some of our stories with our Wingham news room. There are events that happen in Owen Sound that are of interest to the citizens of the many towns and villages within the Wingham coverage area.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11675 For example, we covered the fact that the Grey Bruce Regional Health Centre's annual Christmas fundraiser is underway. Now, that hospital is based in Owen Sound but it is a regional hospital. That means its financial success is important to anyone who could use the services there and that includes people from Southern, Grey and Bruce counties as well as in some cases right into Northern Huron County.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11676 Now, similar stories from Huron County are of interest to the residents of Owen Sound. For instance, the founder of an environmental group in the Bayfield area, and that is south of Goderich, says the province's plans to ban the use of non‑essential pesticides in Ontario towns is a good move. Now, he also says that environmental groups will have to keep up the pressure to make it a reality.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11677 It is a story from Huron County but the use of non‑essential pesticides has been a hot municipal political story for sometime right across the region, including in the city of Owen Sound.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11678 It would be poor use of our news reporters to send reporters from both Wingham and Owen Sound to cover what is essentially the same story. The journalist who covers the story would make it available to both markets. The news director in each market would then decide if he or she would run it, what form it would take and whether it needs some sort of additional localization.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11679 Well, that is the same process that we basically use in our CKNX stations in Wingham that serve three stations. Each station's editors decide which stories to use, what form they should get based on the demographic and the geography of their target listeners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11680 I might point out that Mr. Kempner suggested that as the incumbent it is Bayshore's duty to be the pre‑eminent news source in the Owen Sound market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11681 Now, with our proposed news staffing, our resources and our on‑air commitments, we would really love the chance to challenge that pre‑eminence in the Owen Sound market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11682 Now, we have verified that the stories broadcast by our Wingham stations in a week in November found that only 5 percent of them made mention of the city of Owen Sound. Now, we are proposing that 75 percent of the Sound's news stories will be local to the Owen Sound area. That will result in significantly different newscasts than what they are hearing from our stations right now.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11683 To speak more about our diversity of format, here is Gina Lorentz.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11684 MS LORENTZ: Thank you, Ray.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11685 Good afternoon, commissioners.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11686 Bayshore views both our application for a rock‑based classic hit station and Evanov's for a new easy listening as threats to its AM station CFOS.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11687 Bayshore claims there will be significant overlap to this full‑service station that plays music from the late 50s to the early 70s but Evanov and Blackburn propose radically different formats: one, a rock‑ and hit‑based format, the other, an easy listening station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11688 This begs the question: Exactly what is the format of CFOS?
LISTNUM 1 \l 11689 In our written reply we noted that CFOS is in fact a full‑service radio station that happens to play some oldies. With comprehensive news coverage, a daily talk show, play‑by‑play coverage of Junior Hockey and a variety of spoken‑word shows on weekends, it is clear that it is neither an easy listening station nor a classic hit station.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11690 Today, Bayshore Broadcasting placed on record a comparison list of songs which we have had no chance to see. It is very easy to speculate that we would play some songs currently heard on CFOS. What we do know is that these are two very different formats. Classic hits is not CFOS.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11691 There was an admission that CFOS has 30 hours of news content each week.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11692 Mark Kassof's research asked is there a music format currently available in this market and the largest number identified that classic hits was a void.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11693 Now, to sum up, here is John Weese.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11694 MR. WEESE: Thank you, Gina.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11695 Hello again.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11696 Bayshore chose to question the research provided by Mr. Kassof. Mr. Kassof is a very reputable researcher with many clients throughout Canada as well as the United States and he provided replies to each of the claims raised by Bayshore in their written intervention.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11697 Bayshore has also depicted Blackburn as operating in their market. Frankly, their argument that we have a three‑station operation in their market is just inaccurate. Our AM station AM 920 puts a very weak signal into Owen Sound's central market. AM 920 is a full news, talk, sports station focused on the Wingham central market and we play a bit of country music. CKNX‑AM drew a negligible 1.6 percent of hours tuned in Owen Sound central according to the most recent BBMs.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11698 Our Hot AC station, CKNX‑FM, known as The ONE, also has a relatively weak signal into Owen Sound. Its format is very similar to the Bayshore's Mix 106 and our station drew only 6.3 percent of hours tuned in the market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11699 Our rock station, CIBU, The Bull, has known some success in the Owen Sound market despite a relatively weak signal. It provides a rock format that is not available locally. Now in the most recent BBMs it drew 13.5 of all hours tuned. It is interesting to note not only do we draw audience there but it also draws audience from other out‑of‑market stations as well.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11700 For the record, just on the BBMs, our reach was down all ages. It was also down in reach and share for age 18+. And in the category of 25‑54 the reach was down, however, our share was up negligibly. We did retain that market share. I think we are up by 2 points.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11701 When we launched The Bull, we discovered that there was a significant interest in the format across their central market and in Owen Sound. We are good business people, so we didn't turn away business opportunity and given our success we capitalized on it but it is clear from our research that the big loser if we are licensed is our own Bull. About 60 percent of the Sound's audience will come from the Bull.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11702 We do not have a three‑station cluster in Owen Sound. We have three Wingham‑based stations that serve a large full‑service area and with the exception of a rock station we have no impact on Owen Sound, very little.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11703 We urge you to listen to the community service groups, business people and others who have told you of the benefit of Blackburn's brand of community‑oriented radio. They deserve a strong new partner with a distinct editorial voice and diverse format as well as a proven track record of service.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11704 We thank you for your attention and we would be pleased to answer any questions that you may have. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11705 THE CHAIRPERSON: Having no indication that there are any further questions, thank you very much for your reply.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11706 Madam Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11707 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11708 We would now invite 2079966 Ontario Limited to come forward to the presentation table if they wish to participate in this phase.
