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Providing Content in Canada's Official Languages
Please note that the Official Languages Act requires that government publications be available in both official languages.
In order to meet some of the requirements under this Act, the Commission's transcripts will therefore be bilingual as to their covers, the listing of CRTC members and staff attending the hearings, and the table of contents.
However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded verbatim transcript and, as such, is transcribed in either of the official languages, depending on the language spoken by the participant at the hearing.
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
FOR THE CANADIAN RADIO-TELEVISION AND
TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DU
CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION
ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES
SUBJECT / SUJET:
PUBLIC CONSULTATION ON THE
CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION (CBC)/
CONSULTATIONS PUBLIQUES SUR LA
SOCIÉTÉ RADIO-CANADA (SRC)
HELD AT: TENUE À:
Delta Regina Hotel Hôtel Delta Regina
Trentino Room Salle Trentino
1919 Saskatchewan Drive 1919, promenade Saskatchewan
Regina, Saskatchewan Regina (Saskatchewan)
March 11, 1999 Le 11 mars 1999
tel: 613-521-0703 StenoTran fax: 613-521-7668
Transcripts
In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages
Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be
bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members
and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of
Contents.
However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded
verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in
either of the official languages, depending on the language
spoken by the participant at the public hearing.
Transcription
Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues
officielles, les procès-verbaux pour le Conseil seront
bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des
membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience
publique ainsi que la table des matières.
Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu
textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée
et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues
officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le
participant à l'audience publique.
StenoTran
Canadian Radio-television and
Telecommunications Commission
Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des
télécommunications canadiennes
Transcript / Transcription
Public Hearing / Audience publique
PUBLIC CONSULTATION ON THE
CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION (CBC)/
CONSULTATIONS PUBLIQUES SUR LA
SOCIÉTÉ RADIO-CANADA (SRC)
BEFORE / DEVANT:
Barbara Cram Chairperson / Présidente
Commissioner / Conseillère
Andrée Wylie Commissioner / Conseillère
Vice-Chairperson,
Broadcasting /
Vice-présidente,
Radiodiffusion
ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS:
Gary Krushen Director, Winnipeg Regional
Office / Directeur
régional, Winnipeg
Peter McCallum Commission Counsel /
Avocat du Conseil
Rod Lahay Secretary / Secrétaire
HELD AT: TENUE À:
Delta Regina Hotel Hôtel Delta Regina
Trentino Room Salle Trentino
1919 Saskatchewan Drive 1919, promenade Saskatchewan
Regina, Saskatchewan Regina (Saskatchewan)
March 11, 1999 Le 11 mars 1999
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ii
TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES
PAGE
Presentation by / Présentation par:
Mr. James Benning 6
Mr. Bruce Steele 16
Mr. Lorne Cherneski 26
Hon. Bernard Wiens 33
Mr. Steven Onda 48
Mr. Chris Axworthy 52
Mr. Gary Hyland 57
Mr. Tony Richmond 66
Mr. Brian Docjack 73
Mr. Victor Lau 78
Mrs. Barbara Stange 89
Ms Jennifer Stowell 94
Ms Elaine Driver 97
Mr. Al Taylor 104
Mr. Lee Boyko 108
Mr. Jonathan Bingham 114
Ms Ida Grosse 120
Mr. Brian Cousins 126
Mr. Norman Bray 135
M. Marcel Michaud 143
Mr. Andy Anderson and Mrs. Cathy Anderson 152
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TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES
PAGE
Presentation by / Présentation par:
Ms Olive Lukey 161
Mr. John O'Donaghue 162
Ms Tasha Hubbard 167
Mr. Don Archbold 174
Ms Marge Robinson 180
Reply by / Réplique par:
Mr. Bill Gerald 185
Presentation by / Présentation par:
Ms Brenda Baker 194
Mr. Ron Clark 208
Mr. Dan Cameron 212
Ms Lucy Eley 217
Mr. Kevin DeWalt 221
Mr. Robert Waldegger 233
M. Raymond Morin 237
Mme Claudia Poirier 250
Mme Claire Bélanger-Parker 257
Mr. Armand Roy 263
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TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES
PAGE
Presentation by / Présentation par:
M. Stephen Kenny 270
Mr. Jim Elliott 275
Dr. Bromley 286
Mr. Elmer Hildebrand 288
Dr. Edward Lewis 292
Mr. Darcy McKenzie 297
Ms Alex Zypchyn for Ms Karyn Zypchyn 302
Ms Cathy Currey 315
Reply by / Réplique par:
M. Lionel Bonneville 320
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1 Regina, Saskatchewan / Regina (Saskatchewan)
2 --- Upon commencing on Wednesday, March 11, 1999
3 at 1300 / L'audience reprend le mercredi
4 11 mars 1999, à 1300
5 1 THE CHAIRPERSON: Good day, ladies
6 and gentlemen; bonjour, mesdames et messieurs.
7 2 Bienvenue à cette consultation
8 publique. Welcome to this public consultation on the
9 CBC.
10 3 My name is Barbara Cram, and I am a
11 CRTC Commissioner. To my left is Andrée Wylie, also a
12 CRTC Commissioner and Vice-Chairman of Broadcasting in
13 the CRTC.
14 4 We are here to gather your views and
15 comments on CBC radio and television: In your opinion,
16 how should the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation fulfil
17 its role in the coming years?
18 5 The CBC is a national public service,
19 broadcasting in English as well as in French. It plays
20 an important role in the Canadian broadcasting system.
21 Today many elements are constantly being added to the
22 broadcasting system, as new technologies multiply,
23 converge, open up new horizons and increasingly offer
24 new services. In this context, we want to know what
25 are your needs and expectations as listeners and
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1 viewers of CBC.
2 6 Given that, it is very important that
3 the Commission hears what you have to say. We must not
4 lose sight of the fact that the CRTC is a public
5 organization that serves Canadian citizens. In this
6 capacity, we are responsible to you. This is why my
7 fellow Commissioners and myself find it vital to come
8 and meet with you to discuss these issues and why we
9 are holding this series of regional consultations from
10 one end of the country to the other, in 11 Canadian
11 cities, from March 9th to 18th.
12 7 These consultations are designed to
13 give you a chance on the eve of the new millennium to
14 express your opinion of the CBC's role, the programming
15 it offers and the direction it should take at the
16 national, regional and local levels.
17 8 Through these consultations we hope
18 to enter into an open dialogue with you and hear your
19 concerns. Your comments will form part of the public
20 record, which will be added to the record of the public
21 hearing on the CBC that will begin in Hull next May
22 25th.
23 9 At this upcoming hearing the
24 Commission will examine the CBC's application for the
25 renewal of its licences, including radio, television
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1 and its specialty services Newsworld and Réseau des
2 Informations.
3 10 You can also take part in that public
4 hearing by sending your written comments to the CRTC.
5 If you wish to do so, please remember to refer to the
6 specific licence renewals being examined when you file
7 your comments.
8 11 I would like to come back to today's
9 consultations.
10 12 Please allow me to introduce the CRTC
11 staff who will be assisting us today: Peter McCallum
12 is our legal counsel; Mr. Rod Lahay is with our
13 Broadcasting Department; and Gary Krushen, who is at
14 the entrance, is the Director of our Winnipeg Regional
15 Office.
16 13 Please feel free to call on them with
17 any questions you might have about the process today or
18 any other matter.
19 14 So that you will all have the
20 opportunity to speak, we ask that you please limit your
21 representations to ten minutes. As these consultations
22 are a forum designed specifically for you, and we will
23 want to listen to as many participants as possible, we
24 will not ask any questions unless we need
25 clarification.
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1 15 At the end of the session,
2 representatives from the local CBC stations will have a
3 chance to offer their views, as they are naturally very
4 interested in the issues we are discussing here today.
5 16 Before I start, I would like to ask
6 Mr. Lahay to go over some of the housekeeping matters
7 regarding the conduct of this consultation.
8 17 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Commissioner
9 Cram.
10 18 Before we get started, just a few
11 things I would like to bring to your attention.
12 19 First, we do have translation
13 services over here; in English on Channel 1, on French
14 on Channel 2.
15 20 We have been asked that you provide a
16 driver's licence or a major credit card, please, which
17 will be returned to you when you return the devices.
18 21 We will be conducting breaks
19 throughout the sessions today. We will try to bring to
20 your attention when the breaks take place, so that you
21 can step out for a few moments.
22 22 We have a comment sheet outside with
23 Mr. Krushen. We would like to hear your comments about
24 the process. Anything you have to say about it, we
25 would appreciate that.
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1 23 In order to talk, when you come
2 forward please push the white button on the microphone
3 so that you will be heard and so that your comments
4 will be placed on the official record with the
5 transcorders.
6 24 I will be calling the first group of
7 ten people to come forward, to come up here and sit
8 down. We would appreciate it, when you do your
9 presentation, if you would give your name so that it
10 will be placed on the record. The proceedings are
11 being transcribed, and we will have an idea of who said
12 what.
13 25 To reiterate what Commissioner Cram
14 said, there is a ten-minute limit. We actually do
15 respect that. It makes it a lot easier when 10 o'clock
16 comes around tonight.
17 26 I would like to call the first ten
18 presenters to come up and make yourselves at home.
19 27 We will take you in this particular
20 order: Richard Gustin or Jim Benning; Bruce Steele;
21 Lorne Cherneski; Hon. Bernard Wiens; Steven Onda; Chris
22 Axworthy; Gary Hyland; Tony Richmond; Brian Dojack;
23 Victor Lau.
24 28 Mr. Benning or Mr. Gustin, feel free
25 to start at your convenience.
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1 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
2 29 MR. BENNING: Good afternoon. SCN
3 would like to thank the Commission for coming to
4 Saskatchewan and providing an opportunity to discuss
5 issues concerning the Canadian Broadcasting
6 Corporation.
7 30 My name is James Benning, and I am
8 the President and CEO of SCN, Saskatchewan
9 Communications Network.
10 31 With me, on my left, is Richard
11 Gustin, SCN's Executive Director of Programming.
12 32 Madam Chair, to begin, I would like
13 to welcome you back to Saskatchewan. I believe this is
14 your first official hearing in Saskatchewan. We
15 welcome you back, and we look forward to great work
16 from you on the CRTC.
17 33 I want to also welcome Madam Wylie,
18 whom I have met before in previous hearings. I know
19 her judgment and discernment is very fair, and I know
20 her wisdom will be well used today.
21 34 The Canadian broadcasting system is
22 driven by commercial interests and exists primarily to
23 serve the money making requirements of those interests.
24 Programming and programming services which Section 3 of
25 the Act states should be available to all Canadians do
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1 not exist or have been replaced by something more
2 bottom line driven.
3 35 The mainstays of commercial
4 television programming consist of dramas, sports,
5 reality and tabloid programming designed to attract all
6 the important 18-34 demographic. Less desirable
7 portions of the audience are ignored.
8 36 CNN and the Playboy Channel are
9 available to pretty well every Canadian household
10 willing to pay for them, while broadcasting services
11 which speak to local, regional and educational issues
12 do not exist in many parts of the country. The
13 Broadcasting Act speaks to a system of public, private
14 and community educational broadcasters meeting a
15 variety of needs, but the actual Canadian broadcasting
16 landscape looks quite different.
17 37 Commercial radio's quest to attract
18 listeners has led to franchised format specific program
19 packages, talk radio Howard Stern "wannabes", and a
20 steady stream of contests to buy listeners.
21 38 In Regina there is a commercial radio
22 station running a contest where listeners call in with
23 stories of their most embarrassing moments. These
24 stories seem to feature urination and other bodily
25 functions. Community tastes and standards have been
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1 discarded.
2 39 In the land of commercial radio there
3 are no listeners under 12 or over 40.
4 40 SCN appreciates the chance to speak
5 to issues concerning public broadcasting and the CBC.
6 We could suggest that the Commission could conduct a
7 similar inquiry as part of licence renewal processes
8 for commercial broadcasters and specialty services, to
9 see how they have done in meeting the programming
10 requirements as set out in the Broadcasting Act.
11 41 SCN awaits the results of CRTC's
12 Canadian Television Policy Review -- that done under
13 Public Notice 1998-44 -- as the Canadian broadcasting
14 system available to most Canadians is considerably
15 different from that described in the Broadcasting Act.
16 42 SCN has spoken to some of these
17 issues in the past, and I refer you to our submission
18 to the Commission back in June of 1988.
19 43 Incidentally, it was called "Voices
20 in the Wilderness".
21 44 As a publicly funded regional
22 educational broadcaster, SCN has first-hand experience
23 in dealing with cutbacks and operating on a limited
24 budget. We sympathize with the management and staff of
25 the CBC as they try to forge a new path in Canadian
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1 broadcasting.
2 45 SCN does not want to say that CBC is
3 doing a bad job. In spite of a great deal of adversity
4 and uncertainty, many parts of, and people in, the CBC
5 are doing a superb job.
6 46 The cutbacks imposed on the CBC have
7 been substantial, and there have been times when the
8 Corporation appeared to be having a very difficult
9 time.
10 47 CBC radio seems to have done a fairly
11 good job of managing the changes and still maintains a
12 strong regional presence, featuring several hours per
13 day of live regional news and information programming.
14 This, combined with national news, information and
15 cultural programming, makes CBC radio a unique source
16 of regional and Canadian information, particularly when
17 compared to commercial alternatives.
18 48 CBC television does not seem to have
19 coped as well with the changing financial and
20 broadcasting realities. It has retreated into its
21 Toronto production centre and become just another
22 broadcaster. In spite of locating the television
23 studios on the top floor, CBC's Toronto building just
24 isn't tall enough to show us much of the rest of
25 Canada. Worse yet, the cutbacks to the CBC have been
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1 mirrored by CTV and CanWest Global as they consolidate
2 and centralize their operations.
3 49 All of this is happening at a time
4 when the Canadian film and television industry is
5 booming. Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver have become
6 major production centres and are pumping out
7 programming for Canadian, American and world markets.
8 Technological advantages and a growing population of
9 skilled information workers have made it possible to
10 produce high-quality programming almost anywhere in the
11 country.
12 50 CBC television has been slow to adapt
13 to this changing broadcasting environment. Over the
14 past few years the regions have been gutted, and
15 resources hoarded in Toronto. Sticking with
16 traditional methods of production, the Corporation has
17 been slow in coming to the realization that it can't be
18 everything for everyone. It continues to chase major
19 entertainment and sports projects trying to maintain a
20 mass audience while ignoring the informational needs of
21 many Canadians.
22 51 From SCN's perspective, it appears
23 that the regions and commitments to regional
24 programming must be listed as the casualties of the
25 cutbacks.
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1 52 CBC has become a major player in the
2 booming Toronto and Montreal production communities,
3 but it is only interested in regionally produced
4 projects when they are tailored to a national audience.
5 CBC Newsworld has done better, being an active
6 participant in the Canadian documentary scene.
7 53 Up until the cutbacks began, CBC had
8 a large well staffed plant in Regina capable of
9 producing in-house network quality programming. Since
10 then, the regional television production staff and
11 budget have been reduced to the point where it is
12 impossible to mount any kind of serious in-house
13 production in Regina.
14 54 CBC radio, being used to smaller
15 production staff and limited resources, still manages
16 to provide a mix of local and regionally specific
17 programming.
18 55 In the early 1990s, regional CBC
19 television was licensing regionally produced
20 independent productions for broadcast within the
21 region. However, about 30 months ago, as regional
22 programming windows ended, the CBC ceased to be
23 involved in projects for regional use.
24 56 What Saskatchewan is left with is a
25 CBC TV news unit, a handful of hard working radio
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1 people, and just enough skeleton staff to keep the
2 lights on in the building.
3 57 SCN has been able to rent surplus
4 office space and some production capacity for distance
5 education classes. Independent producers have been
6 able to rent television studio and production space for
7 non-CBC productions.
8 58 Following the CBC's lead, Global and
9 CTV affiliates in the region have cut back to the point
10 where one of Canada's three national television
11 networks have any ability or willingness to participate
12 in regional projects in Saskatchewan.
13 59 Over the past several years, Canada's
14 regional film and video industries have started to come
15 of age, propelled at least in part by the new Specialty
16 channels licensed by CRTC and their requirements for
17 Canadian content. Saskatchewan has been part of this
18 process with the film and video sector becoming one of
19 the fastest growing sectors in Saskatchewan's economy.
20 60 SCN, working with limited resources,
21 takes credit for some of the growth of the independent
22 film and video industry in the province. At a time
23 when other broadcasters have been eliminating regional
24 programming deals, SCN has been steadily increasing its
25 commitment to regional programming in terms of total
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1 dollar amounts, percentage of SCN's programming budget,
2 and total numbers of projects, in spite of having a
3 smaller budget now than five years ago.
4 61 Unfortunately, SCN cannot afford to
5 license or commission programming of interest to
6 Saskatchewan alone. Most of the programming produced
7 in Saskatchewan ends up being tailored for export as
8 well, and reflects less of ourselves. Saskatchewan
9 producers have to go to Toronto to make deals because,
10 except for SCN, they can't make them here.
11 62 Although the Saskatchewan film and
12 video industry is growing, it is still very hard for
13 our producers to tell Saskatchewan stories and speak to
14 Saskatchewan needs.
15 63 Even so, if it wasn't for SCN, there
16 would be considerably less regional television
17 production made or shown in Saskatchewan. Not every
18 province has an SCN. SCN deals with independent
19 producers from all over the country, and we know how
20 hard it is for many of them to put together deals on
21 programming in their own regions.
22 64 SCN also has a strong commitment to
23 quality programming for children aged 2 to 12. The
24 Knowledge Network in British Columbia, TeleQuébec and
25 TVOntario have similar commitments. SCN and the other
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1 educational broadcasters offer programming to address
2 the informational needs of seniors and aboriginal
3 people, as well, but not every province has a Knowledge
4 Network, an SCN, a TeleQuébec or a TVO.
5 65 Now when there are so many channel
6 alternatives, it is important for CBC television, as
7 Canada's public broadcaster, to focus on addressing the
8 specific areas as defined in Section 3 of the
9 Broadcasting Act, which are not currently being
10 provided by the commercial sectors.
11 66 Let the commercial broadcasters look
12 after sports, drama and much entertainment programming.
13 The CBC should be looking to address unfulfilled needs
14 in the areas of regional, informational, documentary,
15 and programming for portions of the audience not
16 currently being served.
17 67 CBC television needs to develop a
18 model of programming that is a mix of common
19 information programming relevant to all Canadians, and
20 regional and/or community-specific informational
21 programming for specific audiences and needs.
22 Resources need to be reallocated to address these
23 needs.
24 68 Not all of Canada is located in
25 Toronto. Other voices and perspectives need to be seen
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1 and heard. CBC television should be actively pursuing
2 regional partnerships in order to develop an ongoing
3 supply of varied programming produced in all parts of
4 the country.
5 69 MR. LAHAY: Excuse me. Could I ask
6 you to finalize, please. Your time has expired.
7 70 Thank you.
8 71 MR. BENNING: SCN would suggest that
9 the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation recast itself as
10 a source of information about itself rather than being
11 a traditional broadcaster or producer. Building on the
12 "Constellation of Services" concept, CBC should develop
13 the infrastructure to operate a variety of distribution
14 outlet and vehicles, working with the independent
15 production sector and other players in the industry.
16 72 In conclusion, SCN strongly affirms
17 the need for a healthy national broadcaster. CBC radio
18 should be commended for doing the good job it is doing
19 and be given adequate resources to continue. The
20 notion of merging CBC radio and television should be
21 avoided.
22 73 CBC television needs to reinvent
23 itself, re-supply and re-populate the regions, and act
24 like Canada's public broadcaster. Without a healthy
25 national public broadcaster and without regional and
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1 educational broadcasters, there is little hope of
2 achieving the vision and goals for the Canadian
3 broadcasting system.
4 74 Thank you.
5 75 MR. LAHAY: Thank you very much.
6 76 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
7 Benning and Mr. Gustin. It is nice to be home.
8 77 Mr. Lahay.
9 1323
10 78 MR. LAHAY: Thank you very much.
11 79 Our next presenter is Mr. Bruce
12 Steele.
13 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
14 80 MR. STEELE: Thank you.
15 Commissioners, staff of the Commission, audience
16 members, associates, my name is Bruce Steele. I am a
17 broadcast consultant.
18 81 I have worked in private, public and
19 educational radio and television, both local and
20 national, for 35 years. I am a staunch supporter of
21 public broadcasting, but I am truly saddened by what I
22 see as the inability of the CBC to perform its real
23 public function.
24 82 I had the great good fortune to work
25 with Graham Spry in the late 1960s and through the
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1 1970s. Spry ran the Canadian Broadcasting League, the
2 last incarnation of the Canadian Radio League, the
3 organization which he and Alan Plant founded in 1928
4 with the sole purpose of mustering support for public
5 broadcasting in Canada.
6 83 Neither man opposed private
7 broadcasting; rather, they proposed a blend, as Spry
8 would say, of the best of the American private model
9 and the British public model.
10 84 Let me pause briefly to assure you
11 that I am not about to re-tell tales of bygone days
12 when broadcasters were pioneers and drank their lunches
13 from vacuum tubes. I am going to use some of Mr.
14 Spry's ideas to examine what I think is wrong with the
15 CBC.
16 85 I will suggest steps that I think can
17 bring public broadcasting back to life.
18 86 I evoked Spry's name because Canada's
19 public broadcasting began with him and because little
20 of substance has changed in this debate or in this
21 nation since 1928. And I offer this as evidence.
22 87 In Spry's time Canada was the
23 second-largest geopolitical entity on the planet. Her
24 widely dispersed population totalled little more than
25 that of New York City and Los Angeles combined. Her
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1 resources were found deep in a formidable hinterland, a
2 great central plain, vast forest, shields and
3 mountainous regions. She is surrounded on three and
4 one-third sides by water and has northern reaches so
5 remote and cold as to be barely habitable.
6 88 Her two official and many unofficial
7 languages are in daily use. Her energy needs, industry
8 costs, food, clothing and housing requirements, in fact
9 her ways of working and living, are completely
10 different from our neighbour just to the south. And
11 none of that has changed in 70 years.
12 89 In Spry's heyday, as now, Canada's
13 private broadcasters were smitten with American
14 programs, which they rebroadcast willy-nilly and work
15 hard to emulate. It was for fear that Canada would
16 become awash in a U.S. radio tsunami that federal
17 coffers opened in the midst of the depression to
18 underwrite a series of radio plays and presentations on
19 Canadian themes, using Canadian actors, Canadian
20 writers, Canadian technicians -- and a foreign
21 director. But so it goes.
22 90 Spry and Plant saw such programming
23 as being a vital part of building a natural culture, an
24 identity, but there were two more reasons, principles
25 which drove them to promote a public broadcast centre.
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1 And the nurturing of Canadian culture leads from those
2 principles.
3 91 First on the list of principles is
4 the fact that the airwaves belong to the public of
5 Canada, pure and simple. They are a resource, like the
6 water, the forests, the minerals. They are part of the
7 central nervous system of the country. They pick
8 messages from everywhere and distribute them to the
9 nation.
10 92 But fundamentally, they are owned by
11 the citizens.
12 93 The second principle in public
13 broadcasting -- and I would like to thank whoever
14 printed this document (and it probably was me) for
15 losing the page I am trying to work from. But if I'm
16 such a damned good broadcaster, I should be able to
17 remember this, shouldn't I.
18 94 The second principle of this is that
19 the public broadcaster is there to provide a public
20 voice for the public, a voice in issues of concern to
21 all Canadians, a voice for people no matter where they
22 live in this country.
23 95 Most of us are easily smitten by
24 technology rather than philosophy, and today's
25 technology leaves no one outside the footprint of media
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1 at any time of day or night. I can personally tune in
2 to a Regina radio station after midnight and hear the
3 most listened to radio broadcaster in history. Art
4 Bell speaks live to over 10 million listeners from a
5 bedroom of his home on the high desert in Nevada. It
6 is amazing.
7 96 Just turn the dial and the CBC offers
8 programs from public broadcasters around the world.
9 Radio Two offers a world of music. CBC television and
10 Newsworld offer the world itself. It is fantastic.
11 97 But I know as a fact that day or
12 night, no matter which CBC service I tune to, I will
13 not find one radio or television series which is
14 produced in Saskatchewan and offered by the English
15 language public broadcast service to me and other
16 Canadians.
17 98 This lack of voice is the case in far
18 too many of this nation's regions.
19 99 Public broadcasting is not just about
20 seeing and hearing; it is about being seen and being
21 heard, whether you live in Toronto or Tuktoyaktuk, in
22 Montreal or Medicine Hat. It is about Canadians
23 talking to each other.
24 100 The promise of public broadcasting is
25 the promise of public voice. That is the issue which
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1 is at the heart of any discussion of the future of the
2 CBC. Today's CBC is in danger of becoming the
3 antithesis of that vision.
4 101 Before I left Toronto in the mid
5 1980s, I was a consultant to the Broadcast Centre
6 Development Project. Part of my contract was to help
7 to find the facilities required by radio in the new
8 broadcast centre, the building which replaced 26 other
9 CBC buildings in Toronto.
10 102 One day a directive came from above
11 to plan as if the entire system, 24 hours a day, seven
12 days a week had to come from Toronto. I believe that
13 everyone involved at the time considered this idea to
14 represent the worst case scenario.
15 103 Fifteen years later the imagined
16 scenario is coming true. More and more of the format
17 and content of the few remaining local shows on Radio
18 One is defined in, and provided by, Toronto.
19 104 Rumour has it that noon and afternoon
20 shows will soon become national feeds. Savings will go
21 to launch a new youth oriented Radio Three network.
22 105 Radio Two affords most regions almost
23 no local presence or input. Radio Two's goal is to
24 increase audience in the largest urban centres. Aside
25 from news, CBC regional television in most of Canada's
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1 regions has few, or no, local programming
2 opportunities.
3 106 As its funding is cut, the CBC's top
4 corporate managers focus resources on best bang for the
5 buck. Network production and co-production is done in
6 two or three centres. This again further diminishes
7 the chance that Saskatchewan, or other regional voices,
8 will be heard around the nation. But further, it means
9 that we can hardly find a way to speak to ourselves on
10 the regional service of the public broadcaster.
11 107 CBC television is proud of being a
12 prime purveyor of Canadian-made programs, mostly
13 produced in Toronto, Vancouver and Halifax, and this is
14 a laudable achievement for a broadcaster. But for
15 Canada's public broadcaster, it is only the base line.
16 In a satellite era, with services available from around
17 the planet, what else would we expect the national
18 public broadcaster to broadcast besides Canadian
19 programs?
20 108 CBC says it provides alternative
21 content. But as more channels come into our homes
22 every year, alternatives to mainstream broadcasts are
23 all over the dial.
24 109 As seen on the screen, CBC mirrors
25 the function, commercial content, promotional form and
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1 programming style of the mainstream private networks
2 and sometimes beats them at their own game.
3 110 Is that the purpose of a public
4 broadcast system? I don't believe so.
5 111 The need for a regionally-driven
6 non-commercial public broadcaster has not diminished
7 since 1928. It only increases as signals increase. I
8 believe CBC management has become confused and has
9 misplaced its mission and vision. It has forgotten who
10 owns it and who it serves. Its job is not to create of
11 our public broadcaster a Canadian voice; its job is to
12 give Canadians a voice on their public broadcaster.
13 112 No matter what its present
14 circumstances, CBC is too valuable a tool to lose. If
15 Chrysler can be salvaged, so can the corporation. The
16 CBC just needs some retooling.
17 113 What can be done so the corporation
18 and other institutions can fulfil the promise of public
19 broadcasting in Canada? Federal legislators and
20 regulators must clearly delineate between the roles and
21 structures of the public and private sectors. The
22 public broadcaster must be expected to facilitate and
23 encourage a diversity of expression by, and between,
24 regions as its prime directive, recognizing that in
25 this diversity is the strength and majesty of Canada.
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1 It must have the resources to do this.
2 114 Regional CBC stations must be
3 expected to provide broadcast time for regional
4 producers, and such programs should be geared to
5 achieve eventual national exposure provided by the
6 network.
7 115 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Hear! Hear!
8 116 MR. STEELE: Regulators must
9 recognize the diversity of Canada's regions and make
10 sure that regulations are sufficiently dynamic to suit
11 regional circumstance, as well as encourage provincial
12 and regional public broadcasters and partnerships for
13 public broadcasting.
14 117 Funding agencies must be expected to
15 participate in production of regional programming and
16 encouraged by knowing that there will be national
17 exposure for theses programs.
18 118 Finally, the CBC will have to remain
19 available to its viewers, no matter how its viewers get
20 their television signals.
21 119 Let me conclude.
22 120 Lately there has been much goodwill
23 in evidence regarding regional culture and values. In
24 an era consumed with issues of the global marketplace,
25 it is comforting to see that Canadians have had time to
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1 care for what is theirs alone.
2 121 Heritage Canada came here two weeks
3 ago looking for the pulse of Saskatchewan's cultural
4 institutions. I gave two messages to the politicians
5 on that panel: No. 1, that Section 3 of the Broadcast
6 Act stands sentinel for a promise which is not being
7 fulfilled; and no. 2, that to fulfil the dream of
8 hearing voices of Canadians from all regions on public
9 broadcasting will be to experience a new form of
10 culture in a modern democracy, a form a culture which
11 widely promotes the many and diverse values and
12 beliefs, achievements and visions of a nation and its
13 citizens.
14 122 How much is that kind of promotion of
15 self worth to the Canadian Federation at the turn of
16 the millennium? Messrs. Spry and Plant knew the answer
17 to that question in 1928.
18 123 I think it is time to revisit their
19 vision.
20 124 I thank you.
21 125 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Mr. Steele.
22 126 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
23 Steele.
24 1340
25 127 MR. LAHAY: Our next presenter is
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1 Lorne Cherneski.
2 128 I would reiterate to everybody to
3 please try to watch your ten-minute time limit.
4 129 Thank you.
5 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
6 130 MR. CHERNESKI: Madam Chairman,
7 Commissioners, my background is in education. I taught
8 school, firstly in this province, and subsequently
9 moved to Manitoba where I taught for part of the time
10 with the Department of Indian Affairs, the federal
11 department, and then finished off my career teaching at
12 a provincial school division in Swan River, Manitoba.
13 131 My views might be considered quite
14 parochial, maybe even radical, but I think I see some
15 of these ideas about public broadcasting from the point
16 of view of a retired teacher.
17 132 I have broken up my address into four
18 sections.
19 133 The first one: Reasons for
20 Sustaining the CBC.
21 134 My understanding is that the creation
22 of the CBC was a reaction to the widespread
23 availability of American broadcasts and a need to
24 expand Canadian broadcasting. A major goal in that
25 effort was to promote a Canadian identity.
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1 135 If that need was great over six
2 decades ago, I believe that need is even greater today.
3 There is a deluge of American culture and values
4 surging across the border into Canada through
5 television and other media. Because we have a smaller
6 population, and for other reasons, we as Canadians are
7 in danger of being overwhelmed by this cultural
8 onslaught. In order to maintain our identity we must
9 continue to produce, and even expand, production of
10 programs that reflect our Canadian reality.
11 136 If we flag in our determination to
12 maintain our Canadian identity, it will be only a
13 matter of time before the majority of our Canadian
14 population will identify with the cultural aspirations
15 of the United States. If this happens, there will be
16 little resistance to massive economic union, and
17 eventual political union, with the United States.
18 137 In the past, Canadians have been
19 warned of the possible loss of our sovereignty by
20 various academics and leaders. Former Prime Minister
21 Trudeau, in his book "With a Bang Not a Whimper",
22 acknowledged that Canada might not survive as a nation
23 if it could not solve the problems facing it.
24 138 Quite a few years ago, an American
25 government official -- I think it was John Foster
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1 Dollis(ph) -- said: There are two ways one country
2 could gain control of another country. The first way
3 was to use military force; the second way was to simply
4 gain control of the other country's economy.
5 139 I contend that the relationship
6 between Canada and the United States may very well be a
7 perfect example of the latter case. I believe that
8 losing our Canadian identity and adopting the cultural
9 values of the United States would be the first step in
10 the eventual dissolution of our nation.
11 140 When our nation was created in 1867,
12 it blocked the American aspirations for manifest
13 destiny in North America. It took tremendous resolve
14 and great expenditure of effort on the part of our
15 Fathers of Confederation to create the new political
16 entity called Canada. We, as Canadians, should remain
17 vigilant and guard against losing what our forefathers
18 achieved.
19 141 The second part is: Funding of the
20 CBC.
21 142 While I realize that these CRTC
22 hearings were not meant to be a forum for discussions
23 of CBC funding, it must be recognized that CBC cannot
24 properly carry out its mandate of promoting a Canadian
25 identity if sufficient funding is not available.
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1 143 My understanding is that at its
2 inception, the CBC was funded through a tax base.
3 However, as time progressed funding, for various
4 reasons, was diminished. This led to a reliance on
5 advertising to support some broadcasting. This
6 dependence on advertising has led to some problems,
7 such as promotion of undesirable programs.
8 144 Why should not the CBC obtain
9 adequate funding in order to promote its programs? I
10 do not buy the argument that Canada does not have the
11 resources to fund its broadcasting. When a necessity
12 is truly recognized and understood, the money for that
13 need can somehow be found. It is more a question of
14 perception and attitude rather than of means.
15 145 A couple of examples where Canada did
16 not hesitate to provide funding when the need arose
17 are:
18 146 (1) the completion of the
19 transcontinental Canadian Pacific Railway in 1885;
20 147 (2) the war efforts in both World
21 Wars.
22 148 Furthermore, Canada is not a poor
23 nation. It is an uncrowded nation, blessed with
24 immense amounts of natural resources that are the envy
25 of the world. If we, as a nation, are unable to profit
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1 from this abundance, perhaps it is due to the inability
2 of our leaders to manage our economy properly for the
3 benefit of all Canadians.
4 149 One possible reason for the drastic
5 cuts in CBC funding may be because of the criticism the
6 CBC has sometimes directed at the leaders of our
7 government.
8 150 In the March 8, 1999 Regina
9 Leader-Post article entitled "Time to Restore CBC's
10 Funding", Southam News columnist Lawrence Martin points
11 out --
12 151 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Cherneski,
13 could I ask you to summarize, please. We are running
14 consistently over time.
15 152 MR. CHERNESKI: I have two more
16 sections. I will try to finish this section quickly.
17 153 Lawrence Martin points out that Prime
18 Minister Chrétien has been hostile to the CBC for
19 several years. The reason appears to be that the CBC
20 reported, sometimes negatively, on the Prime Minister's
21 less than stellar performances. If this assessment is
22 correct, our Prime Minister should exhibit some
23 statesmanship and overlook any slights he has suffered,
24 real or imagined. Hopefully, then, the role of the CBC
25 would be maintained and with proper funding, perhaps
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1 even augmented.
2 154 I will skip one part and go on to the
3 last one.
4 155 Some Ideas on the Future Role of the
5 CBC in Broadcasting: There is a marked decline in the
6 moral standards that broadcasting used to adhere to.
7 Some programs produced by private broadcasters are
8 saturated with sexual references. Some might call it
9 smut.
10 156 Various talk shows seem to depend
11 upon such material in order to command viewership. The
12 CBC should maintain an adherence to the higher ethic,
13 both in radio and in television. I am also confident
14 that if a referendum were held on the matter, most
15 Canadians would be in favour.
16 157 The standard that the CBC should
17 observe in the production of their programs is
18 suitability for family viewing.
19 158 With the torrent of Americana coming
20 across the border through various media, Canadians are
21 being subjected to a portrayal of American history,
22 heroes and exploits. In time, in absence of strong
23 Canadian images, Canadians, especially the younger
24 generation, may come to accept American images as the
25 ones to identify with.
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1 159 Therefore, I believe it is vital that
2 the CBC produce programs for radio and television that
3 highlight events in Canadian history, the lives or our
4 heroes and the exploits of Canadians.
5 160 One excellent TV program, "The Life
6 and Times", has produced admirable biographies on
7 notable Canadians, such as Anne Murray, Farley Mowat,
8 Glenn Gould, W.O. Mitchell and others.
9 161 For future programs, I would like to
10 suggest that personalities and events could be drawn
11 from the distant past as well as the present. In the
12 former category, the fur trade, the French-English
13 conflict and Canada's role in both World Wars offer
14 many opportunities to inform and remind Canadians of
15 their background and identity.
16 162 Canada has an exciting history and
17 there is a gold mine of material waiting to be used.
18 163 My purpose in this presentation today
19 is to state my belief that the CBC should continue to
20 be an instrument to inform Canadians of their heritage
21 and to promote Canadian identity.
22 164 Thank you.
23 --- Applause / Applaudissements
24 165 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
25 Cherneski.
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1 166 Mr. Secretary.
2 1345
3 167 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
4 168 Hon. Bernard Wiens, please.
5 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
6 169 HON. BERNARD WIENS: Good afternoon,
7 Madam Chairperson and Commissioner Wylie. Welcome to
8 Saskatchewan.
9 170 I am Bernie Wiens, Minister of
10 Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs with
11 responsibility for telecommunications and broadcasting
12 policy in Saskatchewan.
13 171 With me today are my Deputy Minister
14 Brent Cotter and Senior Advisor on Telecommunications
15 and Broadcast Policy, Bob Hershe.
16 172 Before I begin, I want to thank the
17 Commission for holding this hearing in Regina. In
18 fact, I think it is especially apt that you are holding
19 this hearing here in Saskatchewan, a place that has
20 been called by people like Peter Gzowski the most
21 "Canadian" of provinces. So a good place to come.
22 173 And for people who don't want it to
23 come that far, I think there is recognition that
24 Saskatchewan is the home of much of the compassion for
25 which Canada is known and which makes Canada the best
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1 place in the world in which to live.
2 174 In the past the CBC has ensured that
3 the people, the events, and the traditions in every
4 part of Canada -- whether it is Saskatchewan or
5 Labrador or Montreal -- were known to every other part
6 of Canada. That is what has made the CBC a truly
7 national broadcaster.
8 175 To restore what has been lost and to
9 maintain what remains of this national relevance, the
10 CBC must listen to, must represent, and must broadcast
11 voices from every part of Canada, including those from
12 Saskatchewan.
13 176 Today, I will explore three general
14 themes that speak to the need for a strong regional
15 presence in the CBC:
16 177 First, how well is the CBC fulfilling
17 its role as the national public broadcaster serving the
18 public on a community, provincial and national level?
19 178 Second, what type of programming
20 should be provided by CBC radio and television, given
21 the growing number of alternative broadcasters?
22 179 And third, and most importantly, in
23 the new millennium how should the CBC begin to fulfil
24 its role?
25 180 I approach these themes not only as a
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1 Minister of the Crown, but as a farmer who has spent
2 many hours and years on the tractor listening to the
3 CBC as a welcome companion.
4 181 Before we begin to talk about the
5 future of the CBC, I would like to compliment the men
6 and women who work for the various divisions of this
7 broadcaster in Saskatchewan. Whether they work in
8 English or French, or in radio or television, I firmly
9 believe that they have demonstrated over and over their
10 commitment to this province, their creativity in
11 meeting new challenges, and their ability to maximize
12 the resources available to them when they have been
13 diminished.
14 182 While we may be advocating changes to
15 the CBC, we in no way wish to detract from the
16 professional contribution that these people continue to
17 make to our province.
18 183 Is the CBC performing its role as a
19 public broadcaster?
20 184 Any analysis of how we believe the
21 CBC is performing today as a public broadcaster
22 inevitably focuses on the recent strategies adopted by
23 the corporation to accommodate it $400 million in
24 budget reductions.
25 185 It is our belief that the directions
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1 taken by the CBC to cancel or sharply reduce almost all
2 provincial and local information and entertainment
3 programming for both radio and television service
4 negates, by definition, the CBC's role as a national
5 public broadcaster.
6 186 These strategies have failed to
7 consider the CBC's fundamental mandate to, and I quote:
8 "...reflect Canada and its
9 regions to national and regional
10 audiences, while serving the
11 special needs of those regions."
12 187 The challenge confronting the
13 broadcast sector, and the agencies that allocate public
14 funds to support this sector, is in ensuring that
15 Canadian content is reflective of all of Canada,
16 including the Prairies and Atlantic provinces, and that
17 it is created, distributed, and accessible by Canadians
18 in a variety of ways.
19 188 In order to accomplish this, a
20 healthy and thriving production community outside the
21 purview of the CBC's corporate environment is also
22 required. It is this larger community that will, in
23 turn, enable Canada to reap the benefits of cultural
24 and economic diversity and the jobs created by this
25 sector.
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1 189 The greatly reduced provincial and
2 community representation by CBC television impedes the
3 development of activities that contribute to the
4 creation of Canadian content, reduces the viability of
5 local production industries, and reduces the reliance
6 of this institution to regional audiences.
7 190 An "all Canadian" television schedule
8 has little meaning for our Canadian identity, or for
9 jobs in the regional film and video industry, if
10 various parts of Canada are systematically excluded
11 from contributing to that schedule.
12 191 While becoming "all Canadian", CBC
13 television has also become less relevant to the average
14 Canadian. Less than 10 per cent of Canadians now watch
15 CBC television and, as new television channels come on
16 stream, we have no doubt that this percentage will
17 continue to decline.
18 192 Canadian programming must represent
19 the views of all Canadians and must make a contribution
20 to their daily lives. If the information and
21 entertainment provided is not relevant to their daily
22 lives, viewers will turn to other broadcast sources,
23 inevitably turning away from the CBC.
24 193 We contend that by systematically
25 starving the local stations to feed the centre, CBC and
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1 SRC television have reduced their ability to fulfil
2 their obligations under the Broadcasting Act: namely,
3 to produce programs in the regions that reflect their
4 unique characters, while providing both a vehicle for
5 content delivery and a stimulus to local cultural
6 industries.
7 194 The shift to a centralized
8 infrastructure by CBC television has reduced contact
9 with the broader cultural base of Canada and its
10 remarkable diversity of people and perspectives.
