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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS FOR THE CANADIAN RADIO-TELEVISION AND TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DU CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES SUBJECT / SUJET: PUBLIC HEARING ON THIRD LANGUAGE AND ETHNIC PROGRAMMING / AUDIENCE PUBLIQUE SUR LA PROGRAMMATION MULTILINGUE ET À CARACTÈRE ETHNIQUE HELD AT: TENUE À: Holiday Inn Holiday Inn 370 King Street 370, rue King Toronto, Ontario Toronto (Ontario) February 2, 1999 Le 2 février 1999 Volume 2 tel: 613-521-0703 StenoTran fax: 613-521-7668 Transcripts In order to meet the requirements of the Official Languages Act, transcripts of proceedings before the Commission will be bilingual as to their covers, the listing of the CRTC members and staff attending the public hearings, and the Table of Contents. However, the aforementioned publication is the recorded verbatim transcript and, as such, is taped and transcribed in either of the official languages, depending on the language spoken by the participant at the public hearing. Transcription Afin de rencontrer les exigences de la Loi sur les langues officielles, les procès-verbaux pour le Conseil seront bilingues en ce qui a trait à la page couverture, la liste des membres et du personnel du CRTC participant à l'audience publique ainsi que la table des matières. Toutefois, la publication susmentionnée est un compte rendu textuel des délibérations et, en tant que tel, est enregistrée et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre des deux langues officielles, compte tenu de la langue utilisée par le participant à l'audience publique. tel: 613-521-0703 StenoTran fax: 613-521-7668 Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des télécommunications canadiennes Transcript / Transcription Public Hearing / Audience publique Third Language and Ethnic Programming / Programmation multilingue et à caractère ethnique BEFORE/DEVANT: M. Wilson Chairperson / Présidente S. Langford Commissioner / Conseiller ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI PRÉSENTS: D. Rhéaume Secretary / Secrétaire D. Rhéaume Legal Counsel/Conseillers juridiques M. York Analyst/Analyste Volume 2 tel: 613-521-0703 StenoTran fax: 613-521-7668 ii TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES PAGE Presentation by / Présentation par: Mr. Sundar Raj 98 Karas Associates 108 Chinese Canadian National Council 113 Canadian Ethnocultural Council 129 Ethnic Council of Arts 138 South Asian Journalists' Club 151 Canadian Hispanic Congress 159 PolyMedia 168 Hellenic-Canadian Federation of Ontario 187 Polish-Canadian Women's Federation 192 CJMR Radio 203 Italian Canadians, Toronto District 214 Cultural News Agency 223 TLN Television 230 Laura Productions 241 CHIN-FM 243 CHIN RADIO/TV International 249 Mr. Sher Singh 255 Canadian Ethnic Journalists' and Writers' Club 263 CHIN RADIO/TV International 268 Macedonian Heritage TV program on CFMT-TV 274 Catholic Children's Aid Society 279 Ms Nellie Pedro 280 Mr. Bob Cousins 291 tel: 613-521-0703 StenoTran fax: 613-521-7668 iii TABLE OF CONTENTS / TABLE DES MATIÈRES PAGE Fairchild Media 305 Mr. Hanny Hassan 313 Ms Claudia Lopez 323 KVC Communications Group 326 Ms Zelda Young 332 CIRV Radio 334 Mr. Farook Hossain Kahn 344 Ms Estela Cuenca 349 Ms Krystyna Piotrowski and Ms Isabella Walicht 357 Rev. Adolfo Puricelli 370 tel: 613-521-0703 StenoTran fax: 613-521-7668 95 1 Toronto, Ontario / Toronto (Ontario) 2 --- Upon resuming on Tuesday, February 2, 1999, 3 at 1600 / L'audience reprend le mardi 4 2 février 1999, à 1600 5 392 THE CHAIRPERSON: Ladies and 6 gentlemen, I would like to ask you to take your seats 7 and we will get under way. 8 393 Welcome to day two of the CRTC's 9 public consultations on our ethnic broadcasting policy. 10 My name is Martha Wilson. I am the Ontario Regional 11 Commissioner and with me today is Stuart Langford, 12 Commissioner. 13 394 I would like to introduce the people 14 at the head table and review some of the housekeeping 15 items that I went over yesterday with our participants. 16 For those of you who were here yesterday you will 17 forgive me if it is repetitive, but I think it is 18 useful since we have so many people here today to 19 review those comments. 20 395 On my far left is Diane Rhéaume. She 21 will be acting as the Secretary of this process today. 22 On my far left at the front of the table is Donald 23 Rhéaume. He is our legal advisor and on my right is 24 Morag York, who is an analyst with the CRTC. 25 396 Our intention today is to have the StenoTran 96 1 session run until all of the participants who have 2 registered to be heard today are heard. The notice I 3 believe said that we would go from 4 p.m. to 10 p.m. 4 It is possible that we will go later than that, 5 depending on how many people appear today. We have had 6 some people from yesterday reschedule, so we have quite 7 a full agenda. 8 397 To ensure that all of the parties 9 here have an opportunity to make a presentation, we 10 would ask you that you limit your comments to 10 11 minutes and we are going to be quite strict about 12 enforcing this. Again, just to ensure that we hear 13 from everyone. Don't forget that if you have points 14 that you feel you have not raised with us during this 15 public consultation that you would like to forward to 16 us, you can do so in writing by March 4, 1999. 17 398 We may wish to ask you questions 18 following your presentation, but because of the large 19 number of participants it is quite possible that we may 20 not ask you questions. The most important thing for us 21 is to hear what you have to say. If we don't ask you 22 questions, I would ask you not to interpret that as a 23 lack of interest on our part. We are very interested 24 in hearing what you have to say and it is a very 25 important part of helping us make a decision that will StenoTran 97 1 be useful and applicable to everyone. 2 399 As I have said earlier, the 3 proceedings will be transcribed and the transcript will 4 form part of the record upon which the entire 5 Commission -- actually, not the entire Commission, but 6 the panel will make its decision. So that the people 7 responsible for this task can provide an accurate 8 record, I would ask that when you speak you press the 9 small white button on the microphone in front of you 10 and this activates the microphone and it is indicated 11 by the red light. 12 400 For those of you who prefer to submit 13 your comments in writing, comment cards are available 14 at the back of the room and from the Secretary, Diane 15 Rhéaume. If you have any comments you would like to 16 pass on, just write them on a card, sign it and give it 17 to the Secretary before the end of the session. 18 401 Finally, I would just like to review 19 quickly what our timetable will be for today. We 20 learned a few lessons from yesterday, our first day. 21 We are going to sit today from 4:00 to 6 p.m. At that 22 point we will take a half hour break for dinner and so 23 that you can have a bit of a break as well. We will 24 reconvene at 6:30. We will sit until 8:30. We will 25 take a 15-minute break, reconvene at 8:45 and go StenoTran 98 1 probably until the end at that point. 2 402 So, having said all of that, I would 3 ask our Secretary to call the first party. 4 403 MS RHÉAUME: Our first speaker is Mr. 5 Sundar Raj. 6 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 7 404 MR. RAJ: Good afternoon, ladies and 8 gentlemen. 9 405 Commissioners, ladies and gentlemen, 10 my name is Sundar Raj. I am a marketing and business 11 consultant and I appear before you this evening for a 12 number of reasons. 13 406 As a Canadian I am interested in and 14 concerned about the long-term impacts of media on all 15 segments of our society. 16 407 Prior to coming to Canada in 1971, I 17 was fortunate enough to have had a choice as to where I 18 wanted to live and where I could live. I chose to live 19 in Canada as I was indeed, and I am even now, 20 fascinated with the concept of the cultural mosaic 21 philosophy as against the melting pot concept. 22 408 I am actively associated with the 23 Flemingdon Neighbourhood Services as a member of its 24 board and through this organization with the 25 Thorncliffe Park Neighbourhood Services. Both these StenoTran 99 1 community service organization serve two high density 2 and ethnically diverse areas of Toronto. Both are now 3 the favoured starting points for those who come from 4 around the world for a varied number of reasons to 5 settle in Canada. Nor many of them speak or understand 6 either of our official languages. 7 409 I am an active Rotarian and Past 8 President of the Don Mills Rotary Club. Don Mills in 9 Toronto is another community that has undergone major 10 changes in its ethnic composition over the past 25 11 years. 12 410 I have had the pleasure of seeing 13 this beautiful land coast to coast many times and have 14 interacted socially and on business with a wide range 15 of Canadians from different ethnocultural and 16 linguistic backgrounds. I have thus come to understand 17 and to appreciate in my own way what makes this country 18 unique in the world. 19 411 I am a consultant to Asian Television 20 Network International of Newmarket, Ontario, which is 21 licensed by the Commission to provide the first and 22 only 24 hour a day, seven days a week, channel to serve 23 the needs of the South Asian community across Canada. 24 I have had the privilege of appearing before this 25 Commission in 1996 as a member of the ATN team. StenoTran 100 1 412 Having established my credentials, I 2 wish to bring to your attention my observations on the 3 following: 4 413 One, the adequacy of the present 5 broadcasting system from an ethnocultural perspective; 6 414 Two, the urgent need for a new policy 7 framework to better serve the needs of the fast growing 8 ethnocultural communities. 9 415 Let me pause briefly to highlight one 10 of the biggest challenges faced by non-English or 11 non-French speaking immigrants to our country. It is 12 the challenge of cultural isolation. This is more so 13 in the case of senior citizens and women with young 14 non-school going children. They spend a major part of 15 their working days alone or with toddlers within the 16 confines of their homes. Their world outside the home 17 is also restricted to a few and far in between 18 community events. They are also heavily dependent on 19 the meagre social services provided by our resource 20 constrained service agencies. 21 416 In the above-referred group, the 22 problem is more acute among immigrants from the 23 non-traditional sources such as Asia and Africa. While 24 Asian immigrants have settled in Canada in substantial 25 numbers since the late sixties, it is only in the last StenoTran 101 1 eight to ten years that people from countries such as 2 Sri Lanka, for example, have arrived in Canada to form 3 their own communities. Same is the case with people 4 from countries such as Ethiopia or Somalia or Ghana. 5 All these people live in the Flemingdon area. I know 6 this as a director of the Flemingdon Centre. 7 417 These communities do not have the 8 benefits of social and organizational structures that 9 are provided by long established and well-managed 10 churches or religious institutions. 11 418 Modern travel makes it possible for 12 people to move from one region of the world to the 13 other in a matter of hours. Though this physical 14 transportation is achieved in a matter of hours, the 15 cultural and social adjustments take many years. 16 People from far away lands have thus been transplanted 17 to Canada within hours and here they re with little or 18 no understanding of our languages or culture or social 19 and societal values. For these people it is a delight 20 to hear a familiar sound or see a picture that they can 21 recognize. It is like seeing an oasis in a vast 22 desert. 23 419 It is with this background that I ask 24 the moot question: How well is our current system of 25 television networks and radio stations serving our StenoTran 102 1 diverse needs? 2 420 I wish to further illustrate this 3 point with a personal example. In the mid-seventies, 4 my mother spent a few years with us here in Canada. 5 Even though she enjoyed watching some of the programs 6 on the English-language channels, the only ones that 7 were available in those days, she always looked forward 8 to the Saturday morning 30-minute program that my good 9 friend and much respected pioneer of South Asian 10 television programming, Shan Chandrasekar, used to 11 broadcast. Our Saturdays would not be complete without 12 this 30 minutes of South Asian programming. How I wish 13 that those days we had the Asian Television channel on 14 a daily basis. 15 421 However, I should hasten to point out 16 an ironic situation that exists now. Even though the 17 South Asian channel was licensed by the Commission two 18 years ago, many of us who want this service and are 19 prepared to pay the premium price for the channel are 20 unable to do so because of the cable companies' 21 inability to provide this channel. Many of us who live 22 in high-rise buildings cannot have the satellite dish 23 and are dependent totally on the cable service 24 providers' decision on the menu of options offered to 25 subscribers. StenoTran 103 1 422 I live in what can be called a luxury 2 high rise in Toronto which is completely boxed in. 3 There is no balcony and the building authorities are 4 extremely friendly and favourable, but they cannot give 5 me the channels that I want because the cable company 6 decides what I watch. 7 423 Furthermore, what is intriguing is 8 that within the Greater Toronto Area, demographics 9 clearly illustrate that South Asians form the second 10 largest minority group after the Chinese community. 11 Yet, two years have gone by since the Commission 12 granted a licence for the South Asian channel and we 13 are yet to see its benefits. 14 424 This is an example of good policies 15 not yielding their full benefits to the targeted 16 groups. Cable carriers and other distributors must be 17 an integral part of the implementation process in the 18 CRTC's decision process. Without such fully integrated 19 implementation programs, good policies of the 20 Commission come to yield little or no real benefit to 21 the consumers. 22 425 At this stage I wish to move on to 23 another factor that needs to be recognized in the 24 framework of a third language programming policy. 25 There is an interesting social trend emerging in StenoTran 104 1 Canada. We generally assume that language and 2 ethnicity are correlated and, therefore, as an example, 3 we assume that people of Portuguese origin are the only 4 ones interested in Portuguese programs. While this 5 pattern fits the conventional wisdom, it is important 6 to notice that it is somewhat limiting. 7 426 Today, because of the many 8 cross-cultural influences that the younger generations 9 are exposed to in urban areas, such as Toronto and 10 Vancouver, the younger generations have cultural and 11 artistic interests outside and beyond their own ethnic 12 origins. People of non-South Asian background have 13 often commented to me that they enjoy watching a South 14 Asian program on the TV or attending a South Asian 15 cultural program in their community. 16 427 When I have a few moments to spare, I 17 surf the channels to watch a Ukrainian dance or a 18 Scottish jig or an Italian opera. My son, who is 23 19 years old, has a job that needs good language skills in 20 both English and French. He often times tunes into a 21 French channel to upgrade his colloquial French. I 22 have often heard people of this age group talking of 23 their plans to acquire new languages such as Spanish, 24 Japanese or Chinese -- languages that one does not 25 normally associate with their ethnic backgrounds. StenoTran 105 1 428 A dynamic third language programming 2 policy will have a crucial impact in the future much 3 beyond the targeted ethnocultural groups. Its impact 4 will be on our society as a whole because of the large 5 scale social integration that is taking place as never 6 before in our history. As barriers are coming down 7 fast, it is important to provide outlets for the art, 8 culture and talent that exist in different ethnic 9 segments to reach out to one another and enjoy the rich 10 diverse heritage as a part and parcel of the overall 11 Canadian mosaic. 12 429 A dynamic third language policy will 13 have a long term impact on Canada's global image and 14 aspirations. We are a trading nation intent on 15 promoting and pursuing trade opportunities around the 16 world. Our foreign policy is committed to promote 17 peace and understanding. We tackle ecological and 18 environmental challenges around the world. We help 19 countries affected by natural disasters. Our ability 20 to pursue these noble objectives in a global context 21 will be further enhanced when we have a cadre of young 22 men and women sensitive to and well attuned to the 23 cultural needs of other countries around the world. 24 430 I can further highlight many of the 25 benefits of a dynamic third language policy. However, StenoTran 106 1 in the interest of time and brevity, let me at this 2 stage pose a question. Should third-language channels 3 be made available on a premium pay for service basis or 4 as a part of the basic cable package? There are 5 obviously a number of other issues that need to be 6 considered in this context and solutions are neither 7 simple nor easy to find. 8 431 Finally, let us evolve a dynamic 9 third language programming policy that meets the needs 10 of our fast changing society. Let this new policy take 11 us all to the 21st century and thew millennium. 12 However, let us proceed with caution and protect the 13 third-language channels that are now in operation. 14 These channels must be allowed to grow and to attain 15 their full potential. Let us nourish the many talents 16 that exist within our shores before we open the gates 17 for unlimited access to mere importers of foreign 18 programs in third languages. Let those who took the 19 initiatives in Canada benefit from their enterprises 20 and let Canadian talent in third language programming 21 and program delivery thrive. 22 432 That concludes my presentation. 23 Merci beaucoup. 24 433 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner 25 Langford has a question for you. StenoTran 107 1 434 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank you 2 very much for that. I must say that had you been here 3 last night you would have heard a number of people make 4 some of the same comments you made with regard to 5 dealing with landlords and trying to get them to 6 lighten up and let them put satellite dishes on their 7 balconies and be a little more open to perhaps a 8 different cable provider. 9 435 Do you know whether these concerns 10 are being brought to the provincial government? I 11 don't want to sound like I am passing the buck here, 12 but landlord and tenant law is a provincial 13 responsibility. Do you know whether the people who are 14 speaking out, and I should have asked this last night I 15 suppose and if you don't know that's fine, but do you 16 know whether there is some pressure being brought at 17 the provincial level as well? 18 436 MR. RAJ: Commissioner, not to my 19 knowledge because one of the problems that we need to 20 recognize in the context of your question is not many 21 people have the time or the other resources to follow 22 through. When I phone downstairs to my management 23 office and they say, no, you cannot have a dish, it's 24 against the by-laws of the building, that ends my 25 enthusiasm for acquiring this new technology. StenoTran 108 1 437 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Well, keep 2 the pressure on us, but look to Queen's Park a little 3 as well. I think maybe with a pincer movement maybe we 4 can move this along a little. 5 438 Thanks very much. 6 439 MR. RAJ: Thank you. 7 440 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 8 much, Mr. Raj. 9 441 MS RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is Mr. 10 Sergio Karas of Karas Associates. 11 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 12 442 MR. KARAS: Thank you, Madam Chair. 13 443 My name is Sergio Karas. I am a 14 barrister and solicitor, a lawyer here in Toronto. I 15 practice in the area of immigration law. I am here as 16 a private citizen, but also because I have a personal 17 interest in the matter. I am immigrant myself. My 18 first language was not English. My first language is 19 Spanish and I was born in Buenos Aires, Argentina. 20 444 I have been in Canada for over 18 21 years and I was fortunate enough to attend university, 22 York University and Osgoode Hall law school here in 23 Toronto, so I received all my post-secondary education 24 in Canada. 25 445 I am also very active in the question StenoTran 109 1 of ethnic media because I write in ethnic newspapers on 2 a regular basis, both here and in the United States. I 3 am also a frequent guest in different programs of 4 different ethnic groups to inform people on immigration 5 issues. So my comments will be of a practical nature 6 more than anything else and based on my personal 7 experience on the matter. 8 446 I am also a director of the Jewish 9 Immigrant Aid Service, so I am very active in the 10 community in assisting immigrants. My office basically 11 handles cases of all ethnic groups. 12 447 I think that you are faced with a 13 basic dichotomy here, a basic dilemma, whether or not 14 there should be more Canadian local content or it 15 should be more internationalized. Whilst I am a very 16 big sympathizer of the idea that people should be able 17 to watch whatever they please and I don't care really 18 what it comes from, I am a believer in freedom of 19 choice as far as programming is concerned. So, if 20 anybody wants to get a satellite and watch, I don't 21 know, a cricket match, they are welcome to do so. 22 Whereas if anybody wants to watch the local news they 23 are welcome to do so too. 24 448 However, I think that the role of the 25 local stations or stations that are carried on cable StenoTran 110 1 that cater to specific ethnic groups should 2 nevertheless address those ethnic groups. For example, 3 my personal experience indicates to me that people do 4 rely to a great extent to get Canadian information from 5 those programs that they see from time to time. They 6 expect those programs to have accurate, reliable 7 information that they can depend on. 8 449 I am a frequent guest on certain talk 9 shows for different cable stations and I am privileged 10 to handle calls, for example, from people. On occasion 11 we receive calls from Edmonton, from Calgary, from 12 Montreal, Toronto and people feel somewhat 13 disconnected, particularly those who are living in 14 smaller communities where their own ethnic group is not 15 so prevalent. 16 450 I think it is very easy to talk about 17 ethnic programming for large groups -- large ethnic 18 groups in, for example, major cities such as Toronto, 19 Montreal or Vancouver where they are a very high 20 percentage of the population. For example, if we talk 21 about Spanish-speaking people, since I am one I will 22 talk about that. If we talk about Spanish-speaking 23 people in Toronto, there is a very sizeable group, 24 approximately 250,000. However, there are, I am told, 25 around half a million Spanish-speaking people StenoTran 111 1 throughout Canada, but if you live in a place such as 2 Calgary, for example, or such as a smaller city, there 3 are not as many. 4 451 So you come to expect to have that 5 program in the local television station or in the cable 6 television station to handle local questions or things 7 that are of your interest. A lot of people rely on 8 ethnic programming for their information. For some 9 people this is their only source of information. 10 452 In my own particular field, 11 immigration law, every time we have a program on any 12 ethnic channel we are bombarded with phone calls 13 because people feel disconnected and this is a way that 14 they can prevent their own alienation from the rest of 15 the Canadian mainstream. 16 453 Unfortunately, some groups are a 17 little more disadvantaged than others. For some 18 people, for example, my friend who just spoke before 19 referred to South Asians, well, a lot of South Asians 20 have English as their language of instruction. 21 Whereas, for example, Spanish-speaking people they 22 don't. So they rely more on the ethnic programming 23 that they are expecting to hear. 24 454 There are specific needs also that 25 have to be addressed and cannot be addressed elsewhere. StenoTran 112 1 People rely on those programs as they are a source of 2 information that they really cannot find elsewhere. 3 455 It is also important that there 4 should be Canada-wide coverage, that cable stations 5 carry those programs without additional charges, and 6 that a real concerned effort be made to procure 7 corporate sponsorship of programs which in some groups 8 is sorely lacking. 9 456 I tell you, every time I turn on the 10 TV I don't see any major corporations sponsoring ethnic 11 programming, except for certain groups because, 12 obviously, there is a critical mass in their own 13 market. But I think there has to be some way, through 14 tax credits perhaps or through some sort of incentive 15 to promote corporations to provide that critical 16 advertising for those stations. There should also be a 17 duty from the part of those stations to carry local 18 news, for example, because people do come to expect 19 that. 20 457 So, those are my comments and I thank 21 you very, very much. They are intended to be of a 22 practical nature based on my own experience. I will be 23 happy to answer any questions you may have. 24 458 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much 25 for your contribution, Mr. Karas. StenoTran 113 1 459 MR. KARAS: Thank you. 2 460 MS RHÉAUME: Our next presentation is 3 by Mr. Jonas Ma of the Chinese Canadian National 4 Council. 5 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 6 461 MR. MA: Thank you, Madam Chair. 7 Bonjour. 8 462 My name is Jonas Ma. I am the 9 Executive Director of the Chinese Canadian National 10 Council. The Chinese Canadian National Council is a 11 national umbrella organization with 30 chapters across 12 the nation. Our mandate is to promote the equal rights 13 and full participation of Chinese Canadians at all 14 levels of society. 15 463 Our input on ethnic programming is 16 principled on the promotion of equality -- the value 17 enshrined in the Canadian Charter of Rights and 18 Freedoms -- through encouraging accessibility to 19 services, diversity in programs and anti-discrimination 20 programming. While our input may be applicable to the 21 situation of ethnic programming in general, it is 22 principally focused on ethnic programming for the 23 Chinese Canadian population. 24 464 Let's start by looking at some of the 25 demographics that are changing. According to the 1996 StenoTran 114 1 census, visible minorities now make up over 11 per cent 2 of Canada's population. Chinese Canadians which number 3 over 920,000 in Canada are the largest visible minority 4 in Canada, making up about 26 per cent of this 5 population. The majority of Chinese Canadians can be 6 found in Ontario and B.C. We represent 8.5 per cent of 7 the population of Toronto and 16 per cent of the 8 population of Vancouver. 9 465 In Canada, the mother tongue of over 10 16 per cent of our population is a non-official 11 language, with Chinese holding the largest percentage 12 in that group, about 11 per cent or over 715,000. 13 466 Within the Chinese Canadian 14 population itself there are also demographic changes. 15 In recent years there is a large influx of immigrants 16 who are from the People's Republic of China, who speak 17 Mandarin, compared to the last couple of decades when 18 Chinese immigrants were mostly from Hong Kong and 19 Taiwan. 20 467 In light of the changing demographics 21 of Canadian society, let me now introduce Ms Paula Jong 22 who is a member of our National Executive to point out 23 some of the concerns that we have in ethnic and third 24 language broadcasting policy. 25 468 MS JONG: First, I am going to StenoTran 115 1 address accessibility to services. Even though ethnic 2 programming is becoming increasingly important, the 3 provision of current services is dependent on the 4 private market. Those who do not subscribe to cable 5 television often do not have access to services. 6 Viewers have to pay additional subscription fees in 7 order to gain full access to the available third 8 language specialty television stations. Third language 9 radio stations, which rely on advertising revenue, only 10 operate in big cities like Toronto and Vancouver, where 11 it is financially viable to do so. Geographically 12 isolated communities usually have no or limited access 13 to these services, except for those who can afford to 14 purchase the necessary technology to increase their 15 access. 16 469 Without public subsidies, access to 17 ethnic programming will continue to be limited to those 18 who have sufficient resources. moreover, with the 19 government moving towards privatization, ethnic 20 programming which is not profitable, but serves an 21 important social purpose, will be eliminated. For 22 example, community channels which can carry ethnic 23 programming have been sold off to specialty channels, 24 like the Golf Channel. 25 470 Now I am going to move on to StenoTran 116 1 diversity in programs. Currently, ethnic programming 2 for Chinese Canadian communities is provided mainly 3 through ethnic broadcasting and third language 4 specialty stations, in the form of Type A programs. 5 Their programs mainly focus on providing viewers with a 6 link or connection to their countries of origin; they 7 provide social, cultural and political information 8 about those countries. 9 471 To this end, they are serving the 10 Chinese Canadian communities whose countries of origin 11 are Hong Kong and Taiwan very well. However, there are 12 very few, if any, programs that are produced for 13 Chinese Canadians from other countries of origin, for 14 example, those who are from the People's Republic of 15 China. moreover, the majority of the non-news 16 television programs and the music on radio are overseas 17 productions which are imported by the stations. 18 472 Besides providing viewers with a link 19 to their countries of origin, ethnic third language 20 broadcasting stations also serve to familiarize viewers 21 with Canadian social and political issues, and to 22 facilitate participation and integration into Canadian 23 society. While there are set requirement on Canadian 24 content for those stations, there are not any 25 requirements or guidelines on the specific types of StenoTran 117 1 Canadian content programs. Moreover, more programs are 2 needed in areas which concern the social, political and 3 cross-cultural aspects of Canadian society, programs 4 which are educational and informational, especially 5 those which provide practical information to assist the 6 orientation and integration of immigrants in Canadian 7 society. 8 473 Types C and D programs are rare among 9 the ethnic programs which target Chinese Canadian 10 communities. Such programs are important as they 11 foster cultural heritage and provide a sense of 12 community and identity, especially among those who are 13 second, third or fourth generation Chinese Canadians, 14 those who have not fully retained the use of the 15 Chinese language. 16 474 Type E programs are very minimal in 17 both mainstream and ethnic broadcasting stations, 18 although they are important in promoting 19 multiculturalism and cross-cultural and inter-cultural 20 understanding among the Canadian population as a whole. 21 475 Finally, I am going to address 22 anti-discriminatory programming. The content of ethnic 23 programs is at times discriminatory. It is racist, 24 sexist and homophobic and discriminates against those 25 with disabilities. Commentators are often ill-equipped StenoTran 118 1 to provide bias-free and neutral information and there 2 is not a balance of different viewpoints. 3 476 Currently, the CRTC does not have an 4 effective monitoring and complaint system in place for 5 ethnic broadcast. 6 477 Based on the above submission we have 7 several recommendations. First, an increased 8 commitment in governmental support and funding to 9 ethnic programming, more specifically, in the 10 improvement of accessibility to services, and in the 11 development of informational, educational and 12 cross-cultural programming, as the private sector 13 cannot be depended on to meet the needs of ethnic 14 communities. 15 478 Second, clear guidelines on the 16 specific types of Canadian content programs broadcast 17 by ethnic stations, to ensure diversity and that the 18 needs of various Chinese Canadian communities are being 19 met. 20 479 Third, guidelines on minimum 21 requirements of Type C, D and E programs for both 22 ethnic and mainstream stations. 23 480 Fourth, expanding the provision of 24 and access to Type C, D and E programs -- for example, 25 through time slots on mainstream stations, individual StenoTran 119 1 production of programs to be broadcast on local 2 information channels such as TVO, establishment of 3 community channels similar to Rogers Cable 10 in 4 Toronto. The latter can also be used to offer Type A 5 programs in smaller cities. 6 481 Fifth, a full consultation with 7 different communities across Canada on the vision of a 8 national ethnic television network -- on the preferable 9 and feasible options and strategies to establish such a 10 network. 11 482 Sixth, compulsory training in 12 cross-cultural sensitivity and anti-discrimination for 13 both ethnic and mainstream broadcasters, especially 14 their front line staff, for example, commentators and 15 journalists. 16 483 Seventh, the establishment of ethnic 17 specific advisory groups to monitor and advise the CRTC 18 on ethnic programming. 19 484 Eighth, commitment, guidelines and 20 policies on the non-discriminatory and 21 non-stereotypical representation of Chinese and other 22 visible minorities in the media that is reflective of 23 the make-up of the Canadian society. Such commitment, 24 guidelines and policies should address both on the 25 screen and behind the scene representation. Ethnic StenoTran 120 1 programming is not the solution to the lack of 2 diversity in the mainstream media. 3 485 Thank you very much. 4 486 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much 5 for your comments, Mr. Ma and Ms Jong. 6 487 I wonder if I could just ask you a 7 couple of questions of clarification and I believe 8 Commissioner Langford has a question or two for you as 9 well. 10 488 On the second page of your 11 presentation under "Accessibility to Services" you that 12 community channels which can carry ethnic programming 13 have been sold off to specialty channels, such as the 14 golf channel. I am just wondering what you mean by 15 that. That's not a phenomenon that I am familiar with. 16 489 MR. MA: What we know of is that in 17 some communities that used to have community channels, 18 like Channel 10 in most cases, the number of those 19 channels has been decreasing and we know that sometimes 20 they were sold in order to -- the broadcaster has sold 21 them in order to provide another specialty channel or 22 pay channel, like the golf channel. 23 490 THE CHAIRPERSON: So you mean the 24 channel was dropped -- the community channel was 25 dropped? StenoTran 121 1 491 MR. MA: Uh-huh. 2 492 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Because 3 typically the specialty channels are not carried on 4 basic. Golf, for example, I think is available only on 5 a discretionary basis and the community channels I 6 believe are basic channels. But I would be interested 7 in finding out from you where you think that has 8 happened. 9 493 MR. MA: We would be pleased to 10 provide you more information later on. 11 494 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 12 495 In your recommendations -- your first 13 recommendation says that you recommend: 14 "an increased commitment in 15 governmental support and funding 16 to ethnic programming, more 17 specifically, in the improvement 18 of accessibility to services, 19 and in the development of 20 informational, educational and 21 cross-cultural programming, as 22 the private sector cannot be 23 depended on to meet the needs of 24 ethnic communities." 25 496 Who do you suggest should undertake StenoTran 122 1 that? 2 497 MR. MA: Well, this is something I 3 think we need to explore. I think the phenomena of 4 having a community channel sold off to specialty 5 channels is one of the things that can be prevented if 6 there is more funding. 7 498 Also, I think that if -- sometimes 8 also if the community channel does not have enough 9 programs because they don't offer a lot or there is not 10 enough programs that are supplied to this station. So, 11 it is a reflection of the fact that there is not 12 support for Canadian-made production. 13 499 THE CHAIRPERSON: So, would you see 14 the community channels filling that role, more than a 15 traditional or conventional broadcaster or the public 16 broadcaster, for example? 17 500 MR. MA: I think it is one of the 18 ways that these needs can be met and I think the 19 traditional broadcaster can have also their share of 20 responsibility as well. 21 501 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 22 502 That actually takes me to my next and 23 final question, recommendation No. 5, which is: 24 "a full consultation with 25 different communities across StenoTran 123 1 Canada on the vision of a 2 national ethnic television 3 network -- on the preferable and 4 feasible options and strategies 5 to establish such a network;" 6 503 We had a presenter yesterday who 7 suggested that the time has passed for a conventional 8 national ethnic network and that this is an area that 9 needs to be served by specialty channels, whether they 10 are single community specialty channels or a group of 11 communities, such as the group of communities that have 12 come together from South Asia or the Asian Television 13 Network. I am wondering about your response to that 14 suggestion that the time has passed for a national 15 ethnic network? 16 504 MR. MA: I think the idea of an 17 national ethnic network is very important in the sense 18 that specialty channels run on the market force. If 19 there is a profit to be made from that market the 20 service will be provided. So when we look at the 21 demographics in our community, a large percentage are 22 concentrated in cities such as Toronto and Vancouver 23 which are adequately served I think. There are still 24 areas in terms of programming that can be improved, but 25 I think that what is really lacking is people, for StenoTran 124 1 example, who live in Halifax or Saskatoon where there 2 is only about 5,000 people of Chinese origin. How can 3 they have access to a specialty channel to serve them, 4 unless they buy a satellite dish and pay a certain fee. 5 Even then you have to have an agreement with the local 6 broadcaster. 7 505 So, we are talking about if there is 8 an ethnic broadcast network, these smaller communities 9 may have better access to this third language or ethnic 10 programming than just a structure which should rely on 11 the market force. 12 506 THE CHAIRPERSON: And would you see 13 that network being carried on basic? 14 507 MR. MA: I don't know enough to 15 respond to that. Oh, you mean as a basic channel? 16 508 THE CHAIRPERSON: On basic cable 17 television or basic DTH or basic MDS, so that it is 18 available to the largest number of subscribers. There 19 are some actually who would argue that tier 1 has 20 really not become much of a discretionary or is not a 21 discretionary tier any more, since 90 per cent of the 22 subscribers generally subscriber to tier 1. So it is 23 just sort of like an extended basic. 24 509 MS JONG: I guess that would depend 25 on how accessible it would be for other communities. StenoTran 125 1 The basic principle is to provide like increased access 2 to people and if it is not included in basic and people 3 can have access by paying a very minimal fee, I think 4 it would be viable. 5 510 But if it becomes another sort of 6 specialty channel where people have to pay a 7 subscription fee, then we are sort of in one way like 8 defeating the purpose because we are hoping to sort of 9 have these kind of services available to as many people 10 as possible, regardless of resources. 11 511 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Ma, you 12 appeared at the Canadian Television Policy Review last 13 fall. I wonder if you have been following the 14 development of digital television and if you think that 15 the development of digital television and the increased 16 number of channels will assist your cause in some way 17 in terms of making channel capacity available for more 18 third language programming services/ 19 512 MR. MA: No. I haven't followed very 20 closely on that, but I heard it is coming and we hope 21 that this will increase accessibility to service. 22 513 Once again, I guess I echo what Ms 23 Jong was saying. I guess they do have to look at how 24 it is going to be provided, if it's a small fee or if 25 it is something that would not prevent most people to StenoTran 126 1 access that, then I think that would be a welcome 2 change. 3 514 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 4 515 I will turn you over to Commissioner 5 Langford. 6 516 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I don't want 7 to drag this out, but there was part of your comments 8 about racist and sexism and homophobia and a need for a 9 more perhaps complete complaint system, monitoring 10 system which you call on the CRTC to put in place. I 11 don't know if it will surprise you or anyone in this 12 room, but there are some people who think that we get 13 too much involved at the CRTC and that we 14 over-regulate. There are as many people I think who 15 would ask us to keep our hands out as would ask us to 16 put our hands in and we do have some fairly strong 17 policies in the CRTC in place about these very issues. 18 517 I just wonder whether it might be 19 something that those in your communities could take on 20 yourselves. Perhaps we could play a role in steering 21 complaints your way, but sometimes I think it kind 22 of -- I don't want you to think I have got a closed 23 mind on this, but sometimes a joint venture here 24 between us, a strategic alliance perhaps. You people 25 could do the code and you people could do the StenoTran 127 1 monitoring and we could in a way assist in some way. 2 Do you really want to hand the whole thing over to the 3 CRTC? 4 518 MR. MA: No. I think we are talking 5 about just more of a guideline and also more of an 6 emphasis in this. I think in the past I guess 10 or 15 7 years we have been putting a lot of emphasis on 8 monitoring the mainstream and how they have been 9 reporting on minorities and women and other minorities. 10 519 Even with that I think we still are 11 having, for example, this last couple of days we are 12 getting a lot of calls from the media about the 13 situation of four women who were being smuggled into 14 the States. We are saying why are we asked these 15 questions? We don't really know so much about this and 16 just because they are Chinese that's the only thing. 17 If they happened to be another group, but why do we 18 have a monopoly on this story. 