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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS FOR THE CANADIAN RADIO-TELEVISION AND TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DU CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES SUBJECT / SUJET: PUBLIC CONSULTATION ON THE CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION (CBC)/ CONSULTATIONS PUBLIQUES SUR LA SOCIÉTÉ RADIO-CANADA (SRC) HELD AT: TENUE À: Hilton Windsor Hotel Hôtel Hilton Windsor Erie Room Salle Erie 277 Riverside Drive W. 277 Prom. Riverside O. Windsor, Ontario Windsor (Ontario) March 18, 1999 Le 18 mars 1999 tel: 613-521-0703 StenoTran fax: 613-521-7668 Transcripts In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of Contents. However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in either of the official languages, depending on the language spoken by the participant at the public hearing. Transcription Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues officielles, les procès-verbaux pour le Conseil seront bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience publique ainsi que la table des matières. Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le participant à l'audience publique. StenoTran Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des télécommunications canadiennes Transcript / Transcription Public Hearing / Audience publique PUBLIC CONSULTATION ON THE CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION (CBC)/ CONSULTATIONS PUBLIQUES SUR LA SOCIÉTÉ RADIO-CANADA (SRC) BEFORE / DEVANT: Joan Pennefather Chairperson / Présidente Commissioner / Conseillère ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS: David Rhéaume Secretary / Secrétaire Commission Counsel / Avocat du Conseil HELD AT: TENUE À: Hilton Windsor Hotel Hôtel Hilton Windsor Erie Room Salle Erie 277 Riverside Drive W. 277 Prom. Riverside O. Windsor, Ontario Windsor (Ontario) March 18, 1999 Le 18 mars 1999 StenoTran ii TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES PAGE Presentation by / Présentation par: Ms Margaret Dudley 8 Mr. Fred Plexman 12 Ms Priscilla Connelly 14 Mr. Bruce Crozier 17 Mr. Nick Carlan 22 Mr. Paul Poirier McIntyre 27 Ms Margaret Williams 36 Mr. Réne Jacques and Mr. Ken Koekstat 44 Mr. Bruck Easton 49 Mr. Bill Horne 57 Mme Mireille Whissell 63 Ms Marguerite Villamizar 71 Ms Pat Malicki 80 Mr. George Crowell 87 Mr. Richard Langs 94 Mr. Fred Plexman, continued 98 Reply by / Réplique par: Mr. Bruce Taylor 99 Presentation by / Présentation par: Mme Mina Grossman-Iani 101 Ms Susan Haig 112 Mr. David Palmer 122 StenoTran iii TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES PAGE Reply by / Réplique par: Mr. Bruce Taylor 126 Presentation by / Présentation par: Ms Antonia Dominato 127 Ms Jane Cacciavillani 140 Mme Nicole Germain 143 Ms Sarah Trusty and Ms Arlene Traynor 154 Ms Angie Chang, Mr. John Chan and Mr. Emil Nakhle 160 Mr. Paul Rousseau 165 Mr. Peter Wilkinson and Ms Kathy McCrone 172 Mr. Howard Pawley 183 Mr. Jonathan Sachs 192 Ms Sandra Pupatello 195 Mr. Roland Marentette 202 Ms JoAnne Merritt 206 Mr. Paul Hartel 213 Ms Nora McLaren 219 Ms. Kerri Kavanaugh, Ms Summer Turnbull 223 and Ernest Chaisson Mr. Nicholas Shields 228 Reply by / Réplique par: Mr. Taylor 230 StenoTran iv TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES PAGE Presentation by / Présentation par: Mr. Corey Tomkimson 233 Reply by / Réplique par: Mr. Taylor 239 StenoTran 1 1 Windsor, Ontario / Windsor (Ontario) 2 --- Upon commencing on Thursday, March 18, 1999 3 at 1300 / L'audience commence le jeudi 4 18 mars 1999 à 1300 5 1 THE CHAIRPERSON: Good afternoon, 6 ladies and gentlemen. My name is Joan Pennefather. 7 I'm a Commissioner with the CRTC. I would like to 8 welcome you to this public consultation on the CBC. 9 2 Thanks to the interests in this 10 community, my colleague Barbara Cram is in the other 11 room receiving an equal number of people this afternoon 12 and this evening, and we thank you for your 13 co-operation. 14 3 As you know -- 15 --- Off microphone / Sans microphone 16 4 THE CHAIRPERSON: Sorry? 17 --- Off microphone / Sans microphone 18 5 THE CHAIRPERSON: That's why I did 19 the test. 20 6 Where is our technician? Is he 21 behind me? Okay. I'm notorious for the voice 22 dropping, so thank you for telling me. 23 7 Should I repeat or did we get the 24 gist of it? 25 --- Off microphone / Sans microphone StenoTran 2 1 8 THE CHAIRPERSON: Repeat? 2 9 As I was saying we have such an 3 expression of interest on this public consultation in 4 Windsor that we have separated it into two rooms. My 5 colleague Barbara Cram who is also a Commissioner is 6 hearing an equal group of people this afternoon and 7 this evening in the room adjacent to us. 8 10 My name is Joan Pennefather. 9 11 We are here to gather your views and 10 comments on CBC radio and television. 11 12 In your opinion, how should the 12 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation fulfil its role in 13 the coming years? 14 13 The CBC is a national public service, 15 broadcasting in English as well as in French. It plays 16 an important role in the Canadian Broadcasting system. 17 14 Today, many elements are constantly 18 being added to the broadcasting system as new 19 technologies multiply, converge, open up new horizons 20 and increasingly offer new services. In this context, 21 we want to know what are your needs and expectations as 22 viewers and listeners of the CBC. 23 15 Nous sommes ici pour recueillir vos 24 points de vue et vos commentaires sur la radio et la 25 télévision de Radio-Canada. Comment croyez-vous que StenoTran 3 1 Radio-Canada devrait remplir son rôle dans les années à 2 venir? Voilà le genre de questions auxquelles nous 3 voulons entendre vos réponses. 4 16 Il est très important pour le Conseil 5 d'entendre ce que vous avez à dire à ce sujet. Il ne 6 faut pas oublier que le CRTC est un organisme public au 7 service des citoyens et citoyennes. À ce titre, il a 8 une responsabilité envers eux. C'est pourquoi mes 9 collègues-conseillers et moi-même trouvons essentiel de 10 venir vous rencontrer. 11 17 Nous sommes donc présents dans onze 12 villes canadiennes du 9 au 18 mars inclusivement pour 13 tenir cette série de consultations régionales d'un bout 14 à l'autre du pays. 15 18 As I just said, it is very important 16 that the Commission hears what you have to say. We 17 must not lose sight of the fact that the CRTC is a 18 public organization that serves Canadian citizens. In 19 this capacity, we are responsible to you. This is why 20 my fellow Commissioners and myself find it vital to 21 come and meet with you to discuss these issues and why 22 we are holding this series of regional consultations, 23 from one end of the country to the other, in 24 11 Canadian cities, from March 9 to March 18 inclusive. 25 19 These consultations are designed to StenoTran 4 1 give you a chance, on the eve of the new millennium, to 2 express your opinion on the CBC's role, the programming 3 it offers and the direction it should take at the 4 national, regional and local levels. 5 20 Through these consultations we hope 6 to enter into an open dialogue with you and to hear 7 your concerns. Your comments today will form part of 8 the public record which will be added to the record of 9 the public hearing on the CBC that will begin in Hull 10 next May 25th. 11 21 At this upcoming hearing in May, the 12 Commission will examine the CBC's application for the 13 renewal of its licences including radio, television and 14 its speciality services, Newsworld and Réseau de 15 l'information. You can also take part in that public 16 hearing by sending your written comments to the CRTC. 17 If you wish to do so, please remember to refer to the 18 specific licence renewals being examined when you file 19 your comments. 20 22 Tous vos commentaires feront partie 21 du dossier public. Il sera lui-même ajouté à celui de 22 l'audience publique qui s'ouvrira à Hull le 25 mai 23 prochain. C'est au cours de cette audience que le 24 Conseil étudiera les demandes pour renouveler les 25 licences de radio et de télévision de Radio-Canada StenoTran 5 1 ainsi que de ses services spécialisés. 2 23 Vous pouvez aussi participer à cette 3 audience en faisant parvenir une intervention écrite au 4 CRTC. Vos observations devront alors porter 5 spécifiquement sur le renouvellement des licences en 6 question. 7 24 Now I would like to come to today's 8 consultations. 9 25 As I said at the opening of my 10 remarks, we are in two separate rooms sitting this 11 afternoon until 5:00 or until we hear everyone on the 12 list for this afternoon, and again this evening from 13 6:00 until 10:00. 14 26 I would like to introduce the CRTC 15 staff with me here today. Donald Rhéaume is our legal 16 counsel. Rod Lahay is with my colleague, Madam Cram, 17 in the adjoining room. Please feel free to call on 18 them with any questions you might have about the 19 process today or any other matter. 20 27 So that everyone will have an 21 opportunity to speak, we ask that you please limit your 22 comments to 10 minutes. 23 28 As these consultations are a forum 24 designed especially for you, and we want to listen to 25 as many participants as possible, we will not ask any StenoTran 6 1 questions unless we need clarification. 2 29 Pour que vous ayez tous l'occasion de 3 vous faire entendre, nous vous demandons de limiter 4 votre présentation à 10 minutes. Ces consultations 5 sont votre tribune à vous et nous voulons être à 6 l'écoute du plus grand nombre possible d'intervenants. 7 Nous ne poserons donc pas de questions, sauf si nous 8 avons besoin de clarification. 9 30 Après vos interventions, les 10 représentants des stations locales de Radio-Canada 11 auront également droit de parole puisque ce sont les 12 premières intéressées par les questions que nous 13 abordons aujourd'hui. 14 31 Ladies and gentlemen, at the end of 15 the session, representatives from the local CBC 16 stations will have a chance to offer their views as 17 they are naturally very interested in the issues we are 18 discussing here today. 19 32 Before we start, I would like to turn 20 to legal counsel to go over some housekeeping matters, 21 including how we are going to organize so that I don't 22 spend the entire afternoon with my back to all these 23 fine people behind me here. It's a little awkward, but 24 I'm sure we will manage. 25 33 MR. RHÉAUME: Thank you, Madam Chair. StenoTran 7 1 34 We will be calling presenters in 2 groups of 10, so we invite you to join us at the table 3 and identify yourself for the record. 4 35 Make sure you are in the right room 5 because, as discussed, there are two venues. We have a 6 CRTC staff table and a CRTC member just outside here 7 who is going to point you in the right direction. 8 36 So our first group, we are going to 9 start with: Nataley Nagy, Marguerite Dudley, Margaret 10 Williams, Fred Plexman, Bruck Easton, Priscilla 11 Connolly, Bruce Crozier, Ken Koekstat, Nick Carlan, 12 Paul Poirier McIntyre. 13 37 THE CHAIRPERSON: Could everyone who 14 was named come to the table right away and then we can 15 just go from one participant to the next in this first 16 group of 10 and then probably take a break at that 17 point. Anywhere at the table. 18 38 MR. RHÉAUME: Could you kindly 19 identify yourself for the record, starting with 20 Nataley Nagy. 21 39 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: She is not 22 here. 23 40 MR. RHÉAUME: She is not here. Could 24 she be in the next room? Well, we will come back to 25 Nataley Nagy. StenoTran 8 1 41 Marguerite Dudley. 2 42 MS DUDLEY: Margaret Dudley. 3 43 MR. RHÉAUME: Margaret Dudley. I'm 4 sorry. 5 44 THE CHAIRPERSON: You can start any 6 time you are ready. 7 45 MS DUDLEY: Okay. 8 46 THE CHAIRPERSON: And if you would 9 push the little button on your microphone. 10 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 11 47 MS DUDLEY: I'm an avid listener/ 12 watcher. I don't come from any institutional 13 background, but I am moved, just as the fellow in the 14 MacLean's article said, that this is a grassroots 15 appeal and it's really interesting seeing this 16 yesterday in the MacLean's Magazine. 17 48 What I wanted to point out is how I 18 felt about CBC. Okay? 19 49 I want to use the analogy of eye 20 glasses. Up until about a few years ago I used to wear 21 very thick lenses, very thick, and I used to see the 22 world in a very clear way, from the inside out. But 23 when people looked at me through my glasses, they saw 24 lots of little facets of glass and very often they 25 didn't see the real me from that. StenoTran 9 1 50 Looking at the CBC, from me looking 2 out, it's very clear what the CBC does for me. But 3 perhaps you people looking in are looking at all the 4 little facets and perhaps I can express my clear view 5 of the CBC. 6 51 I was called "four eyes" when I was 7 younger because of my glasses, and I'm using that as a 8 way to go about pointing out the aspects of CBC. Four 9 "I"s: "I" for independence, "I" for identity, "I" for 10 immediacy, and "I" for international image. 11 52 The first one "independence". I have 12 to stress that the CBC must remain in the public 13 domain. It is a value for its objectivity to avoid 14 privatization. I really believe that we have to avoid 15 the hidden agendas of multinational corporations or 16 individual media moguls. I think that the CBC has to 17 remain independent from political influence, at the 18 national level and, simultaneously, independent at the 19 local level so that we can relate the big picture to 20 our own community in a very objective way. 21 53 Which gets me to the second "I", 22 which is "identity". 23 54 Essex County is an appendage of 24 Canada. It is the southern most tip. A lot of people 25 refer to it in many different ways, some of them a StenoTran 10 1 little bit negative, but I like to think of us as 2 jutting right into the heart of the northeastern 3 industrialized United States. Because of that, being 4 so -- jutting into a very alien area -- we are 5 surrounded on three sides by media. It's like a 6 hurricane. Sometimes there are radio stations blasting 7 at us from all sides. The CBC is like the eye of the 8 storm. 9 55 For us in Essex County, the CBC gives 10 us the view to the rest of Canada because we only have 11 a certain view. Nearsighted people will look north and 12 see the Detroit skyline and nearsighted people will not 13 look farther north to the rest of Canada, our family. 14 This is why the CBC has to do that for us. It's 15 important that the Windsor CBC station be a window for 16 us to the world, our neighbours to the south, and it is 17 also a window to our own Canadian family. 18 56 And that comes back to something 19 else, because there are some days that I don't want to 20 look at all the facets of Canadian society. I don't 21 have that time. I want to be able to wake up in the 22 morning, get the traffic and get the weather, and I 23 want an immediate response from CBC. That immediacy is 24 necessary at the local level. 25 57 I don't want to listen to all the StenoTran 11 1 weather reports from Quinte, Northumberland, whatever, 2 as is what is happening now with this strike that is 3 going on. I want to know exactly what is happening 4 today. If there is a meningitis epidemic in a 5 neighbouring town, I want the information now, 6 immediately on CBC. I don't want to listen to a whole 7 myriad of aspects from Toronto. We must have local 8 broadcasts and it has to be integrated, radio and TV. 9 I believe our station here is doing that very well. 10 58 The fourth "I" is international 11 image. I had a colleague, a friend of mine, who 12 lectured throughout North America. She always told me 13 that she made a point, when she was in this listening 14 area, to listen to As It Happens because she valued the 15 kind of coverage, that international image to the 16 world, the window to the world that a lot of American 17 stations didn't have. 18 59 CBC has excellence. There is 19 international image with David Suzuki, Peter Gzowski. 20 These are the people that if they were in another 21 country, and you know which, they would be exalted. 22 They would be given much more status, much more money 23 for the value that they do. They are the undersung 24 heroes of CBC. 25 60 As a final thought, there is another StenoTran 12 1 "I", and that is "integration". I really believe that 2 in order for us to go into the new millennium, there is 3 going to have to be integration of radio, TV, 4 Radio-Canada and English Canada in order for us to go 5 into the next millennium. The CBC plays a strong and 6 important role in that. 7 61 Thank you. 8 62 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 9 much, Ms Dudley. 10 63 We will go on to our next 11 participant. 12 64 MR. RHÉAUME: Margaret Williams. Is 13 Margaret Williams in the room? We will come back 14 later. 15 65 Mr. Fred Plexman. 16 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 17 66 MR. PLEXMAN: Good afternoon. 18 67 My name is Fred Plexman. I'm here to 19 speak as an individual. I am not associated with any 20 group. 21 68 My topknot may not be quite as long 22 as yours because I have just written down some very 23 short notes. 24 69 CBC radio has been very important in 25 my life. I have been listening to these stations in StenoTran 13 1 one way or another since I was a child growing up in 2 Sudbury. It is more important to me now than it ever 3 has been, seeing as it is the only station in this area 4 that we do not get bombarded with U.S. news. 5 70 It's important that we have this 6 Canadian presence. In fact, we do hear comments 7 periodically that the Americans listen to CBC because 8 it is a good station. This keeps me in touch with 9 Canadian news, local, regional and national. We also 10 get international coverage, which I don't believe is as 11 biased as we get from other areas. 12 71 It's unfortunate the present strike 13 is cutting some of the coverage we get. I do miss the 14 5:30 CBC evening news on the television station. It is 15 the one thing that I regularly watch on CBC TV. 16 72 When my wife and I travel up to our 17 camp north of Sudbury, we turn on the radio and we 18 switch from station to station to keep CBC on the 19 radio. It's important to us we don't miss the 20 programming we like. It is continuous. We can pick it 21 up across the country. When we do get to the camp, the 22 radio is tuned to the Sudbury CBC stations so we don't 23 miss the programs we normally listen to. 24 73 Thank you. 25 74 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, StenoTran 14 1 Mr. Plexman. We appreciate your being here. We were 2 just in Sudbury the other day so we are following -- 3 75 MR. PLEXMAN: I have heard something 4 about this. 5 76 THE CHAIRPERSON: Good. 6 77 We will go on to our next 7 participant. 8 78 MR. RHÉAUME: Mr. Bruck Easton, 9 please step forward. 10 79 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He is not 11 here. 12 80 MR. RHÉAUME: He is not here? 13 81 Welcome back. 14 82 Priscilla Connolly. 15 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 16 83 MS CONNOLLY: I'm going to read my 17 presentation in case I lose my train of thought. 18 84 I am here today because the CBC is 19 very important to me personally and also of special 20 importance to this part of the country. Being a border 21 city, we are subjected to massive amounts of American 22 media and it is essential that we maintain a Canadian 23 presence and a strong voice in this area. 24 85 Where else can we tune into such 25 programs as Ideas, Tapestry, As It Happens, Cross StenoTran 15 1 Country Check-up, not to mention This Week In 2 Parliament on Sunday mornings? We do not get this type 3 of programming from any other source. On CBC Radio Two 4 we have a variety of classical music programs and also 5 opera. Since the demise of WQRS, there does not seem 6 to be any other source of classical music in this area. 7 86 I am more of a radio listener than a 8 TV watcher, but I do depend on the CBC for newscasts, 9 both national and local. I would like to stress that I 10 think the local news is very well covered by excellent 11 reporters. 12 87 The regional news reports on 13 Newsworld give us a snapshot view of what is happening 14 and the concerns of people in other parts of our large 15 country and so give us some sense of being part of a 16 larger whole. 17 88 The budget cutbacks have already had 18 a severe effect on programming, both in content and 19 presentation. If the CBC is to fulfil its mandate, it 20 is essential that the government be persuaded that the 21 people both want and are behind the CBC and that budget 22 cuts must stop. On the CBC's part, it is imperative 23 that they keep up the quality of their programs so that 24 the listeners and watchers will feel that their loyalty 25 is deserved. StenoTran 16 1 89 The closing of so many overseas 2 bureaus, the latest being Paris and South Africa, does 3 not seem to me to be the way to keep up the quality I 4 mentioned. There must be other places where economies 5 could be made with less drastic results. This trend is 6 most disturbing. 7 90 The present strike of technicians has 8 brought home to me very forcibly how much I depend on 9 our local programming and how bereft I feel without the 10 5:30 and 11:30 channel 9 news. Thank goodness for The 11 Morning Show. They do their very best with limited 12 resources. 13 91 In closing, I would appeal to the 14 government to stop the cutbacks. Stop clipping the 15 wings of the CBC and realize that people such as myself 16 want the CBC not only to continue but to grow. 17 92 Thank you. 18 93 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 19 much, Mrs. Connolly. 20 94 As I mentioned at the beginning, a 21 lack of questions does not mean lack of interest. We 22 are more concerned to hear what you have to say in 23 these sessions, and there are many people to speak. So 24 we will proceed without the questions, but please don't 25 take that as a lack of interest. StenoTran 17 1 95 Our next speaker. 2 96 MR. RHÉAUME: Mr. Bruce Crozier. 3 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 4 97 MR. CROZIER: Thank you, Madam Chair. 5 98 I want to thank the Commission for 6 coming to Windsor and Essex county and I want to thank 7 you for allowing us the time to address you today. 8 99 Windsor and Essex County, if you 9 don't already know, is the sun parlour of Canada, or is 10 known as such, and it borders on the tomato capital of 11 Canada. While I'm here supporting the CBC, I have to 12 get that in as well. 13 100 Although, I am the member of 14 provincial parliament for Essex South, I'm appearing as 15 much today as a private citizen and a long-time 16 listener to the CBC. 17 101 I have been an avid CBC viewer and 18 listener for many years. Due to the limited time that 19 we have today and the opportunity we want to give to 20 everyone to speak to you, I will confine my comments to 21 CBC radio in hopes that others will address their 22 remarks to the television. 23 102 I am unilingual, at least at this 24 point in my life, but I appreciate the value of the 25 French network Radio-Canada and support its existence. StenoTran 18 1 103 To the question of how well does the 2 CBC fulfil its role as the national public broadcaster, 3 I want to give you a few examples of how I feel it does 4 fulfil that role. 5 104 I think of programs such as As It 6 Happens with Mary Lou Finlay and Barbara Budd, Cross 7 Country Check-up with Rex Murphy, The House with Jason 8 Moscovitz and This Morning with Averil Benoit and 9 Michael Enright. Over time, things will change, but I 10 think these are examples of both national and regional 11 programming that make CBC radio what it is. 12 105 To the question of the new 13 millennium. 14 106 Over time of course things will 15 change. In the new millennium, will we be different on 16 January 1st, 2000? I think not. Will we be any 17 different in June of the Year 2000? Maybe. But 18 certainly in June of 2010 we will have changed a great 19 deal and I would hope that the CBC, as it has in the 20 past, will continue to change with the times. 21 107 How well does the CBC serve the 22 public on a regional as well as a national level? I 23 think again of those programs that are produced 24 locally: Morning Watch, which covers Windsor, Essex 25 County, Sarnia and Chatham-Kent with business news, StenoTran 19 1 finance news, particularly news about the auto industry 2 and municipal affairs; Crosstown is an afternoon 3 program that's normally produced in this area, 4 notwithstanding any minor inconveniences that we may 5 suffer at the present time, but that also covers a 6 range of entertainment issues in the area and has a 7 variety of programming that serves us on a regional 8 basis. 9 108 If there is one suggestion I could 10 make, it would be -- and I may have a vested interest 11 in this -- that there be a provincial program similar 12 to The House, because that covers federal issues. It 13 would have a provincial perspective, one that perhaps 14 in each of our regions of the country could involve the 15 provincial legislatures in their area. 16 "Should the programming provided 17 by CBC radio and television be 18 different from that provided by 19 other broadcasters? If so, what 20 should the differences be?" 21 (As read) 22 109 I think that CBC must maintain the 23 distinction between public and private broadcasting. 24 Private broadcasting, to me, is the commercial venue 25 and they then have to satisfy certain commercial StenoTran 20 1 interests. 2 110 It was mentioned earlier today, 3 earlier at this session, of the control, I believe, of 4 some of the media in this country. I think in 5 particular of the print media. I believe that we 6 somehow have to have that national and local 7 perspective that is not necessarily controlled by 8 private interests and for commercial reasons. 9 111 It is difficult for the CBC, because 10 they want to maintain that special Canadian 11 programming, but the CBC should be almost exclusively 12 Canadian in its programming. That is not to say that 13 programming from other countries may not be used, but I 14 think it always must be used in the context which 15 applies to Canada. 16 112 This is difficult I know because it 17 is publicly funded and publicly funded programs -- in 18 the broad sense of programs, anything that is publicly 19 funded has to be very careful of how it serves the 20 public. The CBC, of course, its budget is controlled 21 by the government of the day and to the extent that the 22 CBC can, I think it must maintain independence and I 23 encourage the federal government to provide stable and 24 adequate funding for the CBC. 25 113 In conclusion, I would like to StenoTran 21 1 emphasize that, in my view, the CBC should continue to 2 play an important and unique role in North America, and 3 for that matter in broadcasting in the world. 4 114 We are a border city here. We are 5 influenced a great deal by the United States. In fact, 6 a little known fact may be that if you go on the 7 cardinal points of the compass 200 miles in any 8 direction from where you are sitting now you would be 9 in the United States. North you would be in Michigan, 10 west you would be in Illinois, south you would be in 11 Ohio and on the east you would be in -- and I'm not 12 sure, but New York State or Pennsylvania. So we are 13 very unique here in that we are surrounded by the 14 United States. We need the CBC. 15 115 Opinions may vary, but in my view the 16 CBC presents quality, balanced Canadian programming and 17 it should build on an outstanding history for the 18 future. 19 116 Thank you. 20 117 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 21 much, Mr. Crozier. Thank you for being here today. 22 118 Our next participant. 23 119 MR. RHÉAUME: Senior Constable Ken 24 Koekstat. Not here. 25 120 Mr. Nick Carlan. StenoTran 22 1 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 2 121 MR. CARLAN: Thank you very much. 3 Good afternoon to the Commissioners. I will read most 4 of my thoughts and I will add to them later. 5 122 In response to your first inquiry, 6 "Does the CBC fulfil its role as a national public 7 broadcaster", I feel very strong, along with my family 8 members, that the CBC has performed extremely well and 9 we are very appreciative of it and the continued future 10 of the CBC. 11 123 We enjoy the TV radio programs. As I 12 am retired, we have a lasting -- excuse me. I have my 13 sentences mixed here. 14 124 We do feel, in my case, our mornings 15 are filled with the Morningside. At one time, Max 16 Ferguson -- I don't know if you remember him? 17 125 THE CHAIRPERSON: I do. 18 126 MR. CARLAN: You do. And 19 Peter Gzowski and Michael Enright. So we have a full 20 morning which we enjoy thoroughly. As a retired 21 person, that means a lot to many of us. 22 127 We are kept informed each half hour 23 during the afternoon by Bob Bishop and Tommy Aubin(ph) 24 with the news breaks that come about, and which you 25 spoke about. We feel very good about that as because StenoTran 23 1 of the news breaks we have that news information. 2 128 The programs are very adequate and 3 there is no reason to change them, we don't think, I 4 don't think. They fulfil my needs as far as a TV and 5 radio listener. 6 129 We feel that the content and the 7 delivery are very, very good. They are very 8 entertaining. There are human interest stories which 9 are brought about during the day, without a strike, 10 say, you know. 11 130 We can suggest that appealing to the 12 younger people, that the CBC would try to attract 13 younger people to listen to the CBC in whatever plans 14 they would have. I understand that there is a big 15 group between 20 years of age and 49. They are a major 16 part of the population in that the CBC can consider 17 targeting or focusing on those people. 18 131 Sometimes I visit my friends and if 19 they are not listening to CBC I leave because I want to 20 listen to the CBC, so they turn it on. I will not stay 21 where there is no CBC news radio. 22 --- Laughter / Rires 23 132 MR. CARLAN: Pardon me? 24 --- Laughter / Rires 25 133 MR. CARLAN: I say "Turn it on 17 StenoTran 24 1 or 9 or I'm gone." 2 --- Laughter / Rires 3 134 MR. CARLAN: The CBC has always had 4 or been a major symbol of being a proud Canadian. It 5 has a spirit and a body. Look around. We are an 6 institution of Canadians and again to say the CBC is 7 the main ingredient of being a proud Canadian. 8 135 We do have the art gallery, the 9 symphony, the local theatres and sports events; but I 10 think the CBC pulls all that together, and I can truly 11 say that I'm Canadian rather than an American, because 12 we live so close. 13 136 The CBC has been a different source 14 of communication. It does not verge on mind control. 15 That's happening on some TV programs at the moment. 16 The bombardment of political ads are too much. I think 17 they are excessive and there should be some control or 18 a code of some kind. But I don't feel that I should be 19 propagandized by stations, as Mr. Crozier said, who 20 have a commercial agenda. Therefore, that strengthens 21 my belief in the CBC as being a more neutral 22 communicator. 23 137 I feel that the CBC has been brave 24 and proud, both. I can remember a report on a town 25 hall meeting and Mr. Chrétien was very upset with some StenoTran 25 1 of the programming, but I thought that the CBC was very 2 brave at that time. Even in spite of his utterances, 3 the CBC stuck with the story. 4 138 The CBC should not be threatened. It 5 should have a free functioning of their operation. It 6 should not be subject to financial threats. It has to 7 be truly a free communicator to the people. I realize 8 that this is asking a lot for the people that run the 9 CBC, but that has to be done in order that that be a 10 viable organization in the future. 11 139 I don't know if you know Windsor at 12 all. A little, do you? 13 140 THE CHAIRPERSON: A little and I must 14 confess my father grew up here. 15 141 MR. CARLAN: Pardon me? 16 142 THE CHAIRPERSON: My dad grew up 17 here. 18 143 MR. CARLAN: Oh, I see. Okay. 19 That's fine. 20 144 Because not only do we produce good 21 television, we produce good producers and journalists 22 such as Costi Veragus(ph), Carol McNeil, 23 Sue Prestage(ph), Eric Sorensen. It goes on and on. I 24 don't know what Toronto would do without Windsor. 25 --- Laughter / Rires StenoTran 26 1 145 MR. CARLAN: So it is very important 2 that we are at the -- our metropolitan population -- 3 this is from the Financial Post, by the way, our 4 population is it 280,000. It is going to be in the 5 year 2002 over 300,000. So The Star suggested that 6 maybe the CBC was on demise, but I think that you 7 should look forward to expanding the facilities of the 8 CBC because our population is expanding. 9 146 Also, there is some data on the TV 10 stations and CBC ranks very, very high. It ranks at 11 49 per cent. I'm just not too sure of the reading of 12 these surveys, you know, but if you would like a copy 13 of this I will leave this with you. So there is no 14 reduction of audience. 15 147 Percy Hatfield is here. He mentioned 16 to me about the strike or the rally of 1990. We had 17 over 10,000 people at that rally and the CBC was closed 18 for four years. I think everyone here would remember 19 that vacuum. It was terrible. You know, when you want 20 the news and you have to turn on an American station. 21 This gives you a very empty feeling. 22 148 But the man that closed the CBC down 23 is now living in New York. So maybe if you want to put 24 this down: the man that intends to do anything with 25 the CBC here might end up in Newfoundland or wherever. StenoTran 27 1 --- Laughter / Rires 2 149 MR. CARLAN: So we urge your 3 Commission to take our message back to -- I guess you 4 have a May meeting, that there is no weak links with 5 the community and CBC. We are very strong, we have a 6 future ahead of us, and the CBC has made us truly proud 7 Canadians. 8 150 Thank you very much. 9 151 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 10 much, Mr. Carlan. 11 152 Our next participant. 12 153 MR. RHÉAUME: Mr. Paul 13 Poirier McIntyre. 14 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 15 154 MR. McINTYRE: Thank you, 16 Madam Chairman. 17 155 People know me here as Paul McIntyre. 18 I put my middle name in to remind me to say that my 19 grandfather came from the Gaspé, so I have some claim 20 perhaps to both sides of our country. 21 156 I think I would like to begin with a 22 little gloss on something the previous speaker said. 23 157 Every time I see Peter Jennings on 24 the nightly news, I'm reminded how much the American 25 networks are indebted to the CBC, for that's where he StenoTran 28 1 learned and many others learned their trade. 2 158 I'm a Canadian by birth and I have 3 lived in Windsor since 1970. Until two years ago, I 4 was a professor of music at the University of Windsor. 5 I try to continue to be active as a musician, 6 especially as a composer. I mention that because I 7 want to say something about that later. 8 159 I want to try to organize myself in 9 three -- before I even say that, I want to recommend to 10 the Commissioners the editorial in today's Windsor Star 11 which welcomes you to Windsor and has quite a bit to 12 say. I agree with a very large part of it. I do not 13 wish to be associated with the hint that perhaps the 14 CRTC should put itself out of business, which was the 15 last sentence in the editorial. I might have one or 16 two other comments later, but I think there is a lot of 17 valuable suggestion there for you. 18 160 So I would like to try to organize 19 myself into three different categories here in 20 10 minutes. I would like to make one or two -- and 21 these are all my own personal views -- one or two 22 comments about the CBC generally; I would like to say 23 one or two things about our local situation here with 24 regard to the CBC, and that has been referred to in 25 several different ways; and I want to say a couple of StenoTran 29 1 things from the point of view that I'm a composer. 