11 195 In contrast, the CBC and SRC radio
12 networks have demonstrated that it is possible to
13 incorporate local participation within a national
14 context, and they have provided a vital communications
15 and cultural link between all Canadians. Radio,
16 despite its budget cuts -- which were taken contrary to
17 the recommendations made in the Juneau Report -- has
18 continued with a mix of national and local programming
19 on its daily schedule.
20 196 As examples, in English radio they
21 have raised awareness of our farming issues by holding
22 national programs like "Cross-Country Checkup" here in
23 Humboldt; they have maintained a strong First Nation's
24 presence with "Keewatin Country", and they have
25 supported Saskatchewan Arts through "Gallery".
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1 197 These programs have benefited
2 listeners in Saskatchewan, as well as those across
3 Canada.
4 198 Likewise, SRC radio has continued to
5 bring national francophone programming to Saskatchewan,
6 while covering local community events across Canada.
7 SRC's coverage of the changes in community governance
8 is only one example of how this division of the CBC
9 assists in maintaining the cultural identity of the
10 Fransaskois at a time when this support is critically
11 needed.
12 199 This mix has ensured that both
13 English and French language radio have maintained their
14 relevancy to the people of Saskatchewan, and to Canada
15 as a whole.
16 200 What type of programming should be
17 provided by CBC radio and television?
18 201 The relatively low production cost of
19 radio programming has allowed both CBC's and SRC's
20 radio networks to create a mix of relevant programming
21 to each region of Canada. In addition to the core
22 community, national and international news, these radio
23 networks have retained a unique blend of national and
24 local programs.
25 202 In Saskatchewan, for example, we can
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1 have noon hour radio programming which deals in large
2 part with relevant agricultural news, such as grain
3 prices, road conditions and changes that affect our
4 lives and the lives of farmers. Our sister province of
5 Alberta, while having the same base of national
6 programming, has local information which focuses more
7 on the needs of their individual residents, be they
8 sugar beet farmers or workers in the oil and gas
9 industry.
10 203 CBC and SRC's radio networks are good
11 examples of effective local participation within a
12 national context, and they have provided a vital
13 communications and cultural link between all Canadians.
14 We believe the public has clearly and strongly
15 expressed a desire to retain and strengthen the radio
16 networks.
17 204 We would ask the CRTC to do
18 everything in its power to ensure that this type of
19 radio programming, in English and French, is
20 strengthened. It cannot be allowed to be consumed by
21 the more glamorous and very much more expensive
22 television division.
23 205 In spite of the concerns I have
24 raised, we believe that CBC television continues to
25 have an important role to play in fostering Canada's
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1 national identity. Canadian content must permeate as
2 many broadcast venues as possible in order to reach as
3 many diverse audiences as possible.
4 206 This will require strong linkages in
5 collaboration with private broadcasters, educational
6 broadcasters and independent producers, as well as the
7 aggressive pursuit of air time on the growing number of
8 Canadian and foreign specialty channels.
9 207 Over the past five years, and most
10 recently with the approval of the Aboriginal Peoples
11 Television Network, the CRTC has granted licences to
12 numerous specialty channels with a Canadian focus. It
13 is our understanding that the CRTC has almost 50 more
14 television licence applications still before it.
15 208 Television, like new media such as
16 the Internet, has continued to fragment audiences as
17 programs cater to ever more specialized needs. One
18 might argue that rather than being a force for Canadian
19 unity, the growing multi-channel universe is in fact
20 reinforcing our differences.
21 209 Within this changing milieu, the CBC
22 television has adopted a very traditional commercial
23 model in attempting to compete with private networks
24 for ratings with sports and blockbuster-type dramatic
25 programming. While touting this "all Canadian"
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1 schedule, a large portion of its programming continues
2 to be very generic. Those programs, while produced
3 primarily by Canadians, continue to have a look and a
4 feel that is modelled on programming that is for sale
5 from the United States.
6 210 Given the ever growing number of
7 private broadcasters, all with Canadian content
8 requirements, the Province of Saskatchewan is beginning
9 to question the value of this approach by the CBC. The
10 consequence of CBC's current strategy is that it will
11 become lost in the myriad of channels on our dials.
12 211 Instead, we would agree with the
13 former Chair of the CBC, Patrick Watson, that the focus
14 of the CBC should be on creating television that
15 private networks cannot or will not support. The focus
16 of a public broadcaster should be on the public rather
17 than on private interests.
18 212 Private broadcasters have
19 demonstrated their desire to show Canadian sporting
20 events and to develop dramas. At the same time, they
21 have failed to produce the range of documentaries
22 needed to learn about the diversity and history of
23 Canada, to support the life-long learning needs of our
24 population, or to explore real health needs.
25 213 It is this type of programming,
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1 coupled with a continued strong emphasis on news and
2 current events from a Canadian perspective, to which
3 the CBC television should focus its resources. This
4 may not generate ratings, but it will certainly serve
5 the public, which pays for this service.
6 214 How should the CBC fulfil its role in
7 the new millennium?
8 215 Ensuring a Canadian presence,
9 particularly one that reflects all regions, is the
10 cornerstone of the Broadcasting Act and of Canadian
11 cultural policy.
12 216 To accomplish this, it is essential
13 to provide fair and equitable public funding to the
14 CBC's local production centres and to pursue the
15 development of a decentralized infrastructure. The
16 availability of Canadian content that reflects all of
17 Canada's cultures is inextricably linked to a healthy,
18 robust cultural and production industry across Canada
19 that encompasses film and video producers; artists,
20 writers and talent; new media software developers; and
21 the telecommunications and information technology
22 sectors developing new information services and
23 products for the information highway.
24 217 Public funds should stimulate
25 innovation in the broadcasting, new media, and
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1 telecommunications sectors. This activity must be
2 grounded in the regions with targeted funding
3 envelopes. This approach allows for the development of
4 local content that reflects regional culture and
5 supports local economic development.
6 218 It is with this context that
7 Saskatchewan makes the following recommendations:
8 219 First, as we noted previously, the
9 CBC and SRC's unique blend of radio programming should
10 be fostered and strengthened as much as possible. It
11 is these divisions of the CBC which epitomize Canadian
12 public broadcasting.
13 220 These networks have established a
14 service niche which no other private radio network has
15 duplicated. These networks truly have an all-Canadian
16 schedule which represents all areas of Canada.
17 Regardless of the new delivery technologies arising in
18 the new millennium, radio will continue to be a strong
19 force in the everyday lives of Canadians.
20 221 Again, we ask the CRTC to assist,
21 where possible, in ensuring that radio programming
22 resource allocations within the CBC remain sufficient
23 to ensure growth, sustainability, and continued local
24 representation.
25 222 Secondly, CBC television should focus
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1 its programming on the unique contribution that CBC
2 alone can offer to Canadian culture and identity: that
3 is, to inform and to enlighten. This can be
4 accomplished by providing Canadians with documentaries
5 and analysis of complex news and current affairs from a
6 Canadian perspective, recognizing that this perspective
7 cannot be generated wholly within one region or
8 province.
9 223 In addition, we would propose that
10 the CRTC establish terms of operation for the CBC which
11 would ensure a balanced and equitable approach to the
12 distribution of licences for individual productions.
13 The residents of provinces such as Saskatchewan should
14 not be excluded from providing their individual
15 perspectives because national funds are targeted on
16 blockbuster dramas.
17 224 In exploring alternative delivery
18 approaches, it is worthwhile to examine the success of
19 CBC's cable-distributed channels Newsworld and RDI, the
20 French language cable network equivalent. Despite
21 cable subscriber fees, both networks have continued to
22 retain a respectable audience share. The blend of
23 cost-effective programming that focuses on news
24 coverage, current affairs, and documentaries showcases
25 what CBC does best: producing programs that provide
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1 in-depth analysis of Canadian and global news and
2 issues from a distinctly Canadian perspective.
3 225 National and international news
4 coverage, current affairs and documentaries, in
5 combination with strong local and regional input and
6 co-production of other genres of programming, have the
7 potential to make the CBC and SRC networks more
8 relevant to Canadians than they are using their current
9 general programming approach.
10 226 In addition, we believe that the CBC
11 also has a role to play as a partner in the promotion
12 and distribution of Canadian films in a multi-channel
13 environment.
14 227 Eliminating some of the duplication
15 between the various divisions of CBC's television news
16 and current affairs operations would further enable
17 Newsworld and RDI to provide timely, effective and
18 efficient coverage of issues unparalleled by any other
19 broadcaster.
20 228 A new and highly focused mandate for
21 CBC and SRC television, attuned to current fiscal
22 realities and based on a Newsworld and RDI programming
23 direction, would provide all Canadians with a
24 value-added unique service that meets, in full measure,
25 the goals and aspirations of the Broadcasting Act.
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1 229 Thirdly, we would ask the CRTC to
2 encourage the CBC to expand its presence on the
3 Internet. Traditional forms of regulation, such as
4 content quotas, are ineffective in creating a Canadian
5 presence in areas of electronically delivered new media
6 such as the Internet.
7 230 As the Federal Government stated in
8 its recent strategy paper on electronic commerce:
9 "New media can be a new vehicle
10 to strengthen, not threaten,
11 Canada's culture, economy and
12 social institutions."
13 231 A Canadian presence on the Internet
14 can only be achieved through the existence of quality
15 information and "channels". We believe that the CBC's
16 current forays into Internet delivery have been very
17 successful. The ability to download video and audio
18 clips of the latest national and regional news,
19 whenever it is convenient for the consumer, is an
20 important service which can only grow and prosper.
21 232 In conclusion, I would like to
22 reiterate Saskatchewan's belief in the importance of
23 maintaining a strong Canadian public broadcaster.
24 While the role of the CBC will change over time as it
25 adapts to new consumer demands and to alternate
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1 delivery technologies, the CBC's fundamental mandate
2 to -- and I quote -- "reflect Canada and its regions to
3 national and regional audiences, while serving the
4 special needs of those regions", remains as important
5 today as when it was first drafted in the Broadcasting
6 Act.
7 233 Thank you. We look forward to
8 continuation of the discussions.
9 --- Applause / Applaudissements
10 234 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
11 Wiens.
12 235 Mr. Secretary.
13 1400
14 236 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
15 237 Steven Onda, please.
16 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
17 238 MR. ONDA: Thank you. Good
18 afternoon, Commissioners, staff, audience, Minister --
19 the whole gang.
20 239 I am not as formally prepared. I
21 thought that I may earn my place at this table because
22 I am an independent producer, and have been so for 15
23 years here in Saskatchewan. I am proud to say that our
24 company has produced material for not only
25 Saskatchewan, but for Canada and literally the world in
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1 that period of time.
2 240 All those stories, be it in
3 documentaries or dramas or light informational,
4 originated here in the far off and lost hinterland of
5 Saskatchewan. Yet, by our partnerships with our
6 broadcasters, notably the CBC, we are able to find
7 audiences beyond Saskatchewan for that material, and of
8 recent beyond Canada's borders.
9 241 I think you will hear over and over
10 again support for the CBC and for a national
11 broadcaster. More and more, our nation is defined by
12 how it perceives itself; and without CBC providing us
13 that opportunity of Canadian input, it is hard to
14 maintain the perception of a country. It is critical,
15 the CBC.
16 242 I also realize that the
17 recommendations that come forward often are loud to say
18 that we need more funding for the CBC, we need more
19 Canadian programming on CBC, we need to be more a
20 public broadcaster.
21 243 I support more of a hybrid approach,
22 because you cannot be asking for something and taking
23 away that very entity's capability at the same time. I
24 understand that half of the funding of the budget for
25 television at the CBC does still come from its revenues
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1 in selling ad inventory. This is a fact.
2 244 So if you want more Canadian
3 programming and you want it to be less a carrier of
4 commercial inventory advertising, the two just don't
5 add up.
6 245 I see more a model where a hybrid
7 example, if you may, is where we have blocks in the
8 schedule where there is no advertising.
9 246 For instance, one place that is very
10 under-served, I feel, is in the youth programming where
11 we are looking at the after school slot. Right now,
12 CBC limits itself because it wishes to sell advertising
13 in that area. It limits itself to its audience; it
14 does not program for under 12-year-old viewers.
15 247 Whereas in the evening slots, where
16 advertising around the supper hour and in the early
17 prime time can provide a real stream of revenue -- and
18 that's where we see the stream of revenue coming from
19 -- let's not take that away.
20 248 The regional presence has gone away,
21 most definitely, and the Commissioners themselves must
22 be more than aware of the changes at CBC.
23 249 What used to happen was that there
24 was little mix of programming slots. Again, air time I
25 see very much as inventory. Right now, we are back to
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1 24 hours of air time for CBC television English
2 services.
3 250 At one time, CBC was quite innovative
4 in finding more than 24 hours in the day. How they did
5 that was something called metronet or regional slots,
6 which allowed for regional programming to play to its
7 regional audience. Should that program be of strength
8 and interest to the nation, it would find its way into
9 the national schedule.
10 251 Those regional slots or metronet seem
11 to have almost totally disappeared, leaving us
12 half-hour slots after hockey games nowadays -- if there
13 is no overtime.
14 252 As a practical simple suggestion, we
15 would like to see CBC find its innovative way of
16 creating more than 24 hours of programming in a day.
17 253 The growth that has happened across
18 our nation -- I look at Saskatchewan as a microcosm.
19 Ten years ago we were not really providing a lot of
20 material on the independent sector. We were seeing
21 more material, relying more on the plant itself here,
22 notably in Regina.
23 254 What has happened now is that it is
24 much more sophisticated. As a public broadcaster, CBC
25 works closely with private entities and has become very
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1 innovative in that area. I salute them in their
2 willingness to co-exist, co-work and co-produce.
3 255 I think a lot of what I would like to
4 say has been said better by Mr. Steele, the Minister,
5 Mr. Benning, and other presenters, so I won't go into
6 general statements but wanted to pinpoint two or three
7 small ideas that I hope will begin to boil into that
8 soup of suggestions and responses that you are
9 receiving.
10 256 Unless the Commissioners have any
11 questions for me, I think I have completed.
12 257 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
13 Onda.
14 258 Mr. Secretary.
15 1408
16 259 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
17 260 Chris Axworthy, please.
18 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
19 261 MR. AXWORTHY: Madam Chair and
20 Commissioners, it is a pleasure for me to add the voice
21 of welcome from Saskatchewan to you, and to thank you
22 for coming to our community to hear our views.
23 262 I assure you I will stick within my
24 ten minutes, primarily for two reasons: One is that I
25 have one relatively simple and straightforward point to
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1 make; and the second is that I have a plane to catch at
2 3 o'clock.
3 263 My message, as I say, is relatively
4 straightforward but comes both as a Member of
5 Parliament for Saskatoon and a citizen in Saskatoon,
6 and primarily deals with the closure, now eight or nine
7 years ago, of both CBC TV local programming, but
8 primarily newscasting from Saskatoon.
9 264 At the time that I made a
10 presentation in Ottawa to your colleagues, the same
11 closure was taking place in a number of other
12 communities. I can remember at least Windsor, Calgary
13 and I think Victoria. Each person who spoke on that
14 question pointed out -- in fact, predicted -- what
15 happened: that not only would the citizens of, in my
16 case, Saskatoon be ill-served by such a move -- an
17 effort to provide newscasting for the whole province
18 solely from Regina -- but also audiences would decline
19 significantly.
20 265 Both of those things happened.
21 266 That decision was, as you will
22 recall, made ostensibly as a result of significant
23 budget cuts -- and CBC has undoubtedly suffered
24 severely from that -- but also more importantly made as
25 a result of decisions in Toronto by the CBC to
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1 implement its budget cuts at the expense of the
2 regions.
3 267 I don't think I need to go into very
4 much detail about what took place; but not only were
5 there important implications for employees who were
6 fired just before Christmas, there were other major
7 negative spinoffs in our community too. Business
8 suffered in various ways, but in particular there was a
9 significant negative impact on the cultural and social
10 life of our community.
11 268 And when I say "our community", I
12 mean not only Saskatoon, but northern and central
13 Saskatchewan also.
14 269 We, as many have said, live in a very
15 large country and all agree that CBC and SRC helps us
16 to find what it means to be a Canadian and helps us to
17 explain ourselves to other Canadians and explain other
18 Canadians to ourselves. We in the regions and in the
19 smaller communities must have the opportunity to
20 contribute our distinctive voice in that mix.
21 270 Minister Wiens mentioned the
22 significant contribution to much of what defines Canada
23 coming from Saskatchewan, and it is therefore somewhat
24 ironic that one of the regional cuts should be so
25 significant to our province and thereby, by
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1 implication, to the country.
2 271 The identity of our communities,
3 Saskatoon or Saskatchewan, or indeed any other
4 community for that matter, cannot, as we know, be
5 manufactured in Toronto and broadcast to the rest of
6 the nation. It must be woven from many threads, from
7 many centres reflecting the important and valuable
8 diversity in our country.
9 272 It is of course my view, not only as
10 a Member of Parliament from Saskatoon but as a resident
11 of Saskatoon, that there is more Saskatoon can do,
12 should CBC permit it to do so, in this regard.
13 273 Our artists, our community
14 organizations, our people have therefore had a greater
15 difficulty in having their voices heard, not only in
16 Saskatoon and northern and central Saskatchewan, but
17 also by the rest of the country, and also receiving
18 from the rest of the country news and views through the
19 sieve of Saskatoon presenters and reporters.
20 274 We have extremely well-qualified,
21 capable and creative personnel in Saskatoon who feed in
22 to the provincial and national network; but what we
23 don't have since those major cuts is a newscaster in
24 Saskatoon, an anchor in Saskatoon presenting those
25 views to Saskatoon people.
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1 275 It might come as a surprise to many,
2 but people in Saskatoon still talk of Kathy Little, who
3 was the anchor for many, many years in Saskatoon, and
4 talk of her in terms of a significant loss to our
5 community. It was more than just a newscast; it was a
6 reflection of our community to all of us and from all
7 of us.
8 276 I would also reiterate the points
9 made by all those who came before -- and I suspect by
10 all those who will come after -- as to the importance
11 of regional programming, not only newscasting. I just
12 wanted to focus on that particular case.
13 277 It is important to not only those of
14 us who live in Saskatchewan but to those of us who have
15 the opportunity to live in other parts of the country
16 that we reflect ourselves in the programming from
17 across the country.
18 278 I would finally point out, as I am
19 sure you are more than well aware, that the
20 Broadcasting Act really does place a responsibility on
21 the CRTC to reflect the importance of local television
22 to ensure that the CBC does in fact fulfil its
23 legislative requirements to draw programs from local,
24 regional, national and international sources, each with
25 an equal weight, and that there are distribution
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1 priorities for Canadian, and in particular local
2 Canadian, stations.
3 279 CBC, as you are well aware, is
4 charged with "reflecting Canada and its regions to
5 national and regional audiences, while serving the
6 special needs of those regions". And I quote there.
7 280 I will close there by asking you to
8 fulfil that responsibility with energy and vigour, as I
9 am sure you will, to ensure that Saskatoon is reflected
10 in the mix of CBC's activities in the way in which it
11 should and to recognize that the cuts made some eight
12 or nine years ago have had a significant negative
13 impact that should be rectified.
14 281 Thank you.
15 --- Applause / Applaudissements
16 282 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
17 Axworthy.
18 283 Mr. Secretary.
19 1418
20 284 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
21 285 Gary Hyland, please.
22 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
23 286 MR. HYLAND: Good afternoon, Madam
24 Chair, Commissioner.
25 287 As we strain your listening
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1 capacities this afternoon, you will be pleased to know
2 that I have been editing my speech and a page and a
3 half have gone so far. It might get more creative as
4 we go along.
5 288 It wasn't the best part; it was just
6 all the jokes. I will tell them to you after.
7 289 The Festival of Words was founded in
8 1997. It is a provincially-registered non-profit
9 volunteer organization that operated year-round to
10 celebrate the many imaginative uses of language and to
11 promote creative writing and life-long reading.
12 290 Our chief program is the three-day
13 summer festival in Moose Jaw that last year attracted
14 over 2,000 people from all around the province and
15 beyond. With 142 volunteers and a part-time staff of
16 three, we also operate ten other programs throughout
17 the year.
18 291 There are two unique things about our
19 program, and then I will get to how we connect with the
20 CBC.
21 292 We design programming for children
22 and teens, as well as adults, and we include not just
23 books but all aspects of creative word use in all forms
24 of cultural expression, such as story-telling, drama,
25 film, song writing and even media commentary.
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1 293 In our work, we are much indebted to
2 the CBC. At the same time, we are concerned about
3 developments at the corporation that we believe
4 adversely affect its delivery of these services.
5 294 There are four areas from which we
6 benefit from the CBC.
7 295 Our raison d'être: that use of
8 imaginative language is a major component of CBC
9 programming, programs such as the following -- and I
10 will mention just a few -- directly contribute to the
11 creation of an intelligent, well-informed audience
12 which we look to to draw the bulk of our audience.
13 296 On national radio shows such as "This
14 Morning", "The Arts Report", "Between the Covers"; on
15 national TV, "Rough Cuts" and "On the Arts"; on
16 regional radio, "Gallery" and "The Arts Update"; on
17 regional TV, "Arts Reel".
18 297 Without the support for Canadian, and
19 in particular Saskatchewan, writers and the
20 appreciative audiences that these programs and others
21 like them create, our task of drawing crowds of people
22 who relish the imaginative uses of language would be
23 far more difficult.
24 298 Most of these people are devoted
25 readers, writers and supporters of Canadian culture
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1 whose interest is sustained in good part by the CBC.
2 299 The CBC provides a means of reaching
3 the most crucial segment of our audience through its
4 coverage of events and stories related to us. For
5 instance, items on or about the Festival have appeared
6 on "Midday", "Rough Cuts", "Gallery", "The Arts Reel"
7 and "The Arts Report".
8 300 Private electronic media, for the
9 most part, do not consider cultural developments
10 inherently newsworthy.
11 301 In the span of time that we receive
12 the above coverage, only two local cable stations and
13 one local TV show on a private station have given the
14 Festival any attention. And that is not through lack
15 of trying on our part.
16 302 CBC news and arts staff have also
17 been supportive by soliciting stories from us and
18 reporting our media releases. Recently, we exchanged
19 established linkages between our web site and that of
20 the CBC Saskatchewan site.
21 303 Last year the CBC was an official
22 media sponsor of the Festival in return for access to
23 Festival programs and for taping and promotional
24 displays, the CBC provided us with coverage valued at
25 over $30,000; namely, the airing of 442 video promos.
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1 304 In addition, we received on-air
2 interviews and giveaways in both TV and radio. We are
3 very appreciative of this valuable assistance.
4 305 It should be noted that one private
5 broadcaster, CKCK-TV, has also been an active supporter
6 of the Festival, giving us thousands of dollars worth
7 of TV spots, an on-air interview and give-away segment.
8 306 As a non-profit agency struggling to
9 keep our books balanced, we are dependent upon donated
10 support of this kind.
11 307 Because the CBC provides numerous
12 forums for the constructive critical and creative uses
13 of language, and because many of its programs actually
14 highlight books and authors and Canadian films and
15 music that are mostly ignored by private broadcasters,
16 the CBC has contributed greatly to the careers of many
17 of feature presenters; the likes of Guy Vanderhaeghe,
18 Rudy Wiebe, Lorna Crozier, Brenda Baker, Gail Bowen,
19 Maggie Siggins, Louise Halfe, Sandra Birdsell, Rosemary
20 Sullivan and Ian Tyson.
21 308 The reputations of these artists have
22 been enhanced by CBC exposure, thus making them more
23 appealing to our patrons.
24 309 Most of the members, the team that
25 develops our program, are avid CBC listeners. Thus, it
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1 is not surprising that many of our ideas for guests
2 come from CBC broadcasts. In fact, some of our
3 presenters have been, at one time or another, CBC
4 staffers. Examples are Dennis Gruending, Rex Murphy
5 and Peter Gzowski.
6 310 We were particularly pleased to host
7 a one-hour segment of the last edition of "Morningside"
8 in Moose Jaw. This program set up a fundraiser for the
9 Festival and was instrumental in us getting launched on
10 a strong financial footing.
11 311 A major event at our 1999 Festival in
12 July will be the CBC radio program "Madly Off in All
13 Directions". Two segments of the show will be taped at
14 the Festival, providing us with yet another opportunity
15 to raise funds while offering a night of comedy by
16 nationally renowned comedians.
17 312 This event will be an important
18 fund-raiser for us, so we are profoundly grateful to
19 the show's producer Brian Hill and his staff for making
20 these arrangements.
21 313 We trust a relationship of
22 appreciation for, and dependence upon, the CBC is
23 clear. It is the vital nature of that relationship
24 that prompts us to express a few concerns.
25 314 Our chief concern that the Federal
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1 Government has not delivered on its clearly stated
2 promise to deliver stable long-term funding to the CBC.
3 Instead, as you will be hearing time and time again, I
4 am sure, there have been drastic reductions in the
5 allocations to the corporation that have led to
6 inevitable dilutions of program content and quality.
7 Bluntly stated, cuts to the CBC jeopardize one of the
8 few meaningful providers of Canadian culture and
9 creators of national awareness that this country has.
10 That misguided and occasionally peevish politicians
11 would risk this pivotal institution to save what amount
12 to pennies in a now plump public purse is aggravating.
13 315 The indefensible cuts of the last few
14 years should be restored in full.
15 316 In recent years regional programming
16 vital to the survival of artists in this part of Canada
17 has been severely cut back. Generally, we hear fewer
18 and skimpier newscasts, more repeated programs, more
19 filler wire service stories of questionable relevance.
20 Local program producers are struggling admirably with
21 crippling resources and staff cuts, but the results are
22 evident in fewer programs of diminished quality.
23 317 Centralizing program production in
24 Toronto saves money at the expense of creating
25 alienation in the regions. Yes, we need content that
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1 enhances Canadians' sense of national awareness and
2 identity, but we also need the living pulse of locally
3 produced programs to catch the eyes and ears of people
4 who are often immersed in their own regional concerns.
5 318 CBC once filled this balanced mandate
6 admirably. Why should we be talking nostalgically
7 about the golden age of public broadcasting in this
8 prosperous country.
9 319 Regional programming is the idea way
10 to nurture local writing, film-making and musical
11 talent that is shut out of the private sector.
12 Toronto-centred programming and repetitious logging
13 produce the same unfortunate effect. Program and staff
14 cuts have been applied more severely in the regions in
15 order, one presumes, to shore up central interests,
16 including the administrative staff.
17 320 We have a plethora of commercial and
18 special interest stations swamping us with formats
19 developed south of the border. We don't need more
20 lowest common denominator or mediocre broadcasting. We
21 need stimulating alternative programming, intelligent
22 talk, dramas, thought-provoking information, music that
23 is not mainstream, and a variety of viewpoints
24 incisively presented.
25 321 Few other large scale broadcasters
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1 exhibit anything approaching a commitment to Canadian
2 programming. If the CBC with its national networks
3 does not do so, the job will not be done adequately, if
4 at all.
5 322 The CBC should be commissioning works
6 by Canadians for Canadians, as well as setting up
7 partnerships and soliciting freelance input to create
8 an eclectic mix of broadcasting that speaks to and
9 nurtures the mind and soul of this nation 24 hours a
10 day, with the fewest possible repeat hours, and with
11 strong use of material that originates in the regions.
12 323 In conclusion, our interest is
13 self-serving to the extent that the Festival of Words
14 relies on the CBC in ways that we have outlined just
15 now. But we submit that in this respect, and in our
16 expression of concern, our interests are coincident
17 with those of the majority of Canadians, whether they
18 articulate their concerns or not: We want the CBC out
19 of the intensive care ward, restored to health, and
20 returned to the Canadian people.
21 324 Thank you for this opportunity.
22 --- Applause / Applaudissements
23 325 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
24 Hyland. And for your alliteration: plump public
25 purse.
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1 326 MR. HYLAND: I'm glad you got that
2 down.
3 327 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Secretary.
4 1430
5 328 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
6 329 Tony Richmond, please.
7 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
8 330 MR. RICHMOND: Madam Commissioner, I
9 am a humble listener from Prince Albert, professional
10 forester by occupation; 54 per cent of this province is
11 covered in tress. I just say that to the farmers
12 amongst you.
13 331 I am here for only one reason. I was
14 scared stiff when I heard about this session today,
15 that you would come here and there would be perhaps one
16 or two people. But I am totally delighted to see the
17 representation that we have ahead of us.
18 332 I can tell you that I can cut my
19 presentation short, because I am totally delighted at
20 the input from the Hon. Bernie Wiens, from Bruce Steele
21 beside me, and from Mr. Axworthy and others.
22 333 The stuff from the heart and the soul
23 I will leave behind.
24 334 I travel a great deal. The CBC feeds
25 my intellect. It is my soul, and it contributes to my
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1 self-awareness. Without the CBC this country would be
2 diminished significantly.
3 335 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Hear! Hear!
4 336 MR. RICHMOND: Having said that, I am
5 trying to put myself now in your shoes. What the heck
6 do we do with diminishing dollars, signals coming in
7 from outer space? How do we maintain this integrity
8 without being totally washed away by a thousand
9 channels?
10 337 This is just me. I ride around in my
11 truck. I do 50,000 clicks a year. Once I got trapped
12 in to coming here today, I thought: "What are we going
13 to do about the future?"
14 338 So we have to embrace the future,
15 Madam Commissioner; we can't be scared. The future is
16 not necessarily bringing the past forward. It is maybe
17 just losing the past and bringing technology into
18 place. The wonderful, wonderful people at CBC that
19 keep me going sometimes when I am up to my eyeballs in
20 snow or mud or ice, digging out the truck, and the
21 unions that go along with these wonderful people; the
22 Sheila Coles(ph), everybody at CBC Regina. Tremendous
23 people.
24 339 But sometimes CBC Regina doesn't
25 understand that the north perhaps starts at La Ronge
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1 and not at the Legislature here.
2 340 Regionally, we have to stay with
3 quality production. That's as I see it, riding around
4 in my pick-up up north. We have to stay with quality
5 production. There might be less of it, but what we do
6 have is quality.
7 341 We have to emphasize the regional
8 highlights. We have had lots of really first-class
9 commentary on that today.
10 342 Let's try to do something more for
11 our young people. Count the number of white and grey
12 heads in this audience today.
13 343 We have to continue to promote
14 interaction through the Internet and phone-in shows,
15 with the CBC brass, so that we keep them honest.
16 344 I was coming out of Cumberland House,
17 and Perrin Beatty and Alex Frame(ph), and a whole bunch
18 was on the CBC radio "Cross Country Checkup". It
19 wasn't "Cross Country Checkup" that day.
20 345 I was coming out of Cumberland House,
21 soaked to the skin. It was great. There was one thing
22 they never brought up. There was all sorts of bitching
23 and complaining about the amount of money going into
24 the CBC, but no one brought up that frightful vision of
25 someone fooling around with the Broadcasting Act and
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1 fooling around with the President of the CBC's right to
2 govern, and that sort of thing. No one brought that
3 up.
4 346 Madam Commissioner, I think those of
5 us at the bottom end of the food chain require that the
6 CRTC prevent let's say hostile takeovers.
7 347 I think the Internet is a growing
8 entity. It is a tremendous feedback tool. Don't worry
9 about competition from across the borders. Don't put
10 up artificial barriers to external signals. CBC
11 programming and other Canadian programming will hold
12 its own if we maintain excellence.
13 348 Go after the intellect. Challenge
14 the listener and the looker. Your audience will become
15 global. Let's not look inwards; let's look outwards,
16 folks. We export everything else. We can export our
17 culture. Our culture can become missiles, and we will
18 meet the other incoming missiles and knock them out of
19 the sky. In the CBC and in other radio and television
20 entities across this nation we have the talent, and we
21 have the capacity.
22 349 I have been in this country. This is
23 my 50th year, so I have some right to say that.
24 350 Don't shut down the foreign bureaus.
25 Tell that to the CBC brass. The excellence from
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1 foreign journalists has to be maintained. We can't cut
2 those people down.
3 351 We export guns; we export butter.
4 What else are we going to export here? Oh yes,
5 peacekeepers.
6 352 If we do that, we have to have a
7 journalistic mechanism overseas that can feed back to
8 us the results of those kind of policies.
9 353 Don't touch CBC Regina. Wonderful
10 people. Sheila Coles(ph) keeps me going in the most
11 incredible of times; and the rest of the crew, the rest
12 of the buddies in CBC Regina. Try and get the money
13 back to open up Saskatoon again.
14 354 Tom Roberts was missing today. That
15 guy goes fishing or canoeing or skiing, or something.
16 But he was missing today. So find him, CBC Regina.
17 355 I have to skip to my version of the
18 options. And I will talk TV, because I think Sheila
19 Copps understands that CBC radio is so precious she
20 wouldn't touch it.
21 356 Option one is a fully serviced entity
22 competing head-on with private broadcasters. It is
23 sort of what is going on today but with diminished
24 money. We raise some income from selling the series
25 internationally, and with more regional programming, to
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1 pay for this you have to jack up the advertising.
2 357 That is option one.
3 358 The option two is the PBS model, and
4 I just couldn't go through one of those fund-raising
5 efforts. Could you? I could do it once, but that
6 would be it.
7 359 Option Three: Keep the CBC Newsworld
8 as the engine of the public system. That's what you
9 do: keep CBC Newsworld as the engine of the public
10 system and then create, promote, steer and fund on a
11 cost-recovery basis a contract system; contract out the
12 making and distribution of drama, documentary,
13 historical series and make sure we get enough coming
14 into Saskatchewan, for Saskatchewan by Saskatchewan
15 people.
16 360 All matters pertinent to Canadian
17 cultural environment. Then have broadcast rights sold
18 to those existing or expanding private channels.
19 Somebody mentioned partnerships. Partnerships is the
20 way of the future, anyway, in so much of this stuff.
21 We can't afford the old icons, even though we love
22 them.
23 361 And add a regional entity to
24 Newsworld. Let's have our own Regina CBC Newsworld
25 once in a while.
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1 362 Option 3B: I call this Option 3B,
2 down the road -- because I don't understand how to do
3 it, but people like yourselves, at the province, do.
4 363 Provide for option to deliver the
5 output generated in option 3 through high-speed
6 Internet, or something like that. I can sit home. I
7 have a password. And this contracted system that
8 creates documentaries and historical series, CBC stuff,
9 beautiful CBC stuff -- "Black Harbour"; what was that
10 sixty thing, the Indian program --
11 364 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: "North of 60".
12 365 MR. RICHMOND: "North of 60". Very,
13 very precious. We should have a heck of a lot more of
14 those than we have today.
15 366 The Sunday night programming -- you
16 know, the ones, Madam Commissioner. You watch CBC, I
17 hope.
18 367 There are contract shops coming into
19 the picture now, doing these outstanding stuff. Who is
20 going to tune into something else when you have this to
21 tune into? But do it through partnerships with local
22 entities, regional entities and national entities.
23 368 We sit at home, browse the
24 distributor's web site, download our choices, store
25 this in the TV computer, then watch it at our leisure.
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1 We would pay a subscription fee to purchase a password
2 to obtain the material for viewing. So there is an
3 opportunity for some more cash coming into the system.
4 369 But we do it through satellite. We
5 don't have to go the old route.
6 370 And I am finished, because you are in
7 a hurry.
8 --- Applause / Applaudissements
9 371 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
10 Richmond.
11 372 Mr. Secretary.
12 1437
13 373 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
14 374 Brian Docjack, please.
15 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
16 375 MR. DOCJACK: Madam Chairman,
17 Commissioners, my name is Brian Docjack. I represent
18 the Regional Musicians Association, Local 446 of the
19 American Federation of Musicians of the United States
20 and Canada.
21 376 I stop at this point and stress "and
22 Canada", because without our organization, our Canadian
23 operation runs on its own. We didn't have to separate
24 like the Canadian auto workers did.
25 377 Saskatchewan, unfortunately, is
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1 considered to be a part of a larger region as far as
2 CBC is concerned, at least for budgeting purposes. So
3 consequently the allocations coming our way seem to be
4 getting smaller and smaller.
5 378 I think I can speak for my colleagues
6 in Saskatoon as well -- I think they would allow it
7 this time, anyway -- in saying that over the years we
8 have managed to develop an excellent rapport with the
9 staff at the Regina Broadcast Centre. It goes without
10 saying that they have done an absolutely excellent job
11 of getting the most out of what is a rather small
12 musical budget -- not just once, but time after time.
13 379 Our member musicians have been
14 involved with the corporation on numerous projects,
15 both those developed by the CBC itself, and also those
16 in which CBC has been a co-producer with an independent
17 producer as well.
18 380 For our members, this has been more
19 than just another chance to pick up a few dollars --
20 although that has been welcome. It is also very safe
21 for me to say that had it not been for CBC's new talent
22 development programs, our Saskatchewan members may
23 never have had the opportunity to become involved in
24 this area of the electronics field.
25 381 It has been CBC that has given some
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1 of our members a chance to hone their musical writing
2 and arranging skills, in addition to their performance
3 skills. Some of those skills are now being utilized by
4 private producers in both the TV and film fields.
5 382 The Regina Broadcast Centre has done
6 a commendable job in promoting Saskatchewan artists and
7 airing their recordings. However, we have very grave
8 concerns about the future of the corporation. Recent
9 years have seen, to say the very least, a tremendous
10 erosion of budgets and staffing, a trend that we feel
11 must be stopped and reversed. I can't say that enough.
12 383 Although all sorts of arguments may
13 be made for the CBC becoming self-sustaining, we feel
14 that because of the very unique role that the
15 corporation plays as Canada's public broadcaster, and
16 should continue to fulfil within our cultural mosaic,
17 this is something that cannot be judged strictly by
18 bottom line.
19 384 Yes, there have been spurts of
20 activity by commercial broadcasters from time to time
21 in the area of musical production, but history shows us
22 that these efforts are never sustained; they are gone
23 quickly. And all too often the other networks revert
24 to packaged product, often from the States; or, as my
25 teenage son often loves to say, "from the Toronto
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1 sports network".
2 385 Where can listeners go to hear the
3 Canadian symphony orchestra? Where can they go to
4 listen to the broad range of talents that are displayed
5 at the jazz festivals, the folk festivals in this
6 country? Where can a viewer see a Canadian entertainer
7 who has perhaps not quite reached what is considered to
8 be international stardom, or to see drama that is
9 uniquely Canadian?
10 386 For that matter, how often might one
11 watch a Canadian artist who has reached the top of the
12 ladder in an American special? Very few times.
13 387 However, it is becoming more and more
14 apparent in the field that I am involved in that
15 Canadians don't have to lower their heads to anybody.
16 Watch the awards shows on the other channels and watch
17 the Canadian artists walk off with top prizes. We have
18 the talent.
19 388 Unfortunately, the answer to my
20 earlier questions is: Only on CBC.
21 389 If the erosion of staffing and
22 funding continues, even that is going to be gone.
23 390 CBC contributes very significantly to
24 the cultural fabric of our country, and culture is
25 something that you cannot easily place a value on.
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1 Yet, it defines us as a nation.
2 391 We must ensure that CBC remains
3 available to Canadians and is assured sufficient
4 funding to carry out its original mandate of being
5 Canada's national broadcaster. There is a fantastic
6 talent pool available in all regions of this country.
7 I have had the opportunity to listen to many of them
8 and we are seeing more and more of them reach
9 international heights.
10 392 But a comment I have heard all too
11 often and one that never fails to raise my temperature
12 is: "Canadian? Can't be. It's too good."
13 393 I am tired of that. We have
14 wonderful artists in the musical field, in the dramatic
15 fields and in writing. We don't have to lower our
16 heads in front of anybody. We should be proud of what
17 we can produce.
18 394 Locally, we had a show that was done
19 nationally for a while called "Country West". In
20 talking to my colleagues across the country when it was
21 cancelled, they were amazed that they would cancel a
22 show of that quality. Everyone expressed the same
23 thing. The talent in Saskatchewan is fantastic. But
24 it is not just Saskatchewan; it is all of Canada.
25 395 I will close by saying that there are
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1 some things that are far, far too important to be
2 judged solely on the basis of a balance sheet. We
3 support the mandate of the CBC. I thank the Commission
4 for affording me this opportunity.
5 --- Applause / Applaudissements
6 396 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
7 Dojack -- and I know that you are not Mr. Cotter.
8 1445
9 397 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
10 398 Finally, Mr. Victor Lau, of the first
11 ten people we have had today.
12 399 Mr. Lau.
13 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
14 400 MR. LAU: Thank you. Good afternoon
15 to everyone. My name is Victor Lau. I am
16 Vice-President of the Regina District Labour Council.
17 I am pleased to be here on behalf of the 18,000
18 unionized of the Regina District Labour Council, and we
19 are pleased to present our brief -- which is entitled
20 "Rejuvenating the CBC" -- which speaks in favour of
21 public broadcasting and in support of a strong CBC.
22 401 As well, we hope to bring some of our
23 suggestions here that will rejuvenate the CBC, one
24 which will be fully ready for the challenges in the new
25 millennium.
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1 402 In terms of privatization, first and
2 foremost, we would like to make it clear that the CBC
3 should never be privatized. We believe that, having
4 read some material from a group called Friends of
5 Canadian Broadcasting, certain CBC board members are
6 "hatching plans to sell the Crown Jewels -- CBC's
7 transmitters -- in some of Canada's biggest cities to
8 private interests in the coming months".
9 403 How is this consistent with providing
10 public broadcasting or supporting the CBC? It just
11 plain is not. We see this opportunistic privatization
12 plan as a way of further dismantling the CBC and
13 weakening it to a point of irrelevance.
14 404 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Hear! hear!
15 405 MR. LAU: As George Richards from
16 Castlegar, B.C., states:
17 "Regional alienations can be
18 strong in Canada. The CBC was
19 earlier mandated to counter
20 these forces, to instill a love
21 for a Canadian commonwealth.
22 This mandate should be
23 re-stated, emphasized and
24 funded."
25 406 We ask that the CRTC investigate any
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1 possible plans of privatization at the CBC and put an
2 immediate halt to any such plans.