19 520 I think the whole racialization of 20 certain -- I wouldn't want to say crime, but certain 21 activities is still very prevalent in the media. I 22 know the black community has been making a lot of 23 complaints about that and I think the Asian community 24 has its fair share of being racialized and associated 25 with certain crimes. StenoTran 128 1 521 So even with the mainstream we still 2 have a lot of problems even with all this monitoring 3 and complaint process being in place. I guess we have 4 another hearing coming up on the self-regulatory 5 process and how effective it has been. I think we 6 agree with you that it is the best process to start 7 initiating some kind of a joint process to work on 8 this. I think there has not been a lot of emphasis on 9 this issue of the ethnic and third language 10 programming. Sometimes it just totally unconscious. 11 So, in concept maybe it is a question of not being 12 totally aware of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and 13 maybe it is a question of not having thought through 14 the process, gone through this process. 15 522 So we are not saying that the ethnic 16 language program is particularly sexist or homophobic, 17 but I think it exists in society and everyone is 18 affected. If we have a process for the mainstream, why 19 don't we have a process for the ethnic and third 20 language broadcasting as well. 21 523 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Ma 22 and Ms Jong. 23 524 Madam Secretary. 24 525 MS RHÉAUME: The next presentation is 25 by Mr. Emmanuel Dick, President of Canadian StenoTran 129 1 Ethnocultural Council. 2 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 3 526 MR. DICK: Thank you, Madam Chair. 4 527 Commissioners, ladies and gentlemen. 5 The CEC is a national umbrella organization, consisting 6 of 31 national groups across the country. Last 7 weekend, 25 presidents of these organizations met and 8 today I would like to present you with a summary of 9 some of these concerns. Should you have questions that 10 follow after my short presentation, it is my hope that 11 some of our member organizations sitting around the 12 table will assist in clarifying any issues which you 13 may question. 14 528 Since its inception in 1980, the CEC 15 has represented a cross-section of ethnocultural groups 16 across Canada. We are a non-profit organization. We 17 are a non-partisan coalition and we are mandated to 18 preserve a united Canada and to remove barriers that 19 prevent some Canadians from participating fully and 20 equally in society. 21 529 The Canadian Ethnocultural Council 22 has made a number of presentations to the CRTC, to 23 federal standing committees and to legislative 24 committees regarding ethnocultural groups in Canada. 25 We appreciate the opportunity to speak to you again on StenoTran 130 1 the importance of multicultural and multilingual 2 diversity or, as the CRTC calls this consultation, 3 third language and ethnocultural programming in Canada. 4 530 The CEC wishes to make clear that 5 Canada's demographic reality must be acknowledge and 6 that mechanisms are put into place which embrace the 7 Multicultural Act, section 27 of the Charter of Rights 8 and Freedoms. Multiculturalism is stated as a 9 fundamental characteristic of Canada and must be 10 included in broadcasting. 11 531 The Ethnocultural Council is very 12 interested in having the CRTC modify or reinforce these 13 following areas within the context of third language 14 and ethnocultural programming: 15 532 One, ensuring accessibility for 16 ethnocultural communities across Canada, reflection of 17 multicultural diversity in Canadian programming, 18 inclusion of Canadian content and addressing gaps int 19 he domestic and international ethnic broadcasting 20 markets. 21 533 Linguistic and ethnic diversity in 22 broadcasting is an important tool for realizing 23 Canada's commitment to a dynamic and multicultural 24 population. The principles entrenched in the 25 Multiculturalism Act must be respected by all StenoTran 131 1 broadcasters. Canada has so fiercely adhered to its 2 official language policy, but it has not been as 3 enthusiastic in its support for multiculturalism, 4 including multilingual and multicultural productions. 5 534 Third language and ethnocultural 6 productions do not have access to the type of funding 7 sources allotted to French or English-language 8 programming. Often third language and ethnic 9 broadcasting lack adequate support or adequate 10 broadcast technology. 11 535 Reinforcing strong ethnic and third 12 language programming in Canada could open new 13 opportunities to expand the Canadian presence abroad 14 and could be the beginning of a media industry with a 15 great deal of potential. This is a source which has 16 the capacity to evolve in a source of price for all 17 Canadians and which, with nurturing from the CRTC, 18 would increase in importance. 19 536 Since the CRTC ethnic broadcasting 20 policy was enacted in 1985, StatsCanada has reported a 21 steady increase in the number of immigrants who have a 22 language other than English or French as their primary 23 language. As home to 42 per cent of Canada's visible 24 minority population, Toronto is estimated to attract 25 over 70,000 immigrants a year. StenoTran 132 1 537 Given our changing global and 2 domestic communities, the value of ethnocultural and 3 third-language broadcasting is even more important than 4 it was when the ethnic broadcasting policy was put in 5 place. Ethnocultural and third-language programming 6 created with Canadian values in mind are essential 7 tools for Canadians who want to be involved in the 8 global community. This programming allows some people 9 to consume Canadian news, information and values, while 10 speaking the language of their homeland. 11 538 Other people, this programming 12 provides an opportunity for the development of their 13 education and understanding of a myriad of cultural and 14 linguistic backgrounds. 15 539 The Canadian system of privatization 16 seems to leave many ethnocultural communities very 17 weak. Canada's only policy on funding requires 18 applicants applying for an ethnic programming licence 19 to provide evidence of continued financial commitment. 20 The market for ethnic programming in Canada has become 21 more competitive over the years. In this competitive 22 market, smaller ethnic communities continue to receive 23 fewer and fewer programming services. 24 540 Domestically, the production of 25 ethnocultural programming depends on work done by StenoTran 133 1 independent producers. Economic support from the 2 ethnocultural communities is generated through 3 sponsorship. Any reduction of funding threatens or 4 makes local production impossible. 5 541 Despite the important need for ethnic 6 broadcasting, conventional television has proven to be 7 an inadequate response to the public demand for 8 multicultural programming. 9 542 Barriers that currently limit the 10 distribution of programming between communities must be 11 removed in order for programming to meet markets all 12 across Canada. Community access television needs to be 13 strengthened and reinforced at the local levels. The 14 CRTC must require all cable companies to provide 15 community programming. 16 543 The CRTC has been negligent in 17 ensuring that public broadcasting fully reflect the 18 multicultural, multilingual and diversity of Canada's 19 demographic reality. This is especially so with 20 respect to the CBC English and French-language 21 programming. Mainstream broadcasters do not produce 22 enough Canadian content which promotes intercultural 23 understanding. 24 544 The CRTC should ensure that grants 25 are available to help offset the costs connected with StenoTran 134 1 ethnic programming. The emphasis should be placed on 2 building strong and effective ethnocultural programming 3 on a domestic level to ensure that Canadian values are 4 reflected in content. 5 545 As technology advances, the CRTC must 6 recognize that rates of computer access and computer 7 literacy are not equitable all across the communities. 8 Visible minorities and linguistic minorities are among 9 many groups that will be faced with marginalization as 10 Canadians with access to new technology work to improve 11 their skills. Canada must place its priority on the 12 domestic production of ethnocultural services, rather 13 than relying on the import of foreign services. The 14 development of distinctly Canadian ethnocultural 15 services is crucial in order for Canada to maintain its 16 sovereignty and in order to transmit uniquely Canadian 17 values to linguistic and ethnocultural groups. 18 546 Imported television broadcast, 19 particularly as this relates to international news, 20 information and trades also have a role. These should 21 not be considered to primarily function, but should be 22 balanced with quality Canadian content. 23 547 When our proposal is submitted there 24 will be a fully developed rationale that will follow 25 the recommendations I am about to read and there are a StenoTran 135 1 number of recommendations: 2 548 The CRTC must include; one, the 3 renewal of the commitment it made in 1985 to basic 4 principles entrenched in the broadcasting policy 5 reflecting Canada's cultural and linguistic diversity. 6 It must ensure that mechanisms are put in place which 7 accords these principles appropriate resources and 8 mechanisms for implementation. 9 549 The CRTC must also include the 10 principles entrenched in the Multiculturalism Act 11 should be respected by all broadcasters. 12 550 The CRTC develop certification of 13 Canadian content by the use of scorecard rating 14 systems, whereby the reflection of Canada's 15 multicultural diversity is included as part of the 16 scores for certification. 17 551 A structure governing how necessary 18 resources will be allocated to community-based 19 organizations for research and analysis of the needs of 20 ethnocultural communities and various elements of 21 broadcasting, including the impact on new media. 22 552 A system of funding and grants made 23 available to help finance the production of domestic 24 ethnocultural and third-language programming for 25 domestic and international markets that would allow for StenoTran 136 1 the production of higher budget and higher-quality 2 productions. 3 553 The encouragement of networks that 4 facilitate co-productions between Canadian programmers 5 and their international counterparts. 6 554 An improved broadcast distribution 7 system that would allow the movement of ethnocultural 8 programs between urban centres, but within 9 ethnocultural communities for broadcast and community 10 access channels. 11 555 The definition of community should 12 have both a domestic and an international focus in 13 order to build networks between broadcasters within 14 Canada and abroad. 15 556 It is crucial that Canada's 16 demographic reality be reflected in television, radio 17 and new media programming, both domestically and in 18 programs we export. Ethnic programming is even more 19 important than it was when the broadcasting policy was 20 last reviews. 21 557 This, Madam Chair, is just but a part 22 of a larger submission that will be coming to you very 23 shortly. 24 558 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 25 much, Mr. Dick. StenoTran 137 1 559 I believe Commissioner Langford has a 2 question for you. 3 560 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I listened 4 with interest to your recommendations and I thank you 5 for the amount of work you have obviously put into this 6 paper of yours, your presentation. 7 561 One thing confused me a little and it 8 may be that I just didn't hear it correctly and I 9 wonder if you could clarify it for me. You call at one 10 point for -- I think you did, I don't want to put words 11 in your mouth, but my notes seem to say you called for 12 a return to kind of stronger community channels and at 13 the same time you are calling for more production, more 14 Canadian production of programming. You will know, of 15 course, or you may know that there has been a movement 16 away from community channels towards putting money into 17 Canadian production funds. Are you calling for kind of 18 a move back to the community or a balance of both or 19 have I just misunderstood you? 20 562 MR. DICK: I am consulting my 21 colleagues who were at the meeting on the weekend. I 22 think they want to move towards a more balanced. 23 563 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So room for 24 both we think? 25 564 MR. DICK: Yes. StenoTran 138 1 565 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank you 2 very much. 3 566 Maybe when you are putting your final 4 submission in by March 4 you could take another look at 5 that for me. I just want to make sure I am clear on 6 it. 7 567 MR. DICK: Okay. Thanks very much. 8 568 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank you 9 very much. 10 569 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 11 much, Mr. Dick. 12 570 MS RHÉAUME: The next presentation is 13 by Mr. Hasanat Ahmad Syed, Executive Director of the 14 Ethnic Council of Arts. 15 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 16 571 MR. SYED: Good afternoon, Madam 17 Chair and members of the CRTC. 18 572 I thank the members of the CRTC for 19 giving me an opportunity to make a presentation on a 20 very important subject. The CRTC is to be complimented 21 for having undertaken this review of its current policy 22 respecting third language and ethnic programming. 23 573 As indicated by the CRTC, it was in 24 1985 when it evolved a broadcasting policy reflecting 25 Canada's cultural and linguistic diversity. StenoTran 139 1 574 Truly, much has changed. The face of 2 Canada is changing fast, especially of Toronto which in 3 a couple of years would have a preponderance of a 4 population whose mother tongue would neither be English 5 nor French. it does call for urgent and immediate 6 measures. 7 575 To the first question: To what 8 extent -- to the first question of the CRTC -- To what 9 extent does the present broadcasting system adequately 10 serve Canada's ethnocultural communities system? The 11 answer is simple; it does not. The question of the 12 extent does not arise. There is a total disdain and 13 contempt displayed by the network towards third 14 language and ethnic programming. 15 576 We do not go across the country. We 16 would only take the example of Toronto, where more than 17 10 per cent of Canada's entire population lives and of 18 which more than half comprises of the various ethnic 19 communities. 20 577 Taking again only the TV networks, 21 CBC, CTV, Global, City-TV, TV Ontario and a host of 22 other small networks, their programming schedule reveal 23 a dismal picture and the worst culprits among them are 24 those networks which are paid out of the taxpayers 25 money and a chunk of that money come from the pockets StenoTran 140 1 of the ethnic communities. The management of the CBC 2 and TV Ontario have some explaining to do. Why on a 3 consistent basis they are ignoring the legitimate needs 4 and aspirations of an audience from whom they are 5 getting million of dollars? 6 578 The CRTC has a role to play in this 7 area. It is time when they come before the CRTC for 8 the renewal of their licences that the CRTC can 9 question them: What is their performance in this area? 10 579 I have appeared before this body in 11 the past when the licence for the renewal of the CBC 12 came up and when Mr. Keith (sic) was the Chair. He did 13 take notice, but in the absence of an ongoing 14 monitoring system, all assurances lapsed in oblivion. 15 580 Such reviews are only good if there 16 is a follow-up action. These hearings in themselves 17 are good only if there is a concrete and firm 18 enunciation of a policy that responds to the changing 19 needs of the time. 20 581 In addition to third-language 21 broadcasts, ethnic programming demands a serious 22 attention. We welcome an over-zealous coverage of 23 Christmas and the last two weeks of the months of 24 December ethnic Canadians listen to nothing but 25 Christmas shopping, Christmas festivities, Christmas StenoTran 141 1 carols and the whole of Canada is engulfed in it. The 2 Canadians came only to know about the beginning of 3 Ramadhan when USA and Britain started air strikes on 4 Baghdad. 5 582 Canadians know very little what 6 Ramadhan is. About half a million Canadians are 7 Muslims and then very little is known what Eid ul Fitr 8 is, which to Muslims is more important than Christmas, 9 and yet no network carried any program about the 10 significance of Ramadhan or the feast that follows it. 11 583 Canadian Muslims feel that they live 12 in a foreign land, even though we are proud of being 13 Canadian, but the Canadians are not proud of us. The 14 same thing can be said about the festivals of Jews, 15 hindus, Budhs, Sikhs and others. 16 584 Coming to the second question of the 17 CRTC: Given the demographic changes that have taken 18 place in Canada how can the needs and interests of 19 ethnocultural communities continue to be served? 20 585 The question sounds interesting, 21 continue to be served. It presupposes that needs of 22 the ethnocultural are served. There is no such things 23 as their needs are served. 24 586 While the CRTC acknowledges the 25 demographic changes, it is unfortunate that they StenoTran 142 1 believe their needs are being served. That is not the 2 situation. 3 587 Again, we take the example of Toronto 4 which has a preponderance of a population which is 5 neither English nor French, then why 95 per cent of the 6 content of the broadcasts are English? And why the 7 networks like CBC and TV Ontario which are getting 8 millions of dollars from the pockets of the ethnic 9 communities do not devote even 10 per cent of their 10 broadcast in third languages or ethnic programming? 11 588 Here the CRTC has a role to play. It 12 is you who renew their licences without asking them 13 whether they are discharging their obligations towards 14 their audiences. The CRTC has to develop a strong 15 monitoring system. These hearings do not carry much 16 force if the policy evolved by the CRTC decorate their 17 own archives. 18 589 The best yardstick, at least for 19 Toronto, is the examination and assessment of the 20 relative strength of Canadians of Chinese, South Asian 21 origin and based on their figures the time slot at 22 least on the public broadcasting system which heavily 23 draws upon the revenues from the ethnic communities be 24 crafted. We are not asking for time allocation of 50 25 per cent, which is justified by the strength of the StenoTran 143 1 population that lives in Toronto, but a reasonable 2 beginning. A recognition of the fact that these ethnic 3 communities do exist and their needs are to be served 4 in a fashion that is both democratic and sensible. 5 This applies to both public and private broadcasting 6 networks and that is only possible if the CRTC asks for 7 iron clad guarantees from these networks when they come 8 up before the CRTC for the renewal of their licences. 9 590 Another step that the CRTC can take 10 is to issue at least two or three more licences for 11 independent networks which exclusively cater to the 12 ethnic needs. 13 591 Coming to the third question: Should 14 there be a priority on the development of ethnocultural 15 services than importing foreign services/ 16 592 It is an ideal situation. If we can 17 attach priority to their development, but then the 18 question is of the funds. We have the Canada Council 19 which is as narrow minded as broadcasting networks are. 20 They don't feel obliged to fund ethnic initiatives. 21 There is another organization which is living in the 22 past and refuses to recognize the changing face of 23 Canada. if the CRTC can compel the broadcasters to 24 fund such development projects it would be an ideal 25 situation. StenoTran 144 1 593 The importing of foreign services 2 cannot be dispensed with. Such services, however 3 foreign they may be, they do serve a purpose. Till the 4 time indigenous services are developed, and ethnic 5 talent is fully flowered, we have to import such 6 programming. 7 594 As we have indicated, the development 8 of services here in Canada by ethnic talent is a most 9 welcome move, but can the CRTC provide funds? No. It 10 has no funds, nor can it compel the Canada Council or 11 private or broadcasters to make funds available for 12 such ventures. it simply cannot put a ban on foreign 13 services. 14 595 Before I close my presentation, I 15 must lay a great deal of emphasis on developing a 16 mechanism which keeps a constant watch on the needs of 17 third language and ethnic programming, otherwise these 18 hearings carry no meanings and nothing would come out 19 of these hearings. 20 596 It would be a good idea if the CRTC 21 set up an advisory panel of ethnic journalists and 22 artists who can be the ears and eyes of the CRTC. I 23 have spent more than 20 years in broadcasting in my 24 home country and I am prepared to serve on such a 25 panel. StenoTran 145 1 597 One of two recommendations that I 2 have and I want to present before the CRTC is that 3 there has to be a constant monitoring system. You see, 4 we are meeting after 15 years to develop a system over 5 which we have not any control. If we have a regular 6 monitoring system, then it can meet the ethnic needs. 7 598 The second is that the CRTC has to be 8 a little more generous in granting licences for 9 channels which can only and exclusively serve the 10 visible minorities. Only one channel, that is Asian 11 Television Network, I don't know how they got this 12 licence. It is a miracle, because the CRTC is -- I am 13 sorry to say -- is a very close-minded organization. 14 There are specialty channels, there is a golf channel, 15 a life channel, but there is no channel intended for 16 the visible minorities. That is something that is not 17 acceptable. 18 599 Thank you very much. 19 600 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 20 much, Mr. Syed. You will be happy to know there are 21 now nine new Commissioners that have joined within the 22 last year. Maybe that will have some effect on how 23 open minded you believe the institution is. 24 601 I have one questions for you. You 25 made a comment about allowing foreign services in, StenoTran 146 1 authorizing foreign services for carriage to serve 2 various ethnocultural groups until the domestic 3 services have a chance to flourish. It has been argued 4 at various proceedings before us that as soon as you 5 authorize a foreign service to be carried you preclude 6 the ability of a Canadian to start such a service 7 because that service comes in and gets launched and 8 attracts an audience and the market is so small in 9 Canada that it can only support one channel in any 10 particular niche, and sometimes, as in the case of ATN 11 you have, you know, a group of communities, ethnic 12 communities who come together to do programming on one 13 network. 14 602 What would your response be to that? 15 I am just curious. Would you take the foreign service 16 off once people have become attached to it/ 17 603 MR. SYED: I do understand the 18 significance of your question and I do agree with the 19 premise. The thing is the CRTC -- or there is no other 20 organization which can fund the local talent. The 21 local talent cannot jump out of its own. There has to 22 be some support. The CRTC has no funds, nor does any 23 other body. 24 604 ATN people -- I don't know -- 25 Chandrasekar has done personally with his own money the StenoTran 147 1 thing that he is doing, but the thing is that visible 2 minorities being what they are, I mean 10 per cent, 3 there has to be some way where the local talent has to 4 develop and they cannot just pop out itself unless the 5 funding is there. 6 605 There is no organization in Canada 7 which provides any funding to any ethnic community at 8 all. You go to the Canada Council of Arts and they 9 simply are interested in dances and all that stuff. I 10 mean there is nothing wrong with that, but the thing is 11 that they have to take into consideration the changing 12 demographic of Canada. They simply close their eyes. 13 606 The Canada Council spent last year 14 $55 million in Ontario alone. If you ask them how much 15 they have spent on the ethnic communities they simply 16 have no answer for that. 17 607 The thing is that your hands are 18 limited. I mean, you simply regulate this particular 19 industry and it is in the regulation of this industry 20 that you can wield power. The thing is that if these 21 networks come and you say, look, there is a changing 22 face of Canada and you have to pay attention to it. 23 You do -- we, in any case, watch the CBC and all of 24 us -- the thing is that what we see is nothing of our 25 interest. StenoTran 148 1 608 We do watch news. The thing is that 2 there is so many programs which are intended for -- I 3 mean there is nothing wrong with that, but they have to 4 take into consideration the other things. We are 5 paying money. The money that we pay goes to the CBC as 6 well and that is the thing. 7 609 So, my suggestion is that the CRTC 8 has only stick and that stick is of the renewal of the 9 licences. They can only say, look here, this is the 10 thing. We are having pressure. We see there is a 11 changing face in Canada and you have to take notice of 12 it. 13 610 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 14 much. 15 611 Commissioner Langford. 16 612 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I will try to 17 be brief because I don't want to slow other people 18 down, but a couple of things that you said caught my 19 interest, one Martha has already addressed, but a 20 couple of others. 21 613 With regard to renewal of licences, 22 like the CBC and CTV. Coincidentally, they are coming 23 up for renewal this year, so I am interested in your 24 comments obviously. But I wonder how you address this 25 sort of a problem, that though Toronto is a large part StenoTran 149 1 of the Canadian reality, it is not the only part of the 2 Canadian reality and the CBC is trying to program for 3 the whole Canadian reality. I don't want to appear to 4 be an apologist for the CBC, but I just want to try to 5 state the other side of the coin. 6 614 So that if they are programming for 7 Yellowknife or Halifax or Tuktoyaktuk or Edmonton, they 8 may be looking at a completely different demographic 9 mix than Toronto. Are you suggesting that the CRTC 10 make specific ethnocultural licensing conditions that 11 would reflect the Toronto reality, but in a sense not 12 reflect other parts of Canada? How do we deal with 13 that balancing problem? 14 615 MR. SYED: It is not a question of 15 Toronto. What about Vancouver? Vancouver has a very 16 large population of Asians. There are a number of 17 pockets where the thing is -- 18 616 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: But I am 19 saying what about Canada? 20 617 MR. SYED: The thing is the CBC is 21 programming on a national level. You may be probably 22 right because of 90 per cent, but when they are coming 23 to Ontario they have to entirely change that complex 24 because they are catering to a population of which half 25 of which does not speak English and French. StenoTran 150 1 618 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So would you 2 make them -- I am not trying to interrupt, but I am 3 just trying to speed this along a little because there 4 are so many people, but would you make then a clear 5 delineation between local CBC program, which they have 6 a local CBC station here, and national CBC programming? 7 Is that really what we are going for here? 8 619 MR. SYED: Probably that will serve 9 the purpose, if local CBC programming -- even that 10 doesn't do anything at all. If you watch local CBC 11 programming, not even 10 per cent of the ethnic or 12 third language is there. I mean it is entirely devoted 13 to one angle, one slant. 14 620 So, if you want to confine CBC 15 national and CBC regional, then of course we will go 16 for -- and CBC Ontario and they provide us a chunk of 17 time which should be reflected by the demographic 18 fields. 19 621 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thanks very 20 much. 21 622 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much 22 for being with us. 23 623 MS RHÉAUME: The next presenter is 24 Mr. Ajit Jain, Secretary for the South Asian 25 Journalists' Club. StenoTran 151 1 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 2 624 MR. JAIN: Good afternoon, Madam 3 Chairperson and also the Commissioner, fellow 4 professional journalists and experts here. 5 625 As the first speaker mentioned about 6 Asian Television Network and the discussion also 7 started with my previous speaker, I do agree with both 8 speakers that it is futile on the part of the CRTC to 9 give a specialty licence to Asian Television Network 10 and not ensure that the cable companies comply -- that 11 they have a licence and the cable companies co-operate 12 and give them the channel. So, two years have passed 13 and the programs are coming along, you require a dish 14 and you pay "x" amount of money. The result is the 15 viewers are not there. The viewers are not there 16 because you have to first buy a dish. You have to 17 install a dish and it takes so much effort and many 18 people say they don't know whether the program is going 19 to continue or not. So the cable companies have to be 20 advised to co-operate. 21 626 But the opening thing for me, this 22 kind of review, as has been mentioned, it is important 23 to get input from all across the country, from 24 different professional organizations, experts in the 25 broadcasting field and others. This should not be a StenoTran 152 1 one-time review, as has been mentioned earlier. This 2 is very significant. It has to be monitored because 3 the situation in the country is constantly changing and 4 I will have to, even for the sake of repetition it has 5 been mentioned about statistics, census figures, that 6 around 200,000 people are being admitted into the 7 country on an annual basis, an ongoing basis and come 8 in different categories, independent immigrants, 9 professionals, people under the family reunification 10 clause and also business people who come here to make 11 investments. They are admitted as investors. They 12 bring different types of experiences, their different 13 cultural and ethno background, different religions. 14 627 Seventy-thousand people come to this 15 city alone and all the beautiful faces come each year 16 to this city alone. Now, they don't look alike. They 17 look different because they come from different 18 countries and they come from different backgrounds. 19 Their needs are completely different. Many of them 20 don't speak a word of English. They don't speak a word 21 of French. It doesn't mean they are illiterate. They 22 bring a wealth of experience and it is because of their 23 experience. It is because of their qualifications. It 24 is because of their degrees they have from third 25 countries that Canada Immigration allows them to come StenoTran 153 1 to this country. 2 628 Once they come here what do we do 3 about their needs? The 1996 census was mentioned 4 earlier and here I have the figures. There about 3.2 5 million visible minority people in the country and of 6 these 700,000 are South Asians. I represent at least 7 those 700,000 as my friend to my left does. In Toronto 8 alone there are 353,000 South Asians and a population 9 of known French, known English-speaking people are 10 projected by demographers to exceed to 54 per cent by 11 the end of the century. It is just one year, barely 12 one year. 13 629 So our suggestion, I am talking on 14 behalf of the South Asian Journalists' Club, the South 15 Asian journalists as a whole, that this kind of review 16 of the broadcasting policy should be an ongoing 17 exercise, a regular exercise to get input from people 18 at large to regularly review the needs of the new 19 immigrants and also to ascertain reactions of 20 Canadians, Canadians at large. 21 630 There is no doubt of expertise in the 22 country. Expertise is not confined. After all, CBC, 23 TV Ontario, as was mentioned earlier, are being 24 financed by the Canadian taxpayers, by him and me and 25 you alike, so these organizations at least have to meet StenoTran 154 1 the needs of the larger population, a population 2 comprising of different religions, different ethnic 3 groups, different cultural groups and that is not 4 happening, most unfortunately. 5 631 Whether the CBC should be following, 6 as the Commissioner asked, a country-wide policy or 7 confined to a local pocket, what about the local 8 programming? The question was asked, you see. If they 9 are thinking of the entire Canadian policy and the 10 Canadian population, the Canadian population normally 11 comprises of 100 per cent French speaking, 100 per cent 12 WASP, but the population has changed and this factor, 13 this important factor cannot be ignored. The viewers 14 have changed. What about the needs of these viewers? 15 632 Coming now to the needs of our group, 16 that is the South Asian population, you, friends, 17 sitting on the board, members of the CRTC, should know 18 that in India -- I have to mention that -- there are 19 19 different languages and 353,000 people who live in 20 Toronto alone speak these 19 different languages. I am 21 not expecting the CBC or TV Ontario to start 22 programming in 19 different languages, but here is the 23 Asian Television Network which was mentioned, a 24 specialty channel and they got a licence so that they 25 could present programming in 19 different languages. StenoTran 155 1 633 Predominantly, I will take out of 2 those 19 different languages those who are here and 3 speak Punjabi, Busarati (ph) and Hindi. These are 4 three major languages. In Pakistan, a neighbouring 5 country of India, they speak Urdu as their main 6 language. In Bangladesh, another neighbouring country, 7 and these people are here in a large number, they speak 8 Urdu and Bengali. Immigrants from Sri Lanka, another 9 South Asian country, speak two major languages, Tamil 10 and Sinhalese. Immigrants from Nepal speak Nepalese 11 and Hindu. 12 634 In your current exercise you have to 13 bear this fact in mind that there is an important 14 segment of the Canadian population who speak all these 15 languages, but many of them also speak English 16 fluently. I never said they don't speak English. They 17 are here. 18 635 There are immigrants who are admitted 19 under the Family Reunification clause which is very 20 important, largely seniors, and they don't speak 21 English or French. They speak Hindi, Punjabi, Tamil 22 and Urdu. These people are emotionally attached to 23 their respective religions as any new immigrant. Many 24 of them are Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists or followers of 25 Islam like my friend. How this diversity -- it is very StenoTran 156 1 important -- is reflected in the CRTC policies simply 2 reviews, simply asking questions, satisfies their 3 needs. 4 636 People have written, people have made 5 telephone calls. They have made representations, 6 letters to the editor have appeared. People have met 7 Perrin Beatty, a friend of this friend, and his 8 predecessors from the CBC, but the policies don't seem 9 to have changed. The CBC's attitude hasn't changed at 10 all. The CBC thinks the country is what it was 20 11 years back and it still continues to be dominated by 12 programming that largely caters to a WASP population or 13 French Canadians. 14 637 How many visible minority faces do we 15 see on the CBC screen at least? How many reporters or 16 producers have they employed from visible minority 17 communities or from South Asians? How many South 18 Asians or visible minority experts are invited for 19 interviews or roundtable discussions on subjects that 20 affect them directly -- South Asians? 21 638 There is an enormous amount of 22 criticism of India currently going on in the mainstream 23 media on the treatment of Christians in some parts of 24 the country -- back in India. The CBC has not taken 25 the trouble when the subject is so insensitive, so StenoTran 157 1 emotional, of inviting some indo-Canadian experts who 2 know what is happening, who know the country, who know 3 the minority groups, either professional journalists, 4 broadcasters, teachers or the students or the regular 5 visitors or the business people who also visit the 6 country or the politicians who visit from India or the 7 South Asian subcontinent here and they have the 8 information. 9 639 People sit at a desk in the CBC 10 building and they take it upon themselves that they are 11 experts in all conceivable subjects or they have their 12 own list of favourites who are invited to discuss any 13 and every subject, most unfortunately, and I consider 14 that and my friends consider that to be very unfair to 15 minority communities. These are harsh words, but they 16 have to be said here. 17 640 So, to answer your first question, as 18 to the extent the present broadcasting system serves 19 Canada's ethnocultural communities, my answer is 20 minimal. There is just no interest to serve the new 21 Canadians, certainly from my home country I will say, 22 from the subcontinent which is part of my home country, 23 South Asia. 24 641 Your second question relates to the 25 demographic changes that have taken place in the StenoTran 158 1 country and how can the needs and interests of 2 ethnocultural communities continue to be served? I 3 stated earlier the existing networks are hardly 4 responding to the needs of ethnocultural communities or 5 their interest. How many Canadians what Devali (ph) 6 is? Devali is Christmas. Devali is New Years for 7 Indians, for Hindus largely. 8 642 How many people know that, as he 9 mentioned, the significance of Ramadhan? This lack of 10 awareness is attributed, frankly, to the lack of 11 interest on the part of the TV networks or the part of 12 radio stations. The community groups, the various 13 Hindu temples organize major festivities in Toronto. 14 They send press release, make telephone calls with out 15 any response. 16 643 They don't know how to write press 17 releases they are told, so you, the CRTC, has to send a 18 directive, if it is within your mandate, I am not sure, 19 to the CBC, CTV. You said they are coming for review, 20 their licence, and this is the question to be asked. 21 This is the information they must provide to the CRTC, 22 that they have to have a time slot for ethnic 23 programming, for programming of different religions to 24 respond to the needs of around 12 per cent of the 25 visible minority population and also for other groups StenoTran 159 1 on behalf of the South Asian media. 2 644 My suggestion is that various TV 3 networks, radio stations, should be advised to set up 4 advisory panels of the ethnic journalists, academics, 5 artists who provide regular input regarding the needs 6 of the respective groups. Similarly, the CRTC itself 7 could have a panel on these lines as part of their 8 ongoing review of their policies. 9 645 Thank you, Commissioners, for 10 listening to me. 11 646 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much 12 for your contribution this afternoon. 13 647 MS RHÉAUME: The next presentation is 14 by Ms Elvira Sanchez de Malicki of the Canadian 15 Hispanic Congress. 16 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 17 648 MS SANCHEZ de MALICKI: Buenos 18 tardes. Muchas gracias. Me nombre es Elvira Sanchez 19 de Malicki. And no, I am not going to speak everything 20 in Spanish, don't worry. 21 649 I am the founding President of the 22 Canadian Hispanic Congress, the national organization 23 which represents more than 700,000 Spanish-speaking 24 people with origins in more than 20 different countries 25 and who now live in Canada. The CHC is a member of the StenoTran 160 1 Canadian Ethnocultural Council and the National 2 organization of Immigrant and Visible Minority Women of 3 Canada, organizations which represent the more than 50 4 per cent of Canada's population which are neither of 5 English, French or native origin. 6 650 I am a director and independent 7 producer involved in Hispanic theatre and television 8 since the early seventies. Most of the work has been 9 done without remuneration. There is not much money in 10 ethnic productions and almost no chance to work in 11 mainstream productions. 12 651 For almost two decades I have been a 13 "card-carrying" member of ACTRA. "Card-carrying" has a 14 different meaning when you only get called for "ethnic" 15 roles, and usually not the most glamorous ones. 16 652 I have served in the Media Committees 17 with the CEC, NOIVMW, the Canada and the ontario 18 Advisory Councils on Multiculturalism and Citizenship. 19 Last July I was appointed to the board of Telefilm 20 Canada. But I am not speaking as a member of Telefilm. 21 They will be making their submission later on to you. 22 653 I will not bring you statistics. I 23 believe all the resources to get all the statistics 24 about Canada's ethnocultural communities and you also 25 should be very much aware of the importance of living StenoTran 161 1 in this global village. I am not going to be ethno 2 specific in my comments, but I am speaking to you as a 3 Canadian citizen who can't accept the fact that the 4 demographic reality of Canada is blatantly absent from 5 our radios, cinemas, television and "new media". 6 654 I am speaking for the millions who 7 can't or won't because they feel utterly helpless and 8 frustrated living in a society that boasts about its 9 human rights, its equality and respect for all, yet, 10 fails to accurately reflect its people. Does the fact 11 that we don't see nor hear them mean that they don't 12 exist? We have numerous acts, laws and regulations in 13 favour of protecting and nurturing Canada's diversity 14 yet, the reality we live is so contrary to the stated 15 ideals. 16 655 We must stop representing ours as a 17 unichrome/unitone society. Because this, we are not. 18 656 Since the broadcast media is the most 19 powerful tool for influencing or educating society, the 20 CRTC must establish now the mechanisms which will help 21 to ensure that the demographic reality of Canada is 22 fairly and equitably reflected in its radio, film, 23 television and new media screens in order to ensure 24 that all Canadians have equal access participation and 25 representation in the economic, political, social and StenoTran 162 1 cultural life of Canada. 2 657 The CRTC should ensure that the 3 Broadcasting Act reflects the demographic reality of 4 Canada, respects the Multiculturalism Act and embraces 5 the Constitution of Canada which states that 6 "multiculturalism is a fundamental characteristic of 7 Canada". 8 658 It is absolutely unacceptable to 9 speak of our multicultural and multiracial reality and 10 omit the obvious multilingual reality. Or are we to 11 perpetuate the Victoria ways that "children must be 12 seen, but not heard?" 13 659 I have typed some proposed changes to 14 the Broadcasting Act. I know that the CRTC doesn't do 15 the changes, but I am sure and trust that after hearing 16 the presentations here today you will bring it to the 17 powers that be and, hopefully, there will be a 18 revision, especially on the issue of the two official 19 languages, which is very discriminatory to a 20 multilingual society. 