2 161 So the CBC generally. I think the 3 first thing I want to say is we absolutely must have 4 either the CBC or something that fulfils the same 5 functions for us. 6 162 I was looking in a pocket atlas the 7 other day and discovered that until recently Canada was 8 one of the three largest geopolitical units in the 9 world, the other two being of course the Soviet Union, 10 which is no longer there, and China. Now, the Soviet 11 Union and China hold themselves together by methods 12 that are largely unworkable in a democracy. We hold 13 the country together very heavily by electronics. 14 Somebody has to pay for the electronics, and at the 15 moment it is the government but the government seems to 16 be having difficulties. 17 163 Which brings me to my second point 18 about the CBC generally. I may appear to be wanting to 19 toss at somebody one of the products of the tomato 20 capital of Canada but I'm not sure where the missile 21 belongs exactly, so what I will say is there are two 22 givens here. There is the given of the continuing and 23 very severe government cuts, and there is the other 24 given which is perhaps in the rumour that accuses the 25 CBC in some of its news coverage of being unfair. StenoTran 30 1 164 If this is true, if the government 2 has no other means to deal with unfairness in the news 3 coverage of the government than to turn off the taps 4 and close the ship down, then I think we have a very 5 serious problem of management, and I don't want to say 6 anything more about it. 7 165 I mean, I appreciate and I support 8 the notion that the CBC has to be independent 9 politically, but at the same time, well, forgive me, if 10 the Emperor is paying your salary indirectly or 11 directly, it isn't a very good idea to indulge in 12 criticism of his clothes. That's my view of the thing, 13 but I realize it's a very complicated question. 14 166 Now, having tossed my missile in, may 15 I go to the place of the CBC in this community as I 16 have experienced it over the last nearly 30 years. 17 167 Reference was made a few moments ago 18 to the closure of the local CBC outlet for four years 19 beginning in 1990. The local understanding was, to 20 make matters worse, that the reason behind this was a 21 purely political thing, that it had nothing really to 22 do with quality or anything else. If you want me to 23 enlarge on that, I would be glad to, and I don't want 24 to sound like an elephant with a long memory. 25 168 The fact remains that even after the StenoTran 31 1 restoration of the news broadcasts, in my personal 2 view, the quality has never returned to the level that 3 it was before. I think this is all very important 4 because I think that the local CBC outlet, and this has 5 been said in various ways, is one of the most important 6 functions, one of the most important means that we have 7 of holding the community together. 8 169 If we want to know what is going on 9 in the community, we are more likely to look for the 10 answer on television on a day-to-day basis. We will 11 find it, yes, in the Windsor Star, but we will find it 12 in a more immediate and perhaps more contemporary way 13 on television. If that is being impeded, I think it's 14 too bad and I think the CBC is not fulfilling for us 15 one of its primary functions. 16 170 But there is another angle to all of 17 this, and it is hinted at in the editorial today. 18 Fine, when we do have local news back, when the strike 19 is over, it will probably be again at 5:30 in the 20 afternoon, which is a little bit early for most people 21 coming home from work and to supper. Then we are 22 treated to a whole hour of local news from Toronto, 23 which is all very well as long as Toronto is talking 24 about provincial matters and less interesting when 25 Toronto begins talking about some local school board StenoTran 32 1 election or something like that. I question whether it 2 has to be a full hour. Then of course we have no news 3 until ten o'clock when we have The National followed by 4 The Magazine and then, presumably, we could have our 5 own look at the community at 11:00. No, we have to see 6 The National again. This one puzzles me completely. I 7 don't know why that should be, but I want to toss it in 8 there and let you consider that little problem. 9 171 Another comment on the local scene, 10 and this is something that I have never seen anybody 11 address. It has been said that within an hour of where 12 we sit there are about 12 million people, and we can 13 get their broadcasts. We can pull in Toledo very 14 nicely in South Windsor. Why has somebody not thought 15 about using the Windsor outlets, both radio and 16 television, as a means of communicating what is going 17 on in this country more fully to these other people? 18 I'm talking now missionary, I'm talking international 19 service, I'm talking culture as international trade 20 stimulation, et cetera, et cetera. I think somebody is 21 missing an opportunity there. That 12 million people 22 is equal to about a third of the total population in 23 this country and it is, as has been said, a very active 24 and rich part of that other country that we don't 25 mention. StenoTran 33 1 172 Now, my third category, I want to say 2 something which has nothing really to do with Windsor. 3 173 There are a lot of composers in this 4 country. The last time I counted, there were 200 5 members of the Canadian League of Composers. I know it 6 has gone way up since I last looked. It may be double 7 that. We have produced an enormous amount of music and 8 it is good music. Yes, the CBC has been very helpful 9 to us over the years in various and sundry ways, going 10 all the way back to the international service 11 recordings of the thirties and forties and fifties, 12 which were disseminated around the world. There was a 13 sort of crystallization of this relationship with the 14 CBC and composers in the seventies which -- the content 15 laws, the Canadian content guidelines. 16 174 Now, what is puzzling me, and I only 17 cite an example here, the CBC as we know has also a 18 recording wing; they make records. 19 175 Now, the other year, one of these 20 recordings came out which interested me very much. It 21 was a recording by a singer, an opera and concert 22 singer from Winnipeg by the name of Edith Viens who has 23 an international career, and wonderful. She made a 24 very beautiful recording, there was a very beautiful 25 accompanist. What was the music she recorded? It was StenoTran 34 1 songs of Richard Strauss, who was one of the greatest 2 composers of the twentieth century, but he is also one 3 of the most overrecorded, if anything, composers of the 4 twentieth century and, as you may have guessed by now 5 if you didn't know already, a German composer. I have 6 nothing against that, but I haven't yet figured out why 7 the CBC is going to all this trouble to record the 8 music of a German composer who is already overrecorded. 9 176 It has been suggested to me that one 10 of the reasons was so that the CBC could then broadcast 11 Strauss songs, which are beautiful and everybody loves 12 them who knows them, and call it Canadian content 13 because the singer is Canadian, which I suggest is 14 perfectly legitimate within the guidelines as they are, 15 but I am tempted to say maybe it is time to review the 16 guidelines if the CBC is skating around a kind of hole 17 in the ice there. 18 177 I think I have probably exceeded my 19 10 minutes. I thank you, Madam Chairman, for your 20 patience. 21 178 THE CHAIRPERSON: You are just on the 22 mark, Mr. McIntyre. Well timed, as it should be for a 23 musician. 24 179 Thank you very much. 25 180 I think what we will do is go through StenoTran 35 1 the -- 2 181 MR. CARLAN: Madam Chair, 3 Margaret Williams is here now. 4 182 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes. You are ahead 5 of me there, Mr. Carlan. We had you earlier, and if 6 you would like to join us at the table, Margaret. 7 183 We also had Bruck Easton, 8 Nataley Nagy. 9 --- Off microphone / Sans microphone 10 184 THE CHAIRPERSON: Sergeant Constable, 11 could you come to the table? 12 185 For those who just joined us, we were 13 working in groups of 10 and you were part of the 14 first 10. 15 --- Pause / Pause 16 186 THE CHAIRPERSON: If you could say 17 who you are for the record as you begin to speak and 18 who is with you this afternoon. 19 187 Ms Dudley just noted that she would 20 like to add a comment or two. I think we will hear the 21 other speakers and then I'm watching my small but 22 effective timepiece and see how we are doing with time 23 after. 24 188 So if I could ask Margaret Williams. 25 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION StenoTran 36 1 189 MS WILLIAMS: My name is 2 Margaret Williams and I'm Windsor City Councillor. Our 3 Mayor, Michael Hurst, regrets that he is unable to be 4 here today in person. He is sunning himself in 5 Florida, but he asked me to convey his regrets, and 6 also would like to welcome you to the City of Windsor, 7 Canada's southern most city. 8 190 Let me say at the outset that the 9 City of Windsor strongly endorses the renewal of CBC 10 licences. 11 191 There was a late change of venue for 12 this hearing from the Caboto Club to the Hilton Hotel. 13 I must say that we are delighted with this change. In 14 the city's many appearances before this Commission, and 15 I appeared last year before the Commission in London, 16 Ontario, it has never been possible to truly explain 17 the unique nature of Windsor, its needs, its concerns 18 and its challenges. 19 192 Now the Commission is on our 20 doorstep, so take a good look around. Just out in the 21 street in front, one cold December a few years ago, 22 8,000 Windsor and area citizens demonstrated for the 23 resumption of the local TV CBC news. Fifty-seven 24 thousand people in the space of two weeks signed a 25 petition to request restoration of service. We doubt StenoTran 37 1 this expression of the need for the CBC and for its 2 local service could have happened anywhere else in 3 Canada. 4 193 In its time, the Commission has heard 5 many a protest to permit more and more American 6 services. Here was a much larger instance of protest. 7 It was a case of Canadians vehemently demanding at 8 least some kind of parity with other Canadians in 9 receiving full local television service. 10 194 Since that time, a number of events 11 have happened. The CBC partially restored its service 12 to more than half of its former offering. CHWI 13 television came on the scene with 10 hours a week of 14 local Windsor news and affairs, material gathered by a 15 staff in Windsor which is assembled and presented from 16 CHUM's CFPL London studio, and certainly a situation 17 much improved from five years ago. 18 195 But what we want to share with you 19 now has much to do with the view from the front of this 20 hotel. Metropolitan Detroit, twice the size of 21 Toronto, overwhelms us with its media presence. 22 Something like 54 radio and 14 TV stations converge in 23 this area. We are awash in U.S. media, as you well 24 see. Those concerned demonstrators were people who 25 love this country, wish to participate fully in it and StenoTran 38 1 want their children to grow up as real Canadians. 2 196 What brought the demonstrators out 3 into the street below was the huge sense of loss, of 4 abandonment in our desire to retain our Canadianism. 5 Not just our national identity was at stake, our sense 6 of community was threatened. Let me try to explain why 7 this was so important. 8 197 Many things in the administration and 9 development of a community can only happen in the 10 presence of informed and participating citizens. 11 Without any local TV news and public affairs, a growing 12 apathy was noticed. New initiatives were more 13 difficult to present and to engender support. 14 198 Now when you see the skyscrapers 15 across the water, you should know that Windsor has 16 finally achieved its decades' old dream of securing for 17 its public an uninterrupted three-mile stretch of 18 waterfront park from the Ambassador Bridge to the Hiram 19 Walker distillery. The area to the west of this hotel 20 will be redeveloped and the new Windsor Art Gallery 21 will be built. Plans for other major developments are 22 near fruition, such as for a new arena and 23 entertainment centre. It is impossible to say how much 24 the restoration of TV services has contributed, but it 25 has been significant. StenoTran 39 1 199 So in terms of the questions for 2 which the Commission invited comments, we are most 3 definite that the local and regional aspects of CBC 4 radio and television are vital to us. We would suggest 5 that they are also vital to the CBC. 6 200 One of the most obvious effects when 7 the CBC removed local service was the devastating 8 result to the rest of the CBC's overall ratings. 9 Strong local programming, two hours every week day, had 10 built a large following that stayed for the prime time 11 network programming. The economic havoc caused by 12 adopting the regional format, meaning from Toronto, 13 probably far outweighed the savings from reduced 14 services. 15 201 Worst still, was the impossibility of 16 the CBC in competing significantly for the hearts and 17 minds of Canadians when stripped of its grassroots 18 support. There cannot be a clearer demonstration of 19 the vital importance of a strong local presence. This 20 is a unique capability which binds communities, can 21 then bind regions and combine a nation. 22 202 While many have indicated local 23 broadcasting is an expensive impediment to efficient 24 use of the CBC's scarce dollars, the danger is that if 25 the CBC gives up its grassroots support it will become StenoTran 40 1 so marginalized as to become insignificant and 2 inconsequential in Canadian affairs. The proof of this 3 was demonstrated in Windsor. 4 203 In spite of the overwhelming media 5 spillover, Windsor radio and TV broadcasters do secure 6 a local audience. Due to the difficulties of this 7 market, the Commission has made many special 8 concessions to maintain the viability of private radio 9 in a community. In doing so, there is an added need 10 that the Commission ensures that it strengthens the 11 Canadian elements in broadcasting in Windsor. 12 204 In particular, it should be noted 13 that in 1975, when the Commission ordered the private 14 broadcaster to relinquish control of the television 15 station to the CBC, the CBC made promises to maintain 16 and improve on the local TV programming which was 17 already in place. Because of this special contract, if 18 you will, Windsor should receive special support from 19 the CBC to maintain services more comparable to other 20 centres of similar size, especially since the CBC 21 formally committed itself to undertake that role in 22 order to secure the licence. 23 205 Another interest of the Commission is 24 the role of the CBC in the new millennium. Very 25 definitely the CBC must embrace the newer technologies StenoTran 41 1 and it must be funded to do so. Simply ending local 2 services is not the answer. One of the most important 3 messages Windsor brings to the Commission is an 4 indication of what a multichannel future can bring to 5 the rest of Canada. 6 206 Windsor stands as a warning, if you 7 like, a made-for-television case study of the problems 8 posed when Canadian content drowns in a plethora of 9 choice. Given the ease in Windsor of securing a U.S. 10 direct broadcast satellite receiver, it is remarkable 11 how relatively few there actually seem to be. This is 12 probably an indication of the need for local and 13 Canadian programming, particularly when much of this is 14 only obtainable through cable, and in many parts of the 15 county actually is not even available through cable. 16 207 A few years ago, at the time of the 17 structural framework hearings, we reported a number of 18 research findings concerning the impact of local media 19 in Ontario with specific reference to Windsor and the 20 detrimental effects on political participation and on 21 the sense of community. At this moment, Windsor's City 22 Centre Revitalization Task Force is analysing the data 23 from its in depth survey of 804 citizens of Windsor and 24 the adjacent communities. Indications are that a 25 significantly greater number of people now identify StenoTran 42 1 local broadcast news with Windsor stations and not 2 Detroit ones. 3 208 While CBC radio didn't have the 4 numbers that CBC television achieved, it certainly was 5 identified with the most educated and with those who 6 most participated in community. There was also a 7 direct correlation to voting behaviour. We hope to 8 share this research in our formal intervention. 9 209 CBC radio and television are integral 10 parts of this community, playing an active role in 11 enhancing the quality of life. Through getting out 12 into the community, providing media sponsorship of 13 cultural events and reflecting the community itself, 14 they enrich our lives. In spite of its huge size, 15 Detroit no longer has a quality classical music 16 station, radio station, because the economics simply 17 couldn't support it. We are fortunate in having the 18 CBC, and so are our Detroit neighbours. 19 210 Yes, the situation is much improved 20 from five years ago, yet we think improvements should 21 be made. From Friday night to Monday morning nothing 22 happens. There is no local live reporting on weekends. 23 There are still no local programs produced in areas 24 other than news and public affairs. But I have to say 25 that emergency warning services have improved greatly StenoTran 43 1 in the last year. We hope we don't need to use that 2 too often. 3 211 At a time in our history when unity 4 and identity are consuming issues, it is discouraging 5 to think that the broadcast media concerns of Windsor, 6 which require a strong and even strengthened CBC local 7 presence, may be jeopardized. Certainly more and 8 better national programs are most desirable. But for 9 those of us here who can see across the river, we know 10 that the strong Canadian content we want must be 11 supported by strong local radio and TV services that 12 only the CBC can provide in this area. 13 212 With specific reference to your 14 questions. 15 213 The CBC is vital to Canadian life as 16 a national broadcaster. In the new millennium, in the 17 face of ever-prolifering program choices, the CBC must 18 strengthen its local and regional grasp of the 19 audiences, embracing the new technologies such as the 20 Internet to further this goal. 21 214 In a world according to the Disney 22 Corporation, where our literature is reversioned, our 23 heroes forgotten or spun off into toy store action 24 figures, we must have a CBC which can tell our story. 25 As our few magazines become victims of split run StenoTran 44 1 economics, as commercial media interest gain entry into 2 our classrooms, we must have our voice. 3 215 The question posed Saturday in the 4 Globe and Mail was: Should the CBC be big or should it 5 be good? If we treasure Canada, it must be both. 6 216 Thank you for your kind attention, 7 Ms Pennefather. 8 217 I have some copies. 9 218 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 10 much. We would appreciate it. 11 219 If anybody is able to leave a copy of 12 your remarks with us, that would be great, although we 13 are of course putting this on the public record. 14 220 Thank you, Ms Williams, very much. 15 221 Could I ask the gentleman now, Senior 16 Constable Ken Koekstat -- am I saying that properly? 17 222 MR. KOEKSTAT: That's correct. 18 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 19 223 MR. KOEKSTAT: I would like to take 20 this opportunity to, as when I spoke to your office 21 with Crime Stoppers, we have our Chairperson, 22 Mr. Réne Jacques -- and that is J-A-C-Q-U-E-S -- and 23 they indicated to us that we would be able to share the 24 time. So I would introduce Réne at this time. 25 224 MR. JACQUES: Hello, Madam Chair, StenoTran 45 1 other guests. 2 225 As you may or may not know, Crime 3 Stoppers is a partnerships which includes the media, 4 police and the public. It operates in most of the 5 major cities within Canada and the United States. 6 226 In order for our program to be 7 successful, this has to be a working partnership that 8 allows us to get our message out. The CBC in Windsor 9 provides us with that opportunity. 10 227 However, since the TV station has 11 been restricted with the amount of programming that it 12 is able to provide to the Windsor residents, we haven't 13 been able to have the same type of coverage on a TV 14 type format that we had previous to that. 15 228 We would hope that you would be 16 looking more local content and expanding airtime within 17 the community to provide the Canadian citizens with 18 quality content and programming on the local level that 19 would enable us to do a better job at what we do, and 20 that's putting criminals behind bars. 21 229 On the other side of the coin, there 22 is the CBC radio which we do work with weekly. Ken 23 will probably talk about that. 24 230 CBC is one of a number of stations 25 within the Windsor area -- two major stations actually StenoTran 46 1 I guess, and each has their own following. We feel it 2 necessary that both of those continue to operate so 3 that we can get to everyone who is in the community. 4 We have to provide them with not just information about 5 what it is that we are seeking from them in the form of 6 tips, but also to be able to let them know how 7 successful we are. Without the CBC we wouldn't be able 8 to do that. 9 231 I will let Ken comment on some of the 10 activities that he is involved in directly with them. 11 232 MR. KOEKSTAT: Well, the reason I was 12 kind enough to let Réne go first is that I usually run 13 a little long, and I know that this is a very 14 structured format. 15 233 On a personal note, getting out and 16 about in the community, I make over 100 personal 17 appearances at service clubs, church groups, schools 18 and organizations. I guess in doing so, in my role as 19 Crime Stopper Co-ordinator, I get to meet a lot of 20 people and also I play in a band part time. I am a 21 musician, and I guess it's part time when I do about 22 62 weekends a year in a 52-week format, so I usually 23 run into 200 or 300 people per weekend. 24 234 In my personal life, I get over to 25 Detroit to concerts, music stores, autographs shows and StenoTran 47 1 various events. It's just unbelievable the amount of 2 people that do listen to CBC. In the classical format 3 you can't go to a harmony house in Michigan and not run 4 into somebody that isn't listening to the station and 5 enjoying the music. 6 235 In regards to Crime Stoppers and 7 events, we are very pro-community and one of our 8 partners is the media. Having people come up and 9 recognize you just by your voice when you haven't even 10 been introduced to people would indicate the impact 11 that that has in the community. 12 236 When we are out and about, whether it 13 be with our Crime Stopper van or one of our fundraising 14 projects, I'm sure -- we have already won the best 15 program in Ontario two years running against other 16 cities in stature as London, Hamilton, Kitchener and 17 Toronto with three million people, and it is definitely 18 due to the fact that we are getting the message out 19 through Paul Vassey(ph) and Morning Watch and that 20 source of media. 21 237 There are so many events going on and 22 I have had people come and ask me, little old me, just 23 a fellow that lives on Elm Street in Windsor, coming 24 and asking me, "How come there isn't any coverage? Why 25 isn't there any news coverage of the event? We are StenoTran 48 1 looking at night and not seeing these different 2 things." So it has been drastically cut back. 3 238 So I certainly, on a personal note 4 and on behalf of Crime Stoppers, would like to see more 5 content from our community. Windsor is the number one 6 city. I know it is the number one city in Ontario, but 7 probably in all of Canada as well, having been to many 8 places. So I was hoping that it might be able to be 9 enhanced. 10 239 I have seen some crews come from 11 Toronto and a lot of money being spent on roving 12 projects that are put on on a national basis. I'm 13 saying: My God, with all this money being spent for 14 these roving projects, could they not pump some of this 15 money into our local area? It really seems that 16 sometimes it may offend people that are sending them 17 down here, but it really seems like it is squandered on 18 some of these national issues. 19 240 So I thank you very much for your 20 time. 21 241 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 22 much, gentlemen, both of you, for being here this 23 afternoon. 24 242 I think we may have another member of 25 our first group. StenoTran 49 1 243 Are you Mr. Easton? 2 244 MR. EASTON: Yes. I apologize. I 3 was told I was number 22, so I didn't rush over. 4 245 THE CHAIRPERSON: Number 22. Well, 5 we pulled a fast one on you. We split the group. So 6 you are actually number 4. 7 246 MR. EASTON: Oh. Okay. 8 247 THE CHAIRPERSON: And that would 9 complete our first group. So if you would like to 10 proceed with your remarks. 11 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 12 248 MR. EASTON: Well, thank you for 13 having me here today. 14 249 I'm here in a number of different 15 capacities I guess. I'm a long-time resident in the 16 City of Windsor. I practice law here in Windsor. I 17 have been involved politically with the Progressive 18 Conservative Party of Canada and indeed I am a 19 candidate in the bi-election that is going on right now 20 in Windsor, St. Clair. 21 250 I was very involved with the Save Our 22 Station effort back in 1991 after the headquarters 23 closed our station, I guess in that sense the politics 24 is important because I think the connections were 25 helpful in what I could bring to the table in that. StenoTran 50 1 251 Additionally, I have sat on 2 Percy Hatfield's panel for many years as a political 3 commentator, so I think I'm reasonably well known in 4 the city. 5 252 Certainly, my views on the CBC are 6 that it's essential for our city. It has always been 7 the only TV station here that reflects our community to 8 Windsor. 9 253 You are certainly familiar that you 10 are in the most challenging television and radio market 11 probably in North America, and our location is such 12 that we have not had -- for a variety of broadcasting 13 regulation reasons we have not had different Canadian 14 broadcasters wanting to take on Windsor on a full-time 15 basis. We have lately had the CHWI show up, but even 16 at this point their commitment is certainly not 17 complete. The CBC local station has been a flagship in 18 television particularly but also in radio for 19 reflecting Canadian views and Windsor views to 20 Windsorites. 21 254 So I can't emphasis the importance 22 enough of that. You are in Canada's largest 23 metropolitan region. Unfortunately, about 90 per cent 24 of the people within that metropolitan region are 25 Americans and live on the other side of the river and StenoTran 51 1 they have a very powerful influence on us in this city. 2 A great many of our people listen to and watch American 3 TV. 4 255 Windsor is a very interesting place 5 because of our location next to this huge metropolitan 6 area. We are Canadians by choice. We all have or many 7 of us have ties on the other side of the river and we 8 have chosen to be on this side of the river. But those 9 ties need strengthening and it is very important that 10 Windsor is: one, able to speak to itself; and, two, is 11 able to hear from the rest of the country. 12 256 I was away for about 10 or 12 years 13 for my schooling in Toronto and Ottawa and I guess when 14 I came back home to Windsor and of course found we were 15 about the only city in the country that didn't have 16 cable at that time -- so the access to Canadian TV, 17 whether it was CTV or Global or even TV Ontario was 18 very tough to get with the UHF, there was very little 19 Canadian TV. I just can't emphasize the importance of 20 CBC, which was always reflected on our local Channel 9, 21 even when it was an independent affiliate that was 22 merely carrying the CBC, and that certainly has been 23 strengthened. 24 257 It is interesting Windsor's position. 25 My wife is from northern Ontario and she likes to think StenoTran 52 1 that Windsor is very much like northern Ontario in its 2 sense of isolation from the rest of the province. 3 Maybe that's what -- W.O. Mitchell was our 4 writer-in-residence at the University of Windsor a few 5 years back and he made the comment that Windsor was 6 very much a western city. I think that, in a sense, 7 reflects that feeling of distance from the core, 8 Toronto and -- many of us are Red Wing fans here, 9 you'll know -- 10 258 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Not all of us. 11 --- Laughter / Rires 12 259 MR. EASTON: Not all of us. Not all 13 of us. But many of us are. 14 260 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Most of us. 15 261 MR. EASTON: We look north to the 16 best hockey team we can see right across the river. 17 262 So that isolation is a factor that 18 has to be remembered, and it's very important to have 19 the CBC here to help to bind us to the rest of the 20 country. 21 263 But it works two ways. I mean, I 22 think also having a local CBC affiliate here, I know 23 that on a number of occasions I see Windsor news 24 reflected nationally, and that's because we have a 25 station here in Windsor and reporters here in Windsor. StenoTran 53 1 That's very important as well because that isolation 2 works both ways. 3 264 We have a feeling that we are 4 disconnected from the rest of the country to some 5 degree and the rest of the country is disconnected from 6 us and doesn't understand us. So it is very helpful to 7 see some of our local reporters putting Windsor 8 problems on the national stage. 9 265 Certainly, we think as Windsor grows, 10 and it is certainly one of Canada's most important 11 manufacturing centres, and it is certainly a gateway to 12 the United States, we think that its importance needs 13 to be reflected on the national stage. We note that 14 cities such as London, which no longer have an 15 affiliate, are not in that same position and so their 16 news is not -- their reality is not broadcast to the 17 rest of the country. So on both sides of that 18 equation, we think the CBC TV station is important. 19 266 This area is very interesting, too, 20 because it is the site of what I think is the CRTC's -- 21 probably its greatest achievement, if maybe I can be so 22 bold as to say, is that the 30 per cent content rule 23 that was imposed on the radio stations back in the 24 sixties was really successful in my mind because of 25 CKLW radio, AM 800, which at the time, in the StenoTran 54 1 mid-sixties, AM radio was supreme. It was the number 2 one radio station in Detroit, it was number one in 3 Cleveland, it was number one in Toledo, it was number 4 two in Cincinnati and number two in Chicago. When they 5 said Gordon Lightfoot was the number one hit song or 6 Joannie Mitchell was the number one hit song, it got 7 played in all of those places because of it. 8 267 I think that's very important because 9 one of the things we -- this is a two-way road in our 10 sense of being a frontier town or at the border is that 11 it also offers us an ability to project into the United 12 States. You know, I think if there is one failing I 13 would mark against the local CBC stations, TV and 14 radio, is that they do not take, I don't even believe 15 they measure, the viewership they have in the United 16 States or the listenership or however you term that in 17 radio, and I think it is a very important point. 18 268 To those of us who have contacts on 19 the other side of the river, we know the Americans 20 listen to our news. They often like to listen to CBC 21 news and feel like they are getting an independent 22 voice, one that is uncoloured by their own political 23 biases. They follow Canadian -- when our olympic 24 coverage, for instance, I mean, they just -- they knew 25 our olympic coverage was far superior to their olympic StenoTran 55 1 coverage. It wasn't tainted with all the patriotism of 2 blatant -- more jingoism that they were displaying on 3 their coverage. 4 269 In my mind, we have a superior 5 product that we should be sending into the United 6 States and we can see what has happened with the 7 success of our radio content law. I mean, it's not for 8 nothing that a girl from Windsor who grew up in Timmins 9 is now the number one country star, and a girl from 10 Quebec has one all the Grammy's for number one album. 11 270 We have an opportunity here, I think, 12 to do some cultural imperialism. I don't know why we 13 don't carry it a little further. We have Canadians all 14 across the United States. 15 271 Why we are not selling our CBC news 16 to cable stations in New York, New York City and Los 17 Angeles, I'm not sure, but I certainly think it's 18 something -- we have an excellent product and we bring 19 a unique prospective to the world, certainly I have 20 seen it here in Windsor, and I think it is one we 21 should be taking into the United States and that would 22 be well received. 23 272 I guess, lastly, I would just, in the 24 main, commend what I see done locally. We don't have 25 enough local time on TV, but what we do have is done StenoTran 56 1 well, very well. I would urge this Commission to 2 contemplate how we might have greater local time. But, 3 that being said, I would compliment both the local 4 programming and, in the main, the national programming 5 which in my mind does a great service in bringing 6 Canada to Canadians from sea to sea to sea and to the 7 Great Lakes. 8 273 Thank you. 9 274 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 10 much, Mr. Easton. 11 275 I don't think we have had our other 12 speaker in from this first group. That would conclude 13 our first group. 14 276 Unfortunately, I think I will have to 15 keep to the timing. Ms Dudley was asking for a further 16 comment, but at the end of the day, if you are able to 17 stay with us, if we complete our full roster, by all 18 means -- 19 277 MS DUDLEY: Mr. Easton said a few 20 points that I wanted to. 21 278 THE CHAIRPERSON: So I think it would 22 be fairer if we heard our next full group and, then, at 23 the end of the day, if you wanted to add some comments, 24 that would be great. 25 279 I would like to propose a break. It StenoTran 57 1 is now 2:20. I would like to reconvene at 2:30 with 2 the next group of 10: Mr. Horne, Ms Whissell, 3 Ms Villamizar, Ms Malicki, Mr. Crowell, 4 Ms Mina Grossman-Iani, Ms Susan Haig, Mr. David Palmer 5 and Mr. Liam McCarthy, in 10 minutes. 6 --- Recess at 1420 / Suspension à 1420 7 --- Upon resuming at 1430 / Reprise à 1430 8 280 MR. RHÉAUME: Mr. Bob Horne -- I'm 9 sorry, Bill Horne. 10 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 11 281 MR. HORNE: Thank you very much. I 12 appreciate the opportunity to make these comments about 13 the CBC. 14 282 I am mostly presenting my own 15 personal views, although at some identified points I am 16 speaking as the Regional Director of the Canadian 17 Hearing Society. 18 283 I believe the CBC should attempt to 19 present whatever it is that distinguishes us from 20 Americans or any other nation. Admittedly, this is 21 highly subjective, and likely subject to the CBC's 22 interpretation. But this is not a fault, for the CBC 23 is a Canadian institution and does, in fact, by its 24 very existence, help shape us as Canadians. 25 284 People in other countries who are StenoTran 58 1 familiar with the CBC praise it for its unique role and 2 have expressed opinions to me that they wish their 3 countries had a similar public broadcaster. One has 4 only to listen to the countless jokes about the CBC to 5 realize in fact just how much it is admired by many of 6 our citizens. 7 285 I think the CBC fulfils its role as a 8 national broadcaster extremely well in radio. Programs 9 such as As It Happens and Madly Off In All Directions, 10 these are national treasures and must be protected. 