3 407 Advertising: We at the Regional
4 District Labour Council find consumerism to be a poison
5 in our mental environment. It is hard to escape the
6 constant bombardment of advertising whenever one tries
7 to do so. It is so prevalent in all of our major
8 communication mediums: print, TV, radio. The whole
9 idea of allowing CBC radio's listening audience to be
10 subjected to the advertising industry's commercials
11 makes my stomach turn. It is bad enough that even the
12 CBC television news is constantly being interrupted to
13 sell various drugs, dog foods, cars, et cetera.
14 408 We ask that the CRTC investigate that
15 alternative means to keeping the CBC productions as
16 ad-free as possible, even if it means further public
17 subsidy. We do not support the commercialization of
18 the CBC.
19 --- Applause / Applaudissements
20 409 MR. LAU: Investing in and Renewing
21 the CBC: Similar to the massive federal cuts in
22 transfer payments to provincial health care over the
23 past years, the CBC has also enjoyed such undeserved
24 cuts. In addition to slashed funding, the CBC also
25 seems to be receiving less and less public money.
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1 410 An example is the $200 million that
2 was collected from taxpayers and cable subscribers into
3 the Canadian Television Fund. After intensive lobbying
4 from private interests, Mr. Chrétien's government
5 reversed the decision made to put 50 per cent of this
6 amount into Canadian productions from the CBC and
7 instead decided to have 67 per cent of this public
8 money reallocated into the private broadcasters' hands.
9 411 We think it is time the Federal
10 Government renewed the CBC, much like health care, and
11 put back what funding they took out.
12 412 We ask that the CRTC demand the
13 Federal Government re-institute appropriate public
14 funding for the CBC. This could be done with a small
15 tax on all private broadcasts.
16 413 Without a strong CBC, will there be a
17 strong national identity?
18 "As someone who grew up in
19 Vancouver with CBC radio and
20 television in the 40s and 50s,
21 it was very clear to me that I
22 was Canadian and not American.
23 I wonder if it will be so easy
24 for my grandchildren?"
25 414 That is from Anne Ironside, Bowen
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1 Island, B.C.
2 415 As for the arguments against further
3 or increased public funding for the CBC due to the fear
4 of "wasting the money", we would like to quote the CRTC
5 itself in its 1993 renewal of the CBC's four radio
6 networks:
7 "The Commission considers that
8 the Corporation, in a time of
9 financial restraint and
10 uncertainty, should be commended
11 for the general excellent of its
12 radio programming, which stands
13 as a model for broadcasters in
14 Canada, and around the world."
15 416 Ownership: The CBC is a public
16 broadcaster. Its mandate is to serve the public
17 interest, not the corporate. The current labour strife
18 between the Communication, Energy and paperworkers
19 (CEP) union and the Media Guild versus the CBC Board of
20 Directors does not need to be occurring. The whole
21 idea of public broadcasting is to serve a need, not to
22 expand corporate greed.
23 417 To again quote the CRTC on its
24 renewal of the English Television Network's licence in
25 1994:
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1 "The need may be greater than
2 ever for an outlet to express
3 truly Canadian stories, ideas
4 and values amid these foreign
5 voices. A strong Canadian
6 national public broadcaster is
7 indispensable in this context."
8 418 If the CBC is to be "our" public
9 broadcaster, then it must do two things: One, it must
10 stop alienating its own workers through continued
11 harassment, layoffs, and threats to job security.
12 Workers must have a sense of ownership in their jobs in
13 order to skilfully and willingly dedicate the needed
14 time to create excellence and in general "do a good
15 job".
16 419 Secondly, the CBC must appeal to
17 audiences through entertaining, lively and dynamic
18 programming:
19 "What Canadians require and
20 expect of their CBC, more than
21 of any other Canadian
22 broadcaster, is that it provides
23 the means for them to talk to
24 one another about things
25 Canadian, both formally and
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1 informally, that it be a place
2 where they can meet, a place
3 they can feel at home."
4 420 That again is the CRTC on renewing
5 the English Television Network's licence in 1994.
6 421 We ask that the CRTC require both
7 these conditions from the CBC: the sense of worker
8 ownership and citizen ownership.
9 422 The following suggestions are fully
10 endorsed by the Regina District Labour Council, but we
11 cannot take credit for their creation.
12 423 We agree with the importance of
13 maintaining local and regional programming on CBC radio
14 and television. Not only does this maintain stable,
15 well-paid jobs in each province, but in addition it
16 allows some local community coverage that can be shared
17 with other communities elsewhere in Canada.
18 424 An example of how the cuts have
19 affected provincial CBC television is the supper hour
20 news broadcast here in this province. Because of less
21 staff or the staff shortages, there is, according to my
22 friend, now more digitalized cartoon coverups to make
23 up for the time.
24 425 We agree that the CBC should be
25 properly funded and not lose out funding to private
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1 broadcasters. The CRTC should explain to the
2 government that CBC needs more funds in order to fulfil
3 its mandate.
4 426 We also agree that the CBC board
5 should not be able to centralize radio and television
6 news under the control of an Ottawa-based
7 vice-president. This centralization would reduce the
8 number of independent news sources in Canada and place
9 both radio and TV news under the nose of government.
10 We do not want government propaganda or censorship.
11 427 The CRTC should ensure the
12 independence of CBC's radio and television news
13 services from each other, as well as from any
14 governmental interference.
15 428 An example of undue government
16 interference is the tampering of CBC's APEC
17 Summit/Trial coverage. Prime Minister Chrétien's
18 threats from his office against Mr. Terry Milewsky's
19 "supposed" bias due to comments of labelling the
20 Federal Government as "the forces of darkness" led to
21 his immediate suspension.
22 429 We condemn this act as journalistic
23 terrorism. How can a reporter's private opinions and
24 thoughts, especially via e-mail, be considered bias,
25 but other reporters' open public statements on air stir
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1 not a whisper?
2 430 An example that I recently saw in the
3 past year was the election in South Korea of a Social
4 Democratic government, and the reporting by the
5 reporter was talking about how the people did not agree
6 with the past government because they were willing to
7 implement the International Monetary Fund's reforms and
8 that now this new government was elected on a mandate
9 to change that.
10 431 However, the reporter ended up saying
11 that the new government has no choice but to implement
12 IMF reforms.
13 432 We don't see that as being impartial.
14 I think that is a little leading.
15 433 Another example would be the constant
16 barrage by a political commentator -- I believe his
17 name is Jason Moskovitz -- that the people were
18 concerned about constitutional changes; not
19 unemployment, not the environment during the last
20 federal election. We were bombarded constantly that it
21 was constitutional amendments, constitutional wrangling
22 that people were concerned about and that that is what
23 the government should be concerned about.
24 434 Is this a conspiracy or is this a
25 reality perpetuated by the powers that be -- in other
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1 words, big business?
2 435 CBC must always be seen to be fair,
3 accountable and serving the public interest above all.
4 We see the CBC as a public trust for all Canadians.
5 436 To conclude, we at the RDLC -- the
6 Regina District Labour Council -- thank you again for
7 this opportunity to present and hope that public
8 participation can be done on a more frequent basis,
9 perhaps even annually, and allow more average citizens
10 their say, not just the paid lobbyists who lobby for
11 the private corporate interests.
12 437 Thank you.
13 --- Applause / Applaudissements
14 438 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Lau.
15 439 I propose that we take a short break
16 and come back in ten minutes, which by my watch will be
17 five after three.
18 --- Recess at 1455 / Suspension à 1455
19 --- Upon resuming at 1510 / Reprise à 1510
20 440 THE CHAIRPERSON: When we reconvene,
21 the Secretary will be calling up the next ten people.
22 However, Mr. Steele would like to have the mic for two
23 and a half seconds to clarify a matter.
24 441 MR. STEELE: I would like to take a
25 moment to emphasize, first of all, that I stated a
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1 rumour that I just recently heard that Radio Three of
2 the CBC will be developed on the backs of cuts to noon
3 and afternoon regional services.
4 442 I have been assured that this is a
5 complete rumour, not true; that it is new money. I
6 have offered to remove that statement, if I can, from
7 the record.
8 443 I would wonder why new money wouldn't
9 go to prop up the old service. But excuse me, my
10 seconds are up.
11 444 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
12 Steele.
13 445 Mr. Secretary.
14 446 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
15 447 I would like to call the next ten
16 participants, please, and I would remind you to try to
17 stick to the ten-minute limit. It will help us later
18 on.
19 448 I would like to insert the name of
20 Barb Stange, please; Jennifer Stowell; Elaine Driver;
21 Al Taylor; Lee Boyko; Jonathan Bingham; Ida Grosse;
22 Brian Cousins; Norm Bray; and Marcel Michaud.
23 449 Please come forward to the table.
24 450 Barb Stange, when you are ready,
25 please proceed.
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1 PRESENTATION /PRÉSENTATION
2 451 MS STANGE: Thank you very much for
3 enabling me to speak earlier.
4 452 My name is Barbara Stange, and I am
5 here representing myself. I perhaps should say that I
6 am a retired professor at the University of Regina, but
7 that is not relevant to my presentation.
8 453 I almost did not come. Why should
9 you want to hear from me? I am a 75-year old woman of
10 negligible value in marketing terms.
11 454 Marketing, the bottom line, seems to
12 have become the determining force in Canada's public
13 policy decision. Marketing analysis indicates that you
14 already have my support. Marketing analysis says what
15 CBC needs are audiences for radio and television the
16 ages of my children and grandchildren.
17 455 Broadcasters have to be cool, sharp,
18 up-to-date in the way they talk, what they say and how
19 they look. Marketing says that above all else, numbers
20 count. Marketing says the way to go is to chuck out
21 what has worked to the benefit of all Canadians. Let
22 the market call the shots -- and, incidentally, silence
23 thoughtful, reflective programming and provide what
24 pleases the young of the moment.
25 456 I will just mention that I have 14
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1 grandchildren, and I want to exclude them from that
2 category. I know they appreciate good programming, and
3 I think lots of young people do. If we used our smarts
4 better, we could get programming on radio and
5 television that would attract youth who are very
6 thoughtful and interested in ideas.
7 457 The next step is to starve the CBC.
8 Make promises with on intention of fulfilling them.
9 Make it impossible for them to operate without
10 advertising and then criticize the CBC for unfairly
11 dipping into the advertising pool in competition with
12 the private radio and TV. Cut funds so low that they
13 can't produce sufficiently high quality programs and
14 then gloat: "Boy! CBC's voice is not nearly so
15 effective as it used to be in helping people know what
16 is happening and in thinking critically (that is, with
17 knowledge and reflection) about government and big
18 business."
19 458 The powers that be chortle: "We've
20 pulled their teeth. They are running scared and are
21 beginning to follow our lead. Let's cut some more,
22 centralize operations in Montreal and Toronto where
23 people understand where we are coming from and where we
24 can influence who they hire and stifle the voices from
25 the underdeveloped, remote areas of Canada."
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1 459 All this is being done so there will
2 be few effective voices left to object to the complete
3 dismantling of CBC radio and television.
4 460 Why would anyone, especially you,
5 listen to my voice? I can't answer that except to say
6 that I care very deeply about CBC radio and television.
7 As a retired person, widowed less than two years ago, I
8 depend upon the radio. I wake up with "The Morning
9 Show", list to classical music during the day, try not
10 to miss "Ideas", and go to sleep with "Between the
11 Covers".
12 461 If I wake during the night -- and I
13 often do now -- I am fascinated by the broadcasts from
14 countries around the world.
15 462 I am going to pause here.
16 463 I asked to be able to present a
17 little early, because a friend of mine needs some help.
18 She is wheelchair-bound and fairly frail. She is the
19 one who mentioned to me that the program "Through the
20 Night" was a wonderful thing.
21 464 She grew up in Vienna, and she just
22 loves that she hears broadcasts from Europe and from
23 other places. She said, when I told her what I was
24 doing this afternoon: "Please stress how that is very,
25 very important."
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1 465 That is Dr. Elizabeth Brandt, if you
2 want to use her name.
3 466 I am fascinated by those broadcasts.
4 I am a busy person and read a lot too, but the radio is
5 part of the rhythm and substance of my life. I watch
6 Newsworld with interest, but now prefer A&E and PBS
7 from Detroit to the sorts of entertainment that are
8 generally available on the basic CBC channel. I miss
9 the fun of many of the shows that we used to enjoy so
10 much.
11 467 I came to Canada with my husband and
12 three of my five children in 1972. By 1980 we were all
13 Canadian citizens. People often ask me why I stay now
14 that I am a widow and my children are grown. I stay
15 because I love this country and feel it is home.
16 468 Peter Gzowski and others helped me
17 understand what it means to be a Canadian and helped me
18 learn about Canadian politics, literature and music.
19 When I am in the United States with family and friends,
20 I enjoy the visit but I know now that I belong here.
21 469 I weep inside as I see the dear
22 things I have come to love in Canada being devalued and
23 made ineffective. I know there are others who feel the
24 way I do.
25 470 On March 9th, in the Leader Post,
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1 Lawrence Martin quoted Sheila Copps as saying:
2 "One of the benefits of having a
3 public broadcaster like CBC is
4 that it can cater to a higher
5 ethic. It need not be driven by
6 the lowest common denominator,
7 which is what private television
8 ratings are all about."
9 471 In the same paper the next day,
10 Martin writes about:
11 "...a dearth of inspirational
12 leaders in Canada as well as
13 elsewhere."
14 472 And that:
15 "There is no one to reach for
16 something higher than the
17 dominant consensus of the day
18 which, as George Soros calls it,
19 is market fundamentalism."
20 473 l feel the voices of humane, liberal,
21 literate thinkers must be heard. Their voices provide
22 the thoughtfulness and inspiration which holds us
23 together as a functioning society. What do we have
24 left if we silence them?
25 474 My voice is a small one. All I can
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1 do is let it be heard and hope against hope others will
2 agree that this proposed deconstruction is an
3 abomination.
4 475 I learned yesterday that I have a
5 whopping tax bill. I would pay even more if I thought
6 it would have any effect on your decisions.
7 476 Please work toward strengthening CBC
8 radio and television. Let us hear many Canadian
9 voices. So many of the other presenters have said
10 that. Let us celebrate all we have done together and
11 realize the wonderful possibilities that exist for this
12 very special country of ours.
13 477 Thank you.
14 --- Applause / Applaudissements
15 478 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mrs.
16 Stange.
17 479 Mr. Secretary.
18 1523
19 480 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
20 481 Jennifer Stowell, please.
21 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
22 482 MS STOWELL: Hi, I am Jennifer
23 Stowell. I drove up from Saskatoon because I love the
24 CBC, not because I am with any organization. There
25 have been so many great things said today and a lot of
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1 really helpful criticism. I had written out quite a
2 few things I wanted to cover, and they have mostly been
3 covered really eloquently. So I think I am mostly
4 going to talk about what I like about the CBC and what
5 I would like to see continue.
6 483 I love the CBC because it speaks to
7 my heart and to my soul and mostly to my mind. It is
8 an overused cliche, but to me it really does tie the
9 country together.
10 484 Without it, the only east coast
11 culture I would get from private commercial stations
12 would be Great Big C from Quebec, Celine Dion; and from
13 the rest of the country almost nothing.
14 485 The CBC means a lot because it brings
15 the country to me and therefore gives me a greater
16 understanding of my part in it.
17 486 For the next millennium, I would just
18 like to see the CBC continue to work on quality
19 programming that it has always given me. And, of
20 course, I wish they had more money.
21 487 Regionally and nationally: I guess
22 regionally I wish there was more regional programming
23 on television. Obviously, I think there is enough on
24 the radio with "Morning Edition", "Afternoon Edition",
25 "The Noon Call-in". I love hearing all the voices from
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1 Saskatchewan.
2 488 Television seems like it has got a
3 lot of bashing today. I actually really love the
4 programming on CBC TV. To me, it is what I can't get
5 on commercial stations: shows like "Twitch City", "The
6 News Room", "Dewy Gardens"(ph) and especially the new
7 one, "Foolish Heart". It is innovative, creative and
8 it is new; and the commercial stations would never air
9 it for those reasons and because it is very Canadian to
10 me.
11 489 Canadian content, to me, isn't just
12 having Canadian actors and writers who are performing
13 basically a pale imitation of an American standard, but
14 having a truly Canadian story and a Canadian voice.
15 490 Particularly with movies, with CTV or
16 Global I get simulcasts of American movies like "The
17 Doris Duke Story". On CBC I get "The Boys of St.
18 Vincent" and "For Those Who Hunt the Wounded Down".
19 Having those means so much to me, and I love them.
20 491 As Barb mentioned, I am the all
21 important supposed demographic. I would like to think
22 that I have some taste, hopefully.
23 492 CBC matters to me. It does. And I
24 think it matters to a lot of other people my age as
25 well, especially with the different bands and artists
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1 and thinkers you can't find anywhere else, with shows
2 like "Definitely Not the Opera" or even on a
3 "Round-up". It doesn't get brought to me on any other
4 channel.
5 493 I guess that is pretty much all I
6 had. CBC matters to me and I think it matters to most
7 Canadians. I think we need it to hear each other and
8 to reach each other and to understand each other.
9 494 That is all I have. Thank you.
10 --- Applause / Applaudissements
11 495 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms
12 Stowell.
13 496 Mr. Secretary.
14 1526
15 497 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
16 498 Elaine Driver, please.
17 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
18 499 MS DRIVER: Commissioners, ladies and
19 gentlemen: Although I am an avid CBC television
20 watcher, I intend to confine my remarks this afternoon
21 to the role of CBC radio in rural Saskatchewan. Most
22 of my comments will concern Radio One, AM radio, as we
23 are very much on the fringe of reception for the FM
24 broadcast.
25 500 I met a farmer in the bank this
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1 morning as I was getting ready to come up here, and I
2 told him where I was going because he said: "Where are
3 you going, all dressed up today?" He said: "Please,
4 please tell everybody how important CBC is to me. I
5 have to go seeding this spring, and it's the only way I
6 stay sane is to listen to CBC radio on my tractor."
7 501 I am appearing before this Commission
8 to tell you how vital CBC radio is to me. I speak from
9 the perspective of a rural woman who has spent many
10 years in the isolated setting of a farm, 20 kilometres
11 from the nearest town, and with fewer and fewer
12 neighbours.
13 502 No daily paper appears on the
14 doorstep. There is no computer in our home. Even
15 though the town library is limited as to what is on
16 site, books can be ordered; but that usually means you
17 would have to make two trips to town to access the
18 information you need.
19 503 It is understandable how important
20 access to CBC radio becomes in that kind of an isolated
21 setting. Feeding the intellect is as important as
22 feeding the body, as Tony Richmond said -- although I
23 said it first.
24 504 The CBC is a vital component that
25 fulfils the function of feeding the mind. We
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1 especially appreciate "The Morning Show" as we rise to
2 begin another day. We can find out if the weather will
3 be fair or fowl. We can determine what highway and
4 road conditions are and if our favourite team has won.
5 505 But it is more than the fact about
6 our environment. It is about our neighbours. The
7 human interest angle is featured as a very important
8 part of every story. We begin to understand the
9 character of our province and its people, creating an
10 even stronger sense of community.
11 506 Many of our interests are covered by
12 CBC. If it's music, there is music analysis; for jazz,
13 classical, folk and a wee bit of rock and roll. If it
14 is international or world beat music, there is a
15 program with that focus. If our interest is in
16 politics, there is political analysis at the national,
17 provincial and municipal level; and if it is the arts,
18 you can find out what is going on across the country,
19 and locally.
20 507 If farm market information is
21 important to you, you can find that -- although I would
22 like to say that coverage has been seriously eroded. I
23 guess as we lose farmers, we lose the need to provide
24 the market information.
25 508 CBC radio provides, to the very best
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1 of my knowledge, the only regular source of widely
2 varied radio drama. It is also one of the few places
3 where new and aspiring artistic performers are given
4 both regional and nation-wide coverage and
5 encouragement.
6 509 Through CBC radio, we can keep in
7 touch with the latest happenings in the visual arts,
8 gallery openings and what is going on at the Mendel(ph)
9 or the Norman Mackenzie.
10 510 I want to pay special tribute to the
11 high quality of the interviewing that takes place on
12 CBC radio. I will never forget Peter Gzowski's
13 interview with the young woman who was working with an
14 aid agency in Nicaragua who described the locale and
15 the mountains where women had banded together to form a
16 day care cooperative. As she was telling the story, I
17 soon recognized that this was the same place I had
18 visited a few years previously; and as it became clear
19 that the women were still, years later, experiencing
20 great difficulty in caring for those children, with no
21 resources at all, I found myself in tears.
22 511 This was only one example of Peter
23 Gzowski's ability to bring the world into our kitchen:
24 the mud huts from Africa, the slum shacks of South
25 American cities. And Peter was only one of many
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1 excellent interviewers whose work brought, and
2 continues to bring, a unique perspective to our lives.
3 512 The continuing fine tradition of "As
4 It Happens", from the days of Barbara Frum and Alan
5 Maitland to the present, has kept countless Canadians
6 well informed and challenged.
7 513 I also remember an outstanding
8 interview with Moshe Safdie that I just recently heard,
9 a wide-ranging discussion on architectural philosophy:
10 truly inspiring and enlightening, and where else would
11 you hear something like that.
12 514 CBC is also excellent in helping us
13 to appreciate other cultures around us. I am thinking
14 here of Tom Roberts, whose early morning contributions
15 from La Ronge give us a vivid picture of a First
16 Nations people living and working in northern
17 Saskatchewan. We find out about the trappers'
18 festivals, how the fur markets are doing, and how the
19 wild rice harvest has gone.
20 515 And then there is the comedy, the
21 laughter that keeps us going in the bleakest of times;
22 the droll outrageous humour of "The Dead Dog Cafe", the
23 general craziness of the gang from "Royal Canadian Air
24 Farce". They have since gone to television,
25 unfortunately.
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1 516 And of course my personal favourite
2 at the present time, Lorne Elliott's(ph) unique brand
3 of craziness on "Madly Off in All Directions".
4 517 Through CBC radio we also get an
5 inside view of that other distinctly Canadian comedic
6 relief, the goings-on in Ottawa and other political
7 arenas. Where else would we be able to get that kind
8 of quality in-depth coverage of public affairs that is
9 available, again without commercial interruption, every
10 Saturday morning, "On The House", with Jason Moskovitz,
11 and an amazing crew of dedicated researchers and
12 writers.
13 518 I am certain people who are making
14 decisions about the future of the CBC could conclude
15 that the world wide web would fulfil the needs of
16 people for that kind of information that CBC radio
17 presently offers.
18 519 However, statistics tell us that
19 under 10 per cent of the people have ready access to
20 the Internet, and that this figure will increase only
21 marginally over the next decade.
22 520 On the other side, I would guess that
23 99.9 per cent of people have a radio.
24 521 Even looking at those households who
25 have satellite dishes, these provide high-quality
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1 sound; but I would argue that fewer people have access
2 to these than you would think and that there is little
3 programming of the sort CBC provides and which I have
4 discussed above.
5 522 To sum up, I want to cast my vote in
6 favour of imaginative, informative, and uplifting
7 programming that CBC radio has over the past years
8 offered to the people of rural Saskatchewan. I realize
9 that in recent years this sterling effort has had to
10 contend with short-sighted and stingy governance from
11 politicians who seem unable to appreciate the crucial
12 role of this institution in the shaping of our national
13 character and identity.
14 523 Here is one solid cheer for the good
15 work that the CBC has done and must be allowed to
16 continue to do.
17 524 In closing, may I add our grave
18 concern as to the effect of the continuing labour
19 difficulties and urge the people at the bargaining
20 table to hurry up and settle the strike.
21 525 Thank you very much.
22 --- Applause / Applaudissements
23 526 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms
24 Driver.
25 527 Mr. Secretary.
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1 1530
2 528 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
3 529 Al Taylor, please.
4 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
5 530 MR. TAYLOR: I am not nearly as well
6 prepared as my previous presenters. I will try and
7 keep it short.
8 531 The thing that struck me while I was
9 listening to the person travelling through
10 Saskatchewan -- which I did most of my working life
11 through rural Saskatchewan and northern Saskatchewan,
12 and believe me, without CBC radio you would not be
13 informed at all about what is going on in Canada and in
14 Saskatchewan.
15 532 When you are driving two and three
16 hours at a time between meetings, you have to have
17 something to keep you awake over our broad flat plains
18 that grow so much beautiful grain, and it was CBC
19 radio. I never, as I recall, tuned into any other
20 station, because I cannot stand being blasted with
21 advertising, telling me to consume, and consume and
22 consume.
23 533 So I am another small voice, like
24 Barbara who just presented, bringing my point of view,
25 which has already been so well stated by so many other
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1 people.
2 534 I have just a few points or comments.
3 535 CBC radio, in my opinion, must
4 continue. Improved funding is absolutely essential. I
5 want it to remain advertising free. In fact, I have
6 written down here "it must remain advertising free".
7 536 CBC television, which I enjoy -- I
8 guess in our house we listen to the CBC morning, noon
9 and night. And when I get upset at something that is
10 being done, the radio happens to get turned on.
11 537 CBC television doesn't strike me as
12 doing a job that I think it should be doing for Canada.
13 I would argue that it should be advertising free. I
14 think that is a great leap forward, rather than going
15 back to the past. We used to actually have television
16 that was advertising free.
17 538 CBC television is, and can be, very
18 unique in many ways. Surely our rich diverse country
19 can afford one national commercial-free channel that
20 isn't urging us hour after hour after hour to consume
21 and consume. If necessary, increase my taxes.
22 539 A couple of other points. I am not
23 well prepared, but I have been discussing this with
24 friends and neighbours. The person I am quoting now is
25 legally blind and has a hip problem so doesn't get out
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1 of the house very much, and listens to CBC morning,
2 noon, night -- and well after night, into the middle of
3 the morning.
4 540 The strike, as far as she is
5 concerned, has really cut her off from all kinds of
6 programs she wants to hear. Since it is practically
7 the only information that comes into the house, she is
8 just tired of the repeating programs. She has heard
9 them all, and heard them all again, and she thinks it
10 is time for some new ones.
11 541 She also asked me to mention that
12 more programs that force us to deal with the racism
13 that is all around us is really important. CBC does
14 some of this; but arguably, there is much more that can
15 be done. We are becoming a very diverse country
16 ethnically, and it just seems to me that it should be
17 dealt with openly and honestly and with lots of
18 dignity.
19 542 Many more programs showing the
20 positive accomplishments of native and other minority
21 and immigrant groups would be well advised. Much
22 broader TV representation of all sports played in
23 Canada. Some of us would be actually happy to see CBC
24 give up the unlimited coverage of the National Hockey
25 League, especially during play-off season.
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1 543 What we would like to see is much
2 more coverage of all sports in Canada. We do have good
3 standards in badminton, table tennis. Right now, I
4 can't think of any more; but squash, and that sort of
5 thing, never gets any coverage at all -- at least it is
6 so little that I never see it. Maybe it is because I
7 don't' watch sports all the time.
8 544 We would like to see much more
9 coverage of all the small volunteer NGO groups that are
10 really trying to save the world.
11 545 This last one is brought in mostly
12 because I am a concerned environmentalist, and I see
13 commercial television advertising for us to consume
14 great masses of resources that are very fast running
15 out. We need discussion, and we need some station that
16 is trying to inform us about what is going on in the
17 real world rather than trying to get us to consume more
18 and more of it faster and faster.
19 546 I would like to congratulate all the
20 other people who have made presentations on behalf of
21 the CBC. I get angry at them periodically, but I
22 wouldn't want to give them up for the world.
23 547 Thank you.
24 --- Applause / Applaudissements
25 548 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
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1 Taylor.
2 549 For everybody's information Mr.
3 Taylor used to live in my home town of Indian Head.
4 550 Mr. Secretary.
5 1538
6 551 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
7 552 Lee Boyko, please.
8 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
9 553 MR. BOYKO: Thank you for the
10 opportunity to speak today. My name is Lee Boyko. I
11 am the Executive Director of the Museum Association of
12 British Columbia, where our umbrella organization
13 represents about 225 museums, art galleries and related
14 organizations around the province.
15 554 First, I want to say that many of the
16 comments I wanted to say have already been made, so I
17 will cut those out and keep them fairly short.
18 555 I also want to talk a little bit
19 about process at the beginning.
20 556 About ten years ago I lived in a town
21 called Prince Rupert, in British Columbia. The CRTC
22 came to do a hearing there when the CBC decided to
23 eliminate the radio station that existed there. The
24 CRTC made a bit of a solemn like decision by saying
25 "Well, you still have to keep one person there from the
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1 15-person station that used to exist", and we would
2 have sort of a morning program, bureau type thing that
3 you have in British Columbia.
4 557 Subsequent to that, my understanding
5 is that that person is shared between Prince George,
6 which is about 400 miles away, and unfortunately the
7 quality of service has deteriorated greatly. Where my
8 concern is, especially hearing today many people
9 talking about the importance of CBC radio -- and I know
10 that previously at previous CRTC hearings the same
11 thing has been expressed -- and yet CBC management has
12 managed to avoid dealing with that in an effective
13 manner.
14 558 In many cases they have continued to
15 cut CBC radio and put resources into things like CBC
16 television, despite what people have been saying at
17 these types of meetings.
18 559 I don't know if the CRTC has the real
19 power to make sure that CBC management listens to what
20 people are saying at these meetings. That I have a
21 real concern about. I don't know how the CRTC can most
22 effectively approach that.
23 560 It seems to me that often the CBC
24 just goes ahead does what they want to do despite what
25 the rulings are around them. So I will start off with
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1 that.
2 561 I guess amongst everything else I am
3 just going to focus on one thing that I think the CBC
4 could be looking at doing, and that is in the area of
5 partnerships. Certainly today we have heard some
6 examples of partnerships and some things where CBC has
7 been very effective, but I think the CBC can be doing a
8 lot more in this area.
9 562 That is one area that you can look
10 at, one of its sister organizations, the National Film
11 Board, which, like so many national cultural
12 organizations, has taken its beating over the years.
13 One thing that the National Film Board has been very
14 effective at is working in partnership with community
15 organizations.
16 563 I worked with three different museums
17 where we ended up having documentaries that were able
18 to be used by the museum in its programming and so
19 forth that were helped and supported by the NFB, not
20 just through money, but through expertise and so forth.
21 564 I think that too often the CBC only
22 looks at partnerships in cases where they are going to
23 get direct broadcast hours out of it. I think the CBC
24 can spend some more time looking at partnerships that
25 both sides are getting other benefits.
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1 565 Another example is that around this
2 province and throughout many community museums there
3 are literally thousands of hours of oral histories that
4 have been done over the years. Frankly, most of those
5 oral histories rotting away. Their tape has not been
6 looked at properly and have not been transcribed
7 properly. I think there is a great opportunity there
8 to use some of the expertise of the CBC and their new
9 digital technologies, and so forth, to help preserve
10 that history and perhaps get some programming out of
11 it.
12 566 I guess what I am saying is that they
13 don't always have to work in partnership with groups
14 just to get direct programming; they can help to
15 preserve the culture and heritage of this country in
16 other ways.
17 567 I think the CBC should look at that
18 type of partnership that goes beyond their broadcast
19 mandate. I think they can do that.
20 568 Second, I want to comment a little
21 bit about the arts recording that has been occurring on
22 the CBC over the past number of years. I think many of
23 us have been encouraged by especially CBC radio's
24 inclusion of more arts reporters and the development
25 their cultural web site I think has been very good and
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1 has a lot of potential.
2 569 At the same time a number of
3 organizations are finding that the emphasis of the
4 "Arts Report" is towards news; i.e., controversy. I
5 suppose that the news side especially of CBC has to be
6 careful about being seen to be biased or being seen to
7 promote as opposed to find a news story. Yet, I think
8 one of the roles of the CBC is just that; to promote
9 the cultural awareness around the country of various
10 things.
11 570 Is it really arts reporters that we
12 need or arts interpreters that we need at the CBC? I
13 think that needs to be considered a bit. Not all new
14 stories need to have controversy. Unfortunately, I
15 have seen that sort of shift; and it is not just the
16 CBC, but all media to some degree.
17 571 Lastly, as I said, many of the things
18 have been said. I grew up listening to CBC radio.
19 Where I lived outside of Vancouver, I was about 150
20 yards from the main CBC transmitters. I couldn't help
21 but listen to CBC radio frankly, in many cases. But I
22 enjoyed it.
23 572 Just one other thing about the CBC --
24 and this is talking about the negative stuff.
25 573 It seems to me that often the CBC
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1 sees itself as being the only source of culture in
2 Canada. About three or four years ago when one report
3 came down that looked at the CBC, the NFB and Telefilm,
4 for about a week and a half on CBC news all you heard
5 was about how the report talked about the CBC. Very
6 seldom did you ever hear them talk about Telefilm or
7 the NFB. You had "The Journal" at the time that would
8 spend a whole half hour on the troubles and trials of
9 the CBC. At the beginning of the news, there would be
10 ten minutes' worth of the CBC. Yet, there were two
11 other organizations that were talked about in the same
12 report.
13 574 I wish sometimes the CBC would step
14 back. I guess what I am saying is that I don't think
15 they do themselves good service when they seem to be
16 self-serving in some of those news reports and news
17 coverages that they do about issues surrounding the
18 CBC.
19 575 I know there were comments at the
20 time about that particular issues. I think the CBC
21 needs to step back and realize that yes, they are an
22 important part of the cultural mosaic of this country.
23 But we had culture before the CBC existed, and we will
24 have culture forever and ever. It may change and be
25 different. They have a role to play, but they have to
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1 realize that they are part of a larger community.
2 Sometimes I think they only see themselves as being
3 "the" community.
4 576 Those are some comments. Thank you.
5 --- Applause / Applaudissements
6 577 THE CHAIRPERSON: Just for the
7 record, Mr. Boyko, you are with the Museum Association
8 of Saskatchewan?
9 578 MR. BOYKO: Did I say B.C.?
10 579 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
11 580 MR. BOYKO: I knew I was going to do
12 that. I just moved here.
13 581 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
14 582 Mr. Secretary.
15 1546
16 583 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
17 584 Jonathan Bingham, please.
18 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
19 585 MR. BINGHAM: Madam Chair,
20 Commissioner, my name is Jonathan Bingham. I am here
21 because I owe a great debt to the many wise and
22 wonderful people in the broadcasting industry, namely
23 the BBC and CBC. These people have sparked my interest
24 in many particular topics, increased by knowledge bank
25 and showed me where to find more information.
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1 586 I listen to the CBC radio every day
2 of my life, starting around 5:00 a.m. and finishing
3 when "As it Happens" signs off at 8:00 p.m. My
4 preferred listening is Radio Two. the reason I prefer
5 radio is that I can work and do other things while
6 listening. On the other hand, when I watch TV I become
7 chair-bound and inactive, which is a very, very
8 dangerous comfort zone.
9 587 I will present the germ of an idea
10 for the future of the CBC. However, I have no idea of
11 the extent of the Commission's powers on the CBC's
12 mandate, et cetera.
13 588 CBC Present Situation: There are
14 people in power who are extremely vocal in their wish
15 to see the CBC eliminated. On the other side, there is
16 a silent majority who wants the CBC to be successful.
17 I am pleased to see that this silent majority has a
18 voice at these important Commission hearings.
19 589 The main programs on Radio Two are
20 excellent. I hear a wide variety of music, literature
21 and opinions that are both instructive and
22 entertaining. It is evident that some autonomy is
23 given to local stations because a few Radio Two
24 broadcasts originate in Halifax, Vancouver and Calgary,
25 et cetera. There is a good representation of
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1 provincial music makers -- orchestras, choirs, et
2 cetera.
3 590 Unfortunately, the content of news
4 broadcasts follows the contemporary pattern of "if it's
5 a scandal or if it bleeds it leads", followed by all
6 the gloom and doom of the day. However, all the
7 overseas news reporters do an excellent job of
8 providing all of the facts on international news items
9 in a short space of time.
10 591 On the other hand, Radio One's "As it
11 Happens", which unfortunately has been severely
12 restricted by budget restraints, is an excellent news
13 program. It presents a wide variety of national and
14 international news items. The presentation and
15 production are specific, crisp, lively, instructing and
16 entertaining. This program is popular across America
17 and it should be a CBC "banner" program.
18 592 The CBC "National" is a mirror image
19 of commercial TV news broadcasts with all the negative
20 traits -- commonly known as Infotainment.
21 593 The Future: In my opinion, CBC and
22 Radio-Canada must develop programs which present every
23 positive aspect of the Canadian lifestyle, culture,
24 commerce, industry and our country, province by
25 province, to the Nation.
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1 594 To achieve this goal, there must be a
2 working partnership between the CBC, Radio-Canada and
3 the National Film Board. In addition, the provincial
4 CBC stations must be given total autonomy to produce
5 these programs.
6 595 The resulting programs will allow
7 Canadians to experience the sights, sounds and culture
8 of the people in every province. Most Canadians have
9 neither the money nor the time to travel to gain these
10 experiences first hand.
11 596 In addition, this understanding of
12 our fellow Canadians will create a unifying emotion,
13 which will be politically persuasive. This should
14 silence the CBC critics and the divisive forces in
15 Canada.
16 597 The following excellent Canadian
17 programs should be retained:
18 598 "Canadian Royal Air Farce" and "This
19 Hour Has 22 Minutes". These are watch dogs on the
20 actions and words of our politicians and power brokers.
21 599 "On the Road Again" and "Country
22 Canada" are programs which present Canadians to other
23 Canadians.
24 600 These programs must replace the
25 existing foreign shows. This no doubt will create a
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1 backlash from the American TV industry, which
2 incidentally is adequately represented on Canadian
3 commercial stations. They have to understand that this
4 is our broadcasting network, and they must be taught to
5 keep their noses out of it.
6 601 This suggestion will require
7 additional funding and in some instances additional
8 space for regional stations. In my opinion, this
9 funding should come from provincial contributions taken
10 from government gambling profits. The premiers and
11 other politicians have a lot to say about Canadian
12 unity. This is an opportunity for them to back up
13 their statements with money or alternatively keep their
14 mouths shut.
15 602 My gut feeling is that the CBC is an
16 autocratic pyramid shaped organization with the usual
17 barriers around each internal division. This
18 suggestion will require a complete revision of the
19 corporate organization. The guidelines for this
20 revision can be found in the book titled "Firing on all
21 Cylinders...the Service/Quality System for High Powered
22 Corporate Performance", authored by Jim Clemmens.
23 603 Personally speaking, when I hear that
24 a program has an executive producer, an associate
25 producer and a producer, I am inclined to think that
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1 the CBC has too many management levels.
2 604 I would suggest that "The National"
3 should be revised and present the news from the
4 provincial stations and allocate one 20-minute segment
5 to a detailed report on one major international event
6 that will affect Canada and Canadians. I am sure that
7 this can be achieved using current technology and the
8 excellent CBC foreign correspondents.
9 605 Finally, this suggestion will require
10 detailed and careful preparation; careful planning,
11 persistence and the involvement and dedication of all
12 Radio-Canada, CBC and National Film Board staff.
13 Adequate time for preparation is also essential.
14 606 I thank you for the opportunity to
15 express my opinion on the future of the CBC and to wish
16 you success in the daunting task of finalizing this
17 issue.
18 607 Thank you.
19 --- Applause / Applaudissements
20 608 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
21 Bingham.
22 609 Mr. Secretary.
23 1555
24 610 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
25 611 Ida Grosse, please.
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1 612 MS GROSSE: Do I have to turn my
2 microphone on?
3 613 MR. LAHAY: Yes, please turn on your
4 micropohone.
5 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
6 614 MS GROSSE: Good afternoon, everyone.
7 I don't have to tell you that this is the first time I
8 have done this kind of a presentation, if I forget to
9 turn on my mic.
10 615 I appreciate this opportunity to be
11 here on behalf of myself to speak to the CBC. As far
12 as I know, I am the only person who is still running
13 around with two "Vote For CBC" bumper stickers on her
14 car. I have been watching for others, but I haven't
15 seen them.
16 616 I am a senior who lives alone in
17 rural Saskatchewan, and I relate very much to what I
18 have heard from other rural people here.
19 617 I want to say that the CBC is like
20 family to me. I breakfast with Sheila and her team. I
21 lunch with Lindy and the cast, and I sup with Colin.
22 618 I do not have cable television. My
23 TV time is limited, but I do have my favourite
24 programs, and you have heard some of them mentioned
25 here.
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1 619 Many of my thoughts and feelings have
2 already been expressed here today, so I won't repeat
3 them. But I must say that CBC radio is very, very
4 vital to me in my life.
5 620 Local regions are not adequately
6 covered in national media. National coverage is too
7 much USA coverage, I find. It really irks me when the
8 national news comes on and the first item is something
9 that happened across the border, and something vital
10 that happened here gets second or third place.
11 621 Foreign news coverage is excellent.
12 I get to go all over the world. I can see Israel and
13 Istanbul and even India, which really broadens my
14 horizons.
15 622 Saskatchewan has an abundance of
16 distance. I don't have to tell you, but some of the
17 others might not know that. You can't drive many
18 kilometres to pick up a daily newspaper to get the
19 news. We depend on the CBC.
20 623 Rural areas would be very limited if
21 it were not for the CBC, particularly the radio, in
22 learning and hearing about world events.
23 624 I appreciate CBC's accent on the
24 people of the world as it is done on "As it Happens".
25 The morning programs that we have had with Peter
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1 Gzowski and Alan Maitland really open the world up for
2 those of us who keep our time in the kitchen. They are
3 great company.
4 625 I feel the interviews done with
5 people involved in the news are more real and almost
6 like speaking with a neighbour as opposed to what comes
7 through the written word.
8 626 Recently I have been out of the
9 country for a time, and this gave me a vivid reality
10 check on how well we are served by the CBC, even with
11 all of its problems and its faults.
12 627 It's something like Gilles(ph) Brown
13 said: that the farther away you get from the mountain,
14 the more vivid it is to you. That is what I saw with
15 the coverage I witnessed when I was away. It really
16 made me value what we have here.
