Examen des politiques relatives à la télévision canadienne/
Review of the Commission's Policies for Canadian Television
CONSULTATION TENUE AU:
Robson Square Conference Centre
Le 22 juin 1998
CONSULTATION HELD AT:
Robson Square Conference Centre
Vancouver, British Columbia
22 June 1998
Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des télécommunications canadiennes
Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Transcription / Transcript
Consultation régionale/ regional consultation
Cindy Grauer Présidente/Chairperson
AndrÆe Wylie Conseiller/Commissioner
John Keogh Conseiller juridique/ Legal Counsel
Michelle Edge Gérante d'audience/ Hearing Manager
Marguerite Vogel Secrétaire/Secretary
TENUE AU: HELD AT:
Robson Square Robson Square
Conference Centre Conference Centre
(Colombie-Britannique) British Columbia
Le 22 juin 1998 22 June 1998
TABLE DES MATIÈRES/TABLE OF CONTENTS
Présentation au nom de/Presentation on behalf of:
Shyla Dutt 4
Sheri Graydon 17
Dorothy Sorley 27
Stan Fox 29
West Coast Media Society
Jeff Bear 38
Sid Tan 46
Faye Wightman 54
B.C. Children's Hospital Foundation
Amy Pollen 59
Dorothy Livingston 62
Victoria Council of Canadians
Darren Lowe 72
Richard Ward 75
Ann-Marie Sleeman 85
Sadie Kuehn 95
Affiliations of Multicultural Societies
and Service Agencies of B.C.
Steve Richards 103
Patrick Zulinov 107
Amir Gillni 112
Horizon Interfaith Council
Michael French 118
Doris Rankin 124
Clive Court 125
Klodyne Rodney 131
Kevin Millsip 137
Council of Canadians
Vancouver Westside Chapter
Hanson Lau 142
1 Vancouver, British Columbia
2 --- Upon commencing on Monday, June 22, 1998
3 at 1600/L'audience débute le lundi 22 juin 1998
4 à 0900
5 1 THE CHAIRPERSON: Good afternoon,
6 everyone, and welcome to this Town Hall consultation.
7 My name is Cindy Grauer and I am the Commissioner for
8 British Columbia and Yukon. With me is Commissioner
9 Andrée Wylie. Also seated here to my left are
10 commission staff, including hearing manager, Marguerite
11 Vogel, who is director for Western Canada of the CRTC
12 and based here in Vancouver, and our legal counsel for
13 today, John Keogh. I invite you to call upon either of
14 them with any questions you might have.
15 2 Before we begin, I would like to say
16 how pleased we are to be here in Vancouver to have the
17 opportunity to hear your views on content in
18 programming on Canadian television. I would also like
19 to thank every one of you for taking the time to
20 participate in this hearing. As you know, this public
21 consultation is part of a larger process which will
22 culminate in a formal public hearing in Hull at the end
23 of September. Your comments today will form part of
24 the public record and assist us in our deliberations.
25 It is very important to us to hear from a broad range
1 of interested Canadians and it is therefore very
2 gratifying that you have indicated an interest and made
3 the time to appear before us today.
4 3 We are in this Canadian television
5 policy review looking at how we can review our
6 television policies to better respond to the
7 restructuring taking place in the broadcasting
9 4 Some of the issues we hope to hear
10 your views on include but are no no way limited to the
11 following: How important is Canadian programming to
12 you? Do you agree that Canadian television should
13 reflect your views and values as Canadian citizens, and
14 what kinds of Canadian programming are of interest to
16 5 We are here today to hear from you
17 and it appears that we have a very high turnout of
18 people who want to be heard. In the interest of
19 ensuring that we hear from everyone, I will ask that
20 you limit your remarks to 15 minutes and we will limit
21 our comments to questions of clarification. We want to
22 assure you that we are, notwithstanding these
23 limitations, very interested in hearing what you have
24 to say and getting your remarks on the public record
25 and keeping this process as informal as possible.
1 6 I would also like to take this
2 opportunity to remind everyone that we will accept
3 written comments until June 30th.
4 7 At this point I would like to ask
5 legal counsel to address the process we will be
6 following today.
7 8 MR. KEOGH: Thank you, Madam
8 Chairperson. Just a few procedural points I want to go
9 over. The secretary will call your name when it's time
10 for you to appear and if you're not at the table, if
11 you could come forward to the table to a microphone,
12 please. If you are at the table, when you're ready to
13 begin, if you could just press the black button and the
14 red light will go on. It's important that the
15 microphone be on because a transcript is being kept of
16 your representations, as the chairperson mentioned,
17 because it will form part of the official record of the
18 proceeding. If you have an interest in obtaining a
19 copy of the transcript, you can speak to the court
20 reporter at the back of the room.
21 9 Lastly, there are translation
22 services available, so if you have need for translation
23 services, just outside the entrance there is a fellow
24 at a desk who has devices which he can provide to you.
25 10 I think those are all my comments.
1 Thank you.
2 11 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. On the
3 subject of sitting hours, we will look to take a short
4 15-minute break around 5:30 and then again around 7:30.
5 We will sit this evening until everyone who would like
6 to speak has been heard.
7 12 Before I turn to the secretary to
8 call our first presenter, let me ask if there are any
9 preliminary matters to be addressed?
10 13 Thank you. I will now ask the
11 secretary to call the first presenter.
12 14 THE SECRETARY: Thank you, Madam
13 Chair. Our first presenter this evening is Shyla Dutt.
15 15 MS DUTT: Thank you very much. Thank
16 you for the opportunity to present here today. It's
17 been all around I think a little bit of short notice so
18 if I don't present some detailed figures in the
19 analysis, as you have asked in your public notice, you
20 will forgive us because we have only come to know about
21 this very recently.
22 16 I also would like to take a moment
23 and thank very much the CRTC staff, who were
24 exceptional on short notice to provide me with all the
25 background documents.
1 17 Having said that, my topic for today
2 or the aspect that I would like to cover is on
3 diversity. I would like to first talk about regional
5 18 Having spent a lot of my life in
6 Ottawa and Toronto and having moved to Vancouver, I now
7 understand why Vancouverites wring their hands as to
8 Ottawa people not understanding what Vancouverites and
9 British Columbians are all upset about. When I turn on
10 the television news and try to get excited about
11 something that I heard on the news and say, oh, well, I
12 can rush down Young Street or Hyde Park or whatever and
13 go and visit this, I very often realize, well, I'm not
14 there on subway line; I'm here in Vancouver.
15 19 A lot of the frustration around news,
16 information programming, as well as some of the, if you
17 will, life styles and issues raised in drama and
18 entertainment programing very much revolve round
19 Ontario, particularly Toronto, and I know you have
20 heard this all before but it really is an incredibly
21 eye-opening experience when you live here as I have in
22 the past little while.
23 20 The other aspect of this not getting
24 reflected, and especially so in the news, is that it's
25 very often out of synch with what's happening here.
1 For one thing, the news has already been put to bed
2 before we get home from work and in fact most Ontario
3 and eastern folks are already in bed when we sit down
4 to watch the national news.
5 21 I don't know about other British
6 Columbians but I have certainly been amazed to see a
7 lot of folks here don't even tune into the national
8 news because they don't find it relevant. I'm still
9 addicted to it and haven't gotten over the habit of
10 watching it, which is why I know that I don't hear the
11 kind of things I would like to hear about.
12 22 I don't mean the kind of events
13 covered. Sometimes, yes, and even last night there was
14 a news item. There's always something every now and
15 then about something that happens here, but I'm talking
16 about the reflection of the kind of values, decisions,
17 priorities and, indeed, life styles that make British
18 Columbians very distinct and yet so far from the centre
19 where decisions are made.
20 23 Most of these policy hearings in
21 fact, as you know, take place in Ottawa. When I lived
22 there I was privileged in order to be able to reach
23 most of them, to be able to sit in and understand why
24 some of the decisions happen and what the structure of
25 the programming and the structure of the regulatory
1 system is, which is a prime reason why I'm here, having
2 worked as a consultant there.
3 24 The reason diversity in British
4 Columbia is also quite different in terms of its
5 multilingual/ multicultural composition, than from the
6 multicultural/ multilingual diversity in, say, Toronto,
7 it is dominated by two groups as opposed to many. Even
8 though the numbers are greater in Toronto or Ontario,
9 for instance, it's much more concentrated among two
10 groups in B.C. That alone has changed the dynamics of
11 their participation in British Columbian society. If
12 you look at the participation in socioeconomic and
13 political structure in B.C., you will see there are a
14 number of cabinet ministers, MLAs, in the legislature
15 of British Columbia and there is a very predominant
16 stature for these groups in the economy of B.C. that's
17 quite different from their participation in, let's say,
18 Toronto or Montreal. Hence, by the fact that B.C.
19 doesn't get reflected apart from its confluent
20 concerns, if you will, there is also this aspect of the
21 diversity within diversity that doesn't get reflected
22 as a result.
23 25 One of the issues around this is
24 ownership and increasingly ownership is getting
25 concentrated and the Commission has recently also in
1 its notice stated that it's no longer -- it's closed
2 the door to, if you will, at the moment anyway, to new
3 network applications. At this point that is very
4 disappointing because it means that there is no room
5 for a born in British Columbia type of network
7 26 Now, I realize the Commission can't
8 force parties to come forward and apply for that but I
9 submit respectfully that the kind of framework in which
10 you call for applications, each of the decisions are
11 sort of building blocks towards that happening because
12 one can't really run until one learns how to walk, if
13 you will, and that type of disadvantage exists out here
14 and it's rather disappointing to hear that that door
15 will not be open.
16 27 So I would like to submit that
17 perhaps the Commission, in looking at ownership
18 transfer, as you have said that you will look at that
19 type of concept, would certainly try to look for that
20 type of relevancy, if you will, what I call regional
21 relevancy, both in programming and in ownership.
22 28 Now, as far as the diversity within
23 diversity goes, much of the requirements for meeting
24 the diversity requirements in the Broadcasting Act have
25 been sort of looked at as, quote/unquote, multilingual
1 programming or segregated programming for various
2 segments of the population whether it's multilingual or
3 other, religious groups, whatever.
4 29 I believe that there is an emerging
5 need and a more urgent need than serving those type of
6 needs, if you will, because of the nature of the milieu
7 into which, for instance, new immigrants come. There
8 is a critical mass here, especially in B.C., to which
9 they arrive and, therefore, their needs for
10 integration, if you will, or, rather, their route to
11 integration is a little bit of a -- mostly pretty slow
12 because when you have critical mass of numbers as well
13 as resources, the danger is that you can very well say
14 that we will set up a parallel system, and I do believe
15 we don't want to be in the business of building
16 solitude and yet there is a great danger of that
17 happening if this isn't taken into consideration.
18 30 Another issue is that of the youth,
19 the difference in the youth, the children of those
20 immigrants, as well as the youth, others that are
21 growing up here. Again, because of the critical mass,
22 they don't feel the necessity for integration, even
23 though that seems like a contradiction in terms, and
24 again numbers make a big difference. You have enough
25 people speaking your language or like yourself that you
1 can be with and socialize with that you don't feel the
2 need to integrate and, therefore, all of the systems
3 and, very importantly, the broadcasting, the media,
4 have a great role to ensure that that happens, that
5 they feel an ownership and participation in the,
6 quote/unquote, mainstream media, and by that I don't
7 mean just covering things they do. I mean having them
8 participate as producers, as assignment editors, as
9 reporters, as owners, so that they feel that this
10 belongs to them and there is no need to build a
11 parallel system.
12 31 So it's from the history of, I guess,
13 the governance of diversity, I felt that it has been to
14 give this group of people over here their media and we
15 have taken care of it. I believe that it is far more
16 important to integrate them.
17 32 And I have read the public notice,
18 for instance. I noticed there were many issues before
19 we got to the diversity issues. There were Canadian
20 content and whether the development -- the initiatives
21 or incentives that are offered to broadcasters and the
22 way they are regulated are under a lot of those things.
23 Reflection of the market, the audience in their
24 particular market segment and the carrying Canadian
25 content were dealt with separately and, with the best
1 of intentions, the Commission, as well as the
2 broadcasting system, has really looked at a special
3 place within it for multicultural, ethnic multilingual
4 programming and that's a very narrow segment of
5 diversity but it makes the point that we are not to be
6 looking at that -- not in a separate way but in an
7 integrated way.
8 33 There is a lot of need, therefore,
9 for what I call fused programming, fusion programming,
10 namely, programming that meets the needs of people who
11 in a way have a foot in one culture and yet in the
12 other culture, too, and you need to bring them together
13 and the only way to do that is they still have needs on
14 part of who they are, regionally as well as culturally,
15 and on the other hand being part of the Canadian
17 34 The other way to get to that is
18 hybrid programming. I believe that partnerships need
19 to be encouraged between broadcasters coming from
20 distant strands and streams, as we know that some of
21 the newer, younger television licensees are doing, but
22 I think more of the established licensees need to do
23 that type of thing to build bridges between all
24 involved in Canadian society.
25 35 Looking at the regulatory mechanisms,
1 Madam Commissioner, that you asked us to address,
2 therefore, all of this boils down to access to
3 programming and equal treatment of different segments
4 of the audience.
5 36 For instance, what type of
6 remuneration is given to producers? You need to look
7 at not just the quantity but the quality of the
8 programming that they carry. Just as much as the
9 Commission is concerned about Canadian content
10 programming being good in quality and not just in
11 quantity, that principle needs to be applied within the
12 other types of programming.
13 37 So if diversity is an element of the
14 programming that's required by conventional
15 broadcasters, the quality of that is just as important
16 as the quantity. For instance, one producer told me
17 that the producer is offered $1,000 an hour to produce
18 programming when half an hour of a quality program she
19 produces costs 13,500. So there is a feeling that if
20 the programming is cheap, it's -- you know, as long as
21 we meet the quota for the hours, that's all we need to
22 do. So I think quality as well as quantity needs to
23 have an equal place within the broadcasting system.
24 38 The program production initiatives
25 need to be applied equally to people who apply for
1 ethnic broadcasting licenses as they are to
2 conventional licenses, and the encouragement that you
3 talked about -- I know we have very little time, so I'm
4 kind of rushing through all the issues I wanted to
6 39 The encouragement to produce
7 programming and export fits within the objectives and
8 goals which you have stated about the economic
9 constraints within which the broadcasting system
10 operates, and I don't see that as being incongruent.
11 It's not something you need to do as a favour to one
12 segment of the audience. I think there is a wealth of
13 resources there that can be applied to exporting as
14 long as it's supported and fostered in a suitable
15 regulatory framework.
16 40 Sharing experiences and resources
17 among broadcasters is another way to cut costs but
18 produce high-quality programming for export. So I
19 believe that saving diversity in an equal way as well
20 as promoting Canadian content don't necessarily have to
21 be incongruent.
22 41 Thank you very much.
23 42 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
24 43 Commissioner Wylie, do you have any
1 44 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: Thank you.
2 45 Ms Dutt, when you are concerned about
3 not enough regional diversity, do you mean there isn't
4 sufficient effort in including in the national news
5 things about British Columbia or the lack of local
6 regional programming in British Columbia by British
7 Columbia TV stations because they are not owned by
8 British Columbians?
9 46 MS DUTT: Both. When costs are cut
10 there are no resources allocated, with exceptions. I
11 don't want to be making a sweeping statement about
12 everyone, but when you cut costs -- as you know, when
13 there's a strike you get a lot more national
14 programming. So resources, as they filter down to the
15 local regional level, are harder and harder to come by,
16 and that's one issue, how much freedom there is at the
17 local level and regional level to look at things. And
18 I'm talking beyond that, to the kind of nuances in
19 daily living that you know by being a part of the
20 place, that you can't if you are sitting somewhere else
21 and developing the program.
22 47 I saw an item yesterday on the news
23 about someone packaging programming, radio programming,
24 and just selling it to different parts of the country
25 under different names and he would come on as a
1 commentator with one name in one part of the country
2 and shift programming off to another town with another
3 name, and he said soon he'll be producing that kind of
4 programming from his basement in Mississauga --
5 Oakland, rather, and shipping it across the country.
6 So you see what I mean is that the nuances of life in
7 British Columbia are hardly going to be captured that
9 48 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: Well, not
10 necessarily. I presume that one could get information
11 wherever it's necessary to have a broader view despite
12 the fact that it is produced by someone who doesn't
13 necessarily live here or own -- in French Canada, I
14 don't know if we do that in English Canada but in
15 French Canada we refer to mirror programming and window
16 programming, mirror programming being British
17 Columbians reflecting on to themselves what's happening
18 in British Columbia and window programming being an
19 input into other programming that is seen nationally or
20 in other parts of the country and provides a window on
21 to British Columbia. Do you have any suggestion as to
22 how this can be improved? You probably thought it was
23 fine when you lived in Toronto.
24 49 MS DUTT: Yes, exactly, and that's
25 exactly my point, was that I never understood -- and I
1 worked here as a consultant for broadcasters while I
2 lived in Ottawa and Toronto and actually have spent
3 over 10 years commuting back and forth, but I found
4 honestly that it's very different when you live. You
5 notice things that aren't there and you notice the
6 frustration when you watch something and, oh, that's
7 not relevant to me any more. It's very disappointing
8 and scary to look around and see people not tuned in to
9 our national news because there's nothing there that
10 captures that.
11 50 You know, there's a joke around here
12 that it's hard to come by a truly born and bred
13 Vancouverite, for instance, so most people who live in
14 the city migrated from Ontario for whatever reasons,
15 not only from but very many did, and there is a certain
16 reason why people have done that. There is a certain
17 choice and priority that's distinctly British
18 Columbian, I feel, and that once you appreciate, it may
19 appear to be not so difficult. After all, we watch
20 Hollywood movies and everybody enjoyed "The Titanic."
21 In fact, the Titanic -- Newfoundland is enjoying a
22 healthy boost to tourism. Having said that, though, I
23 do believe there is a difference.
24 51 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: And should not
25 be insurmountable?
1 52 MS DUTT: No.
2 53 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: You are talking
3 about information programming and maybe some
4 entertainment programming as well?
5 54 MS DUTT: Well, I talked about the
6 incentives program, that when decisions are handed down
7 or when applications are considered, as well, in
8 granting licenses, that those are the kind of things
9 that may be looked at and articulated as being
10 something that the Commission would find -- how shall
11 we say -- positive qualities in an applicant, that they
12 do take into consideration ownership participation,
13 independent production, production for export. All of
14 those things that build on regional and local and
15 diversity premises ought to be -- would be looked at
16 positively because right now it's isolated; Canadian
17 content, yes, but it's not spelled out.