21 660 When we consider relevant Canadian 22 content it is important to note that not all cable 23 companies are required to provide a community channel 24 and thus, ethnic programming has suffered so that there 25 are less and less opportunities to produce and air StenoTran 163 1 ethnic programming. 2 661 The fact that a Canadian host 3 introduces videos, films or any kind of show which 4 consists of, primarily, imported audiovisual material, 5 and such program is packaged and broadcast in Canada, 6 does not constitute Canadian content. Canadian content 7 should reflect the Canadian point of view in all of its 8 different expressions, be reflective of our demographic 9 reality and be relevant to Canadians. 10 662 Relevant Canadian content should be 11 varied and include programming in all the genres, 12 including information, documentaries, drama, children's 13 programming. 14 663 Mainstream broadcasters do not 15 produce Canadian content which promotes intercultural 16 understanding. 17 664 The whole issue of brokerage by 18 mainstream broadcasters should be reviewed by the CRTC. 19 It allows for a two-tier system of accessibility of our 20 broadcast channels and permits loopholes in Canadian 21 content requirements. 22 665 The CRTC's policies on carriage of 23 ethnic stations and foreign services: The current CRTC 24 policy that 10 per cent of a community must be ethnic 25 origin before service is carried is discriminatory and StenoTran 164 1 must be revised. This policy denies access. 2 666 It is important that audiences decide 3 which discretionary services they are willing to pay 4 for. 5 667 The CRTC has allowed foreign services 6 to be carried by cable companies which is less of a 7 priority than strengthening Canadian ethnic services. 8 668 Regarding community audience input: 9 Licensees of third language and ethnic broadcasting, 10 and basically all licensees, should be sensitive and 11 responsive to the needs and demands of the community 12 they purport to serve. 13 669 Some principles for the Commission to 14 embrace in, and I don't like saying ethnic broadcasting 15 because I believe it should be just Canadian 16 broadcasting. 17 670 Ethnic broadcasting has evolved 18 significantly since 1985 when the CRTC first issued its 19 Policy on Ethnic Broadcasting and should continue to be 20 an integral component of the Canadian broadcasting 21 system. 22 671 I would like to make the following 23 recommendations: 24 672 That the CRTC adopt an integrative 25 approach to its ethnic policy. Semantics are not StenoTran 165 1 important. "Broadcasting Policy Reflecting Canada's 2 Cultural and linguistic Diversity" was a better name 3 and that was what was used 15 years ago. Now having it 4 as "Third Language and Ethnic Broadcasting" is 5 basically pigeonholing it into something that is very 6 unacceptable. 7 673 That the CRTC develops new guidelines 8 for -- and this I want you to please take close note. 9 That the CRTC develops new guidelines for the 10 certification of Canadian content, perhaps by the use 11 of a score-card rating system whereby the reflection of 12 Canada's demographic reality is integral to the 13 certification. 14 674 I find that very often productions 15 which could qualify as Canadian content are 16 disqualified if they are done on a third language and 17 that is not fair. So, I think that the CRTC should 18 look at the certification of Canadian content to make 19 sure that if you are using a score-card system or 20 whatever system at least certain points are given for 21 the reflection of Canada's diversity or points being 22 taken out if it doesn't. 23 675 That all, ethnic as well as 24 mainstream, Canadian broadcasters, including the CBC 25 and Radio-Canada, be encouraged to produce relevant StenoTran 166 1 Canadian content in all genres. It is not fair that 2 our main public broadcaster blatantly ignores our 3 reality. 4 676 That the CRTC review the practice of 5 brokering programming. 6 677 That the CRTC review its current 7 policy on carriage of ethnic broadcasting services. I 8 make this a priority over the additional entry into 9 Canada and carriage by cable companies of more foreign 10 services, especially if we take into consideration the 11 fact that digital compression will enable cable 12 companies to carry many channels. 13 678 That the CRTC make ethnic 14 broadcasters more responsive to the views of audiences 15 and accountable to them. 16 679 That more international 17 co-productions be encouraged. 18 680 That there be support in terms of 19 financing for Canadian ethnic programming to allow, for 20 example, higher budget and quality programming to be 21 produced. It is ridiculous to expect ethnic 22 programming to be produced with no financing. Then 23 they say, "Well, why are we going to put ethnic 24 programming if it is of such low quality?" I mean 25 where is fairness? Where is equity in this country. StenoTran 167 1 681 So, there should be financing 2 available to all ethnic programming and allow the 3 programming to evolve. 4 682 I would like to conclude with a 5 comment that came from a consensus established by other 6 ethnocultural groups. 7 683 One, that ethnic broadcasting in 8 Canada has evolved and it is an important activity to 9 be nurtured by the CRTC. 10 684 Two, there are distinct differences 11 between mere foreign services being available to ethnic 12 Canadians and home grown Canadian ethnic broadcasting. 13 One of the most important differences is Cancon 14 programming. 15 685 Three, there is great need and demand 16 for a national multicultural/multilingual television 17 network to broadcast in basic cable. The CRTC should 18 consider the licensing of such a network as a priority. 19 Why should ethnics always pay for the possibility of 20 receiving service in their languages. 21 686 Four, ethnic Cancon should be just as 22 vibrant and varied as any other Canadian television 23 programming. In fact, there should be more 24 opportunities for international co-production in the 25 case of ethnic programming which by nature often covers StenoTran 168 1 two or more perspectives, like Hispanic Canadians, et 2 cetera. 3 687 Fifth, the Canadian television 4 support programs must also support Canadian ethnic 5 programming so that it can reach its true potential -- 6 higher budget documentaries and investigative 7 journalism, dramatic programming. 8 688 Hopefully, the CRTC once it has 9 completed its review of broadcasting in Canada will 10 implement the necessary systems to ensure that concrete 11 programs and changes are made. As I said at the 12 beginning, I have been at this for close to 30 years 13 and not much has changed. 14 689 Thank you. 15 690 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 16 much, Ms. Sanchez de Malicki. I am not going to ask 17 you questions. You have provided a very thorough brief 18 here and thank you for presenting your views to us. 19 691 MS SANCHEZ de MALICKI: Thank you. 20 692 MS RHÉAUME: The next presentation is 21 by Mr. William Marshall, President of PolyMedia, a 22 Division of Cybermedia Inc. If you will introduce the 23 rest of your party, Mr. Marshall. 24 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 25 693 MR. MARSHALL: Thank you. StenoTran 169 1 694 Thank you, Madam Chair, 2 Commissioners, ladies and gentlemen. There are three 3 of us here this evening and to establish our ethnicity 4 I would introduce my colleague Ljubo Milinovic who came 5 to Canada in a very unorthodox manner and a very speedy 6 manner by leaving the former Yugoslavia, and Sari Ruda 7 who came to Canada in a much more restrained and 8 refined manner by leaving England. I myself am a son 9 of Scotland and we understand about separatism and some 10 of the other events that reflect our nation in Canada. 11 I am proud to say that we are the only English-speaking 12 member of the countries that speak English that are 13 everyone else says should have interpreters at all 14 times. 15 695 We are at PolyMedia created to cater 16 to the ethnic marketplace within the broadcast arena. 17 We are exclusive Canadian agents on behalf of foreign 18 broadcasters and we are trying to identify 19 opportunities and promote their services within Canada. 20 696 Our roster of representation is 21 constantly growing as it fulfils its mandate to reach 22 every major group in Canada with the best in original 23 programming from each of those countries. We currently 24 have eight of the number one or number two stations in 25 each country in the world under contract and six more StenoTran 170 1 in negotiation. None of them are in competition with 2 any licensed or planned Canadian ethnic channels that 3 we know of, with the possible exception of ATN and that 4 we have an Indian channel. 5 697 It is our view that the call is not 6 before time that ethnic broadcasting and the new 7 realities of ethnicity in Canada have changed since the 8 1985 policies. We do not believe and we have been told 9 by the communities that we speak to that the goal of 10 making immigrants better Canadians is attainable by the 11 use of television and radio of the existing Canadian 12 production, the CBC or the CTV, as people have been 13 talking about. 14 698 We think that if there are ways to 15 achieve this goal it is through three other ways, 16 education of young children -- children of immigrants, 17 the workplace where immigrants get jobs and you have to 18 speak a mutual language in order to get on, whether you 19 are a financial institution or a high-tech company or 20 working for a cab company. Then the ethnic community 21 organizations which don't just reinforce the home 22 culture and the home language, but the organizations 23 which Canada is very richly endowed with, outreach 24 programs for the ethnic communities to work with the 25 larger Canadian communities. They are also strong StenoTran 171 1 spokespeople for the needs and aspirations of the 2 individual communities. 3 699 Speaking for television only, we 4 think ethnic television has three key roles in Canada. 5 Number one is a link for the ethnic communities because 6 of their homeland and culture, a way to deal with the 7 isolation that some of the other speakers have 8 addressed. 9 700 We see it as an aid to strengthening 10 ethnic community links in major centres of Canada and 11 across Canada, and a strengthening of the knowledge of 12 ethnic heritage, particularly for children of 13 immigrants who are gradually immersed in the large 14 Canadian community. 15 701 Three major shifts have taken place 16 worldwide since the establishment of the CRTC's 1985 17 policy. There has been mammoth growth of television 18 worldwide, with many more countries and many more 19 channels and the growth of delivery systems and private 20 competition for state run broadcast systems which 21 simply didn't exist 15 years ago. 22 702 There is a huge and burgeoning growth 23 in global satellite delivery, allowing countries to 24 export day and date their programming. You no longer 25 have to wait two weeks to see a cricket match or a StenoTran 172 1 formula-one race or a soccer game. You can see it now. 2 703 As other speakers have eloquently 3 pointed out, there has been a dramatic shift in the 4 ethnic immigration to Canada. You have got all the 5 statistics in the world and if we take Toronto alone, 6 with 33 per cent of Toronto residents saying that they 7 use a language other than English or French exclusively 8 in their home, I think it is obvious that the ability 9 to receive television in your home language is crucial 10 to these people. 11 704 We don't see a reason to change 12 multiculturalism as a goal and a useful way to be part 13 of this country for the foreseeable future. In 14 television we see the emphasis shifting to monocultural 15 rather than multicultural and by that I mean in the two 16 stations that you have in Toronto and Montreal there is 17 ethnic programming to be sure, but it is a half an hour 18 a week. I don't know that you can maintain your 19 Macedonian heritage on a half an hour a week or your 20 Somali heritage, but it doesn't seem likely. More and 21 more those channels are looking for ways to make money 22 to stay alive. They have found a way to do that is to 23 rerun American programming. It is creeping up and 24 creeping up and I am sure that when you see the 25 responses that they have in terms of where they get StenoTran 173 1 money from, it is from advertisers looking to audiences 2 who are watching that programming, not necessarily the 3 narrowcasting. 4 705 So we think we should figure out 5 first how to strengthen Canadian ethnic channels and 6 then decide some criteria that would be useful to allow 7 foreign and ethnic channels. Both channels have one 8 problem in common, carriage, access to the airwaves. 9 We think there should be funding for Canadian ethnic 10 programming. We see three ways that this could be done 11 very specifically. One is to take added profits from 12 advertising sales of American and foreign programming 13 on the multicultural channels and make a significant 14 portion of those revenues available to the Canadian 15 ethnic channels for programming purposes. 16 706 Now, the Canadian companies and DTH 17 carriers are selling Canadian ethnic channels at $10 18 and $10 a month to subscribers when they put them on. 19 A healthy proportion of their retained share of that 20 subscription fee should be designated for programming 21 Canadian ethnic channels and that simply isn't being 22 done just now. 23 707 If foreign ethnic channels are 24 licensed, then the same commitment should be made 25 there. A commitment should be made for the foreign StenoTran 174 1 channels to acquire and pay for new programming 2 initiatives that are done by the Canadian ethnic 3 channels. If we are going to find criteria for 4 licensing foreign ethnic channels, we would say that 5 they include at least these three: Proof of major 6 success and penetration in the home country market; 7 proven export value, with a significant track record of 8 acceptance by immigrants in countries around the world, 9 and full compliance with CRTC regulations and a 10 commitment to digital delivery, a la carte pay services 11 to the Canadian subscriber. 12 708 Now, if I can go back for a moment to 13 the problems of carriage that have been mentioned 14 before. I don't go to many CRTC hearings, but when the 15 cable companies come before you these days I don't know 16 how you keep a straight face and don't laugh them out 17 of the room, or else get really mad at them. For 10 18 years they have been promising you, if you would just 19 let us do this, some day we will have digital delivery. 20 If we could just have that, some day you could have 21 digital delivery. Oh, let us spend more money getting 22 the NFL football games on on Sunday and pretty soon 23 we'll have digital delivery for ethnic programming. 24 709 It has never happened. It is never 25 going to happen. The CRTC must make the cable StenoTran 175 1 companies move to digital carriage. They keep saying 2 they can't do it because the equipment doesn't work. 3 710 Well, there are 8 million homes in 4 America magically getting their services from digital 5 boxes. It is not being done by tin cans and a piece of 6 wire. It is being done by the boxes that are available 7 now and they are available in Canada and if you tell 8 them you are going to put them off the air unless they 9 let people have digital delivery, they will be able to 10 get them into Canadian homes as fast as those little 11 trucks can move around the neighbourhoods. 12 711 And another way you could fund 13 digital conversion is to take this secret fund that 14 everybody keeps forgetting about. The cable companies 15 ask for all sorts of congratulations for contributing 16 to the Canadian Television Fund. Well, it's not their 17 money. This was -- years ago 10 per cent was added to 18 everybody's cable bill because the cable systems 19 convinced the CRTC that they needed a 10 per cent 20 surcharge in order to improve equipment. I don't know 21 about yours, but I haven't seen it at my house. 22 712 They got this and then when the 23 deadline came for the ending of this, the deal was made 24 to say, "Well, let's take 5 per cent of that 10 per 25 cent and give that back to programming for Canadian StenoTran 176 1 television," but the other 5 per cent didn't go 2 anywhere. It stays in the pockets of the cable 3 companies. 4 713 They could use that to do digital 5 boxes. They could use that for local ethnic 6 programming. They could do something, but they don't 7 have to keep the money. 8 714 Talking about the foreign ethnic 9 channels again, when we were talking about some of the 10 criteria involved. There is no magic to the number 28 11 per cent, but three or four of the channels that we 12 represent have a market penetration of 20 per cent of 13 the ethnic community in England, Europe and the United 14 States, with subscribers willing almost universally to 15 pay approximately $20 a month for the single channel 16 that they get on top of the basic cable or DTH costs. 17 So there clearly seems to be a reason that people want 18 to do that. The service is needed and it is wanted. 19 715 Operating an a la carte pay service 20 on a digital platform is fine for our clients, but so 21 far that platform is very short and narrow. 22 716 So, we would make six recommendations 23 to make ethnic broadcasting in Canada more relevant to 24 the needs and desires of the immigrant communities. 25 717 The first would be to maintain and StenoTran 177 1 strengthen the ethnic content of the two existing 2 multicultural television channels. 3 718 The second would be to support the 4 newly-licensed Canadian ethnic specialty services and 5 increase their carriage nationally. 6 719 Three would be to allow these 7 Canadian ethnic specialty channels to experiment with 8 regional and national content for their singular ethnic 9 markets and allow the maximum flexibility for them to 10 create Canadian programming in the ethnic languages or 11 English or French as they see fit. 12 720 In terms of financing that kind of 13 programming, we look at at least one of the channels 14 that we represent which in England is spending 35 per 15 cent of its programming dollars in the United Kingdom 16 producing United Kingdom programming for the ethnic 17 channel. I think most of the major channels around the 18 world would have no problem doing that sort of thing. 19 721 We think that the fourth 20 recommendation is to support the licensing of foreign 21 ethnic channels with a proven international audience 22 and with support in Canada. 23 722 Fifth, we would suggest that you 24 encourage in the strongest possible ways cable 25 companies to meet their oft-promised and StenoTran 178 1 under-delivered digital programming commitments. 2 723 Finally, we would encourage digital 3 delivery of ethnic services on DTH and MMDS systems as 4 a condition of licence to match the new delivery 5 systems that will theoretically be installed by the 6 cable companies. 7 724 Thank you very much. 8 725 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner 9 Langford has a couple of questions for you. 10 726 Thank you, Mr. Marshall. 11 727 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thanks very 12 much, Mr. Marshall. 13 728 Your colleague, Sari Ruda, who was 14 here last night may have told you that we had some 15 views that weren't quite identical with yours in 16 certain areas. I think the main thrust of what you are 17 saying is generally appreciated, but there were a 18 couple of areas. Mainly in the area of licensing 19 foreign ethnic channels, where other commentators spoke 20 out quite strongly against it. 21 729 Their point, and I always hate to try 22 to take a point just on a 10-minute presentation, but I 23 think it was that if we bring in a foreign ethnic 24 channel we will stifle the incentive for local talent 25 and local production because they just won't be able to StenoTran 179 1 compete. This full blown, as found service will be 2 there, assuming carriage, and for these people working 3 out of their production equivalents of what the 4 propeller heads call the skunk works or whatever, they 5 just won't be able to compete with this. I just wonder 6 how you respond to that problem. 7 730 MR. MARSHALL: Yes. I think we 8 pointed out a couple of ways in which more revenues 9 could be available for local ethnic programming. I 10 think it is true it would be folly to use the Canadian 11 airwaves, a Canadian entity that is owned by all of us 12 sheerly for the profit of outsiders. 13 731 But I think one of the ways in which 14 you could add to the financing that would be available 15 and add to international value of Canadian ethnic 16 talent, and I guess I look to the music industry this 17 way too. As you in the radio business increase 18 Canadian content, then magically the stars that have 19 always been here in Canada got played enough and had 20 enough money to then go to the United States and the 21 world market and become the major stars that they are 22 now. 23 732 I think I have said that some of the 24 channels that we are talking about representing have no 25 problem whatsoever in saying our people around the StenoTran 180 1 world all have relatives, not just in their home 2 country, but in other countries around the world, 3 including Canada. Obviously, we are one of the major 4 basins of immigration. So, why wouldn't it make sense 5 for them to pay for the licensing of Canadian talent 6 and Canadian productions and put it on the air around 7 the world. So, it wouldn't just be something that 8 would help here, but it would help that talent have 9 exposure around the world. 10 733 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thanks very 11 much. 12 734 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 13 much, Mr. -- 14 735 MS RUDA: May I answer that question 15 as well? I'm sorry, I'm part of the team. Is that all 16 right. 17 736 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: No problem. 18 Carry on. 19 737 MS RUDA: I would just like to say 20 that in the work that we do we involve ourselves very 21 much with the community groups and we liaise all the 22 time with them. We go to their events. We get to know 23 them. I think there is room for the co-existence of 24 both Canadian produced channels -- I mean programming 25 and channels, as well as foreign channels. StenoTran 181 1 738 When we tell them what we are 2 thinking of doing, they say to us, "This is fabulous. 3 We love that channel. We can't wait to get it. Work 4 hard and get it in for us." 5 739 I say, "Well, what about the existing 6 channels?" They say, "Well, that's fine too because 7 that gives us a local perspective, but what we miss is 8 finding out what is happening at home. We want to know 9 what is happening at home. We don't want to live there 10 any more. We like living in Canada, but we need -- we 11 want to be able to touch what goes on." 12 740 So, I think there is room for both 13 things to co-exist, particularly if the foreign 14 channels could be encouraged to perhaps put some of 15 their money into production here, so that there could 16 be some kind of a joint venture in production, that 17 would soften the blow and it would allow for 18 opportunities to go, as Bill said, both sides of the 19 border. So that not only the Canadian talent would 20 merely service the Canadian market, but also be 21 exported. 22 741 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: But we had a 23 gentleman here yesterday who was -- I'm afraid I don't 24 remember his name. He was responsible for putting on 25 one hour of Serbian broadcasting -- you remember that StenoTran 182 1 gentleman -- a week. He talked about the announcements 2 from home and how they worked so hard to put this on. 3 They had no budget. Everybody is a volunteer. He also 4 does the newspaper, this guy, and he makes me feel like 5 I don't work for a living he does so much. How does he 6 compete, for example, and they may be a slightly 7 bizarre example, but if we were to bring in, if we were 8 to license a full Serbian channel? Where does this man 9 go with his hour? I notice that half of the team is 10 not answering. 11 742 MR. MARSHALL: We are in a discussion 12 about components of the former Yugoslavia. 13 743 MS RUDA: We should explain that 14 Ljubo is from Croatia, so we were wondering how to 15 answer that question. 16 744 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I am just 17 using it as an example. I don't want to get into 18 politics. Please, no politics. This is strictly 19 programming, not politics. 20 745 MR. MARSHALL: All broadcasting is 21 politics. 22 746 The answer to that is I don't know. 23 Is there a big enough audience in Canada for a Serbian 24 channel? If there is, there should be a Serbian 25 channel. If there is enough audience for a sliver of StenoTran 183 1 Serbian programming, then there should be Serbian 2 programs. If Serbians watch the show or other people 3 who are interested in things Serbian watch the show, it 4 will attract this audience and it will survive and 5 prosper. 6 747 If it has no audience and no back-up 7 and no popularity, then it will wither on the vine and 8 I guess that's what happens in everything. 9 748 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I don't want 10 to beat this to death, but this does go to the heart of 11 an issue that we have heard here I think over the last 12 two days repeatedly. It seems to me that there is a 13 problem here, that if we are to encourage and to 14 cultivate local homegrown talent of a multicultural 15 nature, the type that our friend -- 16 749 THE CHAIRPERSON: Bora Dragasevich. 17 750 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank you. 18 That he was speaking about, the kind of access he has 19 been frustrated not to be able to obtain, how do we do 20 that if we bring in full-blown a foreign competitor? 21 How does these people get access? 22 751 MR. MARSHALL: I think I tried, but 23 obviously failed to communicate what I was saying. 24 First of all, this isn't just an ethnic problem. This 25 is a Canadian problem. The CRTC allows television StenoTran 184 1 networks in this country to use the majority of prime 2 time for American shows. Canadian actors, other 3 members of ACTRA who have been card carrying for a long 4 time find it difficult to get jobs because there aren't 5 enough jobs available. 6 752 I think in terms of -- is it going to 7 be that ethnic programming is going to produce a 8 million new stars in various ethnic groups across 9 Canada? It hasn't happened for Canadian French or 10 Canadian English talents. No likelihood it will happen 11 any faster for them, except it is quite possible, as I 12 said, Canadian television is not exported around the 13 world. Canadian programming is exported around the 14 world, but no one has expressed any interest in 15 Canadian channels around the world, with the exception 16 perhaps of MuchMusic selling the format. 17 753 But if somebody uses the money that 18 the foreign channel which is global and has 180 million 19 viewers around the world, or 280 million viewers around 20 the world, sees a show produced on a professional level 21 by somebody from that ethnic persuasion in Toronto and 22 they like that person, they are going to want it. Not 23 just for the half hour or hour that that show is on, 24 but possibly for them to be an international star, as I 25 gave you the example of the Canadian stars singing StenoTran 185 1 country music or singing ballads or whatever. They 2 only became magically stars around the rest of the 3 world when they had access. 4 754 Right now it is hard enough for a 5 Canadian ethnic broadcast talent to get exposure in 6 this country. There is no exposure for them 7 internationally. This is one way to do it. 8 755 MS RUDA: Commissioner Langford, I 9 would just like to address that question that you 10 asked. How do you account for the problem which was 11 mentioned yesterday with the grey and black market? We 12 have got a lot of grey and black market dishes here and 13 there are many different reasons that people have been 14 buying grey and black market dishes, but in the ethnic 15 communities it is because they wish to receive 16 foreign-language programming. 17 756 So, while I am not advocating that we 18 have to totally change everything that is going on in 19 Canada, there is obviously a market other than just 20 people who are in remote areas who need to receive some 21 type of television. There are people who -- again, I 22 agree with you -- who are ethnics and who want to 23 receive their own programming that is being made 24 available in the States, freely available, and they are 25 picking it up over the satellite. Can you perhaps StenoTran 186 1 answer that for me, how that should be dealt with? 2 757 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: We are here, 3 as my Chair just reminded me, to give you the last 4 word. So I am going to do that and we are going to 5 move on. 6 758 MS RUDA: No, you can't get out of 7 that. Answer that question. 8 759 THE CHAIRPERSON: Oh yes he can. 9 760 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: And we are 10 going to move on to the next person, but we will answer 11 that question. That's why we are here is to ultimately 12 answer those questions and we will struggle along, but 13 thank you for your assistance. 14 761 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 15 much. I am sorry to have to sort of curb Stuart's 16 desire to engage in a longer conversation with you, but 17 we have 32 more parties to hear from tonight. 18 762 We are quite willing to stay as long 19 as that takes, but I am not sure about the 32nd party 20 who is here at midnight. So, I am going to try and 21 move us along. 22 763 In spite of what I said earlier that 23 we would wrap up at six o'clock and break for half an 24 hour, we are going to hear from two more parties before 25 we break. StenoTran 187 1 764 Madam Secretary, please call the next 2 party. 3 765 MS RHÉAUME: The next presenter is 4 Bora Hincer, President of the Federation of Canadian 5 Turkish Associations. If you would like to introduce 6 your party. Bora Hincer. 7 766 We will move on to the next party and 8 come back to that one later perhaps. 9 767 Professor Spyros Flengas of the 10 Hellenic-Canadian Federation of Ontario. 11 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 12 768 DR. FLENGAS: Yes. 13 769 Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Chairman, 14 good evening. 15 770 My name is Spyros Flengas and I am 16 the President of the Hellenic-Canadian Federation of 17 Ontario, the organization which represents the 18 communities and associations in ontario of about 19 150,000 members of the Greek community. Next to me is 20 the Secretary General of the Federation, Mr. George 21 Efstratiadis. 22 771 We welcome the opportunity to appear 23 before the CRTC and give our opinion on the issue of 24 ethnic broadcasting. it is our opinion that the 25 current policy of the CRTC to protect ethnic StenoTran 188 1 broadcasting and to allow cultural minorities to have 2 their own television and radio stations is a sound one 3 and much needed in our communities. 4 772 Today we are going to discuss out of 5 the many possible issues four issues, namely the 6 evaluation of the present system, then its ability to 7 serve the needs of our community. Third, the point of 8 access and, fourth, the costs of some of these 9 programs. I will start with the evaluation of the 10 present system. 11 773 Unfortunately, the mainstream media 12 neither have the economic interest nor the time to 13 cover the activities and interests of our communities 14 and associations. in our cast, it is almost 15 exclusively that the Greek media cover our events and 16 carry out messages to our people. 17 774 We consider it a blessing that the 18 new digital technology has allowed the CRTC the 19 opportunity to license third language ethnic television 20 program specialty channels. 21 775 We are grateful that now, through 22 Odyssey Television, as well as the other Greek TV 23 programs, the Greek Canadian community of Ontario and 24 Canada at large has its own channel in which the 25 interests of our youth and their aspirations may be StenoTran 189 1 realized and through which our people may be informed, 2 educated and entertained not only with programs from 3 Greece, but also from our communities in Canada. 4 776 Mr. George Efstratiadis can continue. 5 777 MR. EFSTRATIADIS: Thank you, 6 Professor Flengas. 7 778 I am going to draw your attention on 8 the first issue, which is the one of serving and 9 satisfying the needs of the community. 10 779 Our people have been greatly confused 11 regarding other GREEk TV signals which are freely 12 advertised in our community and are fed by satellite 13 from the United States of America. The question to ask 14 is: Are they legal or not? they naturally wonder. And 15 if they are not, why the government and the CRTC do not 16 stop them. It is a question which has not been 17 addressed adequately by our government, so that our 18 people can have a better picture. Perhaps some 19 relevant CRTC dissemination of information towards the 20 minority communities might be the solution. 21 780 The truth is, however, as we see it, 22 our people wish to see programs both from Greece and 23 from here. Our local TV programs are very important 24 for the advancement of our community, news and activity 25 projects and the programs from Greece are important StenoTran 190 1 mainly for our entertainment and news. Therefore, the 2 CRTC's present policy to force TV programmers to have 3 locally produced Canadian programs along with programs 4 from Greece is an important policy to be continued. 5 Having only programs from Greece does not help our 6 associations and communities to promote themselves. 7 The local programs, while promoting us, they also 8 promote Canadian citizenship and Canadian unity. Also, 9 local programs need the entertainment and news programs 10 from Greece. Thus, the present balance in the CRTC's 11 policy is a good one. 12 781 The second issue is a question of 13 access. I wish to draw to your attention the question 14 of access to the distribution of ethnic broadcasters. 15 We know that it has taken Odyssey more than two years 16 to find a distributor to carry their signal to our 17 people. This we find unacceptable that mainstream 18 media do find accommodation in all the distribution 19 systems, while ethnic channels, such as Odyssey, had 20 access just a month ago and only with some 21 distributors. 22 782 We believe that every Canadian, 23 regardless of geography and regardless if one resides 24 in a single or multiple dwelling, or even more 25 importantly regardless of ethnicity, must have equal StenoTran 191 1 access to the Canadian medium of their choice. It is 2 especially difficult for our people who reside in 3 multiple apartment units. Most of the management 4 companies do not allow them to receive Odyssey from 5 satellite dishes. And when they do, they find that 6 cable companies have exclusivity on TV distribution, 7 although they do not yet have digital boxes to give to 8 the people. This is an unfair benefit given to cable 9 companies which often force us to buy the packages they 10 alone design, but we must pay because we like only the 11 signal in that package. 12 783 The third issue is that of cost. 13 Most of our people are willing to pay Odyssey the 14 monthly fee of $14.95. However, the distributors force 15 you to pay in addition of the above amount, 16 approximately $22 per month for basic mainstream 17 channels and also $11 a month for the rental of their 18 digital decoder. Therefore, each Greek Canadian who 19 wishes to support its own channel must pay an average 20 of $48 a month, most of which benefits the distributor 21 and not our community channel. 22 784 We find it repulsive that the 23 consumer must finance a distributor's equipment in 24 addition for the cost of the product they deliver to 25 our homes. This is a huge disincentive for the support StenoTran 192 1 of third-language channels. Distributors benefit a lot 2 as it is now and they must not be allowed to benefit 3 even more from small community channels. 4 785 Ladies and gentlemen, the last 5 thought I wish to leave with you is the fact that most 6 of the ethnic communities in Canada are mature enough 7 and deserve to have their own media with the blessing 8 of our government and government agencies, such as the 9 CRTC. 10 786 We strongly believe that a cultural 11 community in Canada which is strong in preserving its 12 own culture -- and the media play a central in this 13 area -- it is also strong in preserving Canadian unity 14 and identity. 15 787 Thank you very much. 16 788 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 17 much, gentlemen. 18 789 MS RHÉAUME: The next presentation is 19 by Ms Yvonne Bogorya, President of the Polish-Canadian 20 Women's Federation. 21 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 22 790 MS BOGORYA: Thank you for allowing 23 me to speak before the break. 24 791 I am starting with a problem 25 statement and then the key issues and afterwards I will StenoTran 193 1 answer the three questions that you were posing in your 2 letter. 3 792 We feel that there is a strong need 4 for the CRTC to continue to encourage the growth of 5 ethnic broadcasting, which means that we feel that you 6 have already done a lot, but there is a need for more 7 because with the growing ethnic market there is a need 8 for increased ethnic programming. 9 793 We need to determine clearly the 10 definition of the term "Canadian content". We feel 11 that ethnic broadcasting should be part of it. We 12 don't want to be isolated. We feel that we would like 13 to communicate information and share our cultural 14 heritage with others. 15 794 We also need to preserve the language 16 and culture and we need to have access to the most 17 recent technology, interacting the world that is a 18 global village. more financial and technical resources 19 are needed to produce programs in languages other than 20 English and French. 21 795 What are the key issues? First of 22 all, the mainstream TV and radio programming very often 23 doesn't portray the ethnic groups, particularly when I 24 talk about Polish-Canadian women, hardly ever do I see 25 any portrayal of Polish women. The same refers to StenoTran 194 1 other, Spanish and other groups. 2 796 So, I think we need to think about -- 3 the Canadian population being diverse, we need to be 4 reflected in the programs and on the screen. 5 797 In view of recent statistics, when 6 you look at the programs and the population size and 7 the time that each station has, sometimes this is 8 inadequate. I was looking at the Polish program, let's 9 say we are the fourth biggest group in Ontario and we 10 are allocated -- we have two TV station programs, a 11 CFMT program, "Variety" and City-TV, "Polish Studio" 12 and six radio programs. The total time is three hours 13 a week and 15.8 hours radio time. So, it's three hours 14 a week TV time and 15.8 radio time. 15 798 Whereas the Portuguese group, for 16 example, which is the third largest, has 13 hours of TV 17 time and 87 hours of radio time. So there are some 18 disproportions in terms of population served, 19 geographical range, geographical access because some 20 areas don't receive programs in time to allow for 21 adequate access to other Polish Canadian communities. 22 799 For example, I remember when we 23 supported the CFMT application to broadcast their 24 programming in Vancouver. We have a large 25 Polish-Canadian community in Vancouver and it was StenoTran 195 1 denied, unfortunately. 2 800 The third issue is funding of course. 3 Funding for research and Canadian-based productions, to 4 enhance presentation of ethnocultural groups, the 5 heritage and portrayal of ethnic women, immigrants and 6 members of the community. 7 801 For many members of the 8 Polish-Canadian community, especially those who 9 experience barriers in benefiting from the mainstream 10 programming, these programs are the only source of 11 information and the only contact with the community, so 12 they play a very important role. Thank you for their 13 existence. We don't want to have less. We want to 14 have more. 15 802 Community events and programs devoted 16 to cultural heritage and achievements of Polish 17 Canadians would not be possible to be received without 18 those channels. The multicultural TV is very important 19 in here and we feel that other channels could also 20 contain some programs that would talk about heritage of 21 Canadians in Canada who are part of multiculturalism. 22 803 I remember -- I have been talking 23 about multiculturalism for 20 or 25 years and as Elvira 24 said, we still want to see tangible results. 25 804 MS SANCHEZ DE MALICKI: We are still StenoTran 196 1 very dumb. 2 805 MS BOGORYA: We are here. 3 806 Ethnic communities often struggle 4 with insufficient financing to do research and to do 5 creative and challenging programs. We need up-to-date 6 technology, studio space, accessibility to camera and 7 cameramen time. Very often this becomes a limitation 8 because cameramen cannot leave a studio and the event 9 is somewhere else, or there are some problems with 10 logistics. 11 807 Script and production money, to 12 create really challenging programs, special effects, 13 lighting -- more ambitious projects could be realized 14 with professional and financial support. It is my 15 contention that the so-called Canadian content programs 16 could benefit from the talent and expertise available 17 in our ethnic communities. Speaking on behalf of my 18 organization, I would like to see more portrayal of 19 women. 20 808 THE CHAIRPERSON: Me too. 21 809 MS BOGORYA: Also, we would like to 22 see the contribution of Canadians to the world of arts, 23 business, politics, culture, more information about 24 international affairs. It doesn't have to be a foreign 25 program purchased. There could be programs containing StenoTran 197 1 more information about Europe, Asia and South America 2 and so on. 3 810 So we don't feel that the current 4 programs are not meeting our needs. They are meeting 5 our essential needs, but we look at enhancing and 6 enriching and growth into the millennium. 7 811 Given the democratic changes that 8 have taken place in Canada, how can the needs and 9 interests of ethnocultural communities be served? 10 812 Well, we feel that current 11 demographics indicate growing diversity of Canadian 12 population. As my predecessor said, it is not 13 reflected very often in the media. 14 813 We should think about being part of 15 the global village and we need to report community 16 events, not only mainstream events. 17 814 The changing needs of ethnocultural 18 audiences need to be researched. I think there should 19 be some survey of ethnic communities from the 20 perspective of their changing needs, interests and 21 concerns, especially the new immigrants coming in. 22 There might be some gap between the various age groups, 23 geographical areas, different interests. 24 815 Better use of available technology is 25 very important here and computer literacy. I must say StenoTran 198 1 that very often because of financial limitations we are 2 not so -- access is not adequate enough because we are 3 sort of disadvantaged in being able to use the 4 available and existing technology. So, we are talking 5 about cyperspace and using Internet and not everybody 6 has access to it. So, this is a key issue: How can we 7 participate fully in the information highway and 8 ethnocultural stations need access to the resources to 9 do that. 10 816 The third question: Should there be 11 a priority on the development of Canadian ethnocultural 12 services rather than importing foreign services? Yes, 13 I say there should be a priority for Canadian 14 production. 