17 628 The human touch is non existent on
18 CNN coverage. To me, there one sees a very marked view
19 of world affairs. As a senior living alone, I need the
20 company of the CBC, and I know I speak for many others
21 who also have grey hair.
22 629 I just read that 12 per cent of
23 Canadians are aged over 65 years of age, so we are a
24 formidable group.
25 630 I was also told by someone who could
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1 not come, or was not brave enough to brave the roads to
2 come in this morning from outlying areas, and was
3 disappointed about the geographic location; that there
4 was just one spot in Saskatchewan to come to. Much as
5 I appreciate this opportunity, there are those who
6 would have liked to have come too.
7 631 I feel keeping company with the CBC
8 helps our general health, especially as we are older,
9 and wards off depression. Where else are programs like
10 "Tapestry", "Quirks and Quarks", "As it Happens" and
11 "Ideas" -- for which I have a very special spot in my
12 heart -- "Richardson's Round-up", or, as I said, our
13 local morning programs.
14 632 "Cross Country Checkup" gives you a
15 feeling of the pulse throughout the country. You can
16 hear the people from the east coast to the west coast
17 on that Sunday afternoon program. It is so important
18 to me that I try to schedule my travelling during that
19 time, which means I don't get on the line, but I do get
20 to hear.
21 633 These are some of the mainstays in my
22 listening calendar.
23 634 When I called to make this
24 appointment, I wasn't given much guidance on what would
25 happen, so I didn't have a very prepared transcript. I
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1 am glad I was here to listen and to voice my thoughts.
2 But I did want to answer your questions on the question
3 that came out to me.
4 635 The first question was:
5 "In your view, how well does the
6 CBC fulfil its role as the
7 national public broadcaster?"
8 636 I think it needs broader horizons and
9 more Canadian artistic promotions; larger Canadian
10 content and news happening to people; and history truly
11 related to Quebec and truly related to the USA.
12 637 Local coverage is regional in
13 content; national coverage should have primary emphasis
14 on Canadian news. I feel the CBC remains a strong
15 bonding force for Canada. I believe it is essential to
16 our country remaining a country.
17 638 I would like to say here another
18 obvious thing that hit me very forcibly when I was out
19 of the country. We are in a war for our minds and for
20 our air space. This hit me so hard I became very
21 frightened about what is happening to our country as a
22 country. I think it really emphasizes the importance
23 of the CBC. We need it.
24 639 Programs like "Morning Edition" on
25 radio give good rapport with local events, and "People
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1 Noon Edition" provides links with agriculture, industry
2 in our province. And as Saskatchewan is such an
3 agricultural province, we certainly need to all
4 understand the conditions there.
5 640 "As it Happens" opens the window to
6 rural events and people.
7 641 The second question on your form is:
8 "How well does the CBC serve the
9 public on a regional as well as
10 at a national level?"
11 642 I believe I have already answered
12 that with all the points I have made.
13 "Should the programming provided
14 by CBC radio and television be
15 different from that provided by
16 other broadcasters? If so, what
17 should these differences be?"
18 643 I think it should have more definite
19 Canadian focus. I would like to see true
20 documentaries, dramas dealing with things like our
21 Aboriginal people, our true history.
22 644 I was surprised to learn a fact of
23 history that really blew me off the chair. Long ago,
24 in the seventeen hundreds when there was a civil war
25 down across the line, and Britain was involved with the
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1 southern forces. For that reason, they were sent a
2 bill in many, many millions of dollars to pay for war
3 damages, and the deal was that if the seceded Canada,
4 they would cancel the debt.
5 645 That is the kind of history we have
6 to hear. I think we should know our background.
7 646 Not only are we rich in resources in
8 Canada, but we are also rich in ethnic cultures. We
9 could do a lot of studies on the Dukhobors, the
10 Mennonites, many other groups that are here. We, as
11 Canadians, should know about these people, should know
12 fully about them. The CBC could serve this purpose.
13 "Is there a special role that
14 the CBC should play?
15 647 Broaden our horizons in art,
16 literature, music, history. We need to learn and
17 experience full Canadian culture.
18 648 I thank you for this opportunity.
19 649 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms
20 Grosse. Drive carefully.
21 650 Mr. Secretary.
22 1605
23 651 MR. LAHAY: thank you, Madam chair.
24 652 Brian Cousins, please.
25 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
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1 653 MR. COUSINS: Thank you. I am here
2 today because I highly value the CBC for its
3 contribution to the cultural and political wellbeing of
4 Canada, but I believe the CBC's future potential is in
5 jeopardy. At the outset, I should confess to a past
6 association with the corporation that no doubt
7 influences my thoughts and my concerns.
8 654 I was employed by the CBC for 22
9 years in Inuvik, Iqaluit, Thunder Bay, Ottawa and
10 Regina. My last assignment was to serve as Regional
11 Director and Director of Television for CBC English
12 operations in Saskatchewan from 1992 to 1996. I chose
13 to resign two years ago. I was simply unwilling to
14 continue what I view as the dismantling of CBC in this
15 province. I was also concerned about certain
16 programming decisions being imposed upon and being
17 chosen by CBC television management.
18 655 I maintain my concerns of two years
19 ago, but I present them to you today as a listener and
20 a viewer. I would like to limit my observations and
21 suggestions to three general areas relating to the CBC.
22 656 First, its mix of regional and
23 national television programming; second, the need for a
24 more distinctive television service; and third, the
25 issue of public participation in the corporation.
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1 657 Personally, I believe CBC is much
2 like the company that it was created to reflect.
3 Canada is a massive nation with the confederation that,
4 not surprisingly, includes tensions between its centre
5 and its regions. There is a constant challenge to
6 balance regional and national interests.
7 658 It is my sense, having lived in
8 several regions, that the confederation works best when
9 key regional aspirations are adequately addressed. I
10 would describe these key aspirations as an adequate
11 level of regional autonomy, a fair share of regional
12 opportunity and a nationally recognized sense of
13 regional identity and value.
14 659 Similarly, I believe our national
15 public broadcaster could better meet its mandate if
16 these legitimate regional aspirations were more fully
17 addressed within the operations of the CBC.
18 660 However, largely because of the
19 government's attack on CBC budget, the
20 regional/national mix of CBC television programming is
21 seriously imbalanced. This weakens the relevance of
22 CBC service in the regions such as Saskatchewan, which
23 in turn could undermine CBC television's national role.
24 The result may be to further erode the public's
25 relation to and confidence in the CBC.
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1 661 Between 1991 and 1996 CBC
2 Saskatchewan's budgets were reduced by about 25 per
3 cent, but with new technology, new approaches to
4 co-production with independent producers, new
5 flexibility in CBC union agreements and a lot of hard
6 work by some very talented staff, the quantity and
7 quality of CBC Saskatchewan television production was
8 growing.
9 662 In addition to the first priority of
10 maintaining strong regional journalism, four regional
11 television production priorities had been established.
12 They included providing a television stage for
13 Saskatchewan performers, producing television programs
14 reflecting the interests and ideas of Saskatchewan's
15 young people, developing programs that could help
16 bridge the serious communication gap between aboriginal
17 and non-aboriginal peoples in this province, and
18 continuing the expansion and variety of co-production
19 activity with independent Saskatchewan producers for
20 both regional and national broadcast.
21 663 But with the Federal government's
22 last swing of the axe, and with the apparent
23 acquiescence of the CBC's board of directors, two years
24 ago these regional initiatives came crashing to an end;
25 and with their demise came denied opportunities for
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1 Saskatchewan writers, performers, artists and
2 technicians, to say nothing of denied opportunities for
3 Saskatchewan viewers.
4 664 Resources for regional journalism
5 were significantly reduced. Resources for all other
6 programming, budgets and people were wiped out.
7 665 As with Canada itself, the CBC cannot
8 meet its mandate, cannot properly contribute to the
9 health of the federation if its regional aspirations
10 are thwarted. Canadians need a CBC board of directors
11 that will stand up for the CBC's role as defined in the
12 Broadcasting Act. The ineffectiveness of the CBC in
13 this regard is disheartening.
14 666 Incidentally, I note that
15 Saskatchewan has not had a representative on the CBC
16 board since 1971.
17 667 The corporation's unions seem more
18 willing to speak up for public broadcasting than the
19 corporation's board. If neither the Federal Cabinet
20 nor the CBC board will defend the Broadcasting Act and
21 the CBC's regional mandate, we must look to the CRTC to
22 address this issue through the licence renewal process.
23 668 The lack of commitment to CBC
24 regional programming provides a convenient segue to the
25 need for CBC television to become a more distinctive
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1 and more valued Canadian television service. CBC can
2 be justifiably proud in demonstrating that its program
3 content has been and continues to be distinctive when
4 compared to private sector broadcasters, particularly
5 with respect to the variety and magnitude of Canadian
6 programming. But CBC television continues to behave
7 and portray itself as just another network, obsessed
8 with competition and with the private network image.
9 669 Let me mention just two examples with
10 regional implications.
11 670 Regional CBC news as repeatedly been
12 kicked around as "The National", moved from 11 o'clock,
13 to 10 o'clock, to 9 o'clock, back to 10 o'clock. Then
14 "The National" was scheduled twice on the main network
15 and twice on CBC Newsworld so that it could
16 cumulatively claim a larger audience than CTV's
17 national news.
18 671 "The National" is a terrific program,
19 but a fourth nightly broadcast of "The National" in
20 this region, and every other region, at the expense of
21 providing a regional news alternative at 11 o'clock, is
22 really just a Toronto-centric decision that offends the
23 sensibilities of the regions.
24 672 A second example. Instead of taking
25 a fresh alternative approach to regional news and
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1 current affairs, CBC insists of having supper-hour
2 shows competing head to head with private stations in
3 every region, sometimes with dismal ratings. The
4 opportunity to be truly distinctive, to carve out a
5 niche to provide an alternative is lost because CBC
6 continues to roll out formula-driven smiling news teams
7 behind the anchor desk, just like every other station.
8 673 For the public, if CBC television
9 looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a
10 duck, chances are it will be considered a duck, no
11 matter how special its feathers. It is time for CBC
12 television, in my view, to move to the other side of
13 the pond to become a swan.
14 674 Time does not permit me to discuss
15 the many ways in which this might be done and how such
16 a transformation might actually increase its ratings.
17 But let me mention one essential element that would
18 make it more distinctive, and that is regional hosting
19 and regional programming.
20 675 By definition, greater regional
21 content will contribute to the distinctiveness of CBC
22 in the 200-channel universe. All of the new channels
23 are national or international in content and target
24 audience, and private stations do little regional
25 programming of any depth beyond local news. Even a
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1 modest commitment to regional programming would also
2 help the corporation to better reflect the regions of
3 the country, one to another.
4 676 Let me add that I do not personally
5 believe that CBC should become more distinctive by only
6 providing alternative minority audience programming.
7 This is a cherished model for CBC radio, but if applied
8 to CBC television, the corporation's programming might
9 reach less than a quarter of the population. That is
10 not good enough.
11 677 I believe CBC television must
12 continue to include significant blocks of mass appeal
13 Canadian programming in its schedule. It must continue
14 to help counter the staggering social influence of
15 American programming with Canadian television
16 experiences, presented through a mix of popular and
17 alternative programming.
18 678 Just a short aside here. To ensure a
19 symbiotic relationship between CBC radio and
20 television, and to use resources sufficiently, I have
21 to tell you my personal view is and has been that radio
22 and television's operations at the regional level
23 should be fully integrated. The current split,
24 radio/television, may have reason in Toronto, but I
25 believe is wasteful and counter-productive when applied
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1 in the regions.
2 679 Let me conclude with my final point.
3 680 Through these public consultations
4 being conducted by the CRTC, the Commission is helping
5 to compensate for the inability of the CBC to regularly
6 engage the public in the business of public
7 broadcasting. Similar to CBC television often being
8 considered just another network, I fear the CBC itself
9 is increasingly seen as just another corporation.
10 681 Although Canadians may understand
11 that the CBC is intended to serve public interests and
12 use its public funds to do so, the CBC has not been
13 very successful in achieving public accountability and
14 public participation in its operations.
15 682 To some extent, this has enabled the
16 government to ruthlessly attack the CBC because for
17 many Canadians the CBC is seen as aloof and distant.
18 Canadians lack a sense of ownership and influence when
19 it comes to the CBC. I believe this will only change
20 if there is a sincere and philosophical commitment
21 within the CBC to lower the drawbridge and let the
22 public cross the moat. Again, this can I believe best
23 be done on a regional basis.
24 683 In fact, here is a suggestion -- and
25 I will just wrap this up right away: It may be time to
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1 consider creating, at almost no cost, a citizens
2 council for each region, consisting of members
3 appointed by existing organizations representing the
4 broad audience sectors. We would then want to ensure
5 that regional and national management in an open public
6 forum would meet and respond to such a council at least
7 once or twice a year.
8 684 There has to be those connections to
9 the community, the ownership that would come from it.
10 Among other things, I think a citizens council might
11 also heighten public awareness and discussion about the
12 role of journalism in a democracy, why it is important,
13 and why there are serious consequences if journalism is
14 left solely to the private corporate sector.
15 685 Madam Commissioner, the CBC is a
16 national treasure. It is an essential element of
17 Canada's identity. I think it is time to put the
18 public back in public broadcasting.
19 686 Thank you very much.
20 --- Applause / Applaudissements
21 687 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
22 Cousins.
23 688 Mr. Secretary.
24 1616
25 689 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
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1 690 Norman Bray, please.
2 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
3 691 MR. BRAY: Commissioners, ladies and
4 gentlemen, the Regina Chapter of the Council of
5 Canadians is pleased to speak in support of public
6 broadcasting and in support of the Canadian
7 Broadcasting Corporation.
8 692 I should say that the Council of
9 Canadians are advocates but they are not lawyers, so in
10 your list of participants the spelling of "counsel"
11 should be changed to the alternative.
12 693 I would like to speak my agreement
13 with all the excellent presentations that we have heard
14 this afternoon.
15 694 Canada shares a border and shares
16 communications with the dominant United States of
17 America. Canada is thus submerged in the messages of a
18 foreign nation. The CBC is one of the few means by
19 which we provide a Canadian voice and a Canadian
20 perspective to inform us of what is happening in Canada
21 and in the world. So CBC is essential to the
22 preservation of a Canadian identity.
23 695 There is no adequate alternative in
24 sight. It is likely it will always be more expedient
25 for a commercial broadcaster in Canada to import United
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1 States programming than to develop Canadian
2 programming. The mere presence of U.S. programming,
3 along with other U.S. communications, infers to
4 Canadians that things Canadian are inferior, or why
5 else wouldn't we see Canadian material being presented
6 and talked about?
7 696 I want to give you a personal
8 example.
9 697 When I was attending university, I
10 worked one summer with the pipeline. The skilled
11 workers on the pipeline were from Texas, Oklahoma and
12 Louisiana, and I would be enthralled by their stories
13 of working across the lines in North America and into
14 Africa. I believed that these were the people that
15 knew how to pipeline.
16 698 There was on the crew a Canadian
17 operator, a backhoe operator from Manitoba. I said to
18 him one day: "These Americans really know how to build
19 pipelines." And he said: "Oh, I don't know. I think
20 a Canadian can do just as well. Me and other
21 Canadians, we certainly can pipeline."
22 699 And of course they can. We have
23 proven that. But why would I, as a 20-year-old
24 Saskatchewan youth about to graduate from our
25 provincial university have such a deplorable attitude
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1 towards Canada and Canadians? While I didn't argue
2 with this operator of the backhoe, I walked away from
3 the conversation and said to myself: "No, he is
4 totally wrong and he is lucky to have a semi-skilled
5 job in this operation."
6 700 Why would you have such a deplorable
7 attitude? I think it has to be because you have had 20
8 years of absorbing American movies, American
9 publications, American TV and American broadcasting.
10 It is insidious the way this inferior complex affects
11 Canadians. We need to do something about it, because
12 it is still happening.
13 701 Canadians will need to pay for an
14 adequate CBC service. This expense should be seen as
15 an investment in Canada and in the continuation of our
16 nation, not as a cost. There seems to be a sure
17 connection between a Canada that appears to have lost
18 its way, has become increasingly colonized by the
19 United States in recent years and a CBC that seems to
20 have become confined and neutered.
21 702 We might measure the worth of the CBC
22 by its listeners and its viewers. There is also a
23 wider gauge. CBC seems to set a standard for private
24 as well as public broadcasters. A strong CBC forces
25 private competitors to improve services; a weakened CBC
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1 allows private broadcasting to decline as well.
2 703 A healthy nation needs to know about
3 itself, to have reports and opinions from all segments
4 of the country. Citizens need to know what is going on
5 in the world, how Canadians fit into the world, and
6 what effect Canada is having on the world. We need to
7 know how people around the world are responding to
8 Canada and to Canadians.
9 704 The alternative to the CBC can be
10 frightening in the poverty of its offerings. For
11 radio, there is basically two choices: CBC or the
12 other station. Although there may be several other
13 stations, most non-CBC stations tend to have the same
14 fare: canned programs of western music or hits of the
15 past, advertisements and little else, although there
16 may be a syndicated U.S. columnist or some U.S. or
17 local talk radio.
18 705 For information or for challenging or
19 interesting opinion, or to be somewhat aware of current
20 events in Canadian industry or finance, or to be aware
21 of the arts in Canada, the listener must return to CBC
22 radio.
23 706 In the case of television, we select
24 from perhaps 60 channels but perhaps half a dozen of
25 these will be Canadian; and on these, most viewing time
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1 will be on U.S. programming. Only CBC has been able to
2 bring significant Canadian programming.
3 707 CBC is not as good as it was.
4 Perhaps we recall a golden period in the past. The CBC
5 is at increasing peril. We fear that the CBC is being
6 sabotaged by the which should be
7 its defender and preserver.
8 708 The fact that we have a strike now,
9 which will certainly be seen as diminishing the worth
10 of CBC -- and no doubt will -- may be a strike that has
11 been forced by management and by government to increase
12 that sabotaging of that service.
13 709 The CBC has suffered over the years
14 from cuts to funding. This shows most obviously in the
15 amount of repeat broadcasting. A program originally
16 broadcast a year ago may be rebroadcast on a CBC
17 program in the morning and then that program will be
18 repeated in the evening.
19 710 The international services suffered,
20 the national services suffered and at the regional
21 level the CBC has almost ceased to exist.
22 711 Just as CBC is not as good as it was,
23 private radio and television is not as good as it used
24 to be and we have noted that these are related.
25 712 Private broadcasting also suffers
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1 from consolidation of ownership and from large
2 cutbacks.
3 713 Broadcasting throughout has become
4 less involved with hard news and investigation and with
5 public service. It has become more geared to
6 entertainment, more frivolous, much less informing or
7 educating. Sadly, it appears that broadcasting is
8 primarily intended to promote commercial films and
9 musical releases.
10 714 We suspect that the CBC is being made
11 less attractive on purpose. Government strategy seems
12 to be to make the CBC disappointing so that even its
13 strongest supporters who are represented here today
14 lose heart and say, "Well, if that's all there is, kill
15 it." Those with progressive views find that they are
16 losing the opportunity to express their opinions on a
17 neutered CBC that operates in fear of government's ire.
18 They will also say, "If that's all there is, let it
19 die."
20 715 We believe that the CBC did fulfil
21 its role as a national public broadcaster effectively
22 in the past. Now it's not as good as it might be. It
23 must restore effectiveness, especially with regard to
24 regional services.
25 716 Should CBC fulfil its role in a
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1 different manner with the coming of the millennium?
2 The CBC will find that it must be aware of changing
3 technology such as the Internet and that it must adapt
4 to these changes, but its basic mandate should be
5 unchanged. It appears that the famed Year 2000 will be
6 plagued with a heavy load of problems, economic,
7 political, technical as well as riots and wars. It is
8 not going to be a millennium, as you might expect.
9 717 A major consideration for the CBC in
10 Year 2000 will be to re-examine what is left of an
11 autonomous Canada and to determine what the CBC can do
12 to help to restore nationalhood. We have stressed the
13 failing of the CBC at the regional level. However, in
14 a rural province that is consolidating in every way,
15 regional broadcasting is essential.
16 718 CBC broadcasting should be different
17 from other broadcasters. It must serve to unite
18 Canadians, must help to maintain a Canadian perspective
19 and the Canadian identity. It must develop Canadian
20 broadcasting and performing talent. It must try to
21 unite French and English Canada. It must document and
22 demonstrate the place of aboriginal Canadians. Profit
23 cannot be the controlling guideline for such
24 broadcasting.
25 719 There is a continuing role just to do
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1 a good job of journalism and of broadcasting. There
2 are specific audiences that must be served, rural
3 Canada, minorities, interest groups, that require a
4 publicly financed broadcaster to meet their needs.
5 Those needs increase in a changing and consolidating
6 Canada. Canada can afford a reliable, authoritative
7 public broadcaster, a public broadcaster that is free
8 from government control but assured public funding. A
9 public broadcaster, not a state broadcaster or a
10 propagandist for government.
11 720 We must beware of those who argue for
12 the extinction of the CBC, that would expand the way
13 for those opposing the CBC to have their assumptions
14 and their opinions dominate our airwaves.
15 721 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
16 Mr. Bray.
17 --- Applause / Applaudissements
18 722 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Secretary.
19 1628
20 723 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
21 724 M. Marcel Michaud, s'il vous plaît.
22 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
23 725 M. MICHAUD: Madame la Présidente,
24 chers Membres du Conseil, mesdames et messieurs, un
25 grand merci de m'avoir permis aujourd'hui de venir ici
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1 et d'exprimer mes idées en ce qui a trait à la radio et
2 à la télévision française, mais aussi les quelques
3 références que je vais faire au CBC s'appliquent
4 également.
5 726 Je viens de Valbourg(ph), deux heures
6 de route d'ici et je travaille au Collège Mathieu, une
7 école privée résidentielle française, la seule et
8 unique dans l'ouest du Canada. Je suis venu aussi
9 aujourd'hui parce que moi aussi j'ai peur qu'on coupe
10 davantage ces services du côté anglais et
11 particulièrement du côté français.
12 727 Deux commentaires avant.
13 Aujourd'hui, la technologie ne nous permet pas de ne
14 pas avoir accès à la radio ou à la télévision. Il est
15 important que les gens soient branchés et qu'ils aient
16 les signaux auxquels ils ont droit. Je dis ça parce
17 que je viens de passer six ans dans le nord de
18 l'Alberta dans la région de Slave Lake et High Prairie
19 et ça été très frustrant pour moi de ne pas pouvoir
20 recevoir les signaux de la radio et de la télévision,
21 en particulier, parce que le patron de cablevision, et
22 j'ai vu ça aussi il y a à peu près un mois, en
23 Saskatchewan, où le patron avait coupé le câble. Donc,
24 on ne pouvait pas recevoir les signaux.
25 728 Ce n'est pas acceptable, de nos
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1 jours. On ne peut pas laisser passer ces choses car
2 les gens ont droit au moins à un service ou un minimum
3 de service, même si ce n'est qu'un service, un canal
4 sur 37. Ce n'est pas trop demandé.
5 729 Mais j'ai remarqué aussi au cours des
6 années une baisse remarquable en ce qui a trait aux
7 services, surtout locaux et régionaux. Je suis certain
8 qu'en majorité cette baisse a été le résultat de
9 coupures budgétaires mais aussi peut-être
10 philosophiques et d'orientation.
11 730 Mais personnellement, j'ai fait
12 l'expérience que ce n'est pas seulement ces coupures-là
13 qui affectent notre clientèle mais c'est la qualité de
14 la personnalité qui est à la radio, à la télévision, et
15 qui donne les services. Je peux parler par exemple
16 d'Allan Maitland ou Peter Gzowski ou Vicki Gabereau et
17 même "Les Impudences(ph)" de Michael Enright. Mais il
18 y a quand même une qualité qui est là et la qualité du
19 service de la personnalité qui est là est très
20 importante parce que cette qualité-là, surtout au
21 niveau local, au niveau régional, c'est ce qui fait
22 coller les gens. Quand le monsieur a parlé
23 justement... M. Cousins a parlé de la connection à la
24 communauté, c'est très important. Et donc, la
25 personnalité... être présent dans la communauté, c'est
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1 ce qui nous garde à l'écoute. Je peux parler de "Clan
2 destin". Je peux parler des "Gens" d'Anne Brochu
3 sur... Alors, ces gens-là doivent être à la
4 communauté. Ce sont des personnages qui doivent être
5 présents dans le local et être au sein de la communauté
6 qui donnent cette connection.
7 731 Je vois et je remarque, même à cause
8 des coupures, un dévouement extraordinaire chez le
9 personnel à l'intérieur de notre communauté
10 francophone. Je sais que souvent ces gens-là sont
11 emmerdants ou sont fatigants parce qu'ils osent nous
12 demander des questions qu'on n'ose même pas se poser
13 nous-mêmes. Mais néanmoins, on voit que malgré les
14 coupures énormes de la dernière décennie, ils ont su
15 bien choisir pour continuer à desservir une petite
16 population si fragile ici dans l'ouest et plus
17 particulièrement en Saskatchewan.
18 732 Parmi la programmation de la SRC, la
19 Société ici en Saskatchewan, et à cause du dévouement
20 de travail continu de ces gens-là et la raison de la
21 qualité, il y a une attention très claire qui ressort
22 parmi tout cela et c'est l'intérêt particulier et
23 sincère non seulement à la survie mais à
24 l'épanouissement de notre communauté francophone, et
25 malgré le peu de population, on essaie dans la mesure
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1 du possible de représenter et de faire valoir les
2 Fransaskois et les Fransaskoises.
3 733 Dans une situation minoritaire telle
4 que nous vivons où l'assimilation et la facilité
5 d'accès à l'information anglaise est à tous les coins
6 de rue, ce n'est pas facile de maintenir cette
7 présence, cet esprit, ce dévouement, sans partir au
8 désespoir. Est-ce que ça vaut la peine avec si peu de
9 gens? Croyez-moi, la radio et la télévision sont à la
10 croisière de notre survie.
11 734 Je vais vous dire pourquoi il est
12 tellement facile de ne plus être à l'écoute, parce
13 qu'essentiellement, il est trop facile de se tourner du
14 côté anglais, non seulement parce qu'on y retrouve
15 tellement de choses locales et en général on a besoin
16 de se renseigner, et lorsque la programmation nous
17 vient d'un coin du pays dont on connaît moins bien son
18 vécu, on a tendance de décrocher. C'est ce qui peut
19 facilement se faire lorsqu'il y a trop de programmation
20 qui nous provient de l'extérieur du Québec et de
21 l'Ontario.
22 735 Pour moi, au Collège Mathieu, pour
23 promouvoir le français dans un pays bilingue, il nous
24 faut de très bons services et dans notre local, la
25 programmation en français est essentielle. Alors, pour
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1 ne pas décrocher, il faut la qualité. Il faut
2 connaître les issues. Il faut connaître les gens avec
3 qui on travaille, les gens qui travaillent dans les
4 services.
5 736 Alors, pour ces raisons, j'aimerais
6 qu'on considère très sérieusement les points suivants
7 déterminant l'orientation de la Société Radio-Canada.
8 737 J'ai vécu de 1974 à 1978 en Allemagne
9 et là j'avais un ami qui venait du Québec. Je ne me
10 souviens pas de la date, mais lorsque Gordon Sinclair
11 est décédé, il ne savait même pas qui était Gordon
12 Sinclair. Pourtant, c'était un homme qui avait une
13 renommée; détesté ou aimé, ça ne fait rien. J'ai
14 réalisé à ce moment-là qu'on avait une issue d'unité
15 nationale qui nous manquait. On avait les différents
16 renseignements. Comment est-ce qu'on peut s'empêcher
17 d'avoir un pays uni quand on ne reconnaît même pas les
18 supposément héros ou les gens qui ont une certaine
19 réputation quand même?
20 738 Alors, c'est triste de voir ces
21 choses-là et je vois que la Société Radio-Canada c'est
22 l'instrument qu'il nous faut pour continuer à oeuvrer,
23 à unir notre pays, du côté francophone et du côté
24 anglophone, tout en respectant les services.
25 739 Donc, la Société Radio-Canada, le
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1 CRTC, les gouvernements et les pouvoirs visionnels
2 doivent reconnaître le rôle extrêmement difficile que
3 doit jouer Radio-Canada. Elle doit tout à la fois
4 maintenir une vision très claire de l'unité nationale.
5 Elle doit le faire en tenant les gens à travers le pays
6 à l'écoute de l'un et de l'autre, aux issues d'intérêt
7 à la fois national, régional et local. Sans cette
8 vision, elle est réduite à une société privée sujette à
9 l'influence de ceux qui paient la note, et si cela
10 arrive, on perdra beaucoup de notre identité canadienne
11 qui, elle aussi, est très fragile face à l'influence et
12 l'interférence du dollar américain.
13 740 La Société se doit aussi de maintenir
14 et d'épanouir la culture canadienne et plus
15 particulièrement de la francophonie. C'est cela qui
16 lui donne sa survie et maintient l'intérêt de son
17 public. Ce n'est pas la concurrence d'autres
18 entreprises mais plutôt sa vision. C'est la qualité
19 qui nous est propre, que les Canadiens peuvent donner,
20 et c'est l'âme de qui nous sommes. Dans le passé, on a
21 osé offrir des services très uniques. Ceci doit
22 continuer à se faire.
23 741 En anglais, il y a un dicton que
24 j'avais appris ça fait longtemps, puis je m'en suis
25 servi souvent:
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1 "If we think education is
2 expensive, we ought to try
3 ignorance."
4 742 Il est vrai que l'éducation d'un
5 peuple coûte cher, mais il faut savoir qu'un peuple
6 ignorant, peu renseigné, sans éducation, coûte encore
7 plus cher, que ce ne soit pas des coupures ou des
8 manques de finances qui changent son orientation.
9 743 La Société Radio-Canada devrait
10 s'occuper de répondre à sa clientèle canadienne avec du
11 contenu canadien. Ceci n'empêche aucunement d'avoir de
12 la programmation d'intérêt et d'éducation
13 internationale telle que des documentaires comme "Les
14 grands reportages", mais elle doit rester fidèle à sa
15 communauté.
16 744 Ce que nous recevons en ce moment en
17 programmation est le minimum qui puisse être fait à
18 notre communauté sans mettre encore plus en danger
19 cette petite communauté francophone déjà si fragile.
20 On ne peut plus souffrir d'autres coupures, soit
21 financières ou ressources humaines.
22 745 L'an 2000 devra voir à donner un
23 mandat spécifique à la Société Radio-Canada en ce qui a
24 trait aux services locaux et régionaux, tout en gardant
25 cette vision unique d'unité canadienne. On va en avoir
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1 besoin.
2 746 En beaucoup de sens, la Société de
3 CBC est au coeur de notre communauté. Il ne faut pas
4 perdre ça. La CBC est le coeur de la culture
5 anglophone ici au Canada. Il faut le garder ce coeur
6 et non pas tomber dans le mainstream tel que d'autres
7 essaient de faire. À travers la CBC, la Société
8 Radio-Canada devrait être à ma porte et la porte de
9 chacun de vous.
10 747 Je vous remercie de m'avoir permis de
11 vous adresser la parole aujourd'hui. J'en suis très
12 reconnaissant et j'espère que la Société Radio-Canada
13 aura toujours des gens de chez nous autant que des gens
14 d'ailleurs pour bâtir un meilleur Canada. Merci
15 beaucoup.
16 --- Applause / Applaudissements
17 748 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Merci,
18 Monsieur Michaud.
19 749 Mr. Secretary.
20 750 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
21 751 I would like to call the remaining
22 presenters we have this afternoon of a total of eight
23 more: Cathy and Andy Anderson, Olive Lukey,
24 Mary Yanko, John O'Donaghue, Tasha Hubbard,
25 Don Archbold, Marge Robinson, and Susan
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1 Hopkins-McQuarrie please.
2 752 If you wouldn't mind coming forward
3 to the front table.
4 753 Thank you.
5 754 THE CHAIRPERSON: Hello. We will
6 just take five minutes for everybody to get settled and
7 then we will start.
8 --- Recess / Pause
9 755 MR. LAHAY: (Off microphone/sans
10 microphone) presenters this afternoon. If we can ask
11 you to remember the 10-minute time limit, if you can,
12 please.
13 1648
14 756 Cathy and Andy Anderson, please.
15 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
16 757 MR. ANDERSON: Madam Chairman, thank
17 you for the opportunity.
18 758 I think one of the first comments I
19 would make is that the mind can only absorb what the
20 seat can endure, and I think the Commissioners have
21 done very well this afternoon.
22 759 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: You realize we
23 will be here until 10:00.
24 760 MR. ANDERSON: I realize that.
25 761 I'm going to keep it very short for
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1 myself and then Cathy will talk, and then we have to
2 leave immediately because she has a sick parent that we
3 have to move towards.
4 762 But on reflecting on the remarks of
5 the people that have made --
6 763 MR. LAHAY: Sir, could you speak up
7 please? They are signalling you.
8 764 MR. ANDERSON: Just some reflection
9 on the remarks of the presenters earlier this
10 afternoon.
11 765 Most of them I think have said what
12 we all tend to believe, that there is a need, an
13 essential need, for a strong public broadcasting system
14 in the country.
15 766 I think one of the things that struck
16 me about it was that there is a common theme that shows
17 while they are diverse in their interests there is that
18 need for public broadcasting committed to the promotion
19 of an intelligent, well-informed citizenry, and that
20 the CBC mandate clearly should not be considered to be
21 elitist, which is I think a very cheap shot by a lot of
22 critics who tend to think that simply because it
23 attempts to create a well-informed public that it is
24 somehow appealing to less than a majority of the
25 people. I think one of the things that also they do
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1 when they contribute to a well-informed public is that
2 they convey the values nationally and regionally
3 throughout the country.
4 767 Just an anecdote for the Commission.
5 I spent two years travelling this province for the
6 Canadian Taxpayers Federation as kind of a
7 semi-retirement activity of mine, and I was
8 particularly interested in finding out who were the
9 people who were in fact promoting, shall we say,
10 responsible or prudent financial management of the
11 resources of the country. I didn't know whether I
12 would be meeting people in rural and urban Saskatchewan
13 who were red necks or right wing or left wing or
14 whatever.
15 768 One of the things I found, from
16 sitting in about 2,000 farm kitchens over those two
17 years, is that CBC radio was the absolute standard of
18 listening in rural Saskatchewan. In many of the
19 businesses that I stopped to talk to about their
20 particular requirements, I found again comments where
21 there was -- and, again, it was a point -- there was
22 such an appeal to the radio that several of the
23 business people that I talked to mentioned that they
24 would have been very pleased to have been able to
25 advertise on CBC radio. It's a point that where the
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1 people listen, that's where business wants to be. Now,
2 that may go contrary to the grain of some of the
3 people, but it was an expression of interest.
4 769 So the questions that you asked, the
5 first question: How well does it serve the public? I
6 think obviously not as well as it could and should be
7 expected to.
8 770 The next question, the difference
9 between national and regional? I think it has been
10 conveyed to you very well, that regional has been
11 suffering.
12 771 The question that should be asked is:
13 How can you really serve the national interest if you
14 are not serving regional interests? Because, after
15 all, all national is is the synthesis of regional
16 activity and regional points of view.
17 772 When you think about what it should
18 be doing, sure it should be obviously different from
19 any other private broadcaster because, first of all,
20 they shouldn't be driven by the bottom line, a point
21 that was pointed out earlier.
22 773 One of the constant criticisms that's
23 coming from the United States these days is the dumbing
24 down of a nation through the constant lowering of
25 standards in television broadcasting. I think one of
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1 the things that we have to worry about in this country,
2 where we are so well spread out, is that we stay so
3 well informed so that we don't remain ignorant of the
4 aspirations and the needs of the diverse peoples that
5 make up this country of ours.
6 774 Finally, what should be a specific
7 role? I think one of the things that you want to
8 really avoid is what bureaucrats try to define.
9 775 If you talk about defining the
10 specific role of the CBC as a national public
11 broadcaster, then in fact you may be in danger of
12 limiting its ability to be flexible and reflect the
13 interests of the citizens of this country. I would say
14 that if you go forward to the government, you have to
15 put a strong case in front of them that there has to be
16 a great deal of flexibility for those creative people
17 who make up that kind of media to be able to respond to
18 those things and they need the resources to do that.
19 You simply cannot have creativity and flexibility on a
20 bare budget. I think all of us have to recognize that
21 if you are going to have a good national public system,
22 an average cost of $50 a year per citizen is not a high
23 price to pay.
24 776 I will pass the rest of this on to my
25 wife, Cathy.
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1 777 MRS. ANDERSON: Thank you for this
2 opportunity. I have never done this before and I'm
3 kind of scared.
4 778 Anyway. I'm a CBC baby, and I have
5 grown up, but in between those awful teenage years I
6 wasn't a CBC person. I hated it. I thought it was
7 yucky, but I came back. My kids thought it was yucky.
8 They are now older and they have come back.
9 779 So I think what you are doing is okay
10 because we do come back. It's like people going to
11 church. You know, you weave and you come back. It's
12 okay. You kind of get through that funny, muddly part.
13 780 Regarding local and regional
14 programming, in the Broadcasting Act the objects and
15 the powers in 46.3, it says:
16 "...to originate programs,
17 secure programs from within or
18 outside Canada by purchase,
19 exchange..." (As read)
20 781 Et cetera, et cetera:
21 "...and make arrangements
22 necessary for their
23 transmission." (As read)
24 782 That is not happening. We have had
25 two premiers and another one to come up in April and
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1 CBC, I think with the lack of funds, is not able to be
2 there. That is really sad because they were always
3 there when something new was going to happen, and I'm
4 talking mostly about music for that point, so it's
5 really sad.
6 783 The other thing is that I'm not much
7 of a TV watcher and I don't watch at supper time
8 because I'm busy making supper, but the 11:30 regional
9 news is so short and I'm getting older and 11:30 is
10 really getting late. So why don't we have Peter on at
11 10:00, and he gets it all just nice and then put our
12 regional on? Then if I want to go to bed or if I want
13 to listen to Peter again, it's okay. That's my little
14 thing.
15 784 We do have a wonderful broadcasting
16 centre. We have facilities. We did have staff. Let's
17 use it. It's not being used any more. It's criminal.
18 785 As far as the foreign bureaus, again
19 referring back to the Broadcasting Act, it says:
20 "...collect news relating to
21 current events in any part of
22 the world and establish and
23 subscribe to new agencies."
24 (As read)
25 786 Do not cut the foreign bureaus.
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1 Those are Canadian people, for the most part, talking
2 to Canadians. I don't want an American telling me,
3 otherwise I would have cable. I do not have cable.
4 787 CBC is like a community. It's kind
5 of funny when you talk to someone and you say, "Did you
6 hear Sheila this morning? Did you hear Colin? Did you
7 here whoever." Yes. But you don't hear them talking
8 about other radio stations, whatever else is on those
9 other ones. We have friends in Calgary and we are
10 talking back and forth, "Hey, did you hear such and
11 such on the radio" or "Did you see something on TV?"
12 788 It kind of blows your mind. We think
13 of it as our guys here, but it is all of Canada. And
14 we do talk to each other, but I think we have to talk
15 more.
16 789 A point. I don't know what the
17 weather is in Yellowknife. They never tell us. Our
18 national weather and it says Victoria, Vancouver, da,
19 da, da, da, da, never Yellowknife, Whitehorse. They
20 are part of Canada, too. I would like that on.
21 790 I think having it being on the
22 Internet is great. I can communicate to the media
23 people. I like doing that. It's quick and instead of
24 writing a letter and doing this scary stuff I can just
25 sit there and do it.
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1 791 As far as CBC, it creates so many
2 spin-offs that I don't think people really realize.
3 You are hearing about books, you are hearing about
4 music, you are hearing about art, you are hearing about
5 things that are going on in your community. People go
6 out and buy those books and buy those magazines and buy
7 that music and buy that CD. I just ordered it, too,
8 this week.
9 792 I have taken flute lessons because of
10 CBC. I have listened to the music and I go, "I just
11 love this. I have to learn this." So we are employing
12 people outside the periphery of CBC, so that those of
13 us who hear are employing other people. I don't know
14 if that's ever considered, but our voice does go out.
15 793 I have one comment to make and I
16 would urge you, the Commission, when you report to
17 Parliament, to reaffirm the mandate of the CBC and ask
18 them to please provide the necessary resources to
19 sustain the CBC on a stable, multi-year basis. They
20 can't go from day to day, month to month, year to year.
21 It's just ridiculous. There is no continuity and it's
22 very sad.
23 794 Thank you.
24 795 MR. ANDERSON: One last comment.
25 Mr. Lau had made the point that the CBC is a public
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1 trust and as a consequence another comment had been
2 made that it was a corporation like any other
3 corporation. The labels that the politicians or people
4 give the CBC I think tend to get in the way of
5 recognizing that the CBC is in obligatory response.
6 Politically, people have an obligatory response to a
7 national public radio system or media system, and I
8 think that has to be reinforced.
9 796 Thank you very much.
10 797 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
11 Mr. and Mrs. Anderson.
12 798 Mr. Secretary.
13 799 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
14 1653
15 800 Olive Lukey, please.
16 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
17 801 MS LUKEY: Madam Chair,
18 Commissioners, ladies and gentlemen.
19 802 Olive Lukey speaking for herself, and
20 many people before me have spoken much more delicately
21 about what I feel. I have one thing to say and that's
22 all.
23 803 We talk about telling Canadians who
24 we are. Remember the people who travel through our
25 country on the roads listening to CBC. They also know
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1 who we are, and I'm proud of what we are saying.
2 804 Thank you.
3 805 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
4 Ms Lukey.
5 806 Mr. Secretary.
6 807 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
7 1655
8 808 John O'Donaghue, please.
9 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
10 809 MR. O'DONAGHUE: Pardon?
11 810 MR. LAHAY: Can you turn your
12 microphone on, please. Speak into your microphone.
13 811 Thank you.
14 812 MR. O'DONAGHUE: Should I shut it
15 off?
16 813 MR. LAHAY: No, because we have no
17 way of transcribing it if you do that.
