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Providing Content in Canada's Official Languages
Please note that the Official Languages Act requires that government publications be available in both official languages.
In order to meet some of the requirements under this Act, the Commission's transcripts will therefore be bilingual as to their covers, the listing of CRTC members and staff attending the hearings, and the table of contents.
However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded verbatim transcript and, as such, is transcribed in either of the official languages, depending on the language spoken by the participant at the hearing.
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
FOR THE CANADIAN RADIO-TELEVISION AND
TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DU
CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION
ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES
SUBJECT / SUJET:
PUBLIC CONSULTATION ON THE
CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION (CBC)/
CONSULTATIONS PUBLIQUES SUR LA
SOCIÉTÉ RADIO-CANADA (SRC)
HELD AT: TENUE À:
Hilton Windsor Hotel Hôtel Hilton Windsor
Erie Room Salle Erie
277 Riverside Drive W. 277 Prom. Riverside O.
Windsor, Ontario Windsor (Ontario)
March 18, 1999 Le 18 mars 1999
tel: 613-521-0703 StenoTran fax: 613-521-7668
Transcripts
In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages
Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be
bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members
and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of
Contents.
However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded
verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in
either of the official languages, depending on the language
spoken by the participant at the public hearing.
Transcription
Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues
officielles, les procès-verbaux pour le Conseil seront
bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des
membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience
publique ainsi que la table des matières.
Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu
textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée
et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues
officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le
participant à l'audience publique.
StenoTran
Canadian Radio-television and
Telecommunications Commission
Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des
télécommunications canadiennes
Transcript / Transcription
Public Hearing / Audience publique
PUBLIC CONSULTATION ON THE
CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION (CBC)/
CONSULTATIONS PUBLIQUES SUR LA
SOCIÉTÉ RADIO-CANADA (SRC)
BEFORE / DEVANT:
Joan Pennefather Chairperson / Présidente
Commissioner / Conseillère
ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS:
David Rhéaume Secretary / Secrétaire
Commission Counsel /
Avocat du Conseil
HELD AT: TENUE À:
Hilton Windsor Hotel Hôtel Hilton Windsor
Erie Room Salle Erie
277 Riverside Drive W. 277 Prom. Riverside O.
Windsor, Ontario Windsor (Ontario)
March 18, 1999 Le 18 mars 1999
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TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES
PAGE
Presentation by / Présentation par:
Ms Margaret Dudley 8
Mr. Fred Plexman 12
Ms Priscilla Connelly 14
Mr. Bruce Crozier 17
Mr. Nick Carlan 22
Mr. Paul Poirier McIntyre 27
Ms Margaret Williams 36
Mr. Réne Jacques and Mr. Ken Koekstat 44
Mr. Bruck Easton 49
Mr. Bill Horne 57
Mme Mireille Whissell 63
Ms Marguerite Villamizar 71
Ms Pat Malicki 80
Mr. George Crowell 87
Mr. Richard Langs 94
Mr. Fred Plexman, continued 98
Reply by / Réplique par:
Mr. Bruce Taylor 99
Presentation by / Présentation par:
Mme Mina Grossman-Iani 101
Ms Susan Haig 112
Mr. David Palmer 122
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TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES
PAGE
Reply by / Réplique par:
Mr. Bruce Taylor 126
Presentation by / Présentation par:
Ms Antonia Dominato 127
Ms Jane Cacciavillani 140
Mme Nicole Germain 143
Ms Sarah Trusty and Ms Arlene Traynor 154
Ms Angie Chang, Mr. John Chan and Mr. Emil Nakhle 160
Mr. Paul Rousseau 165
Mr. Peter Wilkinson and Ms Kathy McCrone 172
Mr. Howard Pawley 183
Mr. Jonathan Sachs 192
Ms Sandra Pupatello 195
Mr. Roland Marentette 202
Ms JoAnne Merritt 206
Mr. Paul Hartel 213
Ms Nora McLaren 219
Ms. Kerri Kavanaugh, Ms Summer Turnbull 223
and Ernest Chaisson
Mr. Nicholas Shields 228
Reply by / Réplique par:
Mr. Taylor 230
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TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES
PAGE
Presentation by / Présentation par:
Mr. Corey Tomkimson 233
Reply by / Réplique par:
Mr. Taylor 239
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1 Windsor, Ontario / Windsor (Ontario)
2 --- Upon commencing on Thursday, March 18, 1999
3 at 1300 / L'audience commence le jeudi
4 18 mars 1999 à 1300
5 1 THE CHAIRPERSON: Good afternoon,
6 ladies and gentlemen. My name is Joan Pennefather.
7 I'm a Commissioner with the CRTC. I would like to
8 welcome you to this public consultation on the CBC.
9 2 Thanks to the interests in this
10 community, my colleague Barbara Cram is in the other
11 room receiving an equal number of people this afternoon
12 and this evening, and we thank you for your
13 co-operation.
14 3 As you know --
15 --- Off microphone / Sans microphone
16 4 THE CHAIRPERSON: Sorry?
17 --- Off microphone / Sans microphone
18 5 THE CHAIRPERSON: That's why I did
19 the test.
20 6 Where is our technician? Is he
21 behind me? Okay. I'm notorious for the voice
22 dropping, so thank you for telling me.
23 7 Should I repeat or did we get the
24 gist of it?
25 --- Off microphone / Sans microphone
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1 8 THE CHAIRPERSON: Repeat?
2 9 As I was saying we have such an
3 expression of interest on this public consultation in
4 Windsor that we have separated it into two rooms. My
5 colleague Barbara Cram who is also a Commissioner is
6 hearing an equal group of people this afternoon and
7 this evening in the room adjacent to us.
8 10 My name is Joan Pennefather.
9 11 We are here to gather your views and
10 comments on CBC radio and television.
11 12 In your opinion, how should the
12 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation fulfil its role in
13 the coming years?
14 13 The CBC is a national public service,
15 broadcasting in English as well as in French. It plays
16 an important role in the Canadian Broadcasting system.
17 14 Today, many elements are constantly
18 being added to the broadcasting system as new
19 technologies multiply, converge, open up new horizons
20 and increasingly offer new services. In this context,
21 we want to know what are your needs and expectations as
22 viewers and listeners of the CBC.
23 15 Nous sommes ici pour recueillir vos
24 points de vue et vos commentaires sur la radio et la
25 télévision de Radio-Canada. Comment croyez-vous que
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1 Radio-Canada devrait remplir son rôle dans les années à
2 venir? Voilà le genre de questions auxquelles nous
3 voulons entendre vos réponses.
4 16 Il est très important pour le Conseil
5 d'entendre ce que vous avez à dire à ce sujet. Il ne
6 faut pas oublier que le CRTC est un organisme public au
7 service des citoyens et citoyennes. À ce titre, il a
8 une responsabilité envers eux. C'est pourquoi mes
9 collègues-conseillers et moi-même trouvons essentiel de
10 venir vous rencontrer.
11 17 Nous sommes donc présents dans onze
12 villes canadiennes du 9 au 18 mars inclusivement pour
13 tenir cette série de consultations régionales d'un bout
14 à l'autre du pays.
15 18 As I just said, it is very important
16 that the Commission hears what you have to say. We
17 must not lose sight of the fact that the CRTC is a
18 public organization that serves Canadian citizens. In
19 this capacity, we are responsible to you. This is why
20 my fellow Commissioners and myself find it vital to
21 come and meet with you to discuss these issues and why
22 we are holding this series of regional consultations,
23 from one end of the country to the other, in
24 11 Canadian cities, from March 9 to March 18 inclusive.
25 19 These consultations are designed to
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1 give you a chance, on the eve of the new millennium, to
2 express your opinion on the CBC's role, the programming
3 it offers and the direction it should take at the
4 national, regional and local levels.
5 20 Through these consultations we hope
6 to enter into an open dialogue with you and to hear
7 your concerns. Your comments today will form part of
8 the public record which will be added to the record of
9 the public hearing on the CBC that will begin in Hull
10 next May 25th.
11 21 At this upcoming hearing in May, the
12 Commission will examine the CBC's application for the
13 renewal of its licences including radio, television and
14 its speciality services, Newsworld and Réseau de
15 l'information. You can also take part in that public
16 hearing by sending your written comments to the CRTC.
17 If you wish to do so, please remember to refer to the
18 specific licence renewals being examined when you file
19 your comments.
20 22 Tous vos commentaires feront partie
21 du dossier public. Il sera lui-même ajouté à celui de
22 l'audience publique qui s'ouvrira à Hull le 25 mai
23 prochain. C'est au cours de cette audience que le
24 Conseil étudiera les demandes pour renouveler les
25 licences de radio et de télévision de Radio-Canada
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1 ainsi que de ses services spécialisés.
2 23 Vous pouvez aussi participer à cette
3 audience en faisant parvenir une intervention écrite au
4 CRTC. Vos observations devront alors porter
5 spécifiquement sur le renouvellement des licences en
6 question.
7 24 Now I would like to come to today's
8 consultations.
9 25 As I said at the opening of my
10 remarks, we are in two separate rooms sitting this
11 afternoon until 5:00 or until we hear everyone on the
12 list for this afternoon, and again this evening from
13 6:00 until 10:00.
14 26 I would like to introduce the CRTC
15 staff with me here today. Donald Rhéaume is our legal
16 counsel. Rod Lahay is with my colleague, Madam Cram,
17 in the adjoining room. Please feel free to call on
18 them with any questions you might have about the
19 process today or any other matter.
20 27 So that everyone will have an
21 opportunity to speak, we ask that you please limit your
22 comments to 10 minutes.
23 28 As these consultations are a forum
24 designed especially for you, and we want to listen to
25 as many participants as possible, we will not ask any
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1 questions unless we need clarification.
2 29 Pour que vous ayez tous l'occasion de
3 vous faire entendre, nous vous demandons de limiter
4 votre présentation à 10 minutes. Ces consultations
5 sont votre tribune à vous et nous voulons être à
6 l'écoute du plus grand nombre possible d'intervenants.
7 Nous ne poserons donc pas de questions, sauf si nous
8 avons besoin de clarification.
9 30 Après vos interventions, les
10 représentants des stations locales de Radio-Canada
11 auront également droit de parole puisque ce sont les
12 premières intéressées par les questions que nous
13 abordons aujourd'hui.
14 31 Ladies and gentlemen, at the end of
15 the session, representatives from the local CBC
16 stations will have a chance to offer their views as
17 they are naturally very interested in the issues we are
18 discussing here today.
19 32 Before we start, I would like to turn
20 to legal counsel to go over some housekeeping matters,
21 including how we are going to organize so that I don't
22 spend the entire afternoon with my back to all these
23 fine people behind me here. It's a little awkward, but
24 I'm sure we will manage.
25 33 MR. RHÉAUME: Thank you, Madam Chair.
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1 34 We will be calling presenters in
2 groups of 10, so we invite you to join us at the table
3 and identify yourself for the record.
4 35 Make sure you are in the right room
5 because, as discussed, there are two venues. We have a
6 CRTC staff table and a CRTC member just outside here
7 who is going to point you in the right direction.
8 36 So our first group, we are going to
9 start with: Nataley Nagy, Marguerite Dudley, Margaret
10 Williams, Fred Plexman, Bruck Easton, Priscilla
11 Connolly, Bruce Crozier, Ken Koekstat, Nick Carlan,
12 Paul Poirier McIntyre.
13 37 THE CHAIRPERSON: Could everyone who
14 was named come to the table right away and then we can
15 just go from one participant to the next in this first
16 group of 10 and then probably take a break at that
17 point. Anywhere at the table.
18 38 MR. RHÉAUME: Could you kindly
19 identify yourself for the record, starting with
20 Nataley Nagy.
21 39 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: She is not
22 here.
23 40 MR. RHÉAUME: She is not here. Could
24 she be in the next room? Well, we will come back to
25 Nataley Nagy.
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1 41 Marguerite Dudley.
2 42 MS DUDLEY: Margaret Dudley.
3 43 MR. RHÉAUME: Margaret Dudley. I'm
4 sorry.
5 44 THE CHAIRPERSON: You can start any
6 time you are ready.
7 45 MS DUDLEY: Okay.
8 46 THE CHAIRPERSON: And if you would
9 push the little button on your microphone.
10 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
11 47 MS DUDLEY: I'm an avid listener/
12 watcher. I don't come from any institutional
13 background, but I am moved, just as the fellow in the
14 MacLean's article said, that this is a grassroots
15 appeal and it's really interesting seeing this
16 yesterday in the MacLean's Magazine.
17 48 What I wanted to point out is how I
18 felt about CBC. Okay?
19 49 I want to use the analogy of eye
20 glasses. Up until about a few years ago I used to wear
21 very thick lenses, very thick, and I used to see the
22 world in a very clear way, from the inside out. But
23 when people looked at me through my glasses, they saw
24 lots of little facets of glass and very often they
25 didn't see the real me from that.
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1 50 Looking at the CBC, from me looking
2 out, it's very clear what the CBC does for me. But
3 perhaps you people looking in are looking at all the
4 little facets and perhaps I can express my clear view
5 of the CBC.
6 51 I was called "four eyes" when I was
7 younger because of my glasses, and I'm using that as a
8 way to go about pointing out the aspects of CBC. Four
9 "I"s: "I" for independence, "I" for identity, "I" for
10 immediacy, and "I" for international image.
11 52 The first one "independence". I have
12 to stress that the CBC must remain in the public
13 domain. It is a value for its objectivity to avoid
14 privatization. I really believe that we have to avoid
15 the hidden agendas of multinational corporations or
16 individual media moguls. I think that the CBC has to
17 remain independent from political influence, at the
18 national level and, simultaneously, independent at the
19 local level so that we can relate the big picture to
20 our own community in a very objective way.
21 53 Which gets me to the second "I",
22 which is "identity".
23 54 Essex County is an appendage of
24 Canada. It is the southern most tip. A lot of people
25 refer to it in many different ways, some of them a
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1 little bit negative, but I like to think of us as
2 jutting right into the heart of the northeastern
3 industrialized United States. Because of that, being
4 so -- jutting into a very alien area -- we are
5 surrounded on three sides by media. It's like a
6 hurricane. Sometimes there are radio stations blasting
7 at us from all sides. The CBC is like the eye of the
8 storm.
9 55 For us in Essex County, the CBC gives
10 us the view to the rest of Canada because we only have
11 a certain view. Nearsighted people will look north and
12 see the Detroit skyline and nearsighted people will not
13 look farther north to the rest of Canada, our family.
14 This is why the CBC has to do that for us. It's
15 important that the Windsor CBC station be a window for
16 us to the world, our neighbours to the south, and it is
17 also a window to our own Canadian family.
18 56 And that comes back to something
19 else, because there are some days that I don't want to
20 look at all the facets of Canadian society. I don't
21 have that time. I want to be able to wake up in the
22 morning, get the traffic and get the weather, and I
23 want an immediate response from CBC. That immediacy is
24 necessary at the local level.
25 57 I don't want to listen to all the
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1 weather reports from Quinte, Northumberland, whatever,
2 as is what is happening now with this strike that is
3 going on. I want to know exactly what is happening
4 today. If there is a meningitis epidemic in a
5 neighbouring town, I want the information now,
6 immediately on CBC. I don't want to listen to a whole
7 myriad of aspects from Toronto. We must have local
8 broadcasts and it has to be integrated, radio and TV.
9 I believe our station here is doing that very well.
10 58 The fourth "I" is international
11 image. I had a colleague, a friend of mine, who
12 lectured throughout North America. She always told me
13 that she made a point, when she was in this listening
14 area, to listen to As It Happens because she valued the
15 kind of coverage, that international image to the
16 world, the window to the world that a lot of American
17 stations didn't have.
18 59 CBC has excellence. There is
19 international image with David Suzuki, Peter Gzowski.
20 These are the people that if they were in another
21 country, and you know which, they would be exalted.
22 They would be given much more status, much more money
23 for the value that they do. They are the undersung
24 heroes of CBC.
25 60 As a final thought, there is another
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1 "I", and that is "integration". I really believe that
2 in order for us to go into the new millennium, there is
3 going to have to be integration of radio, TV,
4 Radio-Canada and English Canada in order for us to go
5 into the next millennium. The CBC plays a strong and
6 important role in that.
7 61 Thank you.
8 62 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
9 much, Ms Dudley.
10 63 We will go on to our next
11 participant.
12 64 MR. RHÉAUME: Margaret Williams. Is
13 Margaret Williams in the room? We will come back
14 later.
15 65 Mr. Fred Plexman.
16 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
17 66 MR. PLEXMAN: Good afternoon.
18 67 My name is Fred Plexman. I'm here to
19 speak as an individual. I am not associated with any
20 group.
21 68 My topknot may not be quite as long
22 as yours because I have just written down some very
23 short notes.
24 69 CBC radio has been very important in
25 my life. I have been listening to these stations in
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1 one way or another since I was a child growing up in
2 Sudbury. It is more important to me now than it ever
3 has been, seeing as it is the only station in this area
4 that we do not get bombarded with U.S. news.
5 70 It's important that we have this
6 Canadian presence. In fact, we do hear comments
7 periodically that the Americans listen to CBC because
8 it is a good station. This keeps me in touch with
9 Canadian news, local, regional and national. We also
10 get international coverage, which I don't believe is as
11 biased as we get from other areas.
12 71 It's unfortunate the present strike
13 is cutting some of the coverage we get. I do miss the
14 5:30 CBC evening news on the television station. It is
15 the one thing that I regularly watch on CBC TV.
16 72 When my wife and I travel up to our
17 camp north of Sudbury, we turn on the radio and we
18 switch from station to station to keep CBC on the
19 radio. It's important to us we don't miss the
20 programming we like. It is continuous. We can pick it
21 up across the country. When we do get to the camp, the
22 radio is tuned to the Sudbury CBC stations so we don't
23 miss the programs we normally listen to.
24 73 Thank you.
25 74 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
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1 Mr. Plexman. We appreciate your being here. We were
2 just in Sudbury the other day so we are following --
3 75 MR. PLEXMAN: I have heard something
4 about this.
5 76 THE CHAIRPERSON: Good.
6 77 We will go on to our next
7 participant.
8 78 MR. RHÉAUME: Mr. Bruck Easton,
9 please step forward.
10 79 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He is not
11 here.
12 80 MR. RHÉAUME: He is not here?
13 81 Welcome back.
14 82 Priscilla Connolly.
15 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
16 83 MS CONNOLLY: I'm going to read my
17 presentation in case I lose my train of thought.
18 84 I am here today because the CBC is
19 very important to me personally and also of special
20 importance to this part of the country. Being a border
21 city, we are subjected to massive amounts of American
22 media and it is essential that we maintain a Canadian
23 presence and a strong voice in this area.
24 85 Where else can we tune into such
25 programs as Ideas, Tapestry, As It Happens, Cross
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1 Country Check-up, not to mention This Week In
2 Parliament on Sunday mornings? We do not get this type
3 of programming from any other source. On CBC Radio Two
4 we have a variety of classical music programs and also
5 opera. Since the demise of WQRS, there does not seem
6 to be any other source of classical music in this area.
7 86 I am more of a radio listener than a
8 TV watcher, but I do depend on the CBC for newscasts,
9 both national and local. I would like to stress that I
10 think the local news is very well covered by excellent
11 reporters.
12 87 The regional news reports on
13 Newsworld give us a snapshot view of what is happening
14 and the concerns of people in other parts of our large
15 country and so give us some sense of being part of a
16 larger whole.
17 88 The budget cutbacks have already had
18 a severe effect on programming, both in content and
19 presentation. If the CBC is to fulfil its mandate, it
20 is essential that the government be persuaded that the
21 people both want and are behind the CBC and that budget
22 cuts must stop. On the CBC's part, it is imperative
23 that they keep up the quality of their programs so that
24 the listeners and watchers will feel that their loyalty
25 is deserved.
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1 89 The closing of so many overseas
2 bureaus, the latest being Paris and South Africa, does
3 not seem to me to be the way to keep up the quality I
4 mentioned. There must be other places where economies
5 could be made with less drastic results. This trend is
6 most disturbing.
7 90 The present strike of technicians has
8 brought home to me very forcibly how much I depend on
9 our local programming and how bereft I feel without the
10 5:30 and 11:30 channel 9 news. Thank goodness for The
11 Morning Show. They do their very best with limited
12 resources.
13 91 In closing, I would appeal to the
14 government to stop the cutbacks. Stop clipping the
15 wings of the CBC and realize that people such as myself
16 want the CBC not only to continue but to grow.
17 92 Thank you.
18 93 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
19 much, Mrs. Connolly.
20 94 As I mentioned at the beginning, a
21 lack of questions does not mean lack of interest. We
22 are more concerned to hear what you have to say in
23 these sessions, and there are many people to speak. So
24 we will proceed without the questions, but please don't
25 take that as a lack of interest.
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1 95 Our next speaker.
2 96 MR. RHÉAUME: Mr. Bruce Crozier.
3 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
4 97 MR. CROZIER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
5 98 I want to thank the Commission for
6 coming to Windsor and Essex county and I want to thank
7 you for allowing us the time to address you today.
8 99 Windsor and Essex County, if you
9 don't already know, is the sun parlour of Canada, or is
10 known as such, and it borders on the tomato capital of
11 Canada. While I'm here supporting the CBC, I have to
12 get that in as well.
13 100 Although, I am the member of
14 provincial parliament for Essex South, I'm appearing as
15 much today as a private citizen and a long-time
16 listener to the CBC.
17 101 I have been an avid CBC viewer and
18 listener for many years. Due to the limited time that
19 we have today and the opportunity we want to give to
20 everyone to speak to you, I will confine my comments to
21 CBC radio in hopes that others will address their
22 remarks to the television.
23 102 I am unilingual, at least at this
24 point in my life, but I appreciate the value of the
25 French network Radio-Canada and support its existence.
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1 103 To the question of how well does the
2 CBC fulfil its role as the national public broadcaster,
3 I want to give you a few examples of how I feel it does
4 fulfil that role.
5 104 I think of programs such as As It
6 Happens with Mary Lou Finlay and Barbara Budd, Cross
7 Country Check-up with Rex Murphy, The House with Jason
8 Moscovitz and This Morning with Averil Benoit and
9 Michael Enright. Over time, things will change, but I
10 think these are examples of both national and regional
11 programming that make CBC radio what it is.
12 105 To the question of the new
13 millennium.
14 106 Over time of course things will
15 change. In the new millennium, will we be different on
16 January 1st, 2000? I think not. Will we be any
17 different in June of the Year 2000? Maybe. But
18 certainly in June of 2010 we will have changed a great
19 deal and I would hope that the CBC, as it has in the
20 past, will continue to change with the times.
21 107 How well does the CBC serve the
22 public on a regional as well as a national level? I
23 think again of those programs that are produced
24 locally: Morning Watch, which covers Windsor, Essex
25 County, Sarnia and Chatham-Kent with business news,
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1 finance news, particularly news about the auto industry
2 and municipal affairs; Crosstown is an afternoon
3 program that's normally produced in this area,
4 notwithstanding any minor inconveniences that we may
5 suffer at the present time, but that also covers a
6 range of entertainment issues in the area and has a
7 variety of programming that serves us on a regional
8 basis.
9 108 If there is one suggestion I could
10 make, it would be -- and I may have a vested interest
11 in this -- that there be a provincial program similar
12 to The House, because that covers federal issues. It
13 would have a provincial perspective, one that perhaps
14 in each of our regions of the country could involve the
15 provincial legislatures in their area.
16 "Should the programming provided
17 by CBC radio and television be
18 different from that provided by
19 other broadcasters? If so, what
20 should the differences be?"
21 (As read)
22 109 I think that CBC must maintain the
23 distinction between public and private broadcasting.
24 Private broadcasting, to me, is the commercial venue
25 and they then have to satisfy certain commercial
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1 interests.
2 110 It was mentioned earlier today,
3 earlier at this session, of the control, I believe, of
4 some of the media in this country. I think in
5 particular of the print media. I believe that we
6 somehow have to have that national and local
7 perspective that is not necessarily controlled by
8 private interests and for commercial reasons.
9 111 It is difficult for the CBC, because
10 they want to maintain that special Canadian
11 programming, but the CBC should be almost exclusively
12 Canadian in its programming. That is not to say that
13 programming from other countries may not be used, but I
14 think it always must be used in the context which
15 applies to Canada.
16 112 This is difficult I know because it
17 is publicly funded and publicly funded programs -- in
18 the broad sense of programs, anything that is publicly
19 funded has to be very careful of how it serves the
20 public. The CBC, of course, its budget is controlled
21 by the government of the day and to the extent that the
22 CBC can, I think it must maintain independence and I
23 encourage the federal government to provide stable and
24 adequate funding for the CBC.
25 113 In conclusion, I would like to
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1 emphasize that, in my view, the CBC should continue to
2 play an important and unique role in North America, and
3 for that matter in broadcasting in the world.
4 114 We are a border city here. We are
5 influenced a great deal by the United States. In fact,
6 a little known fact may be that if you go on the
7 cardinal points of the compass 200 miles in any
8 direction from where you are sitting now you would be
9 in the United States. North you would be in Michigan,
10 west you would be in Illinois, south you would be in
11 Ohio and on the east you would be in -- and I'm not
12 sure, but New York State or Pennsylvania. So we are
13 very unique here in that we are surrounded by the
14 United States. We need the CBC.
15 115 Opinions may vary, but in my view the
16 CBC presents quality, balanced Canadian programming and
17 it should build on an outstanding history for the
18 future.
19 116 Thank you.
20 117 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
21 much, Mr. Crozier. Thank you for being here today.
22 118 Our next participant.
23 119 MR. RHÉAUME: Senior Constable Ken
24 Koekstat. Not here.
25 120 Mr. Nick Carlan.
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1 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
2 121 MR. CARLAN: Thank you very much.
3 Good afternoon to the Commissioners. I will read most
4 of my thoughts and I will add to them later.
5 122 In response to your first inquiry,
6 "Does the CBC fulfil its role as a national public
7 broadcaster", I feel very strong, along with my family
8 members, that the CBC has performed extremely well and
9 we are very appreciative of it and the continued future
10 of the CBC.
11 123 We enjoy the TV radio programs. As I
12 am retired, we have a lasting -- excuse me. I have my
13 sentences mixed here.
14 124 We do feel, in my case, our mornings
15 are filled with the Morningside. At one time, Max
16 Ferguson -- I don't know if you remember him?
17 125 THE CHAIRPERSON: I do.
18 126 MR. CARLAN: You do. And
19 Peter Gzowski and Michael Enright. So we have a full
20 morning which we enjoy thoroughly. As a retired
21 person, that means a lot to many of us.
22 127 We are kept informed each half hour
23 during the afternoon by Bob Bishop and Tommy Aubin(ph)
24 with the news breaks that come about, and which you
25 spoke about. We feel very good about that as because
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1 of the news breaks we have that news information.
2 128 The programs are very adequate and
3 there is no reason to change them, we don't think, I
4 don't think. They fulfil my needs as far as a TV and
5 radio listener.
6 129 We feel that the content and the
7 delivery are very, very good. They are very
8 entertaining. There are human interest stories which
9 are brought about during the day, without a strike,
10 say, you know.
11 130 We can suggest that appealing to the
12 younger people, that the CBC would try to attract
13 younger people to listen to the CBC in whatever plans
14 they would have. I understand that there is a big
15 group between 20 years of age and 49. They are a major
16 part of the population in that the CBC can consider
17 targeting or focusing on those people.
18 131 Sometimes I visit my friends and if
19 they are not listening to CBC I leave because I want to
20 listen to the CBC, so they turn it on. I will not stay
21 where there is no CBC news radio.
22 --- Laughter / Rires
23 132 MR. CARLAN: Pardon me?
24 --- Laughter / Rires
25 133 MR. CARLAN: I say "Turn it on 17
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1 or 9 or I'm gone."
2 --- Laughter / Rires
3 134 MR. CARLAN: The CBC has always had
4 or been a major symbol of being a proud Canadian. It
5 has a spirit and a body. Look around. We are an
6 institution of Canadians and again to say the CBC is
7 the main ingredient of being a proud Canadian.
8 135 We do have the art gallery, the
9 symphony, the local theatres and sports events; but I
10 think the CBC pulls all that together, and I can truly
11 say that I'm Canadian rather than an American, because
12 we live so close.
13 136 The CBC has been a different source
14 of communication. It does not verge on mind control.
15 That's happening on some TV programs at the moment.
16 The bombardment of political ads are too much. I think
17 they are excessive and there should be some control or
18 a code of some kind. But I don't feel that I should be
19 propagandized by stations, as Mr. Crozier said, who
20 have a commercial agenda. Therefore, that strengthens
21 my belief in the CBC as being a more neutral
22 communicator.
23 137 I feel that the CBC has been brave
24 and proud, both. I can remember a report on a town
25 hall meeting and Mr. Chrétien was very upset with some
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1 of the programming, but I thought that the CBC was very
2 brave at that time. Even in spite of his utterances,
3 the CBC stuck with the story.
4 138 The CBC should not be threatened. It
5 should have a free functioning of their operation. It
6 should not be subject to financial threats. It has to
7 be truly a free communicator to the people. I realize
8 that this is asking a lot for the people that run the
9 CBC, but that has to be done in order that that be a
10 viable organization in the future.
11 139 I don't know if you know Windsor at
12 all. A little, do you?
13 140 THE CHAIRPERSON: A little and I must
14 confess my father grew up here.
15 141 MR. CARLAN: Pardon me?
16 142 THE CHAIRPERSON: My dad grew up
17 here.
18 143 MR. CARLAN: Oh, I see. Okay.
19 That's fine.
20 144 Because not only do we produce good
21 television, we produce good producers and journalists
22 such as Costi Veragus(ph), Carol McNeil,
23 Sue Prestage(ph), Eric Sorensen. It goes on and on. I
24 don't know what Toronto would do without Windsor.
25 --- Laughter / Rires
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1 145 MR. CARLAN: So it is very important
2 that we are at the -- our metropolitan population --
3 this is from the Financial Post, by the way, our
4 population is it 280,000. It is going to be in the
5 year 2002 over 300,000. So The Star suggested that
6 maybe the CBC was on demise, but I think that you
7 should look forward to expanding the facilities of the
8 CBC because our population is expanding.
9 146 Also, there is some data on the TV
10 stations and CBC ranks very, very high. It ranks at
11 49 per cent. I'm just not too sure of the reading of
12 these surveys, you know, but if you would like a copy
13 of this I will leave this with you. So there is no
14 reduction of audience.
15 147 Percy Hatfield is here. He mentioned
16 to me about the strike or the rally of 1990. We had
17 over 10,000 people at that rally and the CBC was closed
18 for four years. I think everyone here would remember
19 that vacuum. It was terrible. You know, when you want
20 the news and you have to turn on an American station.
21 This gives you a very empty feeling.
22 148 But the man that closed the CBC down
23 is now living in New York. So maybe if you want to put
24 this down: the man that intends to do anything with
25 the CBC here might end up in Newfoundland or wherever.
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1 --- Laughter / Rires
2 149 MR. CARLAN: So we urge your
3 Commission to take our message back to -- I guess you
4 have a May meeting, that there is no weak links with
5 the community and CBC. We are very strong, we have a
6 future ahead of us, and the CBC has made us truly proud
7 Canadians.
8 150 Thank you very much.
9 151 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
10 much, Mr. Carlan.
11 152 Our next participant.
12 153 MR. RHÉAUME: Mr. Paul
13 Poirier McIntyre.
14 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
15 154 MR. McINTYRE: Thank you,
16 Madam Chairman.
17 155 People know me here as Paul McIntyre.
18 I put my middle name in to remind me to say that my
19 grandfather came from the Gaspé, so I have some claim
20 perhaps to both sides of our country.
21 156 I think I would like to begin with a
22 little gloss on something the previous speaker said.