18 55 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: Thank you, Ms
20 56 THE SECRETARY: Our next participant
21 this afternoon is Sheri Graydon, representing Media
24 57 MS GRAYDON: Thank you very much for
25 the opportunity to be here. Just for those members of
1 the audience -- because the CRTC is very familiar with
2 our work -- Media Watch is a national women's
3 organization founded in 1981 as the result of a CRTC
4 study that looked at the representation and portrayal
5 of women and girls in Canadian broadcasting and found
6 it severely wanting. So our mandate since 1981 has
7 been to monitor, lobby and educate about the importance
8 of gender equity in Canadian broadcasting.
9 58 I'm going to make a few observations
10 followed by some recommendations this afternoon and we
11 will be submitting a more detailed submission in print
12 by the June 30th deadline.
13 59 We had the fortune to welcome to our
14 board just last week Catherine Murray of the School of
15 Communications at SFU and Lindsay Green, a Toronto area
16 communications consultant, both of whom I think will
17 have good perspectives to add to the remarks that I'm
18 going to make today.
19 60 As a result of our research and our
20 review of the research of others, Media Watch is very
21 clear that the Canadian broadcasting environment is
22 considerably less sexist and less violent than that of
23 the U.S.
24 61 In addition, our work with
25 organizations around the world -- we coordinated a
1 global media monitoring study a couple of years ago
2 involving more than 70 countries, and we frequently get
3 requests to do presentations at international forums
4 about the Canadian broadcasting environment from the
5 perspective of women's participation in broadcasting
6 here, and all of those experiences have really
7 reinforced for us the value of the CRTC and its
8 historical commitment to upholding the tenets of the
9 Canadian Broadcasting Act.
10 62 So I wanted to start out by saying
11 that and specifically to applaud the progress of
12 initiatives that the CRTC has undertaken over the years
13 and the Commission's willingness to implement measures
14 that in fact uphold the notion of airwaves as
15 constituting a public utility to be used for the good
16 of all citizens, men, women and children.
17 63 We are very familiar with and
18 recognize the pressure being brought to bear on the
19 CRTC by industry, players who are in some cases anxious
20 to follow the U.S. down the deregulation path, and we
21 are very strongly convinced that the level of
22 regulation that exists in this country is not only
23 eminently reasonable but in fact envied by others who,
24 while not living adjacent to the American broadcasting
25 system and production industries, are nevertheless also
1 suffering under threat of their domination. So I think
2 it's very important to acknowledge the role that
3 regulation in the CRTC has played to date in terms of
4 defining a unique space for Canadian culture.
5 64 We also want to comment specifically
6 on the work of the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council
7 in recent years in terms of the efforts that the CBSC
8 has made to reinforce and remind Canadian broadcasters
9 of their responsibilities regarding the sexual
10 stereotyping and violence guidelines. The "Power
11 Rangers" decision of a few years ago certainly
12 demonstrated that, as did the more recent CBSC rulings
13 around the Howard Stern show, regarding the two radio
14 stations airing that program in Toronto and Montreal.
15 65 However, we recognize that the CBSC's
16 mandate is essentially to protect the interests of its
17 members, the broadcasters, and we remain skeptical
18 about the broadcaster body's commitment to uphold the
19 sexual stereotyping guidelines which are so important
20 to us in radio or television if doing so means putting
21 a license of two of its members in jeopardy.
22 66 I really want to stress how seriously
23 Media Watch has observed and submitted to the CBSC on
24 this particular issue and how central we believe the
25 CRTC's role and the regulatory process has been to even
1 having the two decisions that have been taken so far.
2 In particular because the Stern show is about to make
3 its debut on Canadian television in September, we would
4 like to remind the CRTC of its ultimate responsibility
5 in ensuring that broadcasters do in fact adhere to the
6 hard-fought guidelines that inherently recognize
7 women's rights to be treated equitably, not to mention
8 with dignity, on the airwaves.
9 67 I'm sure you have read transcripts of
10 some of the material that has appeared on the Howard
11 Stern show. The notion of material that is so
12 abhorrent that newspapers across the country will not
13 print much of what is available on the airwaves every
14 day to children, to adults, to whoever, I think is
15 indicative of the seriousness of this particular issue.
16 68 The Howard Stern program indeed
17 provides the chilling demonstration of the need for and
18 the value of Canadian guidelines and we believe that
19 the CRTC has a duty to intervene if the CBSC does not
20 have the stomach to enforce the existing regulations.
21 I understand that they are currently reviewing tapes of
22 the show from, I gather, May and that they will be
23 releasing a decision soon, and I don't know for sure
24 but it seems likely to me that they will for a third
25 time find at least one of the two stations in
1 contravention of the guidelines. In our view, the
2 Howard Stern show is precisely the kind of program that
3 the condition of license requirement instituted in 1986
4 by the CRTC was designed to deal with.
5 69 The other factor -- and it ties into
6 the issues that I just raised -- is that a couple of
7 research studies conducted in the late 1980s determined
8 that the Commission in its license renewal hearings did
9 not typically require broadcasters to demonstrate in
10 any significant way how they were in fact attempting to
11 adhere to the guidelines to increase the representation
12 of women on the airwaves and to improve their portrayal
13 practices. We would very much like to encourage the
14 CRTC to, in ongoing and continuing and upcoming license
15 renewal hearings, to ensure that questions were asked,
16 that there was maybe a more rigorous process by which
17 broadcasters were required to demonstrate what in fact
18 they were doing to increase the representation and
19 improve the portrayal.
20 70 One of the arguments that is often
21 made against being more pro-active in terms of what
22 broadcasters are required to do is the contention that,
23 well, we get very few complaints and the complaint
24 system or the changes in the broadcasting system or the
25 condition of license has always been dependent on
1 consumer complaints. What we know at Media Watch from
2 the research that we have conducted is that very, very
3 few women complain -- men, too, for that matter -- but
4 their lack of complaints is not indicative of a level
5 of satisfaction.
6 71 So, for instance, in 1995, with the
7 assistance of the media lab at Simon Fraser University
8 and under the direction of Catherine Murray, we
9 conducted audience research and determined that 75
10 percent of Canadian women polled across this country
11 indicated that they were often or sometimes offended by
12 advertising and television portrayal of women. That's
13 a very high figure and in particular what was
14 compelling news to us was that although 75 percent were
15 often or sometimes offended, only 13 percent had ever
16 picked up the telephone to register a complaint and
17 only eight percent had actually ever written a letter
18 and, as you know, a letter is the only form of
19 complaint that is taken seriously and that is moved
20 forward. So I think it's really important to remember
21 those figures, to remember that the Canadian public
22 don't generally have the time to come out to forums
23 like this to register complaints despite the fact that
24 they may be indeed very disturbed by what they are
25 witnessing on television.
1 72 So just to summarize, a lack of
2 complaints is an unreliable indicator of viewer
3 satisfaction and, secondly, groups like Media Watch,
4 which are attempting to engage and reflect Canadian
5 concerns about portrayal issues need to be supported in
6 our attempts to do that.
8 73 I have four recommendations at this
9 point and, as I say, in our written submission there
10 may be additional recommendations but specifically I
11 want to address myself, one, to content quotas because
12 I know that that's an issue of interest to the
14 74 It is our belief that Canadian
15 content quotas have supported the development of
16 Canadian cultural industries in a significant way and
17 that the kinder, gentler image of women -- and men, for
18 that matter -- that characterizes Canadian broadcasting
19 and distinguishes it from much of the American fare is
20 indebted to that support, the Canadian content quotas.
21 Therefore, we would ask that if, in response to
22 industry submissions, the CRTC decides to revisit the
23 manner in which content quotas are determined, that the
24 Commission recognize, while they do that, that all
25 Canadians have a stake in the continued improvement of
1 gender portrayal practices and that, whatever else it
2 does, it must continue to promote the funding and
3 development of Canadian talent and programming.
4 75 Regardless of how content quotas are
5 administered, I think it's very clear to all of us who
6 are concerned about the distinctive Canadian culture
7 that that support continue, and I notice on the list
8 here that there are people here arguing on behalf of
9 the support of the CBC, which has been, I think,
10 devastated by cuts, and I would add my voice to that.
11 Certainly CBC has been a leader in its portrayal and
12 representation of women and the diversity of its
14 76 Secondly, on a recommendations list
15 regarding the guidelines, the sexual stereotyping
16 guidelines, we strongly urge the CRTC to maintain those
17 guidelines and the violence ones and, as I mentioned,
18 to become more assertive in requiring broadcasters to
19 demonstrate at their license renewal hearings their
20 active adherence to the established guidelines and
21 their attempt to improve portrayal and representation
23 77 Number 3, on the condition of license
24 issue, the fact that adherence to the sexual
25 stereotyping guidelines was initially introduced as a
1 condition of license reflected the recognition that
2 some measures were necessary to conteract the
3 exigencies of the commercial marketplace in which shock
4 strategies -- for instance, of the nature of the Howard
5 Stern program -- would sometimes be used as a point of
6 differentiation. It's in the best interests of the
7 Canadian public that the CRTC continue to fulfill its
8 duty as a regulator and enforce the guidelines if and
9 when the industry fails to do so, even if this means
10 revoking the license of one or more broadcasters.
11 78 Finally, I would like to address
12 myself to intervenor costs. Broadcasters do not
13 effectively monitor themselves and I think, as we have
14 already demonstrated, the number of consumer complaints
15 received by broadcasters and by the CRTC is an
16 extremely unreliable indicator of listener and viewer
17 satisfaction. Therefore, we know people will watch
18 programs despite the fact that the commercials insult
19 them or the fact that one or more of the depictions on
20 the show, they might find offensive.
21 79 Therefore, organizations such as
22 Media Watch, which are, one, familiar with the codes
23 and, two, undertake to monitor both public sentiment as
24 well as broadcasting product, should be supported
25 financially so that we can continue to intervene in an
1 informed way, and calculation of expenditures needs to
2 include research as well as presentation costs.
3 80 As with the previous presenter, we
4 were informed about this process not too long ago. We
5 would have ideally liked to have undertaken at least a
6 small research project to give you more specifics
7 around our issues with regards to portrayal practices
8 and simply don't have the resources even if we had had
9 the time at this point to give you more concrete data.
10 81 That's all of the comments I have at
11 this point.
12 82 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms
13 Graydon. I actually don't have any questions. We'll
14 look forward to getting your submission.
15 83 Commissioner Wylie?
16 84 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: No questions.
17 85 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
18 86 THE SECRETARY: Our next presenter
19 this afternoon is Dorothy Sorley.
21 87 MS SORLEY: I want to speak on behalf
22 of licensed radio stations for Christian broadcasting.
23 There's been a great lack of it and there seems to be a
24 great feeling against it in Canada. So I am presenting
25 these petitions.
1 88 I believe that a positive and active
2 religious faith makes a significant difference in the
3 quality and productivity of an individual's life.
4 89 Number 2, I believe that a family
5 with a committed religious faith brings about a good,
6 solid influence upon the upcoming generation.
7 90 Number 3, I believe that a caring,
8 religious community makes an incredible impact on
9 Canadian society.
10 91 Therefore, I support the
11 implementation of 24-hour religious broadcasting to be
12 freely available for all citizens of Canada and I ask
13 that there be freedom in the development of Christian
14 single faith radio and television broadcasting in
16 92 Thank you.
17 93 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Ms
18 Sorley. We have no questions. Thank you very much.
19 94 THE SECRETARY: Our next presenter is
20 Keith Matthews.
21 95 We'll recall Mr. Matthews later.
22 96 Darren Lowe.
23 97 Then I would like to ask Stan Fox to
24 make his presentation, please, representing West Coast
25 Media Society.
2 98 MR. FOX: Good afternoon and thank
3 you for this opportunity to present to you.
4 99 The West Coast Media Society is a
5 group of consumers in the lower part of Vancouver
6 Island. It has been active for the last 10 years,
7 trying to improve the broadcasting situation in that
8 area, and today we want to comment on the quantity and
9 quality of local television and cable production in the
10 Victoria area. Our report is in two parts and refers
11 to CHEK TV and the Shaw Community Cable channel.
12 100 We have entitled the first part "This
13 Hour Has 21 Minutes." We used this title because,
14 according to our count, that is the usual amount of
15 local original production we receive from CHEK TV on a
16 typical day of broadcasting during the local news hour,
17 consisting of the early news at 5:00 p.m. and the major
18 local news broadcast at 5:30 to 6:00. At 6:00 p.m. we
19 are treated to the Vancouver news hour originating at
20 the sister station of CHEK, CHAN TV or BCTV.
21 101 Now, we wonder how the Vancouver
22 people -- and there's a lot present here -- would feel
23 if their six o'clock news came from Victoria, with
24 Victoria traffic, Victoria sports, Victoria weather,
25 and they received no local programming in prime time
1 any day of the week, and we are defining prime time
2 very loosely, from 6:00 p.m. to midnight. That's the
3 situation on Vancouver Island.
4 102 In Victoria the rest of CHEK's local
5 programming consists of "CHEK at Noon", a news magazine
6 type hour-long program followed by an hour of "Tyabji",
7 a public affairs talk show, which is the only place on
8 the local schedule that allows discussion of serious
9 public issues for longer than a few minutes.
10 103 Now, there's a "Wake Up" show
11 starting at 5:30 a.m. and originating from Burnaby,
12 B.C. which CHEK claims as its own, but the time period
13 and the almost non-existent Victoria audience rules it
14 out of serious consideration. I don't know if anyone
15 has ever seen that show.
16 104 On weekends they make an effort to
17 recognize the rest of Vancouver Island -- this is CHEK
18 -- with the 30-minute "Nanaimo Report". The rest of
19 CHEK's local content is made up of repeats of older
20 low-budget programs like "Body Moves", a dozen gymnasts
21 exercising outdoors, and "Pets and People", which is
22 only eight years old.
23 105 In case you are wondering how we
24 arrived at our numbers, I should explain we simply
25 watched the channel with a stop watch and clocked the
1 length of those items that were genuinely locally
2 produced on a given news hour and averaged the results.
3 Now, we subtracted the repeats that are used to fill up
4 the time. CHEK has adopted the clever strategy of
5 calling the first half hour, from 5:00 to 5:30, a
6 preview of the news at 5:30 during which shorter
7 versions of local items are shown, the same items that
8 are seen a half hour later on the 5:30 news. Once in a
9 while an item appears in the preview show that does not
10 repeat but most of the rest of the early time period is
11 taken up with material pulled in from other networks
12 and news feeds. There's no arts reporter, no business
13 reporter. The business report consists of four slides
14 with music.
15 106 Now, this ridiculous situation has a
16 basis in an earlier decision by the Commission in which
17 you apparently ignored your regulations that prohibited
18 one owner from having two television broadcasting
19 stations in the same commercial market area and you
20 allowed WIC to own both CHAN and CHEK. From a
21 commercial point of view, Vancouver and Victoria can be
22 considered a single market even though from a program
23 point of view they are very different. What we have in
24 Victoria is a puppet station controlled by the owners
25 of a Vancouver station.
1 107 Now, at the same time we want to make
2 it clear that our criticisms are directed at the
3 management of CHEK, not the able and very overworked
4 staff who do the best they can with the limited
5 resources they are given.
6 108 We are aware that the Commission has
7 noted previous deficiencies in the performance of CHEK.
8 In Decision 95-99 you stated:
9 109 "This one-year license term
10 reflects the Commission's
11 serious concerns regarding the
12 practices followed by the
13 licensee in the accounting of
14 its Canadian programing
16 110 Now, this problem was corrected by
17 CHEK, we will admit, but you did, in Decision 96-274,
18 remind CHEK that, quote:
19 111 "Television licensees have a
20 special responsibility to serve
21 the public within the particular
22 geographic areas they are
23 licensed to serve."
24 112 You continued:
25 113 "In this regard, the Commission
1 expects the licensee to adhere
2 to the commitment in its renewal
3 to broadcast, at a minimum, an
4 average of 13 hours and 20
5 minutes per week of original
6 local news."
7 114 Now, the West Coast Media Society and
8 the Commission, we just have very different definitions
9 of "original local news."
10 115 We believe that Victoria deserves
11 better. The Baton station in Vancouver has shown that
12 a local station can produce a variety of programs, not
13 just news, and even contribute to a national network.
14 We feel that a Victoria station should have
15 investigative reporting, good coverage of its vibrant
16 creative cultural scene, an opportunity to see the work
17 of our independent producers and contribute to national
18 television in a meaningful way. Also, CHEK should be
19 able to present some legal programming in prime time,
20 when most people are watching.
21 116 I ask you: Why was Izzy Asper of the
22 Global Network able to acquire so many thousands of
23 supportive signatures from local individuals and groups
24 when he applied for a license for a TV broadcasting
25 station on Vancouver Island? Could it be that the
1 citizens over where we come from are fed up with the
2 minimal service we have been receiving? I suggest you
3 check it out, please.
4 117 Now, the second part of our
5 presentation is entitled "This Day Has 20 Minutes," and
6 we are talking about Shaw Cable. We used this title
7 because that's the commitment to local programming that
8 Shaw Cable plans to provide in its revised service to
9 be introduced this fall in Victoria. The community
10 channel originally mandated by the Commission is to be
11 altered beyond recognition.
12 118 This service has been the alternative
13 to CHEK's half-hearted commitment to the people of
14 Victoria. It was possible to see in-depth coverage of
15 local subjects that, while they are sometimes appealing
16 to a niche audience, were of extreme value to our
17 community. Local musicians were given a platform to
18 display their talents, local political issues were
19 discussed in a time frame that allowed all aspects of a
20 subject to be explored, local sports were covered by
22 119 A lot of this will end in the fall,
23 perhaps all of it, if Shaw has its way. Instead of a
24 schedule which accommodates programs of a normal length
25 on a variety of topics, we are to be presented with one
1 20 to 30-minute endless loop of very short items
2 produced under the control of Shaw and shown on a split
3 screen, the better to accommodate banners and
4 advertising calculated to boost Shaw's fortunes.
5 120 This has already happened in Calgary.
6 Imagine a television channel with only one little
7 program, a marketer's a dream.
8 121 This move by Shaw is a great
9 disservice to the Victoria community and we urge you to
10 take steps to discourage it. Shaw claims they are
11 acting as a result of public wishes, quoting a
12 mysterious survey. Our sounding of local opinion has
13 found no one who wants this service and a good many
14 citizens who feel outraged that this major change in
15 our community channel is being forced on us without any
16 public debate.
17 122 We ask the Commission: How can you
18 allow such a basic part of the Canadian broadcasting
19 system to be abandoned? We remind you that Shaw
20 operates as a controlled cable monopoly as a
21 consequence of your regulations. We cannot choose
22 another cable service that provides a community
23 channel. It makes no difference to us if Shaw has been
24 required to contribute to Canadian production through
25 national production funds or might face competition in
1 the future from satellite service. This means mothing
2 to us in Victoria. We want the local service we have
3 been using to continue.