18 814 MR. O'DONAGHUE: Okay.
19 815 MR. LAHAY: Thank you.
20 816 MR. O'DONAGHUE: (Foreign
21 language/Langue étrangère). That's welcome to
22 Saskatchewan.
23 817 Next Wednesday half the world will be
24 celebrating St. Patrick's Day. It is my fervent wish
25 that the CBC takes no part in those celebrations. I
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1 ask that because of the unhappy experience we had last
2 year when the leading male star of the Morning Show
3 came out with three hours of infantile nonsense,
4 offensive nonsense. It's a unique occasion.
5 818 It is also a unique location. I'm
6 not referring to Saskatchewan itself but to the
7 electronic ether overhead. It's really hilarious when
8 you think of the following.
9 819 The CBC can pour forth all sorts of
10 vulgarities and four-letter words, and as recently as
11 last Sunday, but an unfortunate, maybe foul-mouthed but
12 good natured, truck driver was charged recently and
13 faced imprisonment and a fine of up to $500 for using
14 the "f" word in the hope of warning his colleagues
15 about certain very dangerous stretches of the highway
16 down near Broadview. Anyway, that's just vulgarity.
17 820 But what I would like to talk about
18 is blasphemy. I have heard the words "community" and
19 "service" and "satisfaction", satisfying people. But
20 here is an extract from a broadcast on December
21 the 23rd, 1995, two days before the Christian feast of
22 Christmas. This allegedly comic blasphemous skit on
23 the nativity referred to our revered mother of God
24 as -- I won't repeat it. It starts with a "v" --
25 "v" challenged. Kindness might prompt me to suggest
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1 that the people in CBC responsible for that were all
2 intellectually challenged.
3 821 Anyway, I immediately lodged a
4 protest with CBC and asked for the name of the
5 offending comic. At the same time, I wrote to CRTC,
6 informing them and asking for their help. Three years
7 of voluminous contribution of correspondence produced
8 nothing, nothing as to the identity of this hilarious
9 comic.
10 822 Fortunately -- well, sadly, it was a
11 little sad -- recently I got an anonymous call from an
12 employee of CRTC and this employee expressed great
13 sympathy with me and sympathized with the way my
14 request had been handled. After three years of
15 refusal, the CRTC telling me "We haven't got the
16 information", and the CBC saying "It's not your
17 business. We have lost the file", et cetera, et
18 cetera, this employee said, "Well, if you are still
19 interested in knowing the name of the guy, his name is
20 Broadbose(ph), David Broadbose."
21 823 Now, it is ridiculous that a member
22 of the public who wishes to object to a particular
23 program should be denied that information for as long
24 as three years -- well, two.
25 824 On January the 8th, 1997, CBC radio's
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1 Morning Edition in Regina broadcast another comic skit
2 on the sacraments of reconciliation and holy communion,
3 sacraments dear to the heart of many, many, many
4 Christians, many Christians. Even crude schoolboys,
5 which you come across occasionally, wouldn't, in days
6 gone by, have dreamt of any such thing.
7 825 Here is the quote:
8 "Get in line in that
9 processional. Step into that
10 small confessional. Dare the
11 guy who's got religion to tell
12 you if your sin's original. If
13 it's not, try playing it safer.
14 Drink the wine and chew the
15 wafer. Two, four, six, eight,
16 time to trans-substantiate."
17 (As read)
18 826 What ignoramus came along with that
19 broadcast? What ignoramus or ignorama allowed this to
20 come out over the air when trans-substantiation is the
21 very essence of some religions?
22 827 I don't know how many -- what
23 population of Canada can be regarded as Christians. We
24 cannot get the information from Statistics Canada.
25 Apparently, they are too busy counting up the number of
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1 micrograms of microtrash the Regina householders and
2 other householders in 27 other cities throw out every
3 year or every week or every day. But it is a big
4 majority. CBC has offended a lot of people. A
5 majority of Canadians have been offended by some of
6 these broadcasts.
7 828 In conclusion -- beautiful words --
8 in conclusion, a particularly annoying -- I'm speaking
9 personally -- a particularly annoying factor in all
10 this is that Christians and Christians alone appear to
11 be the subject of all this ridicule. You won't hear
12 about the deities or the divinities of any other
13 religion, at least I have not heard it. What is the
14 explanation? Is it that the people in CBC who are
15 responsible for these broadcasts are nervous of some
16 sort of personal, physical retribution?
17 829 If I may put it this way: I think
18 so. I believe that they would be scared shitless to
19 come out with such criticism about any other religion.
20 I apologize for the crude expression I used there, but
21 obviously I have been listening to the CBC too much.
22 830 Thank you very much.
23 831 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
24 Mr. O'Donaghue.
25 832 Mr. Secretary.
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1 833 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
2 1705
3 834 Tasha Hubbard, please.
4 --- Off microphone / Sans microphone
5 835 MR. LAHAY: I'm sorry, would you turn
6 on your microphone please, Ms Hubbard.
7 836 MS HUBBARD: I'm sorry.
8 837 MR. LAHAY: Thank you.
9 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
10 838 MS HUBBARD: I'm speaking on behalf
11 of Doug Cuthand(ph) and myself from Blue Hill
12 Productions. Basically a lot of this is something that
13 Doug and I have come up with, and then I have a little
14 bit of my own to add.
15 839 We at Blue Hill Productions would
16 like to express our support for public broadcasting and
17 the important role the CBC has played in Canada over
18 the years.
19 840 As Canadians, we have become more
20 informed and better educated because we have had the
21 benefit of a national broadcaster with a public
22 mandate.
23 841 This month we are witnessing the
24 birth of another public broadcaster, the Aboriginal
25 Peoples Television Network or APTN. This new network
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1 will be carried on basic cable and will be a new voice
2 for aboriginal people.
3 842 While we look forward to our own
4 channel, we know that CBC will remain the choice of
5 many viewers and continue to hold its audience share.
6 We therefore caution the CBC that they have an
7 important mandate to reflect the regions and people of
8 this country. Just because we now have the APTN, this
9 fact does not diminish the importance of CBC. In fact,
10 CBC must increase its programming to aboriginal people.
11 843 In Saskatchewan we are 15 per cent of
12 the current population and growing quickly. We are a
13 young population with over half of our people under the
14 age of 18. This fact indicates that Saskatchewan is
15 moving into a period of rapid change, and with the
16 possibility of increased racial tension now, more than
17 any time in our history, we need a strong public
18 broadcaster to fairly present the issues and educate
19 the public.
20 844 Currently, there is only one regional
21 television news magazine on aboriginal issues that is
22 produced in Saskatchewan. This is Indigenous Circle
23 produced by the CTV network. This program has been
24 around for five years and is currently seen by about
25 50,000 viewers weekly. This may not seem like much to
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1 regions such as Ontario, but in a small market like
2 Saskatchewan it is significant. We recommend that the
3 CBC proceed to establish a regional program that meets
4 the needs of Saskatchewan people.
5 845 This past year the CBC has sat on a
6 proposal to produce a national aboriginal news magazine
7 called All My Relations. A group of aboriginal
8 producers in Vancouver came up with the idea and some
9 pilot episodes were produced a year ago. Today -- now,
10 this is as of a few days ago -- today the producers are
11 still waiting for approval to proceed with the
12 excellent series and to date no answer has been
13 received, although I'm hearing rumours that that might
14 have changed.
15 846 The aboriginal staff at CBC here in
16 Saskatchewan have suffered the worst at the hands of
17 the budget cuts. Currently, there are three aboriginal
18 staff members at the CBC in Saskatchewan. With a
19 regional staff of about 200, we should have at least
20 30 aboriginal staff members if we are to achieve
21 parity. We realize that budget cutbacks have made this
22 difficult, but we do have many young people graduating
23 from journalism school, audiovisual programs and other
24 related courses and at a time when we need to play a
25 greater role we have been left on the sidelines.
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1 847 Blue Hill Productions was very
2 fortunate this summer to be one of the producers of the
3 CBC miniseries Big Bear, and this ground-breaking
4 series was crewed by members of Canada's three founding
5 entities: First Nation, Francophone, Anglophone. The
6 result, in the words of one CBC employee, was magic on
7 the prairie, and Big Bear stands as an example of what
8 can be achieved when people work together and respect
9 each other and their craft.
10 848 We are witnessing the rapid growth of
11 aboriginal cultural industries. Big Bear was directed,
12 produced, crewed and cast with a high percentage of
13 aboriginal people. This goes to show we do have talent
14 and we do have the stories to tell.
15 849 This is where I'm breaking off a
16 little bit. As an expiring young documentary
17 filmmaker, I do have the CBC to thank. I did begin my
18 career with Big Bear and it was quite rewarding to see
19 the results of many, many, many hours of hard work on
20 the screen. But it was also very gratifying to see it
21 on CBC, which is basically the network I grew up with
22 as a young farm kid growing up in southern
23 Saskatchewan. But Big Bear also afforded me the
24 opportunity to hear about my history. I was adopted
25 out at the age of three months and grew up in a
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1 non-native community. Big Bear marked my journey back
2 and my exploration into my ancestries and my history
3 and my family.
4 850 My birth father is from Thunderchild
5 First Nation, and actually at my age was working for
6 the CBC in radio as co-host of Our Native Land with
7 Bernaldo Weiler(ph). He was I think at the time the
8 only broadcaster actually speaking Cree and that was
9 back in the seventies, which was a decade that a lot of
10 efforts were put into the rejuvenation of the Cree
11 language. I'm happy to say, although I don't speak it,
12 there is a new generation that's coming along that do.
13 851 I live in Saskatoon and I'm actually
14 in Regina this week to work for the National Aboriginal
15 Achievement Awards, which is happening tomorrow night,
16 and actually they are going to be wondering where I am.
17 I said I would only be gone an hour and I have been
18 gone for two and a half, but that's okay.
19 852 This is the sixth annual awards
20 happening and the past five shows have been broadcast
21 on CBC. I want to I guess emphasize the impact that
22 these awards have on our community. There was actually
23 an article in the Globe and Mail today, the headline
24 was "Where Have All the Native Pop Stars Gone?" and the
25 reporter criticized the awards because the recipients
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1 did not have recognition nationally, which in my
2 opinion completely misses the point of the awards in
3 that this is an opportunity to bring attention to some
4 very special people out there, to both the aboriginal
5 community and non-aboriginal community. This I guess
6 only happens when things like the awards are actually
7 broadcast on CBC.
8 853 Often it seems as though positive
9 images in the media are few and far between of
10 aboriginal people, and broadcasts that showcase this,
11 such as the awards, have an amazing impact. I know
12 this firsthand by watching the kids that are involved
13 with the awards and what it means to them to be
14 involved with something like that. I have 13 brothers
15 and sisters and I know they are going to be at home
16 watching those awards when they are hopefully broadcast
17 in April.
18 854 That's my part. I will go back to
19 our joint statement.
20 855 We do find it disturbing that there
21 is no new aboriginal drama being produced for CBC
22 television. North of 60 and The Reds provided a look
23 at First Nations' people and their communities. Now
24 they are off the air and basically it seems as though a
25 part of our national character is missing.
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1 856 As First Nations, we need to
2 communicate with all the people that are living in
3 Saskatchewan and Canada. Racism and intolerance thrive
4 in a climate of misunderstanding and fear of the
5 unknown. The CBC has an important role as a national
6 public broadcaster to work to help create a climate of
7 understanding between people.
8 857 Saskatchewan is unique in Canada and
9 we have a long history of public endeavour. We have a
10 history of overcoming adversity as well. We also have
11 the largest percentage of aboriginal people in the
12 country. As a province, it's necessary that we work
13 together to meet the needs of a changing society, and
14 we do want the CBC with us while we do that.
15 858 Thank you very much.
16 --- Applause / Applaudissements
17 859 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
18 Ms Hubbard.
19 860 Could you just turn off the
20 microphone.
21 861 MS HUBBARD: Yes.
22 862 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Secretary.
23 863 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
24 1715
25 864 Don Archbold, please.
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1 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
2 865 MR. ARCHBOLD: Good afternoon. A
3 late afternoon. Not much of a crowd here now.
4 866 I'll just introduce myself. I'm the
5 General Manager of Sask Film, which is the provincial
6 funding agency that's charged with the responsibility
7 of investing in projects and developing projects, and
8 CBC is one of the entities that we deal with.
9 867 I have already dropped off a prepared
10 statement and I'm just going to speak to that and try
11 and keep my comments as brief as I can.
12 868 I have outlined in the statement a
13 few concerns that we do have about the CBC.
14 869 I'm in somewhat a unique situation.
15 Not only am I currently running a funding agency but I
16 started off in this business as a composer. I wrote
17 music for CBC radio dramas and TV and jazz Radio-Canada
18 programs, and then I evolved into a writer/producer/
19 director and had a national TV series that ran on CBC,
20 so I have had a number of experiences with them on many
21 different levels, some fantastic and some agonizing.
22 870 I would like to say that currently in
23 Saskatchewan the amount of indigenous production that's
24 taking place, there are only two other provinces in the
25 country that are doing more than we are and that is
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1 Quebec and Ontario. If the Americans were to pull up
2 ranks and head south, our industry is well positioned
3 to continue on. We did over $50 million worth of
4 business last year in this province in the film and
5 television industry and the majority of that is and was
6 with indigenous projects.
7 871 We only had what would be considered
8 two service projects out of that which was a small
9 amount of that total, which says a great deal about the
10 producers in this particular province who are extremely
11 active. You will be hearing from them later and I'm
12 sure they will make their own comments in regards to
13 their particular feelings about the CBC.
14 872 We have a very active community. We
15 have a vital community. We have incredibly talented
16 writers. The Governor General's Award has been won
17 twice in the last four years by Saskatchewan writers.
18 Yet, the CBC and Saskatchewan is managed by a part-time
19 regional director who, as talented and as gifted as she
20 is, has been charged with I think an impossible task of
21 trying to run an organization, not just a facility but
22 meeting with the demands and needs of the production
23 communities of two very vital provinces, Manitoba and
24 Saskatchewan, who have both seen enormous increases in
25 their production levels in the last few years, which
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1 leads to we have an individual who shows up for two
2 days a week. It's very difficult for our producers to
3 attach themselves to meetings with that individual
4 because of all the other demands.
5 873 Now, that being said, that individual
6 has the right to look at and okay certain types of
7 documentary projects, but when it comes to larger
8 budget dramatic series or movies of the week, there is
9 nobody, no broadcaster, CTV, CanWest Global or CBC, who
10 has any representative in the province that can
11 actually sit down, work with me through the development
12 stages on a project and get it to the point of
13 production and make a decision to proceed with it.
14 874 After we work through the development
15 of a project, it gets shipped off to somebody in
16 Toronto, we don't even know who it is or have been
17 given any indication of who that individual might be,
18 and our producers have an incredibly difficult time in
19 getting the licensing fees that our counterparts in
20 Toronto and Montreal, who are right at the door have
21 much easier access.
22 875 That being said, the case used to be
23 the -- you know, there isn't the quality of production,
24 the quality of producers, the quality of people out
25 there to do things on a national broadcast standard.
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1 That may have been true five, six years ago.
2 876 Two weeks ago a Saskatchewan-produced
3 movie, which is a wonderful family movie called Summer
4 of the Monkeys was the number one video rental in the
5 United States. This week it's number four. The CBC
6 was not involved, could have been involved, but they
7 weren't.
8 877 There are other projects. We
9 currently have a series that we developed that is
10 running on YTV that the CBC could have been involved
11 in, but chose not to. It's one of their top shows.
12 It's just been sold to Discovery in the United States.
13 It has been picked up by Disney in Europe. These are
14 things that we have produced and created and developed
15 indigenously and without any CBC involvement. They are
16 being accepted on a world scale and yet our producers
17 have an impossible time trying to get the ear of
18 anybody at CBC in Toronto. It's a very frustrating
19 situation and we would certainly like to see and
20 encourage that if they are to revisit part of their
21 mandate.
22 878 Certainly everyone has talked about
23 the necessity of strengthening a regional presence.
24 The fact is that we would love to see that. We would
25 love to have somebody assigned to the province who can
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1 actually make decisions, who we can go to and say, "We
2 have this great project here. Can you give us a
3 licensing fee", and they will understand us and know
4 where we are coming from and have some history of the
5 producer with the deadlines that are set for them to
6 deal with the CTF.
7 879 We have been having great luck with
8 some of the other broadcasters, but very little luck
9 with the CBC, even though two of the CBC's premier
10 series that will run this year, Big Bear which has
11 already run and Revenge of the Land, were shot here.
12 The principal production companies were both from
13 Montreal. Our producers could not attach themselves to
14 the projects to get them made without a co-producing
15 partner from Montreal. We have the people that are
16 quite capable of doing it, but I guess there are still
17 factions that believe we can't.
18 880 In doing this, and in making these
19 decisions, obviously we have a vital community that's
20 doing lots, there is going to be even more production
21 this year. We want to have the CBC involved. They are
22 involved in documentary production and are a welcome
23 partner and we want to work with them and have a great
24 relationship with them. We just hope that they can
25 reorganize themselves in such a fashion as to address
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1 the needs of each region, not just Saskatchewan, but I
2 know Manitoba has the same problem, Alberta has the
3 same problem, B.C. has the same problem.
4 881 Basically, the only people that don't
5 have the problems that we do are the Toronto-based
6 producers and the Montreal-based producers. So I'm
7 sure as you travel across Canada you will hear a lot of
8 the same thing.
9 882 Just in closing, I would like to
10 thank you for the opportunity -- to sit here after a
11 long day so far and a much longer one yet to come -- to
12 express ourselves and make our views known.
13 883 We are certainly in support of the
14 CBC. We want to see it continue. They have been
15 handed, as you have heard from the varying points of
16 view from many people here, an incredible task of
17 trying to please everyone. It's something that is
18 impossible, as we all know, but they have been trying
19 many different things and hopefully they can focus in
20 on something that will be much more effective than what
21 we currently have. We certainly welcome them back in a
22 much stronger way to Saskatchewan.
23 884 Thank you very much.
24 885 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
25 Mr. Archbold.
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1 886 Mr. Secretary.
2 887 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
3 1721
4 888 Marge Robinson, please.
5 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
6 889 MS ROBINSON: Hello. I realized I
7 could come here when I heard Madam Chairperson being
8 interviewed this morning, so I quickly dressed and I
9 came this afternoon.
10 890 I had memories -- everybody's sort of
11 nostalgia, and of course growing up everybody remembers
12 Hockey Night in Canada, Lux Radio Theatre, and as a
13 child in World War II, I remember the grave faces of my
14 parents and grandparents as they listened to the nine
15 o'clock news. Though we didn't understand all the
16 aspects of the war, the wins and the losses, we
17 certainly understood that this was a matter of life and
18 death.
19 891 I'm here representing myself and my
20 family. I'm employed in the field of social work, but
21 I'm not coming in that aspect. I am coming here to
22 express my concerns on the dark side of the CBC and I'm
23 going to speak just from my personal experience.
24 892 I'm concerned about the lack of
25 respect and the erosion of ethical and broadcasting
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1 standards. I feel that many times the CBC tramples on
2 my civil rights and tramples on my values and beliefs
3 as a Canadian citizen.
4 893 I have only chosen in this short time
5 two examples. One is a thing that was previously
6 mentioned by another presenter.
7 894 In January of 1997 on the Sheila
8 Cole's Show by request by some caller a song was
9 presented called the Vatican Rag. Now, everybody
10 talked about Canadian content and Canadian music, but
11 this is an American who sings this, full of bias and
12 bigotry against Catholics. I have included a copy of
13 that song. But the gist of the song was that -- it was
14 mockery of everything Catholics believe: rosaries,
15 prayer, our eucharist, our reconciliation, the sign of
16 the cross. I couldn't believe it was the CBC. This
17 was apparently enjoyed by the host of the show.
18 895 I phoned in a concern to the producer
19 and it just was dismissed as being irrelevant. I did
20 write a letter, several letters, and I have in front of
21 me a copy of one of the letters that I received from
22 one of the executives of the CBC in Regina complaining
23 about it. One of the sentences is:
24 "Personally, I have several
25 friends and acquaintances who
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1 find this piece very amusing.
2 Obviously, there are differences
3 in opinion." (As read)
4 896 It was further explained that
5 Mark Russell in the United States frequently satires
6 his robide(ph) satire on these and other communities.
7 Now, I'm not an American citizen. I'm a Canadian
8 citizen. If I was an American I could protest to the
9 sponsor and I could say "I'm not buying your product
10 any more" and it would give me some idea of power.
11 897 I had heard many people say that the
12 CBC represents the best in Canadian society and it
13 unites the country. When I had brought forth this idea
14 that I always had about the CBC, the answer I have in
15 this letter, it says:
16 "The CBC does not purport to
17 represent the best in Canadian
18 society, nor is it our mandate
19 to unite all Canadians. It is
20 our mandate, in part, to reflect
21 the various aspects of Canadian
22 society and in doing so
23 contribute to a more and
24 complete and better
25 understanding of Canada by
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1 Canadians." (As read)
2 898 I think CBC has to not only talk the
3 talk but to walk the walk.
4 899 The other example is from the
5 television and the program that I find that myself, my
6 friends and a lot of the community that I belong to
7 find offensive is the showing of Father Ted. Now, this
8 was not a Canadian -- I mean, we are talking about
9 Canadian content. This is a program that was imported
10 from the British Isles and it depicts Catholic clergy,
11 Catholic church services in a very degrading and vulgar
12 way.
13 900 What is the purpose of it? Like,
14 what is the problem or what is the purpose of putting
15 these programs on? I don't understand it.
16 901 Now, the CBC ombudsman quickly ducked
17 behind that the song was from Vatican II, it was an
18 expression of somebody's response from Vatican II, and
19 also that if I found that offensive I could have turned
20 the radio off or I can turn the TV off. You know, I
21 find that is, for somebody who is to represent the
22 listener, a very shallow answer.
23 902 Now, there are many nice things about
24 CBC. There are many good things.
25 903 What recommendations do I have? I
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1 would say that perhaps the broadcasting, the
2 broadcasters, the CBC, could train, could educate,
3 could be accountable for what they put on which offends
4 Canadians, which offends a large portion of the
5 community I represent in spirit. Are we not entitled
6 to receive respect or to not have our civil liberties
7 trampled on? All I ask is that CBC be more accountable
8 to the way they portray my religion to the rest of
9 Canada, and to be more accountable and to be more
10 sensitive and to have more respect for their own
11 citizens.
12 904 I'm a taxpayer and in some ways I
13 resent supporting somebody who insults me and somebody
14 who promotes bigotry. I'm forced to support that and I
15 have no recourse. If I do make a complaint to CRTC, I
16 get a polite letter to say, "Yes, we have considered
17 it. Your letter will be put on file."
18 905 So these are my concerns. I know
19 that any time you spread ignorance it does not benefit
20 any of us. These are my concerns and I'm glad I had
21 the opportunity to express them.
22 906 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
23 Ms Robinson.
24 --- Applause / Applaudissements
25 907 THE CHAIRPERSON: I believe that
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1 concludes the presenters for this afternoon.
2 908 I'm told that CBC of course is
3 entitled to their rebuttal and I'm told that they don't
4 require any time to prepare. Is that correct?
5 --- Off microphone / Sans microphone
6 909 THE CHAIRPERSON: I'm afraid I don't
7 know you, so if you could just give your name, please.
8 1730
9 910 Thank you.
10 REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
11 911 MR. GERALD: Thank you,
12 Commissioner Cram and Commissioner Wylie.
13 912 My name is Bill Gerald. I'm the
14 Regional Director of Radio for CBC Saskatchewan.
15 913 Also here with me is René Fontaine
16 who is the Director of French radio for Saskatchewan,
17 and Lionel Bonneville who is the Director of French
18 television in the province. He is also representing
19 Jane Chalmers who is the Director of English television
20 who unfortunately cannot be here because of some
21 pressing family matters.
22 914 In addition, our two Vice-Presidents
23 on the English side, Alex Frame for radio and Harold
24 Redekopp for television, were here today. They have
25 now returned to Toronto for other business.
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1 915 Our role here has been to listen
2 because the views, the opinions of the citizens of
3 Saskatchewan, are indeed very important to us.
4 916 Several presenters this afternoon
5 have referred to Saskatchewan as being a province that
6 defines and reflects what Canada is all about, and we
7 certainly don't disagree with that. We hope indeed
8 that they will find that CBC radio and television
9 services will continue to support that sense of unique
10 Canadian culture in the future.
11 917 We have been taking notes through the
12 course of the afternoon and we will be following up on
13 them. In fact, where possible, we intend to respond
14 directly to each individual who has taken the time and
15 effort to make a presentation and indeed I guess they
16 have all left the room now, but indeed --
17 --- Off microphone / Sans microphone
18 918 MR. GERALD: Oh, yes. Thank you.
19 919 And our heartfelt thanks goes out to
20 all those individuals for their suggestions throughout
21 the afternoon, their constructive criticism and indeed
22 their support of public broadcasting.
23 920 Most of all, we thank them for their
24 interest and concern for the CBC and what it means to
25 them as Canadians. We heard a lot of people speaking
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1 from the heart. They spoke with conviction and
2 passion. There was thoughtful reflection. We
3 certainly appreciate that.
4 921 Many of the issues raised here today
5 are being addressed to the CBC's licence renewal
6 process. There are issues. I will just enumerate a
7 few including: local and international news coverage;
8 the level of production in the regions; clearly, the
9 reflection of Saskatchewan, and for that matter, other
10 regions of the country; the reflection of aboriginal
11 stories particularly, an issue that is of obvious
12 importance in context here in this province;
13 programming for different age groups; and, interactive
14 programming. We have heard quite a bit today and quite
15 a bit of enthusiasm for embracing new media, the
16 Internet. Another theme that has been struck is the
17 whole notion of reaching out and engaging various
18 organizations and individuals in partnerships.
19 922 Those are obviously matters of
20 importance to those people, as they are to us. We will
21 be using the licence renewal process to confirm our
22 continuing commitment to local and foreign issues, to
23 the maintenance of regional radio programming
24 throughout the day for fair, independent and
25 investigated journalism and our commitment to Canadian
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1 talent and indeed the wealth of Saskatchewan talent on
2 the music and dramatic side and spoken word through
3 independent producers in Saskatchewan, artists here.
4 923 CBC has made significant efforts to
5 make itself more accessible and accountable to the
6 people of Canada in recent years through regular public
7 accountability forums, one which was held in Regina
8 last November. There was a recent phone-in on the
9 Saskatchewan Noon Edition with the President of the
10 CBC, and of course there have been the annual on-air
11 reviews.
12 924 In January, you may recall that so
13 many Canadians called in to participate in the
14 television open-line program with CBC leaders that we
15 extended that program by a full hour in order to
16 accommodate all the callers.
17 925 So we intend to continue and increase
18 in fact the efforts in public accountability in the
19 future because several presenters have made clear today
20 our listeners and viewers want a say in the future of
21 their CBC, including this person that is calling my
22 cell phone at the moment.
23 926 So, just in closing, Commissioners, I
24 would just like to say again, thanks for the
25 opportunity to hear directly from Canadians and what
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1 they think about CBC English and French radio and
2 television services. We are determined to do
3 everything we can to earn and deserve the support of
4 the citizens of Saskatchewan in the future. We are
5 also committed to best address the concerns which have
6 been raised here today.
7 927 So on behalf of my colleagues here,
8 thank you very much for this opportunity.
9 928 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
10 Mr. Gerald.
11 929 MR. GERALD: Thank you.
12 930 THE CHAIRPERSON: We will be
13 reconvening on or about 6:00 p.m. tonight.
14 --- Recess at 1736 / Suspension à 1736
15 --- Upon resuming at 1814 / Reprise à 1814
16 931 THE CHAIRPERSON: Hello. We will be
17 reconvening.
18 932 Good evening, ladies and gentlemen,
19 and welcome to this public consultation on the CBC.
20 933 Bonsoir, mesdames et messieurs.
21 Bienvenue à cette consultation publique.
22 934 My name is Barbara Cram and I am a
23 Commissioner on the CRTC. I am a Regional Commissioner
24 responsible for Manitoba and Saskatchewan.
25 935 To my left is Andrée Wylie. She is
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1 the CRTC's Vice-Chair of Broadcasting.
2 936 We are here to gather your views and
3 comments on CBC radio and television.
4 937 In your opinion, how should the
5 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation fulfil its role in
6 the coming years?
7 938 The CBC is a national public service,
8 broadcasting in English as well as in French. It plays
9 an important role in the Canadian broadcasting system.
10 Today, many elements are constantly being added to the
11 broadcasting system as well as technologies
12 multiplying, converging, opening up new horizons and
13 increasingly offering new services. In this context,
14 we want to know what your needs and expectations as
15 viewers and listeners of the CBC are.
16 939 Given that, it is important that the
17 Commission hears what you have to say. We must not
18 lose sight of the fact that the CRTC is a public
19 organization that serves Canadian citizens. In this
20 capacity, we are responsible to you. This is why my
21 fellow Commissioners and myself find it vital to come
22 and meet with you and to discuss these issues and why
23 we are holding this series of regional consultations,
24 from one end of the country to the other, in
25 11 Canadian cities from March 9th to 18th.
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1 940 Ces consultations vous donnent
2 l'occasion de nous faire part de votre opinion sur le
3 rôle de Radio-Canada, le genre d'émissions qu'elle vous
4 propose et l'orientation qu'elle devrait se donner à la
5 veille du nouveau millénaire aussi bien à l'échelle
6 nationale qu'aux échelles régionale et locale. Ces
7 consultations se font dans l'esprit d'établir avec vous
8 un dialogue ouvert et d'être à l'écoute de vos
9 préoccupations. Tous vos commentaires feront partie du
10 dossier public. Il sera lui-même ajouté à celui de
11 l'audience public qui s'ouvrira à Hull le 25 mai
12 prochain.
13 941 At the upcoming hearing in Hull on
14 May 25, the Commission will examine the CBC's
15 application for the renewal of its licences including
16 radio, television and its specialty services, Newsworld
17 and Réseau de l'information. You can also take part in
18 that public hearing by sending your written comments to
19 the CRTC. If you wish to do so, please remember to
20 refer to the specific licence renewals being examined
21 when you file your comments.
22 942 Now I would like to come back to
23 today. Please allow me to introduce the CRTC staff who
24 will be assisting us today: Peter McCallum, to my left
25 is our legal counsel; Rod Lahay, to my right, is from
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1 our Broadcasting Planning Services; at the door you met
2 Gary Krushen, the Director of our Winnipeg Regional
3 Office. Please feel free to call on them with any
4 questions you may have about the process today or any
5 other matter.
6 943 So that you will all have the
7 opportunity to speak, we ask that you please limit your
8 presentation to 10 minutes. As these consultations are
9 a forum designed especially for you and we want to
10 listen to as many participants as possible, we will not
11 ask any questions unless we need clarification.
12 944 At the end of the session,
13 representatives from the local CBC stations will have a
14 chance to offer their views as they are naturally very
15 interested by the issues we are discussing here today.
16 945 Before we start, I would ask
17 Mr. Lahay, who will be the Secretary of our session, to
18 go over some of the housekeeping matters regarding the
19 conduct of this consultation. Avant de vous céder le
20 micro, je demanderais au secrétaire de vous indiquer la
21 marche à suivre.
22 946 MR. LAHAY: Thank you,
23 Commissioner Cram.
24 947 Just a few items to bring to your
25 attention. We do have translation services over here.
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1 English on Channel 1, French on Channel 2, and they ask
2 that you do provide a driver's licence or a major
3 credit card which would be returned to you at the end
4 of the evening for the listening device.
5 948 We will be conducting breaks
6 throughout this evening's presentations and we will
7 announce them at that time.
8 949 There is a comment sheet on the
9 outside desk when you came into the room. We would
10 appreciate any comments you might have on the process
11 or any questions that you might have or suggestions or
12 improvements.
13 950 Also, for those people who have not
14 spoken before, the microphone does have a white button
15 that has to be pushed before you can talk. We ask that
16 you do make sure you are on mike because that's the
17 only way the translation services will have to keep an
18 official record of our proceedings tonight.
19 951 Once again I reiterate the time frame
20 for 10 minutes please. If you could stay with that, we
21 have 25 presenters tonight, so we can carry on and have
22 a chance to listen to everybody.
23 952 Thank you very much.
24 953 I would like to call, in groups, the
25 first 10 presenters tonight, if you wouldn't mind
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1 coming forward here as I call your name, and we will
2 take you in that order for 10 minutes per person.
3 Thank you.
4 954 Brenda Baker or Bruce Rice;
5 John W. Haskey; Ron Clark; Dan Cameron; Lucy Eley;
6 Susie Matthews; Kevin DeWalt; Robert Waldegger; and,
7 Raymond Morin. If you wouldn't mind coming forward,
8 having a place, sitting down at particularly a
9 microphone.
10 1820
11 955 We will start with either
12 Brenda Baker and/or Bruce Rice. When you are ready.
13 956 Thank you.
14 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
15 957 MS BAKER: Good evening. As you
16 heard, my name is Brenda Baker and I'm a writer and
17 performer from Saskatoon.
18 958 I have been a fan of CBC radio and TV
19 for about 20 years now and from 1985 to 1990 I worked
20 in Regina for CBC Radio Saskatchewan as a fill-in host
21 and a part-time arts journalist.
22 959 I chose to leave the corp to pursue
23 my artistic interests, but I remain passionate about
24 the CBC and its critical, unique role within our
25 democracy.
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1 960 I would like to thank the CRTC for
2 this opportunity to share just a few of the many
3 thoughts I have had about the CBC in the last couple of
4 years. I hope that if you tour Canada again you will
5 stop in Saskatoon next time where you will find that we
6 have, at this time anyway, totally inadequate service
7 in both radio and television.
8 961 I understand that you are hoping that
9 we will focus on the future, and I'll try to do that,
10 however, I won't go along with any kind of pretence
11 that all is well with the CBC. I believe the
12 government made a huge mistake when they hacked away a
13 third of its allotment and with the current technicians
14 strike and an impending strike by journalists, I'm very
15 worried for the health of public broadcasting in the
16 future.
17 962 I will be making two short
18 presentations. The first will be as the President of
19 the Saskatchewan Writers Guild, a 30-year old
20 organization of about 700 members. The second will be
21 as a citizen who was involved in the CBC Ours to Keep
22 petition campaign in 1997.
23 963 Over the years, many people in the
24 membership of the Saskatchewan Writers Guild have
25 contributed to CBC programming, mostly in radio, but
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1 before the cuts began some of our members were
2 beginning to write for television as well.
3 964 It must be noted that many writers do
4 seem to have more of an affinity with the medium of
5 radio. We have been well served by CBC radio which has
6 aired our poetry, short stories, plays, songs mostly to
7 our neighbours in Saskatchewan, but sometimes, though
8 probably not enough, across the country too.
9 965 Other members have been heard giving
10 thoughtful commentaries or carefully considered script
11 and clip pieces, and many more people who were not
12 members of our guild still employed their writing
13 skills to provide commentary on a wide variety of
14 issues and events. For all this important work, the
15 CBC paid people who knew how to write a respectable
16 fee.
17 966 But things have changed. Today we
18 still have some opportunities to air our creative work
19 on local programs, but probably fewer overall and
20 certainly not with a lot of added production values.
21 Commentaries about various issues of the day are almost
22 never done out of Saskatchewan and I can't tell you the
23 last time I heard a script and clip piece done locally.
24 967 So what's replacing the thoughtful,
25 considered, professional content that writers used to
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1 be paid for? In a word "voice mail". If you think
2 about it, it fulfils the CBC's need to appear diverse
3 and accessible and the beautiful thing is that it is
4 free.
5 968 Whatever did CBC radio do to help
6 fill in the day before voice mail? Well, for one
7 thing, they hired more people with writing skills and
8 interesting ideas. The content of a show was always
9 reviewed by a number of people, scripts were usually
10 carefully vetted, and I believe the job of the writer
11 and the opinion of the writer was highly regarded by
12 the culture that used to thrive at the CBC. Canadian
13 writers played a huge part in building an amazing
14 public radio system that was second to none.
15 969 Now, on CBC Radio One, too much of
16 the day is given over to whatever comes in on the voice
17 mail. Occasionally, the talk back idea is
18 appropriately used and there are some interesting
19 comments.
20 970 As an aside, I would like to mention
21 that Richardson's Roundup, which is hosted by one of
22 the most literate men in Canada, is built on voice mail
23 and repeats from other shows. Bill is one of the
24 greatest minds and best writers on CBC today and I
25 think we are wasting his talent.
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1 971 Despite the efforts of the voice mail
2 editors on a number of CBC programs, often the messages
3 are amusing chitchat or desperate, ill-informed
4 opinions that don't really stay with the listener, not
5 the way a good piece of writing does.
6 972 Picking on voice mail may seem
7 simplistic, but I believe the disproportionate use of
8 it, relative to the contributions of professional
9 writers, indicates a significant and negative change at
10 the CBC. So my message from the Saskatchewan Writers
11 Guild to the CBC regarding its future is simple: bring
12 back more writers and bring back the staff necessary to
13 oversee the production of this increase in quality
14 content.
15 973 In closing this part of my
16 presentation, I would like to share with you a few
17 comments from some of our guild members, and these were
18 collected via e-mail.
19 974 This is from writer Anita Darr(ph) of
20 La Ronge in Northern Saskatchewan:
21 "How can a corporation that
22 professes to be the voice of
23 Canada continue to maintain
24 coverage by cutting back on
25 staff? I'm dissatisfied with
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1 the way CBC radio has reduced
2 its northern programming out of
3 La Range. At one time there was
4 a morning and a noon show
5 produced and broadcast here by a
6 staff of three. As of a year
7 ago, staffing has been reduced
8 to one person who handles
9 production, research,
10 administrative duties,
11 reporting, broadcasting, etc.,
12 and there is one show instead of
13 two. This one person has his
14 hands full. There is not nearly
15 enough time to get out in the
16 community and connect with the
17 many other people around the
18 north." (As read)
19 975 The Writers Guild has had a long
20 relationship with Saskatchewan schools and so here is a
21 note from a Saskatoon teacher and children's writer,
22 Judith Benson:
23 "As a teacher and writer, I'm
24 daily emersed in the lives and
25 needs of children from many
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1 walks of life. I value any
2 opportunity for students to be
3 able to visualize the words they
4 hear. CBC radio does this via
5 stories, poetry and commentary,
6 more so for adults than
7 children, but more radio
8 offerings for children is a
9 matter to discuss at another
10 time. My point is that children
11 are growing up with fewer and
12 fewer opportunities to visualize
13 the words they hear and to
14 verbalize this experience. CBC
15 radio, like no other medium,
16 gives me the opportunity to
17 visualize what I'm hearing, to
18 internalize the information, and
19 to receive inspiration as a
20 writer by hearing the work of
21 and interviews with other
22 writers." (As read)
23 976 And from one of Saskatchewan's senior
24 writers who wished to remain anonymous, she says:
25 "I was ticked off when CBC radio
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1 got so cut that it was using
2 people like me for free. I did
3 a special item for a national
4 program expecting to be given a
5 contract and never was, so I
6 complained to the CBC because it
7 had taken about a day of my
8 time. They then paid me $100.
9 I didn't fight for more. My
10 argument was that they shouldn't
11 be getting my talent for free
12 while they were paying everybody
13 else." (As read)
14 977 Finally, Eileen Comstock(ph) is from
15 Moose Jaw, and she says:
16 "As one of Saskatchewan CBC
17 radio's many rural faithful, we
18 used to be able to lock on to
19 CBK all day. The menu was
20 varied, interesting and did not
21 insult our intelligence nor
22 insult our ears as private
23 stations often do. Lately, due
24 to financial constraints, there
25 is so much repetition of
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1 regional items here in
2 Saskatchewan that dedicated
3 listeners are turned off. This
4 deterioration not only irritates
5 the listener, it means a loss of
6 local work depriving
7 Saskatchewan writers and artists
8 of a market outlet." (As read)
9 978 Eileen closes with this:
10 "There once was a farmer who, in
11 the interests of economy,
12 reduced his horse's rations a
13 little bit every day. He
14 boasted to his neighbour that he
15 had just about succeeded in
16 getting a horse who could work
17 with no input at all but the
18 darn thing died." (As read)
19 979 So with that I will close my comments
20 from the Saskatchewan Writers Guild portion of my
21 presentation.
22 980 In 1997, from January to March, I
23 worked full time as an unpaid volunteer for a petition
24 campaign called CBC Ours to Keep. It was a response to
25 the huge cutbacks foisted on the CBC at that time. Our
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1 organization was grassroots, national and not organized
2 by the Friends of Canadian Broadcasting as some people
3 believe it was. There was a captain in each province
4 and I served in that capacity for Saskatchewan. It was
5 an all-consuming task, but an experience I would not
6 have passed up for the world.
7 981 During our campaign I was accosted in
8 restaurants, approached on the street, queried while
9 grocery shopping by people, often strangers, who wanted
10 to tell me about their personal relationship with the
11 CBC. Whether it was a young stay-at-home mom who saw
12 Morningside as her link to the adult world, or a
13 university student who just loved This Hour Has
14 22 Minutes, or a guy at the bus depot who wanted to be
15 able to hear the Hab's hockey games in French, day
16 after day I was connected to people in Saskatoon
17 because we all cared about the CBC.
18 982 I received letters and phone calls
19 from all over Saskatchewan, people who couldn't believe
20 that we were having to petition the government on this
21 kind of an issue. From farmers who appreciated the
22 dedicated staff on the Radio Noon Edition to citizens
23 in Prince Albert who were working toward getting their
24 own FM stereo service so they could hear the New York
25 Opera or to our First Nations' communities who were
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1 affirmed by North of 60, the people of Saskatchewan
2 told me again and again that through the CBC they heard
3 and saw themselves reflected and could travel beyond
4 our provincial boundaries without leaving home.
5 983 In Saskatchewan, in a few short
6 weeks, we collected almost 21,000 names to add to the
7 quarter million collected nationally, and these are the
8 21 million -- 21 million, I wish -- 21,000 names. I
9 have brought them from the Saskatchewan archives. We
10 photocopied each and every petition page painstakingly
11 so we would have a record of what we had done. There
12 are of course lots of comments there to read as well.