15 817 The development of Canadian 16 ethnocultural services programs that are important to 17 our community, it is very important. Although there 18 should be a balance in importing foreign services, I 19 agree with the current regulations which produce such a 20 balance. I think we have already a good mix of how 21 much we can have foreign content and how much Canadian, 22 but there should be some focus on documentary programs, 23 dramas, all kinds of productions which reflect ethnic 24 groups in Canada and would show their contribution to 25 Canadian culture. StenoTran 199 1 818 These programs could be exported. I 2 mean we could be visible on the international scene if 3 we export our own programs outside. 4 819 We also feel that there is more 5 knowledge and understanding of our contribution of each 6 ethnic group, so there should be some communication and 7 some sharing and exchanging, so we are not isolated in 8 separate ghettos. I think this theme of better 9 understanding dialogue and understanding of our 10 traditions and contributions to Canadian history, 11 political, social and cultural life is very important. 12 820 Also, we need to think about our next 13 generation of young Canadians who need to be proud of 14 their ancestry and be aware of their place in Canadian 15 history. For them it's a sense of preservation of 16 their identity. They need to know that they are 17 neither French nor English, that they belong to other 18 language groups and they should be as proud of their 19 origin. 20 821 I think by portraying the subject, 21 the themes, the historical programs or programs that 22 talk about their heritage will improve their sense of 23 self-identity. So, here the media will play an 24 educational role. 25 822 Sometimes programs could be broadcast StenoTran 200 1 in English or French, as long as they also talk about 2 ethnic groups. So, it's another area to look at in 3 terms of content. 4 823 International affairs -- I think we 5 do need a little bit more information about what is 6 happening in other countries, Europe, Asia and Africa, 7 South America. I think there would be an interest in 8 audiences to listen to those events. Just to give you 9 an example, the current events in Central Europe, 10 Poland is becoming part of NATO and, of course, this is 11 starting some interest. People want to know more about 12 what is happening within the European Union. So these 13 events are of interest to our audiences. 14 824 Of course, the ethnocultural stations 15 are well equipped because of the knowledge of the 16 language to transfer that information. 17 825 I will present a more detailed brief 18 later on. I am just trying to cover the main points. 19 826 Thank you. 20 827 THE CHAIRPERSON: Ms Bogorya, I want 21 to explore one area and that is actually an area that a 22 number of presenters have raised today. As you know, 23 the CRTC is involved in a process looking at the whole 24 issue of new media and a number of the people who came 25 before us to make presentations talked about the StenoTran 201 1 ability of the Internet to supply programming, I guess 2 at the point at which television and the Internet 3 converge. The ability of the Internet to supply 4 programming for ethnocultural groups who are not 5 currently being served by the traditional distribution 6 system. 7 828 I am wondering if that has anything 8 to do with the fact that you mentioned it or what 9 aspect of the Internet are you exploring in your work 10 on this issue? 11 829 MS BOGORYA: We may have some 12 generation gap here. Of course, younger persons are 13 more perhaps well versed in the Internet than the older 14 generation. But apart from that, as I said the 15 financial issue of accessibility to ethnocultural 16 groups would be a problem. I think you may lose some 17 contact that you already have through ethnocultural 18 stations. 19 830 I don't think the Internet would -- 20 eventually in the future it is possible, but I don't 21 think we are there as of yet. 22 831 THE CHAIRPERSON: Generally, the TV 23 image is quite small, so it's pretty hard to sit in 24 front of your computer monitor and watch a program. 25 832 MS BOGORYA: It will happen. StenoTran 202 1 833 THE CHAIRPERSON: But I mean with 2 web-TV, the evolution of web-TV, it has been suggested 3 to us that that is one of the ways of sort of freeing 4 up the logjam of capacity issues in terms of delivering 5 more niche programming services to the ethnocultural 6 communities. 7 834 MS BOGORYA: What is more important 8 is this is another media, but what is more important is 9 that you do portray ethnocultural groups in these 10 programs, that you have more input, that we have more 11 voice. I think this is a more important issue than how 12 we are communicating -- I mean through what channel. 13 835 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much 14 for your contribution this afternoon. 15 836 We are going to take a break now. We 16 are running about a half an hour late. We will be 17 returning at 7 p.m. and will continue on with our list 18 of participants at that point. 19 837 Thank you. 20 --- Short recess at 1830 / Courte suspension à 1830 21 --- Upon resuming at 1900 / Reprise à 1900 22 838 THE CHAIRPERSON: Ladies and 23 gentlemen, I would ask you to take your seats. 24 839 I would like to remind any 25 participants who are going to be presenting tonight StenoTran 203 1 that we are endeavouring to keep to about 10 minutes 2 for the oral presentation, so that if we do want to ask 3 questions there is time without us having to stay here 4 until 1:00 in the morning. So, anything you can do to 5 be succinct would be very much appreciated. 6 840 Madam Secretary, please call the 7 first participant. 8 841 MS RHÉAUME: The next participant is 9 Mr. Michael Caine of CJMR Radio. 10 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 11 842 MR. CAINE: Thank you very much. I 12 am going to talk about something completely different. 13 Radio, and ethnic broadcasting radio. 14 843 I am the President of CJMR 1320 Radio 15 Limited, a full ethnic station licensed at Mississauga, 16 ontario. With me is harry McDonald, CJMR's 17 Vice-President of Sales and Marketing. 18 844 Throughout your public consultations 19 I am sure you will hear a lot about heritage. Well, 20 CJMR's heritage is that its parent company, CHWO Radio 21 Limited, was one of the first broadcast stations in 22 Canada, radio or TV, to recognize the need for ethnic 23 programming when, in 1957 it began broadcasting a 24 significant and regular schedule of third-language 25 services. In 1993, we consolidated the format of our StenoTran 204 1 two stations by transferring all of CHWO's ethnic 2 programming to CJMR, thus making it a full ethnic 3 station. 4 845 Because of our extensive experience 5 in ethnic broadcasting,both Mr. McDonald and I were 6 heavily involved in the consultation, development and 7 evolution of the CRTC policy reflecting Canada's 8 linguistic and cultural diversity that was released in 9 1985 -- although at the time, Mr. McDonald was 10 Vice-President of Channel 47, CFMT-TV. 11 846 We are pleased to say that this 12 policy was well conceived, thorough and visionary. It 13 has served the industry, Canada's multicultural 14 communities and the country as a whole extremely well. 15 In fact, it is our position that today, almost 15 years 16 after its introduction, this policy does not need to be 17 changed a great deal in order for it to remain relevant 18 and effective. 19 847 The call for comments to review this 20 policy was also thorough. We will be submitting a 21 complete, written submission in a month's time, but 22 today, because of time constraints, we will focus on 23 what we feel are some of the more important issues 24 raised in your call. 25 848 The first item we would like to StenoTran 205 1 address is the types of ethnic programming. We think 2 that the policy could be streamlined considerably and 3 made to be more effectively relevant if the 4 identification of types of ethnic programming were to 5 be eliminated all together or, at least, reduced 6 considerably. 7 849 We have come to accept that any 8 program that is directed at a specific and distinct 9 community whose cultural and/or linguistic heritage is 10 other than English, French or native Canadian is indeed 11 an ethnic program. it is really irrelevant what 12 language is spoken in the program. 13 850 In fact, with five different choices 14 of types of ethnic programming, things can fall between 15 the cracks. For example, under the current policy, 16 broadcasters can, and we and the Commission are aware 17 of instances where they have, air programs in English 18 that are directed at a specific ethnic community but 19 claim it as Type E programming, instead of B or, 20 perhaps, C. Since the Type E designation does not 21 restrict the conventional broadcaster to the 15 per 22 cent limit, he or she can go about soliciting listeners 23 and advertising from that targeted ethnic community 24 unchecked and unfettered, to the potential detriment of 25 an existing ethnic broadcaster. StenoTran 206 1 851 A clear, simple and streamlined 2 definition of what is ethnic programming ought to be 3 established. In other words, its a program principally 4 directed at a distinct ethnocultural group or it is 5 not. 6 852 The next area that we would like to 7 address is the availability, accessability and 8 diversity of ethnic service. 9 853 We feel that the current policy 10 balances pretty well the academic desire to encourage 11 programming services to as many different and distinct 12 cultural groups as possible with the reality of 13 restrictions due to the availability of time and the 14 financial and market conditions required to support 15 individual ethnic programs. 16 854 In the Greater Toronto Area, the 17 nation's most culturally diverse centre, there are six 18 ethnic radio stations, one ethnic television station, 19 three ethnic specialty TV services, two non-ethnic 20 television stations carrying ethnic programming, eight 21 ethnic SCMO services, two closed circuit ethnic radio 22 services on cable, two campus radio stations carrying 23 ethnic programming and at least five ethnic services on 24 the list of Part II eligible satellite services. 25 855 Our guess would be that there are StenoTran 207 1 very few ethnic communities within the GTA that are not 2 being served by the ethnic broadcast media at the 3 present time. 4 856 And, by and large, we suspect that 5 the amount and variety of ethnic broadcast services in 6 other centre across Canada is proportionate, 7 appropriate and commensurate to each community's 8 linguistic and cultural diversity. Such is the natural 9 balance of things in a free and market-driven system. 10 857 At the same time, through the public 11 application process that looks at the issues on a 12 case-by-case basis and the Commission's regulatory 13 control by way of conditions of licence, the playing 14 field is kept relatively level, protecting the 15 viability of existing ethnic licensees. 16 858 Thus, we feel that the ways and means 17 of providing ethnic broadcast services as governed by 18 the existing policy need not be changed and the 19 existing distinctions still work well, that is: 20 859 One, mainstream stations can 21 broadcast up to 15 per cent ethnic programming without 22 CRTC approval; 23 860 Two, stations wishing to do between 24 15 per cent and 40 per cent ethnic must publicly apply 25 to the Commission to do so and a favourable decision StenoTran 208 1 might include specific conditions of licence; 2 861 And, three, stations wishing to 3 achieve full ethnic status, i.e. not less than 60 per 4 cent ethnic programming, must also publicly apply to 5 the Commission and, again, a favourable decision would 6 be subject to specific conditions of licence. 7 862 In this regard, we concur that the 8 lack of available radio frequencies at least, precludes 9 the establishment of a single ethnic language service. 10 We think, therefore, that the Commission ought to 11 continue to impose a condition of licence that a 12 minimum number of distinct and different ethnocultural 13 communities be served with that number determined on a 14 case-by-case basis. Otherwise, the practice that has 15 come to be known as "cream skimming" of the larger, 16 more lucrative ethnic markets becomes a detrimental 17 factor. 18 863 We do not agree, however, with the 19 suggestion that larger ethnocultural groups be used to 20 subsidize the delivery of less profitable programming 21 to smaller groups. To include such an imposition in an 22 ethnic broadcasting policy is unrealistic and 23 unreasonable. 24 864 As the Commission is aware, CJMR 25 operates primarily on the brokerage system. Prior to StenoTran 209 1 1985, we fought long and hard against the stigmas that 2 had been erroneously associated with brokerage and we 3 are pleased that the current policy not only recognizes 4 this method of providing ethnic broadcasting services 5 as bona fide, but actually credits it with stimulating 6 the development of the Canadian production of ethnic 7 programs which might not otherwise have been produced. 8 865 Commercially licensed broadcast 9 stations are businesses. Whether you are a 10 conventional station or an ethnic licensee, if that 11 segment of the audience that you wish to reach, be it 12 in a single program or in your overall format, does not 13 support your efforts in either listenership or, more 14 importantly, revenue, then you have failed in a 15 fundamental requirement of staying in business -- make 16 a profit. I suggest that if it is deemed to be 17 worthwhile, let the government subsidize unprofitable 18 programming to smaller groups through grants or by 19 requiring cable's community channel to carry such 20 programming on a non-commercial basis, which is what I 21 thought they were supposed to be doing in the first 22 place. 23 866 Someone once described our ethnic 24 markets as moving targets. It's true: Changing 25 immigration patterns, linguistic and cultural StenoTran 210 1 assimilation, shifts in socio-economic trends, 2 political initiatives -- these and more require today's 3 ethnic broadcaster to be even more flexible than ever 4 before and offer a schedule of programming that not 5 only responds to the demands of the ethnic 6 market-place, but is also profitable. 7 867 At CJMR, we are pleased to be able to 8 offer available time to any independent ethnic program 9 producer who comes forward with a desire to inform and 10 entertain a particular ethnic community within our 11 coverage area. Just as potential commercial licensees, 12 however, are asked to convince the Commission that 13 their proposal is financially viable, all we ask is 14 that the program become self-sustaining. 15 868 Finally, a word or two about Canadian 16 content. In the Commission's call for comments, it is 17 correctly stated that ethnic radio stations face a 18 considerable challenge in obtaining recordings that 19 qualify as Canadian suitable for ethnic programs and 20 that limited resources curtail an individual ethnic 21 licensee from being able to deliver Canadian talent 22 that reflects all of the significant ethnocultural 23 groups in its service area. 24 869 Unfortunately, we are unable at this 25 time to give you any quantifiable data that could help StenoTran 211 1 in determining whether or not an increase from 7 per 2 cent Cancon to , say 10 per cent or 12 per cent is 3 warranted or achievable. Our considerable experience 4 gives us a gut feeling that an increase at this time 5 would, in fact, prove to be very difficult. 6 870 A big part of the problem is, of 7 course, not knowing what material is available. That 8 is why we are very interested in exploring the proposal 9 that a pooling of resources, coupled with external 10 support -- financial and otherwise -- could be a very 11 positive step forward in increasing by a meaningful 12 degree the supply of Canadian ethnic music. The 13 development of a national Canadian ethnic music 14 database, as suggested in the call for comments, would 15 be an extremely useful tool for ethnic programmers to 16 use in satisfying any Cancon requirement. 17 871 Here's one possible suggestion: 18 Change the qualifying criteria for ethnic Canadian 19 content from two out of four in the MAPL system to only 20 one out of four. A lot of Canadian ethnic performers, 21 for example, record songs in other countries that were 22 not written or composed by a Canadian. Hence, the 23 recording doesn't qualify as Cancon. Some relaxation 24 of the criteria might help ethnic stations to increase 25 their Cancon quotas. We might even be able to play StenoTran 212 1 Celine Dion for once and count her as Canadian. 2 872 We feel, then, that it would be 3 premature to increase the Canadian content level for 4 ethnic stations at this time. Instead, a comprehensive 5 investigation should be done to determine just how much 6 Canadian ethnic material is currently available; 7 develop an evolving database that all ethnic 8 programmers could use; and then determine what increase 9 in Cancon can be accomplished and how it ought to be 10 phased in. 11 873 Ladies and gentlemen, I think I have 12 run out of time, so that concludes our remarks. 13 874 Thank you for allowing us to 14 participate in this public consultation and we would be 15 happy to answer any questions you may have. 16 875 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for 17 sharing your information and point of view with us, Mr. 18 Caine. Commissioner Langford has a question for you. 19 876 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Just one 20 question because I have been dying to hear a little 21 more about radio. We have heard a lot about 22 television. It has been very interesting. 23 877 One or two of the presenters this 24 evening spoke about a role for the CBC in television 25 and changing its role and perhaps making different StenoTran 213 1 roles nationally and locally. Do you have any thoughts 2 on what the CBC's role should be, either nationally or 3 locally, in radio from an ethnic or third-language 4 perspective? 5 878 MR. CAINE: Far be it for me to 6 program our national broadcaster, but let me try. 7 879 THE CHAIRPERSON: Everyone likes to 8 try. 9 880 MR. CAINE: I do believe that the CBC 10 has a role that it has not accepted completely yet to 11 reflect Canada's cultural mosaic in terms of its 12 programming in not only third languages, but in English 13 to communities that are not English, French or native 14 Canadian. 15 881 I am not sure that they have indeed 16 reflected totally our nation. You spoke earlier, you 17 were talking about television, Commissioner, in answer 18 to another question, about how does the CBC television 19 make its programming decisions when it has got 20 something in Yellowknife and it has this large and 21 diverse country to program to. 22 882 But Yellowknife compared to the 23 ethnic communities of Canada is a spit in the ocean. 24 If the CBC feels that it must give prominence to its 25 viewers or listeners in Yellowknife, nothing against StenoTran 214 1 Yellowknife of course, at the exclusion, however, of 2 our ethnic communities, I don't think that's a real 3 true picture of Canada. With 50 per cent of our 4 population not English, French or native, then I think 5 they are missing the boat by not reflecting that 6 diverse community of our country. 7 883 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thanks very 8 much. 9 884 MS RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is Ms 10 Rose Sottile of the Italian Canadians, Toronto 11 District. 12 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 13 885 MS SOTTILE: Good evening. My name 14 is Rose Sottile and I am a member of the National 15 Congress of Italian Canadians, Toronto District's Board 16 of Directors, and it gives me great pleasure to share 17 our views on the future of the CRTC's ethnic 18 programming policy. 19 886 Emilio Bisceglia, the Congress' 20 President who prepared the brief, sends his regrets for 21 not being able to attend these hearings himself. 22 887 Founded in 1960, the National 23 Congress of Italian Canadians, Toronto District, is an 24 umbrella organization that represents approximately 25 one-half million Canadians of Italian heritage who StenoTran 215 1 reside in the Greater Metropolitan Toronto area. For 2 four decades the National Congress of Italian 3 Canadians, Toronto District, has successfully lobbied 4 to preserve and promote the goals and aspirations of 5 Canadians of Italian heritage in the areas of social, 6 cultural, education and political interests. This 7 submission is part and parcel of the work that we 8 undertake. 9 888 We advance that underlying the CRTC's 10 ethnic broadcasting policy is a belief that ethnic 11 radio and television undertakings should inform, 12 educate and entertain Canadians. If we believe that 13 cultural and linguistic diversity are integral parts of 14 Canada and fundamental characteristics of our society, 15 then we must ensure that diversity is recognized and 16 celebrated on our airwaves. 17 889 This policy renewal discussion will 18 help ensure that the broadcasting environment can 19 continue to meet these needs in today's changing world 20 and we congratulate the Commission for undertaking this 21 initiative. 22 890 Among the issues that these hearings 23 will probe is the extent to which the present 24 broadcasting system serves Canada's ethnocultural 25 communities. While we recognize that the current StenoTran 216 1 policy environment and the commitment of broadcasters 2 have allowed a resilient ethnocultural broadcasting 3 system to evolve, we believe that there is room for 4 significant improvement and efforts must be made to 5 ensure that the current system is not allowed to 6 deteriorate. 7 891 Today, in the Greater Metropolitan 8 Toronto Area, there are six radio stations, two closed 9 circuit audio services, one ethnic television station 10 and three ethnic specialty channels which broadcast 11 ethnocultural programming. Canadians of Italian 12 heritage have access to two television stations, CFMT 13 and Telelatino, which broadcast some programming in 14 their native language. 15 892 In spite of the successes in the past 16 years, we have witnessed a deterioration of the system. 17 The amount of hours of daily programming in the Italian 18 language have decreased on CFMT. This has occurred 19 under the purported pretext of increasing daily 20 broadcasting in other ethnic languages. 21 893 However, at the same time, we have 22 noticed that CFMT is aggressively promoting an 23 extensive English-language schedule. English-language 24 programming no doubt results in a substantial profit 25 for CFMT. However, it does not appear that these StenoTran 217 1 monies are being reinvested in the development and 2 enhancement of Italian-language programming. 3 894 While the station's ability to make a 4 profit must be preserved, there must also be some sort 5 of refinement to the current policy of ethnic 6 programming to ensure that local programming is in fact 7 developed. We cannot allow our multicultural stations 8 to become the whole distributors of English-language 9 programming, while the question of reinvestment is 10 ignored. 11 895 In the spirit of its licence and in 12 the interest of ethnocultural communities, we must 13 develop more ethnic-language programming, not less, to 14 showcase and promote issues that are relevant to ethnic 15 communities that these stations are mandated to serve. 16 896 Further refinement and reinforcement 17 of the current policy must occur in order to ensure 18 that the profits generated from these ethnic television 19 stations can be reinvested for the betterment of 20 programming needs and the development of more homegrown 21 programs. 22 897 The second item that we were asked to 23 consider dealt with demographic shifts in Canada's 24 population. A large portion of today's 25 Canadian-Italian community whose primary language is StenoTran 218 1 Italian are now retiring. At this time, more than 2 ever, we believe that an increased effort must be made 3 by broadcasters to reach these Canadians of Italian 4 heritage. 5 898 Another submission to these hearings 6 advances that perhaps in the Greater Metropolitan 7 Toronto area advertising dollars could be used to 8 support the establishment of a cable community 9 television channel to specifically serve Canadians of 10 Italian heritage. This is a suggestion which must be 11 given serious consideration, given the reduction in 12 broadcast hours in Italian at CFMT and the significant 13 population that speaks Italian as a first language in 14 the Greater Metropolitan Toronto area. 15 899 Over the past year a transformation 16 has occurred at Telelatino with respect to its range of 17 programming. In part, it has changed its focus to 18 target younger Italian Canadians. It is our view that 19 these programming changes have had a detrimental impact 20 in terms of the quality and, in fact, the quantity of 21 programming available to Telelatino viewers. This has 22 been compounded by the reduction of Italian language 23 broadcast hours at CFMT, which has resulted in more and 24 more Canadians of Italian heritage looking to 25 Telelatino to be their primary source of StenoTran 219 1 Italian-language programming. 2 900 There is, however, a practical 3 limitation in this change. As we understand it, 4 Telelatino's current licence restricts it from 5 providing any news programs. This licence condition 6 for Telelatino works to the detriment of the community. 7 CFMT is left without any competition with respect to 8 providing news service in the Italian language. We 9 fully believe in a free market economy and in 10 competition and that the removal of this restriction 11 will result in better broadcasting in the marketplace. 12 Given the large numbers of Canadians of Italian 13 heritage in this area, we believe that this licence 14 condition for Telelatino should be removed if it is 15 requested. 16 901 In order to address the needs and 17 interests of the Italian-Canadian community, we believe 18 that there should be a policy enacted to ensure that 19 there is a greater number of Italian language broadcast 20 hours on a daily basis and that such broadcast hours 21 should be developed locally. 22 902 The third item for consideration was 23 whether there should be a priority on the development 24 of Canadian ethnic services rather than the importation 25 of foreign programming. There have been some StenoTran 220 1 submissions that suggest in a free market economy the 2 CRTC's policies should be liberalized in order to allow 3 major Italian networks to broadcast into Canada. 4 Respectfully, we disagree with this assertion. 5 903 Further, we believe that the current 6 Canadian content conditions for the multicultural 7 television stations are also counterproductive. It is 8 our understanding that as a general requirement ethnic 9 broadcasters' licences require less Canadian content 10 programming than conventional broadcasters. We 11 understand that it is 40 per cent compared to 50 per 12 cent between 6 p.m. and midnight. 13 904 We submit that this requirement has 14 had the adverse effect of less programming in the 15 Italian language during prime-time hours. We believe 16 that where the market is able to sustain it, and we 17 believe that in the Greater Metropolitan Toronto area 18 such an initiative can be sustained, that CFMT and 19 other similar stations should be forced to meet the 20 Canadian content requirement required by mainstream 21 commercial broadcasters. 22 905 We believe that this change alone can 23 result in further community and ethnic language based 24 programming which in turn would help achieve the goals, 25 aims and aspirations of the ethnic broadcasting policy. StenoTran 221 1 906 On the question of transmission of 2 foreign services, while valuable, the retransmission of 3 foreign services from ethnic homelands does not serve 4 the needs and goals of the ethnic broadcasting policy. 5 907 For example, while foreign services 6 will no doubt deal with foreign policy, racial and 7 other dealings and provide a connection to one's 8 homeland, they will not serve the needs, interests, 9 aspirations and circumstances that Canadians of Italian 10 heritage specifically face in Toronto. 11 908 The only way to ensure this, of 12 course, is to force the broadcasters to promote and 13 develop Canadian product and enforce higher Canadian 14 content requirements. Indirectly, this change can 15 ensure that profits are rerouted back into Canada and 16 Canadian broadcasting operations and the development 17 and promotion of local Canadian news, information and 18 talent. 19 909 We believe that the Italian community 20 in Toronto has been forced to have a greater dependency 21 on foreign services because the local broadcasters have 22 failed to develop adequate local programs and there is 23 no policy impetus for them to pursue such endeavours. 24 910 In summary and in a different vein, 25 we believe that as we become more and more involved in StenoTran 222 1 a global society there are needs and opportunities that 2 will be missed by only an ethnic approach to 3 broadcasting. We are of the opinion that there is a 4 distinction that has been made between ethnic and 5 multicultural programming, a distinction which we 6 support. Notwithstanding our support for the ethnic 7 broadcasting policy which has been outlined throughout 8 the submission, there is a need for a multicultural 9 service that ensures Canadians of all heritage have 10 access to the views, positions, situations, culture and 11 entertainment of the peoples of the world. Canada must 12 take advantage of its multicultural heritage by 13 enabling all Canadians to have views of the world that 14 are broader and more direct than that provided by a few 15 international services available to them at this time. 16 911 Ethnic and multicultural broadcasting 17 are not one and the same thing, although each can be 18 supportive of the other. Multicultural broadcasting, 19 and in particular television, can be the catalyst that 20 opens up opportunities around the globe, provides 21 bridges of understanding between the diversity of the 22 peoples of the world and which can overcome narrowness 23 of understanding and perspective among Canadians and 24 their perspectives on the world. 25 912 Language need no longer be a barrier StenoTran 223 1 as quality subtitling is now available which opens the 2 cultures of the world to all. Ethnic broadcasting is 3 specific and exclusive, while multiculturalism is 4 inclusive and both should be incorporated in the 5 Canadian broadcasting system. 6 913 Thank you. 7 914 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 8 much. 9 915 MS RHÉAUME: The next presentation is 10 by Mr. David Palmer of the Cultural News Agency. 11 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 12 916 MR. PALMER: (Interpretation) I 13 thank you very much. I shall speak in Spanish and be 14 translated. 15 917 The Spanish-speaking community of 16 Toronto welcomes these public consultations and wishes 17 to address the federal government represented at the 18 CRTC about the duties and rights that bind and impel us 19 to participate in the consideration of what is ours, 20 the Hertzian waves of this country, to which we 21 contribute with our efforts, taxes and suffering, as 22 well as with the best of our qualities, dreams and 23 capabilities. 24 918 The very scarce multiethnic means of 25 communication have become a fortress of personal StenoTran 224 1 preferences and politics and have ruined the art of 2 communications conceived as information, entertainment 3 and culture. 4 919 Acknowledging the importance of all 5 the spaces we already have, we have also to recognize 6 the poorness of content due to the lack of democracy in 7 the policies that define minority participation. 8 920 It gets to the extreme abberation of 9 denying the right of minority programs to look for 10 sponsorships in the so-called national market, meaning 11 by this that large corporations and/or government 12 agencies who decide to grant a contract to the 13 multi-ethnic media in accordance to strategic 14 importance to the Canadian equation of housing 15 composition. 16 921 At the other end of these interests, 17 there is an eager mass searching for their own 18 identity. I do not want to be turned into a group of 19 loud followers of salsa, meringue or cauyunte 20 yadoes (ph) soap operas, even though of course there 21 should be room for all of this in this marvellous 22 concert of diversity that we have learned to love so 23 much of Canadian culture. 24 922 Unfortunately, cultural themes are 25 launched with total disrespect for their existence to StenoTran 225 1 small corners, very difficult to find, thus diluting 2 the possibility of generating a larger audience craving 3 for the knowledge. 4 923 We are told we are a mouse market, by 5 this meaning ridiculously small and are denied 6 primetime broadcasting where we could possibly 7 demonstrate the large potential of consumption of 8 Hispanics and Portuguese and other similar ethnic 9 groups -- groups that relate not only from a linguistic 10 point of view, but who share the enjoyment and taste 11 for other constructive and real of our own diversified 12 cultures made up of more than 20 nationalities, with 13 different mores, different climates, different 14 countries with enormous physical and cultural riches to 15 contribute. 16 924 We are talking about the bonds of 17 similarity and commitment that bind together from 18 Mexico to the very southern part of our continent 19 several millions more of human beings who share similar 20 cultures, very closely akin and related to Europeans 21 and parts of Asia. 22 925 Making the means of communication 23 more democratic, even if we keep its archaic structure 24 as far as possession through private concessions or 25 commercially organized people goes, there is still the StenoTran 226 1 outcry to benefit before anything else the minority 2 events. All the First Nations of Canada, of course, 3 are included, or at least to guarantee their own spaces 4 to identify and set their own courses in a united 5 manner, contribution to potential licks (ph) of Canada 6 to history and to the fate of a very important part of 7 this planet from a preferential side or place, which is 8 for us this political and economical stability of the 9 land we inhabit. 10 926 It is worth mentioning the amount of 11 abuse, discrimination and manipulation that is 12 characteristic of many pretence participation in all 13 means of communications. It is worth mentioning that 14 except in very few cases, even at certain stations 15 where same and some time has been assigned to the 16 Spanish language, all Hispanic minorities are treated 17 as third class and are not granted any potential growth 18 in their relationships of respect and preference given 19 to a client. 20 927 It is worth mentioning -- our 21 businesses, at the same time, suffer the impact of the 22 lack of specialized fixed and permanent means available 23 band and times during which our realities and roots 24 could be discussed, as well as where a lively debate 25 could occur on the commitment we all have to pull for StenoTran 227 1 our inclusion into this Canadian society. 2 928 The compulsory bureaucratic lobby and 3 the paradoxical lack of resources have displaced our 4 minority to be a guest without voice, or with voices 5 that are silent or censured in a very discrete manner 6 in the same of our rhythm that becomes heartbreakingly 7 commercial and to such a degree that our roots are kept 8 away from a relishing market that only buys when the 9 quality of the information or certain parameters of 10 opinion are met. 11 929 Today we have to demand the 12 opportunity to exercise a free press with a special 13 accent, with the resources of a free market of 14 communications and above all allowing the extensive and 15 active participation of all nationalities. 16 930 A community without a strong presence 17 in the means of communications, without the right to 18 discriminate their past as well as their present and 19 future is an ethnic group without hope and 20 opportunities. It is a community that has been 21 distanced and cut off of all possibilities with no 22 alternative or economic, political and cultural 23 development. 24 931 From ancient times, all messages and 25 communication networks have played a crucial role in StenoTran 228 1 the life of all nations. The marginalization of any 2 ethnic group residing in Canada, whether overt or 3 hidden, will go against the guiding principles of 4 multiculturalism living together. 5 932 The promotion and support of cultural 6 diversity with private enterprise assistance is one 7 element that should not be ignored, if properly 8 co-ordinated, as an answer to the needs of every 9 community. 10 933 It is only natural that the support 11 of government at all levels should be another assurance 12 to guarantee democratic links free from undue pressures 13 and giving us the pleasure and enjoyment of not feeling 14 under attack. 15 934 After several months of work with 16 different sectors of our Latin community in Toronto, I 17 would like to address some of the questions people 18 often ask themselves regarding the role of 19 communications in their development of minorities. 20 935 First, why is it that taxes to 21 licensing is not more democratic in order to give 22 access to communities who express their opinions, and 23 not only given to businessmen to whom these licences 24 are only a means to carry on a lucrative business and 25 who live far away and removed from the reality and StenoTran 229 1 suffering of those minorities which are the raison 2 d'etre of the licences? 3 936 Two, is it the serves or a monopoly? 4 What is the true meaning of a licence? Why are these 5 means far away removed from the reach of average 6 people? Why does a community feel threatened instead 7 of served? Why do they have to shut up and not be free 8 to express themselves freely in a free country? 9 937 Three, which are the procedures 10 followed by the CRTC to control and verify that 11 licences are really given for the service of minorities 12 and truly comply with all requirements demanded by the 13 Commission? 14 938 Fourth, why do companies who enjoy 15 the benefit of the frequencies do not have executives 16 and stockholders of the same nationality of the 17 communities they are supposed to represent? 18 939 Five, the Spanish-speaking community 19 in Canada is the ethnic group which is growing more 20 rapidly in this country. Statistics show that with the 21 signing of NAFTA between Canada, Mexico and the U.S. 22 and which is supposed to cover the whole continent in 23 the next 10 years, the role that Spanish plays in this 24 continent will become more prominent and so will be the 25 compelling need to share geographic spaces and new StenoTran 230 1 challenges for the integration to this next millennium. 2 940 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Gonzales, (sic) 3 I am really sorry to interrupt you, but you have been 4 going for 20 minutes now with the interpretation and I 5 am just wondering if you could try and wrap up your 6 comments. You can always file anything else you have 7 to say in writing. It's just we have a big long list 8 of people to go through. 9 941 MR PALMER: (Interpretation) Yes, 10 that's fine. Thank you very much. 11 942 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much 12 for your contribution. 13 943 MS RHÉAUME: The next speaker is mr. 14 Aldo di Felice, President of TLN Television. 15 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 16 944 MR. DI FELICE: Good evening. My 17 name is Aldo di Felice and I am President of Telelatino 18 Network Inc. 19 945 As Canada's national Italian and 20 Hispanic specialty television network since 1984, the 21 TLN Television Network provides 24 hours per day, seven 22 days per week of news, information, sports, drama, 23 children's shows and general entertainment programming 24 to Italian and Spanish-speaking audiences. 25 946 Telelatino is proud to have been a StenoTran 231 1 participant in the growth and development of Canadian 2 ethnic programming and we are also pleased to 3 participate in these public consultations. We are 4 proud to see sitting around this table this evening two 5 independent producers who produce programs enjoyed by 6 our Spanish-speaking audiences. I am also very pleased 7 to have sitting beside me Ms Claudia Caranci who 8 yesterday celebrated not only the launch of her 9 national Hispanic morning show, Buenas Dias Canada, but 10 also the eleventh anniversary of her joining TLN. I 11 think Claudia would want me to add that she started 12 working at a very young age. 13 947 THE CHAIRPERSON: Didn't we all. 14 948 MR. DI FELICE: Today, given the 15 amount of time available, I will focus my comments 16 primarily on the issue of the role of foreign services, 17 an issue which we consider to be critical to the 18 Commission's review of Canada's ethnic broadcasting 19 policy. 20 949 It is our respectful submission that 21 the treatment of this issue by the Commission will 22 profoundly impact Canada's ethnic broadcasters, 23 particularly ethnic specialty channels like ours. 24 950 Time permitting, I will also address 25 what we consider to be a related issue, that being the StenoTran 232 1 need to encourage and facilitate the production of 2 Canadian content programs by and for ethnic 3 broadcasters. 4 951 Regarding the role of foreign 5 services, Telelatino's ability to successfully continue 6 serving the needs and interests of its audiences 7 depends on the Commission's future approach to 8 non-Canadian ethnic services which may seek admission 9 into Canada. 10 952 The Commission's Public notice in 11 this matter refers to the technological changes that 12 have provided and will provide increased channel 13 capacity through digitization. Expanded capacity makes 14 possible the entry of more foreign third language 15 services via DTH, digital cable or otherwise. 16 953 But the CRTC has had a policy of not 17 authorizing the carriage in Canada or foreign services 18 that are competitive with a Canadian licensed pay or 19 specialty service. This policy must be maintained. 20 954 In Telelatino's case, the possible 21 entry into Canada of foreign Spanish or Italian 22 language services would have immediate and devastating 23 effects. First, already small audiences would be 24 split. Canadian ethnic services already serve 25 relatively small niche audiences and in some cases StenoTran 233 1 ethnic specialties already compete with over the air 2 multicultural broadcasters and mainstream broadcasters 3 doing ethnic programming too. 4 955 The niche ethnic audiences that are 5 already served by multiple Canadian broadcasters on 6 local, regional and national levels would be further 7 split by the introduction of non-Canadian ethnic 8 services. 9 956 If splitting niche audiences merely 10 meant that more public choice was available from a 11 wider selection of services, that would be fine. But 12 in the case of Canadian ethnic specialty channels like 13 Telelatino, audience splitting caused by the entry of 14 competitive foreign services would threaten the very 15 viability of the Canadian service. 