4 123 You bear the responsibility of giving
5 Shaw the choice of reducing community service and you
6 did it, I'm afraid, without consulting the citizens
7 affected. It is perfectly possible for Shaw to be
8 required to make the choice that Rogers did in
9 Vancouver and continue to be a responsible corporate
10 citizen in Victoria by providing a needed alternative
11 to commercial television.
12 124 We remind you that, while we are not
13 shareholders in these companies, we are stakeholders in
14 the quality of our broadcasting system and we ask you
15 to join us in taking a look at the local service in
16 Victoria and seeing something should be done.
17 125 Thank you. That's the formal
19 126 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
20 much. You have come a long way over to make your
21 presentation and we very much appreciate it. I don't
22 have a lot of questions because you were very clear.
23 Can you sum up what it is you would like us to do with
24 respect to service in Victoria, with respect to
1 127 MR. FOX: Well, I think there's going
2 to be in the future certain -- these stations will have
3 to renew their licenses. I'm sure that CHEK does.
4 Shaw has to at some point relate to you, and I rely on
5 your skills to decide how you can bring pressure on
6 Shaw. Unfortunately, I believe the decision was
7 made -- the wrong decision, in my view or our view, was
8 made in the past already, when they were given this
9 choice, so I mean that has to be somehow rescinded and
11 128 So I'm leaving it to the Commission
12 to try and work on this. We would be happy to discuss
13 it with you in even more detail if you wish.
14 129 THE CHAIRPERSON: I'm assuming you
15 have made your views known to Shaw.
16 130 MR. FOX: We have written to Shaw and
17 they have not answered. We have written to CHEK and we
18 got a letter back written in pure bafflegab but that's
19 it. Shaw has not responded and Shaw will not respond
20 to anyone at this point apparently about the exact
21 details of what they are doing, so we can only assume
22 the worst - Calgary.
23 131 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
24 much. Again, I appreciate you taking the time to come
25 all this way.
1 132 THE SECRETARY: Our next participant
2 this afternoon is Jeff Bear.
4 133 MR. BEAR: My name is Jeff Bear. I'm
5 a member of the Maliseet Nation, situated at
6 Woolostogwik- Negootkoog, which English speakers will
7 know as the Indian Point, situated at the confluence of
8 the Tobique and St. John rivers in northeast New
9 Brunswick, but I live here now. I'm here today to
10 represent my own views as an independent aboriginal
11 story teller and to share some of my concerns and views
12 about the future of Canadian programming.
13 134 I have been involved in aboriginal
14 communications for the past 20 years. In that time I
15 have worked at four different aboriginal organizations,
16 one national one, and all of them funded by government
17 to produce newspapers, radio stations and television
18 programs. I have worked on the development of
19 Television Northern Canada, which I will touch on in a
20 moment, and I have worked on changes to the
21 Broadcasting Act in the mid-'80s that brought us into
22 Canadian programming in a formal way. I worked in
23 mainstream broadcasting with the CBC English program, a
24 network program called "The Journal", and now I work
25 here in Vancouver for a show called "First Story",
1 which I produce and write.
2 135 During the past five years I have
3 been an independent television producer situated here
4 on the west coast. During my career I have produced
5 documentaries and I have told stories that deal almost
6 exclusively with aboriginal realities. It's my
7 vocation, it's my privilege and it's my predilection,
8 if you will, to have been gifted as one of my nation's
9 story tellers. As such, I have been called native
10 journalist, native communicator, reporter and
11 ultimately, by some of our high-profile First Nations'
12 leadership, turncoat. I'll take whatever I'm called.
13 No one knows my real Maliseet name anyway, except for
14 my family members.
15 136 Here I'll take a departure from this
16 formal note and try to talk to you in the oral
17 tradition, using some notes.
18 137 Television Northern Canada is a
19 project you will be dealing with in the near future and
20 it's a project that has raised concerns for many of us
21 independent aboriginal producers and story tellers.
22 The concerns are primarily one of representation and
23 one of corporate structure because the organization
24 itself has not included us in its development, it's not
25 included us in its corporate structure and it's not
1 including us now in the evolution of its national
2 network proposal.
3 138 The programming decisions that will
4 be made in a future undertaking of a national
5 aboriginal television network should include those of
6 us who have made our homes in the cities south of the
7 fictitious line that divides north and south in Canada.
8 For the purposes of independent producers, I think that
9 they need to have access to such a television network
10 should it come about so that our programs can be seen
11 and enjoyed by the rest of Canada.
12 139 Public funding for independent
13 productions has been different for us. We haven't made
14 great inroads to Canadian programming in the past up
15 until the recent five to six years, say, and the
16 reasons for that are that many of us haven't had the
17 break. Many of us haven't found stations or
18 broadcasters that would put their faith to bring our
19 stories to air. So they have created special programs
20 and program funding within government that has helped
21 to move that along, and one of those areas is the
22 Telefilm, what they call the aboriginal production
24 140 In their first year they didn't spend
25 any money because they couldn't find a program that
1 anyone would give a license to that was attached with
2 licensing dollars, and the main stumbling block with
3 that was that you were supposed to have produced a
4 program in an aboriginal language, which is well and
5 good, but mainstream broadcasters won't program an
6 aboriginal language show because you need subtitles and
7 it's the general view that these programs will not be
8 watched by most Canadian viewers. So the Telefilm fund
9 has been kicking around from one conference to another.
10 Different policies have been attached to it.
11 141 One film recently was released with
12 Cree, totally Cree narration on the soundtrack. The
13 person that made the film can't speak a word of Cree.
14 The writer, the director, any of the people that were
15 on the creative team didn't speak a word of Cree. So
16 they were using this public fund essentially to get
17 their production done and sometimes will take all kinds
18 of different shortcuts just to get the story done, I'm
19 told, but I fear that in the licensing of Television
20 Northern Canada this may be compromised.
21 142 I will at some point in the near
22 future come and make a formal presentation on these
23 issues. I merely wanted to inform you today that there
24 are a few of us who have intentions to do this and,
25 since this is a forum to discuss the future of Canadian
1 programming, I thought it was appropriate to make those
3 143 The other point I wanted to make is
4 what I mentioned earlier, is that the urban reality is
5 really important to us and here in Vancouver for the
6 past year we have had the privilege of bringing stories
7 to our audience that are told from a First Nations
8 perspective, produced by First Nations people and seen
9 for the most part by First Nations people. We have a
10 large aboriginal following here although if you check
11 the DBM's, you will never find that. I think there's
12 still a little bit of monocultural aspect to these kind
13 of studies. I don't think they call aboriginal homes
14 very often to find what their viewing patterns are
15 like. That's one small problem. I think it's just
16 merely an obstacle, though, that we can overcome in the
18 144 That show I'm describing is called
19 "First Story" and it's aired on the local VTV station
20 that this gentleman over here mentioned earlier, and
21 our stories have coined a phrase called "the urban
22 rez". It's now a term that many aboriginal people in
23 the city are using, and it's made significant inroads
24 to our community in a way that, you know, people walk
25 up to me on the street, people walk up to me when I'm
1 at Indian meetings, which I have a habit to go and hang
2 out at, and there is a recognition factor. They don't
3 even introduce themselves to me. I don't know these
4 people like on a first-name basis. They are just
5 coming in to say, "You're doing a great job. You know,
6 we're really, really proud of you, to see what you're
7 doing on the air."
8 145 And for the future of the aboriginal
9 people I think that kind of reflection has to become
10 apparent in all parts of Canadian programming. I think
11 to a small degree our public broadcaster has achieved
12 much in that direction but they haven't even really
13 wanted to do a news and current affairs show that was
14 produced by aboriginal people, and there are reasons
15 for that and I think principal among those reasons is
16 that they haven't given us the trust for the same
17 reasons I mentioned earlier, why aboriginal producers
18 couldn't get their foot in the door.
19 146 They recently produced four pilot
20 programs called "All My Relations", and it was a good
21 job but it was too little, too late, and there's no
22 commitment for them to go ahead. On the other hand,
23 "First Story" is going to be renewed for another season
24 and we will be taking the show to parts beyond
1 147 So I think that this kind of show and
2 this kind of experience can bring something not just to
3 the Television northern Canada project I mentioned
4 earlier but something to Canadian programmers and
5 mainstream programmers.
6 148 How is this going to impact upon your
7 goals? Well, I'm not really certain on that. I have
8 only looked at this issue for the past several weeks
9 but I noticed in your literature you mentioned one of
10 the policies of the CRTC is to reflect the
11 multicultural, multiracial nature of Canadian society,
12 including the special place of aboriginal peoples
13 within that society. Well, that just isn't done
14 enough. We see too many stories about suicide. You
15 don't have a mainstream television camera come to the
16 scene unless somebody has sniffed glue or somebody has
17 hung themselves. That has to stop.
18 149 I don't know how you can incorporate
19 this into your programming policies but I think it's
20 something that should be stated in the future of
21 Canadian programming, that our true stories are brought
22 out, because there's hundreds out there.
23 150 When I took on this task to produce
24 "First Story" for Baton, one of the people there asked
25 me, "Where are you going to come up with 26 shows?" And
1 I had kind of a chuckle because there's a hundred
2 stories or more sitting in my back pocket that I would
3 love to share with viewers, and we have been able to do
4 that and we are going to continue to do that.
5 151 The other part that I thought was
6 relevant was: What is the appropriate contribution of
7 the independent production sector to the evolution of
8 the broadcasting system and what is that sector's role
9 in achieving public policies?
10 152 I think we have to be involved. We
11 have to tell people what struggles we must face just to
12 get to where we are today and, in a similar
13 perspective -- and again back to Television Northern
14 Canada, that's the only way we can get to represent our
15 views south of the Hamelin line or the invisible
16 barrier that divides north and south.
17 153 That's all I want to say.
18 154 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: Thank you, Mr.
19 Bear. I assume that we will be hearing further from
20 you when the TVNC application is heard by the
22 155 MR. BEAR: That's a safe assumption
23 to make, Madam Commissioner.
24 156 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: And we look
25 forward to that. Thank you very much.
1 157 THE SECRETARY: Our next participant
2 this afternoon is Sid Tan.
5 158 MR. TAN: Hello. Thank you for this
6 opportunity to address the Commission. I say this with
7 a certain amount of heart-felt feeling because I know
8 that in many countries around the word environmental
9 and human rights activists would not have this
10 opportunity, particularly to address an issue which is
11 so far reaching as media and the way that media shapes
12 our economy and the way that media shapes our culture
13 and our values. So it is with a great deal of
14 heart-felt thanks that the Commission is here and I
15 appreciate this opportunity.
16 159 What I have to say to the Commission
17 and perhaps in turn to the federal government may not
18 be very pleasant but let me first put it into context
19 as what I would consider a community activist. I'm
20 here as a citizen but, as a citizen, I have spent much
21 time working to improve what I would consider this
22 country, of trying to participate, and to that end, in
23 a completely volunteer situation I have been a founding
24 director of the Asian Canadian Writers Workshop, I have
25 been a founding director of the Community Media
1 Education Society, I'm a director of the British
2 Columbia Environmental Network Education Foundation, a
3 director of the Environmental Foundation of British
4 Columbia, I co-chair the Sierra Club Lower Mainland
5 Group in Vancouver, in the Lower Mainland, which
6 started Greenpeace, and I'm a director of the Sierra
7 Club of British Columbia. I'm also a founding member
8 of ICTV, Independent Community Television Co-operative,
9 the Vancouver Association of Chinese Canadians and also
10 the Ogoni Solidarity Network.
11 160 I'm very concerned about issues of
12 the environment, human rights and progressive activism
13 and I'm concerned because I believe one of the major
14 voices that we have had in this country, community
15 television, is under assault.
16 161 Over the past year I have asked the
17 CRTC to declare their support of community television.
18 In 1991 the Commission acknowledges the admirable
19 degree of commitment and dedication of programming
20 staff and volunteers. The Commission continued to
22 162 "The role of community channels
23 should be primarily of a public
24 service nature, facilitating
25 self-expression through free and
1 open access by members of the
3 163 This is in 1991. Yet last year the
4 Commission considers, quote:
5 164 "It would be neither beneficial
6 nor practical to require all
7 terrestrial distributors to
8 provide and fund a community
9 channel and that contributions
10 by distribution undertakings be
11 directed to a single
12 independently administered
13 production fund, namely, the
14 Canadian Television and Cable
15 Production Fund."
16 165 Of course community television
17 producers cannot access this fund. What has happened
18 between 1991 and 1997? Clearly community television
19 now exists at the favour of media corporations. Cable
20 companies now control the very existence of community
21 television because they control the production
22 facilities and the channels in which it's distributed.
23 How is it the federal government, through the CRTC, is
24 able to address the concerns of entertainment and media
25 conglomerates yet provides no legislative or regulatory
1 framework for community television? Does the "C" in
2 CRTC stand for "corporate" or "Canadian"? The current
3 state of community television leads me to believe the
5 166 The contribution of community access
6 television to community and nation building is
7 self-evident and the CRTC has recognized it as such.
8 It is time for the CRTC to address the lack of
9 legislative and regulatory framework for community
10 television. The CRTC must clarify the ground rules for
11 community input and determine adequate funding
12 arrangements for community media.
13 167 I hope I need not remind the
14 Commissioners that community television is one hundred
15 percent Canadian content and production and primarily
16 with volunteers. Community television prior to the
17 1997 decision was people in their communities caring
18 enough to weave, strengthen and show off the Canadian
19 fabric. For many volunteers it is the expression of
20 their love and vision of Canada.
21 168 Unfortunately, the Commission's
22 concern with competition, convergence and technology,
23 though laudable, has failed to address the needs of
24 communities. I do not understand why satellite signal
25 providers and telephone companies who ventured into the
1 television business are exempted from Canadian
2 television distribution to the communities from whence
3 they derive their revenues. Perhaps it's time for
4 community television to be available on the public
5 airwaves, eliminating the need for citizens to
6 subscribe to a corporate service to access
7 volunteer-produced programs about their community.
8 169 This is ironic in the extreme. It is
9 time for community needs to take precedence over
10 corporate greed, particularly when community television
11 becomes part of the marketing of that corporate
13 170 The CRTC has allowed, whether
14 consciously or unconsciously, community television to
15 be regulated by market and commercial values. There is
16 no need to discuss whether market and commercial values
17 are the best regulators of what is in the public
19 171 An informed public is the foundation
20 of democracy. Can we expect media corporations to
21 adequately inform citizens about media issues? What
22 about the issues that can impact on the revenue of
23 advertisers; will we see these issues brought forward
24 for public debate in the mainstream media? Keep in
25 mind that what is called mainstream media is privately
1 owned media. How can the public interest be
2 represented adequately by corporations that are market
3 and commercial driven?
4 172 This underscores the need for a
5 strong and vibrant public and community broadcasting
7 173 I envy your task. With continual
8 budget cuts to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation,
9 the CRTC can mandate the development of community
10 television systems to balance regional and national
11 views. While corporate media providers can cull
12 markets, the CRTC can ensure that communities have the
13 opportunity for access and expression through community
15 174 The CRTC could be well served by a
16 public review of community television policy and
17 funding. The CRTC can begin a process to determine
18 community media needs for the next millennium. I know
19 the government must provide the legislative framework
20 but the CRTC can exercise its considerable influence to
21 send the signal to the public that it is diligent in
22 the balance of interest among consumers, the industries
23 and the community and public.
24 175 I believe the volunteers and friends
25 of community television would applaud such a move. I
1 suggest this process could begin with a regulatory
2 framework for community television that could be a
3 template for community media in general. It is time to
4 study and debate community media that will strengthen
5 our communities and nations.
6 176 I ask the Commission to accept this
7 challenge. Canadians would be inspired by such
8 leadership. I know that I would.
9 177 Thank you.
10 --- Applause/Applaudissements
11 178 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
12 much, Mr. Tan. We do appreciate you coming here today
13 and your comments are all part of the public record. I
14 think you were very clear. I don't have any questions
15 of clarification. I'll see if my colleague has.
16 179 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: Mr. Tan,
17 obviously you don't agree with the policy that was
18 hammered very recently on the choice that distributors
19 can make about whether they support financially a
20 community channel or sums are given to a production
21 fund for the production of Canadian programming, but
22 the regulations are quite recent although the
23 Commission has said that it would review them, I think
24 within a period of two years. So that will give the
25 Commission some time to monitor how distributors use
1 that flexibility to respond to various communities'
2 pressure. I hope that your views are made known to the
3 distributors as to your desire for a continued
4 community channel and it's important that communities
5 monitor and take note of what's happening and we will
6 have an opportunity to review the situation again but
7 it is a policy that was canvassed quite extensively
8 when the Commission recast its distribution
10 180 I hear you, that in your view it's
11 not working to your liking because there appears to be
12 less community programming opportunity. So keep
13 monitoring, keep talking to your distributor and we
14 will hear from people like you when we do the review.
15 181 Thank you, Mr. Tan.
16 182 MR. TAN: If I may, I would just like
17 to draw to the Commission's attention that there's no
18 real definition of community television. That is,
19 community television in reality does not exist unless
20 Rogers wants to have a community television channel,
21 and I would ask the Commission to actually redress
22 this. There is a problem here simply because there is
23 no legislative undertaking. What we talk about in
24 community television in reality does not exist at this
25 moment. It only exists because a corporation chooses
1 to run a community channel and their definition of
2 community television, believe me, differs very much
3 from mine, my feeling of what the spirit of community
4 television should be.
5 183 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: Thank you.
6 184 THE SECRETARY: Our next presenter
7 this afternoon is Faye Wightman, representing B.C.
8 Children's Hospital Foundation.
10 185 MS WIGHTMAN: Thank you. My name is
11 Faye Wightman. I'm president of B.C. Children's
12 Hospital Foundation and I'm here to tell you about the
13 absolutely essential role that Global Television in
14 Vancouver plays, both in terms of generating awareness
15 and helping us to raise funds for the hospital.
16 186 Before you can understand the
17 terrific support that Global gives us and the impact
18 that they have, I think it's important to know very
19 briefly something about Children's Hospital.
20 187 We are located at Oak and 28th Avenue
21 in Vancouver but the hospital serves the whole
22 province. We see children from birth to age 16 from
23 every corner of the province. Last year we saw over
24 139,000 patient visits from more than 200 communities
25 throughout the province. We provide the highest level
1 of care for sick and injured children, from treatment
2 of injuries from playground accidents right up to bone
3 marrow transplants and open-heart procedures.