13 984 We had the highest per capita count
14 coming out of Saskatchewan for this campaign, and our
15 names came from 325 Saskatchewan communities.
16 Saskatoon was very active in this effort and I think I
17 can speak for many people of my city when I say it is
18 high time Saskatoon got its six o'clock television news
19 program back again. I cite Calgary and Windsor as two
20 other cities which lost their stations at the same time
21 Saskatoon did, but their programs were reinstated quite
22 some time ago.
23 985 Having said that I would like to see
24 more news on television, I would certainly like to hear
25 less on Radio One. I really don't get it. Why the CBC
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1 powers that be think that we need to be updated every
2 half hour of the day is beyond me. It interrupts all
3 sorts of other kinds of programming that they are
4 doing.
5 986 In the future I would like to see the
6 balance of programming on Radio One improved. Our
7 regional morning, noon, afternoon and weekend programs
8 have been bled to death, as you have heard from many
9 other people I think today. Many of us consider these
10 programs to be a unifying force in the province in the
11 same way that CBC unites people across Canada. It's
12 insulting to have our regional shows so cut back now
13 that they consist mostly of a host talking over the
14 telephone to someone.
15 987 We have lost just about everything
16 that used to make our radio a rich audio experience, a
17 true art form. Our weekend shows which used to have
18 serious, interesting content about Saskatchewan are
19 just music programs now with a few repeats thrown in.
20 988 To speak about the bigger picture for
21 a moment, for the record, I would like to say that it
22 seems to me that CBC is always going to be in jeopardy
23 so long as the Board of Directors and the President are
24 government appointees. The future health of the CBC is
25 dependent upon finding some other way of selecting the
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1 leadership for our institution or at least for a new
2 way of selecting some of the leaders that are at the
3 top of the CBC. It is such an important Canadian
4 institution that I believe this is one of the first
5 things that the CRTC should be trying to do, to look at
6 for us, on behalf of us. I don't know if that really
7 fits in with the role of the CRTC, but it seems to me
8 it is something you could at least explore.
9 989 There are a lot of other things I
10 could say, but I'm going to stop there.
11 990 I would like to close by saying that
12 it would be nice if the CRTC came out like this more
13 often. I understand it is the first time that this
14 kind of a tour across Canada has happened for you. I'm
15 amazed at the kind of coverage you were able to get
16 from the CBC. You have been on just about every news
17 show that I have watched in the last week, not you
18 personally but the fact that this is all going on. I
19 can't help but compare it to the experience that we had
20 as just Canadian citizens trying to help the CBC.
21 991 When we ran our campaign, it was like
22 pulling teeth to get any kind of coverage of our
23 numerous events from the CBC, and this is both
24 regionally and nationally. They said it was in the
25 interests of objectivity. So I'm very curious about
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1 how it is that when another government organization
2 comes to town and is driving the agenda, rather than
3 just Canadian citizens, the CBC seems to have no qualms
4 about promoting itself and talking about itself in the
5 various programs, both on TV and radio.
6 992 In April 1997, when the Ours to Keep
7 captains -- there were 13 of us of course from every
8 province and territory in Canada -- when we took the
9 time to fly to Ontario to present our quarter million
10 petitions to the government, with the help of the Air
11 Farce and Pierre Burton I might add, the CBC National
12 TV News deemed the event absolutely unworthy of even so
13 much as a mention. They just didn't bother.
14 993 I was appalled and offended. I don't
15 care what else was making the news that day. To answer
16 the question made so famous by the late Barbara Frum,
17 yes, I'm bitter. I think there is something really
18 screwy with a public broadcaster that won't pay a
19 little attention to those who care so deeply about it.
20 994 Thank you very much.
21 995 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
22 Ms Baker, Mr. Rice.
23 996 Mr. Secretary.
24 997 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Commissioner.
25 998 Mr. John W. Haskey, please.
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1 999 Mr. Haskey is not with us? Okay.
2 1835
3 1000 Mr. Ron Clark.
4 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
5 1001 MR. CLARK: I'm grateful for this
6 opportunity to share my reflections in support of the
7 renewal of the licence of the Canadian Broadcasting
8 Corporation.
9 1002 While my family has easy access to a
10 wide range of channels and stations, we keep finding
11 yourselves tuning back to the CBC for information and
12 entertainment. The reasons for this lie deep within
13 our need for familiar language and subject material
14 that affirms our identity as Canadians and which
15 emphasizes community rather than individualism.
16 1003 In the last few years I have been
17 very disturbed about the financial cutbacks and
18 restraints experienced by production workers and
19 artists. The result, in my perception, is greater
20 centralization of programming and production, and I
21 continue to admire the creative way that the CBC
22 Radio One in Saskatchewan has managed to continue.
23 Sheila Cole's daily Morning Edition, the Noon Edition,
24 Colin Grewer's Afternoon Edition are daily experiences
25 and companions in my life.
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1 1004 From the time I awaken until 6:00 at
2 night, I feel I'm exposed to events that are happening
3 in politics, the arts, farming and people's personal
4 lives in our region. Whether in the car or at home, I
5 have the dial turned to AM 540. I would not want to
6 have any more cutbacks to local and regional
7 broadcasting. I think I share this view with the
8 majority of Canadian CBC listeners wherever they reside
9 in Canada.
10 1005 As far as the CBC TV is concerned,
11 it's a shame to see cutbacks in the evening news
12 produced locally or regionally. I would like to see
13 this reinstated and expanded -- yes, Saskatoon news
14 coverage reinstated.
15 1006 I believe that the difference which
16 is reflected by public radio broadcasting contrasted
17 with privately owned stations, this difference needs to
18 continue. People need an alternative to canned music,
19 hotshot DJs, steady country and western music, rock
20 music and the golden oldies, five minutes of non-stop
21 commercials, and silly, uninformative talk shows and
22 game shows. Canadian produced television dramas,
23 musicals, variety and comedy shows have more than
24 proven their worth. Series such as Sunday Family Hours
25 have proven that quality can be produced in this
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1 country given adequate budgets.
2 1007 The special role of the CBC is to
3 resist the cultural encroachment of American values.
4 The depiction of crime and those who work in that
5 field, for example, as portrayed in shows like
6 DaVinci's Inquest, reflects Canadian reality and indeed
7 human reality. The prevalence of guns, privatized
8 medicine, hero worship, hollywood domination of culture
9 and a certain jingoism are fortunately absent in most
10 Canadian features.
11 1008 I believe there is a role for
12 partnerships between the CBC and private production
13 companies in creating arts, drama, children's shows and
14 comedy for day time and prime time viewing. I believe,
15 however, that the budgetary restraints have been too
16 great. It has become too obvious that reruns are used
17 to fill too many time allocations.
18 1009 As I have said, at our house, we keep
19 turning back to the CBC for quality programs after
20 maybe we have watched, oh, our favourite football or
21 curling game on TSN or the occasional sitcom on CTV or
22 Global. If we are still awake, The National is our
23 preferred news coverage in addition to CBC national
24 radio telecasts such as The World at Six.
25 1010 The role of the CBC in fostering
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1 Canadian talent, discovering Canadian talent and
2 promoting the fine artists of this country cannot be
3 emphasized enough. It has been highly influential in
4 my life. My love for drama and music and history grew
5 out of radio from the forties and fifties. Saturday
6 Afternoons at the Met, Lux and Radio theatres, CBC
7 school broadcasts have made huge impacts in my life
8 vocation and interests.
9 1011 The CBC has brought me in touch with
10 the distinctive Canadian cultures, national debates,
11 international sporting events, international affairs.
12 They have held a mirror to me about who I am and where
13 I fit with Canadian and global society.
14 1012 I am aware of what media coverage we
15 would be forced to be exposed to should the CBC radio
16 and TV not exist and it's truly frightening. That this
17 great public service might be furthered curtailed by
18 uncaring or misguided federal regimes leaves me angry
19 and afraid.
20 1013 Thanks for hearing my views.
21 1014 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
22 Mr. Clark.
23 1015 Mr. Secretary.
24 1016 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
25 1840
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1 1017 Dan Cameron, please.
2 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
3 1018 MR. CAMERON: My remarks sort of
4 present a vision for CBC TV, I'm not speaking as to
5 radio, and to prevent you from taking copious notes I
6 can give you my presentation in writing. I will hand
7 it in.
8 1019 I have six points and I will try and
9 make them briefly.
10 1020 The first thing I would see for the
11 CBC is I would like to see an arm's-length relationship
12 between the government and the CBC. As you are well
13 aware, there is talk currently of establishing a
14 vice presidency in the CBC that would in fact oversee
15 news and public affairs.
16 1021 Now, there is no question in my mind
17 the intention of that is to control the CBC because for
18 many of us out here on the ground, the CBC, in this
19 country, is today the official opposition. We don't
20 seem to get it in our Parliament. You can speak to
21 things like the APEC inquiry and so on and so forth
22 that simply illustrate that for me as well as the
23 current inquiry into the Canadian olympic organization
24 and so on the CBC is taking on, things like
25 Market Place. I don't see those things on private TV.
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1 I don't see W5 on other -- Global or things like that.
2 1022 So I think it is very important that
3 we have an arm's-length relationship between government
4 and the CBC and that it be emphasized, that the
5 president of the CBC be appointed by the Board,
6 recruited and appointed by the Board of the CBC. That
7 is normal practice. If in fact you are going to have a
8 president of a corporation, that should be done.
9 1023 In terms of the board members
10 themselves, there have been some rather questionable
11 selections to the CBC Board, particularly during the
12 Mulroney years. I had the misfortune of meeting one of
13 those individuals, who I won't name, and I said to
14 myself, "This is the character of the people who are
15 running national broadcasting?" It left me with really
16 serious concerns.
17 1024 I think the board members should be
18 appointed by government from a list prepared by an
19 agency, for example, like the Canada Council, the
20 government should select from that list its appointees,
21 and those selected should be party to approval by an
22 all party parliamentary committee. So it is going to
23 your point that we need that. Okay.
24 1025 The second point I should make is
25 that we should have a greater emphasis on quality
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1 programming. Here I cast my eyes heaven word and give
2 thanks that Ken Finkleman has chosen to return to
3 Canada and is doing such a wonderful job. I would also
4 suggest that in fact we have greater investigative
5 reports, particularly on social and political issues.
6 I put to you that there is not a handful of Canadians
7 who really understand why 49 plus per cent of Quebecers
8 voted for sovereignty, the real reasons Canadians don't
9 know, and you will find the public broadcaster in fact,
10 in my opinion, is simply serving as a mouthpiece for
11 the spin doctors in government.
12 1026 So I'm suggesting here that in fact
13 these types of realities of introducing one part of the
14 country to another and its concerns to other parts of
15 the country should be a key mandate of CBC. I'm very
16 pleased that in fact they are producing a history of
17 Canada which I think is long overdue.
18 1027 On a third point, we have a separate
19 cable channel for CBC that would feature cultural and
20 educational broadcasting. Currently Bravo has this
21 responsibility. Right now it is in contravention of
22 its licensing requirements that not more than 25 per
23 cent of its broadcasting between 7:00 and 11:00 p.m. be
24 produced in the U.S. That is a requirement in writing,
25 in law, as far as its contract. It does not meet that.
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1 Any place west of Winnipeg it's less than 50 per cent.
2 I find it just incongruous that the CRTC would insist
3 on Canadian programming levels only where it resided.
4 If you are looking elsewhere, it's less than the 25 per
5 cent.
6 1028 Also, with Bravo, you will find that
7 most of its cultural broadcasting, in fact, in the
8 evening is very commercial. Any of its cultural stuff
9 is buried in the off hours after midnight or during the
10 day. I think that licence was one of the CRTC's real
11 disasters and that in fact when that licence opens for
12 renewal in the Year 2000 it should be open for public
13 bidding, and the CBC be given a fair shot this time at
14 filling that licence requirement.
15 1029 In terms of local news, my fourth
16 point, I believe that in fact the local news should
17 combine the best features, one of the strengths of the
18 CBC, which is its national news coverage. So the local
19 news should be in fact a combination of local and
20 national news that is more complete. You find that in
21 fact local news in the commercial stations is really
22 local, really local, of the man-bites-dog variety.
23 1030 I met my friends outside -- I came
24 out of the labour relations field myself -- I had some
25 chat with them outside. I would suggest to them and to
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1 you that the CBC and its unions -- this is my fifth
2 point -- get their act together and agree on a more
3 collaborative union-management relationship,
4 union-management employee relationship. What these
5 people are doing are squabbling over the golden eggs
6 and they don't seem to give a damn about the goose that
7 lays them. Instead of fighting over the crumbs, they
8 should be collaborating together to see if they can
9 make better use of the crumbs that exist and get more
10 crumbs, and that is not happening.
11 1031 There is enough examples of those
12 collaborative existences. This is not pie in the sky.
13 It happens. There are local examples where union and
14 management and employees work collaboratively together.
15 In fact, I have an example here I'm prepared to give
16 with my presentation.
17 1032 I would also suggest, as my sixth
18 point, that all TV broadcasters be treated in the same
19 fashion as the CBC. Currently, the local Global TV
20 station outlet here has no Canadian content from 6:30
21 to 10:30, five days a week, 365 days a year. Zero.
22 None. The local CTV is not much better.
23 1033 My daughter tonight, I asked her if
24 she could name the two American presidents on
25 Mount Rushmore and she could. I asked her if she could
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1 name two previous Canadian Prime Ministers and she
2 couldn't. I asked her, "Well, how did you learn about
3 this?" She said, "Well, I think I saw it on TV." So I
4 would suggest: When is the CRTC going to do a
5 cross-country hearing, similar to this one, on the
6 effects of this type of TV broadcasting on our sense of
7 national consciousness?
8 1034 Thank you.
9 1035 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
10 Mr. Cameron.
11 1036 Mr. Secretary.
12 1037 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
13 1848
14 1038 Lucy Eley, please.
15 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
16 1039 MS ELEY: Good evening.
17 1040 I guess this isn't a very
18 well-thought out thing.
19 1041 Anyway, I just wanted to say -- and,
20 actually, from a sense of fear that the CBC might be
21 cut still further than it has been and that the people
22 are just sort of closing in on it to knock it off, I
23 just wanted to say that I think that the CBC radio is a
24 very valuable resource. It has made a wide world of
25 culture available to the people of Canada, originally
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1 through local radio stations and then through CBK at
2 Watrous when it had its own station.
3 1042 I can remember listening to Woodhouse
4 and Hawkins. There was A Baker's Dozen, a series of
5 plays involving Lister Sinclair, and a Moose Jaw author
6 whose name I have forgotten. But I remember being
7 shocked to think that we could actually have an author
8 in Moose Jaw who could write a play that would be put
9 on the radio.
10 1043 It has provided a source of income
11 for writers, actors, technical people, all sorts of
12 people who make valuable contributions to our society.
13 Right now I'm thinking of Harry Sommers(ph), who I'm
14 sure got a lot of support from the CBC in his musical
15 career and also of the support that it gives to
16 Regina's musicians in broadcasting -- or taping and
17 broadcasting our symphony concerts and other things
18 like that.
19 1044 It has also made us aware of other
20 parts of Canada. I think back to listening to the
21 broadcasts about the Springfield Mine disaster, now I
22 think it went on too long but it was very impressive;
23 about the Alora(ph) community in Ontario, which I'm
24 sure I would never have heard of if it hadn't been for
25 their work, their song, you know, singing being
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1 broadcast on the CBC; and those interviews on the radio
2 with Rozy Robothen(ph) and the insights that he has
3 given into our prison system. All those kinds of
4 things are very valuable for us to have contact with.
5 1045 The CBC radio keeps reminding me how
6 very nice and how interesting Canadians, and especially
7 Saskatchewanians are, I mean, even when you don't
8 necessarily agree with their views.
9 1046 I haven't watched much TV since the
10 intrusion of advertising. I just can't stand to reach
11 a vital point in something and then be watching
12 somebody chasing a role of toilet paper or something
13 like that. I mean, it just -- so I just don't really
14 bother.
15 1047 But I do remember -- I suppose when
16 the CBC had more public funding and so on -- I can
17 remember watching with pleasure Front Page Challenge,
18 This Hour Has Seven Days, and Man Alive. There were
19 all sorts of good things on CBC TV at one time. As I
20 say, I hardly ever see it any more because I can't
21 stand the advertising.
22 1048 Also, there have been wonderful
23 programs on the French TV. In the late seventies maybe
24 or early eighties -- I forget who was premier then, but
25 they had some wonderful plays on and then suddenly they
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1 were gone. I think, like "Beau Dimanche", if you will
2 pardon my French, also has some very good things which
3 I watch quite often if I can, even though I find they
4 speak far too quickly.
5 1049 I guess what I'm saying is that the
6 CBC opens our eyes to the wide possibilities of human
7 life and human achievement in Canada and throughout the
8 world. John Ruskin talked about people who knew the
9 price of everything and the value of nothing. The CBC
10 admittedly comes at a price but its value is
11 immeasurable and I certainly hope that it will continue
12 to receive support. I have one major complaint about
13 the CBC or perhaps two.
14 1050 The first one is the current attempt
15 to get with it, as I guess, by putting everything in
16 the present tense in news reports. It's most annoying
17 to say, "I'm back on whatever", you know, instead of,
18 "I will be back." This will eventually destroy some of
19 the subtleties of the English language. I won't go
20 into that, but I think maybe people don't realize it,
21 you know, the difference in meaning between those kinds
22 of sentences. It doesn't make the news any more
23 relevant or, as far as I can see, exciting and,
24 actually, I can't see why the news should have to be
25 exciting.
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1 1051 The other thing, my other complaint
2 is that unless I have a definite appointment I find it
3 difficult to get out of the house if I have the radio
4 on or prepare presentations such as this one, because
5 there is always something interesting on the radio and
6 I want to keep on listening and hear the end of it.
7 1052 Thank you very much.
8 1053 And how should it fulfil its role in
9 the future? Well, continue as it is but with more
10 funding and lots of resources. I think it's worth
11 every cent that we pay for it.
12 1054 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms Eley.
13 1055 Mr. Secretary.
14 1056 MR. LAHAY: Thank you.
15 1057 Susie Matthews, please.
16 1058 Susie Matthews. Okay.
17 1855
18 1059 Kevin DeWalt.
19 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
20 1060 MR. DeWALT: Thank you.
21 1061 My name is Kevin DeWalt and I'm the
22 President of the Saskatchewan Film Producers
23 Association. On behalf of myself and my members of my
24 association, I want to thank the CRTC for the
25 opportunity to speak to you today.
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1 1062 My presentation, which I as well have
2 copies I will leave with you, primarily focuses on the
3 interests of the independent film and television
4 production community in Saskatchewan. It goes without
5 saying that our members feel very strongly that the CBC
6 is an organization and a broadcast system that needs
7 support, continued support, and we very much support,
8 around this table, the need for renewal and continued
9 support on an ongoing basis.
10 1063 The Saskatchewan Film Producers
11 Association is a non-profit incorporated entity with a
12 mission to represent the interests of independent film
13 and television production companies in Saskatchewan.
14 The organization's membership criterion is voting
15 membership in the Canadian Film and Television
16 Production Association. The 10 production companies in
17 Saskatchewan who are members of our association are
18 responsible for 90 per cent of the independent
19 production volume in the province and over 90 per cent
20 of all employment in the independent film and video
21 sector.
22 1064 The SFPA supports the renewal of the
23 CBC licence and acknowledges that the CBC is and should
24 remain the key broadcast partner in the production of
25 Canadian indigenous stories in both the dramatic and
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1 non-fiction genres. At the same time, we have some
2 thoughts and suggestions as to how the CBC might better
3 meet the terms of its mandate in the future, some of
4 which we believe merit consideration as possible
5 conditions to be included in any licence renewal.
6 1065 Among its many important public
7 policy roles, the CBC has provided Canadian writers,
8 directors, performers and producers a stage on which to
9 perform for Canadians and audiences around the world.
10 Canadian television programming is critically acclaimed
11 and acknowledged around the world for its quality and
12 we are second only to the U.S. in export sales. The
13 reality of today's film and television industry is that
14 many successful productions are done in Toronto,
15 Montreal and Vancouver and they are also made in the
16 Maritimes and of course the Prairies.
17 1066 Recently, Saskatchewan has begun to
18 play a larger role. Production activity here doubled
19 in the past year from $26 million in 1997 to over
20 $50 million in 1998. Key contributors to that growth
21 have been the Canadian Television Fund, TeleFilm
22 Canada, the Federal Tax Credit Program, and more
23 recently our own provincial tax program.
24 1067 It is the job of independent
25 producers, such as SFPA members, to create partnerships
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1 between private and public sources of funds, between
2 producers, broadcasters, distributors and government
3 agencies. Against formidable odds, these partnerships
4 make our industry viable in spite of the small size of
5 our domestic market and the fact that we live next door
6 to the dominant force in the global entertainment and
7 communications industry.
8 1068 CBC has been an essential part of
9 these partnerships in Saskatchewan for many, many
10 years, although, to be candid, its role here has faded
11 considerably in the past few years. Unfortunately,
12 just as Saskatchewan's independent production sector
13 has really come into its own -- I'm sorry -- has faded
14 considerably and it is unfortunate that this has
15 happened as our sector has really come in its own.
16 1069 In the early 1990s, information
17 series such as What On Earth and Utopia Cafe were
18 developed locally and went on to be exhibited
19 nationally on the network. This helped to create a
20 base for non-fiction production which led to several
21 documentaries for the main network and Newsworld:
22 Frankie and Walter, Lost Legacy, the Last Word From
23 Moose Jaw, the Live to Polka, The Boys Who Loved
24 Hockey, The Plays, The Thing. I could name many more.
25 From a standing start seven or eight years ago these
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1 are impressive achievements.
2 1070 What has been more elusive has been a
3 commitment to dramatic production in this region.
4 Although, Saskatchewan has served as a location for a
5 number of major CBC miniseries originated and
6 majority-owned by Toronto and Montreal companies,
7 examples are Love and Hate, Big Bear, and the upcoming
8 Revenge of the Land, there has not been a concerted
9 effort to work with Saskatchewan companies to develop
10 and produce dramatic programs from and about
11 Saskatchewan.
12 1071 While we in no way want to diminish
13 the importance of these miniseries and movies which
14 provide important employment opportunities for
15 Saskatchewan talent and crew, and told compelling
16 Saskatchewan stories, it has to be acknowledged that
17 until Saskatchewan companies are welcomed as full
18 partners by the CBC in the creation of drama
19 programming, it will be difficult for us to build and
20 maintain any sustainable infrastructure needed to tell
21 our own Saskatchewan stories.
22 1072 As the CEO of a production company
23 which has, in the past few years, supplied dramatic
24 movies and miniseries to Canadian regional and
25 specialty channels, such as WIC, YTV, Baton's VTV, the
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1 A-Channel, and to international broadcasters including
2 the BBC, TV 1 of France, Show Time in the USA and SAT 1
3 in Germany, to name a few, I admit to being somewhat
4 frustrated at the continuing difficulty enlisting the
5 support of national mainstream broadcasters, especially
6 the CBC.
7 1073 While it would be easy to attribute
8 this problem to budget cuts which have
9 disproportionately affected regional decision making
10 and thus production, and indeed this is a large part of
11 the problem, it has to be noted that the CBC has made
12 efforts on occasion to nurture drama in the regions.
13 For example, Alberta recently had a series called North
14 of 60 and British Columbia presently has a series
15 called DaVinci's Inquest. Of course the maritimes has
16 had a healthy share of CBC production in recent years.
17 1074 What is missing however is a
18 sustained and comprehensive vision that places the
19 regions front and centre in CBC's program development
20 and schedule planning activities. Rather than
21 occasionally reacting to the pressures exerted by
22 regional producers by placing a Toronto-developed
23 series in a regional location, there needs to be an
24 understanding that many of the country's most
25 compelling stories occur in the regions and that it is
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1 in the CBC's best interests, from both a mandate and
2 audience perspective, to nurture the storytellers here,
3 the writers, the directors, the actors, the crew and
4 the production companies.
5 1075 Every province in Canada now has
6 qualified production companies with demonstrated track
7 records in drama production. It is time for the CBC to
8 ensure that it is partnering with these companies from
9 coast to coast on a consistent basis.
10 1076 As a first step, our membership
11 proposes that serious considerations be given to
12 mechanisms which would open up the CBC drama to ideas
13 from the regional provinces.
14 1077 The BBC in the U.K. serves as an
15 instructive example here. I happen to be doing two
16 international co-productions with U.K. partners and the
17 BBC is a partner in one of them. The BBC, several
18 years ago, made a number of changes in the way it does
19 business and introduced -- under the rubric of producer
20 choice whereby independent producers were put on a
21 relatively equal footing with in-house BBC producers in
22 competing for broadcast slots and resources, regional
23 expenditure targets were formulated and regional
24 offices were given the authority and autonomy to
25 develop and produce drama programming. Now, seven,
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1 eight years later, much of the best and most successful
2 drama indigenous programming in the U.K. on the network
3 originates from its regional offices.
4 1078 Unlike the CBC, BBC did not respond
5 to budget cuts by reducing their regional presence.
6 Instead they were a trigger to increase regional
7 production. In other words, they saw it as an
8 investment, not a cost, and the investment is paying
9 off.
10 1079 Judging by the success of such
11 Saskatchewan produced drama projects as Conquest,
12 Summer of the Monkeys, the Lost Daughter, Incredible
13 Stories, Studios and Guitar Man. I can go on and on.
14 There is no reason to believe that making a similar
15 investment in the regions of this country would not
16 produce similar results. We believe it is time for the
17 CBC to set regional expenditure envelopes for
18 independent production and for the CBC management to be
19 accountable that targets are met.
20 1080 We further believe that this would be
21 an appropriate condition of a renewed CBC television
22 licence. On the other end of the scale, smaller and
23 emerging producers share many of the challenges faced
24 by drama producers for somewhat different reasons.
25 1081 In years past, CBC offices across the
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1 country had more ability to create and program
2 regionally orientated information and documentary
3 programming. Many creative talents got their start in
4 this way. As independent production sectors began to
5 emerge in the smaller provinces in the late 1980s and
6 early 1990s, much of their initial growth came from
7 projects undertaken for regional CBC transmission.
8 1082 With the funding cuts of the past few
9 years and the decision to centralize all of the program
10 decision making for the English network in Toronto,
11 these opportunities for small regional relevant
12 projects have diminished significantly as regional
13 airtime has nearly disappeared and resources have
14 primarily dried up. Our members feel that this is
15 regrettable as regional programming is relatively
16 inexpensive, is a great incubator for emerging talent
17 in this country and has much to offer the network in
18 helping to attain its mandate, quote:
19 "...to reflect Canada and its
20 regions to national and regional
21 audiences while serving the
22 special needs of the region."
23 (As read)
24 1083 As set out by the Broadcasting Act.
25 1084 As a second recommendation, we feel
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1 that provision of regional windows for regional
2 productions should be a condition of the renewed
3 licence.
4 1085 Finally, we feel that there is a need
5 for the CBC to become smarter about how it uses its
6 financial resources and more open to partnerships with
7 the private sector. There may be important reasons
8 why, even after the budget reductions of recent years,
9 the CBC would presently be undertaking new initiatives
10 in the areas of niche channels and new media, for
11 example, or why the corporation continues to do some
12 in-house drama and variety production. In the absence
13 of more information, it is difficult for us to comment
14 on these. However, I know of a few Canadian
15 independent producers who do not share a strong belief
16 in the mandate and purpose of the corporation and I
17 submit that we would be appropriate business partners
18 if the CBC has a strategic need to move in such
19 directions.
20 1086 We have locally, in Regina, an
21 example of how an apparent disinterest in partnering
22 with the private sector has been, in our opinion, a
23 deterrent of the corporation. The CBC Broadcast Centre
24 in Regina, one of the more impressive and modern
25 facilities owned by the corporation, is presently
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1 highly under utilized in the wake of successful staff
2 reductions. A number of independently produced
3 television series, What On Earth, Utopia Cafe,
4 Maxamatics, as examples, have made use of these
5 facilities over the last couple of years through
6 facility deals. That's where corporations contribute
7 facilities instead of cash, which I must say have been
8 with excellent results. Representatives from the
9 independent sector have approached the CBC on more than
10 one occasion in the past few years with a proposal to
11 put these facilities to use as the basis of a
12 production incubator facilitating support to 10 to 15
13 up and coming Saskatchewan film, television and new
14 media companies.
15 1087 Another suggestion that was taken
16 forward was the idea that the provincial government and
17 the private sector buy the CBC Regina plant and at
18 least back the portion that the CBC needed with the
19 balance of space used to create a centre of excellence
20 for the provincial film, television and new media
21 industries. We believe that this concept was at least
22 worthy of exploration and could have been to the
23 financial benefit of the corporation.
24 1088 To date, there has been little in the
25 way of any constructive response, and those of us who
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1 have championed these ideas have reluctantly concluded
2 that our efforts were in vain. Today it is estimated
3 that over 50 per cent of the Regina CBC plant is not
4 utilized.
5 1089 In summary, I would like to reiterate
6 three specific recommendations: that the CBC establish
7 and be measured against regional expenditure envelopes
8 for independent production; two, that the CBC
9 reinstitute access to airtime on a regional basis
10 beyond the evening news; and, three, that the CBC
11 receive encouragement to become more open to regional
12 independent production companies who can be, if given a
13 chance, critical partners in the corporation's future
14 growth and success.
15 1090 The Broadcasting Act refers to the
16 CBC's obligation to:
17 "...contribute to a shared
18 national consciousness and
19 identity." (As read)
20 1091 Independent producers understand and
21 relate to that objective. That's why many of us got
22 into the business in the first place.
23 1092 In partnership with a renewed and
24 revitalized CBC, I am confident that we will achieve
25 our common goal of a strong Canadian CBC and
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1 broadcasting system.
2 1093 On behalf of the SFPA and my members,
3 I would like to thank you for the opportunity to speak
4 to the Committee this evening.
5 1094 Thanks.
6 1095 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
7 Mr. DeWalt.
8 1096 Mr. Secretary.
9 1097 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
10 1912
11 1098 Robert Waldegger, please.
12 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
13 1099 MR. WALDEGGER: My name is
14 Robert Waldegger. I'm here on behalf of the
15 Saskatchewan Pro-Life Association. We have a database
16 of 30,000 families in the province.
17 1100 I'm here to speak about a bias we
18 believe is in the CBC. My comments are going to be
19 based on a critique of a particular program.
20 1101 As an example of CBC's bias towards
21 pro-lifers, I make the following comments based on the
22 January 20th CBC program National Magazine's "Thou
23 Shalt Not Kill".
24 1102 Thou Shalt Not Kill was a deliberate
25 but unsuccessful attempt to establish solid links
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1 between the peaceful Canadian pro-life movement and a
2 tiny fringe of outspoken U.S. anti-abortion activists.
3 1103 As a taxpayer-funded organization,
4 the CBC is obliged to represent the views of all
5 mainstream Canadians. In this case, it gave excessive
6 coverage to American radicals and Canadian abortion
7 providers who hold that the Canadian movement is
8 responsible for violence suffered by abortion providers
9 in this country.
10 1104 Pro-lifers are responding that the
11 abuse of standards of fairness and honesty in the CBC
12 report is inexcusable and are demanding an apology and
13 an opportunity for equal response.
14 1105 The following observations made by
15 pro-life leaders across the country demonstrates the
16 bias of the documentary and its misleading tactics,
17 such as attempting to use guilt-by-association to
18 vilify the Canadian pro-life movement.
19 1106 CBC was unable to find a single
20 example of proven violence or support of violence by
21 the Canadian pro-life movement. It therefore resorted
22 to showing clips of U.S. anti-abortion groups who
23 refuse to condemn the killing of abortionists.
24 1107 The CBC then attempted, through
25 carefully crafted and selected clips, to create
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1 apparent links between the mainstream movement and the
2 few violent fringe U.S. individuals.
3 1108 The CBC allowed only two minutes of
4 commentary from Canadian pro-lifers on their entire
5 24-minute program. Campaign Life Coalition leader
6 Jim Hughes was the only Canadian pro-life activist
7 interviewed, and only two minutes of a two-hour
8 interview were used for the program. Mr. Hughes was
9 the only mainstream pro-lifer interviewed for the
10 entire program and mainstream, non-violent, U.S.
11 pro-lifers were completely left out or not mentioned.
12 1109 The CBC chose not to air Mr. Hughes'
13 outright condemnation of all abortion violence,
14 including his strong condemnation of the violence
15 directed toward abortionists or others in the abortion
16 industry.
17 1110 The rest of the mainstream pro-life
18 movement also condemns abortion violence against
19 preborn children, the violence against children's
20 mothers and the violence directed against pro-lifers by
21 abortion advocates.
22 1111 If CBC were really concerned about
23 stopping so-called pro-life violence in Canada, then
24 they would have aired compelling arguments by
25 Jim Hughes and others about the necessity for
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1 non-violent pro-life activism, saying that those who
2 advocate violence, including the killing of
3 abortionists are not pro-lifers.
4 1112 One clip on the program saw angry
5 pro-abortion advocates yelling and screaming at
6 pro-lifers. However, this clip followed the standard
7 formula of making it seem that it was the pro-lifers
8 exhibiting the obnoxious behaviour.
9 1113 Finally, if CBC wanted to do a story
10 on the pro-life radicals in Canada, they could have
11 interviewed the Canadian pro-lifer who has served the
12 most time in jail for peacefully praying in front of
13 abortion mills. The obvious reason CBC did not feature
14 grandmother Linda Gibbons is because here is a story of
15 faith, peace and non-violence. We use this example as
16 one example of the many that have happened on the CBC.
17 1114 In respect to the future of the CBC,
18 we respectfully submit that the CBC should be sold to
19 private interests.
20 1115 Thank you very much.
21 1116 I have a copy of the text for you,
22 sir.
23 1117 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
24 Mr. Waldegger.
25 1118 I just wanted to clarify. I thought
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1 I heard you say at the first that CBC had a bias
2 towards pro-lifers.
3 1119 MR. WALDEGGER: No. It's against
4 pro-lifers.
5 1120 THE CHAIRPERSON: Against pro-lifers?
6 1121 MR. WALDEGGER: Yes.
7 1122 THE CHAIRPERSON: What I had heard
8 was towards. I just wanted to verify that.
9 1123 Has your association sued CBC for
10 this, for defamation at all?
11 1124 MR. WALDEGGER: No.
12 1125 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
13 1915
14 1126 MR. LAHAY: Our final presenter for
15 the first group of presenters, Raymond Morin et Denis
16 DesGagné, s'il vous plaît.
17 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
18 1127 M. MORIN: Bonsoir. La présentation
19 va être en français. Alors, peut-être s'il y a des
20 gens dans la salle qui veulent avoir la traduction,
21 est-ce qu'ils veulent se servir des récepteurs
22 d'interprétation, Monsieur le Secrétaire?
23 1128 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Nous avons la
24 traduction. Mr. Morin will be speaking in French. If
25 anybody wishes to obtain a traducteur you simply have
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1 to provide them with your driver's licence.
2 --- Pause / Pause
3 1129 M. MORIN: Oui, bonsoir. Nous
4 désirons remercier les membres du CRTC pour
5 l'opportunité que vous nous avez donné ce soir pour
6 exprimer notre point de vue.
7 1130 Pour élaborer ce mémoire, nous avons
8 demandé l'avis des douze communautés fransaskoises sur
9 la Société Radio-Canada afin de préparer un mémoire ce
10 soir. À noter cependant que cela n'empêche pas
11 nullement les communautés de vous faire des
12 présentations elles-mêmes. Il va y avoir d'autres
13 présentations de la communauté ce soir aussi.
14 1131 Alors, Radio-Canada: Un service
15 essentiel! Depuis sa création en 1936, la Société
16 Radio-Canada a permis aux Canadiens et aux Canadiennes
17 d'un océan à l'autre de mieux se comprendre. Par sa
18 programmation, tant à la télévision qu'à la radio
19 d'ailleurs, la Société Radio-Canada a joué un rôle dans
20 le développement du Canada, notamment en rapprochant
21 par le bais des ondes les différentes régions du pays.
22 Nul besoin en effet d'insister plus longuement sur les
23 bienfaits d'un réseau de diffusion national dans un
24 pays aussi vaste que le Canada.
25 1132 Pour les communautés francophones de
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1 la Saskatchewan, la Société Radio-Canada a joué un rôle
2 de développement. Elle a contribué à unir les
3 francophones du nord et du sud. Nous avons une grande
4 province ici en Saskatchewan et nos communautés sont
5 éparpillées à travers la province. Elle a contribué à
6 développer un sentiment d'appartenance et de fierté
7 collective parmi les Fransaskois. Nul doute que sa
8 disparition causerait un tort immense aux Fransaskois.
9 Les Fransaskois ce sont des francophones d'expression
10 française en Saskatchewan.
11 1133 À l'aube d'un nouveau millénaire, il
12 importe en effet d'assurer durablement une présence
13 fransaskoise sur les ondes de la radio et de la
14 télévision de Radio-Canada. On ne sait que trop bien
15 l'importance que revêt la radio et la télévision dans
16 la vie quotidienne des gens, en particulier chez les
17 jeunes, d'où l'importance d'avoir une chaîne
18 francophone solide et qui reflète les besoins de la
19 communauté.
20 1134 En ce sens, on ne peut qu'appuyer
21 également l'arrivée du Réseau TVA à l'échelle nationale
22 puisque cela représente pour nous une chaîne française
23 supplémentaire dans un environnement médiatique déjà
24 fortement anglophone. Malgré que la venue de TVA sera
25 essentiellement une fenêtre sur Montréal, les
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1 Fransaskois ne pourront tout de même qu'en profiter car
2 le Réseau TVA s'est engagé devant le CRTC à diffuser
3 des émissions traitant de la réalité des francophones
4 hors Québec.
5 1135 Il serait par ailleurs souhaitable
6 que la radio et la télévision de la Société
7 Radio-Canada parlent davantage des francophones aux
8 autres francophones du pays et encore plus des
9 francophones aux anglophones. Beaucoup de Québécois,
10 par exemple, ignorent jusqu'à l'existence-même des
11 francophones hors Québec. Une telle situation n'a rien
12 pour améliorer les rapports entre les francophones d'un
13 même pays. Il en va de même en ce qui concerne les
14 anglophones hors Québec, généralement peu au courant de
15 la situation des francophones.
16 1136 Axer la programmation sur la
17 Saskatchewan! La programmation radio et télévision de
18 la Société Radio-Canada doit être principalement
19 canadienne, refléter la globalité canadienne et rendre
20 compte de la diversité régionale du pays, tout en
21 contribuant activement à l'expression de la culture
22 canadienne. Dans les faits cependant, la réalité des
23 francophones en Saskatchewan est bien peu reflétée dans
24 les émissions diffusées sur les ondes de Radio-Canada.
25 1137 Comme nous le verrons d'ailleurs dans
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1 les lignes qui suivent, des progrès importants doivent
2 être faits, surtout en ce qui concerne la dimension
3 culturelle, et ce, tant à la radio qu'à la télévision
4 française car à l'heure actuelle, les Fransaskois
5 obtiennent une couverture à Radio-Canada comparable à
6 celle que reçoivent les Québécois sur les ondes de TV5,
7 c'est-à-dire très limitée.
8 1138 À la télévision française. La
9 programmation diffusée sur les ondes de la télévision
10 française en Saskatchewan est presqu'entièrement
11 québécoise. Or, bien que les émissions provenant du
12 Québec soient intéressantes à plus d'un titre, force
13 est de constater qu'elles retiennent peu l'intérêt des
14 Fransaskois, davantage concernés par ce qui se passe en
15 Saskatchewan.
16 1139 Certes, il y a déjà quelques
17 émissions consacrées aux Fransaskois et aux
18 francophones de l'ouest, comme, pour exemple, "Clan
19 destin" et "Sur la même longueur d'ondes". Mais cela
20 demeure insuffisant. À titre d'exemple, les
21 Fransaskois n'ont accès qu'à une demi-heure de
22 nouvelles par jour via "Saskatchewan Ce Soir".
23 1140 Il serait intéressant que la durée de
24 "Saskatchewan Ce Soir" soit augmentée à une heure
25 complète, de façon à inclure une section magazine.
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1 Nous aimerions aussi que davantage de nouvelles de la
2 Saskatchewan soient diffusées à l'échelle national sur
3 la première chaîne et non seulement sur le Réseau de
4 l'information (RDI), comme c'est le cas présentement.
5 1141 De façon générale, il est impératif
6 d'accroître la production d'émissions réalisées ici en
7 Saskatchewan. À cet égard, nous proposons la
8 réalisation d'une série diffusée sur le réseau national
9 et qui relaterait la réalité quotidienne des
10 francophones vivant en situation minoritaire. Une
11 telle série permettrait de renforcer le sentiment
12 d'appartenance des Fransaskois en plus de montrer aux
13 francophones des autres provinces, surtout du Québec,
14 comment vivent les francophones de l'ouest canadien.
15 1142 Conscient toutefois que la production
16 d'émissions ou de séries peut représenter des coûts
17 importants pour la Société Radio-Canada, des
18 partenariats avec le secteur privé ou avec des
19 producteurs locaux pourraient être envisagés pour
20 réduire les coûts. Des fonds sont en outre disponibles
21 à Téléfilm Canada via le Fonds canadien de télévision
22 pour permettre à des producteurs francophones de la
23 Saskatchewan de mettre sur pied des projets de séries.
24 De tels projets auraient également pour effet
25 d'encourager les artistes locaux, souvent contraints de
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1 s'expatrier au Québec pour être en mesure de pratiquer
2 leurs métiers en français.