11 They make us cherish the moments we can spend listening 12 to them and become irritable if we are not able to hear 13 them. They help us define what Canadian is. 14 286 In television, it is my opinion that 15 it is harder to be categorically supportive. This is 16 probably because it is such a different medium. Radio 17 involves us and does not let us go. Television watches 18 over us and we tend to tune out a lot of it and channel 19 hop with wild abandon. How many times have we all said 20 when confronted with a couple of zillion channels on 21 television "There is really nothing on right now"? 22 287 And with advertising on the CBC, it 23 does tend to look something like its competitors. CBC 24 radio, however, stands very distinct from its 25 competition. StenoTran 59 1 288 In my opinion, some of the CBC 2 television comedy productions miss the mark with the 3 absolute exception of Royal Canadian Air Farce, truly a 4 Canadian jewel, a defining moment, and its public 5 affairs and news shows are first rate. 6 289 In the next millennium, CBC radio 7 should stay the course and keep doing what it does so 8 well. 9 290 In addition, I think there is a 10 wonderful opportunity to do much more to encourage the 11 development of talent by sponsoring many more creative 12 competitions, whether it be short stories, poetry, play 13 writing, whatever. New talent needs an outlet and CBC 14 radio can do this extremely well. Insist that the 15 works contribute to the further definition of the 16 nature of being Canadian, offer modest prizes chiefly 17 composed of recognition and the talent will come. 18 291 As for television, CBC should carry 19 only Canadian productions and drama, comedy, sports and 20 public affairs, with the exception of foreign 21 contributions such as the BBC World News. 22 292 While I deplore the current strike 23 and the effects it is having on employees and 24 audiences, I have come to appreciate the BBC news on 25 the morning time slot and, as a current affairs junkie, StenoTran 60 1 would love to see this type of programming more 2 regularly. Maybe this would be a way to offset the 3 loss of foreign bureaus by having reputable public 4 broadcasters elsewhere fill the gap. 5 293 The CBC should place great emphasis 6 on staying in touch with its audiences and constantly 7 seek their feedback on new programming and the 8 development of same. It could consider the creation of 9 a consumer advisory panel which would meet at regular 10 intervals to hear presentations from CBC staff and have 11 the power to offer suggestions that will be acted on. 12 I base these comments on personal experience in a 13 former life with Bell Canada's Consumer Advisory Panel. 14 294 Speaking as a representative of the 15 Canadian Hearing Society now I am naturally concerned 16 with accessibility issues for deaf and hard of hearing 17 people and encourage the CBC to move aggressively to 18 full captioning on all of its programming. Recognizing 19 the cost of this, I have no problem with soliciting 20 sponsorships for this venture. 21 295 I also understand that there have 22 been broadcasts of real time radio in the USA via the 23 Web, using voice-to-text captioning for the first time 24 allowing these consumers access to radio. The CBC 25 should be implementing this technology for its prime StenoTran 61 1 shows as a start, and move completely to this medium 2 over the longer term. 3 296 I would also strongly encourage the 4 CBC, both radio and TV, to become more involved with 5 coverage of events for people with disabilities, such 6 as the recent Deaf World Winter Games held in Europe in 7 which Canada won gold in hockey, for example. 8 297 Seventeen per cent of the Ontario 9 population has a recognized disability, the number 10 expected to rise to 25 per cent in just 18 years. CBC 11 can make a major contribution to reducing and 12 eventually eliminating the discrimination and barriers 13 faced by this substantial part of our population. A 14 good example of the start of this recognition was the 15 recent public forum on disabilities hosted here in 16 Windsor by CBC Radio One. 17 298 As to regional productions, there is 18 definitely a role for regional productions, both radio 19 and television. I would like to see the reverse of the 20 trend of less local productions and more national and 21 turn that around. 22 299 I do feel obliged to present a pet 23 peeve here regarding the national and, hence, the local 24 evening news. I simply do not understand why CBC 25 carries national news at 10:00 p.m. and again repeats StenoTran 62 1 it at 11:00, thereby forcing the local regional news to 2 11:30. This is simply too late for many of us who 3 arise early. I would enjoy the local news, but I'm 4 never home from work in time to see it and staying up 5 until 11:30 or later is just too late. I assume 6 somebody watches those news programs, but I never can. 7 300 It seems to me that radio has more 8 flexibility for regional programming, and I applaud the 9 Morning Watch show produced here for its blend of local 10 and regional coverage. Maybe there is an opportunity 11 for some regional public affairs programming at other 12 time slots as well. 13 301 Now, again, speaking as a 14 representative of a non-profit organization, I commend 15 the CBC for its policy of assisting these groups in 16 promotion of their events by providing a level of 17 exposure we could never ever afford at regular 18 commercial rates. 19 302 Programming on CBC generally should 20 be different from other broadcasters because it is not 21 completely advertising driven. Just this morning, with 22 no CBC morning TV program, I was forced, much against 23 my will, to watch Good Morning America. That was about 24 20 minutes as long as I could stand of the worst of the 25 commercials. You know: the movie, the world's best StenoTran 63 1 commercials. This was something like: the movie, the 2 world's worst commercials. I think in the entire 3 20 minutes I didn't learn anything about what was 4 happening in the world, just commercials. 5 303 Information is what will drive the 6 next millennium and the CBC should aggressively work to 7 be the information provider of choice to all Canadians. 8 If I had to choose personally between information and, 9 for example, the Red Green show, it is pretty clear to 10 me which way I would go. It can do this via regular 11 programming and a robust Web presence. Web presence 12 will soon be as common as any other medium, and the CBC 13 must be at the forefront of this technology. 14 304 We need the CBC as much now as any 15 time in our past. We need choices. 16 305 Thank you very much. 17 306 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 18 much, Mr. Horne. 19 307 Our next participant. 20 308 M. RHÉAUME: La prochaine 21 présentation, Mme Mireille Whissell. 22 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 23 309 Mme WHISSELL: Chers représentants du 24 CRTC, je tiens d'abord à vous remercier d'avoir bien 25 voulu vous déplacer pour vous rendre à Windsor pour la StenoTran 64 1 tenue des consultations publiques se rapportant à la 2 radiodiffusion de la Société Radio-Canada à Windsor, 3 Essex et Kent. 4 310 La région de Windsor/Essex/Kent en 5 est une qui regroupe diverses disciplines, dont 6 l'agriculture sur tous ses paliers, renommée pour la 7 représentation de son industrie automobile, ce qui 8 porte plusieurs à penser qu'il s'agit d'une région qui 9 ne compte que des collets bleus. Grave erreur! 10 311 Nous comptons aussi des 11 professionnels qui oeuvrent dans plusieurs domaines 12 tels que le secteur de l'éducation, la culture 13 francophone qui bat son plein par des francophones et 14 pour des francophones, les arts visuels et les 15 personnes d'âge d'or. 16 312 Nous sommes tous actuellement à 17 visionner le millénaire qui franchira bientôt notre 18 seuil et nous nous demandons tous, sans exception, où 19 et comment allons-nous aboutir avec la survie de notre 20 langue maternelle qui est le français sans l'appui 21 médiatique. 22 313 Certains journalistes anglophones se 23 sont permis de publier un article dans notre journal, 24 le "Windsor Star", à l'effet que la radio et la télé 25 française n'étaient plus nécessaires dans cette ville StenoTran 65 1 dont la population anglaise prime et dont la population 2 francophone se voit assimiler. Quelle erreur! 3 314 Nous jouissons d'une merveilleuse 4 équipe d'animateurs et d'animatrices qui oeuvrent au 5 sein d'un poste radiophonique reconnu comme étant le 6 champ de formation pour journalistes. Les plus doués 7 et acharnés se voient muter ailleurs au cours d'une 8 année seulement de formation. Certains ont opté de 9 terminer leur mandat à Windsor et d'autres n'ont pas le 10 choix. 11 315 Nous avons un cablôdistributeur qui 12 porte le nom de Cogeco et qui se refuse de nous offrir 13 le poste RDI de Radio-Canada et les ondes des postes de 14 la Société Radio-Canada télédiffusés en français ne 15 peuvent être captées pour les gens de Belle-Rivière ou 16 Pointe-aux-Roches afin qu'ils puissent en bénéficier. 17 316 Nous avons de belles émissions 18 radiodiffusées localement telles que l'émission de cinq 19 minutes sur la politique étrangère, qui est enviable 20 pour les nouveaux Canadiens francophones dans notre 21 région, offerte par des immigrants francophones aux 22 coûts de la Société. Une tentative de ligne ouverte 23 pour cette émission serait grandement appréciée où l'on 24 pourrait offrir des livres en provenance de maisons 25 d'édition franco-ontariennes aux participants, donc, StenoTran 66 1 d'une pierre, deux coups. Mais on se voit refuser 2 catégoriquement. 3 317 En ce qui a trait à la culture, CBEF 4 Windsor nous fait entendre ses initiatives locales le 5 matin très tôt pour ceux et celles qui se rendent au 6 travail, le midi avec des entrevues diverses pour une 7 période d'une heure et demie, et de 15 h 30 à 17 h 30 8 pour les ados avec entrevue, des activités anticipées 9 aussi dans les institutions scolaires. Le samedi 10 matin, nous jouissons de notre propre Jacques 11 Languirand(ph) à nous, Pierre Côté. 12 318 Entre-temps, on se fait nourrir de la 13 programmation venant de Montréal, nous faisant entendre 14 des entrevues avec des Québécois et pour les Québécois. 15 Même suite à l'envoi d'une liste d'artistes 16 francophones du sud-ouest à Montréal et de leurs 17 accomplissements dans diverses disciplines culturelles, 18 on nous a complètement ignoré sans même un accusé de 19 réception et encore moins une suite. 20 319 Le Centre culturel Tournesol 21 Windsor/Essex/Kent oeuvre depuis 25 ans auprès de la 22 population francophone du sud-ouest et s'est vu 23 reconnaître les siens par son temple de la renommée 24 francophone du sud-ouest auprès duquel nous comptons 46 25 personnalités reconnues comme étant les chefs de fil de StenoTran 67 1 la francophonie du sud-ouest. 2 320 De plus, un cercle littéraire franco 3 du sud-ouest fut initié et se porte très bien, merci. 4 Chaque année depuis quatre ans, au-delà de 350 poèmes 5 sont soumis dans le cadre du concours annuel de poésie, 6 dont les jeunes de cinq ans allant jusqu'aux personnes 7 de 50 ans et plus participent. Pourquoi ne pas passer 8 en entrevue une émission du profil de toutes ces bonnes 9 gens qui ont accompli tellement pour la survie de la 10 francophonie dans le sud-ouest et j'y inclus nos poètes 11 en herbe de tout âge. 12 321 En 1998, le Centre culturel Tournesol 13 Windsor/Essex/Kent montait son site Web sur l'Internet 14 et des communiqués furent envoyés à CBEF Windsor pour 15 en informer la population francophone et les 16 francophones venant à Windsor. On a choisi de ne pas 17 imprimer cette initiative ou même de passer une 18 entrevue pour décrire et faire connaître cette 19 initiative du Centre culturel Tournesol. 20 322 Est-ce que CBEF Windsor ne doit pas 21 reconnaître de telles initiatives, surtout lorsqu'il 22 s'agit d'une première francophone dans la région du 23 sud-ouest? Il me semble clair que cela ne sera 24 possible sans une formation aux réalités et aux 25 exigences du monde moderne. StenoTran 68 1 323 De 1975 à 1993, le Centre culturel 2 Tournesol a présenté des spectacles mettant en vedette 3 toute une panoplie d'artistes choisis de contacts 4 ontariens et dont la plupart venait du Québec. Depuis 5 1994, nous nous limitons à faire valoir nos artistes 6 francophones du sud-ouest et toujours sans la 7 participation active d'une entrevue de CBEF Windsor. 8 324 L'initiative "Ontario Pop" bat son 9 plein, mais où vont nos artistes francophones suite à 10 cet événement? Que deviennent-ils sinon inconnus de 11 tous et de partout? Je me dois de louanger l'intérêt 12 de CBEF Windsor à ce sujet pour quelques-uns de nos 13 artistes, mais que sont-ils devenus? 14 325 Une programmation sur le profil de 15 nos artistes francophones du sud-ouest devrait faire 16 partie des émissions radiodiffusées et télédiffusées. 17 Le refus de nous reconnaître ne fait qu'accentuer notre 18 amertume vis-à-vis de notre soi-disante Société Radio- 19 Canada qui, en passant, existe grâce à nos argents. 20 326 Sur la toile nationale, nous 21 reconnaissons que chaque région a ses besoins 22 particuliers et la SRC surpasse les normes et les cotes 23 d'écoute au sein des régions francophones. 24 327 Sur la toile régionale, toujours 25 selon les restrictions budgétaires, la SRC se voit StenoTran 69 1 prise dans l'engrenage politique, ayant à s'assouplir 2 aux exigences imposées par les gouvernements, et ce, au 3 détriment des demandes soumises par les auditeurs des 4 diverses régions. Chaque région a ses besoins, mais 5 quoiqu'il en soit, les auditeurs et auditrices se 6 voient privés de leurs droits, qu'ils soient exprimés 7 ou non. 8 328 Portant deux chapeaux pour cette 9 représentation, je souligne la participation de notre 10 Club Richelieu International de Windsor. Assurez-vous 11 que je n'y fais pas erreur et je cite bel et bien le 12 Club Richelieu International de Windsor. 13 329 Nous sommes le seul Club Richelieu à 14 détenir un tel titre parmi les quelques 470 Club 15 Richelieu qui font partie du Richelieu International. 16 Nous avons émis des communiqués à la SRC, CBEF Windsor, 17 listant les activités de notre Club Richelieu et nous 18 avons même eu la veine de recruter le Directeur de CBEF 19 Windsor, mais nos renseignements soumis se voient 20 perdus ou remplacés par d'autres activités. On nous a 21 même informé que l'on ne pouvait recruter d'autres 22 membres de CBEF Windsor pour en faire partie, étant 23 donné les lois des ressources humaines en vigueur à la 24 SRC. 25 330 On en est toujours à se demander StenoTran 70 1 pourquoi. Où en est la logique d'une telle loi? 2 Serait-ce que les employés de la SRC doivent connaître 3 un statut social qui leur est particulier et qu'ils se 4 verraient diminués pour autant en faisant partie 5 d'organismes francophones dans la région? 6 318 La SRC n'est-elle pas une média pour 7 la population francophone et par la population 8 francophone ou encore serait-elle victime de 9 l'engrenage politique dans lequel elle trempe toujours? 10 332 Que la SRC se décentralise 11 complètement des griffes politiques qui la retiennent 12 et qu'elle entreprenne des initiatives innovatrices 13 régionales et locales qu'elle dessert. La population 14 francophone du sud-ouest est reconnue pour avoir le 15 plus grand nombre de bénévoles francophones au sein de 16 sa communauté et je puis vous assurer que ces bénévoles 17 répondront généreusement à l'appel de la SRC si telle 18 demande était formulée. 19 333 Je termine en vous remerciant d'avoir 20 bien voulu écouter ces revendications qui reflètent 21 l'opinion des membres du Centre culturel Tournesol 22 Windsor/Essex/Kent et du Club Richelieu International 23 du Windsor qui compte au-delà de 200 membres actifs 24 francophones qui oeuvrent avec acharnement à la survie 25 de sa culture et de sa langue française. StenoTran 71 1 334 Merci. 2 335 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Merci beaucoup, 3 Madame Whissel. 4 336 MR. RHÉAUME: Our next presenter will 5 be Margaret Villamizar. 6 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 7 337 MS VILLAMIZAR: Good afternoon. 8 338 I'm here also in a capacity as a 9 private citizen, although I'm active in a lot of 10 different facets in the community and have been 11 involved with various organizations which have taken a 12 stand for some time in support of public broadcasting 13 and the continuation and expansion of a public 14 broadcaster here in Canada and locally. 15 339 In my own right, I won't speak out of 16 nostalgia, but just to sort of throw it in, I was 17 raised I guess on Kindergarten Of The Year because they 18 didn't have kindergarten in the town that I grew up in 19 the Ottawa Valley. So I remember listening to that at 20 the age of I guess five, and that was on CBC. Ever 21 since that I can remember kind of significant portions 22 of my growing up and times of the day were marked by 23 the One O'clock Signal, the News at Six, and so on. So 24 I guess I'm qualified as being a lifelong listener and 25 viewer of CBC television as well. StenoTran 72 1 340 One of the things that sparked me to 2 put my name forward was having read the local newspaper 3 which is owned by the Southam chain locally here. Over 4 the last year at least three times I have read very 5 aggressive anti-public broadcasting editorials coming 6 from that newspaper and it made me very angry to see 7 that someone was presuming to speak for Windsor, not 8 only once, but repeatedly so, and the last effort that 9 was put forward actually came today directed to this 10 Commission. 11 341 The Windsor Star's editors seem to 12 believe that CBC should simply be sold off to the 13 highest bidder, and they make assertions to back that 14 up such that people aren't watching, people aren't 15 listening. Today's assertions had to do with the fact 16 that we are surrounded by choices, U.S. media like no 17 other audience, but yet we still are very confident 18 about our identity and we don't need the CBC, thanks 19 very much. I can't imagine that that's based on any 20 kind of investigation. 21 342 I remember when I worked in the 22 school system previously dealing with young children 23 and part of the work I had to do involved asking them 24 questions of a general information nature. It is kind 25 of disappointing to hear kids, young children -- and StenoTran 73 1 then I encounter it also in adults here who really are 2 not that informed about Canadian affairs, but they can 3 tell you all kinds of things about U.S. public figures. 4 It's not particular to Windsor I'm sure, but I think it 5 is much more of an issue here and it's no accident that 6 it's because the U.S. media is ever present and it is 7 bombarding. So I don't know where Windsor Star's 8 editorial is coming from. 9 343 Personally, I would oppose the 10 sell-off or privatization of the CBC, just for the 11 record, and I also oppose a slow death by 1,000 cuts, 12 which I think is a very real threat and in fact is in 13 process at the very moment. 14 344 The current government has been on 15 record as saying it supports CBC, made election 16 promises at that time, but in fact has cut more money 17 than any other previous government, I believe, and is 18 continuing to do so most recently in its money 19 available for productions that are aired on CBC. 20 345 There is a reason I think in a 21 geographically vast country like Canada, with its 22 difference to have an agency like the CBC, to have it 23 flourish and continue so that in fact we can speak to 24 one another, learn about one another, and I think 25 foster national unity in a real way, in a meaningful StenoTran 74 1 way, where people, through dialogue and mutual 2 understanding, become aware of everyone's rights being 3 equal and everyone having the right to determine their 4 own future if they so desire. 5 346 It is much more effective to have a 6 CBC that brings people to one another in that way than 7 to wave a bunch of flags or produce a bunch of trinkets 8 which you distribute and ram down people's throat in 9 the name of unity or worse. 10 347 I think one of the other concerns I 11 have is the marketplace dictating what we hear in the 12 radio and what we see on television is something I 13 can't accept as being a thing that we should be 14 supporting at this time. I think more than ever we are 15 inundated by a market-driven philosophy that says 16 whatever sells is good and if you have the money to 17 market things, you create your market and therefore you 18 can promote all kinds of things in the name of culture. 19 348 I think again here we have a very 20 good example of some really brash, cheap, cynical, 21 loud-mouth talk show hosts dominating the airwaves 22 which really are contributing to the dumbing down of 23 America and the dumbing down of our country, too, if we 24 allow this kind of thing to proliferate in a way that 25 it naturally would if we just allow the market and StenoTran 75 1 those with the money to promote what they want to 2 promote to flourish. 3 349 I think we have to also take a look 4 at the print media if you want to see what happens when 5 you have the privateers having their way and saying 6 that all that we need is to have a private industry and 7 things will be just fine. 8 350 We can look no farther than our own 9 city, Windsor, where we have one newspaper in the 10 Conrad Black owned chain now that has filled its pages 11 with people who are promoted as being experts of one 12 sort or another who, in the most crude and sensational 13 way, now are putting forward views that attack 14 immigrants and refugees, not once, not twice but three 15 times in a period of a couple of months; attack 16 workers; attack teachers; the youth; public 17 broadcasting in a most sensational way; and also carry 18 items that sort of feed into this whole thing of 19 getting tough on crime, getting tough on teen mothers 20 in a way that one would have to say comes straight out 21 of the southern U.S. 22 351 I don't think that is the kind of 23 thing that promotes the unity and cohesiveness of our 24 community. In fact, it promotes the opposite, 25 divisions, and enmities and animosity, and I don't want StenoTran 76 1 that kind of thing to be looked on as a norm, 2 especially when the editors of this particular 3 newspaper are the very ones who are campaigning in a 4 very aggressive way against continued funding for CBC 5 or worse. 6 352 I think it is important that 7 Windsorites who feel strongly that this is not the way 8 to go should come forward and speak. So that's what I 9 wanted to do today. 10 353 One of the other things that is a 11 concern to me also at this time is I think that the 12 public broadcaster, CBC, should be an independent 13 force, as was mentioned by some other people here 14 today. I don't at all agree with the idea that it 15 should be subjected to political control or 16 manipulation, and that goes also for who gets appointed 17 to the CRTC. I don't like the idea that we have 18 political appointments in large number and people of 19 maybe questionable connections who are deciding such an 20 important thing as the national broadcast policy for 21 our country and for our people. 22 354 This is a time when people are 23 demanding much more say in the affairs of the nation 24 and the affairs of their own destiny and we should have 25 a role as citizens in some way selecting who should be StenoTran 77 1 our representatives and making important policy on the 2 question of the public broadcast agency. 3 355 Local coverage is something I would 4 like to just say a word about. 5 356 I think we went through an experience 6 when local coverage was suspended here in Windsor which 7 others have also spoken about where we saw some other 8 private broadcasters come in and fill a vacancy to some 9 extent, but the coverage they gave turned out, after a 10 little while, to be marginal. They were operating out 11 of another office and it wasn't profitable that they 12 report on Windsor or they didn't have people here, or 13 you had to have a news break only at certain times to 14 be covered, and it was not an adequate substitute 15 whatsoever for local CBC programming. 16 357 I'm glad it was reinstated. I think 17 it should be enhanced and I think we should have more 18 coverage. We should give the opportunity to local 19 citizens, young performers, to the youth and others who 20 wish to have a platform from which to speak, to have 21 that expanded, English and French radio. I can 22 appreciate the comments made previously as well. 23 That's something I support. 24 358 Finally, I think one of the fields in 25 which the CBC should consider expanding in a way that StenoTran 78 1 makes sense is even in the schools, in the education 2 system. 3 359 There are incursions being made right 4 now by commercial TV under the guise of putting news in 5 the classroom and, you know, bribery in many ways I 6 think. It is being used to inject I think a rather 7 narrow and biased point of view in the name of news. 8 Possibly, also from what I have read about, some of the 9 new news programs put in, but of course crass 10 commercialism. 11 360 CBC has all kinds of programming that 12 can be valuable and is I'm sure used in schools. I 13 think more can be done to promote that. Teachers could 14 learn a bit, too, from what I have seen about valuable 15 content. 16 361 A question that wasn't asked but 17 maybe I will just throw in: Where does the money come 18 from if I'm calling for an expansion not a contraction 19 of programming and reinstatement of funding and, if 20 necessary, more funding? I think the whole question of 21 priorities and the use of public dollars has to be 22 addressed at this time. 23 362 I'm not a believer that the 24 trickle-down theory is going to work, that the more 25 money you pump into the pockets of the rich and the StenoTran 79 1 people who are already in a powerful position the 2 benefits will gradually follow to the rest of that. I 3 don't believe it works now, it has never worked. 4 363 I think that we should not be 5 focusing on putting all the resources of the nation in 6 the hands of the rich in one way or another, through 7 subsidies, through grants, through tax breaks, you name 8 it. We should be investing in people and in services 9 that actually help build our nation, not tear it apart. 10 That includes of course health and education, but I 11 include in that a valuable public independent 12 broadcaster which should be properly funded. I don't 13 think that's the trend right now and I think it's 14 important that we look at these priorities in this 15 light. 16 364 Things that I have heard advocated 17 and what I agree with include even a moratorium on 18 interest payments on the debt for those who have, in 19 many cases, collected the value of the debt many times 20 over in interest payments. Why don't they get put that 21 on hold for a time and we can invest in the kinds of 22 programs and services that Canadians need to produced 23 an enlightened, cultured citizenry. 24 365 So that is I guess what I wanted to 25 say for today. StenoTran 80 1 366 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 2 much. 3 367 Our next speaker. 4 368 MR. RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is 5 Pat Malicki. 6 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 7 369 MS MALICKI: Very good. You got it 8 right. 9 370 First of all, I would like to say I'm 10 also here as an independent citizen. 11 371 I was born in Kirkland Lake, Ontario 12 moved to Winnipeg, then to Toronto, then to 13 St. Catharines, then back to Toronto and eventually 14 here 25 years ago and CBC has been a constant all 15 through my life. 16 372 Because of all the moves, my 17 family -- my parents, when they were growing up, moved 18 around a lot, so we have family and friends from coast 19 to coast. The CBC enables us to know what is going on 20 in the rest of the country so we know what is affecting 21 them, not just what is affecting us in our own local 22 area. 23 373 As has been mentioned several times 24 this afternoon, Windsor is just a step away from one of 25 the largest media markets in North America. In Windsor StenoTran 81 1 we are proudly Canadian but we are constantly bombarded 2 with American programming. None of the cities that I 3 have lived in has been subjected to U.S. broadcasting 4 as much as we are here in Windsor. We need the CBC, 5 not only the national programming but also the regional 6 programming. 7 374 I remember several years ago when our 8 regional newscasts were coming from Toronto. It was at 9 that time that I had to turn to other stations to 10 receive a little more local news than what we were 11 getting out of the Toronto regional broadcast. While 12 the information was being fed to Toronto, only a 13 certain amount of time was allotted to each area, 14 usually only one Windsor area item was included in 15 these broadcasts. These decisions were being made by 16 people who knew nothing at all about this area. Those 17 newscasts lacked relevance to us. Needless to say, we 18 were all delighted when the regional programming was 19 returned to the Windsor station. 20 375 I listen to CBC to find out what is 21 happening in my city, the county, the province and the 22 country and also the world around us. In our family, 23 we look to CBC for its excellent current affairs and 24 news programming. We are not fans of tabloid 25 journalism. StenoTran 82 1 376 Let me take you through a typical day 2 in the Malicki household. 3 377 We start the morning with Morning 4 Watch, which brings us up to date on what is happening 5 in this area. 6 378 As I go about my day, I continue with 7 This Morning and Ontario Today. These programs help me 8 to feel connected with my country and my province. I 9 enjoy the interviews and the conversations. I learn 10 about others in this vast country of ours, their 11 successes, their problems, their feelings, their 12 dreams. 13 379 Every night, until recently, which I 14 presume is because of the strike, my husband watches 15 the Business News on Newsworld at 6:30 p.m. It is the 16 only purely Canadian business report available to him 17 and it is absolutely essential for him in his job as a 18 stockbroker to have that information. 19 380 Later in the evening we often watch 20 The Journal and almost always watch The National to be 21 brought up to date on what is happening in Canada and 22 the rest of the world. I happen to be nighthawk, so I 23 stay up for the local news because I can't watch it at 24 5:30 and 6:00 because that's when we are having supper. 25 381 Lest you think that we are news StenoTran 83 1 junkies or have nothing else to do during the day, that 2 is far from the truth. We are busy people involved in 3 our community. The programs we listen to either at 4 home or in the car help us to feel connected. We learn 5 from them. They help us to feel less insular in our 6 thinking, help us to find out if there is a better way 7 of doing things: Has some other area experienced the 8 same problems or decisions that face us? 9 382 I must mention on the weekend 10 Arthur Black, Definitely Not the Opera, Fresh Air are 11 constants in our lives. What we really miss is 12 Double Exposure. It did not translate well to TV. I 13 can remember many times driving down the street and I'm 14 sure people in the cars next to me must have thought I 15 was a little bit crazy because I was laughing. 16 383 Let me give you a couple of examples 17 of the importance of CBC reporting and programming. 18 384 Last fall we were visiting friends 19 who moved to Australia about 10 years ago. They live 20 in the Brisbane area. Every morning at 8:00 a.m. they 21 set up their shortwave radio to pick up the CBC. I 22 believe with the time difference it was The World At 23 Six. They want to keep in touch with their native 24 country and hear international news from a Canadian 25 viewpoint. It was wonderful for us, having been away StenoTran 84 1 for a few weeks, to be able to find out what was going 2 on at home. 3 385 In this area, when the olympics are 4 on, we have a choice of watching either the Canadian or 5 American coverage with or without cable. Which do we 6 want? The Canadian coverage provided by CBC. Why? 7 Because it is comprehensive, relevant and balanced. 8 While it naturally focuses on the Canadian 9 participants, it also endeavours to educate us about 10 participants from other countries. 11 386 An interesting fact probably unknown 12 to many outside this area is that many Americans choose 13 to watch the CBC olympic coverage for just these 14 reasons. The American coverage is just too biased. At 15 times it can be nauseating. I don't think the quality 16 of the CBC news and current affairs programming can be 17 matched by anyone else. We just need more of it. 18 387 I read recently that it costs each 19 Canadian $30 a year to subsidize the CBC. While I 20 would prefer to use the word "support" rather than 21 "subsidize", I think it is money well spent. In fact, 22 as a taxpayer, I would be willing to increase that 23 support. I would far rather see us invest in the 24 future of the CBC than give a $98,000 grant to a 25 Montreal publisher for a book on dumb blonde jokes. StenoTran 85 1 388 The CBC cannot be all things to all 2 people, but it can speak to all Canadians. It is the 3 only network that tries to do so. I want to hear the 4 international news from a Canadian perspective, not an 5 American perspective. We need to keep our foreign 6 bureaus and not buy coverage from foreign networks. I 7 want to get my news from a broadcaster that is not 8 solely concerned with the bottom line. 9 389 We all have to be financially 10 accountable and the CBC has been doing an excellent job 11 over the past several years of tightening its belt. 12 However, at some point the belt tightening will cut off 13 the flow of blood and that will be the end of the CBC 14 as a national public broadcaster. 15 390 Also, at this point, I would like to 16 address some notes that I had made this afternoon. 17 391 Getting the younger audience has been 18 mentioned. To me that is not a major problem. I know 19 myself when I was a teenager, I wouldn't have been 20 caught dead listening to the CBC. But as a young 21 mother I can remember early on listening to the hockey 22 sweater being read on Morningside. I have never 23 forgotten that and that was 24 or 25 years ago. 24 392 Locally, we love to hear Bob Monks or 25 see Bob Monks on TV. My husband feels Percy's Panel is StenoTran 86 1 much too short; he just gets into it and then they are 2 off. My feeling, too, is spend less on bricks and 3 mortar, as has been done with the big CBC centres in 4 Toronto and Ottawa, and more on the programming. 5 393 In closing, some of the questions 6 posed in the December news release: 7 "How well does the CBC fulfil 8 its role as the national public 9 broadcasters?" (As read) 10 394 I think it is doing very well but it 11 could do a lot better. 12 "How well does the CBC serve the 13 public on a regional as well as 14 a national level?" (As read) 15 395 It definitely needs improvement 16 regionally. We need more local TV coverage, and it 17 seems that Windsor ceases to exist on Saturday and 18 Sunday. 19 "Should the programming provided 20 by the CBC radio and television 21 be different from that provided 22 by other broadcasters?" 23 (As read) 24 396 Yes. It should serve to inform us 25 about our country and its role on the global stage. It StenoTran 87 1 should help us to learn that we do have differences in 2 our nation, but we also have a lot of similarities. 3 "Is there a special role that 4 the CBC should play in the 5 presentation of Canadian 6 programming?" (As read) 7 397 Yes, and it should improve on what it 8 is doing now. 9 398 Thank you for hearing my comments 10 today. I hope that your visit to Windsor has been 11 enlightening. 12 399 THE CHAIRPERSON: It has indeed. 13 --- Off microphone / Sans microphone 14 400 THE CHAIRPERSON: Certainly, Madam, 15 and it will continue to be so I'm sure. 16 401 We will turn the microphone over to 17 our next speaker. 18 402 MR. RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is 19 Mr. George Crowell. 20 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 21 403 MR. CROWELL: Thank you. 22 404 I came to Windsor from the United 23 States back in 1968 in order to teach in the Department 24 of Religious Studies at the university here. My field 25 is social ethics. I have been very grateful for the StenoTran 88 1 coverage of public affairs that has been provided by 2 the CBC. It is far richer than was available in the 3 United States. 