23 157 Every time I see Peter Jennings on
24 the nightly news, I'm reminded how much the American
25 networks are indebted to the CBC, for that's where he
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1 learned and many others learned their trade.
2 158 I'm a Canadian by birth and I have
3 lived in Windsor since 1970. Until two years ago, I
4 was a professor of music at the University of Windsor.
5 I try to continue to be active as a musician,
6 especially as a composer. I mention that because I
7 want to say something about that later.
8 159 I want to try to organize myself in
9 three -- before I even say that, I want to recommend to
10 the Commissioners the editorial in today's Windsor Star
11 which welcomes you to Windsor and has quite a bit to
12 say. I agree with a very large part of it. I do not
13 wish to be associated with the hint that perhaps the
14 CRTC should put itself out of business, which was the
15 last sentence in the editorial. I might have one or
16 two other comments later, but I think there is a lot of
17 valuable suggestion there for you.
18 160 So I would like to try to organize
19 myself into three different categories here in
20 10 minutes. I would like to make one or two -- and
21 these are all my own personal views -- one or two
22 comments about the CBC generally; I would like to say
23 one or two things about our local situation here with
24 regard to the CBC, and that has been referred to in
25 several different ways; and I want to say a couple of
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1 things from the point of view that I'm a composer.
2 161 So the CBC generally. I think the
3 first thing I want to say is we absolutely must have
4 either the CBC or something that fulfils the same
5 functions for us.
6 162 I was looking in a pocket atlas the
7 other day and discovered that until recently Canada was
8 one of the three largest geopolitical units in the
9 world, the other two being of course the Soviet Union,
10 which is no longer there, and China. Now, the Soviet
11 Union and China hold themselves together by methods
12 that are largely unworkable in a democracy. We hold
13 the country together very heavily by electronics.
14 Somebody has to pay for the electronics, and at the
15 moment it is the government but the government seems to
16 be having difficulties.
17 163 Which brings me to my second point
18 about the CBC generally. I may appear to be wanting to
19 toss at somebody one of the products of the tomato
20 capital of Canada but I'm not sure where the missile
21 belongs exactly, so what I will say is there are two
22 givens here. There is the given of the continuing and
23 very severe government cuts, and there is the other
24 given which is perhaps in the rumour that accuses the
25 CBC in some of its news coverage of being unfair.
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1 164 If this is true, if the government
2 has no other means to deal with unfairness in the news
3 coverage of the government than to turn off the taps
4 and close the ship down, then I think we have a very
5 serious problem of management, and I don't want to say
6 anything more about it.
7 165 I mean, I appreciate and I support
8 the notion that the CBC has to be independent
9 politically, but at the same time, well, forgive me, if
10 the Emperor is paying your salary indirectly or
11 directly, it isn't a very good idea to indulge in
12 criticism of his clothes. That's my view of the thing,
13 but I realize it's a very complicated question.
14 166 Now, having tossed my missile in, may
15 I go to the place of the CBC in this community as I
16 have experienced it over the last nearly 30 years.
17 167 Reference was made a few moments ago
18 to the closure of the local CBC outlet for four years
19 beginning in 1990. The local understanding was, to
20 make matters worse, that the reason behind this was a
21 purely political thing, that it had nothing really to
22 do with quality or anything else. If you want me to
23 enlarge on that, I would be glad to, and I don't want
24 to sound like an elephant with a long memory.
25 168 The fact remains that even after the
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1 restoration of the news broadcasts, in my personal
2 view, the quality has never returned to the level that
3 it was before. I think this is all very important
4 because I think that the local CBC outlet, and this has
5 been said in various ways, is one of the most important
6 functions, one of the most important means that we have
7 of holding the community together.
8 169 If we want to know what is going on
9 in the community, we are more likely to look for the
10 answer on television on a day-to-day basis. We will
11 find it, yes, in the Windsor Star, but we will find it
12 in a more immediate and perhaps more contemporary way
13 on television. If that is being impeded, I think it's
14 too bad and I think the CBC is not fulfilling for us
15 one of its primary functions.
16 170 But there is another angle to all of
17 this, and it is hinted at in the editorial today.
18 Fine, when we do have local news back, when the strike
19 is over, it will probably be again at 5:30 in the
20 afternoon, which is a little bit early for most people
21 coming home from work and to supper. Then we are
22 treated to a whole hour of local news from Toronto,
23 which is all very well as long as Toronto is talking
24 about provincial matters and less interesting when
25 Toronto begins talking about some local school board
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1 election or something like that. I question whether it
2 has to be a full hour. Then of course we have no news
3 until ten o'clock when we have The National followed by
4 The Magazine and then, presumably, we could have our
5 own look at the community at 11:00. No, we have to see
6 The National again. This one puzzles me completely. I
7 don't know why that should be, but I want to toss it in
8 there and let you consider that little problem.
9 171 Another comment on the local scene,
10 and this is something that I have never seen anybody
11 address. It has been said that within an hour of where
12 we sit there are about 12 million people, and we can
13 get their broadcasts. We can pull in Toledo very
14 nicely in South Windsor. Why has somebody not thought
15 about using the Windsor outlets, both radio and
16 television, as a means of communicating what is going
17 on in this country more fully to these other people?
18 I'm talking now missionary, I'm talking international
19 service, I'm talking culture as international trade
20 stimulation, et cetera, et cetera. I think somebody is
21 missing an opportunity there. That 12 million people
22 is equal to about a third of the total population in
23 this country and it is, as has been said, a very active
24 and rich part of that other country that we don't
25 mention.
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1 172 Now, my third category, I want to say
2 something which has nothing really to do with Windsor.
3 173 There are a lot of composers in this
4 country. The last time I counted, there were 200
5 members of the Canadian League of Composers. I know it
6 has gone way up since I last looked. It may be double
7 that. We have produced an enormous amount of music and
8 it is good music. Yes, the CBC has been very helpful
9 to us over the years in various and sundry ways, going
10 all the way back to the international service
11 recordings of the thirties and forties and fifties,
12 which were disseminated around the world. There was a
13 sort of crystallization of this relationship with the
14 CBC and composers in the seventies which -- the content
15 laws, the Canadian content guidelines.
16 174 Now, what is puzzling me, and I only
17 cite an example here, the CBC as we know has also a
18 recording wing; they make records.
19 175 Now, the other year, one of these
20 recordings came out which interested me very much. It
21 was a recording by a singer, an opera and concert
22 singer from Winnipeg by the name of Edith Viens who has
23 an international career, and wonderful. She made a
24 very beautiful recording, there was a very beautiful
25 accompanist. What was the music she recorded? It was
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1 songs of Richard Strauss, who was one of the greatest
2 composers of the twentieth century, but he is also one
3 of the most overrecorded, if anything, composers of the
4 twentieth century and, as you may have guessed by now
5 if you didn't know already, a German composer. I have
6 nothing against that, but I haven't yet figured out why
7 the CBC is going to all this trouble to record the
8 music of a German composer who is already overrecorded.
9 176 It has been suggested to me that one
10 of the reasons was so that the CBC could then broadcast
11 Strauss songs, which are beautiful and everybody loves
12 them who knows them, and call it Canadian content
13 because the singer is Canadian, which I suggest is
14 perfectly legitimate within the guidelines as they are,
15 but I am tempted to say maybe it is time to review the
16 guidelines if the CBC is skating around a kind of hole
17 in the ice there.
18 177 I think I have probably exceeded my
19 10 minutes. I thank you, Madam Chairman, for your
20 patience.
21 178 THE CHAIRPERSON: You are just on the
22 mark, Mr. McIntyre. Well timed, as it should be for a
23 musician.
24 179 Thank you very much.
25 180 I think what we will do is go through
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1 the --
2 181 MR. CARLAN: Madam Chair,
3 Margaret Williams is here now.
4 182 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes. You are ahead
5 of me there, Mr. Carlan. We had you earlier, and if
6 you would like to join us at the table, Margaret.
7 183 We also had Bruck Easton,
8 Nataley Nagy.
9 --- Off microphone / Sans microphone
10 184 THE CHAIRPERSON: Sergeant Constable,
11 could you come to the table?
12 185 For those who just joined us, we were
13 working in groups of 10 and you were part of the
14 first 10.
15 --- Pause / Pause
16 186 THE CHAIRPERSON: If you could say
17 who you are for the record as you begin to speak and
18 who is with you this afternoon.
19 187 Ms Dudley just noted that she would
20 like to add a comment or two. I think we will hear the
21 other speakers and then I'm watching my small but
22 effective timepiece and see how we are doing with time
23 after.
24 188 So if I could ask Margaret Williams.
25 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
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1 189 MS WILLIAMS: My name is
2 Margaret Williams and I'm Windsor City Councillor. Our
3 Mayor, Michael Hurst, regrets that he is unable to be
4 here today in person. He is sunning himself in
5 Florida, but he asked me to convey his regrets, and
6 also would like to welcome you to the City of Windsor,
7 Canada's southern most city.
8 190 Let me say at the outset that the
9 City of Windsor strongly endorses the renewal of CBC
10 licences.
11 191 There was a late change of venue for
12 this hearing from the Caboto Club to the Hilton Hotel.
13 I must say that we are delighted with this change. In
14 the city's many appearances before this Commission, and
15 I appeared last year before the Commission in London,
16 Ontario, it has never been possible to truly explain
17 the unique nature of Windsor, its needs, its concerns
18 and its challenges.
19 192 Now the Commission is on our
20 doorstep, so take a good look around. Just out in the
21 street in front, one cold December a few years ago,
22 8,000 Windsor and area citizens demonstrated for the
23 resumption of the local TV CBC news. Fifty-seven
24 thousand people in the space of two weeks signed a
25 petition to request restoration of service. We doubt
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1 this expression of the need for the CBC and for its
2 local service could have happened anywhere else in
3 Canada.
4 193 In its time, the Commission has heard
5 many a protest to permit more and more American
6 services. Here was a much larger instance of protest.
7 It was a case of Canadians vehemently demanding at
8 least some kind of parity with other Canadians in
9 receiving full local television service.
10 194 Since that time, a number of events
11 have happened. The CBC partially restored its service
12 to more than half of its former offering. CHWI
13 television came on the scene with 10 hours a week of
14 local Windsor news and affairs, material gathered by a
15 staff in Windsor which is assembled and presented from
16 CHUM's CFPL London studio, and certainly a situation
17 much improved from five years ago.
18 195 But what we want to share with you
19 now has much to do with the view from the front of this
20 hotel. Metropolitan Detroit, twice the size of
21 Toronto, overwhelms us with its media presence.
22 Something like 54 radio and 14 TV stations converge in
23 this area. We are awash in U.S. media, as you well
24 see. Those concerned demonstrators were people who
25 love this country, wish to participate fully in it and
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1 want their children to grow up as real Canadians.
2 196 What brought the demonstrators out
3 into the street below was the huge sense of loss, of
4 abandonment in our desire to retain our Canadianism.
5 Not just our national identity was at stake, our sense
6 of community was threatened. Let me try to explain why
7 this was so important.
8 197 Many things in the administration and
9 development of a community can only happen in the
10 presence of informed and participating citizens.
11 Without any local TV news and public affairs, a growing
12 apathy was noticed. New initiatives were more
13 difficult to present and to engender support.
14 198 Now when you see the skyscrapers
15 across the water, you should know that Windsor has
16 finally achieved its decades' old dream of securing for
17 its public an uninterrupted three-mile stretch of
18 waterfront park from the Ambassador Bridge to the Hiram
19 Walker distillery. The area to the west of this hotel
20 will be redeveloped and the new Windsor Art Gallery
21 will be built. Plans for other major developments are
22 near fruition, such as for a new arena and
23 entertainment centre. It is impossible to say how much
24 the restoration of TV services has contributed, but it
25 has been significant.
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1 199 So in terms of the questions for
2 which the Commission invited comments, we are most
3 definite that the local and regional aspects of CBC
4 radio and television are vital to us. We would suggest
5 that they are also vital to the CBC.
6 200 One of the most obvious effects when
7 the CBC removed local service was the devastating
8 result to the rest of the CBC's overall ratings.
9 Strong local programming, two hours every week day, had
10 built a large following that stayed for the prime time
11 network programming. The economic havoc caused by
12 adopting the regional format, meaning from Toronto,
13 probably far outweighed the savings from reduced
14 services.
15 201 Worst still, was the impossibility of
16 the CBC in competing significantly for the hearts and
17 minds of Canadians when stripped of its grassroots
18 support. There cannot be a clearer demonstration of
19 the vital importance of a strong local presence. This
20 is a unique capability which binds communities, can
21 then bind regions and combine a nation.
22 202 While many have indicated local
23 broadcasting is an expensive impediment to efficient
24 use of the CBC's scarce dollars, the danger is that if
25 the CBC gives up its grassroots support it will become
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1 so marginalized as to become insignificant and
2 inconsequential in Canadian affairs. The proof of this
3 was demonstrated in Windsor.
4 203 In spite of the overwhelming media
5 spillover, Windsor radio and TV broadcasters do secure
6 a local audience. Due to the difficulties of this
7 market, the Commission has made many special
8 concessions to maintain the viability of private radio
9 in a community. In doing so, there is an added need
10 that the Commission ensures that it strengthens the
11 Canadian elements in broadcasting in Windsor.
12 204 In particular, it should be noted
13 that in 1975, when the Commission ordered the private
14 broadcaster to relinquish control of the television
15 station to the CBC, the CBC made promises to maintain
16 and improve on the local TV programming which was
17 already in place. Because of this special contract, if
18 you will, Windsor should receive special support from
19 the CBC to maintain services more comparable to other
20 centres of similar size, especially since the CBC
21 formally committed itself to undertake that role in
22 order to secure the licence.
23 205 Another interest of the Commission is
24 the role of the CBC in the new millennium. Very
25 definitely the CBC must embrace the newer technologies
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1 and it must be funded to do so. Simply ending local
2 services is not the answer. One of the most important
3 messages Windsor brings to the Commission is an
4 indication of what a multichannel future can bring to
5 the rest of Canada.
6 206 Windsor stands as a warning, if you
7 like, a made-for-television case study of the problems
8 posed when Canadian content drowns in a plethora of
9 choice. Given the ease in Windsor of securing a U.S.
10 direct broadcast satellite receiver, it is remarkable
11 how relatively few there actually seem to be. This is
12 probably an indication of the need for local and
13 Canadian programming, particularly when much of this is
14 only obtainable through cable, and in many parts of the
15 county actually is not even available through cable.
16 207 A few years ago, at the time of the
17 structural framework hearings, we reported a number of
18 research findings concerning the impact of local media
19 in Ontario with specific reference to Windsor and the
20 detrimental effects on political participation and on
21 the sense of community. At this moment, Windsor's City
22 Centre Revitalization Task Force is analysing the data
23 from its in depth survey of 804 citizens of Windsor and
24 the adjacent communities. Indications are that a
25 significantly greater number of people now identify
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1 local broadcast news with Windsor stations and not
2 Detroit ones.
3 208 While CBC radio didn't have the
4 numbers that CBC television achieved, it certainly was
5 identified with the most educated and with those who
6 most participated in community. There was also a
7 direct correlation to voting behaviour. We hope to
8 share this research in our formal intervention.
9 209 CBC radio and television are integral
10 parts of this community, playing an active role in
11 enhancing the quality of life. Through getting out
12 into the community, providing media sponsorship of
13 cultural events and reflecting the community itself,
14 they enrich our lives. In spite of its huge size,
15 Detroit no longer has a quality classical music
16 station, radio station, because the economics simply
17 couldn't support it. We are fortunate in having the
18 CBC, and so are our Detroit neighbours.
19 210 Yes, the situation is much improved
20 from five years ago, yet we think improvements should
21 be made. From Friday night to Monday morning nothing
22 happens. There is no local live reporting on weekends.
23 There are still no local programs produced in areas
24 other than news and public affairs. But I have to say
25 that emergency warning services have improved greatly
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1 in the last year. We hope we don't need to use that
2 too often.
3 211 At a time in our history when unity
4 and identity are consuming issues, it is discouraging
5 to think that the broadcast media concerns of Windsor,
6 which require a strong and even strengthened CBC local
7 presence, may be jeopardized. Certainly more and
8 better national programs are most desirable. But for
9 those of us here who can see across the river, we know
10 that the strong Canadian content we want must be
11 supported by strong local radio and TV services that
12 only the CBC can provide in this area.
13 212 With specific reference to your
14 questions.
15 213 The CBC is vital to Canadian life as
16 a national broadcaster. In the new millennium, in the
17 face of ever-prolifering program choices, the CBC must
18 strengthen its local and regional grasp of the
19 audiences, embracing the new technologies such as the
20 Internet to further this goal.
21 214 In a world according to the Disney
22 Corporation, where our literature is reversioned, our
23 heroes forgotten or spun off into toy store action
24 figures, we must have a CBC which can tell our story.
25 As our few magazines become victims of split run
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1 economics, as commercial media interest gain entry into
2 our classrooms, we must have our voice.
3 215 The question posed Saturday in the
4 Globe and Mail was: Should the CBC be big or should it
5 be good? If we treasure Canada, it must be both.
6 216 Thank you for your kind attention,
7 Ms Pennefather.
8 217 I have some copies.
9 218 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
10 much. We would appreciate it.
11 219 If anybody is able to leave a copy of
12 your remarks with us, that would be great, although we
13 are of course putting this on the public record.
14 220 Thank you, Ms Williams, very much.
15 221 Could I ask the gentleman now, Senior
16 Constable Ken Koekstat -- am I saying that properly?
17 222 MR. KOEKSTAT: That's correct.
18 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
19 223 MR. KOEKSTAT: I would like to take
20 this opportunity to, as when I spoke to your office
21 with Crime Stoppers, we have our Chairperson,
22 Mr. Réne Jacques -- and that is J-A-C-Q-U-E-S -- and
23 they indicated to us that we would be able to share the
24 time. So I would introduce Réne at this time.
25 224 MR. JACQUES: Hello, Madam Chair,
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1 other guests.
2 225 As you may or may not know, Crime
3 Stoppers is a partnerships which includes the media,
4 police and the public. It operates in most of the
5 major cities within Canada and the United States.
6 226 In order for our program to be
7 successful, this has to be a working partnership that
8 allows us to get our message out. The CBC in Windsor
9 provides us with that opportunity.
10 227 However, since the TV station has
11 been restricted with the amount of programming that it
12 is able to provide to the Windsor residents, we haven't
13 been able to have the same type of coverage on a TV
14 type format that we had previous to that.
15 228 We would hope that you would be
16 looking more local content and expanding airtime within
17 the community to provide the Canadian citizens with
18 quality content and programming on the local level that
19 would enable us to do a better job at what we do, and
20 that's putting criminals behind bars.
21 229 On the other side of the coin, there
22 is the CBC radio which we do work with weekly. Ken
23 will probably talk about that.
24 230 CBC is one of a number of stations
25 within the Windsor area -- two major stations actually
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1 I guess, and each has their own following. We feel it
2 necessary that both of those continue to operate so
3 that we can get to everyone who is in the community.
4 We have to provide them with not just information about
5 what it is that we are seeking from them in the form of
6 tips, but also to be able to let them know how
7 successful we are. Without the CBC we wouldn't be able
8 to do that.
9 231 I will let Ken comment on some of the
10 activities that he is involved in directly with them.
11 232 MR. KOEKSTAT: Well, the reason I was
12 kind enough to let Réne go first is that I usually run
13 a little long, and I know that this is a very
14 structured format.
15 233 On a personal note, getting out and
16 about in the community, I make over 100 personal
17 appearances at service clubs, church groups, schools
18 and organizations. I guess in doing so, in my role as
19 Crime Stopper Co-ordinator, I get to meet a lot of
20 people and also I play in a band part time. I am a
21 musician, and I guess it's part time when I do about
22 62 weekends a year in a 52-week format, so I usually
23 run into 200 or 300 people per weekend.
24 234 In my personal life, I get over to
25 Detroit to concerts, music stores, autographs shows and
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1 various events. It's just unbelievable the amount of
2 people that do listen to CBC. In the classical format
3 you can't go to a harmony house in Michigan and not run
4 into somebody that isn't listening to the station and
5 enjoying the music.
6 235 In regards to Crime Stoppers and
7 events, we are very pro-community and one of our
8 partners is the media. Having people come up and
9 recognize you just by your voice when you haven't even
10 been introduced to people would indicate the impact
11 that that has in the community.
12 236 When we are out and about, whether it
13 be with our Crime Stopper van or one of our fundraising
14 projects, I'm sure -- we have already won the best
15 program in Ontario two years running against other
16 cities in stature as London, Hamilton, Kitchener and
17 Toronto with three million people, and it is definitely
18 due to the fact that we are getting the message out
19 through Paul Vassey(ph) and Morning Watch and that
20 source of media.
21 237 There are so many events going on and
22 I have had people come and ask me, little old me, just
23 a fellow that lives on Elm Street in Windsor, coming
24 and asking me, "How come there isn't any coverage? Why
25 isn't there any news coverage of the event? We are
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1 looking at night and not seeing these different
2 things." So it has been drastically cut back.
3 238 So I certainly, on a personal note
4 and on behalf of Crime Stoppers, would like to see more
5 content from our community. Windsor is the number one
6 city. I know it is the number one city in Ontario, but
7 probably in all of Canada as well, having been to many
8 places. So I was hoping that it might be able to be
9 enhanced.
10 239 I have seen some crews come from
11 Toronto and a lot of money being spent on roving
12 projects that are put on on a national basis. I'm
13 saying: My God, with all this money being spent for
14 these roving projects, could they not pump some of this
15 money into our local area? It really seems that
16 sometimes it may offend people that are sending them
17 down here, but it really seems like it is squandered on
18 some of these national issues.
19 240 So I thank you very much for your
20 time.
21 241 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
22 much, gentlemen, both of you, for being here this
23 afternoon.
24 242 I think we may have another member of
25 our first group.
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1 243 Are you Mr. Easton?
2 244 MR. EASTON: Yes. I apologize. I
3 was told I was number 22, so I didn't rush over.
4 245 THE CHAIRPERSON: Number 22. Well,
5 we pulled a fast one on you. We split the group. So
6 you are actually number 4.
7 246 MR. EASTON: Oh. Okay.
8 247 THE CHAIRPERSON: And that would
9 complete our first group. So if you would like to
10 proceed with your remarks.
11 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
12 248 MR. EASTON: Well, thank you for
13 having me here today.
14 249 I'm here in a number of different
15 capacities I guess. I'm a long-time resident in the
16 City of Windsor. I practice law here in Windsor. I
17 have been involved politically with the Progressive
18 Conservative Party of Canada and indeed I am a
19 candidate in the bi-election that is going on right now
20 in Windsor, St. Clair.
21 250 I was very involved with the Save Our
22 Station effort back in 1991 after the headquarters
23 closed our station, I guess in that sense the politics
24 is important because I think the connections were
25 helpful in what I could bring to the table in that.
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1 251 Additionally, I have sat on
2 Percy Hatfield's panel for many years as a political
3 commentator, so I think I'm reasonably well known in
4 the city.
5 252 Certainly, my views on the CBC are
6 that it's essential for our city. It has always been
7 the only TV station here that reflects our community to
8 Windsor.
9 253 You are certainly familiar that you
10 are in the most challenging television and radio market
11 probably in North America, and our location is such
12 that we have not had -- for a variety of broadcasting
13 regulation reasons we have not had different Canadian
14 broadcasters wanting to take on Windsor on a full-time
15 basis. We have lately had the CHWI show up, but even
16 at this point their commitment is certainly not
17 complete. The CBC local station has been a flagship in
18 television particularly but also in radio for
19 reflecting Canadian views and Windsor views to
20 Windsorites.
21 254 So I can't emphasis the importance
22 enough of that. You are in Canada's largest
23 metropolitan region. Unfortunately, about 90 per cent
24 of the people within that metropolitan region are
25 Americans and live on the other side of the river and
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1 they have a very powerful influence on us in this city.
2 A great many of our people listen to and watch American
3 TV.
4 255 Windsor is a very interesting place
5 because of our location next to this huge metropolitan
6 area. We are Canadians by choice. We all have or many
7 of us have ties on the other side of the river and we
8 have chosen to be on this side of the river. But those
9 ties need strengthening and it is very important that
10 Windsor is: one, able to speak to itself; and, two, is
11 able to hear from the rest of the country.
12 256 I was away for about 10 or 12 years
13 for my schooling in Toronto and Ottawa and I guess when
14 I came back home to Windsor and of course found we were
15 about the only city in the country that didn't have
16 cable at that time -- so the access to Canadian TV,
17 whether it was CTV or Global or even TV Ontario was
18 very tough to get with the UHF, there was very little
19 Canadian TV. I just can't emphasize the importance of
20 CBC, which was always reflected on our local Channel 9,
21 even when it was an independent affiliate that was
22 merely carrying the CBC, and that certainly has been
23 strengthened.
24 257 It is interesting Windsor's position.
25 My wife is from northern Ontario and she likes to think
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1 that Windsor is very much like northern Ontario in its
2 sense of isolation from the rest of the province.
3 Maybe that's what -- W.O. Mitchell was our
4 writer-in-residence at the University of Windsor a few
5 years back and he made the comment that Windsor was
6 very much a western city. I think that, in a sense,
7 reflects that feeling of distance from the core,
8 Toronto and -- many of us are Red Wing fans here,
9 you'll know --
10 258 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Not all of us.
11 --- Laughter / Rires
12 259 MR. EASTON: Not all of us. Not all
13 of us. But many of us are.
14 260 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Most of us.
15 261 MR. EASTON: We look north to the
16 best hockey team we can see right across the river.
17 262 So that isolation is a factor that
18 has to be remembered, and it's very important to have
19 the CBC here to help to bind us to the rest of the
20 country.
21 263 But it works two ways. I mean, I
22 think also having a local CBC affiliate here, I know
23 that on a number of occasions I see Windsor news
24 reflected nationally, and that's because we have a
25 station here in Windsor and reporters here in Windsor.
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1 That's very important as well because that isolation
2 works both ways.
3 264 We have a feeling that we are
4 disconnected from the rest of the country to some
5 degree and the rest of the country is disconnected from
6 us and doesn't understand us. So it is very helpful to
7 see some of our local reporters putting Windsor
8 problems on the national stage.
9 265 Certainly, we think as Windsor grows,
10 and it is certainly one of Canada's most important
11 manufacturing centres, and it is certainly a gateway to
12 the United States, we think that its importance needs
13 to be reflected on the national stage. We note that
14 cities such as London, which no longer have an
15 affiliate, are not in that same position and so their
16 news is not -- their reality is not broadcast to the
17 rest of the country. So on both sides of that
18 equation, we think the CBC TV station is important.
19 266 This area is very interesting, too,
20 because it is the site of what I think is the CRTC's --
21 probably its greatest achievement, if maybe I can be so
22 bold as to say, is that the 30 per cent content rule
23 that was imposed on the radio stations back in the
24 sixties was really successful in my mind because of
25 CKLW radio, AM 800, which at the time, in the
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1 mid-sixties, AM radio was supreme. It was the number
2 one radio station in Detroit, it was number one in
3 Cleveland, it was number one in Toledo, it was number
4 two in Cincinnati and number two in Chicago. When they
5 said Gordon Lightfoot was the number one hit song or
6 Joannie Mitchell was the number one hit song, it got
7 played in all of those places because of it.
8 267 I think that's very important because
9 one of the things we -- this is a two-way road in our
10 sense of being a frontier town or at the border is that
11 it also offers us an ability to project into the United
12 States. You know, I think if there is one failing I
13 would mark against the local CBC stations, TV and
14 radio, is that they do not take, I don't even believe
15 they measure, the viewership they have in the United
16 States or the listenership or however you term that in
17 radio, and I think it is a very important point.
18 268 To those of us who have contacts on
19 the other side of the river, we know the Americans
20 listen to our news. They often like to listen to CBC
21 news and feel like they are getting an independent
22 voice, one that is uncoloured by their own political
23 biases. They follow Canadian -- when our olympic
24 coverage, for instance, I mean, they just -- they knew
25 our olympic coverage was far superior to their olympic
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1 coverage. It wasn't tainted with all the patriotism of
2 blatant -- more jingoism that they were displaying on
3 their coverage.
4 269 In my mind, we have a superior
5 product that we should be sending into the United
6 States and we can see what has happened with the
7 success of our radio content law. I mean, it's not for
8 nothing that a girl from Windsor who grew up in Timmins
9 is now the number one country star, and a girl from
10 Quebec has one all the Grammy's for number one album.
11 270 We have an opportunity here, I think,
12 to do some cultural imperialism. I don't know why we
13 don't carry it a little further. We have Canadians all
14 across the United States.
15 271 Why we are not selling our CBC news
16 to cable stations in New York, New York City and Los
17 Angeles, I'm not sure, but I certainly think it's
18 something -- we have an excellent product and we bring
19 a unique prospective to the world, certainly I have
20 seen it here in Windsor, and I think it is one we
21 should be taking into the United States and that would
22 be well received.
23 272 I guess, lastly, I would just, in the
24 main, commend what I see done locally. We don't have
25 enough local time on TV, but what we do have is done
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1 well, very well. I would urge this Commission to
2 contemplate how we might have greater local time. But,
3 that being said, I would compliment both the local
4 programming and, in the main, the national programming
5 which in my mind does a great service in bringing
6 Canada to Canadians from sea to sea to sea and to the
7 Great Lakes.
8 273 Thank you.
9 274 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
10 much, Mr. Easton.
11 275 I don't think we have had our other
12 speaker in from this first group. That would conclude
13 our first group.
14 276 Unfortunately, I think I will have to
15 keep to the timing. Ms Dudley was asking for a further
16 comment, but at the end of the day, if you are able to
17 stay with us, if we complete our full roster, by all
18 means --
19 277 MS DUDLEY: Mr. Easton said a few
20 points that I wanted to.
21 278 THE CHAIRPERSON: So I think it would
22 be fairer if we heard our next full group and, then, at
23 the end of the day, if you wanted to add some comments,
24 that would be great.
25 279 I would like to propose a break. It
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1 is now 2:20. I would like to reconvene at 2:30 with
2 the next group of 10: Mr. Horne, Ms Whissell,
3 Ms Villamizar, Ms Malicki, Mr. Crowell,
4 Ms Mina Grossman-Iani, Ms Susan Haig, Mr. David Palmer
5 and Mr. Liam McCarthy, in 10 minutes.
6 --- Recess at 1420 / Suspension à 1420
7 --- Upon resuming at 1430 / Reprise à 1430
8 280 MR. RHÉAUME: Mr. Bob Horne -- I'm
9 sorry, Bill Horne.
10 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
11 281 MR. HORNE: Thank you very much. I
12 appreciate the opportunity to make these comments about
13 the CBC.
14 282 I am mostly presenting my own
15 personal views, although at some identified points I am
16 speaking as the Regional Director of the Canadian
17 Hearing Society.
18 283 I believe the CBC should attempt to
19 present whatever it is that distinguishes us from
20 Americans or any other nation. Admittedly, this is
21 highly subjective, and likely subject to the CBC's
22 interpretation. But this is not a fault, for the CBC
23 is a Canadian institution and does, in fact, by its
24 very existence, help shape us as Canadians.
25 284 People in other countries who are
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1 familiar with the CBC praise it for its unique role and
2 have expressed opinions to me that they wish their
3 countries had a similar public broadcaster. One has
4 only to listen to the countless jokes about the CBC to
5 realize in fact just how much it is admired by many of
6 our citizens.
7 285 I think the CBC fulfils its role as a
8 national broadcaster extremely well in radio. Programs
9 such as As It Happens and Madly Off In All Directions,
10 these are national treasures and must be protected.
11 They make us cherish the moments we can spend listening
12 to them and become irritable if we are not able to hear
13 them. They help us define what Canadian is.