3 1143 Une autre solution envisageable
4 consisterait à accroître la présence des francophones
5 de la Saskatchewan à l'intérieur des émissions
6 existantes, comme c'est le cas actuellement dans
7 l'émission "La Semaine verte". En plus d'être moins
8 onéreuse, cette façon de procéder a le grand avantage
9 de profiter de la visibilité et de la notoriété des
10 émissions existantes. Il faut en somme augmenter le
11 nombre d'heures de production locale, en particulier
12 dans le domaine culturel, de même que la présence des
13 Fransaskois sur les émissions du réseau national déjà
14 existantes.
15 1144 Maintenant, la radio française. La
16 programmation diffusée sur les ondes de la radio CBKF
17 Saskatchewan est fort appréciée par les Fransaskois.
18 Les émissions comme "CBKF Bonjour", animé par François
19 Beauregard, et "Jour de plaine", animé par Francis
20 Marchildon sont parmi celles qui sont les plus
21 écoutées. Nous apprécions en outre grandement le fait
22 d'être maintenant en mesure d'entendre la radio en
23 Saskatchewan sept jours sur sept. Mais ces efforts
24 pour accroître le nombre d'heures de production locale
25 ne doivent pas s'arrêter là. Nous aimerions qu'il y
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1 ait encore plus d'émissions produites en Saskatchewan
2 dans les années à venir, à l'exemple de celle produite
3 en direct de Zenon Park en décembre dernier pour
4 souligner la fête de Noël.
5 1145 Les efforts de la radio française de
6 Radio-Canada visant à appuyer le développement des
7 radios communautaires sont aussi très estimés, en
8 particulier ici en Saskatchewan où les radios
9 communautaires en sont à leurs premiers pas. Cela est
10 d'autant plus important d'appuyer les radios
11 communautaires que ces dernières ont un impact majeur
12 sur l'écoute des médias francophones en milieu
13 minoritaire. Le soutien de Radio-Canada en ce domaine
14 est en quelque sorte une avenue importante qui compense
15 un peu l'insuffisance des ressources financières des
16 radios communautaires.
17 1146 Maintenant, pour passer aux chaînes
18 spécialisées. Le développement phénoménal des chaînes
19 spécialisées n'est pas sans affecter les chaînes
20 traditionnelles en raison notamment de la fragmentation
21 de l'auditoire. Nul besoin en effet d'insister
22 longuement sur l'impact négatif que cela engendre au
23 niveau des revenus publicitaires des chaînes
24 traditionnelles, de sorte que pour protéger ses
25 revenus, la Société Radio-Canada n'a d'autre choix que
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1 de créer elle-même ses propres chaînes spécialisées.
2 1147 Mais l'arrivée des chaînes
3 spécialisées n'a pas que des effets négatifs. Elles
4 offrent en effet beaucoup plus de flexibilité dans la
5 programmation que les chaînes traditionnelles en plus
6 d'élargir considérablement l'éventail d'émissions.
7 1148 Pour les Fransaskois, le RDI est
8 particulièrement apprécié puisqu'il agit un peu comme
9 une fenêtre francophone sur l'ensemble du Canada. Le
10 RDI offre en effet aux Canadiens de l'est du pays
11 beaucoup plus de nouvelles sur ce qui se passe dans
12 l'ouest que la chaîne traditionnelle de Radio-Canada et
13 vice-versa. En ce sens, il s'agit-là d'un service tout
14 aussi essentiel que la radio et la télévision française
15 de Radio-Canada. Mais voilà, le RDI n'est pas
16 accessible partout en Saskatchewan.
17 1149 Nous aimerions donc que le signal du
18 RDI soit étendu à toutes les communautés francophones
19 de la Saskatchewan dans un avenir rapproché et qu'il
20 soit même à diffusion obligatoire car, comme nous
21 l'avons souligné précédemment, une chaîne francophone
22 diffusée de façon obligatoire représente plus de choix
23 pour les francophones.
24 1150 Maintenant pour passer à la nécessité
25 d'un financement stable pour la Société Radio-Canada.
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1 Les compressions budgétaires des dernières années ont
2 fait mal à Radio-Canada. En effet, les crédits
3 parlementaires d'exploitation de la Société
4 Radio-Canada ont diminué de 918,2 millions de dollars
5 en 1995-1996 à 759,7 millions de dollars en 1997-1998,
6 passant ainsi sous la barre de 800 millions de dollars.
7 Nous avons des tables à l'appui et la source de ces
8 chiffres-là c'est le Rapport annuel de Radio-Canada.
9 1151 Certes, l'introduction de la
10 publicité dans un certain nombre d'émissions, tels que
11 "Le Téléjournal" par exemple, a permis de réduire
12 quelque peu l'effet des compressions. Mais les revenus
13 de publicité ne peuvent seuls réussir à combler les
14 besoins financiers de la Société Radio-Canada
15 puisqu'ils sont beaucoup moins stables que les crédits
16 parlementaires à cause de la forte concurrence.
17 1152 Il ne faut pas oublier en outre que
18 la Société Radio-Canada est un service public
19 appartenant à tous les Canadiens et non une société
20 commerciale comme le sont la très grande majorité des
21 diffuseurs. Le seul diffuseur public pan-canadien doit
22 être en mesure de remplir la mission pour laquelle il a
23 été mis sur pied, soit celle d'aider les Canadiens et
24 les Canadiennes à mieux comprendre et à apprécier le
25 Canada.
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1 1153 Voilà pourquoi nous appuyons les
2 revendications de la Société Radio-Canada visant à
3 obtenir un financement stable et pluriannuel car, pour
4 répondre adéquatement aux besoins des collectivités
5 canadiennes, il importe en effet que le réseau radio et
6 télévision de la Société Radio-Canada soit doté d'un
7 financement solide et stable pour plusieurs années.
8 1154 Mais au-delà des ressources
9 financières, il y a les ressources humaines. Or, comme
10 le démontre le tableau suivant, les effectifs de la
11 Société Radio-Canada ont diminué au total de 7,6 pour
12 cent depuis 1997. Une telle situation n'est pas sans
13 inquiéter car, pour offrir une programmation
14 diversifiée et de qualité, il importe d'avoir un
15 personnel qualifié et surtout en nombre suffisant.
16 D'autres compressions de personnel risqueraient de
17 mettre en péril la réalisation du mandat de la Société
18 Radio-Canada. Nous avons aussi un tableau qui démontre
19 ces chiffres-là et notre mémoire est disponible après
20 la présentation aussi.
21 1155 Nous désirons tout de même saluer les
22 efforts de la Société Radio-Canada visant à recruter et
23 à former de jeunes stagiaires provenant des régions
24 minoritaires. Il va sans dire également que nous
25 aimerions voir et entendre beaucoup plus d'animateurs
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1 du milieu, à l'exemple de Francis Marchildon sur les
2 ondes de CBKF Saskatchewan. De telles initiatives ne
3 peuvent en effet que renforcer la fierté et le
4 sentiment d'appartenance des Fransaskois. À ce sujet,
5 nous désirons pareillement applaudir l'implication de
6 Radio-Canada dans les activités communautaires de la
7 communauté fransaskoise. Il s'agit-là d'un apport
8 primordial qui n'est pas à dédaigner.
9 1156 En conclusion, la télévision et la
10 radio de la Société Radio-Canada en Saskatchewan ont un
11 rôle primordial dans la sauvegarde, l'épanouissement et
12 le développement de la communauté fransaskoise. Il va
13 sans dire que la disparition ou même la réduction des
14 services à la télévision ou à la radio aurait des
15 effets néfastes pour la communauté fransaskoise aux
16 prises, faut-il le rappeler, avec un taux
17 d'assimilation élevé. En ce sens donc, les services de
18 la Société Radio-Canada en Saskatchewan doivent être
19 maintenus et même étendus davantage.
20 1157 Toutefois, comme nous l'avons
21 souligné dans les pages qui précèdent, la programmation
22 de la Société Radio-Canada, tant à la télévision qu'à
23 la radio, devrait refléter davantage la réalité des
24 Fransaskois. Il serait en outre opportun d'accroître
25 le nombre d'heures de production réalisées en
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1 Saskatchewan car, si la Société Radio-Canada espère
2 faire connaître aux Québécois la réalité des
3 Fransaskois comme l'exige son mandat, il n'y a pas
4 d'autre façon que celle de produire ici des émissions
5 qui seront diffusées sur le réseau national.
6 1158 Nous avons aussi à l'annexe de notre
7 présentation des exemples d'activités communautaires
8 dans lesquelles les membres de la Société Radio-Canada
9 s'impliquent dans leur communauté. Alors, la Société
10 Radio-Canada en Saskatchewan fait partie de la
11 communauté. C'est une composante très, très importante
12 et appréciée.
13 1159 Cela met fin à notre présentation.
14 Merci beaucoup pour votre attention.
15 1160 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Merci.
16 1161 Mr. Secretary.
17 1162 Perhaps we will take a 10-minute
18 break and then we will have the next people come up.
19 1163 Thank you.
20 --- Recess / Pause
21 1164 LA PRÉSIDENTE: On recommence. We
22 will start again if everybody is here.
23 1165 Mr. Secretary.
24 1166 MR. LAHAY: Thank you,
25 Commissioner Cram.
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1 1167 I will go down the list here for the
2 next presenters.
3 1168 Could I have you please raise your
4 hand or indicate yourself, your presence to the
5 Commission so I will know who is and who isn't here,
6 please.
7 1169 Claudia Poirier, Claire
8 Bélanger-Parker; Armand Roy; Stephen Kenny;
9 Jim Elliott, please come forward; Dr. Bromley,
10 Mrs. Bromley; Doug McKay; Ken Chikle; Elmer Hildebrand,
11 if you could please come forward; Dr. Edward Lewis,
12 again, please; Darcy McKenzie; Alex Zypchyn, please
13 come forward, thank you; and Cathy Currey.
14 1952
15 1170 Okay. We will start, please, with
16 Claudia Poirier.
17 1171 I would like to remind everybody,
18 please, to respect the 10-minute limit.
19 1172 Thank you.
20 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
21 1173 MME POIRIER: Bonsoir. Notre
22 présentation va être en français ce soir si ça va.
23 1174 Alors, notre objectif ce soir c'est
24 de faire comprendre l'importance pour la communauté
25 canadienne-française vivant en milieu minoritaire en
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1 Saskatchewan, les Fransaskois et les Fransaskoises, que
2 Radio-Canada voit son mandat reconfirmé pour lui
3 permettre de poursuivre sa mission, d'être une
4 ressource publique qui appartient à tous les Canadiens
5 et Canadiennes.
6 1175 Ce service français et anglais vise à
7 informer, à enrichir et à divertir. Radio-Canada
8 alimente la croissance nationale collective en
9 célébrant la diversité culturelle et régionale du
10 Canada, en tissant des liens entre les diverses
11 collectivités de langues officielles et en incitant les
12 citoyens et citoyennes à participer activement à la vie
13 du pays. Radio-Canada crée, livre et présente des
14 émissions de haut calibre et se distingue des autres et
15 diffuse les meilleures productions étrangères issues
16 des quatre coins du monde.
17 1176 La Division scolaire francophone est
18 responsable de la gestion de douze écoles francophones
19 dispersées à la grandeur de la province. Dans sa
20 situation minoritaire en Saskatchewan, parmi les défis
21 qu'elle doit relever pour bien répondre aux besoins des
22 élèves, il y a l'offre d'occasions d'entendre et de
23 parler en français sur une base quotidienne, l'offre
24 d'un carrefour qui permet aux élèves, sur une base
25 régulière, d'échanger en français et de se connaître
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1 sans se déplacer d'une communauté à l'autre, un accès
2 en français à l'actualité provinciale, nationale et
3 internationale.
4 1177 De par son mandat public,
5 Radio-Canada est l'organisme de choix pour répondre à
6 ces besoins. En nous référant aux champs d'action
7 principaux de la mission de la Société Radio-Canada, la
8 Division scolaire francophone souhaite vous faire
9 connaître les raisons pourquoi Radio-Canada est
10 nécessaire à l'éducation de notre jeunesse ainsi qu'au
11 développement et à l'épanouissement de la communauté
12 fransaskoise vivant en milieu minoritaire.
13 1178 Premier point: Informer, enrichir et
14 divertir. Avec la technologie qui prend une place
15 prépondérante dans la vie de tous les jours, son
16 intégration dans nos systèmes scolaires n'est plus un
17 luxe mais bel et bien une nécessité. Que ce soit un
18 accès à l'actualité, à l'information ou un forum
19 d'échanges publiques pan-canadien en Saskatchewan, le
20 service public de la radio et de la télévision de la
21 Société Radio-Canada est notre seule planche de salut.
22 Aucune radio ou télévision privée, y inclut la radio
23 communautaire, sont en mesure de répondre à nos droits
24 et à nos besoins, encore moins à nos attentes.
25 1179 Deuxième point: Alimenter la
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1 conscience nationale collective en célébrant la
2 diversité culturelle et régionale du Canada. Les
3 Nations-Unies proclament le Canada comme étant un des
4 meilleurs pays dans lequel il fait bon vivre. Si nous
5 voulons garder cette cote d'honneur, deux réalités
6 démographiques doivent nous inciter à maintenir notre
7 ressource publique qu'est Radio-Canada/CBC.
8 1180 Premièrement, tout comme la
9 communauté fransaskoise doit se donner des
10 infrastructures uniques et spécifiques pour surmonter
11 la perte de sa langue et de sa culture à cause de sa
12 situation minoritaire en Saskatchewan, la même réalité
13 s'applique aux Canadiens et Canadiennes par rapport à
14 leur situation minoritaire en Amérique.
15 1181 Deuxièmement, la géographie du pays
16 crée chez nos populations provinciales une tendance à
17 se balkaniser, ce qui nous apporte à oublier que la
18 force et la richesse du Canada est le résultat de sa
19 diversité et du respect de cette diversité. Dans notre
20 monde de technologie et de communication mondiale, les
21 citoyens canadiens seraient perdants si les
22 gouvernements et le CRTC permettaient la disparition de
23 Radio-Canada et de la CBC.
24 1182 Selon la Division scolaire
25 francophone, à l'arrivée du 21e siècle, ce n'est pas
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1 une réduction des services de notre ressource publique
2 de diffusion radiophonique et de télévision qu'il nous
3 faut, mais bien au contraire, c'est une augmentation de
4 services tels la radio et la télévision, RDI, RDH, RDE,
5 et RDC. De choisir le contraire ce n'est pas seulement
6 à la survie de la culture francophone à laquelle il
7 faut dire adieu c'est à la culture canadienne... un
8 point, c'est tout.
9 1183 Troisième point: Tisser les liens
10 entre les diverses collectivités de langues
11 officielles. Cet élément de la mission de la Société
12 démontre encore une fois l'aspect indispensable de la
13 ressource publique qu'est Radio-Canada.
14 1184 Il demeure crucial qu'en tant que
15 Société spécifique canadienne nous sommes les seuls en
16 mesure de comprendre l'importance de ce mandat qui
17 représente deux volets: premièrement, celui d'assurer
18 au regroupement de langues officielles vivant en
19 situation minoritaire de bénéficier d'un service de
20 communication pan-canadien dans leur langue;
21 deuxièmement, notre Société d'état doit promouvoir
22 l'unité nationale en fournissant des forums
23 d'information sociale, communautaire et publique pour
24 permettre aux citoyens et citoyennes d'être informés,
25 de dialoguer et de se questionner. C'est le moyen par
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1 excellence d'assurer que nos diversités et nos
2 priorités régionales soient connues et comprises a mare
3 usque ad mare.
4 1185 Quatrième point: Inciter les
5 citoyens et citoyennes à participer activement à la vie
6 du pays. Pour nous en Saskatchewan cet élément du
7 mandat est bien exécuté dans le cadre de la
8 collaboration de partenariats et de parrainage de
9 projets de développement communautaire tels le
10 Francothon, le Gala fransaskois, d'émissions
11 communautaires, des ateliers techniques pour nos
12 élèves, d'expositions d'arts et de photographie, de La
13 grande dictée fransaskoise, et j'en passe.
14 1186 Cinquième et dernier point: Créer,
15 livrer et présenter des émissions de haut calibre. Cet
16 élément de la mission de la SRC présente des moyens qui
17 lui permettent de continuer à offrir à la communauté
18 fransaskoise, qui inclut les écoles de la Division
19 scolaire fransaskoise, des émissions qui répondent à
20 nos attentes et à nos besoins. Nous pensons à des
21 émissions nationales telles "Le Téléjournal", "Le
22 Point", des documentaires scientifiques, historiques et
23 culturels, RDI, "La Semaine verte", "Second regard",
24 "Découverte", et caetera.
25 1187 En deuxième lieu, il a toute la
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1 programmation provinciale et régionale qui est taillée
2 sur mesure pour nous et souvent avec nous.
3 Quelques-unes de ces productions sont à la télévision:
4 le "Ce Soir", le "Clan destin", "Les petites annonces",
5 "Le reflet des régions", et le projet "Incognito". À
6 la radio, les bulletins de nouvelles, l'émission
7 "L'Ouest Aujourd'hui", "Les contes du monde", "Les
8 petits plaisirs", "Les contes de Noël", "Le grand
9 défi", le "Sept Douze"(ph), et j'en passe.
10 1188 Comme conclusion et en très peu de
11 mots, la Division scolaire francophone a besoin de
12 Radio-Canada pour atteindre ses buts éducatifs dans le
13 21e siècle. Nous comptons sur Radio-Canada non
14 seulement pour maintenir sa programmation régionale
15 actuelle mais de l'intensifier, autant par rapport à la
16 télévision qu'à la radio. Il va donc sans dire que
17 nous exhortons le CRTC de lui reconnaître le mandat de
18 le faire ainsi que lui en donner la responsabilité.
19 1189 Merci.
20 1190 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Merci,
21 Madame Poirier.
22 1191 Mr. Secretary.
23 2006
24 1192 MR. LAHAY: Thank you.
25 1193 Claire Bélanger-Parker, please.
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1 1194 M. BILODEAU: Point d'ordre, Madame
2 la Présidente. Nous avons d'autres engagements ce
3 soir. Est-ce permis de quitter la table?
4 1195 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Oui.
5 1196 M. BILODEAU: Merci beaucoup.
6 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
7 --- Off microphone / Sans microphone
8 1197 MME BÉLANGER-PARKER: ... of the
9 Association canadienne française de Regina. I welcome
10 anyone who wishes to listen to this presentation to use
11 the interpretation receiver. Thank you.
12 1198 Nous désirons remercier les membres
13 du CRTC de nous offrir l'opportunité d'exprimer notre
14 opinion au sujet des services de Radio-Canada en
15 Saskatchewan.
16 1199 L'Association canadienne française de
17 Regina, qui a pour mission de développer et de
18 promouvoir la langue française de Regina, désire
19 aujourd'hui exprimer son sentiment d'appartenance à
20 Radio-Canada.
21 1200 La radio de Radio-Canada c'est une
22 voix, une écoute pour notre communauté! Depuis
23 l'arrivée de la radio française de Radio-Canada en
24 Saskatchewan, L'Association canadienne française de
25 Regina a grandement bénéficié de ses services. La
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1 radio française contribue énormément au développement
2 de la communauté à travers ses reportages et ses
3 émissions spéciales.
4 1201 Certaines émissions sont à caractère
5 très communautaire, faites par des gens d'ici pour des
6 gens d'ici. Ces dernières années, nous avons vu une
7 augmentation des heures de diffusion et c'est au grand
8 plaisir du public. Notre communauté a soif d'une plus
9 grande représentation sur les ondes de Radio-Canada,
10 que ce soit à la radio ou à la télévision.
11 1202 Cette radio a grandement contribué et
12 continue de contribuer à l'ensemble des communautés
13 puisqu'elle nous permet de s'entendre, de se promouvoir
14 et de s'épanouir. Cette radio est à la fois un outil
15 pour nos jeunes et nos aînés et rejoint les Fransaskois
16 et les Fransaskoises dans leur foyer. La radio de
17 Radio-Canada remplit son mandat chez nous. Il y a des
18 moments où elle fait tellement partie de notre
19 quotidien que nous prenons très à coeur leur couverture
20 médiatique, surtout si elle ne nous donne pas l'image
21 que nous espérions refléter.
22 1203 Étant le seul service radiophonique
23 francophone en Saskatchewan, elle est un service
24 essentiel à notre survie, à notre épanouissement et à
25 notre développement. Elle est un outil de francisation
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1 qui touche tous les membres de notre communauté. La
2 nouvelle technologie nous permet maintenant d'accéder à
3 certaines émissions sur Internet. Pour les Fransaskois
4 et les Fransaskoises bien branchés, c'est une autre
5 ressource essentielle à notre survie à Regina en
6 Saskatchewan.
7 1204 Les concours et les émissions
8 permettent à plusieurs auteurs, compositeurs, écrivains
9 et musiciens de faire connaître leurs oeuvres. Les
10 artistes visuels de Regina travaillent étroitement avec
11 la Société Radio-Canada sur des projets comme
12 l'Opération Coeur au ventre, au bénéfice des banques
13 alimentaires de Regina et Saskatoon. Les auteurs
14 compositeurs s'unissent à Radio-Canada pour la réussite
15 du Gala de la chanson fransaskoise. Et ce ne sont que
16 quelques exemples des contributions de Radio-Canada.
17 1205 La télévision de Radio-Canada c'est
18 un regard sur la francophonie canadienne. D'une part,
19 la première chaîne de Radio-Canada a encore beaucoup de
20 chemin à faire pour bien refléter la présence des
21 Fransaskois et des Fransaskoises de Regina. Bien sûr,
22 les équipes de Regina contribuent aux émissions
23 nationales et internationales mais il reste du travail
24 à faire. Les dirigeants de la maison mère de
25 Radio-Canada ont encore des devoirs à faire et le
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1 gouvernement canadien se doit de maintenir et même
2 d'augmenter le financement de notre télévision
3 publique. À Regina, nous jouissons d'une couverture
4 quotidienne des événements qui se passent chez nous,
5 mais c'est bien peu pour une télévision qui se dit le
6 reflet de notre communauté.
7 1206 Afin de bien représenter la
8 communauté fransaskoise, le financement doit être
9 adéquat. Les distances énormes entre les communautés
10 et les compressions budgétaires ne font que réduire la
11 qualité à laquelle nous avons été habitué. La première
12 chaîne de Radio-Canada a perdu son image glorifiante du
13 passé, mais il ne faut pas pour autant l'abandonner.
14 Il faut au contraire l'enrichir d'une couverture
15 nationale où toutes les communautés, québécoises et
16 canadiennes s'y retrouvent.
17 1207 Avec toutes les connaissances de
18 Radio-Canada en Saskatchewan, il serait déplorable de
19 voir notre télévision nationale disparaître. Nous
20 sommes à un point tournant dans l'histoire puisque les
21 communications n'ont plus de barrières. Le monde
22 entier se regarde.
23 1208 D'autre part, l'avènement de RDI a
24 presque révolutionné la vision du Québec envers notre
25 communauté. À maintes et maintes reprises, nous avons
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1 accueilli des Québécois et des Québécoises de passe qui
2 regardaient assidûment les émissions qui touchent les
3 communautés hors Québec, soit "L'Accent francophone",
4 "L'Ouest en direct" et bien d'autres. Grâce à ces
5 émissions, Regina bénéficie aujourd'hui d'une
6 visibilité qui offre des opportunités de développement
7 économique jamais exploitées auparavant.
8 1209 La communauté artistique de Regina
9 bénéficie énormément de la présence de la télévision
10 française. Le Gala de la chanson fransaskoise, la Fête
11 fransaskoise, le Coup de coeur francophone, le Pavillon
12 francophone de Mosaic, sont des manifestations
13 culturelles qui se voient propulseés sur les ondes de
14 RDI, une visibilité extraordinaire pour les artistes
15 francophones de Regina.
16 1210 C'est aussi avec beaucoup
17 d'enthousiasme que nous attendons la venue des chaînes
18 spécialisées comme RDA, le Réseau des Arts, RDE, le
19 Réseau de l'Économie, et RDH, le Réseau de l'Histoire.
20 Nous doutons un peu de la bonne volonté de notre
21 câblodistributeur de mettre ces réseaux à notre
22 disposition puisque même RDI, le Réseau de
23 l'Information, n'est pas accessible à tous.
24 1211 Plusieurs pressions ont été faites
25 auprès de notre câblodistributeur afin d'avoir accès
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1 aux services de RDI sur le service de base. Nos
2 plaintes sont tombées dans l'oreille d'un sourd. RDI
3 se retrouve dans un forfait avec les chaînes Treehouse,
4 CNBC et PBS Seattle, soit trois chaînes américaines qui
5 n'ont rien à voir avec les besoins des communautés
6 francophones.
7 1212 Nous implorons le CRTC de changer ses
8 règlements en ce qui a trait à RDI. L'Association
9 canadienne française de Regina vous demande d'exiger
10 que RDI soit disponible sur le service de base. C'est
11 une nécessité chez nous.
12 1213 En terminant, il faut toujours se
13 rappeler que la radio et la télévision française jouent
14 un rôle essentiel dans le développement et
15 l'épanouissement de notre communauté. Soyez à l'écoute
16 des besoins des communautés francophones hors Québec.
17 1214 Nous sommes heureux que vous ayez
18 accordé à TVA un accès au service de base. Toutefois,
19 nous avons certaines réserves à ce que TVA pourra
20 offrir comme couverture médiatique des événements
21 francophones hors Québec. RDI fait déjà un excellent
22 travail. Pourquoi ne pas lui accorder aussi cette
23 licence?
24 1215 Il faut continuer d'augmenter les
25 productions locales afin de mieux refléter notre
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1 milieu. Radio-Canada fait partie du quotidien des
2 francophones de Regina depuis le début du siècle. Sans
3 sa présence, nous oublierons tout doucement ce qui est
4 l'essence de notre identité et nous serons tout
5 doucement oubliés par les six millions sept cents mille
6 francophones qui font la richesse de notre pays.
7 1216 Merci.
8 1217 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Merci,
9 Madame Bélanger-Parker.
10 1218 Mr. Secretary.
11 2013
12 1219 MR. LAHAY: Thank you.
13 1220 Armand Roy, please.
14 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
15 1221 MR. ROY: Thank you.
16 1222 First of all, I just wanted to make a
17 comment that the acting President of our local was
18 supposed to join me tonight and wasn't able to because
19 of the incidences in the labour dispute, so I will be
20 making this presentation on my own.
21 1223 Who we are is the communications,
22 energy and paperworkers who are on strike at the CBC at
23 the moment in Regina. We represent the technicians and
24 the designers at the CBC.
25 1224 We adamantly say that we are in
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1 favour of renewing the CBC's licence. It is our intent
2 in this presentation to alert the CRTC to our concerns
3 for the future of public broadcasting in Canada. We
4 feel very strongly that the CBC has lost the intent of
5 its mandate and that its licence renewal should be
6 based upon delivery of programming to all Canadians
7 about all Canadians.
8 1225 Throughout the last 15 years the CBC
9 has suffered from continuous, unrelenting cuts. The
10 staff and budget have been reduced by more than half
11 since 1985. Despite this, the corporation has
12 continued to attempt to provide award-winning,
13 internationally acclaimed, creative programming to
14 Canadians. Attempting to run French and English radio,
15 French and English television, RDI, CBC Newsworld, as
16 well as CBC North is no small task when faced with
17 budget restrictions that have been imposed.
18 1226 The unions have fought hard to make
19 Canadians aware of the plight of CBC. We have
20 co-operated with CBC management to reach agreements
21 which would assist the corporation during its financial
22 difficulties because of our belief in the value of
23 public broadcasting.
24 1227 I can cite, for example, that I was
25 in the last round of negotiations and we made many
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1 concessions in order to help CBC get through its
2 turmoil.
3 1228 In our view, public broadcasting is
4 an essential element of the fabric of Canada. We have
5 seen the private media concentrated into larger and
6 larger media empires. These monopolies tend to build
7 their empires on American-based programming schedules
8 with only a minimum of legislated and monitored
9 Canadian content. The CBC offers a truly Canadian
10 alternative to the profit-making motives of private
11 broadcasters, all the while presenting programs which
12 have achieved numerous awards and still maintain a
13 credible audience share despite the multi-channel
14 universe.
15 1229 But now we find the CBC is at a very
16 delicate crossroad. According to the CBC and the
17 federal government, stable funding has now been
18 established. The CBC is claiming that further cuts are
19 no longer an issue. Our strike is based on that
20 belief. Our members have taken the brunt of the
21 downsizing efforts and have accepted wage settlements
22 that have virtually amounted to reductions in income.
23 Today we are asking for a reasonable settlement
24 reflecting the industry standards of the talent and
25 high skills we possess.
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1 1230 Our concern is the CBC and the
2 federal government may use recent events to justify
3 reductions in service to Canadians. We have felt
4 immense pressure upon regional broadcasting. In
5 Regina, we once produced numerous local and regional
6 programs which were broadcast across Saskatchewan and
7 in many cases across Canada. CBC English television in
8 Saskatchewan now produces approximately eight hours of
9 programming a week, all of which is news and current
10 affairs.
11 1231 French regional television
12 broadcasting does even less.
13 1232 Even in radio, the amount of locally
14 produced programs have been reduced dramatically.
15 1233 In addition, CBC Saskatchewan is no
16 longer a separate region. It is now part of the
17 prairie region and administered in Winnipeg.
18 1234 The CBC has been a great contributor
19 to the community of Canada by providing a voice of
20 Canadians, by Canadians, to Canadians. The
21 contributions made by the regions have been invaluable
22 in allowing CBC to meet its mandate. Today this has
23 been severely injured. Our strike is not only about
24 money and job security, but it is about saving the CBC
25 from itself. If the CBC sees fit to eliminate regional
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1 broadcasting, we feel it won't be long before the
2 public broadcaster will lose its relevance and its very
3 existence. The pressure to privatize the CBC has never
4 been greater.
5 1235 If CBC is to continue to meet its
6 objectives and its mandate, the CRTC must issue its
7 licence ensuring the continuation and expansion of
8 regional broadcasting. How else are Canadians going to
9 learn about each other? Communication is the catalyst
10 to nation building. CBC is the recognized communicator
11 for the voice of all Canadians.
12 1236 We are afraid the CBC may become a
13 centralist broadcaster with all programming being
14 generated at the Toronto or Montreal broadcast centres.
15 Already all the decision making is relegated to the
16 Toronto, Montreal, Windsor corridor. This certainly
17 does not reflect the rest of Canada. We have seen too
18 many initiatives at the CBC which have led us to
19 believe our views are not without substance.
20 1237 In 1985 Midday was a regional program
21 produced locally with local content. Today it is a
22 nationally produced program with no regional content.
23 In 1990, besides the local news, Switchback and Country
24 West were among many of the locally produced programs.
25 Today we produce only regional news.
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1 1238 Even that is at risk. The launch of
2 the new regionally broadcast supper hour news program
3 was filled with work that was once done locally. The
4 logo for the program was designed in Vancouver. The
5 set was designed and built in Toronto. On top of that,
6 many of the functions which made local CBC productions
7 unique to Saskatchewan have been reduced or eliminated.
8 1239 Often the argument is made that the
9 money once slated to the CBC to produce arts and drama
10 could have been put to better use by directing it to
11 independent producers for co-productions. In fact,
12 although some of the effects of this have been very
13 positive, the affect on CBC regional facilities has
14 been very detrimental.
15 1240 The Broadcast Centre in Regina has
16 now less activity than CBC did when it worked out of
17 facilities in Moose Jaw in 1975. In the design
18 department alone, the employees have been reduced from
19 a complement of eight in 1983 to one today. Much of
20 the state-of-the-art equipment lies idle.
21 1241 Several private and public interests
22 in Saskatchewan have shown to us their concern that the
23 studios in Regina may end up slated for some other
24 federal government departments. This would be a
25 travesty. Built in 1983, the Regina Broadcast Centre
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1 is CBC's most modern regional facility.
2 1242 As participants in the community, we
3 are often faced with questions of our presence at news
4 and community events. Local politicians, labour
5 groups, and community and sports organizations
6 regularly complain or comment on the lack of CBC
7 presence at important events. This is a far cry from
8 the days when the public complained about too many CBC
9 staff.
10 1243 There is little the CRTC can do to
11 increase funding to the CBC, as that is the role of
12 government. But in your capacity as the regulator and
13 administrator of broadcasting licences, you can direct
14 the CBC to protect those interests that best serve
15 Canadians. We firmly believe that the protection and
16 re-establishment of a strong regional CBC will achieve
17 the mandate of both the CBC and the expectations of
18 Canadians.
19 1244 In summary, we believe in public
20 broadcasting and, in particular, in the CBC. We
21 believe the CBC should be a reflection of Canada's
22 diverse regions. Thirdly, any licence renewal should
23 be conditional upon the re-establishment of CBC's
24 regional and local contribution.
25 1245 Thank you for entertaining our
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1 presentation. We trust you will consider our points in
2 renewing the CBC's licence.
3 1246 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Roy.
4 1247 Mr. Secretary.
5 1248 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
6 2020
7 1249 Stephen Kenny.
8 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
9 1250 M. KENNY: Bonsoir, mesdames et
10 messieurs. Je m'appelle Steve Kenny et je suis
11 professeur d'histoire au Collège Campion de
12 l'Université de Regina. Dans la petite communauté
13 d'historiens ici à Regina, j'enseigne des cours sur la
14 période entre la conquête et la Confédération ainsi que
15 des cours sur les rapports canado-américains et les
16 rapports entre Canadiens d'expression anglaise et
17 française.
18 1251 Je vais suivre une approche un peu
19 différente, plutôt personnelle. Je suis ici pour
20 soutenir le renouvellement de la licence de
21 Radio-Canada et CBC et naturellement pour louanger la
22 Société.
23 1252 En guise de préface et à titre
24 personnel, j'aimerais vous dire qu'avant de venir en
25 Saskatchewan il y a à peu près quinze ans, j'ai
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1 enseigné l'histoire du Canada à l'Université du Vermont
2 à Burlington, dans le département d'histoire là-bas.
3 C'était une expérience et un moment tournant dans ma
4 vie personnelle, et le contraste de ma situation alors
5 m'a frappé et me frappe toujours.
6 1253 Bien entendu, je pesais moins,
7 j'étais plus jeune, mes enfants étaient de l'âge de
8 l'école maternelle et la petite école, et là-bas, 60-70
9 kilomètres de la frontière du Québec et Vermont, une
10 heure et demie de la métropole montréalaise, il
11 n'existait pas la moindre possibilité de faire éduquer
12 mes enfants en français. Je ne pouvais même pas
13 acheter un journal d'expression française.
14 1254 Dans mes cours à Burlington, j'avais
15 des étudiants franco-américains de troisième et
16 quatrième génération qui avaient complètement perdu
17 leur francité, langue et culture. Plus qu'une fois,
18 les vieux, en nous entendant parler français, même dans
19 la rue des fois, s'arrêtaient pour parler à mes enfants
20 en nous expliquant que leurs propres petits-enfants ne
21 parlaient plus un mot de français, des fois avec des
22 larmes aux yeux.
23 1255 Ma femme et moi, vivant ce que les
24 sociologues caractérisent un mariage exogame, moi
25 anglophone, elle francophone, avons décidé d'insister
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1 sur le français à la maison. Pas de danger que nos
2 enfants allaient accaparer l'anglais aux États-Unis.
3 Par miracle, un de nos seuls soutiens, Radio-Canada,
4 était avec nous par le truchement du câble. Mes
5 enfants ont grandi avec "Bobino et Bobinette", "Belle
6 et Sébastien", "Passe-partout" et compagnie et j'en
7 suis fort reconnaissant. Il ne faut pas me demander si
8 je considère Radio-Canada comme primordial et essentiel
9 à la bonne santé de la communauté francophone à
10 l'extérieur du Québec.
11 1256 J'aimerais bien vous souligner que la
12 Société Radio-Canada est le seul et unique radio et
13 télédiffuseur voué à une programmation principalement
14 canadienne en anglais et en français à travers le pays.
15 Bien évidemment, là-dessus, je ne vous apprends rien si
16 ce n'est pas pour vous rappeler que d'autres
17 compagnies, d'autres chaînes ne sont pas engagées dans
18 cette même voie. Pire, elles ont résisté une
19 programmation canadienne, et sans entrer dans les
20 détails, toute personne qui parle français en
21 Saskatchewan et dans l'ouest canadien sait
22 l'obstination et le refus des chaînes privées et les
23 compagnies de câble d'augmenter ou d'améliorer leurs
24 services en français au-delà de leur obligation légale
25 et minimale.
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1 1257 J'ai été touché par la présentation
2 de l'intervenant avant moi, M. Roy, et je regrette
3 énormément que ces consultations que vous menez cette
4 semaine tombent dans un contexte particulièrement
5 difficile et critique pour la Société: grève de
6 techniciens, menace de grève de journalistes,
7 discussions hautement politiques de la présidence,
8 baisse des cotes d'écoute, démoralisation et des cadres
9 et du personnel suite à plusieurs années de
10 compressions budgétaires, de restructuration et de
11 diminution tout court.
12 1258 Beaucoup de gens, particulièrement
13 ceux qui sont hostiles à Radio-Canada et CBC, voient
14 peut-être le moment propice pour livrer le coup de
15 grâce. Bien évidemment, je ne suis pas parmi ces
16 gens-là.
17 1259 À mon avis, le défi de Radio-Canada
18 en tant que radio et télédiffuseur national est de
19 suivre un chemin équilibré entre la tradition et
20 l'innovation. Bien entendu, ceci est beaucoup plus
21 facile à dire que d'accomplir. Pourtant, je suis
22 hanté, et je dois le dire, outré, par ceux des deux
23 côtés de la frontière linguistique qui prétendent que
24 nous devons abandonner notre engagement et notre
25 soutien du français et de l'anglais dans le cadre de
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1 Radio-Canada.
2 1260 Je pense particulièrement à une
3 phrase il y a quelques années du romancier, Beauchemin
4 qui réfléchissait sur les communautés francophones à
5 l'extérieur du Québec comme étant... il les
6 caractérisait comme étant des cadavres toujours chauds.
7 1261 Aucun être n'est parfait. Aucune
8 institution. Radio-Canada non plus. Tandis que je
9 reconnais la tension naturelle entre les grands centres
10 de production et les marges, je regrette un peu le
11 manque d'attention pour les régions. Du côté des
12 régions, je regrette un peu la haute priorité donnée
13 dans les régions à couvrir que des régions.
14 J'aimerais, par exemple, personnellement, avoir accès
15 ici en Saskatchewan à la chaîne culturelle à la radio,
16 et ensuite.
17 1262 Le fait que nous parlons le français
18 à Regina en Saskatchewan, à Pointe-de-l'Église(ph) en
19 Nouvelle-Écosse, à Caraquet au Nouveau-Brunswick, à
20 Rivière Canard(ph) en Ontario et ainsi de suite, est dû
21 en grande partie au simple fait que nous avons accès à
22 toute cette communauté par l'intermédiaire de la
23 Société Radio-Canada et que la lutte et l'engagement
24 continuent.
25 1263 Je vous remercie.
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1 1264 LA PRÉSIDENTE: Merci,
2 Monsieur Kenny.
3 1265 Mr. Secretary.
4 1266 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
5 2030
6 1267 Jim Elliott.
7 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
8 1268 MR. ELLIOTT: Madam Chairman, ladies
9 and gentlemen, Commissioner, before I make my
10 presentation, I will let you know that I do have a
11 written copy of at least the basics of it. I have done
12 some editing over the day, so bear with me.
13 1269 Before I make some suggestions around
14 different points or parts of the CBC radio and
15 television system, I would like to make a broad
16 statement.
17 1270 I think that CBC radio and television
18 is essentially the infrastructure that is keeping this
19 country together. To me and to a lot of people that I
20 have been talking to over the past few weeks, the CBC
21 is in fact the only place where we can get information
22 about ourselves, information about different parts of
23 the country and, in fact, information about the rest of
24 the world.
25 1271 This goes all the way through the
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1 after hours rebroadcasting of other national public
2 broadcasters such as Australia and South Africa, and
3 even into Britain and France and Germany, it goes from
4 that to our local news hours as well as into what I
5 would consider a mechanism for getting a regional voice
6 into the system, because it is very few places that you
7 run into shows like Cross Country Checkup where you can
8 in fact phone from anywhere in the country and put
9 forward your comments on a specific issue.
10 1272 CBC radio, in that sense, I look at
11 it as being the community centre of this country or
12 this community that we call Canada. Within that you
13 have a support structure. You have a system of rooms
14 or places where people can gather and talk. You also
15 have a chance for people to get to know each other, to
16 introduce themselves to other people and you are not
17 necessarily seen as being an outsider when you are in
18 that room or in that community centre.
19 1273 Now, since I'm still quite behind in
20 the sense of systems, I still have a radio that you
21 actually have to turn the dial to change the channels.
22 With that, in fact, I think, in a nutshell, it
23 encourages me just to leave it where it is, which is
24 CBC. I don't change it that often.
25 1274 I also, in some cases, fall asleep to
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1 the radio at night and in fact I have woken up at three
2 o'clock in the morning and listened to what is
3 happening in Germany for 15 to 20 minutes and then go
4 back to sleep. It's quite an interesting chance when
5 you get a chance to listen to some of the other
6 national broadcasters around the world. What we
7 typically think of is what's happening in various
8 countries on various problems, whether it is a war or
9 uprisings or economic things. Getting it from their
10 perspective I think has a value, and in that respect
11 the CBC is providing that same value, both to our own
12 residents but also probably to the world in the sense
13 of what we do as -- and when we broadcast our signals
14 around the world.
15 1275 I think the CBC is also critical when
16 we are trying to understand what is happening in
17 Saskatchewan because, again, there are very few radio
18 stations in this province that will broadcast things
19 that are happening all over the province. They will
20 take a certain amount of regional bias to it, but they
21 generally won't take much more than maybe what is
22 happening in Regina because it's a government city,
23 that type of thing, or maybe a university issue, or
24 something like that, or they may pick up Saskatoon and
25 Prince Albert forestry issues, but very few kind of
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1 take in the whole gamut of issues and programs around
2 the province.
3 1276 As I'm also I guess part of a growing
4 community in this country that doesn't have a lot of
5 access to a lot of resources, whether that's monetary
6 or other, I'm stuck with basically the four channels of
7 television in Regina, the two privates and two publics.