4 405 I remember especially during the 5 1980s the way in which the CBC provided information 6 about the United States' interventions in Central 7 American when there was massive denial of what was 8 occurring by the U.S. administration and support of 9 that view almost completely uncritically in a mainline 10 media in the United States. The CBC position made it 11 clear to us here that we need an independent foreign 12 policy. I'm very grateful for that kind of 13 contribution. 14 406 I think especially today it's evident 15 that the CBC's contribution is even more needed because 16 there has been an enormous decline in coverage in the 17 U.S. media of public affairs as they have turned more 18 and more to spending time with entertainers and 19 devoting programs to deal with the private immoralities 20 of all kinds of people. If anything, we need more 21 coverage of public affairs. 22 407 I strongly oppose any move toward 23 privatization. I would like to make the point that if 24 privatization should occur, it would be very difficult 25 for us to go back and to recreate an effective public StenoTran 89 1 broadcasting network. The NAFTA, the North American 2 Free Trade Agreement, provides that any private 3 enterprise which is deprived by the public sector of 4 opportunities to profit that it has enjoyed in the past 5 can sue for compensation. So it would be virtually 6 impossible under the NAFTA for us to republicize 7 anything that had been privatized, and that would 8 include public broadcasting. 9 408 My initial understanding of what this 10 hearing was about was to offer us an opportunity to 11 defend the CBC from being dismantled, but I see that 12 among the questions that is asked is: 13 "In the new millennium, should 14 the CBC fulfil its role in a 15 different manner than it has in 16 the past?" (As read) 17 409 I would like to make a suggestion for 18 a creative initiative that might be taken to strengthen 19 broadcasting dealing with public policy. I suggest 20 that there be a conscious, explicit focus on the issue 21 of global survival. 22 410 We should all be aware, and the CBC 23 has helped inform us about this, that the human 24 community is under threat from a number of different 25 directions. We have an exploding population. Our StenoTran 90 1 resource base is being undermined. We are distributing 2 toxic substances into our environment. The conflicts 3 that occur can be exacerbated by weapons of mass 4 destruction. The human enterprise is in severe danger. 5 It seems to me that the CBC could do an enormously 6 creative service to all of us if it should focus on the 7 issue of global survival. I would suggest that it 8 focus on three basic questions. 9 411 The first would be: What are the 10 conditions that are necessary in order to make it 11 possible for human beings to survive and to thrive on 12 this planet indefinitely into the future, obviously in 13 harmony, not only with each other but also with our 14 environment? 15 412 Second: What institutional 16 structures are required if we are to fulfil the 17 conditions that are necessary for our survival? 18 413 Third: How do we get from where we 19 are now to where we need to go? 20 414 Obviously, these are very complicated 21 questions to deal with. 22 415 I'm also recommending that our 23 university community, beginning here in Windsor, 24 develop a program to focus on those kinds of questions. 25 I would think that the CBC could help to orchestrate StenoTran 91 1 focusing the attention of people all across Canada on 2 this issue, giving an opportunity for people in our 3 education system and in public affairs organizations to 4 have public forums dealing with these issues, where not 5 only people with a high degree of expertise like David 6 Suzuki and many others would have a chance to be heard 7 but where also forums for ordinary people, even for 8 grade school children could be developed in order to 9 focus on these questions. 10 416 I know that it is very difficult for 11 people to maintain attention in dealing with complex 12 questions, but I think these particular issues are so 13 urgent and indeed can be so exciting that it would be 14 possible to develop very exciting programming focusing 15 on these problems. Obviously, they are highly 16 controversial and I think it would be very healthy for 17 Canadians and people elsewhere in the world, of course, 18 to debate these questions fully. 19 417 In the process of debating them, we 20 could draw in the insights of people from other parts 21 of the world, not only from Canada, but people like 22 Vandada Sheba(ph) in India who has had a relationship 23 with Western University who is working to help local 24 farmers in India preserve their local seed varieties 25 from a takeover by corporations that are reducing the StenoTran 92 1 genetic variety of our food crops and threatening our 2 survival in that way. 3 418 So I would just like to recommend a 4 creative initiative that would strengthen the CBC's 5 commitment to deal with public affairs. 6 419 Thank you. 7 420 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much 8 for your comments and suggestions. 9 421 Onto our next speaker. 10 422 M. RHÉAUME: La prochaine 11 présentation est celle de Mme Mina Grossman-Iani. 12 423 Nous allons aller then to Susan Haig. 13 She is not here. 14 424 Mr. David Palmer. 15 425 Finally, Mr. Liam McCarthy. 16 426 THE CHAIRPERSON: We have said that 17 the session can go until 5:00, therefore, I would like 18 to give a little more time to allow people to arrive. 19 427 In the meantime, what we will do is 20 take a short break and we will come back and, if others 21 haven't arrived, ask the CBC to make their comments on 22 this part of the day, as they will do again this 23 evening, and if our other speakers have arrived, we 24 will hear them then. 25 428 We will take a break until 3:25. I StenoTran 93 1 think it is now 3:15. Am I fast, slow? 2 --- Off microphone / Sans microphone 3 429 THE CHAIRPERSON: I'm slow? Me? 4 --- Laughter / Rires 5 430 THE CHAIRPERSON: So 3:30. Is that a 6 good compromise? Thank you. 7 431 We will see you all here at 3:30 and 8 we will hear the CBC; if not we will hear our speakers 9 who are not here at the moment. 10 432 If anybody sees them -- if you see 11 them, Mr. Carlan, would you let me know, since you seem 12 to know everyone? 13 433 MR. CARLAN: (Off microphone/sans 14 microphone...) 15 --- Recess at 1520 / Suspension à 1520 16 --- Upon resuming at 1532 / Reprise à 1532 17 434 THE CHAIRPERSON: Is there anyone 18 here who was on the schedule for this evening and would 19 like to come forward now? 20 435 MR. RHÉAUME: No. 21 436 THE CHAIRPERSON: We will wait for 22 this evening. 23 437 Okay. Just before we had our break, 24 Mr. Langs asked to speak. In fact, he was on the list 25 in the other room so I have invited him to the table at StenoTran 94 1 this point. 2 438 Following that, Mr. Plexman will 3 bring a clarification to his comments. 4 439 Mr. Langs, if you would state your 5 full name for the record. 6 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 7 440 MR. LANGS: My name is Richard Langs. 8 I am a committee of one representing just myself. 9 441 Is the CBC important? Well, as we 10 have heard from so many speakers already, it certainly 11 is, and personally I would go along with that line very 12 quickly. 13 442 A moment should be used to explain 14 I'm more a radio person than a TV person. If by 15 government decree, or something else, individuals could 16 only have the use of a radio or a TV, for yours truly 17 the TV would need be sacrificed. Don't take my radio! 18 --- Laughter / Rires 19 443 MR. LANGS: This does not suggest CBC 20 TV isn't important to me. Labour disputes aside, The 21 National with The Magazine is viewed most evenings. 22 Whenever possible, the same applies to other 23 programming such as The Fifth Estate, Market Place, 24 Venture, David Suzuki's The Nature of Things, the local 25 news at 11:30 and for sheer entertainment The Air Farce StenoTran 95 1 is certainly hard to beat. 2 444 About 80 to 85 per cent of my TV 3 viewing is spent with these programs. The other 15 per 4 cent to 20 per cent perhaps CBS' 60 Minutes, a couple 5 of dramas plus Global's 11:00 p.m. news. 6 445 In Windsor, we are fortunate to have 7 substantial CBC radio coverage. Paul Vassey in the 8 morning and Barbara Peacock in the afternoon do a fine 9 job, plus all their backup people. 10 446 In the noon to 2:00 p.m. time slot, 11 Dave Stephens(ph) clues us into news, events and other 12 items of interest to Ontarians. The CBC's national 13 network provides This Morning, The House, As It 14 Happens, Cross Country Check-up. Is the information 15 derived from their programming important to Canadians? 16 Most definitely. 17 447 Referring to As It Happens, just for 18 a brief second. I'm amazed at the number of people 19 from our own country and from the United States who 20 phone in at their own expense, not an 800 number, to 21 make a comment about items that they hear on As It 22 Happens. So our CBC does have a more profound impact 23 than it is sometimes given credit. 24 448 Would all the good things that we 25 have on CB continue if the CBC disappears? I don't StenoTran 96 1 think so. Thus, we have to maintain the CBC and, if 2 anything, expand it. 3 449 Is the CBC perfect? Far from it. 4 Apparently, the CBC brass is planning to implement a 5 new radio network at a time when regional coverage in 6 many areas does not exist. I find it incredulous a 7 city the size of London does not have a CBC outlet 8 comparable to what we have in Windsor. 9 450 Reductions to take place at three 10 foreign bureaus, a cost-saving measure no doubt 11 underlines the sheer stupidity of a third network at 12 this time. The reason for such a concept is concern 13 that fewer younger people listen to the CBC. Should we 14 be surprised at that? 15 451 Well, for myself the CBC was not 16 discovered by me until my mid-twenties. Once I became 17 a fully thinking adult, not just by age, I sought out 18 sources of info beyond that available in the press and 19 from private broadcasting. CBC coverage is distinct. 20 Quite frankly, I do not like the concentration of 21 ownership in the print and, to a lesser extent perhaps, 22 in private broadcasting. 23 452 Finally, there are those who maintain 24 the CRCT is no longer required. The Windsor Star's 25 editorial in the final paragraph said, you know, do StenoTran 97 1 away with you people. This is not my opinion. You 2 folks are, in my opinion, the watchdog of 3 telecommunications, to ensure that the public is well 4 served by broadcasters, cable operators and others. 5 453 In addition to providing 6 entertainment, the CBC is also a watchdog in my 7 opinion. They scrutinize the actions of government at 8 all levels and of businesses. Eliminating or reducing 9 the scrutiny leads to abuse. We know that from things 10 we see all the time, the athletic situation we have at 11 the moment. When this occurs, the public is 12 shortchanged in some manner. 13 454 Additionally, the politicians who are 14 motivated to truly serve the constituents and those 15 businesses we consider good corporate citizens are 16 smeared by the actions of these few scoundrels. 17 455 Thanks for providing me the 18 opportunity to present my views. 19 456 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 20 much, Mr. Langs. 21 457 You can stay with us if you would 22 like at the table or if you have to go -- 23 458 MR. LANGS: Thank you kindly. Thank 24 you. No, not at all. Thank you. 25 459 THE CHAIRPERSON: Great. StenoTran 98 1 460 Mr. Plexman. 2 PRESENTATION, Continued / PRÉSENTATION, Continuez 3 461 MR. PLEXMAN: My name is 4 Fred Plexman, as I mentioned previously. 5 462 A comment I would like to add to my 6 previous statement is regarding Radio Two. The content 7 is excellent, but I have a problem with poor local 8 reception especially when I'm in my car, the station 9 drifts or I get static noise. It could be my car 10 radio, but I have no other problem with other FM 11 stations so I presume there is something either in the 12 area I'm driving in or poorer equipment broadcasting. 13 463 Thank you very much. I just wanted 14 to get this on the record. 15 464 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 16 much. 17 465 Perhaps we could verify if anybody 18 else has come, who has not spoken, from our list. 19 466 MR. RHÉAUME: Certainly. 20 467 Madame Mina Grossman-Iani, Susan 21 Haig, David Palmer, Liam McCarthy. 22 468 THE CHAIRPERSON: Is the CBC ready to 23 come to the table? Mr. Taylor? 24 469 Thank you. 25 REPLY / RÉPLIQUE StenoTran 99 1 470 MR. TAYLOR: Madam Chair, I simply 2 want to thank everybody who took the time and the care 3 to come out and make comments about the services that 4 we provide today. Rest assured that we have been 5 listening and making careful note. 6 471 Because of the division into two 7 rooms, our people representing English radio and 8 English television, French radio and French television 9 have been separated, but we will ensure that all of the 10 comments get reflected to the appropriate places; and, 11 even more, we will endeavour to get back to individuals 12 on those specific issues, comments and questions that 13 were raised. 14 472 I would like to add just one other 15 comment. I guess it's a humbling experience to sit and 16 listen to these kind of comments, but I guess for those 17 of us who were with the CBC and here through the early 18 1990s, the expression of community support that poured 19 out then was most overwhelming and it continues to be 20 to this day. 21 473 Thank you. 22 474 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 23 much, Mr. Taylor. 24 475 As I said previously, we still have 25 some speakers who have not turned up and our schedule StenoTran 100 1 was until 5:00, so I think we will actually stay here a 2 short while, unless Mr. Palmer, Mr. McCarthy, Ms Haig 3 or Ms Grossman-Iani have joined us. 4 476 If not, I would like to take this 5 opportunity as well to thank all the participants who 6 we have seen this afternoon. 7 477 As you know, we are seeing an almost 8 equal number this evening. It is most impressive to 9 see you all turning out to offer your comments and we 10 truly appreciate your considered interest in adding to 11 the public record as we look to the upcoming decisions 12 that the CRTC will be making regarding the licence 13 renewals of the CBC Radio-Canada. 14 478 J'aimerais remercier aussi mon 15 collègue, the court reporter, the technician -- I think 16 we finally got our timing down in terms of who is 17 putting me on air and who is not -- and certainly to 18 all of you. Thank you very, very much. 19 479 As I said, with that we will close. 20 You are welcome to stay, but as well we will stay a 21 little longer in case some of our people turn up and if 22 the CBC could stay, I would appreciate it as well. 23 480 We will also reconvene at 6:00 p.m. 24 until 10:00 this evening, so if anybody is interested 25 in coming back to hear more, that would be great. StenoTran 101 1 --- Recess at 1540 / Suspension à 1540 2 --- Upon resuming at 1615 / Reprise à 1615 3 481 THE CHAIRPERSON: Welcome. We are 4 here to hear what you have to say, so we are not asking 5 questions. We have given all the time to hear the 6 participants throughout the day. So without further 7 ado, over to you. 8 482 We have set a limit of 10 minutes per 9 presentation and c'est à peu près tout. Alors, quand 10 vous serez prête. 11 483 Mme GROSSMAN-IANI: Je suis prête. 12 484 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, we actually 13 have a technician who does that and he and I have 14 finally co-ordinated, except I'm talking -- 15 --- Laughter / Rires 16 485 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Vas-y s'il vous 17 plaît. 18 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 19 486 Mme GROSSMAN-IANI: Alors, bonjour et 20 bienvenue à Windsor aux membres du CRTC. 21 487 Nous aimerions d'abord vous remercier 22 d'avoir choisi notre ville pour visiter. Évidemment, 23 vous auriez eu très tort de ne pas la visiter parce 24 que, comme dit souvent notre maire, Windsor c'est 25 l'endroit -- the place to be. StenoTran 102 1 488 C'est l'endroit pour plusieurs 2 raisons. C'est une des villes manufacturières du 3 Canada les plus importantes où la technologie est très 4 avancée, où on est habitué à travailler ensemble, en 5 partenariat -- ce nom qui est devenu tellement 6 populaire ces jours-ci -- mais qui est une réalité 7 quotidienne ici à Windsor. Finalement, c'est la porte 8 d'entrée la plus importante entre les États-Unis et le 9 Canada. C'est une ville qui célébrera dans deux ans le 10 tricentenaire de l'arrivée des premiers colons d'Europe 11 et ils parlaient français, donc, une ville avec une 12 longue histoire riche, et enfin, une ville culturelle. 13 489 Yes, you heard right, a cultural 14 city. We are the sculpture garden capital of Canada. 15 If you have a chance, you should take a walk by the 16 water and see for yourself one of the most exciting 17 locales for sculpture in the entire world at the 18 confluence of two great cities. 19 490 We have a thriving amateur theatre 20 community, one of the finest regional art galleries in 21 Canada, a great library system, a first-rank 22 university, and of course an exciting and thrilling 23 symphony orchestra that launches its 1999-2000 series 24 tomorrow at the Capital Theatre. 25 491 All the reasons I have spoken about StenoTran 103 1 in French, the good reasons you chose to visit our 2 city, are also reasons why it is important that the CBC 3 continue to exist and more than exist, continue to 4 thrive. It is a very important part of our lives as 5 Canadians in this microcosm of Canada where we are. 6 492 We live beside a media giant. It is 7 the most competitive media market in North American; 8 and I know where of I speak having worked at the CBC 9 Radio-Canada for 25 years before my retirement in 1997, 10 and now I work for the Windsor Symphony orchestra as 11 its general manager. I realize more than ever the need 12 for the public broadcaster in radio and in television. 13 493 Let's take the two medias separately 14 and talk about television first. 15 494 The CBC originates in Windsor. For 16 many years, it was the only source of local news. 17 There are alternatives now and they do a very good job, 18 but none of them has a newscast which originates here. 19 495 In any case, we need more than one 20 and a unique source of local news on television in 21 Windsor. There must be room in local television for 22 the private and the public broadcaster. Most other 23 cities have them, and we need them more than anyone 24 because of our unique situation on the border. 25 496 Private and CBC have different StenoTran 104 1 mandates and serve the public well in different ways. 2 There has been a great deal written about whether we 3 still need local CBC television stations and I'm not 4 prepared to comment on the need in other centres. 5 However, in Windsor and the surrounding area, there is 6 no doubt whatsoever about the necessity of a local CBC 7 television station. Our dial is dominated by Detroit 8 newscasts. We need local news and local cultural 9 coverage which is impossible on Detroit stations. We 10 deserve a choice, not just a single service. 11 497 To answer your specific question 12 about should CBC programming be different from private 13 broadcasters, I think it is. The CBC has done a great 14 job of bringing Canadian stories to television and they 15 should continue in that vein but they should not become 16 another PBS. 17 498 Our system is different. It is 18 partially public and partially private, and I think it 19 should remain that way here where it's a different 20 system than the United States altogether. 21 499 On the local level, the service to 22 the public is complementary between the two services, 23 between the private. The private stations are doing a 24 good job in their local coverage even though they are 25 not resident here. StenoTran 105 1 500 The local CBC goes further, as it 2 should do, especially in the cultural domain. It has 3 done extensive features on the orchestra, its guest 4 artists, its place within the community, analysis of 5 the good and the bad points, and always heeds the 6 public dialogue. It promotes the efforts of the local 7 cultural organizations. It is of supreme importance to 8 us here on the border, and it also presents a huge 9 opportunity of exposure of Canadian culture and local 10 culture in particular to the huge market of American 11 viewers who appreciate the high calibre of the CBC 12 programs. 13 501 There are many viewers who live in 14 Detroit and are more aware of Canada because of the CBC 15 and television. We know that because they tell us so, 16 and we should do more to promote Canadian artists and 17 culture to the American audience. 18 502 No artistic organization can do this 19 on its own, and believe me I know. We are a showcase 20 of Canadian talent at the Windsor Symphony and yet it 21 is very, very difficult and financially prohibitive for 22 us to try and pierce that American market. But, in 23 partnership with the Canadian media, especially the CBC 24 which is there to provide service, we could accomplish 25 a great deal. We could certainly do a great deal more StenoTran 106 1 than we are doing now. 2 503 If there were any criticism to make 3 of the television service it would be that the local 4 newscast is not long enough. There should be 5 60 minutes at the supper hour. We do not need a 6 60 minute broadcast about local Toronto news at 7 6:00 p.m. 8 504 Because our local newscast lasts only 9 30 minutes and it is the only local programming there 10 is these days on the CBC -- we used to have a lot 11 more -- cultural matters usually take the short end of 12 the stick when it comes to line up. I do understand 13 these are difficult choices to make, but there would be 14 less difficulty if we had 60 minutes of local news. 15 There is no shortage of events and issues to cover. 16 505 The National seems to be an endless 17 repeat, making those of us who miss the local news at 18 5:30 stay up until 11:25 to find out what has happened 19 in our community. This is a disastrous programming 20 choice, in my opinion. The choice to repeat The 21 National yet again at 11:00 p.m. is another sacrifice 22 of the local viewer to compete and lose a rating 23 slugfest with Lloyd Robertson. 24 506 In summary, I think we need more 25 local CBC television, not less. StenoTran 107 1 507 L'importance de Radio-Canada pour la 2 communauté francophone de la région ne peut être 3 exagérée. Si nous sommes baignés dans une mer de 4 médias américains, les francophones le sont d'autant 5 plus dans la mer d'anglophonie et de médias 6 anglophones. La communauté francophone de la région a 7 toute mon admiration pour sa ténacité d'exister et même 8 de fleurir 300 ans après l'arrivée du Sieur Lamothe 9 Cadillac(ph) dans des conditions pas toujours idéales. 10 Je parle de la communauté francophone et non pas du 11 Sieur. 12 --- Laughter / Rires 13 508 Mme GROSSMAN-IANI: Mais, et là je 14 l'écris en noir -- très noir -- nous avons besoin de 15 RDI ici. Vous devriez le mandater comme vous l'avez 16 fait pour TVA. C'est encore plus important que TVA... 17 TVA c'est très bien aussi. Il ne faudra pas l'enlever. 18 Il faut ajouter... il faut forcer le service local de 19 le présenter. 20 509 Nous attendons depuis des années son 21 arrivée. On pensait qu'avec l'achat du cablôdiffuseur 22 local par Cogeco qu'on aurait eu le service. On ne l'a 23 pas et les gens se plaignent. Plusieurs s'en plaignent 24 et je sais que les gens m'en ont parlé. Ils m'en ont 25 parlé ça fait longtemps, mais tout est en vain. Alors, StenoTran 108 1 moi je trouve que c'est un gros manque ici. 2 510 Now to radio. 3 511 Both local and national, French and 4 English are important to me, personally as a listener 5 and also as a manager of a cultural institution. Our 6 local coverage on radio is excellent. I am sure that 7 when our first CD is recorded, we will have much air 8 play on our local airwaves -- n'est-ce-pas, Bruce? 9 512 Our concerts and special events are 10 announced and covered. The audience for most symphony 11 concerts resembles very closely the listeners at the 12 CBC. It's a very good partnership. 13 513 Once again, there are many listeners 14 in the Detroit area and it is to the advantage of 15 Canadian artists to be exposed to that large American 16 audience, both on the national and on the local 17 perspective. 18 514 I have a criticism of one area. It 19 may be something that is -- I don't know if the CRTC is 20 aware of it, but on the communications side there has 21 been a recent tendency to try and negotiate exclusive 22 sponsorships with some cultural organizations. I knew 23 about it. It was a policy when I was there as well. I 24 understand the reasons for it. 25 515 The CBC doesn't want to be taken for StenoTran 109 1 granted. They want to receive the recognition they 2 feel they deserve. But it is a hardship for 3 organizations like the Windsor Symphony Orchestra. We 4 need contact with all media and not just the CBC. The 5 private media have been doing an excellent job of 6 covering our events as well and they should be 7 encouraged to do so and we should not be penalized for 8 that. 9 516 It's very, very strange to me that 10 the CBC will only promote the concerts they sponsor. 11 They will not promote our POPS concert, for example, 12 which was sponsored by the local competition, the 13 private radio station. However, the competition does 14 promote our classics concerts. So I think the CBC is 15 going a little far in its strategy. It is a public 16 service. It should promote all our concerts whether 17 they sponsor them or not. 18 517 One of the most ridiculous things 19 about CBC radio is the fact that it -- this is the 20 English radio -- is the fact that it closes down at 21 6:00 p.m. on Friday night and doesn't open again until 22 Monday morning at whatever time. 23 518 The local CBC station is our 24 bidirectional microphone to the rest of the musical 25 world in Canada. It's very, very important. The fact StenoTran 110 1 that they are part of a network, they can make sure our 2 stories about the orchestra and about life in general 3 here, they can make sure that these are heard in the 4 rest of the country. The fact is that the local CBC 5 station, as a part of this network, is a very great 6 advantage. They also inform us, the national network, 7 so much about the life of the arts and the rest of the 8 country and the world. 9 519 There are too few Canadian voices on 10 our dial -- if you have done our radio dial, and if you 11 haven't you definitely should do it. It is the most 12 amazing radio dial you have ever heard. There are just 13 hundreds of stations from it. There is one French 14 voice and there is one public broadcasting voice as the 15 calibre of the CBC. There is national public radio, 16 but it doesn't compare to our Canadian Broadcasting 17 Corporation and it is a very important service we have 18 here. 19 520 There used to be considerable 20 resources devoted to recording local orchestras. Now 21 these recordings are too few and far between. 22 521 For example, this February we 23 presented an all Canadian program. It was a very 24 ambitious undertaking and most orchestras would not do 25 it on their main series, but we did it. All Canadian StenoTran 111 1 program, all Canadian soloists. Right up the CBC's 2 alley for recording. It was in February, the end of 3 their budget time. They didn't have any money to 4 record it and it is just a big shame really. 5 522 I know the budgets have been 6 shrinking, but some of the choices that are being made 7 are not necessarily in favour of small but very high 8 calibre professional orchestras like ours, so there is 9 less money spent on regional orchestras. I think it is 10 a huge mistake, you know, to record the Toronto 11 Symphony Orchestra. They have all sorts of recordings 12 and are going to make more. The Montreal Symphony 13 Orchestra as well. 14 523 The only chance for smaller 15 orchestras like ours is usually the public broadcaster. 16 They have promised us, however, to record something 17 next season, so we are optimistic. 18 524 Je vais parler un petit peu de CBEF 19 maintenant. Comme une radio locale, c'est un outil 20 essentiel pour l'épanouissement de la communauté 21 francophone de notre région. C'est une radio qui 22 couvre la vie culturelle de façon excellente parce 23 qu'en français, nous savons que la survie ça passe par 24 la culture. La station est près de sa communauté et 25 comprend ses besoins, plus encore qu'en anglais. StenoTran 112 1 525 La station cherche des occasions de 2 sortir dans la communauté pour refléter les activités 3 des divers groupes. Elle travaille avec le monde 4 scolaire et d'autres groupes culturels pour reconnaître 5 le dynamisme des gens. En même temps, elle garde sa 6 crédibilité journalistique qui est une de ses marques 7 de commerce. 8 526 Alors, en conclusion, merci pour 9 l'opportunité de vous adresser la parole et j'aimerais 10 réitérer l'importance de Radio-Canada dans la vie des 11 gens de la région. 12 527 We need more CBC, not less, and we 13 especially need more local programming. 14 528 Thank you. 15 529 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 16 much. 17 530 Susan. 18 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 19 531 MS HAIG: I'm Susan Haig, the 20 Artistic Director of the Windsor Symphony Orchestra. I 21 will speak informally. 22 532 I'm impressed with Mina's ability to 23 do this report and to have a season announcement of our 24 next season tomorrow morning at 9:30. 25 533 This is my thirteenth year in Canada. StenoTran 113 1 I started out with the Canadian Opera Company in 2 Toronto and then spent three years as the Staff 3 Conductor of the Calgary Philharmonic Orchestra before 4 coming to Windsor eight years ago. The CBC has been a 5 very significant part of my whole artistic experience, 6 both personally as an artist and in understanding the 7 artistry of Canada and I continue to be grateful for 8 its existence and intrigued by its potential to further 9 a vital culture, especially in a greatly changing 10 environment. 11 534 I want to say what I have experienced 12 recently with the private networks, because I have been 13 very pleased by the changes toward arts and culture 14 that I have experienced in Windsor. I will start with 15 private radio. 16 535 As this city has changed in its 17 attitude towards arts, arts has become much more a part 18 of community life. They have changed quite instantly 19 so that three or four years ago one of the private 20 radio stations began doing a live arts update on 21 Tuesday mornings about seven to 10 minutes a morning. 22 Last year we were enjoying 10 minutes a week of 23 orchestra notes. This was on private radio. 24 536 MR. RHÉAUME: Excuse me. Could you 25 move your microphone away a little bit. StenoTran 114 1 537 MS HAIG: Sure. Sure. Sorry about 2 that. 3 538 MR. RHÉAUME: I apologize. 4 539 MS HAIG: There have been informal 5 interviews. There have been regular features. I have 6 had 25-minute interviews. We have had this Tuesday 7 morning live update. So I think there is a big change 8 there. If CBC didn't exist, I think we would kind of 9 lope along and the public would find out something 10 about arts. 11 540 Despite the fact that that has been 12 happening, I do feel that there is an essential and 13 exciting role for CBC and a new role in the new 14 millennium. I see changes happening, perhaps a little 15 more gradually than I would like, but I see great 16 changes in attitudes in CBC. 17 541 Now I will go back to the 18 relationship I have enjoyed for the last seven years 19 here. A personal one. Many lively conversations. 20 Many visits to the CBC bureau. Many interviews. 21 Ticket giveaways. CBC hosts at our concerts. CBC 22 reporters experiencing our concerts as part of the 23 audience and talking about it later. This has been 24 invigorating. 25 542 I think that the potential is perhaps StenoTran 115 1 double and triple for us to do more. I think the 2 biggest change would be thinking of the CBC as a 3 collaborator with not-for-profit organizations now in 4 creating a vital culture. I think the old way of 5 looking at it was that CBC was the big father producer 6 from the urban centres and perhaps there was a time 7 when that was appropriate in Canada. But as Canada is 8 coming of age culturally, there is a great diversity of 9 activity, a diversification of activity, a much greater 10 fratility on the local level and just a greater 11 abundance of artists. 12 543 I must say, in my years of being in 13 Canada I don't know if I'm staggered more by the number 14 of fantastic performers for a country this size that 15 are working all over the world or by the lack of 16 awareness of these artists by the broader public. I 17 don't know which is more staggering. I think that it's 18 a good news and a bad news thing, because I think it is 19 extraordinary the number of singers and the number of 20 young performers. 21 544 What I love to see CBC adopt in a 22 continually changing mindset -- and I again say that I 23 see that it is changing and I think it is very 24 exciting -- I believe that it can maximize public 25 access to Canadian ideas, whereas the private networks StenoTran 116 1 could do some. But CBC could be the forward edge, they 2 could be the cutting edge through more in depth 3 conversations with artists. I think the CBC could 4 maximize public awareness of cultural activity. Again, 5 the private networks will do some awareness, but CBC 6 could do more. 7 545 The most critical, I think, the 8 critical role and the critical opportunity, is that the 9 CBC could create public familiarity with Canadian 10 artists, thinkers, authors and creators. Now, this is 11 where I have been most frustrated in the tendency to 12 reflect the networks, to reflect the mainstream. The 13 CBC has also waited until artists are recognized 14 elsewhere. 15 546 I personally experienced a funny 16 thing. 17 547 Once I had been interviewed by the 18 Toronto Star as a kind of up-and-coming artist and 19 they -- you know, I have looked for months -- and, 20 finally, five months after the performance that they 21 were talking about, an article appeared in the Toronto 22 Star, "Susan Haig: Up-and-coming conductor". Right 23 away there were calls from CBC for an interview. Now, 24 why was CBC waiting until -- it meant that they were 25 reading the Toronto Star and getting their material StenoTran 117 1 from that, whereas they should know me. They should be 2 the ones putting it forward. It was very interesting. 3 548 So if the CBC took the first step to 4 create that familiarity by having a more hands-on 5 connection to artists, I think they could then be the 6 leader, that they would then be reflected by other 7 media. I think that would be an exciting role. 8 549 I'm happy to see some other changing 9 assumptions and, again, it's slow, it's slow going. I 10 mean, there has been a strong CBC culture and one of 11 the aspects of that has been a split between arts and 12 news. I mean, I think that happened early in radio. 13 There were the newscasters and then there was the 14 cultural side. 15 550 But the more that's integrated the 16 better. It is very exciting to see arts being looked 17 at as news. Art is news. I would like to see the two 18 words thrown together, although if you put them 19 together too quickly it's "artsnooze" which isn't going 20 to do anybody any good. But I think that arts as news 21 is something we should capitalize on. 22 551 I'm glad to be seeing a broadening 23 conception of arts as all arts activity. I think the 24 distinction between high and low is antiquated, is 25 false and is something we should all throw out. The StenoTran 118 1 more the general public understands that it's a mix of 2 public activity, the better. I think that the FM 3 Morning Show is showing that very well. Just a great 4 mix of music. 