14 286 In television, it is my opinion that
15 it is harder to be categorically supportive. This is
16 probably because it is such a different medium. Radio
17 involves us and does not let us go. Television watches
18 over us and we tend to tune out a lot of it and channel
19 hop with wild abandon. How many times have we all said
20 when confronted with a couple of zillion channels on
21 television "There is really nothing on right now"?
22 287 And with advertising on the CBC, it
23 does tend to look something like its competitors. CBC
24 radio, however, stands very distinct from its
25 competition.
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1 288 In my opinion, some of the CBC
2 television comedy productions miss the mark with the
3 absolute exception of Royal Canadian Air Farce, truly a
4 Canadian jewel, a defining moment, and its public
5 affairs and news shows are first rate.
6 289 In the next millennium, CBC radio
7 should stay the course and keep doing what it does so
8 well.
9 290 In addition, I think there is a
10 wonderful opportunity to do much more to encourage the
11 development of talent by sponsoring many more creative
12 competitions, whether it be short stories, poetry, play
13 writing, whatever. New talent needs an outlet and CBC
14 radio can do this extremely well. Insist that the
15 works contribute to the further definition of the
16 nature of being Canadian, offer modest prizes chiefly
17 composed of recognition and the talent will come.
18 291 As for television, CBC should carry
19 only Canadian productions and drama, comedy, sports and
20 public affairs, with the exception of foreign
21 contributions such as the BBC World News.
22 292 While I deplore the current strike
23 and the effects it is having on employees and
24 audiences, I have come to appreciate the BBC news on
25 the morning time slot and, as a current affairs junkie,
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1 would love to see this type of programming more
2 regularly. Maybe this would be a way to offset the
3 loss of foreign bureaus by having reputable public
4 broadcasters elsewhere fill the gap.
5 293 The CBC should place great emphasis
6 on staying in touch with its audiences and constantly
7 seek their feedback on new programming and the
8 development of same. It could consider the creation of
9 a consumer advisory panel which would meet at regular
10 intervals to hear presentations from CBC staff and have
11 the power to offer suggestions that will be acted on.
12 I base these comments on personal experience in a
13 former life with Bell Canada's Consumer Advisory Panel.
14 294 Speaking as a representative of the
15 Canadian Hearing Society now I am naturally concerned
16 with accessibility issues for deaf and hard of hearing
17 people and encourage the CBC to move aggressively to
18 full captioning on all of its programming. Recognizing
19 the cost of this, I have no problem with soliciting
20 sponsorships for this venture.
21 295 I also understand that there have
22 been broadcasts of real time radio in the USA via the
23 Web, using voice-to-text captioning for the first time
24 allowing these consumers access to radio. The CBC
25 should be implementing this technology for its prime
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1 shows as a start, and move completely to this medium
2 over the longer term.
3 296 I would also strongly encourage the
4 CBC, both radio and TV, to become more involved with
5 coverage of events for people with disabilities, such
6 as the recent Deaf World Winter Games held in Europe in
7 which Canada won gold in hockey, for example.
8 297 Seventeen per cent of the Ontario
9 population has a recognized disability, the number
10 expected to rise to 25 per cent in just 18 years. CBC
11 can make a major contribution to reducing and
12 eventually eliminating the discrimination and barriers
13 faced by this substantial part of our population. A
14 good example of the start of this recognition was the
15 recent public forum on disabilities hosted here in
16 Windsor by CBC Radio One.
17 298 As to regional productions, there is
18 definitely a role for regional productions, both radio
19 and television. I would like to see the reverse of the
20 trend of less local productions and more national and
21 turn that around.
22 299 I do feel obliged to present a pet
23 peeve here regarding the national and, hence, the local
24 evening news. I simply do not understand why CBC
25 carries national news at 10:00 p.m. and again repeats
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1 it at 11:00, thereby forcing the local regional news to
2 11:30. This is simply too late for many of us who
3 arise early. I would enjoy the local news, but I'm
4 never home from work in time to see it and staying up
5 until 11:30 or later is just too late. I assume
6 somebody watches those news programs, but I never can.
7 300 It seems to me that radio has more
8 flexibility for regional programming, and I applaud the
9 Morning Watch show produced here for its blend of local
10 and regional coverage. Maybe there is an opportunity
11 for some regional public affairs programming at other
12 time slots as well.
13 301 Now, again, speaking as a
14 representative of a non-profit organization, I commend
15 the CBC for its policy of assisting these groups in
16 promotion of their events by providing a level of
17 exposure we could never ever afford at regular
18 commercial rates.
19 302 Programming on CBC generally should
20 be different from other broadcasters because it is not
21 completely advertising driven. Just this morning, with
22 no CBC morning TV program, I was forced, much against
23 my will, to watch Good Morning America. That was about
24 20 minutes as long as I could stand of the worst of the
25 commercials. You know: the movie, the world's best
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1 commercials. This was something like: the movie, the
2 world's worst commercials. I think in the entire
3 20 minutes I didn't learn anything about what was
4 happening in the world, just commercials.
5 303 Information is what will drive the
6 next millennium and the CBC should aggressively work to
7 be the information provider of choice to all Canadians.
8 If I had to choose personally between information and,
9 for example, the Red Green show, it is pretty clear to
10 me which way I would go. It can do this via regular
11 programming and a robust Web presence. Web presence
12 will soon be as common as any other medium, and the CBC
13 must be at the forefront of this technology.
14 304 We need the CBC as much now as any
15 time in our past. We need choices.
16 305 Thank you very much.
17 306 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
18 much, Mr. Horne.
19 307 Our next participant.
20 308 M. RHÉAUME: La prochaine
21 présentation, Mme Mireille Whissell.
22 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
23 309 Mme WHISSELL: Chers représentants du
24 CRTC, je tiens d'abord à vous remercier d'avoir bien
25 voulu vous déplacer pour vous rendre à Windsor pour la
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1 tenue des consultations publiques se rapportant à la
2 radiodiffusion de la Société Radio-Canada à Windsor,
3 Essex et Kent.
4 310 La région de Windsor/Essex/Kent en
5 est une qui regroupe diverses disciplines, dont
6 l'agriculture sur tous ses paliers, renommée pour la
7 représentation de son industrie automobile, ce qui
8 porte plusieurs à penser qu'il s'agit d'une région qui
9 ne compte que des collets bleus. Grave erreur!
10 311 Nous comptons aussi des
11 professionnels qui oeuvrent dans plusieurs domaines
12 tels que le secteur de l'éducation, la culture
13 francophone qui bat son plein par des francophones et
14 pour des francophones, les arts visuels et les
15 personnes d'âge d'or.
16 312 Nous sommes tous actuellement à
17 visionner le millénaire qui franchira bientôt notre
18 seuil et nous nous demandons tous, sans exception, où
19 et comment allons-nous aboutir avec la survie de notre
20 langue maternelle qui est le français sans l'appui
21 médiatique.
22 313 Certains journalistes anglophones se
23 sont permis de publier un article dans notre journal,
24 le "Windsor Star", à l'effet que la radio et la télé
25 française n'étaient plus nécessaires dans cette ville
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1 dont la population anglaise prime et dont la population
2 francophone se voit assimiler. Quelle erreur!
3 314 Nous jouissons d'une merveilleuse
4 équipe d'animateurs et d'animatrices qui oeuvrent au
5 sein d'un poste radiophonique reconnu comme étant le
6 champ de formation pour journalistes. Les plus doués
7 et acharnés se voient muter ailleurs au cours d'une
8 année seulement de formation. Certains ont opté de
9 terminer leur mandat à Windsor et d'autres n'ont pas le
10 choix.
11 315 Nous avons un cablôdistributeur qui
12 porte le nom de Cogeco et qui se refuse de nous offrir
13 le poste RDI de Radio-Canada et les ondes des postes de
14 la Société Radio-Canada télédiffusés en français ne
15 peuvent être captées pour les gens de Belle-Rivière ou
16 Pointe-aux-Roches afin qu'ils puissent en bénéficier.
17 316 Nous avons de belles émissions
18 radiodiffusées localement telles que l'émission de cinq
19 minutes sur la politique étrangère, qui est enviable
20 pour les nouveaux Canadiens francophones dans notre
21 région, offerte par des immigrants francophones aux
22 coûts de la Société. Une tentative de ligne ouverte
23 pour cette émission serait grandement appréciée où l'on
24 pourrait offrir des livres en provenance de maisons
25 d'édition franco-ontariennes aux participants, donc,
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1 d'une pierre, deux coups. Mais on se voit refuser
2 catégoriquement.
3 317 En ce qui a trait à la culture, CBEF
4 Windsor nous fait entendre ses initiatives locales le
5 matin très tôt pour ceux et celles qui se rendent au
6 travail, le midi avec des entrevues diverses pour une
7 période d'une heure et demie, et de 15 h 30 à 17 h 30
8 pour les ados avec entrevue, des activités anticipées
9 aussi dans les institutions scolaires. Le samedi
10 matin, nous jouissons de notre propre Jacques
11 Languirand(ph) à nous, Pierre Côté.
12 318 Entre-temps, on se fait nourrir de la
13 programmation venant de Montréal, nous faisant entendre
14 des entrevues avec des Québécois et pour les Québécois.
15 Même suite à l'envoi d'une liste d'artistes
16 francophones du sud-ouest à Montréal et de leurs
17 accomplissements dans diverses disciplines culturelles,
18 on nous a complètement ignoré sans même un accusé de
19 réception et encore moins une suite.
20 319 Le Centre culturel Tournesol
21 Windsor/Essex/Kent oeuvre depuis 25 ans auprès de la
22 population francophone du sud-ouest et s'est vu
23 reconnaître les siens par son temple de la renommée
24 francophone du sud-ouest auprès duquel nous comptons 46
25 personnalités reconnues comme étant les chefs de fil de
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1 la francophonie du sud-ouest.
2 320 De plus, un cercle littéraire franco
3 du sud-ouest fut initié et se porte très bien, merci.
4 Chaque année depuis quatre ans, au-delà de 350 poèmes
5 sont soumis dans le cadre du concours annuel de poésie,
6 dont les jeunes de cinq ans allant jusqu'aux personnes
7 de 50 ans et plus participent. Pourquoi ne pas passer
8 en entrevue une émission du profil de toutes ces bonnes
9 gens qui ont accompli tellement pour la survie de la
10 francophonie dans le sud-ouest et j'y inclus nos poètes
11 en herbe de tout âge.
12 321 En 1998, le Centre culturel Tournesol
13 Windsor/Essex/Kent montait son site Web sur l'Internet
14 et des communiqués furent envoyés à CBEF Windsor pour
15 en informer la population francophone et les
16 francophones venant à Windsor. On a choisi de ne pas
17 imprimer cette initiative ou même de passer une
18 entrevue pour décrire et faire connaître cette
19 initiative du Centre culturel Tournesol.
20 322 Est-ce que CBEF Windsor ne doit pas
21 reconnaître de telles initiatives, surtout lorsqu'il
22 s'agit d'une première francophone dans la région du
23 sud-ouest? Il me semble clair que cela ne sera
24 possible sans une formation aux réalités et aux
25 exigences du monde moderne.
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1 323 De 1975 à 1993, le Centre culturel
2 Tournesol a présenté des spectacles mettant en vedette
3 toute une panoplie d'artistes choisis de contacts
4 ontariens et dont la plupart venait du Québec. Depuis
5 1994, nous nous limitons à faire valoir nos artistes
6 francophones du sud-ouest et toujours sans la
7 participation active d'une entrevue de CBEF Windsor.
8 324 L'initiative "Ontario Pop" bat son
9 plein, mais où vont nos artistes francophones suite à
10 cet événement? Que deviennent-ils sinon inconnus de
11 tous et de partout? Je me dois de louanger l'intérêt
12 de CBEF Windsor à ce sujet pour quelques-uns de nos
13 artistes, mais que sont-ils devenus?
14 325 Une programmation sur le profil de
15 nos artistes francophones du sud-ouest devrait faire
16 partie des émissions radiodiffusées et télédiffusées.
17 Le refus de nous reconnaître ne fait qu'accentuer notre
18 amertume vis-à-vis de notre soi-disante Société Radio-
19 Canada qui, en passant, existe grâce à nos argents.
20 326 Sur la toile nationale, nous
21 reconnaissons que chaque région a ses besoins
22 particuliers et la SRC surpasse les normes et les cotes
23 d'écoute au sein des régions francophones.
24 327 Sur la toile régionale, toujours
25 selon les restrictions budgétaires, la SRC se voit
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1 prise dans l'engrenage politique, ayant à s'assouplir
2 aux exigences imposées par les gouvernements, et ce, au
3 détriment des demandes soumises par les auditeurs des
4 diverses régions. Chaque région a ses besoins, mais
5 quoiqu'il en soit, les auditeurs et auditrices se
6 voient privés de leurs droits, qu'ils soient exprimés
7 ou non.
8 328 Portant deux chapeaux pour cette
9 représentation, je souligne la participation de notre
10 Club Richelieu International de Windsor. Assurez-vous
11 que je n'y fais pas erreur et je cite bel et bien le
12 Club Richelieu International de Windsor.
13 329 Nous sommes le seul Club Richelieu à
14 détenir un tel titre parmi les quelques 470 Club
15 Richelieu qui font partie du Richelieu International.
16 Nous avons émis des communiqués à la SRC, CBEF Windsor,
17 listant les activités de notre Club Richelieu et nous
18 avons même eu la veine de recruter le Directeur de CBEF
19 Windsor, mais nos renseignements soumis se voient
20 perdus ou remplacés par d'autres activités. On nous a
21 même informé que l'on ne pouvait recruter d'autres
22 membres de CBEF Windsor pour en faire partie, étant
23 donné les lois des ressources humaines en vigueur à la
24 SRC.
25 330 On en est toujours à se demander
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1 pourquoi. Où en est la logique d'une telle loi?
2 Serait-ce que les employés de la SRC doivent connaître
3 un statut social qui leur est particulier et qu'ils se
4 verraient diminués pour autant en faisant partie
5 d'organismes francophones dans la région?
6 318 La SRC n'est-elle pas une média pour
7 la population francophone et par la population
8 francophone ou encore serait-elle victime de
9 l'engrenage politique dans lequel elle trempe toujours?
10 332 Que la SRC se décentralise
11 complètement des griffes politiques qui la retiennent
12 et qu'elle entreprenne des initiatives innovatrices
13 régionales et locales qu'elle dessert. La population
14 francophone du sud-ouest est reconnue pour avoir le
15 plus grand nombre de bénévoles francophones au sein de
16 sa communauté et je puis vous assurer que ces bénévoles
17 répondront généreusement à l'appel de la SRC si telle
18 demande était formulée.
19 333 Je termine en vous remerciant d'avoir
20 bien voulu écouter ces revendications qui reflètent
21 l'opinion des membres du Centre culturel Tournesol
22 Windsor/Essex/Kent et du Club Richelieu International
23 du Windsor qui compte au-delà de 200 membres actifs
24 francophones qui oeuvrent avec acharnement à la survie
25 de sa culture et de sa langue française.
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1 334 Merci.
2 335 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Merci beaucoup,
3 Madame Whissel.
4 336 MR. RHÉAUME: Our next presenter will
5 be Margaret Villamizar.
6 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
7 337 MS VILLAMIZAR: Good afternoon.
8 338 I'm here also in a capacity as a
9 private citizen, although I'm active in a lot of
10 different facets in the community and have been
11 involved with various organizations which have taken a
12 stand for some time in support of public broadcasting
13 and the continuation and expansion of a public
14 broadcaster here in Canada and locally.
15 339 In my own right, I won't speak out of
16 nostalgia, but just to sort of throw it in, I was
17 raised I guess on Kindergarten Of The Year because they
18 didn't have kindergarten in the town that I grew up in
19 the Ottawa Valley. So I remember listening to that at
20 the age of I guess five, and that was on CBC. Ever
21 since that I can remember kind of significant portions
22 of my growing up and times of the day were marked by
23 the One O'clock Signal, the News at Six, and so on. So
24 I guess I'm qualified as being a lifelong listener and
25 viewer of CBC television as well.
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1 340 One of the things that sparked me to
2 put my name forward was having read the local newspaper
3 which is owned by the Southam chain locally here. Over
4 the last year at least three times I have read very
5 aggressive anti-public broadcasting editorials coming
6 from that newspaper and it made me very angry to see
7 that someone was presuming to speak for Windsor, not
8 only once, but repeatedly so, and the last effort that
9 was put forward actually came today directed to this
10 Commission.
11 341 The Windsor Star's editors seem to
12 believe that CBC should simply be sold off to the
13 highest bidder, and they make assertions to back that
14 up such that people aren't watching, people aren't
15 listening. Today's assertions had to do with the fact
16 that we are surrounded by choices, U.S. media like no
17 other audience, but yet we still are very confident
18 about our identity and we don't need the CBC, thanks
19 very much. I can't imagine that that's based on any
20 kind of investigation.
21 342 I remember when I worked in the
22 school system previously dealing with young children
23 and part of the work I had to do involved asking them
24 questions of a general information nature. It is kind
25 of disappointing to hear kids, young children -- and
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1 then I encounter it also in adults here who really are
2 not that informed about Canadian affairs, but they can
3 tell you all kinds of things about U.S. public figures.
4 It's not particular to Windsor I'm sure, but I think it
5 is much more of an issue here and it's no accident that
6 it's because the U.S. media is ever present and it is
7 bombarding. So I don't know where Windsor Star's
8 editorial is coming from.
9 343 Personally, I would oppose the
10 sell-off or privatization of the CBC, just for the
11 record, and I also oppose a slow death by 1,000 cuts,
12 which I think is a very real threat and in fact is in
13 process at the very moment.
14 344 The current government has been on
15 record as saying it supports CBC, made election
16 promises at that time, but in fact has cut more money
17 than any other previous government, I believe, and is
18 continuing to do so most recently in its money
19 available for productions that are aired on CBC.
20 345 There is a reason I think in a
21 geographically vast country like Canada, with its
22 difference to have an agency like the CBC, to have it
23 flourish and continue so that in fact we can speak to
24 one another, learn about one another, and I think
25 foster national unity in a real way, in a meaningful
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1 way, where people, through dialogue and mutual
2 understanding, become aware of everyone's rights being
3 equal and everyone having the right to determine their
4 own future if they so desire.
5 346 It is much more effective to have a
6 CBC that brings people to one another in that way than
7 to wave a bunch of flags or produce a bunch of trinkets
8 which you distribute and ram down people's throat in
9 the name of unity or worse.
10 347 I think one of the other concerns I
11 have is the marketplace dictating what we hear in the
12 radio and what we see on television is something I
13 can't accept as being a thing that we should be
14 supporting at this time. I think more than ever we are
15 inundated by a market-driven philosophy that says
16 whatever sells is good and if you have the money to
17 market things, you create your market and therefore you
18 can promote all kinds of things in the name of culture.
19 348 I think again here we have a very
20 good example of some really brash, cheap, cynical,
21 loud-mouth talk show hosts dominating the airwaves
22 which really are contributing to the dumbing down of
23 America and the dumbing down of our country, too, if we
24 allow this kind of thing to proliferate in a way that
25 it naturally would if we just allow the market and
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1 those with the money to promote what they want to
2 promote to flourish.
3 349 I think we have to also take a look
4 at the print media if you want to see what happens when
5 you have the privateers having their way and saying
6 that all that we need is to have a private industry and
7 things will be just fine.
8 350 We can look no farther than our own
9 city, Windsor, where we have one newspaper in the
10 Conrad Black owned chain now that has filled its pages
11 with people who are promoted as being experts of one
12 sort or another who, in the most crude and sensational
13 way, now are putting forward views that attack
14 immigrants and refugees, not once, not twice but three
15 times in a period of a couple of months; attack
16 workers; attack teachers; the youth; public
17 broadcasting in a most sensational way; and also carry
18 items that sort of feed into this whole thing of
19 getting tough on crime, getting tough on teen mothers
20 in a way that one would have to say comes straight out
21 of the southern U.S.
22 351 I don't think that is the kind of
23 thing that promotes the unity and cohesiveness of our
24 community. In fact, it promotes the opposite,
25 divisions, and enmities and animosity, and I don't want
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1 that kind of thing to be looked on as a norm,
2 especially when the editors of this particular
3 newspaper are the very ones who are campaigning in a
4 very aggressive way against continued funding for CBC
5 or worse.
6 352 I think it is important that
7 Windsorites who feel strongly that this is not the way
8 to go should come forward and speak. So that's what I
9 wanted to do today.
10 353 One of the other things that is a
11 concern to me also at this time is I think that the
12 public broadcaster, CBC, should be an independent
13 force, as was mentioned by some other people here
14 today. I don't at all agree with the idea that it
15 should be subjected to political control or
16 manipulation, and that goes also for who gets appointed
17 to the CRTC. I don't like the idea that we have
18 political appointments in large number and people of
19 maybe questionable connections who are deciding such an
20 important thing as the national broadcast policy for
21 our country and for our people.
22 354 This is a time when people are
23 demanding much more say in the affairs of the nation
24 and the affairs of their own destiny and we should have
25 a role as citizens in some way selecting who should be
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1 our representatives and making important policy on the
2 question of the public broadcast agency.
3 355 Local coverage is something I would
4 like to just say a word about.
5 356 I think we went through an experience
6 when local coverage was suspended here in Windsor which
7 others have also spoken about where we saw some other
8 private broadcasters come in and fill a vacancy to some
9 extent, but the coverage they gave turned out, after a
10 little while, to be marginal. They were operating out
11 of another office and it wasn't profitable that they
12 report on Windsor or they didn't have people here, or
13 you had to have a news break only at certain times to
14 be covered, and it was not an adequate substitute
15 whatsoever for local CBC programming.
16 357 I'm glad it was reinstated. I think
17 it should be enhanced and I think we should have more
18 coverage. We should give the opportunity to local
19 citizens, young performers, to the youth and others who
20 wish to have a platform from which to speak, to have
21 that expanded, English and French radio. I can
22 appreciate the comments made previously as well.
23 That's something I support.
24 358 Finally, I think one of the fields in
25 which the CBC should consider expanding in a way that
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1 makes sense is even in the schools, in the education
2 system.
3 359 There are incursions being made right
4 now by commercial TV under the guise of putting news in
5 the classroom and, you know, bribery in many ways I
6 think. It is being used to inject I think a rather
7 narrow and biased point of view in the name of news.
8 Possibly, also from what I have read about, some of the
9 new news programs put in, but of course crass
10 commercialism.
11 360 CBC has all kinds of programming that
12 can be valuable and is I'm sure used in schools. I
13 think more can be done to promote that. Teachers could
14 learn a bit, too, from what I have seen about valuable
15 content.
16 361 A question that wasn't asked but
17 maybe I will just throw in: Where does the money come
18 from if I'm calling for an expansion not a contraction
19 of programming and reinstatement of funding and, if
20 necessary, more funding? I think the whole question of
21 priorities and the use of public dollars has to be
22 addressed at this time.
23 362 I'm not a believer that the
24 trickle-down theory is going to work, that the more
25 money you pump into the pockets of the rich and the
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1 people who are already in a powerful position the
2 benefits will gradually follow to the rest of that. I
3 don't believe it works now, it has never worked.
4 363 I think that we should not be
5 focusing on putting all the resources of the nation in
6 the hands of the rich in one way or another, through
7 subsidies, through grants, through tax breaks, you name
8 it. We should be investing in people and in services
9 that actually help build our nation, not tear it apart.
10 That includes of course health and education, but I
11 include in that a valuable public independent
12 broadcaster which should be properly funded. I don't
13 think that's the trend right now and I think it's
14 important that we look at these priorities in this
15 light.
16 364 Things that I have heard advocated
17 and what I agree with include even a moratorium on
18 interest payments on the debt for those who have, in
19 many cases, collected the value of the debt many times
20 over in interest payments. Why don't they get put that
21 on hold for a time and we can invest in the kinds of
22 programs and services that Canadians need to produced
23 an enlightened, cultured citizenry.
24 365 So that is I guess what I wanted to
25 say for today.
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1 366 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
2 much.
3 367 Our next speaker.
4 368 MR. RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is
5 Pat Malicki.
6 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
7 369 MS MALICKI: Very good. You got it
8 right.
9 370 First of all, I would like to say I'm
10 also here as an independent citizen.
11 371 I was born in Kirkland Lake, Ontario
12 moved to Winnipeg, then to Toronto, then to
13 St. Catharines, then back to Toronto and eventually
14 here 25 years ago and CBC has been a constant all
15 through my life.
16 372 Because of all the moves, my
17 family -- my parents, when they were growing up, moved
18 around a lot, so we have family and friends from coast
19 to coast. The CBC enables us to know what is going on
20 in the rest of the country so we know what is affecting
21 them, not just what is affecting us in our own local
22 area.
23 373 As has been mentioned several times
24 this afternoon, Windsor is just a step away from one of
25 the largest media markets in North America. In Windsor
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1 we are proudly Canadian but we are constantly bombarded
2 with American programming. None of the cities that I
3 have lived in has been subjected to U.S. broadcasting
4 as much as we are here in Windsor. We need the CBC,
5 not only the national programming but also the regional
6 programming.
7 374 I remember several years ago when our
8 regional newscasts were coming from Toronto. It was at
9 that time that I had to turn to other stations to
10 receive a little more local news than what we were
11 getting out of the Toronto regional broadcast. While
12 the information was being fed to Toronto, only a
13 certain amount of time was allotted to each area,
14 usually only one Windsor area item was included in
15 these broadcasts. These decisions were being made by
16 people who knew nothing at all about this area. Those
17 newscasts lacked relevance to us. Needless to say, we
18 were all delighted when the regional programming was
19 returned to the Windsor station.
20 375 I listen to CBC to find out what is
21 happening in my city, the county, the province and the
22 country and also the world around us. In our family,
23 we look to CBC for its excellent current affairs and
24 news programming. We are not fans of tabloid
25 journalism.
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1 376 Let me take you through a typical day
2 in the Malicki household.
3 377 We start the morning with Morning
4 Watch, which brings us up to date on what is happening
5 in this area.
6 378 As I go about my day, I continue with
7 This Morning and Ontario Today. These programs help me
8 to feel connected with my country and my province. I
9 enjoy the interviews and the conversations. I learn
10 about others in this vast country of ours, their
11 successes, their problems, their feelings, their
12 dreams.
13 379 Every night, until recently, which I
14 presume is because of the strike, my husband watches
15 the Business News on Newsworld at 6:30 p.m. It is the
16 only purely Canadian business report available to him
17 and it is absolutely essential for him in his job as a
18 stockbroker to have that information.
19 380 Later in the evening we often watch
20 The Journal and almost always watch The National to be
21 brought up to date on what is happening in Canada and
22 the rest of the world. I happen to be nighthawk, so I
23 stay up for the local news because I can't watch it at
24 5:30 and 6:00 because that's when we are having supper.
25 381 Lest you think that we are news
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1 junkies or have nothing else to do during the day, that
2 is far from the truth. We are busy people involved in
3 our community. The programs we listen to either at
4 home or in the car help us to feel connected. We learn
5 from them. They help us to feel less insular in our
6 thinking, help us to find out if there is a better way
7 of doing things: Has some other area experienced the
8 same problems or decisions that face us?
9 382 I must mention on the weekend
10 Arthur Black, Definitely Not the Opera, Fresh Air are
11 constants in our lives. What we really miss is
12 Double Exposure. It did not translate well to TV. I
13 can remember many times driving down the street and I'm
14 sure people in the cars next to me must have thought I
15 was a little bit crazy because I was laughing.
16 383 Let me give you a couple of examples
17 of the importance of CBC reporting and programming.
18 384 Last fall we were visiting friends
19 who moved to Australia about 10 years ago. They live
20 in the Brisbane area. Every morning at 8:00 a.m. they
21 set up their shortwave radio to pick up the CBC. I
22 believe with the time difference it was The World At
23 Six. They want to keep in touch with their native
24 country and hear international news from a Canadian
25 viewpoint. It was wonderful for us, having been away
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1 for a few weeks, to be able to find out what was going
2 on at home.
3 385 In this area, when the olympics are
4 on, we have a choice of watching either the Canadian or
5 American coverage with or without cable. Which do we
6 want? The Canadian coverage provided by CBC. Why?
7 Because it is comprehensive, relevant and balanced.
8 While it naturally focuses on the Canadian
9 participants, it also endeavours to educate us about
10 participants from other countries.
11 386 An interesting fact probably unknown
12 to many outside this area is that many Americans choose
13 to watch the CBC olympic coverage for just these
14 reasons. The American coverage is just too biased. At
15 times it can be nauseating. I don't think the quality
16 of the CBC news and current affairs programming can be
17 matched by anyone else. We just need more of it.
18 387 I read recently that it costs each
19 Canadian $30 a year to subsidize the CBC. While I
20 would prefer to use the word "support" rather than
21 "subsidize", I think it is money well spent. In fact,
22 as a taxpayer, I would be willing to increase that
23 support. I would far rather see us invest in the
24 future of the CBC than give a $98,000 grant to a
25 Montreal publisher for a book on dumb blonde jokes.
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1 388 The CBC cannot be all things to all
2 people, but it can speak to all Canadians. It is the
3 only network that tries to do so. I want to hear the
4 international news from a Canadian perspective, not an
5 American perspective. We need to keep our foreign
6 bureaus and not buy coverage from foreign networks. I
7 want to get my news from a broadcaster that is not
8 solely concerned with the bottom line.
9 389 We all have to be financially
10 accountable and the CBC has been doing an excellent job
11 over the past several years of tightening its belt.
12 However, at some point the belt tightening will cut off
13 the flow of blood and that will be the end of the CBC
14 as a national public broadcaster.
15 390 Also, at this point, I would like to
16 address some notes that I had made this afternoon.
17 391 Getting the younger audience has been
18 mentioned. To me that is not a major problem. I know
19 myself when I was a teenager, I wouldn't have been
20 caught dead listening to the CBC. But as a young
21 mother I can remember early on listening to the hockey
22 sweater being read on Morningside. I have never
23 forgotten that and that was 24 or 25 years ago.
24 392 Locally, we love to hear Bob Monks or
25 see Bob Monks on TV. My husband feels Percy's Panel is
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1 much too short; he just gets into it and then they are
2 off. My feeling, too, is spend less on bricks and
3 mortar, as has been done with the big CBC centres in
4 Toronto and Ottawa, and more on the programming.
5 393 In closing, some of the questions
6 posed in the December news release:
7 "How well does the CBC fulfil
8 its role as the national public
9 broadcasters?" (As read)
10 394 I think it is doing very well but it
11 could do a lot better.
12 "How well does the CBC serve the
13 public on a regional as well as
14 a national level?" (As read)
15 395 It definitely needs improvement
16 regionally. We need more local TV coverage, and it
17 seems that Windsor ceases to exist on Saturday and
18 Sunday.
19 "Should the programming provided
20 by the CBC radio and television
21 be different from that provided
22 by other broadcasters?"
23 (As read)
24 396 Yes. It should serve to inform us
25 about our country and its role on the global stage. It
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1 should help us to learn that we do have differences in
2 our nation, but we also have a lot of similarities.
3 "Is there a special role that
4 the CBC should play in the
5 presentation of Canadian
6 programming?" (As read)
7 397 Yes, and it should improve on what it
8 is doing now.
9 398 Thank you for hearing my comments
10 today. I hope that your visit to Windsor has been
11 enlightening.
12 399 THE CHAIRPERSON: It has indeed.
13 --- Off microphone / Sans microphone
14 400 THE CHAIRPERSON: Certainly, Madam,
15 and it will continue to be so I'm sure.
16 401 We will turn the microphone over to
17 our next speaker.
18 402 MR. RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is
19 Mr. George Crowell.
20 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
21 403 MR. CROWELL: Thank you.