16 957 This is especially true for a dual 17 ethnic broadcaster like us Telelatino increasingly 18 relies on the pooled advertising revenues of two 19 Canadian distinct ethnocultural groups in order to 20 support the operations of one, a single programming 21 service. 22 958 Audience fragmentation caused by the 23 entry of foreign services would seriously harm us in 24 two ways. 25 959 First, advertising rates must reduce StenoTran 234 1 with any actual or perceived dilution of our audiences. 2 960 Secondly, foreign services carry 3 multinational advertising and as a result, cannibalize 4 local Canadian advertising of products and services 5 already advertised internationally on the foreign 6 signal. 7 961 Thus, foreign services deprive 8 Canadian ethnic services of both viewership and 9 advertising revenues, thereby reducing the Canadian 10 service's ability to sustain themselves and contribute 11 to Canadian programming. 12 962 And all without any obligation on the 13 foreign services to make the kinds of contributions to 14 Canadian broadcasting that Canadian ethnic services do. 15 963 Non-Canadian services by their nature 16 do not address the particular wants and needs of a 17 Canadian ethnic audience and do not contribute to the 18 Canadian broadcasting system in the same ways. Allow 19 me to briefly count these ways. 20 964 First, foreign services do not 21 produce and broadcast Canadian programs. 22 965 Second, foreign services do not 23 select programs and do not schedule them with a view to 24 Canadian audiences. 25 966 Third, foreign services ignore local StenoTran 235 1 Canadian clubs, activities, institutions, leaders, 2 personalities, news and events. 3 967 Fourth, foreign services do nothing 4 to acclimatize and introduce recent Canadian immigrants 5 to the norms, practices, services, opportunities, laws 6 and social climate of Canada. 7 968 Fifth, foreign services lack the 8 local Canadian advertising content of Canadian ethnic 9 services. Ethnic audiences rely on such commercials as 10 an information resource. Canadian commercials aren't 11 just advertising tools; they often serve as a community 12 guide to the availability of goods and services. 13 969 And sixth, foreign services have no 14 local community involvement and no commitments. They 15 do not organize, sponsor or promote community festivals 16 or events. They don't even broadcast public service 17 announcements of the local Canadian ethnic communities. 18 970 These facts remain, whether or not 19 technological advances increase channel capacity. 20 Increased channel capacity makes carriage of foreign 21 services physically possible, but it should not make it 22 automatic. On the contrary, the free entry of 23 competing foreign services would erode and destroy the 24 foundations built by Canadian ethnic broadcasters like 25 Telelatino. StenoTran 236 1 971 It is our respectful submission that 2 in Canada, the admission of competing foreign ethnic 3 services, although seemingly adding more choice, does 4 not add overall value to the Canadian ethnic 5 broadcasting system. In fact, it will destabilize the 6 viability of existing Canadian ethnic broadcasters, 7 particularly specialty channels like ours. 8 972 It is our respectful submission that 9 the prospect of increased channel capacity is an 10 opportunity that must be used to benefit the Canadian 11 broadcasting system, not to harm it. 12 973 There is a way to do this. We 13 respectfully submit that the Commission must 14 unequivocally reaffirm its policy against allowing 15 competing foreign services to enter and undermine 16 existing Canadian specialty services. 17 974 once this policy is so reaffirmed, 18 existing and future Canadian services will be able to 19 realize the opportunities that new technologies have 20 presented and bring an even greater variety of ethnic 21 programming choices to Canadians in many different 22 ways, be it program acquisitions, partnerships, joint 23 ventures or future Canadian licensed services. The 24 result will be that the opportunity presented by 25 increased channel capacity enures to the benefit of StenoTran 237 1 Canadian broadcasters and the Canadian broadcasting 2 system. Rather than benefiting foreign services at the 3 expense of Canadian services. 4 975 To repeat, the Commission must not 5 allow competing foreign ethnic services to undermine 6 the very important role served by Canadian ethnic 7 services in the Canadian broadcasting system. 8 976 With your indulgence, I would also 9 like to comment on the related topic of Canadian 10 content programming by ethnic broadcasters. 11 977 I have mentioned Canadian content 12 programs as one of the obvious benefits of Canadian 13 ethnic services over non-Canadian ethnic services. 14 Offering unique Canadian perspectives and opportunities 15 for community involvement and interaction are obvious 16 advantages that Telelatino provides its viewers. 17 978 Canadian content production must be 18 supported and nurtured in ethnic broadcasting in the 19 same way it is in mainstream Canadian broadcasting. 20 979 But there are several disadvantages 21 and barriers faced by ethnic programming services in 22 accessing the numerous federal, provincial and private 23 television production funding programs. There are 24 three main obstacles. 25 980 First, the types of programs produced StenoTran 238 1 do not qualify for funding; second, non-English, 2 non-French, non-aboriginal language programs also do 3 not generally qualify and; third, broadcaster produced 4 in-house programs generally do not qualify under most 5 programs. 6 981 Dealing with the first of these 7 barriers, the genres of programs typically produced by 8 or for ethnic broadcasters, namely talk shows, public 9 affairs shows, instructional programs, tributes, 10 interstitials, magazine shows and news, do not qualify 11 for funding under most production industry support 12 programs. 13 982 Dramas and documentaries do qualify, 14 but Canadian ethnic broadcasters generally do not have 15 the financial capacity to undertake the development and 16 the production of these usually higher budget forms of 17 programming. Doing so would mean concentrating 18 production dollars and producing fewer but hopefully 19 better hours of programming. 20 983 The problem lies in the fact that 21 ethnic broadcasters generally produce rather than 22 purchase Cancon off the shelf because little or no 23 relevant Cancon exists to be bought. As a result, 24 concentrating program dollars into documentaries and 25 drama would leave ethnic broadcasters without enough StenoTran 239 1 Canadian programs to fulfil their Cancon broadcast 2 commitments. 3 984 Even where the genre of program 4 qualifies however, third language shows are generally 5 ineligible for funding. 6 985 As a result of these barriers, ethnic 7 broadcasters are usually paying 100 cents on the 8 dollar -- 100 cents on the production dollar required 9 to produce a program, as opposed to the 10 to 20 cents 10 on the dollar, or even less sometimes, paid by other 11 Canadian broadcasters in many cases. 12 986 Coupled with the reality that ethnic 13 broadcasters are, despite reduced Cancon broadcast 14 obligations, spreading relatively few production 15 dollars over many productions, the type and quality of 16 ethnic programming has typically reflected the lower 17 production budgets involved. 18 987 Therefore, we respectfully make two 19 general recommendations in this area: 20 988 First, existing TV funding programs 21 must be encouraged to open up ethnic broadcaster 22 productions by removing the previously mentioned 23 restrictions, and; 24 989 Secondly, new ethnic program 25 production funding pools must be established. StenoTran 240 1 990 One speaker this evening mentioned 2 tax credits for corporate sponsorship of ethnic 3 programming and that strikes me as the genesis of a 4 good idea. 5 991 In closing, I would like to reiterate 6 the theme of what I am saying today. That there is a 7 clear public interest in protecting what ethnic 8 broadcasters like Telelatino have created to date. 9 992 TLN television broadcasts 24 hours 10 per day, seven days per week an incredible variety of 11 quality foreign and Canadian-produced programs. And 12 for all of this TLN receives less than $1 from the 13 average TLN subscribing household. That is $1 per 14 year. 15 993 We at Telelatino continue to pursue 16 expanding and improving our longstanding commitment to 17 the Canadian communities of Italian and Hispanic 18 origin. Telelatino is proudly Italian. Telelatino is 19 proudly Hispanic. We are also fiercely Canadian. 20 994 Thank you. 21 995 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 22 much, Mr. di Felice. 23 996 MS RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is mr. 24 Mario Bianchi, Vice-President of Laura Productions. 25 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION StenoTran 241 1 997 MR. BIANCHI: Thank you, Madam Chair. 2 998 My name is Mario Bianchi, 3 Vice-President of Laura Productions, an independent 4 producer responsible for the show "You Decide", a 5 weekly program of Telelatino Network. This come 28th 6 of February, the show will complete five years of 7 programming. 8 999 Thanks to the opportunity that 9 Telelatino gives us, the Spanish-speaking community for 10 the first time in Canadian history can participate 11 freely and directly in a live show without censorship 12 in their own language. 13 1000 The show that is produced within a 14 Canadian context deals on a weekly basis with the 15 topics and situations that affect this community and 16 its development. 17 1001 The problems that are debated by the 18 members of the panel and the public are always topics 19 of importance that deal with the daily lives of this 20 immigrant population that faces difficulties in the 21 adjustment and settlement process in their new 22 homeland. These pertinent discussions give people an 23 awareness of where to find help or how widespread their 24 own problem might be. 25 1002 We have finally in this new season StenoTran 242 1 modified the show by representing the topic of debate 2 in a theatrical form, with the aim to promote the 3 theatre in the community and its actors at the same 4 time. 5 1003 Telelatino has made a financial 6 effort to produce this show with technical elements and 7 backgrounds in accordance with the large audience that 8 watch the show. 9 1004 Therefore, I would favour that our 10 "dear" channel could be extended without hindrances to 11 all the corners of Canada, without any slight or 12 smaller communities. 13 1005 Thank you so much. 14 1006 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 15 much, Mr. Bianchi. Thank you for being the most 16 succinct presenter we have had so far. 17 1007 MR. BIANCHI: yes. 18 1008 THE CHAIRPERSON: That's not to 19 suggest that we don't like the longer presentations, 20 but that was well done. 21 1009 No questions. 22 1010 Thank you. 23 1011 MS RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is ms 24 Magda de la Torre from CHIN-FM. 25 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION StenoTran 243 1 1012 MS DE LA TORRE: I could try to cram 2 in 10 minutes five pages of arguments, statistics and 3 on-hand experience. 4 1013 I could try to learn in a few days 5 and repeat today the technical and business aspects 6 that my peers live and breath on a daily basis. 7 1014 Born in Cuba, I could also try to 8 convince the CRTC that Cuban Spanish is the best 9 language and that the Cubans need a 24 hour radio and 10 TV station. 11 1015 I will not do any of the three. My 12 message will be direct and hopefully short and sweet. 13 1016 My name is Magda de la Torre and I am 14 a double immigrant. I was born in Cuba and on my first 15 generation I experienced what it meant to live in a 16 complete totalitarian state. 17 1017 As a political refugee I landed in 18 the United States where I had to assimilate int he 19 melting pot existing there. I learned the science of 20 living in a place where the extremes are flaunted on a 21 constant basis. 22 1018 A generation later my work brought me 23 to Canada to experience a more tolerant society; a 24 country where life seemed slower and where compromise 25 was an integral part of society. This, ladies and StenoTran 244 1 gentlemen, is my Canada. 2 1019 As a resident of Canada I am able to 3 speak my mind in front of decision making government 4 executives and try to, in a few minutes, convince them 5 of the reality of my speech. 6 1020 Believe me when I say that as a first 7 generation ethnic it is my choice to reside in Canada. 8 1021 Multicultural, multiracial, 9 multilingual, heritage and culture are words that are 10 respected in a country like Canada. 11 1022 We ethnics are lucky to have a 12 regulated CRTC. 13 1023 As a professional my experiences are 14 a specialist and promoter in the Latin market. In 15 tourism, I represented the governments of Dominical 16 Republic, Virgin Islands, Costa Rica, Panama, American 17 Express and more. 18 1024 In media, for six years I was the 19 comptroller of a print media rep. For five years I 20 produced the No. 1 Spanish TV show in New york's 21 Telemundo. For the last three years we have arranged 22 the latin component of Canadian Music Week, bridging 23 and fostering the best of Canadian Latin talent. For 24 the last four years we have produced Spanish radio 25 shows, including the Mel Lastman Square event of Super StenoTran 245 1 Latin Fest, with over 60,000 people in 1998. 2 1025 I am the producer of "Toronto 3 Latino", CHIN's answer to the first and second 4 generation Spanish community. And, the co-producer of 5 Global Groove Network, an overnight program, also in 6 CHIN. 7 1026 My experience lets me zero in two 8 necessary issues. First issue, second and third 9 generation ethnics. 10 1027 Toronto with its 60 per cent plus of 11 ethnic penetration demands a diverse TV and radio 12 calendar. Today we have increasing new audiences of 13 second and third generation ethnics that have grown up 14 in our great multicultural fibre. While targeting 15 programs for Canada's multicultural reality; Canada 16 needs programs that encompasses the bridging from first 17 to second and third generations. 18 1028 Mainstream media, with very few 19 exceptions, does not pay attention to this increasing 20 growing audience. As an example, the music world. 21 Music has to diversify at a greater, faster mode to 22 serve the appetite of these audiences. Dance music 23 alone comes as pop, dance, hip hop, house, drum and 24 bass, Euro, jungle, garage, techno, disco, Latino, T 25 &B, rap, et cetera, et cetera. StenoTran 246 1 1029 Initially, market demands was one of 2 the reasons why most ethnic radio stations have chosen 3 to devote their schedules almost exclusively to first 4 generation programming, going over the general CRTC 5 requirement of a minimum of 60 per cent ethnic 6 programs. 7 1030 Radio stations could follow the 8 successful format of CFMT, targeting programs to the 9 second and third generations when audiences are more 10 likely to hear and within their 40 per cent licence 11 requirement. 12 1031 As a solution and an opportunity, our 13 company, the Media Group, has started over 60 hours of 14 overnight programs in CHIN-AM and FM, called GGN 1 and 15 2, The Bomb, filling the void in the marketplace for 16 second and third generation ethnics. 17 1032 Second, the lack of TV programming 18 for ethnics. The same market demands have not caused 19 the same effects with television stations. In 20 television the revenues are generated mostly by the 21 financial performance of approximately 40 per cent of 22 the broadcast week -- or "mainstream" programming. 23 1033 If financially viable, TV stations 24 wish to air more quality Cancon programs. 25 1034 The need for more cultural ethnic StenoTran 247 1 based programming can be fulfilled by way of new 2 subsidies and/or funding, grants, co-op, et cetera. 3 This will foster the production of Canadian content for 4 mainstream and ethnic broadcasters alike, thus allowing 5 broadcasters and producers to air and/or produce a 6 wider diversity of themes and characters representing 7 today's multicultural reality in the marketplace. 8 1035 When producing those programs our 9 goal has to be high production values and standard 10 formats to master the globalization and exporting of 11 the programs, thus achieving the financial success and 12 continuity of the productions. This needs to be 13 encouraged by policy and financial enforcement. 14 1036 On those bases, and like I promised 15 in a meeting held to talk about this CRTC public 16 consultation in Telefilm, I requested and got copies of 17 a cultural related production made by PBS, Public 18 Broadcasting System, in Miami 20 years ago and still 19 airs successfully in mainstream TV -- bridging the gap 20 between both communities, mainstream and ethnics, and 21 covering and making laugh three generations. We will 22 approach Telefilm via its newly and ethnic appointed 23 member. Elvira Sanchez. 24 1037 People, let's look for solutions. 25 Solutions is the answer. Let us do it together with a StenoTran 248 1 regulated CRTC. In this case, we cannot afford to 2 imitate the United States. 3 1038 When I see appointments like Elvira 4 Sanchez in Telefilm and Andrew Cardozo in the CRTC, I 5 have hope. 6 1039 Hear our spoken words and read our 7 written words. We already told you that to ethnics 8 this is not a dead issue. instead of one day, these 9 hearings have needed three days. 10 1040 Spanish people are blessed. With our 11 music we have crossed borders with media broadcasters. 12 With my roots being Spanish, together with a copy of my 13 speech, I am leaving for the CRTC Spanish music CDs. 14 Enjoy, dance and feel like an ethnic. 15 1041 I like to thank my peers for their 16 constant support, CHIN RADIO for airing our programs, 17 the CRTC for letting us speak our mind and, to 18 finalize, I like to thank the unique vision of Canada, 19 a country that dares to be different. 20 1042 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 21 much, Ms de la Torre. That was a very inspired and 22 impassioned presentation and I appreciate it. 23 1043 MS DE LA TORRE: It was passionate. 24 1044 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 25 1045 MS RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is Mr. StenoTran 249 1 Lenny Lombardi, Executive Vice-President of CHIN 2 RADIO/TV International. 3 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 4 1046 MR. LOMBARDI: Good evening, 5 Commissioners, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Lenny 6 Lombardi and I am Vice-President of CHIN RADIO/TV 7 International. 8 1047 CHIN intends to file two written 9 submissions regarding the policy review. The first as 10 a licensed broadcaster of CHIN-AM 1540 and CHIN-FM 11 100.7 and the producer of 10 hours of multicultural 12 television programming and the second as a joint 13 submission as a participating member of the Canadian 14 Association of Ethnic Broadcasters. 15 1048 It is not my intention here to 16 reiterate the points to be contained in our written 17 submission, but instead I would like the opportunity to 18 reflect on the reality of CHIN and our hopes for the 19 future of ethnic broadcasting in Canada. 20 1049 CHIN RADIO broadcasts to over 30 21 distinct linguistic and cultural groups combined over 22 both our AM and FM frequencies. Licensed in 1966 CHIN 23 was one of the first Canadian radio stations authorized 24 to provide ethnic programming in Canada. But CHIN's 25 inception as a multilingual broadcast entity is StenoTran 250 1 predated by about 15 years when a young man, having 2 recently returned from overseas as a Sergeant in the 3 Canadian army believed that there was a need in Toronto 4 for radio programming in languages other than English 5 or French. He recognized the large influx of post-war 6 immigrants and in particular the italian immigrants, 7 who had no means of entertainment and information in 8 their own language. 9 1050 He then approached the new owner of 10 1050 CHUM, Allan Waters, and convinced him to sell some 11 of his air time for Italian programming. An idea 12 almost inconceivable, given that in those days it was 13 still illegal for languages other than the official to 14 be spoken on the public airwaves. But the two were 15 undaunted, the program went to air, the host speaking 16 English but playing italian songs. So was born the 17 humble beginnings of ethnic broadcasting, in a time 18 when it was a little more than "politically incorrect" 19 to broadcast in a foreign tongue, men with vision 20 persevered and seized the opportunity. 21 1051 The year was 1950 and the man was 22 Johnny Lombardi, founder and President of CHIN RADIO. 23 Some 15 years later, after having purchased air time 24 from almost every available station in the Toronto 25 market and, in some cases, forced to move his brand of StenoTran 251 1 programming from station to station like a nomad, 2 Johnny Lombardi would finally find a permanent home and 3 begin to build the station format we have today at 4 CHIN. 5 1052 CHIN RADIO became a haven for 6 independent producers and amateur broadcasters alike, 7 inviting all and giving opportunity to hone skills and 8 establish programming for their respective communities. 9 In those early days of broadcasting the objectives were 10 clear, get and maintain financial stability through 11 advertising, and serve the entertainment, information 12 and educational needs of our listeners. This has 13 always been and continues to be the primary role of 14 ethnic broadcasters. 15 1053 Today CHIN RADIO works hard to secure 16 producers and succeed in a competitive environment. 17 CHIN RADIO is in effect 30 stations and must be 18 sensitive to the needs of all our listeners. Each 19 program has a producer, program director, a sales rep, 20 a copy writer, a traffic co-ordinator and 21 administrator. Over 90 per cent of the revenue is 22 generated from the retail market, with very little 23 support coming from national advertisers. Ethnic 24 broadcasting is distinct, intensive and demanding. 25 1054 Ethnic programming on CHIN is StenoTran 252 1 strongly community based. Each program strives to 2 reflect the activities and aspirations of the community 3 it serves. The best example of radio support for 4 community can be seen in our CHIN International Picnic. 5 Celebrating our 34th year, the picnic is a 6 multicultural festival of music and cultural expression 7 produced exclusively by CHIN and is the showcasing and 8 expression of the many multicultural communities that 9 thrive in our city and is supported by our station's 10 programming. 11 1055 Held each year on the Canada Day 12 weekend, the world's largest free international picnic 13 attracts over 250,000 people, features over 1,000 14 multicultural entertainers performing on three stages 15 running concurrently throughout the weekend. Born from 16 the idea of a simple celebration 34 years ago, the 17 picnic has blossomed into a world class event that 18 proudly demonstrates and celebrates the rich cultural 19 diversity of Toronto and of Canada. 20 1056 CHIN RADIO is TV as well. CHIN has 21 been producing multicultural programs for Toronto TV 22 since 1970. Starting out at CKVR in Barrie, and then 23 on to Global, CHIN found its home on CityTV. We have 24 been proudly broadcasting 10 hours of international 25 programs to 12 distinct linguistic and cultural groups StenoTran 253 1 on CityTV since the early eighties. CityTV is to be 2 commended for their unfailing dedication to the 3 preservation of cultural identity. Since their 4 inception, City Television has always included ethnic 5 programming as part of their schedule, recognizing even 6 then the unique cultural makeup of Toronto. We are 7 proud of our longstanding association with CityTV and 8 continue to look forward to providing quality ethnic 9 programming through them, each and every week. 10 1057 Fourteen years have passed since the 11 implementation of the ethnic policy in 1985. In this 12 rapidly changing environment we as broadcasters have 13 new and exciting challenges on the horizon. 14 1058 The evolution and integration of some 15 ethnic communities is well under way. The second and 16 third generation members of those communities are 17 letting their voices be heard and the message we hear 18 is that language based Type A programs do not serve the 19 entire community as well as it once did. Within some 20 communities Type C and D programming might be more 21 attractive, but caution must be exercised. no 22 broadcaster wants to rush to serve one at the expense 23 of another. Preserving audience while expanding 24 listenership will be a formidable challenge. 25 1059 Ethnic broadcasters in radio all try StenoTran 254 1 to comply with the amount of Canadian content required, 2 but can only do so by creating the product themselves. 3 CHIN annually produces music festivals and records 4 segments of the CHIN picnic and other cultural events 5 for both radio and television as a means of showcasing 6 ethno-Canadian culture. This is costly and labour 7 intensive. Ways in which to harness the tremendous 8 talent within the cultural communities and additional 9 means in which to stimulate the record industry to 10 respond to this wealth of talent needs to be explored. 11 Ethnic radio alone cannot adequately support the 12 Canadian content requirements across the board in every 13 language group. Any increase without additional 14 measures in place would be a burden. 15 1060 In conclusion, the multicultural 16 nature of Canada is on the increase due to immigration. 17 According to StatsCan 1996, the rate of immigrants 18 reporting a mother tongue other than English and French 19 grew two and a half times faster than the overall 20 growth rate of the Canadian population. In Toronto, 21 the most ethnically diverse city in Canada, according 22 to StatsCan, states that 33 per cent of the total 23 population speaks a language other than English or 24 French in the home. Canada and Toronto has never been 25 more multicultural and multilingual than today. StenoTran 255 1 1061 The main objective of the ethnic 2 broadcaster is to provide entertainment, information 3 and educational needs of our multilingual listeners. 4 Reflecting the cultural diversity of Canada to all 5 Canadians is a shared responsibility of each and every 6 broadcaster. We support the initiatives that encourage 7 all broadcasters to reflect that reality to all 8 Canadians. We discovered years ago the joy of 9 celebrating our cultural differences as proud 10 Canadians. We want to continue to spread that 11 important message. 12 1062 Thank you for this opportunity to 13 present our views and we look forward to participating 14 further through the written submission phase of this 15 review. Thank you. 16 1063 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 17 much, Mr. Lombardi. 18 1064 Madam Secretary. 19 1065 MS RHÉAUME: We will now hear a 20 presentation by Mr. Sher Singh. 21 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 22 1066 MR. SINGH: Thank you. 23 1067 Madam Commissioner, Mr. Commissioner, 24 I should state at the outset I am not a producer or an 25 owner or in any way associated with any TV or radio StenoTran 256 1 channel. I am here to speak as a consumer, as one who 2 stands where the rubber hits the road. I do not 3 represent any organization or any group. I am here to 4 speak only on my behalf. 5 1068 Four points I would like to make and 6 if I may summarize them at the outset. First of all, I 7 believe that the test of what should be done or should 8 not be done, the touchstone against which everything 9 should be rubbed is does it help new Canadians and 10 their children? Does it help children of different 11 backgrounds in becoming full-fledged Canadians, fully 12 productive Canadians part of mainstream Canada? 13 1069 If that test is met, then what we are 14 doing, what we are deciding not to do, I would suggest, 15 would point us in the right direction. 16 1070 The second point I would like to make 17 is the more well-grounded a person, a citizen is in his 18 or her past, the more easily he or she is able to move 19 into the future. It is important to understand that 20 what ethnic programming, third-language programming is 21 doing is helping new Canadians and their children, 22 those people who are in the process of becoming 23 full-fledged participants in Canada to get well 24 grounded, so that they can move forward into new 25 territory. They can only do so and benefit from it and StenoTran 257 1 achieve the optimum result if they are fully confident 2 of themselves, of their past, of their heritage, of 3 their traditions, of their language, of their 4 ethnicity, et cetera. 5 1071 The third point I would like to make 6 is that we have to be careful that we don't create 7 ghettos. The system works the same way as we would in 8 housing. Would it benefit this society or any group or 9 Canada as a whole if in housing we create ghettos where 10 certain communities are segregated because it is more 11 convenient, for that particular group or other groups, 12 that it be done so? I would suggest that our 13 experience has taught us that that is not so. My 14 suggestion would be that we do not isolate ethnic 15 programming or programming directed to the immediate 16 benefit of new Canadians or immigrants away from 17 mainstream, to the point that it creates a new ghetto 18 and does not permit any interaction between mainstream 19 Canada and new Canadians who are preoccupied in 20 becoming part of the larger community. 21 1072 Finally, I would like to suggest that 22 what we have been doing in the last decade or so is 23 working. All we need to do is fine-tune it, strengthen 24 it, see how we can take it further, how we can develop 25 it, how we can build on it, rather than change the StenoTran 258 1 direction completely or dismantle what we are doing or 2 derail it completely for some reason or other. 3 1073 I should add that I came to this 4 country as a 20-year old about 30 years ago and the 5 first 15 years or so were extremely distressing in 6 terms of ethnic programming, third-language 7 programming. It was trash, particularly in the 8 languages that I speak, but I am aware of the quality 9 that generally was available to other communities, to 10 other language groups and I am sure there were 11 exceptions, but generally there was a problem. 12 1074 I think the problem related to a 13 number of factors; one, that the numbers in many of the 14 communities did not justify more expense, more 15 investment in such shows. Two, many of the communities 16 had not been here long enough and had not attained 17 maturity, et cetera, and, third, possibly as a result 18 of the second point, there was dependency on old 19 country programming, stuff that was not only imported, 20 but ensured that new Canadians remained tied to their 21 past and could not move forward in any particular 22 manner. That has changed drastically in the last 10 23 years and I have noticed that the programming has taken 24 a giant leap forward. The quality has improved to the 25 point that it often, more often than not, matches StenoTran 259 1 mainstream programming in quality and the impact it has 2 on the communities. 3 1075 I would suggest that we work along 4 those lines and see what is working, what is having the 5 maximum impact on the communities and strengthen that. 6 1076 I want to give one example of an 7 exercise I was involved in in the last two years. The 8 Sikh community in 1997 celebrated 100 years in Canada. 9 It was the centennial of the first Sikh settlement in 10 1897. 11 1077 We struggled with what should we do 12 with it. Should we do some shows on our ethnic and 13 Punjabi-language programs, et cetera, et cetera. We 14 came to the conclusion that the best way of going about 15 commemorating that was to do it by including all 16 generations within the community, whether they were 17 new, second, third, fourth generation or those who have 18 just stepped off the boat or the plane, as well as the 19 community at large. 20 1078 I should say that one type of program 21 that was produced by CFMT was, oddly enough, entirely 22 in the English language. It was done from beginning to 23 the end in English, directed to the community and ended 24 up being not only a very useful tool within the 25 community, but outside the Sikh community as well and StenoTran 260 1 was received with incredible support. Not one negative 2 response was received indicating why wasn't it in the 3 third language, et cetera, et cetera. 4 1079 That exercise was so successful, it 5 was an unprecedented attempt on the part of CFMT to try 6 something of that sort. It was so successful that it 7 was repeated the following year and I understand it 8 will be repeated further. 9 1080 My suggestion would be that there be 10 something inculcated to encourage communities to move 11 in that direction. I understand now that if 12 programming is done in English, if it is done in ways 13 that move away from third-language use, then it doesn't 14 fall within certain categories and I know you have 15 certain quotas and requirements. I understand there is 16 a category where if it is done in English it doesn't 17 fall within the ethnic quota required, et cetera, et 18 cetera. 19 1081 My suggestion would be that there be 20 encouragement of two kinds; one, ethnic shows, 21 third-language shows be encouraged on their own -- on 22 their own free will voluntarily as the needs of the 23 community changes. For example, the needs of the older 24 communities, whether they are Ukrainian, Italian, 25 German, et cetera, are different from the new StenoTran 261 1 communities that have arrived in this country in the 2 last 10 years. Leave it to them to determine what are 3 the needs of their communities. 4 1082 For example, I look at my own family, 5 three generations of them living here. My parents came 6 with some English, learned some more English, 7 nevertheless they speak English with a heavy accent. I 8 speak with minimal accent and I am able to get by with 9 facility in the language. My daughter was born here 10 and does not speak with any accent and can fit into any 11 group without any suggestion that she has an accent or 12 does not fit in, et cetera, et cetera. This has 13 happened through evolution. It has happened through 14 evolution and, therefore, whatever forces that 15 permitted that sort of a thing to happen should be 16 encouraged. We need to understand that ethnic 17 programming, third-language programming in fact 18 encourages new Canadians to become fully productive 19 Canadians, 100 per cent Canadians. 20 1083 If we assist that, if we take 21 ownership of it, if the CRTC regulates it and keeps 22 ownership of it, it will carry on doing what is 23 absolutely essential for the growth of this country. 24 1084 The second point I would like to make 25 in that regard is that we need to encourage mainstream StenoTran 262 1 channels, stations and programming, to have the type of 2 programming that I mentioned. The show that I was 3 referring to was "Sutstri Ecol" (ph), produced by CFMT 4 in the English language to commemorate an ethnic event 5 which essentially should be of interest and is of 6 interest to 100 per cent of Canadians. It was a 7 celebration of an event which needs to be understood 8 and commemorated and celebrated by everybody and was. 9 1085 If we do not encourage mainstream 10 channels and stations to participate in that, that sort 11 of activity where they move into areas where the needs 12 of all segments of the community are met, if we do not 13 do so, then we are not only creating ghettos within the 14 industry, but as well we are permitting mainstream 15 channels and shows and stations to increasingly cater 16 to an ever decreasing population, ever decreasing 17 market and it does not serve the purpose of the 18 community at large that that should happen. 19 1086 Those are all the points I need to 20 make. 21 1087 Thank you. 22 1088 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 23 much, Mr. Singh, and thank you for taking the time to 24 be with us. 25 1089 MR. SINGH: My pleasure. StenoTran 263 1 1090 MS RHÉAUME: The next presenter is 2 Mr. Ben Viccari, President of the Canadian Ethnic 3 Journalists' and Writers' Club. 4 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 5 1091 MR. VICCARI: Madam Commissioner, Mr. 6 Commissioner, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Ben 7 Viccari and I would like to thank you for the 8 opportunity of addressing you on behalf of the Canadian 9 Ethnic journalists' and Writers' Club, of which I am 10 the current President. 11 1092 I am also managing editor of Canadian 12 Scene, a non-profit multilingual news and information 13 service for Canada's ethnic media and a television 14 commentator on CFMT television. You will be hearing 15 from the President of Canadian Scene, Mr. John Oostrom, 16 at tomorrow's consultations. 17 1093 The Canadian Ethnic Journalists' and 18 Writers' Club is an inclusive organization of print and 19 broadcast media people: from freelance writers to 20 reporters, to editors, to publishers, founded on 21 democratic principles 21 years ago by the late Sierhey 22 Khmara Ziniak, editor/publisher of the Byelorussian 23 Voice. Existing ethnic media associations up to that 24 time had been exclusively for print media and 25 membership was confined to publishers. StenoTran 264 1 1094 Incidentally, I was very pleased to 2 see that 11 of our members have shown up here tonight. 3 1095 The Club has never sought financial 4 support from any government with the exception of a 5 one-time, partial funding by the federal and ontario 6 governments of an anthology of members' writings 13 7 years ago. 8 1096 We hold monthly speakers' meetings 9 and two celebratory dinners a year, one: to 10 commemorate, collectively, joyous festivals such as 11 Christmas, Hanukkah, Diwali, Ramadhan and the Chinese 12 New Year, and one to present nine journalism awards. 13 Our speakers in recent times have included the Hon. 14 Hedy Fry, Secretary of State for Multiculturalism and 15 the Status of Women, the Hon. Mike Harris, Premier of 16 Ontario, Mr. Dalton McGuinty, leader of the Ontario 17 Liberal Party, His Excellency Rajanikanta Verma, the 18 High Commissioner of India, and CRTC Commissioner Mr. 19 Andrew Cardozo, who urged members of ethnocultural 20 communities to communicate with the Commission when 21 issues affecting them arise. That his message was well 22 received has, I think, been well demonstrated by the 23 fact that these Toronto consultations have been 24 extended from a single day to three. 25 1097 We, the Club, vigorously support the StenoTran 265 1 rights of ethnic journalists to free expression in the 2 language of their choice with a special emphasis on 3 interpreting Canada to new Canadians and not-so-new 4 Canadians to whom the mother tongue is still the 5 language of comfort, however fluent they may be in 6 English. 7 1098 We are currently engaged in 8 developing a strategy to communicate the fact that we 9 are professionals and as such and because of our 10 ability to further the cause of good citizenship we 11 deserve greater recognition by mainstream institutions 12 in the form of invitations to their news conferences 13 and other events. 14 1099 I use the term "mainstream" to 15 indicate what is today a rather blurry dividing line 16 between the "us" or the majority of citizens and "then" 17 members of a large number of ethnic minorities in 18 Toronto in particular where, collectively, minorities 19 will soon become the majority. 20 1100 I would like first to present what I 21 believe to be our members' views on third-language 22 communications. We know that, according to the 1996 23 census, there were in this country some 4.9 million 24 people whose mother tongue was neither English nor 25 French and that 2.8 million of these still used the StenoTran 266 1 mother tongue at home. This is particularly true of 2 large urban areas, particularly Toronto with 25 per 3 cent using the mother tongue at home and Vancouver with 4 22 per cent. 5 1101 Now, judging by the increasing number 6 of people who, annually, seek Canadian citizenship one 7 can safely assume that while to so many the language of 8 comfort is a third language, they are eager to know 9 more and more about Canadian customs, history, law 10 politics and the rights and responsibilities of 11 citizenship. 12 1102 The three-way information partnership 13 of print, radio and television is therefore vital as a 14 means of satisfying these needs, and it is the opinion 15 of members of this Club that in this sense, while the 16 present broadcasting system is partially serving 17 ethnocultural communities, even more ethnic programming 18 of Canadian content would be welcome and that the 19 Commission should do all it can to encourage the growth 20 of such programming. We see it as an important 21 corollary of good citizenship and, therefore, of nation 22 building. 23 1103 This, we believe, should not 24 necessarily imply that the importation of some foreign 25 programs on existing TV facilities be proscribed any StenoTran 267 1 more than the right of public broadcasters such as 2 TV-Ontario to import British programming should be 3 removed. 4 1104 The national policy of 5 multiculturalism proclaimed in 1971 became codified 6 with an Act of Parliament in 1988, and we are therefore 7 looking at almost 30 years in which Canadians of all 8 origins have been encouraged to cherish their heritages 9 as well as to become model Canadian citizens. In 10 Canada, the two go hand in hand and the eyes of the 11 world are on Canadian multiculturalism with envy for 12 the way in which we people of so many different origins 13 are living together side by side. 14 1105 We cannot deny that discrimination 15 and racism still exist here, but nevertheless while we 16 can always recognize the fact that there is room for 17 improvement, we can at least pride ourselves on the 18 distance we have come in Canada. And I think we owe a 19 lot to ethnic programming for that. 20 1106 In conclusion, we would like to touch 21 on what the Commission terms Type E programming. We 22 firmly believe that programs of an ethnocultural nature 23 in French or English directed to any ethnic group or 24 groups or to a mainstream audience that further an 25 understanding of multiculturalism are of a highly StenoTran 268 1 desirable nature and should be considered ethnic 2 programming when they are broadcast by ethnic stations. 3 It is also a very good idea to try to promote, as some 4 people have suggested here tonight, multicultural 5 programming on mainstream stations. 6 1107 In conclusion, Commissioners, 7 speaking for members of the Canadian Ethnic 8 Journalists' and Writers' Club, I trust that the 9 Commission will discern the vast potential toward 10 nation building offered by ethnic broadcasting and 11 encourage its continuance and growth. May I 12 congratulate you on these consultations which we are 13 convinced will lead to even greater harmony and 14 understanding between all Canadians. 15 1108 Thank you. 16 1109 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 17 much, Mr. Viccari. 18 1110 MS RHÉAUME: The next presenter is Ms 19 Cecilia Mar, producer of Chinese programs on CHIN 20 RADIO/TV International. 