5 552 Also I would like to see a continuing 6 redefinition of "culture" as an activity of the people, 7 not as an industry. I think the view of cultural 8 industries as culture has been absolutely dominant in 9 Canada and I just don't understand why it continues and 10 why it is not questioned. I think this means we have 11 been looking in the wrong places to protect industries 12 rather than to foster activity and this is again where 13 CBC can be so, so effective in fostering local 14 activity. 15 553 I believe that an authentic national 16 culture arises from authentic and vigorous activity in 17 a local, and the greater degree to which that is 18 enhanced and affirmed now by the central networks the 19 better, and I think that is where their role can be 20 most exciting. 21 554 I agree with Mina. One thing that 22 must change is CBC must live for the weekends. The 23 weekend is when a national cultural life intensifies 24 naturally. Instead, CBC seems to have adapted itself 25 to the workaday world and adopted a schedule that StenoTran 119 1 reflects the marketplace. In going home on the 2 weekends, it hasn't been there when a locale is 3 creating. 4 555 I think that Monday should be this 5 great thrilling round up of reportage: What went on 6 over the weekend; what happened here; what did we hear; 7 who was there; what did they sound like; what were 8 their ideas? If it can be restructured in such a way 9 that some people work primarily on weekends and it 10 doesn't cost more to have a camera available Saturday 11 night, then of course there would be a greater degree 12 of reflection activity. 13 556 Again, as I said, what can public 14 broadcasting do that the private broadcasters can't do? 15 I think that, again, it gets down to being at the 16 creative edge. The private broadcasters will 17 necessarily focus on pretested products. The CBC can 18 take risks with what is new and creative. 19 557 As an orchestral conductor, we are 20 always doing research and development. Every single 21 concert is untested. Every single one is a risk: it's 22 a new interpretation, it's a new format, it's a new 23 program, it's a new combination of works, it's a new 24 Canadian artist that we haven't worked with. So there 25 is a risk in that. StenoTran 120 1 558 But the CBC, as the public 2 broadcaster, could believe in that risk taking and say 3 "We are going to put it out there anyway, before we 4 have heard it." That would create the old excitement 5 of live radio, live TV, not knowing, the unexpected. 6 559 I also believe the CBC could be 7 fostering public life, fostering citizenship and 8 encouraging its citizens to be engaged in community 9 life. I never got the sense that there was any clarity 10 as to whether CBC ultimately wanted people to be home 11 watching the news at nine o'clock or out at the school 12 board meetings. I think that there has to be an 13 awareness that the more citizens are engaged in public 14 life the better, and scheduling around that is an 15 important thing. 16 560 Finally, I want to say that I think 17 that the whole group at Windsor has been tremendous. 18 The bureau is full or usually full of extremely 19 interesting, creative, questioning people. I have 20 enjoyed the conversations with them. I would just like 21 to have more contact with them. I would like to have 22 constant contact with them. 23 561 I think that in Windsor we have a 24 particularly exciting potential. I don't know if you 25 will have time to walk six blocks down toward the StenoTran 121 1 bridge before you leave and circle around that area, 2 but we have a potential west downtown cultural district 3 that could be extraordinary on the border of Canada. 4 There is going to be a new art gallery there. There is 5 a whole campusy potential feel for that area of town if 6 we also got a museum, some sort of music hall. I won't 7 go into -- you know, no conflict of interest there. 8 562 But CBC is perfectly positioned 9 adjacent to this area. I would love to see in four 10 years constant innovative programs that are created 11 here with cameras, with microphones right in there. 12 Quick talk that week. Not something totally 13 prescripted, but experimental. I think as the border, 14 we should be a great border showcase, just typing all 15 the Canadian artists right into the states. 16 563 I think it could happen and I would 17 love to see it happen. 18 564 Thank you very much. 19 565 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 20 much, Ms Haig. Thank you both for being here. 21 566 Mister -- 22 567 MR. PALMER: David Palmer. 23 568 THE CHAIRPERSON: -- David Palmer. 24 569 Mr. Palmer, as my colleague may have 25 explained, we had such a good participation here that StenoTran 122 1 we split the list today so we came up to the end of the 2 list a little earlier than planned. So there were many 3 more people in the room, not to give you the impression 4 that no one came today. 5 570 I'm Joan Pennefather, I'm a 6 Commissioner; and Barbara Cam is a Commissioner; and 7 our legal counsel, Donald Rhéaume. 8 571 In my earlier remarks, as I said also 9 to Ms Grossman and Ms Haig, we are here to hear what 10 you have to say so we are not asking questions. To 11 give everybody the maximum time we did ask to keep 12 remarks until around 10 minutes. We are here to hear 13 what you have to say about the CBC, your expectations 14 and views. 15 572 So without further ado. 16 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 17 573 MR. PALMER: First of all, I thank 18 you for this opportunity. 19 574 Music at the University of Windsor 20 very much appreciates the opportunity to speak about 21 its concerns with the Canadian Broadcasting 22 Corporation. 23 575 I should say that I have talked with 24 Ms Haig yesterday about her presentation and her, I 25 think, fullness of ideas and eloquence in expressing StenoTran 123 1 them I think are all aspects that we endorse. It's 2 very, very exciting to work with Ms Haig as a colleague 3 in our music activities here. 4 576 Overall, in both television and 5 radio, we would affirm that the CBC should be doing 6 what private broadcasters cannot or will not do, that 7 is, provide a commercial-free presentation of the most 8 interesting television and radio material that the 9 country has to offer from all parts of the country. 10 This needn't be limited to so-called highbrow material. 11 It should include a broad spectrum of music and drama, 12 especially given the countries growing ethnic mix, a 13 wider celebration of the cultures in the country would 14 be welcome. 15 577 Personally, a program I enjoyed a few 16 years ago was hosted by Sal Ferrarus(ph) in Vancouver 17 and featured music with Latin American and African 18 roots. I also think of Marcel Beneteau who is 19 pioneering work and researching and recording the music 20 of the francophone community of this area and was 21 partially sponsored by the CBC. We applaud that kind 22 of thing. 23 578 MME GROSSMAN-IANI: Radio-Canada. 24 579 MR. PALMER: Radio-Canada. Of 25 course. My apologize. StenoTran 124 1 --- Laughter / Rires 2 580 MME GROSSMAN-IANI: No, no. It's 3 just a little joke. 4 581 MR. PALMER: In the medium of radio, 5 we feel that the CBC does fulfil its mandate to the 6 best of its resources and shudder at the prospect of 7 cultural life in Canada without it, even taking into 8 account the unpredictability of the current 9 programming. 10 582 We would like to acknowledge the 11 media sponsorship by the local CBC in advertising 12 university-produced concerts in return for a promotion 13 in our program booklets. 14 583 Certainly, I would endorse Ms Haig's 15 comments about the local CBC and how supportive and 16 encouraging they have been in promoting local events. 17 584 That being said, we would like to 18 express a concern about the classical music program. 19 We would wish for more time given to concerts featuring 20 Canadian artists who represent less frequently heard 21 regions of the country. Over many years now, my 22 colleagues and I have attended programs in this area 23 that we thought deserving of wider dissemination in 24 terms of excellence of performance, remarkability of 25 repertoire and/or significance topically. StenoTran 125 1 585 Often we have said to one another, 2 "Isn't it too bad this concert couldn't have been 3 broadcast?" The growing number of such high-level 4 performances presented in this region must truly 5 correspond to concerts given in similar centres in the 6 country, that is, remote enough from CBC production 7 centres to prove too costly to travel to for broadcast 8 purposes, which results we feel in an atypical 9 representation of the concert offerings in the country. 10 586 It is apparent however that budget 11 cuts to the CBC are affecting its ability, in radio 12 particularly, to fulfil its mandate. It's noteworthy 13 that in recent years evening Radio One programming has 14 given over more and more to repeat broadcasts or to 15 DJ-type shows at that time of the night, for instance. 16 Even Ideas, the program Ideas, is doing more and more 17 repeat programming. The main afternoon show, 18 Richardson's Roundup, is almost entirely made up of 19 repeat material. We lost local weekend programming 20 some time ago, as Ms Haig mentioned, and so on. 21 587 The present climate and increase in 22 local concert pick-up, as mentioned earlier, might seem 23 like a pipe dream, especially when CBC is now talking 24 about Radio Three for younger audiences. 25 588 So in conclusion, we feel that StenoTran 126 1 clearly the CBC needs more funding and not less. 2 589 Thank you again. 3 590 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Thank 4 you for coming, Mr. Palmer. Thank you both for coming. 5 591 As I explained also earlier, we 6 invite the CBC to come to the table at the end of the 7 presentations to make any comments they wish to make. 8 They did so earlier, but I would invite Mr. Taylor back 9 if he wanted to offer reflection on your remarks. 10 REPLY / RÉPLIQUE 11 592 MR. TAYLOR: Reflection might lead to 12 debate on some of the remarks. I will refrain. 13 593 I would like to simply thank 14 Mr. Palmer, Susan and Mina for their comments, and the 15 Commission for the opportunity. 16 594 Even though my responsibilities are 17 limited to television these days, please be assured 18 that your comments, challenges and suggestions will be 19 carried forward to all of my colleagues, both in 20 English and French radio and French television. 21 595 Thank you very much. 22 596 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 23 much. 24 597 I think that draws this portion of 25 the public consultation to a close. Thank you all. StenoTran 127 1 Thank you again to our technical crew and to my 2 colleagues and to the participants for joining us 3 today. 4 598 We reconvene again at 6:00 until 5 10:00 this evening, and you are most welcome to join us 6 if you wish to continue to hear the comments. 7 599 Thank you. 8 --- Recess at 1645 / Suspension à 1645 9 --- Upon resuming at 1647 / Reprise à 1647 10 600 THE CHAIRPERSON: All right. Antonio 11 Dominato. 12 601 MS DOMINATO: Antonia -- 13 602 THE CHAIRPERSON: Antonia. 14 603 MS DOMINATO: Antonia Dominato. 15 604 THE CHAIRPERSON: -- Dominato. 16 605 MS DOMINATO: Right. 17 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 18 606 MS DOMINATO: First of all, what 19 happened to Adrienne Clarkson? Replacement for 20 Peter Gzowski is dreadful. Those two people -- you 21 know, Peter Gzowski was working. So when these two 22 came on they said, "Oh, no, no, it's not going to 23 follow the same pattern as Peter Gzowski. We are going 24 to do our own thing." 25 607 If it ain't broke, don't fix it. StenoTran 128 1 That's my attitude. And I have tried and tried to 2 listen to them and they turn me right off. 3 608 Rita MacNeil, why was she let go 4 after three years? Tommy Hunter, Front Page Challenge. 5 609 Let's face it, the majority of the 6 people that listen to these programs and watch TV, 7 these programs, are the seniors, are the ones that are 8 a little older. The young people, they have all kinds 9 of stations in Detroit to listen to. If you have the 10 pipe dream that you are going to draw all these young 11 kids, I'm afraid you have got -- because the majority 12 that listen to this are your seniors or the 13 mid-seniors. 14 610 First of all, up here with 15 Peter Gzowski, the kids are all in school or they have 16 jobs or whatever, or other people have jobs, so they 17 are not going to be listening to him. I know 18 Peter Gzowski left on his own, but my God you must have 19 had better people than the two that you did hire. 20 611 Tommy Hunter, really wonderful. They 21 brought in musicians. 22 612 Rita MacNeil. Now, if you want to 23 appeal to young people, she was bringing unknown bands. 24 So you got Rita MacNeil which drew in the older group. 25 Then, the younger group, when they heard that all these StenoTran 129 1 bands were coming, they zoomed in. 2 613 I mean, whoever makes these 3 decisions, you often wonder. I'm still madder than 4 hell about in 1990 when we lost CBC local news for four 5 years. 6 614 Now, the other one that's really 7 bugging me is CBC news comes on at ten o'clock with 8 Peter Mansbridge. Great. Then what's -- I can't try 9 to think of the name of the program after that. 10 It's -- oh, you know, the little tidbits that they do 11 on it. Is it The National? What is it? 12 615 MR. TAYLOR: The Magazine. 13 616 MS DOMINATO: The Magazine. That's 14 it, dear. 15 617 That's fine. I'm not objecting to 16 that. I love that. That 10 hour to 11 hour is fine 17 618 But then why in God's name do you 18 have to bring back Peter Mansbridge at 11:00? We just 19 saw him at ten o'clock. So what do we have to do in 20 the local area? We have to wait until 11:30 to see our 21 local news and see a repeat of ten o'clock. That is 22 stupid. The bigwigs up in Toronto or Ottawa, wherever 23 the decisions are made, are crazy. They are not 24 thinking of us. 25 619 I love Peter Mansbridge. Okay. We StenoTran 130 1 don't want to get rid of him. Then we have the -- what 2 is it again? 3 620 MR. TAYLOR: The Magazine. 4 621 MS DOMINATO: The Magazine. 5 622 I'm getting old. I'm 70-years old, 6 but I'm still madder than hell about some things, I'll 7 tell you. 8 623 The Magazine. Okay. And then to 9 bring Peter Mansbridge back -- can't you see what I'm 10 talking about? And then we have to sit around here 11 until 11:30 waiting for our local news, because I'm 12 such a news junkie and I have told them before when I'm 13 out and about doing my things I tape it. I tape the 14 5:30 news. I tape what used to be the eleven o'clock 15 news, but now it's 11:30. And Midday, my God, I can't 16 miss Midday. I just love Midday. I would tape that. 17 624 Again, who is watching Midday? They 18 are doing a wonderful program, but you have to keep in 19 mind it's hard to get the young people to tune in. 20 They have already established their listening habits. 21 They are with the American stations because we are 22 flooded with the American stations. They are listening 23 to others, okay? They have the university things and 24 so on. 25 625 That's about what really bugs me. StenoTran 131 1 626 And I love CBC, and I certainly don't 2 want commercials. Forget it. We have been known for 3 non-commercial TV, non-commercial radio. I certainly 4 don't want that. 5 627 Of course we have a wonderful guy, 6 Bruce knows that, it's Paul Vassey. He is super. 7 Don't you dare take him away from us unless you are 8 offering him more money and he wants to leave us. But 9 he is wonderful. 10 628 I wake up in the morning and I reach 11 over and turn on the radio at six o'clock. All three 12 radios in my apartment are on CBC. I don't know what 13 is going on on the others. And the same in my car, CBC 14 AM and FM. 15 629 Sheila Rogers. Everybody was hoping 16 she would replace Peter Gzowski because she had been on 17 with Peter Gzowski. They were the same type. They 18 were the kind that you wanted to listen to. Well, you 19 give us this other guy -- what's his name? And then 20 Averil. They are terrible. I'm sure you must have 21 gotten many complaints, at least letters to the editor 22 that I have read and columns by columnists from the 23 Globe and Mail and Toronto Star. You know? You can't 24 compare them. 25 630 There must have been better StenoTran 132 1 personalities you could have hired than those two to 2 replace Peter Gzowski, because, oh God, Peter Gzowski 3 was talking to guys in their air conditioned 4 tractor-trailers out on the farm. You would be 5 listening to some truck driver, you would be listening 6 to some woman in her kitchen. And I miss listening to 7 the people from the north, the Inuits. He had such a 8 wonderful rapport with those people up there that were 9 running the radio stations. Oh. Really I felt so 10 Canadian when I was listening to him. I really did. 11 He just made you feel wonderful. 12 631 I know we can't replace 13 Peter Gzowski, but there must have been some better 14 than -- I'm sorry, but there must have been some. 15 632 But those were my beefs and I 16 thought, well, I'll try and say my two cents just to 17 you people and if not I was going to write it down and 18 give it to you in the mail, but I have written down the 19 points here. 20 633 You really made a mistake in letting 21 go Adrienne Clarkson. I don't know when she is on. I 22 can't find her. I check my TV Guide every night and I 23 don't see her. She was wonderful. The programs, the 24 music and the art. 25 634 That was another one, Arts & StenoTran 133 1 Entertainment on Sundays, you know? I don't know who 2 the bigwigs are that make these decisions, but I'm very 3 unhappy. The only one I'm happy with is Paul Vassey. 4 He is a good, familiar voice, you know, Bruce? And 5 then these other people that they have brought in and 6 then the wonderful TV programs. 7 635 This is what you have to remember, 8 that it's, you know, our age group, the seniors, okay, 9 and the ones in their fifties that were listening to 10 these things. To try to jazz it all up, you know, I 11 don't know if you are going to get that many young 12 people to switch to us. 13 636 I did read an article that this 14 person is a faithful follower of CBC. Why? Because at 15 home when she was a child CBC radio was on all the time 16 and it just grew into her system. So now as an adult, 17 as a mother, a homemaker at home, she has CBC. The 18 kids might not like it, but she says it stays on CBC. 19 637 And just to be a little personal. 20 When I was growing up my dear dad, God bless him, would 21 lie down on the couch on Sunday afternoons listening to 22 Texaco live from the Metropolitan Opera. That's how I 23 got to love opera because we would go over, thinking he 24 was asleep, we were going to switch the channel. 25 "Don't touch that radio." And we didn't. So every StenoTran 134 1 Saturday afternoon we were listening to the 2 Metropolitan Opera live from New York, from Texaco, you 3 know. 4 638 So that's what I had to say. 5 639 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, thank you. 6 Thank you for -- 7 640 MS DOMINATO: But I do hope you get 8 that message across to the bigwigs. They are the -- 9 641 MR. TAYLOR: I will take it back to 10 them -- 11 642 MS DOMINATO: You will, too, eh, 12 dear? 13 643 MR. TAYLOR: Yes. 14 644 MS DOMINATO: He knows how hard I 15 fought for the CBC, out there in the cold in December. 16 "Sign the petition! Save our station!" 17 --- Laughter / Rires 18 645 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 19 much. 20 646 MS DOMINATO: You're welcome. Nice 21 to be -- and thank you for listening. I was afraid for 22 a minute that you were going to kick me out because the 23 time was up. 24 647 THE CHAIRPERSON: No. That's not why 25 we are here. StenoTran 135 1 --- Recess at 1700 / Suspension à 1700 2 --- Upon resuming at 1800 / Reprise à 1800 3 648 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Alors, je pense qu'on 4 va commencer. I think we will start our session. 5 649 Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. 6 Welcome to this public consultation on the CBC. 7 650 My name is Joan Pennefather. I'm a 8 Commissioner at the CRTC. As you have already noticed, 9 my colleague, Barbara Cram, who is also a Commissioner, 10 is in the next room. We have had such an excellent 11 response here in Windsor that we have divided the group 12 into two as we did this afternoon. 13 651 We are here to gather your views and 14 comments on CBC radio and television. 15 652 In your opinion, how should the 16 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation fulfil its role in 17 the coming years? 18 653 The CBC is a national public service, 19 broadcasting in English as well as in French. It plays 20 an important role in the Canadian Broadcasting system. 21 654 Today, many elements are constantly 22 being added to the broadcasting system as new 23 technologies multiply, converge, open up new horizons 24 and increasingly offer new services. In this context, 25 we want to know what are your needs and expectations as StenoTran 136 1 viewers and listeners of the CBC. 2 655 Nous sommes ici pour recueillir vos 3 points de vue et vos commentaires sur la radio et la 4 télévision de Radio-Canada. Comment croyez-vous que 5 Radio-Canada devrait remplir son rôle dans les années à 6 venir? Voilà le genre de questions auxquelles nous 7 voulons entendre vos réponses. 8 656 Il est très important pour le Conseil 9 d'entendre ce que vous avez à dire à ce sujet. Il ne 10 faut pas oublier que le CRTC est un organisme public au 11 service des citoyens et citoyennes. À ce titre, il a 12 une responsabilité envers eux. C'est pourquoi mes 13 collègues-conseillers et moi-même trouvons essentiel de 14 venir vous rencontrer. 15 657 Nous sommes donc présents dans onze 16 villes canadiennes du 9 au 18 mars inclusivement pour 17 tenir cette série de consultations régionales d'un bout 18 à l'autre du pays. 19 658 It is indeed very important that the 20 Commission hears what you have to say. We must not 21 lose sight of the fact that the CRTC is a public 22 organization that serves Canadian citizens. In this 23 capacity, we are responsible to you. This is why my 24 fellow Commissioners and myself find it vital to come 25 and meet with you to discuss these issues and why we StenoTran 137 1 are holding this series of regional consultations, from 2 one end of the country to the other, in 11 Canadian 3 cities, from March 9 to March 18 inclusive. 4 659 These consultations are designed to 5 give you a chance, on the eve of the new millennium, to 6 express your opinion on the CBC's role, the programming 7 it offers and the direction it should take at the 8 national, regional and local levels. 9 660 Through these consultations we hope 10 to enter into an open dialogue with you and to hear 11 your concerns. Your comments will form part of the 12 public record which will be added to the record of the 13 public hearing on the CBC that will begin in Hull next 14 May 25th. 15 661 At this upcoming hearing in May, the 16 Commission will examine the CBC's application for the 17 renewal of its licences including radio, television and 18 its specialty services, Newsworld and Réseau de 19 l'information. You can also take part in that public 20 hearing by sending your written comments to the CRTC. 21 If you wish to do so, please remember to refer to the 22 specific licence renewals being examined when you file 23 your comments. 24 662 Tous vos commentaires feront partie 25 du dossier public. Il sera lui-même ajouté à celui de StenoTran 138 1 l'audience publique qui s'ouvrira à Hull le 25 mai 2 prochain. C'est au cours de cette audience que le 3 Conseil étudiera les demandes pour renouveler les 4 licences de radio et de télévision de Radio-Canada 5 ainsi que de ses services spécialisés: RDI et 6 Newsworld. 7 663 Vous pouvez aussi participer à cette 8 audience en faisant parvenir une intervention écrite au 9 CRTC. Vos observations devront alors porter 10 spécifiquement sur le renouvellement des licences en 11 question. 12 664 Now I would like to come to this 13 evening's consultations. 14 665 Please allow me to introduce a member 15 of our staff who is assisting us in this room, 16 Donald Rhéaume, our legal counsel. Rod Lahay is in the 17 other room with my colleague. Rod is from Broadcast 18 Planning Service. 19 666 Please feel free to call on them with 20 any questions you might have about the process today or 21 any other matter. 22 667 So that everyone will have a chance 23 to speak, we ask that you limit your presentation to 24 10 minutes. 25 668 As these consultations are a forum StenoTran 139 1 designed especially for you, and we want to listen to 2 as many participants as possible, we will not ask any 3 questions unless we need clarification. 4 669 Pour que vous ayez tous l'occasion de 5 vous faire entendre, nous vous demandons de limiter 6 votre présentation à 10 minutes. Ces consultations 7 sont votre tribune à vous et nous voulons être à 8 l'écoute du plus grand nombre possible d'intervenants. 9 Nous ne poserons donc pas de questions, sauf si nous 10 avons besoin de clarification. 11 670 Après vos interventions, les 12 représentants des stations locales de Radio-Canada 13 auront également droit de parole puisque ce sont les 14 premières intéressées par les questions que nous avons 15 abordées aujourd'hui. 16 671 At the end of this session, 17 representatives from the local CBC stations will have a 18 chance to offer their views as they are naturally very 19 interested in the issues we are discussing here today. 20 672 Just before we start with our first 21 participant, I will ask M. Rhéaume just to explain the 22 déroulement, the way the evening will proceed. 23 673 MR. RHÉAUME: Thank you, Madam Chair. 24 674 We will be calling two groups, 25 actually, those that can follow on the agenda. StenoTran 140 1 675 We will start with Mr. Jonathan 2 Sachs; Jane Cacciavillani -- 3 676 THE CHAIRPERSON: If you would come 4 to the table as your name is called. We will bring 5 10 people to the table at once. 6 677 Are you Jane? 7 678 MR. RHÉAUME: If you want to join us 8 at the table. 9 679 THE CHAIRPERSON: Come on down, as 10 they say. 11 680 MR. RHÉAUME: Mme Nicole Germain; 12 David Shragge; Dean La Bute; Sarah Trusty; Emil Nakhle; 13 Dr. Alfie Morgan; and, Mr. Paul Rousseau. 14 681 I guess Mr. Sachs is not here. 15 682 Mr. Peter Wilkinson; Howard Pawley. 16 Kindly join us. 17 683 I guess we will start with 18 Jane Cacciavillani. 19 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 20 684 MS CACCIAVILLANI: The CBC is 21 important to Canada in many ways (off microphone/sans 22 microphone...) Canadian culture and gives us a 23 Canadian perspective in journalism, both to us and to 24 the world. 25 685 There is also a great deal of StenoTran 141 1 material that educates the public in different areas, 2 whether it is scientific advances, social issues, 3 business and financial and economic issues, just to 4 name a few. 5 686 To quote Rex Murphy, the mandate is 6 to provide a neutral exchange of familiarities between 7 the regions. 8 687 Of course every mature country at the 9 end of the twentieth century has a public broadcaster. 10 I think all we really need is the political will from 11 the governments that support the CBC, but I will talk 12 more about that later on. 13 688 The thing I like best about the CBC 14 is that it cannot be bought out by private interests. 15 Conrad Black, for one, has been buying a lot of media 16 and I think that is far too much concentration. I 17 think it is refreshing to have the CBC and have that 18 different voice to listen to. A big amen to that. 19 689 As for the direction it should take, 20 I do believe that the CBC needs to be funded more 21 solidly. CBC TV I think could benefit from this a lot 22 because I think that if they had more money they could 23 get away from commercials and have their outlook be 24 more purely public and it would have more public 25 appeal. StenoTran 142 1 690 Right at the moment, CBC TV gets 2 50 per cent of its money from ads and I just don't 3 think that's the way to go. But, like I said, if it 4 was more solidly funded, we wouldn't have this problem. 5 691 I also like the idea of CBC 6 Radio Three for youth. It can do no harm, and I think 7 probably a lot of good for the corporation, to secure a 8 new, loyal audience. The only problem with this is 9 that for the financing money would have to be diverted 10 from its present concerns. 11 692 In my opinion, if there is to be a 12 new network -- and I know there has to be, there is no 13 doubt about it -- then let it be funded with new 14 government money. But in order for that to happen, I 15 think we as citizens are going to have to speak loud 16 and clear on that issue. 17 693 Another issue that I find too 18 important to ignore is the governance. 19 694 First of all, I don't think that we 20 need any government appointees on the Board. I think 21 there needs to be a total arm's-length relationship 22 between the CBC and the people it covers, including the 23 government and especially the government. No other 24 organization that I can think of is run quite like 25 that. StenoTran 143 1 695 As for the current labour trouble, I 2 think the reason that it is happening -- or I know 3 because I listen to Cross Country Check-up with Rex 4 Murphy, and he stated that the reason for the trouble 5 was that the CBC is no longer sure of exactly what it 6 should be doing; and, again, it is because of this 7 funding issue. I really do think we need, for that 8 reason, to really, truly make our voices heard. 9 696 This cannot continue. The CBC has 10 had a third, a third of its budget cut out. This is 11 not the way to go. We need to support it and we need 12 to write letters and do whatever we can to support the 13 CBC and tell the government that we value it. 14 697 Thank you very much. 15 698 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much 16 for your intervention. 17 699 Now we will go to our next 18 participant. 19 700 M. RHÉAUME: Mme Nicole Germain. 20 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 21 701 Mme NICOLE GERMAIN: Mesdames, 22 messieurs, bonsoir. 23 702 D'abord, au nom de la communauté 24 francophone du sud-ouest de l'Ontario, nous tenons à 25 vous remercier d'avoir pensé à notre région pour les StenoTran 144 1 consultations. Souvent dans le sud-ouest, on nous 2 oublie. Alors, c'est très, très apprécié. Nous vous 3 remercions de nous permettre de donner nos opinions et 4 commentaires concernant la télévision et radio de 5 Radio-Canada. 6 703 Permettez-moi de vous présenter les 7 gens qui m'accompagnent: Carole Gagnon et Micheline 8 Boisvert. Finalement, voici nos opinions et 9 commentaires: un, les compressions de la Société 10 Radio-Canada; deux, la radio de CBEF; trois, la 11 télévision française; quatre, la station FM; et cinq, 12 le Réseau de l'information continue. 13 704 Les compressions à la Société Radio- 14 Canada. Nous regrettons les compressions budgétaires 15 qu'a subies la Société Radio-Canada depuis 1990, tant à 16 la radio et à la télé, française et anglaise. Le 17 personnel doué n'est pas très nombreux. Quand l'un 18 d'entre eux tombe malade et qu'on doit réaménager toute 19 la journée, c'est tout un branlement pour permettre 20 l'horaire prévue. 21 705 Nous avons une grande crainte pour la 22 survie de la station de CBEF parce que CBEF c'est bon 23 en français. Depuis les compressions budgétaires, 24 seulement les communautés des régions de Montréal, de 25 Québec et d'Ottawa peuvent être parrainées par la StenoTran 145 1 Société Radio-Canada et accueillent de grands artistes 2 francophones. Une région comme la nôtre a besoin de 3 l'aide de la Société Radio-Canada afin de nous 4 permettre d'assister, nous aussi, à des grands 5 spectacles et des grands concerts, et ce, gratuitement. 6 706 En l'an 2001, la région célébrait le 7 60e anniversaire de la plus vieille communauté 8 française permanente en Ontario. Le Comité 9 organisateur des fêtes du tricentenaire établira 10 bientôt sa programmation. Nous comptons sur la SRC 11 afin de nous permettre d'offrir de grands concerts dans 12 cet événement extraordinaire. 13 707 La radio de CBEF. Dans l'ensemble, 14 la programmation de CBEF est très satisfaisante. La 15 communauté francophone de la région apprécie les 16 émissions produites localement et apprécie aussi 17 l'engagement des intervenants et des artisans de la 18 radio qui, de plus, est incorporé à nulle part dans la 19 province. Nous en sommes convaincus, nous en sommes 20 fiers. 21 708 À notre radio, nous nous identifions 22 parce qu'elle est ce qu'elle est et qu'elle reflète 23 bien le profil de la communauté, mais il y a de la 24 place à de l'amélioration. Voici quelques suggestions. 25 709 Pour le publique jeunesse: StenoTran 146 1 conscients du taux d'assimilation toujours en 2 croissance, que l'on reprenne la formule de l'émission 3 "Club Sandwich" afin de permettre à notre jeunesse de 4 produire une émission faite par eux et à leur image. 5 Nos adolescents sont créatifs et imaginatifs. Qui 6 d'autres qu'eux pour divertir leurs pairs? On sort 7 cette émission comme une étape de l'emploi dans le 8 domaine de la radiophonie. 9 710 Nous sommes conscients aussi que ce 10 n'est pas le CRTC qui assurera le suivi à cette requête 11 mais bien la Société Radio-Canada et au gouvernement 12 qui devrait injecté de nouveaux argents à ce genre de 13 programmation. Et pourquoi pas ne penser à la 14 programmation pour des plus jeunes? 15 711 La Société Radio-Canada a le mandat 16 d'informer et de divertir mais aussi de permettre à sa 17 collectivité de grandir et de se développer, surtout en 18 milieu minoritaire. Nos jeunes doivent pouvoir parler 19 et travailler tout en s'amusant en français, à 20 l'extérieur des murs de la salle de classe, et ce, dans 21 son milieu. La Société Radio-Canada peut jouer un très 22 grand rôle à ce niveau. 23 712 Le public adulte: qu'il y ait plus 24 d'émissions pour les goûts, et ce, en tout temps ou à 25 une heure déterminée -- je donne des exemples d'heures StenoTran 147 1 précises et différents choix de musique -- ce qui 2 permettrait à l'auditeur d'être à l'écoute au moment où 3 il a intérêt à ce genre de musique au lieu de fermer 4 l'appareil complètement parce qu'il n'aime pas le début 5 de l'émission. 6 713 Les émissions d'information locale 7 sont très appropriées et nous croyons que la communauté 8 en est plus que satisfaite. Nous réalisons les grands 9 efforts qui sont faits pour la couverture des 10 événements d'intérêt général malgré le peu de 11 personnel. 12 714 Durant les fins de semaine, le 13 bulletin de nouvelles locales est à midi le samedi. 14 C'est le dernier de la fin de semaine. La communauté 15 francophone continue de respirer durant la fin de 16 semaine et souhaiterait être au courant de ce qui se 17 passe dans sa communauté toute la fin de semaine 18 durant. 19 715 Le "Midi-Magazine" devrait être 20 allongé d'une demi-heure. Cette émission agrémente le 21 repos du midi. Les sujets intéressants y sont traités 22 avec des gens de chez nous par une animatrice de chez 23 nous et le choix musical est approprié et divertissant. 24 716 Bravo à l'émission "Ontario 30" qui 25 reflète bien les intérêts de la communauté franco- StenoTran 148 1 ontarienne à l'échelle provinciale. Elle devrait avoir 2 une durée d'une heure afin d'approfondir le ou les 3 dossiers de la journée. Souvent, nous restons sur 4 notre fin. En général, ce que nous demandons c'est 5 plus de temps d'antenne produit au niveau local ou 6 provincial. Pour ce faire, il faut augmenter le budget 7 et le personnel. 8 717 Les sportifs en veulent un peu aussi. 9 Pourquoi ne pas remettre à la radio la soirée du 10 hockey? Comment se fait-il que les émissions spéciales 11 telles que la couverture des élections et du budget 12 sont diffusées pendant des heures d'antenne locale et 13 non pendant les heures de diffusion en provenance du 14 réseau? Serait-ce parce que les auditeurs des régions 15 sont plus fidèles, et par conséquent, la cote d'écoute 16 plus élevée? Nous en sommes convaincus. À notre avis, 17 c'est justement ce qui justifie la requête que nous 18 voulons faire: plus d'heures d'antenne au niveau 19 local. 20 718 À la télévision française: les 21 émissions d'information telles que "Le Point" et "Le 22 Téléjournal" sont très appropriées et nous informent de 23 l'actualité nationale et internationale. La couverture 24 complète du niveau national des élections du référendum 25 au Québec, est-ce indispensable? Nous ne croyons pas StenoTran 149 1 que l'inverse est vrai. Je ne crois pas que l'on 2 présente les élections en Ontario ou au Manitoba... 