22 404 I came to Windsor from the United
23 States back in 1968 in order to teach in the Department
24 of Religious Studies at the university here. My field
25 is social ethics. I have been very grateful for the
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1 coverage of public affairs that has been provided by
2 the CBC. It is far richer than was available in the
3 United States.
4 405 I remember especially during the
5 1980s the way in which the CBC provided information
6 about the United States' interventions in Central
7 American when there was massive denial of what was
8 occurring by the U.S. administration and support of
9 that view almost completely uncritically in a mainline
10 media in the United States. The CBC position made it
11 clear to us here that we need an independent foreign
12 policy. I'm very grateful for that kind of
13 contribution.
14 406 I think especially today it's evident
15 that the CBC's contribution is even more needed because
16 there has been an enormous decline in coverage in the
17 U.S. media of public affairs as they have turned more
18 and more to spending time with entertainers and
19 devoting programs to deal with the private immoralities
20 of all kinds of people. If anything, we need more
21 coverage of public affairs.
22 407 I strongly oppose any move toward
23 privatization. I would like to make the point that if
24 privatization should occur, it would be very difficult
25 for us to go back and to recreate an effective public
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1 broadcasting network. The NAFTA, the North American
2 Free Trade Agreement, provides that any private
3 enterprise which is deprived by the public sector of
4 opportunities to profit that it has enjoyed in the past
5 can sue for compensation. So it would be virtually
6 impossible under the NAFTA for us to republicize
7 anything that had been privatized, and that would
8 include public broadcasting.
9 408 My initial understanding of what this
10 hearing was about was to offer us an opportunity to
11 defend the CBC from being dismantled, but I see that
12 among the questions that is asked is:
13 "In the new millennium, should
14 the CBC fulfil its role in a
15 different manner than it has in
16 the past?" (As read)
17 409 I would like to make a suggestion for
18 a creative initiative that might be taken to strengthen
19 broadcasting dealing with public policy. I suggest
20 that there be a conscious, explicit focus on the issue
21 of global survival.
22 410 We should all be aware, and the CBC
23 has helped inform us about this, that the human
24 community is under threat from a number of different
25 directions. We have an exploding population. Our
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1 resource base is being undermined. We are distributing
2 toxic substances into our environment. The conflicts
3 that occur can be exacerbated by weapons of mass
4 destruction. The human enterprise is in severe danger.
5 It seems to me that the CBC could do an enormously
6 creative service to all of us if it should focus on the
7 issue of global survival. I would suggest that it
8 focus on three basic questions.
9 411 The first would be: What are the
10 conditions that are necessary in order to make it
11 possible for human beings to survive and to thrive on
12 this planet indefinitely into the future, obviously in
13 harmony, not only with each other but also with our
14 environment?
15 412 Second: What institutional
16 structures are required if we are to fulfil the
17 conditions that are necessary for our survival?
18 413 Third: How do we get from where we
19 are now to where we need to go?
20 414 Obviously, these are very complicated
21 questions to deal with.
22 415 I'm also recommending that our
23 university community, beginning here in Windsor,
24 develop a program to focus on those kinds of questions.
25 I would think that the CBC could help to orchestrate
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1 focusing the attention of people all across Canada on
2 this issue, giving an opportunity for people in our
3 education system and in public affairs organizations to
4 have public forums dealing with these issues, where not
5 only people with a high degree of expertise like David
6 Suzuki and many others would have a chance to be heard
7 but where also forums for ordinary people, even for
8 grade school children could be developed in order to
9 focus on these questions.
10 416 I know that it is very difficult for
11 people to maintain attention in dealing with complex
12 questions, but I think these particular issues are so
13 urgent and indeed can be so exciting that it would be
14 possible to develop very exciting programming focusing
15 on these problems. Obviously, they are highly
16 controversial and I think it would be very healthy for
17 Canadians and people elsewhere in the world, of course,
18 to debate these questions fully.
19 417 In the process of debating them, we
20 could draw in the insights of people from other parts
21 of the world, not only from Canada, but people like
22 Vandada Sheba(ph) in India who has had a relationship
23 with Western University who is working to help local
24 farmers in India preserve their local seed varieties
25 from a takeover by corporations that are reducing the
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1 genetic variety of our food crops and threatening our
2 survival in that way.
3 418 So I would just like to recommend a
4 creative initiative that would strengthen the CBC's
5 commitment to deal with public affairs.
6 419 Thank you.
7 420 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much
8 for your comments and suggestions.
9 421 Onto our next speaker.
10 422 M. RHÉAUME: La prochaine
11 présentation est celle de Mme Mina Grossman-Iani.
12 423 Nous allons aller then to Susan Haig.
13 She is not here.
14 424 Mr. David Palmer.
15 425 Finally, Mr. Liam McCarthy.
16 426 THE CHAIRPERSON: We have said that
17 the session can go until 5:00, therefore, I would like
18 to give a little more time to allow people to arrive.
19 427 In the meantime, what we will do is
20 take a short break and we will come back and, if others
21 haven't arrived, ask the CBC to make their comments on
22 this part of the day, as they will do again this
23 evening, and if our other speakers have arrived, we
24 will hear them then.
25 428 We will take a break until 3:25. I
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1 think it is now 3:15. Am I fast, slow?
2 --- Off microphone / Sans microphone
3 429 THE CHAIRPERSON: I'm slow? Me?
4 --- Laughter / Rires
5 430 THE CHAIRPERSON: So 3:30. Is that a
6 good compromise? Thank you.
7 431 We will see you all here at 3:30 and
8 we will hear the CBC; if not we will hear our speakers
9 who are not here at the moment.
10 432 If anybody sees them -- if you see
11 them, Mr. Carlan, would you let me know, since you seem
12 to know everyone?
13 433 MR. CARLAN: (Off microphone/sans
14 microphone...)
15 --- Recess at 1520 / Suspension à 1520
16 --- Upon resuming at 1532 / Reprise à 1532
17 434 THE CHAIRPERSON: Is there anyone
18 here who was on the schedule for this evening and would
19 like to come forward now?
20 435 MR. RHÉAUME: No.
21 436 THE CHAIRPERSON: We will wait for
22 this evening.
23 437 Okay. Just before we had our break,
24 Mr. Langs asked to speak. In fact, he was on the list
25 in the other room so I have invited him to the table at
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1 this point.
2 438 Following that, Mr. Plexman will
3 bring a clarification to his comments.
4 439 Mr. Langs, if you would state your
5 full name for the record.
6 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
7 440 MR. LANGS: My name is Richard Langs.
8 I am a committee of one representing just myself.
9 441 Is the CBC important? Well, as we
10 have heard from so many speakers already, it certainly
11 is, and personally I would go along with that line very
12 quickly.
13 442 A moment should be used to explain
14 I'm more a radio person than a TV person. If by
15 government decree, or something else, individuals could
16 only have the use of a radio or a TV, for yours truly
17 the TV would need be sacrificed. Don't take my radio!
18 --- Laughter / Rires
19 443 MR. LANGS: This does not suggest CBC
20 TV isn't important to me. Labour disputes aside, The
21 National with The Magazine is viewed most evenings.
22 Whenever possible, the same applies to other
23 programming such as The Fifth Estate, Market Place,
24 Venture, David Suzuki's The Nature of Things, the local
25 news at 11:30 and for sheer entertainment The Air Farce
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1 is certainly hard to beat.
2 444 About 80 to 85 per cent of my TV
3 viewing is spent with these programs. The other 15 per
4 cent to 20 per cent perhaps CBS' 60 Minutes, a couple
5 of dramas plus Global's 11:00 p.m. news.
6 445 In Windsor, we are fortunate to have
7 substantial CBC radio coverage. Paul Vassey in the
8 morning and Barbara Peacock in the afternoon do a fine
9 job, plus all their backup people.
10 446 In the noon to 2:00 p.m. time slot,
11 Dave Stephens(ph) clues us into news, events and other
12 items of interest to Ontarians. The CBC's national
13 network provides This Morning, The House, As It
14 Happens, Cross Country Check-up. Is the information
15 derived from their programming important to Canadians?
16 Most definitely.
17 447 Referring to As It Happens, just for
18 a brief second. I'm amazed at the number of people
19 from our own country and from the United States who
20 phone in at their own expense, not an 800 number, to
21 make a comment about items that they hear on As It
22 Happens. So our CBC does have a more profound impact
23 than it is sometimes given credit.
24 448 Would all the good things that we
25 have on CB continue if the CBC disappears? I don't
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1 think so. Thus, we have to maintain the CBC and, if
2 anything, expand it.
3 449 Is the CBC perfect? Far from it.
4 Apparently, the CBC brass is planning to implement a
5 new radio network at a time when regional coverage in
6 many areas does not exist. I find it incredulous a
7 city the size of London does not have a CBC outlet
8 comparable to what we have in Windsor.
9 450 Reductions to take place at three
10 foreign bureaus, a cost-saving measure no doubt
11 underlines the sheer stupidity of a third network at
12 this time. The reason for such a concept is concern
13 that fewer younger people listen to the CBC. Should we
14 be surprised at that?
15 451 Well, for myself the CBC was not
16 discovered by me until my mid-twenties. Once I became
17 a fully thinking adult, not just by age, I sought out
18 sources of info beyond that available in the press and
19 from private broadcasting. CBC coverage is distinct.
20 Quite frankly, I do not like the concentration of
21 ownership in the print and, to a lesser extent perhaps,
22 in private broadcasting.
23 452 Finally, there are those who maintain
24 the CRCT is no longer required. The Windsor Star's
25 editorial in the final paragraph said, you know, do
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1 away with you people. This is not my opinion. You
2 folks are, in my opinion, the watchdog of
3 telecommunications, to ensure that the public is well
4 served by broadcasters, cable operators and others.
5 453 In addition to providing
6 entertainment, the CBC is also a watchdog in my
7 opinion. They scrutinize the actions of government at
8 all levels and of businesses. Eliminating or reducing
9 the scrutiny leads to abuse. We know that from things
10 we see all the time, the athletic situation we have at
11 the moment. When this occurs, the public is
12 shortchanged in some manner.
13 454 Additionally, the politicians who are
14 motivated to truly serve the constituents and those
15 businesses we consider good corporate citizens are
16 smeared by the actions of these few scoundrels.
17 455 Thanks for providing me the
18 opportunity to present my views.
19 456 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
20 much, Mr. Langs.
21 457 You can stay with us if you would
22 like at the table or if you have to go --
23 458 MR. LANGS: Thank you kindly. Thank
24 you. No, not at all. Thank you.
25 459 THE CHAIRPERSON: Great.
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1 460 Mr. Plexman.
2 PRESENTATION, Continued / PRÉSENTATION, Continuez
3 461 MR. PLEXMAN: My name is
4 Fred Plexman, as I mentioned previously.
5 462 A comment I would like to add to my
6 previous statement is regarding Radio Two. The content
7 is excellent, but I have a problem with poor local
8 reception especially when I'm in my car, the station
9 drifts or I get static noise. It could be my car
10 radio, but I have no other problem with other FM
11 stations so I presume there is something either in the
12 area I'm driving in or poorer equipment broadcasting.
13 463 Thank you very much. I just wanted
14 to get this on the record.
15 464 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
16 much.
17 465 Perhaps we could verify if anybody
18 else has come, who has not spoken, from our list.
19 466 MR. RHÉAUME: Certainly.
20 467 Madame Mina Grossman-Iani, Susan
21 Haig, David Palmer, Liam McCarthy.
22 468 THE CHAIRPERSON: Is the CBC ready to
23 come to the table? Mr. Taylor?
24 469 Thank you.
25 REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
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1 470 MR. TAYLOR: Madam Chair, I simply
2 want to thank everybody who took the time and the care
3 to come out and make comments about the services that
4 we provide today. Rest assured that we have been
5 listening and making careful note.
6 471 Because of the division into two
7 rooms, our people representing English radio and
8 English television, French radio and French television
9 have been separated, but we will ensure that all of the
10 comments get reflected to the appropriate places; and,
11 even more, we will endeavour to get back to individuals
12 on those specific issues, comments and questions that
13 were raised.
14 472 I would like to add just one other
15 comment. I guess it's a humbling experience to sit and
16 listen to these kind of comments, but I guess for those
17 of us who were with the CBC and here through the early
18 1990s, the expression of community support that poured
19 out then was most overwhelming and it continues to be
20 to this day.
21 473 Thank you.
22 474 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
23 much, Mr. Taylor.
24 475 As I said previously, we still have
25 some speakers who have not turned up and our schedule
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1 was until 5:00, so I think we will actually stay here a
2 short while, unless Mr. Palmer, Mr. McCarthy, Ms Haig
3 or Ms Grossman-Iani have joined us.
4 476 If not, I would like to take this
5 opportunity as well to thank all the participants who
6 we have seen this afternoon.
7 477 As you know, we are seeing an almost
8 equal number this evening. It is most impressive to
9 see you all turning out to offer your comments and we
10 truly appreciate your considered interest in adding to
11 the public record as we look to the upcoming decisions
12 that the CRTC will be making regarding the licence
13 renewals of the CBC Radio-Canada.
14 478 J'aimerais remercier aussi mon
15 collègue, the court reporter, the technician -- I think
16 we finally got our timing down in terms of who is
17 putting me on air and who is not -- and certainly to
18 all of you. Thank you very, very much.
19 479 As I said, with that we will close.
20 You are welcome to stay, but as well we will stay a
21 little longer in case some of our people turn up and if
22 the CBC could stay, I would appreciate it as well.
23 480 We will also reconvene at 6:00 p.m.
24 until 10:00 this evening, so if anybody is interested
25 in coming back to hear more, that would be great.
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1 --- Recess at 1540 / Suspension à 1540
2 --- Upon resuming at 1615 / Reprise à 1615
3 481 THE CHAIRPERSON: Welcome. We are
4 here to hear what you have to say, so we are not asking
5 questions. We have given all the time to hear the
6 participants throughout the day. So without further
7 ado, over to you.
8 482 We have set a limit of 10 minutes per
9 presentation and c'est à peu près tout. Alors, quand
10 vous serez prête.
11 483 Mme GROSSMAN-IANI: Je suis prête.
12 484 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, we actually
13 have a technician who does that and he and I have
14 finally co-ordinated, except I'm talking --
15 --- Laughter / Rires
16 485 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Vas-y s'il vous
17 plaît.
18 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
19 486 Mme GROSSMAN-IANI: Alors, bonjour et
20 bienvenue à Windsor aux membres du CRTC.
21 487 Nous aimerions d'abord vous remercier
22 d'avoir choisi notre ville pour visiter. Évidemment,
23 vous auriez eu très tort de ne pas la visiter parce
24 que, comme dit souvent notre maire, Windsor c'est
25 l'endroit -- the place to be.
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1 488 C'est l'endroit pour plusieurs
2 raisons. C'est une des villes manufacturières du
3 Canada les plus importantes où la technologie est très
4 avancée, où on est habitué à travailler ensemble, en
5 partenariat -- ce nom qui est devenu tellement
6 populaire ces jours-ci -- mais qui est une réalité
7 quotidienne ici à Windsor. Finalement, c'est la porte
8 d'entrée la plus importante entre les États-Unis et le
9 Canada. C'est une ville qui célébrera dans deux ans le
10 tricentenaire de l'arrivée des premiers colons d'Europe
11 et ils parlaient français, donc, une ville avec une
12 longue histoire riche, et enfin, une ville culturelle.
13 489 Yes, you heard right, a cultural
14 city. We are the sculpture garden capital of Canada.
15 If you have a chance, you should take a walk by the
16 water and see for yourself one of the most exciting
17 locales for sculpture in the entire world at the
18 confluence of two great cities.
19 490 We have a thriving amateur theatre
20 community, one of the finest regional art galleries in
21 Canada, a great library system, a first-rank
22 university, and of course an exciting and thrilling
23 symphony orchestra that launches its 1999-2000 series
24 tomorrow at the Capital Theatre.
25 491 All the reasons I have spoken about
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1 in French, the good reasons you chose to visit our
2 city, are also reasons why it is important that the CBC
3 continue to exist and more than exist, continue to
4 thrive. It is a very important part of our lives as
5 Canadians in this microcosm of Canada where we are.
6 492 We live beside a media giant. It is
7 the most competitive media market in North American;
8 and I know where of I speak having worked at the CBC
9 Radio-Canada for 25 years before my retirement in 1997,
10 and now I work for the Windsor Symphony orchestra as
11 its general manager. I realize more than ever the need
12 for the public broadcaster in radio and in television.
13 493 Let's take the two medias separately
14 and talk about television first.
15 494 The CBC originates in Windsor. For
16 many years, it was the only source of local news.
17 There are alternatives now and they do a very good job,
18 but none of them has a newscast which originates here.
19 495 In any case, we need more than one
20 and a unique source of local news on television in
21 Windsor. There must be room in local television for
22 the private and the public broadcaster. Most other
23 cities have them, and we need them more than anyone
24 because of our unique situation on the border.
25 496 Private and CBC have different
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1 mandates and serve the public well in different ways.
2 There has been a great deal written about whether we
3 still need local CBC television stations and I'm not
4 prepared to comment on the need in other centres.
5 However, in Windsor and the surrounding area, there is
6 no doubt whatsoever about the necessity of a local CBC
7 television station. Our dial is dominated by Detroit
8 newscasts. We need local news and local cultural
9 coverage which is impossible on Detroit stations. We
10 deserve a choice, not just a single service.
11 497 To answer your specific question
12 about should CBC programming be different from private
13 broadcasters, I think it is. The CBC has done a great
14 job of bringing Canadian stories to television and they
15 should continue in that vein but they should not become
16 another PBS.
17 498 Our system is different. It is
18 partially public and partially private, and I think it
19 should remain that way here where it's a different
20 system than the United States altogether.
21 499 On the local level, the service to
22 the public is complementary between the two services,
23 between the private. The private stations are doing a
24 good job in their local coverage even though they are
25 not resident here.
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1 500 The local CBC goes further, as it
2 should do, especially in the cultural domain. It has
3 done extensive features on the orchestra, its guest
4 artists, its place within the community, analysis of
5 the good and the bad points, and always heeds the
6 public dialogue. It promotes the efforts of the local
7 cultural organizations. It is of supreme importance to
8 us here on the border, and it also presents a huge
9 opportunity of exposure of Canadian culture and local
10 culture in particular to the huge market of American
11 viewers who appreciate the high calibre of the CBC
12 programs.
13 501 There are many viewers who live in
14 Detroit and are more aware of Canada because of the CBC
15 and television. We know that because they tell us so,
16 and we should do more to promote Canadian artists and
17 culture to the American audience.
18 502 No artistic organization can do this
19 on its own, and believe me I know. We are a showcase
20 of Canadian talent at the Windsor Symphony and yet it
21 is very, very difficult and financially prohibitive for
22 us to try and pierce that American market. But, in
23 partnership with the Canadian media, especially the CBC
24 which is there to provide service, we could accomplish
25 a great deal. We could certainly do a great deal more
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1 than we are doing now.
2 503 If there were any criticism to make
3 of the television service it would be that the local
4 newscast is not long enough. There should be
5 60 minutes at the supper hour. We do not need a
6 60 minute broadcast about local Toronto news at
7 6:00 p.m.
8 504 Because our local newscast lasts only
9 30 minutes and it is the only local programming there
10 is these days on the CBC -- we used to have a lot
11 more -- cultural matters usually take the short end of
12 the stick when it comes to line up. I do understand
13 these are difficult choices to make, but there would be
14 less difficulty if we had 60 minutes of local news.
15 There is no shortage of events and issues to cover.
16 505 The National seems to be an endless
17 repeat, making those of us who miss the local news at
18 5:30 stay up until 11:25 to find out what has happened
19 in our community. This is a disastrous programming
20 choice, in my opinion. The choice to repeat The
21 National yet again at 11:00 p.m. is another sacrifice
22 of the local viewer to compete and lose a rating
23 slugfest with Lloyd Robertson.
24 506 In summary, I think we need more
25 local CBC television, not less.
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1 507 L'importance de Radio-Canada pour la
2 communauté francophone de la région ne peut être
3 exagérée. Si nous sommes baignés dans une mer de
4 médias américains, les francophones le sont d'autant
5 plus dans la mer d'anglophonie et de médias
6 anglophones. La communauté francophone de la région a
7 toute mon admiration pour sa ténacité d'exister et même
8 de fleurir 300 ans après l'arrivée du Sieur Lamothe
9 Cadillac(ph) dans des conditions pas toujours idéales.
10 Je parle de la communauté francophone et non pas du
11 Sieur.
12 --- Laughter / Rires
13 508 Mme GROSSMAN-IANI: Mais, et là je
14 l'écris en noir -- très noir -- nous avons besoin de
15 RDI ici. Vous devriez le mandater comme vous l'avez
16 fait pour TVA. C'est encore plus important que TVA...
17 TVA c'est très bien aussi. Il ne faudra pas l'enlever.
18 Il faut ajouter... il faut forcer le service local de
19 le présenter.
20 509 Nous attendons depuis des années son
21 arrivée. On pensait qu'avec l'achat du cablôdiffuseur
22 local par Cogeco qu'on aurait eu le service. On ne l'a
23 pas et les gens se plaignent. Plusieurs s'en plaignent
24 et je sais que les gens m'en ont parlé. Ils m'en ont
25 parlé ça fait longtemps, mais tout est en vain. Alors,
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1 moi je trouve que c'est un gros manque ici.
2 510 Now to radio.
3 511 Both local and national, French and
4 English are important to me, personally as a listener
5 and also as a manager of a cultural institution. Our
6 local coverage on radio is excellent. I am sure that
7 when our first CD is recorded, we will have much air
8 play on our local airwaves -- n'est-ce-pas, Bruce?
9 512 Our concerts and special events are
10 announced and covered. The audience for most symphony
11 concerts resembles very closely the listeners at the
12 CBC. It's a very good partnership.
13 513 Once again, there are many listeners
14 in the Detroit area and it is to the advantage of
15 Canadian artists to be exposed to that large American
16 audience, both on the national and on the local
17 perspective.
18 514 I have a criticism of one area. It
19 may be something that is -- I don't know if the CRTC is
20 aware of it, but on the communications side there has
21 been a recent tendency to try and negotiate exclusive
22 sponsorships with some cultural organizations. I knew
23 about it. It was a policy when I was there as well. I
24 understand the reasons for it.
25 515 The CBC doesn't want to be taken for
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1 granted. They want to receive the recognition they
2 feel they deserve. But it is a hardship for
3 organizations like the Windsor Symphony Orchestra. We
4 need contact with all media and not just the CBC. The
5 private media have been doing an excellent job of
6 covering our events as well and they should be
7 encouraged to do so and we should not be penalized for
8 that.
9 516 It's very, very strange to me that
10 the CBC will only promote the concerts they sponsor.
11 They will not promote our POPS concert, for example,
12 which was sponsored by the local competition, the
13 private radio station. However, the competition does
14 promote our classics concerts. So I think the CBC is
15 going a little far in its strategy. It is a public
16 service. It should promote all our concerts whether
17 they sponsor them or not.
18 517 One of the most ridiculous things
19 about CBC radio is the fact that it -- this is the
20 English radio -- is the fact that it closes down at
21 6:00 p.m. on Friday night and doesn't open again until
22 Monday morning at whatever time.
23 518 The local CBC station is our
24 bidirectional microphone to the rest of the musical
25 world in Canada. It's very, very important. The fact
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1 that they are part of a network, they can make sure our
2 stories about the orchestra and about life in general
3 here, they can make sure that these are heard in the
4 rest of the country. The fact is that the local CBC
5 station, as a part of this network, is a very great
6 advantage. They also inform us, the national network,
7 so much about the life of the arts and the rest of the
8 country and the world.
9 519 There are too few Canadian voices on
10 our dial -- if you have done our radio dial, and if you
11 haven't you definitely should do it. It is the most
12 amazing radio dial you have ever heard. There are just
13 hundreds of stations from it. There is one French
14 voice and there is one public broadcasting voice as the
15 calibre of the CBC. There is national public radio,
16 but it doesn't compare to our Canadian Broadcasting
17 Corporation and it is a very important service we have
18 here.
19 520 There used to be considerable
20 resources devoted to recording local orchestras. Now
21 these recordings are too few and far between.
22 521 For example, this February we
23 presented an all Canadian program. It was a very
24 ambitious undertaking and most orchestras would not do
25 it on their main series, but we did it. All Canadian
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1 program, all Canadian soloists. Right up the CBC's
2 alley for recording. It was in February, the end of
3 their budget time. They didn't have any money to
4 record it and it is just a big shame really.
5 522 I know the budgets have been
6 shrinking, but some of the choices that are being made
7 are not necessarily in favour of small but very high
8 calibre professional orchestras like ours, so there is
9 less money spent on regional orchestras. I think it is
10 a huge mistake, you know, to record the Toronto
11 Symphony Orchestra. They have all sorts of recordings
12 and are going to make more. The Montreal Symphony
13 Orchestra as well.
14 523 The only chance for smaller
15 orchestras like ours is usually the public broadcaster.
16 They have promised us, however, to record something
17 next season, so we are optimistic.
18 524 Je vais parler un petit peu de CBEF
19 maintenant. Comme une radio locale, c'est un outil
20 essentiel pour l'épanouissement de la communauté
21 francophone de notre région. C'est une radio qui
22 couvre la vie culturelle de façon excellente parce
23 qu'en français, nous savons que la survie ça passe par
24 la culture. La station est près de sa communauté et
25 comprend ses besoins, plus encore qu'en anglais.
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1 525 La station cherche des occasions de
2 sortir dans la communauté pour refléter les activités
3 des divers groupes. Elle travaille avec le monde
4 scolaire et d'autres groupes culturels pour reconnaître
5 le dynamisme des gens. En même temps, elle garde sa
6 crédibilité journalistique qui est une de ses marques
7 de commerce.
8 526 Alors, en conclusion, merci pour
9 l'opportunité de vous adresser la parole et j'aimerais
10 réitérer l'importance de Radio-Canada dans la vie des
11 gens de la région.
12 527 We need more CBC, not less, and we
13 especially need more local programming.
14 528 Thank you.
15 529 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
16 much.
17 530 Susan.
18 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
19 531 MS HAIG: I'm Susan Haig, the
20 Artistic Director of the Windsor Symphony Orchestra. I
21 will speak informally.
22 532 I'm impressed with Mina's ability to
23 do this report and to have a season announcement of our
24 next season tomorrow morning at 9:30.
25 533 This is my thirteenth year in Canada.
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1 I started out with the Canadian Opera Company in
2 Toronto and then spent three years as the Staff
3 Conductor of the Calgary Philharmonic Orchestra before
4 coming to Windsor eight years ago. The CBC has been a
5 very significant part of my whole artistic experience,
6 both personally as an artist and in understanding the
7 artistry of Canada and I continue to be grateful for
8 its existence and intrigued by its potential to further
9 a vital culture, especially in a greatly changing
10 environment.
11 534 I want to say what I have experienced
12 recently with the private networks, because I have been
13 very pleased by the changes toward arts and culture
14 that I have experienced in Windsor. I will start with
15 private radio.
16 535 As this city has changed in its
17 attitude towards arts, arts has become much more a part
18 of community life. They have changed quite instantly
19 so that three or four years ago one of the private
20 radio stations began doing a live arts update on
21 Tuesday mornings about seven to 10 minutes a morning.
22 Last year we were enjoying 10 minutes a week of
23 orchestra notes. This was on private radio.
24 536 MR. RHÉAUME: Excuse me. Could you
25 move your microphone away a little bit.
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1 537 MS HAIG: Sure. Sure. Sorry about
2 that.
3 538 MR. RHÉAUME: I apologize.
4 539 MS HAIG: There have been informal
5 interviews. There have been regular features. I have
6 had 25-minute interviews. We have had this Tuesday
7 morning live update. So I think there is a big change
8 there. If CBC didn't exist, I think we would kind of
9 lope along and the public would find out something
10 about arts.
11 540 Despite the fact that that has been
12 happening, I do feel that there is an essential and
13 exciting role for CBC and a new role in the new
14 millennium. I see changes happening, perhaps a little
15 more gradually than I would like, but I see great
16 changes in attitudes in CBC.
17 541 Now I will go back to the
18 relationship I have enjoyed for the last seven years
19 here. A personal one. Many lively conversations.
20 Many visits to the CBC bureau. Many interviews.
21 Ticket giveaways. CBC hosts at our concerts. CBC
22 reporters experiencing our concerts as part of the
23 audience and talking about it later. This has been
24 invigorating.
25 542 I think that the potential is perhaps
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1 double and triple for us to do more. I think the
2 biggest change would be thinking of the CBC as a
3 collaborator with not-for-profit organizations now in
4 creating a vital culture. I think the old way of
5 looking at it was that CBC was the big father producer
6 from the urban centres and perhaps there was a time
7 when that was appropriate in Canada. But as Canada is
8 coming of age culturally, there is a great diversity of
9 activity, a diversification of activity, a much greater
10 fratility on the local level and just a greater
11 abundance of artists.
12 543 I must say, in my years of being in
13 Canada I don't know if I'm staggered more by the number
14 of fantastic performers for a country this size that
15 are working all over the world or by the lack of
16 awareness of these artists by the broader public. I
17 don't know which is more staggering. I think that it's
18 a good news and a bad news thing, because I think it is
19 extraordinary the number of singers and the number of
20 young performers.
21 544 What I love to see CBC adopt in a
22 continually changing mindset -- and I again say that I
23 see that it is changing and I think it is very
24 exciting -- I believe that it can maximize public
25 access to Canadian ideas, whereas the private networks
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1 could do some. But CBC could be the forward edge, they
2 could be the cutting edge through more in depth
3 conversations with artists. I think the CBC could
4 maximize public awareness of cultural activity. Again,
5 the private networks will do some awareness, but CBC
6 could do more.
7 545 The most critical, I think, the
8 critical role and the critical opportunity, is that the
9 CBC could create public familiarity with Canadian
10 artists, thinkers, authors and creators. Now, this is
11 where I have been most frustrated in the tendency to
12 reflect the networks, to reflect the mainstream. The
13 CBC has also waited until artists are recognized
14 elsewhere.
15 546 I personally experienced a funny
16 thing.
17 547 Once I had been interviewed by the
18 Toronto Star as a kind of up-and-coming artist and
19 they -- you know, I have looked for months -- and,
20 finally, five months after the performance that they
21 were talking about, an article appeared in the Toronto
22 Star, "Susan Haig: Up-and-coming conductor". Right
23 away there were calls from CBC for an interview. Now,
24 why was CBC waiting until -- it meant that they were
25 reading the Toronto Star and getting their material
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1 from that, whereas they should know me. They should be
2 the ones putting it forward. It was very interesting.
3 548 So if the CBC took the first step to
4 create that familiarity by having a more hands-on
5 connection to artists, I think they could then be the
6 leader, that they would then be reflected by other
7 media. I think that would be an exciting role.
8 549 I'm happy to see some other changing
9 assumptions and, again, it's slow, it's slow going. I
10 mean, there has been a strong CBC culture and one of
11 the aspects of that has been a split between arts and
12 news. I mean, I think that happened early in radio.
13 There were the newscasters and then there was the
14 cultural side.
15 550 But the more that's integrated the
16 better. It is very exciting to see arts being looked
17 at as news. Art is news. I would like to see the two
18 words thrown together, although if you put them
19 together too quickly it's "artsnooze" which isn't going
20 to do anybody any good. But I think that arts as news
21 is something we should capitalize on.
22 551 I'm glad to be seeing a broadening
23 conception of arts as all arts activity. I think the
24 distinction between high and low is antiquated, is
25 false and is something we should all throw out. The
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1 more the general public understands that it's a mix of
2 public activity, the better. I think that the FM
3 Morning Show is showing that very well. Just a great
4 mix of music.