‑‑‑ Pause
LISTNUM 1 \l 11709 THE SECRETARY: Please reintroduce yourself for the record and you will have 10 minutes for your presentation.
REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
LISTNUM 1 \l 11710 MR. COOPER: Madam Chair and commissioners, I am Brian Cooper, President and CEO of 2079966 Ontario Limited, sometimes known as The Company. To my left is my partner Daniel McCarthy and to my right is my partner Christopher Grossman.
‑‑‑ Laughter / Rires
LISTNUM 1 \l 11711 MR. GROSSMAN: I am still trying to get reeling or gathering my thoughts here.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11712 I want to give a brief history, a very brief history of how we got together, was that I recognized that these were two new entrants ‑‑ and I guess what is most offensive and mean‑spirited about this process is that we are trying to get or I feel it is important that we get new blood into the radio ownership in Canada and we have got Dan McCarthy, who is the Vice‑Chairman of CIBC worldwide, and Brian Cooper, who is one of the pre‑eminent sports marketing experts in Canada, if not in America, and for us to be defending some actions of Brian and Dan as it relates to them getting stations on the air at a specific time, I can sit here and tell you with a hundred percent certainty that they had agreements in place with Rogers and Rogers made it almost impossible for them to get those towers up.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11713 That is when I came into the process and said we have to obviously work towards that but the reality of the situation is a single standalone station, even with repeaters in Port Elgin, where you at the same time had licensed an originating station, and in Goderich is impossible to be viable long term, so that we needed to get a second licence, which obviously, in this case, to create synergies, to make it a viable business entity, is to go into the Owen Sound market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11714 I take personal offence at the fact that Bayshore would suggest in any way that these two gentlemen did anything other than the best they possibly could, with no experience in radio. It is offensive and mean‑spirited.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11715 So what they are saying is that we offer no evidence that there is demand for a rock station but would suggest that Larche, who offered no demand in research or in any proprietary research, they accept the premise that the BBM numbers are accurate for him.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11716 And I also find it very offensive in this case that there is some sort of conspiracy that we are going to change the tower, that we are going to somehow come back here and re‑jig the deal that in June of '06 we had this secret meeting. There was no secret meeting. These guys need help. They have got the resources, the expertise to build a radio company and we want to give them a hand.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11717 Finally, more than anything, for those of us that were at the Ottawa hearing for the Sudbury licence, there shouldn't be a backroom deal where they are picking who they want to be the competitor. The reality is in that hearing where Bill and I did an application for Sudbury, had we known that Larche was selling his station in Kitchener ‑‑ and they talked about the synergies of the Kitchener station as it related to that market ‑‑ I think it would have changed the outcome of that for the rest in that.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11718 There should be no backroom deal. They shouldn't choose who they want to compete here. Based on what they intervened against us, the same principle should apply.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11719 Obviously, if we get licensed in Owen Sound we are the biggest threat. We have got the architect, the painter, the designer of that format in that market. There is absolutely no question that the synergies, our expertise in Haliburton, that we will be successful in that market.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11720 Don't ‑‑ please, I beg and implore you, don't make this a backroom deal. Give these gentlemen an opportunity to build a business, to repatriate some of the ownership issues and you have my personal word we will be successful.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11721 Brian.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11722 MR. COOPER: Thank you, Christopher.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11723 Commissioners, Madam Chair, as I said earlier, we need to build and grow. We are excited about being in the radio industry. We stumbled at the start. We have a great partnership right here. We believe we can serve the Owen Sound market with a great rock station. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11724 THE CHAIRPERSON: Gentlemen, thank you very much. Your passion is obvious. Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11725 Madam Secretary.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11726 THE SECRETARY: This completes the consideration of items 1 to 4 on the agenda. Thank you, Madam Chair.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11727 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11728 We will adjourn for the day and we will start tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m. and hear the applications for Windsor.
LISTNUM 1 \l 11729 Thank you and have a good evening.
‑‑‑ Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1715, to
resume on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 at 0900 /
L'audience est ajournée à 1715, pour reprendre
le mardi 11 décembre 2007 à 0900
REPORTERS
____________________ ____________________
Beverley Dillabough Monique Mahoney
____________________ ____________________
Sue Villeneuve Jennifer Cheslock
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