3 qu'on les présente au Québec pendant toute la soirée. 4 Je pense qu'on devrait produire, faire un grand 5 reportage ou que si on le fait au complet, qu'on le 6 fasse partout au Canada. Nous désirons être tenus au 7 courant de ce qui se passe au Québec, bien sûr, mais 8 une soirée entière dans le contexte d'une élection, je 9 pense que c'est trop. 10 719 Le "Ce Soir" remplit son mandat 11 d'informer la communauté. Cette émission d'information 12 doit être à l'image de la communauté franco-ontarienne. 13 Par conséquent, elle doit couvrir l'information 14 ontarienne et l'intérêt public des franco-ontariens. 15 Souvent, on oublie aussi le sud-ouest. L'information 16 internationale passe avant l'information provinciale et 17 nationale. 18 720 Les bulletins radio et "Le 19 Téléjournal" et plusieurs autres stations couvrent 20 l'international toute la journée. Il serait possible 21 de couvrir l'international à l'émission "Ce Soir" sans 22 pour ceci empêcher la couverture provinciale en 23 ajoutant une demi-heure à cette émission. 24 721 Le "Ce Soir en Couleur" se doit aussi 25 de refléter la communauté franco-ontarienne. Les StenoTran 150 1 sujets sont intéressants et informatifs. Par contre, 2 on apporte souvent des références du Québec. Pourquoi 3 ne pas ajouter les références de l'Ontario français si 4 c'est possible? 5 722 La violence est encore trop présente 6 à la télévision. On doit la rayer complètement des 7 ondes. Les téléromans ne manquent pas. Il y en a pour 8 tous les goûts. 9 723 Les émissions telles "La Facture", 10 "Enjeux", "Lisa", "Les Trois Mousquetaires", "La Vraie 11 Vie" sont très appropriées, intéressantes, 12 informatives, divertisssantes. Elles ont des 13 téléspectateurs assidus. Par contre, ce qui manque ce 14 sont des émissions de variété telles "L'Écuyer" et "La 15 Fureur" pour le public un peu plus rangé. 16 724 On dit que la population est 17 vieillissante et que les aînés représenteront le tiers 18 de la population. Pensons à eux dans la programmation 19 télévisuelle en offrant des émissions qui les touchent: 20 santé, droit, logement, voyage, sports, divertissement, 21 danse, musique... la journée durant, pas seulement 22 l'avant-midi. 23 725 Ce qui manque aussi pour le public en 24 général ce sont des émissions touchant l'individu, des 25 relations humaines genre talk-show où le public est StenoTran 151 1 invité à partager avec l'appui d'un professionnel sur 2 un sujet donné. 3 726 La station FM: encore une fois de 4 plus, la région du sud-ouest de l'Ontario n'est pas de 5 la partie. La station FM de langue française n'est 6 diffusée qu'au Québec, au Nouveau-Brunswick et dans les 7 régions d'Ottawa et de Toronto seulement. La province 8 ne serait pas Toronto. C'est inacceptable. La région 9 du sud-ouest veut être desservie comme toutes les 10 autres régions. Nous ne voulons pas être les éternels 11 derniers. Nous aussi nous voulons développer nos goûts 12 et prendre plaisir à tout ce qui existe, côté culture. 13 727 Le Réseau de l'information continue, 14 le RDI: la bête noire pour nous. Pas moyen de la 15 mettre en cage. La réception de RDI doit être 16 disponible d'est à ouest au Canada, sans exception. 17 Dans ce dossier, le CRTC a un grand rôle à jouer. Il 18 est inacceptable que la diffusion du RDI soit laissée à 19 la discrétion du cablôdistributeur et serve à une 20 région donnée. 21 728 Dans une région comme la nôtre où la 22 population francophone se chiffre à plus de 35 000, 23 dont un nombre important provenant d'ailleurs, et pour 24 eux, le RDI est le seul moyen d'avoir des nouvelles de 25 leur pays d'origine et de leur famille. À ce nombre StenoTran 152 1 s'ajoute un grand nombre de francophiles. Nous sommes 2 la plus grande communauté au Canada à ne pas recevoir 3 le service. 4 729 La communauté francophone de la 5 région a été plus que patiente dans le dossier et il 6 est grand temps de passer à l'action. Nous demandons 7 donc au CRTC que le CRTC prenne les moyens nécessaires 8 afin d'assurer la télédiffusion du RDI dans notre 9 région. De plus, que ça ne se fasse pas sur le dos de 10 d'autres canaux de langue française. 11 730 Le CRTC doit obliger le 12 cablôdistributeur de la région, Cogeco, à rendre 13 disponsible la réception du RDI, et ce, dans les plus 14 brefs délais. 15 731 Nous laissons à nos concitoyens de 16 langue anglaise d'apporter les points de vue concernant 17 la programmation anglaise à la Société Radio-Canada. 18 732 La Société Radio-Canada étant une 19 société d'état doit assurer un contenu canadien et a le 20 mandat de desservir la population canadienne avant 21 tout. La câblodistribution a ouvert les portes de nos 22 foyers à toute une série d'émissions provenant 23 d'ailleurs. Chez nous, nous sommes inondés d'émissions 24 et de réseaux américains. 25 733 Il est primordial, vital, pour StenoTran 153 1 l'ensemble des Canadiens et pour la communauté 2 francophone de la région que la SRC reste une société 3 d'état, radio et télévision française et anglaise avec 4 un contenu canadien. La Société Radio-Canada est 5 unique. C'est à notre avis la seule façon de nous 6 reconnaître et d'entendre parler de nous. 7 734 Privatiser la Radio-Canada est 8 inacceptable. Que notre gouvernement y ait pensé 9 seulement c'est un message à son désengagement au 10 développement de toutes les communautés du pays. À 11 notre avis, le gouvernement doit réinvestir dans la 12 Société Radio-Canada et non la privatiser. 13 735 Le document que je vous remets à la 14 fin de ma présentation est publique. Si ça peut vous 15 être utile lors de vos démarches et auprès d'aussi la 16 Société Radio-Canada, il sera disponible. Soyez 17 assurés de notre collaboration. Merci pour les suivis. 18 736 En terminant, au nom de la communauté 19 francophone de la région, nous vous remercions de nous 20 avoir donné l'occasion de faire cette présentation. 21 Nous vous remercions. Mesdames, messieurs, merci. 22 737 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Merci, Madame 23 Germain. En effet, si vous voulez laisser une copie de 24 votre présentation, mais il faut dire aussi que tout ce 25 qui se passe ici est déjà public. Mais merci beaucoup StenoTran 154 1 pour avoir amené une copie et merci pour vos 2 commentaires. 3 738 Notre prochain invité. 4 739 MR. RHÉAUME: Our next presenter, 5 Mr. David Shragge. 6 740 Then we go to Mr. Dean La Bute. 7 741 Sarah Trusty. 8 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 9 742 MS TRUSTY: Good evening. I would 10 like to begin by thanking the CRTC for the opportunity 11 to speak this evening on the Canadian Broadcasting 12 Corporation. 13 743 My name is Sarah Trusty and this is 14 Arlene Traynor. We feel that overall the CBC is doing 15 an admirable job at providing Canadians with quality 16 programming that entertains, informs and promotes 17 Canadian culture. 18 744 However, we would like to present to 19 you some concerns we have with how adequately the CBC 20 is fulfilling its mandate and how accessible it makes 21 itself to the Canadian public as a whole. 22 745 For the purposes of our discussion, 23 we will limit our recommendations to CBC English 24 television, as we feel this is an area of the CBC that 25 needs much attention. StenoTran 155 1 746 I will now turn the discussion over 2 to Arlene, who will address our concerns with how 3 adequately the CBC is filling certain areas of its 4 mandate. 5 747 MS TRAYNOR: Thank you. 6 748 The CBC's Mission Statement of 7 1996-97 states that their services are: 8 "...to inform, enlighten and 9 entertain, to help the citizens 10 take part in the country's 11 life." (As read) 12 749 We feel that the CBC is not 13 fulfilling this mandate of serving the Canadian public 14 as a whole. One particular area of concern is youth 15 programming, ages approximately 12 to 25. Children and 16 youth are the next generation of viewers and the lack 17 of programming provided for them on the CBC forces 18 Canadian youth to turn to American television. Then we 19 have created a generation with no sense of their own 20 culture. 21 750 Page 18 of the 1994 CRTC decision on 22 the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation stated that there 23 was a concern with the lack of programming for 24 pre-teens and teenage children. It is our feeling that 25 the CBC has yet to adequately fix this gap in their StenoTran 156 1 programming. 2 751 Another audience that they are not 3 reaching is the working class. We feel that there is a 4 lot of business shows. There is also a serious lack of 5 multicultural programming. What about the Asian 6 population or even the Italian population. We need 7 Canadian shows for ethnics done by ethnic Canadians for 8 ethnic Canadians. 9 752 There have been vast improvements in 10 the representation of ethnic groups in some areas such 11 as journalists and program hosts. However, programs 12 which are targeted at ethnic groups within Canada's 13 population are still lacking and as the CBC's mandate 14 is to enlighten and entertain all Canadians. They are 15 not fulfilling their mandate in this area. 16 753 The programming which the CBC does 17 provide is of high quality and should definitely be 18 continued, but the problem is this programming is not 19 of interest to all segments of the Canadian public. 20 The CBC has made great improvements in reducing the 21 amount of foreign programming and providing quality 22 Canadian programming instead. However, there is still 23 some needless foreign programming which is taking up 24 space that could be devoted to Canadian programs that 25 target these under-represented groups. StenoTran 157 1 754 Certainly cost is always a concern 2 for the CBC, but their 1996-97 report discusses the 3 importance of what they spend their money on. How can 4 Canada's broadcaster justify spending money on foreign 5 content when their Canadian programming does not meet 6 the needs of all Canadians. If production costs are 7 too high, consider rebroadcasting older Canadian 8 programs which may meet some of these unsatisfied 9 needs. 10 755 There is no need for foreign 11 programming on the CBC when they are still not meeting 12 the needs of all Canadians with their own programming. 13 That time should be devoted to these under-represented 14 groups. 15 756 Sarah. 16 757 MS TRUSTY: Thank you. 17 758 I'm just going to continue by 18 addressing some concerns we have with the accessibility 19 of the CBC. 20 759 In 1994, the CRTC decision on the 21 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation encouraged less 22 dependence on advertising. Certainly, we think this is 23 a good aim. What we propose is not more dependence on 24 advertising from outside source, but more of a focus on 25 the CBC's practices and marketing themselves. StenoTran 158 1 760 Once again, we realize that cost is 2 always a big factor for the CBC, but the reality is 3 that not enough Canadians are tuning into the CBC. We 4 are all aware that the majority of Canadians watch far 5 more American programming than Canadian programming. 6 We believe that this due in part to the lack of diverse 7 programming as we previously mentioned, but at the same 8 time the CBC has much programming that would appeal to 9 a wide audience of Canadians if they were only made 10 more aware of it. 11 761 When advertising is done on the CBC, 12 the only people who see this advertising are those who 13 already watch it and therefore a new audience can't be 14 generated. 15 762 What we propose is a type of 16 advertising campaign that reaches all Canadians and let 17 them know that the CBC has programs worth watching. 18 Advertising in national newspapers is good, but it's 19 not enough because this does not reach many segments of 20 the population. We consider advertising on public 21 transportation and non-stream publications, on 22 billboards, on radio stations other than the CBC, such 23 as even campus radio which would be a cheap alternative 24 and you would reach, like, an unrepresented audience I 25 think. StenoTran 159 1 763 The CBC has taken steps to stay 2 contemporary and in touch with the public, such as 3 through their Web Site, their very impressive and very 4 informative Web Site, but again this only reaches a 5 very small segment of the population as a very limited 6 number of Canadians have Internet access. 7 764 We feel that advertising needs to be 8 done where all Canadians will have access to it. The 9 CBC needs to inform Canadians that they have 10 programming that represents them and is worth watching. 11 765 If the CBC can become a service that 12 truly services the majority of the Canadian public, 13 then the government may look at it as a more worthy 14 cause. Of course, cost does make this not an immediate 15 course of action, but we propose that something such as 16 this is a crucial long-term goal in order for the CBC 17 to stay viable and of use to all Canadians. 18 766 They truly need to make themselves 19 accessible and become a voice for every Canadian. 20 Consider even alternatives such as CBC representatives 21 in every city who will be available and known to 22 everyone to take suggestions, talk to people about what 23 they like and don't like about the CBC's programs. 24 Something such as this that would be available all the 25 time in order to be constantly meeting Canada's StenoTran 160 1 broadcasting needs. 2 767 Again, if cost is an issue, which I'm 3 sure it is, there are many talented and able people who 4 would love to volunteer their time to assist in 5 bettering the CBC and help it provide programming which 6 entertains, enlightens and promotes the culture of 7 every Canadians. 8 768 The CBC is supposed to be a 9 broadcaster that provides unique programming for 10 Canada's entire population. We feel that the 11 programming which it currently provides is of the 12 highest quality. However, in making itself more 13 accessible it could provide quality programming for all 14 of Canada and not just parts of it. 15 769 Thank you very much for taking the 16 time to hear my recommendations. 17 770 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you both 18 very, very much for being here. 19 771 Our next speakers. 20 772 MR. RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is 21 Emile Nakhle and friends, I believe. 22 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 23 773 MS CHANG: Good evening. 24 774 My name is Angie Chang and with me is 25 John Chan and Emil Nakhle. StenoTran 161 1 775 We are simply here this evening to 2 voice our concerns about the balance of children's 3 programming on the CBC. 4 776 The majority of shows are targeted to 5 preschool children during morning schedules. At this 6 time, most children are at school or day care and are 7 therefore unable to view quality Canadian programming. 8 Consequently, there is an insufficient number of 9 children's programming in the afternoon hours of the 10 day. Thus, children at school should have the 11 opportunity to watch some of the morning show schedules 12 once they return home. 13 777 However, we are aware that the CRTC 14 has recognized that the CBC should have more Canadian 15 programming geared to the youngsters of Canada. 16 Nevertheless, we feel the CBC has not fulfilled these 17 significant needs. 18 778 MR. CHAN: In the past few weeks we 19 have been watching the CBC and we have noticed that the 20 morning line up that's dedicated towards most children 21 are mainly towards preschoolers between the hours of 22 8:00 and 12:00. 23 779 We are aware that elementary schools 24 start at nine o'clock and in order for children to 25 arrive at school on time, they would have to leave the StenoTran 162 1 house at approximately 8:30 leaving them only with just 2 the one show to watch and that show, consequently, 3 happens to be a show produced by the BBC and not of 4 Canada. 5 780 Another thing. Even though these 6 shows are aimed mainly at preschool children, most 7 preschool children are either at day care or somewhere 8 else being taken care of because of their family 9 working situation. 10 781 We have also noticed that the daily 11 schedule is not consistent. On Thursdays and Fridays 12 at certain times, the shows differ than on Mondays, 13 Tuesdays and Wednesdays. We feel that children may 14 have a hard time keeping up with when shows are because 15 most kids keep to a schedule of what shows are on on a 16 daily basis. 17 782 We also feel, though, that these 18 shows are mainly towards the preschools. There are not 19 shows mainly for the children between the ages of five 20 and 12. There is, however, one show that we found that 21 seems to be aimed towards them. However, it is on at 22 11:30 when children are still at school. 23 783 In addition to that, we also noticed 24 that the shows of the CBC correspond with other shows 25 of local stations that any TV with or without cable can StenoTran 163 1 pick up. The shows are actually the same shows and 2 they are on roughly at the same time. The CBC has 3 stated that they would like to try to do something 4 different from the schedules of other programs. 5 784 What else? As far as the after 6 school schedule, we have noticed that in the hours 7 between 3:30 to five o'clock there is a cooking show 8 and a show called Road to Avonlea, which is more of a 9 family and could be put on at a later hour. We could 10 probably use more shows aimed at children at that hour, 11 as Emil will state. 12 785 MR. NAKHLE: Thanks, Johnny. 13 786 Basically, what I have to say is 14 basically feeding off of my other two partners. 15 787 What we feel is there is still an 16 absence of quality Canadian programming in the 17 after-school periods of the day. We feel that the 18 children of this country need to be more aware of what 19 it is to be Canadian. 20 788 I know for a fact there is a U.S. 21 show called Animated Hero Classics. What this show is 22 is a cartoon animation of history of the world, but 23 basically it focuses on American history. If there was 24 a Canadian show or animation such as this, it would 25 make more aware the children of this country of what it StenoTran 164 1 is to have lived in Canada, to know what it is to be 2 Canadian. 3 789 As Johnny said about the 4 inconsistency of the children's schedule, I know for a 5 firsthand fact that my baby cousin, she is used to a 6 certain television schedule. She does not understand 7 what time it is exactly, but what she does know is that 8 a certain show is on at this particular time. If she 9 doesn't see the show she has a fit and gets confused a 10 bit. 11 --- Laughter / Rires 12 790 MR. NAKHLE: And it's, like, hard to 13 explain to here why it's not on. 14 --- Laughter / Rires 15 791 MR. NAKHLE: Also, as Johnny said, in 16 reference to being at school and not being able to 17 watch some television programming, I do recall as a 18 child the television animated show Raccoons. I watched 19 that as a child and I was quite amused by it, but as 20 school started I was unable to watch it and I did 21 distinctively recognize it as a Canadian show with 22 Canadian content. 23 792 Thank you very much. 24 793 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 25 much, all three of you, for your presentation. StenoTran 165 1 794 Next. 2 795 MR. RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is 3 Dr. Alfie Morgan. No? 4 796 Then we go to Mr. Paul Rousseau. 5 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 6 797 MR. ROUSSEAU: First of all, I would 7 like to thank the CRTC for the opportunity to share my 8 thoughts tonight. 9 798 I want to focus my comments tonight 10 on CBC radio, specifically on CBC Radio One, which in 11 this area is known as CBE 1550. 12 799 There is an old saying in 13 Windsor-Essex that Canada stops in Chatham-Kent, which 14 is about 80 kilometres east of here, which essentially 15 is the geographical point where U.S. radio 16 transmissions from southeast Michigan begin to fade. 17 Southeast Michigan has perhaps the largest number of 18 radio stations in any U.S. urban centre and a majority 19 of Windsor-Essex citizens listen to these stations. 20 800 Beyond that point of Chatham-Kent, 21 Canada-based media has a much larger influence. 22 Ironically, even though there are radio stations 23 geographically located in Windsor, like CIDR and CIMX, 24 they come across as if they are Michigan-based. Most 25 of their advertisement sales are from southeast StenoTran 166 1 Michigan and the announcers on these stations seldom 2 refer to their listeners on this side here in Canada. 3 801 Fortunately, these stations 4 broadcasting from Canadian soil must follow Canadian 5 content and we, on this side of the border, do get a 6 chance to find Canadian talent on these Windsor 7 stations. 8 802 Interestingly, Michigan-based 9 stations quite often play these Canadian songs and, to 10 some degree, the CANCON regulations have helped promote 11 a lot of Canadian talent. 12 803 My focus tonight will be more on the 13 radio as a source of information and Canadian points of 14 view than on radio as a source of music. 15 804 For much of my early morning and 16 early evening I am tuned to 1550, our own CBC Radio One 17 station. This is where I get my Canadian news. This 18 is when I feel Canadian. I seldom watch television and 19 rely on CBC Radio One to get informed. 20 805 Of course I could listen to CKWW, 21 which is also on the AM band if I could stomach the 22 commercials and the shallow and sometimes idiotic 23 quality of their shows. 24 806 While I groan at times listening to 25 certain things that our local CBC folks say on the air, StenoTran 167 1 the benefits of tuning my dial to 1550 are very clear 2 to me. A day started without CBC radio just doesn't 3 quite go as well as it could. 4 807 Over the past few years I have 5 noticed a gradual deterioration due to massive funding 6 cuts of what I believe to be the best radio network in 7 the world. 8 808 I recall eagerly waking up on Sunday 9 morning to listen to the show Sunday Morning, which was 10 loped about a year ago. I can still hear those 11 wonderful weekly meetings hosted by Peter Gzowski 12 involving Stephen Lewis and others talking about 13 Canadian issues with passion. This no longer seems to 14 happen. 15 809 Not sounding like somebody wanting to 16 bring back the old, old times, I can't help but wonder 17 if the magic of CBC in the recent past has vanished 18 because of these cutbacks. We still have a lot of 19 radio talent and given sufficient resources these 20 resources can shine in the greatness of CBC's past and 21 even more. 22 810 Without the support, without the 23 resources, our current generation of CBC Radio One 24 people can never rise to their full potential. And we 25 are taking the risk of losing even more of our StenoTran 168 1 remaining talent if our Liberal government and the CBC 2 management does not begin to invest more money into the 3 CBC. 4 811 I hate to be cynical, but I know from 5 my own experience as an educator that without a base 6 level of support, without resources, without supplies 7 and expectations of some form of tenure and a certain 8 future I would not be able to do my best job. This 9 leaves me vulnerable to my critics who will point 10 fingers and say: Those teachers are just not doing a 11 good job. 12 812 Is this the plan of CBC, to strangle 13 the operation until it looks so bad that even the 14 shallow, market-driven commercial radio stations begin 15 to look good? 16 813 I don't believe this attack on CBC is 17 one case. It seems like public radio is under attack 18 everywhere. 19 814 For example, the CBC's U.S. 20 counterpart of sorts, NPR, continues to be under 21 attack. 22 815 On Monday of this week the NPR 23 reported that, and this is a quote: 24 "Some government officials 25 believe that the funding StenoTran 169 1 currently going to those 2 programs is too large a portion 3 of the funding for something 4 which is seen as not 5 worthwhile." (As read) 6 816 A few years ago, NPR was forced to 7 find "sponsors", and while there are no commercials yet 8 on NPR, the much repeated "This program is made 9 possible by..." a corporation and then a short little 10 statement about that corporation sounds very much like 11 a commercial to me. I wonder if this is the next step 12 of the "vision" of the CBC Board of Directors. 13 817 I came to Canada in 1969 from the 14 United States to begin my university education. One of 15 the things I immediately loved about this country was 16 the CBC. Until that time for me, radio was mostly 17 music, commercials and so on. CBC radio on the other 18 hand offered an alternative. CBC combined with NPR 19 broadcasting from Detroit provided me a useful resource 20 for information as I studied at the University of 21 Windsor. 22 818 Thirty years later I continue to live 23 in Canada and continue to listen to CBC. This helps me 24 define myself as a Canadian. Listening to CBC reminds 25 me of how this, the second largest country in the StenoTran 170 1 world, is really quite small after all. I'm told 2 stories from people who are living in small towns, in 3 coastal outposts and in urban centres both far and 4 near. I am reminded of just how great this country is 5 and I can listen to this without having to contend with 6 the advertisements. 7 819 CBC radio is a refuge for those like 8 myself who want to reflect on our achievements, our 9 failures and our potential as a country, and with those 10 who are seeking relief from the all might corporate 11 agenda that only sees me as a potential buyer of their 12 goods and services. 13 820 To grow, CBC must buy into the 14 philosophy of continuous improvement. The hearts and 15 minds of young people must be attracted to form its 16 future audience. Teachers must see the CBC as a 17 resource in our schools and in our colleges. CBC needs 18 to continue to feature our local experts, our 19 commentators, our political leaders, and add working 20 people, youth, new Canadians, and other citizens in 21 their shows. 22 821 We must use the CBC in new and 23 creative ways to keep ordinary Canadians in touch with 24 each other. 25 822 Instead of having hearings to make StenoTran 171 1 decisions on whether or not the CBC should exist, like 2 the one we are having tonight, we really should be 3 sponsoring idea sessions all over Canada on how to make 4 the CBC even better and stronger than it is today. 5 823 CBC must be broadcast all over the 6 world, through shortwave and through the Internet, so 7 the world will know us and see how great we really are. 8 We cannot leave the future of the CBC up to the 9 commercial people. To commercial broadcasters, 10 programming is only a means to generate money. 11 824 CBC programming may not have much 12 commercial value, then again, neither do raising 13 children, preparing our future leaders, studying the 14 arts and taking care of our ecosystems. Life is not 15 only about finances. CBC can be all that is truly and 16 deeply valued in Canada. The rest of the world knows 17 how great things are going on in this country. 18 Hopefully, those who hold the future of the CBC notice 19 as well. 20 825 Thank you. 21 826 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 22 much, Mr. Rousseau. 23 827 We will continue with our next 24 participant. 25 828 MR. RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is StenoTran 172 1 Mr. Peter Wilkinson. 2 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 3 829 MR. WILKINSON: Good evening. (Off 4 microphone/sans microphone...). 5 830 I want to point out that 6 Kathy McCrone appears with me in this segment. 7 831 Before I actually begin, I would like 8 to say that I'm pleased to find that what I'm about to 9 say echoes many of the things that I have heard from 10 the colleagues to my left. 11 832 Recently, I watched an interview with 12 John Taviner(ph). He, some of you may remember, is the 13 composer of the music which was sung at Westminster 14 Abbey at the conclusion of the funeral of Diana, 15 Princess of Wales as her casket was being carried from 16 the church. 17 833 In the course of the interview, 18 Taviner said that a monk on Mount Athos, reflecting on 19 the present time, has said that all the doors of heaven 20 and hell are now open. 21 834 As surely you are aware, there is a 22 chaotic debate both in word indeed going on upon our 23 planet earth as to what kind of a world we want to live 24 in. Is it to be a world dominated by unbridled 25 nationalism and tribalism, or is it to be a world where StenoTran 173 1 people are recognized first and foremost as human 2 beings? Are we to be programmed totally into a world 3 of free enterprise and consumerism, or are we to live 4 lives enriched by the arts, crafts and participation in 5 sports? 6 835 I feel truly that I have been 7 enriched by the CBC. I appreciate hearing news from 8 other parts of Canada and I want to know that there is 9 a taxpayer-supported broadcasting system operating at 10 arm's length from the government in which the reporters 11 are free to report what they observe without fear of 12 censorship, not to mention worse. 13 836 A program like Windsor's Morning 14 Watch hosted by Paul Vassey gives one a window on the 15 local scene in Windsor. Windsor has an active visual 16 arts community and I believe that they have benefitted 17 from the television radio coverage they have received. 18 Susan Little has been the facilitator for much of this. 19 I do not think that the Windsor Symphony would have had 20 the opportunity to be broadcast nationally if it were 21 not for the CBC. 22 837 Obviously, as had been pointed out 23 already, if our local CBC outlets had better budgets, 24 we could be still better informed of local activities 25 in the real of sports, the arts and crafts. StenoTran 174 1 838 In case my presentation appears 2 on-sided, I would add that I am very well aware of the 3 many enterprising small and not so small manufacturers 4 in Windsor. I would like to see, from time to time, 5 segments on the local news highlighting these important 6 players in our economy. 7 839 If we Canadians are to step in a good 8 direction in the next millennium and not become purely 9 cogs in a so-called global economy, we need 10 organizations which will help us to do that and I 11 believe that the CBC can be an important element in 12 this process. 13 840 Canadian nationalism has rarely ever 14 manifested the blustering patriotism which often 15 characterizes such feelings. Nevertheless, being a 16 Canadian is very important to me. We need to talk 17 about hour heros and heroines from Drs. Banting and 18 Best to the women of Canada's women's hockey team who 19 just one their fifth straight world's championship. We 20 need to take note at what Canadians have achieved. 21 841 Since the end of World War II, many 22 immigrants have come to Canada and I wonder how much 23 attention has been paid to helping them to grow into 24 the way of being a Canadian. 25 842 Last autumn, I was standing on the StenoTran 175 1 driveway of friend's house talking to the next door 2 neighbour, an immigrant, but one who had been in Canada 3 many years and had been a Canadian a long time. In the 4 course of the conversation she said, "Back in my 5 country..." I said, "No, Maria" -- not her right 6 name -- "No, Maria. That is the old country." I 7 pointed to the ground and I said "This is your 8 country"; and her eyes opened as if this fact had 9 really registered for the first time. "You're right", 10 she said. 11 843 I was talking to a man who had come 12 to borrow wine-making equipment from a fellow Canadian 13 citizen of Italian ancestry. He said to me, in the 14 process of our conversation, "I love my Italian 15 tradition of wine making, but we must all do our best 16 to make Canada a great country." 17 844 I do not want to see the CBC 18 sacrificed to the private broadcasters. I do not want 19 to see them sacrificed to the private broadcasters so 20 the private broadcasters can further feather their own 21 nests which so often seems to be their primary 22 motivation. 23 845 I conclude my remarks by saying that 24 I believe that there are people in the Canadian 25 Broadcasting Corporation who are prepared to take on StenoTran 176 1 the kind of tasks I have spoken of and, moreover, have 2 the moral fibre necessary in order to do something 3 which has the quality of nobility. 4 846 MS McCRONE: I'm Kathleen McCrone and 5 I would like to thank the CRTC for holding hearings in 6 Windsor in an area that is in a unique need of the 7 radio and television services of the CBC. 8 847 To begin simply and directly. I love 9 the CBC and immensely proud of it. 10 848 I grew up with the CBC in 11 Saskatchewan in the 1940s and 1950s. I spent five 12 years in the United States in the 1960s going to 13 graduate school and was deprived of the benefits of 14 public broadcasting during that period and I can recall 15 in the wee hours of the morning on my radio 16 occasionally picking up a voice that "Ici Radio-Canada" 17 from Montreal and the buzz that gave me. 18 849 Radio One and Two are the only 19 stations to which I listen. When I'm travelling, the 20 first thing I do is locate the CBC on the radio, in the 21 hotel in which I'm staying and on the television as 22 well. It's extremely reassuring to be able to listen 23 to the World at Six, As It Happens, Cross Country 24 Check-up or Choral Concert whether one is in Regina, in 25 Windsor, in Halifax or Vancouver, or to watch the news StenoTran 177 1 broadcast by Peter Mansbridge. It gives one a real 2 sense of being part of our larger Canadian community 3 with all its magnificent diversity and richness. 4 850 It appears that the CBC may be like 5 so many Canadian gems, under appreciated at home. 6 851 My niece, who has a degree from the 7 highly regarded communications studies program at the 8 University of Washington and is herself an American 9 told me that her professors at the University of 10 Washington held up the CBC as the model public 11 broadcaster exemplifying the highest standards and 12 achievements. 13 852 I believe profoundly in the 14 importance of a national public broadcaster operating 15 at arm's length from the government and would note the 16 importance of public broadcasters in all the major 17 western countries, except the United States; a negative 18 distinction, second only perhaps to the United States' 19 lack of a national system of health insurance. 20 853 A national public broadcaster is 21 needed especially badly, since few if any other 22 countries live next door to a giant whose influence, 23 power and self-interest are so overwhelming. 24 854 I'm reminded of the perhaps not so 25 funny joke: What do Canadians have in common? The StenoTran 178 1 answer is: Watching Detroit cable TV, in the Yukon, in 2 Nova Scotia, in Saskatchewan and so on. 3 855 I consider the CBC vital to the 4 national interest. There are many different opinions 5 about what the national interest actually is, but it is 6 very clear that it is not the bottom-line profits of 7 private broadcasters and their shareholders' interests 8 and perspectives. 9 856 A public broadcaster provides a sense 10 of conscience in journalism, unadulterated by business 11 concerns. It does, I believe, promote genuine freedom 12 of expression. 13 857 The CBC, our public broadcaster, 14 gives a distinctly Canadian perspective to our news. 15 It tells us about ourselves and "ourselves" means our 16 Quebec selves, our Newfoundland selves, our northern 17 selves, our British Columbian selves, our Saskatchewan 18 selves, and what have you. All of these I think make 19 up what it means to be a Canadian. 20 858 The CBC teaches us, as I say, about 21 Canadians in various parts of the country. It pitches 22 to a high rather than a low common denominator. It 23 promotes Canadian talent and culture and gives Canadian 24 talent an outlet. Through radio programs such as 25 Ideas, to name only one of many, it has an elevating StenoTran 179 1 educating influence. It's hard to imagine a program 2 like Ideas being broadcast on a private radio station. 3 859 Now, in this particular part of the 4 country where the immediacy of the American presence is 5 so obvious, the CBC is absolutely vital. 