21 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 22 1111 MS MAR: Good evening, Commissioners, 23 ladies and gentlemen. My name is Cecilia Mar and I am 24 the producer of CHIN RADIO/TV International Chinese 25 programs. StenoTran 269 1 1112 Upon my graduation from the 2 University of Southern California in Los Angeles in 3 1988, my family and I have come to Toronto -- have 4 moved to Toronto that same year. including my 5 schooling in the United States, have been residing in 6 North America of close to 19 years. My broadcasting 7 career started in 1990 when I joined CHIN Radio Chinese 8 Program as a part-time announcer. At that time there 9 were only a total of 10 hours of Chinese programming at 10 CHIN per week, but over the years with the tremendous 11 increase of the Chinese population in Toronto, the CHIN 12 Chinese programming has now been increased to a seven 13 days' broadcast of a total of 46 hours of Chinese radio 14 programming per week. 15 1113 Before I continue my presentation 16 tonight, I would like to, first of all, first of all, 17 read to all of you three letters that were written to 18 the CHIN Chinese Program by fellow listeners. All 19 three letters were written in Chinese and I have 20 translated them in English and summarized them as 21 follows. Letter number one is written by Mr. Ng who is 22 an immigrant from China and has come to Toronto about a 23 year ago. 24 1114 Due to his lack of communication 25 skills in English it was hard for him to adapt to the StenoTran 270 1 Canadian lifestyle at the beginning. By listening to 2 our radio programming he is able to get access to the 3 daily essential information, such as the community 4 news, daily news from back home and other types of 5 informative programs. 6 1115 He is currently renting an apartment 7 in Toronto and recently he has been having problems 8 with his landlord, which by listening to our law 9 program on every Thursday night he was able to make his 10 inquiry over the phone through our speaker host, one of 11 the Chinese litigation lawyers. His problems were 12 solved and besides writing to compliment our radio 13 programming, he also wanted to express his thanks to 14 our station for allowing him the opportunity to have 15 his inquiries answered. 16 1116 He also wants to show us his 17 appreciation on how the Chinese programming helped him 18 in his daily life. 19 1117 Letter number two is written by Mr. 20 Jonathan Chen who is a student from Hong Kong. He has 21 been in Canada for a year now. He has decided to 22 further his education in Toronto and at first, like 23 letter number one from Mr. Ng, life was just as 24 difficult for him due to the lack of acquaintances, as 25 well as that he is not familiar with the area. StenoTran 271 1 1118 On one occasion he was introduced to 2 the Chinese radio programming which he began to like 3 very much, to a point where he is now a regular 4 listener of our radio programming. 5 1119 Besides again, he wants to show his 6 appreciation to the CHIN Chinese program for the 7 quality programming that we have provided and the 8 essential information which as a newcomer he 9 appreciates a great deal. 10 1120 There are also other inquiries that 11 he wishes to make and wishes to obtain answers from us 12 about his schooling. There are questions. To 13 summarize, these questions about -- they are mainly 14 pertaining to questions in terms of the application for 15 university admission. 16 1121 Letter number three was written by 17 Mr. Ho and his family who have come to Canada for 17 18 years now and who is also a long time loyal listener to 19 the CHIN Chinese radio program. 20 1122 By radio programming it is possible 21 for him to receive the latest news and happenings from 22 back home. English being the second language, 23 therefore, the Chinese radio broadcast plays a very 24 important part in their daily lives. His children are 25 born and raised in Toronto, but through the Chinese StenoTran 272 1 radio broadcasts they can retain their knowledge in 2 their own culture and continue to practise to speak 3 their mother tongue, Chinese. 4 1123 Furthermore, the station organizes a 5 number of cultural events throughout the year, such as 6 the CHIN International Picnic at the CNE and Canada's 7 Wonderland Chinese Festival. These type of events are 8 not only entertaining, but it is also a fabulous 9 gathering to promote the cultural diversity. 10 1124 I will include the letters that I 11 have mentioned previously in my written submissions to 12 the CRTC later on. 13 1125 The above-mentioned letters are 14 classic examples which these type of letters we receive 15 on a regular basis. People from different age groups, 16 social and educational backgrounds who have different 17 needs to rely on Chinese radio broadcasts. The three 18 classic examples that I have provided basically dissect 19 our listeners into three categories: the younger 20 listeners, the newly arrived and the established 21 Canadians of Chinese heritage. 22 1126 The three categories of listeners 23 have three common needs out of ethnic cultural radio 24 programming and they also present the three main 25 objectives in which our radio program is produced. StenoTran 273 1 1127 Number one, to introduce Canadian 2 culture to the new arrivals. 3 1128 Number two, to help the newly arrived 4 or established immigrants to retain their own culture. 5 1129 Number three, to bridge the gap 6 between the mainstream society and the ethnic 7 community. 8 1130 In conclusion, the CHIN Chinese radio 9 programming receives its support mainly from our 10 community. Revenue is generated to sustain the 11 operation through retail advertisers within our 12 community. Support from the mainstream society is also 13 obtained by national advertisers, although it has still 14 not yet reached the extent that we would like it to be. 15 1131 As the producer of the CHIN Chinese 16 program, I would like to extend my thanks to the CRTC 17 for granting us the opportunity for ethnic cultural 18 programming and to allow myself the opportunity to 19 pursue my own career in the field that I enjoy very 20 much. Our existence has definitely helped both the 21 Chinese community and the mainstream society to grow 22 together for a better and prosperous Canada. 23 1132 Thank you. 24 1133 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 25 much, Ms Mar, and we would like to extend our thanks to StenoTran 274 1 you for being with us. 2 1134 MS MAR: Thank you. 3 1135 MS RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is Mr. 4 John Zarrinmehr. Mr. John Zarrinmehr. 5 1136 Mr. Bill Yancoff, producer for the 6 Macedonian Heritage TV program on CFMT-TV. 7 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 8 1137 MR. YANCOFF: Madames et messieurs, 9 honourable members of the Canadian Radio-television and 10 Telecommunications Commission. It is a great honour to 11 be able to address you regarding the CRTC's review on 12 its policy vis-à-vis third language and ethnic 13 programming. 14 1138 Mnogu sum gord shto sekoya sabota 15 preku televiziskata programa, Makedonski Koreni, 16 prenesuvame vazhni novini za zhivotot vo Kanada. 17 1139 I'm very proud that every Saturday on 18 the Macedonian Heritage television program we bring our 19 viewers important news about life in Canada. 20 1140 As we do every Saturday morning on 21 CFMT-TV, Channel 47 in Toronto, and as we have been 22 doing since CFMT's inception, I addressed you in the 23 Macedonian language. 24 1141 One of the Commission's questions is, 25 "Should there be a priority on the development of StenoTran 275 1 Canadian ethnocultural services rather than importing 2 foreign services?" 3 1142 Absolutely! Speaking in a third 4 language within a Canadian context enables the 5 Macedonian community and others to receive up-to-date 6 information on life in Canada in Macedonian. It 7 promotes family issues, solid Canadian citizenship and 8 the very ideals that make Canada second to none in the 9 world. it also assists in language retention, which in 10 my case stimulated me to learn the macedonian literary 11 language. Canadian business and government delegations 12 now actively recruit third language speakers to benefit 13 Canadian trade and commerce. 14 1143 Not only do we assist the integration 15 of new Canadians into Canadian society with 16 third-language programming, there are a number of other 17 benefits. Over the past 10 years as producer of the 18 show, I have seen a number of positive developments on 19 a wide range of Canadian-based issues, presenting 20 information in the macedonian language, one of 19 21 languages promoted on CFMT-TV. 22 1144 Regular interviews with 23 representatives of the police and all levels of 24 government enable our viewers to understand the rules 25 and regulations of the land, along with a chance to StenoTran 276 1 voice their opinions and make inquiries from 2 information presented on these segments. We also have 3 presented important information regarding issues such 4 as immigration, health and welfare concerns, the 5 Canadian census and a wide variety of other topics. 6 1145 Promoting Macedonian language and 7 culture greatly adds to the ethnocultural mosaic of 8 this country and assists in the retention of one's 9 heritage within a Canadian context. I'm a vivid 10 example of that. Born in Canada, it was an interview 11 on the Macedonian program on CFMT-TV in 1984, about a 12 Macedonian cultural extravaganza at Roy Thomson Hall, 13 Oro Makedonsko, that made me interested in learning 14 more about my heritage and about defining myself as a 15 Canadian of Macedonian origin, and how I could share 16 this rich culture with others. 17 1146 To answer another of your queries, 18 the present broadcasting system does adequately serve 19 Canada's ethnocultural communities. 20 Macedonian-Canadians and others from across the 21 Province of Ontario tune into our show on a regular 22 basis and, in some cases, respond en masse to 23 humanitarian issues presented on our show. those in 24 need like Suzana Kazakova, a 21-year old Canadian of 25 Macedonian descent, who needs a bone marrow transplant, StenoTran 277 1 received thousands of calls from blood donors, thanks 2 to our show and message in Macedonian. 3 1147 Many of those viewers were from 4 Croatia, from Bulgaria, Yugoslavia. They responded 5 because they could understand Macedonian, which reveals 6 a cross-cultural benefit of third-language programming. 7 There hasn't been a match yet for Suzana, but we will 8 continue to promote her cause on the show and, 9 hopefully, a match will be found soon. 10 1148 It would be very advantageous for 11 CFMT-TV to broadcast nationally, so that we could 12 promote Canadian issues and Macedonian culture across 13 the country. Viewers from outside Ontario regularly 14 inquire about the possibility of Macedonian Heritage 15 being aired in B.C. or Quebec or Alberta. I urge the 16 Commission to consider the enhancement of Canadian 17 unity and cultural diversity that such a network would 18 most certainly provide. 19 1149 Responding to another of the 20 Commission's questions, I believe that if we were to 21 solely import foreign services, we would not be 22 promoting Canadian ideals to our citizens. It may 23 create disunity among some ethnocultural groups. Some 24 countries promote ideals that are contrary to Canada's, 25 and may not be as understanding and accepting as those StenoTran 278 1 in this country, which are entrenched in government 2 legislation and relate to human rights and freedoms 3 that we sometimes take for granted. 4 1150 The CRTC's present policy adequately 5 serves Canadians of all ethnic backgrounds. It helps 6 promote harmony among all Canadians because it provides 7 access to all ethnocultural communities, not just the 8 most populous groups that bring in the most revenue. 9 To alter this policy would be a form of discrimination 10 and would make ethnic programming exclusive, rather 11 than the current policy of the Commission that has 12 worked so well for so many years. We urge you to 13 continue to provide third-language services to 14 Canadians of all backgrounds. 15 1151 Macedonian-Canadians thank you for 16 the opportunity to watch Macedonian-language 17 programming. Like some ethnocultural groups, our 18 macedonian language and culture are not promoted and as 19 accessible in some countries as they are in Canada, 20 which is a model for multicultural unity. Hopefully, 21 Macedonian Heritage will be aired one day from coast to 22 coast on CFMT-TV, which is perhaps the greatest success 23 story of Canadian multiculturalism to date. 24 1152 Vi blagodarime za vasheto ceneto 25 vnimanie. StenoTran 279 1 1153 I thank you for your attention. 2 1154 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 3 much, Mr. Yancoff. 4 1155 MS RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is Dr. 5 Colin Maloney, Executive Director for the Catholic 6 Children's Aid Society. 7 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 8 1156 DR. MALONEY: Thank you. 9 1157 Being Executive Director of a 10 mainstream agency that serves over 12,000 families a 11 year, with staff able to deliver services in 43 12 different languages, I just came to affirm to the CRTC 13 the issue for us is that ethnic television and radio 14 have been great partners to us. Stations like 15 Telelatino and CHIN not just have the linguistic 16 ability as you could import from anywhere, but to 17 engage with us as true partners. 18 1158 It is impressive with us that as we 19 try to reach and form and teach in a preventive way the 20 Canadian issues of child welfare, of parenting, of 21 difficulties, as we try to recruit foster homes for 22 children that are in need from various communities, 23 these stations have been willing to reach out with us 24 in partnership. It is far beyond just having something 25 in their own language. We have found these stations to StenoTran 280 1 be truly close to their communities, concerned of their 2 issues and willing to be truly public servants with us 3 as a mainstream agency, that I think it's just as a 4 value I want to be here tonight to ensure that that 5 partnership, that community based and that public 6 service that I have felt are not lost just because some 7 other -- from a linguistic point of view. 8 1159 We would be, as a mainstream agency, 9 impoverished if that were to change drastically. 10 1160 Thank you very much. 11 1161 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 12 much, Dr. Maloney. 13 1162 MS RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is Ms 14 Nellie Pedro. 15 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 16 1163 MS PEDRO: Good evening. Thank you 17 very much for the opportunity. 18 1164 First of all, I would like to say 19 that I consider myself to be an ethnic Canadian, in the 20 same way that there is French-Canadian, 21 English-Canadian. I think it would be of importance to 22 ethnic groups to be classified as ethnic Canadians. 23 1165 My name is Nellie pedro. I am the 24 co-producer and host of "Gente da Nossa" a Type A TV 25 program in the Portuguese language. "Gente da Nossa," StenoTran 281 1 translated means "Our People". It is part of the CHIN 2 RADIO and TV ethnic programming broadcasting on one of 3 the mainstream television stations CityTV, Channel 7. 4 I hope that my presentation here today will reflect the 5 importance of having independent programming done, as 6 well as mainstream stations providing air time to these 7 particular programming. 8 1166 Allow me to give you a condensed 9 history of "Gente da Nossa". Caesar pedro is the 10 original producer who began the program in 1987 on 11 Graham Cable. 12 1167 The program is 99 per cent portuguese 13 Canadian content. We keep our audience informed and 14 entertained by providing images of activities organized 15 by our clubs and associations. We provide video clips 16 of local artists, interviews to educators, labourers, 17 union representatives, doctors, politicians, musicians, 18 artists, painters, successful businesses, entrepreneurs 19 and role models of our community. 20 1168 We take our cameras to cover events 21 in the portuguese communities in Ontario such as 22 Mississauga, Brampton, Hamilton, Cambridge, London, 23 Sarnia, Ottawa, Leamington, Windsor, Kingston. We have 24 gone to other communities in provinces such as -- well, 25 in Montreal, St. John's, Newfoundland, Calgary, Bermuda StenoTran 282 1 and various parts of the United States, the Continent, 2 Portugal, Madeira and the Azores. 3 1169 After volunteering our time to the 4 program since 1987, we have to date produced 564 shows; 5 40 of which were live call in shows. Just to liven 6 things up, I would like us all to watch them now. No. 7 Okay. 8 1170 In September of 1997 we joined Chin's 9 multicultural programming on CityTV. We took on the 10 financial responsibility of producing a commercial 11 program for our community. We have obtained sponsors, 12 generated advertising dollars, and are able to provide 13 revenue to pay for our air time to CHIN RADIO and 14 CityTV. 15 1171 We know we are producing a program 16 which is unique, informative, educational, entertaining 17 and this all due to the feedback from hundreds of phone 18 calls and letters that we receive from our viewers. I 19 would like to add that the viewers of Portuguese 20 language programming, such as our own, is not just 21 Portuguese-speaking people. We have, and I have 22 letters which will be followed, from native Canadians 23 that watch the program and in one particular case a 24 native Canadian that lives in Bath, Ontario wrote to me 25 and sent me an Indian prayer and he specifically said StenoTran 283 1 that he doesn't understand what I am saying, but he 2 enjoys the smile. And not only that, but he enjoys the 3 music as well and he is learning about my culture as he 4 hopes the rest of Canada learns about his. 5 1172 We have a lot of Italian people that 6 watch our program as well. 7 1173 On "Gente da Nossa" our priority is 8 to promote the Portuguese community in a positive 9 manner. We provide air time to those that cannot get 10 air time on other Portuguese television programs. 11 1174 As an example, recently we had a 12 guest that was a victim of a pedophile. After his 13 abuser was convicted of two counts of sexual 14 molestation to a minor, the victim wanted to go on TV 15 to tell his story and to warn parents about the signs 16 to look for and how to protect their children from such 17 people. 18 1175 According to him, he contacted all 19 the Portuguese language programs and no one would touch 20 the subject. We did. We gave him plenty of time. 21 Perhaps the reason is that I have seven-year old and it 22 is important to provide the information to other 23 parents. I believe that if this story was not told in 24 the Portuguese language the majority of the community 25 and of the audience, and especially the mothers, would StenoTran 284 1 not have the proper information to protect their 2 children from such people as pedophiles. 3 1176 Another example of the importance of 4 the program that we provide, as well as independent 5 productions, is the fact that we had for the first time 6 a wife abuser who wanted to come on. He is a 7 recovering abuser of family assault and wife assault 8 and he wanted to come on to tell and encourage other 9 men that this was wrong, that this was not right and 10 that they should seek help and that help is available 11 and that they could be cured. We provided the air time 12 for him to come on and do so. We interviewed him in 13 Portuguese and it was extremely important and one of 14 the programs that we had a lot of phone calls and a lot 15 of mail from because of its social impact in the 16 community. For the first time, a man was willing to 17 speak and we were willing to put him on TV and hear 18 him. 19 1177 We provide the air time and did -- 20 1178 If the CRTC policy did not allow 21 mainstream television stations to provide ethnic 22 programming in Types A and D without prior Commission 23 approval, I would not be able to provide my show to the 24 community. 25 1179 I urge the Commission to encourage StenoTran 285 1 conventional television stations to be more culturally 2 sensitive. Provide the 15 per cent of their weekly 3 programming schedule permitted, either Type A to D, or 4 to produce their own Type E programs directed at ethnic 5 groups, depicting Canada's diversity through programs 6 that are multicultural, educational, informational and 7 intercultural in nature. 8 1180 I am requesting that 15 per cent of 9 the weekly programming on mainstream stations is 10 realistic, considering that in Toronto alone 11 approximately 33 per cent of the residents report the 12 exclusive use in the house of a language other than 13 French or English. 14 1181 I just want to tell you a little bit 15 about my particular community. We have different 16 numbers than Statistics Canada. According to our 17 community, we have approximately 750,000 Portuguese 18 Canadians, 500,000 in Ontario, 220,000 in the Toronto 19 area, 96,000 in Mississauga and Brampton and the 20 remaining are in southwestern Ontario, Ottawa, 21 Kingston, as well as northern Ontario, including 22 Sudbury. I also have had calls from Baffin Island, 23 from six Portuguese that are working in a lounge there 24 that watch my show, so that's great. I need those six 25 viewers. StenoTran 286 1 1182 The Portuguese in Toronto make up 2.3 2 per cent of the population by mother tongue. It's the 3 third largest non-English group in the Greater Toronto 4 Area after the Chinese and Italian and the Portuguese 5 have been in Canada since the 1950s. Eighty-five per 6 cent of Portuguese Canadians view programs in their 7 mother tongue. 8 1183 I do not see the need for the CRTC to 9 provide protection to licensees of ethnic television 10 stations by placing a ceiling of no more than 10 per 11 cent allowed of ethnic programming on their weekly 12 schedules to television stations in the same market. 13 Since it is permitted up to 15 per cent, it is not 14 encouraging to see the CRTC places a cap of 10 per cent 15 in order to protect ethnic stations. 16 1184 It is difficult to believe the claim 17 that the bulk of the revenue that ethnic television 18 stations generate is from 40 per cent of non-Canadian, 19 non-ethnic programming. I really hope that that is not 20 a fact. 21 1185 If it is not ethnic revenues that are 22 providing the funding for ethnic television stations, 23 then why keep them? Why not just allow television 24 stations to provide more air time to independent 25 producers and allow for programming that is fitting to StenoTran 287 1 one of the program Types A to E and let producers show 2 their freedom of expression and creativity to their 3 ethnic audience. 4 1186 With the increasingly multicultural 5 and multilingual nature of Canada's population, I 6 believe that specific policy is needed and this should 7 include policy for foreign distribution via satellite 8 that apply for services via cable. This service should 9 be allowed, I believe, but it should have the same 10 percentage as ethnic stations now have to comply with. 11 I believe that 60/40 would be reasonable. There is 12 need in our own community to have this particular, 13 including foreign satellite, viewed in people's home 14 through cable and through my program I have 11,000 15 signatures on a petition which I could provide to the 16 CRTC, which they would like to have cable access to 17 RTPI. However, they do want to keep their programming 18 and the only fair way of doing that is to be able to 19 have a percentage in the same manner that the ethnic 20 stations have and I do believe that 60/40 is right. 21 1187 This is the only way of protecting 22 the community clubs, organizations that my program 23 services. This is the only way that the ethnic groups 24 can continue to reflect Canada's national, regional and 25 local experience through their television programming. StenoTran 288 1 Allowing 100 per cent of any foreign service to be 2 aired on cable is establishing cultural media ghettos 3 within Canada. 4 1188 The Canadian Broadcasting Act states, 5 and I am sure you know of it, that the Canadian 6 broadcasting system should serve the needs and 7 interests and reflect the circumstances and aspirations 8 of Canadian men, women and children, including equal 9 rights, the logistic duality and multicultural and 10 multiracial nature of Canadian society. 11 1189 In phrasing so, I would like to know 12 if ethnic television stations and program producers 13 were able to access at least 10 per cent of the public 14 revenues that CBC receives we would all be a lot 15 happier as ethnic program producers. 16 1190 If the CBC would have to follow the 17 same policy that ethnic program stations and producers 18 follow I am sure that the CBC would not be quite happy 19 with what they would be asked to do, but they would be 20 providing a Canadian national network by at least 21 reflecting exactly what Canadian culture is all about, 22 diversity. I believe that our own Canadian national 23 network should be the first one to do so and perhaps 24 provide and be asked to provide a lot more of the Type 25 E programming that the CRTC specifies. StenoTran 289 1 1191 Yes, mainstream radio and television 2 stations should be encouraged to broadcast Type E 3 programming, but let's start first of all with that 4 particular one, the CBC. If CBC's programming can 5 reflect the true nature and the true diversity of 6 Canada, then perhaps we would all be a lot more 7 educated and a lot more ethically cultural and more 8 ethnic Canadians. 9 1192 I believe that I am at the end of it. 10 I would just like to let you know that I want to thank, 11 first of all, CHIN RADIO. Mr. Lombardi is here, 12 junior, and CityTV. I will be providing a written 13 brief which will go in depth into the questions in the 14 review policy, as well as some letters from viewers and 15 sponsors of the program. 16 1193 Thank you. 17 1194 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 18 much, Ms Pedro. I want to ask you one quick question 19 of clarification before we take a short break. 20 1195 If I understood you correctly, you 21 said that you are in favour of foreign services being 22 licensed into the Canadian market, but you think they 23 should be subject to the same 60/40 requirement? 24 1196 MS PEDRO: Yes. 25 1197 THE CHAIRPERSON: Considering that we StenoTran 290 1 don't really have jurisdiction, not that we don't 2 really, we don't have jurisdiction -- 3 1198 MS PEDRO: You should. 4 1199 THE CHAIRPERSON: I was trying to be 5 soft about it. We don't have jurisdiction over foreign 6 services. How would you suggest that we enforce the 7 60/40 split? 8 1200 MS PEDRO: Do you have jurisdiction 9 over what is broadcast in Canada? 10 1201 THE CHAIRPERSON: If we authorize a 11 service for distribution on a distribution undertaking 12 that's one thing, but we can't control their content. 13 1202 MS PEDRO: I am not asking you to 14 control their content. I am asking that within the 24 15 hours or within the one week that 60 per cent of that 16 be the foreign service and that 40 per cent of it be 17 production, Canadian production in the ethnic 18 programming language. 19 1203 THE CHAIRPERSON: I see. You are 20 suggesting someone apply for -- 21 1204 MS PEDRO: Absolutely. 22 1205 THE CHAIRPERSON: -- a channel. 23 1206 MS PEDRO: Absolutely. 24 1207 THE CHAIRPERSON: Which would 25 incorporate 60 per cent of the programming which StenoTran 291 1 appears on the foreign service and 40 per cent would be 2 Canadian? 3 1208 MS PEDRO: Absolutely. 4 1209 THE CHAIRPERSON: That's an 5 interesting suggestion. I am glad I asked. 6 1210 Thank you. 7 1211 MS PEDRO: You are welcome. 8 1212 THE CHAIRPERSON: We are going to 9 take a 15-minute break. We will be back at twenty-five 10 minutes after nine. 11 --- Short recess at 2105 / Courte suspension à 2105 12 --- Upon resuming at 2125 / Reprise à 2125 13 1213 THE CHAIRPERSON: Ladies and 14 gentlemen, I would ask you to take your seats and we 15 will get a move on or shake a leg, as the saying goes. 16 1214 We are on the home stretch. I 17 believe we have 11 or 12 parties yet to make their 18 presentations. So once again I would encourage you 19 kindly to keep your remarks to 10 minutes, so that we 20 can get through them by a reasonable hour. 21 1215 Madam Secretary. 22 1216 MS RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is Mr. 23 Bob Cousins. 24 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 25 1217 MR. COUSINS: Thank you, ladies and StenoTran 292 1 gentlemen from the CRTC. 2 1218 I will try to be as brief as I can, 3 although after doing this for nearly two decades it 4 really needs a whole lot more time, but I will take 5 advantage of the opportunity to make a written 6 submission, along with some of the comments I will make 7 right here. 8 1219 There is a rather bulky performer in 9 Nashville. His name is Johnny Russell, who is quite 10 funny too, is a great songwriter and he says "Can 11 everybody see me all right?" I think you can and I 12 believe you can hear me all right. 13 1220 I am very grateful for this 14 opportunity to speak directly to each of you this 15 evening on ethnic programming and to offer some 16 constructive suggestions on how to improve the delivery 17 of this essential service. Under the present 18 legislation there is room for abuse and unfairness can 19 be practised. The owner of a multicultural licence can 20 take any unilateral action he wishes and the 21 producer/host has little or no protection in the Act or 22 the legislation. 23 1221 Often you have an air tenure at the 24 whim of the broadcaster or the holder of the licence. 25 The rights of the producer should be enshrined in new StenoTran 293 1 legislation. Each producer should become a member of 2 the board of directors. Radio and television station 3 policies would more reflect the wishes and the needs of 4 the producers and the communities that they serve. 5 1222 In most cases the producers sell the 6 time that they have acquired from the licence holder to 7 advertisers in a community at large. There are many 8 obstacles to the successful pursuit of the advertising 9 dollar in this very competitive marketplace. I am 10 going to list five. 11 1223 The station has a sales force of its 12 own in competition with the producers. Unfair. 13 1224 B - stations limit the marketplace. 14 National advertisers, for instance, belong to the 15 station. 16 1225 C - multicultural radio does not 17 subscribe to the BBM I understand, or the three 18 stations that I have been at, which means that tool is 19 not available to the producer to help him make a sale. 20 1226 D, or No. 4, most advertisers who can 21 fit the format and afford the producer the revenue to 22 pay the costs are represented by often hostile 23 advertising agencies. Agencies who, if you succeed in 24 getting to them, insist on loads of demographic 25 material that only the big commercial radio station has StenoTran 294 1 the resources to provide -- a very serious handicap. 2 Try getting Labatt's or Molson's or somebody like that 3 on side for your radio program. You've got to have 4 more clout than this Newfie boy. 5 1227 No. 5. Often business firms will buy 6 advertising only from the ethnic radio show of their 7 own cultural community or heritage. There is nothing 8 fair or just about the above. The station should not 9 have a sales force that competes against the producer. 10 Both parties should be seen to be pursuing the same 11 goals. As it now stands, the producer is always the 12 loser. 13 1228 A fellow told me one time, if you 14 want to give advice to a soldier, walk in a soldier's 15 shoes. Well, for nearly 20 years in multicultural 16 radio in Ontario I have been there. Even though I got 17 a shower there's still some blood on me. 18 1229 The station should not limit the 19 scope of the producer's sales reach, as is stated in B 20 above. 21 1230 Looking at item C and D, it is clear 22 that the multiculture station should subscribe to the 23 BBM and give the producer all the tools he needs to 24 reach his potential advertising customer. 25 1231 Not all groups are strong enough to StenoTran 295 1 support their own radio and television programs 2 financially and there are many reasons for this. In my 3 case, much of my audience is drawn from the Atlantic 4 basin. They are employees, not employers. They have 5 lived in the Atlantic region for generations; Irish, 6 English, Welsh, French and Scottish in the main. 7 1232 Unlike the newer Canadians, most of 8 the Atlantic ex-patriots merely down the road to get a 9 job in their own country, while the newer Canadian came 10 into the country to make a new home, a new life and he 11 determined that he should create a job, a business and 12 be a captain of industry, trade or commerce, not an 13 employee subject to the ups and downs of the economy 14 and the whim of an employer. Often these newer 15 Canadians have certain financial advantages from 16 government programs and funding such as multicultural 17 funding. 18 1233 So the Atlantic programmer, the 19 producer or the host, does not have the business base 20 to draw on for revenues. A fair-minded subsidy must be 21 arrived at to make up for this inequality. 22 1234 There should be some options here to 23 overcome this handicap. Consider several cable 24 television channels that could pool their revenue and 25 share the 24-hour day among major groups, such as the StenoTran 296 1 Portuguese and the black community, the Chinese. I 2 think the Italians are well looked after. Cable 3 television channels that could pool their revenue and 4 share the 24-hour day would be something for the CRTC 5 to give serious consideration to. 6 1235 The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation 7 should make some of its radio time available for shows 8 such as mine. A block of time at CBC television and 9 Newsworld should be directed to accept shows such as 10 mine. So far the doors are shut tight. 11 1236 By the way, I don't want to sound 12 like I'm a whiner. I'm a pretty positive guy. I would 13 tell you a few jokes if we had time, but we don't have 14 time. I know you want to recognize a Newfie in heaven 15 when you get there. That's the fellow who keeps on 16 saying, "Boys, when are we going home?" You are 17 allowed to laugh here, you know. 18 1237 But anyway, there are some problems 19 with this and we can fix it if we are men and women of 20 goodwill. 21 1238 The ethnic broadcasting should not be 22 limited to the new or the third language. Think how 23 unfair that is. Don't you think the Irish still yearn 24 for the songs of home? For your information by the 25 way, per capita there are more Irish in New Brunswick StenoTran 297 1 than any other province. In Newfoundland there is 2 about 40 per cent. The songs of home, mother Ireland. 3 1239 And don't these ex-patriots of Nova 4 Scotia, living in Mississauga or Brampton, don't they 5 hear the songs of the bagpipes? They don't hear them 6 on CHUM. They don't hear them on CFRB. They don't 7 hear them on 1430-CHKT. When I was on there I used to 8 say that stood for "coaster hearts keep ticking". 9 1240 Don't you think they want to hear the 10 songs of their childhood? How many of you heard the 11 song "A Mother's Love is a Blessing"? That's what our 12 cultural makeup is all about. "Kelly's Mountain" by 13 Harold MacIntyre, "The Ghost of Bras d'or," "The Song 14 for the Myra". We get to hear that once in a while 15 because a child of the CBC, Anne Murray, became a great 16 American star and we get to hear Annie sing "The Song 17 for the Myra". 18 1241 What about the fiddle tunes of Don 19 Messer and the Islanders? Some of you know what 20 happened to that show, don't you. Some very, very 21 clever fellows at the CBC in Toronto years ago decided 22 to axe the most popular television show of all time. 23 That same mentality existed a couple of years ago when 24 country music, which was born in the USA of the songs 25 of the Irish and the Scottish and the English and the StenoTran 298 1 Cajuns that we sent away from the Atlantic region back 2 in the Seven Years' War to the southern USA, the CBC 3 saw fit to dump the Tommy Hunter Show. That's country 4 music -- music of the people. Then recently they got 5 another virus and they got rid of the Rita McNeil Show. 6 1242 Think about John Alan Cameron of Cape 7 Breton and Harry Hibbs of Newfoundland. Both of them 8 can be considered the two that led to the rise of 9 interest in all things Celtic in Toronto. It took more 10 than 30 years for the songs in the bars and the clubs 11 of Toronto to convince the boys back home that Toronto 12 and Canada would be receptive if they polished up the 13 music of their forefathers. And now you hear the 14 Rankins a fair bit, the Barragh MacNeil's, Natalie 15 McMaster, Ashley McIsaac. That's just the tip of the 16 iceberg. The vast majority of those you could have 17 heard them on CIAO radio one time when I had a voice 18 there. 19 1243 You could have heard them one time 20 late Sunday night on 1250-CHWO when I had a voice 21 there, and you could have heard them, four straight 22 hours, the Breakfast Club on 1430-CHKT, which stands 23 for "coaster hearts keep ticking," with Bob the 24 Codfish, yours truly, but that voice is silent. 25 1244 Yes, sir, the sad truth is that only StenoTran 299 1 a fraction of that good stuff has seen the light of 2 day. The advantage seems to be given to the new 3 Canadian. See the title of this review -- it says 4 right here, "CRTC to review its policy on third 5 language". As the song says, "when will they ever 6 learn up in Ottawa". 7 1245 I hope I am moving along as quickly 8 as i can. 9 1246 THE CHAIRPERSON: Maybe one more 10 minute. 11 1247 MR. COUSINS: By golly, have I used 12 up nine? 13 1248 THE CHAIRPERSON: It goes really 14 fast. 15 1249 MR. COUSINS: This is a letter from 16 Jean Gilbert. She's at the Memorial Hospital in 17 Brampton. She wrote this when she learned that I 18 couldn't promote their lobster festival. It's a 19 charity group, the Lions Club and so on. She says, 20 "It's sad to think that immigrants are given more 21 consideration than the population who has been born and 22 bred in Canada, spend their whole lives making Canada, 23 Ontario and Brampton a better place to live in and also 24 a place where many of these immigrants come to reside 25 and reap the benefits of what Canadians have worked so StenoTran 300 1 hard to achieve over many years." She is saying that 2 there is no fair play. 3 1250 Back to funding again. Consider a 4 new lottery whose proceeds could go to fund 5 multiculture radio. I prefer the term "public radio" 6 as I think the other word, "multiculture" covers the 7 services for newer Canadians only. It's also divisive 8 and counterproductive. 9 1251 Don't leave it to the private 10 broadcaster as he is not interested in the music of the 11 people, folk music. You have the broadcaster fighting 12 you now over the 35 per cent Cancon, and now since 13 especially many radio stations are calling themselves 14 new country, little or nothing gets played that would 15 be considered traditional country or folk or Cajun or 16 Celtic or coaster music. Where is Stompin' Tom and Ned 17 Landry, Gene MacLellan of PEI. Does anybody here -- 18 can you name one of the two songs that that man wrote? 19 A great songwriter from PEI. He wrote "Put Your Hand 20 in the Hand of the Man". He wrote "Snowbird" for Annie 21 Murray and much more, but we don't hear him on private 22 radio. We don't hear him on multicultural radio. 23 1252 No. Too ethnic they tell you. Will 24 they play the songs of Roy Payne, the most prolific 25 songwriter of Newfoundland? No. Wrote a great song, StenoTran 301 1 "The Little Boats of Newfoundland". Newfoundlanders 2 cry, and others too, when they listen to the words of 3 that song. Too ethnic they tell you. 4 1253 I am going to do a couple more notes 5 here until you cut me off. Radio should offer songs, 6 not only in your personal collection and, more 7 importantly, it passes on the history and the tradition 8 of music and in our case that of the coast. Without 9 hearing those so-called classics on the radio, our 10 youth will never know what came before. 11 1254 We all lose by not having access to 12 the vast treasury of our music greats. How can we have 13 a culture as vibrant and as rich as the U.S. if the 14 Canadian broadcaster continues to feel he has no place 15 in the scheme of developing a star system? 16 1255 As it stands, neither the private nor 17 public broadcaster is doing the job that the 18 Broadcasting Act calls for. Carefully consider some 19 priorities; encourage the new Canadians to do 20 productions of music in Canada. Now much of the 21 revenue from the sums paid to SOCAN are going out of 22 the country to foreign writers and producers, and in 23 the case of my former radio station, 1430-CHKT, I would 24 assume that more than 70 per cent appears to be foreign 25 content. My show was 99 per cent Canadian Cancon. StenoTran 302 1 1256 Factor does not work for the producer 2 of public radio shows. Open up Factor and give it the 3 funds to assist producers such as us. 4 1257 Producers need bridge financing at 5 low interest rates. Small sums of money will keep 6 small but essential producers on the air. Politicians 7 must pay more than lip service. At least assist 8 producers who seek their help and that goes for the 9 CRTC too. There have been walls of silence or nearly 10 that. I have experienced that int he past seven 11 months. I have no time to make strong comments or 12 quotes here, but I can. 13 1258 Now, the needs of my audience are 14 being neglected. No news from the coast, no music, no 15 information on events, nothing on the Music Awards show 16 in its eleventh year, the four Atlantic provinces have 17 a great awards show and they are meeting in St. John's 18 on February 11 to the 14. Nobody in my community knows 19 about that. 20 1259 I will just take one more moment, if 21 I may. This year on March 31 will mark the fiftieth 22 anniversary of Newfoundland's entry into Confederation. 23 Now, there was a time when some Canadians felt that 24 Canada should be united from ocean unto ocean and the 25 dream and the vision of John A. Macdonald was realized StenoTran 303 1 in 1949. My province -- my native province, I stand 2 for all four and Ontario as well and Canada, and I am a 3 citizen of the world in its broadest respect. I grew 4 up with Americans on an Air Force base in Newfoundland. 5 The world was at my doorstep and I have no malice 6 toward any man or woman here or elsewhere. 7 1260 But let me just say this, that you 8 people are unaware that we are calling this in 9 Newfoundland this year "Soirée '99," but if this voice 10 were allowed to be on a multicultural radio station in 11 Greater Toronto Area, you would hear about it. 12 1261 Silent too is the government in 13 Ottawa. You don't read it in the mainstream 14 newspapers, Newfoundland celebrating the fact that it's 15 50 years as the tenth province, and what has been going 16 on in multicultural radio has been going on for the 17 past 50 years with the east coast of Canada, raped, 18 pillaged, exploited, huge factory ships vacuum up the 19 renewable resource, the cod and the rest of it in the 20 Atlantic region. 21 1262 THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Cousins, I am 22 really sorry to interrupt you, but you have had about 23 20 minutes now. 24 1263 MR. COUSINS: I would like 30 seconds 25 more, if I may, and I thank you. StenoTran 304 1 1264 THE CHAIRPERSON: I would like to 2 thank you for your views and I would encourage you to 3 put any other comments that you would like to make on 4 the public record in writing. 5 1265 MR. COUSINS: One final comment, if I 6 may, Madam Chairman. 7 1266 I have a brochure from Nashville. 8 They have a Grand Ole Opry, they call it, on WSM radio, 9 celebrating about 75 years in existence right now. 10 That radio station and that institution led to country 11 music becoming the biggest format music in the world. 