4 188 The Children's Hospital Foundation is
5 the fund raising arm for the hospital. Each year we
6 raise approximately $15 million to help pay for needed
7 capital, equipment, research, patient care programs and
8 education and, as most people across Canada know, as
9 government budgets tighten and health care funding
10 becomes even more precarious, the role of hospital
11 foundations becomes even more important in order to
12 keep funding at world class levels to keep our
13 hospitals functioning at that level.
14 189 Within our own sector, the role of
15 fund raising, increasing competition among other
16 deserving non-profits makes our job even more
17 difficult. This is where Global TV Vancouver comes in.
18 I am absolutely convinced that we couldn't do what we
19 do and raise the kind of funds that we are raising and
20 the awareness of the role of Children's Hospital
21 without the support of our friends at the station.
22 190 Global Television has been at our
23 side for the past 11 years. We had our first telethon
24 in 1988, when the station was known as CKVU -- that was
25 even before it was called UTV -- and it's been our
1 telethon home every since.
2 191 The telethon is an enormous
3 undertaking. It provides a focus for our volunteers
4 and donors, who raise funds for the hospital under the
5 umbrella of the show. It has always been our single
6 largest fund raiser and today it has raised more than
7 $43 million for the hospital.
8 192 In television production terms, as
9 far as I understand, it's a huge project to put on 14
10 hours of live programming. It requires all of the
11 resources of a TV program to come together for a hectic
12 weekend. Global does it enthusiastically and
13 seamlessly. Everybody at the station gets involved,
14 from the security personnel to the station's president,
15 Jim Rusnak, and many of Global's staff volunteer their
16 time to help out with the telethon.
17 193 Every year Global presents its own
18 donation on the show, raised through a variety of
19 employee fund raisers throughout the year. This year
20 the station presented a $25,000 cheque as an outright
21 donation to the hospital.
22 194 As welcome and as needed as Global's
23 annual gift is, however, its importance is far
24 outweighed by the station's annual gift of air time.
25 Every year the station donates commercial space worth
1 hundreds of thousands of dollars to air our PSA's, and
2 when they air them they air them in the station's best
3 prime time vehicles, "Entertainment Tonight", "The
4 Simpsons", "X Files". This year the station made space
5 for us on the hottest show of the year. Three of our
6 PSA's ran on the last episode of "Seinfeld". We were
7 even told that, after the show ran, that when it came
8 time to schedule the commercials the Children's
9 Hospital PSA's were slotted in first with paying
10 advertisers then placed around them.
11 195 I don't want to leave you with the
12 impression that Global's support only extends to our
13 telethon because they are our official TV voice and
14 benefactor throughout the whole year.
15 196 Another very busy time for us is in
16 the holiday season, with a variety of family fund
17 raising events, and the station supports them all
18 through "Town Calendar" listings and "City Watch"
20 197 More often than not our events are
21 hosted by Global on-air personalities. The station's
22 weatherman, Mark Driesschen, is one of the hosts of the
23 telethon, the only host to be on-air live for all 14
24 hours. Russ Froese is our MC and host for our Child
25 Run, which is a run for families for 3,500 people, and
1 all of the "Sports Page" people have been tapped on
2 many of our fund raising golf tournaments and events.
3 198 The best example I can give you of
4 our working partnership is this. Every year our
5 communications department sits down with the station's
6 promotions department to block out a calendar for the
7 year, systematically working through all our fund
8 raising events. Together they come up with a plan for
9 the coming year: which events need the most support;
10 station personnel, who do we need; the telethon, what's
11 our critical path? And then it all happens seamlessly
12 and effectively.
13 199 As a fund raiser for more than 15
14 years, I can assure you that your fund raising efforts
15 will only be as successfull as the public's awareness
16 of your proposition and their awareness of your need.
17 Some years ago an Angus Reid study determined that B.C.
18 Children's Hospital's brand awareness, aided and
19 non-aided, was 93 percent, in the same neighbourhood as
20 brand awareness of Heinz ketchup and Kodak film. That
21 brand awareness simply would not be there without the
22 support of Global Television Vancouver.
23 200 With the station's help, we get our
24 message out and our need out to the public and the
25 public responds, and when the public responds we raise
1 funds for Children's Hsopital, and when the hospital
2 gets those funds it provides health care at a
3 world-class level. So when Global Television Vancouver
4 does what it does throughout the year, and for many
5 years, they perform what we certainly think is the best
6 public service of all. Their efforts help us help very
7 sick children get better.
8 201 Thank you for the time to speak with
9 you today.
10 202 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much
11 for coming here today, Ms Wightman. No questions.
12 203 THE SECRETARY: I would like to
13 invite Amy Pollen to make her presentation.
15 204 MS POLLEN: Religion is a very
16 powerful influence directed through the culture-shaping
17 medium of television. That is why I'm here today
18 earnestly requesting the group of 13 non-elected and
19 non-accountable Commissioners of the CRTC to stop
20 discriminating against Christian religious programs
21 while actively approving and permitting the lewd,
22 vulgar, destructive pornographic programs. Immorality
23 has been given license while positive faith and family
24 value programs have been largely excluded. This has
25 created an unbalanced system that is contributing to a
1 sick society. So I, as so many others, urge you to end
2 immediately the discrimination against religious
3 broadcasters by the CRTC. That was number 1.
4 205 Number 2, give priority consideration
5 to previously rejected Christian applicants for new
6 licenses. 3, especially the three multi-denominational
7 stations and the Catholic service called Eternal Word
8 Television Network. Restore these immediately.
9 Eternal Word Television Network has an audience of 55
10 million households in at least 38 nations.
11 206 To deny these uplifting programs
12 makes us wonder are we in a democracy. Yes. Is our
13 country democratic or not? Our Charter of Rights
14 states, "Everyone has the following fundamental
15 freedoms: (a) freedom of conscience and religion; (b)
16 freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression,
17 including freedom of the press and other media
18 communications." The CRTC policy clearly violates the
19 rights of all Canadians.
20 207 Also, by denying these religious
21 programs, we are also denying job creation that would
22 provide work for many.
23 208 Also, the good programming on the
24 justice system should be made available as one may not
25 realize the corruption that goes on until they are
1 regularly attending in court and see and hear for
2 themselves what's going on.
3 209 We are entitled to be fully informed
4 so we can make proper decisions and participate in the
5 building of our country.
6 210 Thank you all for listening and
7 giving me a chance to speak, and when are you having
8 your review so I can come to it, please?
9 211 Thank you.
10 212 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
11 much, Ms Pollen. What review is it?
12 213 MS POLLEN: Well, you were saying to
13 this gentlemen you were going to review things and he
14 can come to it. Well, I would like to come to it, too.
15 214 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, you are more
16 than welcome to come to it if -- it's a review of the
17 policy. I'm not clear at this point whether there will
18 be public hearings but --
19 215 MS POLLEN: Well, how do I come to
20 it? Where will it be held?
21 216 THE CHAIRPERSON: Maybe our legal
22 counsel can help here.
23 217 MR. KEOGH: Commissioner Wylie was
24 referring to the Commission's statement with respect to
25 the regulations that have been made for cable companies
1 and other distributors of programming. The Commission
2 would be reviewing those regulations in the next two
3 years and would be announcing a public process at that
4 time which would allow people to comment. It wasn't a
5 reference to a review of the Commission's religious
6 programming policy.
7 218 The Commission has received
8 applications for religious stations and has dealt with
9 them, most recently licensing a station for Toronto.
10 219 MS POLLEN: Thank you very much.
11 220 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
13 221 THE SECRETARY: I would like to
14 inquire whether Irma Mattes is here.
15 222 I don't see anyone responding. I
16 will recall Ms Mattes later.
17 223 Could Dorothy Livingston of the
18 Victoria Council of Canadians make her presentation.
20 224 MS LIVINGSTON: Thank you very much.
21 225 I think not many people are aware of
22 what the Council of Canadians are. It's a non-profit
23 society organized by citizens in response to major
24 changes nationally in governmental policies. It has
25 been going about 12 years. We presently have in
1 Victoria about 1,500 members and supporters and the
2 same growth has taken place throughout the country but
3 also in many parts of B.C.
4 226 I will proceed with what I have
5 written here.
6 227 What is the purpose of television?
7 There is a general assumption that its main role is for
8 entertainment and announcements; that is, for the
9 weather, programming events, news and, most
10 importantly, selling products. This has warped and
11 distorted all other roles for television, including the
12 news broadcasting, and has a huge destructive side
13 effect, many destructive side effects which can be
14 summed up by the term "toxic media."
15 228 I am here to applaud and plead for an
16 expansion of TV's other roles, which are not to
17 entertain or sell products. These other roles are for
18 the common good of individuals, families and our
20 229 I would like to support what Ms
21 Graydon said about Media Watch. There is a widespread
22 dissatisfaction with the present broadcasting of
23 television in spite of the fact that we now have more
24 channels than we have ever had before.
25 230 Having been a community organizer and
1 a producer and initiator of a variety of community TV
2 programs in Victoria for many years, I would like to
3 share a few examples of this experience and knowledge
4 with you. The most important function of this media is
5 local reporting and communication and I really can't
6 support more what many people have said, particularly
7 the woman who said she moved here and she now realizes
8 that as Toronto goes, so goes the nation, because
9 that's what comes across on the media in many cases.
10 231 However, there is another whole role,
11 and I am old enough to remember when the National Film
12 Board made films, they gathered together projectors and
13 they helped people to gather in a town hall -- I think
14 you call this a town hall meeting -- to discuss
15 national issues and other local or Canadian points of
16 interest, and I think that's exactly what Canadian
17 television is.
18 232 I also want to underscore what Mr.
19 Tan has said because there really doesn't seem to be
20 any definition of what community television is and
21 there certainly doesn't seem to be any commitment to
22 it, and this is appalling and that's mainly why I'm
24 233 I think we need to look at what is an
25 untapped resource, and this is what television in my
1 mind -- and also radio, now the Internet, all of the
2 new technology -- is bringing forth, that the
3 participation of ordinary citizens is now a reality and
4 yet somehow we are going in a backward direction. We
5 are going like 20 years, in another decade. I can't
6 understand this.
7 234 The only other thing I want to say is
8 that TV is as important to the common good as pure
9 water or systems of sanitation and transportation. I
10 think we can't take this lightly. It can't be
11 frittered away on entertainment or consumerism. We are
12 citizens; we are not consumers.
13 235 In a rudimentary, quiet but effective
14 way, community television in Victoria has been
15 performing some of these functions, and some of the
16 examples are really quite interesting and I have a much
17 broader vision than what is presently in place in
18 Victoria but to lose what we have is, again,
19 overwhelming and alarming. We used to have coverage of
20 City Council and other government meetings and this
21 allows those meetings to take place in your living room
22 and there is nothing like that because people are not
23 able to go out in many cases to become participants at
24 City Hall meetings.
25 236 The Council of Canadians has
1 particularly utilized Shaw Cable to get our outstanding
2 speakers covered and broadcast and they weren't only
3 broadcast in Victoria because Shaw covers a lot of the
4 Interior and certainly most of the rest of the Island,
5 of the province. They brought these people in much
6 more depth. They would broadcast a speaker like Susan
7 George or Mara Carlos or Lynn McRae for an hour or
8 sometimes two hours with questions so that the public
9 stand there saying things that I think resonate with
10 other citizens about these issues and it really becomes
11 a forum that helps people to think, to develop and to
12 begin to bring community resources together.
13 237 Responding to unexpected crisis.
14 Now, it wasn't the television or the community
15 television that did that but in December of 1996
16 Victoria had a very unexpected blizzard and it brought
17 the city to its knees. I mean you couldn't get to the
18 hospital, nor could the doctors and nurses come home
19 and relieve their shifts. All right, who stepped into
20 the breach? It was a radio station, CFAX, and those
21 people stayed on the air and began to help the
22 community to organize themselves so that if a store or
23 a house, the roof was falling in, they were able to
24 tell people, who had already begun to get cell groups
25 in neighbourhoods going to rescue or respond to these
1 crises, "You need to go to that area if you have a
2 shovel and help them because otherwise the building is
4 238 I think that we are not somehow ready
5 to use the technology that is available to us to
6 respond not only to natural crises such as ice storms
7 or whatever but also to social crises, and we are
8 having a lot of those at the present time. That, I
9 think, is the real loss or the untapped resources that
10 we could be using much more effectively, and it isn't
11 good enough that we exclude the community in the way
12 that we do and that the airwaves or broadcasting is
13 only available to corporations generally and for a very
14 different purpose.
15 239 Some of the other things are that we
16 have had good coverage of the arts, local music and
17 drama, and this gives the public an opportunity. One
18 of the other very popular programs is authors reading
19 from their own works at "Authors Breakfasts" and so on.
20 240 The other area that I think is not
21 well covered is that if I had a child with special
22 needs -- say cerebral palsy -- and I moved to Victoria,
23 it's very difficult to find a network and most of those
24 kinds of problems do require a network of service
25 providers. There have been many directories and so on.
1 241 Also there are people who suddenly
2 face major medical crisis, for instance, such as having
3 a stroke, and they themselves and their families need
4 to suddenly educate themselves; how do I cope with
5 this? That's another role that television could be much
6 more helpful than it is already.
7 242 I would like to say that Vancouver
8 Island is undergoing a huge social disaster with our
9 fisheries closing and, again, where is the response?
10 Our newspapers are doing something about that but there
11 is only the sensationalization about this. Community
12 television can bring a whole other dimension that
13 responds to those problems in a very healing and
14 helpful way, not to mention a way that can solve some
15 of them in a different way than we have ever done it
18 243 The role of information in the
19 functioning of a healthy democracy cannot be
20 over-emphasized. Adequately balanced information and
21 widespread participation are essential. Radio and TV
22 can do this in spades. Unfortunately, the most
23 powerful and affluent dominate these media. Effective
24 use of community television is not always technically
25 proficient and slick but it does bring forth ideas and
1 voices that are rarely heard. These deserve protection
2 and enhancement to even the playing field in a true
4 244 The other thing I want to say about
5 viewing of the outstanding speakers that I mentioned is
6 that in general CHEK TV and certainly not CBC, because
7 we don't even have CBC, do not cover these events. To
8 get someone to come out in the evening for a public
9 meeting is -- well, I don't know the answer of how you
10 do it, but when you have access to community
11 television, then you can even provide your own camera
12 people, and these are watched.
13 245 The staff at cable 11 in Victoria say
14 they have never had better viewer response than to some
15 of our programs. I didn't make that up, they said it.
16 246 Since media broadcasting is actually
17 a public, not a private resource, there should be at
18 least one broadcasting service that is community
19 controlled and accessible to all citizens.
20 247 The reported changes in our Shaw
21 community broadcast will greatly reduce the quantity
22 and variety of local programming. When you say two
23 years, I am appalled. I mean that is far, far too long
24 to do without our community television. It will just
25 be gone.
1 248 It will greatly reduce the quantity
2 and variety of local programming as well as reduce the
3 volunteer participation and training, and that is
4 another aspect that is quite important. The latest
5 thing that our provincial government has put into
6 practice is giving credits for tuition to students who
7 do community work. Well, a lot of students would like
8 to be involved in media.
9 249 I am here to represent the many
10 viewers, citizens, and volunteer non-profit societies
11 who consider community television essential. We are
12 not only asking that it be preserved as it is, but that
13 it really be enhanced because I think there's a huge
14 amount that could be, as I said before, available to
15 the community.
16 250 If we lose our present community
17 service, then viewers, citizens, and volunteer and
18 non-profit societies should be given complete control
19 over one community TV broadcast station as is done with
20 radio at the University of Victoria. That programming
21 for -- CFUV is entirely voluntary and many people watch
22 it and it is the only way that some groups can get the
23 message out and I think that is appalling.
24 251 Thank you very much.
25 252 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: Thank you, Mrs.
1 Livingston, but you have disappointed me greatly. I
2 was just about to decide to retire to Victoria. I
3 thought only Ottawa had blizzards.
4 253 I gather your comments are, like
5 those of Mr. Tan, about the community programming that
6 distributors, cable operators, offer.
7 254 MS LIVINGSTON: That's right. That's
8 all there is.
9 255 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: Has the Council
10 made its views known to the cable operator about the
11 apparently impending change in the community?
12 256 MS LIVINGSTON: There are many
13 citizens' groups in Victoria who are on the verge, as
14 long ago as when we had the earth law, to get together
15 and begin to protest, but it's difficult to get a clear
16 statement. What we have heard is very upsetting. We
17 would not like to go into an adversarial position. We
18 would like to somehow work with staff. Our
19 relationship with staff has been very good in Victoria
20 and I don't want to see that change by having to become
21 very aggressive, but I am serious when I say that this
22 is wrong and to lose something so important is
23 detrimental. It's detrimental to our communities.
24 257 MS POLLEN: I forgot one paragraph.
25 Would you like me to say it? It's a very important
2 258 THE CHAIRPERSON: Would you tell us
3 your name again, please, for the court reporter.
4 259 MS POLLEN: My name is Amy Pollen.
5 260 THE CHAIRPERSON: I wonder if we
6 could let perhaps Mrs. Livingston finish and then you
7 are welcome to.
8 261 MS POLLEN: I thought she was
9 finished. I'm sorry.
10 262 MS LIVINGSTON: I am finished unless
11 you have more questions.
12 263 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Thank you.
13 264 MS POLLEN: Can I say it now?
14 265 I urge you once again to recognize
15 that religious broadcasting is not a destructive force
16 but a positive influence, a soothing influence for all
17 but especially for the disabled, the elderly and for
18 those who have been denied the right to assert their
19 rights under the Charter. What we need is clean,
20 wholesome films.
21 266 Thank you.
22 267 THE SECRETARY: I would like to ask
23 Darren Lowe to make his presentation now, please.
25 268 MR. LOWE: Thank you very much for
1 hosting this hearing today. My favourite TV channel
2 was CPAC, the Canadian Public Affairs Channel. I have
3 been involved in government here in British Columbia.
4 I ran for office and am currently president of one of
5 British Columbia's political parties. I thoroughly
6 enjoyed the coverage on CPAC of the House of Commons,
7 the various legislatures, provincial and territorial
8 elections. I no doubt was in a minority but it was
9 certainly my favourite channel on the dial.
10 269 Last Thursday, October 16th, I was
11 very surprised to read in the "Vancouver Sun" under
12 "Displaced Channels" that CPAC was moving to channel 70
13 from channel 19 the very next day. There was hardly
14 even time for a funeral.
15 270 I couldn't get channel 70 and the
16 October 21st "Vancouver Sun" explained why. A
17 representative from Rogers Cablevision noted that
18 Vancouver basic cable subscribers cannot get the
19 specialty services because channels higher than 44 are
20 automatically blocked from the cable dial.