6 860 When I moved here in 1968, there was 7 no CBC television station, which surprised me 8 tremendously. It was the cause of much celebration 9 when we got such a station in this area and a cause of 10 huge consternation when, to save money, the CBC shut 11 down the local television station in the early 1990s. 12 The only time I have ever joined a public demonstration 13 was in the undermath of that unconscionable move and my 14 friend to my right here remembers that day very well. 15 861 Fortunately, the closure was only 16 temporary, but the form in which the CBC TV was 17 restored here was unfortunately diminished in that 18 there has been virtually no local creative production 19 since that restoration apart from the local news. 20 862 Now, the question comes up 21 frequently: Does the CBC have a local and regional 22 role? I think the answer to that is definitely yes. 23 863 The connection -- let me interrupt 24 myself here. 25 864 Its local and regional issues with StenoTran 180 1 which people in particular localities connect first, 2 just like with local government -- if your garbage is 3 picked up you notice that more than you notice what the 4 federal government is doing in terms of particular 5 initiatives, but this local broadcasting can translate 6 in communicating the localities in Canada to the rest 7 of our nation. 8 865 Local and regional broadcasts provide 9 creative outlets for local talent that hasn't yet 10 necessarily made its mark nationally but can through, 11 as my friend on my left said, for example, broadcasts 12 of the Windsor Symphony across the country. The CBC is 13 not fulfilling its mandate if the messages it 14 communicates to the country are obviously Toronto and 15 Montreal focused. 16 866 I was horrified by the 17 disproportionate budget cuts that have been visited 18 upon the CBC in recent years and the antagonistic 19 attitude taken toward it by the current government and 20 Prime Minister. I was shocked by the proposal last 21 year that would have enabled the government to dismiss 22 the President of the CBC and the Board of Directors at 23 will. 24 867 I'm appalled now by the proposal of 25 some CBC board members that radio and TV news should be StenoTran 181 1 centralized under the control of a single 2 vice-president based in Ottawa, thus placing it under 3 the direct gaze of the government. 4 868 Morning Watch, Morningside, As It 5 Happens, Sunday Morning, Cross Country Check-up, Ideas, 6 the Royal Canadian Air Farce, Quirks and Quarks, Dead 7 Dog Cafe, the Max Ferguson Show, Clive Gilmour, Ideas, 8 Writers and Company, Choral Concert and the plethora of 9 wonderful music programs on Radio Two. These all do us 10 immensely proud, as on television do: The National 11 news; The National Magazine; The Fifth Estate; Witness; 12 Biography; Hockey Night in Canada; special shows such 13 as The Boys of St. Vincent, The Dions; broadcasts of 14 the Cabot 500th anniversary celebrations, of the 15 British withdrawal from Hong Kong, the death and 16 funeral of the Princess of Wales, the funeral more 17 recently of King Hussein of Jordan; tremendous comedy 18 programs on the CBC; and the magnificent coverage that 19 is provided to us all every November the 11th in the 20 broadcasts from the cenotaph in Ottawa which remind us 21 of our history and of the tremendous debt we owe to 22 those who sacrificed their lives for this company in 23 the first and second world wars and in peacekeeping 24 missions through the United Nations. 25 869 Never did I feel prouder of the CBC StenoTran 182 1 and prouder to be a Canadian during the CBC broadcasts 2 of the 50th anniversary of D-Day and of VE-Day. 3 870 These all represented public 4 broadcasting at their best and it's impossible for me 5 to imagine that a standard of quality like this could 6 have been achieved by private broadcasters, or if they 7 would have even been that interested. 8 871 The CBC is one of the gems in our 9 national treasure trove. Of course it could improve 10 and do things differently, but given the hits it has 11 taken I think it has coped and adjusted remarkably 12 well. 13 872 It takes a very long time to create a 14 service as good as that provided by the CBC, both radio 15 and television, and alas it takes a very short time to 16 destroy something of this quality. 17 873 I urge the CRTC respectfully to help 18 to protect the independence of the CBC to assure that 19 the CBC is given the resources which will enable it 20 once again to thrive to adjust to the ever-changing 21 tapestry which characterizes this most blessed of 22 countries and thereby to defend and advance the public 23 interest. 24 874 A healthy, clearly Canadian CBC is 25 more important than ever as we enter an era of StenoTran 183 1 unprecedented globalization. 2 875 Thank you very much. 3 876 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 4 much, Mr. Wilkinson, Ms McCrone. 5 877 Our next speaker. 6 878 MR. RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is 7 Mr. Howard Pawley. 8 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 9 879 MR. PAWLEY: I don't know whether 10 there is more to be said after the very fine 11 presentations that we have had this evening, but I 12 thank the CRTC for providing us with this opportunity 13 tonight. 14 880 The CBC is a crucial institution. In 15 a time of increasing fragmentation and regionalism, 16 Canada needs such institutions to join communities 17 together. More not less resources should be allocated 18 to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. 19 881 In addition, during an era when 20 powerful media owners such as Ted Rogers, Conrad Black 21 and many others claim to be the trusted protectors of 22 the public interest, a strong CBC is needed to ensure 23 healthy competition so that voices other than the 24 powerful can be heard. 25 882 In Windsor, one of the CBC's main StenoTran 184 1 competitors provides local news coverage and is the 2 Windsor Star, part of a media chain. Perhaps not 3 surprisingly, the Star has editorially argued that the 4 CBC no longer serves any purpose. It claims the time 5 has come to wind down public broadcasting in this 6 country, not expand it further. 7 883 Most of us, however, consider it 8 important for Canada that today's modern media 9 conglomerates should be subject to the competition that 10 a healthy and vibrant local CBC can provide. 11 884 Regional broadcasting is extremely 12 critical. In the early 1990s, as Kate McCrone 13 mentioned, the CBC shut down its regional TV 14 broadcasting in Windsor. The opposition to this was 15 overwhelming. Approximately, 8,000 voiced their 16 determined opposition and joined in a massive rally. 17 Nearly 60,000 residents of the tricounty area signed a 18 petition opposing the loss of their local broadcaster. 19 It should come as no shock that such a distinct 20 reaction was provoked in this region. Windsor and its 21 surrounding area is a Canadian island surrounded by a 22 sea of Americanism. 23 885 Studies, which a number of years ago 24 were presented to the CRTC by the City of Windsor, 25 proved how pervasive was the influence of our powerful StenoTran 185 1 American neighbour to the south and to the north from 2 here, to our culture, to our politics and even sports 3 in this region. 4 886 For instance, these studies show 5 those watching American TV as opposed to those watching 6 CBC are more likely, can you believe it, to prefer the 7 Detroit Tigers to the Blue Jays. And teaching 8 political science at the University of Windsor, I have 9 been repeatedly amazed at how much more local students 10 seem to know about American politics than their own, 11 about the U.S. President rather than the Canadian Prime 12 Minister, for instance. 13 887 Although I realize the influence of 14 our huge neighbour to the south is also strong 15 throughout Canada, it is nonetheless especially so in 16 this region. 17 888 The CBC must serve a central role in 18 preserving and promoting Canada's identity. This can 19 be best fulfilled by ensuring that the regions are 20 properly reflected in its programs. Perhaps there are 21 some in government, within the CBC itself, who would 22 prefer to see the money spent regionally go to the 23 centres. However, such is, in my humble view, contrary 24 to the national interest. 25 889 Getting back to this area once more, StenoTran 186 1 there is unfortunately considerable evidence of this in 2 the current lack of priority given by CBC to this 3 region. Here CBET, for instance, runs its daily news 4 coverage at 5:30, unfortunately too early for many 5 returning from work. Why not schedule local news from 6 6:00 to 6:30 or preferably to seven o'clock? 7 890 Again, the late local news currently 8 runs at 11:30, far too late for most viewers and I 9 suspect most around this table to watch. 10 891 Moreover, sadly on weekends, if you 11 can believe it, there is no coverage whatsoever of a 12 local nature on CBET. The weekend news broadcasts are 13 from Toronto. Despite such built-in inconveniences to 14 the local customers of CBC that station continues to 15 remain to be the most popular local news source for the 16 Lambton, Kent, Essex region. 17 892 Without a doubt, the continuance of 18 local broadcasting is a crucial issue in Windsor. 19 Local residents are disturbed about constant reports 20 that the highest leadership at the CBC, and also yes in 21 the corridors of government are less than fully 22 committed to regional broadcasting. 23 893 Furthermore, it is critical that 24 regional broadcasting is maintained throughout Canada. 25 It's elimination would jeopardize how Canadians relate StenoTran 187 1 to each other. To reduce regional broadcasting, the 2 inevitable consequence would be in the concentration of 3 the CBC resources in the national centres, the major 4 centres. Of course in Ontario that means Toronto. But 5 Toronto is not Ontario, nor is it Canada. 6 894 Another concern felt by many and 7 referred to this evening is the increasing tendency by 8 the government to extend political control over CBC. 9 This is done by the appointments of the President and 10 Directors to the Board of CBC. Other steps appear to 11 be in the making, as had been mentioned this evening, 12 to further tighten this control. 13 895 The appointment of a CBC president as 14 well as that of its board of directors should be the 15 responsibility of multiparty committee of the House of 16 Commons. This is most essential with a public 17 broadcaster such as the CBC, for it will naturally step 18 on the toes of politicians from all parties from time 19 to time. 20 896 Recently, we have all observed what 21 appears to be the hypersensitivity, at least in my 22 view, on the part of the Prime Minister in the 23 well-publicized Milewski affair. CBC should be 24 encouraged to do more not less in depth public affairs 25 analysis. TV broadcasting by CBC has, in recent years, StenoTran 188 1 done too little of this. I think Ontario TV is doing 2 perhaps a better job at the moment in this regard. 3 897 In addition, the CBC's role is a 4 positive one for working journalists. Indeed, those 5 columnists who are the cheerleaders for various schemes 6 to privatize the CBC I suggest suffer from tunnel 7 vision. Without the CBC, the standard of Canadian 8 journalism would be reduced. Too few news outlets 9 disseminate news now. Frequently, it is too 10 homogenized and frequently suffers from a "good feel 11 and an inoffensive manner". 12 898 Historically, the CBC has been the 13 most significant outlet that is prepared to explore and 14 delve into public issues. Investigative reporting on 15 the Somalia affair, the Airborne Regiment, the recent 16 matters pertaining to APEC and the students in 17 Vancouver readily come to mind. In addition, the CBC 18 has run superb pieces on the future of the Canadian 19 health system. 20 899 The CBC should be applauded for its 21 sponsorship of town hall meetings which include 22 politicians representing various parties. I recognize 23 the Prime Minister may not have forgiven the CBC for 24 one such meeting. Nevertheless, such programs are a 25 substantial public service and the CBC should be StenoTran 189 1 encouraged to continue them. 2 900 Regrettably, I have no confidence in 3 the private sector's willingness to do this in a manner 4 that will truly reflect the diversity of the public 5 interest. 6 901 Programs such as Witness, Prime Time 7 News, the Nature of Things, Market Place, As it 8 Happens, Royal Canadian Air Farce, Fifth Estate, among 9 others stand out as excellent productions. However, 10 CBC could do a better job of acquainting Canadians, I 11 suggest, with the nation's history. This is especially 12 important now with the inexplicable withdrawal of 13 Canadian history from so many educational curriculums. 14 902 Moreover, while there is an excellent 15 business coverage, as was mentioned earlier this 16 evening, on Newsworld, not much attention is given to 17 labour news, working class news. Repeatedly, I have 18 noticed too many economic analysis that have been 19 debated by panellists from either a financial or a 20 banking viewpoint as though their word represented the 21 gospel. Making this point, I quarrel not with their 22 participation but with the repeated lack of diversity 23 that sometimes occurs on Newsworld panels that 24 especially deal with economic matters. 25 903 In conclusion, contrary to the StenoTran 190 1 reasoning of those that advocate a minor role, a more 2 limited role, an irrefutable argument exists for a 3 stronger public broadcasting system in Canada. It is 4 imperative at both the national and at the regional 5 level. With the expanding regional cleavages that we 6 see throughout this country, with the Quebec issue, 7 with the ascendancy of the United States and with 8 globalization increasingly becoming ever and ever a 9 greater part of our lives, the urgency is greater now 10 than ever for wholehearted support for Canadian public 11 broadcasting. 12 904 I urge the CRTC to urge the 13 government to give the kind of support and endorsation 14 that the CBC requires in order that Canadians will be 15 even better served than they are at the present time 16 through the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. 17 905 I would like to thank the CRTC for 18 giving us this opportunity to provide input on a matter 19 of such crucial national and local importance. 20 906 Thank you. 21 907 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 22 much, Mr. Pawley, and to everyone in our first group. 23 We certainly appreciate your being here. 24 908 As I said, the point is for us to 25 listen to you. So our lack of questions does not StenoTran 191 1 denote a lack of interest. It is an effort on our 2 parts to listen and to hear from everyone. 3 909 We have a group of approximately six 4 people and perhaps some people from our first group 5 have joined us. I'm suggesting that we take a short 6 break of about 10 minutes, it is now 7:15, and 7 reconvene at 7:25, and hear from Sandra Pupatello, 8 Corey Tomkimson, Mr. Marentette I think, JoAnne 9 Merritt, Paul Hartel and Nora McLaren. 10 910 Anybody else who has joined us -- I 11 think we have another name already -- this evening who 12 would like to add their name to the list, please do so 13 and see Mr. Rhéaume here. 14 911 So a short break of 10 minutes. See 15 you at 7:25. 16 --- Recess at 1915 / Suspension à 1915 17 --- Upon resuming at 1925 / Reprise à 1925 18 912 THE CHAIRPERSON: (Off 19 microphone/sans microphone...) come to the table: 20 Mr. Sachs, Sandra Pupatello, Corey Tomkimson, 21 Roland Marentette, JoAnne Merritt, Paul Hartel and 22 Nora -- are you Nora? 23 913 MS McLAREN: I'm Nora McLaren. 24 914 THE CHAIRPERSON: Nora McLaren. 25 915 Mr. Sachs is also here, but my StenoTran 192 1 colleague is not. I think he is having his cigarette. 2 --- Pause / Pause 3 916 THE CHAIRPERSON: As you begin to 4 speak, would you state your name. 5 917 Would you also just take a little 6 time so that our technician has your microphone well 7 adjusted before you get into too much of your 8 presentation. So saying your name nice and slowly will 9 give him a chance to adjust the microphone and let me 10 know if it needs to be brought more forward. 11 918 We will begin the second round of the 12 public consultations. I would like to invite 13 Mr. Sachs, Jonathan Sachs to speak. 14 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 15 919 MR. SACHS: My name is 16 Jonathan Sachs. I am a U.S. citizen. I joke with my 17 friends that that is an accident of birth not of 18 choice. Nevertheless, all my family are also Americans 19 and so I wouldn't ever want to be thought anti- 20 American. 21 920 I probably should also say that 22 neither I nor my wife nor any of my family or friends, 23 to my knowledge, work for the CBC. So I'll say that 24 before I praise it. 25 921 I have lived in five U.S. states and StenoTran 193 1 maybe I'm just repeating what has been said by Canadian 2 citizens here tonight, but there is a difference in 3 sensibility and values between American media and the 4 CBC, as I believe there is a difference between the 5 sensibilities and values -- yes, they have been 6 stereotyped, but -- of the U.S. in general and Canada 7 in general. 8 922 There is no lack of media to propound 9 U.S. values to Canadians. As has been pointed out, 10 that's particularly true here in Windsor and these 11 values, among others are individualism and competition, 12 looking out for number one and keeping your eye on the 13 bottom line. I think our local print media 14 particularly do this effectively. But I'm very glad 15 for the CBC and its role in representing values that I 16 identify with of caring for one another, of not 17 evaluating people only in terms of financial outlook or 18 factors like that. 19 923 When I look at CBC television and 20 listen to CBC radio, what I see and here is 21 intelligence and integrity and values with which I 22 identify, and most of all people who take pride in 23 their work. Without wanting, in any way, to undermine 24 other media outlets within Canada, I believe that the 25 CBC is very much needed and I would like not only to StenoTran 194 1 have its mission continued but enhanced. 2 924 That's all I have to say. 3 925 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 4 much, Mr. Sachs. 5 926 Our next presenter is Sandra 6 Pupatello. If you would come to the table. Good 7 evening. 8 927 As I said earlier in my opening 9 remarks, in order to make sure that we hear everyone, 10 we are not asking any questions this evening to assure 11 that we have enough time. So please don't consider a 12 lack of questions a lack of interest. We prefer to 13 listen to you with your remarks. 14 928 At the end of the remarks, the CBC 15 will have an opportunity to make a few comments as 16 well. 17 929 So, without further ado, 18 Madam Pupatello, if you would like to proceed. 19 930 MS PUPATELLO: May I ask just one 20 question as to who the representatives from CRTC are? 21 931 THE CHAIRPERSON: I am 22 Joan Pennefather. Myself and Donald Rhéaume, the legal 23 counsel. 24 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 25 932 MS PUPATELLO: First, let me start by StenoTran 195 1 showing my appreciation for coming to speak before you 2 today. I did prepare some remarks. There are 3 certainly not enough copies for the guests around the 4 table. 5 933 In 1990, CBC closed our local station 6 and the effect was felt immediately. I distinctly 7 remember the 1990 municipal election when I realized 8 there would be no special coverage of election results 9 that night. I was very angry -- 10 934 THE CHAIRPERSON: Excuse me. 11 935 MS PUPATELLO: Yes? 12 936 THE CHAIRPERSON: Just pull your 13 microphone a little towards you and we will be sure we 14 get all your remarks registered on the public record. 15 937 MS PUPATELLO: Thank you. 16 938 There would be no special coverage of 17 election results that night in 1990. I was very angry. 18 Most were. Behind Mayor John Millson, hundreds and 19 hundreds marched along Riverside Drive to save our 20 station. It was quite a sight. 21 939 For those of you visiting Windsor 22 today, you may not realize that geographically Essex 23 County is practically entirely flanked by the United 24 States and this county is actually south of Michigan. 25 One of many claims to fame is to be the most southerly StenoTran 196 1 portion of Canada parallelled with California. If you 2 think this makes us the most American of our Canadian 3 colleagues, it's the opposite. 4 940 We have the best stories of all 5 describing our dear American friends' incapability of 6 knowing much about our country politically, 7 historically or geographically. The legend anecdotes 8 of Americans arriving at our Windsor border in the heat 9 of July saying, "We are going to Montreal. We want to 10 ski", complete with skiis tied to the roof rack, really 11 make them more endearing to us. What is so amazing 12 about our Canadian attitude is that we can be so 13 fiercely defensive about just how Canadian we are 14 despite our isolation. One might think we were sitting 15 in Kenora, Inuvik or Whitehorse instead of Windsor when 16 I say "isolation". 17 941 Before I appear gushing over the 18 merits of CBC, let me say practically that, today, 19 during a strike at the CBC, we have significant parts 20 of Essex County with no Canadian television news or 21 programming. Cable is not extended throughout the 22 county and transmission of the closest thing to local 23 programming is nothing but a chaotic series of dots on 24 a screen. 25 942 This may be surprising to you. CBC, StenoTran 197 1 for a large part of our country, is the only Canadian 2 television news and programming station. This in a 3 county which boasts a GDP value of $26 billion equal to 4 that of Manitoba, greater than Saskatchewan and greater 5 than the four Atlantic provinces combined. No wonder 6 our municipal leadership is so vital and deserving of 7 coverage during a civic election. That's a significant 8 percentage of national tax revenue, part of which 9 finances the CBC. 10 943 I'm tired of having to rationalize to 11 the rest of the nation or have arguments ready in the 12 top drawer to fire at the inevitable next launch of: 13 Why should we have our own local CBC station? 14 944 The War of 1812 was fought right here 15 in this county which secured the future of the nation, 16 and that is reason enough for the next millennium. I 17 think you owe us. 18 945 Back to the role Canadian news and 19 programming plays in our identity, specifically 20 television. 21 946 We are beating the odds down here. 22 I'm not satisfied with the current role of the CBC. I 23 want more not less from CBC. 24 947 Young people walking down Olet(ph) 25 Avenue are likely to recognize Carmen Harland and StenoTran 198 1 Rich Fisher from the Detroit new stations before they 2 would recognize Peter Mansbridge from our national news 3 program. Likewise, the watercooler talk on a Monday in 4 Toronto is about the most hilarious episode of Air 5 Farce. Here Don Ferguson or Roger Abbott would likely 6 not even turn a head. 7 948 Geographically, we may be swamped, 8 but why is the annual trek of every Essex County high 9 school student to Toronto inclusive of only the Science 10 Centre and Parliament Buildings and not to our CBC 11 buildings? Shouldn't our educators be armed with an 12 imaginative package as a curriculum piece that 13 describes the purpose, history and value of this 14 national public broadcasting asset? How else have 15 young people learned the value of Algonquin Park or how 16 do you explain increased awareness in the environmental 17 issues by young people today, except as a reflection of 18 what they are taught? 19 949 Well, CRTC hearings are to result in 20 what? A redefinition of CBC? A bold new mandate? 21 950 I like the old one. I think we 22 should redefine how we choose to implement the mandate. 23 Just so I'm certain, I'm assuming our need to quote a 24 past committee: 25 "...to provide a forum for StenoTran 199 1 debates, a source of support and 2 a showcase for our newest 3 talented artists and a mirror in 4 which we have seen ourselves." 5 (As read) 6 951 This need still applies. 7 952 In this age of communications 8 revolution it is needed now more than ever. This same 9 communications revolution should be of benefit to the 10 technology at CBC as it is to the rest of the world's 11 communication industry. If the rest of the world is 12 coming in at a fierce pace, then I expect the CBC to be 13 getting out an equally fierce pace, out to every nook 14 and cranny of the nation, let alone the rest of the 15 world. 16 953 Of course funding is an issue. 17 Funding will inevitably be tied to what we value, and 18 that is a function of what we learn. 19 954 The most important point I would like 20 to make tonight is concerning the leadership of the 21 CBC. Tough questions are required to focus on how to 22 implement the mandate of the CBC, not deciding on what 23 the mandate of the CBC should be. I like the one 24 that's founded in 1932. 25 955 It's hard to understand this "CBC StenoTran 200 1 logo flap" becoming a major point of discussion as it 2 was in a March 1st, 1999 Windsor Star editorial. Every 3 major television network features its logo continuously 4 on screen. That sounds like just plain good marketing 5 so channel surfers know where on earth they are while 6 they flick. No major conspiracy here. 7 956 Instead, let's examine the benefit of 8 purchasing American reruns to fill up the time slots. 9 Even the new speed Vision cable channel plays some 10 1960s Daytona 500 race at 3:00 in the morning. Surely 11 a rerun of Canadian sporting events, like the famous 12 Canada-Russia hockey series would garner more interest. 13 But it does change what people would see in their 14 public broadcast system, at least they would see 15 Canadian programming. David Suzuki came long before 16 the Discovery channel and the Discovery channel was 17 profitable. 18 957 My view is the mainstay of CBC must 19 be news and public affairs programming. Local news and 20 local public affairs programming is particularly 21 essential despite the presence in major centres of 22 private services. I say this with the caveat of the 23 CBC being truly at arm's length of the government. 24 That to me means the government can only influence the 25 mandate of two bodies, the CRTC and the CBC, not the StenoTran 201 1 implementation of either one of its mandates. Then, 2 government can only change those mandates through our 3 tried and true democratic process. 4 958 Funding will continue to be an issue. 5 Perhaps we always want more than we are prepared to 6 pay. 7 959 My experience in the area of taxation 8 so far as an elected representative for this area has 9 been insightful. Most feel we pay too much tax. But 10 it is always accompanied by the frustration of poor 11 service or low value for what we have just paid for. 12 960 The benefit of a nationally financed 13 CBC, although many question the level of financing as 14 do I, nonetheless saves us from the never ending 15 marathons and pleas of support to which our American 16 friends and even TVO must resort. In other words, I 17 don't want to see the telethons on CBC. 18 961 The CBC leadership needed the review 19 of implementation of mandate before installing across 20 the board cuts. To make the CBC package a valued 21 commodity that meets its mandate is hard work, but I 22 believe the public is prepared to pay for something of 23 value. Just like parents of adult children continue 24 through their taxes to pay for education for the 25 benefit of society as a whole, so too will we pay for a StenoTran 202 1 valued CBC even when we don't watch it. Then we can 2 only blame ourselves when we remember the last phrase 3 from Walter Kronkite, but not the final farewell of 4 Nolton Nash. 5 962 That concludes my prepared remarks. 6 963 Thank you. 7 964 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 8 much, Ms Pupatello. 9 965 MS PUPATELLO: (Off microphone/sans 10 microphone...) 11 966 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. We 12 would appreciate that. Anybody else who has copies of 13 their remarks, if you would like to leave them with 14 Mr. Rhéaume. Of course all of this is on the public 15 record, as you know, but it is helpful for us to have 16 your remarks. 17 967 Our next participant. 18 968 MR. RHÉAUME: Thank you. Our next 19 speaker is Mr. Corey Tomkimson. No? 20 969 Then we will go to Mr. Roland 21 Marentette. 22 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 23 970 MR. MARENTETTE: Hello, my name is 24 Roland Marentette. 25 971 I guess I should tell you I was born StenoTran 203 1 and raised in this area, so I have been here for a long 2 time. I grew up with the CBC. If it goes I will miss 3 it. I think a lot of Windsorites would probably feel 4 the same way. 5 972 For the many years that I have been a 6 Windsorite, I have come to rely on the local CBC 7 affiliate to provide a definite Canadian touch to our 8 local news. Like many Canadians I view the CBC as my 9 radio and television stations. Sure some would argue 10 that there are other alternatives and that the CBC 11 would still exist if we were to continue to have a 12 national presence only. 13 973 I would argue that the proliferation 14 of cable stations underscores the necessity of 15 maintaining a strong Canadian alternative. The close 16 proximity to the United States can be overwhelming. 17 The everyday bombardment of the American view of life 18 and priorities creates a challenge to parents who 19 resist the influence on their children. The move by 20 the private sector to dominate the media creates a fear 21 that everyday Canadians will eventually lose the right 22 to hold them accountable. 23 974 We only have to look to the 24 concentration of ownership of newspapers and the recent 25 challenge by American interests concerning Canadian StenoTran 204 1 content in magazines sold in Canada, thus the need for 2 Bill C-55. We as Canadians must protect the right to 3 accountability that a properly funded and local CBC can 4 provide. 5 975 What happens to our local news if the 6 private sector decides to downsize? This appears to be 7 the way of doing business today. Do the stations 8 owners decide what stories get priority an how the 9 stories are presented? We have one newspaper in 10 Windsor and there are constant complaints about the 11 editorial viewpoint, but with no competing alternative 12 to provide balance it's take it or leave it. 13 976 The CBC is a Canadian institution, 14 truly a part of our culture. We have a very proud 15 history in Windsor and Essex County with a strong sense 16 of community. Our local CBC has been a large part of 17 it. In the mid-eighties I recall the local CBC 18 affiliate doing an excellent exposé on the plight of 19 the Windsor Bendex workers who were the victims of 20 exposure to asbestos in their workplace. That story 21 mobilized the community to press for stronger health 22 and safety legislation and also the creation of the 23 Industrial Disease Panel, which provided workers with 24 crucial information about many occupational hazards and 25 disease. StenoTran 205 1 977 On December the 16th, 1990, an 2 estimated 5,000 to 7,000 Windsor and Essex Country 3 residents protested the attempted closure of our local 4 affiliate. Every municipal council supported this 5 initiative and actively participated in organizing the 6 event. This is an example of how important the CBC is 7 to us. At that time, many prominent local Liberal 8 politicians, notably the now Deputy Prime Minister 9 Herb Rae, commented on the shortsightedness of this 10 decision. Coincidentally, the same Liberal politicians 11 were sitting in opposition at the time. What a 12 difference an election makes. 13 978 What management of CBC and the 14 federal government have done cannot be allowed to 15 continue. The cutbacks have gone too far. The CRTC 16 must make it very clear that the CBC has to provide 17 full service to all communities in Canada and that 18 means ensuring that the local stations be left intact. 19 I would also strongly suggest that they be encouraged 20 to look at ways of restoring service in the communities 21 where they have been removed. 22 979 You must recognize the important role 23 the CBC has in maintaining our distinct Canadian 24 culture and, just as importantly, your responsibility 25 to protect the interests of consumers and Canadians. StenoTran 206 1 980 Thank you. 2 981 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 3 much, Mr. Marentette. 4 982 Our next speaker. 5 983 MR. RHÉAUME: The next speaker is 6 JoAnne Merritt. 7 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 8 984 MS MERRITT: Good evening. 9 985 My name is JoAnne Merritt, or as I 10 have often been referred to by our local CBC Morning 11 Watch host, the president of the loyal listeners club. 12 986 When I learned of your coming to our 13 area, I felt compelled to speak to you about the CBC 14 and its importance to me. I am a second generation CBC 15 listener and I'm doing my best to raise two third 16 generation listeners. I am what I consider to be a 17 younger listener than the majority who regularly tune 18 in. But I wasn't always a loyal listener. 19 987 Like most teenagers, I used to listen 20 to loud in-your-face morning shows whose hosts were the 21 picture of cool and whose programs were nothing short 22 of flaky, give or take a joke or two. It is my father 23 who bears responsibility for my conversion. The CBC 24 was his station of choice in the morning, not mine, 25 unless of course there was a chance for school closure StenoTran 207 1 due to snow. 2 988 When I grew up and moved out and had 3 my own children, I became boss of the radio dial. It 4 seemed that I was programmed though and it had remained 5 stuck on the CBC 1550, an AM station. My high school 6 chums would never have believed it. 7 989 To this day, like making oatmeal or 8 brushing my teeth, listening to the CBC has become an 9 important part of my morning routine. Why did this 10 happen? You could call it a revelation or you could 11 just call it parenthood. 12 990 Something happens to you when you 13 enter into the world of parenthood or at least it did 14 to me. Identity became very important to me. I found 15 it vital that my boys share a sense of pride in knowing 16 who they are. We all need to know where our place is 17 in the world and how we fit in and what our social 18 responsibilities are. We are Canadian, the passive, 19 friendly lot here in the north. 20 991 We don't find the need to be boastful 21 about it, but rather the red and white flag that flies 22 in front of my children's school reminds them of this 23 each day. The unique coins bearing pictures of beavers 24 and loons that fill their piggy banks, the licence 25 plate on their mom's car and of course the national StenoTran 208 1 anthem that they remove their hat and stand proudly for 2 prior to the start of the hockey game are subtle 3 reminders that they are Canadian. They are proud of 4 it, as am I. 5 992 So here it is. Trust me when I tell 6 you that I'm no musician, but if I had a harmonica in 7 my pocket right now I would probably be playing you a 8 little tune and it would definitely be the blues. The 9 border city blues. 10 993 As a border city, we here in Windsor 11 live a stone's throw from our American neighbour 12 Detroit. I'm not going to pretend that living so close 13 to a major U.S. city doesn't have its advantages 14 because it does. We are close to a host of 15 restaurants, sports events and an array of concerts. 16 When it is closing time, though, we like to come back 17 home to Windsor. 18 994 Living in a city bordering the United 19 States is no easy task, though, when it comes to 20 maintaining our identity. Some days it feels as though 21 we are but another suburb of Detroit. The media 22 signals bounce across the river into our TVs, stereos 23 and car radios, so much so that it takes over the 24 airwaves. 