12 All of us here tonight understand how valuable radio 13 and a radio show is. I stand to work with anybody and 14 everybody and it is most regrettable that you will not 15 hear "the codfish" on Saturday morning. That voice has 16 been silenced. Perhaps you could help us get a voice 17 back again. 18 1267 I just want to also say that I saw in 19 the paper that the gates are being opened to help the 20 black community get a radio licence. I endorse and 21 support that. 22 1268 Thank you so much. Even though I am 23 not on the air, I still feel I am a part of the 24 community that I sit among and I have the greatest, 25 most profound respect for you. Let's fix it because StenoTran 305 1 Canada will be in trouble otherwise. 2 1269 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 3 much, Mr. Cousins. 4 1270 MR. COUSINS: Thank you. 5 1271 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 6 1272 MS RHÉAUME: The next speaker is Mr. 7 Calvin Wong, Regional Director for Fairchild Media. 8 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 9 1273 MR. WONG: Good evening, 10 Commissioners, and members of the public. I am Calvin 11 Wong, Regional Director of Fairchild Media Group. 12 1274 Fairchild welcomes the opportunity to 13 participate in the Commission's review of third 14 language and ethnic broadcasting policy. We appreciate 15 in particular the Commission's efforts to reach out to 16 individuals within many multicultural communities in 17 Canada and to gain an appreciation of the role ethnic 18 broadcasting plays in the lives of Canadians. 19 1275 We believe the current policy has 20 been critical in the development of distinctive ethnic 21 service and remains a key factor to our success. 22 1276 The Fairchild Media Group has a 23 significant commitment to the Canadian ethnic 24 broadcasting, with interests in four radio stations, as 25 well as our specialty television service, Fairchild StenoTran 306 1 Television and Talentvision. 2 1277 Fairchild first entered ethnic radio 3 broadcasting in 1992, when we were issued a licence for 4 CJVB-AM Vancouver. Since then, Fairchild has expanded 5 through the acquisition of the AM-1430, which our 6 friend Bob Cousins just referred to, in Toronto and new 7 FM undertakings in Calgary and Vancouver, which we 8 operate in partnership with the OK Radio Group. 9 1278 In addition, we produce a total of 29 10 hours of Chinese programs per week on CIRV-FM in 11 Toronto. Recently, we received authority to utilize 12 the SCMO of our Vancouver FM to provide a 13 Korean-language service. 14 1279 In keeping with the current policy 15 framework, these stations each face the challenge of 16 serving a wide range of cultural groups in a 17 significant number of different languages. For 18 example, 14 cultural groups in a minimum of 15 19 different languages are served by our Toronto AM 20 station. We are proud of the tremendous variety of 21 programming these stations provide to a broad 22 cross-section of communities, including Cambodians, 23 Jamaicans, Greeks, Malay, Laotian, Persian, Indians, 24 Vietnamese and Korean. 25 1280 To further advance multiethnic StenoTran 307 1 broadcasting, Fairchild Radio recently established a 2 scholarship at Ryerson University School of 3 Broadcasting, aimed at promoting cross-cultural 4 understanding and expanding the presence of Canadians 5 from different ethnic backgrounds in the media. 6 1281 At the television side, in 1993 we 7 acquired the assets of Chinavision, a national Chinese 8 language specialty undertaking. Today Fairchild 9 Television continues to serve the Canadian Chinese 10 community, broadcasting primarily in Cantonese. About 11 300,000 subscribers currently receive the service via 12 cable, direct-to-home satellite, or in the more limited 13 areas by MDS. 14 1282 In addition to Fairchild Television, 15 we also operate Talentvision, a regional specialty 16 undertaking acquired in 1993 which serves over 14,000 17 British Columbia subscribers. 18 1283 Talentvision focuses on the fast 19 growing Mandarin speaking population and also carries 20 programs in Korean and Vietnamese. 21 1284 Fairchild Television and Talentvision 22 provide a mix of Canadian and foreign programming, with 23 news and information produced in our Toronto and 24 Vancouver studios. 25 1285 We also produce and show the Chinese StenoTran 308 1 dubbed version of English TV programs, such as CTV's 2 W5, CBC's Venture and TVO's Inquiring Minds during our 3 prime time. We are also pleased to report that 4 increasingly these Canadian productions are in demand 5 as exports to other countries. For example, Time Line 6 magazine, a weekly public affairs magazine prime story, 7 a documentary series profiling Chinese Canadians and 8 our language/teaching programs are shown in Hong Kong 9 now and will be soon seen in southern China. 10 1286 Both through our programming and as a 11 corporate citizen Fairchild has made a concerted effort 12 to be connected to the communities we serve and, in 13 turn, to connect our viewers to each other and to other 14 Canadians. To illustrate the above statement, I would 15 like to draw your attention to the busy schedule of our 16 staff in the next two weeks. 17 1287 First, we will be hosting a total of 18 12 community events around town to celebrate the 19 Chinese New Year. 20 1288 Secondly, we are conducting the 21 winter clothing drive for the Salvation Army. With our 22 last record was a total of 88 tons of clothing 23 collected in a month's time, and at the same time our 24 news department is mapping out a strategy for the 25 coverage of the federal budget and the forthcoming StenoTran 309 1 Ontario election. 2 1289 Our experience in both radio and 3 television has confirmed the important role ethnic 4 service can play in the Canadian broadcasting system by 5 strengthening the multicultural fabric of our 6 community. We firmly believe there continues to be a 7 need for distinct ethnic policy and that the 8 fine-tuning may as part of this review should build on 9 the strong framework already in place. 10 1290 We appreciate that public 11 consultation is not a forum for a detailed analysis. 12 We will, therefore, highlight on only a few key points. 13 1291 On the radio side, Fairchild believes 14 the current Canadian and ethnic content level remains 15 appropriate. However, licensees must be provided with 16 greater flexibility in the scheduling of programming. 17 This flexibility will allow market demand to regulate 18 program schedules, while the existing safeguards 19 continue to ensure the quantity and the diversity of 20 ethnic programming. 21 1292 We appreciate the need for the 22 diversity of ethnic programming, but asking a more 23 popular language group to subsidize other language 24 groups is not helpful to the development of ethnic 25 radio. StenoTran 310 1 1293 We are very happy to play our part in 2 the family of Canadian broadcasters, but the burden of 3 supporting service to very small groups should not 4 solely rest on the shoulders of ethnic broadcasters. 5 1294 In television, Fairchild has a number 6 of recommendations. First, we believe ethnic service 7 should be afforded the same access to distribution as 8 the Canadian specialty service -- in other words, upon 9 the earlier of September 1, 1999 or the introduction of 10 digital cable. Fairchild Television continues to 11 struggle to obtain cable distribution. 12 1295 In October 1997, thanks to the quick 13 and decisive intervention of the Commission, many 14 Fairchild subscribers in Toronto and Vancouver were 15 spared from losing the service. 16 1296 While we are available in Toronto, 17 Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary and Victoria, the service 18 is not carried in Montreal, Winnipeg, Ottawa, the 19 Atlantic provinces or in many of the growing 20 communities around Toronto, such as Oakville, 21 Newmarket, Whitby, Ajax. 22 1297 Secondly, Fairchild supports the 23 existing policy which refuses to add a foreign service 24 to the eligible list, which would be competitive with a 25 Canadian specialty licence. This continued protection StenoTran 311 1 is vital to the growth of distinctive ethnic 2 programming. 3 1298 Finally, Fairchild does not believe 4 the licensing of a national ethnic network is 5 consistent with the evolving lists of the Canadian 6 ethnic communities, particularly in a digital 7 environment. Like all Canadians, ethnic viewers want 8 to assess a variety of programming in the language of 9 their choice, at times to suit their daily schedule. A 10 national multiethnic network would not only fail to 11 meet these needs, but would threaten the viability of 12 the specialty services that do. 13 1299 However, should the Commission see 14 fit to licence such a network, we believe its condition 15 of licence must be structured to protect existing third 16 language specialty services. 17 1300 In closing, I would like to say 18 something from my own personal experience. I studied 19 mass communications in university before I came to 20 Canada. I worked for 18 years in radio and television 21 broadcasting in Hong Kong. Right now I am very pleased 22 to say that because of the current policy framework I 23 am able to employ every bit of my experience and 24 knowledge in my work with Fairchild to contribute to 25 the development of the Canadian media industry. StenoTran 312 1 1301 I have been to places in the U.S., 2 Australia and Europe where large ethnic Chinese 3 populations do exist. I am proud to report that Canada 4 produces the highest quality and the largest quantity 5 of Chinese television and radio programs outside of 6 Asia. I hope through this policy review we can work to 7 further improve our system, that such a rewarding 8 experience can be offered to those who are now working 9 and those who will be joining the growing family of 10 Canadian ethnic broadcasters. 11 1302 I look forward to listening to the 12 remaining submissions and would be pleased to answer 13 any questions that you may have. 14 1303 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 15 much, Mr. Wong. 16 1304 I don't think we have any questions, 17 but that's an interesting piece of information that you 18 shared with us about the amount of Chinese programming 19 that is being done in Canada. 20 1305 Thank you for bringing that to our 21 attention. 22 1306 MR. WONG: Thank you. 23 1307 MS RHÉAUME: The next speaker is 24 Hanny Hassan. 25 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION StenoTran 313 1 1308 MR. HASSAN: Thank you. 2 1309 Good evening, Commissioners. Just a 3 word about my affiliations. I am the President of the 4 Council of the Muslim Community of Canada, a member 5 organization of the Canadian Ethnocultural Council, an 6 umbrella organization of some communities across 7 Canada. I am the Past President of the Ontario 8 Advisory Council on Multiculturalism and Citizenship, 9 in which capacity I was responsible for providing 10 policy advice to the Government of Ontario on matters 11 of multiculturalism and citizenship. And, finally, I 12 should tell you that I am on the Community Advisory 13 Committee of CFMT-TV. 14 1310 I applaud your endurance and 15 attention to everyone tonight and since I have provided 16 written copies of my text I will skip some of the text 17 in the interests of trying to move things along. 18 1311 Many of the speakers tonight have 19 spoken about the multicultural characteristic of 20 Canada, both in its legislative and constitutional 21 ways. I won't go into the details. However, it is our 22 position that all agencies and institutions of 23 government based on the constitutional legislation are 24 obligated to formulate policies and implement systems 25 that are consistent with the multicultural character of StenoTran 314 1 Canada. 2 1312 Specifically, the broadcast system 3 has under its particular legislation been directed to 4 address the diverse needs of Canada's population. I 5 might just add here that I take some exception to the 6 comments of Mr. Cousins. I digress here. While he may 7 have some particular grievances with which I am quite 8 sympathetic relating to others outside of the 9 ethno-cultural communities, it is in fact a policy of 10 Canada for some time to recognize the distinctiveness 11 of this society and the diversity. In my capacity as 12 the President of the Ontario Advisory Council, in fact 13 our inclusive definition of multiculturalism in fact 14 included English and French-speaking people, people of 15 those origins and the native community. We speak 16 tonight of diversity and not simply of the ethnic 17 composition of Canada. 18 1313 In terms of the demographic changes 19 that have occurred in Canada over the last 35 years or 20 so, it has not only increased the number of people 21 within the ethnocultural population, but also its 22 diversity. Long-term demographic needs, including 23 Canada's relatively low birthrate and aging population, 24 indicate that Canada will require immigrants for 25 workforce development and for the support of our social StenoTran 315 1 service programs. Similar demographic trends exist in 2 Asia -- in Europe. Consequently, new immigrants will 3 continue to come from a variety of countries, 4 representing diverse linguistic, racial, ethnic and 5 religious communities. 6 1314 Consequently, in addition to the 7 legislative responsibility, there is a need for 8 broadcast systems to be representative of the diverse 9 population and that need will increase in the future. 10 1315 The CRTC has recognized this in its 11 1985 Public Notice and it wrote in that document 12 extensively on its position on multiculturalism. 13 Parenthetically, one wonders why the announcement on 14 this policy review, however, has been entitled "Third 15 Language and Ethnic Programming" rather than 16 "Programming for Canada's Linguistic and Cultural 17 Diversity" as the policy has been called. 18 1316 In my view, the new nomenclature 19 marginalizes those whose first language is not either 20 French or English and who come from other ethnocultural 21 communities. 22 1317 The Commission intends to examine the 23 relevance of its ethnic broadcasting policy in the 24 light of increasing availability of ethnocultural 25 services from sources other than ethnic stations. It StenoTran 316 1 seems to me that it is self-evident that the CRTC is 2 obligated to continue to develop its policies with 3 respect to linguistic and cultural diversity. In 4 answer to questions in section 29(2) of the Public 5 Notice, the answer is a resounding no. The needs 6 cannot be met without a policy. Even if the needs 7 could be met, the CRTC has a responsibility to 8 formulate a policy. 9 1318 The availability of alternative or 10 additional services does not diminish either the 11 responsibility or the need for a policy, just as the 12 maturation of French-language programs would not 13 diminish or distinguish the need for a policy in that 14 regard. In fact, in the clause of the Broadcasting Act 15 referring to cultural diversity, the multicultural and 16 multiracial responsibilities are contained and have the 17 same footing as the need to reflect the linguistic 18 duality of Canada. 19 1319 Our objective should not be to 20 determine the need for such a policy, but to develop 21 this content and the mechanisms that will be used to 22 implement the policy. 23 1320 It is imperative that a distinct 24 framework be responsive to Canada's linguistic and 25 cultural communities. The absence of a policy and StenoTran 317 1 regulations would relegate the multilingual and 2 multicultural communities to the margins of the 3 broadcast system. 4 1321 Market forces cannot be expected to 5 be responsive to these needs. The sparseness of the 6 multicultural population across the country and the 7 emergence of new ethnocultural communities mitigate 8 against equitable and accessible broadcasting services. 9 Even though a significant portion of the population are 10 located in major cities, the need is even more acute in 11 the small and remote communities where there is neither 12 the concentration or the resources to address market 13 concerns. 14 1322 While these gaps can perhaps be 15 filled by other services, this would inequitably 16 exclude this programming from the mainstream broadcast 17 services and there are costs that the audience would 18 incur associated with most of those alternatives. 19 Those are both barriers to access. 20 1323 It seems to me that there are two 21 possible approaches to this concern. One approach is 22 to mandate that all broadcast services carry a minimum 23 amount of multilingual and multicultural programming. 24 Alternatively, a network of stations, whose reach would 25 include towns, villages and rural Canada, could be StenoTran 318 1 developed to provide multilingual and multicultural 2 programming across Canada. The first approach would 3 result in broad, but relatively superficial coverage 4 and would not be supportive of the development of 5 superior and professional capabilities. It would have 6 the advantage of representation within the mainstream 7 system, of the diversity of the Canadian population. 8 1324 The alternative of a network would 9 provide the depth to provide exceptional programs, 10 sharing of resources, intercultural co-operation and so 11 forth. Its disadvantage is that it may not be watched 12 by others. 13 1325 In a previous Public Notice this 14 year, Additional National Television networks - a 15 Report to the the CRTC deferred 16 consideration of a national multilingual television 17 network pending the results of this particular policy 18 review. 19 1326 We believe that the needs of the 20 multilingual and multicultural communities can best be 21 met with the establishment of a national television 22 network, responsive to this audience. 23 1327 The CRTC has requested comments on 24 several programming areas. We believe that priority 25 should be given to the Canadian experience -- StenoTran 319 1 programming areas b), c), d) and e. Those are the 2 programming areas identified in section 29 of the 3 Public notice as distinct from the category Types A to 4 E are the ones that we are referring to that should 5 have priority. Programming area e), while important, 6 should not have the same priority. 7 1328 We believe that another priority 8 programming area, not included, should be the fostering 9 of a Canadian variant of the native cultures. Culture 10 is not static. Both in Canada and in the homeland, 11 culture continues to evolve, frequently in different 12 directions. The experience of the people of Quebec and 13 of the Acadians are examples of communities that have 14 developed differently from their origins and from each 15 other. The broadcasting system should provide access 16 to this type of expression. 17 1329 Programming area c) should also 18 promote -- which would promote cross-cultural 19 understanding. This is important since many immigrants 20 and refugees come to Canada from areas of conflict. 21 Additionally, the programming should foster 22 inter-cultural co-operation. Many groups share common 23 values and traditions. By working together small 24 communities may, collectively, have the resources and 25 the audience to meet their combined needs. StenoTran 320 1 1330 With respect to the program types in 2 the current policy, we believe that a modest credit 3 should be given to multilingual/multicultural stations 4 to encourage their production of this type of 5 programming -- in terms of Type E programming I mean 6 here. The credit should be structured so that it does 7 not significantly impact the station's commitments with 8 respect to Types A to D. 9 1331 In addition, we believe that all 10 other radio and television stations have a 11 responsibility to provide programming in one of the 12 official languages depicting Canada's cultural, racial 13 and religious diversity through services that are 14 multicultural, educational, informational, 15 cross-cultural and inter-cultural in nature. We 16 believe that these stations should also be required to 17 carry some Type E programming. 18 1332 In the existing CRTC policy it is 19 acknowledged the substantial representations made 20 regarding balance, fair portrayal and stereotyping. We 21 concur that it would be onerous to expect the CRTC to 22 closely monitor all on-air programming. However, the 23 reliance of the Commission on complaints from the 24 public is unacceptable, since it is reactive and there 25 is no way to redress the damage done by unacceptable StenoTran 321 1 programs. All of the remedies suggested by the CRTC in 2 the current policy respond to complaints and do not 3 seek to proactively address the problem. 4 1333 Previous submissions, as noted in the 5 1985 policy, recommended the establishment of a CRTC 6 Consultative Committee and a National Advisory 7 Committee. We are not aware, but do not believe that 8 these committees have been established and, if so, we 9 wonder about their effectiveness. 10 1334 As described in Public Notice CRTC 11 1985-139, the suggested mandate of the National 12 Advisory Committee is described and I will just skip 13 that since you have that on record. 14 1335 In addition to the objectives that 15 are listed, we believe that there is also an 16 opportunity for both broadcasters and the multicultural 17 community to educate each other through working 18 together on these committees. We consequently support 19 the creation of a National Advisory Committee. 20 1336 The Public notice alludes to the 21 subsidization of multilingual programming by mainstream 22 programming. We do not understand why this would be 23 surprising. Canada has evolved a complex system of 24 subsidies to support all manner of programs. Canada's 25 equalization payments, for example, allow the federal StenoTran 322 1 government to ensure an equitable distribution of 2 resources across the provinces. Our social services 3 sector is also an example of how these resources have 4 subsidized those who use the resources of those who 5 have by subsidizing those who do not. 6 1337 In fact, it is doubtful that many of 7 our mainstream cultural industries could prosper 8 without external support. If market forces were 9 allowed to determine the direction of our cultural 10 development in the increasingly global world we would 11 all become American. 12 1338 The current debate about split-run 13 magazines and cultural protection in trade matters 14 illustrates Canada's commitment to cultural sovereignty 15 and the need to take measures to ensure the continuing 16 growth of our cultural industry. This includes 17 multilingual and multicultural components of our 18 society. 19 1339 The CRTC should ensure that 20 appropriate mechanisms are available to ensure that 21 financial resources are available to foster the 22 development of programming reflective of Canada's 23 reality. This cannot be left to market forces. 24 1340 Thank you. 25 1341 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very StenoTran 323 1 much, Mr. Hassan. 2 1342 MS RHÉAUME: The next presentation 3 will be by Ms Claudia Lopez. 4 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 5 1343 MS LOPEZ: Good evening everyone. My 6 name is Claudia Lopez. I am here to support the 7 assistance, permanence and promotion of third language 8 and ethnic programming and, more specifically, of 9 Telelatino Network. 10 1344 I am a psychotherapist at the Barbra 11 Schlifer Clinic, which is a non-profit government 12 organization that provides free legal counselling and 13 cultural interpretation services to female survivors of 14 child sexual abuse, incest, sexual assault and spousal 15 or partner abuse. 16 1345 On many occasions and for at least 17 three years I have been invited to Telelatino to 18 educate, inform, provide resources and support to the 19 Latin American community across Canada on issue of 20 sexual abuse, incest, partner abuse and violence in 21 general. For the purpose of this consultation I would 22 like to highlight some of the important advantages that 23 I think are in having the Telelatino Network services 24 offered to the Spanish-speaking community. 25 1346 The first and, in my view, the most StenoTran 324 1 important advantage is that through its programs the 2 Telelatino Network actively participates and engages 3 int he prevention, education and elimination of child 4 sexual abuse, incest and physical abuse of women, 5 children, the elderly in the Latin community and in 6 Canadian society at large. 7 1347 The second advantage is that through 8 its programs Telelatino helps the Spanish-speaking 9 community to connect and become less isolated. In 10 other words, Telelatino contributes to the development 11 of community participation and integration. 12 1348 Another advantage is that many people 13 who are being abused in Canada are isolated because 14 Spanish is the first and only language of 15 communication. Their families, community and support 16 systems are outside Canada and in some cases they live 17 in very isolated geographical areas here in Canada. 18 These people, unfortunately, as not only being abused, 19 but have no access to the legal, financial, 20 psychological and community resources that the Canadian 21 government provides to help women, children and ethnic 22 groups like the Latin community to be free from abuse. 23 1349 Telelatino Network has been and is an 24 excellent agent of change because it has been 25 educating, informing, supporting and providing remedies StenoTran 325 1 to the Latin American community on issues of abuse. 2 1350 Another advantage I believe is that 3 the issues, responses and alternatives that are offered 4 in relation to the problems of abuse help these people 5 who see the programs to identify their own issues and 6 to apply similar strategies and solutions by analogy. 7 1351 The last advantage that I want to 8 highlight relates to the saving of financial, physical 9 and human resources to the taxpayers of Canada. Child 10 sexual abuse, incest, sexual assault and spousal abuse 11 are all social problems that require our urgent 12 attention. 13 1352 The statistics indicate that a price 14 to taxpayers of providing treatment, legal and recovery 15 alternatives to one child sexual abuse survivor is of 16 $200,000. 17 1353 As Telelatino deals with prevention 18 and elimination of abuse, it also helps our community 19 to deal with financial problems, like drug addiction, 20 alcoholism, prostitution and crime to name some of the 21 consequences of abuse, but also it is important because 22 it helps Canadian taxpayers to save a lot of money, 23 time and resources by dealing with issues that create 24 great social disruption as is the case of violence and 25 abuse. StenoTran 326 1 1354 Thank you very much, Madam Chairman, 2 for allowing me to support the Telelatino Network and 3 the promotion of third language and ethnic programming 4 on behalf of the Barbra Schlifer Clinic and the Latin 5 community. 6 1355 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 7 much, Ms Lopez. 8 1356 MS RHÉAUME: Our next speaker will be 9 Mr. Kiumars Rezvanifar of KVC Communications Group. 10 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 11 1357 MR. REZVANIFAR: Good evening. 12 1358 My name is Kiumars Rezvanifar. I 13 have been an independent producer for two weekly 14 television programs for the iranian community in 15 Ontario for the past seven years. i would like to give 16 you a very brief background about the community for 17 which I serve. 18 1359 The nearly 100,000 members of the 19 Iranian community in Ontario have arrived in Canada 20 shortly after the political turmoil and the Islamic 21 revolution of 1979, exactly 20 years ago. It was the 22 first major immigration in the Iranian's 2,500 years of 23 history. Unlike most immigration that is caused by 24 economical reasons, oppression and political changes 25 and its effect on the Iranian society sparked the StenoTran 327 1 Iranian immigration. Thus, the educated and 2 "well-to-do" class of people left Iran destined to go 3 to Europe and North America. 4 1360 Internationally, because of the 5 American melting pot policy and Canada's policy of 6 multiculturalism, many immigrants chose Canada over the 7 United States and even over European counties. The 8 United Nations selection of Canada as, "The Best 9 Country to Live In," has also increased Canada's 10 popularity among immigrants. 11 1361 As we know, one of the main reasons 12 for this selection by the UN has been the multicultural 13 acceptance of the Canadian society and the respect that 14 Canada offers to the immigrants' cultural heritage, a 15 treatment that you cannot find in any part of the 16 world. The multicultural aspect of Canada has been 17 growing rapidly, and with it brings challenges and 18 opportunities which requires special attention and 19 consideration. 20 1362 As the immigrants arrive and settle 21 in Canada, many face problems and conflicts within the 22 new society, and if ignored it could lead to serious 23 problems. To address and solve these problems, Canada 24 requires a strong means of communication. The most 25 important part of this communication is language. In StenoTran 328 1 many communities, the two official languages of English 2 and French have proven to be inappropriate due to the 3 fact most of these immigrants speak neither of the two 4 languages. This is a situation where a comfort 5 language is essential to reach into these communities, 6 a language that they are familiar with and in which 7 they trust. 8 1363 The Iranian community's population in 9 Ontario has grown from 30,000 in 1990 to around 100,000 10 at the present time. The fact is this number is 11 growing rapidly by the arrival of every immigrant each 12 day. 13 1364 The two television programs that I 14 produce provide our community and our viewers with 15 entertainment and educational segments about Iran's 16 history and culture. But our main objectives are to 17 inform them about the Canadian society, history, 18 geography, lifestyle, the political system and its 19 issues. 20 1365 Through Farsi television programming 21 we encourage our viewers to think of themselves as 22 Canadians and promote them to participate in society 23 and contribute to Canada. 24 1366 Along with segments in Farsi about 25 the Canadian political system, we have invited many StenoTran 329 1 Members of Parliament to our programs and who have 2 spoken about Canada and we have invited our viewers to 3 participate in the political system. I am pleased to 4 announce that at the present time we have two Iranian 5 candidates in the upcoming election. 6 1367 Not only does Farsi television 7 programming inform the viewers about the Canadian 8 election system, tax programs, history and education, 9 it also exposes them to many opportunities provided by 10 the Canadian government. These opportunities could 11 easily integrate them into the Canadian society and 12 help them to become an active part of it. 13 1368 Through our Farsi language television 14 programming we have achieved many of these objectives 15 that we could not achieve using the English language. 16 1369 Two years ago, by the invitation of 17 the Canadian Soccer Federation, the Iranian national 18 soccer team came to Canada for a friendly match in 19 Toronto. It was a day that will remain in our hearts 20 and minds for a long time. During a two-month campaign 21 on our television programs on CFMT and CHEX we promoted 22 the Canadian values in our community and within 23 ourselves in such a way that the respect and admiration 24 towards the Canadian soccer team even surprised the 25 Canadian soccer players and the authorities. Many of StenoTran 330 1 the Iranian spectators were waving both the Iranian and 2 Canadian flags. The positive impact and warm reception 3 that was felt by the Canadian soccer team reflect the 4 major role our television programs on CFMT played 5 before the match. 6 1370 Through this multicultural television 7 system of programming, each community gets to know each 8 other and understand and respect each other's customs 9 and way of life and culture. This is an extremely 10 important aspect in a multicultural society. Our Farsi 11 television programs are not limited to the Iranian 12 audience, but viewers from the Greek, Italian, Indian 13 Afghani and Arabic communities have also shown interest 14 in parts of our programming. We also have their 15 advertising in our programs as well. 16 1371 The global, political and economic 17 conflicts and changes have made Canada to be home to 18 many ethnic communities. These communities were not in 19 existence in Canada in the 1980s. 20 1372 The flood of refugees and immigrants 21 to Canada indicates that Canada is and will be an ideal 22 destination for immigration. The change in the 23 immigration laws and policies could only slow the 24 process and numbers, but could not stop the arrival of 25 new immigrants each day. StenoTran 331 1 1373 Canada has to be ready to help 2 newcomers adopt easily and quickly. Multicultural 3 television programming has proven to be one of the 4 effective and key instruments in this process. As the 5 multicultural aspect of Canada grows, Canada should 6 increase and expand the role and operation of its 7 multicultural television programming. 8 1374 Multicultural television programming 9 has come a long way from being a part of a community or 10 access channel to its present status of being an 11 independent program on major television stations such 12 as CFMT in Toronto. 13 1375 We need to look forward into the near 14 future and try to view multicultural television 15 programming at the network level, where it could reach 16 and be effective to everyone and everywhere across 17 Canada. In a multicultural society, obviously English 18 and French are not the only means of effective 19 communication. 20 1376 Thank you. 21 1377 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 22 much, Mr. Rezvanifar. 23 1378 MS RHÉAUME: Our next presenter is Ms 24 Zelda Young. 25 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION StenoTran 332 1 1379 MS YOUNG: Thank you very much. 2 Thank you for the opportunity of addressing the CRTC 3 Commissioners and Commission. 4 1380 My name is Zelda Young. I am a 5 Canadian-born Jew, producer and host of Shalom Jewish 6 programs on CHIN-AM and FM radio for the past 22 years 7 and also for seven years a part of the CHIN television 8 family on CityTV as producer and host of a Canadian 9 Jewish talk program called Tapestry. 10 1381 My late father, Sam Yochun, (ph) met 11 Johnny Lombardi in the 1950s at then CKFH, which was 12 Foster Hewitt's sports station. My father's English 13 was not at its best and he was made fun of by many 14 other Canadian radio producers of non-ethnic 15 backgrounds. He didn't seem to mind though. He was 16 fiercely proud to be doing what he loved producing, the 17 unheard of at that time, a Canadian Jewish program. 18 1382 That's where Johnny Lombardi and my 19 dad's paths crossed. They both had major dreams of one 20 day having a multicultural radio station. 21 1383 After several years of being not only 22 at CKFH, but at other radio stations that allowed them 23 the opportunity for several years to have the show on, 24 they would say, "We no longer want the program," and on 25 my dad would go to the next radio station. StenoTran 333 1 1384 Anyway, with Johnny Lombardi's 2 perseverance and hard work, in 1966 CHIN RADIO was 3 born. My dad was the very first producer onboard. I 4 remember because I grew up with the Lombardi family 5 basically. 6 1385 It was difficult, to say the least, 7 to get Canadian Jews to get involved in their heritage. 8 They felt that they must support Israel, both through 9 funding and in other ways. But my dad worked very hard 10 and he changed the perceptions of Canadian Jews that we 11 must have a voice as well in Canadian multicultural 12 radio through CHIN RADIO. 13 1386 In 1976 I joined the ranks of 14 producers on CHIN and, unfortunately, in 1979 my dad 15 passed away. 16 1387 It was really a struggle to get 17 advertisers and Canadian Jewish organizations to share 18 their awareness with our community, but we did it and 19 now every major Jewish organization and group shares 20 their news, views and other things with the community 21 on our Jewish programs on CHIN AM and FM and I have 22 submitted many letters of their support. 23 1388 I am very proud to be a part of the 24 CHIN family of broadcasters and have the chance to 25 share my community's wealth of knowledge and expertise StenoTran 334 1 with people of all ethnic and Canadian backgrounds. 2 1389 Johnny Lombardi has been both a 3 mentor and a friend to me and has encouraged me every 4 step of my journey. I thank you, the CRTC and CHIN 5 RADIO, for affording the multicultural community 6 opportunity to build this wonderful Canadian mosaic 7 which helps make it a more diverse society and a vital 8 link to the global community in the next millennium. 9 1390 Thank you very much. 10 1391 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 11 much, Ms Young. 12 1392 MS RHÉAUME: Our next speaker is Mr. 13 Frank Alvarez, President of CIRV Radio. 14 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 15 1393 MR. ALVAREZ: Good evening, Madam 16 Chairperson, members of the Commission and Commission 17 and staff. 18 1394 My name is Frank Alvarez. I am the 19 president of CIRV Radio International. I am here today 20 speaking as President of CIRV-FM and also on behalf of 21 the different language produces of CIRV. 22 1395 CIRV-FM is an ethnic stations 23 broadcasting here in Toronto. From our modest 24 beginnings as a low-power station licensed by this 25 Commission in 1986, we have grown to become a major StenoTran 335 1 provider of ethnic programming to the residents of the 2 Greater Toronto C.M.A. Despite our power limitations, 3 we currently broadcast at 1,000 watts, we serve 12 4 different language groups from Whitby in the east to 5 Aurora in the north to Burlington in the west. 6 1396 In a way, our station is a result of 7 the Commission's 1985 ethnic broadcasting policy as we 8 were licensed the year after its publication. We feel 9 that the policy has served the ethnic communities, 10 particularly in large markets very well, and we are 11 here today to do several things. 12 1397 We would like to give you a brief 13 synopsis of the changes we have witnessed in the 14 communities we serve. 15 1398 We would also like to suggest the 16 areas of your policy that need to be updated to reflect 17 these changes. 18 1399 We would like and would be pleased to 19 reply to any questions you might have about the 20 operations of an ethnic broadcasting radio station or 21 any other matters that you feel relevant, and we wanted 22 to hear what the stakeholders who were present here 23 today and yesterday had to say so that we could build 24 upon your consultations in preparing our written brief 25 for March 4. StenoTran 336 1 1400 Bur first let me note the successes 2 of the policy and the principles that we feel your 3 decision resulting from this process should be based 4 on. Your policy has resulted in an explosion of ethnic 5 stations in this city. We now have six full time radio 6 stations whose signals are receivable in the GTA. 7 Between us, we serve over 50 groups in over 50 8 languages with the largest groups, such as italians, 9 Portuguese, Chinese and the South Asian communities 10 receiving over 100 hours of radio programming per week. 11 1401 At the same time, much smaller sized 12 linguistic and cultural communities such as the 13 Filipinos, the Japanese, Malays, Slovenians, 14 Bulgarians, Lithuanians, Thais, Arabs, Iranians and 15 other groups whose size would not be able to support a 16 stand alone station, or who could not afford to 17 purchase time on conventional stations receiving from a 18 half hour to several hours of programming per week. 19 And, of course, there are a great number of groups 20 receiving somewhere between these figures. 21 1402 Furthermore, there are a number of 22 SCMO services providing 24 hours a day services to 23 specific single language communities. 24 1403 In television, we have an ethnic 25 television station here in Toronto providing services StenoTran 337 1 to third-language communities here, as well as 2 elsewhere in Ontario. We have specialty services that 3 provide programs in Italian, Spanish, Chinese and South 4 Asian languages and a licensed service, not yet 5 launched, which will provide Greek-language programs. 6 1404 It is important for the Commission to 7 understand the real need for access through the cable 8 companies for new ethnic TV services. 9 1405 What good is it to be issued a 10 licence whether to a Greek or portuguese broadcaster, 11 if we have no means of delivering that mandate? 12 1406 We firmly believe that the key answer 13 is cable access. 14 1407 We also support that Canadians should 15 have the first opportunity to apply for new unilingual 16 TV ethnic services. As well, an opportunity should be 17 given to foreign television services, but only with 18 Canadian partners. 19 1408 A number of us also provide a few 20 hours a week of programming to mainstream television 21 stations. This proliferation of services happened for 22 two reasons -- the dynamism of the producers and 23 broadcasters who wish to serve their communities and 24 the friendly policy and licensing framework put in 25 place by the Commission. StenoTran 338 1 1409 In terms of radio, the combination of 2 limiting entry to what the market can support while 3 insisting on a minimum contribution from each ethnic 4 broadcaster has meant that we can afford to extend 5 service to the communities that are not yet big enough 6 or economically well enough established to be able to 7 support programming. At the same time, you have not 8 limited access to program sources unreasonably. 9 1410 This has also meant that we can 10 provide local programming of relevance to people living 11 here in Toronto, as well as more general sports, music 12 and information programming. 13 1411 We believe that the fundamental 14 principles underpinning your regulation of our industry 15 should remain: 16 1412 Definition of what an ethnic program 17 and station are; 18 1413 Requirement for minimum levels of 19 service from ethnic broadcasters; 20 1414 Limits on how much ethnic programming 21 mainstream broadcasters can provide in markets; 22 1415 Giving a first chance to Canadian 23 entrepreneurs to provide services of relevance to 24 Canadians of non-English, non-French and non-aboriginal 25 origin. StenoTran 339 1 1416 The changing face of ethnic Toronto. 2 My comments are not based on an analysis of Stats 3 Canada data, but rather on our day-to-day personal 4 experience in serving the ethnic communities of the 5 Toronto area. The ethnic communities have changed 6 dramatically since the Commission introduce its policy 7 in 1985. These changes have taken a number of forms: 8 1417 The numbers, as the Commission notes 9 in its Public Notice, one in three Torontonians speak a 10 language other than English or French at home. 11 1418 The changing source of immigration, 12 fewer and fewer of the new immigrants coming to Canada 13 are from what were the traditional countries of origin 14 in Europe, and many more are coming from Africa, Asia 15 South and Central America and the Caribbean. These 16 communities are arriving in large numbers and many of 17 them are seeking service in their languages. In 18 addition, many of them have distinctive cultures, but 19 speak English as a first language. 