21 271 As I understand the process, almost
22 anyone can apply for a TV channel. Should you approve
23 it, then the various cable operators like Rogers and
24 Shaw can choose if they wish to air that particular
25 channel and if they wish to place it on the dial, the
1 basic rule being that a number of madatory Canadian
2 programming services such as CBC, English and French,
3 local and regional stations, B.C.'s Knowledge Network
4 and a community channel take priority.
5 272 I'm here today to suggest that, as
6 part of the approval process, cable companies present
7 their line-up for approval by yourselves. Then channel
8 viewers, taxpayers, who have no option, as there is no
9 competition, can comment to you whether the new
10 channels they are getting are going to be better than
11 the old ones that they will be losing.
12 273 In closing, I would like to note just
13 as well how impressed I was last autumn with the prompt
14 and comprehensive responses received to my complaints
15 from your Marguerite Vogel, who at that time and
16 perhaps even now is the acting director for B.C. and
17 the Territory regions.
18 274 I'm sure mine is one of the shorter
19 presentations today but I want to thank you for
20 listening and I urge you to consider my suggestion that
21 there be some sort of a public process so that before
22 new channels are placed on the dial people have an
23 opportunity to comment and to decide whether what they
24 are getting as new channels is better than what they
25 are losing as old channels.
1 275 Thank you.
2 276 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
3 much, and, yes, Marguerite Vogel is right here today.
4 Thank you very much.
5 277 I think what we'll do is take a
6 15-minute break or a 20-minute break and be back here
7 at six o'clock. Thank you.
8 --- Recessed at 1744/Suspension à 1744
9 --- Resumed at 1800/Reprise à 1800
10 278 THE SECRETARY: Our next presenter
11 this evening is Richard Ward.
13 279 MR. WARD: I would like to speak in
14 favour of community programming. For many years I have
15 been talking with Rogers managers about community
16 channel policies. My views are well known there, which
17 is not entirely the same as having them adopted.
18 Neither are they entirely opposed. I believe the
19 Canada television and cable production fund should be
20 designating money for independent community television.
21 280 In 1971 I was working in Castlegar to
22 establish a community channel following guidelines
23 recently established by the CRTC. Our territory ran
24 from Grand Forks to Revelstoke, about 50,000 square
1 281 The government of the day was
2 planning to ship southeast B.C. coal down to the United
3 States by building what would be called the Kootenay at
4 Elk Railway. They thought it would be cheaper to ship
5 coal through the U.S. Revelstoke is a railway hump.
6 The city had been going through a real depression.
7 Revelstoke had been counting on new southeast coal
8 shipments to get back on its feet and now that business
9 was heading south.
10 282 Our community producer, New Denver,
11 got a show together right away. We drove it to CHBC TV
12 in Kelowna, which broadcasts into Revelstoke, and they
13 played our tape right after the hockey game. Soon a
14 lot of people in the southern interior were talking
15 about how the railroad is a big part of Canada and this
16 was a chance to keep jobs in Canada. The Kootenay at
17 Elk bypassing Canada never did get built. I think we
18 helped cause that and we discovered the importance of
19 the issue to people in our area by having a community
20 television network.
21 283 In the '80s I produced a Kitsilano
22 news magazine called "Free Style." Henry Hertzog was
23 with a group trying to get UBC endowment land set aside
24 for a park. We did items, we did interviews and put
25 his group on phone talk shows. A couple of years later
1 the provincial government established Pacific Spirit
2 Park, today the largest park in the Vancouver area. I
3 like to think our community programming helped to make
4 that happen.
5 284 Recently I have been working with
6 ICTV, Independent Community Television Co-operative.
7 Last year two of our series, "After Hours" and "Night
8 Watch", did several interviews on the Gustavson Lake
9 First Nations stand-off. We gave participants a chance
10 to be heard and the series was rebroadcast nationally
11 by Vision TV. There we did two things the community
12 channel is supposed to do. We gave people a chance to
13 speak at length, something a commercial broadcaster
14 can't afford, and we publicized the views of a part of
15 society under-represented by the mass media.
16 285 We continued to work on aboriginal
17 issues and are about to do a youth television training
18 series with United Native Nations.
19 286 I believe when the CRTC established
20 the community channel, these are the kind of activities
21 Commissioners hoped would happen.
22 287 Our group, now ICTV, was Van East
23 Community TV, one of 11 neighbourhood offices closed
24 when Rogers consolidated production into two Lower
25 Mainland studios. To remain in East Vancouver, we
1 incorporated as a non-profit society, CMES, Community
2 Media Education Society, and as a co-operative, ICTV.
3 288 We continue to win international
4 programming awards. In the years since becoming
5 independent we have produced 60 new shows, 30 hours of
6 programming. We have 62 members and an open door
7 policy for new members. Our members speak 15 different
8 languages and the multicultural channel show, TV
9 Brazil, is produced at ICTV.
10 289 We have had some success fund raising
11 in our neighbourhood, the poorest in Canada, but for
12 the longer-term financing it does seem that we are
13 exactly who the CRTC community channel policy was
14 designed to support.
15 290 Some new members, we attract because
16 they fear corporate-managed community shows are
17 shifting toward formats and topics very similar to
18 those on local commercial stations. Freedom to cover
19 under-reported topics is a large part of the impetus to
20 become independent.
21 291 I have done community channel
22 programs for more than 25 years. Financial support for
23 the community channel has been the CRTC requirement
24 that cable companies, in return for their use of the
25 public airwaves, to import non-Canadian programming,
1 provide a percentage of revenue to support Canadian
3 292 At first all the money went to the
4 community channel. With the growth of Canada's movie
5 industry, some of that money was redirected to Canadian
6 film production companies. Beginning January 1st this
7 year the policy no longer requires any money to be set
8 aside for community programming. I don't mind sharing
9 but I think it's a mistake to abandon a policy that's
10 done so much good.
11 293 I should also say I recognize we are
12 in a very competitive broadcast environment. Here in
13 Vancouver Rogers Cable has done a great deal to develop
14 the community channel and I think it's unfair if they
15 have to bear the sole cost of supporting community
16 programming while their competitors, the satellite
17 distributors and telephone companies, are spared that
18 expense. Under the Broadcasting Act, the airwaves
19 belong to the people. I believe all companies
20 profiting from our communications system, one of the
21 best in the world, should give something back to the
22 communities they serve.
23 294 Historically the levy on the cable
24 companies has varied from five percent of basic cable
25 subscriber revenues to two percent of gross revenues.
1 Using the latter figure and restricting my interest to
2 East Vancouver, the neighbourhood served by ICTV, I can
3 see sufficient support for our independent community
4 channel service. If I look at cable systems in the
5 Rogers communication 1997 annual report, I see 350,000
6 subscribers in the city of Vancouver at an average
7 monthly revenue of $29.73. Assuming the low levy of
8 two percent and also that ICTV represents one of 11
9 original neighbourhoods, our annual share would be
10 about $225,000. We can do a lot of good work with that
11 kind of money.
12 295 When I was young the CRTC brought in
13 a community channel policy. It's made a big difference
14 in my life. Now you are examining new policies for the
15 entire broadcast system, policies that will affect the
16 next generation. I believe if you direct the Canada
17 television and broadcast fund or a similar fund to
18 support independent community television, we will all
19 continue to benefit.
20 296 I want to remind you that you are
21 building on success and also that I am personally
22 grateful for the foresight of the group you represent,
23 the CRTC.
24 297 Thank you for your attention.
25 298 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
1 Ward. Like your colleague Mr. Tan and some others, you
2 have made a very eloquent and articulate case for
3 community television. I'm wondering, have you
4 approached the Canadian Cable Television, CC -- I
5 always get mixed up, the fund -- for funding? Have you
6 presented this idea to them?
7 299 MR. WARD: We have gone through their
8 guidelines, and the requirement for a license by a
9 commercial broadcaster stands in our way.
10 300 THE CHAIRPERSON: I see. They have
11 responded in that manner to you, have they?
12 301 MR. WARD: I'm afraid the guidelines
13 were such to discourage me from a formal application.
14 302 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, thank you
15 very much. My colleague, Ms Wylie.
16 303 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: Mr. Ward, I
17 don't think you were here earlier when we discussed
18 your concern, which is community programming and the
19 fear that there won't be as much money funnelled into
20 it, correct?
21 304 MR. WARD: That was at a previous
23 305 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: No, we were
24 discussing this earlier with someone else.
25 306 MR. WARD: No, I have been here since
1 the start.
2 307 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: You were here?
3 But it's the same concern --
4 308 MR. WARD: Yes.
5 309 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: -- that there
6 will be fewer funds funnelled to the community channel.
7 310 It seems to me you think that the
8 satellite distributors don't have to give any money to
9 the community channel, but they do have to pay the five
10 percent, the same five percent into the fund. So all
11 distributors, whether they are satellite or cable, have
12 to put into the fund; if it's satellite, five percent
13 of their gross revenues from broadcasting activities.
14 The difference with cable is that there is some
15 flexibility that some of the money goes to the fund and
16 some to the community channel as a result of the
17 Commission reviewing this policy.
18 311 So I'm wondering whether you have
19 made known to the cable company that serves you how
20 much you appreciate the opportunity for a community
21 channel and any concern you may have that the amount of
22 money funnelled into it, as opposed to the production
23 fund, is diminished?
24 312 MR. WARD: I have made that point.
25 Our dilemma is that we are an independent community
1 channel. We are provided air time. Our dilemma is we
2 must raise core funding for our equipment replacement
3 to keep our office going, and I see no route short of
4 fund raising within our neighbourhood, doing small
5 productions, taking a share for the office, to make up
6 that money and yet it does seem to me that the policy
7 was intended to allow the kind of community programming
8 that I think we do better than the cable companies.
9 313 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: So you are not
10 using the cable operators' equipment and the funds that
11 they supply to the community channel? You are actually
12 a producer?
13 314 MR. WARD: Yes.
14 315 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: With your own
15 equipment and resources?
16 316 MR. WARD: That is true.
17 317 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: And does this
18 programming end up on the community channel?
19 318 MR. WARD: Yes, it does.
20 319 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: As well, as I
21 think I understood you to say, to Vision, as well --
22 320 MR. WARD: That's right.
23 321 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: -- and
24 presumably wherever you can sell it. So you are not
25 talking about the problem of not having enough
1 financial resources supplied by the cable company to
2 allow your group to produce programming?
3 322 MR. WARD: That is not our problem,
5 323 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: But you use air
6 time on this community channel as well?
7 324 MR. WARD: Yes.
8 325 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: And possibly
9 some of this programming has developed sufficiently to
10 be aired on other licensees?
11 326 MR. WARD: Yes.
12 327 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: But it's
13 important because there is a flexibility there and
14 there will be a review later as to how it's worked or
15 developed that groups make sure that the cable
16 operators are made aware of the community's desire --
17 or in your case you must have some people who
18 appreciate the programming?
19 328 MR. WARD: Oh, many, yes.
20 329 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: To make it known
21 to the cable companies that it's something that you
22 cherish and want continually because eventually we'll
23 review how this has worked, but we thank you for your
25 330 Thank you, Madam Chair.
1 331 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
2 332 THE SECRETARY: I would like to check
3 to see if Keith Matthews has arrived yet.
4 333 I don't see anyone responding. Then
5 I would like to invite Ann-Marie Sleeman to be our next
6 presenter, please.
8 334 MS SLEEMAN: Hello. Thanks for the
9 opportunity to speak. I'm one of those community
10 television producers. I do this at a volunteer level.
11 I have no financial gain on anything I have done and I
12 have done it for 12 years. My average commitment in
13 each month to the community is approximately 10 to 20
14 hours and that's producing programs of interest to the
16 335 Essentially I'm here as an individual
17 although I have lots of colleagues here, both within
18 the community television activist circle as well as the
19 environmental community, and I want to speak strongly
20 in favour of more of a fair treatment for community
21 television producers.
22 336 When Rick was talking basically about
23 being an independent producer, yes, we are independent
24 producers under CMES, Community Media Education
25 Society, and its subsidiary, Independent Community
1 Television but, just to clarify, that's a non-profit
2 organization that we had to start essentially because
3 Rogers shut one of the most award-winning community TV
4 offices in this country down because it wanted to save
5 money because it got too greedy three years before and
6 screwed up their finances.
7 337 Meanwhile our office gets touted
8 out -- or it used to under the auspices of Van East,
9 under Van East -- as some big quality neighbourhood
10 contribution that Rogers has been making, that -- our
11 award winning programming, oh, it's so great, 15, 16
12 awards from all over North America, not just Canada or
13 B.C. or our own back yard. I'm sure they trotted that
14 out for your perusal as well under CRTC reglations, but
15 when it came down to actually promoting those programs
16 to the average subscriber on cable, forget it. We
17 asked for five, six, 10 years, and even as a community
18 PR initiative, they didn't recognize the value of that
19 until about two years ago and then they started gearing
20 up after they shut down our offices and put down basic
21 programming that mirrors local programming, local talk
22 shows, local film stars and blah blah blah.
23 338 Well, I'm here to tell you that
24 community TV has contributed enormously to my life in
25 terms of just based on education of what reality is.
1 Reality is people in your neighbourhood, people from
2 all walks of life, people doing different things and
3 why, people contributing to the building of this
4 nation, and you don't get that hardly on mainstream TV.
5 You don't.
6 339 Again, I have no financial interest
7 in any of this. I do it out of my own interest to give
8 back something to my society. I don't do it to pay off
9 a student debt even though that's probably one of the
10 main focuses of some people now joining us in doing
11 that, or they think it's glamorous. Well, it's not.
12 You are sitting at an edit bay at 12 o'clock, at
13 midnight, trying to get something done.
14 340 We had to set our own non-profit,
15 frankly, because our regular volunteers, most of whom
16 work during the day, couldn't get to an edit bay at
17 2:00 a.m. in the morning.
18 341 Rogers donated their equipment to us.
19 It's a write-off. That was really generous of them but
20 they created more work because we have to do fund
21 raising for core needs.
22 342 In terms of applicability to the
23 wider community, the show I produce, "Earth Scene" --
24 which I did for three years and prior to that a number
25 of others, for about seven prior to that -- was all
1 about how the community can get involved in issues that
2 are of importance to them and, by that, in terms of
3 "Earth Scene", it was environmental issues, and
4 environmental issues aren't some subsidiary of when we
5 get around to it. It's the basis of each person's life
6 here. The prosperity of the natural world, biological
7 diversity, is a foundation of society. It's a
8 foundation of the economy. We don't live outside a
9 system. We are part of a living system. It's called
10 an ecosystem.
11 343 We have had excellent programming on
12 "Earth Scene", if I do say so myself. In the first
13 year and the second and the third year we had, on
14 average, 150 community groups participate in terms of
15 their people on to speak to the issues, to react to
16 industry propaganda, to react because of basically the
17 bottom line blackout on environmental issues on the
18 mainstream so-called private media, and they have only
19 started to improve now.
20 344 So this basic environmental issue
21 that never gets covered even though it's the bottom
22 line for everybody's life force here, we come in to
23 fill the gap and then basically we are told that we are
24 not slick enough. Well, pardon me, but with a
25 volunteer team that has been trained for four or five
1 years, we are pretty darn good for what we have, which
2 is basically nothing but an infrastructure of
3 dilapidated equipment that falls apart more often than
4 it's pulled together.
5 345 I can say, well, the corporate world
6 and the government owes us something. Well, the
7 government owes us leadership on those issues, and the
8 CRTC needs a better framework for defining what
9 community programming is, a better understanding of its
11 346 We are a country and the bottom for
12 this country is we are communities within a vast
13 geography and there's communication and there's
14 transportation and there's all the ethnicities that
15 pull it together and that's Canada. And if you want to
16 know what your community is really about and who you
17 are within it, if you turn on the community channel,
18 it's not going to be some fluff show. It's going to be
19 maybe talking heads, it's going to be maybe some people
20 not technically adept yet, but so what? It's real
21 people with real information, and if we have got to
22 keep selling info like info-tainment for people to
23 listen to, the bottom line, what's basically to their
24 quality of life, I suggest that the CRTC needs to take
25 some leadership on this.
1 347 And frankly I'm just really annoyed
2 because in community TV for years -- and I have been
3 doing this for 12 years -- we put on all kinds of stuff
4 and we have mainstream media basically monitoring our
5 programming and we'll see it two to three weeks later
6 show up on the lunch hour of BCTV, after they basically
7 felt, oh, I guess it's okay to talk about this
8 controversial issue.
9 348 And to their credit or in their
10 defense, they are busy, they don't put as much into
11 research, whatever -- it's on the backs of us
12 volunteers -- but they sometimes lift our programming.
13 Fair enough.
14 349 However, when it comes down to it,
15 they are relying on us as a resource tool to get the
16 general message out to the broader community because
17 they either don't want to rock the boat or they want to
18 push the envelope or they want to see how it settles
19 with the viewers.
20 350 So that's another service that
21 community programming has done for this country and
22 this neighbourhood.
23 351 On average, the last figures I saw --
24 and they are ancient, basically -- is 30,000 people at
25 any one time watch community TV, times maybe three
1 reruns, four reruns a month, 120,000 people. But from
2 there it parlays out into major issues being covered.
3 352 Two years ago we did a whole half
4 hour on endocrine disruptors. I don't know if anyone
5 knows what that is but it's basically plastics leaching
6 into your body, which will eventually disrupt your
7 reproductive system and cause genetic failure. Well,
8 that was a non-issue. Now all we see in "Maclean's",
9 oh, men and their sperm count all going down and
10 endocrine disruptors. The CBC phoned me up at work --
11 I work for an environmental organization -- anything
12 hot? Yeah, there's this thing coming on on our show,
13 our show, mine and Sid's, in conjunction with our other
14 volunteers. I don't get paid to produce it. So then
15 it was a big issue on CBC.
16 353 All I'm saying is that if people are
17 going to start riding our coat tails or they are going
18 to start looking at our ideas and then basically saying
19 we are out of the loop because we are not professional,
20 it's just BS. If they want to monitor our programming
21 and we want to help the Canadian public be better
22 informed, then great.
23 354 But I think the CRTC really has to
24 pull up some socks on this and I think overall that the
25 airwaves is a public utility. When there's complaints
1 in terms of the coverage of what's available for the
2 average viewer, well, frankly, I just disconnected my
3 cable. I just can't take it any more. And for a
4 while, for a year, I sat and counted how many murders
5 on American TV, how many rapes, how many innuendos, and
6 on Canadian TV, yeah, a little bit. I get CBC, yeah,
7 fair enough.