5 552 Also I would like to see a continuing
6 redefinition of "culture" as an activity of the people,
7 not as an industry. I think the view of cultural
8 industries as culture has been absolutely dominant in
9 Canada and I just don't understand why it continues and
10 why it is not questioned. I think this means we have
11 been looking in the wrong places to protect industries
12 rather than to foster activity and this is again where
13 CBC can be so, so effective in fostering local
14 activity.
15 553 I believe that an authentic national
16 culture arises from authentic and vigorous activity in
17 a local, and the greater degree to which that is
18 enhanced and affirmed now by the central networks the
19 better, and I think that is where their role can be
20 most exciting.
21 554 I agree with Mina. One thing that
22 must change is CBC must live for the weekends. The
23 weekend is when a national cultural life intensifies
24 naturally. Instead, CBC seems to have adapted itself
25 to the workaday world and adopted a schedule that
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1 reflects the marketplace. In going home on the
2 weekends, it hasn't been there when a locale is
3 creating.
4 555 I think that Monday should be this
5 great thrilling round up of reportage: What went on
6 over the weekend; what happened here; what did we hear;
7 who was there; what did they sound like; what were
8 their ideas? If it can be restructured in such a way
9 that some people work primarily on weekends and it
10 doesn't cost more to have a camera available Saturday
11 night, then of course there would be a greater degree
12 of reflection activity.
13 556 Again, as I said, what can public
14 broadcasting do that the private broadcasters can't do?
15 I think that, again, it gets down to being at the
16 creative edge. The private broadcasters will
17 necessarily focus on pretested products. The CBC can
18 take risks with what is new and creative.
19 557 As an orchestral conductor, we are
20 always doing research and development. Every single
21 concert is untested. Every single one is a risk: it's
22 a new interpretation, it's a new format, it's a new
23 program, it's a new combination of works, it's a new
24 Canadian artist that we haven't worked with. So there
25 is a risk in that.
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1 558 But the CBC, as the public
2 broadcaster, could believe in that risk taking and say
3 "We are going to put it out there anyway, before we
4 have heard it." That would create the old excitement
5 of live radio, live TV, not knowing, the unexpected.
6 559 I also believe the CBC could be
7 fostering public life, fostering citizenship and
8 encouraging its citizens to be engaged in community
9 life. I never got the sense that there was any clarity
10 as to whether CBC ultimately wanted people to be home
11 watching the news at nine o'clock or out at the school
12 board meetings. I think that there has to be an
13 awareness that the more citizens are engaged in public
14 life the better, and scheduling around that is an
15 important thing.
16 560 Finally, I want to say that I think
17 that the whole group at Windsor has been tremendous.
18 The bureau is full or usually full of extremely
19 interesting, creative, questioning people. I have
20 enjoyed the conversations with them. I would just like
21 to have more contact with them. I would like to have
22 constant contact with them.
23 561 I think that in Windsor we have a
24 particularly exciting potential. I don't know if you
25 will have time to walk six blocks down toward the
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1 bridge before you leave and circle around that area,
2 but we have a potential west downtown cultural district
3 that could be extraordinary on the border of Canada.
4 There is going to be a new art gallery there. There is
5 a whole campusy potential feel for that area of town if
6 we also got a museum, some sort of music hall. I won't
7 go into -- you know, no conflict of interest there.
8 562 But CBC is perfectly positioned
9 adjacent to this area. I would love to see in four
10 years constant innovative programs that are created
11 here with cameras, with microphones right in there.
12 Quick talk that week. Not something totally
13 prescripted, but experimental. I think as the border,
14 we should be a great border showcase, just typing all
15 the Canadian artists right into the states.
16 563 I think it could happen and I would
17 love to see it happen.
18 564 Thank you very much.
19 565 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
20 much, Ms Haig. Thank you both for being here.
21 566 Mister --
22 567 MR. PALMER: David Palmer.
23 568 THE CHAIRPERSON: -- David Palmer.
24 569 Mr. Palmer, as my colleague may have
25 explained, we had such a good participation here that
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1 we split the list today so we came up to the end of the
2 list a little earlier than planned. So there were many
3 more people in the room, not to give you the impression
4 that no one came today.
5 570 I'm Joan Pennefather, I'm a
6 Commissioner; and Barbara Cam is a Commissioner; and
7 our legal counsel, Donald Rhéaume.
8 571 In my earlier remarks, as I said also
9 to Ms Grossman and Ms Haig, we are here to hear what
10 you have to say so we are not asking questions. To
11 give everybody the maximum time we did ask to keep
12 remarks until around 10 minutes. We are here to hear
13 what you have to say about the CBC, your expectations
14 and views.
15 572 So without further ado.
16 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
17 573 MR. PALMER: First of all, I thank
18 you for this opportunity.
19 574 Music at the University of Windsor
20 very much appreciates the opportunity to speak about
21 its concerns with the Canadian Broadcasting
22 Corporation.
23 575 I should say that I have talked with
24 Ms Haig yesterday about her presentation and her, I
25 think, fullness of ideas and eloquence in expressing
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1 them I think are all aspects that we endorse. It's
2 very, very exciting to work with Ms Haig as a colleague
3 in our music activities here.
4 576 Overall, in both television and
5 radio, we would affirm that the CBC should be doing
6 what private broadcasters cannot or will not do, that
7 is, provide a commercial-free presentation of the most
8 interesting television and radio material that the
9 country has to offer from all parts of the country.
10 This needn't be limited to so-called highbrow material.
11 It should include a broad spectrum of music and drama,
12 especially given the countries growing ethnic mix, a
13 wider celebration of the cultures in the country would
14 be welcome.
15 577 Personally, a program I enjoyed a few
16 years ago was hosted by Sal Ferrarus(ph) in Vancouver
17 and featured music with Latin American and African
18 roots. I also think of Marcel Beneteau who is
19 pioneering work and researching and recording the music
20 of the francophone community of this area and was
21 partially sponsored by the CBC. We applaud that kind
22 of thing.
23 578 MME GROSSMAN-IANI: Radio-Canada.
24 579 MR. PALMER: Radio-Canada. Of
25 course. My apologize.
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1 --- Laughter / Rires
2 580 MME GROSSMAN-IANI: No, no. It's
3 just a little joke.
4 581 MR. PALMER: In the medium of radio,
5 we feel that the CBC does fulfil its mandate to the
6 best of its resources and shudder at the prospect of
7 cultural life in Canada without it, even taking into
8 account the unpredictability of the current
9 programming.
10 582 We would like to acknowledge the
11 media sponsorship by the local CBC in advertising
12 university-produced concerts in return for a promotion
13 in our program booklets.
14 583 Certainly, I would endorse Ms Haig's
15 comments about the local CBC and how supportive and
16 encouraging they have been in promoting local events.
17 584 That being said, we would like to
18 express a concern about the classical music program.
19 We would wish for more time given to concerts featuring
20 Canadian artists who represent less frequently heard
21 regions of the country. Over many years now, my
22 colleagues and I have attended programs in this area
23 that we thought deserving of wider dissemination in
24 terms of excellence of performance, remarkability of
25 repertoire and/or significance topically.
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1 585 Often we have said to one another,
2 "Isn't it too bad this concert couldn't have been
3 broadcast?" The growing number of such high-level
4 performances presented in this region must truly
5 correspond to concerts given in similar centres in the
6 country, that is, remote enough from CBC production
7 centres to prove too costly to travel to for broadcast
8 purposes, which results we feel in an atypical
9 representation of the concert offerings in the country.
10 586 It is apparent however that budget
11 cuts to the CBC are affecting its ability, in radio
12 particularly, to fulfil its mandate. It's noteworthy
13 that in recent years evening Radio One programming has
14 given over more and more to repeat broadcasts or to
15 DJ-type shows at that time of the night, for instance.
16 Even Ideas, the program Ideas, is doing more and more
17 repeat programming. The main afternoon show,
18 Richardson's Roundup, is almost entirely made up of
19 repeat material. We lost local weekend programming
20 some time ago, as Ms Haig mentioned, and so on.
21 587 The present climate and increase in
22 local concert pick-up, as mentioned earlier, might seem
23 like a pipe dream, especially when CBC is now talking
24 about Radio Three for younger audiences.
25 588 So in conclusion, we feel that
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1 clearly the CBC needs more funding and not less.
2 589 Thank you again.
3 590 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Thank
4 you for coming, Mr. Palmer. Thank you both for coming.
5 591 As I explained also earlier, we
6 invite the CBC to come to the table at the end of the
7 presentations to make any comments they wish to make.
8 They did so earlier, but I would invite Mr. Taylor back
9 if he wanted to offer reflection on your remarks.
10 REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
11 592 MR. TAYLOR: Reflection might lead to
12 debate on some of the remarks. I will refrain.
13 593 I would like to simply thank
14 Mr. Palmer, Susan and Mina for their comments, and the
15 Commission for the opportunity.
16 594 Even though my responsibilities are
17 limited to television these days, please be assured
18 that your comments, challenges and suggestions will be
19 carried forward to all of my colleagues, both in
20 English and French radio and French television.
21 595 Thank you very much.
22 596 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
23 much.
24 597 I think that draws this portion of
25 the public consultation to a close. Thank you all.
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1 Thank you again to our technical crew and to my
2 colleagues and to the participants for joining us
3 today.
4 598 We reconvene again at 6:00 until
5 10:00 this evening, and you are most welcome to join us
6 if you wish to continue to hear the comments.
7 599 Thank you.
8 --- Recess at 1645 / Suspension à 1645
9 --- Upon resuming at 1647 / Reprise à 1647
10 600 THE CHAIRPERSON: All right. Antonio
11 Dominato.
12 601 MS DOMINATO: Antonia --
13 602 THE CHAIRPERSON: Antonia.
14 603 MS DOMINATO: Antonia Dominato.
15 604 THE CHAIRPERSON: -- Dominato.
16 605 MS DOMINATO: Right.
17 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
18 606 MS DOMINATO: First of all, what
19 happened to Adrienne Clarkson? Replacement for
20 Peter Gzowski is dreadful. Those two people -- you
21 know, Peter Gzowski was working. So when these two
22 came on they said, "Oh, no, no, it's not going to
23 follow the same pattern as Peter Gzowski. We are going
24 to do our own thing."
25 607 If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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1 That's my attitude. And I have tried and tried to
2 listen to them and they turn me right off.
3 608 Rita MacNeil, why was she let go
4 after three years? Tommy Hunter, Front Page Challenge.
5 609 Let's face it, the majority of the
6 people that listen to these programs and watch TV,
7 these programs, are the seniors, are the ones that are
8 a little older. The young people, they have all kinds
9 of stations in Detroit to listen to. If you have the
10 pipe dream that you are going to draw all these young
11 kids, I'm afraid you have got -- because the majority
12 that listen to this are your seniors or the
13 mid-seniors.
14 610 First of all, up here with
15 Peter Gzowski, the kids are all in school or they have
16 jobs or whatever, or other people have jobs, so they
17 are not going to be listening to him. I know
18 Peter Gzowski left on his own, but my God you must have
19 had better people than the two that you did hire.
20 611 Tommy Hunter, really wonderful. They
21 brought in musicians.
22 612 Rita MacNeil. Now, if you want to
23 appeal to young people, she was bringing unknown bands.
24 So you got Rita MacNeil which drew in the older group.
25 Then, the younger group, when they heard that all these
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1 bands were coming, they zoomed in.
2 613 I mean, whoever makes these
3 decisions, you often wonder. I'm still madder than
4 hell about in 1990 when we lost CBC local news for four
5 years.
6 614 Now, the other one that's really
7 bugging me is CBC news comes on at ten o'clock with
8 Peter Mansbridge. Great. Then what's -- I can't try
9 to think of the name of the program after that.
10 It's -- oh, you know, the little tidbits that they do
11 on it. Is it The National? What is it?
12 615 MR. TAYLOR: The Magazine.
13 616 MS DOMINATO: The Magazine. That's
14 it, dear.
15 617 That's fine. I'm not objecting to
16 that. I love that. That 10 hour to 11 hour is fine
17 618 But then why in God's name do you
18 have to bring back Peter Mansbridge at 11:00? We just
19 saw him at ten o'clock. So what do we have to do in
20 the local area? We have to wait until 11:30 to see our
21 local news and see a repeat of ten o'clock. That is
22 stupid. The bigwigs up in Toronto or Ottawa, wherever
23 the decisions are made, are crazy. They are not
24 thinking of us.
25 619 I love Peter Mansbridge. Okay. We
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1 don't want to get rid of him. Then we have the -- what
2 is it again?
3 620 MR. TAYLOR: The Magazine.
4 621 MS DOMINATO: The Magazine.
5 622 I'm getting old. I'm 70-years old,
6 but I'm still madder than hell about some things, I'll
7 tell you.
8 623 The Magazine. Okay. And then to
9 bring Peter Mansbridge back -- can't you see what I'm
10 talking about? And then we have to sit around here
11 until 11:30 waiting for our local news, because I'm
12 such a news junkie and I have told them before when I'm
13 out and about doing my things I tape it. I tape the
14 5:30 news. I tape what used to be the eleven o'clock
15 news, but now it's 11:30. And Midday, my God, I can't
16 miss Midday. I just love Midday. I would tape that.
17 624 Again, who is watching Midday? They
18 are doing a wonderful program, but you have to keep in
19 mind it's hard to get the young people to tune in.
20 They have already established their listening habits.
21 They are with the American stations because we are
22 flooded with the American stations. They are listening
23 to others, okay? They have the university things and
24 so on.
25 625 That's about what really bugs me.
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1 626 And I love CBC, and I certainly don't
2 want commercials. Forget it. We have been known for
3 non-commercial TV, non-commercial radio. I certainly
4 don't want that.
5 627 Of course we have a wonderful guy,
6 Bruce knows that, it's Paul Vassey. He is super.
7 Don't you dare take him away from us unless you are
8 offering him more money and he wants to leave us. But
9 he is wonderful.
10 628 I wake up in the morning and I reach
11 over and turn on the radio at six o'clock. All three
12 radios in my apartment are on CBC. I don't know what
13 is going on on the others. And the same in my car, CBC
14 AM and FM.
15 629 Sheila Rogers. Everybody was hoping
16 she would replace Peter Gzowski because she had been on
17 with Peter Gzowski. They were the same type. They
18 were the kind that you wanted to listen to. Well, you
19 give us this other guy -- what's his name? And then
20 Averil. They are terrible. I'm sure you must have
21 gotten many complaints, at least letters to the editor
22 that I have read and columns by columnists from the
23 Globe and Mail and Toronto Star. You know? You can't
24 compare them.
25 630 There must have been better
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1 personalities you could have hired than those two to
2 replace Peter Gzowski, because, oh God, Peter Gzowski
3 was talking to guys in their air conditioned
4 tractor-trailers out on the farm. You would be
5 listening to some truck driver, you would be listening
6 to some woman in her kitchen. And I miss listening to
7 the people from the north, the Inuits. He had such a
8 wonderful rapport with those people up there that were
9 running the radio stations. Oh. Really I felt so
10 Canadian when I was listening to him. I really did.
11 He just made you feel wonderful.
12 631 I know we can't replace
13 Peter Gzowski, but there must have been some better
14 than -- I'm sorry, but there must have been some.
15 632 But those were my beefs and I
16 thought, well, I'll try and say my two cents just to
17 you people and if not I was going to write it down and
18 give it to you in the mail, but I have written down the
19 points here.
20 633 You really made a mistake in letting
21 go Adrienne Clarkson. I don't know when she is on. I
22 can't find her. I check my TV Guide every night and I
23 don't see her. She was wonderful. The programs, the
24 music and the art.
25 634 That was another one, Arts &
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1 Entertainment on Sundays, you know? I don't know who
2 the bigwigs are that make these decisions, but I'm very
3 unhappy. The only one I'm happy with is Paul Vassey.
4 He is a good, familiar voice, you know, Bruce? And
5 then these other people that they have brought in and
6 then the wonderful TV programs.
7 635 This is what you have to remember,
8 that it's, you know, our age group, the seniors, okay,
9 and the ones in their fifties that were listening to
10 these things. To try to jazz it all up, you know, I
11 don't know if you are going to get that many young
12 people to switch to us.
13 636 I did read an article that this
14 person is a faithful follower of CBC. Why? Because at
15 home when she was a child CBC radio was on all the time
16 and it just grew into her system. So now as an adult,
17 as a mother, a homemaker at home, she has CBC. The
18 kids might not like it, but she says it stays on CBC.
19 637 And just to be a little personal.
20 When I was growing up my dear dad, God bless him, would
21 lie down on the couch on Sunday afternoons listening to
22 Texaco live from the Metropolitan Opera. That's how I
23 got to love opera because we would go over, thinking he
24 was asleep, we were going to switch the channel.
25 "Don't touch that radio." And we didn't. So every
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1 Saturday afternoon we were listening to the
2 Metropolitan Opera live from New York, from Texaco, you
3 know.
4 638 So that's what I had to say.
5 639 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, thank you.
6 Thank you for --
7 640 MS DOMINATO: But I do hope you get
8 that message across to the bigwigs. They are the --
9 641 MR. TAYLOR: I will take it back to
10 them --
11 642 MS DOMINATO: You will, too, eh,
12 dear?
13 643 MR. TAYLOR: Yes.
14 644 MS DOMINATO: He knows how hard I
15 fought for the CBC, out there in the cold in December.
16 "Sign the petition! Save our station!"
17 --- Laughter / Rires
18 645 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
19 much.
20 646 MS DOMINATO: You're welcome. Nice
21 to be -- and thank you for listening. I was afraid for
22 a minute that you were going to kick me out because the
23 time was up.
24 647 THE CHAIRPERSON: No. That's not why
25 we are here.
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1 --- Recess at 1700 / Suspension à 1700
2 --- Upon resuming at 1800 / Reprise à 1800
3 648 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Alors, je pense qu'on
4 va commencer. I think we will start our session.
5 649 Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
6 Welcome to this public consultation on the CBC.
7 650 My name is Joan Pennefather. I'm a
8 Commissioner at the CRTC. As you have already noticed,
9 my colleague, Barbara Cram, who is also a Commissioner,
10 is in the next room. We have had such an excellent
11 response here in Windsor that we have divided the group
12 into two as we did this afternoon.
13 651 We are here to gather your views and
14 comments on CBC radio and television.
15 652 In your opinion, how should the
16 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation fulfil its role in
17 the coming years?
18 653 The CBC is a national public service,
19 broadcasting in English as well as in French. It plays
20 an important role in the Canadian Broadcasting system.
21 654 Today, many elements are constantly
22 being added to the broadcasting system as new
23 technologies multiply, converge, open up new horizons
24 and increasingly offer new services. In this context,
25 we want to know what are your needs and expectations as
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1 viewers and listeners of the CBC.
2 655 Nous sommes ici pour recueillir vos
3 points de vue et vos commentaires sur la radio et la
4 télévision de Radio-Canada. Comment croyez-vous que
5 Radio-Canada devrait remplir son rôle dans les années à
6 venir? Voilà le genre de questions auxquelles nous
7 voulons entendre vos réponses.
8 656 Il est très important pour le Conseil
9 d'entendre ce que vous avez à dire à ce sujet. Il ne
10 faut pas oublier que le CRTC est un organisme public au
11 service des citoyens et citoyennes. À ce titre, il a
12 une responsabilité envers eux. C'est pourquoi mes
13 collègues-conseillers et moi-même trouvons essentiel de
14 venir vous rencontrer.
15 657 Nous sommes donc présents dans onze
16 villes canadiennes du 9 au 18 mars inclusivement pour
17 tenir cette série de consultations régionales d'un bout
18 à l'autre du pays.
19 658 It is indeed very important that the
20 Commission hears what you have to say. We must not
21 lose sight of the fact that the CRTC is a public
22 organization that serves Canadian citizens. In this
23 capacity, we are responsible to you. This is why my
24 fellow Commissioners and myself find it vital to come
25 and meet with you to discuss these issues and why we
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1 are holding this series of regional consultations, from
2 one end of the country to the other, in 11 Canadian
3 cities, from March 9 to March 18 inclusive.
4 659 These consultations are designed to
5 give you a chance, on the eve of the new millennium, to
6 express your opinion on the CBC's role, the programming
7 it offers and the direction it should take at the
8 national, regional and local levels.
9 660 Through these consultations we hope
10 to enter into an open dialogue with you and to hear
11 your concerns. Your comments will form part of the
12 public record which will be added to the record of the
13 public hearing on the CBC that will begin in Hull next
14 May 25th.
15 661 At this upcoming hearing in May, the
16 Commission will examine the CBC's application for the
17 renewal of its licences including radio, television and
18 its specialty services, Newsworld and Réseau de
19 l'information. You can also take part in that public
20 hearing by sending your written comments to the CRTC.
21 If you wish to do so, please remember to refer to the
22 specific licence renewals being examined when you file
23 your comments.
24 662 Tous vos commentaires feront partie
25 du dossier public. Il sera lui-même ajouté à celui de
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1 l'audience publique qui s'ouvrira à Hull le 25 mai
2 prochain. C'est au cours de cette audience que le
3 Conseil étudiera les demandes pour renouveler les
4 licences de radio et de télévision de Radio-Canada
5 ainsi que de ses services spécialisés: RDI et
6 Newsworld.
7 663 Vous pouvez aussi participer à cette
8 audience en faisant parvenir une intervention écrite au
9 CRTC. Vos observations devront alors porter
10 spécifiquement sur le renouvellement des licences en
11 question.
12 664 Now I would like to come to this
13 evening's consultations.
14 665 Please allow me to introduce a member
15 of our staff who is assisting us in this room,
16 Donald Rhéaume, our legal counsel. Rod Lahay is in the
17 other room with my colleague. Rod is from Broadcast
18 Planning Service.
19 666 Please feel free to call on them with
20 any questions you might have about the process today or
21 any other matter.
22 667 So that everyone will have a chance
23 to speak, we ask that you limit your presentation to
24 10 minutes.
25 668 As these consultations are a forum
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1 designed especially for you, and we want to listen to
2 as many participants as possible, we will not ask any
3 questions unless we need clarification.
4 669 Pour que vous ayez tous l'occasion de
5 vous faire entendre, nous vous demandons de limiter
6 votre présentation à 10 minutes. Ces consultations
7 sont votre tribune à vous et nous voulons être à
8 l'écoute du plus grand nombre possible d'intervenants.
9 Nous ne poserons donc pas de questions, sauf si nous
10 avons besoin de clarification.
11 670 Après vos interventions, les
12 représentants des stations locales de Radio-Canada
13 auront également droit de parole puisque ce sont les
14 premières intéressées par les questions que nous avons
15 abordées aujourd'hui.
16 671 At the end of this session,
17 representatives from the local CBC stations will have a
18 chance to offer their views as they are naturally very
19 interested in the issues we are discussing here today.
20 672 Just before we start with our first
21 participant, I will ask M. Rhéaume just to explain the
22 déroulement, the way the evening will proceed.
23 673 MR. RHÉAUME: Thank you, Madam Chair.
24 674 We will be calling two groups,
25 actually, those that can follow on the agenda.
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1 675 We will start with Mr. Jonathan
2 Sachs; Jane Cacciavillani --
3 676 THE CHAIRPERSON: If you would come
4 to the table as your name is called. We will bring
5 10 people to the table at once.
6 677 Are you Jane?
7 678 MR. RHÉAUME: If you want to join us
8 at the table.
9 679 THE CHAIRPERSON: Come on down, as
10 they say.
11 680 MR. RHÉAUME: Mme Nicole Germain;
12 David Shragge; Dean La Bute; Sarah Trusty; Emil Nakhle;
13 Dr. Alfie Morgan; and, Mr. Paul Rousseau.
14 681 I guess Mr. Sachs is not here.
15 682 Mr. Peter Wilkinson; Howard Pawley.
16 Kindly join us.
17 683 I guess we will start with
18 Jane Cacciavillani.
19 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
20 684 MS CACCIAVILLANI: The CBC is
21 important to Canada in many ways (off microphone/sans
22 microphone...) Canadian culture and gives us a
23 Canadian perspective in journalism, both to us and to
24 the world.
25 685 There is also a great deal of
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1 material that educates the public in different areas,
2 whether it is scientific advances, social issues,
3 business and financial and economic issues, just to
4 name a few.
5 686 To quote Rex Murphy, the mandate is
6 to provide a neutral exchange of familiarities between
7 the regions.
8 687 Of course every mature country at the
9 end of the twentieth century has a public broadcaster.
10 I think all we really need is the political will from
11 the governments that support the CBC, but I will talk
12 more about that later on.
13 688 The thing I like best about the CBC
14 is that it cannot be bought out by private interests.
15 Conrad Black, for one, has been buying a lot of media
16 and I think that is far too much concentration. I
17 think it is refreshing to have the CBC and have that
18 different voice to listen to. A big amen to that.
19 689 As for the direction it should take,
20 I do believe that the CBC needs to be funded more
21 solidly. CBC TV I think could benefit from this a lot
22 because I think that if they had more money they could
23 get away from commercials and have their outlook be
24 more purely public and it would have more public
25 appeal.
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1 690 Right at the moment, CBC TV gets
2 50 per cent of its money from ads and I just don't
3 think that's the way to go. But, like I said, if it
4 was more solidly funded, we wouldn't have this problem.
5 691 I also like the idea of CBC
6 Radio Three for youth. It can do no harm, and I think
7 probably a lot of good for the corporation, to secure a
8 new, loyal audience. The only problem with this is
9 that for the financing money would have to be diverted
10 from its present concerns.
11 692 In my opinion, if there is to be a
12 new network -- and I know there has to be, there is no
13 doubt about it -- then let it be funded with new
14 government money. But in order for that to happen, I
15 think we as citizens are going to have to speak loud
16 and clear on that issue.
17 693 Another issue that I find too
18 important to ignore is the governance.
19 694 First of all, I don't think that we
20 need any government appointees on the Board. I think
21 there needs to be a total arm's-length relationship
22 between the CBC and the people it covers, including the
23 government and especially the government. No other
24 organization that I can think of is run quite like
25 that.
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1 695 As for the current labour trouble, I
2 think the reason that it is happening -- or I know
3 because I listen to Cross Country Check-up with Rex
4 Murphy, and he stated that the reason for the trouble
5 was that the CBC is no longer sure of exactly what it
6 should be doing; and, again, it is because of this
7 funding issue. I really do think we need, for that
8 reason, to really, truly make our voices heard.
9 696 This cannot continue. The CBC has
10 had a third, a third of its budget cut out. This is
11 not the way to go. We need to support it and we need
12 to write letters and do whatever we can to support the
13 CBC and tell the government that we value it.
14 697 Thank you very much.
15 698 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much
16 for your intervention.
17 699 Now we will go to our next
18 participant.
19 700 M. RHÉAUME: Mme Nicole Germain.
20 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
21 701 Mme NICOLE GERMAIN: Mesdames,
22 messieurs, bonsoir.
23 702 D'abord, au nom de la communauté
24 francophone du sud-ouest de l'Ontario, nous tenons à
25 vous remercier d'avoir pensé à notre région pour les
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1 consultations. Souvent dans le sud-ouest, on nous
2 oublie. Alors, c'est très, très apprécié. Nous vous
3 remercions de nous permettre de donner nos opinions et
4 commentaires concernant la télévision et radio de
5 Radio-Canada.
6 703 Permettez-moi de vous présenter les
7 gens qui m'accompagnent: Carole Gagnon et Micheline
8 Boisvert. Finalement, voici nos opinions et
9 commentaires: un, les compressions de la Société
10 Radio-Canada; deux, la radio de CBEF; trois, la
11 télévision française; quatre, la station FM; et cinq,
12 le Réseau de l'information continue.
13 704 Les compressions à la Société Radio-
14 Canada. Nous regrettons les compressions budgétaires
15 qu'a subies la Société Radio-Canada depuis 1990, tant à
16 la radio et à la télé, française et anglaise. Le
17 personnel doué n'est pas très nombreux. Quand l'un
18 d'entre eux tombe malade et qu'on doit réaménager toute
19 la journée, c'est tout un branlement pour permettre
20 l'horaire prévue.
21 705 Nous avons une grande crainte pour la
22 survie de la station de CBEF parce que CBEF c'est bon
23 en français. Depuis les compressions budgétaires,
24 seulement les communautés des régions de Montréal, de
25 Québec et d'Ottawa peuvent être parrainées par la
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1 Société Radio-Canada et accueillent de grands artistes
2 francophones. Une région comme la nôtre a besoin de
3 l'aide de la Société Radio-Canada afin de nous
4 permettre d'assister, nous aussi, à des grands
5 spectacles et des grands concerts, et ce, gratuitement.
6 706 En l'an 2001, la région célébrait le
7 60e anniversaire de la plus vieille communauté
8 française permanente en Ontario. Le Comité
9 organisateur des fêtes du tricentenaire établira
10 bientôt sa programmation. Nous comptons sur la SRC
11 afin de nous permettre d'offrir de grands concerts dans
12 cet événement extraordinaire.
13 707 La radio de CBEF. Dans l'ensemble,
14 la programmation de CBEF est très satisfaisante. La
15 communauté francophone de la région apprécie les
16 émissions produites localement et apprécie aussi
17 l'engagement des intervenants et des artisans de la
18 radio qui, de plus, est incorporé à nulle part dans la
19 province. Nous en sommes convaincus, nous en sommes
20 fiers.
21 708 À notre radio, nous nous identifions
22 parce qu'elle est ce qu'elle est et qu'elle reflète
23 bien le profil de la communauté, mais il y a de la
24 place à de l'amélioration. Voici quelques suggestions.
25 709 Pour le publique jeunesse:
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1 conscients du taux d'assimilation toujours en
2 croissance, que l'on reprenne la formule de l'émission
3 "Club Sandwich" afin de permettre à notre jeunesse de
4 produire une émission faite par eux et à leur image.
5 Nos adolescents sont créatifs et imaginatifs. Qui
6 d'autres qu'eux pour divertir leurs pairs? On sort
7 cette émission comme une étape de l'emploi dans le
8 domaine de la radiophonie.
9 710 Nous sommes conscients aussi que ce
10 n'est pas le CRTC qui assurera le suivi à cette requête
11 mais bien la Société Radio-Canada et au gouvernement
12 qui devrait injecté de nouveaux argents à ce genre de
13 programmation. Et pourquoi pas ne penser à la
14 programmation pour des plus jeunes?
15 711 La Société Radio-Canada a le mandat
16 d'informer et de divertir mais aussi de permettre à sa
17 collectivité de grandir et de se développer, surtout en
18 milieu minoritaire. Nos jeunes doivent pouvoir parler
19 et travailler tout en s'amusant en français, à
20 l'extérieur des murs de la salle de classe, et ce, dans
21 son milieu. La Société Radio-Canada peut jouer un très
22 grand rôle à ce niveau.
23 712 Le public adulte: qu'il y ait plus
24 d'émissions pour les goûts, et ce, en tout temps ou à
25 une heure déterminée -- je donne des exemples d'heures
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1 précises et différents choix de musique -- ce qui
2 permettrait à l'auditeur d'être à l'écoute au moment où
3 il a intérêt à ce genre de musique au lieu de fermer
4 l'appareil complètement parce qu'il n'aime pas le début
5 de l'émission.
6 713 Les émissions d'information locale
7 sont très appropriées et nous croyons que la communauté
8 en est plus que satisfaite. Nous réalisons les grands
9 efforts qui sont faits pour la couverture des
10 événements d'intérêt général malgré le peu de
11 personnel.
12 714 Durant les fins de semaine, le
13 bulletin de nouvelles locales est à midi le samedi.
14 C'est le dernier de la fin de semaine. La communauté
15 francophone continue de respirer durant la fin de
16 semaine et souhaiterait être au courant de ce qui se
17 passe dans sa communauté toute la fin de semaine
18 durant.
19 715 Le "Midi-Magazine" devrait être
20 allongé d'une demi-heure. Cette émission agrémente le
21 repos du midi. Les sujets intéressants y sont traités
22 avec des gens de chez nous par une animatrice de chez
23 nous et le choix musical est approprié et divertissant.