25 995 Our children hear so much of the StenoTran 209 1 American media that they begin to confuse or even 2 mistake it for our own. How many times have we 3 listened to children describe a day in the life of the 4 President of the United States but who can't put a name 5 to the Prime Minister of Canada. The level of American 6 media content our families are exposed to through the 7 course of a day is astounding. As a parent, this 8 concerns me. This is where the CBC comes into play. 9 996 You see in that sea of U.S. 10 commercialize we can concede and hop aboard the luxury 11 liner with mega horsepower sponsored by corporate 12 America or we can climb into the CBC canoe and grab a 13 paddle. The luxury liner will eventually run out of 14 gas, but the canoe will remain afloat and travel along 15 one stroke at a time. 16 997 With all the cuts that have been 17 made, one has to wonder, though, how long the CBC can 18 remain afloat. Those who have remained loyal to the 19 CBC wonder how much more it can possibly take. I often 20 wonder how they manage to do it sometimes with only a 21 life preserver and a paddle remaining. 22 998 You might wonder why I stick by the 23 CBC, with the variety of hit programs and entertainment 24 available to me just a channel away. The CBC is 25 constant. The CBC provides me with both a local and StenoTran 210 1 national picture of what's happening in the news. The 2 CBC covers the entire spectrum in news and 3 entertainment. I can hear about everything from the 4 local church bizarre to the crisis on our east coast, 5 and I can be sure that through the CBC my sister in 6 Calgary, or my relatives in Newfoundland, are provided 7 the same quality programming. It makes us all somehow 8 feel connected. 9 999 If not for the CBC, both radio and 10 television, I probably would not have been aware of the 11 superb talent my fellow Canadians possess, many of whom 12 the rest of North America are just beginning to 13 discover now. 14 1000 We are fortunate here in Canada that 15 we maintain so many diverse cultures and therefore 16 cultivate a huge range of talents. For example, my son 17 who, through CBC, spoke on the air with his idol 18 Fred Penner at the age of four is now an avid fan of 19 the Red Green Show at the age of 12. His younger 20 brother has learned more about Canadian politics 21 through the Royal Canadian Air Farce than I ever knew 22 at the age of 10, and he also does a wonderful 23 impression of Preston Manning. I feel you really 24 haven't experienced funny until you have listened to 25 Madly Off in All Directions. I couldn't say enough StenoTran 211 1 about the sharp wit of Rick Mercer and the cast of This 2 Hour Has 22 Minutes either. One viewing and you are 3 hooked. 4 1001 These folks actually allow us the 5 unique experience of laughing at ourselves. The CBC 6 also allows the average citizen to have a voice which 7 makes them feel as though what they think truly 8 matters. 9 1002 The sports and weather reported by 10 the CBC are also uniquely Canadian. Where else but on 11 CBC can you hear the national scores of our Canadian 12 teams without being smothered in hype or glitz? That's 13 right, some of our Canadian teams haven't headed south 14 of the border and deserve our attention. 15 1003 We also hear the scores from high 16 school sports and local leagues which the kid next door 17 or down the street plays for. This is important to our 18 community. 19 1004 In the weather department, some local 20 stations have actually given in when reporting the 21 weather and still give it in fahrenheit as our U.S. 22 neighbours do. The CBC reports the weather for Windsor 23 in celsius as in the rest of Canada. 24 1005 My high school math teacher would 25 actually be proud because, after all these years, it StenoTran 212 1 has sunk in and I have mastered celsius conversion 2 without having to reach for a calculator. 22 degrees 3 celsius really feels like 22 degrees celsius. 4 1006 Each summer as we vacation at my 5 father's cottage up in the great white north outside 6 Chapleau we are as remote as you can get. It's a 7 20-minute drive into the bush from any main road and a 8 boat ride or a long bumpy car ride to a telephone. 9 Usually, the only sound that you can hear is the call 10 of the loon or the wind across the lake. Hydro is a 11 luxury, and thanks to it the only other sound you can 12 hear on a summer's day is the sound of the CBC. The 13 radio that sits propped on a lawn chair with tin foil 14 wrapped around the antennae for reception provides our 15 link to the rest of the country. 16 1007 That is bliss. A good breath of 17 fresh northern air and the sound of the CBC. 18 1008 So you see, the CBC is important to 19 me and my family. We learn, we laugh, we sing and we 20 listen to the CBC. Whether I am miles deep in a bush 21 in northern Ontario or just minutes from the border of 22 our overpowering neighbour, the CBC succeeds at making 23 me feel Canadian. 24 1009 Thank you. 25 1010 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, JoAnne. StenoTran 213 1 1011 Our next speaker. 2 1012 MR. RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is 3 Paul Hartel. 4 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 5 1013 MR. HARTEL: Thank you very much. 6 1014 I have a printed submission which I 7 would like to enter into the record, but I would like 8 to speak to a submission. 9 1015 First of all, I want to thank you for 10 coming to Windsor. Windsor is a very unique community 11 and this whole region in southwestern Ontario is also 12 very unique. Indeed, one of the former presenters made 13 a comment about its unique geographical 14 characteristics. 15 1016 I believe that CBC radio and 16 television plays a vital role for the Windsor region. 17 This station, Channel 9, and CBC radio, 1550, has 18 suffered very significantly big cuts by both the 19 Mulroney and Chrétien governments and their 20 administrations. I believe that these budget cuts and 21 program cuts must be reversed and I believe therefore 22 Windsor needs more and not less CBC coverage. 23 1017 This region has a dominant industrial 24 agricultural and multicultural profile. Indeed, this 25 area is indeed one of perhaps the most multiculturally StenoTran 214 1 typical communities in Canada. I believe that we need 2 more service in both official languages. 3 1018 I don't think the service that is 4 provided by the private sector does the job. CBC does 5 the job. Profit guides the private sector and 6 community thinking guides the CBC coverage. I believe 7 this is a value that must be supported. 8 1019 I'm a teacher. I teach high school. 9 I work with the Essex Country Board of Education and 10 now the Greater Essex Board of Education for 28 years. 11 I'm a history and social science teacher. I use, its 12 vital for me in my job to use what the CBC provides to 13 us. 14 1020 One particular program has to do with 15 the CBC news and review. That series is very vital for 16 transmitting the issues, the value issues, the sense of 17 community across this nation and if we don't have this 18 available for our students, indeed we are the worse for 19 it. 20 1021 In Ontario, the curriculum is being 21 changed. We have to have a new civics program prepared 22 for Grade 10 students, and I tell you we need more 23 community programming to guarantee what we are supposed 24 to be teaching. I want to really emphasize that point 25 with you. StenoTran 215 1 1022 My students live very close to the 2 American border here, as was presented earlier, and I 3 need this vehicle to reassert their sense of community 4 identity. One of the units I teach has to do with our 5 identity, and indeed the whole issue of the role of the 6 CBC and the mass media in supporting and nurturing a 7 Canadian identity is part of the discussion we have in 8 this unit that I teach in my course for Grade 9 and 9 Grade 10 students. Please be assured that I need the 10 CBC. That's my point. 11 1023 My wife and I both enjoy the radio 12 programming immensely. In fact, my wife has often 13 remarked that without the CBC her introduction to 14 Canadian society as a new immigrant to this country 15 would not have been as helpful and as full as what it 16 has become over the period of the last 30 years. 17 Indeed, when we hear programming on Sunday's or, for 18 example, Otto Lowie's(ph) program, the Continental 19 program, things like this, news programming, this is 20 stuff that is vital for helping new Canadians become 21 part of our bigger community. I speak for this point 22 from personal experience. I wanted to share that with 23 you. 24 1024 I like very much the television 25 programming. Howard Pawley talked about public affairs StenoTran 216 1 programming such as the Fifth Estate and I agree with 2 his list of points there. 3 1025 But we also like, my wife and I do 4 like, such entertainment programs that come out on 5 Sunday evening and two such as Emily of New Moon and 6 Wind At My Back. Those kind of programs in the 7 entertainment sector are also very, very nice to watch 8 and I think they are good. 9 1026 I wanted to respond to the questions 10 you put out in your public notice. One of the 11 questions was: 12 "How well does the CBC fulfil 13 its role as the national public 14 broadcaster?" (As read) 15 1027 I think the CBC is doing well, but I 16 want more. I think the cuts have truly hurt. I would 17 encourage the CBC to continue doing what it has been 18 doing well with. 19 1028 Another question was: 20 "How well does the CBC serve the 21 public on a regional as well as 22 a national level?" (As read) 23 1029 My feeling is that restoring funding 24 to Windsor will assure more regional programming that 25 meets our needs. StenoTran 217 1 1030 This is a major automotive NAFTA 2 region. It's a major area for agriculture. We used to 3 have really big, in depth programs. I know there was 4 an agricultural program a few years ago. This kind of 5 stuff is gone. I mean agriculture in Essex County is 6 one of the fastest growing sectors of the economy. 7 There is more hectares under plastic for the tomato 8 business than you would ever believe. Therefore, I'm 9 suggesting that we have to have programs that help us 10 understand our local region better. 11 1031 With regard to current affairs 12 programs locally. Sandra Pupatello commented about an 13 election. Well, we can't get good community coverage 14 with three minutes on Percy's Panel, you know, three 15 minutes mid week. We need more that's seriously 16 addressed. I think the CBC can do this quite well. 17 1032 A couple of other little things that 18 I wanted to mention in my submission that has to do 19 with the entertainment programming and arts coverage 20 with respect to the question: 21 "Is there a special role that 22 the CBC should play in the 23 presentation of Canadian 24 programming?" (As read) 25 1033 I really think that we have to StenoTran 218 1 encourage more in the entertainment sector. It's sort 2 of up and down and the fill-in with American program 3 content is -- you know, it's been an outstanding 4 question for years. But I do think that attention to 5 this sector is important. We should not allow the CBC 6 to withdraw from and allow just a total privatized 7 entertainment market sector there. I think there is a 8 role. 9 1034 North of 60 is a good program that I 10 think reflects the Canadian identity. With the 11 evolution of Nunavut I think clearly we are going to 12 have to pay more attention to our norther communities 13 in the realm of entertainment. So that is my view 14 there. 15 1035 The last thing I wanted to share is 16 my view on this debate on Channel 3, or this youth 17 channel discussion. I think it is important to deal 18 with this within a CBC context so long as it meets the 19 objectives of strengthening the Canadian identity, 20 strengthening our communities, being nationalistic, if 21 you like, in a positive sense to assert that Canada is 22 a strong nation. 23 1036 This is not just a commodity's 24 market-based society, in my view. You know, this is a 25 community. Our national heritage, our history is based StenoTran 219 1 on agreements between communities and regions of this 2 country and I believe that we must encourage more of 3 this in all that CBC does. If it plays it out in the 4 area of entertainment, as well as with youth 5 programming, then, indeed -- just like back in 1932 or 6 1936 when they had this first coast-to-coast broadcast: 7 Hello, Halifax; hello, Toronto; hello, Vancouver. I 8 have played that in my classes you know. It's quite a 9 funny thing to hear, you know? 10 1037 But if the youth of Canada can hear 11 that "hello" from coast to coast, I think our future 12 will be better defined and I encourage the CRTC to take 13 these matters under consideration. 14 1038 Thank you very much. 15 1039 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, 16 Mr. Hertel. 17 1040 We will go on now to another speaker 18 please. 19 1041 MR. RHÉAUME: The next speaker is 20 Nora McLaren. 21 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 22 1042 MS McLAREN: I can only echo what the 23 rest of the speakers have been saying to you. 24 1043 Paul jogged in my memory something I 25 saw on CBC TV the other night. It was an interview StenoTran 220 1 with a man who had been charged with smuggling from the 2 U.S. to Canada. He was a First Nations' person and his 3 defence was that he was not smuggling because to him 4 the word Kanata or Canada meant a small village and he 5 was only bringing these goods from the U.S. soil to his 6 First Nations' soil. He was incarcerated for his 7 misdeeds, but I doubt if his attitude will change much. 8 1044 Fortunately, last summer I was a 9 guest on an Elder Hostel in Yellowknife and a Métis was 10 in charge of our education there, and he gave a totally 11 different attitude of our First Nations' people. He 12 was half Indian and half French and made sure that we 13 knew that because he said half breeds are half native 14 and half English, so we knew where his loyalties were 15 lying. But he would not be able to communicate as well 16 as he does if it had not been for, first of all, his 17 residential schooling, which he said was wonderful; 18 and, secondly, because of CBC he can reflect his 19 people's views. 20 1045 Other than through Elder Hostel, he 21 can tell people who are broadcasting on CBC from the 22 Northwest Territories that this is part of our country, 23 our village, our small country. He thinks of it as a 24 vast country because up there nothing is small. The 25 sky is big, the forest fires are huge, the lakes are StenoTran 221 1 endless, the lands, the barrens, indescribable for 2 anyone who has never seen them. 3 1046 I can't without emotion, obviously, 4 say enough about my feelings as a Canadian, because in 5 my early life I was a housewife who was totally 6 isolated -- not in our north but in Welland County 7 which is also along the U.S.A./Canadian border. I had 8 no telephone, no car, and babies, and you know they tie 9 you very securely to the home. 10 1047 CBC was my lifeline. I had come from 11 a university milieu where I had people to talk to and 12 suddenly I had infants. I mean, I wanted them, but who 13 knows how I would have coped if I hadn't had the 14 intellectual stimulus of CBC and the musical stimulus. 15 1048 Fortunately, my three children and 16 their three mates and my eight grandchildren are all 17 following in my listening footsteps even though four of 18 them are, heaven forbid, living and working in 19 Michigan, but I see them frequently. 20 1049 Recently, my daughter and I, to 21 preserve her foot in Canada, as she says, have 22 purchased a cottage in that area of Essex County that 23 is not being adequately served by CBC TV in Windsor. I 24 say "not adequately" because their signal isn't strong 25 enough to be seen really clearly, as clearly as the StenoTran 222 1 American signals are. So I'm one of those that only 2 hears Canadian news in my car, from my car radio, now 3 that I live in the boondocks of Essex County in the 4 middle of the most profitable agricultural sector of 5 Ontario. 6 1050 I notice a different attitude among 7 the children, among the adults with whom I have been 8 connecting these past two weeks since I moved. It is 9 why I moved to that part of our area, because I find it 10 distressing that our children, as Paul said, are 11 listening to American television predominantly and it's 12 very difficult to instruct them on Canadian values when 13 they aren't reinforced by your outer media, the media 14 that they are bombarded with daily, nightly, all the 15 time, in the middle of the night if they can't sleep. 16 1051 I do try to echo all of those things 17 that I have heard from all the other speakers and I 18 thank you for your opportunity to let me say what I 19 have said. 20 1052 THE CHAIRPERSON: We thank you, 21 Mrs. McLaren. 22 1053 Our next presenter is 23 Kerri Kavanaugh. 24 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 25 1054 MS KAVANAUGH: Good evening. StenoTran 223 1 1055 I would like to take this time to say 2 thank you for allowing us to fit in here. 3 1056 My name is Kerri Kavanaugh. This is 4 Summer Turnbull and Ernest Chiasson. We will be 5 speaking about implementing a multicultural youth 6 education program. 7 1057 A way to improve the CBC's television 8 broadcasting for the new millennium: By strengthening 9 Canada's youth, by providing an inclusive society 10 through which the implementation of better television 11 broadcasting to which people of all backgrounds, whose 12 identities are respected and recognized as vital to an 13 ever-evolving Canadian identity, feel a sense of 14 belonging and attachment to our country. 15 1058 We feel that CBC should embrace the 16 federal Canadian multiculturalism policy to implement 17 more responsible youth-oriented programming geared 18 towards cultural diversity and awareness. 19 1059 Because Canada has become one of the 20 most culturally diverse places to live in the world, 21 this education is essential in creating a solid 22 foundation for children before negative stereotypes are 23 produced. This education is needed to better prepare 24 children for the ever-evolving multicultural world that 25 lies ahead. These necessary life skills are needed to StenoTran 224 1 be successful in social aspects of life and as well as 2 in the workplace when they grow up. 3 1060 Also, due to the geographic vastness 4 of Canada, it may become impossible for our youth to 5 experience a wide variety of cultures that Canada does 6 have to offer. CBC already displays a cast of 7 multicultural characters on their shows. However, 8 there is little or no exhibition of these individuals' 9 cultural backgrounds, therefore, masking any 10 differences that do exist. 11 1061 We are aware that programs dealing 12 with this subject matter are available for adults, 13 however it is our youth that could benefit the most 14 from this bond-to-bond and instill patriotism in our 15 youth by providing a sense of involvement for them. 16 1062 Based on the redesigned 17 multiculturalism goal, we are able to gain a better 18 understanding of what is needed to implement such a 19 program. The goals are: identity, which is fostering 20 a society that recognizes, respects and reflects a 21 diversity of cultures that such people of all 22 backgrounds feel a sense of and belonging and 23 attachment to Canada; civic participation, which is 24 developing among Canada's diverse people active 25 citizens with both the opportunity and the capacity to StenoTran 225 1 participate in shaping the future of their communities 2 and their country and social justice; and building a 3 society that ensures fair and equitable treatment and 4 that respects the dignity of and accommodates people of 5 all origins. 6 1063 These three goals are closely tied to 7 some of the central social issues of our time. These 8 issues directly involve our children and our youth. 9 CBC could much improve their stability towards this 10 country as strong ties to child and youth programming 11 would be implemented, supporting not ignoring issues of 12 cultural diversity. 13 1064 One of the strategies CBC planned to 14 implement was to make CBC as Canadian as possible. We 15 urge those responsible for making these strategic 16 decisions to implement programs that would patriate 17 Canadians at an early age. 18 1065 We appear to stand alone in a world 19 where everyone of second and third generation still 20 think of themselves in terms of their ethnic 21 background. Since Canada is now well over 100 years 22 old, it is time for us to begin thinking of ourselves 23 primarily as Canadian while still embracing and 24 celebrating our diverse and ethnic backgrounds. 25 1066 Summer has something. StenoTran 226 1 1067 MS TURNBULL: We are not ignoring the 2 fact that the CBC does show a variety of different 3 ethnic races. I would like to make a reference to the 4 show Pynjew(ph), which is a Japanese show. However, we 5 do feel that the programs that are offered lack 6 multicultural differences in showing the different 7 races, cultures, beliefs, values and entertainment. 8 1068 The decision made by the CRTC 87-40 9 which states: 10 "...a renewal of the CBC 11 contract with particular focus 12 on the youth and children. The 13 Commission believes that the CBC 14 should develop alternative 15 offerings which even if they 16 attract fewer youth would at 17 least give those it did attract 18 a reflection and a sense of 19 Canada." (As read) 20 1069 Thank you. 21 1070 MS KAVANAUGH: I'm sorry. Also, with 22 that, in the CBC's recommendations for the CBC renewal 23 licence, it is stated that: 24 "Children and youth represent 25 the sum of 22% of our population StenoTran 227 1 and are an especially important 2 group because they are a future 3 audience for Canadian 4 programming. If we do step back 5 too quickly and abandon them to 6 the lure of imported programs or 7 channels, it is impossible they 8 will develop a taste for 9 domestic television later. It 10 is this direct connection they 11 need to feel to our country." 12 (As read) 13 1071 CBC is not meeting these guidelines 14 and providing a sense of cultural identity, no matter 15 what culture they may belong to. It is this education 16 that is severely lacking. And for CBC to continue in 17 the good manner in which they have been, they need to 18 educate our youths. They are the most important ones 19 because they are going to be our future leaders. 20 1072 Thank you. 21 1073 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Kerri. 22 1074 Could you just clarify for me what 23 you were quoting from. Is it the licence decision, the 24 1994 Licence Decision? 25 1075 MS KAVANAUGH: Yes. But it's the StenoTran 228 1 licensing decision from July 27th, 1994, 94-4-37. 2 1076 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 3 much. Thank you to you all. 4 1077 That completes the list of names, but 5 do you want to check back. 6 1078 MR. RHÉAUME: Maybe we could ask 7 again Mr. David Shragge; Mr. Dean La Bute; 8 Dr. Alfie Morgan; and, finally, Mr. Corey Tomkimson. 9 1079 MR. SHIELDS: Would it be possible to 10 add my name to it? 11 1080 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes. I was just 12 going to suggest, if there was anyone in the room who 13 would like to make a comment. 14 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 15 1081 MR. SHIELDS: Thank you for this 16 opportunity. I hadn't anticipated speaking this 17 evening. 18 1082 I'm fortunate enough to teach at the 19 University of Windsor and 17 of my students have 20 presented this evening in one of the two rooms here. 21 1083 I teach telecommunication policy at 22 the university. What I have noticed each of them speak 23 on was the inability of the CRTC to enforce the 24 conditions of licence that has been previously placed 25 on the CBC. StenoTran 229 1 1084 Each of the groups have quoted the 2 last conditions of licence that the CRTC laid out for 3 the CBC and in each case the CBC failed to meet those 4 conditions. 5 1085 I have heard many people this evening 6 speak about the importance of an increased budget to 7 the CBC, which is an absolute necessity and I more than 8 agree with that. My concerns lie in somehow for the 9 CRTC to provide, make some form of provision, whereby 10 the CBC becomes more accountable to their conditions of 11 licence. The failures are rampant throughout the last 12 conditions of licence. There are many instances. I 13 don't feel there is a need for me to go into them. I 14 think many of the students this evening have gone 15 through many of the topics. 16 1086 Let me point out that the funding for 17 my education came from the CBC. I have been fortunate 18 enough to play the lead in three of their movies, a 19 lead in their series, and I have made several 20 documentaries with the CBC. I feel very fortunate to 21 live in a country that allows for a corporation such as 22 the CBC to exist. However, if the CRTC intends to 23 place conditions on the licence of the CBC and intends 24 for those conditions to be played out, then, history 25 has told us that the CBC perhaps might not do that. StenoTran 230 1 I'm not certain of a mechanism that would allow for 2 that, but I would hope the CRTC would consider those 3 infractions. 4 1087 Thanks very much. 5 1088 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much 6 for those comments. 7 1089 Are there any other people in the 8 room who would like to say a few words and join us at 9 the table? 10 1090 If not, could I ask, Mr. Taylor -- 11 are you ready to comment right now, Mr. Taylor from the 12 CBC? 13 REPLY / RÉPLIQUE 14 1091 MR. TAYLOR: Madam Chair, this 15 afternoon, on behalf of the CBC, I would like to thank 16 all those who took the time and who cared enough to 17 make presentations to you about the services that we 18 provide. 19 1092 My name is Bruce Taylor. I represent 20 English television, and have made copious notes to make 21 sure that all of those issues which relate to English 22 television get back to the proper places. 23 1093 My colleagues representing CBC radio, 24 CBC English radio, CBC French radio and television, at 25 this time they are all here, as well as are similar StenoTran 231 1 representatives in the other room also making sure that 2 that happens. 3 1094 So once again, thank you very much; 4 and thank you to the Commission for coming to Windsor 5 so that these people could make their comments, 6 concerns, ideas and suggestions known. 7 1095 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 8 much, Mr. Taylor. 9 1096 I would like to take the opportunity 10 to thank everyone who participated in this process this 11 afternoon and this evening in Windsor. I'm sure my 12 colleague across the barrier there will be also 13 thanking or has already thanked the participants. This 14 process is only as successful as the participation of 15 Canadians across the country who come forward to 16 express their views. 17 1097 After our days here in Windsor and 18 Sudbury, we cannot help but see that community and 19 others are certainly ready to come forward and express 20 their views. 21 1098 I have often asked: What are the 22 themes that are emerging? Without breaking any rules, 23 I think I can say quite clearly that there certainly is 24 a sense of community here in Windsor that was 25 unmistakeable, and I really appreciate you bringing StenoTran 232 1 that forward to our attention, and all the unique 2 aspects of this particular area of the country. 3 1099 J'aimerais remercier tout le monde 4 qui est venu ce soir et pendant l'après-midi pour nous 5 apporter leurs réflexions sur l'avenir de Radio-Canada. 6 J'aimerais remercier aussi notre reporteur et 7 technicien. 8 1100 Sorry, to the technician for the ups 9 and downs of the microphones, but as Nicholas will 10 remember if there is one thing that is sure, at his 11 film screening the old fashioned bulbs will once in 12 awhile go. They will always pop on you. 13 1101 Thank you very much to everyone. 14 Thank you to my colleague. Once again, we really 15 appreciate your participating in this consultation. 16 1102 As I said in my earlier remarks, the 17 hearings for the licence renewals are at the end of May 18 in Hull and you can participate in that hearing through 19 writing to the CTC. 20 1103 Thank you again. 21 1104 That closes the public consultations. 22 1105 One final note, though. We did say 23 we would go until 10:00. My colleague and I will 24 remain here for a short while just in case somebody 25 does come in a little later, but I think not. I think StenoTran 233 1 if anybody was coming down tonight they would be here 2 by now. So I feel comfortable to say goodnight to you 3 all and thank you. 4 --- Recess at 2030 / Suspension à 2030 5 --- Upon resuming at 2035 / Reprise à 2035 6 1106 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Tomkimson is 7 here. 8 1107 Are you ready to go? Whenever you 9 are ready we are ready to hear you. 10 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 11 1108 MR. TOMKIMSON: Before I begin, I 12 would like to make the point that I am here strictly as 13 a member of the public and as a viewer, an audience 14 member of the CBC. 15 1109 My presentation has to do with the 16 military, the Canadian forces and the Department of 17 National Defence, and I want you to know that I am not 18 representing them. These are my own views and do not 19 necessarily reflect the views of the Canadian forces in 20 any way, just as a common disclaimer. 21 1110 I would like to begin by saying that 22 there is a lack of representation for a large group of 23 loyal Canadians. People from all walks of life, from 24 St. John's to Victoria, and Alert to Windsor, risk 25 their lives on a daily basis at home and abroad. These StenoTran 234 1 people are those standing on guard for thee. 2 1111 When one mentions the Canadian 3 forces, many conjure up images of hazing rituals and 4 the Somalia scandal. The mainstream media has not been 5 kind to the men and women associated with the Canadian 6 military. In the past, a lack of fairness has been 7 voted towards the Canadian military in covering vital 8 stories. We know this from the Oka crisis of 1990, 9 Operation Desert Storm in 1991 and the events leading 10 to the Somalia Inquiry. 11 1112 Yes, these are newsworthy items and 12 they deserve to be reported to Canadians, we, as the 13 public have a right to know. But the CBC also 14 broadcasts miniseries such as The Valour and the Horror 15 from which many upset veterans came forward. 16 1113 The problem is beyond bad press there 17 is a deep-rooted misunderstanding of our country's 18 Department of National Defence, and this I feel is 19 largely due to ignorance. 20 1114 To change this, the Canadian public 21 must be educated. The CBC as a national public 22 broadcaster has the means to do it. Canadians should 23 become aware of the real military and meet the real 24 people who continue to make it function. The CBC has a 25 vast broadcasting network capable of reaching the StenoTran 235 1 majority of Canadians and has the resources to produce 2 quality programming with limited financial needs. 3 1115 A program which is 100 per cent 4 Canadian, inexpensive, simple to produce which serves a 5 single unique purpose is the stuff that dreams are made 6 of for broadcasters such as the CBC. 7 1116 I'm sure most of you are well aware 8 of the recent events in which the military were 9 involved in great numbers. For example, the Saguenay 10 Flood in Quebec; the Red River Flood in Manitoba; 11 Ice Storm '98 which, as you know, disabled most of 12 eastern Ontario and western Quebec; Hurricane Mitch in 13 Central America; and most recently the snow induced 14 state of emergency in Toronto. Only during these 15 crisis did the military receive a favourable coverage 16 for their swift action in saving lives and putting 17 their fellow human beings first. You might think the 18 Canadian forces are mainly involved with the United 19 Nations' peacekeeping missions. Well, here are some 20 numbers for your information. 21 1117 This year, the total regular force 22 consists of approximately 60,000 personnel. The 23 reserves hold an additional 30,000. A total of 20,000 24 civilians are employed by the DND and the Canadian 25 forces. From a total of approximately 110,000 StenoTran 236 1 personnel, nearly 1,400 are currently serving with the 2 UN in peacekeeping duties. 3 1118 So what else is there to know? Well, 4 perhaps you would be interested in knowing how many 5 lives were saved last year by the men and women who 6 performed search and rescue patrols from sea to sea and 7 everywhere in between. Perhaps you would like to know 8 who the Canadian rangers are and how they assist the 9 Inuit peoples of the north. What about a youth 10 training organization which currently holds a 11 membership of over 15,000? 12 1119 Yes, there are many aspects of 13 military life never explored by the mainstream media. 14 A program dedicated to understanding privates to 15 generals, their families, their jobs and how it all 16 effects Canadians would benefit both the misunderstood 17 military and the misinformed public. This program I'm 18 speaking of would span the three elements -- army, navy 19 and air force -- and would look at everything from 20 fighter pilots to cooks, doctors to musicians, and 21 clerks to the chief of defence staff themselves. 22 1120 Now I come to the question: Why the 23 CBC? Why not a private broadcaster? 24 1121 The answer is twofold. First, from 25 the perspective of journalism, the CBC must inform the StenoTran 237 1 public on all aspects of the Canadian military, not 2 focusing mainly on the negative while only portraying 3 the limited positive undertakings. 4 1122 Secondly, the CBC, as a public 5 broadcaster, is required to foster a Canadian sense of 6 culture and identity. By offering an insight to the 7 Canadian people of who and what their tax dollars 8 support, the CBC would satisfy one part of their 9 mandate. The CBC, with the support of National 10 Defence, could put such a program in Canadian living 11 rooms. 12 1123 I understand the force's population 13 of approximately 110,000 may seem small in contrast to 14 the audience of the CBC, but the numbers I spoke of 15 earlier are just enrolled personnel. Multiply that by 16 three and you might have a rough estimate of military 17 dependence. So over 330,000 people's lives, who we as 18 a public are not aware, represents a reason in its own 19 for a creation of this type of programming. 20 1124 I urge the members of the CRTC here 21 before me to seriously consider what I have brought to 22 your attention. If steps are taken immediately to 23 investigate the possibility of this type of 24 programming, perhaps we as Canadians can once again be 25 proud of the men and women who risk their lives and StenoTran 238 1 stand on guard for thee. 2 1125 Thank you. 3 1126 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 4 much, Mr. Tomkimson. 5 1127 I said in my opening remarks this 6 afternoon and this evening that in order to allow 7 everyone to speak we would not ask questions, so please 8 don't take my not asking a question as any comment on 9 your remarks. 10 1128 Also, as you know, your remarks are 11 entered into the public record and they will join the 12 public record of the CRTC hearing at the end of May, at 13 the hearings in May, which will look into the renewal 14 of licences, all the CBC licences. So your remarks 15 will be carried forward to that hearing as well. 16 1129 MR. TOMKIMSON: Okay. 17 1130 THE CHAIRPERSON: If you wish to make 18 any further comment at the renewal of the CBC licences, 19 you can do so by writing to the CRTC and the public 20 notices will allow you to know what the timing is for 21 that as well. 22 1131 MR. TOMKIMSON: Okay. 23 1132 THE CHAIRPERSON: CBC has also been 24 here at all our sessions and are asked to make any 25 comments at the end of the evening, so I would like StenoTran 239 1 them to speak to you as well. 2 REPLY / RÉPLIQUE 3 1133 MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Tomkimson, I'm 4 Bruce Taylor from CBC Television. I would just like to 5 say thank you for taking the time to make a 6 presentation about the service we provide, and we have 7 taken due note. 8 1134 Thank you very much. 9 1135 MR. TOMKIMSON: Okay. Thank you very 10 much. 11 --- Whereupon the consultation concluded at 2015 / 12 Le consultation se termine à 2015 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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