8 355 But in terms of community outreach,
9 under my paid hat I have a lot of colleagues around
10 this province who basically can't even get
11 environmental programming put on community TV because
12 they live in small towns where resource based
13 industries dominate and the environmental angle is just
14 too controversial.
15 356 Well, stopping clear cutting was
16 controversial. Now we see where it's going and that's
17 coming from public information, the public doing
18 something and everybody seeing a little bit of a
19 different spin on the average mainstream news.
21 357 So if I'm going on and sounding like
22 a hag, I want to concur with Sid, I want to concur with
23 Rick and just about about everybody in this room,
24 including First Nations coverage. We have done that
25 and we'll continue to do that. As for religious
1 programming, I think you are right; I think, in my
2 view, religion is essentially -- you are in the service
3 of the community to live a religious life. That's your
4 contribution. So that could be, you know, the
5 community of Christ, community of Buddha, community of
6 Allah, Mohammed, whatever, but if we are talking about
7 a diversity in the fabric of Canada, it includes
9 358 And I would like to urge you to not
10 wait two years for a review of community TV production
11 because we'll be dead by then.
12 359 Thank you.
13 --- Applause/Applaudissements
14 360 THE CHAIRPERSON: I just want to
15 thank you very much. You don't sound at all like a hag
16 and, again, you also made a very passionate and very
17 articulate case for community television.
18 361 I'm curious, how long have you been
19 in existence as an entity?
20 362 MS SLEEMAN: As CMES?
21 363 THE CHAIRPERSON: Or the independent
22 community channel.
23 364 MS SLEEMAN: They were incorporated
24 in February 1997, wasn't it? It's '98 now.
25 365 MR. WARD: The incorporation date for
1 CMES was April 30th, 1997. The office was formed
2 February 18th, 1996, when Rogers shut down the office
3 and the volunteers formed it.
4 366 MS SLEEMAN: Right.
5 367 THE CHAIRPERSON: So slightly over a
6 year, a year and a bit.
7 368 MR. WARD: Year and a bit.
8 369 THE CHAIRPERSON: And how are you
9 funded at this point? Where have you received your
10 funding or how have you received your funding, if any?
11 370 MS SLEEMAN: Rick can answer. He's
12 the treasurer.
13 371 MR. WARD: We have projects that
14 members do. Rogers paid the rent on the office through
15 to February of this year. We have rented a space on
16 Hastings Street, 1650 East Hastings, for six months
17 with a $10,000 Rogers grant. We don't expect that to
18 be renewed. We expect to net 10,000 for the office
19 from United Native Nations training series. That
20 should give us another six months. We have a project
21 coming up after that where again we hope to net $7,000.
22 That will give us another six months. So we are going
23 with small amounts but we are making them stretch.
24 372 THE CHAIRPERSON: Do you get paid for
25 any of your programming? Do you get any financial
2 373 MR. WARD: No.
3 374 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, again, I
4 thank you very much for coming here today, all of you.
5 Thank you.
6 375 THE SECRETARY: I would like to
7 invite Sadie Kuehn to make her presentation next,
10 376 MS KUEHN: I'm going to respond. I'm
11 going to talk about the matter of diversity but I
12 personally don't think that one can talk about
13 diversity and the CRTC policy on it without actually
14 talking about it in its broadest terms, so that's my
15 intent. I will talk about it in the context of the
16 cultural diversity that exists within Canadian society
17 and also touch on the matter of gender, if one can
18 touch on it -- that's a pun -- and also to talk about
19 it, as I said, in the broadest terms, so to also talk
20 about sexual orientation.
21 377 I think that you have a document
22 before you. I am here representing the Affiliations of
23 Multicultural Societies and Service Agencies. I am the
24 chairperson of the policy research and interracism
25 committee for that organization.
1 378 AMSSA is a non-profit, non-protestant
2 coalition of 75 organizations and groups throughout the
3 province of B.C. The key focus has been on immigration
4 services and other multicultural educational concerns.
5 Through education and liaison and research and special
6 projects, we promote multiculturalism and support
7 agencies working in this area in addressing the needs
8 of people who have lived here for a long time and
9 newcomers. We have also seen our work as really key in
10 working with First Nations people and linguistic
11 minorities in this community.
12 379 You had some questions that you
13 posed. At least the first notice that we got about
14 this meeting last week touched on four key areas. You
15 wondered how important it was for Canadian television
16 programming. How important it was to us was one of the
17 questions. Do we agree that Canadian television
18 programming should reflect our views and our values as
19 Canadians? Do we think it does? What type of Canadian
20 programming interests us?
21 380 We responded to those four areas and
22 I'm here to say that, in our view, Canadian programming
23 in Canadian television for networking and making links
24 across this country, we perceive as being really,
25 really key. We are clear that the values that we share
1 as Canadians are the key values that are really
2 important to all of us, and they are values that focus
3 on equality and fairness and equity.
4 381 We do not believe that the current
5 programming in Canada actually reflects either the CRTC
6 commitment to diversity or the stated goals and
7 commitments of Canadian society overall as a fair and
8 just society.
9 382 Some of the things that we think
10 would be key to bring about changes within the current
11 milieu is the image of the diversity of people who make
12 up Canada. In reading through the document that was
13 circulated by the CRTC, it talks about the more recent
14 diversity of Canada. I think, to me as a Canadian, it
15 concerns me as a Canadian who is a person of colour and
16 who is a woman. It concerns me that that misnomer
17 continues to be the case. I would like to mention to
18 the individuals who raised the question about the
19 changing diversity that there is no doubt that Canada
20 is seen to be more diverse at this point but certainly
21 in the early 1900's there was a higher percentage of
22 aboriginal people and other people of colour,
23 particularly in B.C., than there is today. And one of
24 the reasons that we have a perception that in fact
25 Canada is now more diverse now than it was is because
1 there are more people who are more visible in some key
2 areas. I think our experience has been that that
3 diversity is not necessarily reflected in a substantive
4 way within the telecommunications system and certainly
5 not on Canadian TV.
6 383 We believe that in fact there is a
7 need for greater diversity. We believe that in fact
8 until there is more diversity within the Canadian
9 television networks, that the issue of whether or not
10 people will watch Canadian programming is still an
11 issue. And I think that where we are at this point is
12 that a lot of people are not watching Canadian TV,
13 often not because of -- in our view it's because of a
14 lack of diversity.
15 384 There was a mention earlier on about
16 community television and the need to enhance what
17 exists and I think that, certainly in terms of AMSSA,
18 we support that notion. The issue of equity and
19 visibility, though, is really key. The number of
20 programs that currently are presented within the
21 Vancouver area that include First Nations people,
22 aboriginal people, is very limited with aboriginal
23 people producing the programs themselves and presenting
24 those programs. The number of programs that are
25 produced publicly or privately by other people from
1 diverse communities, both in front of the camera and
2 behind the camera, is also very limited.
3 385 We think that this is a pivotal time
4 for the CRTC in terms of looking at these issues. We
5 trust that in fact the CRTC will be committed to
6 putting in place the policies that are necessary and
7 enforcing the current policies to ensure that greater
8 diversity exists and it's not just a matter of
9 fulfilling an expectation to support our shared values
10 but it's also a way of maintaining and increasing the
11 number of people who actually view Canadian-produced
12 material and watch Canadian television.
13 386 We know that for women, regardless of
14 their cultural background, that it has been really
15 important for there to be more women involved in the
16 development, the production and the presentation of
17 programs. We also know that the number of women from
18 diverse communities who have a chance to participate in
19 those areas, even with Studio D and other resources,
20 has still been very limited.
21 387 Again, the expectation that we have
22 is that the CRTC will provide the support in terms of
23 policy, in the changes in policy to support greater
24 inclusion of diverse communities across the board, and
25 that is diversity in terms of cultural diversity.
1 388 It is also the case in terms of the
2 diversity in terms of gender and in terms of sexual
3 orientation. I didn't go into that area very much but
4 the realty is that we know that still there are very
5 few resources and very few programs that are developed
6 in Canada that actually look at a cross-section of
7 individuals, and sexual orientation is one of the areas
8 that continually winds up being left out.
9 389 Thank you for your time.
10 390 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
11 391 Commissioner Wylie?
12 392 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: Thank you, Ms
13 Kuehn. I'm not sure what exactly it is you take
14 offence about in the document. Is it the sentence that
15 Canadian society is becoming increasingly culturally
17 393 MS KUEHN: I'm not taking great
18 offence to it. All I'm saying is that I think that
19 it's something that's stated often, that it's becoming
20 more diverse. I guess my statement is that
21 historically Canada has been diverse. The question is
22 whether or not that diversity has been represented
23 within our institutions, and television and
24 telecommunications is one of those areas that that
25 diversity has not been represented.
1 394 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: Yes. I think
2 you could also take it positively, that if it is more
3 culturally diverse, the discrepancy between the reality
4 of the diversity and its reflection on TV is all the
5 more -- it's all the more necessary to address it, I
6 suppose, is probably what is intended. If you look at
7 the large cities, the discrepancy between the
8 reflection and the reality makes it an even more
9 pressing matter to address.
10 395 MS KUEHN: I guess one of the things
11 for me is, as a Canadian, and as someone who has lived
12 in many parts of this province, as a person who looks
13 visibly different from the majority -- and I share that
14 experience with, I think, a sizable number of people,
15 including aboriginal people -- that the reality for me,
16 having lived all over B.C. for the last 30 years, is
17 that, again, that experience is not a new experience.
18 And it's not in urban centres; it was outside of urban
19 centres and it was in areas where there was community
20 television, places like Kitimat and places like
21 Kamloops, B.C. and places like Midway, B.C.
22 396 The reality for us, though, is that
23 it wasn't deemed to be reasonable or necessary for --
24 certainly not for aboriginal communities to have access
25 to television production or to be a part of that whole
1 process, and it also wasn't a possibility for people
2 from a diverse community to also have that access.
3 397 I think one of the things that is
4 also really key around this is that often when one
5 talks about the presence of people from diverse
6 backgrounds and aboriginal people, it gets modulized as
7 putting forward the impression that it's really a
8 need -- and you are speaking from your own particular
9 biases -- than it being something that is really for
10 the good of the whole community. The reality, I guess
11 for me again, is that having diverse representation
12 throughout the medium of television and communication
13 and telecommunication generally would be a great asset
14 to not just people from diverse -- well, all of us are
15 from diverse backgrounds. It would be of benefit to
16 all of us to have that.
17 398 And I think it would in terms of
18 marketing -- I didn't want to necessarily go that
19 route, but certainly in terms of a world or
20 international economic agenda, it would make sense for
21 us to have television that is much more culturally
22 diverse than what exists now. It seems to me that it
23 would put us in a really good place, position us well
24 to be able to sell more of our programs around the
25 world. We have the resources to be able to do that.
1 We aren't capitalizing on those resources to actually
2 make us much more competitive.
3 399 Canadians represent almost every
4 cultural group in the world. If we were able or
5 committed to integrating that into our
6 telecommunications systems, our TV and radio and our
7 press generally, again, I think that our ability to
8 outreach and to be able to position ourselves well to
9 capitalize on international, in creating a greater
10 international presence, I think would be something that
11 would be reasonable, but again you need to have two
12 things, it seems to me, to be able to do that. We need
13 to have the vision and we also need to have a
14 commitment to taking it on.
15 400 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: Thank you, Ms
17 401 Thank you, Madam Chairman.
18 402 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
20 403 MS KUEHN: You are welcome.
21 404 THE SECRETARY: I would like to
22 invite Steve Richards to make his presentation now.
23 He's representing Crimestoppers.
25 405 MR. RICHARDS: My name is Steve
1 Richards. I'm a director and officer of Crimestoppers
2 of Greater Vancouver.
3 406 Crimestoppers is a community-based,
4 non-profit society which is funded by concerned
5 citizens and corporations in the community. Basically
6 what Crimestoppers does is it publicizes crimes through
7 the use of the media, which includes television and
8 radio. Generally what happens is its citizens phone in
9 on a toll-free tips line and anonymously provide
10 information which is then forwarded to the appropriate
11 police authorities.
12 407 Basically Crimestoppers for Vancouver
13 is a critical community policing intiative,
14 particularly in Vancouver, where we experience a high
15 level of property crime. Currently this year, just to
16 give you some overview of the society's effectiveness,
17 is that this year recovered property, stolen property
18 and drug seizures exceeded $100 million in the
20 408 Now, what has this got to do with
21 your mandate or the mandate of the CRTC? Well, we have
22 a partnership or a major partnership with Global
23 Television whereby they provide us with approximately
24 two and a half million dollars a year of free services
25 and that represents air time, free access to their
1 production facilities. Without Global's involvement we
2 could not do what we do. It would be impossible for
3 us. In fact, I would say that Crimestoppers' profile
4 in the Vancouver community, in the Greater Vancouver
5 community, is probably solely as a result of the help
6 that we get and assistance we get from Global.
7 409 Because of this profile issue, if for
8 some reason Global was unable, for one reason or
9 another, to provide us with their support and
10 assistance, we would have to severely curtail our
11 ability to provide community-based policing services.
12 We are anxious that the CRTC, through its current
13 policy review mandate, does not adversely impact
14 Crimestoppers by changing Global's programming mandate
15 and we would strongly endorse any -- if there's any
16 review process, we would strongly endorse the status
17 quo with respect to Global simply because they have
18 been our partner for eight or nine years now. The
19 partnership has worked, it's been highly successful.
20 410 The Crimestoppers program in Greater
21 Vancouver has won national and international awards for
22 its effectiveness and it can only do that when it has
23 an active and effective partner on the
24 telecommunications side.
25 411 We would note that it's in the
1 interest of the community that Global remain
2 financially secure so they can continue to make the
3 huge contributions that they do to the local community
4 and to issues such as Crimestoppers.
5 412 That basically concludes my comments.
6 413 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Is this
7 partnership with Global a national partnership or a
8 local partnership?
9 414 MR. RICHARDS: It's a local
11 415 THE CHAIRPERSON: Do you know if the
12 other chapters have a similar arrangement? I'm just
13 curious really.
14 416 MR. RICHARDS: Well, Crimestoppers is
15 an international organization and generally what local
16 community groups do is they form a partnership with a
17 local television corporation, which then hopefully can
18 assist it in getting its message out, and that means
19 that Global is certainly our partner in Vancouver but I
20 couldn't tell you who, say for example, the Montreal
21 group use or the Toronto group use.
22 417 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
23 much. I appreciate you coming here today.
24 418 THE SECRETARY: Our next presenter is
25 Patrick Zulinov.
2 419 MR. ZULINOV: Ladies and gentlemen,
3 thanks for having me here and allowing me to speak. I
4 hope everyone is having an all right day.
5 420 With all the differences between
6 everybody in this room, I think there's one thing that
7 everyone has in common here and it's the appreciation
8 that most of us can have for a good piece of music,
9 whether it's to change your mood or make you a little
10 happier or for whatever reason. There is usually a
11 song in everyone's life that seems to make you feel a
12 little bitter.
13 421 I would like to speak today on the
14 importance of the coverage and supporting the arts in
15 Canada and the music and not just music but theatre and
16 every kind of art really.
17 422 There's a lot of prospective artists
18 that need the support of television. They are
19 supported through radio in a large way, but having come
20 to this city a few years ago, I was a little confused
21 in my record company position that I had a real hard
22 time getting local media, television in particular, to
23 cover quality Canadian artists. I'm not saying every
24 artist out of Canada is deserving of a lot of coverage
25 on TV. Some are with denres that don't necessarily
1 have large audiences, be it heavy metal or something to
2 that effect that may not appeal to the general
3 community, but it really confused me that there was a
4 real problem getting a little bit of publicity for a
5 Canadian artist that was worthwhile and people may want
6 to know about.
7 423 And Canadian music is a real hot item
8 right now. I'm not sure if everyone knows that around
9 the world. We have one of the most fabulous singers in
10 the world from Canada, Celine Dion, and it's people
11 like this and others -- we have Amanda Marshall,
12 Chantal Kreviazuk -- there's a lot of artists, even
13 locally, Sarah McLachlan and Tara McLean -- that are
14 making big waves around the world right now and really
15 showing the world what Canada can do arts- wise and the
16 kind of music that can come out of this culture that we
17 have here.
18 424 Opportunities should be readily
19 available for these types of artists to show even
20 people within our country what we have here. Radio,
21 again, is one aspect of things but in the past three
22 years I was a little confused as to why there was not a
23 focus on culture, music in this city. It was fortunate
24 that there are some programs through community
25 television that focus on music and lifestyle and that
1 sort of thing. There was a couple shows that are put
2 together by youth, for youth, that show what there is
3 available and what kids are into and pass on these
4 artists and their music to other kids that may be
6 425 We were fortunate about a year ago
7 that Baton had VTV come into town here and they have
8 been amazingly supportive in the way of an avenue for
9 artists and for upcoming bands and singers that want or
10 need this exposure. There's just a wealth of these
11 people that are not exposed to the general public. And
12 they were wonderful enough to have a big focus in their
13 news segment that provided information on what was
14 going on in town and some of the new artists that
15 people could enjoy that are coming to Vancouver or
16 maybe releasing albums or just becoming available.
17 426 Also a national program was one that
18 they provided to showcase artists that were in town and
19 given the opportunity again to show this country what
20 we do have here. They also were good enough to
21 contribute funds for independent programs which are
22 going to be broadcast in the next while to again show a
23 couple artists in the Canadian musical world that
24 really do warrant a good amount of exposure.
25 427 The only reason I'm here really -- I
1 don't want to drag this on or go on about this by any
2 means but I just want to make sure that stations give
3 this opportunity to the arts. I mean not just music
4 but the arts in general, theatre or what have you. If
5 one station can effectively present the arts and
6 cultures so well to this city, why can't they all? It
7 was a frustration for quite a while and it's getting a
8 little better but I'm not sure exactly what actions can
9 be taken by the CRTC but I just think it seems so
10 simple for one station to do it; why is it such a
11 difficulty for them all?
12 428 I was fortunate enough recently to
13 take a bit of a world trip, extended amount of time
14 off, and I thought it was amazing and I took extreme
15 pride in the way the rest of the world sees Canada and
16 everyone seems to love Canada around this world, with
17 the exception sometimes of Quebec, I guess, but it just
18 gave me extreme pride and I would just like to see this
19 sort of avenue become more available for people of a
20 creative nature when it comes down to it.
21 429 Mr. Bear, who spoke earlier, talked
22 about story telling, passing on what we have in the
23 culture to coming generations, and I think that's very
24 much the same sort of thing that can be spoken about
25 with songs, stories and all creative things that make
1 this beautiful country of ours distinctive and can pass
2 on things. A song can live a hundred years after we
3 are all dust. You can still sing a song and if it's a
4 Canadian song and people around the world are singing
5 it, I think we can take a lot of pride in that.