24 716 Bravo à l'émission "Ontario 30" qui
25 reflète bien les intérêts de la communauté franco-
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1 ontarienne à l'échelle provinciale. Elle devrait avoir
2 une durée d'une heure afin d'approfondir le ou les
3 dossiers de la journée. Souvent, nous restons sur
4 notre fin. En général, ce que nous demandons c'est
5 plus de temps d'antenne produit au niveau local ou
6 provincial. Pour ce faire, il faut augmenter le budget
7 et le personnel.
8 717 Les sportifs en veulent un peu aussi.
9 Pourquoi ne pas remettre à la radio la soirée du
10 hockey? Comment se fait-il que les émissions spéciales
11 telles que la couverture des élections et du budget
12 sont diffusées pendant des heures d'antenne locale et
13 non pendant les heures de diffusion en provenance du
14 réseau? Serait-ce parce que les auditeurs des régions
15 sont plus fidèles, et par conséquent, la cote d'écoute
16 plus élevée? Nous en sommes convaincus. À notre avis,
17 c'est justement ce qui justifie la requête que nous
18 voulons faire: plus d'heures d'antenne au niveau
19 local.
20 718 À la télévision française: les
21 émissions d'information telles que "Le Point" et "Le
22 Téléjournal" sont très appropriées et nous informent de
23 l'actualité nationale et internationale. La couverture
24 complète du niveau national des élections du référendum
25 au Québec, est-ce indispensable? Nous ne croyons pas
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1 que l'inverse est vrai. Je ne crois pas que l'on
2 présente les élections en Ontario ou au Manitoba...
3 qu'on les présente au Québec pendant toute la soirée.
4 Je pense qu'on devrait produire, faire un grand
5 reportage ou que si on le fait au complet, qu'on le
6 fasse partout au Canada. Nous désirons être tenus au
7 courant de ce qui se passe au Québec, bien sûr, mais
8 une soirée entière dans le contexte d'une élection, je
9 pense que c'est trop.
10 719 Le "Ce Soir" remplit son mandat
11 d'informer la communauté. Cette émission d'information
12 doit être à l'image de la communauté franco-ontarienne.
13 Par conséquent, elle doit couvrir l'information
14 ontarienne et l'intérêt public des franco-ontariens.
15 Souvent, on oublie aussi le sud-ouest. L'information
16 internationale passe avant l'information provinciale et
17 nationale.
18 720 Les bulletins radio et "Le
19 Téléjournal" et plusieurs autres stations couvrent
20 l'international toute la journée. Il serait possible
21 de couvrir l'international à l'émission "Ce Soir" sans
22 pour ceci empêcher la couverture provinciale en
23 ajoutant une demi-heure à cette émission.
24 721 Le "Ce Soir en Couleur" se doit aussi
25 de refléter la communauté franco-ontarienne. Les
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1 sujets sont intéressants et informatifs. Par contre,
2 on apporte souvent des références du Québec. Pourquoi
3 ne pas ajouter les références de l'Ontario français si
4 c'est possible?
5 722 La violence est encore trop présente
6 à la télévision. On doit la rayer complètement des
7 ondes. Les téléromans ne manquent pas. Il y en a pour
8 tous les goûts.
9 723 Les émissions telles "La Facture",
10 "Enjeux", "Lisa", "Les Trois Mousquetaires", "La Vraie
11 Vie" sont très appropriées, intéressantes,
12 informatives, divertisssantes. Elles ont des
13 téléspectateurs assidus. Par contre, ce qui manque ce
14 sont des émissions de variété telles "L'Écuyer" et "La
15 Fureur" pour le public un peu plus rangé.
16 724 On dit que la population est
17 vieillissante et que les aînés représenteront le tiers
18 de la population. Pensons à eux dans la programmation
19 télévisuelle en offrant des émissions qui les touchent:
20 santé, droit, logement, voyage, sports, divertissement,
21 danse, musique... la journée durant, pas seulement
22 l'avant-midi.
23 725 Ce qui manque aussi pour le public en
24 général ce sont des émissions touchant l'individu, des
25 relations humaines genre talk-show où le public est
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1 invité à partager avec l'appui d'un professionnel sur
2 un sujet donné.
3 726 La station FM: encore une fois de
4 plus, la région du sud-ouest de l'Ontario n'est pas de
5 la partie. La station FM de langue française n'est
6 diffusée qu'au Québec, au Nouveau-Brunswick et dans les
7 régions d'Ottawa et de Toronto seulement. La province
8 ne serait pas Toronto. C'est inacceptable. La région
9 du sud-ouest veut être desservie comme toutes les
10 autres régions. Nous ne voulons pas être les éternels
11 derniers. Nous aussi nous voulons développer nos goûts
12 et prendre plaisir à tout ce qui existe, côté culture.
13 727 Le Réseau de l'information continue,
14 le RDI: la bête noire pour nous. Pas moyen de la
15 mettre en cage. La réception de RDI doit être
16 disponible d'est à ouest au Canada, sans exception.
17 Dans ce dossier, le CRTC a un grand rôle à jouer. Il
18 est inacceptable que la diffusion du RDI soit laissée à
19 la discrétion du cablôdistributeur et serve à une
20 région donnée.
21 728 Dans une région comme la nôtre où la
22 population francophone se chiffre à plus de 35 000,
23 dont un nombre important provenant d'ailleurs, et pour
24 eux, le RDI est le seul moyen d'avoir des nouvelles de
25 leur pays d'origine et de leur famille. À ce nombre
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1 s'ajoute un grand nombre de francophiles. Nous sommes
2 la plus grande communauté au Canada à ne pas recevoir
3 le service.
4 729 La communauté francophone de la
5 région a été plus que patiente dans le dossier et il
6 est grand temps de passer à l'action. Nous demandons
7 donc au CRTC que le CRTC prenne les moyens nécessaires
8 afin d'assurer la télédiffusion du RDI dans notre
9 région. De plus, que ça ne se fasse pas sur le dos de
10 d'autres canaux de langue française.
11 730 Le CRTC doit obliger le
12 cablôdistributeur de la région, Cogeco, à rendre
13 disponsible la réception du RDI, et ce, dans les plus
14 brefs délais.
15 731 Nous laissons à nos concitoyens de
16 langue anglaise d'apporter les points de vue concernant
17 la programmation anglaise à la Société Radio-Canada.
18 732 La Société Radio-Canada étant une
19 société d'état doit assurer un contenu canadien et a le
20 mandat de desservir la population canadienne avant
21 tout. La câblodistribution a ouvert les portes de nos
22 foyers à toute une série d'émissions provenant
23 d'ailleurs. Chez nous, nous sommes inondés d'émissions
24 et de réseaux américains.
25 733 Il est primordial, vital, pour
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1 l'ensemble des Canadiens et pour la communauté
2 francophone de la région que la SRC reste une société
3 d'état, radio et télévision française et anglaise avec
4 un contenu canadien. La Société Radio-Canada est
5 unique. C'est à notre avis la seule façon de nous
6 reconnaître et d'entendre parler de nous.
7 734 Privatiser la Radio-Canada est
8 inacceptable. Que notre gouvernement y ait pensé
9 seulement c'est un message à son désengagement au
10 développement de toutes les communautés du pays. À
11 notre avis, le gouvernement doit réinvestir dans la
12 Société Radio-Canada et non la privatiser.
13 735 Le document que je vous remets à la
14 fin de ma présentation est publique. Si ça peut vous
15 être utile lors de vos démarches et auprès d'aussi la
16 Société Radio-Canada, il sera disponible. Soyez
17 assurés de notre collaboration. Merci pour les suivis.
18 736 En terminant, au nom de la communauté
19 francophone de la région, nous vous remercions de nous
20 avoir donné l'occasion de faire cette présentation.
21 Nous vous remercions. Mesdames, messieurs, merci.
22 737 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Merci, Madame
23 Germain. En effet, si vous voulez laisser une copie de
24 votre présentation, mais il faut dire aussi que tout ce
25 qui se passe ici est déjà public. Mais merci beaucoup
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1 pour avoir amené une copie et merci pour vos
2 commentaires.
3 738 Notre prochain invité.
4 739 MR. RHÉAUME: Our next presenter,
5 Mr. David Shragge.
6 740 Then we go to Mr. Dean La Bute.
7 741 Sarah Trusty.
8 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
9 742 MS TRUSTY: Good evening. I would
10 like to begin by thanking the CRTC for the opportunity
11 to speak this evening on the Canadian Broadcasting
12 Corporation.
13 743 My name is Sarah Trusty and this is
14 Arlene Traynor. We feel that overall the CBC is doing
15 an admirable job at providing Canadians with quality
16 programming that entertains, informs and promotes
17 Canadian culture.
18 744 However, we would like to present to
19 you some concerns we have with how adequately the CBC
20 is fulfilling its mandate and how accessible it makes
21 itself to the Canadian public as a whole.
22 745 For the purposes of our discussion,
23 we will limit our recommendations to CBC English
24 television, as we feel this is an area of the CBC that
25 needs much attention.
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1 746 I will now turn the discussion over
2 to Arlene, who will address our concerns with how
3 adequately the CBC is filling certain areas of its
4 mandate.
5 747 MS TRAYNOR: Thank you.
6 748 The CBC's Mission Statement of
7 1996-97 states that their services are:
8 "...to inform, enlighten and
9 entertain, to help the citizens
10 take part in the country's
11 life." (As read)
12 749 We feel that the CBC is not
13 fulfilling this mandate of serving the Canadian public
14 as a whole. One particular area of concern is youth
15 programming, ages approximately 12 to 25. Children and
16 youth are the next generation of viewers and the lack
17 of programming provided for them on the CBC forces
18 Canadian youth to turn to American television. Then we
19 have created a generation with no sense of their own
20 culture.
21 750 Page 18 of the 1994 CRTC decision on
22 the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation stated that there
23 was a concern with the lack of programming for
24 pre-teens and teenage children. It is our feeling that
25 the CBC has yet to adequately fix this gap in their
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1 programming.
2 751 Another audience that they are not
3 reaching is the working class. We feel that there is a
4 lot of business shows. There is also a serious lack of
5 multicultural programming. What about the Asian
6 population or even the Italian population. We need
7 Canadian shows for ethnics done by ethnic Canadians for
8 ethnic Canadians.
9 752 There have been vast improvements in
10 the representation of ethnic groups in some areas such
11 as journalists and program hosts. However, programs
12 which are targeted at ethnic groups within Canada's
13 population are still lacking and as the CBC's mandate
14 is to enlighten and entertain all Canadians. They are
15 not fulfilling their mandate in this area.
16 753 The programming which the CBC does
17 provide is of high quality and should definitely be
18 continued, but the problem is this programming is not
19 of interest to all segments of the Canadian public.
20 The CBC has made great improvements in reducing the
21 amount of foreign programming and providing quality
22 Canadian programming instead. However, there is still
23 some needless foreign programming which is taking up
24 space that could be devoted to Canadian programs that
25 target these under-represented groups.
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1 754 Certainly cost is always a concern
2 for the CBC, but their 1996-97 report discusses the
3 importance of what they spend their money on. How can
4 Canada's broadcaster justify spending money on foreign
5 content when their Canadian programming does not meet
6 the needs of all Canadians. If production costs are
7 too high, consider rebroadcasting older Canadian
8 programs which may meet some of these unsatisfied
9 needs.
10 755 There is no need for foreign
11 programming on the CBC when they are still not meeting
12 the needs of all Canadians with their own programming.
13 That time should be devoted to these under-represented
14 groups.
15 756 Sarah.
16 757 MS TRUSTY: Thank you.
17 758 I'm just going to continue by
18 addressing some concerns we have with the accessibility
19 of the CBC.
20 759 In 1994, the CRTC decision on the
21 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation encouraged less
22 dependence on advertising. Certainly, we think this is
23 a good aim. What we propose is not more dependence on
24 advertising from outside source, but more of a focus on
25 the CBC's practices and marketing themselves.
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1 760 Once again, we realize that cost is
2 always a big factor for the CBC, but the reality is
3 that not enough Canadians are tuning into the CBC. We
4 are all aware that the majority of Canadians watch far
5 more American programming than Canadian programming.
6 We believe that this due in part to the lack of diverse
7 programming as we previously mentioned, but at the same
8 time the CBC has much programming that would appeal to
9 a wide audience of Canadians if they were only made
10 more aware of it.
11 761 When advertising is done on the CBC,
12 the only people who see this advertising are those who
13 already watch it and therefore a new audience can't be
14 generated.
15 762 What we propose is a type of
16 advertising campaign that reaches all Canadians and let
17 them know that the CBC has programs worth watching.
18 Advertising in national newspapers is good, but it's
19 not enough because this does not reach many segments of
20 the population. We consider advertising on public
21 transportation and non-stream publications, on
22 billboards, on radio stations other than the CBC, such
23 as even campus radio which would be a cheap alternative
24 and you would reach, like, an unrepresented audience I
25 think.
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1 763 The CBC has taken steps to stay
2 contemporary and in touch with the public, such as
3 through their Web Site, their very impressive and very
4 informative Web Site, but again this only reaches a
5 very small segment of the population as a very limited
6 number of Canadians have Internet access.
7 764 We feel that advertising needs to be
8 done where all Canadians will have access to it. The
9 CBC needs to inform Canadians that they have
10 programming that represents them and is worth watching.
11 765 If the CBC can become a service that
12 truly services the majority of the Canadian public,
13 then the government may look at it as a more worthy
14 cause. Of course, cost does make this not an immediate
15 course of action, but we propose that something such as
16 this is a crucial long-term goal in order for the CBC
17 to stay viable and of use to all Canadians.
18 766 They truly need to make themselves
19 accessible and become a voice for every Canadian.
20 Consider even alternatives such as CBC representatives
21 in every city who will be available and known to
22 everyone to take suggestions, talk to people about what
23 they like and don't like about the CBC's programs.
24 Something such as this that would be available all the
25 time in order to be constantly meeting Canada's
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1 broadcasting needs.
2 767 Again, if cost is an issue, which I'm
3 sure it is, there are many talented and able people who
4 would love to volunteer their time to assist in
5 bettering the CBC and help it provide programming which
6 entertains, enlightens and promotes the culture of
7 every Canadians.
8 768 The CBC is supposed to be a
9 broadcaster that provides unique programming for
10 Canada's entire population. We feel that the
11 programming which it currently provides is of the
12 highest quality. However, in making itself more
13 accessible it could provide quality programming for all
14 of Canada and not just parts of it.
15 769 Thank you very much for taking the
16 time to hear my recommendations.
17 770 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you both
18 very, very much for being here.
19 771 Our next speakers.
20 772 MR. RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is
21 Emile Nakhle and friends, I believe.
22 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
23 773 MS CHANG: Good evening.
24 774 My name is Angie Chang and with me is
25 John Chan and Emil Nakhle.
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1 775 We are simply here this evening to
2 voice our concerns about the balance of children's
3 programming on the CBC.
4 776 The majority of shows are targeted to
5 preschool children during morning schedules. At this
6 time, most children are at school or day care and are
7 therefore unable to view quality Canadian programming.
8 Consequently, there is an insufficient number of
9 children's programming in the afternoon hours of the
10 day. Thus, children at school should have the
11 opportunity to watch some of the morning show schedules
12 once they return home.
13 777 However, we are aware that the CRTC
14 has recognized that the CBC should have more Canadian
15 programming geared to the youngsters of Canada.
16 Nevertheless, we feel the CBC has not fulfilled these
17 significant needs.
18 778 MR. CHAN: In the past few weeks we
19 have been watching the CBC and we have noticed that the
20 morning line up that's dedicated towards most children
21 are mainly towards preschoolers between the hours of
22 8:00 and 12:00.
23 779 We are aware that elementary schools
24 start at nine o'clock and in order for children to
25 arrive at school on time, they would have to leave the
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1 house at approximately 8:30 leaving them only with just
2 the one show to watch and that show, consequently,
3 happens to be a show produced by the BBC and not of
4 Canada.
5 780 Another thing. Even though these
6 shows are aimed mainly at preschool children, most
7 preschool children are either at day care or somewhere
8 else being taken care of because of their family
9 working situation.
10 781 We have also noticed that the daily
11 schedule is not consistent. On Thursdays and Fridays
12 at certain times, the shows differ than on Mondays,
13 Tuesdays and Wednesdays. We feel that children may
14 have a hard time keeping up with when shows are because
15 most kids keep to a schedule of what shows are on on a
16 daily basis.
17 782 We also feel, though, that these
18 shows are mainly towards the preschools. There are not
19 shows mainly for the children between the ages of five
20 and 12. There is, however, one show that we found that
21 seems to be aimed towards them. However, it is on at
22 11:30 when children are still at school.
23 783 In addition to that, we also noticed
24 that the shows of the CBC correspond with other shows
25 of local stations that any TV with or without cable can
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1 pick up. The shows are actually the same shows and
2 they are on roughly at the same time. The CBC has
3 stated that they would like to try to do something
4 different from the schedules of other programs.
5 784 What else? As far as the after
6 school schedule, we have noticed that in the hours
7 between 3:30 to five o'clock there is a cooking show
8 and a show called Road to Avonlea, which is more of a
9 family and could be put on at a later hour. We could
10 probably use more shows aimed at children at that hour,
11 as Emil will state.
12 785 MR. NAKHLE: Thanks, Johnny.
13 786 Basically, what I have to say is
14 basically feeding off of my other two partners.
15 787 What we feel is there is still an
16 absence of quality Canadian programming in the
17 after-school periods of the day. We feel that the
18 children of this country need to be more aware of what
19 it is to be Canadian.
20 788 I know for a fact there is a U.S.
21 show called Animated Hero Classics. What this show is
22 is a cartoon animation of history of the world, but
23 basically it focuses on American history. If there was
24 a Canadian show or animation such as this, it would
25 make more aware the children of this country of what it
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1 is to have lived in Canada, to know what it is to be
2 Canadian.
3 789 As Johnny said about the
4 inconsistency of the children's schedule, I know for a
5 firsthand fact that my baby cousin, she is used to a
6 certain television schedule. She does not understand
7 what time it is exactly, but what she does know is that
8 a certain show is on at this particular time. If she
9 doesn't see the show she has a fit and gets confused a
10 bit.
11 --- Laughter / Rires
12 790 MR. NAKHLE: And it's, like, hard to
13 explain to here why it's not on.
14 --- Laughter / Rires
15 791 MR. NAKHLE: Also, as Johnny said, in
16 reference to being at school and not being able to
17 watch some television programming, I do recall as a
18 child the television animated show Raccoons. I watched
19 that as a child and I was quite amused by it, but as
20 school started I was unable to watch it and I did
21 distinctively recognize it as a Canadian show with
22 Canadian content.
23 792 Thank you very much.
24 793 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
25 much, all three of you, for your presentation.
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1 794 Next.
2 795 MR. RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is
3 Dr. Alfie Morgan. No?
4 796 Then we go to Mr. Paul Rousseau.
5 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
6 797 MR. ROUSSEAU: First of all, I would
7 like to thank the CRTC for the opportunity to share my
8 thoughts tonight.
9 798 I want to focus my comments tonight
10 on CBC radio, specifically on CBC Radio One, which in
11 this area is known as CBE 1550.
12 799 There is an old saying in
13 Windsor-Essex that Canada stops in Chatham-Kent, which
14 is about 80 kilometres east of here, which essentially
15 is the geographical point where U.S. radio
16 transmissions from southeast Michigan begin to fade.
17 Southeast Michigan has perhaps the largest number of
18 radio stations in any U.S. urban centre and a majority
19 of Windsor-Essex citizens listen to these stations.
20 800 Beyond that point of Chatham-Kent,
21 Canada-based media has a much larger influence.
22 Ironically, even though there are radio stations
23 geographically located in Windsor, like CIDR and CIMX,
24 they come across as if they are Michigan-based. Most
25 of their advertisement sales are from southeast
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1 Michigan and the announcers on these stations seldom
2 refer to their listeners on this side here in Canada.
3 801 Fortunately, these stations
4 broadcasting from Canadian soil must follow Canadian
5 content and we, on this side of the border, do get a
6 chance to find Canadian talent on these Windsor
7 stations.
8 802 Interestingly, Michigan-based
9 stations quite often play these Canadian songs and, to
10 some degree, the CANCON regulations have helped promote
11 a lot of Canadian talent.
12 803 My focus tonight will be more on the
13 radio as a source of information and Canadian points of
14 view than on radio as a source of music.
15 804 For much of my early morning and
16 early evening I am tuned to 1550, our own CBC Radio One
17 station. This is where I get my Canadian news. This
18 is when I feel Canadian. I seldom watch television and
19 rely on CBC Radio One to get informed.
20 805 Of course I could listen to CKWW,
21 which is also on the AM band if I could stomach the
22 commercials and the shallow and sometimes idiotic
23 quality of their shows.
24 806 While I groan at times listening to
25 certain things that our local CBC folks say on the air,
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1 the benefits of tuning my dial to 1550 are very clear
2 to me. A day started without CBC radio just doesn't
3 quite go as well as it could.
4 807 Over the past few years I have
5 noticed a gradual deterioration due to massive funding
6 cuts of what I believe to be the best radio network in
7 the world.
8 808 I recall eagerly waking up on Sunday
9 morning to listen to the show Sunday Morning, which was
10 loped about a year ago. I can still hear those
11 wonderful weekly meetings hosted by Peter Gzowski
12 involving Stephen Lewis and others talking about
13 Canadian issues with passion. This no longer seems to
14 happen.
15 809 Not sounding like somebody wanting to
16 bring back the old, old times, I can't help but wonder
17 if the magic of CBC in the recent past has vanished
18 because of these cutbacks. We still have a lot of
19 radio talent and given sufficient resources these
20 resources can shine in the greatness of CBC's past and
21 even more.
22 810 Without the support, without the
23 resources, our current generation of CBC Radio One
24 people can never rise to their full potential. And we
25 are taking the risk of losing even more of our
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1 remaining talent if our Liberal government and the CBC
2 management does not begin to invest more money into the
3 CBC.
4 811 I hate to be cynical, but I know from
5 my own experience as an educator that without a base
6 level of support, without resources, without supplies
7 and expectations of some form of tenure and a certain
8 future I would not be able to do my best job. This
9 leaves me vulnerable to my critics who will point
10 fingers and say: Those teachers are just not doing a
11 good job.
12 812 Is this the plan of CBC, to strangle
13 the operation until it looks so bad that even the
14 shallow, market-driven commercial radio stations begin
15 to look good?
16 813 I don't believe this attack on CBC is
17 one case. It seems like public radio is under attack
18 everywhere.
19 814 For example, the CBC's U.S.
20 counterpart of sorts, NPR, continues to be under
21 attack.
22 815 On Monday of this week the NPR
23 reported that, and this is a quote:
24 "Some government officials
25 believe that the funding
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1 currently going to those
2 programs is too large a portion
3 of the funding for something
4 which is seen as not
5 worthwhile." (As read)
6 816 A few years ago, NPR was forced to
7 find "sponsors", and while there are no commercials yet
8 on NPR, the much repeated "This program is made
9 possible by..." a corporation and then a short little
10 statement about that corporation sounds very much like
11 a commercial to me. I wonder if this is the next step
12 of the "vision" of the CBC Board of Directors.
13 817 I came to Canada in 1969 from the
14 United States to begin my university education. One of
15 the things I immediately loved about this country was
16 the CBC. Until that time for me, radio was mostly
17 music, commercials and so on. CBC radio on the other
18 hand offered an alternative. CBC combined with NPR
19 broadcasting from Detroit provided me a useful resource
20 for information as I studied at the University of
21 Windsor.
22 818 Thirty years later I continue to live
23 in Canada and continue to listen to CBC. This helps me
24 define myself as a Canadian. Listening to CBC reminds
25 me of how this, the second largest country in the
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1 world, is really quite small after all. I'm told
2 stories from people who are living in small towns, in
3 coastal outposts and in urban centres both far and
4 near. I am reminded of just how great this country is
5 and I can listen to this without having to contend with
6 the advertisements.
7 819 CBC radio is a refuge for those like
8 myself who want to reflect on our achievements, our
9 failures and our potential as a country, and with those
10 who are seeking relief from the all might corporate
11 agenda that only sees me as a potential buyer of their
12 goods and services.
13 820 To grow, CBC must buy into the
14 philosophy of continuous improvement. The hearts and
15 minds of young people must be attracted to form its
16 future audience. Teachers must see the CBC as a
17 resource in our schools and in our colleges. CBC needs
18 to continue to feature our local experts, our
19 commentators, our political leaders, and add working
20 people, youth, new Canadians, and other citizens in
21 their shows.
22 821 We must use the CBC in new and
23 creative ways to keep ordinary Canadians in touch with
24 each other.
25 822 Instead of having hearings to make
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1 decisions on whether or not the CBC should exist, like
2 the one we are having tonight, we really should be
3 sponsoring idea sessions all over Canada on how to make
4 the CBC even better and stronger than it is today.
5 823 CBC must be broadcast all over the
6 world, through shortwave and through the Internet, so
7 the world will know us and see how great we really are.
8 We cannot leave the future of the CBC up to the
9 commercial people. To commercial broadcasters,
10 programming is only a means to generate money.
11 824 CBC programming may not have much
12 commercial value, then again, neither do raising
13 children, preparing our future leaders, studying the
14 arts and taking care of our ecosystems. Life is not
15 only about finances. CBC can be all that is truly and
16 deeply valued in Canada. The rest of the world knows
17 how great things are going on in this country.
18 Hopefully, those who hold the future of the CBC notice
19 as well.
20 825 Thank you.
21 826 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
22 much, Mr. Rousseau.
23 827 We will continue with our next
24 participant.
25 828 MR. RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is
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1 Mr. Peter Wilkinson.
2 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
3 829 MR. WILKINSON: Good evening. (Off
4 microphone/sans microphone...).
5 830 I want to point out that
6 Kathy McCrone appears with me in this segment.
7 831 Before I actually begin, I would like
8 to say that I'm pleased to find that what I'm about to
9 say echoes many of the things that I have heard from
10 the colleagues to my left.
11 832 Recently, I watched an interview with
12 John Taviner(ph). He, some of you may remember, is the
13 composer of the music which was sung at Westminster
14 Abbey at the conclusion of the funeral of Diana,
15 Princess of Wales as her casket was being carried from
16 the church.
17 833 In the course of the interview,
18 Taviner said that a monk on Mount Athos, reflecting on
19 the present time, has said that all the doors of heaven
20 and hell are now open.
21 834 As surely you are aware, there is a
22 chaotic debate both in word indeed going on upon our
23 planet earth as to what kind of a world we want to live
24 in. Is it to be a world dominated by unbridled
25 nationalism and tribalism, or is it to be a world where
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1 people are recognized first and foremost as human
2 beings? Are we to be programmed totally into a world
3 of free enterprise and consumerism, or are we to live
4 lives enriched by the arts, crafts and participation in
5 sports?
6 835 I feel truly that I have been
7 enriched by the CBC. I appreciate hearing news from
8 other parts of Canada and I want to know that there is
9 a taxpayer-supported broadcasting system operating at
10 arm's length from the government in which the reporters
11 are free to report what they observe without fear of
12 censorship, not to mention worse.
13 836 A program like Windsor's Morning
14 Watch hosted by Paul Vassey gives one a window on the
15 local scene in Windsor. Windsor has an active visual
16 arts community and I believe that they have benefitted
17 from the television radio coverage they have received.
18 Susan Little has been the facilitator for much of this.
19 I do not think that the Windsor Symphony would have had
20 the opportunity to be broadcast nationally if it were
21 not for the CBC.
22 837 Obviously, as had been pointed out
23 already, if our local CBC outlets had better budgets,
24 we could be still better informed of local activities
25 in the real of sports, the arts and crafts.
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1 838 In case my presentation appears
2 on-sided, I would add that I am very well aware of the
3 many enterprising small and not so small manufacturers
4 in Windsor. I would like to see, from time to time,
5 segments on the local news highlighting these important
6 players in our economy.
7 839 If we Canadians are to step in a good
8 direction in the next millennium and not become purely
9 cogs in a so-called global economy, we need
10 organizations which will help us to do that and I
11 believe that the CBC can be an important element in
12 this process.
13 840 Canadian nationalism has rarely ever
14 manifested the blustering patriotism which often
15 characterizes such feelings. Nevertheless, being a
16 Canadian is very important to me. We need to talk
17 about hour heros and heroines from Drs. Banting and
18 Best to the women of Canada's women's hockey team who
19 just one their fifth straight world's championship. We
20 need to take note at what Canadians have achieved.
21 841 Since the end of World War II, many
22 immigrants have come to Canada and I wonder how much
23 attention has been paid to helping them to grow into
24 the way of being a Canadian.
25 842 Last autumn, I was standing on the
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1 driveway of friend's house talking to the next door
2 neighbour, an immigrant, but one who had been in Canada
3 many years and had been a Canadian a long time. In the
4 course of the conversation she said, "Back in my
5 country..." I said, "No, Maria" -- not her right
6 name -- "No, Maria. That is the old country." I
7 pointed to the ground and I said "This is your
8 country"; and her eyes opened as if this fact had
9 really registered for the first time. "You're right",
10 she said.
11 843 I was talking to a man who had come
12 to borrow wine-making equipment from a fellow Canadian
13 citizen of Italian ancestry. He said to me, in the
14 process of our conversation, "I love my Italian
15 tradition of wine making, but we must all do our best
16 to make Canada a great country."
17 844 I do not want to see the CBC
18 sacrificed to the private broadcasters. I do not want
19 to see them sacrificed to the private broadcasters so
20 the private broadcasters can further feather their own
21 nests which so often seems to be their primary
22 motivation.
23 845 I conclude my remarks by saying that
24 I believe that there are people in the Canadian
25 Broadcasting Corporation who are prepared to take on
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1 the kind of tasks I have spoken of and, moreover, have
2 the moral fibre necessary in order to do something
3 which has the quality of nobility.
4 846 MS McCRONE: I'm Kathleen McCrone and
5 I would like to thank the CRTC for holding hearings in
6 Windsor in an area that is in a unique need of the
7 radio and television services of the CBC.
8 847 To begin simply and directly. I love
9 the CBC and immensely proud of it.
10 848 I grew up with the CBC in
11 Saskatchewan in the 1940s and 1950s. I spent five
12 years in the United States in the 1960s going to
13 graduate school and was deprived of the benefits of
14 public broadcasting during that period and I can recall
15 in the wee hours of the morning on my radio
16 occasionally picking up a voice that "Ici Radio-Canada"
17 from Montreal and the buzz that gave me.
18 849 Radio One and Two are the only
19 stations to which I listen. When I'm travelling, the
20 first thing I do is locate the CBC on the radio, in the
21 hotel in which I'm staying and on the television as
22 well. It's extremely reassuring to be able to listen
23 to the World at Six, As It Happens, Cross Country
24 Check-up or Choral Concert whether one is in Regina, in
25 Windsor, in Halifax or Vancouver, or to watch the news
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1 broadcast by Peter Mansbridge. It gives one a real
2 sense of being part of our larger Canadian community
3 with all its magnificent diversity and richness.
4 850 It appears that the CBC may be like
5 so many Canadian gems, under appreciated at home.
6 851 My niece, who has a degree from the
7 highly regarded communications studies program at the
8 University of Washington and is herself an American
9 told me that her professors at the University of
10 Washington held up the CBC as the model public
11 broadcaster exemplifying the highest standards and
12 achievements.
13 852 I believe profoundly in the
14 importance of a national public broadcaster operating
15 at arm's length from the government and would note the
16 importance of public broadcasters in all the major
17 western countries, except the United States; a negative
18 distinction, second only perhaps to the United States'
19 lack of a national system of health insurance.
20 853 A national public broadcaster is
21 needed especially badly, since few if any other
22 countries live next door to a giant whose influence,
23 power and self-interest are so overwhelming.