8 1277 Now, again, part of my interest in
9 the CBC is Canadian content, whether that is Canadian
10 broadcasting about what is going on in different areas
11 in the sense of a news broadcast, whether that's
12 Canadian stories such as what is happening in Big Bear
13 and some of the maritime ones and even some of the
14 northern ones like North of 60, also, the Canadian news
15 because, again, I like to know what is going on in this
16 country perhaps more than I do about what is going on
17 in the rest of the world. If I have that choice, I
18 clearly stay within the CBC.
19 1278 Now, I have put together about nine
20 points that I am going to run through as some
21 suggestions and some ideas around making some
22 modifications or looking at things a little bit
23 differently.
24 1279 In respect to the rebroadcasting of
25 The National, I think it would be a better approach
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1 to -- I think someone else had mentioned before
2 sandwiching the local stuff within the context of the
3 rebroadcast of The National. It's just as everybody is
4 generally getting older these days, the idea of trying
5 to stay up until 11:30, you know, or a quarter to 12:00
6 just to hear -- watch the news hour isn't going to
7 happen, so you are likely then to go to other local
8 broadcasters such as Global. They broadcast at 10:30,
9 so you can get your local news well beyond that and
10 people will be going to bed much earlier than that.
11 1280 So even to that extent I would almost
12 say put the News Magazine after the local news as well.
13 That again may encourage more interest in our local
14 broadcasting.
15 1281 I think in some aspects there is too
16 much priority put on professional sports. I hazard a
17 guess that if anybody doesn't want to watch television
18 on Saturday night, you know, most people are either
19 turning the TV off or they are unfortunately maybe
20 having to wander through the hockey to find out when
21 the news is because sometimes they put it in
22 intermission, sometimes they will put it at the end of
23 a game, you know. So you have basically hockey going
24 from 5:30 in the afternoon until well past 11:00 and
25 you are clearly not going to gain much in the market
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1 share if that's the package that is going to be
2 presented.
3 1282 Again, I'm not necessarily counting
4 all of the sports broadcasting. I think clearly we
5 have to be in a position of presenting ourselves to
6 ourselves in the sense of I would be very happy,
7 probably quite happy to sit there for three hours and
8 watch a Regina Pat's game. Like, I've never
9 necessarily made the effort to go out there, but it
10 would be worthwhile, I think, in my sense, to look at
11 something like that or even in other television
12 stations. They do broadcasts of things like curling
13 and a variety of other local initiatives.
14 1283 The third one is the regional news I
15 think should be given a higher priority than some of
16 the international stuff. I think I have run into
17 enough people these days, almost to the point where if
18 I hear of one person, you know, or hear one more news
19 broadcast about people like Monica Lewinsky or
20 O.J. Simpson, Newt Gingrich type of thing, I think
21 there is probably going to be a few shoes thrown
22 through the TV channels -- or the TV, I should say.
23 1284 One of the things which I guess --
24 because I do flip through the CBC French TV, one thing
25 I have found is that even just watching the visual part
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1 of the news, because unfortunately I can't take in all
2 of what people are saying and the commentary that goes
3 with it, I'm getting a sense of in fact things that are
4 happening in Quebec that even we aren't hearing about.
5 Again, I'm not sure whether that's just a matter of it
6 is not being seen as a priority within our national
7 listing of what comes on the news. But again I hear
8 things about Quebec Hydro and various other fights, you
9 know, discussions and all that, and we don't hear
10 anything about that out here.
11 1285 Maybe I may have to take a little
12 more effort and perhaps learn a little bit more French
13 so that I will in fact be able to understand what they
14 are talking about.
15 1286 Number five was looking at
16 performance arts and, again, more of that on the
17 television. Even radio, I think it is quite strong in
18 that area, so I don't think we necessarily have to do
19 more of that, but just maintain a certain amount of
20 regional support for that.
21 1287 But I think on the television, I
22 look, and again I look at some of the stuff that I have
23 seen through -- I don't know whether it is
24 retrospective or in fact sometimes when they can't seem
25 to find a good thing to put in that slot, so they just
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1 throw something in that was broadcast 20 years ago. I
2 look at some of the performance art going on, like the
3 music performances. I'm just wondering why we are not
4 doing more of that in the sense of things like
5 symphonies and even local stuff, you know, in the sense
6 of: Why is it not appropriate for us to be recording
7 and broadcasting the Regina Symphony concert
8 nationally? Like, I don't see a reason why we
9 shouldn't be doing that.
10 1288 The next one is around some of the
11 shows that are currently going national. Now, as it
12 turns out, I grew up on Peter Gzowski and Vicki
13 Gabereau and a few other people, so to the idea of
14 listening to someone different and doing a different
15 process, it seems to have lost some of the sparkle in
16 it. Again, I'm not sure whether that necessarily is
17 attached with the personalities that are on the radio
18 or whether it is the formatting. But in my mind, you
19 know, it doesn't sound like it was the same or it is
20 the same as it was before.
21 1289 Obviously, you have heard a lot over
22 the past hours here, and I suspect even before you got
23 here and probably after you leave, about the adequate
24 resource support for such a broadcaster. I think just
25 to even consider returning things to a level of where
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1 they were before, I think that it is clear there is
2 going to have to be money put there. I guess I would
3 encourage you to be as strong as you can to the powers
4 that be about what the people have told you and how
5 much they value from what you have seen and heard over
6 this time.
7 1290 The last one I'm going to put is
8 around what I'm calling journalistic integrity of the
9 news system. Again, it's principally the TV news that
10 I have been picking up on. I think in some aspects we
11 are starting to begin to get -- I guess politely
12 calling it -- political and administrative interference
13 in what in fact a reporter can or cannot report on. I
14 think we clearly need to be -- looking at the news is
15 not a just a show that we try to create ratings around,
16 but in fact it's an accurate report of what is in fact
17 happening.
18 1291 I think, as we have seen in some
19 cases with the amateur video slipping into the process
20 and various other television systems, unfortunately,
21 unless we want to see that happening in Canada more, we
22 will be probably seeing that happening in this
23 broadcasting system as well.
24 1292 Now, I guess the last thing I will
25 point to -- and this is I guess my attempt to try to
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1 figure out a jargonistic type of description of what in
2 fact I have been trying to describe to you, and I
3 apologize in the sense that it is not entirely my ideas
4 or my issue but it is more of a mixture of a couple of
5 individuals' comments -- I guess when I look at the
6 CBC, I see basically a mind virus checker in the sense
7 that the mind is continually getting a lot of
8 information, both digital and audio, coming into its
9 system, whether that's through its ears and eyes or
10 whether it is just around it in the sense of the heat
11 and light and that type of thing. We have all been
12 hearing a little bit of noise around us and we have an
13 ability to block some of that stuff from getting into
14 the system and in fact creating problems.
15 1293 What I see is in fact the CBC is that
16 system of keeping things relevant, keeping things -- I
17 guess, you know, questioning what is going on, like,
18 "Why are you thinking that way", you know, "What's the
19 problem? Can we work it out? Let's hear what you have
20 to say", type of thing, because, unfortunately, I think
21 I see, if we don't have that process of stopping those
22 viruses or those ideas from infiltrating our community
23 and our country, we will begin to have parts of it not
24 knowing what the other parts are doing.
25 1294 Again I think we are finding that out
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1 now. In fact, what will happen is your right foot will
2 be trying to go forward and your left foot will be
3 actually trying to figure out if it should be going
4 backwards. You know, I think very quickly you can see
5 that you are going to be in a position where it is
6 going to be very unstable. You are going to begin to
7 start seeing I guess further divisions, further cracks
8 developing.
9 1295 I think other than the fact of the
10 CBC being here, there is a lot of things that will get
11 worse if we don't take the effort to both encourage the
12 strength and promises of the CBC, but also discourage
13 some of the negative stuff.
14 1296 Thank you.
15 1297 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
16 Mr. Elliott.
17 1298 Mr. Secretary.
18 1299 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
19 1300 I would just like to quickly run down
20 a few names here to make sure that nobody got missed.
21 I wasn't sure if everybody came to the table on the
22 last call.
23 1301 Dr. Bromley, would you come to the
24 table please, and Mrs. Bromley.
25 1302 And Doug McKay, Ken Chikle.
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1 2047
2 1303 Mr. Bromley, would you like to
3 proceed next on the list?
4 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
5 1304 DR. BROMLEY: Thank you,
6 Madam Chairman. I'm sorry I'm late.
7 1305 I think I should, first of all, give
8 you a short summary of who I am.
9 1306 I came to Canada in 1964. I am from
10 Myanmar, Burma. I was born there. I was educated in
11 India. My family were from England. So I have seen a
12 variety of broadcasting in India, the BBC; the
13 Netherlands, Patavia and Java; and now Canada.
14 1307 It's very important that I say
15 something about it. My presentation is very, very
16 short. I corroborate what has been said and have
17 something to add to that.
18 1308 The function of the CRTC.
19 1309 The CRTC has been given a mandate by
20 the citizens of Canada to act as stewards to take care
21 of the CBC, a national institution, and to ensure that
22 the CBC is able to function efficiently and adequately
23 according to the wishes and interests of the citizens
24 of Canada.
25 1310 I have put the burden, the onus on
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1 the CRTC.
2 1311 The function of the CBC: The
3 unifying bond. The CBC is the glue which keeps this
4 large country together by informing its people of what
5 is happening in the rest of the country and also
6 locally.
7 1312 A sense of history. We would propose
8 introduction of First Nation broadcasting. It will
9 give the Canadian people their sense of history with
10 progressive occupation by foreigners, with its present
11 multicultural and multiracial mix, and the acceptance
12 of reality to move forward. We know who we came from,
13 who occupied the country.
14 1313 Information. To supply accurate and
15 trustworthy news by journalists of the highest calibre
16 uninfluenced by politicians or business. The public
17 trusts the journalists more than they do the
18 politicians and they will be remembered longer than the
19 politicians, examples, Barbara Frum and Peter Gzowski.
20 1314 Recreation. Whether this be sports,
21 music, drama, plays or stand-up comics, the CBC has
22 been superb. I know there is a move to try to cut down
23 the sports, but if some like sports, excessive sport
24 programming, let them have it if that keeps the
25 Canadian bonds together.
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1 1315 A forum of discussion. Open-line
2 shows allow the public to present their views and
3 opinions.
4 1316 Advertising. This should not be
5 allowed on CBC radio. This service is unique the way
6 it is and should not be allowed to deteriorate into the
7 cacophony we hear on our radio systems.
8 1317 On the public deal, CBC. We bracket
9 the CBC in the same way in which we bracket Canadian
10 unity, medicare and education. We all but try the
11 politicians who will to try to emasculate any of these
12 national ideals.
13 1318 Thank you. That's all I have to say.
14 1319 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
15 Dr. Bromley.
16 1320 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
17 2050
18 1321 Elmer Hildebrand.
19 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
20 1322 MR. HILDEBRAND: Thank you.
21 1323 Madam Chair, Commissioners and
22 guests, I'm here today to share my views as a private
23 broadcaster about the CBC as it relates mainly to CBC
24 radio.
25 1324 Personally, I have been in the
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1 broadcast business since 1957 and have watched the
2 radio process since we first got a broadcast licence
3 from the CBC at that time, which preceded the BBG and
4 the CRTC in licensing private radio operators in
5 Canada.
6 1325 In 1957, we started small. We
7 operated a 1,000 watt radio station in Altona,
8 Manitoba -- the population at that time was 1,800 in
9 that community -- with staff of nine people. Today we
10 operate 12 radio stations, employing 200 people in the
11 three prairie provinces.
12 1326 As the years unfolded, it became
13 obvious to me that in Canada we probably have the best
14 system of radio service anywhere in the world. Our
15 blend of private and national radio is unique and could
16 be even better with the proper focus.
17 1327 As I became involved in the industry
18 during the seventies and eighties and nineties, I was
19 involved with a variety of trade organizations in the
20 industry. I often made the comment that if the CBC
21 wasn't as predatory and concentrated on broad general
22 service, as opposed to trying to be local, the country
23 would be even better served.
24 1328 Even today, the CBC tries to compete
25 in offering a full local service in metro markets, even
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1 though there is already very adequate local service
2 provided by many local broadcasters.
3 1329 During my tenure as Chair of the
4 Canadian Association of Broadcasters, Pierre Juneau was
5 the Chair at CBC. We met and I suggested we should be
6 working together more and not trying to trip each other
7 up. He agreed. But shortly thereafter, he left his
8 post at the CBC and I could not move the process
9 forward with his successor.
10 1330 Later on, I had many discussions with
11 your current President, and also with Harold Redekopp,
12 who runs CBC Radio, about how we might co-operate.
13 1331 Since CBC has the largest news
14 operation in Canada, and maybe in North America for
15 that matter, I suggested that they be the national news
16 supplier to the private radio broadcasters. As a
17 result, an historic trial process was ultimately
18 launched with our Manitoba network of radio stations
19 where we carried hourly news reports live from the CBC
20 National Newsroom. This process worked very well and
21 we were certainly prepared to make a long-term
22 commitment with the CBC. But probably because the CBC
23 can't make decisions easily or quickly, they could
24 never determine what to charge for this service. What
25 started as a 13-week trial period was extended to
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1 26 weeks and still no long-term arrangement. While the
2 bureaucrats at the CBC tried to determine a fee, the
3 idea withered and died on the vine.
4 1332 In my opinion, the CBC, with its huge
5 annual allotment from the Canadian taxpayer, should
6 concentrate on broad national issues and stay away from
7 trying to provide local service. At the very best,
8 today they scratch the surface in the top eight or nine
9 metropolitan markets with their local attempts, and in
10 the process still leave out most Canadians.
11 1333 Private broadcasters can readily do
12 the local service much better. They are flexible,
13 mobile, while the CBC is rigid, inflexible and moves
14 with the speed of molasses.
15 1334 I think in a few years much of the
16 overstaffing at the CBC may have been rectified through
17 lay offs, retirement and attrition, as a new leaner CBC
18 could provide a truly national Canadian service without
19 further assistance from the taxpayer.
20 1335 I agree with many of the people that
21 have been speaking here tonight. The CBC is unique and
22 they can provide a national service that local
23 broadcasters cannot provide. They can provide time for
24 drama, for arts, and for a lot of other similar
25 programs that the private broadcasters don't have the
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1 budgets to even start to do. But the CBC can do that
2 and I maintain they should do more of that and not try
3 to be local because they can't be both.
4 1336 The mood of the country seems to be
5 "No more money for the CBC from the public purse." I
6 think if we, the private broadcasters and the CBC, work
7 together Canada will be even better served than it is
8 at the present time.
9 1337 Thank you.
10 1338 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
11 Mr. Hildebrand.
12 1339 Mr. Secretary.
13 1340 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
14 2056
15 1341 Dr. Edward Lewis.
16 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
17 1342 DR. LEWIS: Thank you.
18 1343 Madam Chairperson, Members of the
19 CRTC, and members of the community, thank you very much
20 for allowing me to have the opportunity to have some
21 input in this process.
22 1344 I am a professor of music at the
23 University of Regina. The doctor part is a Ph.D. in
24 performance and composition.
25 1345 I have been listening to many views.
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1 I would first like to say, as the circular asks, what
2 the CBC means to me.
3 1346 I am an immigrant to Canada. I have
4 been here 26 years. I am a Canadian citizen. I came
5 from the United States. I want to say that I served in
6 the United States Army during Vietnam and then chose to
7 come to Canada. Part of the reason that I chose to
8 come to Canada was the CBC.
9 1347 When I heard of a country that
10 supports arts, supports artists, has the internal
11 integrity to broadcast what is not commercially viable
12 but is artistically sound, that's a place that I
13 thought I might want to live and I would want to bring
14 my family here and bring up my two daughters and my
15 wife. That's one of the reasons that I'm here.
16 1348 When I got to Canada in 1974, it was
17 very important for me to find, to identify a Canadian
18 cultural identity. I have to tell you I did a lot of
19 searching.
20 1349 I went to the movies. I saw a
21 Canadian movie. It certainly wasn't something that I
22 would say would be a Canadian identity. It was a cops
23 and robbers movie copied after a typical cops and
24 robbers movie. I went to some plays. They were all
25 stuff from the U.S.
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1 1350 Where I found a distinct and unique
2 Canadian identity was CBC Radio. I found Canadian
3 humour. I found a Canadian view of looking at things.
4 It's very different than the United States and anywhere
5 else I have been. I found that the CBC itself, with no
6 advertising, was so great because I was listening to
7 Canada. I could hear viewpoints from all over the
8 country. I could hear local viewpoints. I could begin
9 to understand how Canadians think and what Canada is
10 because of CBC Radio.
11 1351 So I have to say that CBC Radio is
12 and was very important to me.
13 1352 In my field, in music, when I first
14 got here, I had no idea what the rest of the country
15 was doing. I have a Masters from Julliard, a Bachelors
16 from Eastman, and a Ph.D. from NYU. I was primarily
17 classically trained but I do a lot of jazz as well, and
18 one of the things that I do is the jazz program at the
19 university.
20 1353 In 1975 I saw a CBC program that
21 covered the Canadian National Jazz Competition. No
22 other station would have covered that because it isn't
23 commercially viable. By seeing the winners, who
24 happened to be hombre, it inspired me to think we can
25 produce in Saskatchewan a jazz program that's
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1 competitive with the east and with the west. We did
2 and we won the national championships two years later
3 because of CBC television and that CBC was able to
4 broadcast something that other channels couldn't
5 because other channels had to make money.
6 1354 The birth of jazz education in
7 Saskatchewan I can directly relate to my seeing this
8 program on CBC. Now we have jazz in every high school,
9 we have jazz at both universities, we have jazz all
10 over the province. Again, I could relate that to CBC.
11 1355 My concern about what is going on is
12 great. I believe that the culture of a nation is the
13 window to its essence, to its soul. The culture, which
14 is real art, is neither readily accessible nor popular
15 with the majority of people, yet it is real art that
16 defines a society and a civilization. It is through
17 that art that we know ancient Egypt, that we know
18 Sixteenth Century England and other countries, and I
19 would like to suggest that Sixteenth Century England
20 knew itself better because of Shakespeare's plays and
21 other art.
22 1356 It is through art and the arts that
23 we stay in touch with our national identity and
24 national consciousness. We know ourselves better
25 through hearing and seeing the arts. Today only the
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1 CBC is dedicated to providing that national forum. It
2 is not profitable. It cannot be done by a station that
3 is looking to make money. It has to be supported and
4 its very important.
5 1357 I believe, therefore, it is a
6 responsibility of the Government of Canada and the CRTC
7 to suggest this, that there be continued and elevated
8 support to maintain CBC so that CBC can continue to
9 present to our nation the real art, which again is
10 neither profitable nor popular, on a mass scale in
11 which any few, if any, commercial stations would air
12 but which is necessary and important for our national
13 well being.
14 1358 I would also like to suggest that CBC
15 TV be instructed or guided, or however you can do it,
16 to, first of all, do away with all advertising so that
17 it will have a unique identity like CBC radio, and
18 present -- and the radio as well -- all Canadian
19 programming. Nothing from the U.S., nothing from
20 England, nothing from anywhere else. All Canadian
21 programming. It should not be in competition with CBS
22 and NBC. It should provide a unique set of
23 programming, Canadian programming only, and that it not
24 compete commercially.
25 1359 I would also like to suggest that
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1 privatizing CBC would destroy CBC. We don't need
2 another country or rock radio station and we don't need
3 another commercial TV station.
4 1360 Thank you very much.
5 1361 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
6 Dr. Lewis.
7 1362 I'm happy you clarified. I thought
8 that we would have medical assistance in here if
9 anybody had a heart attack, but we don't, so at least I
10 know that.
11 1363 Thank you.
12 1364 Mr. Secretary.
13 1365 MR. LAHAY: Thank you, Madam Chair.
14 2105
15 1366 Darcy McKenzie, please.
16 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
17 1367 MR. McKENZIE: Thank you,
18 Madam Chairperson, Members of the CRTC, for allowing us
19 this opportunity to make a presentation today.
20 1368 Thank you to the good Dr. Lewis for
21 saving me some time and some of the comments that we
22 wanted to make. An excellent intro for us.
23 1369 Our presentation may differ slightly
24 from the others where we will be asking some critical
25 questions and providing some suggestions or answers to
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1 those questions which we hope will have a profound
2 influence on these consultations and the resulting
3 actions undertaken by the CRTC.
4 1370 Saskatchewan Arts Alliance is an
5 inclusive, member-driven coalition of arts
6 organizations that provides a collective voice for the
7 arts community of Saskatchewan.
8 1371 Established in 1984, the Arts
9 Alliance seeks to strengthen, support and advance the
10 arts through advocacy and policy development. The SAA
11 represents the position of the arts community to
12 government, funding agencies and the public as needed.
13 The needs of individual artists are central to the
14 considerations of the Sask Arts Alliance.
15 "In your view, how well does the
16 CBC fulfil its role as the
17 national public broadcaster? In
18 the new millennium, should the
19 CBC fulfil its role in a
20 different manner than it has in
21 the past?"
22 1372 I think the answer to the question is
23 both. Our suggestion is that the CBC should improve on
24 its past success, and I don't mean cheaper, I mean more
25 resources with a definitive plan developed with real
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1 and meaningful input from the communities in which it
2 serves.
3 "How well does the CBC serve the
4 public on a regional as well as
5 at a national level?"
6 1373 On a regional level, the CBC in the
7 past has had a significant impact on the development of
8 Saskatchewan's artists, especially in the literary and
9 performing arts and the cultural industries. The CBC
10 provided opportunities for freelancers, writers, visual
11 artists and performers to work, and it nurtured our
12 artists by providing workshops so that they can gain
13 work. The CBC produced original Saskatchewan
14 productions that tell our stories and cover our
15 artists.
16 1374 Beyond our artists, the CBC responded
17 to local needs through its regional programs. For
18 example, on one of the CBC Radio morning programs
19 visual artists raised money for the food bank by
20 donating their artworks that were auctioned on the
21 show. This would not have occurred if there were no
22 windows for regional programming. The visual artists
23 auctioned for the food bank. I understand that the
24 program is now being taken up by CBC in other provinces
25 such as New Brunswick and possibly British Columbia.
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1 1375 In the past few years there has been
2 a withdrawal of regional resources in the CBC, such as
3 staff positions, producers, story editors, just to
4 mention a few. As a former CBC journalist, I can
5 attest to that. The result is programming originating
6 from Saskatchewan has been reduced and opportunities
7 have diminished for our artists to work and develop
8 their art form.
9 1376 In CBC television, the withdrawal of
10 resources has correlated with a pull-back to national
11 programming and a reduction in regional airtime for
12 local productions. When CBC television was actively
13 involved in partnering with local production companies,
14 high-quality programs were produced. It was mentioned
15 in a previous presentation. What's On Earth, Utopia
16 Cafe, just to mention a few, those were the programs
17 that were developed locally and presented locally with
18 a local view.
19 1377 With the pull-back to national
20 programming, regional CBC has withdrawn as a partner in
21 our productions because CBC Saskatchewan, although it
22 continues to provide facilities, has lost the resources
23 needed to support our regional producers. The
24 withdrawal of regional resources in radio and
25 television, the pull-back to the national TV
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1 programming and reduced airtime for regional TV
2 programming has resulted in fewer of our stories being
3 seen or heard.
4 1378 The move to national programming has
5 left a void that is not being filled by other
6 broadcasters nor, in our opinion, will they ever be
7 filled.
8 "Should the programming provided
9 by CBC radio and television be
10 different from that provided by
11 other broadcasters? If so, what
12 should these differences be?"
13 1379 Well, yes, on both counts.
14 1380 CBC should be taking creative chances
15 at both the regional and national level. CBC
16 programming should be discovering and nurturing new
17 talent, writers, artists and performers. CBC has the
18 ability to take chances because it does not answer to
19 shareholders as private broadcasters do.
20 "Is there a special role that
21 the CBC should play in the
22 presentation of Canadian
23 programming? If so, what should
24 that role be?"
25 1381 The CBC should be commended for its
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1 move to Canadianize its prime time weekday television
2 schedule. The CBC should be encouraged to continue in
3 this direction. The CBC should reinvest strongly in
4 regional programming. The CBC television should
5 empower its regional directors to licence regional
6 productions. The CBC should also schedule airtime for
7 regional television programming on a consistent basis.
8 1382 In closing, we recommend that the
9 CRTC ask the CBC to address issues related to regional
10 programming and encourage the CBC, with all its
11 resources, to reinvest in regional programming
12 throughout Canada.
13 1383 Thank you.
14 1384 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
15 Mr. McKenzie.
16 1385 Mr. Secretary.
17 2113
18 1386 MR. LAHAY: Alex Zypchyn, please.
19 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
20 1387 MS ZYPCHYN: Thank you.
21 1388 My name is Alex Zypchyn and I'm here
22 on behalf -- not on behalf -- I'm here for my daughter
23 to speak for her, okay? She was unable to make it.
24 She is up in Saskatoon working.
25 1389 She has written this up completely on
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1 here own, okay?
2 1390 She starts off by:
3 "My name is Karyn Zypchyn. I am
4 30 years old and a former CBC
5 radio reporter who spent over
6 four years working at the public
7 broadcaster. My background
8 includes a Master's degree in
9 Journalism from the University
10 of Western Ontario, and a
11 Master's degree in History. I
12 am also bilingual and have done
13 reports in French for
14 Radio-Canada. When I learned
15 the CRTC wanted to hear from
16 people on how they think the CBC
17 is serving Canadians, I knew
18 this would be the appropriate
19 forum to tell my story. I come
20 forward tonight to tell you that
21 there is one group of Canadians
22 the CBC is not always serving.
23 That group is the people who
24 work for the CBC. I come to you
25 of my own accord, without
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1 influence from the current
2 labour dispute at the CBC. In
3 fact, I quit the CBC almost a
4 year ago because of the story I
5 am about to tell you. It's a
6 story of disappointment in the
7 lack of leadership and vision at
8 the CBC, and disappointment in
9 the negative politics that
10 survive in that organization.
11 In my opinion, the lack of
12 leadership in combination with
13 negative politics creates a
14 situation that risks
15 compromising the journalistic
16 service provided to Canadians
17 through news and current
18 affairs. Ultimately, the use of
19 taxpayers dollars to support
20 such a system is called into
21 question. First let me paint a
22 picture of my hopes and
23 aspirations in joining the CBC.
24 When I graduated from journalism
25 school in 1994, I eagerly went
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1 to CBC Sudbury to start my
2 career in journalism as a casual
3 fill-in reporter. I came to the
4 CBC with the utmost respect for
5 the work of the CBC, and
6 religiously learned the policy
7 and mandate of the Corporation
8 so that I could do my best to
9 serve Canadians in a
10 professional manner. I believed
11 in the mandate of the CBC and
12 felt privileged to be one of the
13 reporters filing stories to
14 regional, provincial and
15 national networks. In short, I
16 was proud to be a CBC reporter
17 and felt my work deeply
18 connected me to my identity
19 being a Canadian. I had all the
20 enthusiasm, optimism and
21 aspiration expected of a new
22 graduate to create a career for
23 myself in the CBC. I knew I had
24 the talent and the skills to go
25 far, and set myself upon my
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1 journey. Upon starting my work,
2 I immediately found a good
3 national story equivalent to the
4 seriousness of the breast
5 implant controversy. Ten months
6 later, and at a time when the
7 CBC was cutting back staff, I
8 got promoted to ... a staff
9 reporter in Yellowknife. I
10 spent almost three years there,
11 covering many stories on such
12 topics as aboriginal issues,
13 environmental concerns and
14 northern politics. I filed
15 regularly to the national
16 network and was heard many times
17 across Canada. People seemed to
18 appreciate my work at the
19 national level and they
20 supported my efforts, my
21 considerable overtime pay
22 attesting to their financial
23 support. However, getting
24 support locally to file my
25 national stories was another
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1 story. That's when I began to
2 question what was going on at
3 the CBC. I was baffled: I had
4 been hired to file both regional
5 and national stories from the
6 North. Yet, I was told locally
7 that `national' could get their
8 own reporter to do stories on
9 the North. My priority, I was
10 told, was filing at least 2
11 stories a day for the regional
12 newscast. Even when I arranged
13 for back fill pay for me to do a
14 national documentary project, I
15 faced grumblings locally about
16 my efforts. In this way, I
17 witnessed first-hand tension
18 between the national network and
19 its regions. Had I not filed my
20 national stories on my own time
21 and on overtime, after putting
22 in a 9 to 10 hour day to gather
23 regional news, many stories on
24 the North would not have reached
25 Canadians in southern Canada. I
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1 spent many a night working late
2 because of a lack of cooperation
3 between the region and national
4 headquarters. Had support for
5 my national stories been given
6 more regularly at a local level,
7 I could have provided the same
8 service for less taxpayer's
9 money, and more [efficiency] for
10 my time and the Corporation's
11 time [as well]. After spending
12 almost 3 years in the North, I
13 decided it was time to advance
14 my career by moving south.
15 Because of slow movement within
16 the CBC, not many jobs were
17 becoming available. I therefore
18 quit my staff status to advance
19 my career by coming to CBC
20 Saskatchewan in Regina and
21 taking on a short-term contract
22 for 4 months. That move did
23 anything but advance my career.
24 In fact, it brought it to an
25 end, as I will explain. I
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1 started at CBC Saskatchewan on
2 January 1998. I immediately
3 noticed two things in the
4 workplace that raised concerns
5 on my part. First, a poster on
6 a post in the newsroom depicting
7 several scantily clad women in
8 bathing suits encircling a man
9 standing in the middle of
10 them ... The man's face had been
11 superimposed with an image of
12 the face of one of the male
13 on-air personalities. I found
14 the poster to be sexist and
15 distasteful. I thought to
16 myself that I would be
17 embarrassed if a member of the
18 public came through the newsroom
19 and saw that poster.
20 Furthermore, I suspected many
21 taxpayers and CBC listeners
22 would not approve of their money
23 being spent on a workplace that
24 allows such a poster to be
25 pinned up. Second, I
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1 immediately noticed a situation
2 on the news and current affairs
3 floor that raised concerns about
4 conflict of interest. A husband
5 and wife team were working on
6 the same floor. I had to report
7 to her husband, and so did she,
8 hence my concern about conflict
9 of interest. An issue came up
10 one day, with the wife attacking
11 me and my professionalism, which
12 I found to be completely
13 unfounded and unnecessary.
14 Following our encounter, her
15 husband told me my story I was
16 producing under his wife would
17 not go to air. That despite the
18 fact that I had spent two days
19 on overtime to cover my current
20 affairs story, and despite the
21 fact that my story was good. I
22 wondered about how
23 unprofessional the CBC would
24 appear to the hundred people who
25 were at the conference I covered
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1 for my story, when the story was
2 absent from the airwaves. I
3 later approached the wife to
4 clarify something, and she said
5 my story was good, so they would
6 run it after all. The husband
7 didn't know she had made that
8 decision so when I told him I
9 was preparing my story to go to
10 air, he told me again it wasn't
11 going to air. The confusion was
12 finally settled, and my nerves
13 put to ease when the final
14 decision came that my story
15 would go to air. In this way,
16 and in my opinion, negative
17 politics almost prevented a good
18 story about the public from
19 going to air. I questioned how
20 refusing to air my story would
21 have served the Canadian public.
22 Things only got progressively
23 worse at CBC Saskatchewan, and
24 it became evident to me that
25 people were working against me.
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1 They attacked my ability to do
2 stories, something I had never
3 encountered in my career up to
4 that point. As a result I quit.
5 Shortly after that, I was asked
6 to do some work for the French
7 people at Radio-Canada
8 Saskatchewan, across the way
9 from the English newsroom I had
10 just left. They had no concerns
11 about my journalistic ability to
12 do stories. In this way, I quit
13 the public broadcaster,
14 disappointed in the end that my
15 career had come to after all the
16 time and education I had put
17 into getting myself to the CBC.
18 By this point, I had lost much
19 of my respect for the
20 Corporation, and the enthusiasm,
21 optimism and aspirations I had
22 for continuing a career in one
23 of Canada's major cultural
24 organizations fell by the
25 wayside. As a taxpayer, I am
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1 concerned that my money is going
2 to a system that works in ways I
3 have described, ways which I
4 believe can jeopardize efforts
5 to inform the public about
6 events and situations in their
7 communities and around the
8 world. That system lacks
9 leadership. Without this needed
10 leadership, politics survive and
11 thrive, and they drive many of
12 the decisions being made at CBC.
13 Accountability and good and just
14 management is needed to lead the
15 CBC into the 21st century.
16 Before I end, let this be clear:
17 I still am committed to the
18 mandate of the CBC, and I
19 believe passionately in public
20 broadcasting. Many journalists
21 at the CBC are professional and
22 they work hard to serve the
23 Canadian public, journalists
24 like David McLauchlin and Joan
25 Leischman. I can only wonder
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1 what they have had to endure
2 throughout their careers to
3 produce stories, stories
4 Canadians rely on to be
5 informed."
6 1391 At this point, I would also like to
7 make a comment that my daughter had made to me and I do
8 not know if she would like me to say this or not, but
9 she had sent these out to several people, several
10 people that are high in the CBC organization and have
11 been with them for a long time.
12 1392 The one remark, not naming any names
13 was said:
14 "You have guts little lady, but
15 don't ever expect to work for
16 CBC again." (As read)
17 1393 I feel sorry if that's the attitude
18 of the people at CBC. They are supposed to be
19 well-educated individuals. I am not. This to me shows
20 a dishonour to people who go out, get an education and
21 get slapped in the face.
22 1394 Thank you.
23 1395 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
24 Ms Zypchyn.
25 1396 Mr. Secretary.
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1 1397 MR. LAHAY: Madam Chair, thank you.
2 2120
3 1398 Cathy Currey.
4 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION
5 1399 MS CURREY: Good evening,
6 Madam Chairperson, visitors, former -- pardon me, not
7 former -- round table participants here, and ladies and
8 gentlemen.
9 1400 Being number 25 on the program here,
10 I expect I'm the last speaker, although I understand
11 that you were taking a few other people when I spoke to
12 the national people. That may or may not be the case.
13 1401 Presuming I'm the end, I'm very happy
14 to bring up the end in many different ways. Hearing
15 your story just now, it's a very painful reminder about
16 the difficulties, the concerns that we as ordinary
17 Canadians have with CBC that we love.
18 1402 I have grown up with CBC and I'm sure
19 a number of people who are in this room today have
20 grown up with the CBC or have been introduced to CBC
21 from afar. In some of my vindictive moments, I am glad
22 that we have the power of CBC to trap people from the
23 American south, to be able to look forward, and here is
24 living proof of when to capture them. I think that's
25 one of our successes that probably CBC doesn't chalk up
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1 in their scorecard, but you know it would be a very
2 interesting record to keep.
3 1403 We have a lot of people that do
4 listen to Canadian programming that are not Canadian,
5 and that's from around the world. I speak from having
6 lived around the world, in other locations as well.
7 But, we, particularly in Regina, if you are not
8 familiar with Regina, have a broad hearing range all
9 the way to portions of British Columbia, far north,
10 down into the mid states and eastern Canada.
11 1404 I'm speaking for a group of people
12 who cannot hear CBC radio, and those are people sitting
13 here in Regina. It is a crime. So while I want to
14 speak about what CBC means to all of us, at the end of
15 tonight's program what I will do is I will present to
16 you a petition that is just done very, very quickly
17 without a lot of planning. It is a statement by Regina
18 people about how important it is for Regina people, the
19 entire city of Regina, to have access to CBC
20 programming.
21 1405 You have heard about the vitality and
22 the nature and the skill, the craft with which we show
23 our art, and yet it is not reaching a significant
24 portion of our second largest city and the capital of
25 our province. We should all be able to tap into that
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1 resource. Right now, just with the nature of the
2 telecommunications media, a number of people in the
3 City of Regina are not eligible to receive that. So
4 the upshot of this is that, although this is not the
5 hearing to present it, CBC will be applying for an FM
6 licence to retransmit its AM programming on the FM dial
7 solely for the Regina area so that people in the centre
8 of the city that cannot currently receive CBC AM
9 programming are able to get it on an FM channel.
10 1406 So this is a double whammy
11 application for you. It's a buttress of support for
12 that application that I would hope that you would carry
13 forward to the other applications when they come
14 forward. I believe that is happening in May with the
15 FM licence approvals that come up or are repeated very
16 often. So if you will just apply this to the long-term
17 nature.
18 1407 I would like to just speak for a
19 number of people. Certainly, we have -- well, my
20 counterpart to my left, who was an associate of private
21 business, certainly industry, education programming. I
22 speak in terms of the general public. The competition
23 comes from a number of retired people. It also comes
24 from self-employed people.
25 1408 I am in that category and I have a
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1 home-based business. Particularly, when we are doing
2 home-based businesses, we are working day, we are
3 working night. We work out in public, with the public,
4 but our touchstone with what is going on in the broader
5 community, it is very often through CBC radio. It is
6 important. It's a vital source for communication and
7 information for us, and it keeps our minds active when
8 we are doing mundane day-to-day activities.
9 1409 Regardless of our ages, CBC radio
10 engages us, keeps ours minds active and participating
11 as active members in our community. I like to think
12 that those are the kinds of things that lead to strong
13 community leadership at times in the future for us.
14 1410 While I introduce to you tonight this
15 petition, what I'm really wanting to say to you, too,
16 is it is so important for us to maintain the essence
17 and the vitality of CBC radio. Commercial radio has
18 its place, but it is such a shame that it is allowed to
19 saturate our minds with tripe and pap. There is
20 nothing to it. I get very, very nervous if we do not
21 challenge our young minds, to make them inquiring
22 minds, questioning minds, and strong minds for
23 leadership in the future.
24 1411 If all we allow is commercial radio,
25 commercial television in our communities, then we have
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1 a very, very difficult future ahead of us. We need to
2 be broader, to have bigger visions, and to allow
3 ourselves to dream and have philosophies to guide our
4 lives by. That's what CBC radio can allow us to do and
5 to join us as communities of communities to do that.
6 1412 So what I will do, I will make one
7 public appeal to anyone else who is here tonight who
8 has not had a chance to sign the petition, if you would
9 like to add your name to that, please. It will be
10 filed with the CRTC, as you see that tonight.
11 1413 Just in closing, then, I would like
12 to say thank you for having the courage to come out to
13 rural Canada and see us. It is so easy for us to
14 presume that sitting out east, either in Ottawa or
15 Toronto or Montreal, you are dealing with the suits and
16 the politics and you forget about rural Canada. You
17 can see we are a vital force and we are a strong force.
18 I think you need to see that.
19 1414 It's a pleasure to have you here and
20 welcome you, and please represent us well when you have
21 to make strong statements. We are a vital community.
22 Locally, our broadcasters here like to talk about
23 Toronto as the centre of the universe and of course we
24 know that's in satire. We are not so sure they do. We
25 will let you in on a little secret: it's a trick.
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1 1415 So please speak for us on our behalf,
2 represent us strongly and you are a vital, vital
3 connection to what makes Canada a true place for us all
4 to live.
5 1416 Thank you.
6 1417 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
7 Ms Currey.
8 1418 For your information, I'm from rural
9 Canada. I live here and my colleagues, I hope, will
10 find me to be a vital and strong force, and some of
11 them may be afraid of that.
12 1419 In any event, that is the end of the
13 presenters.
14 1420 As I have stated before, CBC has a
15 right of rebuttal. I understand that you are prepared
16 now. Is that correct?
17 1421 I'm sorry, I don't know your name, so
18 if you could say your name.
19 2131
20 1422 Thank you.
21 REPLY / RÉPLIQUE
22 1423 M. BONNEVILLE: Madame la Présidente
23 Cram, Madame la Commissaire Wylie, je m'appelle Lionel
24 Bonneville et je suis le directeur de la télévision
25 française de Radio-Canada dans l'ouest.
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1 1424 I am also representing English
2 television in Saskatchewan. My colleague Jane Chalmers
3 unfortunately had to attend to an urgent family matter
4 and she regrets very much that she couldn't be here
5 this evening. However, our other colleagues were here
6 today: Bill White, who is the Director of English
7 Radio for Saskatchewan; and René Fontaine who is my
8 colleague in French radio for the prairies.
9 1425 As my colleagues said earlier today,
10 our purpose here today was really to listen. We heard
11 much that was positive and that was very heartening;
12 and we heard some thoughtful, constructive criticism,
13 and we will have to give that some careful thought on
14 our part; and there were many solutions and
15 recommendations advanced.
16 1426 It would be impossible and I would
17 say even irresponsible of me to start responding to
18 those issues tonight. There were some very important
19 issues that were raised. I just want to assure every
20 presenter today that the issues will not be ignored.
21 We will deal with them in two ways. They will be dealt
22 with at the licence renewals later this spring before
23 the CRTC, and as well we will be responding
24 individually to every person that made a presentation.
25 1427 In the meantime, I would like to
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1 express our gratitude on behalf of my colleagues to say
2 how grateful we are that people took all that time and
3 effort to respond to the CRTC's call to come and speak
4 out about the CBC. I think it is important for us to
5 hear those voices. Some people put a lot of time and
6 effort in that and indeed drove many kilometres on
7 winter roads to do it, so we are very happy about that.
8 1428 Quelque mots en français pour
9 remercier tout spécialement les gens qui ont fait des
10 interventions traitant spécifiquement des médias
11 français en Saskatchewan. Je pense que c'est aussi
12 important pour nous de la télévision et la radio
13 française d'entendre ces voix-là que ce l'est du côté
14 anglais et peut-être plus parce que nous avons une
15 responsabilité spéciale en milieu minoritaire de rendre
16 un bon service à la communauté. Alors, je remercie
17 aussi tous ces gens-là qui ont fait cet effort-là.
18 1429 Thank you very much. It has been a
19 long day. I think we will leave it at that for
20 tonight.
21 1430 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
22 1431 I want to thank each and every one of
23 you. Thank you.
24 --- Whereupon the hearing concluded at 2131/
25 L'audience se termine à 2131
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