6 430 So that's all I have to say. Thanks
7 for your time.
8 431 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
10 432 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: Mr. Zulinov, I
11 noticed Mr. Messenger smiling at your good news story.
12 433 MR. ZULINOV: Yeah. I will support
13 them. They have been wonderful to the community. I
14 can't say I speak for all record companies. I think I
15 do, as most of my friends or my colleagues are at other
16 record companies, and it may seem a little
17 self-serving; we do want this exposure. It is to, in
18 the end, sell our artists and to publicize our artists
19 and market them but, aside from that whole employment
20 aspect of mine, I do think that it is very important to
21 pass on music.
22 434 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: Thank you, Mr.
23 Zulinov, and now Mr. Messenger will have to continue
24 supporting your endeavours. Thank you for coming.
25 435 THE SECRETARY: I would like to
1 invite Mr. Amir Gillni to make his presentation.
3 436 MR. GILLNI: I apologize for this
4 indulgence but I came late to this meeting. Would you
5 kindly introduce me, who is sitting at the head table.
6 437 THE CHAIRPERSON: I'm sorry. I am
7 Cindy Grauer, Commissioner for B.C., Yukon, and I'm
8 chairing this meeting, and this is my colleague,
9 Commissioner Andrée Wylie.
10 438 MR. GILLNI: Your Excellencies --
11 probably that's the right phrase.
12 --- Laughter/Rires
13 439 THE CHAIRPERSON: I'm "Your Majesty."
14 --- Laughter/Rires
15 440 MR. GILLNI: The only shortcoming is
16 whether they will be allowed to put the picture on the
17 currency notes or not.
18 441 Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Amir
19 Gillani. I represent a group known as Horizon
20 Interfaith Council. It's a council of about 30
21 religious faiths. In the words of Peter Cousins and
22 some of the senior CRTC officers last year that we
23 visited, they said, "We have yet to see a group of this
24 diversity, this religious variety, sit at a table and
25 co-exist for such a long time."
1 442 We are a group that has existed for
2 the past 20 years. 72 groups have passed and either
3 stayed on the council or lapsed. Our mandate is that
4 we air and co-ordinate programs for each of the faith
5 groups in metro Toronto, so I come a long way from the
6 east. I feel sad that you omitted Toronto from any
7 submissions now in your list. You have had in London,
8 Ontario and other places.
10 443 Nonetheless, we are tremendously
11 appreciative of what CRTC has been doing for the past
12 so many years, but of recent we feel slightly
13 threatened. But before I do that, I would like to
14 explain to you the type of programs that our members
16 444 Our members produce programs directed
17 to their faith groups, to the neighbours, for the
18 neighbours, practical realities, no dramatics, no
19 fiction. They service to that community that impacts
20 values. We probably have volunteers that have been
21 servicing for the last 20 years, sometimes devoting 10,
22 15, 18 hours a week.
23 445 Rogers Cable, Shaw Cable, ground
24 cable and all the cables that existed once upon a time
25 were obliged to give us time to produce our programs
1 because of your patronage, your vision, your
2 leadership. Of recent that has been dwindling.
3 446 I'm highly appreciative -- and I
4 would like this officially minuted, probably -- that
5 Rogers Cable has maintained its contribution as far as
6 the production of the programs is concerned, but where
7 we used to have 20 hours of production, it is reduced
8 to a half hour. They do not have the resources. They
9 do not have the manpower. They do not have the
10 facility. That's what they say, and we have seen them
11 dwindling from nine studios two studios.
12 447 I concur every word that you put in
13 that particular direction and to address one of the
14 responses that you made, Madam, Rogers Cable is aware
15 of what we are doing, and highly appreciated, but as
16 long as the amendment was there, conditioning everbody
17 that they had to provide community services, the doors
18 were wide open. Lately we feel slowly we are being
19 removed from one channel to the other. Rogers has
20 maintained us.
21 448 I am appealing to CRTC today in the
22 name of those 30 faith groups that probably represent
23 the most diversified groups as far as race is
24 concerned, as far as ethnic groups are concerned.
25 According to the statistics of 1990, almost a quarter
1 million people immigrate to Canada. These 30 faith
2 groups provide enormous services to teach them about a
3 Canadian style of living within their value parameters.
4 449 We do not have the funding
5 appropriate. Yet funds are available for Canadian
6 content type of productions in millions of dollars. We
7 do not know where to look for if there is any.
8 450 I was very happy you did mention the
9 name of an certain agency. It was so fast, I couldn't
10 note it. But I wish we could go and meet somewhere,
11 some funding to keep us going, administrating our
13 451 In a recent 20th anniversary banquet
14 celebration we had messages from the Prime Minister,
15 from Sheila Copps, from so many dignitaries, saying
16 that we were a very unique group. In return, we
17 responded, "Yes, we have got your message. Now, take
18 our messages that we can represent Canada at Bosnia or
19 anywhere with their religious ethnic problems.
20 452 In the light of what we serve and
21 give to the Canadian public or the specific public that
22 we are servicing, we look for a vision from CRTC to
23 give us protection, to give us leadership, to give us
24 some sort of benefit that we can look upon so that we
25 are not diminished completely as the corporate
1 interests get more and more stronger.
2 453 We will be presenting before the end
3 of the month a proper document. I apologize to you.
4 It's been at the last minute that I was informed by my
5 council and I was coincidentally busy, so I made my
6 presence felt today but we will be presenting a proper
7 document and we will look for your advice and guidance
8 into what productions we can do. But if your documents
9 and your regulations do not stipulate any official
10 protection, the corporate public and the sector will
11 probably ignore us.
12 454 Thank you very much.
13 455 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr.
14 Gillni. I have a couple of questions. I, first of
15 all, would like to point out, with respect to your
16 request that something be minuted, all of this will
17 form part of the public record. It's all in the public
18 record, this proceeding.
19 456 With respect to community
20 programming, I just want to make sure I understand.
21 What exactly was the relationship of your organization
22 with the community channel with respect to community
23 access? I'm assuming it was a part of community access
24 programming. Is that it?
25 457 MR. GILLNI: Yes.
1 458 THE CHAIRPERSON: Can you just give
2 me a little history of what it was and what it now is?
3 I'm a little confused about how big a role this played
4 in your organization because of the funding issues you
6 459 MR. GILLNI: Yes. Once upon a time
7 we used to have half an hour of prime time from Monday
8 to Saturday to air our programs. We had facilities
9 available to us from those cable companies to produce
10 our programs and the Horizon Interfaith Council
11 co-ordinated and sat with the other members of the
12 council to create and review and schedule all the
13 programs. We were given those slots as a part of
14 community programming. Then we were diminished to
15 about an hour or two hours on a Sunday day and no more
16 production times were available.
17 460 At this time we feel so frightened
18 because editing time is not available as well. Our
19 programs are not that quality programs as they were
20 once upon a time but at this time also we aspire that
21 we would be able to continue servicing whatever the
22 needs of our communities are by way of those religious
23 inspirational talks that each of the faith groups does
24 give on the cable network.
25 461 THE CHAIRPERSON: So these were done
1 in various communities throughout Canada but you
2 co-ordinated the --
3 462 MR. GILLNI: No, we were strictly
4 metro Toronto.
5 463 THE CHAIRPERSON: Oh, you were
6 strictly metro Toronto. I see.
7 464 MR. GILLNI: Recently Rogers Cable
8 has given us an open window where they would air our
9 programs that they thought were good enough for our
10 Canadian public, that they would play them in their
11 other locations as well.
12 465 THE CHAIRPERSON: I see. Well, thank
13 you very much for taking the opportunity to be here.
14 We'll look forward to getting your submission.
15 466 THE SECRETARY: I invite Michael
16 French to make his presentation now.
18 467 MR. FRENCH: Hello. I, too, just
19 heard of this meeting a short while ago, so, like many
20 of the people today, I came early and perhaps went out
21 quickly and scrawled some notes, so forgive me if
22 there's a scrawl or two I can't read.
23 468 I'm here today to talk about local
24 production and why the CRTC ought to remember that
25 often the greatest opportunity for young people in our
1 business does not come from network or group stations
2 with an appetite for highly-levered international deals
3 but perhaps the greatest opportunity comes from
4 resources that local stations can and do invest in
6 469 To best illustrate this point, I want
7 to tell you a story about a young Canadian producer and
8 comedian who in 1990 approached me to help him with an
9 idea he wanted to put on television. I have produced
10 many specials, documentaries, feature film, and over
11 1,000 hours of live variety, but comedy, I just didn't
12 have a track record. So it was with some trepidation
13 that I approached all the usual suspects on a national
15 470 The more I heard that my colleague
16 was just a little too odd and that we were right out of
17 our league, the more we dug in. All the while I kept
18 in touch with Don Brinton, Peter Viner, Jerry Noble,
19 Doug Hoover and Jack Tomik, who at that time were
20 connected to CKVU in Vancouver. And although they did
21 not have the money we needed to do the show in their
22 local budgets, they did spend hour upon hour upon hour
23 helping us figure out how we might pull it off.
24 471 After months of travelling, my Visa
25 card was at the limit and my friend and partner
1 wondered if we could ever pull it off in Canada. Jerry
2 Noble, who is now with Canwest in Australia, took me
3 into his office one day and said, "I'm not sure we
4 should be doing this but I have arranged for a mobile
5 to shoot your show. Then we can bring it back here and
6 we'll find some facilities to help you edit it. Now
7 get out of here and go down the hall to see Jack Tomik,
8 who will teach you a little bit about pulling off
9 something with sponsors and securing some cost
11 472 From Jack I went to Doug Hoover, who,
12 under the cover of darkness, managed to get the show
13 scheduled on Global.
14 473 Then it was Peter Viner, who smiled
15 and said, "Once you have all the pieces together, come
16 and see me and let's make sure the deal works and that
17 you don't go broke."
18 474 And finally there was Don Brinton,
19 who said, "Congratulations. Now, who is this comedian
20 and is he funny and will anybody watch?"
21 475 Well, Jim Carrey was funny and people
22 did watch, and they watched and they watched over and
23 over again.
24 476 Armed with this very small production
25 commitment and a very large intellectual commitment
1 from CKVU, Jim and I were able to bring in an American
2 broadcaster, who fought us from the first day to the
3 last, saying, "You guys have no idea what you're doing
4 and we can't believe a local station would ever be
6 477 The point here, I trust, is quite
7 straightforward. All of this only happened because a
8 local station took a chance with its production
9 facilities but, more importantly, with its intellectual
10 resources. They stood by us with Jim Carrey and they
11 stand by us today as we complete our 51st national
12 prime time special in the last 10 years.
13 478 All of these programs were and are
14 local specials that we have managed somehow to make on
15 a national prime time basis. It is no easier today
16 than it was when Jim Carrey and I produced our first
17 special. In fact, it is no easier today than it was 25
18 years ago, when I produced my first show. As a
19 producer, I am still at risk with everything I do. I
20 still push my Visa and my nerves to the limit when I
21 chase a dream but knowing that I have a local station
22 in each market helps me make it through. Whether or
23 not they know they are my partners, they are.
24 479 Last summer while shooting a
25 documentary in Saskatchewan, I called upon Global in
1 Saskatoon for help, not as Global but as an independent
2 station whose manager believed in what we were doing.
3 In Calgary, in Edmonton, in Montreal, in Newfoundland
4 local broadcasters have always been there for us,
5 taking our shows, promoting them, and always taking a
6 chance in prime time with something that was Canadian.
7 480 The faces change at local stations
8 and, as Peter, Jerry, Doug and Don have moved on, Jim
9 Rusnak, Don Wright, Janice Talbot, Debbie Miliette and
10 always Jack Tomik are there, willing to help us shape
11 and direct an idea.
12 481 It is not always just about money.
13 Local stations don't have the money to mount national
14 shows. It is instead about the commitment of the
15 people who find a way to bring our show to air.
16 482 Local stations and local programming
17 are at the very heart of everything we do and as the
18 world changes, pushing us to other opportunities and
19 far-away places, it is more important than ever before
20 that a healthy local broadcaster be allowed to exist
21 and, indeed, to flourish because, you see, it is likely
22 that tomorrow or the next day a new producer with a
23 crazy idea will be searching madly for help and going
24 to Toronto or New York or Los Angeles. Without a local
25 broadcaster it makes chasing your dreams and living in
1 the west almost impossible.
2 483 Thank you.
3 484 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. I just
4 would like to clarify a bit. Are you suggesting there
5 are things we can do to improve and strengthen the
6 opportunities for local producers or are you saying the
7 status quo is working? Do you have any suggestions for
8 us with respect to --
9 485 MR. FRENCH: I don't have any
10 suggestions for you at all. I guess I can just best
11 speak from our experience, which would indicate that
12 were there not a strong local station here and strong
13 local stations in other places, that the CKVU's and the
14 CFCN's in Calgary and the CFRN's in Edmonton and the
15 CFCF's in Montreal couldn't and wouldn't be there for
16 us and whether they are there because of their good
17 heart or because it is mandated that they ought to be
18 or a combination thereof, regardless of the reason why,
19 in many cases for many people they have been there.
20 486 So I guess it is my experience that
21 without them we would certainly have never been able to
22 have done what we have done and, more importantly, now
23 that we have been kick started a bit and are off and
24 running, you sort of look over your shoulder and see
25 all the bright young people whose ideas are as good or
1 better than yours and you wonder where they are going
2 to go. So without a local station to be able to listen
3 to those ideas and provide some money and a lot of
4 intellectual help, I'm just not sure how they can make
6 487 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thanks very much.
7 488 THE SECRETARY: I would like to
8 invite Doris Rankin to present now, please.
10 489 MS RANKIN: Thank you and good
12 490 It's widely accepted that the
13 influence of media on the populous is overwhelming and
14 powerful and I fully endorse Amy Pollen's presentation
15 and I believe that there exists in the CRTC
16 discrimination and prejudice in granting radio and TV
17 licenses, as evidenced by giving the Playboy Channel a
18 license and refusing Mother Angelica and Her Eternal
19 Word TV not a license, and she certainly has shown that
20 she's a popular person and has lots of would-be viewers
21 in this part of the world.
22 491 I would like to ask the Commission
23 why you give licenses to people and companies who
24 create programs which consistently insult and offend
25 the majority of Canadian citizens. I understand from
1 the last census that Canadians are overwhelmingly
2 believing Christian people. Our country was founded on
3 the Judaeo-Christian values and principles and yet day
4 and night we are treated to radio and TV programs which
5 portray behaviours and use language that is completely
6 contrary to Christian values. I find this very
7 insulting. Because the media shapes our values, I call
8 this propaganda and media manipulation. I object
9 furiously to daily more evidence that a government
10 body, funded by our hard-earned tax dollars, are
11 allowing this. I don't think it's fair or just or
12 impartial nor does it reflect Canadian values.
13 492 Thank you.
14 493 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much
15 for coming here today. We don't have any questions.
16 494 THE SECRETARY: Our next presenter is
17 Clive Court.
19 495 MR. COURT: Thank you very much.
20 Because of the time, I think what I'll do is just cut
21 to my recommendations. I really liked the
22 presentations of Mr. Zulinov and Mr. French.
23 496 My concern is essentially: Do we
24 give licenses to people who dislike working with
25 Canadian entertainers? I'm not sure exactly how many
1 channels we have but when I switch across them I see
2 actually very few Canadian entertainers, and it's a
3 surprise to some Canadians when they travel abroad to
4 find out that we are now better known for our circus
5 than we are for our hockey players. I'm referring here
6 to the quality of presentation that's being produced by
7 our visual entertainers. I think, although some people
8 may feel that we haven't done that much for our musical
9 entertainers, if you think they are hard done by, think
10 about all our visual entertainers, the people who are
12 497 Canada has three world champion
13 magicians. Can anyone here name me one? One in
14 particular I was promoting last year -- in fact, I was
15 promoting three on an American variety show called "The
16 World's Greatest Magic Tour," and I found that the
17 station that was carrying it in Ontario did not do any
18 promotion for the Canadian magicians. I found that
19 quite interesting. It actually got -- we managed to
20 get a rating for it that put it at the fifth most
21 watched show of the week.
22 498 So although a lot of programmers will
23 say there's not that much interest in that particular
24 area, there is. In fact, the young people who grew up
25 since 1970 grew up with the work of Jim Henson, George
1 Lucas, David Copperfield, Doug Henning and a number of
2 other very strong visual entertainers, and I would like
3 to see something that would help us develop those
4 entertainers. One in particular I was mentioning I
5 promoted last year. Her name is Juliana Chen. She's a
6 resident of Vancouver. She won the World Championship
7 in Dresden in Germany last July. Immediately following
8 that she was on a U.S. television special. She was on
9 a British TV special and she was on a Japanese TV
10 special. This spring she has been on TV shows in
11 Chile, Argentina and Austria. Last week she was on a
12 TV special in Beijing. Coming up in the fall, she's
13 going to be on specials in Germany and Monte Carlo.
14 499 And all that I say, where are we in
15 Canada? It's not just one, it's quite a number of them
16 that we don't see and we don't know they are there.
17 500 The musical groups and singers can
18 rely to some extent on radio but it's really tough to
19 put a magician on a radio, but I'm not just concerned
20 with the magicians. I'm concerned with the puppeteers,
21 the impressionists, the ventriloquists, the dancers.
22 Boy, was dancing missing until recently, a very
23 effective form of dynamic movement on television, which
24 I think we can see from the ratings that people really
25 enjoy. The trouble is it's expensive to train and
1 rehearse dancers for television.
2 501 In fact, if you look at the kind of
3 entertainment we have when we have what I would call
4 variety entertainers, you will see that basically they
5 stand by microphones and the reason for that is, of
6 course, you don't have to spend too much in rehearsal
7 or production values. But that gets a little boring.
8 502 So let me cut to what my
9 recommendations are in terms of answering the questions
10 that were put forward by the CRTC in terms of how can
11 we produce better programs, how can we get private
12 stations to show them, how can we get people to watch
13 them and how can we get them exported around the world.
14 503 These are essentially -- the answers
15 to these can be found in the way we started
16 broadcasting initially. We gave licenses and, in my
17 opinion, to people who didn't like working with
18 Canadian entertainers. The original philosophy, I
19 think emphasized by the late John Bassett, was:
20 Canadians will turn to their own channels for news and
21 current affairs and for their entertainment they can
22 watch American channels, not quite in those words but
23 that was some of the philosophy.