24 854 I'm reminded of the perhaps not so
25 funny joke: What do Canadians have in common? The
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1 answer is: Watching Detroit cable TV, in the Yukon, in
2 Nova Scotia, in Saskatchewan and so on.
3 855 I consider the CBC vital to the
4 national interest. There are many different opinions
5 about what the national interest actually is, but it is
6 very clear that it is not the bottom-line profits of
7 private broadcasters and their shareholders' interests
8 and perspectives.
9 856 A public broadcaster provides a sense
10 of conscience in journalism, unadulterated by business
11 concerns. It does, I believe, promote genuine freedom
12 of expression.
13 857 The CBC, our public broadcaster,
14 gives a distinctly Canadian perspective to our news.
15 It tells us about ourselves and "ourselves" means our
16 Quebec selves, our Newfoundland selves, our northern
17 selves, our British Columbian selves, our Saskatchewan
18 selves, and what have you. All of these I think make
19 up what it means to be a Canadian.
20 858 The CBC teaches us, as I say, about
21 Canadians in various parts of the country. It pitches
22 to a high rather than a low common denominator. It
23 promotes Canadian talent and culture and gives Canadian
24 talent an outlet. Through radio programs such as
25 Ideas, to name only one of many, it has an elevating
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1 educating influence. It's hard to imagine a program
2 like Ideas being broadcast on a private radio station.
3 859 Now, in this particular part of the
4 country where the immediacy of the American presence is
5 so obvious, the CBC is absolutely vital.
6 860 When I moved here in 1968, there was
7 no CBC television station, which surprised me
8 tremendously. It was the cause of much celebration
9 when we got such a station in this area and a cause of
10 huge consternation when, to save money, the CBC shut
11 down the local television station in the early 1990s.
12 The only time I have ever joined a public demonstration
13 was in the undermath of that unconscionable move and my
14 friend to my right here remembers that day very well.
15 861 Fortunately, the closure was only
16 temporary, but the form in which the CBC TV was
17 restored here was unfortunately diminished in that
18 there has been virtually no local creative production
19 since that restoration apart from the local news.
20 862 Now, the question comes up
21 frequently: Does the CBC have a local and regional
22 role? I think the answer to that is definitely yes.
23 863 The connection -- let me interrupt
24 myself here.
25 864 Its local and regional issues with
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1 which people in particular localities connect first,
2 just like with local government -- if your garbage is
3 picked up you notice that more than you notice what the
4 federal government is doing in terms of particular
5 initiatives, but this local broadcasting can translate
6 in communicating the localities in Canada to the rest
7 of our nation.
8 865 Local and regional broadcasts provide
9 creative outlets for local talent that hasn't yet
10 necessarily made its mark nationally but can through,
11 as my friend on my left said, for example, broadcasts
12 of the Windsor Symphony across the country. The CBC is
13 not fulfilling its mandate if the messages it
14 communicates to the country are obviously Toronto and
15 Montreal focused.
16 866 I was horrified by the
17 disproportionate budget cuts that have been visited
18 upon the CBC in recent years and the antagonistic
19 attitude taken toward it by the current government and
20 Prime Minister. I was shocked by the proposal last
21 year that would have enabled the government to dismiss
22 the President of the CBC and the Board of Directors at
23 will.
24 867 I'm appalled now by the proposal of
25 some CBC board members that radio and TV news should be
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1 centralized under the control of a single
2 vice-president based in Ottawa, thus placing it under
3 the direct gaze of the government.
4 868 Morning Watch, Morningside, As It
5 Happens, Sunday Morning, Cross Country Check-up, Ideas,
6 the Royal Canadian Air Farce, Quirks and Quarks, Dead
7 Dog Cafe, the Max Ferguson Show, Clive Gilmour, Ideas,
8 Writers and Company, Choral Concert and the plethora of
9 wonderful music programs on Radio Two. These all do us
10 immensely proud, as on television do: The National
11 news; The National Magazine; The Fifth Estate; Witness;
12 Biography; Hockey Night in Canada; special shows such
13 as The Boys of St. Vincent, The Dions; broadcasts of
14 the Cabot 500th anniversary celebrations, of the
15 British withdrawal from Hong Kong, the death and
16 funeral of the Princess of Wales, the funeral more
17 recently of King Hussein of Jordan; tremendous comedy
18 programs on the CBC; and the magnificent coverage that
19 is provided to us all every November the 11th in the
20 broadcasts from the cenotaph in Ottawa which remind us
21 of our history and of the tremendous debt we owe to
22 those who sacrificed their lives for this company in
23 the first and second world wars and in peacekeeping
24 missions through the United Nations.
25 869 Never did I feel prouder of the CBC
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1 and prouder to be a Canadian during the CBC broadcasts
2 of the 50th anniversary of D-Day and of VE-Day.
3 870 These all represented public
4 broadcasting at their best and it's impossible for me
5 to imagine that a standard of quality like this could
6 have been achieved by private broadcasters, or if they
7 would have even been that interested.
8 871 The CBC is one of the gems in our
9 national treasure trove. Of course it could improve
10 and do things differently, but given the hits it has
11 taken I think it has coped and adjusted remarkably
12 well.
13 872 It takes a very long time to create a
14 service as good as that provided by the CBC, both radio
15 and television, and alas it takes a very short time to
16 destroy something of this quality.
17 873 I urge the CRTC respectfully to help
18 to protect the independence of the CBC to assure that
19 the CBC is given the resources which will enable it
20 once again to thrive to adjust to the ever-changing
21 tapestry which characterizes this most blessed of
22 countries and thereby to defend and advance the public
23 interest.
24 874 A healthy, clearly Canadian CBC is
25 more important than ever as we enter an era of
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1 unprecedented globalization.
2 875 Thank you very much.
3 876 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
4 much, Mr. Wilkinson, Ms McCrone.
5 877 Our next speaker.
6 878 MR. RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is
7 Mr. Howard Pawley.
8 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
9 879 MR. PAWLEY: I don't know whether
10 there is more to be said after the very fine
11 presentations that we have had this evening, but I
12 thank the CRTC for providing us with this opportunity
13 tonight.
14 880 The CBC is a crucial institution. In
15 a time of increasing fragmentation and regionalism,
16 Canada needs such institutions to join communities
17 together. More not less resources should be allocated
18 to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.
19 881 In addition, during an era when
20 powerful media owners such as Ted Rogers, Conrad Black
21 and many others claim to be the trusted protectors of
22 the public interest, a strong CBC is needed to ensure
23 healthy competition so that voices other than the
24 powerful can be heard.
25 882 In Windsor, one of the CBC's main
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1 competitors provides local news coverage and is the
2 Windsor Star, part of a media chain. Perhaps not
3 surprisingly, the Star has editorially argued that the
4 CBC no longer serves any purpose. It claims the time
5 has come to wind down public broadcasting in this
6 country, not expand it further.
7 883 Most of us, however, consider it
8 important for Canada that today's modern media
9 conglomerates should be subject to the competition that
10 a healthy and vibrant local CBC can provide.
11 884 Regional broadcasting is extremely
12 critical. In the early 1990s, as Kate McCrone
13 mentioned, the CBC shut down its regional TV
14 broadcasting in Windsor. The opposition to this was
15 overwhelming. Approximately, 8,000 voiced their
16 determined opposition and joined in a massive rally.
17 Nearly 60,000 residents of the tricounty area signed a
18 petition opposing the loss of their local broadcaster.
19 It should come as no shock that such a distinct
20 reaction was provoked in this region. Windsor and its
21 surrounding area is a Canadian island surrounded by a
22 sea of Americanism.
23 885 Studies, which a number of years ago
24 were presented to the CRTC by the City of Windsor,
25 proved how pervasive was the influence of our powerful
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1 American neighbour to the south and to the north from
2 here, to our culture, to our politics and even sports
3 in this region.
4 886 For instance, these studies show
5 those watching American TV as opposed to those watching
6 CBC are more likely, can you believe it, to prefer the
7 Detroit Tigers to the Blue Jays. And teaching
8 political science at the University of Windsor, I have
9 been repeatedly amazed at how much more local students
10 seem to know about American politics than their own,
11 about the U.S. President rather than the Canadian Prime
12 Minister, for instance.
13 887 Although I realize the influence of
14 our huge neighbour to the south is also strong
15 throughout Canada, it is nonetheless especially so in
16 this region.
17 888 The CBC must serve a central role in
18 preserving and promoting Canada's identity. This can
19 be best fulfilled by ensuring that the regions are
20 properly reflected in its programs. Perhaps there are
21 some in government, within the CBC itself, who would
22 prefer to see the money spent regionally go to the
23 centres. However, such is, in my humble view, contrary
24 to the national interest.
25 889 Getting back to this area once more,
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1 there is unfortunately considerable evidence of this in
2 the current lack of priority given by CBC to this
3 region. Here CBET, for instance, runs its daily news
4 coverage at 5:30, unfortunately too early for many
5 returning from work. Why not schedule local news from
6 6:00 to 6:30 or preferably to seven o'clock?
7 890 Again, the late local news currently
8 runs at 11:30, far too late for most viewers and I
9 suspect most around this table to watch.
10 891 Moreover, sadly on weekends, if you
11 can believe it, there is no coverage whatsoever of a
12 local nature on CBET. The weekend news broadcasts are
13 from Toronto. Despite such built-in inconveniences to
14 the local customers of CBC that station continues to
15 remain to be the most popular local news source for the
16 Lambton, Kent, Essex region.
17 892 Without a doubt, the continuance of
18 local broadcasting is a crucial issue in Windsor.
19 Local residents are disturbed about constant reports
20 that the highest leadership at the CBC, and also yes in
21 the corridors of government are less than fully
22 committed to regional broadcasting.
23 893 Furthermore, it is critical that
24 regional broadcasting is maintained throughout Canada.
25 It's elimination would jeopardize how Canadians relate
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1 to each other. To reduce regional broadcasting, the
2 inevitable consequence would be in the concentration of
3 the CBC resources in the national centres, the major
4 centres. Of course in Ontario that means Toronto. But
5 Toronto is not Ontario, nor is it Canada.
6 894 Another concern felt by many and
7 referred to this evening is the increasing tendency by
8 the government to extend political control over CBC.
9 This is done by the appointments of the President and
10 Directors to the Board of CBC. Other steps appear to
11 be in the making, as had been mentioned this evening,
12 to further tighten this control.
13 895 The appointment of a CBC president as
14 well as that of its board of directors should be the
15 responsibility of multiparty committee of the House of
16 Commons. This is most essential with a public
17 broadcaster such as the CBC, for it will naturally step
18 on the toes of politicians from all parties from time
19 to time.
20 896 Recently, we have all observed what
21 appears to be the hypersensitivity, at least in my
22 view, on the part of the Prime Minister in the
23 well-publicized Milewski affair. CBC should be
24 encouraged to do more not less in depth public affairs
25 analysis. TV broadcasting by CBC has, in recent years,
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1 done too little of this. I think Ontario TV is doing
2 perhaps a better job at the moment in this regard.
3 897 In addition, the CBC's role is a
4 positive one for working journalists. Indeed, those
5 columnists who are the cheerleaders for various schemes
6 to privatize the CBC I suggest suffer from tunnel
7 vision. Without the CBC, the standard of Canadian
8 journalism would be reduced. Too few news outlets
9 disseminate news now. Frequently, it is too
10 homogenized and frequently suffers from a "good feel
11 and an inoffensive manner".
12 898 Historically, the CBC has been the
13 most significant outlet that is prepared to explore and
14 delve into public issues. Investigative reporting on
15 the Somalia affair, the Airborne Regiment, the recent
16 matters pertaining to APEC and the students in
17 Vancouver readily come to mind. In addition, the CBC
18 has run superb pieces on the future of the Canadian
19 health system.
20 899 The CBC should be applauded for its
21 sponsorship of town hall meetings which include
22 politicians representing various parties. I recognize
23 the Prime Minister may not have forgiven the CBC for
24 one such meeting. Nevertheless, such programs are a
25 substantial public service and the CBC should be
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1 encouraged to continue them.
2 900 Regrettably, I have no confidence in
3 the private sector's willingness to do this in a manner
4 that will truly reflect the diversity of the public
5 interest.
6 901 Programs such as Witness, Prime Time
7 News, the Nature of Things, Market Place, As it
8 Happens, Royal Canadian Air Farce, Fifth Estate, among
9 others stand out as excellent productions. However,
10 CBC could do a better job of acquainting Canadians, I
11 suggest, with the nation's history. This is especially
12 important now with the inexplicable withdrawal of
13 Canadian history from so many educational curriculums.
14 902 Moreover, while there is an excellent
15 business coverage, as was mentioned earlier this
16 evening, on Newsworld, not much attention is given to
17 labour news, working class news. Repeatedly, I have
18 noticed too many economic analysis that have been
19 debated by panellists from either a financial or a
20 banking viewpoint as though their word represented the
21 gospel. Making this point, I quarrel not with their
22 participation but with the repeated lack of diversity
23 that sometimes occurs on Newsworld panels that
24 especially deal with economic matters.
25 903 In conclusion, contrary to the
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1 reasoning of those that advocate a minor role, a more
2 limited role, an irrefutable argument exists for a
3 stronger public broadcasting system in Canada. It is
4 imperative at both the national and at the regional
5 level. With the expanding regional cleavages that we
6 see throughout this country, with the Quebec issue,
7 with the ascendancy of the United States and with
8 globalization increasingly becoming ever and ever a
9 greater part of our lives, the urgency is greater now
10 than ever for wholehearted support for Canadian public
11 broadcasting.
12 904 I urge the CRTC to urge the
13 government to give the kind of support and endorsation
14 that the CBC requires in order that Canadians will be
15 even better served than they are at the present time
16 through the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.
17 905 I would like to thank the CRTC for
18 giving us this opportunity to provide input on a matter
19 of such crucial national and local importance.
20 906 Thank you.
21 907 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
22 much, Mr. Pawley, and to everyone in our first group.
23 We certainly appreciate your being here.
24 908 As I said, the point is for us to
25 listen to you. So our lack of questions does not
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1 denote a lack of interest. It is an effort on our
2 parts to listen and to hear from everyone.
3 909 We have a group of approximately six
4 people and perhaps some people from our first group
5 have joined us. I'm suggesting that we take a short
6 break of about 10 minutes, it is now 7:15, and
7 reconvene at 7:25, and hear from Sandra Pupatello,
8 Corey Tomkimson, Mr. Marentette I think, JoAnne
9 Merritt, Paul Hartel and Nora McLaren.
10 910 Anybody else who has joined us -- I
11 think we have another name already -- this evening who
12 would like to add their name to the list, please do so
13 and see Mr. Rhéaume here.
14 911 So a short break of 10 minutes. See
15 you at 7:25.
16 --- Recess at 1915 / Suspension à 1915
17 --- Upon resuming at 1925 / Reprise à 1925
18 912 THE CHAIRPERSON: (Off
19 microphone/sans microphone...) come to the table:
20 Mr. Sachs, Sandra Pupatello, Corey Tomkimson,
21 Roland Marentette, JoAnne Merritt, Paul Hartel and
22 Nora -- are you Nora?
23 913 MS McLAREN: I'm Nora McLaren.
24 914 THE CHAIRPERSON: Nora McLaren.
25 915 Mr. Sachs is also here, but my
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1 colleague is not. I think he is having his cigarette.
2 --- Pause / Pause
3 916 THE CHAIRPERSON: As you begin to
4 speak, would you state your name.
5 917 Would you also just take a little
6 time so that our technician has your microphone well
7 adjusted before you get into too much of your
8 presentation. So saying your name nice and slowly will
9 give him a chance to adjust the microphone and let me
10 know if it needs to be brought more forward.
11 918 We will begin the second round of the
12 public consultations. I would like to invite
13 Mr. Sachs, Jonathan Sachs to speak.
14 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
15 919 MR. SACHS: My name is
16 Jonathan Sachs. I am a U.S. citizen. I joke with my
17 friends that that is an accident of birth not of
18 choice. Nevertheless, all my family are also Americans
19 and so I wouldn't ever want to be thought anti-
20 American.
21 920 I probably should also say that
22 neither I nor my wife nor any of my family or friends,
23 to my knowledge, work for the CBC. So I'll say that
24 before I praise it.
25 921 I have lived in five U.S. states and
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1 maybe I'm just repeating what has been said by Canadian
2 citizens here tonight, but there is a difference in
3 sensibility and values between American media and the
4 CBC, as I believe there is a difference between the
5 sensibilities and values -- yes, they have been
6 stereotyped, but -- of the U.S. in general and Canada
7 in general.
8 922 There is no lack of media to propound
9 U.S. values to Canadians. As has been pointed out,
10 that's particularly true here in Windsor and these
11 values, among others are individualism and competition,
12 looking out for number one and keeping your eye on the
13 bottom line. I think our local print media
14 particularly do this effectively. But I'm very glad
15 for the CBC and its role in representing values that I
16 identify with of caring for one another, of not
17 evaluating people only in terms of financial outlook or
18 factors like that.
19 923 When I look at CBC television and
20 listen to CBC radio, what I see and here is
21 intelligence and integrity and values with which I
22 identify, and most of all people who take pride in
23 their work. Without wanting, in any way, to undermine
24 other media outlets within Canada, I believe that the
25 CBC is very much needed and I would like not only to
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1 have its mission continued but enhanced.
2 924 That's all I have to say.
3 925 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
4 much, Mr. Sachs.
5 926 Our next presenter is Sandra
6 Pupatello. If you would come to the table. Good
7 evening.
8 927 As I said earlier in my opening
9 remarks, in order to make sure that we hear everyone,
10 we are not asking any questions this evening to assure
11 that we have enough time. So please don't consider a
12 lack of questions a lack of interest. We prefer to
13 listen to you with your remarks.
14 928 At the end of the remarks, the CBC
15 will have an opportunity to make a few comments as
16 well.
17 929 So, without further ado,
18 Madam Pupatello, if you would like to proceed.
19 930 MS PUPATELLO: May I ask just one
20 question as to who the representatives from CRTC are?
21 931 THE CHAIRPERSON: I am
22 Joan Pennefather. Myself and Donald Rhéaume, the legal
23 counsel.
24 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
25 932 MS PUPATELLO: First, let me start by
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1 showing my appreciation for coming to speak before you
2 today. I did prepare some remarks. There are
3 certainly not enough copies for the guests around the
4 table.
5 933 In 1990, CBC closed our local station
6 and the effect was felt immediately. I distinctly
7 remember the 1990 municipal election when I realized
8 there would be no special coverage of election results
9 that night. I was very angry --
10 934 THE CHAIRPERSON: Excuse me.
11 935 MS PUPATELLO: Yes?
12 936 THE CHAIRPERSON: Just pull your
13 microphone a little towards you and we will be sure we
14 get all your remarks registered on the public record.
15 937 MS PUPATELLO: Thank you.
16 938 There would be no special coverage of
17 election results that night in 1990. I was very angry.
18 Most were. Behind Mayor John Millson, hundreds and
19 hundreds marched along Riverside Drive to save our
20 station. It was quite a sight.
21 939 For those of you visiting Windsor
22 today, you may not realize that geographically Essex
23 County is practically entirely flanked by the United
24 States and this county is actually south of Michigan.
25 One of many claims to fame is to be the most southerly
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1 portion of Canada parallelled with California. If you
2 think this makes us the most American of our Canadian
3 colleagues, it's the opposite.
4 940 We have the best stories of all
5 describing our dear American friends' incapability of
6 knowing much about our country politically,
7 historically or geographically. The legend anecdotes
8 of Americans arriving at our Windsor border in the heat
9 of July saying, "We are going to Montreal. We want to
10 ski", complete with skiis tied to the roof rack, really
11 make them more endearing to us. What is so amazing
12 about our Canadian attitude is that we can be so
13 fiercely defensive about just how Canadian we are
14 despite our isolation. One might think we were sitting
15 in Kenora, Inuvik or Whitehorse instead of Windsor when
16 I say "isolation".
17 941 Before I appear gushing over the
18 merits of CBC, let me say practically that, today,
19 during a strike at the CBC, we have significant parts
20 of Essex County with no Canadian television news or
21 programming. Cable is not extended throughout the
22 county and transmission of the closest thing to local
23 programming is nothing but a chaotic series of dots on
24 a screen.
25 942 This may be surprising to you. CBC,
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1 for a large part of our country, is the only Canadian
2 television news and programming station. This in a
3 county which boasts a GDP value of $26 billion equal to
4 that of Manitoba, greater than Saskatchewan and greater
5 than the four Atlantic provinces combined. No wonder
6 our municipal leadership is so vital and deserving of
7 coverage during a civic election. That's a significant
8 percentage of national tax revenue, part of which
9 finances the CBC.
10 943 I'm tired of having to rationalize to
11 the rest of the nation or have arguments ready in the
12 top drawer to fire at the inevitable next launch of:
13 Why should we have our own local CBC station?
14 944 The War of 1812 was fought right here
15 in this county which secured the future of the nation,
16 and that is reason enough for the next millennium. I
17 think you owe us.
18 945 Back to the role Canadian news and
19 programming plays in our identity, specifically
20 television.
21 946 We are beating the odds down here.
22 I'm not satisfied with the current role of the CBC. I
23 want more not less from CBC.
24 947 Young people walking down Olet(ph)
25 Avenue are likely to recognize Carmen Harland and
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1 Rich Fisher from the Detroit new stations before they
2 would recognize Peter Mansbridge from our national news
3 program. Likewise, the watercooler talk on a Monday in
4 Toronto is about the most hilarious episode of Air
5 Farce. Here Don Ferguson or Roger Abbott would likely
6 not even turn a head.
7 948 Geographically, we may be swamped,
8 but why is the annual trek of every Essex County high
9 school student to Toronto inclusive of only the Science
10 Centre and Parliament Buildings and not to our CBC
11 buildings? Shouldn't our educators be armed with an
12 imaginative package as a curriculum piece that
13 describes the purpose, history and value of this
14 national public broadcasting asset? How else have
15 young people learned the value of Algonquin Park or how
16 do you explain increased awareness in the environmental
17 issues by young people today, except as a reflection of
18 what they are taught?
19 949 Well, CRTC hearings are to result in
20 what? A redefinition of CBC? A bold new mandate?
21 950 I like the old one. I think we
22 should redefine how we choose to implement the mandate.
23 Just so I'm certain, I'm assuming our need to quote a
24 past committee:
25 "...to provide a forum for
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1 debates, a source of support and
2 a showcase for our newest
3 talented artists and a mirror in
4 which we have seen ourselves."
5 (As read)
6 951 This need still applies.
7 952 In this age of communications
8 revolution it is needed now more than ever. This same
9 communications revolution should be of benefit to the
10 technology at CBC as it is to the rest of the world's
11 communication industry. If the rest of the world is
12 coming in at a fierce pace, then I expect the CBC to be
13 getting out an equally fierce pace, out to every nook
14 and cranny of the nation, let alone the rest of the
15 world.
16 953 Of course funding is an issue.
17 Funding will inevitably be tied to what we value, and
18 that is a function of what we learn.
19 954 The most important point I would like
20 to make tonight is concerning the leadership of the
21 CBC. Tough questions are required to focus on how to
22 implement the mandate of the CBC, not deciding on what
23 the mandate of the CBC should be. I like the one
24 that's founded in 1932.
25 955 It's hard to understand this "CBC
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1 logo flap" becoming a major point of discussion as it
2 was in a March 1st, 1999 Windsor Star editorial. Every
3 major television network features its logo continuously
4 on screen. That sounds like just plain good marketing
5 so channel surfers know where on earth they are while
6 they flick. No major conspiracy here.
7 956 Instead, let's examine the benefit of
8 purchasing American reruns to fill up the time slots.
9 Even the new speed Vision cable channel plays some
10 1960s Daytona 500 race at 3:00 in the morning. Surely
11 a rerun of Canadian sporting events, like the famous
12 Canada-Russia hockey series would garner more interest.
13 But it does change what people would see in their
14 public broadcast system, at least they would see
15 Canadian programming. David Suzuki came long before
16 the Discovery channel and the Discovery channel was
17 profitable.
18 957 My view is the mainstay of CBC must
19 be news and public affairs programming. Local news and
20 local public affairs programming is particularly
21 essential despite the presence in major centres of
22 private services. I say this with the caveat of the
23 CBC being truly at arm's length of the government.
24 That to me means the government can only influence the
25 mandate of two bodies, the CRTC and the CBC, not the
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1 implementation of either one of its mandates. Then,
2 government can only change those mandates through our
3 tried and true democratic process.
4 958 Funding will continue to be an issue.
5 Perhaps we always want more than we are prepared to
6 pay.
7 959 My experience in the area of taxation
8 so far as an elected representative for this area has
9 been insightful. Most feel we pay too much tax. But
10 it is always accompanied by the frustration of poor
11 service or low value for what we have just paid for.
12 960 The benefit of a nationally financed
13 CBC, although many question the level of financing as
14 do I, nonetheless saves us from the never ending
15 marathons and pleas of support to which our American
16 friends and even TVO must resort. In other words, I
17 don't want to see the telethons on CBC.
18 961 The CBC leadership needed the review
19 of implementation of mandate before installing across
20 the board cuts. To make the CBC package a valued
21 commodity that meets its mandate is hard work, but I
22 believe the public is prepared to pay for something of
23 value. Just like parents of adult children continue
24 through their taxes to pay for education for the
25 benefit of society as a whole, so too will we pay for a
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1 valued CBC even when we don't watch it. Then we can
2 only blame ourselves when we remember the last phrase
3 from Walter Kronkite, but not the final farewell of
4 Nolton Nash.
5 962 That concludes my prepared remarks.
6 963 Thank you.
7 964 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
8 much, Ms Pupatello.
9 965 MS PUPATELLO: (Off microphone/sans
10 microphone...)
11 966 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. We
12 would appreciate that. Anybody else who has copies of
13 their remarks, if you would like to leave them with
14 Mr. Rhéaume. Of course all of this is on the public
15 record, as you know, but it is helpful for us to have
16 your remarks.
17 967 Our next participant.
18 968 MR. RHÉAUME: Thank you. Our next
19 speaker is Mr. Corey Tomkimson. No?
20 969 Then we will go to Mr. Roland
21 Marentette.
22 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
23 970 MR. MARENTETTE: Hello, my name is
24 Roland Marentette.
25 971 I guess I should tell you I was born
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1 and raised in this area, so I have been here for a long
2 time. I grew up with the CBC. If it goes I will miss
3 it. I think a lot of Windsorites would probably feel
4 the same way.
5 972 For the many years that I have been a
6 Windsorite, I have come to rely on the local CBC
7 affiliate to provide a definite Canadian touch to our
8 local news. Like many Canadians I view the CBC as my
9 radio and television stations. Sure some would argue
10 that there are other alternatives and that the CBC
11 would still exist if we were to continue to have a
12 national presence only.
13 973 I would argue that the proliferation
14 of cable stations underscores the necessity of
15 maintaining a strong Canadian alternative. The close
16 proximity to the United States can be overwhelming.
17 The everyday bombardment of the American view of life
18 and priorities creates a challenge to parents who
19 resist the influence on their children. The move by
20 the private sector to dominate the media creates a fear
21 that everyday Canadians will eventually lose the right
22 to hold them accountable.
23 974 We only have to look to the
24 concentration of ownership of newspapers and the recent
25 challenge by American interests concerning Canadian
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1 content in magazines sold in Canada, thus the need for
2 Bill C-55. We as Canadians must protect the right to
3 accountability that a properly funded and local CBC can
4 provide.
5 975 What happens to our local news if the
6 private sector decides to downsize? This appears to be
7 the way of doing business today. Do the stations
8 owners decide what stories get priority an how the
9 stories are presented? We have one newspaper in
10 Windsor and there are constant complaints about the
11 editorial viewpoint, but with no competing alternative
12 to provide balance it's take it or leave it.
13 976 The CBC is a Canadian institution,
14 truly a part of our culture. We have a very proud
15 history in Windsor and Essex County with a strong sense
16 of community. Our local CBC has been a large part of
17 it. In the mid-eighties I recall the local CBC
18 affiliate doing an excellent exposé on the plight of
19 the Windsor Bendex workers who were the victims of
20 exposure to asbestos in their workplace. That story
21 mobilized the community to press for stronger health
22 and safety legislation and also the creation of the
23 Industrial Disease Panel, which provided workers with
24 crucial information about many occupational hazards and
25 disease.
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1 977 On December the 16th, 1990, an
2 estimated 5,000 to 7,000 Windsor and Essex Country
3 residents protested the attempted closure of our local
4 affiliate. Every municipal council supported this
5 initiative and actively participated in organizing the
6 event. This is an example of how important the CBC is
7 to us. At that time, many prominent local Liberal
8 politicians, notably the now Deputy Prime Minister
9 Herb Rae, commented on the shortsightedness of this
10 decision. Coincidentally, the same Liberal politicians
11 were sitting in opposition at the time. What a
12 difference an election makes.
13 978 What management of CBC and the
14 federal government have done cannot be allowed to
15 continue. The cutbacks have gone too far. The CRTC
16 must make it very clear that the CBC has to provide
17 full service to all communities in Canada and that
18 means ensuring that the local stations be left intact.
19 I would also strongly suggest that they be encouraged
20 to look at ways of restoring service in the communities
21 where they have been removed.
22 979 You must recognize the important role
23 the CBC has in maintaining our distinct Canadian
24 culture and, just as importantly, your responsibility
25 to protect the interests of consumers and Canadians.
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1 980 Thank you.
2 981 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
3 much, Mr. Marentette.
4 982 Our next speaker.
5 983 MR. RHÉAUME: The next speaker is
6 JoAnne Merritt.
7 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
8 984 MS MERRITT: Good evening.
9 985 My name is JoAnne Merritt, or as I
10 have often been referred to by our local CBC Morning
11 Watch host, the president of the loyal listeners club.
12 986 When I learned of your coming to our
13 area, I felt compelled to speak to you about the CBC
14 and its importance to me. I am a second generation CBC
15 listener and I'm doing my best to raise two third
16 generation listeners. I am what I consider to be a
17 younger listener than the majority who regularly tune
18 in. But I wasn't always a loyal listener.
19 987 Like most teenagers, I used to listen
20 to loud in-your-face morning shows whose hosts were the
21 picture of cool and whose programs were nothing short
22 of flaky, give or take a joke or two. It is my father
23 who bears responsibility for my conversion. The CBC
24 was his station of choice in the morning, not mine,
25 unless of course there was a chance for school closure
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1 due to snow.
2 988 When I grew up and moved out and had
3 my own children, I became boss of the radio dial. It
4 seemed that I was programmed though and it had remained
5 stuck on the CBC 1550, an AM station. My high school
6 chums would never have believed it.
7 989 To this day, like making oatmeal or
8 brushing my teeth, listening to the CBC has become an
9 important part of my morning routine. Why did this
10 happen? You could call it a revelation or you could
11 just call it parenthood.
12 990 Something happens to you when you
13 enter into the world of parenthood or at least it did
14 to me. Identity became very important to me. I found
15 it vital that my boys share a sense of pride in knowing
16 who they are. We all need to know where our place is
17 in the world and how we fit in and what our social
18 responsibilities are. We are Canadian, the passive,
19 friendly lot here in the north.
20 991 We don't find the need to be boastful
21 about it, but rather the red and white flag that flies
22 in front of my children's school reminds them of this
23 each day. The unique coins bearing pictures of beavers
24 and loons that fill their piggy banks, the licence
25 plate on their mom's car and of course the national
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1 anthem that they remove their hat and stand proudly for
2 prior to the start of the hockey game are subtle
3 reminders that they are Canadian. They are proud of
4 it, as am I.
5 992 So here it is. Trust me when I tell
6 you that I'm no musician, but if I had a harmonica in
7 my pocket right now I would probably be playing you a
8 little tune and it would definitely be the blues. The
9 border city blues.