20 1419 What were originally outsider 21 communities are now mainstream, the Italian, 22 Portuguese, Chinese and other immigrant communities are 23 now mainstream, with Cabinet Ministers, leaders of 24 commerce, arts, sports and other fields of endeavour 25 coming from these groups. Many of these communities StenoTran 340 1 are now in their third and fourth generations in 2 Canada. Their needs are significantly different than 3 those of their grandparents and parents. While many 4 listen and watch mainstream radio and television 5 exclusively, they also want to maintain contact with 6 their roots. 7 1420 Ethnic groups are moving to the 8 suburbs, while the original patterns of immigration saw 9 new Canadians congregate in the downtown areas and 10 create the Little Polands in the Roncesvales area, 11 Little Italy on College Street and St. Clair and 12 Chinatown on Dundas Street. 13 1421 As these groups have become 14 established, they have moved to suburbs, such as 15 Woodbridge, Richmond hill, Markham, Mississauga and 16 Malton. In many cases, they do not receive our signal 17 as well as they were accustomed to when they lived in 18 downtown Toronto. 19 1422 With the establishment of significant 20 populations of ethnic groups have followed the 21 businesses and the arts, I doubt if there are many, if 22 any, cuisines from around the world that cannot be 23 found somewhere in a Toronto restaurant. And the 24 groups have brought their music, dance and other 25 cultural pursuits here. StenoTran 341 1 1423 We have a number of excellent singers 2 and musicians that we recorded here at CIRV. This is 3 the latest edition, and there are a few small ethnic 4 recording companies and distributors. But they remain 5 at a local level and the quality of production is 6 uneven. In addition, many of the recordings by 7 Canadians of ethnic origin do not meet the MAPL 8 criteria and may need to be revised. 9 1424 We also believe that a catalogue with 10 Canadian recordings made by the ethnic communities 11 should be circulated among the different ethnic 12 broadcasters among the different markets. 13 1425 Implications for the ethnic policy. 14 These changes have resulted in a much more diverse 15 grouping of ethnic communities, with not only 16 differences of ethnic origin between communities, but 17 generational, gender and many other differences within 18 the communities. There are a variety of needs to be 19 served out there that we think will require changes in 20 the Commission's ethnic policy. 21 1426 Requirements for an ethnic station in 22 the larger urban communities: There are a number of 23 things that should be explored here. 24 1427 If a radio station is going to 25 benefit from the market protection afforded an ethnic StenoTran 342 1 station on format, should it not do more than 60 per 2 cent ethnic programming, at least in a major market 3 like Toronto? In practice, we believe that Toronto 4 ethnic stations -- Toronto area ethnic stations are 5 over 90 per cent ethnic programs. 6 1428 It is not clear what purpose the 7 stations that program between 15 per cent and 40 per 8 cent serve, nor is it clear why mainstream radio 9 stations in these markets should be able to do 15 per 10 cent ethnic programming. 11 1429 At the same time, to ensure that 12 smaller groups receive a minimal level of service, we 13 need to consider what the minimum number of groups that 14 an ethnic radio station should serve should be. 15 1430 Conversely, should we not drop 16 minimum requirements for Types A and B programs/ More 17 and more, we feel that bilingual programming mixed with 18 English aimed at the specific needs of a community can 19 serve the needs of our communities in two ways: It can 20 serve the younger generations who are still interested 21 in their roots, but whose mastery of the language is 22 less, and it can serve those with poor English to 23 develop their language skills. 24 1431 At the same time, we need new and 25 innovative ways to reach the communities that have StenoTran 343 1 migrated out to the suburbs and those in smaller 2 centres. 3 1432 Perhaps we should revisit the limit 4 of 15 per cent ethnic programs in these communities. 5 It is difficult to see what purpose is served by 6 requiring applications for going beyond 15 per cent. 7 On the other hand, perhaps higher thresholds level 8 after which requirements to serve multiple communities 9 could be considered. 10 1433 We may want to consider 11 re-broadcasters and partial re-broadcasters to reach 12 out to some of those communities. Once digital radio 13 arrives, single frequency network might be a way to do 14 this. 15 1434 We may wish to consider a 16 redefinition of Canadian content for purposes of ethnic 17 music recordings, as well as means to give some 18 recognition for the many local programs we do as 19 Canadian content. Of course, that we base this need on 20 our own experience as a broadcaster in the Toronto 21 area, we cannot speak about the needs of the ethnic 22 stations elsewhere, namely in Vancouver, Montreal, 23 Edmonton or Winnipeg. 24 1435 A redefinition of Canadian content 25 would consequently result in the increase of Canadian StenoTran 344 1 content, at which time we would urge the Commission to 2 phase in such an increase. 3 1436 We do not intend to make specific 4 recommendations at this time, but rather indicate some 5 general areas of concern and where we might be able to 6 improve the services made available to the communities 7 that we serve. We intend to work with the Canadian 8 Association of Ethnic Broadcasters to develop a written 9 brief that we will file with you on March 4. 10 1437 Thank you for the opportunity to meet 11 with you today. I would be more than pleased to answer 12 any questions that you may wish to pose. Thank you 13 very much. 14 1438 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 15 much, Mr. Alvarez. You will forgive us if we don't ask 16 any questions, but we still have six parties to go. 17 1439 MR. ALVAREZ: Thank you so much. 18 1440 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. 19 1441 MS RHÉAUME: The next presenter is 20 Mr. Farook Hossain Kahn. 21 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 22 1442 MR. KAHN: Good evening, 23 Commissioners, ladies and gentlemen. 24 1443 Thank you very much for giving me the 25 opportunity to express our views regarding the third StenoTran 345 1 language and community programming on TV media. 2 1444 My name is Farook Hossain Kahn. I am 3 the president of the Bangladesh Awami League of Canada 4 and Director of the Canada Bangladesh Chamber of 5 Commerce. Both the organizations are working actively 6 with the Bangladeshi communities and the other South 7 Asian communities to improve the cultural heritage and 8 economic growth. 9 1445 I am also the past Director and 10 Treasurer of the Coalition of Agencies Serving South 11 Asians, which represents more than 60 communities in 12 the Greater Toronto Area. 13 1446 I have directed and produced a few 14 Bengali community programs on the then Maclean Hunter 15 Cable TV and on the Rogers Community 10. 16 1447 We are very, very glad that Canada 17 has a framework to protect its culture. We are also 18 very glad that Canada has developed and articulated a 19 multicultural policy. Multiple cultures are part of 20 the Canadian culture. Multiculture programming and 21 broadcasting needs to be cherished, protected and 22 nurtured. 23 1448 We believe that the regulatory 24 environment and the multicultural broadcasting policy 25 continue to protect the local ethnic multilingual StenoTran 346 1 national broadcasters such as ATN, the Asian Television 2 Network. ATN has to thrive and ATN has to reflect the 3 local communities such as ours in its programming. We 4 see local artists, local talents and local 5 entertainment industry emerging in the multicultural 6 context with and through ATN. 7 1449 Canadian content is as important 8 within the multicultural context as it is in the 9 mainstream context. This mean that no licences be 10 granted where ethnic programming does not reflect local 11 Canadian ethic communities where Canadian artists, 12 actors, technicians, are not part of such productions. 13 1450 It is very important to have a media 14 like the Asian Television network for the South Asian 15 communities and our heartiest thanks to the CRTC for 16 granting a licence to ATN to broadcast the ethnic 17 programs which is helping us to keep and promote our 18 own culture identity in this multicultural society. 19 1451 Asian Television network is the only 20 channel in Canada which is bridging our cultural gap. 21 Since the South Asian community is the second largest 22 ethnic group in Greater Toronto after the Chines, the 23 ATN has become a very popular channel among the South 24 Asian communities. Though the countries in South Asia, 25 such as Bangladesh, india, pakistan and Sri Lanka have StenoTran 347 1 different languages, but most of the population either 2 speaks or understands the Hindi, Urdu and Bengali 3 languages. As a result, the people in our South Asian 4 communities in Canada are equally enjoying the programs 5 aired by the ATN. 6 1452 On the occasion of Bangladeshi 7 Victory Day we have produced a two and a half hour 8 Bengali program on our language and culture with the 9 help and broadcasted by Asian Television network, which 10 was viewed and enjoyed by a large number of 11 Bangladeshis living in Canada. At present we are 12 working on two more projects with ATN. We have a lot 13 of talented people in our community who can create 14 community programs based on our culture and religion. 15 I believe it will lessen our dependability on foreign 16 films and other programs. Moreover, it will create 17 more jobs in the country and we will be able to build 18 our own cultural and religious foundation for our 19 future generations. 20 1453 We are urging the CRTC that full 21 access should be available to multicultural programming 22 for the third languages. It is our case that this 23 means full access to Asian Television network on cable 24 and other distribution forms in a meaningful way. At 25 this time our community does not grudge the $15 StenoTran 348 1 subscription fee. It does, however, object to having 2 to invest $700 in a satellite or to pay an additional 3 $10 per month for a digital box. It is especially hard 4 for low-income people and seniors in our Bangladeshi 5 community -- the people who need ATN most. 6 1454 Moreover, due to the extra cost 7 involved with ATN, not only the viewers are restricted, 8 but the advertisers also do not advertise to the tune 9 and scale that would normally attract millions of 10 viewers throughout Canada. 11 1455 If the third-language channel like 12 ATN channel is accessible from coast to coast, I 13 strongly believe that it will tremendously improve the 14 cultural sensitivity and will bridge the cultural gap. 15 Religious and cultural upbringing starts early in life. 16 Most Asian women being homemakers constitute a very 17 large potential viewer for ATN, which is now being 18 constrained due to the extra cost. 19 1456 Most importantly, our Bangladeshi 20 children are also deprived from the opportunity to 21 entrenching our cultural and religious roots into their 22 minds. 23 1457 Thank you again for giving me the 24 opportunity. 25 1458 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you so much StenoTran 349 1 for hanging in there and presenting your views to us at 2 this late hour. 3 1459 MR. KAHN: Thank you. 4 1460 MS RHÉAUME: Our next presenter is Ms 5 Betty Skoutakis. Betty Skoutakis. 6 1461 Then we will go to Ms Estela Cuenca. 7 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 8 1462 MS CUENCA: Good evening. 9 1463 My name is Estela Cuenca. My field 10 is education. I work as a program co-ordinator of 11 volunteers who work with children and youth promoting 12 academic excellence among Hispanic youth. I also work 13 in a music program fostering the love of music in 14 children and youth. 15 1464 I am a member of the board of 16 directors of Open Experience Theatre, an organization 17 founded in 1979 which has presented numerous 18 award-winning productions, both for the theatre and 19 television and has been a catalyst within the Hispanic 20 community for the production of many festivals, 21 artistic exhibitions and more. 22 1465 I am here perhaps not as prepared as 23 I would to be because I found out very late about these 24 consultations, and although I knew that I might not 25 have enough time to prepare myself, I felt that it was StenoTran 350 1 important that our voices be heard. So I met with a 2 group of people who have serious concerns about 3 Canadian broadcasting and the lack of a true reflection 4 of our multicultural and multilingual reality in what 5 is broadcast on Canadian radio and television. 6 1466 We know that there are a lot of 7 technical considerations, and that we are not experts 8 in all the legislation that exists. But we do know 9 that, in spite of all the well intended legislation, 10 and the many policies which are written for the various 11 departments and agencies. The bottom line is that we, 12 the ethnics, as we are called, contribute our fair 13 share to the economy, the development and the 14 well-being of this country, yet we are blatantly 15 non-existent when it comes to the reflection of 16 Canadian society in the radio, television and new media 17 which is seen at home and abroad. And this is not 18 right. 19 1467 The following are some of the issues 20 which came up in our discussions and which we submit 21 for your consideration. 22 1468 Multiculturalism is the reality of 23 Canada. Multiculturalism is not silent. We 24 communicate with one another in our original languages, 25 but also in the official languages. Unfortunately, StenoTran 351 1 Canada's Official Languages Act has been used to 2 perpetuate discrimination and favouritism. This is 3 unfair and must be rectified. 4 1469 A national multilingual network to be 5 broadcast on basic cable, so that the ethnics don't 6 have to pay extra for service in their language, is 7 more than due and necessary. 8 1470 Since third-language productions are 9 not only essential to the expression and communication 10 of our multicultural society, but can also be exported 11 to larger international markets, we would like to see 12 support given to the productions which could be done in 13 third languages. These would not only serve and 14 reflect the communities for which are made, but can 15 then be exported to larger markets. We could and 16 should try to get support from the Department of 17 Industry, Trade and Commerce. 18 1471 Also, in order to comply with the 19 Official Languages Act, versioning could be done to 20 English and/or French. 21 1472 The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation 22 Act and the CRTC's policy on the CBC should be amended 23 to ensure that Canada's diversity, including our 24 multicultural, multiracial and multilingual reality are 25 fairly and equitably reflected in our programming. StenoTran 352 1 After all, it is our public broadcasting service paid 2 by all and not only anglo/franco Canadians. 3 1473 The future digital compression 4 channel will open doors for more channels. We should 5 prepare ourselves to deal with this. By ensuring that 6 Canadian content, especially that produced in third 7 languages are so appealing as to retain the viewership 8 and consumption of Canadians and internationals. 9 1474 Canadian-made productions and 10 Canadian broadcasting are vital to our culture, 11 industry and sovereignty and must take precedence over 12 imported or foreign productions and broadcasting. 13 1475 New media is also a very important 14 consideration. Soon, although many are doing it now, 15 who are not satisfied with information and programming 16 in their own languages are turning to the Internet for 17 information and entertainment. As Canadians we must be 18 in the avant guard to provide the necessary services 19 and even better to export high-quality information and 20 programming. However, access is the domain of the 21 wealthier segments of Canada and assistance must be 22 provided so that the new media is accessible to all. 23 1476 There is very serious concern that 24 the CRTC has allowed the market to dictate what happens 25 in the broadcasting industry. The weaker and StenoTran 353 1 under-represented communities will be further 2 debilitated unless mechanisms are established to ensure 3 that access and opportunities are available for all. 4 1477 Also, it is very important that 5 productions not only reflect the ethnic communities as 6 ghettos and/or stories of the past. They be fresh, 7 current and vibrant, with stories of what is happening 8 today, promoting cross-cultural understanding. 9 1478 It is fundamental that the CRTC 10 comprehends and acts to safeguard, nurture and protect 11 the intrinsic value of all of our various heritage 12 languages as vehicles of cultural identity, retention 13 of family and cultural values, pride in our roots, for 14 the fostering of international relations. Third 15 language and ethnic broadcasting are necessary to 16 Canada as a nation. 17 1479 I will be remiss not to express our 18 apprehension for the Commission's lack of understanding 19 of the importance of third language and ethnic 20 broadcasting as it was demonstrated by the short and 21 poor notification of these consultations and the short 22 time allotted for the presentations. 23 1480 It is important that the 24 Commissioners of the CRTC better educate themselves as 25 to the importance and impact of our multicultural, StenoTran 354 1 multiracial, multilingual reality in Canada and act 2 according. 3 1481 It is important that the 4 Commissioners keep an open perspective and vision which 5 should help them to distinguish between the needs of 6 the people of Canada, which are the majority from the 7 interests of the broadcasters who will be making 8 polished and well-prepared submissions. The CRTC must 9 be always cognizant that its mandate is to serve the 10 people of Canada and not the interest of the few. 11 1482 All broadcasters, be they public or 12 private, must assume their responsibility for ensuring 13 that Canada's diversity is fairly and equitably 14 reflected in their programming. 15 1483 The CRTC must require cable companies 16 to provide community programming. It used to be 17 better, but has been gradually disappearing. 18 1484 There is a lot of ethnic or 19 third-language programming on mainstream stations 20 through the brokerage. The CRTC must review where the 21 communities gain or become disempowered by this 22 arrangement. Who controls the content? Does the fact 23 that they include foreign materials in a program which 24 is packaged and broadcast in Canada in a third language 25 make it Canadian content? StenoTran 355 1 1485 The CRTC should establish the proper 2 mechanisms to ensure that third language and ethnic 3 productions have fair and equitable access to funding 4 for the production of programs which tell their 5 stories, which are also Canadian stories. 6 1486 Third language or ethnic productions 7 which lack proper funding perpetuate the myth that they 8 are low quality and, therefore, not worth producing. 9 1487 Most of the government funding 10 agencies grant funding to productions which care 11 produced in either of the official languages. This is 12 highly discriminatory and should be changed. Why 13 should only a fraction of our society receive funding 14 when all taxpayers contribute to the programs. 15 1488 Certification of Canadian content 16 should be given to productions which accurately reflect 17 Canada's demographic reality and it should be a 18 condition for the granting or renewal of licences of 19 funding. This would ensure that all productions will 20 take us into consideration and seek our writers, 21 authors, musicians, actors, et cetera. 22 1489 The CRTC should require cable 23 companies to reactivate community channels across the 24 country and provide access especially to the weaker 25 communities. StenoTran 356 1 1490 The CRTC should encourage and promote 2 the portability of programs so that a program which is 3 produced in a specific city could be shared by also 4 being broadcast in other cities across Canada. This 5 allows for the cost of production to be split between 6 the different cities that receive the program while 7 also allowing wider viewership. 8 1491 CBC radio has four channels. They 9 broadcast only in the official languages. Is that 10 fair? Is that representative? Most ethnic 11 communities, third language, should be given access to 12 these stations. 13 1492 Canadian content must be expanded to 14 promote intercultural understanding. 15 1493 The Broadcasting Act has been in 16 place for many years. For many years it has also made 17 reference to the retention and enhancement of our 18 cultural diversity, but the reality of the 19 implementation has been very poor. We hope that these 20 consultations are not just another exercise in 21 futility, but that the Commission comes out with an 22 integrational policy which has teeth and which will 23 ensure that the demographic reality of Canada is fairly 24 and equitably reflected in all of our radio, television 25 and new media in Canada. StenoTran 357 1 1494 In conclusion, I would like to 2 reinforce that I have the voice of the Hispanic youth, 3 hoping that the outcome of this event will bring new 4 opportunities to them promoting in this manner young 5 writers, young musicians and all Hispanic actors, and 6 that with Canadians are represented on the basis of 7 equity and equality. These positive changes are 8 required to be seen on television and radio. 9 1495 Thank you very much for allowing me 10 to be here tonight. I am almost the last person. 11 Good-bye. 12 1496 THE CHAIRPERSON: Sorry to disappoint 13 you, Ms Cuenca, there are still four more to go. 14 1497 But thank you for being with us and 15 thank you to you also for staying with us to such a 16 late hour. 17 1498 Madam Secretary. 18 1499 MS RHÉAUME: The next presenters are 19 Mr. Spyros Bourdorkis and Ms Vicky Karpeta. Mr. Spyros 20 Bourdorkis. 21 1500 We will then go to Ms Krystyna 22 Piotrowski and Ms Isabella Walicht. 23 1501 THE CHAIRPERSON: Please push -- oh, 24 not on the record. 25 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION StenoTran 358 1 1502 THE CHAIRPERSON: We want you here 2 and welcome. You can begin any time you are ready. I 3 am very sorry for all of the confusion. It was 4 confusing for us too because the response was so 5 overwhelming that we ended up having to add first one 6 day and then a second day. We were only scheduled to 7 be here one day. It's a good sign that there is that 8 much interest. 9 1503 COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: And like the 10 doors of TVOntario we are voice activated. As soon as 11 you start we open up and we listen. 12 1504 THE CHAIRPERSON: Press the white 13 button. 14 1505 MS PIOTROWSKI: I will probably 15 start. My name is Krystyna Piotrowski. Me and 16 Isabella, we are here on behalf of Polish Radio Program 17 and Teen Radio. My husband, Jack Piotrowski, he is a 18 producer. Me and Isabella, we are the hostesses of the 19 program. 20 1506 So, I would like to give a voice to 21 Isabella because, as you saw, that she is a great 22 speaker. 23 1507 MS WALICHT: Not really, but give me 24 the microphone and I stay on it. 25 1508 Anyway, as Krystyna said, I will be StenoTran 359 1 speaking mainly on behalf of the Polish program 2 Epichine (ph). You have heard all the general comments 3 from almost everybody during the day. I will 4 concentrate on the Polish program. 5 1509 The Polish program last year 6 celebrated its tenth anniversary. The program is 7 called Radio Polonia. Now, how qualified are the 8 producers and how popular was this program? It is 9 sufficient to say that the air time has increased from 10 the original half an hour into three hours daily 11 broadcasting from 11:00 a.m. until 2:00 p.m. You can 12 judge the popularity of the program by the tremendous 13 support among the advertisers and the responses that we 14 get from the listening audience, and the audience 15 represents all age groups. Also, it is a cross-section 16 of almost all professions and fields of interest. 17 1510 Last year on April Fool's Day, 18 Krystyna made a joke. She said that the program of 19 Radio Polonia is going to be limited to only a half an 20 hour daily. It was meant as an April Fool's joke. 21 What happened, people took it seriously. All the lines 22 became instantly busy. Everybody was calling with 23 people venting frustration and anger on the air and 24 comments ranging from blaming political, economic and 25 anti-Polish sources, to outright donations of cash and StenoTran 360 1 establishing a foundation to keep Radio Polonia on the 2 air. Some even suggesting buying CHIN or another 3 station and broadcasting in Polish 24-hours a day. 4 1511 You should have listened to those 5 people. They were really serious. I don't know how 6 Krystyna felt afterwards when she had to admit that it 7 was a joke. However, even after that the people kept 8 flooding the studio with calls and saying that in the 9 future it could have happened. We always have some 10 unforeseen circumstances and a situation like that 11 could really happen in the future. 12 1512 Now, I do some live interviews, 13 interpretations and comments on the air in Polish and 14 in English as well. I can testify to the extreme 15 dedication of the producers, Richard and Krystyna 16 Piotrowski to the program and the listening audience. 17 Numerously, I have witnessed all the phone line lights 18 blinking simultaneously as soon as the listeners are 19 told the magic words, "call the studio". 20 1513 Even before anybody mentions the 21 studio number, all the lights are on; all the lines are 22 busy. So, I suppose it must be the most popular number 23 with listeners of Polish program, Radio Polonia. 24 1514 Even though they have another number 25 which is available to call and leave the messages, the StenoTran 361 1 voice mail over there is always full and requires 2 emptying every three hours. I suppose it shows you the 3 popularity of the program. 4 1515 Why is it so successful? I suppose 5 it is because it popularized the Polish language, 6 culture, news and live interviews. You can see people 7 from all walks of life that come to the studio and the 8 same thing can be said about the people who are being 9 interviewed. 10 1516 I myself remember interviewing many 11 people from Poland and people of Polish descent from 12 all over the world. For example, I interviewed Bobby 13 Vinton who sold some 4 million records and at some time 14 was more popular than Elvis Presley. When Bobby's 15 career appeared to be ending, he wrote a song that 16 became an international hit, My Melody of Love, which I 17 suppose lots of people know, parts of which are sung in 18 Polish and it was inspired by his mother who is Polish. 19 1517 The success of this Bobby Vinton is 20 an inspiration to all and above all you can contribute 21 to all success if you appreciate your own native 22 language or language of your ancestors. 23 1518 Another example of inspiration is, 24 for example, success at the World Judo Championship. 25 So now here we have an artist and now I am going into StenoTran 362 1 sports. That world championship took place in Hamilton 2 and it was some three years ago. The Polish judo team 3 was interviewed by me and Krystyna and they seemed a 4 little bit down because of all the pressure and 5 inability to believe in their own talents. 6 1519 However, they stated to us that 7 cheering loudly would really help them. So, we really 8 did put our efforts in cheering because they captured 9 two most prestigious gold medals, all-weight category 10 for male, all-weight category for female, and it was 11 the first time in judo history that those titles and 12 medals were taken from the Japanese. 13 1520 In post-championship interviews both 14 medallists admitted that all that Polish cheering and 15 exposure to sympathetic Polish community here helped 16 them to capture the gold medals. 17 1521 Now, I am saying Polish-Polish, but I 18 suppose all those things apply to other languages, 19 whether somebody is from the Japanese community or the 20 Italian community or many other nations, the same thing 21 would apply. We look for inspiration, we look for 22 language at which people can more express themselves 23 and empathize with. 24 1522 I have also interviewed a chief of 25 police, David Budby (ph) and we had a discussion on the StenoTran 363 1 different ways of police operation in Canada and 2 Poland. He was especially impressed with using canine 3 units to track down criminals in Poland and in 4 comparison to Canada they were extremely highly 5 advanced. 6 1523 So, concrete things happen besides 7 discussions. Chief Budby and Chief Fontina (ph) from 8 London visited Poland and signed a co-operation 9 agreement in police work between Poland and Canada and 10 also between -- I think I am going to have a glass of 11 water or something. I have to make it fast so you can 12 go home. 13 1524 Also, they signed some agreements 14 specifically on the work between Warsaw and Toronto, 15 the cities who have become twins. So positive things 16 do happen from co-operation and understanding between 17 different societies. 18 1525 For example, recently Jean Chretien 19 and his trade team to Poland and other European 20 countries. They had signed some 40 deals in Poland 21 worth millions of dollars. We had a consular from 22 Toronto, Chris Corwin-Korchinski, who is of Polish 23 descent and he was part of that delegation and we had 24 him yesterday on the air of Radio Polonia saying his 25 comments about the trade mission to Poland. StenoTran 364 1 1526 Other people we interview are movie 2 producers, actors, entertainers, economists, 3 politicians, social workers, teachers, policemen and 4 many other different professions, as well as ordinary 5 people. 6 1527 The community also helps police in 7 their investigation. Appeals in a native language 8 somehow make people more trustworthy. Late last year 9 when a Polish couple was murdered, as a Radio Polonia 10 initiative a police representative went live on the air 11 to appeal for information and witnesses. So, we can 12 see positive things happening because people of 13 different cultures and languages have different views 14 of police. 15 1528 Sometime the views develop in the 16 country of origin and not necessarily they would be 17 trustworthy of police. Appealing in the native 18 language on public broadcasting helps in police work 19 and investigation. 20 1529 Now, who are the listeners of Radio 21 Polonia? The age varies, from children to seniors. 22 There is a place for children on the air, especially 23 during the summer where a half an hour is devoted to 24 them. Kids prepare their own program, sing and talk. 25 The response is very positive. StenoTran 365 1 1530 Excuse me, I usually don't get like 2 that. If I have more people I could -- 3 1531 THE CHAIRPERSON: You have had quite 4 an adventure. I think that's allowed. 5 1532 MS WALICHT: Thank you. 6 1533 Seniors are usually first to pledge 7 help to the needy. They often call the studio. This 8 year, 1999, has been declared the International Year of 9 the Older Person. Ethnic broadcasting has a great 10 contribution to make and Canada has a great 11 contribution to make. 12 1534 The age of the average Canadian is 13 going up steadily. Canadian seniors are from almost 14 all world countries of origin and as such a perfect 15 model to lead the work in celebrating the International 16 Year of the Older Person and in promoting 17 intergenerational relations. 18 1535 In many European and other countries 19 elders are looked upon with respect and appreciation of 20 great wisdom to pass on to future generations, an 21 especially important role in mentoring and motivating 22 the youngest members of society, children. Now, this 23 is very important in education and in Canada, and 24 Ontario specifically, is going through educational 25 reforms right now. So, I think those things would StenoTran 366 1 help. Also, expressing one's self in the native 2 language has many advantages. 3 1536 What changes we would like to see in 4 ethnic broadcasting? Well, I think almost everything 5 was said today. I would only like to add that we would 6 like to have more air time for all ethnic languages. 7 Each time policy makers, politicians and big media 8 moguls make decisions for greater profits, like for 9 example the recent merger of two TV networks, making it 10 the largest in North America. There is always a fear, 11 society needs respect and support may suffer. 12 1537 In financial support, it is very 13 difficult for small producers, such as the producers of 14 Radio Polonia or indeed other producers of CHIN, to 15 compete with big moguls and yet it is the small 16 producers that make the biggest difference in society. 17 It's like in a close-knit family, that's where you are 18 shaped in effect for the future. 19 1538 I have a 14-year old daughter, Tanya, 20 and I mentioned to her about today's forum and she was 21 shocked that the CRTC could counsel all the language 22 stations in favour of official language station. All 23 her friends know Johnny Lombardi and many watch 24 Saturday and Sunday television programming in many 25 different languages, languages that they can identify StenoTran 367 1 with, that they speak with at home even though they 2 were born in Canada. 3 1539 She asked me to deliver a message, 4 not counselling, but supporting ethnic broadcasting and 5 this is on behalf of her and all her friends from St. 6 Martin's High School in Mississauga. 7 1540 What is the contribution to ethnic 8 programming to the community? Besides being able to 9 assure success of ethnic programming, small producers 10 give back to the community that supports the program. 11 Many times and free of charge they help in fundraising. 12 They always with teams supported telethons like the 13 Sick Kids' Telethon, Variety Village Telethon that 14 raise millions of dollars. 15 1541 They also are the first ones to 16 extend a helping hand to all the needy, disabled and 17 misfortunate. Last year's flooding in Poland prompted 18 Krystyna and Richard to go on the air and raise some 19 $50,000. Also, the flooding in Winnipeg prompted the 20 response and initiation of a Polish program to do the 21 fundraising for that community. 22 1542 Another time, an electromicroscope 23 was donated by Canadians of Polish descent for the 24 Medical Academy in Poland. It was worth about 25 $300,000. Now, Richard and Krystyna volunteered to StenoTran 368 1 raise funds for its installation and $20,000 was raised 2 in five days. People listen and people trust Krystyna 3 and Richard Piotrowski. It's an earned trust. It's 4 also appreciated by other producers at CHIN. I 5 witnessed myself the Croatian producer. He noticed 6 that we were doing a fundraising for a cause. He 7 considered the cause very worthy and he contributed 8 himself right away. I listen myself to almost all the 9 programs and I enjoy the music, I enjoy the language, 10 even though I may not understand. 11 1543 My son was speaking I think six or 12 seven languages when he was four years old because he 13 had all the friends who were speaking those languages. 14 I was very surprised when he came home one night and he 15 was speaking Arabic. Canada is a multicultural country 16 and a model to others in the equality of treatment of 17 all people. So, this is what Canada is all about, 18 equal treatment to all people, communities, regardless 19 of ethnic background and broadcasting in ethnic 20 languages provides a forum for the people where they 21 can better understand each other, vent their 22 frustration or praise whatever they want to praise and 23 respond better to appeals that are coming from those 24 who come from the same culture, background and speak 25 the same language. StenoTran 369 1 1544 Ethnic programming is a necessity, 2 the same as the Canadian commitment and popularization 3 of a multicultural society, a model to lead the world. 4 Europe unites, faiths unite, all people shall unite and 5 we all will have a better world. That's the end and 6 I'm tired. I want to go to sleep. 7 1545 Thank you. 8 1546 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you so much. 9 1547 MS WALICHT: And we all love Johnny 10 Lombardi. He's like a papa to us. 11 1548 THE CHAIRPERSON: He was here 12 earlier. I'm sorry, his son was here. Junior was 13 here. 14 1549 Thank you so much for being with us 15 and I know you have a long way to travel. I just want 16 to apologize again for the confusion, but I am really 17 glad that you made it and thank you very much for your 18 contribution. 19 1550 Thank you. 20 1551 MS RHÉAUME: Our final speaking of 21 the day is the Rev. Adolfo Puricelli. 22 1552 THE CHAIRPERSON: Rev. Puricelli. 23 1553 REV. PURICELLI: Adolfo for the 24 family. 25 1554 THE CHAIRPERSON: You have the StenoTran 370 1 distinction of being our final participant. 2 PRESENTATION / PRÉSENTATION 3 1555 REV. PURICELLI: Yes, and I was told 4 that supper is around 1:00. 5 1556 I will try to summarize 15 pages. I 6 have a lot of sympathy for you, frankly, because you 7 are already submitted to this torture for seven or 8 eight hours, listening more or less to repetitive 9 things. 10 1557 I would like to start with a story, 11 if it is possible. An old rabbi once asked his pupils 12 how they could tell when the night has ended and the 13 day has begun. Could it be, asked one of the students, 14 when you can see an animal in the distance and tell 15 whether it's a sheep or a dog? No, answered the rabbi. 16 1558 Another asked is it when you can look 17 at a tree in the distance and tell whether it is a fig 18 tree or a peach tree? No, answered the rabbi. 19 1559 Then what is it, the pupils demanded. 20 It is when you can look on the face of any man or woman 21 and see that it is your sister or your brother because 22 if you cannot see this it is still night. 23 1560 I believe that the work that you are 24 doing is really to help us to see the faces of our 25 sisters and brothers and to encourage each other. That StenoTran 371 1 means I am going to summarize some of the things I was 2 trying to say a little more longer. The first thing is 3 to congratulate you for what you are doing at this 4 moment in the review. 5 1561 The second is to tell you that since 6 my position of Executive Director and senior pastor of 7 an ethnic congregation I see many times the influence, 8 the good influence that the mass media has on the life 9 of people. The concerns raised by your Public Notice 10 CRTC 1998-135 are extremely important. I am only going 11 to call your attention to one detail here. We plan to 12 submit to you a paper, so I mean it's okay. 13 1562 Let me express serious concern in 14 relation with the Spanish-speaking community, who 15 represents a very rich and complex background with more 16 than 25 countries of origin that speak and/or use 17 Spanish as a mother tongue and the good mix that we 18 have with native people, African, Asian and the 19 European influence. 20 1563 One of these countries today is the 21 United States of America, fourth in Spanish-speaking 22 population in the world and now becoming the first 23 ethnic minority with great political representation and 24 power at all levels of government of the United States. 25 1564 This USA Hispanic population is StenoTran 372 1 producing thousands of Hispanic programs through very 2 sophisticated areas, serving heavily the interests of 3 multinational economic sectors originating or operating 4 in the USA. 5 1565 In the same way that we are trying to 6 defend the content of our magazines, papers and 7 periodicals from the powerful influence from the USA, 8 we need to do our best to facilitate and defend the 9 economics and the content and production of programming 10 in music and so on. 11 1566 I am going to escape and only say 12 that we believe strongly and I believe strongly that 13 the Type A and D programs are needed and I represent 14 one of them when I explain why. 15 1567 I support, obviously, too the use of 16 the Type E programs because these programs can help all 17 the population to have more understanding of who we 18 were, who we are and who we are becoming in Canada 19 2000. I believe that that type of programming is very 20 good and very necessary for the general population in a 21 cross-cultural approach. 22 1568 I am going to emphasize other aspects 23 that are important, the intergenerational aspect of the 24 mass media communications gain more relevance for the 25 newcomers. The adult parents always like to encourage StenoTran 373 1 their children to learn and keep their mother tongue. 2 The Type A and D programming will continue making that 3 essential breach. We need to do that in many ways. 4 1569 There was some study done in the 5 eighties that shows that there are some languages that 6 we bring to Canada and that they are somehow a 7 different type of approach and schools are not 8 seriously considering to teach them in the schools and 9 it is very important. 10 1570 The seniors, grandmothers and 11 grandfathers of the newcomers, are arriving sometimes 12 too late to master the new languages in Canada, but the 13 ethnic programming Type A is the best vehicle to keep 14 them informed, alive and aware of what is going on in 15 Canada and in the world. 16 1571 To close my remarks, I would like to 17 exemplify with gratitude one of the good experiences in 18 Type A programming that I hope you will increase and 19 support for through the improvement of policies, 20 procedures and guidelines. 21 1572 Telelatino has programs in Italian, 22 Portuguese and Spanish. I live in a neighbourhood of 23 Canadians from Italian and Portuguese programs. 24 Several times in my talks to them in the past year I 25 have heard from them words of acknowledgment and StenoTran 374 1 appreciation for their program and the other programs. 2 I mean these people are following very closely the 3 thing. 4 1573 Specifically, I have known and 5 participated in the program of Laura Productions with 6 Telecide, "You Decide," all in Spanish. This is a 7 national program which reaches to Spanish-speaking 8 people from the whole country. It addresses topics of 9 need in the newcomers and helps to openly deal with 10 differences and in a very constructive and respectful 11 way. It also helps to integrate people to Canadian 12 society in a very meaningful way. 13 1574 This type of programming, A, is very, 14 very beneficial to all aspects of national and 15 international life. In this global village that we 16 live in, more and more of us belongs to two, three or 17 more social cultural backgrounds that need to be 18 reflected really in the policies of the CRTC. 19 1575 Thank you very much. The Creator of 20 all of us bless you and your important work. 21 1576 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very 22 much, Reverend. That's an appropriate note on which to 23 end today's session. 24 1577 I would like to thank all of you for 25 being here at such a late hour and for your StenoTran 375 1 contribution today and this session is adjourned. We 2 will reconvene tomorrow at 4:00 p.m. 3 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 2325, to resume 4 on Wednesday, February 3, 1999 at 1600 / L'audience 5 est ajournée à 2325, pour reprendre le mercredi 6 3 février à 1600 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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