24 504 One of the things I have been
25 concerned about is Telefilm, which seems to be a little
1 bit of a mess this year. Originally we had a variety
2 category and that has been very much abused. For over
3 15 years the variety category has not been used that
4 well to develop Canadian entertainers. I would
5 recommend that it needs a complete overhaul in terms of
6 objectives, values and procedures.
7 505 I would also like to offer a very
8 relatively simple solution, so simple maybe that it
9 could work. In future when the CRTC issues or renews a
10 TV license, I would like to recommend that the Chair or
11 president must make a public commitment, really like an
12 oath of office, to broadcast Canadian programming from
13 5:00 p.m. to midnight or whatever is the particular
14 requirement, or to surrender their license on demand.
15 They should be called upon to make the Canadian
16 commitment on Canada Day to a public audience and the
17 videotape of this commitment would be played once a day
18 on the station just prior to the playing of the
19 national anthem.
20 506 We want them to be really proud to be
21 a Canadian broadcast license holder and fully
22 accountable to the Canadian people and not just a
23 signature on a CRTC document.
24 507 The surrendered license can then be
25 awarded to another applicant who is prepared to make
1 and keep the Canadian commitment. If they want to run
2 American programs in prime time, Canadian broadcasters
3 can find a station in the United States just like
4 Rupert Murdoch, who was never really known for
5 producing much Australian programming.
6 508 If all the TV license holders are
7 broadcasting Canadian programs in prime time, they will
8 be obliged to produce more competitive and attractive
9 programs to appeal to Canadian viewers. And the most
10 cost-effective way to do this is by developing Canadian
11 entertainers in variety-style formats, which cost about
12 30 to 50 percent less than drama or situation comedy.
13 They will also learn to recruit some of those Canadian
14 performers, writers, directors now working in the
15 United States or Britain.
16 509 Finally, I would ask you to look
17 closely at the make-up of boards of directors for
18 stations and networks. I believe you will find
19 something missing, and that's people with a show
20 business background. I think it's time to insist that
21 boards include a few people who have had career
22 experience as performers, writers, directors or
23 producers in the television medium and not just
24 journalistic experience.
25 510 Thank you very much.
1 511 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very
2 much. You have given us quite a significant written
3 piece, which will be part of the public record. So I
4 thank you very much for being here.
5 512 MR. COURT: Thank you.
6 513 THE SECRETARY: Would Klodyne Rodney
7 make her presentation now, please.
9 514 MS RODNEY: I'm caught by surprise.
10 Thank you for your patience and endurance. I'll be
11 really fast. I flipped through the "Georgia Strait"
12 and found that you were holding consultations today and
13 I thought I cannot miss this opportunity to make sure
14 that my voice is heard.
15 515 My parents came here from Guiana,
16 South America back in the '60s and somebody said to
17 them in some immigration office, "Go to Alberta." I
18 don't know why. I was the product of their union, the
19 first person to be born outside of Guiana on either
20 side of their family in generations and generations,
21 and I'm really proud to be a Canadian.
22 516 One day I heard from a local cable
23 company that they were planning to put together a
24 program that was aimed at diversity. They were going
25 to have young hosts, they were going to be of all
1 colours, they were going to be of all political
2 stripes, of all religious backgrounds, of all sexual
3 orientations, and I couldn't resist the opportunity to
4 have my voice heard. My parents travelled a long way.
5 It's a voice that can't be squandered.
6 517 The initial impact was fantastic.
7 The hosts had lots and lots of influence over what was
8 going to be programmed, the audience were allowed to
9 call in and let the station know what they wanted to be
10 seen. It was a celebration of the community, it was
11 something that supported the community, and it was an
12 exploration of diversity. It was really exciting, and
13 during that entire process it meant that individuals
14 who had businesses or hobbies, that were artists of
15 whatever kind, had an opportunity to have their voices
16 heard within their community.
17 518 One day there was a review and some
18 muckymuck from high up said, "Well, we're not certain
19 that this is professional enough." They did a review
20 and they decided that it was non-conforming, that it
21 was too young, that it took too many risks, that it was
22 too outspoken and ultimately I think the decision was
23 that it wasn't banal enough.
24 519 So in the end what occurred was a
25 television program that was white, straight, and
1 religious right. There was no diversity. There was no
2 community, at least not the community that I lived in.
3 520 In addition to that, the station went
4 on to put ads on their station that talked about their
5 target reach being people between 40 and $60,000 a
6 year. And it scared me because that's not the
7 community I live in, and certainly if I look at Stats
8 Can, it says that 64 percent of people in 1996 made
9 $26,000 or less. That's not the community that I live
10 in that's 40,000 to 60,000, not at all.
11 521 The bottom line being that community
12 TV to a great extent is programmed and represents a
13 corporate large-scale social kind of view rather than a
14 view that is diverse and accurately representative of
15 community. That concerns me. And it extends not only
16 into the type of programming that is allowed to occur
17 but also into its prime time viewing.
18 522 As a person from another province,
19 I'm impressed when I do sit in my living room and I
20 surf the channels and I find programming that is so
21 diverse sometimes that it doesn't even include
22 subtitles. I love that. Perhaps that's something
23 that's unique to British Columbia. I suspect that it's
24 not but I find it exciting. I think it's bold and I
25 really, really like it.
1 523 As a black person, I'm distressed to
2 see the lack of representation of my face, whether
3 that's in a corporate or a community sense. If I want
4 to find myself, I have to surf the channels all the way
5 up to number 58, which is full of infomercials and
6 American stereotypes that mean nothing to my reality,
7 nothing to the Canada that I live in. I have to go in
8 search of American-based programming where there are
9 few representations outside of tokenism.
10 524 Unfortunately, this is a state that
11 extends also to Canadian productions and the CBC. It
12 surprises me and yet it doesn't. We live in a world
13 with a much more global focus and, as such, it means
14 that it requires a broad-based approach to what seems
15 to work. This means that our artists move. They move
16 southeast, they move southwest, they move to the coasts
17 of our cities and they work on American programming.
19 525 There is an old joke out there right
20 now that talks about how if O.J. Simpson really wanted
21 to remain anonymous, if he really didn't want to be
22 caught, he should have worked his way across the border
23 to Canada and worked in television.
24 526 We don't respect our idols, we don't
25 support our idols. This is not good, this will not
1 work and this cannot continue.
2 527 I wish I could say that this was a
3 state that existed only in television but it doesn't.
4 It also extends into radio and while our musicians take
5 the world by storm, our radio stations complain that
6 there isn't enough Canadian talent, that it isn't good
7 enough and if they program it, people will switch the
8 dial, and this also cannot be allowed to continue.
9 528 I don't know if you know what Hundred
10 Monkey Syndrome is but once upon a time a bunch of
11 scientists that were working on an island with some
12 monkeys one day noticed that one of the monkeys was
13 washing its coconut in the water to remove the sand.
14 Slowly this news spread throughout the community of
15 monkeys that were on this island. One day the
16 scientist was communicating with another scientist on
17 another island who pointed out to his colleague, "Hey,
18 I just noticed this week that all the colony of monkeys
19 on my island have begun washing their coconuts in
21 529 The idea here is that if an idea has
22 enough strength from its community, it can spread like
23 wildfire, and one only has to look at the environmental
24 movement to see this. If we support things at a
25 community level, it works, it spreads. We can do it,
1 and forums like this one prove that there is interest
2 and that it's something that should be addressed.
3 530 Thank you.
4 531 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, thank you
5 very much. I appreciate that you took the time to be
6 here today. Your comments, as well everybody else's,
7 will form part of the public record, so I very much
8 appreciate it. I don't have any questions of
10 532 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: Just one. The
11 programming that you were involved in producing, was
12 that for airing on the community channel?
13 533 MS RODNEY: Yes. It was part of the
14 station's community mandate. It was actually very
15 exciting because it was -- well, it was almost 24 hours
16 a day. It ran from 10:00 to midnight.
17 534 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: On the cable
19 535 MS RODNEY: Yes, and it was good
20 programming. As I said, unfortunately, they bowed to a
21 common denominator. They bowed to a corporate interest
22 and they bowed to something that wasn't community and
23 ultimately what that meant was that all the singers
24 that we brought on didn't get heard, the dancers that
25 we brought on didn't get heard, the young people that
1 were producing plays at the university level or the
2 college level, they didn't get to be interviewed, their
3 voices didn't get to be heard, the sculptors didn't get
4 a chance to have their works viewed, the visual artists
5 didn't get to talk about their gallery show any more.
6 536 The only way that we can continue to
7 support our artists so they are not going south -- I
8 don't know, Michael J. Fox is Canadian. Okay, I'm not
9 proud of William Shatner, but they are Canadians, they
10 are Canadians. I'm tired of them being appropriated by
11 America, and we need to have strong radio and
12 television and we need to start being proud of our
13 artists so we can do that.
14 537 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: Thank you, Ms
16 538 Thank you, Madam Chair.
17 539 THE SECRETARY: I would ask Kevin
18 Millsip to present next on behalf of the Council of
19 Canadians, Vancouver Westside Chapter.
21 540 MR. MILLSIP: Thank you. I have a
22 very brief statement by Jezrah Hearne, who is the Chair
23 of the Vancouver Westside Chapter of the Council of
24 Canadians. She could not be here this evening, so she
25 asked me to present it for her.
1 541 On behalf of the Westside Chapter of
2 the Council of Canadians, I would like to address the
3 upcoming CRTC review of Canadian television this fall.
4 I know that it would be the concern of this chapter
5 that the CRTC do everything it can to strengthen
6 Canadian content in Canadian television. At present
7 "cancon" is very weak in our nation and certainly not
8 salient enough to put in much of a choice for viewers
9 in the era of satellite transmission.
10 542 It might be a surprise to CRTC
11 regulators but there are many Canadians out there who
12 actually want more "cancon" to choose from. An
13 overview of the selection in prime time shows a
14 plethora of American programming, much of which has
15 nothing to commend itself, is repetitious, formulaic,
16 lacking in surprise and lacking depth. The main good
17 thing about Hollywood fare is its good production
19 543 By contrast, the Canadian programming
20 often offers depth of drama, originality, and equally
21 good production values. Some Canadian programming even
22 reveals its Canadian identity and gets away with it.
23 The only problem is that there is so little of it.
24 544 So the CRTC should be assuring that
25 more Canadian programming gets on the box and at a
1 timely occasion, i.e., in the prime time. This would
2 be programming in drama and news. The CRTC should be
3 recommending that the federal government should use
4 part of its bonus windfall for increasing funding to
5 CBC television. This is the morally correct thing to
6 do and the government should be told so. Broadcasters
7 should put in the extra effort to show Canadians to
8 themselves by transmitting news and information from
9 across the country into the news and information
10 venues. It might surprise you to know this but many
11 Canadians in one part of the country would like to know
12 about Canadians in other parts of the country but this
13 is not reflected very much at present. Please let it
14 be so.
15 545 "Thank you for your attention, Jezrah
17 546 I would just add a couple of comments
18 briefly on my own. I work with youth from across the
19 country. We travel across the country and live and
20 work in small groups together and small communities
21 throughout British Columbia and Yukon region. And
22 something that I have noticed working with them in the
23 past year and a half is that they all have a very
24 strong desire to learn more about Canada, this country
25 they call home, and more about each other and the small
1 places within Canada. They have an understanding that
2 they belong to a country with some very unique and
3 special societal arrangements but they don't really
4 know what those are. They have a vague idea that they
5 belong to a potentially dynamic and, more perhaps,
6 thoroughly beautiful country. They don't have a
7 thorough idea of how to be a part of a functioning and
8 healthy democratic society.
9 547 My brief thought would be that the
10 idea of what I heard you talking about earlier about
11 this community-based programming is something that they
12 are all hungry for. They know that what's being pushed
13 out by the Hollywood juggernaut is not doing them much
14 intellectual good. They want something that is
15 entertaining that would fulfill perhaps their minds and
16 their soles and they would really like it to come from
17 their own nation.
18 548 That is my brief and unprepared
19 thought, and I'll leave you now.
20 549 THE CHAIRPERSON: I wonder if you
21 could just elaborate a bit on or clarify, perhaps is
22 the better way to put it, your earlier comments with
23 respect to the diversity of news programming. I think
24 you talked about reflecting Canada to Canadians and
25 that there were inadequacies. Can you perhaps just --
1 550 MR. MILLSIP: Again, I must make some
2 assumptions about what Mrs. Hearne wanted to say. I
3 think that could come from a couple of areas of her --
4 I find myself, as a consumer of news, that the only
5 thorough news that I can get my hands upon that I
6 consider relatively untainted is perhaps on radio,
7 perhaps on CBC Radio, if it's not from a very small
8 publication, and I think what she may be talking about
9 is more thorough news programming, perhaps on a private
10 station, not just the CBC television station, that
11 covers issues more in depth than they are covered now.
12 551 This is an assumption of what Mrs.
13 Hearne might want to say.
14 552 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Thanks very
15 much. We appreciate it.
16 553 I think we are going to take a short
17 break -- 15 minutes. Be back here about 10 to 8:00.
18 --- Recessed at 1937/Suspension à 1937
19 --- Resumed at 2000/Reprise à 2000
20 554 THE CHAIRPERSON: When you are ready,
22 555 THE SECRETARY: Our next presenter
23 this evening is Hanson Lau.
24 556 THE CHAIRPERSON: Good evening.
2 557 MR. LAU: Commissioners, my name is
3 Hanson Lau. I have been a broadcaster for 25 years in
4 Vancouver, I live in West Vancouver, and I just want to
5 talk about three very simple points.
6 558 I read the brief and it's very
7 comprehensive and there are many issues at stake for
8 the future of Canadian television but tonight I just
9 want to touch on these three points, which I hope the
10 Commission will be concerned and take time to look into
12 559 The first point being the Internet.
13 Right now there's a school that says that the Internet
14 is here and it's not here, especially with regards to
15 the television. Technology is here to bring
16 conventional TV on to the Internet in the foreseeable
17 future. Many say this will happen in five, 10 years
18 time but I see it more in about three to five years, so
19 it's coming. The conventional TV as we know it now on
20 the box as separate from the Internet may be fused and
21 developed in a time frame faster than we think. I
22 think the CRTC should be ahead of them rather than
23 trying to catch up with them, the reason being the
24 Internet is a medium that's out of the regulation of
25 the CRTC for the time being and even internationally
1 there's no regulatory agency as such and when the
2 conventional television content goes on the Internet it
3 will just go world-wide.
4 560 The basic question: How do we
5 distinguish what is Canadian on the Internet? We worry
6 very much about the influence of the United States on
7 our conventional TV as we know it now, but with
8 Internet I think we would be just swamped.
9 561 The other thing is the structure to
10 encourage Canadian program productions. The way we
11 have it now is the television industry right now is a
12 highly-structured and regulated industry and we can ask
13 the television stations to have benefit packages, to
14 have programming budgets that address certain lack of
15 Canadian program production, but when it goes on the TV
16 how do we do that?
17 562 Those are the questions I want to
18 raise with the CRTC. I'm sure you are aware of that
19 and under this presentation I want to again
20 re-emphasize the technology going faster than our
22 563 The second point I want to make is
23 that Canada is faced with ever changing demographics.
24 Our population is changing, the composition is
25 changing. The future of Canadian TV must reflect this
1 reality in its programming and productions and not only
2 in specialty channels, as we see it now being shunted
3 into different channels, but in the mainstream
4 television stations as we look down again five, 10
5 years time. We feel that the mainstream television
6 should be taking bold steps to meet this challenge.
7 564 And point 3 -- I'll try to make it
8 very brief and to the point. A concrete example of a
9 mainstream television station taking on this challenge
10 is VTV and our own radio station, working to create a
11 sort of creative alliance. The alliance is executed by
12 encouraging viewers who may not be conversant in
13 English to watch Channel 9 news at 6:00, turn down the
14 sound volume and listen to radio AM1320. This way the
15 radio doesn't lose any audience and the television
16 station increases the viewers but then the content of
17 the newscast is brought directly to the ethnic
18 community, thereby bringing the two communities closely
19 together because we tend to do our own production with
20 an ethnic point of view and, by working with VTV, we
21 bring the two -- how do I put that -- the two
22 programming, the two worlds, into one.
23 565 Also, VTV has, since their launch,
24 taken steps to recruit ethic reporters and so forth,
25 which gives us a lot of encouragement, and I feel this
1 is going in the right direction and it may very well be
2 setting an example for other stations to follow.
3 566 That's all the three points.
4 567 THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner Wylie.
5 568 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: With regard to
6 your first point, I don't know if you are aware that
7 the Commission is also curious about the development of
8 new media and the Internet and it will be holding a
9 proceeding in the fall of this year, so we would love
10 to hear from you if you make contact with the Vancouver
11 office. I don't think an exact date has been chosen
12 yet but to see what role, if any, the Commission may
13 have or what is developing and what are the concerns
14 and to hear from interested parties about this
15 developing medium. So it would be a good opportunity
16 for you to expand.
17 569 MR. LAU: I definitely would like to
18 be kept informed and if you don't mind putting me on
19 the mailing list.
20 570 Also, I must compliment the CRTC on
21 this report card. It gives a new approach in bringing
22 the community to the CRTC.
23 571 COMMISSIONER WYLIE: Thank you very
24 much. Good news, we need. Thank you.
25 572 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr. Lau.
1 573 THE SECRETARY: I am now going to
2 read four names on to the record and if any of these
3 people are in the room, I would invite them to make a
4 presentation. I suspect they aren't but we'll read
5 them for the record in any event.
6 574 Gary Marcuse, Cindy Silver, Maruba
7 Carova and Gordon Simon.
8 575 No responses, Madam Chair.
9 576 The other question I would like to
10 ask is: Is there anyone in the room who has not made a
11 presentation and has decided they would like to make
13 577 I don't see anyone who wants to do
14 that, either.
15 578 THE CHAIRPERSON: Is there any reason
16 to believe that any of these people may be arriving?
17 They were certainly told the time and the place and --
18 579 THE SECRETARY: Right. These four
19 individuals knew the time and the place and we haven't
20 heard that they are not coming but we don't know.
21 580 THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, I think that
22 since we are finished and everyone is finished, that
23 this is probably as good an opportunity as any to wrap
24 up the evening's proceedings.
25 581 I would like to thank all of you for
1 being here today. I would like to thank, of course,
2 the CRTC staff from the regional office as well as
3 those that are here from Ottawa. My colleague,
4 Commissioner Wylie. To the transcriber and the
5 technician, thank you.
6 582 I would just like to say that this is
7 all going to be very helpful to have a full public
8 record from this Vancouver Town Hall to add to the
9 material for the hearing in September and I thank
10 everybody. Thank you.
11 --- Whereupon the hearing concluded at 2005/
12 L'audience se termine à 2005