10 993 As a border city, we here in Windsor
11 live a stone's throw from our American neighbour
12 Detroit. I'm not going to pretend that living so close
13 to a major U.S. city doesn't have its advantages
14 because it does. We are close to a host of
15 restaurants, sports events and an array of concerts.
16 When it is closing time, though, we like to come back
17 home to Windsor.
18 994 Living in a city bordering the United
19 States is no easy task, though, when it comes to
20 maintaining our identity. Some days it feels as though
21 we are but another suburb of Detroit. The media
22 signals bounce across the river into our TVs, stereos
23 and car radios, so much so that it takes over the
24 airwaves.
25 995 Our children hear so much of the
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1 American media that they begin to confuse or even
2 mistake it for our own. How many times have we
3 listened to children describe a day in the life of the
4 President of the United States but who can't put a name
5 to the Prime Minister of Canada. The level of American
6 media content our families are exposed to through the
7 course of a day is astounding. As a parent, this
8 concerns me. This is where the CBC comes into play.
9 996 You see in that sea of U.S.
10 commercialize we can concede and hop aboard the luxury
11 liner with mega horsepower sponsored by corporate
12 America or we can climb into the CBC canoe and grab a
13 paddle. The luxury liner will eventually run out of
14 gas, but the canoe will remain afloat and travel along
15 one stroke at a time.
16 997 With all the cuts that have been
17 made, one has to wonder, though, how long the CBC can
18 remain afloat. Those who have remained loyal to the
19 CBC wonder how much more it can possibly take. I often
20 wonder how they manage to do it sometimes with only a
21 life preserver and a paddle remaining.
22 998 You might wonder why I stick by the
23 CBC, with the variety of hit programs and entertainment
24 available to me just a channel away. The CBC is
25 constant. The CBC provides me with both a local and
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1 national picture of what's happening in the news. The
2 CBC covers the entire spectrum in news and
3 entertainment. I can hear about everything from the
4 local church bizarre to the crisis on our east coast,
5 and I can be sure that through the CBC my sister in
6 Calgary, or my relatives in Newfoundland, are provided
7 the same quality programming. It makes us all somehow
8 feel connected.
9 999 If not for the CBC, both radio and
10 television, I probably would not have been aware of the
11 superb talent my fellow Canadians possess, many of whom
12 the rest of North America are just beginning to
13 discover now.
14 1000 We are fortunate here in Canada that
15 we maintain so many diverse cultures and therefore
16 cultivate a huge range of talents. For example, my son
17 who, through CBC, spoke on the air with his idol
18 Fred Penner at the age of four is now an avid fan of
19 the Red Green Show at the age of 12. His younger
20 brother has learned more about Canadian politics
21 through the Royal Canadian Air Farce than I ever knew
22 at the age of 10, and he also does a wonderful
23 impression of Preston Manning. I feel you really
24 haven't experienced funny until you have listened to
25 Madly Off in All Directions. I couldn't say enough
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1 about the sharp wit of Rick Mercer and the cast of This
2 Hour Has 22 Minutes either. One viewing and you are
3 hooked.
4 1001 These folks actually allow us the
5 unique experience of laughing at ourselves. The CBC
6 also allows the average citizen to have a voice which
7 makes them feel as though what they think truly
8 matters.
9 1002 The sports and weather reported by
10 the CBC are also uniquely Canadian. Where else but on
11 CBC can you hear the national scores of our Canadian
12 teams without being smothered in hype or glitz? That's
13 right, some of our Canadian teams haven't headed south
14 of the border and deserve our attention.
15 1003 We also hear the scores from high
16 school sports and local leagues which the kid next door
17 or down the street plays for. This is important to our
18 community.
19 1004 In the weather department, some local
20 stations have actually given in when reporting the
21 weather and still give it in fahrenheit as our U.S.
22 neighbours do. The CBC reports the weather for Windsor
23 in celsius as in the rest of Canada.
24 1005 My high school math teacher would
25 actually be proud because, after all these years, it
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1 has sunk in and I have mastered celsius conversion
2 without having to reach for a calculator. 22 degrees
3 celsius really feels like 22 degrees celsius.
4 1006 Each summer as we vacation at my
5 father's cottage up in the great white north outside
6 Chapleau we are as remote as you can get. It's a
7 20-minute drive into the bush from any main road and a
8 boat ride or a long bumpy car ride to a telephone.
9 Usually, the only sound that you can hear is the call
10 of the loon or the wind across the lake. Hydro is a
11 luxury, and thanks to it the only other sound you can
12 hear on a summer's day is the sound of the CBC. The
13 radio that sits propped on a lawn chair with tin foil
14 wrapped around the antennae for reception provides our
15 link to the rest of the country.
16 1007 That is bliss. A good breath of
17 fresh northern air and the sound of the CBC.
18 1008 So you see, the CBC is important to
19 me and my family. We learn, we laugh, we sing and we
20 listen to the CBC. Whether I am miles deep in a bush
21 in northern Ontario or just minutes from the border of
22 our overpowering neighbour, the CBC succeeds at making
23 me feel Canadian.
24 1009 Thank you.
25 1010 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, JoAnne.
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1 1011 Our next speaker.
2 1012 MR. RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is
3 Paul Hartel.
4 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
5 1013 MR. HARTEL: Thank you very much.
6 1014 I have a printed submission which I
7 would like to enter into the record, but I would like
8 to speak to a submission.
9 1015 First of all, I want to thank you for
10 coming to Windsor. Windsor is a very unique community
11 and this whole region in southwestern Ontario is also
12 very unique. Indeed, one of the former presenters made
13 a comment about its unique geographical
14 characteristics.
15 1016 I believe that CBC radio and
16 television plays a vital role for the Windsor region.
17 This station, Channel 9, and CBC radio, 1550, has
18 suffered very significantly big cuts by both the
19 Mulroney and Chrétien governments and their
20 administrations. I believe that these budget cuts and
21 program cuts must be reversed and I believe therefore
22 Windsor needs more and not less CBC coverage.
23 1017 This region has a dominant industrial
24 agricultural and multicultural profile. Indeed, this
25 area is indeed one of perhaps the most multiculturally
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1 typical communities in Canada. I believe that we need
2 more service in both official languages.
3 1018 I don't think the service that is
4 provided by the private sector does the job. CBC does
5 the job. Profit guides the private sector and
6 community thinking guides the CBC coverage. I believe
7 this is a value that must be supported.
8 1019 I'm a teacher. I teach high school.
9 I work with the Essex Country Board of Education and
10 now the Greater Essex Board of Education for 28 years.
11 I'm a history and social science teacher. I use, its
12 vital for me in my job to use what the CBC provides to
13 us.
14 1020 One particular program has to do with
15 the CBC news and review. That series is very vital for
16 transmitting the issues, the value issues, the sense of
17 community across this nation and if we don't have this
18 available for our students, indeed we are the worse for
19 it.
20 1021 In Ontario, the curriculum is being
21 changed. We have to have a new civics program prepared
22 for Grade 10 students, and I tell you we need more
23 community programming to guarantee what we are supposed
24 to be teaching. I want to really emphasize that point
25 with you.
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1 1022 My students live very close to the
2 American border here, as was presented earlier, and I
3 need this vehicle to reassert their sense of community
4 identity. One of the units I teach has to do with our
5 identity, and indeed the whole issue of the role of the
6 CBC and the mass media in supporting and nurturing a
7 Canadian identity is part of the discussion we have in
8 this unit that I teach in my course for Grade 9 and
9 Grade 10 students. Please be assured that I need the
10 CBC. That's my point.
11 1023 My wife and I both enjoy the radio
12 programming immensely. In fact, my wife has often
13 remarked that without the CBC her introduction to
14 Canadian society as a new immigrant to this country
15 would not have been as helpful and as full as what it
16 has become over the period of the last 30 years.
17 Indeed, when we hear programming on Sunday's or, for
18 example, Otto Lowie's(ph) program, the Continental
19 program, things like this, news programming, this is
20 stuff that is vital for helping new Canadians become
21 part of our bigger community. I speak for this point
22 from personal experience. I wanted to share that with
23 you.
24 1024 I like very much the television
25 programming. Howard Pawley talked about public affairs
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1 programming such as the Fifth Estate and I agree with
2 his list of points there.
3 1025 But we also like, my wife and I do
4 like, such entertainment programs that come out on
5 Sunday evening and two such as Emily of New Moon and
6 Wind At My Back. Those kind of programs in the
7 entertainment sector are also very, very nice to watch
8 and I think they are good.
9 1026 I wanted to respond to the questions
10 you put out in your public notice. One of the
11 questions was:
12 "How well does the CBC fulfil
13 its role as the national public
14 broadcaster?" (As read)
15 1027 I think the CBC is doing well, but I
16 want more. I think the cuts have truly hurt. I would
17 encourage the CBC to continue doing what it has been
18 doing well with.
19 1028 Another question was:
20 "How well does the CBC serve the
21 public on a regional as well as
22 a national level?" (As read)
23 1029 My feeling is that restoring funding
24 to Windsor will assure more regional programming that
25 meets our needs.
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1 1030 This is a major automotive NAFTA
2 region. It's a major area for agriculture. We used to
3 have really big, in depth programs. I know there was
4 an agricultural program a few years ago. This kind of
5 stuff is gone. I mean agriculture in Essex County is
6 one of the fastest growing sectors of the economy.
7 There is more hectares under plastic for the tomato
8 business than you would ever believe. Therefore, I'm
9 suggesting that we have to have programs that help us
10 understand our local region better.
11 1031 With regard to current affairs
12 programs locally. Sandra Pupatello commented about an
13 election. Well, we can't get good community coverage
14 with three minutes on Percy's Panel, you know, three
15 minutes mid week. We need more that's seriously
16 addressed. I think the CBC can do this quite well.
17 1032 A couple of other little things that
18 I wanted to mention in my submission that has to do
19 with the entertainment programming and arts coverage
20 with respect to the question:
21 "Is there a special role that
22 the CBC should play in the
23 presentation of Canadian
24 programming?" (As read)
25 1033 I really think that we have to
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1 encourage more in the entertainment sector. It's sort
2 of up and down and the fill-in with American program
3 content is -- you know, it's been an outstanding
4 question for years. But I do think that attention to
5 this sector is important. We should not allow the CBC
6 to withdraw from and allow just a total privatized
7 entertainment market sector there. I think there is a
8 role.
9 1034 North of 60 is a good program that I
10 think reflects the Canadian identity. With the
11 evolution of Nunavut I think clearly we are going to
12 have to pay more attention to our norther communities
13 in the realm of entertainment. So that is my view
14 there.
15 1035 The last thing I wanted to share is
16 my view on this debate on Channel 3, or this youth
17 channel discussion. I think it is important to deal
18 with this within a CBC context so long as it meets the
19 objectives of strengthening the Canadian identity,
20 strengthening our communities, being nationalistic, if
21 you like, in a positive sense to assert that Canada is
22 a strong nation.
23 1036 This is not just a commodity's
24 market-based society, in my view. You know, this is a
25 community. Our national heritage, our history is based
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1 on agreements between communities and regions of this
2 country and I believe that we must encourage more of
3 this in all that CBC does. If it plays it out in the
4 area of entertainment, as well as with youth
5 programming, then, indeed -- just like back in 1932 or
6 1936 when they had this first coast-to-coast broadcast:
7 Hello, Halifax; hello, Toronto; hello, Vancouver. I
8 have played that in my classes you know. It's quite a
9 funny thing to hear, you know?
10 1037 But if the youth of Canada can hear
11 that "hello" from coast to coast, I think our future
12 will be better defined and I encourage the CRTC to take
13 these matters under consideration.
14 1038 Thank you very much.
15 1039 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
16 Mr. Hertel.
17 1040 We will go on now to another speaker
18 please.
19 1041 MR. RHÉAUME: The next speaker is
20 Nora McLaren.
21 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
22 1042 MS McLAREN: I can only echo what the
23 rest of the speakers have been saying to you.
24 1043 Paul jogged in my memory something I
25 saw on CBC TV the other night. It was an interview
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1 with a man who had been charged with smuggling from the
2 U.S. to Canada. He was a First Nations' person and his
3 defence was that he was not smuggling because to him
4 the word Kanata or Canada meant a small village and he
5 was only bringing these goods from the U.S. soil to his
6 First Nations' soil. He was incarcerated for his
7 misdeeds, but I doubt if his attitude will change much.
8 1044 Fortunately, last summer I was a
9 guest on an Elder Hostel in Yellowknife and a Métis was
10 in charge of our education there, and he gave a totally
11 different attitude of our First Nations' people. He
12 was half Indian and half French and made sure that we
13 knew that because he said half breeds are half native
14 and half English, so we knew where his loyalties were
15 lying. But he would not be able to communicate as well
16 as he does if it had not been for, first of all, his
17 residential schooling, which he said was wonderful;
18 and, secondly, because of CBC he can reflect his
19 people's views.
20 1045 Other than through Elder Hostel, he
21 can tell people who are broadcasting on CBC from the
22 Northwest Territories that this is part of our country,
23 our village, our small country. He thinks of it as a
24 vast country because up there nothing is small. The
25 sky is big, the forest fires are huge, the lakes are
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1 endless, the lands, the barrens, indescribable for
2 anyone who has never seen them.
3 1046 I can't without emotion, obviously,
4 say enough about my feelings as a Canadian, because in
5 my early life I was a housewife who was totally
6 isolated -- not in our north but in Welland County
7 which is also along the U.S.A./Canadian border. I had
8 no telephone, no car, and babies, and you know they tie
9 you very securely to the home.
10 1047 CBC was my lifeline. I had come from
11 a university milieu where I had people to talk to and
12 suddenly I had infants. I mean, I wanted them, but who
13 knows how I would have coped if I hadn't had the
14 intellectual stimulus of CBC and the musical stimulus.
15 1048 Fortunately, my three children and
16 their three mates and my eight grandchildren are all
17 following in my listening footsteps even though four of
18 them are, heaven forbid, living and working in
19 Michigan, but I see them frequently.
20 1049 Recently, my daughter and I, to
21 preserve her foot in Canada, as she says, have
22 purchased a cottage in that area of Essex County that
23 is not being adequately served by CBC TV in Windsor. I
24 say "not adequately" because their signal isn't strong
25 enough to be seen really clearly, as clearly as the
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1 American signals are. So I'm one of those that only
2 hears Canadian news in my car, from my car radio, now
3 that I live in the boondocks of Essex County in the
4 middle of the most profitable agricultural sector of
5 Ontario.
6 1050 I notice a different attitude among
7 the children, among the adults with whom I have been
8 connecting these past two weeks since I moved. It is
9 why I moved to that part of our area, because I find it
10 distressing that our children, as Paul said, are
11 listening to American television predominantly and it's
12 very difficult to instruct them on Canadian values when
13 they aren't reinforced by your outer media, the media
14 that they are bombarded with daily, nightly, all the
15 time, in the middle of the night if they can't sleep.
16 1051 I do try to echo all of those things
17 that I have heard from all the other speakers and I
18 thank you for your opportunity to let me say what I
19 have said.
20 1052 THE CHAIRPERSON: We thank you,
21 Mrs. McLaren.
22 1053 Our next presenter is
23 Kerri Kavanaugh.
24 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
25 1054 MS KAVANAUGH: Good evening.
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1 1055 I would like to take this time to say
2 thank you for allowing us to fit in here.
3 1056 My name is Kerri Kavanaugh. This is
4 Summer Turnbull and Ernest Chiasson. We will be
5 speaking about implementing a multicultural youth
6 education program.
7 1057 A way to improve the CBC's television
8 broadcasting for the new millennium: By strengthening
9 Canada's youth, by providing an inclusive society
10 through which the implementation of better television
11 broadcasting to which people of all backgrounds, whose
12 identities are respected and recognized as vital to an
13 ever-evolving Canadian identity, feel a sense of
14 belonging and attachment to our country.
15 1058 We feel that CBC should embrace the
16 federal Canadian multiculturalism policy to implement
17 more responsible youth-oriented programming geared
18 towards cultural diversity and awareness.
19 1059 Because Canada has become one of the
20 most culturally diverse places to live in the world,
21 this education is essential in creating a solid
22 foundation for children before negative stereotypes are
23 produced. This education is needed to better prepare
24 children for the ever-evolving multicultural world that
25 lies ahead. These necessary life skills are needed to
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1 be successful in social aspects of life and as well as
2 in the workplace when they grow up.
3 1060 Also, due to the geographic vastness
4 of Canada, it may become impossible for our youth to
5 experience a wide variety of cultures that Canada does
6 have to offer. CBC already displays a cast of
7 multicultural characters on their shows. However,
8 there is little or no exhibition of these individuals'
9 cultural backgrounds, therefore, masking any
10 differences that do exist.
11 1061 We are aware that programs dealing
12 with this subject matter are available for adults,
13 however it is our youth that could benefit the most
14 from this bond-to-bond and instill patriotism in our
15 youth by providing a sense of involvement for them.
16 1062 Based on the redesigned
17 multiculturalism goal, we are able to gain a better
18 understanding of what is needed to implement such a
19 program. The goals are: identity, which is fostering
20 a society that recognizes, respects and reflects a
21 diversity of cultures that such people of all
22 backgrounds feel a sense of and belonging and
23 attachment to Canada; civic participation, which is
24 developing among Canada's diverse people active
25 citizens with both the opportunity and the capacity to
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1 participate in shaping the future of their communities
2 and their country and social justice; and building a
3 society that ensures fair and equitable treatment and
4 that respects the dignity of and accommodates people of
5 all origins.
6 1063 These three goals are closely tied to
7 some of the central social issues of our time. These
8 issues directly involve our children and our youth.
9 CBC could much improve their stability towards this
10 country as strong ties to child and youth programming
11 would be implemented, supporting not ignoring issues of
12 cultural diversity.
13 1064 One of the strategies CBC planned to
14 implement was to make CBC as Canadian as possible. We
15 urge those responsible for making these strategic
16 decisions to implement programs that would patriate
17 Canadians at an early age.
18 1065 We appear to stand alone in a world
19 where everyone of second and third generation still
20 think of themselves in terms of their ethnic
21 background. Since Canada is now well over 100 years
22 old, it is time for us to begin thinking of ourselves
23 primarily as Canadian while still embracing and
24 celebrating our diverse and ethnic backgrounds.
25 1066 Summer has something.
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1 1067 MS TURNBULL: We are not ignoring the
2 fact that the CBC does show a variety of different
3 ethnic races. I would like to make a reference to the
4 show Pynjew(ph), which is a Japanese show. However, we
5 do feel that the programs that are offered lack
6 multicultural differences in showing the different
7 races, cultures, beliefs, values and entertainment.
8 1068 The decision made by the CRTC 87-40
9 which states:
10 "...a renewal of the CBC
11 contract with particular focus
12 on the youth and children. The
13 Commission believes that the CBC
14 should develop alternative
15 offerings which even if they
16 attract fewer youth would at
17 least give those it did attract
18 a reflection and a sense of
19 Canada." (As read)
20 1069 Thank you.
21 1070 MS KAVANAUGH: I'm sorry. Also, with
22 that, in the CBC's recommendations for the CBC renewal
23 licence, it is stated that:
24 "Children and youth represent
25 the sum of 22% of our population
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1 and are an especially important
2 group because they are a future
3 audience for Canadian
4 programming. If we do step back
5 too quickly and abandon them to
6 the lure of imported programs or
7 channels, it is impossible they
8 will develop a taste for
9 domestic television later. It
10 is this direct connection they
11 need to feel to our country."
12 (As read)
13 1071 CBC is not meeting these guidelines
14 and providing a sense of cultural identity, no matter
15 what culture they may belong to. It is this education
16 that is severely lacking. And for CBC to continue in
17 the good manner in which they have been, they need to
18 educate our youths. They are the most important ones
19 because they are going to be our future leaders.
20 1072 Thank you.
21 1073 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Kerri.
22 1074 Could you just clarify for me what
23 you were quoting from. Is it the licence decision, the
24 1994 Licence Decision?
25 1075 MS KAVANAUGH: Yes. But it's the
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1 licensing decision from July 27th, 1994, 94-4-37.
2 1076 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
3 much. Thank you to you all.
4 1077 That completes the list of names, but
5 do you want to check back.
6 1078 MR. RHÉAUME: Maybe we could ask
7 again Mr. David Shragge; Mr. Dean La Bute;
8 Dr. Alfie Morgan; and, finally, Mr. Corey Tomkimson.
9 1079 MR. SHIELDS: Would it be possible to
10 add my name to it?
11 1080 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes. I was just
12 going to suggest, if there was anyone in the room who
13 would like to make a comment.
14 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
15 1081 MR. SHIELDS: Thank you for this
16 opportunity. I hadn't anticipated speaking this
17 evening.
18 1082 I'm fortunate enough to teach at the
19 University of Windsor and 17 of my students have
20 presented this evening in one of the two rooms here.
21 1083 I teach telecommunication policy at
22 the university. What I have noticed each of them speak
23 on was the inability of the CRTC to enforce the
24 conditions of licence that has been previously placed
25 on the CBC.
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1 1084 Each of the groups have quoted the
2 last conditions of licence that the CRTC laid out for
3 the CBC and in each case the CBC failed to meet those
4 conditions.
5 1085 I have heard many people this evening
6 speak about the importance of an increased budget to
7 the CBC, which is an absolute necessity and I more than
8 agree with that. My concerns lie in somehow for the
9 CRTC to provide, make some form of provision, whereby
10 the CBC becomes more accountable to their conditions of
11 licence. The failures are rampant throughout the last
12 conditions of licence. There are many instances. I
13 don't feel there is a need for me to go into them. I
14 think many of the students this evening have gone
15 through many of the topics.
16 1086 Let me point out that the funding for
17 my education came from the CBC. I have been fortunate
18 enough to play the lead in three of their movies, a
19 lead in their series, and I have made several
20 documentaries with the CBC. I feel very fortunate to
21 live in a country that allows for a corporation such as
22 the CBC to exist. However, if the CRTC intends to
23 place conditions on the licence of the CBC and intends
24 for those conditions to be played out, then, history
25 has told us that the CBC perhaps might not do that.
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1 I'm not certain of a mechanism that would allow for
2 that, but I would hope the CRTC would consider those
3 infractions.
4 1087 Thanks very much.
5 1088 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much
6 for those comments.
7 1089 Are there any other people in the
8 room who would like to say a few words and join us at
9 the table?
10 1090 If not, could I ask, Mr. Taylor --
11 are you ready to comment right now, Mr. Taylor from the
12 CBC?
13 REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
14 1091 MR. TAYLOR: Madam Chair, this
15 afternoon, on behalf of the CBC, I would like to thank
16 all those who took the time and who cared enough to
17 make presentations to you about the services that we
18 provide.
19 1092 My name is Bruce Taylor. I represent
20 English television, and have made copious notes to make
21 sure that all of those issues which relate to English
22 television get back to the proper places.
23 1093 My colleagues representing CBC radio,
24 CBC English radio, CBC French radio and television, at
25 this time they are all here, as well as are similar
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1 representatives in the other room also making sure that
2 that happens.
3 1094 So once again, thank you very much;
4 and thank you to the Commission for coming to Windsor
5 so that these people could make their comments,
6 concerns, ideas and suggestions known.
7 1095 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
8 much, Mr. Taylor.
9 1096 I would like to take the opportunity
10 to thank everyone who participated in this process this
11 afternoon and this evening in Windsor. I'm sure my
12 colleague across the barrier there will be also
13 thanking or has already thanked the participants. This
14 process is only as successful as the participation of
15 Canadians across the country who come forward to
16 express their views.
17 1097 After our days here in Windsor and
18 Sudbury, we cannot help but see that community and
19 others are certainly ready to come forward and express
20 their views.
21 1098 I have often asked: What are the
22 themes that are emerging? Without breaking any rules,
23 I think I can say quite clearly that there certainly is
24 a sense of community here in Windsor that was
25 unmistakeable, and I really appreciate you bringing
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1 that forward to our attention, and all the unique
2 aspects of this particular area of the country.
3 1099 J'aimerais remercier tout le monde
4 qui est venu ce soir et pendant l'après-midi pour nous
5 apporter leurs réflexions sur l'avenir de Radio-Canada.
6 J'aimerais remercier aussi notre reporteur et
7 technicien.
8 1100 Sorry, to the technician for the ups
9 and downs of the microphones, but as Nicholas will
10 remember if there is one thing that is sure, at his
11 film screening the old fashioned bulbs will once in
12 awhile go. They will always pop on you.
13 1101 Thank you very much to everyone.
14 Thank you to my colleague. Once again, we really
15 appreciate your participating in this consultation.
16 1102 As I said in my earlier remarks, the
17 hearings for the licence renewals are at the end of May
18 in Hull and you can participate in that hearing through
19 writing to the CTC.
20 1103 Thank you again.
21 1104 That closes the public consultations.
22 1105 One final note, though. We did say
23 we would go until 10:00. My colleague and I will
24 remain here for a short while just in case somebody
25 does come in a little later, but I think not. I think
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1 if anybody was coming down tonight they would be here
2 by now. So I feel comfortable to say goodnight to you
3 all and thank you.
4 --- Recess at 2030 / Suspension à 2030
5 --- Upon resuming at 2035 / Reprise à 2035
6 1106 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Tomkimson is
7 here.
8 1107 Are you ready to go? Whenever you
9 are ready we are ready to hear you.
10 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
11 1108 MR. TOMKIMSON: Before I begin, I
12 would like to make the point that I am here strictly as
13 a member of the public and as a viewer, an audience
14 member of the CBC.
15 1109 My presentation has to do with the
16 military, the Canadian forces and the Department of
17 National Defence, and I want you to know that I am not
18 representing them. These are my own views and do not
19 necessarily reflect the views of the Canadian forces in
20 any way, just as a common disclaimer.
21 1110 I would like to begin by saying that
22 there is a lack of representation for a large group of
23 loyal Canadians. People from all walks of life, from
24 St. John's to Victoria, and Alert to Windsor, risk
25 their lives on a daily basis at home and abroad. These
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1 people are those standing on guard for thee.
2 1111 When one mentions the Canadian
3 forces, many conjure up images of hazing rituals and
4 the Somalia scandal. The mainstream media has not been
5 kind to the men and women associated with the Canadian
6 military. In the past, a lack of fairness has been
7 voted towards the Canadian military in covering vital
8 stories. We know this from the Oka crisis of 1990,
9 Operation Desert Storm in 1991 and the events leading
10 to the Somalia Inquiry.
11 1112 Yes, these are newsworthy items and
12 they deserve to be reported to Canadians, we, as the
13 public have a right to know. But the CBC also
14 broadcasts miniseries such as The Valour and the Horror
15 from which many upset veterans came forward.
16 1113 The problem is beyond bad press there
17 is a deep-rooted misunderstanding of our country's
18 Department of National Defence, and this I feel is
19 largely due to ignorance.
20 1114 To change this, the Canadian public
21 must be educated. The CBC as a national public
22 broadcaster has the means to do it. Canadians should
23 become aware of the real military and meet the real
24 people who continue to make it function. The CBC has a
25 vast broadcasting network capable of reaching the
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1 majority of Canadians and has the resources to produce
2 quality programming with limited financial needs.
3 1115 A program which is 100 per cent
4 Canadian, inexpensive, simple to produce which serves a
5 single unique purpose is the stuff that dreams are made
6 of for broadcasters such as the CBC.
7 1116 I'm sure most of you are well aware
8 of the recent events in which the military were
9 involved in great numbers. For example, the Saguenay
10 Flood in Quebec; the Red River Flood in Manitoba;
11 Ice Storm '98 which, as you know, disabled most of
12 eastern Ontario and western Quebec; Hurricane Mitch in
13 Central America; and most recently the snow induced
14 state of emergency in Toronto. Only during these
15 crisis did the military receive a favourable coverage
16 for their swift action in saving lives and putting
17 their fellow human beings first. You might think the
18 Canadian forces are mainly involved with the United
19 Nations' peacekeeping missions. Well, here are some
20 numbers for your information.
21 1117 This year, the total regular force
22 consists of approximately 60,000 personnel. The
23 reserves hold an additional 30,000. A total of 20,000
24 civilians are employed by the DND and the Canadian
25 forces. From a total of approximately 110,000
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1 personnel, nearly 1,400 are currently serving with the
2 UN in peacekeeping duties.
3 1118 So what else is there to know? Well,
4 perhaps you would be interested in knowing how many
5 lives were saved last year by the men and women who
6 performed search and rescue patrols from sea to sea and
7 everywhere in between. Perhaps you would like to know
8 who the Canadian rangers are and how they assist the
9 Inuit peoples of the north. What about a youth
10 training organization which currently holds a
11 membership of over 15,000?
12 1119 Yes, there are many aspects of
13 military life never explored by the mainstream media.
14 A program dedicated to understanding privates to
15 generals, their families, their jobs and how it all
16 effects Canadians would benefit both the misunderstood
17 military and the misinformed public. This program I'm
18 speaking of would span the three elements -- army, navy
19 and air force -- and would look at everything from
20 fighter pilots to cooks, doctors to musicians, and
21 clerks to the chief of defence staff themselves.
22 1120 Now I come to the question: Why the
23 CBC? Why not a private broadcaster?
24 1121 The answer is twofold. First, from
25 the perspective of journalism, the CBC must inform the
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1 public on all aspects of the Canadian military, not
2 focusing mainly on the negative while only portraying
3 the limited positive undertakings.
4 1122 Secondly, the CBC, as a public
5 broadcaster, is required to foster a Canadian sense of
6 culture and identity. By offering an insight to the
7 Canadian people of who and what their tax dollars
8 support, the CBC would satisfy one part of their
9 mandate. The CBC, with the support of National
10 Defence, could put such a program in Canadian living
11 rooms.
12 1123 I understand the force's population
13 of approximately 110,000 may seem small in contrast to
14 the audience of the CBC, but the numbers I spoke of
15 earlier are just enrolled personnel. Multiply that by
16 three and you might have a rough estimate of military
17 dependence. So over 330,000 people's lives, who we as
18 a public are not aware, represents a reason in its own
19 for a creation of this type of programming.
20 1124 I urge the members of the CRTC here
21 before me to seriously consider what I have brought to
22 your attention. If steps are taken immediately to
23 investigate the possibility of this type of
24 programming, perhaps we as Canadians can once again be
25 proud of the men and women who risk their lives and
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1 stand on guard for thee.
2 1125 Thank you.
3 1126 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
4 much, Mr. Tomkimson.
5 1127 I said in my opening remarks this
6 afternoon and this evening that in order to allow
7 everyone to speak we would not ask questions, so please
8 don't take my not asking a question as any comment on
9 your remarks.
10 1128 Also, as you know, your remarks are
11 entered into the public record and they will join the
12 public record of the CRTC hearing at the end of May, at
13 the hearings in May, which will look into the renewal
14 of licences, all the CBC licences. So your remarks
15 will be carried forward to that hearing as well.
16 1129 MR. TOMKIMSON: Okay.
17 1130 THE CHAIRPERSON: If you wish to make
18 any further comment at the renewal of the CBC licences,
19 you can do so by writing to the CRTC and the public
20 notices will allow you to know what the timing is for
21 that as well.
22 1131 MR. TOMKIMSON: Okay.
23 1132 THE CHAIRPERSON: CBC has also been
24 here at all our sessions and are asked to make any
25 comments at the end of the evening, so I would like
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1 them to speak to you as well.
2 REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
3 1133 MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Tomkimson, I'm
4 Bruce Taylor from CBC Television. I would just like to
5 say thank you for taking the time to make a
6 presentation about the service we provide, and we have
7 taken due note.
8 1134 Thank you very much.
9 1135 MR. TOMKIMSON: Okay. Thank you very
10 much.
11 --- Whereupon the consultation concluded at 2015 /
12 Le consultation se termine à 2015
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